September 4, 2025 • 16 mins
Insiders at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say the agency is in chaos.
Last week, the White House fired CDC Director Susan Monarez after less than a month in the role.
Insiders say the agency is no longer able to provide reliable health guidance to Americans as it faces resignations, funding cuts, and a replacement of vaccine advisers with skeptics who have expressed anti-vaccine views.
Today, staff writer at The Atlantic on what Monarez’s firing signals about the Trump administration’s health agenda – and what it means for vaccine policy and trust in public health.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: Staff writer at The Atlantic, Tom Bartlett.
Photo: Tom Williams/CQ-Roll Call/Sipa USA
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The CDC director makes the decision on whether a vaccine
should be recommended to the public and does not have
to follow recommendations passed by ASIP.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What will you do if the.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Committee votes to remove vaccines from the vaccine schedule or
do not approve new ones in opposition to clear established science.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So if I'm confirmed as a CDC director, I will
be an active listener and will be very interested in
the discussions that take place at the ACIP meetings.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I will be jewing.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Has Senate confirmation hearing, Susan Manaraz, the director of the
Sentence for Disease Control, faced a number of questions about vaccinations.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think we need to make sure that we are
providing transparent and clear effective communications about the benefits and
the risks associated with vaccines so parents can make informed
decision making for themselves.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's because Health secret Trade Rob F. Kennedy Jr.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
Has pushed a number of disc credited views linking vaccines
with autism. During her hearing, Manares refuted that view, but
last week she was ousted from the CDC less than
a month after.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Being sworn in.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Insiders within the agency say it's no longer able to
provide reliable health guidance to Americans as it faces resignations,
funding cuts, and a replacement of vaccine advisors with skeptics
who have also expressed anti VAX's views, and with a
footprint that spans more than sixty countries, the impact will
be felt beyond the US. I'm Ruby Jones and you're
(01:36):
listening to seven Am Today staff writer at The Atlantic
Tom Bartlett on what Manaras is firing says about the
Trump administration's health agenda and what it means for vaccine
policy and trust in public health.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's Friday, September five, So.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Tom, thank you, thank you so much for speaking with me.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome to seven AM.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you've been.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Reporting on the resignations at the very top of the CDC,
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and that is
after the very newly swarning director Susan Manaras was sacked.
So to begin with, can you tell me a bit
about her and why she was fine?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
So, yeah, she'd been in that position for less than
a month. Prior to that, she was the acting director
at the CDC. I mean, she's a PhD in microbiology
and immunology. She has a long and distinguished career as
a researcher and as a science administrator. When she was
sworn in in July, Robert F. Kennedy, our Secretary of
Health and Human Services, called her a public health expert
(02:43):
with unimpeachable scientific credentials.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
I'm very happy to have doctor Manari's a board. She
comes to us from our age. She's a TechEd genius,
and she's going to drive AI modernized CDC's data systems,
and we're going to be able to.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
Provide for so exactly why she was fired, I think
we don't know. I mean, there were, you know, behind
the scenes arguments about vaccine policy, about how advice is
getting to certain people who are making decisions, who gets
to present information to whom. All that's very in the
weeds and very bureaucratic, but it's also sort of very
important because it is, you know, whose voices are being
(03:21):
listened to, who gets to speak to Kennedy. The White
House says that she was not supportive of the president's agenda.
Speaker 8 (03:28):
She was not aligned with the president's mission to make
America healthy again, and the Secretary asked her to resign.
She said she would and then she said she wouldn't,
so the President fired her, which he has every right
to do.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Through her lawyer, Susan Monrez says that she refused to
rubber stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fired dedicated health experts,
and so there are conflicting stories there, and so yeah,
that's where things stand.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
As you began reporting on what was going on within
the CDC, you spoke to some of her colleagues have
decided to resign. So tell me about those conversations and
how they reached that decision.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
So there were four resignations total, all senior officials.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Tonight, we're falling breaking news out of the CDC where
top officials are resigning in mass after sudden changes to
code vaccine policies renounced earlier today this afternoon.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Those resignations were Deborah Howry, who was the chief Medical officer.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
America's public health is significantly in danger, and Dmitrie Dan
and I chose to leave together to.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Send that that signal, essentially our departure, we hope will
be a wake.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Up call for the Senate and others.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
Dmitri des Glacis, who was the director of the National
Center for immunization and respiratory diseases.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
I'm seeing CDC being transformed into a weapon where people
are not allowed to share scientific data, and that that's
scientific data is potentially going to be contaminated more and
more with ideology.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Than Daniel Jernigan, who directed the National Center for Emerging
and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases, we.
Speaker 10 (05:09):
Were getting requests for data. We were trying to get
that data available for the administration to look at, but
we just have no ida exactly what they are planning
to do with it. We need to get politics out
of public health.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
I say all those titles because those are quite important positions,
and these are long time public health officials. They have
had concerns with the Vaccine Advisory Board and the people
that Robert F. Kennedy had put on that board. Dmitri
Dosclacas said that this was really evidence of the replacement
of science with ideology. I think the most remarkable thing
(05:47):
that he said, and he said to me and he
said to others, is that members of his group were
not allowed to brief the Secretary on important issues like
you know, vaccines for polio or measles or COVID and
the sort of things you would want the secretary to
look the experts for and they said they were in
fact not allowed, that they had asked to brief Kennedy
(06:08):
and were told were told yes, and then those meetings
never happened.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So tell me more about that board, the Vaccine Advisory
Board and the types of people that RFK Jr.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Assigned to it.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Well, so there's this thing called this ACIP board, which
is this Vaccine Advisory Board, and in June Kennedy got
rid of all seventeen people that were on it. Any
put in place eight people.
Speaker 7 (06:32):
Oh, there's a lot of trouble at CDC, and it
just can require getting rid of some people all the
long term in order for us to change the institutional.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Culture, some of whom are very sympathetic to his views
on vaccines, which many people consider to be anti vaccine views.
So people like Robert Malone, who's been very against COVID
mRNA shots.
Speaker 11 (06:53):
What we're doing by excessively using vaccine inappropriately for people
who don't really need it, is that we're driving the
virus to be able to escape through evolutionary selection. The
benefits of the vaccine.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
Someone named Vicki Pebsworth, who is a long time believer
that vaccines cause autism, which has just been disproven in
study after study, and so he put on a number
of people, perhaps not all of whom, but a number
of people who are sympathetic to Kennedy's long standing views
on vaccines. This is the source of the conflict, and
(07:31):
part of the reason that Dmitri, desk Glocus, and Deb
Howry left is they're feeling that this board was not
going to listen to their advice and was not going
to listen to the science, and so doesn't have people
who were sufficiently qualified to be making these really important recommendations.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
So, if this was the tipping point, can you tell
me a bit more about what it was like at
the CDC up to this point, Because since RFK Junior
took over, the agency has lost a quarter of its staff,
there have been deep cuts in funding for public health projects.
So I suppose my question is what kept them there
for that long?
Speaker 6 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean they've said that they wanted to stay
there to hold the line, to do what good that
they could do, to promote policies they believe would be
helpful to the American people, to perhaps argue against changes
that they felt would be negative.
Speaker 9 (08:22):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:23):
One of them told me like staying there at this
point would be doing more harm than good because they
would be feeling and I'm paraphrasing, but they would be
feeling as if they were co signing what RFK Junior
was promoting. But I mean, in general, when I've spoken
to former members of the CDC, I've spoken to people
who are still there, morale is low, sort of to
(08:43):
put it mildly, there are people a lot of people
who are looking to leave. I hear there are more
people who are planning to leave, including senior officials. You know.
One of them told me, you know, we went through
COVID and those were really difficult times, but this, in
many ways is worse. One of them told me, of
this is this since quote people are at their withs end,
There's been trauma after trauma after trauma. I just don't
(09:05):
know how much more our staff can take. So that's
the situation.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Coming up.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
The tech investor with no medical history or training now
picked to lead the CDC.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
TOM.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
At this point, there are still unanswered questions as to
whether Susan minar is As firing was actually legal or not.
But regardless, she's being replaced, So tell me about then
you pick to lead the CDC.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
So his name is Jim O'Neill, and he has been
a healthcare advisor. He was previously a manager of a
venture capital firm for Peter Teal, who Peter Teel is
a long time Trump backer. Jimini knows someone who comes
from operations and from investing, and I believe from biotech investing.
Speaker 12 (09:56):
Eager to rejoin HHS and reform our food system to
prayer health for a children and parents, pursue gold standard
basic in translational research that replicates use science, economics, and
artificial intelligence to improve the quality and affordability of healthcare.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
He's not a physician, he doesn't have a background in
scientific research. He's not an epidemiologist, whoor an immunologist. Almost
always in these positions of the person who is the
director is a medical doctor, and so it is unusual,
and I believe unprecedented to have someone in this position
who doesn't have a medical or scientific background. The fear
(10:34):
among CDC officials I've spoken to in CDC researchers is
that there aren't voices to sort of push back against
things that Kennedy would want to do. And there is
at least the perception that O'Neill wouldn't have the background
or the knowledge to make recommendations and to offer maybe
a counter voice to some of Kennedy's ideas or policy decisions. So,
(10:58):
I mean, I think that's a big question mark, but
it's something that I think has a lot of people concerned.
And when I asked, you know, you know, where does
the CDC go from here from? You know, when I
asked that to CDC officials, they just sort of say
they don't know, and they're worried.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Tell me a bit more about what we know about
what Kennedy wants to do, particularly when it comes to
vaccine policy.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Well, one of the things that has happened so far,
a solid thing that's happened is the recommendation for pregnant
women and young children who are otherwise healthy, the recommendation
for them to get the COVID shot has been removed.
So that's like a solid thing that's happened. There were
a lot of CDC officials who felt like the science
didn't back that change and that they were concerned about that.
(11:38):
But one of the things we're waiting for is there
later this month There'll be another meeting of this influential
Vaccine Advisory Board, and we don't know what the next
recommendations would be, but I think there's a lot of
concern that some of those recommendations will be changed and
will sort of continue with this policy or with this
agenda of saying that people shouldn't get the COVID shots.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Spent a long time reporting on health and science and
the anti vaccine movement. So what impact do you think
that RFK Junior is having more broadly on the health
of Americans right now?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
I mean one thing though, for those who haven't followed
his career closely, I mean, really, for the last twenty years,
his views on vaccines, which are not consistent with the
mainstream of experts. Those views have been really his primary concern.
He's written multiple books. He helped found an organization called
Children's Health Defense, which sort of promotes what people would
consider to be anti vaccine view So this has been
(12:36):
very much Kennedy's main endeavor for quite some time. We
had a measles outbreak here in the United States a
few months ago.
Speaker 13 (12:43):
At least one hundred and fifty five people have been
hospitalized across the country, and three people have died, including
two otherwise healthy children in Texas and a man in
New Mexico, all of whom were unvaccinated.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
Kennedy is not responsible for that measles outbreak, but his
respect to that raised a lot of eyebrows. He recommended
treatments like vitamin A and cod liver oil and steroids
and seem to de emphasize the vaccination that we know
is effective for measles.
Speaker 7 (13:13):
People get measles because they don't vaccine. They get mazes
because the vaccine WANs it's a leaky vaccine, and that
problem is always going to be around. We're delivering vitamin
A and they're getting very very good results. They report udesinied,
which is a steroid. It's a thirty year old steroid.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
That's one of the just general concerns when we have
an outbreaker, we have a problem where we have something
that requires a well informed sort of voice, you know,
at the top of our government. You know, if something
more significing or severe happens. There's just concern that Kennedy's
not going to give the right guidance to the American people.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
And given the CDC's role, and I suppose just the
role of American research in general, How should we be
thinking about the potential global consequences of what's happening at
the moment.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I mean, so there are a number of countries who
look to this board, this Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices,
and in some cases, you know, base their recommendations on
that board's recommendations. And so as those recommendations change, you know,
I guess we will see whether countries still pay attention
to what ACIP says, or given all the turmoil, maybe
(14:25):
they will just disregard it. But you know, there's beyond
the sort of policy specifics, there's just sort of generally
the message of the United States is sending about vaccines,
and we're sending a mixed message in a lot of
cases about the proven value of the mRNA shots or
the proven value of the MMR shot, and so both
(14:49):
policy and sort of specific stuff, but also just generally
the message for sending to the world. I know, public
heal health fishals have a lot of concerns about that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, Tom, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Sure, thank you guys.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Also in the news today, the federal government has ann
outstall pay an additional four hundred and seventy five million
dollars to victims of the Robodet scheme. The settlement, which
is subject to approval from the Federal Court, is an
addition to the more than one point eight billion dollar
payout handed down in twenty twenty to the victims of
the Botch debt recovery scheme, which used tax office data
(15:34):
to illegally issue debt notices to wealthare recipients, many.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Of which were falsely calculated.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
And the full cost of Australia's deal to deport hundreds
of former immigration detainees to NARU has been revealed during
a late night Senate inquiry. The Albanese government signed a
memorandum of understanding with NARU, offering more than four hundred
million dollars upfront and seventy million each subsequent year in
exchange for NARU taking.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Hundreds of former detainees.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Responding to questions from the Senate, immigration officials revealed the
deal with cost taxpayers up to two point five billion
dollars over the next three decades.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.
The CDC director makes the decision on whether a vaccine
should be recommended to the public and does not have
to follow recommendations passed by ASIP.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
What will you do if the.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Committee votes to remove vaccines from the vaccine schedule or
do not approve new ones in opposition to clear established science.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
So if I'm confirmed as a CDC director, I will
be an active listener and will be very interested in
the discussions that take place at the ACIP meetings.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
I will be jewing.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Has Senate confirmation hearing, Susan Manaraz, the director of the
Sentence for Disease Control, faced a number of questions about vaccinations.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think we need to make sure that we are
providing transparent and clear effective communications about the benefits and
the risks associated with vaccines so parents can make informed
decision making for themselves.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's because Health secret Trade Rob F. Kennedy Jr.
Speaker 5 (00:58):
Has pushed a number of disc credited views linking vaccines
with autism. During her hearing, Manares refuted that view, but
last week she was ousted from the CDC less than
a month after.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Being sworn in.
Speaker 5 (01:11):
Insiders within the agency say it's no longer able to
provide reliable health guidance to Americans as it faces resignations,
funding cuts, and a replacement of vaccine advisors with skeptics
who have also expressed anti VAX's views, and with a
footprint that spans more than sixty countries, the impact will
be felt beyond the US. I'm Ruby Jones and you're
(01:36):
listening to seven Am Today staff writer at The Atlantic
Tom Bartlett on what Manaras is firing says about the
Trump administration's health agenda and what it means for vaccine
policy and trust in public health.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's Friday, September five, So.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Tom, thank you, thank you so much for speaking with me.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Welcome to seven AM.
Speaker 6 (02:02):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you've been.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
Reporting on the resignations at the very top of the CDC,
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and that is
after the very newly swarning director Susan Manaras was sacked.
So to begin with, can you tell me a bit
about her and why she was fine?
Speaker 6 (02:20):
So, yeah, she'd been in that position for less than
a month. Prior to that, she was the acting director
at the CDC. I mean, she's a PhD in microbiology
and immunology. She has a long and distinguished career as
a researcher and as a science administrator. When she was
sworn in in July, Robert F. Kennedy, our Secretary of
Health and Human Services, called her a public health expert
(02:43):
with unimpeachable scientific credentials.
Speaker 7 (02:46):
I'm very happy to have doctor Manari's a board. She
comes to us from our age. She's a TechEd genius,
and she's going to drive AI modernized CDC's data systems,
and we're going to be able to.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
Provide for so exactly why she was fired, I think
we don't know. I mean, there were, you know, behind
the scenes arguments about vaccine policy, about how advice is
getting to certain people who are making decisions, who gets
to present information to whom. All that's very in the
weeds and very bureaucratic, but it's also sort of very
important because it is, you know, whose voices are being
(03:21):
listened to, who gets to speak to Kennedy. The White
House says that she was not supportive of the president's agenda.
Speaker 8 (03:28):
She was not aligned with the president's mission to make
America healthy again, and the Secretary asked her to resign.
She said she would and then she said she wouldn't,
so the President fired her, which he has every right
to do.
Speaker 6 (03:41):
Through her lawyer, Susan Monrez says that she refused to
rubber stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fired dedicated health experts,
and so there are conflicting stories there, and so yeah,
that's where things stand.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
As you began reporting on what was going on within
the CDC, you spoke to some of her colleagues have
decided to resign. So tell me about those conversations and
how they reached that decision.
Speaker 6 (04:10):
So there were four resignations total, all senior officials.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Tonight, we're falling breaking news out of the CDC where
top officials are resigning in mass after sudden changes to
code vaccine policies renounced earlier today this afternoon.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
Those resignations were Deborah Howry, who was the chief Medical officer.
Speaker 5 (04:31):
America's public health is significantly in danger, and Dmitrie Dan
and I chose to leave together to.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Send that that signal, essentially our departure, we hope will
be a wake.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Up call for the Senate and others.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
Dmitri des Glacis, who was the director of the National
Center for immunization and respiratory diseases.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
I'm seeing CDC being transformed into a weapon where people
are not allowed to share scientific data, and that that's
scientific data is potentially going to be contaminated more and
more with ideology.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
Than Daniel Jernigan, who directed the National Center for Emerging
and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases, we.
Speaker 10 (05:09):
Were getting requests for data. We were trying to get
that data available for the administration to look at, but
we just have no ida exactly what they are planning
to do with it. We need to get politics out
of public health.
Speaker 6 (05:25):
I say all those titles because those are quite important positions,
and these are long time public health officials. They have
had concerns with the Vaccine Advisory Board and the people
that Robert F. Kennedy had put on that board. Dmitri
Dosclacas said that this was really evidence of the replacement
of science with ideology. I think the most remarkable thing
(05:47):
that he said, and he said to me and he
said to others, is that members of his group were
not allowed to brief the Secretary on important issues like
you know, vaccines for polio or measles or COVID and
the sort of things you would want the secretary to
look the experts for and they said they were in
fact not allowed, that they had asked to brief Kennedy
(06:08):
and were told were told yes, and then those meetings
never happened.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
So tell me more about that board, the Vaccine Advisory
Board and the types of people that RFK Jr.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Assigned to it.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
Well, so there's this thing called this ACIP board, which
is this Vaccine Advisory Board, and in June Kennedy got
rid of all seventeen people that were on it. Any
put in place eight people.
Speaker 7 (06:32):
Oh, there's a lot of trouble at CDC, and it
just can require getting rid of some people all the
long term in order for us to change the institutional.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
Culture, some of whom are very sympathetic to his views
on vaccines, which many people consider to be anti vaccine views.
So people like Robert Malone, who's been very against COVID
mRNA shots.
Speaker 11 (06:53):
What we're doing by excessively using vaccine inappropriately for people
who don't really need it, is that we're driving the
virus to be able to escape through evolutionary selection. The
benefits of the vaccine.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
Someone named Vicki Pebsworth, who is a long time believer
that vaccines cause autism, which has just been disproven in
study after study, and so he put on a number
of people, perhaps not all of whom, but a number
of people who are sympathetic to Kennedy's long standing views
on vaccines. This is the source of the conflict, and
(07:31):
part of the reason that Dmitri, desk Glocus, and Deb
Howry left is they're feeling that this board was not
going to listen to their advice and was not going
to listen to the science, and so doesn't have people
who were sufficiently qualified to be making these really important recommendations.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
So, if this was the tipping point, can you tell
me a bit more about what it was like at
the CDC up to this point, Because since RFK Junior
took over, the agency has lost a quarter of its staff,
there have been deep cuts in funding for public health projects.
So I suppose my question is what kept them there
for that long?
Speaker 6 (08:07):
Yeah, I mean they've said that they wanted to stay
there to hold the line, to do what good that
they could do, to promote policies they believe would be
helpful to the American people, to perhaps argue against changes
that they felt would be negative.
Speaker 9 (08:22):
You know.
Speaker 6 (08:23):
One of them told me like staying there at this
point would be doing more harm than good because they
would be feeling and I'm paraphrasing, but they would be
feeling as if they were co signing what RFK Junior
was promoting. But I mean, in general, when I've spoken
to former members of the CDC, I've spoken to people
who are still there, morale is low, sort of to
(08:43):
put it mildly, there are people a lot of people
who are looking to leave. I hear there are more
people who are planning to leave, including senior officials. You know.
One of them told me, you know, we went through
COVID and those were really difficult times, but this, in
many ways is worse. One of them told me, of
this is this since quote people are at their withs end,
There's been trauma after trauma after trauma. I just don't
(09:05):
know how much more our staff can take. So that's
the situation.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Coming up.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
The tech investor with no medical history or training now
picked to lead the CDC.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
TOM.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
At this point, there are still unanswered questions as to
whether Susan minar is As firing was actually legal or not.
But regardless, she's being replaced, So tell me about then
you pick to lead the CDC.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
So his name is Jim O'Neill, and he has been
a healthcare advisor. He was previously a manager of a
venture capital firm for Peter Teal, who Peter Teel is
a long time Trump backer. Jimini knows someone who comes
from operations and from investing, and I believe from biotech investing.
Speaker 12 (09:56):
Eager to rejoin HHS and reform our food system to
prayer health for a children and parents, pursue gold standard
basic in translational research that replicates use science, economics, and
artificial intelligence to improve the quality and affordability of healthcare.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
He's not a physician, he doesn't have a background in
scientific research. He's not an epidemiologist, whoor an immunologist. Almost
always in these positions of the person who is the
director is a medical doctor, and so it is unusual,
and I believe unprecedented to have someone in this position
who doesn't have a medical or scientific background. The fear
(10:34):
among CDC officials I've spoken to in CDC researchers is
that there aren't voices to sort of push back against
things that Kennedy would want to do. And there is
at least the perception that O'Neill wouldn't have the background
or the knowledge to make recommendations and to offer maybe
a counter voice to some of Kennedy's ideas or policy decisions. So,
(10:58):
I mean, I think that's a big question mark, but
it's something that I think has a lot of people concerned.
And when I asked, you know, you know, where does
the CDC go from here from? You know, when I
asked that to CDC officials, they just sort of say
they don't know, and they're worried.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Tell me a bit more about what we know about
what Kennedy wants to do, particularly when it comes to
vaccine policy.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Well, one of the things that has happened so far,
a solid thing that's happened is the recommendation for pregnant
women and young children who are otherwise healthy, the recommendation
for them to get the COVID shot has been removed.
So that's like a solid thing that's happened. There were
a lot of CDC officials who felt like the science
didn't back that change and that they were concerned about that.
(11:38):
But one of the things we're waiting for is there
later this month There'll be another meeting of this influential
Vaccine Advisory Board, and we don't know what the next
recommendations would be, but I think there's a lot of
concern that some of those recommendations will be changed and
will sort of continue with this policy or with this
agenda of saying that people shouldn't get the COVID shots.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Spent a long time reporting on health and science and
the anti vaccine movement. So what impact do you think
that RFK Junior is having more broadly on the health
of Americans right now?
Speaker 6 (12:14):
I mean one thing though, for those who haven't followed
his career closely, I mean, really, for the last twenty years,
his views on vaccines, which are not consistent with the
mainstream of experts. Those views have been really his primary concern.
He's written multiple books. He helped found an organization called
Children's Health Defense, which sort of promotes what people would
consider to be anti vaccine view So this has been
(12:36):
very much Kennedy's main endeavor for quite some time. We
had a measles outbreak here in the United States a
few months ago.
Speaker 13 (12:43):
At least one hundred and fifty five people have been
hospitalized across the country, and three people have died, including
two otherwise healthy children in Texas and a man in
New Mexico, all of whom were unvaccinated.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
Kennedy is not responsible for that measles outbreak, but his
respect to that raised a lot of eyebrows. He recommended
treatments like vitamin A and cod liver oil and steroids
and seem to de emphasize the vaccination that we know
is effective for measles.
Speaker 7 (13:13):
People get measles because they don't vaccine. They get mazes
because the vaccine WANs it's a leaky vaccine, and that
problem is always going to be around. We're delivering vitamin
A and they're getting very very good results. They report udesinied,
which is a steroid. It's a thirty year old steroid.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
That's one of the just general concerns when we have
an outbreaker, we have a problem where we have something
that requires a well informed sort of voice, you know,
at the top of our government. You know, if something
more significing or severe happens. There's just concern that Kennedy's
not going to give the right guidance to the American people.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
And given the CDC's role, and I suppose just the
role of American research in general, How should we be
thinking about the potential global consequences of what's happening at
the moment.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
I mean, so there are a number of countries who
look to this board, this Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices,
and in some cases, you know, base their recommendations on
that board's recommendations. And so as those recommendations change, you know,
I guess we will see whether countries still pay attention
to what ACIP says, or given all the turmoil, maybe
(14:25):
they will just disregard it. But you know, there's beyond
the sort of policy specifics, there's just sort of generally
the message of the United States is sending about vaccines,
and we're sending a mixed message in a lot of
cases about the proven value of the mRNA shots or
the proven value of the MMR shot, and so both
(14:49):
policy and sort of specific stuff, but also just generally
the message for sending to the world. I know, public
heal health fishals have a lot of concerns about that.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, Tom, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 6 (15:00):
Sure, thank you guys.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Also in the news today, the federal government has ann
outstall pay an additional four hundred and seventy five million
dollars to victims of the Robodet scheme. The settlement, which
is subject to approval from the Federal Court, is an
addition to the more than one point eight billion dollar
payout handed down in twenty twenty to the victims of
the Botch debt recovery scheme, which used tax office data
(15:34):
to illegally issue debt notices to wealthare recipients, many.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Of which were falsely calculated.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
And the full cost of Australia's deal to deport hundreds
of former immigration detainees to NARU has been revealed during
a late night Senate inquiry. The Albanese government signed a
memorandum of understanding with NARU, offering more than four hundred
million dollars upfront and seventy million each subsequent year in
exchange for NARU taking.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Hundreds of former detainees.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Responding to questions from the Senate, immigration officials revealed the
deal with cost taxpayers up to two point five billion
dollars over the next three decades.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.