January 23, 2025 • 22 mins
For many football fans, Roger Goodell is the only NFL Commissioner they’ve known, with the 65-year-old now in his 19th year at the helm of America’s most popular pro sport. In an episode of “The David Rubenstein Show: Peer to Peer Conversations,” Goodell talks about NFL’s international expansion, and that adding an 18th game to the regular season schedule is the “logical” next step for the league. He also discussed the NFL allowing private equity firms to take passive minority stakes in teams. There’s been some fan backlash on this move, but Goodell tried to ease those concerns, saying he doesn’t think he’ll “ever allow institutional [investors] in a controlling position, at least in the foreseeable future.” This interview was recorded January 3 in New York.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm in the headquarters of the National Football League, where
I've just had a chance to interview the commissioner of
the NFL, Roger Goodell, who's now serving his nineteenth year
as commissioner, and had a chance to talk with him
about issues like international expansion, the popularity of the NFL,
and practice private equity firms are now being allowed to
invest in the NFL. So today, the NFL is by
(00:22):
far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or
league in the world, revenue of about twenty billion dollars
or so last year, and every team seems to be profitable.
The television ratings are very good. What do you think
makes the NFL so popular?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It always starts with the game, David.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think the game is one of the greatest games,
if not the greatest game in the world. The competition
is extraordinary, the players, the coaching, Our games are never
been closer in history, and I think it brings people
together and it does.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well on media.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I think the television experience is as great as as
anything in television. I think being in the stadiums better,
but I think we're fortunate to have a great product. Second,
I'd say the business model. I think we have a
tremendous business model. I think when you look at the
key aspects of revenue sharing and a salary cap that
(01:25):
we've designed with our players, that we have something that
I think makes every team competitive and I think that's unusual,
and they have the finances to be competitive, and I
think that's an important element that people overlook. And I
think it also is just a it's a statement you
know better than I do. You're a great investor, and
(01:46):
you know this business better than I do. I think
it's a statement on the potential success for Polistically going
forward to had a.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Number of games overseas in recent years, and in fact,
you opened the season going to the opening game in Brazil. Oh,
so do you expect to do more overseas games and
is that a part of your strategy?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
We had five last year, we expect to have eight
this year, which will be the highest we've ever had.
Our hope would be at some stage to get to
sixteen games in the next few years.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We think we can do that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I think it's an indication of the popularity of our
game every time we take our game to a new market.
Brazil is a great example of it. The fans go
crazy for it. They sold out the tickets in less
than ninety minutes. People had a wonderful time. It was
the talk of the town, and I think it will
be the basis in the sort of the match that
lights the excitement and the popularity of the game in
(02:41):
that market, as well as what we're doing around the world.
So we're very excited by it. It's just one element
of that strategy. You need to have television, you need
to have activity and participation of the sport, and flight
football is a big part of that. So all of
those factors I think are going to be what we
think will be a very successful formula to be a
(03:01):
global sport.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Or do you ever envision having a team that's based
overseas in Mexico City or in London.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Listen, We've talked awful lot about it, and I think
there are markets that could, without question support in an
NFL franchise. I think there's a lot of issues with
expansion of our league that we have to debate on
that one. You know, additional teams. We have thirty two now,
we think that's a really good number for the NFL.
(03:29):
But also I think we would probably look at it
potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams.
You have a lot of issues with a team that's
in let's say Europe and having to travel over playing games,
and teams going back over to Europe to play. I
think the competitive issues still need to be worked out.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
All the Super Bowls have been held in the United States,
and they had more than fifty of them so far.
Do you ever envision a time when a Super Bowl
will be held in a city not in the United States?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Always, I think had super Bowl in a city that
has a franchise, and I think that's sort of the
core principle that we've had. I think if we have
an international franchise, I definitely see that happening. I think
as we become global, that'll be something that as we
have international franchises, that would be logical.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So let's talk about one of the franchises.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Recently, a team was sold for six billion dollars i'd
say about a year ago or so Washington Commanders, for
a price that nobody never thought a sports franchise in
United States would reach six billion dollars. Were you surprised
the price was that high?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
No, I think one that's a franchise that growing up
in Washington I probably have deeper emotional feelings for. But
that's a franchise and a great market, and we believe
that it's going to be a tremendous success there, and
I think Josh Harrison his Limited investors are going to
(04:58):
do a great job. I'm not at all surprised that
they got to that price.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Recently, the NFL allowed private equity firms, including mine, to
invest in NFL teams in minority stakes. I think up
to ten percent, and a number of these have already
been done. In fact, I think valuations are above the
six billion dollar level that the commanders received. I think
some of the minority stake investments are at least eight
billion dollar valuations. So why did you let the bad
(05:24):
guys known as the private equity people into the tent
and why have you capped it at ten percent?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
One letting the bad guys in, we really feel like
there are things that you all can teach us a
little bit about our business and maybe help us think
about it a little differently. As you know that ten
percent positions a silent position. We believe very strongly in
the fact that We like the principal owner approach that
we've had for years and other sports have had successfully.
(05:52):
So we want to make sure that the controlling owner
is the one that makes the decisions on behalf of
the club, both at the league level and at the
club level.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But do you ever envision a time at a sovereign
wealth fund could invest directly in a minority stake in
the team.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I don't think will ever allow institutional in a controlling position,
at least in the foreseeable future. Again, I think we
feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is
there operating the franchise, responsible for that both in the
club level as well.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
As the league level.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
On television, is that the case that somebody that only
subscribes the basic cable can still watch on any of
his teams or her team's home games or what are
the rules? It's very complicated as to what is you
have to pay for what you don't have to pay
for today? What is the basic rule that makes it
possible for somebody to watch the NFL game for their
home team.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, David I would say, in the NFL, it's about
as simple as it gets. We're committed to free television
for the home teams the home markets, so not just
the home team, but the visiting team. They will get
their game on free television.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
In other words, everybody who wants to watch their home
team can watch it on basic television for free.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So now you have the other packages where people want
to watch special games or games not their home team,
they then sign up for Netflix package or something else
like that.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
We have a few games that are on pay service,
but we still are close to ninety percent of our
games are on free television for everybody, and I think
that is something we're incredibly proud of, and I think
it's led to the popularity of our game because people
can access it and we give them opportunities to see
those games. We have a limited number of packages, whether
(07:37):
it's ESPN or whether it's Netflix or Amazon or YouTube
or ESPN Plus or our own network where we have
I think it's roughly thirty five games that are available
and those are pay services of some type, and they've
been incredibly successful. We just had a Christmas Day game
(07:57):
with Netflix, two games that averaged over thirty million people
on a global basis, and those audiences are younger. We're
seeing that on some of these new services, and as
you know, the media business is changing, and so it's
our responsibility to make sure we do what's right the
best interest of our game, to partner where we can
(08:18):
bring more fans into the game. And so I think
we have a nice balance, but we're still very reliant
on our original partners, who are never partners.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And what about the Taylor Swift effect. Some people say
that Taylor Swift is bringing more fans in because they
want to watch her watch games, and other people say
that she's getting as much attention as her I guess
there a boyfriend who's a player for one of the teams,
the Kansas City Chiefs. So has had any impact on
the NFL or not really that much.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No, I think it has had a positive impact. Listen,
the most important thing is that two young people, Travis
Kelsey and Taylor Swift, seem to have a wonderful relationship
and they're both incredible people, which I've had good fortune
of getting to know.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
But we just wish them well.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But as far as what it's done, I think, you know,
it's brought more interest into our game.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Taylor Swift is.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
One of the greatest entertainers in the world today and
I think has a tremendous following, and the fact that
she likes football, I think intrigues other people and causes
them to, you know, be interested in the game.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's all good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Now in the United States, the biggest sporting event every
year is the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
What is super Bowl Week like for you?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You have to kind of go go to the city,
You have to deal with everybody, You have to be
polite to everybody. You can't get upset with everything. But
is it just a lot of tension in that that weekend?
Do you make the decision on what city you're going
to have the super Bowl in and who the entertainment's
going to be.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Let's start with the selection of it, because it usually
happens five years out. It's actually a process we go
through to select the super Bowl city. The owners ultimately
vote on that and select that city, and then our
staff works with that city for roughly five years to
get ready for the super Bowl. Super Bowl Week is
(10:10):
gotten bigger, It starts earlier. It now starts on Monday
night with a big media event, and it's an incredible
event that we think is a celebration of football on
a global basis, it's a hard week because you're pushed
in a lot of different directions. But I couldn't be
more honored or more privileged to do it. And it's excitement.
(10:33):
And when we have two hundred million people watching the
super Bowl, which is what the number was, that's an
extraordinary impact and extraordinarily event that you have a lot
of responsibilities to pull that off successfully.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So do you get people who say they knew you're
from high school calling up asking for Super Bowl tickets
from time to time or you never get that?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I get that a few times.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yes, you wrote a letter to Pete Roselle when you
were in college asking for an internship. This was in
the early nineteen eighties, and he responded, I guess positively
because you got an internship. Have you ever thought in
your wildest imaginations, what would have happened had he not
responded positively and where you might be today?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, he was kind, I don't know about positive. They
get a lot of letters and a lot of interest
in becoming an intern. It pushed it off to his
executive director. I think it was close to fifty three
letters later when I got the internship. I see, so
it wasn't an immediate response and you've got a job.
(11:38):
It took almost a year before that happened. But I
have no idea what I'd be doing today if it
wasn't being here at the NFL.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So you didn't have any idea of doing something important
like private equity if you hadn't gotten into the guys.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Too smart for me, David, I doubt that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So to people that are watching now and say, what
did he put in his letter that was so persuasive
to get an internship at the NFL, What did you
say that future people that want to write letters to
people like you should put in their letter.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, I have a copy of it actually over there,
but I would say it wasn't what was written in
the letter. I think it was the fact that I
wrote fifty three times. At one point, the executive director said,
if you're ever in New York, come by, and I said, well,
I happen to be in New York. He said, well,
can you come buy at eight o'clock? I said, of course.
(12:31):
The problem I was in Pittsburgh, so I drove all
night to get there. And I think you just have
to take advantage of your opportunities and distinguish yourself in
some ways of what you deeply what you're deeply passionate about,
and what you think you can create value for someone.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where
were you born.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Jamestown, New York. I grew up in Washington, d c.
Though Jamestown, New York. And what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
My mother was a nurse. My father was a politician.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
He was a congressman who was appointed by Nelson Rockefeller
at one point to succeed the assassinated Robert F. Kennedy,
and he became a Senator. Is that right? That's nineteen
sixty eight. And then your family moved to Washington then
or you were We moved to Washington at fifty nine
when I was born, actually so he could serve in Congress.
So people may not remember this, but your father was
(13:26):
very famous because he had appointed as a moderate Republican
by Nelson Rockefeller, also a Republican, and then he opposed
the war in Vietnam under Richard Nixon and then the
Johnson I guess as well, and that became very difficult
for him politically because many Republicans at that time wanted
(13:47):
to support let's say Richard Nixon and didn't feel that
a Republican opposed the Vietnam War was a good Republican,
let's put it that way. So was that difficult for
you or you're proud of your father had done at
the time, because many people were younger at the we're
against the Vietnam War.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Well, I couldn't be proud of my father and the
courage you took for him to do something that he
knew was the right thing to do. It wasn't popular,
and he knew at the time that he would likely
lose his seat and lose the election, but he did
it anyhow. And I think when we were young, he
actually gathered us around I'm one of five boys with
(14:22):
my mother and father and said, I'm going to do this,
but I will likely lose the election.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But that was a lesson that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Stays with me to this day, that you have to
do the right things, regardless of the consequences.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So let's go back to your growing up. You grew
up in Washington, but then you moved back to New
York after he lost the election, and then you went
back to where did you live afterwards, Broxville, New York. Bronxville,
and then you went to high school in Bronxville. Yes,
and you were a three sports star, as I understand it,
you were in football, basketball, and baseball and the captain
(14:59):
of all all three of those teams in your high school.
So she went to Washington Jefferson College in Pennsylvania. Yes,
and when you graduated, then you wrote your famous letter
to the NFL. But what were you doing when you
were waiting to hear back.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
From the NFL.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Were you doing, you know, working in a McDonald's or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I took some time after the summer after after I graduated,
and I focused on what I wanted to do. I eventually,
because I did not hear back from the NFL in
a positive way until I think February of the year
after I graduated, I worked in the steel industry.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Briefly.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I worked for Jones and Lachlan Steel, which was a
good experience for me in a management training program.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So eventually you get the job of the NFL you
worked for. Then the commissioner was Pete Rosel, who was
the longest serving commissioner. You're the second longest serving I guess,
is that right? I think that may be true. I
hadn't thought about that. So Pete Rosel, who was the
person who helped orchestrate he became commission, was only thirty
three years old and when the AFL and the NFL
(16:05):
came together.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So what were you actually doing in the early years.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Well, I was an intern in the public relations department,
so I did a little bit of everything, and I
guess maybe my two big breaks for the Jets at
once point needed an intern late in the preseason, and
they asked if I wanted to go over and do that,
and so I had a chance to be with the
Jets for one season, and it was a remarkable experience
(16:29):
for me to be on the club level and understand
what they go through, you know it it's different than
what we do in the league level, and it was
incredibly valuable experience.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But I went back after the season.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I was actually asked by one of the coaches, the
defensive coordinator Joe Gardy, just stay and be an assistant coach,
and I decided I want to go back to the NFL.
Even though I didn't really have an opportunity there. I
was still an intern for another year and a half.
I thought it was the right thing and what I
wanted to do. Roselle was a hero of mine and
I wanted to work for him, and I loved I
(17:03):
thought the NFL played a really important role in society
and had a great future.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So we ever thought of you'd stayed with the Jets,
you could one day have become a football coach at
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I could have.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I probably wouldn't be with the Jets anymore after that,
as you know, their tenure doesn't last very long.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So I think I made the right choice. David.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So in two thousand and six you became the commissioner, Yes,
and so now people are probably wondering what does the
commissioner actually do. It's a great title, the commissioner, but
it's an awkward position in a sense that you're employed
by the owners, but you have to sometimes penalize the
employers if they do something wrong. You have to find
(17:41):
them sometimes and sometimes they're not happy with you. How
does that work when you have to please the people
who are your employers, but also sometimes you have to
find them.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well, I always say, just don't get twenty four owners
in one day pissed off at you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That's one thing, right.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
But I think the real issue here is, yes, you're
hired by the owners, they select you. But I think
the commissioner's ultimate role is to protect the integrity of
the game and to grow the game, and that happens
by balancing a lot of interest, including players and coaches
(18:20):
and owners and partners and the general public and our fans.
There Ultimately, you work for all of them, and that's
how I look at this job. I look at this
job as I have responsibility to each one of them
to make sure that we secure this game for the future,
that we put the best product on the field, and
(18:41):
that our game continues to grow in a.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Way that I think people are proud of.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And so the thing I'm most proud of is not
just the quality of the game, but the fact that
the NFL has become the big tent that brings people together,
and ultimately, I think I think it's one of the
few things it does bring people together in today's society.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So when you're a sports fan, one of the pleasures
of being a sports fan is you get the root
for your team. But you can't root for anybody, I assume, right.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I always say, and this is true. I root for
the team. It's behind, okay, and the officials.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But when you're in a game, how many games do
you typically go to it a year?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Roughly twenty five to thirty, Right.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So when you go to a game, everybody's watching you.
You can't when somebody does a great plague, you can't
jump up and say great, because you're rooting for one
team if you do that. So how do you sit
there kind of passively watching a games.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Well, I'm okay with rooting for a great play because
that's what we look to see, right, That's one of
the things people come for, is a great play.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't root for a specific team.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And do you ever go in the locker rooms and
talk to the players or see the players or you
try to avoid that?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No, I try to see them, probably well before the game.
When you're getting ready for a football game and you're
in the locker room, the last person you want to
see as a commissioner. So I choose carefully when I
see them. But I spend a lot of time talking
and communicating with players. I think it's important to understand
their perspective. They're incredibly smart and passionate about the game
(20:12):
and have a really important perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That is important for us to hear. So on the commissioner.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
When you're dealing with players, you have to find them
sometimes too, is that awkward to find them? And you're
sometimes you had to find I think or not a fine,
but you had to deal with Tom Brady and the
famous deflateon gate issue.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
The policies and the rules of the league are paramount,
and so whether it's an owner, whether it's a club executive,
whether it's a player, whether it's a coach. If there
are violations, you deal with that with discipline, whether that's
fine and or suspensions ultimately, and it's important that you
be thoughtful on that. It's not my favorite part of
(20:54):
the job, and thankfully it's a small part of my job.
But when I first came into this position, it was
clear that we needed to make some changes with respect
to enforcement of our policies, particularly off the field, because
they reflect on every single player, or every single coach,
or every single club.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And our fans.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And so we wanted to raise that bar and we
wanted to make sure the great people who played this game,
coach this game, and are involved with this game, we're
meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So would you recommend to people that they aspire to
become commissioner because that's such a great job, or you
say not for another ten years or so.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Should somebody wanted to commissioned? No, I encourage it, as
a matter of fact. I've met several people. But I think, listen,
there's a timeframe and how long you do this job.
And I think you know, as you said, Peter Roseill
did this twenty nine years. I'm nineteen now, there'll be
a time when it's needed to be a change that's
(21:55):
in the best interest in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And that's an important thing. When you're very young. You're
too young to president of the United States. Presidents are
in their late seventies these days, and you're just sixty five.
I guess so you've got a ways to go. You've
signed a new contract. I think that extends your term
through twenty twenty seven. So have you thought about anything
past there? Or it's too early to say?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
No, I have a full day. It takes up a
lot of my focus and thoughts. That's where I keep it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You can subscribe and Download my podcast on Spotify, Apple,
or wherever you listen
I'm in the headquarters of the National Football League, where
I've just had a chance to interview the commissioner of
the NFL, Roger Goodell, who's now serving his nineteenth year
as commissioner, and had a chance to talk with him
about issues like international expansion, the popularity of the NFL,
and practice private equity firms are now being allowed to
invest in the NFL. So today, the NFL is by
(00:22):
far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or
league in the world, revenue of about twenty billion dollars
or so last year, and every team seems to be profitable.
The television ratings are very good. What do you think
makes the NFL so popular?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It always starts with the game, David.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think the game is one of the greatest games,
if not the greatest game in the world. The competition
is extraordinary, the players, the coaching, Our games are never
been closer in history, and I think it brings people
together and it does.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Well on media.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
I think the television experience is as great as as
anything in television. I think being in the stadiums better,
but I think we're fortunate to have a great product. Second,
I'd say the business model. I think we have a
tremendous business model. I think when you look at the
key aspects of revenue sharing and a salary cap that
(01:25):
we've designed with our players, that we have something that
I think makes every team competitive and I think that's unusual,
and they have the finances to be competitive, and I
think that's an important element that people overlook. And I
think it also is just a it's a statement you
know better than I do. You're a great investor, and
(01:46):
you know this business better than I do. I think
it's a statement on the potential success for Polistically going
forward to had a.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Number of games overseas in recent years, and in fact,
you opened the season going to the opening game in Brazil. Oh,
so do you expect to do more overseas games and
is that a part of your strategy?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
It is.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
We had five last year, we expect to have eight
this year, which will be the highest we've ever had.
Our hope would be at some stage to get to
sixteen games in the next few years.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We think we can do that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I think it's an indication of the popularity of our
game every time we take our game to a new market.
Brazil is a great example of it. The fans go
crazy for it. They sold out the tickets in less
than ninety minutes. People had a wonderful time. It was
the talk of the town, and I think it will
be the basis in the sort of the match that
lights the excitement and the popularity of the game in
(02:41):
that market, as well as what we're doing around the world.
So we're very excited by it. It's just one element
of that strategy. You need to have television, you need
to have activity and participation of the sport, and flight
football is a big part of that. So all of
those factors I think are going to be what we
think will be a very successful formula to be a
(03:01):
global sport.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Or do you ever envision having a team that's based
overseas in Mexico City or in London.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Listen, We've talked awful lot about it, and I think
there are markets that could, without question support in an
NFL franchise. I think there's a lot of issues with
expansion of our league that we have to debate on
that one. You know, additional teams. We have thirty two now,
we think that's a really good number for the NFL.
(03:29):
But also I think we would probably look at it
potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams.
You have a lot of issues with a team that's
in let's say Europe and having to travel over playing games,
and teams going back over to Europe to play. I
think the competitive issues still need to be worked out.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
All the Super Bowls have been held in the United States,
and they had more than fifty of them so far.
Do you ever envision a time when a Super Bowl
will be held in a city not in the United States?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Always, I think had super Bowl in a city that
has a franchise, and I think that's sort of the
core principle that we've had. I think if we have
an international franchise, I definitely see that happening. I think
as we become global, that'll be something that as we
have international franchises, that would be logical.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So let's talk about one of the franchises.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Recently, a team was sold for six billion dollars i'd
say about a year ago or so Washington Commanders, for
a price that nobody never thought a sports franchise in
United States would reach six billion dollars. Were you surprised
the price was that high?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
No, I think one that's a franchise that growing up
in Washington I probably have deeper emotional feelings for. But
that's a franchise and a great market, and we believe
that it's going to be a tremendous success there, and
I think Josh Harrison his Limited investors are going to
(04:58):
do a great job. I'm not at all surprised that
they got to that price.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Recently, the NFL allowed private equity firms, including mine, to
invest in NFL teams in minority stakes. I think up
to ten percent, and a number of these have already
been done. In fact, I think valuations are above the
six billion dollar level that the commanders received. I think
some of the minority stake investments are at least eight
billion dollar valuations. So why did you let the bad
(05:24):
guys known as the private equity people into the tent
and why have you capped it at ten percent?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
One letting the bad guys in, we really feel like
there are things that you all can teach us a
little bit about our business and maybe help us think
about it a little differently. As you know that ten
percent positions a silent position. We believe very strongly in
the fact that We like the principal owner approach that
we've had for years and other sports have had successfully.
(05:52):
So we want to make sure that the controlling owner
is the one that makes the decisions on behalf of
the club, both at the league level and at the
club level.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
But do you ever envision a time at a sovereign
wealth fund could invest directly in a minority stake in
the team.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I don't think will ever allow institutional in a controlling position,
at least in the foreseeable future. Again, I think we
feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is
there operating the franchise, responsible for that both in the
club level as well.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
As the league level.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
On television, is that the case that somebody that only
subscribes the basic cable can still watch on any of
his teams or her team's home games or what are
the rules? It's very complicated as to what is you
have to pay for what you don't have to pay
for today? What is the basic rule that makes it
possible for somebody to watch the NFL game for their
home team.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, David I would say, in the NFL, it's about
as simple as it gets. We're committed to free television
for the home teams the home markets, so not just
the home team, but the visiting team. They will get
their game on free television.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
In other words, everybody who wants to watch their home
team can watch it on basic television for free.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So now you have the other packages where people want
to watch special games or games not their home team,
they then sign up for Netflix package or something else
like that.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
We have a few games that are on pay service,
but we still are close to ninety percent of our
games are on free television for everybody, and I think
that is something we're incredibly proud of, and I think
it's led to the popularity of our game because people
can access it and we give them opportunities to see
those games. We have a limited number of packages, whether
(07:37):
it's ESPN or whether it's Netflix or Amazon or YouTube
or ESPN Plus or our own network where we have
I think it's roughly thirty five games that are available
and those are pay services of some type, and they've
been incredibly successful. We just had a Christmas Day game
(07:57):
with Netflix, two games that averaged over thirty million people
on a global basis, and those audiences are younger. We're
seeing that on some of these new services, and as
you know, the media business is changing, and so it's
our responsibility to make sure we do what's right the
best interest of our game, to partner where we can
(08:18):
bring more fans into the game. And so I think
we have a nice balance, but we're still very reliant
on our original partners, who are never partners.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
And what about the Taylor Swift effect. Some people say
that Taylor Swift is bringing more fans in because they
want to watch her watch games, and other people say
that she's getting as much attention as her I guess
there a boyfriend who's a player for one of the teams,
the Kansas City Chiefs. So has had any impact on
the NFL or not really that much.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
No, I think it has had a positive impact. Listen,
the most important thing is that two young people, Travis
Kelsey and Taylor Swift, seem to have a wonderful relationship
and they're both incredible people, which I've had good fortune
of getting to know.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
But we just wish them well.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But as far as what it's done, I think, you know,
it's brought more interest into our game.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Taylor Swift is.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
One of the greatest entertainers in the world today and
I think has a tremendous following, and the fact that
she likes football, I think intrigues other people and causes
them to, you know, be interested in the game.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
That's all good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Now in the United States, the biggest sporting event every
year is the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
What is super Bowl Week like for you?
Speaker 1 (09:31):
You have to kind of go go to the city,
You have to deal with everybody, You have to be
polite to everybody. You can't get upset with everything. But
is it just a lot of tension in that that weekend?
Do you make the decision on what city you're going
to have the super Bowl in and who the entertainment's
going to be.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Let's start with the selection of it, because it usually
happens five years out. It's actually a process we go
through to select the super Bowl city. The owners ultimately
vote on that and select that city, and then our
staff works with that city for roughly five years to
get ready for the super Bowl. Super Bowl Week is
(10:10):
gotten bigger, It starts earlier. It now starts on Monday
night with a big media event, and it's an incredible
event that we think is a celebration of football on
a global basis, it's a hard week because you're pushed
in a lot of different directions. But I couldn't be
more honored or more privileged to do it. And it's excitement.
(10:33):
And when we have two hundred million people watching the
super Bowl, which is what the number was, that's an
extraordinary impact and extraordinarily event that you have a lot
of responsibilities to pull that off successfully.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So do you get people who say they knew you're
from high school calling up asking for Super Bowl tickets
from time to time or you never get that?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah, I get that a few times.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yes, you wrote a letter to Pete Roselle when you
were in college asking for an internship. This was in
the early nineteen eighties, and he responded, I guess positively
because you got an internship. Have you ever thought in
your wildest imaginations, what would have happened had he not
responded positively and where you might be today?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, he was kind, I don't know about positive. They
get a lot of letters and a lot of interest
in becoming an intern. It pushed it off to his
executive director. I think it was close to fifty three
letters later when I got the internship. I see, so
it wasn't an immediate response and you've got a job.
(11:38):
It took almost a year before that happened. But I
have no idea what I'd be doing today if it
wasn't being here at the NFL.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
So you didn't have any idea of doing something important
like private equity if you hadn't gotten into the guys.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Too smart for me, David, I doubt that.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So to people that are watching now and say, what
did he put in his letter that was so persuasive
to get an internship at the NFL, What did you
say that future people that want to write letters to
people like you should put in their letter.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, I have a copy of it actually over there,
but I would say it wasn't what was written in
the letter. I think it was the fact that I
wrote fifty three times. At one point, the executive director said,
if you're ever in New York, come by, and I said, well,
I happen to be in New York. He said, well,
can you come buy at eight o'clock? I said, of course.
(12:31):
The problem I was in Pittsburgh, so I drove all
night to get there. And I think you just have
to take advantage of your opportunities and distinguish yourself in
some ways of what you deeply what you're deeply passionate about,
and what you think you can create value for someone.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where
were you born.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Jamestown, New York. I grew up in Washington, d c.
Though Jamestown, New York. And what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
My mother was a nurse. My father was a politician.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
He was a congressman who was appointed by Nelson Rockefeller
at one point to succeed the assassinated Robert F. Kennedy,
and he became a Senator. Is that right? That's nineteen
sixty eight. And then your family moved to Washington then
or you were We moved to Washington at fifty nine
when I was born, actually so he could serve in Congress.
So people may not remember this, but your father was
(13:26):
very famous because he had appointed as a moderate Republican
by Nelson Rockefeller, also a Republican, and then he opposed
the war in Vietnam under Richard Nixon and then the
Johnson I guess as well, and that became very difficult
for him politically because many Republicans at that time wanted
(13:47):
to support let's say Richard Nixon and didn't feel that
a Republican opposed the Vietnam War was a good Republican,
let's put it that way. So was that difficult for
you or you're proud of your father had done at
the time, because many people were younger at the we're
against the Vietnam War.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Well, I couldn't be proud of my father and the
courage you took for him to do something that he
knew was the right thing to do. It wasn't popular,
and he knew at the time that he would likely
lose his seat and lose the election, but he did
it anyhow. And I think when we were young, he
actually gathered us around I'm one of five boys with
(14:22):
my mother and father and said, I'm going to do this,
but I will likely lose the election.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
But that was a lesson that.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Stays with me to this day, that you have to
do the right things, regardless of the consequences.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
So let's go back to your growing up. You grew
up in Washington, but then you moved back to New
York after he lost the election, and then you went
back to where did you live afterwards, Broxville, New York. Bronxville,
and then you went to high school in Bronxville. Yes,
and you were a three sports star, as I understand it,
you were in football, basketball, and baseball and the captain
(14:59):
of all all three of those teams in your high school.
So she went to Washington Jefferson College in Pennsylvania. Yes,
and when you graduated, then you wrote your famous letter
to the NFL. But what were you doing when you
were waiting to hear back.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
From the NFL.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Were you doing, you know, working in a McDonald's or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I took some time after the summer after after I graduated,
and I focused on what I wanted to do. I eventually,
because I did not hear back from the NFL in
a positive way until I think February of the year
after I graduated, I worked in the steel industry.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Briefly.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
I worked for Jones and Lachlan Steel, which was a
good experience for me in a management training program.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
So eventually you get the job of the NFL you
worked for. Then the commissioner was Pete Rosel, who was
the longest serving commissioner. You're the second longest serving I guess,
is that right? I think that may be true. I
hadn't thought about that. So Pete Rosel, who was the
person who helped orchestrate he became commission, was only thirty
three years old and when the AFL and the NFL
(16:05):
came together.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
So what were you actually doing in the early years.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Well, I was an intern in the public relations department,
so I did a little bit of everything, and I
guess maybe my two big breaks for the Jets at
once point needed an intern late in the preseason, and
they asked if I wanted to go over and do that,
and so I had a chance to be with the
Jets for one season, and it was a remarkable experience
(16:29):
for me to be on the club level and understand
what they go through, you know it it's different than
what we do in the league level, and it was
incredibly valuable experience.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
But I went back after the season.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I was actually asked by one of the coaches, the
defensive coordinator Joe Gardy, just stay and be an assistant coach,
and I decided I want to go back to the NFL.
Even though I didn't really have an opportunity there. I
was still an intern for another year and a half.
I thought it was the right thing and what I
wanted to do. Roselle was a hero of mine and
I wanted to work for him, and I loved I
(17:03):
thought the NFL played a really important role in society
and had a great future.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
So we ever thought of you'd stayed with the Jets,
you could one day have become a football coach at
the NFL.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I could have.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I probably wouldn't be with the Jets anymore after that,
as you know, their tenure doesn't last very long.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
So I think I made the right choice. David.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
So in two thousand and six you became the commissioner, Yes,
and so now people are probably wondering what does the
commissioner actually do. It's a great title, the commissioner, but
it's an awkward position in a sense that you're employed
by the owners, but you have to sometimes penalize the
employers if they do something wrong. You have to find
(17:41):
them sometimes and sometimes they're not happy with you. How
does that work when you have to please the people
who are your employers, but also sometimes you have to
find them.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well, I always say, just don't get twenty four owners
in one day pissed off at you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That's one thing, right.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
But I think the real issue here is, yes, you're
hired by the owners, they select you. But I think
the commissioner's ultimate role is to protect the integrity of
the game and to grow the game, and that happens
by balancing a lot of interest, including players and coaches
(18:20):
and owners and partners and the general public and our fans.
There Ultimately, you work for all of them, and that's
how I look at this job. I look at this
job as I have responsibility to each one of them
to make sure that we secure this game for the future,
that we put the best product on the field, and
(18:41):
that our game continues to grow in a.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Way that I think people are proud of.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And so the thing I'm most proud of is not
just the quality of the game, but the fact that
the NFL has become the big tent that brings people together,
and ultimately, I think I think it's one of the
few things it does bring people together in today's society.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
So when you're a sports fan, one of the pleasures
of being a sports fan is you get the root
for your team. But you can't root for anybody, I assume, right.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I always say, and this is true. I root for
the team. It's behind, okay, and the officials.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But when you're in a game, how many games do
you typically go to it a year?
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Roughly twenty five to thirty, Right.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
So when you go to a game, everybody's watching you.
You can't when somebody does a great plague, you can't
jump up and say great, because you're rooting for one
team if you do that. So how do you sit
there kind of passively watching a games.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Well, I'm okay with rooting for a great play because
that's what we look to see, right, That's one of
the things people come for, is a great play.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I don't root for a specific team.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And do you ever go in the locker rooms and
talk to the players or see the players or you
try to avoid that?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No, I try to see them, probably well before the game.
When you're getting ready for a football game and you're
in the locker room, the last person you want to
see as a commissioner. So I choose carefully when I
see them. But I spend a lot of time talking
and communicating with players. I think it's important to understand
their perspective. They're incredibly smart and passionate about the game
(20:12):
and have a really important perspective.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
That is important for us to hear. So on the commissioner.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
When you're dealing with players, you have to find them
sometimes too, is that awkward to find them? And you're
sometimes you had to find I think or not a fine,
but you had to deal with Tom Brady and the
famous deflateon gate issue.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
The policies and the rules of the league are paramount,
and so whether it's an owner, whether it's a club executive,
whether it's a player, whether it's a coach. If there
are violations, you deal with that with discipline, whether that's
fine and or suspensions ultimately, and it's important that you
be thoughtful on that. It's not my favorite part of
(20:54):
the job, and thankfully it's a small part of my job.
But when I first came into this position, it was
clear that we needed to make some changes with respect
to enforcement of our policies, particularly off the field, because
they reflect on every single player, or every single coach,
or every single club.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
And our fans.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And so we wanted to raise that bar and we
wanted to make sure the great people who played this game,
coach this game, and are involved with this game, we're
meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So would you recommend to people that they aspire to
become commissioner because that's such a great job, or you
say not for another ten years or so.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Should somebody wanted to commissioned? No, I encourage it, as
a matter of fact. I've met several people. But I think, listen,
there's a timeframe and how long you do this job.
And I think you know, as you said, Peter Roseill
did this twenty nine years. I'm nineteen now, there'll be
a time when it's needed to be a change that's
(21:55):
in the best interest in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And that's an important thing. When you're very young. You're
too young to president of the United States. Presidents are
in their late seventies these days, and you're just sixty five.
I guess so you've got a ways to go. You've
signed a new contract. I think that extends your term
through twenty twenty seven. So have you thought about anything
past there? Or it's too early to say?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
No, I have a full day. It takes up a
lot of my focus and thoughts. That's where I keep it.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You can subscribe and Download my podcast on Spotify, Apple,
or wherever you listen
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