October 20, 2021 • 25 mins
Susan Wojcicki, chief executive officer at Google’s YouTube, talks about leading the business through Covid, censorship, diversity and former President Donald Trump. She speaks to Bloomberg's Emily Chang on "Bloomberg Studio 1.0."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio
one point oh, a series where I speak with the
biggest influencers in technology and media. This is where we
have in depth conversations with the very people shaping the
future of innovation and business and hear their vision for
what comes next. Today we dive deep down the YouTube
rabbit hole with the CEO of the world's most popular
(00:20):
video network. Since the very first YouTube video was uploaded
sixteen years ago, YouTube has exploded to more than two
billion users in the farthest corners of the planet, now
raking in billions of dollars every year. It's evolved a
long way from cat videos to become a one click
journey to the center of the zeitgeist, pop culture and
(00:44):
kid culture, amplifying some of the brightest and sometimes darkest
traits in all of us. While YouTube has elevated a
generation of creators and educated and entertained generations of viewers,
it's fought misinformation, terrorism, racism, and violence many clicks along
the way. Lately, YouTube's biggest battles are focused on eliminating
(01:07):
COVID and vaccine misinformation and keeping the platform safe for
kids and teens. On this edition of the Bloomberg Studio
One Point podcast, will rewind to talk about where YouTube
has been and fast forward to where it's going next,
with one of the longest tenured employees and women at
Google and the CEO of YouTube, Susan wijet Ski. Susan,
(01:32):
it's so great to talk to you again. Thank you
for having me. It's been five years since we last
talked on camera, and we have a new president, we
are weathering a pandemic. The most watch video on YouTube
is baby Shark, Baby Shark, So a lot has changed since.
How do you feel about YouTube? Ver? I feel good
(01:57):
about it. Um, It's definitely been a while, and in technology,
things moved so quickly, so a lot of things have
changed since. And UM, I mean overall, I've been really
pleased that we have continued to grow and grow our
ecosystem of creators. UM. We've invested a lot in responsibility
and UM that's been a really big focus for us.
(02:19):
UM And you know, with weather through a pandemic and
a lot of hard challenges. But overall, I'm feeling really good.
You've been at Google for twenty plus years, going all
the way back to Larry AND's are gay in the garage.
You've been the CEO of YouTube for seven plus years.
How has your job changed in that time since I
joined being the CEO of YouTube? I would say one
(02:42):
of the biggest things that has changed certainly has just
been maybe the recognition of the importance of digital video.
So when I first joined, actually a lot of people
would say, oh, like, why did you join um UM.
I was running ads beforehand and that was That's been
the in way Google generates revenue, and so a lot
(03:02):
of people said, like, why did you leave that and
go to YouTube? But I always believed in digital video
and I believe that now we see that the world
also believes. We've seen a lot of adoption of digital
video and the benefits that that can have. You've championed
this diversification strategy at YouTube since you started. What's working
and what's not working well. Our main way of generating
(03:23):
revenue is from advertising, um, but we also have really
grown our subscription revenue, and um that has been really
really important from many different reasons. So that has enabled
our users to have experience where they can have music,
YouTube music and premium. We just announced the fifty million
subscribers that we were really excited about UM. But we
(03:44):
also see other ways that our creators generate revenue. So
our creators, for example, generate revenue with channel subscriptions, they
may sell merchandise. UM. We also have things like UM
digital goods, so like UM super chat, um, super Thanks,
and so we've basically diversified the number of ways that
that our ecosystem is generating revenue. The original tagline for
(04:08):
YouTube was broadcast yourself, and that concept has exploded. We
have ordinary people in the spotlight. When they grow up,
they want to be an influencer, they want to be
a YouTube star or a YouTube creator. What do you
see as the future of the creator economy. I see
a lot of possibility with the creator economy, and because
(04:29):
I see that many people have a lot of interest
and they have a lot to offer, and beforehand they
went up been able to have shared shared that with
the world. And so there's so many people depending upon
what their talent or their interest is, whether it's a
sport or cooking or gaming or hairstyles, that people have
come out and really been able to share that and
(04:50):
create a lot of jobs. UM. So we actually see
like our we actually saw thirty percent increase in the
number of creators that are generating UM six figure income
out of YouTube and in the last year. And so
that's just an example of how the creator economy is
continuing to grow well. And for years YouTube was the
only company that actually paid creators, but now a lot
(05:12):
of companies are paying creators, Facebook and Instagram, snap TikTok.
How do you see that competition playing out? Who wins well?
It is a competitive landscape and in general, competition is good.
It makes everyone work harder and that's good. Um. I mean,
we look at creators and we say they're going to
(05:34):
come to us if we do the best job. And
creators come to us looking basically for fame and fortune,
like how can I have a skill or I have
a talent um something I want to share with the
world like, and YouTube can help that be known, can
help them provide that fame, but also we can generate
revenue for them. Um. And so as long as we're
doing a good job of that creator who are going
(05:54):
to come to us, if we start to fail, then
they're going to leave us and they're going to go
to another platform. And so we just need to work
really hard to make sure that we deliver that for
our creators. A year ago, during the Black Lives Matter protest,
YouTube made big commitments to black creators in particular. What's
been the progress there and how do you see YouTube
the potential for YouTube to be used as a tool
(06:15):
for social justice. Well, so we've made an announcement that
we were going to do a hundred million dollar Black
Voices fund, um, And so we're continuing to develop content there. Um.
But one of the other things, and I think there'll
be there's been a lot of great content that's come
out and will certainly see more. Um. But you know,
because YouTube doesn't have any gatekeepers like you can just
(06:35):
post and become a creator. Um. You know, we've we
have seen a lot of people of different backgrounds and
underrepresented backgrounds become creators and have audiences. Um. We never
really measured it beforehand because we didn't have a way.
And so one of the things that we've done is
we've been we've enabled creators to now tell us what
backgrounds they they affiliate with, so we can have a
(06:58):
better understanding of how they're doing on our platform. Let's
talk about YouTube shorts. It seems to be a top
priority we all know that TikTok is on the rise.
How important are YouTube shorts to the platform, to the company,
So YouTube firs it's very important. UM. We see that
creators UM and users want to watch all types of content,
long form, short form. It turns out that the first
(07:20):
video that was actually ever uploaded to YouTube me at
the Zoo was an eighteen second video, so it was
a short form video. And what we have lots of
short form views and we've had a way before TikTok did.
But what we have really been leaning into more is
just enabling those two be found UM and then a
lot of the creation tools and so bringing a lot
more mobile creation is really important for us going forward.
(07:43):
Did you notice that viewing time was being lost to TikTok?
Did you see that trend? And do you see TikTok
as a sort of existential threat. I mean, we definitely
see many competitors in this space. What we're just focused
on our like our own metrics, like do we see
our users engaging UM, where's our opportunity? We're always looking
around and seeing what our competitors are doing and if
(08:04):
they're doing something we think would be good for our
users and our creators like you know, we're also gonna
look at how we can improve our our own economy,
creator economy and what's good for our users. This is
my conversation with the CEO of YouTube, Susan Wichitzki. Coming
(08:26):
up the video giants, war against COVID and vaccine misinformation
and what about kids? We'll talk about how YouTube can
keep children safe from toxic content. I'm etally chang. This
is Bloomberg Studio. One point out stay with us. At
(08:51):
this point. YouTube has become a hub for discovery, for
information for you know, it satisfies our our curiosities. Right.
That comes with a lot of inspiration, but also with
misinformation when it comes to vaccines, vaccine hesitancy, videos that
cause a public health risk. Where do you want to
see YouTube do better? We've taken responsibility very seriously. It's
(09:14):
been one of my top priorities. So first of all,
we want to make sure that if there's information that
violates our policies. We came up with ten different policies
around COVID. Then if that's a violation of policies, then
that's something that will remove. We removed over a million
videos associated with COVID, but we also want to make
sure that we're raising up information that we think would
be that come from trusted and authoritative sources. And we've
(09:36):
really been able to do that. I think a lot
of people, you know, we talk about vaccine hesitancy and
they blame social media. They say YouTube not doing enough.
You know, how do you respond to that? Yeah, I
mean I think, well, first of all, we're always learning.
I just just to be fair, like, we're always thinking
about how can we do better. We're looking at the
feedback and working with public health experts UM across the
(09:58):
board and UM. You know, I think one of the
big things for us is to continue to work with
public health experts to understand, you know, what are the
ways that we can partner with them to get their
messages across UM. And I really believe that that is
something that's really changed, is the is the evolution of
bringing creators, musicians, experts talking about public health. We never
(10:21):
would have seen that before the pandemic. How much do
you internalize the criticism of of YouTube's content do you
take it personally? And and and how does that influence
the decisions that you make? Is CEO, I want to
be doing the right thing, and I care about that.
I care about the legacy that we leave. I care
about the world that we leave to our children. I
(10:43):
care about how media is consumed by the next generation
and by by everyone today. And so I really have
put a lot of time and effort to make sure
that we are acting responsibly. UM. And there's always a
balance between the free speech and uh right, but being
(11:03):
responsible and taking down content that we think could lead
to some kind of real world harm um. And so
make sure, I think whenever you're in a position like that,
there's going to be a lot of criticism. UM. But
our goal is just to continue to talk to experts
and evolve and how do you make decisions in those
tough moments where it's a tough call, Like how much
(11:24):
of it is making a decision or leading by consensus
and how much does it come down to you? The
goal is that when we have tough decisions, they're not
we're not they're like improvising in some way, like we've
made a concrete set of decisions beforehand, and then we're
looking and saying, is this something that meets our standards? Um?
Is it a violation or not a violation? And if
(11:46):
it seems like there's some set of issues with the
content that we have on the platform. We're going to
go back to experts and then reevaluate is it should
we be making changes to our policies. YouTube helped keep
a generation of children connected, educated, entertained, this drafted through
the pandemic. What have you learned from that experience and
what do you see as the potential future of YouTube
(12:08):
as a tool for learning as a tool in schools.
When I meet people and they find out on the
CEO of YouTube, almost always they tell me about something
they learned on YouTube or someone that they're something their
family member learned UM. So I see that as being
a very significant part of YouTube. And during the pandemic,
we certainly saw that a lot more education went online,
and we had all the homeschooling. We had people who
(12:30):
had to also just learn a lot of skills that
they hadn't learned beforehand. But probably the biggest thing that
we also learned was just and that I really saw
was a need for us to continue to work with
educational UM institutions and the need for us to be
able to integrate with some of the learning tools that
the kids are all using because they are using YouTube,
and there's a lot more that we can do to
(12:51):
really help educators have YouTube be a key part of
the curriculum. My kids are on YouTube a lot, and
sometimes more than I want them to be, and sometimes
it's super productive and they're learning something cool, and sometimes
it's not productive at all. How are you innovating to
make the time that kids spend on YouTube more valuable
and of course safe. It's very important to me as
(13:13):
a parent to make sure that we're giving parents options
about how what they want their kids to see. And
that's one of the reasons that pretty much as soon
as I got to YouTube, we started working on YouTube
kids um, which is a separate app, which is important
for kids in terms of how we can control the
quality and we can give parents a lot more control
about what kind of content is appropriate for them and
(13:35):
their family. And you know, there are many other things
like we actually just came out with a supervised experience
for tweens because tweens was one of the age groups
that was actually hardest. They usually don't want to be
on the kids app, but they're not thirteen to be
on the on the main app, and so the supervised
experience is something that we recently came out with. The
Wall Street Journal has been doing some in depth reporting
(13:56):
on Facebook. UM. You know, the report is that Facebook
knew that Instagram was toxic for teen girls and didn't
do anything about it. Does YouTube look at the impact
it has on on teen users, the influence that might
have on on someone's body image or self esteem. First
of all, I think it's a it's a very important topic.
And UM we we UM do have a panel of
(14:20):
experts that we work with to be able to help
us understand what are the different ways that our product
could be used or what are how do we face
some of these challenging issues to make sure that we're
getting the best advice UM and UM we certainly do
see for a lot of really tough issues that YouTube
can be a really valuable resource. So body positivity, mental health.
(14:44):
We see a lot of creators actually talk about mental health.
UM and that that for a lot of kids. UM,
it's really like destigmatizes UM and enables people to talk
about what's happening and what's going on with them. The
potential long term impact of YouTube on teens and on children,
whether it is toxic or whether it's addictive. Is that
(15:06):
something that you wonder about, Is that something that you
struggle with, not just as a CEO, but as a mom.
We certainly want to make sure that we are doing
what we can to be responsible with kids and in
every way possible. Um. And that's one of the reasons
that we actually have worked hard to give parents as
many options as possible for them to decide what is
important for them and their family, whether that's like limiting
(15:29):
screen time, like limiting what is the content they actually
have access to. I mean even letting parents just say,
these are like the ten videos, my kid can only
see these ten videos, um. And so that is that
is really important for us to give the tools back
to parents for them to decide what is best for
them and their family. You're listening to my conversation with
(15:57):
Susan Wichitki, CEO of YouTube up next banning Trump censoring
Russian content. How Wajitski and YouTube are at the center
of some of the most controversial choices facing the tech
industry yet, and with the Biden administration targeting big tech,
the leaders of Facebook, Twitter, and Google have all been
called to Capitol Hill. Is Wajitski herself willing to testify
(16:19):
before Congress. I'm Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg Studio. At
one point, Oh, stay with us. How much did President
(16:46):
Trump test YouTube? And how much did it test you
as a leader? Election integrity is something that we see
incredibly is incredibly important, UM, and of leaned into in
every way we've possibly can we treat all public figures
and all public leaders the same as we treat any
individual and so, meaning that everybody is held to the
(17:09):
same standards. UM. And so we definitely UM held President
Trump as we would hold all other presidents and all
other elected officials to the same standards that we hold
our creators and anyone else on YouTube. What was that
difficult for you as the city of the company. I mean,
that's kind of that's like a big responsibility. I mean, yeah,
(17:30):
it is difficult, but it is very important. And we
also are global, so we're dealing with leaders from all
over the world. UM. And there were a number of
leaders that and they're continuing to be a number of
leaders that that post or that there's content that may
be a violation of our policies. UM. But we do
hold a consistent standard across everything that we do. YouTube
(17:51):
was the last platform to ban Trump, and you have
said his channel will be reinstated when an elevated risk
of violence has subsided. How and when specifically will you
make that decision. Well, we'll make that decision based on
a number of different factors, whether that is like events
in the news, um, signals we're seeing from the from
(18:13):
the government, um. And you will certainly continue to evaluate
that based on a large number of signals that we see.
And will he ultimately be reinstated. I mean, we've stated
that we will reinstate him when we believe that there
is no risk to public safety or no public danger.
Google just remove a voting app for Russian opposition leader
(18:34):
Alexei Navali. The Russian government seems to be stepping up
requests to take down content. You've talked in the past
about your family history, your grandparents living behind the Iron Curtain,
being concerned about censorship back then, and Russia is a
huge YouTube audience. How concerned are you about Russian government overreach.
(18:54):
One of the things that we're is important to us
at YouTube is the fact that we do enable so
many voices and that we do enable people to express
themselves and really celebrate the freedom of speech, um And
we certainly you know that's that's a core value of ours.
Um And. But when we work with governments are many
(19:15):
things that we have to take in consideration, like whether
it's like local laws or um what's happening on the ground.
And so there's always going to be multiple considerations that
we're going to have to take into consideration. I've only
said that YouTube deleted a video. One of his videos
was that at the request of the Russian government. We
certainly get requests from governments, um and, and we look
(19:41):
and consider what's you know, why are we getting the request,
What's actually happening on the ground, um And, based on
a whole bunch of different factors, we make a decision. Um.
So we don't always those are not always requests that
makes sense for us to honor, but in certain cases,
you know, we will honor them in that country. Biden
administration seems to be targeting big tech. We've seen Mark Zuckerberg,
(20:05):
We've seen Jack Dorsey now testify before Congress multiple times,
and I've heard it said that YouTube is getting a pass.
Do you think you should be up there testifying? Well,
I think we do get a lot of scrutiny. I
feel like there's a lot of scrutiny UM And because
YouTube is part of Google, UM Center has testified a
number of different times and answered many different questions on YouTube.
(20:27):
So I do believe there's a certain amount of scrutiny.
And you know, if if I were ever asked to testify,
I certainly would go and testify as well. You're one
of the most senior women at Google, if not the
most senior woman at Google. Google has faced a lot
of scrutiny for how it treats women in recent years.
How much progress do you think Google has made in
(20:47):
hiring and promoting women across the company and how much
progress do you think still needs to be made. I
see a really big effort across technology as a whole
to be able to be more inclusive, and I think
that is really positive. I've been a big supporter of it.
It's the very beginning, UM. And I mean I think
at Google there are many efforts and there's a lot
(21:08):
of UM, a lot of work UM that has been done,
and I'm sure there's a lot more for us to
continue to do. And if you just look at the stats,
you can see they're not enough women. We need more women,
um in technology, and I think we have made a
lot of progress, but it's still hard. It's hard to
be it's harder to be a woman in technology, it's
harder to be a minority of any kind. Um. And
(21:29):
so I think there's still a lot of work for
us to do. When we last book five years ago, UM,
you know, I asked you about being a mom. You
have five kids, and you said something that really stuck
with me. You said, being a mom makes me a
better leader. I prioritize better. I see something growing fast,
and I run towards that. If something's growing closely, I'm like,
I don't have time for that. How has that management
strategy played out for you? I think it's played out
(21:51):
really well. I think it's been. I mean, prioritization is
everything when you look at it, because we have a
lot of opportunity. There's a lot of moving pieces, very
dynamic environment. So if you can prioritize and say these
are like the most important things to do, then you
know you're going to get there faster. Larry and start
going to have now left, how long do you plan
(22:12):
to keep running YouTube? How long do you plan to
stay at Google as long as I have a mission
that I believe in and that I and thinks that
I'm excited about getting done. So I have a lot
of ways that I see that YouTube can continue to grow.
I have a lot of products and ideas and things
that aren't yet released and things that we don't aren't
yet doing um, and I'm excited about getting those done.
(22:33):
So I think if there comes a time where I
no longer have a list of projects where I feel
like I don't have that much more to add, than
it will be probably time to do something else. Would
you throw your hat into the ring to be alphabets
next CEO or if the board asked you, would you
step up and do that? Well? I think Sunder is
doing a great job, very very um please, I think
(22:58):
he's doing I mean, it's a very challenge job. There's
a lot of different constituents and a lot of product,
a lot of different issues um. And I mean I'll
just say I'll always do whatever UM would be wherever
I could be most helpful to the company. Do you
still talk much to Larry and say I do still
see them socially, though not not not work wise. Do
(23:20):
you ever talk about work. I mean sometimes maybe casually,
but our business is very complex right now, UM, and
there's a lot of things that are happening, and so
it's hard for UM. I mean, people may have different opinions,
but UM to really to to really engage at a
long conversation. Why do you want your legacy to be?
(23:41):
I am proud of the way that we've been able
to enable people to have a a channel, to have
an audience. Like I just met with a number of
three three creators and like YouTube really was able to
let them shine and create audiences in a business and
employ people that otherwise never would have had. And so
(24:01):
that's certainly one UM. Continuing to grow that, I'd say
a second, it's been really important to me too to
see a lot more women in technology. UM. That has
been just a personal goal of mine is to be
a role model and try to support women. And I
feel very fortunate to be have gotten to where I have,
(24:21):
and I know it was due to many different factors, UM,
and I want to support the next generation of women
and make se technology as like an open place where
anyone can come and be successful. UH. And then probably lastly,
continuing to grow what we're doing with education of YouTube.
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Bloom
(24:47):
Brook Studio one pointo is produced and edited by Kevin
Hines and Lauren Ellis. Our managing editor is Daniel Culbertson,
with production assistance from malorye Abelhausen. If you like our show,
please share it or write a review on Apple Podcasts
or We're where you get your podcasts. I'm Emily Chain,
your host and executive producer. This is Bloomberg
Hi everyone, I'm Emily Chang and this is Bloomberg Studio
one point oh, a series where I speak with the
biggest influencers in technology and media. This is where we
have in depth conversations with the very people shaping the
future of innovation and business and hear their vision for
what comes next. Today we dive deep down the YouTube
rabbit hole with the CEO of the world's most popular
(00:20):
video network. Since the very first YouTube video was uploaded
sixteen years ago, YouTube has exploded to more than two
billion users in the farthest corners of the planet, now
raking in billions of dollars every year. It's evolved a
long way from cat videos to become a one click
journey to the center of the zeitgeist, pop culture and
(00:44):
kid culture, amplifying some of the brightest and sometimes darkest
traits in all of us. While YouTube has elevated a
generation of creators and educated and entertained generations of viewers,
it's fought misinformation, terrorism, racism, and violence many clicks along
the way. Lately, YouTube's biggest battles are focused on eliminating
(01:07):
COVID and vaccine misinformation and keeping the platform safe for
kids and teens. On this edition of the Bloomberg Studio
One Point podcast, will rewind to talk about where YouTube
has been and fast forward to where it's going next,
with one of the longest tenured employees and women at
Google and the CEO of YouTube, Susan wijet Ski. Susan,
(01:32):
it's so great to talk to you again. Thank you
for having me. It's been five years since we last
talked on camera, and we have a new president, we
are weathering a pandemic. The most watch video on YouTube
is baby Shark, Baby Shark, So a lot has changed since.
How do you feel about YouTube? Ver? I feel good
(01:57):
about it. Um, It's definitely been a while, and in technology,
things moved so quickly, so a lot of things have
changed since. And UM, I mean overall, I've been really
pleased that we have continued to grow and grow our
ecosystem of creators. UM. We've invested a lot in responsibility
and UM that's been a really big focus for us.
(02:19):
UM And you know, with weather through a pandemic and
a lot of hard challenges. But overall, I'm feeling really good.
You've been at Google for twenty plus years, going all
the way back to Larry AND's are gay in the garage.
You've been the CEO of YouTube for seven plus years.
How has your job changed in that time since I
joined being the CEO of YouTube? I would say one
(02:42):
of the biggest things that has changed certainly has just
been maybe the recognition of the importance of digital video.
So when I first joined, actually a lot of people
would say, oh, like, why did you join um UM.
I was running ads beforehand and that was That's been
the in way Google generates revenue, and so a lot
(03:02):
of people said, like, why did you leave that and
go to YouTube? But I always believed in digital video
and I believe that now we see that the world
also believes. We've seen a lot of adoption of digital
video and the benefits that that can have. You've championed
this diversification strategy at YouTube since you started. What's working
and what's not working well. Our main way of generating
(03:23):
revenue is from advertising, um, but we also have really
grown our subscription revenue, and um that has been really
really important from many different reasons. So that has enabled
our users to have experience where they can have music,
YouTube music and premium. We just announced the fifty million
subscribers that we were really excited about UM. But we
(03:44):
also see other ways that our creators generate revenue. So
our creators, for example, generate revenue with channel subscriptions, they
may sell merchandise. UM. We also have things like UM
digital goods, so like UM super chat, um, super Thanks,
and so we've basically diversified the number of ways that
that our ecosystem is generating revenue. The original tagline for
(04:08):
YouTube was broadcast yourself, and that concept has exploded. We
have ordinary people in the spotlight. When they grow up,
they want to be an influencer, they want to be
a YouTube star or a YouTube creator. What do you
see as the future of the creator economy. I see
a lot of possibility with the creator economy, and because
(04:29):
I see that many people have a lot of interest
and they have a lot to offer, and beforehand they
went up been able to have shared shared that with
the world. And so there's so many people depending upon
what their talent or their interest is, whether it's a
sport or cooking or gaming or hairstyles, that people have
come out and really been able to share that and
(04:50):
create a lot of jobs. UM. So we actually see
like our we actually saw thirty percent increase in the
number of creators that are generating UM six figure income
out of YouTube and in the last year. And so
that's just an example of how the creator economy is
continuing to grow well. And for years YouTube was the
only company that actually paid creators, but now a lot
(05:12):
of companies are paying creators, Facebook and Instagram, snap TikTok.
How do you see that competition playing out? Who wins well?
It is a competitive landscape and in general, competition is good.
It makes everyone work harder and that's good. Um. I mean,
we look at creators and we say they're going to
(05:34):
come to us if we do the best job. And
creators come to us looking basically for fame and fortune,
like how can I have a skill or I have
a talent um something I want to share with the
world like, and YouTube can help that be known, can
help them provide that fame, but also we can generate
revenue for them. Um. And so as long as we're
doing a good job of that creator who are going
(05:54):
to come to us, if we start to fail, then
they're going to leave us and they're going to go
to another platform. And so we just need to work
really hard to make sure that we deliver that for
our creators. A year ago, during the Black Lives Matter protest,
YouTube made big commitments to black creators in particular. What's
been the progress there and how do you see YouTube
the potential for YouTube to be used as a tool
(06:15):
for social justice. Well, so we've made an announcement that
we were going to do a hundred million dollar Black
Voices fund, um, And so we're continuing to develop content there. Um.
But one of the other things, and I think there'll
be there's been a lot of great content that's come
out and will certainly see more. Um. But you know,
because YouTube doesn't have any gatekeepers like you can just
(06:35):
post and become a creator. Um. You know, we've we
have seen a lot of people of different backgrounds and
underrepresented backgrounds become creators and have audiences. Um. We never
really measured it beforehand because we didn't have a way.
And so one of the things that we've done is
we've been we've enabled creators to now tell us what
backgrounds they they affiliate with, so we can have a
(06:58):
better understanding of how they're doing on our platform. Let's
talk about YouTube shorts. It seems to be a top
priority we all know that TikTok is on the rise.
How important are YouTube shorts to the platform, to the company,
So YouTube firs it's very important. UM. We see that
creators UM and users want to watch all types of content,
long form, short form. It turns out that the first
(07:20):
video that was actually ever uploaded to YouTube me at
the Zoo was an eighteen second video, so it was
a short form video. And what we have lots of
short form views and we've had a way before TikTok did.
But what we have really been leaning into more is
just enabling those two be found UM and then a
lot of the creation tools and so bringing a lot
more mobile creation is really important for us going forward.
(07:43):
Did you notice that viewing time was being lost to TikTok?
Did you see that trend? And do you see TikTok
as a sort of existential threat. I mean, we definitely
see many competitors in this space. What we're just focused
on our like our own metrics, like do we see
our users engaging UM, where's our opportunity? We're always looking
around and seeing what our competitors are doing and if
(08:04):
they're doing something we think would be good for our
users and our creators like you know, we're also gonna
look at how we can improve our our own economy,
creator economy and what's good for our users. This is
my conversation with the CEO of YouTube, Susan Wichitzki. Coming
(08:26):
up the video giants, war against COVID and vaccine misinformation
and what about kids? We'll talk about how YouTube can
keep children safe from toxic content. I'm etally chang. This
is Bloomberg Studio. One point out stay with us. At
(08:51):
this point. YouTube has become a hub for discovery, for
information for you know, it satisfies our our curiosities. Right.
That comes with a lot of inspiration, but also with
misinformation when it comes to vaccines, vaccine hesitancy, videos that
cause a public health risk. Where do you want to
see YouTube do better? We've taken responsibility very seriously. It's
(09:14):
been one of my top priorities. So first of all,
we want to make sure that if there's information that
violates our policies. We came up with ten different policies
around COVID. Then if that's a violation of policies, then
that's something that will remove. We removed over a million
videos associated with COVID, but we also want to make
sure that we're raising up information that we think would
be that come from trusted and authoritative sources. And we've
(09:36):
really been able to do that. I think a lot
of people, you know, we talk about vaccine hesitancy and
they blame social media. They say YouTube not doing enough.
You know, how do you respond to that? Yeah, I
mean I think, well, first of all, we're always learning.
I just just to be fair, like, we're always thinking
about how can we do better. We're looking at the
feedback and working with public health experts UM across the
(09:58):
board and UM. You know, I think one of the
big things for us is to continue to work with
public health experts to understand, you know, what are the
ways that we can partner with them to get their
messages across UM. And I really believe that that is
something that's really changed, is the is the evolution of
bringing creators, musicians, experts talking about public health. We never
(10:21):
would have seen that before the pandemic. How much do
you internalize the criticism of of YouTube's content do you
take it personally? And and and how does that influence
the decisions that you make? Is CEO, I want to
be doing the right thing, and I care about that.
I care about the legacy that we leave. I care
about the world that we leave to our children. I
(10:43):
care about how media is consumed by the next generation
and by by everyone today. And so I really have
put a lot of time and effort to make sure
that we are acting responsibly. UM. And there's always a
balance between the free speech and uh right, but being
(11:03):
responsible and taking down content that we think could lead
to some kind of real world harm um. And so
make sure, I think whenever you're in a position like that,
there's going to be a lot of criticism. UM. But
our goal is just to continue to talk to experts
and evolve and how do you make decisions in those
tough moments where it's a tough call, Like how much
(11:24):
of it is making a decision or leading by consensus
and how much does it come down to you? The
goal is that when we have tough decisions, they're not
we're not they're like improvising in some way, like we've
made a concrete set of decisions beforehand, and then we're
looking and saying, is this something that meets our standards? Um?
Is it a violation or not a violation? And if
(11:46):
it seems like there's some set of issues with the
content that we have on the platform. We're going to
go back to experts and then reevaluate is it should
we be making changes to our policies. YouTube helped keep
a generation of children connected, educated, entertained, this drafted through
the pandemic. What have you learned from that experience and
what do you see as the potential future of YouTube
(12:08):
as a tool for learning as a tool in schools.
When I meet people and they find out on the
CEO of YouTube, almost always they tell me about something
they learned on YouTube or someone that they're something their
family member learned UM. So I see that as being
a very significant part of YouTube. And during the pandemic,
we certainly saw that a lot more education went online,
and we had all the homeschooling. We had people who
(12:30):
had to also just learn a lot of skills that
they hadn't learned beforehand. But probably the biggest thing that
we also learned was just and that I really saw
was a need for us to continue to work with
educational UM institutions and the need for us to be
able to integrate with some of the learning tools that
the kids are all using because they are using YouTube,
and there's a lot more that we can do to
(12:51):
really help educators have YouTube be a key part of
the curriculum. My kids are on YouTube a lot, and
sometimes more than I want them to be, and sometimes
it's super productive and they're learning something cool, and sometimes
it's not productive at all. How are you innovating to
make the time that kids spend on YouTube more valuable
and of course safe. It's very important to me as
(13:13):
a parent to make sure that we're giving parents options
about how what they want their kids to see. And
that's one of the reasons that pretty much as soon
as I got to YouTube, we started working on YouTube
kids um, which is a separate app, which is important
for kids in terms of how we can control the
quality and we can give parents a lot more control
about what kind of content is appropriate for them and
(13:35):
their family. And you know, there are many other things
like we actually just came out with a supervised experience
for tweens because tweens was one of the age groups
that was actually hardest. They usually don't want to be
on the kids app, but they're not thirteen to be
on the on the main app, and so the supervised
experience is something that we recently came out with. The
Wall Street Journal has been doing some in depth reporting
(13:56):
on Facebook. UM. You know, the report is that Facebook
knew that Instagram was toxic for teen girls and didn't
do anything about it. Does YouTube look at the impact
it has on on teen users, the influence that might
have on on someone's body image or self esteem. First
of all, I think it's a it's a very important topic.
And UM we we UM do have a panel of
(14:20):
experts that we work with to be able to help
us understand what are the different ways that our product
could be used or what are how do we face
some of these challenging issues to make sure that we're
getting the best advice UM and UM we certainly do
see for a lot of really tough issues that YouTube
can be a really valuable resource. So body positivity, mental health.
(14:44):
We see a lot of creators actually talk about mental health.
UM and that that for a lot of kids. UM,
it's really like destigmatizes UM and enables people to talk
about what's happening and what's going on with them. The
potential long term impact of YouTube on teens and on children,
whether it is toxic or whether it's addictive. Is that
(15:06):
something that you wonder about, Is that something that you
struggle with, not just as a CEO, but as a mom.
We certainly want to make sure that we are doing
what we can to be responsible with kids and in
every way possible. Um. And that's one of the reasons
that we actually have worked hard to give parents as
many options as possible for them to decide what is
important for them and their family, whether that's like limiting
(15:29):
screen time, like limiting what is the content they actually
have access to. I mean even letting parents just say,
these are like the ten videos, my kid can only
see these ten videos, um. And so that is that
is really important for us to give the tools back
to parents for them to decide what is best for
them and their family. You're listening to my conversation with
(15:57):
Susan Wichitki, CEO of YouTube up next banning Trump censoring
Russian content. How Wajitski and YouTube are at the center
of some of the most controversial choices facing the tech
industry yet, and with the Biden administration targeting big tech,
the leaders of Facebook, Twitter, and Google have all been
called to Capitol Hill. Is Wajitski herself willing to testify
(16:19):
before Congress. I'm Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg Studio. At
one point, Oh, stay with us. How much did President
(16:46):
Trump test YouTube? And how much did it test you
as a leader? Election integrity is something that we see
incredibly is incredibly important, UM, and of leaned into in
every way we've possibly can we treat all public figures
and all public leaders the same as we treat any
individual and so, meaning that everybody is held to the
(17:09):
same standards. UM. And so we definitely UM held President
Trump as we would hold all other presidents and all
other elected officials to the same standards that we hold
our creators and anyone else on YouTube. What was that
difficult for you as the city of the company. I mean,
that's kind of that's like a big responsibility. I mean, yeah,
(17:30):
it is difficult, but it is very important. And we
also are global, so we're dealing with leaders from all
over the world. UM. And there were a number of
leaders that and they're continuing to be a number of
leaders that that post or that there's content that may
be a violation of our policies. UM. But we do
hold a consistent standard across everything that we do. YouTube
(17:51):
was the last platform to ban Trump, and you have
said his channel will be reinstated when an elevated risk
of violence has subsided. How and when specifically will you
make that decision. Well, we'll make that decision based on
a number of different factors, whether that is like events
in the news, um, signals we're seeing from the from
(18:13):
the government, um. And you will certainly continue to evaluate
that based on a large number of signals that we see.
And will he ultimately be reinstated. I mean, we've stated
that we will reinstate him when we believe that there
is no risk to public safety or no public danger.
Google just remove a voting app for Russian opposition leader
(18:34):
Alexei Navali. The Russian government seems to be stepping up
requests to take down content. You've talked in the past
about your family history, your grandparents living behind the Iron Curtain,
being concerned about censorship back then, and Russia is a
huge YouTube audience. How concerned are you about Russian government overreach.
(18:54):
One of the things that we're is important to us
at YouTube is the fact that we do enable so
many voices and that we do enable people to express
themselves and really celebrate the freedom of speech, um And
we certainly you know that's that's a core value of ours.
Um And. But when we work with governments are many
(19:15):
things that we have to take in consideration, like whether
it's like local laws or um what's happening on the ground.
And so there's always going to be multiple considerations that
we're going to have to take into consideration. I've only
said that YouTube deleted a video. One of his videos
was that at the request of the Russian government. We
certainly get requests from governments, um and, and we look
(19:41):
and consider what's you know, why are we getting the request,
What's actually happening on the ground, um And, based on
a whole bunch of different factors, we make a decision. Um.
So we don't always those are not always requests that
makes sense for us to honor, but in certain cases,
you know, we will honor them in that country. Biden
administration seems to be targeting big tech. We've seen Mark Zuckerberg,
(20:05):
We've seen Jack Dorsey now testify before Congress multiple times,
and I've heard it said that YouTube is getting a pass.
Do you think you should be up there testifying? Well,
I think we do get a lot of scrutiny. I
feel like there's a lot of scrutiny UM And because
YouTube is part of Google, UM Center has testified a
number of different times and answered many different questions on YouTube.
(20:27):
So I do believe there's a certain amount of scrutiny.
And you know, if if I were ever asked to testify,
I certainly would go and testify as well. You're one
of the most senior women at Google, if not the
most senior woman at Google. Google has faced a lot
of scrutiny for how it treats women in recent years.
How much progress do you think Google has made in
(20:47):
hiring and promoting women across the company and how much
progress do you think still needs to be made. I
see a really big effort across technology as a whole
to be able to be more inclusive, and I think
that is really positive. I've been a big supporter of it.
It's the very beginning, UM. And I mean I think
at Google there are many efforts and there's a lot
(21:08):
of UM, a lot of work UM that has been done,
and I'm sure there's a lot more for us to
continue to do. And if you just look at the stats,
you can see they're not enough women. We need more women,
um in technology, and I think we have made a
lot of progress, but it's still hard. It's hard to
be it's harder to be a woman in technology, it's
harder to be a minority of any kind. Um. And
(21:29):
so I think there's still a lot of work for
us to do. When we last book five years ago, UM,
you know, I asked you about being a mom. You
have five kids, and you said something that really stuck
with me. You said, being a mom makes me a
better leader. I prioritize better. I see something growing fast,
and I run towards that. If something's growing closely, I'm like,
I don't have time for that. How has that management
strategy played out for you? I think it's played out
(21:51):
really well. I think it's been. I mean, prioritization is
everything when you look at it, because we have a
lot of opportunity. There's a lot of moving pieces, very
dynamic environment. So if you can prioritize and say these
are like the most important things to do, then you
know you're going to get there faster. Larry and start
going to have now left, how long do you plan
(22:12):
to keep running YouTube? How long do you plan to
stay at Google as long as I have a mission
that I believe in and that I and thinks that
I'm excited about getting done. So I have a lot
of ways that I see that YouTube can continue to grow.
I have a lot of products and ideas and things
that aren't yet released and things that we don't aren't
yet doing um, and I'm excited about getting those done.
(22:33):
So I think if there comes a time where I
no longer have a list of projects where I feel
like I don't have that much more to add, than
it will be probably time to do something else. Would
you throw your hat into the ring to be alphabets
next CEO or if the board asked you, would you
step up and do that? Well? I think Sunder is
doing a great job, very very um please, I think
(22:58):
he's doing I mean, it's a very challenge job. There's
a lot of different constituents and a lot of product,
a lot of different issues um. And I mean I'll
just say I'll always do whatever UM would be wherever
I could be most helpful to the company. Do you
still talk much to Larry and say I do still
see them socially, though not not not work wise. Do
(23:20):
you ever talk about work. I mean sometimes maybe casually,
but our business is very complex right now, UM, and
there's a lot of things that are happening, and so
it's hard for UM. I mean, people may have different opinions,
but UM to really to to really engage at a
long conversation. Why do you want your legacy to be?
(23:41):
I am proud of the way that we've been able
to enable people to have a a channel, to have
an audience. Like I just met with a number of
three three creators and like YouTube really was able to
let them shine and create audiences in a business and
employ people that otherwise never would have had. And so
(24:01):
that's certainly one UM. Continuing to grow that, I'd say
a second, it's been really important to me too to
see a lot more women in technology. UM. That has
been just a personal goal of mine is to be
a role model and try to support women. And I
feel very fortunate to be have gotten to where I have,
(24:21):
and I know it was due to many different factors, UM,
and I want to support the next generation of women
and make se technology as like an open place where
anyone can come and be successful. UH. And then probably lastly,
continuing to grow what we're doing with education of YouTube.
Thank you, thank you so much for having me. Bloom
(24:47):
Brook Studio one pointo is produced and edited by Kevin
Hines and Lauren Ellis. Our managing editor is Daniel Culbertson,
with production assistance from malorye Abelhausen. If you like our show,
please share it or write a review on Apple Podcasts
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your host and executive producer. This is Bloomberg
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