Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am.
Anthony Albanesi has been waiting decades to recognize a Palestinian state. Now,
as countries like France, Canada and the UK all declare
their own intentions to do so, the Prime Minister is
weighing up how Australia will respond. It's a delicate balance
(00:25):
with competing pressures from within his own party and an
opposition denying there's a starvation crisis in Gaza Today. Press
Gallery veteran Paul bon Jorno on the growing political momentum
behind the case for statehood and the private phone calls
shaping Albanese's plans. It's Friday, August one, Paul. The push
(00:54):
for Palestinian statehood by Australian politicians goes way back. Can
you take me back to the lateties, to the formation
of the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine group? He was in it.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, it's quite fascinating to see the history of the
Parliamentary Friends of Palestine, founded in the nineteen nineties, as
you're saying, by a backbencher, young backbencher called Anthony Albernizi
and a new junior minister in the Howard government called
Joe Hockey. Now Hockey's very interesting. He is the son
of Armenian refugees that fled Turkey and they fled to Palestine.
(01:31):
So the two of them formed the Parliamentary Friends of Palestine,
and a couple of years later, when Susan Lee joined
the Parliament after defeating the Nats for her seat of Pharah,
she too joined the Friends of Palestine. People don't know this,
but she's the daughter of a British intelligence agent who
(01:54):
has a child, spent time in the Middle East, and
she had a working knowledge of Arabic as a child.
Susan Lee in two thousand and three said, for those
of us who look forward to an independent Palestinian state
and wish to advance the cause of viable sovereign statehood,
this group, that is the Parliamentary Group, gives us an
(02:14):
opportunity to hold out the hand of friendship, understanding and trust.
So that background is fascinating, and it also gives color
to why a lot of people were scratching their heads
at a news conference on Tuesday when she refused point
blank about four or five times to say there was
starvation in Gaza.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Can I just move on?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Now I've said, I'm very distressed by the images that
I've seen.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Do you believe that that's evidence and Stuffy?
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's a complex situation on the ground. Like everyone, I'm
very distressed by the images I've seen.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So Albanez has wanted a two state solution for a
long time, Paul, But how has his government balanced that
since October seven with not wanting to reward her mass
for a horrific terrorist attack.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, what we've seen is the Albanesi government. He and
Penny Wong. By the way, Penny Wong was a big
mover getting the Labour Party at its national conference in
twenty twenty one to say that an incoming Labor government
should move quickly to recognition of a state of Palestine.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
It reflects our belief that Israelis and Palestinians deserve to
prosper in peace behind secure and recognize borders. It reflects
our belief that a true friend of Israel is a
true friend of the rights of Palestinians to statehood.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
That incoming government, of course, is the Albanesi government. Now
with Wong as the Foreign Minister.
Speaker 6 (03:43):
We continue to call for a ceasefire, We continue to
call for hostages to be released. We continue to say
that har Mask can have no role in a future
Palestinian state, and we continue to call for aid to
be allowed to the people of Gaza. Every innocent life matters.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
We don't have a formal alliance with Israel, but we
have been very close to Israel, and in fact the
Australian government under the Australian Labor Party in nineteen forty
eight rather played a key role in the United Nations
in the founding of the state of Israel. So all
of that would weigh heavily on an Australian Prime minister,
even one like Albanizi, who is under if you like,
(04:27):
riding orders and agrees with these riding orders to quickly
advance the recognition of Palestinian statehood. Alberanizi says that whatever
is done must be more than slogans.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
What we have from some of the campaign that has
taken place is slogans, and what we are about is
meaningful action.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
But what we saw this week, of course, was an
uppying of the ante where on a Wednesday, Australian joined
fourteen other nations calling for an immediate recognition of the
state of Palestine. When the United Nations General Assembly gathers
in September.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
We have signed a statement today, another statement with many nations.
That statement, I think has a number of things in
it that are important.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
It was noted, for example, by the fourteen Nations that
the Palestinian authority calls for the liberation of hostages and
importantly the disarmament of hamas, commits to terminate the prison
payment system, commits to schooling reform. This goes to the
Palestinians being willing not to teach their children that the
(05:42):
fate of Israel should be for all the Jews to
be driven into the sea. And commits to hold elections
within twelve months.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
What we will continue to do is to put forward
a principal position consistent with our unwavering commitment to the
vision of the two State solution.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Now, France, a leading G seven nation, led the charge
with an unconditional statement that it would recognize Palestine in
the UN in September.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
In relation to the two state solution and the recognition
of Palestine, that this has been long starting Labor Party policy.
It was in our manifesto we talked about the right
of the Palestinians to recognition.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
And then the United Kingdom Kiirs Starmer came out and
said that the UK two would join France in doing this,
but put some conditions on the recognition. I was.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
In contact with Prime Minister Starmer overnight.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Alban Is, in a news conference on Wednesday, revealed that
he'd been talking to Starma about these things.
Speaker 6 (06:57):
What I've said is that it's not the timeline, it's
not what we're looking at. What we're looking at is
the circumstances where recognition will advance the objective of the
creation of two states.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So how's the push by France and others being received
in the Middle East?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, on Thursday there was further news that key surrounding
Arab states also support these views and will recognize Israel
as a legitimate state within the Middle East. So there's
a lot of movement that in the past has blocked
European nations friends of Israel from pushing for a Palestinian state.
(07:43):
Now this is obviously going to put enormous pressure on Israel.
The Trump administration in recent days has been critical of
what's going on in Gaza, but the United States doesn't
back calls for immediate recognition. Donald Trump on Force one
as he returned from his golfing holiday in Scotland, he
(08:04):
told journalists that this would reward Harmas. So you're rewarding
Hamas if you do that, and I don't think they
should be rewarded. So I'm not end that gap, to
be honest. And of course that's the line that the
Nitan Yahoo government.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Takes after the break starvation in Gaza and the people
saying it's not real if we go to the immediate
humanitarian crisis in Gaza now, Paul, particularly the hunger crisis.
(08:43):
Last weekend, Anthony Eberanezi called out Israel for breaking international
law by withholding AID.
Speaker 6 (08:49):
Well, quite clearly, it is a breach of international law
to stop food being delivered, which was the decision that
Israel made in March.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
How were his his comments received in Israel well?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Interestingly, the Prime Minister repeated that he warned the President
of Israel, Herzog in May when they were both at
Francis's funeral, that what Israel was doing and the way
it was doing it, it was losing international support.
Speaker 6 (09:21):
People who are friends of Israel have to be able
to say what you are doing is losing support, and
that is what is happening.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, denied there was
starvation in Gaza, and the Israeli Embassy in Canberra on
Monday held a briefing for press gallery journalists where the
Deputy ambassador repeated this view that there was no starvation,
that it's based on misrepresentation and the falsification of images.
(09:58):
And on top of the Prime Minister of Israel's comments,
the Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Sah in direct response to
a question put to him in Jerusalem by an ABC
Australian journalist, he said that Alberizi himself was lying.
Speaker 6 (10:16):
So the Prime Minister Albinizi said that Israel was quite
quite clearly reaching international law by beholding aid from Sadiliens.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So this is a lay.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Alberanzi told his labor caucus in response to that that
it was beyond comprehension. The other thing that's beyond comprehension, Daniel,
is this quibbling over the images that we're seeing. There's
quibbling led by the Murdoch media that that image of
the emaciated child in its mother's arms that David Spears
(10:52):
on Insiders showed the Prime Minister was somehow docted because
it was later revealed that this child had a precondition.
This sort of quibbling, well, it certainly disgusts me.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Well, in the first instance, there are a lot of
conflicting reports now coming out of Gaza.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And we saw an amazing example of it coming from
not only Mechaalia Cash, the shadow Foreign Minister.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
The moral obligation here lies directly at the foot of
the terrorists. Hummus, they started this war.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
But her colleague Dan Tien went on ABC Radio and
he said that Harmas was solely responsible for what's happening
in Gaza.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
The problem all along has been an internationally listed terrorist
organization HAMAS.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Now, look, this is really the old argument of look
what you made me do? I mean, it is simply
incredible and one has to wonder why is the Australian
federal opposition taking such a blinked response to what's going
on in Gaza and a refusal, even as a friend
(12:04):
of Israel, to say to it, as your friend, please
stop it. I frankly myself can't see that there is
any for example, electoral advantage for the position that they've taken.
And the recent federal election shows that that the seats
that had quite high Jewish voter population in them didn't
(12:25):
all rush back to the Liberals as they thought they
would for the stand that was taken.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
And now and easy. He's facing pressure from within his
own party, both from people like Edi Husick but also
from the Labour friends of Israel. And we heard that
this week the PM met with the Executive Council of
Australian Jury. Do we know what he said in that,
meaning Paul, and how he's handling these competing positions.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Well, look, there's been no official briefing of that meeting.
The Executive Australian Jury are the most stridently outspoken supporters
of Israel. Their statements and publications welcome the fact that
Albanzi is upping Australia's relief effort for Gaza, but they
(13:10):
do quibble with the Prime Minister over definitions of the
legality of what Israel is doing in international law. We
can only assume that Albanezi gave a hearing to these
Australian Jewish leaders but also left them in no doubt
as to what his position is.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
And finally, Paul, this issue has totally overshadowed Anthony Albanez's
domestic agenda this week. But politically speaking, how do you
think he's weathering this well.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Look, polling before the federal election showed around sixty percent
of Australian support what the Albanesi government's doing in response
to the Middle East crisis. The election result would tend
to confirm that, and we've seen opinion polls in general
just on the way the government is traveling that showed
that the government's a good twelve or thirteen points ahead
(14:04):
of the opposition. So that would suggest that if people
aren't all that happy with what the Albanese's doing about
Israeli Palestine, it's not affecting their views of the government
very much.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Paul, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Thanks Daniel, great to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Also in the news, Independent Senator Lydia Thorpe put forward
a motion in the Senate on Thursday paying tribute to
the seventeen First Nations people who had died in custody
this year and paying respect to their families. The motion
comes after the latest Closing the Gap report reveals only
four of the nineteen targets are on track to be
met by twenty thirty one. We'll have an in depth
(14:57):
look at the findings of the report next week, and
the ABC is calling on Israel to allow international journalists
into Gaza. ABC News director Justin Stevens has released a
statement saying the public broadcaster has repeatedly tried to get
reporters into Gaza since October seven, when Israel block international
journalists from operating independently in the strip. Since then, reporting
(15:21):
from Gaza has been largely conducted by freelance journalists. According
to the Committee to Protect Journalist, at least one hundred
and eighty six journalists and media workers, mostly Palestinian, have
been killed in Gaza while doing their jobs. Seven Am
is a daily show from Solstice Media. Is made by
Atticus Bastow, Shane Anderson, Chris Dangate, Ruby Jones, Sarah mcveee,
(15:43):
Travis Evans, Zotnfad Joe and Me Daniel James. Our theme
music is by Ned Beckley and Josh Hogan of Envelope Portio.
Just before we Go, this marks the last show with
our senior producer, Shane Anderson. Shane has been a great
colleague and friend and we wish her the very best.
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(16:04):
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