October 31, 2024 • 24 mins
Billionaire private equity investor and founder of 26North partners Josh Harris joins David Rubenstein for a special interview commemorating the 10th anniversary of "The David Rubenstein Show: Peer to Peer Conversations." In addition to his most recent project with 26North, Harris co-founded Apollo Global Management and is the owner of the NFL's Washington Commanders, the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers, the NHL's New Jersey Devils, and the English Premier League's Crystal Palace Football club. This interview was recorded October 8 in Washington DC at a Bloomberg LP event.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Josh Harris is a major figure in the investment world
and the sports world. In the investment world, he was
the co founder of Apollo, one of the largest private
credit and private equity firms in the world. As a
sports owner, he recently bought the Washington Commanders for six
billion dollars, largest price ever paid for major sports franchise
in the United States. Had a chance to sit down
with Josh Harris recently to talk about his combined life
(00:24):
as an investor and sports team owner.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Josh, for those who.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Don't know, was a co founder of Apollo, which is
one of the largest private equity and private credit firms
in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
He is now the.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Founder and managing director and CEO of a new firm
based in Miami twenty six North. And as if that
was not enough, you're also the lead partner in the
Washington Commanders.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You're also the lead.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Partner managing director for the NBA Philadelphia seventy six ers.
You're the co managing partner for the New Jersey Devils
and the National Hotsky League. And you're one of the
managing partners for the Crystal Palace English Premier Soccer team.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And is that all anything? Today?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You bought anything else today, married with five kids, okay,
and witness harder five kids from getting married or all.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The other things. It's all very rewarding. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So let's talk about your new firm, twenty six North.
Where did you get that name from?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So it's a funny story.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I hired a branding agency and spent a lot of money,
and then they came up with five horrible names, and
I threw all those in the trash and named it myself.
So I when I left Apollo, I didn't I wasn't
necessarily going to start another alternatives firm, but I realized that,
you know, the big firms had built, you know, Carlisle
(01:47):
amongst them, Apollo, black Stone, KKRTPG had built these incredible
investing ecosystems, but many of them had gotten so big
and become public companies, and they were sort of the
beta of alls.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
They're so big that they need to, you know, get
into very big areas pools of capital.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
And what had been left a little bit behind was Alpha,
you know, really being the alpha of alts, you know.
And so we decided that we could bring I decided
that I could create a firm that had big firm
capabilities that had all the trappings of a big firm.
In our case, it's an integrated platform with debt and insurance,
(02:26):
and it's an alpha creation team led by someone who
left mackenzie incredible talent, and apply it against the middle market,
in the upper middle market and deal with a lot
more alignment where I'm the largest investor and everyone who's
joining is not necessarily getting paid as much cash they might,
but they're really going to benefit if the investors benefit.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
How much money have you raised and put into the
firm so far?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's gone really well.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
We're at twenty three billion after twenty four months, which is,
you know, beyond my wildest expectation. We have one hundred
and twenty five people, and you know, it's an amazing culture,
amazing people. People really jumped on the bandwagon and now
we're I'm hard at work trying to create alpha. So
in sports, you create, you have to create memories and
(03:12):
win for the city. And in alternatives, investigators, you know,
it's about returns. It's about alpha for retirees and pensioners.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I think that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
To raise that kind of money, you had to go
out and I guess ask people for money.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So how did you do that? With all the sports teams?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I spent a lot of time flying around. I mean literally,
I have a mobile office.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It's it's a plan.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So you've already announced two deals, one just recently, one
about a week or so ago. What we're so attractive
about those deals?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Private AQ was going through a bit of a transition
where multiple values are peaked and they're on their way down,
and so some of the returns haven't been as good
and so we're benefiting from that.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And so to a certain extent, we're buying really.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Good businesses at much better pricing than others have in
the past. So we're able to buy really good businesses,
one in the fitness area and one creates electrical systems
for data centers and stadiums, and we're buying them at
seven times So unlike the sixty times cash flow, we're
(04:12):
paying seven times cash. And that might compare to the
industry that's paying ten or eleven times cash.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So our strategy is to buy.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Good businesses and kind of find those opportunities that are
misvalued for some reason or another.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So as you make investments, Now, are you worried about
the geopolitical events around the world, what's going on in Israel, Daza, Ukraine, Russia, China, Taiwan,
or you don't pay that much attention to that.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Look, you have to pay attention to that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I mean, I mean obviously, right now, we have a
market at all tim has and we have an economy
that is cranking inflation. The Federal Reserve has done a
good job of finding that.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
They call it goldilocks. Not too hot, not too cold.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Inflation's coming down, but unemployment's low, and so things are
pretty good and price is aggressive for the most part.
The markets are at all time peak, pe multiples are
very closed. So you've got to be cognizant that a
geopolitical event can knock everything on its side, and so
you have to just be careful, right, and you have
(05:13):
to plan. Okay, what happens if oil price is spike? Right,
that could be an outcome. For example, what happens if
you know Israel were to you know, attack around So.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
As we talk, we're getting close to the next presidential election.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yes, we are so heard about that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Do you think it will make a difference to your
investment approach if one party wins versus another party, or
one party controls the Congress versus somebody controlling the White House.
How do you look at the election impacting your business.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
The way we look at it that is, it's like
a fifty to fifty election. I mean, you can go
look at some betting sites and it's a real toss up.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So it's really hard to predict. I think we have
to be ready for every environment.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Certainly there are different ranks and weaknesses. If you have
a candidate that is more regulatory oriented, that might affect
certain industries like energy or healthcare Differently, the antitrust policy
could be different.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
That could affect acquisitions.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
So you have to think about all that and just
be prepared for it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think that if there's no.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Outcome, clear outcome could create some violatility that might be
a buying opportunity.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So I think we think.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
About all of it, and we plan for all of it,
but then we get ready to pivot one way or another,
and we make sure the stuff we're doing now is
very robust, that it maybe has less leverage, that it's
more sustainable under any scenario that could come out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So do you get involved in the campaign. You're not
a donor, you're not a supporter. You just stay out
of it.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You get involved with politics in many cases, I fans
that are you know, on both sides of the aisle, right,
so it becomes controversial, and sports are supposed to bring
people together.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And so I keep my opinions to myself.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Really, I stay out of politics, and I'm pretty don't.
I don't get involved, even though I mean obviously I care.
I care about the world, but it's like my my
ability to create impact is through these platforms, and so
that sort of keeps me out of politics.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Let's go back to your youth.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You were you were born in this area, and you
grew up in Bethesda, grew up in Chevy Chase, Chevy
Chase Beesda Chevy Chase Cherry, which is I don't know, okay, So, uh,
you went to high school and then you went to here,
and then you went to Penn, right. And while you
said you weren't you know, a great academic or something,
(07:32):
you graduated Summa cum Cloudy.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So you must have been pretty good.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yes, I got I got better as I was on.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
So my dad had gone to Penn and also I
was a wrestler and they had a wrestling team and
so I started talking to the coach, and so I
kind of got into Penn even though I probably was
an aspirational candidate for Ben that was my highest shot.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But did you wrestle with Penn?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I did?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Then what did you do right after your graduation?
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I went to Drexel, which was a storied investment bank
that was Michael Milken and Direxel was I always liked
in my career.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I always fought I always.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Went to aspirationally what I felt was where I could
get the best experience with the smartest people. So I
was there nineteen o six to nineteen eighty. It was
killing it. And then I've had one business school Harvard,
and I said, look, if I am blessed to get
into Harvard, I know I read the book like we
don't learn in Harvard Physical and I was like, if
I can get into this place, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And I went, and then what.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Did you do?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So then I, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I felt that private equity was I wanted to be
involved with companies versus just being at a bank, and
private equity seemed like the way to get the most
responsibility and was where all the smartest people were going
and I joined this five year old young firm called Blackstone.
I went there and three months into it, you know,
(08:53):
Drexel went out of business and I got a call
from Mark Rowan, who had been the star he did Drexel,
who I'd work with, and he said, look, we're starting
up this firm. And initially I was like, eh, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know, you guys just went out of business.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
But we I decided to follow him and Leon black
and I joined Pollow, which had twelve people.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
At that point.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
All right, so you started helped to start that firm.
You're one of the co founders and you were there
for how many years before you left? Thirty two years, okay,
and you were the head of private equity, and so.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I started off.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I mean literally there was only twelve people, so we
all were just doing.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
But at the end you were leading the private equity.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
So I was leading private equity, and then I was
running the firm.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So the firm went public.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
What happens in the investing businesses, you get kicked upstairs,
and so ultimately, you know, it became the three of
us formed an executive committee and we were running the firm,
and I was running the firm day to day and.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You joined the firm. How many people did Apollo House well?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And now it has a market cap of eighty billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Seventy and eighty billion dollars depending on the day. So
it's you know, I'm very proud of it. I mean,
I'm still very large shoulder, and you know, it was
a great thing to have created, and you know now
to be able to you know, have a second act,
which is twenty six North, but also with sports with
the Commanders, uh, you know, and I and I and
(10:15):
I sort of think what I do here in Washington
is a very big deal, even though Pile has been
a very big deal. So this is you know, you know,
really important to my legacy.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
When you bought the Washington Commanders, people were a gas
that the price you paid it was six billion dollars.
No team in the United States had ever been sold
for that. I'm not sure any team in the world
ever been sold for six billion dollars. Were you shocked
at the price that you had to pay and did
you have any second thoughts about it? Or now that
other teams seem to be valued even higher than that
(10:47):
as they sell off pieces to private equity firms. Do
you think you got a bargain, And.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
So at the time I would have preferred to pay
less we had, and so I joked at my credentials
as a value us there were shattered. We paid the
highest price in the history of the world for our
sports team, but that was quickly a surpassed. But you know,
I had a long run vision that the NFL was
the dominant was a dominant sport in the world, that
(11:13):
it would you know, the media rights would continue to
appreciate as global.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Audiences flooded in.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I felt that there would be upward pressure on values. Also,
you know, was aware that the NFL was considering letting
and private equity alternative forms of capital. And so for
all those reasons, I felt that that people would look
back on it and say it was a good deal.
And it's proven as such. I mean, obviously you mentioned
that the current values.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
A couple of rumors out.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
There that that numbers starting with an eight billion will
be invested for teams, and I think those are true rumors.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So the team you inherited wasn't doing that well. I
think it's fair to say the team is now four
and one four and one let's go and you have
a star quarterback drafted, the Heisman Trophy winner for last year.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
He's done extremely well.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So what's the greatest thrill buying a team in your
own hometown, being there to cheer the players on. You
go into the locker rooms and tell them win one
for the Gipper or something like that.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You try to avoid they've heard every speech.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
But look, I think for me personally, the elation.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
That you feel, I mean, obviously it's you know, I've
been very blessed to be involved with a lot of
successes in the business world. But the elation you feel
being part of a crowd when the team wins, being
amongst the fans, you know, that's really something special and
it's a shared experience. It's a community, and it's amazing
(12:45):
being bolved with. So being I'd say, of all the things, Look, obviously,
owning a team in your hometown is incredible.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
When you started buying these teams, you started buying the
seventy six ers first, and you paid a price that
seemed reasonably.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
High for people at that time.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Two hundred eighty million, while okay, two hundred eighty million today,
these NFL, these NBA franchises are four or five billion
or more. So what did people say to you when
you were at Apollo. You're running the private equity business
and you say, by the way, guys, I'm going to
go buy a basketball team. Did your partners say why
are you doing that? And did your investors say you
(13:23):
shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
My partners at Apollo were sort of like.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Just don't let this interfere with your day job.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
They were very supportive of it at that time, you know, investors,
you know, I think initially there were they scratched their head.
But what happened was they realized that it wasn't interfering
with my day job. I was how focused I was
a pole continue to flourish, and they realized that there
is a synergy. Like you learn a lot about life
(13:51):
in sports. You learn a lot about being a steward
and culture and people and so over time, you know,
as I went on this journey, everyone was supportive.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Hey, well, I thought you made a commitment at the
time that you would attend every home game or every game.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So how did you manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, so there are eighty two basketball games. I never
made it. I certainly when you own.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
First of all, I've never missed a football game so
since I've owned the team, So keep going home or away.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
There's less of those.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
But now, look, I think if you if you are
the managing partner of a team, and really for me
it's these two teams, because I have partners that handle
the other teams and I'm more of an investor. I'd
say that you have to be present. You have to
be You're accountable to the city. They people want to
see you there. The players notice, you know if you're there,
(14:46):
and you know, people want to make sure that you're
aware of your present, you're watching. They don't want you
to be overly involved, at least I don't think you
should be.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And so you got to be at a lot of games.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And for me, some people play golf, some people played
ten as I work and I go to sports and.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Hang out with my family.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So now you have a football team, a basketball team,
a hockey team, a soccer team. Are you done or
are you thinking about a baseball team or something else.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I'm pretty good right now.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I'm focused on winning in Washington and winning in Philly
and support you know, in basketball, winning and Washington football.
And then letting my partners in London and in Newark,
David Blitzer and Stephen Parrish. Okay, you know win in
New Jersey and London.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I go to two or three.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I do go to a few football matches as a
European football matches. I love it, but mostly watching on
TV and then go as many high games I can.
But right now I got my focus on these two
teams and my business and my family.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
When you own a sports team, U, let's suppose the
team isn't going to win that game, can't win every game?
And do you think you can leave early or as
the owner, you know people are watching. I always wonder
can you leave early or you have to wait till
the bitter round.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I think you can leave early unless you really I
think you have to stay there and you have look,
I think lose. You're part of the fabric of the team,
right and you're there with the players. And I mean, listen,
if you really have to leave earlier. But I'm saying,
as a rule, you're there, right, You're there.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Winner lives.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You're not gonna win every game, and so like if
you leave right then you then then what's the message
in that?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
So I think you're there till the end, you know,
and and you're there after the game, you know, with.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Them, and then you leave, you know, once Winter lose. Well,
it's a lot funner when you win, believe me. I mean,
you go on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
You watch the Commanders locker room, they.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Have some of it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
When we win, I mean it's insane how excited everyone is.
And when they lose, you know, people aren't very happy.
So I think that, but you just have to be
there as part of that fabric. And and by the way,
everyone does it differently, That's why I do it.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And the Washington Commanders have been playing in a stadium
that was built by two previous owners two times ago.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I guess it was under Jack ken Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So are you going to have a new stadium sometime
soon and where you want to put it?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, so we're we're committed to doing that. I mean,
obviously just put eighty million in the old stadium because
it really need needed some work, and it needs more work,
and we're fixing things as fast as we can. But
at the end of the day, a modern stadium and
where the premium is situated, and how the Wi Fi
is set up, and where the field is real to
the seats and a lot of different things.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
You can only go so far with an older stamps.
So we'd like to build a new stadium.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Obviously you need support support of whatever jurisdiction you build
it in.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
UH.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
The first part of that is a community dialogue, and
we're having those dialogues in DC, We're having those dialogues
in Maryland and and you know where we play UH,
and so we're focused on building a new stadium. We're
in the first part of those dialogues, and we've got
to get the communities and the politicians rallied behind us.
And in the case of DC, right the most likely
(17:53):
thing is RFK obviously where we all grew up going
football games, and that is currently owned by the federal government,
is controlled by the Federal Garment. So we've got to
get that back to DC and then DC can decide
what it wants to do.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But that right now is what we're working on.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
What do you do for philanthropy? Do you have a foundation,
what do you do? What are your areas of interest?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yes, I have a foundation.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Obviously, what I'm interested in is, look, people paid it
forward for me.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
My thing is is three things.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
One is intergenerational wealth transferred, so going into communities and
need and then not just giving money away, but teaching,
you know, getting people jobs, getting people educated, or helping
them get their own jobs and create enough money where
they can then create a path for their own kids,
(18:44):
for their own family, they can have pride in their
own environment. We backed a company called Mosaic and Philly.
It's a black owned, black lead development firm. They build
in tough areas, they build affordable housing and supermarket. They
put a supermarket into a food desert. They're also building.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Here in the DC area. And then it's about the
power of sports.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So like you know, obviously the sports changed my life,
Wrestling change my life, and I want everyone's kids to
have the same opportunity of my kids, you to play sports,
to experience sports. So whether it's my personal foundation where
we back a lot of programs, Police Athletic League, After
School All Stars, America Scores, but you know the high schools,
(19:24):
no one can forward sports programs, and so allowing kids
to play sports and experience that in the discipline and
the camaraderie that comes with that, you know, that's a
big part of what we do.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So how do you compare the thrill of making a
great investment at say at Apollo or now in your
new firm twenty six North with winning a sports event
or winning a championship.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I used to.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
I feel a great sense of pride when I would
exit an investment.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
I mean I would sit there and I would think.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
About it, and I would think about what had happened
and lives that have been changed, and.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I would have a glow.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
But the euphoria have a big when just the absolute
high emotional state you get into the immediacy of that
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So the private equity world has a lot of big
names and big egos, and the sports world has a
lot of big names of big egos. Where are the
egos bigger in sports or in private equity?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I would say that it's there. They're big on both
in both places.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
But you know, in terms of look, I think sports
is more public, right the public gets to know the
people bigger. I think private equity is you know, you know,
it's it's more under wraps, if you will.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So, like when you're in a restaurant in Washington, Yes
or Philadelphia, does anybody ever come up to you and
say you did a great deal on Apollo to congratulations,
or they say that you to play this player or
a Treeftis player. What do you get more of that
when you're about the sports than the private.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
This is an incredible thing.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
So you say, line up, Usel has you know, thousands
of us We had fifteen twenty thousand players.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
We had companies that had.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Sixty seven I think we used to say we had
you know, two hundred.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Maybe thousand employees across our.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Portfolio, and then we had millions of beneficiarias. And so
what you're doing, you're touching a lot of lives as
an investor, as an entrepreneur building these these firms.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
But on the other hand, like no one cares about
the price of price of polypropylene.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
No one cares, And everyone cares about the starting lineup
of the Washington Commanders or the Sixers, and like you
can't now people come up to me all the time
and it's not about alternatives, right, It's about sports.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And so the.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Impact on the public at large in terms of the psyche,
and you know, the feeling in the city is so different.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It'suppose somebody is watching this and say I want to
be like Josh Harris, I want to own sports teams,
be a financial success.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What is the key to success?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Is it wrestling as a young person or what is
it that makes somebody uh into you? How would you
what advice would you give to your own children or
other people who want to be like you.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, I think that it's about excellence and so being
whatever you do a you have to enjoy it. And
I think it's about being all in. I think it's
go big or go home. It's like an all in
mentality where you know, like I said, you know, you're
only on earth for a little bit, so you know,
throw it on. I tell my kids that, you know,
(22:15):
unfortunately ages sixteen to thirty, right, those are your fun at.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You know, I look back on those and even though.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
I mean, obviously I'm very blessed, I'm very grateful for
my life. You know, the maximum fun you have is
in those years that those are really fun times. But
on the other hand, you know, you're building your own narrative.
You're building you.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Know, your story, right, and so you got to bring it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's got to be work hard and play hard, and
so yeah, there'll be times where you have to stay
up and you can't go out with your friends and
you've got to like get the a's. And so I
think it's about excellence. It's about doing things you like.
And then I think it's about making smart decisions. And
I look at every decision I've made. When I decided
to leave Blackstone to go to Apollo, that was a risk, right,
(22:56):
and I felt that I weigh it like and investment.
I treat it my choices as an investment. I think
who you marry is a critical decision. So I mean,
obviously that's maybe the most important decision your life. So
these big decisions, you know, really take a step back.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
However, you do it right down the pluses and the minuss.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Think about it as risk return and investment, and make
wise choices.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And you think that you'll win a super Bowl next
year or this year or how long before.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No proclamations. All I can tell. All I can say is.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
That I am going to put my all into making
this an elite team, and we're going to create a
lot of shots at winning a super Bowl, and we're
going to do our best.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know, if you get a call from Joe Embiid,
your star player, and you've got a same simultaneous call
from one of your children. Which call do you take first?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I'll pick on my son really quick. Okay, can I
call you back? I'm all with TWE.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
wherever you listen
Speaker 3 (24:10):
M
Josh Harris is a major figure in the investment world
and the sports world. In the investment world, he was
the co founder of Apollo, one of the largest private
credit and private equity firms in the world. As a
sports owner, he recently bought the Washington Commanders for six
billion dollars, largest price ever paid for major sports franchise
in the United States. Had a chance to sit down
with Josh Harris recently to talk about his combined life
(00:24):
as an investor and sports team owner.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Josh, for those who.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Don't know, was a co founder of Apollo, which is
one of the largest private equity and private credit firms
in the world.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
He is now the.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Founder and managing director and CEO of a new firm
based in Miami twenty six North. And as if that
was not enough, you're also the lead partner in the
Washington Commanders.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
You're also the lead.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Partner managing director for the NBA Philadelphia seventy six ers.
You're the co managing partner for the New Jersey Devils
and the National Hotsky League. And you're one of the
managing partners for the Crystal Palace English Premier Soccer team.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
And is that all anything? Today?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You bought anything else today, married with five kids, okay,
and witness harder five kids from getting married or all.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
The other things. It's all very rewarding. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
So let's talk about your new firm, twenty six North.
Where did you get that name from?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So it's a funny story.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I hired a branding agency and spent a lot of money,
and then they came up with five horrible names, and
I threw all those in the trash and named it myself.
So I when I left Apollo, I didn't I wasn't
necessarily going to start another alternatives firm, but I realized that,
you know, the big firms had built, you know, Carlisle
(01:47):
amongst them, Apollo, black Stone, KKRTPG had built these incredible
investing ecosystems, but many of them had gotten so big
and become public companies, and they were sort of the
beta of alls.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
They're so big that they need to, you know, get
into very big areas pools of capital.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
And what had been left a little bit behind was Alpha,
you know, really being the alpha of alts, you know.
And so we decided that we could bring I decided
that I could create a firm that had big firm
capabilities that had all the trappings of a big firm.
In our case, it's an integrated platform with debt and insurance,
(02:26):
and it's an alpha creation team led by someone who
left mackenzie incredible talent, and apply it against the middle market,
in the upper middle market and deal with a lot
more alignment where I'm the largest investor and everyone who's
joining is not necessarily getting paid as much cash they might,
but they're really going to benefit if the investors benefit.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
How much money have you raised and put into the
firm so far?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's gone really well.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
We're at twenty three billion after twenty four months, which is,
you know, beyond my wildest expectation. We have one hundred
and twenty five people, and you know, it's an amazing culture,
amazing people. People really jumped on the bandwagon and now
we're I'm hard at work trying to create alpha. So
in sports, you create, you have to create memories and
(03:12):
win for the city. And in alternatives, investigators, you know,
it's about returns. It's about alpha for retirees and pensioners.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So I think that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
To raise that kind of money, you had to go
out and I guess ask people for money.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So how did you do that? With all the sports teams?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I spent a lot of time flying around. I mean literally,
I have a mobile office.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
It's it's a plan.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So you've already announced two deals, one just recently, one
about a week or so ago. What we're so attractive
about those deals?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Private AQ was going through a bit of a transition
where multiple values are peaked and they're on their way down,
and so some of the returns haven't been as good
and so we're benefiting from that.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And so to a certain extent, we're buying really.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Good businesses at much better pricing than others have in
the past. So we're able to buy really good businesses,
one in the fitness area and one creates electrical systems
for data centers and stadiums, and we're buying them at
seven times So unlike the sixty times cash flow, we're
(04:12):
paying seven times cash. And that might compare to the
industry that's paying ten or eleven times cash.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So our strategy is to buy.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Good businesses and kind of find those opportunities that are
misvalued for some reason or another.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So as you make investments, Now, are you worried about
the geopolitical events around the world, what's going on in Israel, Daza, Ukraine, Russia, China, Taiwan,
or you don't pay that much attention to that.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Look, you have to pay attention to that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I mean, I mean obviously, right now, we have a
market at all tim has and we have an economy
that is cranking inflation. The Federal Reserve has done a
good job of finding that.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
They call it goldilocks. Not too hot, not too cold.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Inflation's coming down, but unemployment's low, and so things are
pretty good and price is aggressive for the most part.
The markets are at all time peak, pe multiples are
very closed. So you've got to be cognizant that a
geopolitical event can knock everything on its side, and so
you have to just be careful, right, and you have
(05:13):
to plan. Okay, what happens if oil price is spike? Right,
that could be an outcome. For example, what happens if
you know Israel were to you know, attack around So.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
As we talk, we're getting close to the next presidential election.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yes, we are so heard about that.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Do you think it will make a difference to your
investment approach if one party wins versus another party, or
one party controls the Congress versus somebody controlling the White House.
How do you look at the election impacting your business.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
The way we look at it that is, it's like
a fifty to fifty election. I mean, you can go
look at some betting sites and it's a real toss up.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
So it's really hard to predict. I think we have
to be ready for every environment.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Certainly there are different ranks and weaknesses. If you have
a candidate that is more regulatory oriented, that might affect
certain industries like energy or healthcare Differently, the antitrust policy
could be different.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
That could affect acquisitions.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
So you have to think about all that and just
be prepared for it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think that if there's no.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Outcome, clear outcome could create some violatility that might be
a buying opportunity.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So I think we think.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
About all of it, and we plan for all of it,
but then we get ready to pivot one way or another,
and we make sure the stuff we're doing now is
very robust, that it maybe has less leverage, that it's
more sustainable under any scenario that could come out.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So do you get involved in the campaign. You're not
a donor, you're not a supporter. You just stay out
of it.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You get involved with politics in many cases, I fans
that are you know, on both sides of the aisle, right,
so it becomes controversial, and sports are supposed to bring
people together.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And so I keep my opinions to myself.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Really, I stay out of politics, and I'm pretty don't.
I don't get involved, even though I mean obviously I care.
I care about the world, but it's like my my
ability to create impact is through these platforms, and so
that sort of keeps me out of politics.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Let's go back to your youth.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
You were you were born in this area, and you
grew up in Bethesda, grew up in Chevy Chase, Chevy
Chase Beesda Chevy Chase Cherry, which is I don't know, okay, So, uh,
you went to high school and then you went to here,
and then you went to Penn, right. And while you
said you weren't you know, a great academic or something,
(07:32):
you graduated Summa cum Cloudy.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
So you must have been pretty good.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Yes, I got I got better as I was on.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
So my dad had gone to Penn and also I
was a wrestler and they had a wrestling team and
so I started talking to the coach, and so I
kind of got into Penn even though I probably was
an aspirational candidate for Ben that was my highest shot.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
But did you wrestle with Penn?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I did?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Then what did you do right after your graduation?
Speaker 4 (07:56):
I went to Drexel, which was a storied investment bank
that was Michael Milken and Direxel was I always liked
in my career.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
I always fought I always.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Went to aspirationally what I felt was where I could
get the best experience with the smartest people. So I
was there nineteen o six to nineteen eighty. It was
killing it. And then I've had one business school Harvard,
and I said, look, if I am blessed to get
into Harvard, I know I read the book like we
don't learn in Harvard Physical and I was like, if
I can get into this place, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
And I went, and then what.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Did you do?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So then I, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I felt that private equity was I wanted to be
involved with companies versus just being at a bank, and
private equity seemed like the way to get the most
responsibility and was where all the smartest people were going
and I joined this five year old young firm called Blackstone.
I went there and three months into it, you know,
(08:53):
Drexel went out of business and I got a call
from Mark Rowan, who had been the star he did Drexel,
who I'd work with, and he said, look, we're starting
up this firm. And initially I was like, eh, I'm good.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
You know, you guys just went out of business.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
But we I decided to follow him and Leon black
and I joined Pollow, which had twelve people.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
At that point.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
All right, so you started helped to start that firm.
You're one of the co founders and you were there
for how many years before you left? Thirty two years, okay,
and you were the head of private equity, and so.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I started off.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
I mean literally there was only twelve people, so we
all were just doing.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
But at the end you were leading the private equity.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
So I was leading private equity, and then I was
running the firm.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
So the firm went public.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
What happens in the investing businesses, you get kicked upstairs,
and so ultimately, you know, it became the three of
us formed an executive committee and we were running the firm,
and I was running the firm day to day and.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
You joined the firm. How many people did Apollo House well?
Speaker 1 (09:52):
And now it has a market cap of eighty billion dollars.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Seventy and eighty billion dollars depending on the day. So
it's you know, I'm very proud of it. I mean,
I'm still very large shoulder, and you know, it was
a great thing to have created, and you know now
to be able to you know, have a second act,
which is twenty six North, but also with sports with
the Commanders, uh, you know, and I and I and
(10:15):
I sort of think what I do here in Washington
is a very big deal, even though Pile has been
a very big deal. So this is you know, you know,
really important to my legacy.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
When you bought the Washington Commanders, people were a gas
that the price you paid it was six billion dollars.
No team in the United States had ever been sold
for that. I'm not sure any team in the world
ever been sold for six billion dollars. Were you shocked
at the price that you had to pay and did
you have any second thoughts about it? Or now that
other teams seem to be valued even higher than that
(10:47):
as they sell off pieces to private equity firms. Do
you think you got a bargain, And.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
So at the time I would have preferred to pay
less we had, and so I joked at my credentials
as a value us there were shattered. We paid the
highest price in the history of the world for our
sports team, but that was quickly a surpassed. But you know,
I had a long run vision that the NFL was
the dominant was a dominant sport in the world, that
(11:13):
it would you know, the media rights would continue to
appreciate as global.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Audiences flooded in.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
I felt that there would be upward pressure on values. Also,
you know, was aware that the NFL was considering letting
and private equity alternative forms of capital. And so for
all those reasons, I felt that that people would look
back on it and say it was a good deal.
And it's proven as such. I mean, obviously you mentioned
that the current values.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
A couple of rumors out.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
There that that numbers starting with an eight billion will
be invested for teams, and I think those are true rumors.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So the team you inherited wasn't doing that well. I
think it's fair to say the team is now four
and one four and one let's go and you have
a star quarterback drafted, the Heisman Trophy winner for last year.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
He's done extremely well.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So what's the greatest thrill buying a team in your
own hometown, being there to cheer the players on. You
go into the locker rooms and tell them win one
for the Gipper or something like that.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
You try to avoid they've heard every speech.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
But look, I think for me personally, the elation.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
That you feel, I mean, obviously it's you know, I've
been very blessed to be involved with a lot of
successes in the business world. But the elation you feel
being part of a crowd when the team wins, being
amongst the fans, you know, that's really something special and
it's a shared experience. It's a community, and it's amazing
(12:45):
being bolved with. So being I'd say, of all the things, Look, obviously,
owning a team in your hometown is incredible.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
When you started buying these teams, you started buying the
seventy six ers first, and you paid a price that
seemed reasonably.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
High for people at that time.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Two hundred eighty million, while okay, two hundred eighty million today,
these NFL, these NBA franchises are four or five billion
or more. So what did people say to you when
you were at Apollo. You're running the private equity business
and you say, by the way, guys, I'm going to
go buy a basketball team. Did your partners say why
are you doing that? And did your investors say you
(13:23):
shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
My partners at Apollo were sort of like.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Just don't let this interfere with your day job.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
They were very supportive of it at that time, you know, investors,
you know, I think initially there were they scratched their head.
But what happened was they realized that it wasn't interfering
with my day job. I was how focused I was
a pole continue to flourish, and they realized that there
is a synergy. Like you learn a lot about life
(13:51):
in sports. You learn a lot about being a steward
and culture and people and so over time, you know,
as I went on this journey, everyone was supportive.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Hey, well, I thought you made a commitment at the
time that you would attend every home game or every game.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So how did you manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, so there are eighty two basketball games. I never
made it. I certainly when you own.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
First of all, I've never missed a football game so
since I've owned the team, So keep going home or away.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
There's less of those.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
But now, look, I think if you if you are
the managing partner of a team, and really for me
it's these two teams, because I have partners that handle
the other teams and I'm more of an investor. I'd
say that you have to be present. You have to
be You're accountable to the city. They people want to
see you there. The players notice, you know if you're there,
(14:46):
and you know, people want to make sure that you're
aware of your present, you're watching. They don't want you
to be overly involved, at least I don't think you
should be.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And so you got to be at a lot of games.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And for me, some people play golf, some people played
ten as I work and I go to sports and.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Hang out with my family.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So now you have a football team, a basketball team,
a hockey team, a soccer team. Are you done or
are you thinking about a baseball team or something else.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I'm pretty good right now.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I'm focused on winning in Washington and winning in Philly
and support you know, in basketball, winning and Washington football.
And then letting my partners in London and in Newark,
David Blitzer and Stephen Parrish. Okay, you know win in
New Jersey and London.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I go to two or three.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
I do go to a few football matches as a
European football matches. I love it, but mostly watching on
TV and then go as many high games I can.
But right now I got my focus on these two
teams and my business and my family.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
When you own a sports team, U, let's suppose the
team isn't going to win that game, can't win every game?
And do you think you can leave early or as
the owner, you know people are watching. I always wonder
can you leave early or you have to wait till
the bitter round.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I think you can leave early unless you really I
think you have to stay there and you have look,
I think lose. You're part of the fabric of the team,
right and you're there with the players. And I mean, listen,
if you really have to leave earlier. But I'm saying,
as a rule, you're there, right, You're there.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Winner lives.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You're not gonna win every game, and so like if
you leave right then you then then what's the message
in that?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Right?
Speaker 4 (16:17):
So I think you're there till the end, you know,
and and you're there after the game, you know, with.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Them, and then you leave, you know, once Winter lose. Well,
it's a lot funner when you win, believe me. I mean,
you go on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
You watch the Commanders locker room, they.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Have some of it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
When we win, I mean it's insane how excited everyone is.
And when they lose, you know, people aren't very happy.
So I think that, but you just have to be
there as part of that fabric. And and by the way,
everyone does it differently, That's why I do it.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And the Washington Commanders have been playing in a stadium
that was built by two previous owners two times ago.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I guess it was under Jack ken Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So are you going to have a new stadium sometime
soon and where you want to put it?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, so we're we're committed to doing that. I mean,
obviously just put eighty million in the old stadium because
it really need needed some work, and it needs more work,
and we're fixing things as fast as we can. But
at the end of the day, a modern stadium and
where the premium is situated, and how the Wi Fi
is set up, and where the field is real to
the seats and a lot of different things.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
You can only go so far with an older stamps.
So we'd like to build a new stadium.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Obviously you need support support of whatever jurisdiction you build
it in.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
UH.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
The first part of that is a community dialogue, and
we're having those dialogues in DC, We're having those dialogues
in Maryland and and you know where we play UH,
and so we're focused on building a new stadium. We're
in the first part of those dialogues, and we've got
to get the communities and the politicians rallied behind us.
And in the case of DC, right the most likely
(17:53):
thing is RFK obviously where we all grew up going
football games, and that is currently owned by the federal government,
is controlled by the Federal Garment. So we've got to
get that back to DC and then DC can decide
what it wants to do.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
But that right now is what we're working on.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
What do you do for philanthropy? Do you have a foundation,
what do you do? What are your areas of interest?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yes, I have a foundation.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
Obviously, what I'm interested in is, look, people paid it
forward for me.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
My thing is is three things.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
One is intergenerational wealth transferred, so going into communities and
need and then not just giving money away, but teaching,
you know, getting people jobs, getting people educated, or helping
them get their own jobs and create enough money where
they can then create a path for their own kids,
(18:44):
for their own family, they can have pride in their
own environment. We backed a company called Mosaic and Philly.
It's a black owned, black lead development firm. They build
in tough areas, they build affordable housing and supermarket. They
put a supermarket into a food desert. They're also building.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Here in the DC area. And then it's about the
power of sports.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So like you know, obviously the sports changed my life,
Wrestling change my life, and I want everyone's kids to
have the same opportunity of my kids, you to play sports,
to experience sports. So whether it's my personal foundation where
we back a lot of programs, Police Athletic League, After
School All Stars, America Scores, but you know the high schools,
(19:24):
no one can forward sports programs, and so allowing kids
to play sports and experience that in the discipline and
the camaraderie that comes with that, you know, that's a
big part of what we do.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So how do you compare the thrill of making a
great investment at say at Apollo or now in your
new firm twenty six North with winning a sports event
or winning a championship.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I used to.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
I feel a great sense of pride when I would
exit an investment.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
I mean I would sit there and I would think.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
About it, and I would think about what had happened
and lives that have been changed, and.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I would have a glow.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
But the euphoria have a big when just the absolute
high emotional state you get into the immediacy of that
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So the private equity world has a lot of big
names and big egos, and the sports world has a
lot of big names of big egos. Where are the
egos bigger in sports or in private equity?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I would say that it's there. They're big on both
in both places.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
But you know, in terms of look, I think sports
is more public, right the public gets to know the
people bigger. I think private equity is you know, you know,
it's it's more under wraps, if you will.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
So, like when you're in a restaurant in Washington, Yes
or Philadelphia, does anybody ever come up to you and
say you did a great deal on Apollo to congratulations,
or they say that you to play this player or
a Treeftis player. What do you get more of that
when you're about the sports than the private.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
This is an incredible thing.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
So you say, line up, Usel has you know, thousands
of us We had fifteen twenty thousand players.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
We had companies that had.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Sixty seven I think we used to say we had
you know, two hundred.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Maybe thousand employees across our.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Portfolio, and then we had millions of beneficiarias. And so
what you're doing, you're touching a lot of lives as
an investor, as an entrepreneur building these these firms.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
But on the other hand, like no one cares about
the price of price of polypropylene.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
No one cares, And everyone cares about the starting lineup
of the Washington Commanders or the Sixers, and like you
can't now people come up to me all the time
and it's not about alternatives, right, It's about sports.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And so the.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Impact on the public at large in terms of the psyche,
and you know, the feeling in the city is so different.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Right.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It'suppose somebody is watching this and say I want to
be like Josh Harris, I want to own sports teams,
be a financial success.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What is the key to success?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Is it wrestling as a young person or what is
it that makes somebody uh into you? How would you
what advice would you give to your own children or
other people who want to be like you.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, I think that it's about excellence and so being
whatever you do a you have to enjoy it. And
I think it's about being all in. I think it's
go big or go home. It's like an all in
mentality where you know, like I said, you know, you're
only on earth for a little bit, so you know,
throw it on. I tell my kids that, you know,
(22:15):
unfortunately ages sixteen to thirty, right, those are your fun at.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
You know, I look back on those and even though.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
I mean, obviously I'm very blessed, I'm very grateful for
my life. You know, the maximum fun you have is
in those years that those are really fun times. But
on the other hand, you know, you're building your own narrative.
You're building you.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Know, your story, right, and so you got to bring it.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's got to be work hard and play hard, and
so yeah, there'll be times where you have to stay
up and you can't go out with your friends and
you've got to like get the a's. And so I
think it's about excellence. It's about doing things you like.
And then I think it's about making smart decisions. And
I look at every decision I've made. When I decided
to leave Blackstone to go to Apollo, that was a risk, right,
(22:56):
and I felt that I weigh it like and investment.
I treat it my choices as an investment. I think
who you marry is a critical decision. So I mean,
obviously that's maybe the most important decision your life. So
these big decisions, you know, really take a step back.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
However, you do it right down the pluses and the minuss.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Think about it as risk return and investment, and make
wise choices.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
And you think that you'll win a super Bowl next
year or this year or how long before.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
No proclamations. All I can tell. All I can say is.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
That I am going to put my all into making
this an elite team, and we're going to create a
lot of shots at winning a super Bowl, and we're
going to do our best.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You know, if you get a call from Joe Embiid,
your star player, and you've got a same simultaneous call
from one of your children. Which call do you take first?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
I'll pick on my son really quick. Okay, can I
call you back? I'm all with TWE.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
wherever you listen
Speaker 3 (24:10):
M
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