January 30, 2025 • 22 mins
Maryland Governor Wes Moore said he was not considering a run for
president in 2028, as he tried to tone down speculation about his national
aspirations ahead of his own reelection bid next year. Moore also pledged to
work with the Trump's administration to find common-sense solutions for
Maryland, but will also criticize the president when necessary. He appears on
"The David Rubenstein Show: Peer to Peer Conversations." This interview
was recorded on January 17 in Annapolis, Maryland.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm in the State House of Maryland, where I just
had a conversation with Wesmore, the charismatic governor of Maryland.
He said he was definitely going to run for reelection
two years. He also said he hasn't decided whether he's
going to run for president of the United States, but
there are many people who think he'd be an excellent
candidate in four years. My conversation with him was one
of the most interesting ones I've had with any.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Governor in recent years.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You were asleep one night and somebody, I think woke
you up and said that the key Bridge was collapsing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Who woke you up? And what did you say?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It was our fantastic chief of Staff, Fagan Harris, at
two o two in the morning called and he said,
the key Bridge is gone. And that key Bridge is
you know, it's over two miles long. It is literally
it's in the skyline of every picture of Baltimore and
it's been there since I've been born. And when I
(00:56):
said to him, I said, what do you mean gone?
And he said it collapsed. And immediately we began mobilizing.
We were on the phone with the FBI trying to
figure out was their terrorism involved. You know what exactly happened,
how many cars were on the bridge, how many people
are unaccounted for. I'll never forget that morning because immediately
(01:17):
you just saw how we had to put the state
on a state of emergency. We had to be and
begin coordinating efforts. But I'll never forget that morning.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So, as it turned out, a number of people were
working in the middle of the night on the bridge,
and I guess most of them, if not all of them,
lost their lives. And now the bridge is now going
to be repaired. Somehow you managed to get the federal
government to pay.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
For all of it by partisan support.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So when will the bridge reopen?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It will reopen in twenty twenty eight. We will have
that bridge done.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And why is it important to Maryland and Baltimore to
have the Key bridge anyway?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, you know the Port of Baltimore. It really is
America's gateway. It's one of the most important, not just
maritime facilities, but just port entries that we have in
the country. Two thirds of the country get its goods
from the Port of Baltimore as its main entry point.
But there's only really three main arteries to the Port
of Baltimore. You have the Harbor Tunnel, you have you
(02:16):
have the Baltimore Tunnel, and then you have the Key Bridge.
The problem is that all has matt materials, oil, oil,
or your refinaries, et cetera. They cannot take tunnels legally,
they can only take the bridge. And so this is
having a distinct impact not just on transit and transportation,
(02:36):
but it is having a distinct impact on goods and
commerce being able to move.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So right now as we talk, there have been fires
in California. Do you have any advice for your fellow
Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom about how to handle crises like these?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean it's heartbreaking what's going on in southern California.
And I know, you know, I reached out to Gavin
as soon as I heard about happened and offered our
support and offered our resources as well, because I was
really humbled how many governors reached out to me right
after the Key Bridge and did the same. And so
that bond does matter. I think when I think about
the Key Bridge, the most important thing that we were
(03:14):
able to do was have unified command, was be able
to bring everybody on board that we were all singing
from the same sheet of music that we all had
unified goals.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
What caused the ship to collapse or crash into the bridge?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What was the cause?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Well, they're still going through that now. In fact, there's
litigation that our Attorney General has filed, and so we're
going through the process of identification. The thing that we
know is that bridges don't just collapse. There's negligence that
caused that bridge to collapse on March twenty six.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Maryland has had a reputation in this metropolitan area of
being a higher tax state than Virginia. Recently, you have
announced a three billion dollar budget gap that you're trying
to deal with, and part of it is you're increasing
taxes on wealthier people.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, but what we're doing is this, no one agrees
that the tax code makes sense in the state of Maryland,
and so I said, we've got to be able to
reform the tax code to make us more competitive and
to make taxes simpler, fare and pro growth. And so
I just announced a budget plan. And it is kind
of intuitive, but I explain to people to deal with
(04:19):
the budget deficit, the structural deficit that we inherited, we're
actually going to give two thursd of Marylanders a tax cut.
We're going to take eighty two percent of Marylanders and
say we're actually going to make sure that you pay
pay either less in taxes or there's no change. We
did not raise the sales tax, we did not raise
the income tax. We've cut the corporate tax rate in
(04:40):
the State of Maryland, and we've eliminated the inheritance tax.
And for a lot of people it did seem a
little bit odd because they're like, well, why don't you
just raise sales taxes or raise property taxes? And my
answer is this a I would have found that to
be just a lazy way of thinking because it's not reform.
We've got to reform the tax code. And the second
piece is it's not pro growth. I actually want to
(05:02):
attract businesses to come to the State of Maryland. And
that's why in our budget we have some historic adjustments
to doing regulatory reform, permitting reform, procurement reform. Actually, we've
announced an executive order focusing on government modernization, where it's
all about getting rid of the government waste, getting rid
of the unnecessary spending, doing consolidation, doing flee consolidation. It consolidation,
(05:27):
focusing on real estate, I mean, all things that we
can make get our economy going. And so that has
been the focus, is that we've got to get out
of this crisis by focusing on growth.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So, as we talk, Donald Trump is about to be
inaugurated again as President of the United States. So, as
a democratic leader and a democratic governor of Maryland, a
very democratic state, do you feel like you're a leader
of the opposition or do you feel like your job
is to cooperate with him? Or how do you view
Donald Trump as somebody that you work with or oppose.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not the leader of the resistance.
I'm the governor of Maryland. I've got six and a
half million people who I answer to, and some of
whom voted for Donald Trump, some of whom did not
vote for Donald Trump. But the thing that I know
is that the thing they all have in common is
they're Marylanders. And so the way I'm going to approach
this working with the new administration is the way that
(06:20):
I will approach working with any administration. Where I understand
how tethered Maryland is to Washington and to the federal government.
We have over one hundred and sixty thousand federal employees.
We are the home of some of the largest federal
installations in the country here in the state of Maryland.
That a lot of our infrastructure projects are being underwritten
by the federal government, to include the Key Bridge. So
(06:42):
I understand how important that relationship is, and I am
I am very clear that I will work with this
administration and find ways of finding common sense solutions that
are going to uplift Maryland, invest in Maryland, support Maryland.
I'll push back on things that I think are either
don't make sense or or unconstitutional or challenge our values.
(07:04):
But I am approaching this truly with a sense, with
a sense of partnership.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Why do you think Maryland has now become such a
liberal state, such a democratic state?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
We tell people that we are. This is the northernmost
southern state. I'm one of the only democratic southern governors
inside of the country. That the bloodiest battles of the
Civil War took place in the state of Maryland. I'm
the first black governor in the history of the state
of Maryland. That literally down the street is the docks
of the Annapolis Docks, which was one of the country's
(07:37):
first and largest slave ports. That the building we're in
right now, the state capital, was built by the hands
of enslaved people. So the dichotomy and the complexity of
this state is very real, but it's one of the
things that I take a real sense of pride in.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now, you ran for governor initially in twenty twenty two,
and we're elected overwhelmingly. You're up for reelection in twenty
two twenty six. Yes, you haven't announced yet. I don't
think that you're running.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I can announce now I'm running for re elections.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Okay, so you're running for reelection as governor. I think
you're likely to win based on everything I known about
Maryland politics. But the question you'll be asked is are
you thinking of running as well for President of the
United States?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And the answer to that question is no.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I've got the best job around and I love the
momentum we're actually seeing in the state of Maryland. You know,
I think about when I was first elected, Maryland was
ranked forty third in the country in unemployment. Now Maryland's
going on fifteen straight months of amongst the lowest unemployment
rates in the entire country. When I was elected governor,
Maryland was in the middle of a scourge of violent crime.
(08:45):
Over an eight year period, Maryland saw our homicide rate
nearly doubled. Baltimore City had eight straight years of three
hundred plus homicides. Now Maryland has amongst the most precipitous
drops in violent crime of anywhere in the country right now.
And so I love the momentum that we're seeing here
and I want this to be Maryland's decade and I
want to lead that charge.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Suppose people come to you and say, you did a
great job as Maryland governor. You just talked about some
of the things you've done. You've been reelected overwhelmingly. The
party really needs a charismatic figure to be the leader
in the post Donald Trump era.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You would say, I would say people should pay attention
to what we're doing here in Maryland, Okay, because I
think the momentum we're seeing here in Maryland, and I know,
you know, Maryland are seemed very happy. Our numbers are
very strong here. But people seem to people understand that
the momentum we're we're having here is really big and important.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
To me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
The biggest city in the state is Baltimore. Why is
Baltimore so important to you.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
It's our state's largest city, and if your state's largest
city is not thriving, your state can't thrive. And that
is just a mathematical equation because the only way this
is going to be Maryland's decade is if it's Baltimore's time.
And so that's why we did focus on things like
being able to extend the Oriole's lease and make sure
the Oreos could be it for thirty years. It's the
reason we focus on things like the Preakness and keeping
(10:06):
the Preakness in Maryland for generations to come. While we've
invested in the Convention Center, the reason we focused on
housing and getting rid of the vacant housing, the reason
we focus on violent crime, and now Baltimore is having
among the most precipitous drop of anywhere in the country
when it comes to homicides and non fatal shootings and
carjackings and auto thefts. So if you can have Baltimore thriving,
(10:29):
your state is going to thrive.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, let's talk about your background, which is quite unusual.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Where were you born.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I was born in Maryland in Tacoma Park, Maryland.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Okay, And your parents did what.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
My father was a radio journalist and my mother actually
was his assistant.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So your father died when you were only three years old.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, he died from something called acute epicatitis, which is basically,
you know the epiglottis that all of us have. It's
a flat that sits over your wind pipe and every
time you breathe and talk, and his became so swollen
that it just sat on top of his windpipe. So basically,
his body suffocated itself and he actually died in front
of me.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And did you realize what was happening when it was
going on you're only three years old.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I did, And in fact, my mother tells a story
about how at his funeral, my uncle Vin took me
up to go see his body for the final time
in the casket, and I actually touched him and I
asked him if he was going to come with us.
So even at that time, I still had no idea
what had fully happened, and didn't really process until I
(11:34):
got older.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So you have siblings, I do.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I have an older sister and a younger sister, and
my mother had a really tough time with the transition,
and she didn't feel safe in the neighborhood she didn't
feel safe in the house, and so she called up
her parents, my grandparents.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And then you grew up there and were you a
great student? Were you're a great athlete?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I was not a great student. But what was really
interesting was that the work actually came easy to me.
The attention into detail and the interest in doing it
did not. And so by the time I was eleven
years old, I had handcuffoer risks. By the time I
was thirteen, I was kicked out of my school and
(12:13):
I was sent to a military school in Pennsylvania. So
I had a really difficult time transitioning when I was younger.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So you went to the military school and it was
sort of a college and a high school combined.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It was it was it was a junior college, so
it was a two year college and also a middle
school in a high school. That's the thing that changed
everything for me at the military school was they put
me in charge of something and I was actually accountable
to other people from my actions. And that's why I
just believed deeply in accountability because I think that's actually
(12:46):
it's one of the things I helped to save my life.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
So you went into the military, the Army, and you
were there for a year or so before you went
to Hopkins.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So I went to I was there for two I
was in two years, so I finished up. I got
my associates degree. So in fact, I want the only
governors in the country actually with a two year college degree.
That's actually this ring right here. And then I transferred
after finishing my associate's degree, and then I went to
Johns Hopkins to finish my mindorgrad.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So who told you you should apply for a Rhodes scholarship.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
It was actually actually a mutual friend of ours, Kirchmoke.
I interned with Kirchmok who at that time was the
mayor of Baltimore. And in fact, I have a picture
in my office of him pointing to a picture in
his office back when I was a young intern and
i'd hair and he was a young mayor he had hair,
and the picture he's pointing to is actually his Rhodes
(13:36):
Scholarship class. And it was in that moment that he
was telling me, I want you to apply for the
Rhodes Scholarship.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So you got a Rhodes scholarship, which is only thirty
two Americans every year get them you went to Oxford.
When you got there, did you study anything?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I actually studied. I got my amlet or master's in
international relations, and I actually started the DFIL. So right
now I'm all by dissertation for my doctorate in international relations.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So, usually when people finish their Rhodes scholarships and they
get degrees, or they don't get degrees, they come back
and they run for office, They go to a private
equity firm, they go to an investment banking firm, they
teach at someplace. You did something different. What did you
do after your Rhodes scholarship?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
So what was interesting? Initially? I actually went into the
world of finance. And I remember getting a phone call
from a friend of mine who was at that time
a major, and he called me, and a major in
the army, he just finished twenty Rock. He was getting
ready to deployed to Afghanistan. And he called me and
he said, when are you going to get in the fight?
(14:39):
And that was such an indicting question because he was
right that I had trained with all these people. I'd
done my airborne training, I became a paratrooper, and these
many of these people were now on their second and
third deployments and I hadn't done a single one yet,
and so I made the decision and I left. I
(15:00):
left banking, and I linked up with the eighty second
Airborne Division and we deployed to Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
How many years were you in Afghanistan?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I was there for almost a full year. I was
thankful for the people I was serving with. The eighty
second is some of the best, some of the best
and most hard charging soldiers that the Army's ever created.
And there were really hard days.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So you came back and then what did you do
when you came back?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I actually did a White House Fellowship and part of
it was was my deputy brigade commander was also a
former White House Fellow.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
After you finished your White House Fellowship, then what did
you do?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Went to City City Bank at that point, and so
then I spent about I spent closet to five years
working for City doing investment banking, doing M and A,
and also doing technology.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Okay, she did that for a number of years and
then an organization came along called robin Hood and they
said we want you to head it up. What is
Robinhood and why did you take that job?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's one of the nation's largest poverty fighting organizations. It
started really over thirty years ago, and it started with
an initial idea of saying, what if you could take
analytics and data the same way we take analytics and
data when we're making trading decisions when we're buying companies,
and put that towards the poverty fight.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So, after four years at Robinhood, you decide to run
for governor of Maryland, never having run for anything else before,
Never did you think you had a chance.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
The data didn't seem to show I had a chance.
I mean I was pulling at one percent in our
first poll. I mean, I say it is true, literally,
I'm not voting, was polling higher than Wesmore. And so
the data showed I was running against statewide elected officials.
I was running against the former head of the DNC.
I was running against two cabinet secretaries. One of the
(16:50):
people I was running against was actually on my board
at Robinhood, which made board meetings very awkward. So I'm like,
I had people who were just like who were seasoned
at this. But I think I think the thing that
actually really resonated with people is that I don't come
from a political background. I don't come from a political family.
I don't do the politician thing. I don't do the
partisan thing. I just really focus on results and actually
(17:14):
meeting people where they are. And I think that actually
resonated with folks.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So when you get elected governor, do you actually say,
I'm really happy now I'm governor.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You took the job.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
In the first day you're sworn in, did you realize
that the responsibilities are much greater than you thought or
you actually thought. Wasn't that difficult a job?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
No? I mean it's a hard job because also I
think there were things that we inherited that we did
not that we didn't anticipate. You I remember coming in
and being able to re reports that you realize after
you came on board about the fiscal crisis that we
are getting ready to inherit that you know, we're currently
navigating the worst fiscal crisis that Maryland has seen in
(17:51):
twenty years. And it's something that has been predicted since
twenty and seventeen. But the problem was it wasn't dealt
with because there was COVID money, and COVID money kept
on masking the obstacles and masking the fact that our
business model in the state of Maryland was broken, and
that our economy wasn't moving. We were just so deeply
underperforming when it came to growth, whether it be the
(18:13):
way that Medicaid was being completely out of whack and
had a billion dollar expenditure that was not anticipated and
we need to see coming. There was a brokenness of
state government that I don't think we fully understood, and
so that's why our first priority had to be fixed
state government.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So what is your typical day as a governor? You
do some interviews, maybe on an interview like this, but
you are, let's say, at the beginning, every morning, is
I understand it, you go over to the Naval Academy
and you work out with the Navy midshipment, and I
mean you're a little bit older than them.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is that a little day wouldn't know it?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I do, And honestly I love the fact that the
Naval Academy is down the street from here. And as
an army guy, I always say, I just need to
figure out who to talk to. They have that beat
army stuff all over the place.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So you can keep up with them.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Oh yes, oh, there is no way as an army
guy there's no way I'm letting maybe smoke me.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
No way.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So I'm not going to get you to say you're
going to run for president.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I can know that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But you are going to play a role I assume
in the Democratic Party over the next couple of years
beyond just Maryland.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I assume right, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And do you think people who are governors are more
qualified to be presidents than people who are senators?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I think. I think if people want to find inspiration,
look at the states, because we just get stuff done.
You know, we don't. We don't we don't play the
partisan game. I don't do the you know I think
about I've introduced twenty six pieces of legislation since I've
been the governor. Not only have we gone twenty six
for twenty six, We've gone twenty six for twenty six
by partisan, with both Democrat and Republican support on every
(19:46):
single bill that I've introduced. And so I would say,
if you really want to see what it means to
focus on results, because that's what I focus on. I mean,
I don't do the partisan party stuff. Results show me results.
And I think if you look at what's happening in
Maryland and if you look what's happening in the states.
I think you're going to start seeing what results look like.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So if somebody is watching this and they're not from Maryland,
but they want to know a little bit about Maryland,
what would you encapsulate in a paragraph or two about
what people should know about the state of Maryland.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
I would say Maryland really is American miniature. You tell
me what you want to do, and no matter where
you're standing in the state of Maryland, I can tell
you where to have a world class experience within two hours.
If you want to go to the beaches, if you
want to go skiing, if you want to visit Farmland,
if you want to go see r O's win, tell
(20:36):
me what you want to do, and I can tell
you how to get there within two hours. And I
think about you know we are. We're the home of innovation.
We're the home of Johns. Hope's University, the home of
the NSSA, the home of NIST, the home of the
Applyed Physics Slab, the home of Fort Meade and the
Naval Academy, the home of four historically black colleges and universities.
(20:58):
We have so much to offer in the state of Maryland,
and I think it's one of the reasons that people
are so excited about the growth ejectory we're on.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So final question, how can you bottle the happiness you have?
How do you get to be so happy all the
time and smiling all the time?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Does anybody ever can make you feel bad about something?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
You know? One of the things I lean on a
lot is history, And even in really dark times or
really challenging moments, I'm a history buff and I think
about having a chance to read about one of our
most famous Marylanders, Harriet Tubman, And on my toughest days,
(21:35):
I will go back to my office in my house
and I'll read on Harriet Tubman, and then I think
to myself, what am I complaining about? Like, no matter
what kind of day I'm having, imagine having a theoretical
conversation with Harriet Tubman explaining to her how tough my
day was, when I know how tough all her days were.
(21:59):
And I think that it's important that we live life
with a sense of context, that even when times are tough,
and even when times are challenging, remember where we've come from,
Remember what is a country we've seen? Remember as a state,
what we've endured and we're still here, and that's I
(22:23):
think what continues to give me a sense of hope
and optimism because I know that, no matter what kind
of days we are having, we are our ancestors' wildest dreams.
And there's a sense of pride that I do have
in that.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
wherever you listen.
I'm in the State House of Maryland, where I just
had a conversation with Wesmore, the charismatic governor of Maryland.
He said he was definitely going to run for reelection
two years. He also said he hasn't decided whether he's
going to run for president of the United States, but
there are many people who think he'd be an excellent
candidate in four years. My conversation with him was one
of the most interesting ones I've had with any.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Governor in recent years.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You were asleep one night and somebody, I think woke
you up and said that the key Bridge was collapsing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Who woke you up? And what did you say?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
It was our fantastic chief of Staff, Fagan Harris, at
two o two in the morning called and he said,
the key Bridge is gone. And that key Bridge is
you know, it's over two miles long. It is literally
it's in the skyline of every picture of Baltimore and
it's been there since I've been born. And when I
(00:56):
said to him, I said, what do you mean gone?
And he said it collapsed. And immediately we began mobilizing.
We were on the phone with the FBI trying to
figure out was their terrorism involved. You know what exactly happened,
how many cars were on the bridge, how many people
are unaccounted for. I'll never forget that morning because immediately
(01:17):
you just saw how we had to put the state
on a state of emergency. We had to be and
begin coordinating efforts. But I'll never forget that morning.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So, as it turned out, a number of people were
working in the middle of the night on the bridge,
and I guess most of them, if not all of them,
lost their lives. And now the bridge is now going
to be repaired. Somehow you managed to get the federal
government to pay.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
For all of it by partisan support.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
So when will the bridge reopen?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It will reopen in twenty twenty eight. We will have
that bridge done.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And why is it important to Maryland and Baltimore to
have the Key bridge anyway?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Well, you know the Port of Baltimore. It really is
America's gateway. It's one of the most important, not just
maritime facilities, but just port entries that we have in
the country. Two thirds of the country get its goods
from the Port of Baltimore as its main entry point.
But there's only really three main arteries to the Port
of Baltimore. You have the Harbor Tunnel, you have you
(02:16):
have the Baltimore Tunnel, and then you have the Key Bridge.
The problem is that all has matt materials, oil, oil,
or your refinaries, et cetera. They cannot take tunnels legally,
they can only take the bridge. And so this is
having a distinct impact not just on transit and transportation,
(02:36):
but it is having a distinct impact on goods and
commerce being able to move.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So right now as we talk, there have been fires
in California. Do you have any advice for your fellow
Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom about how to handle crises like these?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean it's heartbreaking what's going on in southern California.
And I know, you know, I reached out to Gavin
as soon as I heard about happened and offered our
support and offered our resources as well, because I was
really humbled how many governors reached out to me right
after the Key Bridge and did the same. And so
that bond does matter. I think when I think about
the Key Bridge, the most important thing that we were
(03:14):
able to do was have unified command, was be able
to bring everybody on board that we were all singing
from the same sheet of music that we all had
unified goals.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
What caused the ship to collapse or crash into the bridge?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What was the cause?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Well, they're still going through that now. In fact, there's
litigation that our Attorney General has filed, and so we're
going through the process of identification. The thing that we
know is that bridges don't just collapse. There's negligence that
caused that bridge to collapse on March twenty six.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Maryland has had a reputation in this metropolitan area of
being a higher tax state than Virginia. Recently, you have
announced a three billion dollar budget gap that you're trying
to deal with, and part of it is you're increasing
taxes on wealthier people.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, but what we're doing is this, no one agrees
that the tax code makes sense in the state of Maryland,
and so I said, we've got to be able to
reform the tax code to make us more competitive and
to make taxes simpler, fare and pro growth. And so
I just announced a budget plan. And it is kind
of intuitive, but I explain to people to deal with
(04:19):
the budget deficit, the structural deficit that we inherited, we're
actually going to give two thursd of Marylanders a tax cut.
We're going to take eighty two percent of Marylanders and
say we're actually going to make sure that you pay
pay either less in taxes or there's no change. We
did not raise the sales tax, we did not raise
the income tax. We've cut the corporate tax rate in
(04:40):
the State of Maryland, and we've eliminated the inheritance tax.
And for a lot of people it did seem a
little bit odd because they're like, well, why don't you
just raise sales taxes or raise property taxes? And my
answer is this a I would have found that to
be just a lazy way of thinking because it's not reform.
We've got to reform the tax code. And the second
piece is it's not pro growth. I actually want to
(05:02):
attract businesses to come to the State of Maryland. And
that's why in our budget we have some historic adjustments
to doing regulatory reform, permitting reform, procurement reform. Actually, we've
announced an executive order focusing on government modernization, where it's
all about getting rid of the government waste, getting rid
of the unnecessary spending, doing consolidation, doing flee consolidation. It consolidation,
(05:27):
focusing on real estate, I mean, all things that we
can make get our economy going. And so that has
been the focus, is that we've got to get out
of this crisis by focusing on growth.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So, as we talk, Donald Trump is about to be
inaugurated again as President of the United States. So, as
a democratic leader and a democratic governor of Maryland, a
very democratic state, do you feel like you're a leader
of the opposition or do you feel like your job
is to cooperate with him? Or how do you view
Donald Trump as somebody that you work with or oppose.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not the leader of the resistance.
I'm the governor of Maryland. I've got six and a
half million people who I answer to, and some of
whom voted for Donald Trump, some of whom did not
vote for Donald Trump. But the thing that I know
is that the thing they all have in common is
they're Marylanders. And so the way I'm going to approach
this working with the new administration is the way that
(06:20):
I will approach working with any administration. Where I understand
how tethered Maryland is to Washington and to the federal government.
We have over one hundred and sixty thousand federal employees.
We are the home of some of the largest federal
installations in the country here in the state of Maryland.
That a lot of our infrastructure projects are being underwritten
by the federal government, to include the Key Bridge. So
(06:42):
I understand how important that relationship is, and I am
I am very clear that I will work with this
administration and find ways of finding common sense solutions that
are going to uplift Maryland, invest in Maryland, support Maryland.
I'll push back on things that I think are either
don't make sense or or unconstitutional or challenge our values.
(07:04):
But I am approaching this truly with a sense, with
a sense of partnership.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Why do you think Maryland has now become such a
liberal state, such a democratic state?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
We tell people that we are. This is the northernmost
southern state. I'm one of the only democratic southern governors
inside of the country. That the bloodiest battles of the
Civil War took place in the state of Maryland. I'm
the first black governor in the history of the state
of Maryland. That literally down the street is the docks
of the Annapolis Docks, which was one of the country's
(07:37):
first and largest slave ports. That the building we're in
right now, the state capital, was built by the hands
of enslaved people. So the dichotomy and the complexity of
this state is very real, but it's one of the
things that I take a real sense of pride in.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now, you ran for governor initially in twenty twenty two,
and we're elected overwhelmingly. You're up for reelection in twenty
two twenty six. Yes, you haven't announced yet. I don't
think that you're running.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
I can announce now I'm running for re elections.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Okay, so you're running for reelection as governor. I think
you're likely to win based on everything I known about
Maryland politics. But the question you'll be asked is are
you thinking of running as well for President of the
United States?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And the answer to that question is no.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I've got the best job around and I love the
momentum we're actually seeing in the state of Maryland. You know,
I think about when I was first elected, Maryland was
ranked forty third in the country in unemployment. Now Maryland's
going on fifteen straight months of amongst the lowest unemployment
rates in the entire country. When I was elected governor,
Maryland was in the middle of a scourge of violent crime.
(08:45):
Over an eight year period, Maryland saw our homicide rate
nearly doubled. Baltimore City had eight straight years of three
hundred plus homicides. Now Maryland has amongst the most precipitous
drops in violent crime of anywhere in the country right now.
And so I love the momentum that we're seeing here
and I want this to be Maryland's decade and I
want to lead that charge.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Suppose people come to you and say, you did a
great job as Maryland governor. You just talked about some
of the things you've done. You've been reelected overwhelmingly. The
party really needs a charismatic figure to be the leader
in the post Donald Trump era.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You would say, I would say people should pay attention
to what we're doing here in Maryland, Okay, because I
think the momentum we're seeing here in Maryland, and I know,
you know, Maryland are seemed very happy. Our numbers are
very strong here. But people seem to people understand that
the momentum we're we're having here is really big and important.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
To me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
The biggest city in the state is Baltimore. Why is
Baltimore so important to you.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
It's our state's largest city, and if your state's largest
city is not thriving, your state can't thrive. And that
is just a mathematical equation because the only way this
is going to be Maryland's decade is if it's Baltimore's time.
And so that's why we did focus on things like
being able to extend the Oriole's lease and make sure
the Oreos could be it for thirty years. It's the
reason we focus on things like the Preakness and keeping
(10:06):
the Preakness in Maryland for generations to come. While we've
invested in the Convention Center, the reason we focused on
housing and getting rid of the vacant housing, the reason
we focus on violent crime, and now Baltimore is having
among the most precipitous drop of anywhere in the country
when it comes to homicides and non fatal shootings and
carjackings and auto thefts. So if you can have Baltimore thriving,
(10:29):
your state is going to thrive.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Okay, let's talk about your background, which is quite unusual.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Where were you born.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I was born in Maryland in Tacoma Park, Maryland.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Okay, And your parents did what.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
My father was a radio journalist and my mother actually
was his assistant.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So your father died when you were only three years old.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, he died from something called acute epicatitis, which is basically,
you know the epiglottis that all of us have. It's
a flat that sits over your wind pipe and every
time you breathe and talk, and his became so swollen
that it just sat on top of his windpipe. So basically,
his body suffocated itself and he actually died in front
of me.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
And did you realize what was happening when it was
going on you're only three years old.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I did, And in fact, my mother tells a story
about how at his funeral, my uncle Vin took me
up to go see his body for the final time
in the casket, and I actually touched him and I
asked him if he was going to come with us.
So even at that time, I still had no idea
what had fully happened, and didn't really process until I
(11:34):
got older.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So you have siblings, I do.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I have an older sister and a younger sister, and
my mother had a really tough time with the transition,
and she didn't feel safe in the neighborhood she didn't
feel safe in the house, and so she called up
her parents, my grandparents.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And then you grew up there and were you a
great student? Were you're a great athlete?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I was not a great student. But what was really
interesting was that the work actually came easy to me.
The attention into detail and the interest in doing it
did not. And so by the time I was eleven
years old, I had handcuffoer risks. By the time I
was thirteen, I was kicked out of my school and
(12:13):
I was sent to a military school in Pennsylvania. So
I had a really difficult time transitioning when I was younger.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So you went to the military school and it was
sort of a college and a high school combined.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It was it was it was a junior college, so
it was a two year college and also a middle
school in a high school. That's the thing that changed
everything for me at the military school was they put
me in charge of something and I was actually accountable
to other people from my actions. And that's why I
just believed deeply in accountability because I think that's actually
(12:46):
it's one of the things I helped to save my life.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
So you went into the military, the Army, and you
were there for a year or so before you went
to Hopkins.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So I went to I was there for two I
was in two years, so I finished up. I got
my associates degree. So in fact, I want the only
governors in the country actually with a two year college degree.
That's actually this ring right here. And then I transferred
after finishing my associate's degree, and then I went to
Johns Hopkins to finish my mindorgrad.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So who told you you should apply for a Rhodes scholarship.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
It was actually actually a mutual friend of ours, Kirchmoke.
I interned with Kirchmok who at that time was the
mayor of Baltimore. And in fact, I have a picture
in my office of him pointing to a picture in
his office back when I was a young intern and
i'd hair and he was a young mayor he had hair,
and the picture he's pointing to is actually his Rhodes
(13:36):
Scholarship class. And it was in that moment that he
was telling me, I want you to apply for the
Rhodes Scholarship.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So you got a Rhodes scholarship, which is only thirty
two Americans every year get them you went to Oxford.
When you got there, did you study anything?
Speaker 3 (13:52):
I actually studied. I got my amlet or master's in
international relations, and I actually started the DFIL. So right
now I'm all by dissertation for my doctorate in international relations.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
So, usually when people finish their Rhodes scholarships and they
get degrees, or they don't get degrees, they come back
and they run for office, They go to a private
equity firm, they go to an investment banking firm, they
teach at someplace. You did something different. What did you
do after your Rhodes scholarship?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
So what was interesting? Initially? I actually went into the
world of finance. And I remember getting a phone call
from a friend of mine who was at that time
a major, and he called me, and a major in
the army, he just finished twenty Rock. He was getting
ready to deployed to Afghanistan. And he called me and
he said, when are you going to get in the fight?
(14:39):
And that was such an indicting question because he was
right that I had trained with all these people. I'd
done my airborne training, I became a paratrooper, and these
many of these people were now on their second and
third deployments and I hadn't done a single one yet,
and so I made the decision and I left. I
(15:00):
left banking, and I linked up with the eighty second
Airborne Division and we deployed to Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
How many years were you in Afghanistan?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I was there for almost a full year. I was
thankful for the people I was serving with. The eighty
second is some of the best, some of the best
and most hard charging soldiers that the Army's ever created.
And there were really hard days.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So you came back and then what did you do
when you came back?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I actually did a White House Fellowship and part of
it was was my deputy brigade commander was also a
former White House Fellow.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
After you finished your White House Fellowship, then what did
you do?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Went to City City Bank at that point, and so
then I spent about I spent closet to five years
working for City doing investment banking, doing M and A,
and also doing technology.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Okay, she did that for a number of years and
then an organization came along called robin Hood and they
said we want you to head it up. What is
Robinhood and why did you take that job?
Speaker 3 (15:56):
It's one of the nation's largest poverty fighting organizations. It
started really over thirty years ago, and it started with
an initial idea of saying, what if you could take
analytics and data the same way we take analytics and
data when we're making trading decisions when we're buying companies,
and put that towards the poverty fight.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
So, after four years at Robinhood, you decide to run
for governor of Maryland, never having run for anything else before,
Never did you think you had a chance.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
The data didn't seem to show I had a chance.
I mean I was pulling at one percent in our
first poll. I mean, I say it is true, literally,
I'm not voting, was polling higher than Wesmore. And so
the data showed I was running against statewide elected officials.
I was running against the former head of the DNC.
I was running against two cabinet secretaries. One of the
(16:50):
people I was running against was actually on my board
at Robinhood, which made board meetings very awkward. So I'm like,
I had people who were just like who were seasoned
at this. But I think I think the thing that
actually really resonated with people is that I don't come
from a political background. I don't come from a political family.
I don't do the politician thing. I don't do the
partisan thing. I just really focus on results and actually
(17:14):
meeting people where they are. And I think that actually
resonated with folks.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So when you get elected governor, do you actually say,
I'm really happy now I'm governor.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You took the job.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
In the first day you're sworn in, did you realize
that the responsibilities are much greater than you thought or
you actually thought. Wasn't that difficult a job?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
No? I mean it's a hard job because also I
think there were things that we inherited that we did
not that we didn't anticipate. You I remember coming in
and being able to re reports that you realize after
you came on board about the fiscal crisis that we
are getting ready to inherit that you know, we're currently
navigating the worst fiscal crisis that Maryland has seen in
(17:51):
twenty years. And it's something that has been predicted since
twenty and seventeen. But the problem was it wasn't dealt
with because there was COVID money, and COVID money kept
on masking the obstacles and masking the fact that our
business model in the state of Maryland was broken, and
that our economy wasn't moving. We were just so deeply
underperforming when it came to growth, whether it be the
(18:13):
way that Medicaid was being completely out of whack and
had a billion dollar expenditure that was not anticipated and
we need to see coming. There was a brokenness of
state government that I don't think we fully understood, and
so that's why our first priority had to be fixed
state government.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So what is your typical day as a governor? You
do some interviews, maybe on an interview like this, but
you are, let's say, at the beginning, every morning, is
I understand it, you go over to the Naval Academy
and you work out with the Navy midshipment, and I
mean you're a little bit older than them.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Is that a little day wouldn't know it?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I do, And honestly I love the fact that the
Naval Academy is down the street from here. And as
an army guy, I always say, I just need to
figure out who to talk to. They have that beat
army stuff all over the place.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
So you can keep up with them.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Oh yes, oh, there is no way as an army
guy there's no way I'm letting maybe smoke me.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
No way.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So I'm not going to get you to say you're
going to run for president.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I can know that.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But you are going to play a role I assume
in the Democratic Party over the next couple of years
beyond just Maryland.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I assume right, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And do you think people who are governors are more
qualified to be presidents than people who are senators?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I think. I think if people want to find inspiration,
look at the states, because we just get stuff done.
You know, we don't. We don't we don't play the
partisan game. I don't do the you know I think
about I've introduced twenty six pieces of legislation since I've
been the governor. Not only have we gone twenty six
for twenty six, We've gone twenty six for twenty six
by partisan, with both Democrat and Republican support on every
(19:46):
single bill that I've introduced. And so I would say,
if you really want to see what it means to
focus on results, because that's what I focus on. I mean,
I don't do the partisan party stuff. Results show me results.
And I think if you look at what's happening in
Maryland and if you look what's happening in the states.
I think you're going to start seeing what results look like.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
So if somebody is watching this and they're not from Maryland,
but they want to know a little bit about Maryland,
what would you encapsulate in a paragraph or two about
what people should know about the state of Maryland.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
I would say Maryland really is American miniature. You tell
me what you want to do, and no matter where
you're standing in the state of Maryland, I can tell
you where to have a world class experience within two hours.
If you want to go to the beaches, if you
want to go skiing, if you want to visit Farmland,
if you want to go see r O's win, tell
(20:36):
me what you want to do, and I can tell
you how to get there within two hours. And I
think about you know we are. We're the home of innovation.
We're the home of Johns. Hope's University, the home of
the NSSA, the home of NIST, the home of the
Applyed Physics Slab, the home of Fort Meade and the
Naval Academy, the home of four historically black colleges and universities.
(20:58):
We have so much to offer in the state of Maryland,
and I think it's one of the reasons that people
are so excited about the growth ejectory we're on.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So final question, how can you bottle the happiness you have?
How do you get to be so happy all the
time and smiling all the time?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Does anybody ever can make you feel bad about something?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
You know? One of the things I lean on a
lot is history, And even in really dark times or
really challenging moments, I'm a history buff and I think
about having a chance to read about one of our
most famous Marylanders, Harriet Tubman, And on my toughest days,
(21:35):
I will go back to my office in my house
and I'll read on Harriet Tubman, and then I think
to myself, what am I complaining about? Like, no matter
what kind of day I'm having, imagine having a theoretical
conversation with Harriet Tubman explaining to her how tough my
day was, when I know how tough all her days were.
(21:59):
And I think that it's important that we live life
with a sense of context, that even when times are tough,
and even when times are challenging, remember where we've come from,
Remember what is a country we've seen? Remember as a state,
what we've endured and we're still here, and that's I
(22:23):
think what continues to give me a sense of hope
and optimism because I know that, no matter what kind
of days we are having, we are our ancestors' wildest dreams.
And there's a sense of pride that I do have
in that.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
wherever you listen.
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