November 26, 2025 • 48 mins
Disclaimer: We are not professionals. This podcast is opinioned based and from life experience. This is for entertainment purposes only. Opinions helped by our guests may not reflect our own. But we love a good conversation.
In this episode of the 2 Be Better Podcast, we sit down with men’s rights advocate Chloe Roma to unpack the modern “gender war,” men’s mental health, and how online hate culture like the “kill all men” trend reshaped her life and purpose. Chloe shares her personal story of growing up watching her father be emotionally abused, how social media exposed her to extreme misandry, and why she decided she “couldn’t stay quiet anymore.” Together we dive into men’s advocacy, the men’s suicide crisis, childhood trauma, adoption, the impact of domineering mothers, and the very real cost she’s paid for speaking up, including being doxxed, threatened, and pushed to a near-fatal suicide attempt.
You’ll also hear a raw conversation about modern feminism, double standards between men and women, and how pornography addiction, OnlyFans culture, and early exposure to explicit content are rewiring an entire generation. We talk about the crucial role of wives and mothers in a man’s life, how women can become powerful advocates for their husbands and sons, why body shaming, emotional abuse, and manipulation of men are minimized, and what healthy boundaries and accountability actually look like in marriages and relationships. If you care about men’s mental health, marriage, masculinity, women’s role in men’s healing, and breaking toxic feminist echo chambers, this episode will challenge your beliefs and give you language, perspective, and practical insight you can take back into your home and your community.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/2-be-better--5828421/support.
In this episode of the 2 Be Better Podcast, we sit down with men’s rights advocate Chloe Roma to unpack the modern “gender war,” men’s mental health, and how online hate culture like the “kill all men” trend reshaped her life and purpose. Chloe shares her personal story of growing up watching her father be emotionally abused, how social media exposed her to extreme misandry, and why she decided she “couldn’t stay quiet anymore.” Together we dive into men’s advocacy, the men’s suicide crisis, childhood trauma, adoption, the impact of domineering mothers, and the very real cost she’s paid for speaking up, including being doxxed, threatened, and pushed to a near-fatal suicide attempt.
You’ll also hear a raw conversation about modern feminism, double standards between men and women, and how pornography addiction, OnlyFans culture, and early exposure to explicit content are rewiring an entire generation. We talk about the crucial role of wives and mothers in a man’s life, how women can become powerful advocates for their husbands and sons, why body shaming, emotional abuse, and manipulation of men are minimized, and what healthy boundaries and accountability actually look like in marriages and relationships. If you care about men’s mental health, marriage, masculinity, women’s role in men’s healing, and breaking toxic feminist echo chambers, this episode will challenge your beliefs and give you language, perspective, and practical insight you can take back into your home and your community.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/2-be-better--5828421/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look up, We've come all the things. We will be the.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Bottom all our world. It is you. You're my favorite view,
but that's nothing. Move you me.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome back, bumble bitches. I am here today, not with
my husband, but with a guest. Today we are here
with Roma Army. Very excited. Tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Having me, of course, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, so for those that don't know me, my name
is Chloe Roma. I'm a mensar's advocate.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I've been doing it for six years and yeah, I'm
just super happy to.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Be here today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Very excited for this, this interaction with you. I think
that we have a lot of aligned thoughts, feelings, perspectives.
So diving into the men's advocacy, where did that start
for you? What was the moment where you're like, I
can't stand quiet anymore. Oh, probably when I joined social media.
(01:15):
Because I never grew up on social media. I didn't
really have it besides like a Facebook page. So when
I was nineteen and I went on social media, I
was especially TikTok.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I was instantly exposed to all of this like I
hate men rhetoric. In twenty nineteen, it was a trending
hashtag hashtag kill all Men, and I was like, oh,
and I just thought that that was super messed up.
So I just started to respond to videos on TikTok
of this hate that I was seeing, and it just
took off from there.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Really, I believe that I had not heard of that
in twenty nineteen, hearing that hashtags absolutely insane. Can't believe
that I took off and got gravity behind it. I
can't imagine on the almost culture shock of going from
being on Facebook interacting with people that you may know
or like friends of friends, and then all of a
(02:07):
sudden the cessfool it was.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It was definitely definitely a culture shock for me because, yeah,
just not growing up on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And not knowing that that existed in the world, especially
in America. America is like, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Know what you guys have in your water, but there's
a lot of miserable people up there. So it's just
not really our culture down here up here in Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So it was definitely shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I was pretty confused and even more confused as to
why people were saying that I was wrong for calling
it out.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Exactly what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Definitely one of those like hive mind gaslight womans, Yes,
make you question yourself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, So growing up, what was the.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Let's say, example of what a men's role is, how
they are as I'm gonna I view men as women
as different species.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
We are all humanity, but we are very much different
in our roles, our in my mind, our.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Divine purposes and being here. So when you saw all
these things and you had that adverse reaction, you felt
the need to stand up for men growing up? How
was that laid out for you to have such a
strong reaction.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, you know, I've talked about this a few times.
You know, I was adopted to Canada in nineteen ninety
nine at two years old. And you know, the woman
that adopted me to Canada was quite mentally unwell, and
so you know, long story short, she was quite abusive
(03:45):
and quite neglectful to me and my other siblings who
were biological to her. And you know, she was a
very strong, like domineering type woman. And my dad worked
all the time and really put an effort to the kids.
He was really loving, not abusive or anything, but it
(04:05):
just you know, I watched him get like belittled and
yelled at all the time, and he just he worked
all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
He was a mechanical engineer, so was never home.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And then you know, when they would fight, when he
would try to stick up for his children, my mom
just went straight to the you know, I'm their mother,
these are my kids, They're not your kids, and really
just there was a lot of i think psychological and
emotional abuse that she committed to him as well. And
so that was definitely my very first example of you know,
(04:42):
it doesn't matter how much you put into your family,
how hard you work, the moment that things go south
in your marriage, if you're married to that kind of woman,
all of that can be no longer yours.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Like, you know, she would kick him out of his
house and just do these.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Things that even as a little girl, I was like, well,
how is that fair? You know, So I think that
was definitely my first example of what men go through
in that aspect.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
That's a lot, Yeah, that's a lot, and you know
a lot of women don't get that perspective, especially in childhood.
Usually it's the other way around, where the husband could
be the abuse of one or the more abusive one
in the relationship, so they have the su staying towards men.
I think that the perspective that you provides a very
(05:32):
important perspective, and I am so glad that despite all
of the hate and the bullshit, you are still here
six years later doing these things.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's been a lot along road.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I've definitely been through a lot when it comes to
this career and the challenges that come with it. But
I feel like these last three years, you're seeing a
lot more women coming forward and advocating for men, and
they're not dealing with the type of backlash that I
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So it makes me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Feel more solidified and almost happy that I went through
a lot of the chaos that I did because I
came out on the other side of it, and now
other people are able to, you know, advocate, use their voices.
Even men are able to speak up more now, and yeah,
they're not getting like death threats or docks or you know, social.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Services called on their children. So it's great.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, I came to my mind you you watched, so
all the other women can run with this.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You really kind of went through the trenches humbly.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
In it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Just to touch a little bit on all of the
negative aspects, all of the blowback of what you were
trying to do nobly, in my opinion, standing up for
men and trying to bring attention to these things and
humanize them. Yeah, it's absolutely insane where we are as
a society, especially with the internet culture of getting to
(07:00):
a point of docsing people and going after their children
and all of those kinds of things. So experiencing that,
knowing that in your heart you're trying to do pure
things and bring in an awakening, we could say, to
relationships and the way that we view one another as
a gender.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
What was that like? Seeing that side of humanity?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You know what it's still like it gets to me.
And when I was you know, when I first started this,
that was much younger.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think I was.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Twenty two years old, dealing with you know, my own
mental health, some unresolved things from being like bullied as
a kid, and uh, you know, it brought it brought
a lot back and you know, at one point I
wasn't I don't want to say I wasn't strong enough,
because I've always been strong, but it just, you know,
(07:55):
it just got to me, and it really you know,
I had a I had a suicide attempt in twenty
twenty that was almost fatal.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I ended up in the ICU, and dealing.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
With so much of the backlash of just being a
men's rights advocate and doing what I do one hundred
percent was what pushed me over the edge.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It wasn't the cause of it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I have some pretty long life of you know, pain
and trauma that one hundred percent contributed, But that pushed
me over the edge. So, you know, I'm grateful that
I survived, and I'm much stronger now, but it still
gets to me, especially when I talk about the suicide rate,
(08:37):
and you know, the video will go viral, It'll get
a couple million views, and the comments will just be
full of women.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Being so vile.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I just can't with some of the comments, and it
really it really breaks me down emotionally sometimes because you know,
I'm a mom, I have a son. You know, I
lost my best friend. I really have experience of what
it's like to be the bystander of mental health of
the men in our lives. It doesn't just affect those men,
(09:08):
it affects their families, their mothers, their sisters, you know,
So there are times where you know, mentally, I'm not
doing so great because I just can't. I can't fathom
and understand not caring about a fellow human being so
much just because of their genitals, but not just that
having it be deemed as like normal in society.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Not to care.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's really messed up. Actually it's not always the easiest
cross to bear, but I mean, I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I think you're handling it all very well, very gracefully.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Thank you, very badass. Thanks so to transition a little
bit before I do.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I don't want to lose this thought. I was one
of those women. I grew up with only one in
the household, so there was a lot of feminine rage energy,
and I was on my high horse. Men were all shit,
except for the one man that I deemed important because
I thought you were better than the rest of them
because you're my boyfriend or like my first husband, for example,
(10:18):
you were better than the rest. But don't forget, all
men are shit. And then I had a son and
that changed everything for me. And that was one of
the first moments where I recognized the brainwashing that had
taken place. Yeah, and a lot of that had happened
through I don't want to say it's modern day and feminism.
(10:42):
When I think of modern day feminism, I'm thinking of
like twenty fifteen and beyond. I don't know what the
fuck to call the two thousands to twenty fifteen, but
those fifteen years really shaped a lot of my view
of the power dynamic between men and women, and how
we are more powerful than men even though they have
the physical strength, We are all overall superior, they are subhuman,
(11:05):
whatever the case may be.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
What are your feelings on feminism?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, you know, as Andrew Wilson and the whatever podcast
community would say, I'm too feminist, which is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
But I think I think that feminism is, you know,
incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think as women, it's important that we, you know,
hold on to our roots, you know, the women of
the women's suffrage that fought for our ability to make
our own money, have our bank accounts, where pants, you know,
things that we just couldn't do before.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And I think that that needs to be respected and
built on.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I think that this fourth and like fifth way feminism
that we're in today is very much just to it's
just filled with this like superiority complex lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There's a lot of you know, encouraging other.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Women to you know, do things that are harmful to them,
that are you know, we're not setting a good standard
for each other. It's it's actually just quite a shock
how we went as women from wanting to be equal
so bad to now being like no worse, superioror like
(12:24):
your shit, your feelings don't matter. It's quite ironic, actually,
and I think it's very disrespectful to all.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The hard work that all the women put in.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I think that feminism is extremely important and should be cherished,
but it should never be used as a weapon. And
I feel like a lot of it has been weaponized nowadays,
and you know, using other women's trauma as a reason
to be like, see, this is why we shouldn't care
about men as a whole. And I'm like, how are
you any different from like a racist. When people have
(12:56):
bad experiences with a person from another race and then
they use that to hate their entire demographic, that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And we acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But when it's done to men it's okay, or even adversely,
when it's done to women. These male podcasters are like cesspools.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
They're no different.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
They've had a couple bad experiences with women, got cheated
on in sixth grade, and now you know, I've made
it their life mission to call women wars.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Are you okay up there?
Speaker 5 (13:24):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
But it's really gone backwards.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I agree with that looking at women's oppression that is
still happening across the world. I believe, as you commented
on earlier, looking down an America and kind of seeing
what we have going on.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
There's a lot going on here.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It is a.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I can feel a shift happening, but it's not happening
fast enough for my liking in it. There is this
overwhelming victimhood that I'm seeing in America that I agree
that we are taking on other women's trauma that may
have happened ten, fifteen, twenty, forty, fifty years ago, great
(14:09):
grandma happened something, and now fuck all men and trickle
down generational trauma. I agree it's all very messed up.
And I also agree with the statement that we are
dishonoring the women who put up the massive fights and
(14:31):
got I mean, the brunt of all of it. I
can't even imagine. We hear the history, we read the textbooks,
We all of those kinds of things. I couldn't imagine
being a woman fighting for the right to be able
to divorce my husband because he hits me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Literally, yeah, right where we come from.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah, and then going in front of other men and
trying to plead my case. But these men also hit
their wives. And now it's going to get back to
my husband and as a whole. And this is still
happening in like Yemen. Yeah, of course, it just it
absolutely baffles me. The the Dunning Krueger effects coming to
(15:14):
my mind, learn a little bit, feel like, you know,
everything in that there's a massive fall off and a drop,
and I think we're teetering right on that drop and
fall off of women in America. A vast majority of
women in America waking up and recognizing that we really
don't have it that bad here.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, yeah, we need to. I think.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
As Western women, I think that we need to use
you know, our voice, our our power as a way
to advocate and speak for women who are in the
other parts of the world that maybe isn't so progressive,
rather than you know, fixating on you know, it's not
perfect for women here yet, and it's not we definitely
(15:57):
still have our issues. Chanting kill all men is not
going to help the girls in you know, Muslim countries
that are getting married off at nine years old, or
the Christian girls in Africa who can't go to.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
School and are getting persecuted just because the Christian.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like we we need to put our energy where it matters,
you know, if we're gonna be superior, we need to
act superior.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Yes, And.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
To touch on all of the things that we just discussed,
there are people who willingly live with blindfolds on, yeah,
who don't want to see those things happening in the world.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And I believe that is that's just as worse as
seeing it and choosing to.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Not acknowledge it, Yeah, to not even trying to face that, right, Yeah, Yeah,
I agree.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
So leaning into.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
There has been a gender wars are I believe are
never going to end. And touching on Mid's advocacy and
women's feminism in the way it's kind of evolved a
little bit, do you think that women are necessary in
Mid's advocated spaces, not just for men to benefit, but
for also women to see the extreme stances that are
(17:23):
taking place against men.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely, women are one hundred percent crucial, just like you know,
as women and as feminists, we need men on our side.
Working together is incredibly crucial, but especially when you look
at men's issues, because there's a lot of factors that
go into why men don't necessarily feel comfortable speaking up.
(17:49):
And I've heard this time and time again. Andrew Wilson
and his wife were, you know, one of those that
criticized me and saying, you know you're a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Women don't.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Men don't need women to speak for them and you know,
to lead them. And what they don't understand is that
men's rights advocacy isn't about who's wearing the crown and
who's leading. It's not about leading, it's standing. It's about
standing beside a gender and saying, Okay, I'm going to
help you highlight what you're going through. Because number one,
(18:20):
you know, uh, women don't like hearing from men about
how to be women or how to act right like
we just don't like here. Again, even myself, sometimes when
I hear a guy being like this is how you
be a woman, I'm like, eh, like you don't, you
don't really know. So number one, we need to speak
to each other because we get each other on a
(18:41):
different level. But also men have been really conditioned not
to talk about what's going on. They're conditioned by each
other as well as just society and a whole. There's
so much pressure not to be weak, to you know,
be able to take the brunt of everything that you're
dealing with without needing any help. It's just so hardwired
(19:05):
into society, so we hardwire it into them, and a
lot of the times when they come forward, they're not
taken seriously. They're automatically dismissed. I mean, even as a woman,
I'm dismissed. So if I'm dismissed, I can't even imagine
what it's like for a.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Man trying to come forward, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So we definitely, yeah, we definitely need to stick up
for each other because you know, as women, we can
hear each other on a different wavelength that maybe we
wouldn't hear a man talking to us.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And it goes vice versa as well.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
And I agree with all of that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, I'm very much enjoying a response that I'm enjoying
our back and forth. Thank you for doing this again,
Thank you. I have another question, but I'm not sure
how to transition to it. So I'm just going to
jump into it and husband, I'm I'm sure you'll figure
out a way to mayor make this all magically work.
(20:03):
Double standards. We are all aware of the double standards
in society. Women love to point out double standards when
it comes to pushing against us. Hey, right, is one
of the biggest ones that I hear. But diving into
body shaming, emotional and physical abuse, sexual harassment, and manipulation
and relationships, those are four of the highest things that
(20:28):
when men do write into us, those are the things
that they're touching on. They don't believe that she's abusing me.
They don't believe that she's pulling streams behind the back,
that she's gaslighting me, that she may have higher narcissistic tendencies.
Body shaming to men is comedy literally, yeah, right. For women,
(20:50):
we know that that's treacherous waters and we don't touch it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
So what is your opinion on on the double standard
of things and how men and their emotional state, their
physical wellness, the manipulation, all those kinds of things happen.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
All that's very much downplayed.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's wildly irresponsible because you know,
I always say that equality, true equality means accepting equal responsibility.
And the moment that we stop accepting equal responsibility and
accepting responsibility for our actions, it just makes everything we've
worked for be diminished.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I feel like it's not reality to be like.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You know, don't talk about my body, don't talk about
my weight, but yet you know, the first thing we
want to talk about is whether a man is balding
or you know, has a dad bod, or how big
his dick is or you know, it's the first things
that we go to and it's incredibly damaging. And I'm
pretty sure we all learned in kindergarten that you treat
(21:57):
people how you want to be treated. You teach people
how to treat you based off of how you treat them.
So if we continue, you know, with these double standards,
not calling it out, not respecting the fact that it exists,
we're just setting ourselves back because then people are going
to look at us and be like, well, why should
(22:17):
I care about body shaming you when you don't care
about body shaming me?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, we're literally just going to set ourselves so far
back if we haven't already. Now, I agree with you.
I think that there is a switch that's happening.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I too, don't feel like it's happening fast enough, but
it's happening.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I just think that when it comes to double standards,
calling them out is like the most important thing, because
you've got to be able to show people that you
can take accountability for your shit too. In order to
meaningfully call other people out on their shit like hypocrisies,
it's the one way to destroy your own argument, you know,
(22:58):
very easily.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yes, yeah, So touching on how important it is for
women to be in these spaces advocating for men and
knowing that we are simultaneously, not all of us, but
there are women on our team who are simultaneously psychologically
(23:19):
physically hurting men. I believe the two most important feminine
roles in a man's life is first going to be
his mother, and then it's going to be his wife.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
They are two different roles to very vastly different roles.
I believe that men first seek approval, appreciation, self worth,
all of those kinds of things from their mother, and
then as they grow into adulthood and then they find
a wife and get married, those things are now derived
from her. But in a manner that is balancing the
masculine and feminine versus leaning on the mother nurturing aspect
(23:56):
of the mom. Right. I've seen so many tiktoks of
wives openly shaming their husbands, posting embarrassing clips.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, how important do.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You believe the role of the wife is in a
marriage when it comes to what you do with men's advocacy?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Man, that's a really good question. I've never been asked
that question before. Yeah, I think it's incredibly Let me
think about that for a second. I think it's really
important to keep these things in mind when you are
like nurturing your relationship with your husband, just as much
(24:43):
as it's important for husbands to keep in mind of,
you know, the social pressures, maybe the past traumas, things
that their wife goes through as a way to support her.
And when I talk about this, I get quite an
adverse reaction a lot of the times, and I'm told like, well,
you know, we don't want to coddle men, we don't
(25:03):
want to coddle our husbands.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm not his mother, and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
But what I've learned is exactly what you said that
you know, when we're kids. How we learn to love
We learn that by what we're taught. And so a
lot of men, you know, my partner, for example, didn't
always have, you know, the best relationship with his mom.
He loves his mom dearly, but there's some issues there
(25:30):
and when it comes to our relationship, I've learned that,
you know, part of my role is to kind of
help correct the things that he's learned to believe about
himself through his relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
With his mother.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And you know, I love his mother. It's not to
say anything bad about her. However, there are some self
worth things where if you're not you know, constantly validated
or feel that emotional closeness to your mother.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Uh, there's a lot of issues that men will grow
up and have.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
They'll have deep feelings of worthlessness and ability to talk
about their emotions. If they were never validated, then that
comes into play where they don't know how to communicate,
They don't know how to advocate for themselves and their
lives or their marriage.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So it becomes our role in a way to pay
attention to our husbands.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I feel like and see, Okay, you know, this is
his past, this is what's impacting this, This is where
other people did him wrong. Now it's my job to
show him that it doesn't have to be that way,
teach him a different way. And the only way that
we can do that is by understanding men's perspectives. You know,
it's just incredibly important in being able to support our partners,
(26:46):
whether you're a man or a woman, being able to
look at Okay, these are the factors that have played
in my partner's stress and their emotional state.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
How can I fix this? How can I change that?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And for some reason, when we're talking about it husband
nurturing those things and his wife it's accepted. But when
we talked about women nurturing those things in their husbands,
it's called like coddling, And that has never really made
any sense to me because it's literally our role, Like
why would you not if you love your husband, why
would you not want to look at the negative experiences
(27:18):
he's had and try to help rewire his brain a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, I just feel like that's common sense.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I don't know, I agree. I agree with everything you
just said.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I think you laid that out very beautifully, and in
my healed perspective, now I agree, it's an equivalent exchange. Yeah,
everything in life is a transaction and whether people want
to acknowledge it or not, marriage is a lifelong transaction
and the things that we feed into one another matters.
(27:49):
When I was young, had very high narcissistic traits. I
had unchecked borderline personality. It is now very checked, very real.
Then I was a mess, and borderline personality disorder and
narcissistic personality disorder bleed.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Lines a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, And I did believe that I deserved all of
the love and the affection and the caring from the
man because I'm a woman, I'm a princess.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I deserve to be doted on and and flip.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Subhuman really is the term that comes to my mind
when I think about the way that I used to
process how I felt about men. And I hate to
say this, I believe that due to social media, and
it also could be the algorithm of things, and we
just get a little pocket of sour and then that
(28:42):
moves on and then overall things are getting better. But
I feel like that mindset that I once had ten
fifteen years ago, even though we are on an I
might be making this word up word up epitex.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
No, that's a word is it.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I feel like we're getting ready to teeter over and
fall down. Either way.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I love that you're encouraging it. Thanks for the support
in that one.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It has gotten there.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
The echo chamber of that mindset that women are above
men in those areas has gotten really.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Bad, Like it's thick. The sludge is in there.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Do you think so talking on women being in those
men's spaces, knowing that wives have such an integral role
in their husband's lives, a lot of women. I'm all
over the place right now, So I'm saying a bunch
of shit. Hopefully it strings.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
All the pats in the world with that.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Don't worry, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So we know for a fact that women are less
likely to speak up for themselves in professional situations, they
are less likely to ask for a raise, whatever the
case may be, in moments where the defense of their
husband comes into play. Knowing that women are less likely
all ready to speak up in certain situations, and then
(30:18):
adding in that thought process of well, he's a man,
he should be able to uphold himself, and then just
kind of leaves him to the wolves. Do you think
women speaking up more may get to those women who
are stuck in that echo chamber of men are subhuman,
all those kinds of things. What kind of conversations do
(30:40):
you think women who want to start entering into the
sphere and looking out for not just their husbands but
maybe their husband's brothers or even their own sons, What
are some conversations they should start initiating.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Oh, man, it starts with the with the men in
your lives.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
If you want to if you want to have empathy
and understanding, you know, towards men, It definitely starts with
having learning to have the empathy.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And understanding for people that you already care about. I
feel like it's just kind of human psychology, right, Like
if we see something happening to someone we don't know,
we're less likely to care rather than it happening to somebody.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Close to us.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And you know, obviously that's tricky because a lot of
men don't open up even when you ask them. But
if you can, you know, get some perspective, whether it's
from male friends, from you know, your partner, from your brother,
from your dad, it really just kind of starts with
that conversation of like what do you go through, what
do you deal with? What's something that you know plagues
(31:43):
you when you sleep at night. Starting that's really all
where it starts, I think, because that's that's just where
it started for me, was was being around men and
not even having to ask those questions because it didn't
really occur to me. It was just something that I gradually,
you know, learned, And so I have found I've gotten
(32:06):
emails and comments many times over the years from women
who have said, you know, these were my perspectives, Like
I really was like a man hater, and you know,
you helped me kind of open my eyes a little
bit and see that you know, what I was doing
was wrong and it was jaded. And I so appreciate
those comments because it makes me feel like I'm making
(32:27):
a real difference in this world. But at one hundred
percent starts with just trying to understand the men around
you and getting their perspective. You know, if your husband says,
you know, I'm afraid that what if I can't provide
everything that I'm providing.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Will you look at me differently? Will you stop loving me?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Like that's a pretty deep thought, right, So even hearing
something like that from our partner puts into perspective, Oh
my god, if my man's feeling like this, this is
the pressure that other men are dealing with, and we
don't as women, we're not necessarily raise to think about
that boys are raised. I feel like to have girls
in like the forefront of their mind right, Like, don't
(33:07):
you know, I have a son, and I'm going to
teach him one hundred percent, like you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Call women the B word.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You don't you know, practice any locker room talk in
front of women or with your buddies, Like, we just
don't treat.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Women like that. His dad is very on board as well.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But we spend so much time teaching our daughters kind
of how to protect themselves and what to expect from men,
but we don't teach them what they need to do
in return the care that.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
They have to have.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And so that's something that you know, I teach my
daughter too, Like when she's at school, I say, hey, like,
don't you know, don't ever hit boys, don't ever you know,
kick them in the balls. It hurts, and we'll never
understand that pain. Never make fun of a boy who's crying.
Don't body shame your stepdad and call him bald and fat,
Like you know, there's like things that we have to
(34:01):
teach our girls too, so that when she gets older,
you know, she's not having these epiphanies being like oh shit,
like you know, I had it wrong this whole time,
because you never know the kind of damage that she
could do in the meantime just not validating or potentially
you know, some bully behavior. So I feel like we
(34:22):
really need to we need to teach both genders, and
right now that's not happening, and I feel like that's
what causes a lot of this discourse.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So if you know, and.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Fathers as well, you guys need to open up to
your children, open up to your son, open up to
your daughter, and you know, kind of give them the
perspective as well. And it's not you know, again, when
I talk about this, a lot of women are like, well,
you know, why did you teach your daughter that you're
just as somebody said, I'm just grooming my daughter to
(34:54):
be abused by men because I'm teaching her to like
care is crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
That was one of the wildest comments I think I've
ever gotten.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
But there is this perspective that the moment you try
to teach women or little girls a male perspective, that
you're just like oppressing them, weakening them, which never made
any sense to me.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But that's a sure way to go downhill fast.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We're never going to make progress if that's what we're
convincing girls, that caring is.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Like weakness, right. I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I believe that we as women, and a lot of
women don't recognize us, we hold a lot of power
just in being women, and we hold a lot of
power over men in being women.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
In my mind a lot of subconscious trust and dependency
in men on women because of what we can provide
emotionally and spiritually for them. And that being severed or disconnected,
in my mind, is like being You're now stuck in
the arctic night time, you don't have a fire, you're
(36:05):
by yourself.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Hopefully you make it until the morning.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
It's really sad to think about, and I really hope
that my son never has to go through that with
whom he chooses to be with. Yeah, and a lot
of women fall into that mindset of well, I'm not
going to help him with anything. And one of the
biggest reasons so that an erosion can happen in a
foundation of relationship as a I'm going to say this
(36:31):
the one time, and then afterwards we're gonna have to
refer to it as corn a pornography addiction.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yeah, so what is your opinion on.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That in general in relationships and men using it before
we continue on in that conversation corn addictions.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, well, I think it's I think corn addictions and
relationships are incredibly damaging. I've seen, you know, I have
a close friend whose husband is actually dealing with h
with one of those addictions. He was like a Mormon,
I think, or not not Mormon. It was that religion
(37:11):
that's like they're like off the map and they don't uh,
you know, involve themselves with social media or electronics.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I can't remember, huh, mennonits.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Mennonite maybe maybe if it's something like that, I can't remember.
But it's one of those like, you know, pretty extreme
Amish Amish amishka Amish. So when he left his like
Amish Amish culture, you know, he got exposed to a
lot of things that he wasn't exposed to before, and
coren addiction, you know, that came very heavy for him,
(37:43):
as it does many men that actually leave those types
of religious groups, they get exposed to to social media
and all these things, and it heavily affected her confidence, uh,
their relationship, their intimacy.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Uh, it's a huge, huge problem.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I feel like people downplay corn addictions a lot, but
it puts a huge wedge in relationships and I've and
I've seen it.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, Yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That is.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
One of the biggest hurts that I hear from women,
not just on on the podcast, but in general being
shouted into the void of the Internet that men can't
be trusted. Once a cheater, always a cheater. People are
now using AI and are creating chat robots to have
this interaction with instead of going to conography websites.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
We know that, as you just touched on, he left
the Amish Amish community and was just kind of thrown
into the deep end of all of these massive dopamine hits,
super quick rapid recession, back to back to back.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
And it's not just dopamine hits that are happening.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
There is oxytocin being released after the fact, and after
that dopamine hit and that oxotosin starts hitting in he
is now associating that dopamine release to what's going on
with his phone this object is giving me this dopamine
that primal brain is associating those two. So, having witnesses
(39:24):
in the capacity that you have, and having the understanding
that you have in this, do you believe that there
should be a little bit more leeway and understanding in
the way men are brought up and maybe are exposed
pornography and maybe have a little bit more grace in
trying to combat these things in a marriage or a
long term relationship.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, I think they're definitely exposed to it heavy, almost
kind of pre dispositioned to these issues, and you know,
it's only gonna get worse. There's been a lot of
studies they've been studying this really hardcore for the last
like five years about adolescence and pornography.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
And I might actually have the uh, I might actually
have the statistics right here.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
But there's a bunch of studies that's being done about
pornography and who's being exposed to it, and yeah, right here.
So in the United States, seventy three percent of US
teens say that they've seen online you know, graphic content.
(40:33):
This is uh, fifty four percent sought by the age
of thirteen. The average first exposure age is twelve and
fifty eight percent that the exposure said that the exposure
was accidental, So that's algorithms, reposts, group chats, social media feats.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
A lot of.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Kids are now because of the uproar, and you know,
only fans making you know, basically like soft core corn
on your social media to promote it. These are now
coming across children's pages where they are now like unconsensually
getting exposed to this stuff. Australia is the same seventy
(41:15):
five percent of adolescents That means before sixteen encountered online corn,
thirty nine percent we're under the age of thirteen and
forty percent said that the exposure was accidental.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So we're now in a world of social.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Media where you don't have to just go to that
specific website to get exposed to this stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Kids are being exposed to it now right on their screen.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And when you look at that, I mean it causes
issues for girls and boys. Girls teenage girls are dealing
with a lot more feelings of shame, not feeling worthy
comparing themselves to other women. Eating disorders are very much
on the rise for our younger generation like Jen Alpha
(42:01):
and boys, you know they're being predispositioned even harder to
these addictions now because they're everywhere, and there's this normalization
in a sense in society about this type of like
you know, sex work and only fans, and you know,
we're telling boys that like if you don't like that,
you're insecure, and kind of like there's this whole brainwashing
(42:23):
where we're almost trying to normalize it, but nobody's thinking
about what normalizing it the effects it's going to have, right,
Like porn addictions or sorry, corn addictions have really negative
effects on relationships. It changes the way that boys and
men view women, negative expectations when it comes to the bedroom,
(42:44):
negative expectations on women, higher rates of misogyny, higher rates
of misogyny that ends in sexual violence. These are all
things that are directly attributed to this over glamorization of
this industry, and it's it's only going to get worse,
and truthfully, I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
To combat it, especially as a boy mom.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I have a boy and a girl, and I have
no idea what I'm going to do in that aspect
other than just keep them off social media and do
my best. Because it's getting bad, and especially when we're
normalizing it now. It's no longer this like dirty thing
that we know we shouldn't look at or do.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
It's now actually just accepted.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
But it's accepted on the girl's end, Like it's accepted
to make it and to do it, but it's not
accepted for boys to like watch it, which I would agree,
but I think it's both ends.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Neither of us should be doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
We can't be doing it and then punishing the other
gender for like watching it. Like we have some responsibility,
you know, not trying to victim blame anybody, It's just
we have some responsibility that I don't really think anybody
wants to talk about.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
I agree with that one percent. And I do believe that.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Women as a whole, the one who are producing it
for it to be watched, have a hand in it.
And I believe the women who are staying silent and
not holding women to a standard of not doing those
kinds of things have a hand in it as well. Yeah,
so we are coming up on the last ten minutes.
Wanted to give a little bit warning, write it with
by so quick.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I know.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
I love the way this conversation is going. I would
love to do another interview with you. If you are
open to that, we can plan something for the future.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
But in the last do you guys do in person?
I would love to come there and sit on your
fancy couch.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Yeah. I can definitely talk to husband. We can figure
something out.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, I would love to. I would love to fly
down there, Like, I'll cover the costs. I don't expect
you guys to, but yeah, I would love to. I
think it'd be so cool.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yeah, that would be dope.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
I think that I'm all about energy exchanges and in
person interactions, so I'm on board.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
In the last ten minutes, what are any final thoughts,
any final messages that you would like to to send
out to the to be Better community and beyond.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, I mean, I just really appreciate what you guys do.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I appreciate that you guys, I've created your own.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Safe space for men.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I see men coming forward to you guys all the time,
asking for advice, you know, on how they can express
themselves better to their wives. I can see wives like
that one video that your husband and you did where
a wife was I think she was asking how to
support her husband when her husband is saying like negative
self thoughts things to himself, and I just think it's
(45:34):
really important. And you know, anybody, especially any man that
comes forward and seeks help, whether it's anonymously or you know,
through podcast platforms. I just want to, you know, commend you,
because it starts with you. And if we can teach
men through example that it's safe to open up and
(45:54):
that it's okay, they will push that on to like
their younger generation, their son, it's their little brothers, you know,
And so I think it's just really important. I think
what you and your husband do is just so valuable
to society and you know, to the men watching, I
just want you to like do your best to shut
(46:14):
out the noise from social media.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Shut out you.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Know, the women that are like, you know, women aren't
gonna love you unless you make a certain amount of money,
and just don't listen to any of that because in
real life, it's not really reality. You're probably not going
to run into these women that are like, well you
have to make six figures.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know, you may run into like.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
A narcissistic woman or an abuser, but these women on
social media that are like setting the standard for.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
You guys, don't listen to it.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's completely fake, it's not real, and just keep focusing
on yourself and don't be afraid to open up to
the women in your lives because a lot of them
do care that they want to care you just you know,
got to take that step to open up, which.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is granted, it's a scary step, but it's an important one.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
So I agree.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's my tidbit.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
The only thing I want to a little tiny tack
onto that is, don't be afraid to set boundaries. It's
not controlling, it is not overbearing. You have a right
to say what you will and will not accept in
your life from women, and yeah, fuck them if they
say otherwise.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah they're not the right person for you for sure.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah alrighty with that, I would like to thank you
so much for being here again.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
This has been absolutely delightful.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Thank you so much, and shout out to my cousin.
I love you because I hate it.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
What was her name? Hello, Cassandra, she's here. We did
it together. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
This filled my cup. I feel really good about this conversation,
and thank you all for tuning in. Thank you for
taking a moment and allowing roma Arma to be a
little mouthpiece for men's advocacy, and and and actually hearing
the words, and and not getting pissed off at the
messenger m hm.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And with that we will see you guys on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Bye.
Look up, We've come all the things. We will be the.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Bottom all our world. It is you. You're my favorite view,
but that's nothing. Move you me.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome back, bumble bitches. I am here today, not with
my husband, but with a guest. Today we are here
with Roma Army. Very excited. Tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Having me, of course, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yes, so for those that don't know me, my name
is Chloe Roma. I'm a mensar's advocate.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I've been doing it for six years and yeah, I'm
just super happy to.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Be here today.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Very excited for this, this interaction with you. I think
that we have a lot of aligned thoughts, feelings, perspectives.
So diving into the men's advocacy, where did that start
for you? What was the moment where you're like, I
can't stand quiet anymore. Oh, probably when I joined social media.
(01:15):
Because I never grew up on social media. I didn't
really have it besides like a Facebook page. So when
I was nineteen and I went on social media, I
was especially TikTok.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
I was instantly exposed to all of this like I
hate men rhetoric. In twenty nineteen, it was a trending
hashtag hashtag kill all Men, and I was like, oh,
and I just thought that that was super messed up.
So I just started to respond to videos on TikTok
of this hate that I was seeing, and it just
took off from there.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Really, I believe that I had not heard of that
in twenty nineteen, hearing that hashtags absolutely insane. Can't believe
that I took off and got gravity behind it. I
can't imagine on the almost culture shock of going from
being on Facebook interacting with people that you may know
or like friends of friends, and then all of a
(02:07):
sudden the cessfool it was.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It was definitely definitely a culture shock for me because, yeah,
just not growing up on social media.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And not knowing that that existed in the world, especially
in America. America is like, I don't know, I don't.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Know what you guys have in your water, but there's
a lot of miserable people up there. So it's just
not really our culture down here up here in Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So it was definitely shocking.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I was pretty confused and even more confused as to
why people were saying that I was wrong for calling
it out.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Exactly what do you mean?
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Definitely one of those like hive mind gaslight womans, Yes,
make you question yourself.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, So growing up, what was the.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Let's say, example of what a men's role is, how
they are as I'm gonna I view men as women
as different species.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
We are all humanity, but we are very much different
in our roles, our in my mind, our.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Divine purposes and being here. So when you saw all
these things and you had that adverse reaction, you felt
the need to stand up for men growing up? How
was that laid out for you to have such a
strong reaction.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, you know, I've talked about this a few times.
You know, I was adopted to Canada in nineteen ninety
nine at two years old. And you know, the woman
that adopted me to Canada was quite mentally unwell, and
so you know, long story short, she was quite abusive
(03:45):
and quite neglectful to me and my other siblings who
were biological to her. And you know, she was a
very strong, like domineering type woman. And my dad worked
all the time and really put an effort to the kids.
He was really loving, not abusive or anything, but it
(04:05):
just you know, I watched him get like belittled and
yelled at all the time, and he just he worked
all the time.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
He was a mechanical engineer, so was never home.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
And then you know, when they would fight, when he
would try to stick up for his children, my mom
just went straight to the you know, I'm their mother,
these are my kids, They're not your kids, and really
just there was a lot of i think psychological and
emotional abuse that she committed to him as well. And
so that was definitely my very first example of you know,
(04:42):
it doesn't matter how much you put into your family,
how hard you work, the moment that things go south
in your marriage, if you're married to that kind of woman,
all of that can be no longer yours.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Like, you know, she would kick him out of his
house and just do these.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Things that even as a little girl, I was like, well,
how is that fair? You know, So I think that
was definitely my first example of what men go through
in that aspect.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
That's a lot, Yeah, that's a lot, and you know
a lot of women don't get that perspective, especially in childhood.
Usually it's the other way around, where the husband could
be the abuse of one or the more abusive one
in the relationship, so they have the su staying towards men.
I think that the perspective that you provides a very
(05:32):
important perspective, and I am so glad that despite all
of the hate and the bullshit, you are still here
six years later doing these things.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It's been a lot along road.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I've definitely been through a lot when it comes to
this career and the challenges that come with it. But
I feel like these last three years, you're seeing a
lot more women coming forward and advocating for men, and
they're not dealing with the type of backlash that I
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
So it makes me.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Feel more solidified and almost happy that I went through
a lot of the chaos that I did because I
came out on the other side of it, and now
other people are able to, you know, advocate, use their voices.
Even men are able to speak up more now, and yeah,
they're not getting like death threats or docks or you know, social.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Services called on their children. So it's great.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, I came to my mind you you watched, so
all the other women can run with this.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
You really kind of went through the trenches humbly.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
In it.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Just to touch a little bit on all of the
negative aspects, all of the blowback of what you were
trying to do nobly, in my opinion, standing up for
men and trying to bring attention to these things and
humanize them. Yeah, it's absolutely insane where we are as
a society, especially with the internet culture of getting to
(07:00):
a point of docsing people and going after their children
and all of those kinds of things. So experiencing that,
knowing that in your heart you're trying to do pure
things and bring in an awakening, we could say, to
relationships and the way that we view one another as
a gender.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
What was that like? Seeing that side of humanity?
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You know what it's still like it gets to me.
And when I was you know, when I first started this,
that was much younger.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I think I was.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Twenty two years old, dealing with you know, my own
mental health, some unresolved things from being like bullied as
a kid, and uh, you know, it brought it brought
a lot back and you know, at one point I
wasn't I don't want to say I wasn't strong enough,
because I've always been strong, but it just, you know,
(07:55):
it just got to me, and it really you know,
I had a I had a suicide attempt in twenty
twenty that was almost fatal.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I ended up in the ICU, and dealing.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
With so much of the backlash of just being a
men's rights advocate and doing what I do one hundred
percent was what pushed me over the edge.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
It wasn't the cause of it.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I have some pretty long life of you know, pain
and trauma that one hundred percent contributed, But that pushed
me over the edge. So, you know, I'm grateful that
I survived, and I'm much stronger now, but it still
gets to me, especially when I talk about the suicide rate,
(08:37):
and you know, the video will go viral, It'll get
a couple million views, and the comments will just be
full of women.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Being so vile.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I just can't with some of the comments, and it
really it really breaks me down emotionally sometimes because you know,
I'm a mom, I have a son. You know, I
lost my best friend. I really have experience of what
it's like to be the bystander of mental health of
the men in our lives. It doesn't just affect those men,
(09:08):
it affects their families, their mothers, their sisters, you know,
So there are times where you know, mentally, I'm not
doing so great because I just can't. I can't fathom
and understand not caring about a fellow human being so
much just because of their genitals, but not just that
having it be deemed as like normal in society.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Not to care.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's really messed up. Actually it's not always the easiest
cross to bear, but I mean, I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I think you're handling it all very well, very gracefully.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
Thank you, very badass. Thanks so to transition a little
bit before I do.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
I don't want to lose this thought. I was one
of those women. I grew up with only one in
the household, so there was a lot of feminine rage energy,
and I was on my high horse. Men were all shit,
except for the one man that I deemed important because
I thought you were better than the rest of them
because you're my boyfriend or like my first husband, for example,
(10:18):
you were better than the rest. But don't forget, all
men are shit. And then I had a son and
that changed everything for me. And that was one of
the first moments where I recognized the brainwashing that had
taken place. Yeah, and a lot of that had happened
through I don't want to say it's modern day and feminism.
(10:42):
When I think of modern day feminism, I'm thinking of
like twenty fifteen and beyond. I don't know what the
fuck to call the two thousands to twenty fifteen, but
those fifteen years really shaped a lot of my view
of the power dynamic between men and women, and how
we are more powerful than men even though they have
the physical strength, We are all overall superior, they are subhuman,
(11:05):
whatever the case may be.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
What are your feelings on feminism?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, you know, as Andrew Wilson and the whatever podcast
community would say, I'm too feminist, which is hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
But I think I think that feminism is, you know,
incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think as women, it's important that we, you know,
hold on to our roots, you know, the women of
the women's suffrage that fought for our ability to make
our own money, have our bank accounts, where pants, you know,
things that we just couldn't do before.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And I think that that needs to be respected and
built on.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
I think that this fourth and like fifth way feminism
that we're in today is very much just to it's
just filled with this like superiority complex lack of empathy.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There's a lot of you know, encouraging other.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Women to you know, do things that are harmful to them,
that are you know, we're not setting a good standard
for each other. It's it's actually just quite a shock
how we went as women from wanting to be equal
so bad to now being like no worse, superioror like
(12:24):
your shit, your feelings don't matter. It's quite ironic, actually,
and I think it's very disrespectful to all.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
The hard work that all the women put in.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I think that feminism is extremely important and should be cherished,
but it should never be used as a weapon. And
I feel like a lot of it has been weaponized nowadays,
and you know, using other women's trauma as a reason
to be like, see, this is why we shouldn't care
about men as a whole. And I'm like, how are
you any different from like a racist. When people have
(12:56):
bad experiences with a person from another race and then
they use that to hate their entire demographic, that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And we acknowledge that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But when it's done to men it's okay, or even adversely,
when it's done to women. These male podcasters are like cesspools.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
They're no different.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
They've had a couple bad experiences with women, got cheated
on in sixth grade, and now you know, I've made
it their life mission to call women wars.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Are you okay up there?
Speaker 5 (13:24):
Right?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
But it's really gone backwards.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I agree with that looking at women's oppression that is
still happening across the world. I believe, as you commented
on earlier, looking down an America and kind of seeing
what we have going on.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
There's a lot going on here.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It is a.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
I can feel a shift happening, but it's not happening
fast enough for my liking in it. There is this
overwhelming victimhood that I'm seeing in America that I agree
that we are taking on other women's trauma that may
have happened ten, fifteen, twenty, forty, fifty years ago, great
(14:09):
grandma happened something, and now fuck all men and trickle
down generational trauma. I agree it's all very messed up.
And I also agree with the statement that we are
dishonoring the women who put up the massive fights and
(14:31):
got I mean, the brunt of all of it. I
can't even imagine. We hear the history, we read the textbooks,
We all of those kinds of things. I couldn't imagine
being a woman fighting for the right to be able
to divorce my husband because he hits me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Literally, yeah, right where we come from.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah, and then going in front of other men and
trying to plead my case. But these men also hit
their wives. And now it's going to get back to
my husband and as a whole. And this is still
happening in like Yemen. Yeah, of course, it just it
absolutely baffles me. The the Dunning Krueger effects coming to
(15:14):
my mind, learn a little bit, feel like, you know,
everything in that there's a massive fall off and a drop,
and I think we're teetering right on that drop and
fall off of women in America. A vast majority of
women in America waking up and recognizing that we really
don't have it that bad here.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, yeah, we need to. I think.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
As Western women, I think that we need to use
you know, our voice, our our power as a way
to advocate and speak for women who are in the
other parts of the world that maybe isn't so progressive,
rather than you know, fixating on you know, it's not
perfect for women here yet, and it's not we definitely
(15:57):
still have our issues. Chanting kill all men is not
going to help the girls in you know, Muslim countries
that are getting married off at nine years old, or
the Christian girls in Africa who can't go to.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
School and are getting persecuted just because the Christian.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Like we we need to put our energy where it matters,
you know, if we're gonna be superior, we need to
act superior.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Yes, And.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
To touch on all of the things that we just discussed,
there are people who willingly live with blindfolds on, yeah,
who don't want to see those things happening in the world.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
And I believe that is that's just as worse as
seeing it and choosing to.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Not acknowledge it, Yeah, to not even trying to face that, right, Yeah, Yeah,
I agree.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
So leaning into.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
There has been a gender wars are I believe are
never going to end. And touching on Mid's advocacy and
women's feminism in the way it's kind of evolved a
little bit, do you think that women are necessary in
Mid's advocated spaces, not just for men to benefit, but
for also women to see the extreme stances that are
(17:23):
taking place against men.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Absolutely, women are one hundred percent crucial, just like you know,
as women and as feminists, we need men on our side.
Working together is incredibly crucial, but especially when you look
at men's issues, because there's a lot of factors that
go into why men don't necessarily feel comfortable speaking up.
(17:49):
And I've heard this time and time again. Andrew Wilson
and his wife were, you know, one of those that
criticized me and saying, you know you're a woman.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Women don't.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Men don't need women to speak for them and you know,
to lead them. And what they don't understand is that
men's rights advocacy isn't about who's wearing the crown and
who's leading. It's not about leading, it's standing. It's about
standing beside a gender and saying, Okay, I'm going to
help you highlight what you're going through. Because number one,
(18:20):
you know, uh, women don't like hearing from men about
how to be women or how to act right like
we just don't like here. Again, even myself, sometimes when
I hear a guy being like this is how you
be a woman, I'm like, eh, like you don't, you
don't really know. So number one, we need to speak
to each other because we get each other on a
(18:41):
different level. But also men have been really conditioned not
to talk about what's going on. They're conditioned by each
other as well as just society and a whole. There's
so much pressure not to be weak, to you know,
be able to take the brunt of everything that you're
dealing with without needing any help. It's just so hardwired
(19:05):
into society, so we hardwire it into them, and a
lot of the times when they come forward, they're not
taken seriously. They're automatically dismissed. I mean, even as a woman,
I'm dismissed. So if I'm dismissed, I can't even imagine
what it's like for a.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Man trying to come forward, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So we definitely, yeah, we definitely need to stick up
for each other because you know, as women, we can
hear each other on a different wavelength that maybe we
wouldn't hear a man talking to us.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
And it goes vice versa as well.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
And I agree with all of that.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, I'm very much enjoying a response that I'm enjoying
our back and forth. Thank you for doing this again,
Thank you. I have another question, but I'm not sure
how to transition to it. So I'm just going to
jump into it and husband, I'm I'm sure you'll figure
out a way to mayor make this all magically work.
(20:03):
Double standards. We are all aware of the double standards
in society. Women love to point out double standards when
it comes to pushing against us. Hey, right, is one
of the biggest ones that I hear. But diving into
body shaming, emotional and physical abuse, sexual harassment, and manipulation
and relationships, those are four of the highest things that
(20:28):
when men do write into us, those are the things
that they're touching on. They don't believe that she's abusing me.
They don't believe that she's pulling streams behind the back,
that she's gaslighting me, that she may have higher narcissistic tendencies.
Body shaming to men is comedy literally, yeah, right. For women,
(20:50):
we know that that's treacherous waters and we don't touch it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
So what is your opinion on on the double standard
of things and how men and their emotional state, their
physical wellness, the manipulation, all those kinds of things happen.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
All that's very much downplayed.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's wildly irresponsible because you know,
I always say that equality, true equality means accepting equal responsibility.
And the moment that we stop accepting equal responsibility and
accepting responsibility for our actions, it just makes everything we've
worked for be diminished.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I feel like it's not reality to be like.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
You know, don't talk about my body, don't talk about
my weight, but yet you know, the first thing we
want to talk about is whether a man is balding
or you know, has a dad bod, or how big
his dick is or you know, it's the first things
that we go to and it's incredibly damaging. And I'm
pretty sure we all learned in kindergarten that you treat
(21:57):
people how you want to be treated. You teach people
how to treat you based off of how you treat them.
So if we continue, you know, with these double standards,
not calling it out, not respecting the fact that it exists,
we're just setting ourselves back because then people are going
to look at us and be like, well, why should
(22:17):
I care about body shaming you when you don't care
about body shaming me?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Like, we're literally just going to set ourselves so far
back if we haven't already. Now, I agree with you.
I think that there is a switch that's happening.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I too, don't feel like it's happening fast enough, but
it's happening.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I just think that when it comes to double standards,
calling them out is like the most important thing, because
you've got to be able to show people that you
can take accountability for your shit too. In order to
meaningfully call other people out on their shit like hypocrisies,
it's the one way to destroy your own argument, you know,
(22:58):
very easily.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yes, yeah, So touching on how important it is for
women to be in these spaces advocating for men and
knowing that we are simultaneously, not all of us, but
there are women on our team who are simultaneously psychologically
(23:19):
physically hurting men. I believe the two most important feminine
roles in a man's life is first going to be
his mother, and then it's going to be his wife.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
They are two different roles to very vastly different roles.
I believe that men first seek approval, appreciation, self worth,
all of those kinds of things from their mother, and
then as they grow into adulthood and then they find
a wife and get married, those things are now derived
from her. But in a manner that is balancing the
masculine and feminine versus leaning on the mother nurturing aspect
(23:56):
of the mom. Right. I've seen so many tiktoks of
wives openly shaming their husbands, posting embarrassing clips.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, how important do.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You believe the role of the wife is in a
marriage when it comes to what you do with men's advocacy?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Man, that's a really good question. I've never been asked
that question before. Yeah, I think it's incredibly Let me
think about that for a second. I think it's really
important to keep these things in mind when you are
like nurturing your relationship with your husband, just as much
(24:43):
as it's important for husbands to keep in mind of,
you know, the social pressures, maybe the past traumas, things
that their wife goes through as a way to support her.
And when I talk about this, I get quite an
adverse reaction a lot of the times, and I'm told like, well,
you know, we don't want to coddle men, we don't
(25:03):
want to coddle our husbands.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm not his mother, and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
But what I've learned is exactly what you said that
you know, when we're kids. How we learn to love
We learn that by what we're taught. And so a
lot of men, you know, my partner, for example, didn't
always have, you know, the best relationship with his mom.
He loves his mom dearly, but there's some issues there
(25:30):
and when it comes to our relationship, I've learned that,
you know, part of my role is to kind of
help correct the things that he's learned to believe about
himself through his relationship.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
With his mother.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
And you know, I love his mother. It's not to
say anything bad about her. However, there are some self
worth things where if you're not you know, constantly validated
or feel that emotional closeness to your mother.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Uh, there's a lot of issues that men will grow
up and have.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
They'll have deep feelings of worthlessness and ability to talk
about their emotions. If they were never validated, then that
comes into play where they don't know how to communicate,
They don't know how to advocate for themselves and their
lives or their marriage.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So it becomes our role in a way to pay
attention to our husbands.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
I feel like and see, Okay, you know, this is
his past, this is what's impacting this, This is where
other people did him wrong. Now it's my job to
show him that it doesn't have to be that way,
teach him a different way. And the only way that
we can do that is by understanding men's perspectives. You know,
it's just incredibly important in being able to support our partners,
(26:46):
whether you're a man or a woman, being able to
look at Okay, these are the factors that have played
in my partner's stress and their emotional state.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
How can I fix this? How can I change that?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
And for some reason, when we're talking about it husband
nurturing those things and his wife it's accepted. But when
we talked about women nurturing those things in their husbands,
it's called like coddling, And that has never really made
any sense to me because it's literally our role, Like
why would you not if you love your husband, why
would you not want to look at the negative experiences
(27:18):
he's had and try to help rewire his brain a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, I just feel like that's common sense.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
I don't know, I agree. I agree with everything you
just said.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I think you laid that out very beautifully, and in
my healed perspective, now I agree, it's an equivalent exchange. Yeah,
everything in life is a transaction and whether people want
to acknowledge it or not, marriage is a lifelong transaction
and the things that we feed into one another matters.
(27:49):
When I was young, had very high narcissistic traits. I
had unchecked borderline personality. It is now very checked, very real.
Then I was a mess, and borderline personality disorder and
narcissistic personality disorder bleed.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Lines a lot.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Yeah, And I did believe that I deserved all of
the love and the affection and the caring from the
man because I'm a woman, I'm a princess.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I deserve to be doted on and and flip.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Subhuman really is the term that comes to my mind
when I think about the way that I used to
process how I felt about men. And I hate to
say this, I believe that due to social media, and
it also could be the algorithm of things, and we
just get a little pocket of sour and then that
(28:42):
moves on and then overall things are getting better. But
I feel like that mindset that I once had ten
fifteen years ago, even though we are on an I
might be making this word up word up epitex.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
No, that's a word is it.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
I feel like we're getting ready to teeter over and
fall down. Either way.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I love that you're encouraging it. Thanks for the support
in that one.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
It has gotten there.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
The echo chamber of that mindset that women are above
men in those areas has gotten really.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Bad, Like it's thick. The sludge is in there.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Do you think so talking on women being in those
men's spaces, knowing that wives have such an integral role
in their husband's lives, a lot of women. I'm all
over the place right now, So I'm saying a bunch
of shit. Hopefully it strings.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
All the pats in the world with that.
Speaker 4 (29:54):
Don't worry, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So we know for a fact that women are less
likely to speak up for themselves in professional situations, they
are less likely to ask for a raise, whatever the
case may be, in moments where the defense of their
husband comes into play. Knowing that women are less likely
all ready to speak up in certain situations, and then
(30:18):
adding in that thought process of well, he's a man,
he should be able to uphold himself, and then just
kind of leaves him to the wolves. Do you think
women speaking up more may get to those women who
are stuck in that echo chamber of men are subhuman,
all those kinds of things. What kind of conversations do
(30:40):
you think women who want to start entering into the
sphere and looking out for not just their husbands but
maybe their husband's brothers or even their own sons, What
are some conversations they should start initiating.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Oh, man, it starts with the with the men in
your lives.
Speaker 5 (30:58):
If you want to if you want to have empathy
and understanding, you know, towards men, It definitely starts with
having learning to have the empathy.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And understanding for people that you already care about. I
feel like it's just kind of human psychology, right, Like
if we see something happening to someone we don't know,
we're less likely to care rather than it happening to somebody.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Close to us.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And you know, obviously that's tricky because a lot of
men don't open up even when you ask them. But
if you can, you know, get some perspective, whether it's
from male friends, from you know, your partner, from your brother,
from your dad, it really just kind of starts with
that conversation of like what do you go through, what
do you deal with? What's something that you know plagues
(31:43):
you when you sleep at night. Starting that's really all
where it starts, I think, because that's that's just where
it started for me, was was being around men and
not even having to ask those questions because it didn't
really occur to me. It was just something that I gradually,
you know, learned, And so I have found I've gotten
(32:06):
emails and comments many times over the years from women
who have said, you know, these were my perspectives, Like
I really was like a man hater, and you know,
you helped me kind of open my eyes a little
bit and see that you know, what I was doing
was wrong and it was jaded. And I so appreciate
those comments because it makes me feel like I'm making
(32:27):
a real difference in this world. But at one hundred
percent starts with just trying to understand the men around
you and getting their perspective. You know, if your husband says,
you know, I'm afraid that what if I can't provide
everything that I'm providing.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Will you look at me differently? Will you stop loving me?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Like that's a pretty deep thought, right, So even hearing
something like that from our partner puts into perspective, Oh
my god, if my man's feeling like this, this is
the pressure that other men are dealing with, and we
don't as women, we're not necessarily raise to think about
that boys are raised. I feel like to have girls
in like the forefront of their mind right, Like, don't
(33:07):
you know, I have a son, and I'm going to
teach him one hundred percent, like you don't.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Call women the B word.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
You don't you know, practice any locker room talk in
front of women or with your buddies, Like, we just
don't treat.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Women like that. His dad is very on board as well.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But we spend so much time teaching our daughters kind
of how to protect themselves and what to expect from men,
but we don't teach them what they need to do
in return the care that.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
They have to have.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And so that's something that you know, I teach my
daughter too, Like when she's at school, I say, hey, like,
don't you know, don't ever hit boys, don't ever you know,
kick them in the balls. It hurts, and we'll never
understand that pain. Never make fun of a boy who's crying.
Don't body shame your stepdad and call him bald and fat,
Like you know, there's like things that we have to
(34:01):
teach our girls too, so that when she gets older,
you know, she's not having these epiphanies being like oh shit,
like you know, I had it wrong this whole time,
because you never know the kind of damage that she
could do in the meantime just not validating or potentially
you know, some bully behavior. So I feel like we
(34:22):
really need to we need to teach both genders, and
right now that's not happening, and I feel like that's
what causes a lot of this discourse.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
So if you know, and.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Fathers as well, you guys need to open up to
your children, open up to your son, open up to
your daughter, and you know, kind of give them the
perspective as well. And it's not you know, again, when
I talk about this, a lot of women are like, well,
you know, why did you teach your daughter that you're
just as somebody said, I'm just grooming my daughter to
(34:54):
be abused by men because I'm teaching her to like
care is crazy.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
That was one of the wildest comments I think I've
ever gotten.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
But there is this perspective that the moment you try
to teach women or little girls a male perspective, that
you're just like oppressing them, weakening them, which never made
any sense to me.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
But that's a sure way to go downhill fast.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
We're never going to make progress if that's what we're
convincing girls, that caring is.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Like weakness, right. I agree.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
I believe that we as women, and a lot of
women don't recognize us, we hold a lot of power
just in being women, and we hold a lot of
power over men in being women.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Yeah, there is.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
In my mind a lot of subconscious trust and dependency
in men on women because of what we can provide
emotionally and spiritually for them. And that being severed or disconnected,
in my mind, is like being You're now stuck in
the arctic night time, you don't have a fire, you're
(36:05):
by yourself.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Hopefully you make it until the morning.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
It's really sad to think about, and I really hope
that my son never has to go through that with
whom he chooses to be with. Yeah, and a lot
of women fall into that mindset of well, I'm not
going to help him with anything. And one of the
biggest reasons so that an erosion can happen in a
foundation of relationship as a I'm going to say this
(36:31):
the one time, and then afterwards we're gonna have to
refer to it as corn a pornography addiction.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yeah, so what is your opinion on.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That in general in relationships and men using it before
we continue on in that conversation corn addictions.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, well, I think it's I think corn addictions and
relationships are incredibly damaging. I've seen, you know, I have
a close friend whose husband is actually dealing with h
with one of those addictions. He was like a Mormon,
I think, or not not Mormon. It was that religion
(37:11):
that's like they're like off the map and they don't uh,
you know, involve themselves with social media or electronics.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
I can't remember, huh, mennonits.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Mennonite maybe maybe if it's something like that, I can't remember.
But it's one of those like, you know, pretty extreme
Amish Amish amishka Amish. So when he left his like
Amish Amish culture, you know, he got exposed to a
lot of things that he wasn't exposed to before, and
coren addiction, you know, that came very heavy for him,
(37:43):
as it does many men that actually leave those types
of religious groups, they get exposed to to social media
and all these things, and it heavily affected her confidence, uh,
their relationship, their intimacy.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Uh, it's a huge, huge problem.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I feel like people downplay corn addictions a lot, but
it puts a huge wedge in relationships and I've and
I've seen it.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, Yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
That is.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
One of the biggest hurts that I hear from women,
not just on on the podcast, but in general being
shouted into the void of the Internet that men can't
be trusted. Once a cheater, always a cheater. People are
now using AI and are creating chat robots to have
this interaction with instead of going to conography websites.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
It's a whole thing.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
We know that, as you just touched on, he left
the Amish Amish community and was just kind of thrown
into the deep end of all of these massive dopamine hits,
super quick rapid recession, back to back to back.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
And it's not just dopamine hits that are happening.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
There is oxytocin being released after the fact, and after
that dopamine hit and that oxotosin starts hitting in he
is now associating that dopamine release to what's going on
with his phone this object is giving me this dopamine
that primal brain is associating those two. So, having witnesses
(39:24):
in the capacity that you have, and having the understanding
that you have in this, do you believe that there
should be a little bit more leeway and understanding in
the way men are brought up and maybe are exposed
pornography and maybe have a little bit more grace in
trying to combat these things in a marriage or a
long term relationship.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, I think they're definitely exposed to it heavy, almost
kind of pre dispositioned to these issues, and you know,
it's only gonna get worse. There's been a lot of
studies they've been studying this really hardcore for the last
like five years about adolescence and pornography.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
And I might actually have the uh, I might actually
have the statistics right here.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
But there's a bunch of studies that's being done about
pornography and who's being exposed to it, and yeah, right here.
So in the United States, seventy three percent of US
teens say that they've seen online you know, graphic content.
(40:33):
This is uh, fifty four percent sought by the age
of thirteen. The average first exposure age is twelve and
fifty eight percent that the exposure said that the exposure
was accidental, So that's algorithms, reposts, group chats, social media feats.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
A lot of.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Kids are now because of the uproar, and you know,
only fans making you know, basically like soft core corn
on your social media to promote it. These are now
coming across children's pages where they are now like unconsensually
getting exposed to this stuff. Australia is the same seventy
(41:15):
five percent of adolescents That means before sixteen encountered online corn,
thirty nine percent we're under the age of thirteen and
forty percent said that the exposure was accidental.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
So we're now in a world of social.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Media where you don't have to just go to that
specific website to get exposed to this stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Kids are being exposed to it now right on their screen.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And when you look at that, I mean it causes
issues for girls and boys. Girls teenage girls are dealing
with a lot more feelings of shame, not feeling worthy
comparing themselves to other women. Eating disorders are very much
on the rise for our younger generation like Jen Alpha
(42:01):
and boys, you know they're being predispositioned even harder to
these addictions now because they're everywhere, and there's this normalization
in a sense in society about this type of like
you know, sex work and only fans, and you know,
we're telling boys that like if you don't like that,
you're insecure, and kind of like there's this whole brainwashing
(42:23):
where we're almost trying to normalize it, but nobody's thinking
about what normalizing it the effects it's going to have, right,
Like porn addictions or sorry, corn addictions have really negative
effects on relationships. It changes the way that boys and
men view women, negative expectations when it comes to the bedroom,
(42:44):
negative expectations on women, higher rates of misogyny, higher rates
of misogyny that ends in sexual violence. These are all
things that are directly attributed to this over glamorization of
this industry, and it's it's only going to get worse,
and truthfully, I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
To combat it, especially as a boy mom.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
I have a boy and a girl, and I have
no idea what I'm going to do in that aspect
other than just keep them off social media and do
my best. Because it's getting bad, and especially when we're
normalizing it now. It's no longer this like dirty thing
that we know we shouldn't look at or do.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
It's now actually just accepted.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
But it's accepted on the girl's end, Like it's accepted
to make it and to do it, but it's not
accepted for boys to like watch it, which I would agree,
but I think it's both ends.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Neither of us should be doing it.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
We can't be doing it and then punishing the other
gender for like watching it. Like we have some responsibility,
you know, not trying to victim blame anybody, It's just
we have some responsibility that I don't really think anybody
wants to talk about.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
I agree with that one percent. And I do believe that.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
Women as a whole, the one who are producing it
for it to be watched, have a hand in it.
And I believe the women who are staying silent and
not holding women to a standard of not doing those
kinds of things have a hand in it as well. Yeah,
so we are coming up on the last ten minutes.
Wanted to give a little bit warning, write it with
by so quick.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
I know.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
I love the way this conversation is going. I would
love to do another interview with you. If you are
open to that, we can plan something for the future.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
But in the last do you guys do in person?
I would love to come there and sit on your
fancy couch.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Yeah. I can definitely talk to husband. We can figure
something out.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, I would love to. I would love to fly
down there, Like, I'll cover the costs. I don't expect
you guys to, but yeah, I would love to. I
think it'd be so cool.
Speaker 4 (44:43):
Yeah, that would be dope.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
I think that I'm all about energy exchanges and in
person interactions, so I'm on board.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
In the last ten minutes, what are any final thoughts,
any final messages that you would like to to send
out to the to be Better community and beyond.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, I mean, I just really appreciate what you guys do.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I appreciate that you guys, I've created your own.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Safe space for men.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I see men coming forward to you guys all the time,
asking for advice, you know, on how they can express
themselves better to their wives. I can see wives like
that one video that your husband and you did where
a wife was I think she was asking how to
support her husband when her husband is saying like negative
self thoughts things to himself, and I just think it's
(45:34):
really important. And you know, anybody, especially any man that
comes forward and seeks help, whether it's anonymously or you know,
through podcast platforms. I just want to, you know, commend you,
because it starts with you. And if we can teach
men through example that it's safe to open up and
(45:54):
that it's okay, they will push that on to like
their younger generation, their son, it's their little brothers, you know,
And so I think it's just really important. I think
what you and your husband do is just so valuable
to society and you know, to the men watching, I
just want you to like do your best to shut
(46:14):
out the noise from social media.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Shut out you.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Know, the women that are like, you know, women aren't
gonna love you unless you make a certain amount of money,
and just don't listen to any of that because in
real life, it's not really reality. You're probably not going
to run into these women that are like, well you
have to make six figures.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You know, you may run into like.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
A narcissistic woman or an abuser, but these women on
social media that are like setting the standard for.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
You guys, don't listen to it.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's completely fake, it's not real, and just keep focusing
on yourself and don't be afraid to open up to
the women in your lives because a lot of them
do care that they want to care you just you know,
got to take that step to open up, which.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Is granted, it's a scary step, but it's an important one.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
So I agree.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's my tidbit.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
The only thing I want to a little tiny tack
onto that is, don't be afraid to set boundaries. It's
not controlling, it is not overbearing. You have a right
to say what you will and will not accept in
your life from women, and yeah, fuck them if they
say otherwise.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Yeah they're not the right person for you for sure.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah alrighty with that, I would like to thank you
so much for being here again.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
This has been absolutely delightful.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Thank you so much, and shout out to my cousin.
I love you because I hate it.
Speaker 4 (47:41):
What was her name? Hello, Cassandra, she's here. We did
it together. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
This filled my cup. I feel really good about this conversation,
and thank you all for tuning in. Thank you for
taking a moment and allowing roma Arma to be a
little mouthpiece for men's advocacy, and and and actually hearing
the words, and and not getting pissed off at the
messenger m hm.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
And with that we will see you guys on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Bye.
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