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July 6, 2025 16 mins

A child care worker in Victoria has been charged with more than 70 offences relating to the sexual abuse of children. Following the arrest, the state health authorities recommended 1200 children, some as young as five months old, get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. 

The government is scrambling to figure out how this happened, and how to stop it happening again. But for ABC investigative journalist Adele Ferguson, this is the unsurprising outcome of a long brewing crisis in childcare centres across the country. 

Today, Four Corners reporter Adele Ferguson on the dangers of an industry driven by profit, and National Children's Commissioner Anne Hollonds on what needs to be done to better protect children in care.

If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.

 

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Guest: Investigative journalist Adele Ferguson and National Children’s Commissioner Anne Hollonds.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just a warning before we get started. This episode discusses
child sexual abuse. Please take care while listening. Are children
safe at childcare?

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I believe right now they're not safe.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
That's a huge statement.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
It is.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
This sector is in crisis and that's why the governments
really have to act urgently, because children aren't safe.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Adele Ferguson is an investigative journalist at the ABC. She
spent nine months reporting on the crisis unfolding in Australia's
childcare system. So once she heard last week that a
childcare worker in Victoria was charged with more than seventy
offenses relating to sexual abuse of children. She says the
allegations were disgusting but not surprising.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
When it comes to sexual misconduct and offenses. At least
one a day are reported in Victoria, WA and New
South Wales. We don't know how many across Australia because Queensland,
Northern Territory in South Australia don't have a reportable conduct scheme.
And what we do know is there's a lot of underreporting.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Now twelve hundred children, some as young as five months old,
are being tested for sexually transmitted diseases and the government
is scrambling to stop something like this from happening again.
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM today

(01:31):
four Corners reporter Adele Ferguson on the dangers in an
industry driven by profit. A National Children's Commissioner Ann Hollands
on what needs to be done to protect children in care.
It's Monday, July seven. Good evening.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
We begin with one of the most distressing child sex
abuse investigations in Victoria's history.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Hundreds of children are tonight the waiting urgent. Adell thank
you for speaking with me. Can you just lay out
for us the allegations that have emerged in the last
few days about sexual abuse in Victorian childcare centers.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
So it was a twenty six year old called Joshua
Brown who was arrested and charged with seventy counts of
sexual abuse of children. Eight children between the ages of
five months and two years, so very young.

Speaker 5 (02:31):
Police have records of the man working at twenty different
childcare centers between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty five, most
of them in Melbourne's West. The state government, how is
it that.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
That could happen? What safeguards are in place to stop
perpetrators working in childcare centers.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
They are supposed to be working with children's checks, but
they're deeply flawed. So each state is different. In Queensland
you have the blue card and other states that's the
working with children and what happens is you have to
have been charged with a serious offense to lose you
working with children check, so you might be under the

(03:09):
radar and so you have a working with Children's check,
which is what happened to the gentleman in Victoria. And
in terms of working with children checks, if you're in act,
for example, and you've been investigated and you've been suspended
from a childcare center, you can just hop to another
state and get a working with children check. Privacy protects

(03:32):
these people because the states don't share things. And that's
why there's been caused to have a national register for
ten years and it hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
The man who was alleged to have molested children in
his care worked across several centers. On the surface, it's
hard to understand how he wasn't caught by our colleague. Sooner,
can you tell me what you're reporting is uncovered about
why it is that childcare workers may not report abuse
if they see it.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, there's a number of reasons. One, how do these
people get away with it? You know, in the case
of Ashley Griffith who's now in Jay Off the Life,
he worked across many centers and it went under the
radar anything. How does that happen when this guy had
tripods and was filming in the childcare center.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
One of Australia's worst ever pedophiles has been sentenced to
life in prison without the possibility of parole for twenty
seven years after confessing to raping and abusing scores of
girls in childcare centers across Australia and overseas.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
One of the reasons is lack of supervision. There aren't
enough staff. There's a lot of gaming of the system
when it comes to staff to child ratios. But in
terms of the reporting of it, it's mandatory to report.
But there's two reasons why it often doesn't happen. One,
a lot of educators don't understand child protection policies. They

(04:59):
don't understand and the mandatory reporting that's required, so they.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Don't do it.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
And the other reason is they're too scared sometimes if
they report anything they get retribution or they become a
pririe because they're dobbing in a workmate.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
And so there's those two.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Things that they're not protected when they do the mandatory
that they should, but they're not protected.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
From the system when they do.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Your Four Corners investigation into the childcare sector revealed that
even the dodgy ist providers who aren't meeting basic standards
are still allowed to operate. Can you explain how that works?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 7 (05:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
One of the problems is there's been this.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Explosion in for profit operators, private equity listed companies, overseas operators,
and they're putting profit before children, and because there's such
a demand for childcare centers, the regulators seem to not
have the appetite to go after them. So when educators

(06:03):
do something wrong, in many cases, when you're looking at
the regulatory documents or you're talking to parents, not a
lot seems to happen. So, you know, when the Minister
for Education is saying we're going to beef up penalties
because they're not.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
High enough, I'm thinking to myself.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, it's a good idea, but the regulators aren't even
using the penalties that they have. So there's a problem,
and I think one of the reasons for that is
if they go in hard and shut a center down,
they're worried what are the implications for parents? Where do
the parents put the children.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
There's been a lot of focus by the federal government
on expanding access to childcare. Within that, what focus has
there been on safety?

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Not a lot, as we can clearly see. It's only
since this terrible incident happened in Victoria that governments are
coming out saying we've got to do more. Jason Clair
was on seventh thirty saying we haven't done enough and
we've got to move faster.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
We're taking action, but not enough action has happened, and
not fast enough.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
All right, let's talk about that.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Safety has not been on the agenda. It's all been
about affordability.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
The honest answer to you is that this job will
never be done, that there will always be bad people
that try and break through the net. That doesn't mean
that you do nothing, though. That means that we've got
to do everything that we possibly can to make sure
that our children are safe. That's why people are talking
now about CCTV or about an educator register about improving

(07:36):
Working with Children checks. None of that is a silver bullet.
None of that is going to guarantee every child is safe.
But all of it are the sort of things that
are necessary if we're fair income about doing it.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
What the government is saying is by September they will
have a working national Working with Children checks. There also
needs to be a national registration scheme for educators so
that we can track who they are, how often they've
moved around. We have that for age care, we have
it for teachers, we have it for medical practitioners. We

(08:11):
don't have it for child care workers.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
After the break, the National Children's Commissioner Ann Holands or
a national response that could protect the voiceless. And you
called for stronger regulation of the childcare sector. What would
that actually look like. What sort of things would change
to make sure that there is stronger regulation.

Speaker 7 (08:38):
Well, first of all, I think we need independent oversight
and monitoring. What I'm unclear about is how independent the
current regulators are in the states and territories. Secondly, they
need to be properly resourced. So you know, we've heard
allegations that they're not visiting centers very often. That's because

(09:00):
of a lack of funds. And then thirdly, they need
to have teeth to act. They need legislation that enables
them to take the actions that are necessary. So on
all three counts we seem to be lacking at the moment.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Another thing that has been floated at the moment is
that all child care centers should have CCTV surveillance within them.
What do you think about that.

Speaker 7 (09:24):
Well, I think the recommendation came out of the New
South Wales review after the Four Corners episodes, and I
think that recommendation said that you'd only have CCTV for
the dodgy providers. Well, the dodgy providers shouldn't be operating,
so forget that, they should be out of the game.
And I note that Good Start Early Learning, which is

(09:46):
the largest not for profit provider in the country, have
already announced that they're going to install CCTV everywhere, so
I think we take the lead from them. I think
it's good practice.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
We've also heard a lot in the wake of these
allegations that our discussion has emerged about banning men from
working in childcare centers. Do you think that that's a
legitimate proposal policy that the sector could adopt or is
are the other factors that need to be taken to
an account.

Speaker 7 (10:18):
Well, look, I think it's an overreaction, and I perhaps
understandable given how outraged we are across the country right now,
but I don't support it. You know, I think there
are very good childcare workers of both men and women
in the sector who are doing an amazing job. And
I don't think gender is the issue here. When we

(10:41):
look at the reportable conduct issues that have emerged, there's
a lot that are from female childcare workers, a lot
of physical abuse, neglect issues. You know, there are problems
across the board. So I don't think we should be
focusing on male workers, especially when we're really short of workers.

(11:05):
We need good workers of both gender. Kids need role
models of both gender. We just need better screening and
recruitment measures. We need better training of staff, all staff
in centers, from boardroom to the sand pit. Everyone needs
to know what to look for in terms of grooming
and risky behaviors. And we need that strongth regulatory scaffolding

(11:28):
that we've just discussed.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
You said, National Cabinet must make child safety and well
being a key priority in the same way that women's
safety is a top priority. What would that actually look
like an well, you know.

Speaker 7 (11:40):
That could be done with a stroke of a pen, Daniel.
There could be a decision made by the Prime Minister
that you know, we need to prioritize child safety and
well being and he get his state and territory colleagues
to agree to that. With women and women's safety, what
it looks like is that there are reports to National
cab it on reform actions that have been agreed on

(12:04):
and all the states and territories work together with the
Commonwealth to progress reforms. So everybody's at the table and
there is accountability at the top. And by the way,
we do that because we see women and women's safety
as a critical national issue. So it's a very good
thing that we're doing that. Currently, when you look at
the list of issues for National Cabinet and it's publicly available,

(12:27):
you won't see the word children anywhere on that list.
I think that's a very important missing piece in the
terms of accountability for action on these previous Royal commissions
and inquiry recommendations that now it's being admitted that we
were too slow to and act them. Why because there's

(12:49):
no accountability to do so. The other thing we need
is a cabinet Minister for children. Why do we have
cabinet ministers for women, We've had them for decades. It's
because it's an accountability mechanism. It provides national leadership and
coordination across the portfolios and keeps whimen's issues front of mind.
Who's doing that for children? No one. Another mechanism that

(13:14):
I've recommended in a report to Parliament last year, as
well as a Minister for children as well as national
cabinet oversight, is a Ministerial Council on Child Wellbeing. So
this would be a council of experts from different disciplines
that would provide advice to ministers about what needs to

(13:36):
be done. Again, we don't have any of that for children.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
What does it say about our society and that we've
relegated the care of our oldest and our youngest to
systems driven by profit and which we see time and
time again. I write with abuse.

Speaker 7 (13:52):
Well, you know, I spent a lot of time asking
myself why are children sidelined and often invisible when it
comes to policy? When you ask about that in terms
of children, well, they don't vote, for a start, they
don't have a voice and there is no accountability mechanisms
in place. What does it say about our society? Well,

(14:14):
I think it shows actually a gap between what people value.
Ordinary citizens value, they value children, they value older people right,
and what politicians are spending their time thinking about.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
And thank you so much for your time, Thanks Daniel.
There is specialists help available for people who have experienced
sexual abuse. Kids Helpline is a free confidential counseling service
for young people aged from five to twenty five. You
can reach them on one eight hundred five five one
eight hundred. They're available twenty four hours, seven days a week,

(14:53):
or you can call one eight hundred Respect, a counseling
service which also supports people affected by sexual assault. They're
also available twenty four to seven. Also in the news,

(15:15):
a thirty four year old Sydney man has been arrested
and charged after the doors of a Melbourne synagogue were
set on fire on Friday night. The man is alleged
to have poured flammable liquid on the door of the
East Melbourne Hebrew Congregation Synagogue and set it alight while
people were inside taking part in Shabbats. Home Affairs Minister

(15:35):
Tony Burke visited the synagogue over the weekend and says
the arson attack was an attack on Australia and Elon
Musk has announced he has formed a new political party
called the America Party. Musk has been floating the idea
of a rival political party since exiting the Trump administration
and becoming an outspoken critic of Trump's signature legislation known

(15:57):
as the One Big Beautiful Bill. That bill passed both
chambers of Congress last week, but has been criticized across
the political spectrum. I'm Daniel James. This is seven AM.
Thanks for listening.
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