Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Daniel James, and you're listening the seven Am.
Australia is positioning itself as a critical supplier of the
minerals the world needs to build clean technology, but for
now China dominates the market and its griplin supply chains
(00:21):
gives it enormous leverage. At the same time, the Albanesi
government is racing China to shore up its influence in
the Pacific, a region already feeling the sharpest impacts of
climate change. Today, Contributing editor at The New Daily, Amy
Ramikus on the high stakes contest for influence in our
region and how Australia's broken climate promises are holding us back.
(00:48):
It's Friday, July fourth, Amy, thank you for joining us.
Penny Wong has been at the Quad in Washington. What
was on the agenda?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
The agenda was, you.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Know, all the usual stuff, so security packs. Working together
these very important countries is a very important strategic partners
and allies of the United States, and.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Together we have a lot of shared priorities.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
A lot of things, a lot of talk about, you know,
the country that's responsible for the Quad and the reason
that everyone's all there, without that country actually being named.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
The importance of our partnership is highlighted by the urgency
of the strategic challenges that we all face.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Which is China the giant elephant in the Quad room.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
It is essential that nations of the Indoor Pacific have
the freedom of choice, so essential to make right decisions
on development and security.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
And then they got around to, you know, one of
the big issues for the future, particularly for the Quad nations,
which is critical minerals.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Clinical minerals not just access to the raw material, but
also access to the ability to process and refine it
to usable materials.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And more importantly, what they're calling the Quad Critical Minerals Initiative,
which is basically those countries coming together to kind of
establish their own supply chain for critical minerals that does
not involve China.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So we've been hearing a lot about critical minerals lately.
Why are they so critical right now when it comes
to dealing with the US.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, they're very well named critical minerals, aren't they.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
A quick rundown on what.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Critical minerals are just so we can talk about why
exactly they are so important. So it's anything that is
needed for new technology.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So we're talking batteries, we're.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Talking evs, fiber optic cables, anything that you can think
of that is modern technology relies on this big group
of things that we call critical mineral and rare earths,
and Australia has about thirty six of the fifty identified critical.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Minerals, so we're doing okay.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
But China is still absolutely dominating in that space, particularly lithium,
which is one of the big things that you need
to create batteries, which is what most of the world
is transitioning towards. China not only mindes lithium and has
pretty great stockpiles of critical minerals, it's also absolutely killing
(03:31):
it when it comes to processing. And that is the
big problem here, is that the other nations don't have
the same processing ability for the critical minerals because what
they're worried about is that at some point in the future, China,
as it's emerging as a.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Global superpower, could turn off the tap.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And that means that they will be the only ones
who are able to manufacture the batteries that are going
to be part of our everyday life. Wind turbines, the
solar paddles, the cars, so these are all the things.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That they were discussing at the Quad.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So Australia has a bit of a card to play
when it comes to critical minerals. Have we actually promised
anything on that front yet.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Well, the card that we have to play is that
we've got them and we're looking at creating this as
our new industry.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So anybody who's had the unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Displeasure of hearing about the future Made in Australia strategy
that the Albanese government is going on about. Essentially it's
bringing manufacturing and processing back to Australia and critical minerals
is at the core of that.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
Australia's natural resources are so important, but we need to
develop a new critical minerals strategy nationally.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
In terms of what Australia has promised, we've promised that
we will cooperate, that we will work to establish these
supply chains outside of China, that we will work to
ensure that we have our domestic supply and processing.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And that we are open to trade.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So we're talking to the United States, which is basically
under the Trump administration going around and hoovering up as
many deals as possible.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So Australia is.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Working with the United States, but we haven't promised anything
entirely concrete yet, and that is mostly because we aren't
quite sure what we are doing ourselves.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
We can't just sit back and allow ourselves to be
at the end of global supply chains. We need to
put it simply, we need to make more stuff here
that simple, not export our minerals, wait for the values
to be added somewhere else and then import it back
at much higher value.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
We have a vague idea that there's going to be
a critical minerals reserve in Australia, which means that we
will be keeping some for ourselves, which is not something that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
We did with gas.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
And there is a vague idea that we are going
to process things here. How we pay for that, who
pays for it, who owns it, how we taps for that.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
None of that has been worked out yet.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So the backdrop to all of this is that there
is a hope in camera that critical minerals will strength
in Australia's hand when it comes to negotiating tariff relief
and also strengthen a hand when it comes to the
US's commitment to ORCUS. So will any arrangement around critical
minerals help with those negotiations potentially.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Well, the problem with that is that the Trump administration
isn't stable. You don't actually know what they're going to
agree to and stick to. Nothing that Donald Trump says
is guaranteed. And the way that Trump is loosening those
tariffs really depends on the day and how he feels
(06:49):
about his relationship with them. Trump is actually in discussions
with China at the moment about loosening the restrictions and
the tariffs that they have on Chinese imports and critical
minerals is central to that, and China is a lot
further down the chain than Australia is.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
So if China.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Goes okay, well look we'll give you x YZ, Trump
will be like, cool, we don't care about supply chains
in the future. We just care about what we can
get now, and that kind of deals Australia out of
these immediate dealings. So Australia and the other coordinations South
Korea and Japan and India and all of our allies
are basically trying to play four D chess with Trump.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
So there's a lot of.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Work being done behind the scenes to ensure that you
keep Trump happy. You deal with what you've got in
front of you, but you also keep an eye into
what's happening in the future at a time when maybe
Trump isn't bleeding America and maybe that there's a little
bit easier to negotiate.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
After the break Australia's race with China in the Pacific,
and the Australia is pushing ahead with forming stronger ties
with our Pacific neighbors in an effort to push back
against China. So what in Rhodes is China made in
(08:15):
the region.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, China under the Coalition made massive inroads with soft power,
so basically of applying a lot of low interest loans
to Pacific nation countries in order for them to keep
their economies afloat. They're building infrastructure, they're building hospitals, they're
doing educational programs. There's a lot more freedom of movement
(08:36):
between China and the Pacific nations. And Australia kind of
woke up one day and went, oh, that doesn't seem
so great for us, because maybe China puts our military
base on Vadawatu or Papua New Guinea. And so part
of what the Albanesi government has been doing is trying
to normalize the relationships with the Pacific and to ensure
(08:59):
that Pacific nation look to Australia as its natural partner
of choice.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And so a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Pacific nations has come out and said, okay, you can't
just do roads and hospitals anymore. What are you actually
doing about climate which is the number one issue for
Pacific nations. China is making promises where they're talking about
basically a lot easier pathways for migration to ensure that
(09:26):
you can basically be from a Pacific nation but also
move to China with support if you need to.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Those conversations have.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Started, and now the Pacific nations are saying to Australia, well,
what are you doing on that? Because you're still approving
fossil fuel projects. You aren't actually dealing us into these conversations,
and we're sick of just being patted on the head
and told to be you know, good boys and girls
and off you go. What are you actually doing? That's
a much bigger challenge for the Albanezy government.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So this hands a lot of leverage actually to a
lot of these specific nations when it comes to things
like climate policy. So what assurances have the Alberanuzi government
given some of these countries in relation to climate policy.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
So we had the first deal with tu Valu, which
was essentially to set up a lottery system to allow
people living in Tuvalu to move to Australia. But Vanihatu
and other nations are saying, well, what are you doing
for us, because we're in exactly the same boat. You
can't pick and choose which of your neighbors that you.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Decide to help. And so Vanahatu is saying, well, you
know what, we want, easier migration.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
We want you to drop so many of the immigration
checks and things and that you have in place for
us so that we can also plan for our future.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And if you don't do it, then China will.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And finally, Amy, China has a great degree of clout,
being probably the emergency superpawer of the twenty first century,
but can it claim any moral superiority when it comes
to climate action at this point?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
No, it can't, but neither can we, And so it's
really easy to say, oh, well, you know, China's not
decarbonizing as well, and China's responsible for x amount of
fossil fuel, but so's Australia, and particularly when.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It comes to exports.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Australia is still continuing to approve of fossil fuel projects,
including the Northwest Shelf expansion, and while we're doing that,
we're still talking to the Pacific and saying, oh hey,
how about you come and host the UN Climate Conference
with us, so we can tell everybody that we're still.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
A happy family.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
We say one thing and we do another all the time,
and we have done that when it comes to the
Pacific Nations for.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
A very very long period of time.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
We do not have a great history when it comes
to looking after Pacific Nations as we have said that
we would, and you can go all the way back
to Blackbirding and beyond to see how some of those
bonds have been broken. It's easier for China at the
moment because they don't have the same history with the
Pacific Nations that Australia does, and they have a lot
(12:10):
of money and a lot of power, and at the
moment they're basically doing whatever strategically works for them. That
doesn't necessarily mean that when the crunch comes that China's
going to live up to all of its promises, but
Australia has broken so many promises with the Pacific over
such a long period of time. You can see why
(12:30):
some Pacific leaders are saying, you know what, We're going
to see what else is out there for our people.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Amy, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Also in the news, the work history of alleged Melbourne
pedophile Joshua has widened, with new evidence showing he was
at an assident childcare center months earlier than authorities first stated.
Parents say they recall brand at the center as early
as August last year, raising questions over official notifications and
exposing more families to possible risk. Brown remains in custody
(13:18):
facing seventy charges as police and Victoria's Health Department reviews
its timeline and continues their investigations. And Creative Australia has
apologized to artist Khalid Subsabi after the body reinstated him
to represent the country at the twenty twenty six Venice Biennial.
In February, Creative Australia dump Subsabi, a move criticized at
(13:39):
the time as having been influenced by politics. An independent
external review into the decision attributed the counselation to quote
a series of missteps, assumptions and missed opportunities. Yesterday, Acting
chair Wesley Enoch took to Radio National saying I want
to apologize to them for the hurt and pain they've
gone through when this process. Thanks for listening to seven AM.
(14:04):
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