August 13, 2025 • 15 mins
During the COVID-19 pandemic, Australia – like many countries – saw protesters take the streets.
They weren’t just protesting lockdowns, they were rallying around a tangle of fears and conspiracies.
Those threads fused into a broader worldview that pulled people down a pipeline and built a small industry of influencers.
Today, Conspiracy Nation authors Ariel Bogle and Cam Wilson on the conspiracy pipeline: how it works, who benefits, and where it’s heading now.
This is part one of a two-part series.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: Authors of Conspiracy Nation, Cam Wilson and Ariel Bogle
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think if you cast your mind back and you
think about what it was like at the start of
the pandemic, this is this time where the whole world changed.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good evening, and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
The World Health Organization has now confirmed what many epidemiologists
have been saying for weeks. The coronavirus is a pandemic.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
There was a time of great uncertainty of like little information,
and what information we had, there was not a lot
of confidence in it, and so when people decided to
grasp for understanding of it, we found that some people
went towards these fringe, extreme ideas of COVID conspiracies and
(00:43):
conspiratorial thinking that gave them a kind of certainty and
a simple understanding of the world at a time that
really defied that.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
A quarter of the world's population is now living under
some form of lockdown due to coronavirus. Than three billion
people in almost seventy countries and territories have been asked
to stay at home.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We saw the protests in the streets, We saw narratives
about a week control and secret, shadowy plots.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
But it's actually not a very weird thing. It's a
very human and relatable thing. Which is they wanted to
make sense of the stuff that was happening to them.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
During the COVID nineteen pandemic, we saw protesters take to
the streets. They weren't just protesting lockdowns. They were rallying
around a tangle of fears and conspiracies. Those threads fused
into a broader worldview that pulled people down a pipeline
and built a small industry of influencers. I'm Ruby Jones and.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You're listening to seven AM today Conspiracy Nation authors Arial
Bog and Cam Wilson on the conspiracy pipeline, how it works,
who benefits, and where it's heading.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Now.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
It's Thursday, August fourteen, and this is part one of
a two part episode. Ariel and Cam, thank you so
much for joining me on seven AM.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Great to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
I want to talk about the protests movements that emerged
from the COVID lockdowns in Australia, and in particular, there
is one rally that you went to and witnessed, Ariel,
which was the May twenty twenty three Rally for Freedom.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Yeah, I went to this one and it was started
at Sydney Town Hall, there's always protests there if you've
been to Sydney, you know, for all different kinds of causes.
But what was really distinct to me about this one
was the cacophony of issues that were on display. Twenty
twenty three, you know, a lot of those restrictions had
been lifted. We were coming out of that period of
staying at home, but yet these marches were and of
(03:00):
pretty decent sizes what they call so as I turned
up and like turned onto George Street, I could see
posters about vaccines. I could see posters about fifteen minute cities,
(03:21):
which is a kind of conspiratorial understanding of a town
planning idea that claims it's a way to lock us
down and put us under government control instead of being
about walkable cities. I could see t shirts with the
line exposed the twenty eight on it that refers to
a conspiracy theory that spread widely in Australia about a
list of twenty eight elite pedophiles, including a prime minister.
(03:44):
I saw things about the Russia Ukraine War. You know,
it really showed to me how so many of these
ideas had kind of merged and were able to share
space even if people didn't show up for the exact
same reason. They shared a common sentiment, and the idea
was that there was something really wrong in the world.
And you know, that's not a unique feeling. A lot
of us feel like that. But they had decided the
(04:06):
blame was on a sort of shadowy force that was
out there trying to put us under the thumb to
control our lives against the common good.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Can we talk a little bit more about that kind
of cacophony of issues that you mentioned so far, g vaccines,
child abuse, rings, How these ideas that do seem disconnected
and random, how they come together into this kind of
overarching belief system.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Many of the people there believe completely different things, and
it's almost bizarre to see the different kinds of people
and their array of grievances that sometimes, if you think
about it, actually all couldn't be true at the same time,
like it actually wouldn't make sense. And yet that's not
a problem for these movements. Like you might believe that
(04:53):
nine to eleven was done by Massad, or you might
believe it was done by another group of people, but actually,
you know, you can kind of be and up because
what you agree on is this idea that you're not
getting the whole truth, that there are these bad forces,
and that you're on the right side of history. People
have all kinds of reasons ultimately that they get into
these groups and start to espouse these beliefs. But we
(05:15):
understand that these are all kind of influenced by these
broader societal factors, like, for example, the Internet has been
such a big force in bringing these people with disparate
views together, So ultimately you end up with this really
like connected group of people united by the same kind
of energy.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, and on the one hand, it's obviously a pretty
bleak way of looking at the world, but just having
access to that belief system provide comfort to people who
believe in it.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I think it can certainly like it is a way
to put a kind of simple US verse them, enemies
versus good guys narrative around really complex events the COVID
nineteen pandemic. As can was saying, you know, this evolving
situation where the science was not one hundred percent firm.
We're gaining understanding every day, but I think it's important
to say here, like there are real conspiracies. You know,
(06:10):
if you just take any kind of look at Australian politics.
You see the revolving door of lobbyists. You see how
power and money operates. So we're not denying that at all.
What we're talking about here is a kind of dedication
to us verse them narrative despite all available evidence and
an unwillingness to accept, you know, counter claims. And there's
(06:32):
some really interesting sort of work on this. There's an
academic in the United States, Joseph Kushinsky, who's framed this
is an understanding of power. He argues that conspiracy theories
are a way to comprehend power, our institutions, the global
sort of community of nations, a very complex ecosystem. Some
of us might turn to these narratives as a way
to kind of understand what is happening in the.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
World coming up, how online communities replace real ones and
the people left behind. You've been speaking to people who
(07:15):
have family members, partners, loved ones who have gone down
various conspiracy rabbit holes. Can you tell me about Danielle
and Emily.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I spoke to Danielle, who I found through a subreddit,
an online community space dedicated to people who had lost
loved ones to conspiracy theories and She was someone who
had been in a long term relationship with another woman, Emily,
that'd been together for I believe more than a decade
(07:47):
before the pandemic. Emily was already quite a nervous, anxious person.
She had early life trauma that had predisposed her to
being that kind of way, but when COVID happened just
supercharged it, and so it drastically changed her behavior over
just a few months. You know, she started worrying about
(08:09):
vaccine genocides. She started begging her partner to start storing
stuff in the house and preparing for a doomsday. They
got chickens as a way of kind of future proofing
themselves against anything that would happen to food supplies. And
while she did have some kind of work that did
keep her someone to touch the outside world, it really
(08:30):
didn't do much to shake this group on her. She
would spend hours and hours every day just ingesting enormous
amounts of conspiracy content through social media that was, on
one hand, you know, kind of like giving her the answer,
you know, it was telling her what was going on,
explaining it, But the other hand was completely freaking around.
It was telling her everything was going wrong, that everyone
she knew was under thread that was going to die.
(08:52):
And then as time went on, this really had an
enormous strain in their relationship. There's this heartbreaking moment that
Danielle told me where she was, like it was her
fiftieth birthday around then, and they decided to travel across Australia.
Danielle would remember they would stop in the middle of
nowhere and Emily would like jump on top of the
(09:15):
car or go find hills and trees to get on
top of to try and find just some internet connection
so that she could stay attached to the latest theories
coming from these conspiracy theory influencers who she was connected to.
Emily even started to share these transphobic and homophobic views
despite herself being in a gay relationship. Ultimately, this change
(09:37):
and her loved one took such a toll Danielle couldn't
handle it anymore. You know. They tried together, they went
to therapy, but the long term relationship broke down as
a result of it.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
And so it sounds like Emily was consuming content twenty
four to seven. So can we talk about what it
was that she was watching and listening to and the
people who were actually producing that content and was motivating them.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, so like many of them, she was in a
whole bunch of different online communities. Some are just like
you know, other people with similar beliefs, and some are
more led by figures at the top who are kind
of more dedicated to this and published content on it.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
Evening Australia, Riccardo Bozi, National Leader of Australia one, well,
it's been a busy couple of weeks and where and
the warf of the world continues.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know. One example is a guy called Ricardo Bozi,
who is a SAS guy who at one point during
the pandemic said that all doctors and nurses should be hung.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
The loads of individuals that run this country for the
time being an offer months longer have persuaded too many
of us that we have to kill our kids.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And he was one of those people that Emily was
really locked into.
Speaker 7 (10:49):
So if the wars are coming, it's because the globalists
want the war. They wanted a trigger the world control
and they tried global cooling in the seventies, then they
tried global warming, They tried all sorts of nonsense and
they finally got the pandemicandemic.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And so you had, you know, at the same time
as Danielle was, you know, waiting for updates on COVID
numbers like all of us, Emily was simultaneously in on
platforms like telegram and other fringe spaces where they were
getting this completely alternate reality that was helping transform her
into someone that daniel didn't recognize.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
And so how cynical are you now about these influences.
Do you think that they all believe what they're saying
or is there a kind of cohort who manipulating people
for profit.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
It's really hard to know exactly what people believe. Sometimes
you have suspicions, but ultimately we can see that there
are incentive structures that make it possible for these figures
with influence to keep doing it. You know, they make
money off it, or at the very least they get attention.
You know, they promote these ideas. They tell you to
be fearful of everyone and everything, and the only person
(11:58):
you should trust is them, and very often they directly
even cash in on that by selling things, whether it's
courses or supplements or something like that. So we try
to be quite empathetic towards people who believe conspiracy theories
because we actually think it's a very human and understandable
thing to search for answers, even if they're not things
that most of us would agree with. But the people
(12:19):
who are responsible for encouraging people's beliefs, feeding those, regardless
of whatever they actually think, we view them critically because
ultimately they are feeding beliefs that end up changing these
people lives and are often directly benefiting from it themselves.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
And we all know that COVID was a time of
uncertainty and disruption, and it makes sense in a lot
of ways that conspiracy theories. You know, people were more
susceptible to believing them during that time. Has the effect
of that been long lasting or do you think that
people are now less susceptible because we're mostly out of
(12:55):
that error.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's a great question.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
There was a lot of discussion about whether this anti lockdown,
you know, quote unquote freedom movement might emerge as a
political force in Australia.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So in the.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Twenty twenty two election, I can remember as reporting on that,
we saw a lot of influences from that ecosystem promoting
connections with some of the minor parties here in Australia,
and so there was this open question about whether they
would be able to get actual members of Parliament senators elected.
Ultimately that didn't really bear out in kind of state
or federal level. That's a bit different actually at the
(13:26):
council level. In recent council elections in Victoria, New South Wales,
we did see candidates get onto councils in various sort
of regional areas in particular that do have ties to
some of these pandemic era movements and have fringe beliefs
about say vaccines or town planning. You know, when we
(13:47):
look at some of the science around conspiratorial belief, you
know there are limitations on a lot of these studies,
but there is some correlation between perceptions of inequality and
corruption and conspiratorial belief at the national level. I think,
as all journalists on this program right now, we can
(14:09):
safely say that transparency is lacking in government. If you've
ever tried to FOI any government department, you'll come up
against so many different barriers. I have turned a lot
in this book to some work from Naomi Klein. She
wrote a book on called Doppelganga, which it really sort
of fits into this discussion, and she said that conspiracy
theorists get the facts wrong, but the feelings right. So
(14:31):
the feeling of living in a world with shadow lands,
the feeling that every human misery is someone else's profit,
the feeling of being exhausted by predation extraction, and the
feeling that important truths are being hidden. Like, I don't
disagree with that feeling at all, and I can see
why people might turn to these ideas when faced with that.
And that's the kind of question that we should be
asking on a national level, how to address not the
(14:52):
feeling that so much as the reality of how that happens.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
In the next episode, we look at how it can speak.
Heirises can leap from the dark corners of message boards
to mainstream politics and the devastating and deadly consequences of
unchecked wise it's called from fringe to Parliament, and it's
in your feed now
I think if you cast your mind back and you
think about what it was like at the start of
the pandemic, this is this time where the whole world changed.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Good evening, and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
The World Health Organization has now confirmed what many epidemiologists
have been saying for weeks. The coronavirus is a pandemic.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
There was a time of great uncertainty of like little information,
and what information we had, there was not a lot
of confidence in it, and so when people decided to
grasp for understanding of it, we found that some people
went towards these fringe, extreme ideas of COVID conspiracies and
(00:43):
conspiratorial thinking that gave them a kind of certainty and
a simple understanding of the world at a time that
really defied that.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
A quarter of the world's population is now living under
some form of lockdown due to coronavirus. Than three billion
people in almost seventy countries and territories have been asked
to stay at home.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
We saw the protests in the streets, We saw narratives
about a week control and secret, shadowy plots.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
But it's actually not a very weird thing. It's a
very human and relatable thing. Which is they wanted to
make sense of the stuff that was happening to them.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
During the COVID nineteen pandemic, we saw protesters take to
the streets. They weren't just protesting lockdowns. They were rallying
around a tangle of fears and conspiracies. Those threads fused
into a broader worldview that pulled people down a pipeline
and built a small industry of influencers. I'm Ruby Jones and.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
You're listening to seven AM today Conspiracy Nation authors Arial
Bog and Cam Wilson on the conspiracy pipeline, how it works,
who benefits, and where it's heading.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Now.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
It's Thursday, August fourteen, and this is part one of
a two part episode. Ariel and Cam, thank you so
much for joining me on seven AM.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Great to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
I want to talk about the protests movements that emerged
from the COVID lockdowns in Australia, and in particular, there
is one rally that you went to and witnessed, Ariel,
which was the May twenty twenty three Rally for Freedom.
Tell me about it.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
Yeah, I went to this one and it was started
at Sydney Town Hall, there's always protests there if you've
been to Sydney, you know, for all different kinds of causes.
But what was really distinct to me about this one
was the cacophony of issues that were on display. Twenty
twenty three, you know, a lot of those restrictions had
been lifted. We were coming out of that period of
staying at home, but yet these marches were and of
(03:00):
pretty decent sizes what they call so as I turned
up and like turned onto George Street, I could see
posters about vaccines. I could see posters about fifteen minute cities,
(03:21):
which is a kind of conspiratorial understanding of a town
planning idea that claims it's a way to lock us
down and put us under government control instead of being
about walkable cities. I could see t shirts with the
line exposed the twenty eight on it that refers to
a conspiracy theory that spread widely in Australia about a
list of twenty eight elite pedophiles, including a prime minister.
(03:44):
I saw things about the Russia Ukraine War. You know,
it really showed to me how so many of these
ideas had kind of merged and were able to share
space even if people didn't show up for the exact
same reason. They shared a common sentiment, and the idea
was that there was something really wrong in the world.
And you know, that's not a unique feeling. A lot
of us feel like that. But they had decided the
(04:06):
blame was on a sort of shadowy force that was
out there trying to put us under the thumb to
control our lives against the common good.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Can we talk a little bit more about that kind
of cacophony of issues that you mentioned so far, g vaccines,
child abuse, rings, How these ideas that do seem disconnected
and random, how they come together into this kind of
overarching belief system.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Many of the people there believe completely different things, and
it's almost bizarre to see the different kinds of people
and their array of grievances that sometimes, if you think
about it, actually all couldn't be true at the same time,
like it actually wouldn't make sense. And yet that's not
a problem for these movements. Like you might believe that
(04:53):
nine to eleven was done by Massad, or you might
believe it was done by another group of people, but actually,
you know, you can kind of be and up because
what you agree on is this idea that you're not
getting the whole truth, that there are these bad forces,
and that you're on the right side of history. People
have all kinds of reasons ultimately that they get into
these groups and start to espouse these beliefs. But we
(05:15):
understand that these are all kind of influenced by these
broader societal factors, like, for example, the Internet has been
such a big force in bringing these people with disparate
views together, So ultimately you end up with this really
like connected group of people united by the same kind
of energy.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, and on the one hand, it's obviously a pretty
bleak way of looking at the world, but just having
access to that belief system provide comfort to people who
believe in it.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
I think it can certainly like it is a way
to put a kind of simple US verse them, enemies
versus good guys narrative around really complex events the COVID
nineteen pandemic. As can was saying, you know, this evolving
situation where the science was not one hundred percent firm.
We're gaining understanding every day, but I think it's important
to say here, like there are real conspiracies. You know,
(06:10):
if you just take any kind of look at Australian politics.
You see the revolving door of lobbyists. You see how
power and money operates. So we're not denying that at all.
What we're talking about here is a kind of dedication
to us verse them narrative despite all available evidence and
an unwillingness to accept, you know, counter claims. And there's
(06:32):
some really interesting sort of work on this. There's an
academic in the United States, Joseph Kushinsky, who's framed this
is an understanding of power. He argues that conspiracy theories
are a way to comprehend power, our institutions, the global
sort of community of nations, a very complex ecosystem. Some
of us might turn to these narratives as a way
to kind of understand what is happening in the.
Speaker 5 (06:54):
World coming up, how online communities replace real ones and
the people left behind. You've been speaking to people who
(07:15):
have family members, partners, loved ones who have gone down
various conspiracy rabbit holes. Can you tell me about Danielle
and Emily.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, I spoke to Danielle, who I found through a subreddit,
an online community space dedicated to people who had lost
loved ones to conspiracy theories and She was someone who
had been in a long term relationship with another woman, Emily,
that'd been together for I believe more than a decade
(07:47):
before the pandemic. Emily was already quite a nervous, anxious person.
She had early life trauma that had predisposed her to
being that kind of way, but when COVID happened just
supercharged it, and so it drastically changed her behavior over
just a few months. You know, she started worrying about
(08:09):
vaccine genocides. She started begging her partner to start storing
stuff in the house and preparing for a doomsday. They
got chickens as a way of kind of future proofing
themselves against anything that would happen to food supplies. And
while she did have some kind of work that did
keep her someone to touch the outside world, it really
(08:30):
didn't do much to shake this group on her. She
would spend hours and hours every day just ingesting enormous
amounts of conspiracy content through social media that was, on
one hand, you know, kind of like giving her the answer,
you know, it was telling her what was going on,
explaining it, But the other hand was completely freaking around.
It was telling her everything was going wrong, that everyone
she knew was under thread that was going to die.
(08:52):
And then as time went on, this really had an
enormous strain in their relationship. There's this heartbreaking moment that
Danielle told me where she was, like it was her
fiftieth birthday around then, and they decided to travel across Australia.
Danielle would remember they would stop in the middle of
nowhere and Emily would like jump on top of the
(09:15):
car or go find hills and trees to get on
top of to try and find just some internet connection
so that she could stay attached to the latest theories
coming from these conspiracy theory influencers who she was connected to.
Emily even started to share these transphobic and homophobic views
despite herself being in a gay relationship. Ultimately, this change
(09:37):
and her loved one took such a toll Danielle couldn't
handle it anymore. You know. They tried together, they went
to therapy, but the long term relationship broke down as
a result of it.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
And so it sounds like Emily was consuming content twenty
four to seven. So can we talk about what it
was that she was watching and listening to and the
people who were actually producing that content and was motivating them.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, so like many of them, she was in a
whole bunch of different online communities. Some are just like
you know, other people with similar beliefs, and some are
more led by figures at the top who are kind
of more dedicated to this and published content on it.
Speaker 7 (10:18):
Evening Australia, Riccardo Bozi, National Leader of Australia one, well,
it's been a busy couple of weeks and where and
the warf of the world continues.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know. One example is a guy called Ricardo Bozi,
who is a SAS guy who at one point during
the pandemic said that all doctors and nurses should be hung.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
The loads of individuals that run this country for the
time being an offer months longer have persuaded too many
of us that we have to kill our kids.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And he was one of those people that Emily was
really locked into.
Speaker 7 (10:49):
So if the wars are coming, it's because the globalists
want the war. They wanted a trigger the world control
and they tried global cooling in the seventies, then they
tried global warming, They tried all sorts of nonsense and
they finally got the pandemicandemic.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And so you had, you know, at the same time
as Danielle was, you know, waiting for updates on COVID
numbers like all of us, Emily was simultaneously in on
platforms like telegram and other fringe spaces where they were
getting this completely alternate reality that was helping transform her
into someone that daniel didn't recognize.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
And so how cynical are you now about these influences.
Do you think that they all believe what they're saying
or is there a kind of cohort who manipulating people
for profit.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
It's really hard to know exactly what people believe. Sometimes
you have suspicions, but ultimately we can see that there
are incentive structures that make it possible for these figures
with influence to keep doing it. You know, they make
money off it, or at the very least they get attention.
You know, they promote these ideas. They tell you to
be fearful of everyone and everything, and the only person
(11:58):
you should trust is them, and very often they directly
even cash in on that by selling things, whether it's
courses or supplements or something like that. So we try
to be quite empathetic towards people who believe conspiracy theories
because we actually think it's a very human and understandable
thing to search for answers, even if they're not things
that most of us would agree with. But the people
(12:19):
who are responsible for encouraging people's beliefs, feeding those, regardless
of whatever they actually think, we view them critically because
ultimately they are feeding beliefs that end up changing these
people lives and are often directly benefiting from it themselves.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
And we all know that COVID was a time of
uncertainty and disruption, and it makes sense in a lot
of ways that conspiracy theories. You know, people were more
susceptible to believing them during that time. Has the effect
of that been long lasting or do you think that
people are now less susceptible because we're mostly out of
(12:55):
that error.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's a great question.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
There was a lot of discussion about whether this anti lockdown,
you know, quote unquote freedom movement might emerge as a
political force in Australia.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So in the.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Twenty twenty two election, I can remember as reporting on that,
we saw a lot of influences from that ecosystem promoting
connections with some of the minor parties here in Australia,
and so there was this open question about whether they
would be able to get actual members of Parliament senators elected.
Ultimately that didn't really bear out in kind of state
or federal level. That's a bit different actually at the
(13:26):
council level. In recent council elections in Victoria, New South Wales,
we did see candidates get onto councils in various sort
of regional areas in particular that do have ties to
some of these pandemic era movements and have fringe beliefs
about say vaccines or town planning. You know, when we
(13:47):
look at some of the science around conspiratorial belief, you
know there are limitations on a lot of these studies,
but there is some correlation between perceptions of inequality and
corruption and conspiratorial belief at the national level. I think,
as all journalists on this program right now, we can
(14:09):
safely say that transparency is lacking in government. If you've
ever tried to FOI any government department, you'll come up
against so many different barriers. I have turned a lot
in this book to some work from Naomi Klein. She
wrote a book on called Doppelganga, which it really sort
of fits into this discussion, and she said that conspiracy
theorists get the facts wrong, but the feelings right. So
(14:31):
the feeling of living in a world with shadow lands,
the feeling that every human misery is someone else's profit,
the feeling of being exhausted by predation extraction, and the
feeling that important truths are being hidden. Like, I don't
disagree with that feeling at all, and I can see
why people might turn to these ideas when faced with that.
And that's the kind of question that we should be
asking on a national level, how to address not the
(14:52):
feeling that so much as the reality of how that happens.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
In the next episode, we look at how it can speak.
Heirises can leap from the dark corners of message boards
to mainstream politics and the devastating and deadly consequences of
unchecked wise it's called from fringe to Parliament, and it's
in your feed now
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