November 12, 2025 • 16 mins
A letter to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has reopened the fight over gambling reform.
Independent MP Andrew Wilkie is calling for a free vote in parliament on a ban on gambling advertising, saying it has significant support across the chamber.
Inside Labor, many MPs say they want change – but are too afraid to speak publicly.
It follows a Four Corners investigation that showed how online betting is harming Australians – and how the systems meant to protect them are failing.
The government says it is acting, but two-and-a-half years on from a cross-party inquiry led by the late Peta Murphy, it has yet to implement any of its recommendations.
Today, ABC investigative reporter Steve Cannane on what his Four Corners reporting uncovered, and how Labor MPs are being kept quiet.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
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Guest: ABC Investigative reporter, Steve Cannane
Photo: AAP Image/Bianca De Marchi
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. A
letter to Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has reopened the fight
over gambling reform inside the Labor Party. MPs say they
want change but are too scared to speak publicly. It
comes as a Four Corners investigation has shown how much
(00:22):
online betting is harming Australians and their families, and how
the systems meant to protect them are failing the Government
says it's acting, pointing to measures like bettstop and ID checks,
but a cross party inquiry led by the late Peter
Murphy called for much more, including an outright ban on
gambling advertising, and two and a half years on, they
(00:43):
haven't acted on any of its recommendations. Today, ABC investigative
reporter Steve Knaine on what his Four Corners reporting uncovered
and how Labour MPs are being kept quiet. It's Thursday,
November thirteenth, so I thought we could begin with this
(01:10):
letter to the Prime Minister that you got a hold of.
Can you tell me what it's set?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, it's a letter written by Andrew Wilkie addressed to
the Prime Minister, who he knows quite well and he
has respect for and he's calling on him to allow
a free voting parliament on legislation to ban gambling advertising.
And he said in that letter that he believed that
an advertising ban had strong community support and that the
policy also had substantial backing in the Parliament. And he said,
(01:36):
and I'm quoting as evidenced by the number of our
parliamentary colleagues who've approached me since the recent ABC four
Corners program on online gambling. And he goes on to
say it would be naive for the government to think
it can continue to stonewall or drag out addressing the issue,
and that a free vote would be an effective way
to break the deadlock.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's referring there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
To the government's inaction on the parliamentary inquiry that was
chaired by the late Labor MP Peter Murphy that handed
down its report.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Close to two and a half years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Now on behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Policy
and Legal Affairs, I present the committee's report entitled You
Win Some, You Lose More Online gambling and its impacts
on those experience in gambling harm.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And it was a.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Cross party report that came up with thirty one unanimous
recommendations including bringing in a national regulator and a national
ombudsman for online gambling, banning those kind of inducements that
are used in VIP schemes that keep those addicted gamblers betting,
and also this ban on gambling advertising, which has really
dominated the debate in this space.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
The Committee has recommended a phased, comprehensive ban on all
gambling advertising on all media, broadcast and online of online
gambling services. It leaves no room for circumvention.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Partial bands haven't worked, and so Andrew Wilkie wrote this
letter for a few reasons. He wants action on gambling
reform has for years now. He thinks there's broad support
in the Parliament for the matter, and he also believes
that Labor backbenches are fearful about speaking out.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
There's every chance they know someone with a gambling addiction.
It could be their mum or their dad, or their
brother or their sister, or their son or their daughter,
or their friend or.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Their work colleague.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
And they look at us and they hear our debates
and they think, how can those politicians be so selfish
and so clueless and so weak?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And is that the case is their broad support among
Labor MPs and are they afraid of speaking out?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I spoke to over a dozen members of the
Labor caucus who want change on this matter. None of
them would put their names to what they said for
fear of repercussions. They not only want change, they think
if it was put to a conscience vote in the
Parliament that it would pass.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There's a number of Liberals who want action on this
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Peter Dunton wanted action on gambling advertising in the last parliament,
and of course the crossbencher all wanting action on this
as well. Now, if you combine the people I spoke
to and the Labor MPs who are known to support
change but would not return my calls, and then if
you look at the condolence motions for the late Labor
(04:14):
MP Peter Murphy and what a number of Labor MPs
were saying about the gambling industry, it's fair to say
that there are dozens of people in the Labor caucus
who want change on.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This Okay, So if that is the case, then what
do you know about the way that the Prime Minister's
office is responding to this kind of broad consensus that
there needs to be some change.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, the Prime Minister had an opportunity to pick up
on these reforms before the last election. It seems pretty
clear that the Labor leadership were concerned about the power
of the lobby groups in that area. I've also been
told by Labor sources that the Prime Minister's office has
been putting pressure on advocates for gambling reform within the
Parliamentary Party to prevent them from speaking up. And I
(04:57):
certainly spoke to a number of Labor EMPTI he's in
the lead up to my Four Corners program, hoping to
convince them to come on the program and talk about
the matter, but they would not go on camera. I
asked the PM's office, whether they're staff or senior members
of the government, put pressure on Labor MPs not to
speak to Four Corners and also not to speak up
more broadly on this issue, but they did not answer
(05:18):
that question.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So that's where it sits at the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, So that if that is the case, then that
the Prime Minister's office perhaps doesn't want people from the
party to be speaking about this. Can we talk about
the why why would the Prime minister be reticent to
take on the gambling industry?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, the gambling industry is incredibly powerful in Australia. But
it's not just them who would lose out from this legislation.
If the government was to bring in a ban on
gambling advertising, they'd be upsetting three powerful lobby groups. That
would be the gambling industry itself, specifically the sports betting industry,
also the sporting codes who now make a large cut
(05:58):
from gambling revenue from betting on their sport and really
i'm talking there about the NRL and the AFL, but
also the commercial media, and in particular commercial media that
has TV stations that rely on gambling advertising for their revenue.
And of course those commercial TV networks have been under
a lot of pressure for their business model to succeed
(06:20):
in recent years because there has been less advertising. It's
not the golden goose that it used to be, and
we have seen that in the print media as well.
So it would involve taking on three powerful lobby groups.
But that's why Andrew wilk is saying make it a
free vote, make it across the parties, so that the
lobby group's power is diminished, that they can't target one
(06:42):
party over the other.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think also there's another thing going on here.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think the culturally the PM is sympathetic to the
sporting codes and the gambling industry. He's a big Souths fan,
that is genuine. He has been so since he was
a young boy. You see him in the NRL box
with Peter's. He took Peter Velandi's to the White House
for a dinner with Joe Biden. But there's also a
historical thing going on here. The Prime Minister is very pragmatic.
(07:10):
He understands the power of the lobby group. He was
around when Julia Gillard was in minority government had a
deal with Andrew wilk to bring in mandatory pre commitment
on poker machines, and he saw the backlash from the
club's industry and labour MPs including him were targeted by
the club's industry and in the end that commitment to
(07:31):
bring in mandatory commitment was broken. So I think there's
a number of things going on here. The power of
the lobby groups, the history of the gambling lobby. It's
a different part of the gambling lobby but did target
them back in the twenty tens. But also a kind
of a cultural affinity between Anthony Albanesi and the sporting codes.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
So I think there's a few things going on here.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Coming up. How Anthony Albanesi often shares talking points with
the gambling lobby Steve What is the Prime Minister Anthony
alb Easy and his office saying about the way that
they are approaching gambling reform.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, they say they've done more to reduce gambling harm
than any government in Australian history, and they point to
the fact they brought in betstop and a credit card
ban ID verification for online gambling.
Speaker 7 (08:29):
Australians will be able to ban themselves from every online
betting company with just one simple registration. The National Self
Exclusion Register will also stop gambling companies from sending out
marketing material with the threat of big fines if they do.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And now, bet Stop is a good thing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's not a flawless system, but it's definitely improved people's
lives who've had gambling addictions, there's no doubt about that.
But I have spoken to people who've still been getting
contacted by betting agencies courtesy of that. But it should
be remembered that that was a process that was started
off under the Liberal government, so it's not entirely down
(09:07):
to the Labor Party that that is the case. I
asked the Prime Minister's Office on a couple of occasions,
name one recommendation that you've taken up from the Murphy Review,
and they never answer that question. They certainly haven't taken
up the main recommendations of the Murphy Review, which is
a ban on advertising, bringing in a national regulator and
a national mbudsman, having a Minister responsible for all of
(09:31):
the gambling issues, also banning inducements and banning commissions in
the industry. They certainly haven't tackled them. I've given them
an opportunity to tell me of one minor thing that
they've taken on from the Murphy Review, but they've never
provided that.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And you spoke to people within the industry itself, you know,
people like the CEO of Responsible Wagering Australia. Tell me
about the case they're making.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, Responsible Wagering Australia are a lobby group and a
peak body group that represents six of the biggest online
book makers, and I spoke to Kay Campwell, who is
the CEO of Responsible Wagering. I also put requests to
a number of the big batting agencies to talk to
their CEOs and they wouldn't put anyone forward, but Kay
(10:18):
camp Will did go on camera for four corners. Why
doesn't the industry support a total band because.
Speaker 8 (10:24):
Total bands won't be effective. Total bands will simply drive
Australian consumers into the illegal offshore market where there are
no consumer protections.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Now, the Murphy Review heard evidence that was contrary to this,
and they cited the example of Spain that changed the
lord of prohibit gambling advertising between five am and one am,
and apparently the Spanish gambling regulator said that the predictions
of industry had not borne out.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
We've seen evidence internationally, so we've seen evidence in Norway, Denmark, Sweden.
There is a swede of evidence across the world that
says that overregulation drives people into the illegal offshore market.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
We spoke to authorities in those countries and they dispute
what he was saying.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
We've heard the Prime Minister say the same thing as
well though, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In an interview with Claudia Long of the ABC, he
mentioned that offshore argument.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
What's in our mind is practicalities of whether people just
go offshore then there's no revenue at all, they engage
in gambling with no revenue coming back at all, and
it doesn't solve the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
He's also used that line the right to punt.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
A gambling is legal in Australia. We respect people's right
to have a punt, but we also have a responsibility
to make sure that the industry acts responsibly and that's
what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Also in question time in Parliament, when he.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Was asked a question about this last year, he suggested
that lotteries and loto were causing more harm than online betting.
Speaker 10 (11:59):
More there around about fifteen percent. Off the top of
my head, it's about that figure comes from lotteries and
lot o and those tickets as well.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No one knows where those figures come from. They don't
stack up with the data. David Pocock Senator David Pocock,
the Independent Senator for the Act, told me that only
two people have said that publicly, the Prime Minister and
Peter Valandi's where.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Did these starts come from?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
No one knows, No one has any idea and the
only two people who've said them publicly are Peter Landis
and the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
And that's a real worry.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So there's an argument from the cross benches and people
who who are advocates for gambling reform, that the Prime
Minister is mimicking the retoric of the lobby groups here.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And what is the scope of what Australia is dealing with,
Steve in terms of the harms of gambling and the
amount of money that's being lost.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Well, we lose more per head of population than any
country in the world. The most recent things we have
that we lose thirty two billion dollars a year. That's
not how much we gamble, that's how much we lose.
And look, the Productivity Commission has looked into this twice.
They consider it incredibly unproductive that this money is being
spent in this way, not to mention the social harm
(13:16):
it affects families. And in our Four Corners program, you know,
we spoke to people who, courtesy of addictions to online
sports betting, had family members who'd taken their own lives,
people who to end up in jail. I've spoken to
people whose businesses have been defrauded, or people who've had
financial advisors steal their money because they were in the
(13:38):
throes of a gambling addiction that was being encouraged by
VIP managers who work for these sports betting industries and
everyone you talk to has a story. Everyone knows somebody
who's been exposed to this kind of harm.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And the fact that Peter Murphy's review, you know, it's
two and a half years on her thirty one recommends
haven't been put in place by the Labor Party. But
this is the legacy of someone who was incredibly popular
within the party and well known. So the fact that
you know there has not been action on this at
this point in time, what does it say to you, Steve,
(14:15):
about where the Labor Party is at on this issue
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, they really are dragging their feet on the issue.
Because it's standard practice that a parliamentary inquiry like this
that the Government of the day responds within six months,
and it's now two and a half years. It shows
you the reticence within the leadership to take on this issue.
A lot of people say it's the fear of the
gambling lobby, the fear of the commercial media, the fear
(14:40):
of the sporting codes. It also shows you the fear
of the backbench. They're not really speaking out about it,
despite the fact that there are so many in the
Labor caucus who believe in gambling reform. I think it
also speaks to another issue, which is it's not an
issue that's coming out in polling in focus groups, that
(15:02):
perhaps this is not an issue compared to say, the
cost of living. If it was something that was being
rammed down the politician's throats, and they might take action
on it. But bear in mind that this committee was
a cross party committee. They weighed the evidence, they heard
from all sides of the argument, They got international evidence
and research. So most people who know the area say
(15:25):
that it was a very thorough, very rigorous committee process
and that Peter Murphy came up with some strong recommendations
that would minimize harm from an industry that many people,
including many people in the labor Caucus, consider to be
full of predatory practices.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, Steve, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
My pleasure to be.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Also in the news, former CFMU leader John Set has
been arrested and charged by Victoria police after allegedly send
threatening and harassing emails to a union administrator. The sixty
one year old has been charged with seven counts of
using a telecom communications device to menace, harass and defend
and Australia and Indonesia have agreed on a new security
(16:18):
treaty that commits the countries to consult each other if
either is threatened. Prime Minister Anthony Abnezi says the treaty
also commits to regular security dialogue between leaders and closer
cooperation in defense and security fields. I'm Ruby Jones. This
is seven am. Thanks for listening.
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven Am. A
letter to Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi has reopened the fight
over gambling reform inside the Labor Party. MPs say they
want change but are too scared to speak publicly. It
comes as a Four Corners investigation has shown how much
(00:22):
online betting is harming Australians and their families, and how
the systems meant to protect them are failing the Government
says it's acting, pointing to measures like bettstop and ID checks,
but a cross party inquiry led by the late Peter
Murphy called for much more, including an outright ban on
gambling advertising, and two and a half years on, they
(00:43):
haven't acted on any of its recommendations. Today, ABC investigative
reporter Steve Knaine on what his Four Corners reporting uncovered
and how Labour MPs are being kept quiet. It's Thursday,
November thirteenth, so I thought we could begin with this
(01:10):
letter to the Prime Minister that you got a hold of.
Can you tell me what it's set?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, it's a letter written by Andrew Wilkie addressed to
the Prime Minister, who he knows quite well and he
has respect for and he's calling on him to allow
a free voting parliament on legislation to ban gambling advertising.
And he said in that letter that he believed that
an advertising ban had strong community support and that the
policy also had substantial backing in the Parliament. And he said,
(01:36):
and I'm quoting as evidenced by the number of our
parliamentary colleagues who've approached me since the recent ABC four
Corners program on online gambling. And he goes on to
say it would be naive for the government to think
it can continue to stonewall or drag out addressing the issue,
and that a free vote would be an effective way
to break the deadlock.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
And he's referring there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
To the government's inaction on the parliamentary inquiry that was
chaired by the late Labor MP Peter Murphy that handed
down its report.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Close to two and a half years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Now on behalf of the Standing Committee on Social Policy
and Legal Affairs, I present the committee's report entitled You
Win Some, You Lose More Online gambling and its impacts
on those experience in gambling harm.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And it was a.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Cross party report that came up with thirty one unanimous
recommendations including bringing in a national regulator and a national
ombudsman for online gambling, banning those kind of inducements that
are used in VIP schemes that keep those addicted gamblers betting,
and also this ban on gambling advertising, which has really
dominated the debate in this space.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
The Committee has recommended a phased, comprehensive ban on all
gambling advertising on all media, broadcast and online of online
gambling services. It leaves no room for circumvention.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Partial bands haven't worked, and so Andrew Wilkie wrote this
letter for a few reasons. He wants action on gambling
reform has for years now. He thinks there's broad support
in the Parliament for the matter, and he also believes
that Labor backbenches are fearful about speaking out.
Speaker 6 (03:10):
There's every chance they know someone with a gambling addiction.
It could be their mum or their dad, or their
brother or their sister, or their son or their daughter,
or their friend or.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Their work colleague.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
And they look at us and they hear our debates
and they think, how can those politicians be so selfish
and so clueless and so weak?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And is that the case is their broad support among
Labor MPs and are they afraid of speaking out?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I spoke to over a dozen members of the
Labor caucus who want change on this matter. None of
them would put their names to what they said for
fear of repercussions. They not only want change, they think
if it was put to a conscience vote in the
Parliament that it would pass.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There's a number of Liberals who want action on this
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Peter Dunton wanted action on gambling advertising in the last parliament,
and of course the crossbencher all wanting action on this
as well. Now, if you combine the people I spoke
to and the Labor MPs who are known to support
change but would not return my calls, and then if
you look at the condolence motions for the late Labor
(04:14):
MP Peter Murphy and what a number of Labor MPs
were saying about the gambling industry, it's fair to say
that there are dozens of people in the Labor caucus
who want change on.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
This Okay, So if that is the case, then what
do you know about the way that the Prime Minister's
office is responding to this kind of broad consensus that
there needs to be some change.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, the Prime Minister had an opportunity to pick up
on these reforms before the last election. It seems pretty
clear that the Labor leadership were concerned about the power
of the lobby groups in that area. I've also been
told by Labor sources that the Prime Minister's office has
been putting pressure on advocates for gambling reform within the
Parliamentary Party to prevent them from speaking up. And I
(04:57):
certainly spoke to a number of Labor EMPTI he's in
the lead up to my Four Corners program, hoping to
convince them to come on the program and talk about
the matter, but they would not go on camera. I
asked the PM's office, whether they're staff or senior members
of the government, put pressure on Labor MPs not to
speak to Four Corners and also not to speak up
more broadly on this issue, but they did not answer
(05:18):
that question.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
So that's where it sits at the moment.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Okay, So that if that is the case, then that
the Prime Minister's office perhaps doesn't want people from the
party to be speaking about this. Can we talk about
the why why would the Prime minister be reticent to
take on the gambling industry?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, the gambling industry is incredibly powerful in Australia. But
it's not just them who would lose out from this legislation.
If the government was to bring in a ban on
gambling advertising, they'd be upsetting three powerful lobby groups. That
would be the gambling industry itself, specifically the sports betting industry,
also the sporting codes who now make a large cut
(05:58):
from gambling revenue from betting on their sport and really
i'm talking there about the NRL and the AFL, but
also the commercial media, and in particular commercial media that
has TV stations that rely on gambling advertising for their revenue.
And of course those commercial TV networks have been under
a lot of pressure for their business model to succeed
(06:20):
in recent years because there has been less advertising. It's
not the golden goose that it used to be, and
we have seen that in the print media as well.
So it would involve taking on three powerful lobby groups.
But that's why Andrew wilk is saying make it a
free vote, make it across the parties, so that the
lobby group's power is diminished, that they can't target one
(06:42):
party over the other.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I think also there's another thing going on here.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I think the culturally the PM is sympathetic to the
sporting codes and the gambling industry. He's a big Souths fan,
that is genuine. He has been so since he was
a young boy. You see him in the NRL box
with Peter's. He took Peter Velandi's to the White House
for a dinner with Joe Biden. But there's also a
historical thing going on here. The Prime Minister is very pragmatic.
(07:10):
He understands the power of the lobby group. He was
around when Julia Gillard was in minority government had a
deal with Andrew wilk to bring in mandatory pre commitment
on poker machines, and he saw the backlash from the
club's industry and labour MPs including him were targeted by
the club's industry and in the end that commitment to
(07:31):
bring in mandatory commitment was broken. So I think there's
a number of things going on here. The power of
the lobby groups, the history of the gambling lobby. It's
a different part of the gambling lobby but did target
them back in the twenty tens. But also a kind
of a cultural affinity between Anthony Albanesi and the sporting codes.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
So I think there's a few things going on here.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Coming up. How Anthony Albanesi often shares talking points with
the gambling lobby Steve What is the Prime Minister Anthony
alb Easy and his office saying about the way that
they are approaching gambling reform.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Well, they say they've done more to reduce gambling harm
than any government in Australian history, and they point to
the fact they brought in betstop and a credit card
ban ID verification for online gambling.
Speaker 7 (08:29):
Australians will be able to ban themselves from every online
betting company with just one simple registration. The National Self
Exclusion Register will also stop gambling companies from sending out
marketing material with the threat of big fines if they do.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And now, bet Stop is a good thing.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It's not a flawless system, but it's definitely improved people's
lives who've had gambling addictions, there's no doubt about that.
But I have spoken to people who've still been getting
contacted by betting agencies courtesy of that. But it should
be remembered that that was a process that was started
off under the Liberal government, so it's not entirely down
(09:07):
to the Labor Party that that is the case. I
asked the Prime Minister's Office on a couple of occasions,
name one recommendation that you've taken up from the Murphy Review,
and they never answer that question. They certainly haven't taken
up the main recommendations of the Murphy Review, which is
a ban on advertising, bringing in a national regulator and
a national mbudsman, having a Minister responsible for all of
(09:31):
the gambling issues, also banning inducements and banning commissions in
the industry. They certainly haven't tackled them. I've given them
an opportunity to tell me of one minor thing that
they've taken on from the Murphy Review, but they've never
provided that.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And you spoke to people within the industry itself, you know,
people like the CEO of Responsible Wagering Australia. Tell me
about the case they're making.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, Responsible Wagering Australia are a lobby group and a
peak body group that represents six of the biggest online
book makers, and I spoke to Kay Campwell, who is
the CEO of Responsible Wagering. I also put requests to
a number of the big batting agencies to talk to
their CEOs and they wouldn't put anyone forward, but Kay
(10:18):
camp Will did go on camera for four corners. Why
doesn't the industry support a total band because.
Speaker 8 (10:24):
Total bands won't be effective. Total bands will simply drive
Australian consumers into the illegal offshore market where there are
no consumer protections.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Now, the Murphy Review heard evidence that was contrary to this,
and they cited the example of Spain that changed the
lord of prohibit gambling advertising between five am and one am,
and apparently the Spanish gambling regulator said that the predictions
of industry had not borne out.
Speaker 8 (10:51):
We've seen evidence internationally, so we've seen evidence in Norway, Denmark, Sweden.
There is a swede of evidence across the world that
says that overregulation drives people into the illegal offshore market.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
We spoke to authorities in those countries and they dispute
what he was saying.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
We've heard the Prime Minister say the same thing as
well though, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
In an interview with Claudia Long of the ABC, he
mentioned that offshore argument.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
What's in our mind is practicalities of whether people just
go offshore then there's no revenue at all, they engage
in gambling with no revenue coming back at all, and
it doesn't solve the problem.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
He's also used that line the right to punt.
Speaker 10 (11:36):
A gambling is legal in Australia. We respect people's right
to have a punt, but we also have a responsibility
to make sure that the industry acts responsibly and that's
what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Also in question time in Parliament, when he.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Was asked a question about this last year, he suggested
that lotteries and loto were causing more harm than online betting.
Speaker 10 (11:59):
More there around about fifteen percent. Off the top of
my head, it's about that figure comes from lotteries and
lot o and those tickets as well.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No one knows where those figures come from. They don't
stack up with the data. David Pocock Senator David Pocock,
the Independent Senator for the Act, told me that only
two people have said that publicly, the Prime Minister and
Peter Valandi's where.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Did these starts come from?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
No one knows, No one has any idea and the
only two people who've said them publicly are Peter Landis
and the Prime Minister.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
And that's a real worry.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
So there's an argument from the cross benches and people
who who are advocates for gambling reform, that the Prime
Minister is mimicking the retoric of the lobby groups here.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And what is the scope of what Australia is dealing with,
Steve in terms of the harms of gambling and the
amount of money that's being lost.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Well, we lose more per head of population than any
country in the world. The most recent things we have
that we lose thirty two billion dollars a year. That's
not how much we gamble, that's how much we lose.
And look, the Productivity Commission has looked into this twice.
They consider it incredibly unproductive that this money is being
spent in this way, not to mention the social harm
(13:16):
it affects families. And in our Four Corners program, you know,
we spoke to people who, courtesy of addictions to online
sports betting, had family members who'd taken their own lives,
people who to end up in jail. I've spoken to
people whose businesses have been defrauded, or people who've had
financial advisors steal their money because they were in the
(13:38):
throes of a gambling addiction that was being encouraged by
VIP managers who work for these sports betting industries and
everyone you talk to has a story. Everyone knows somebody
who's been exposed to this kind of harm.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
And the fact that Peter Murphy's review, you know, it's
two and a half years on her thirty one recommends
haven't been put in place by the Labor Party. But
this is the legacy of someone who was incredibly popular
within the party and well known. So the fact that
you know there has not been action on this at
this point in time, what does it say to you, Steve,
(14:15):
about where the Labor Party is at on this issue
at the moment.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well, they really are dragging their feet on the issue.
Because it's standard practice that a parliamentary inquiry like this
that the Government of the day responds within six months,
and it's now two and a half years. It shows
you the reticence within the leadership to take on this issue.
A lot of people say it's the fear of the
gambling lobby, the fear of the commercial media, the fear
(14:40):
of the sporting codes. It also shows you the fear
of the backbench. They're not really speaking out about it,
despite the fact that there are so many in the
Labor caucus who believe in gambling reform. I think it
also speaks to another issue, which is it's not an
issue that's coming out in polling in focus groups, that
(15:02):
perhaps this is not an issue compared to say, the
cost of living. If it was something that was being
rammed down the politician's throats, and they might take action
on it. But bear in mind that this committee was
a cross party committee. They weighed the evidence, they heard
from all sides of the argument, They got international evidence
and research. So most people who know the area say
(15:25):
that it was a very thorough, very rigorous committee process
and that Peter Murphy came up with some strong recommendations
that would minimize harm from an industry that many people,
including many people in the labor Caucus, consider to be
full of predatory practices.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Well, Steve, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
My pleasure to be.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Also in the news, former CFMU leader John Set has
been arrested and charged by Victoria police after allegedly send
threatening and harassing emails to a union administrator. The sixty
one year old has been charged with seven counts of
using a telecom communications device to menace, harass and defend
and Australia and Indonesia have agreed on a new security
(16:18):
treaty that commits the countries to consult each other if
either is threatened. Prime Minister Anthony Abnezi says the treaty
also commits to regular security dialogue between leaders and closer
cooperation in defense and security fields. I'm Ruby Jones. This
is seven am. Thanks for listening.
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