August 5, 2025 • 11 mins
At the height of the Islamic State’s power in Syria, hundreds of Australians are thought to have joined their ranks.
But as security agencies cracked down on people leaving the country, Australian ISIS supporters turned their focus here. What followed was a string of attacks and foiled plots.
Now, as ISIS once again gains a foothold in Syria, attacks are expected to rise in Australia.
Today, investigative reporter for the ABC Sean Rubinsztein-Dunlop on Australia’s ISIS supporters, the spiritual leader who has flown under the radar for years – and the informant who risked his life to blow the whistle.
This is part one of a two-part series.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
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Guest: Investigative reporter for the ABC Sean Rubinsztein-Dunlop
Photo: Sissy Reyes, Four Corners
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM.
At the height of the Islamic States power in Syria,
hundreds of Australians are thought to have joined their ranks.
But as security agencies cracked down on people leaving the country,
Australian ISIS supporters turned their focus here. What followed was
(00:25):
a string of attacks and foiled plots. Now, as ISIS
once again gains a foothold in Syria, a tacks are
again expected to rise in Australia Today. Investigative reporter for
the ABC, Sean Rubinstein Dunlop on Australia's IIS supporters, the
spiritual leader who has flown under the radar for years,
(00:46):
and a human intelligence officer who risked his life to
blow the whistle. This is part one of a two
part episode. It's Wednesday, August six. Sean, thanks for speaking
with us. Tell me where you're reporting on Wassam Haddad began.
(01:07):
When did you start paying attention to him?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Look, I've been looking at Wissam Hadad for well over
a decade. Back when the Syrian War was kicking off
in the early twenty tens. He was running a prayer
center and bookshop in western Sydney called the Al Rissala
Islamic Center, and that became a gathering place for a
(01:29):
lot of young people who ended up being recruited and
going to fight for the Islamic State terrorist group in Syria.
It was a hub for terrorist recruiters as we know
now and a real focus for counter terrorism police and
for Australia's intelligence agency. Azo Wisam Hadad became a very
(01:53):
public supporter of the Islamic State network. We've now identified
that he's the spiritual leader to Sydney's pro Islamic State
network and at the time of the Syrian War, he
was celebrating atrocities over there, cheering on his Australian friends,
like the notorious terrorist colored Tcharouf who since died, celebrating beheadings.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
A seven year old boy posing for the camera holding
the most gruesome of prizes as severed head. This twisted
piece of social media posted on the Twitter account of
Australian jihadis Colored Sharuf with the caption that's my boy.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So Wissam Haddad became a very notorious figure and one
that I took a great interest in as someone investigating
the resurgence of terrorism and jihadism in Australia at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And as the role for Australians fighting for USIS oversees
became more obvious, the government crack down and stopped Australians
from going. So when they did that, what impact did
that have on communities here in Australia who would have gone. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So, as more and more Australians, young Australians were traveling
over to Syria, ASIO and the counter terrorism police became
very worried about what kind of capabilities they would build
over there for terrorism and the risk of what would
happen if they came back to Australia. So they started
(03:24):
canceling passports of Australians before they could leave and grounding
them in Australia. What happened then was that these guys
and young women became very frustrated and we saw a
change in the terrorist methodology in Australia where they started
focusing on planning and undertaking terrorist attacks at home. One
(03:48):
example that might stick in people's minds was the shooting
of a police accountant, Curtis Cheng, at the New South
Wales Police headquarters in Paramatta by a fifteen year old bo.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Curtis Chang was a police employee. He worked as a
senior accountant at New South Wales Police headquarters in Paramatta.
On Friday, the second of October, he left to go
home and he was shot and killed. Fifteen year old
offender had an exchange of gunfire with New South Wales
Police Special constables.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Now he was part of a terrorism group that became
known as the Applebee group. That was the nickname that
police gave it, or the code name, and that was
a group of dozens of like minded jihadists in Sydney
with connections in other states, who were intent on carrying
(04:41):
out acts of terrorism here.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Today, officers from the Joint counter Terrorism Team have charged
four men with very very serious offenses and we will
be alleging that they are involved in a plot that
they were going to carry out which was got terrorist
attack which resulted in the death of Curtis Chain in Autoris.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
We know that Wissom her Dad was regularly on the
periphery of investigations into that group, but he's never been
convicted or charged with a terrorism offense. In recent years, though,
as the Syrian War died down, and after the defeat
of Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, things got a
(05:28):
lot more quiet. But what we know is that the
threat level has ramped back up in the last year
or two and it's expected to increase even more. We
saw a series of terrorist attacks and arrests last year,
both by Islamic State supporters and people with other extremist ideologies,
(05:51):
and our authorities are really hon alert for that rise
in activity involving terrorist groups abroad and in Australia.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
After the break with some hardad's street preaching charity. As
you said, Sean, it's never been charged with a terrorist defense.
So where is the line in Australia between speaking in
a way that could be seen to incite violence and
(06:24):
committing an offense.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, the ASIER boss, Mike Burgess talks a lot about
the fact that in Australia you can be.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Awful but lawful.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's a free country. But where the line is when
you plan to do that in a violent way.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
If you attack a law, if you attack our prophet,
our religion and our fellow brothers and sisters, and if
you attack our lands, then you are going to be
mets with men who love death more than you love life.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Now in with some her Dad's case, he again has
a prayer center in Sydney and he's now very active
as a jihadi influencer on social media as well. He
tends to deliver his messages about the violence she had
as religious lectures towards.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
It in the times when the Muslims will be fighting
the Jews, the trees will speak, the stone will speak,
and I will say, Oh, Muslim, I believe there is
a Yahudi behind me, come and kill him.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
He tends to say, I'm not the one saying this
should happen. I'm just quoting people who do. Now, we
saw recently, just last month that he was found by
the federal court who have actually breached the Racial Discrimination
Act with his anti Semitic lectures.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But that was the.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
First time he'd been pulled back from doing something like that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Wissam Hadad delivers these messages through a charity. Can you
tell me about that?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So Astonishingly, despite his notoriety as a Jihadi spiritual leader,
Wisam Hahdad was able to register an organization as a
charity back in twenty twenty two. Now, this is a
group called the Dawa Van. They are a roving group
of street preachers. You see them in Sydney's CBD, sometimes
(08:28):
outside town Hall. You see them in Bankstown in Sydney
Southwest as well, and they of portray themselves as the
peaceful messengers of the prophet Muhammad, spreading the word of Islam,
and they literally try to convert random strangers to their
interpretation of Islam on the streets. Now, what we discovered
(08:52):
through our Four Corners investigation which ran earlier this year,
was that this group was radicalizing young people into supporting
the Islamic State terrorist group, all the while claiming tax
breaks as a government registered charity. We interviewed a former
ASIO undercover agent who infiltrated with some of her dad's
(09:17):
network and as part of that was involved in this
street preaching charity.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
I lived two lives, one normal life. My family they
have no idea, they don't know anything about this job
at all, and I lived another life.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And he told us how he witnessed first hand teenagers,
young people, juveniles in some instances being radicalized and some
of them ultimately were convicted of terrorism offenses.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
Some of my targets were affected by I would say
its teachings and suggesting he radicalized. Yes, they became extremist
after they attended and Medina Dawa Central and been and
have been exposed to the speech and the listens.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Since our story has gone to air, the Australian charities regulator,
the Australian Charities Are Not for Profits Commission, has de
registered the Dawa Van as a charity. But it doesn't
stop this organization from operating. It just stops them from
claiming tax breaks. So it's certainly a financial hit for
(10:36):
Wisom Hadad, but he has already and will undoubtedly continue
to portray this as he does as part of the
West's campaign against Islam. Everything for him is an opportunity
to radicalize young people, to convince them that this country's
(10:57):
against them.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Mister Hadad's lawyer told the ABC the Dawa Van was
working through this issue with relevant authorities. He said mister
Hadad vehemently denies allegations that he or the organization were
recruiting people into terrorism or that he was a leader
of a pro Isis network. In the next episode, we
(11:28):
hear about the cost of being an AZIO undercover agent,
the huge risks they take, the lack of protection and
what that means for Asio's ability to recruit. It's called
a warning from an undercover Asio informant, and it's in
your feed now
Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM.
At the height of the Islamic States power in Syria,
hundreds of Australians are thought to have joined their ranks.
But as security agencies cracked down on people leaving the country,
Australian ISIS supporters turned their focus here. What followed was
(00:25):
a string of attacks and foiled plots. Now, as ISIS
once again gains a foothold in Syria, a tacks are
again expected to rise in Australia Today. Investigative reporter for
the ABC, Sean Rubinstein Dunlop on Australia's IIS supporters, the
spiritual leader who has flown under the radar for years,
(00:46):
and a human intelligence officer who risked his life to
blow the whistle. This is part one of a two
part episode. It's Wednesday, August six. Sean, thanks for speaking
with us. Tell me where you're reporting on Wassam Haddad began.
(01:07):
When did you start paying attention to him?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Look, I've been looking at Wissam Hadad for well over
a decade. Back when the Syrian War was kicking off
in the early twenty tens. He was running a prayer
center and bookshop in western Sydney called the Al Rissala
Islamic Center, and that became a gathering place for a
(01:29):
lot of young people who ended up being recruited and
going to fight for the Islamic State terrorist group in Syria.
It was a hub for terrorist recruiters as we know
now and a real focus for counter terrorism police and
for Australia's intelligence agency. Azo Wisam Hadad became a very
(01:53):
public supporter of the Islamic State network. We've now identified
that he's the spiritual leader to Sydney's pro Islamic State
network and at the time of the Syrian War, he
was celebrating atrocities over there, cheering on his Australian friends,
like the notorious terrorist colored Tcharouf who since died, celebrating beheadings.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
A seven year old boy posing for the camera holding
the most gruesome of prizes as severed head. This twisted
piece of social media posted on the Twitter account of
Australian jihadis Colored Sharuf with the caption that's my boy.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So Wissam Haddad became a very notorious figure and one
that I took a great interest in as someone investigating
the resurgence of terrorism and jihadism in Australia at the time.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And as the role for Australians fighting for USIS oversees
became more obvious, the government crack down and stopped Australians
from going. So when they did that, what impact did
that have on communities here in Australia who would have gone. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
So, as more and more Australians, young Australians were traveling
over to Syria, ASIO and the counter terrorism police became
very worried about what kind of capabilities they would build
over there for terrorism and the risk of what would
happen if they came back to Australia. So they started
(03:24):
canceling passports of Australians before they could leave and grounding
them in Australia. What happened then was that these guys
and young women became very frustrated and we saw a
change in the terrorist methodology in Australia where they started
focusing on planning and undertaking terrorist attacks at home. One
(03:48):
example that might stick in people's minds was the shooting
of a police accountant, Curtis Cheng, at the New South
Wales Police headquarters in Paramatta by a fifteen year old bo.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Curtis Chang was a police employee. He worked as a
senior accountant at New South Wales Police headquarters in Paramatta.
On Friday, the second of October, he left to go
home and he was shot and killed. Fifteen year old
offender had an exchange of gunfire with New South Wales
Police Special constables.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Now he was part of a terrorism group that became
known as the Applebee group. That was the nickname that
police gave it, or the code name, and that was
a group of dozens of like minded jihadists in Sydney
with connections in other states, who were intent on carrying
(04:41):
out acts of terrorism here.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Today, officers from the Joint counter Terrorism Team have charged
four men with very very serious offenses and we will
be alleging that they are involved in a plot that
they were going to carry out which was got terrorist
attack which resulted in the death of Curtis Chain in Autoris.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
We know that Wissom her Dad was regularly on the
periphery of investigations into that group, but he's never been
convicted or charged with a terrorism offense. In recent years, though,
as the Syrian War died down, and after the defeat
of Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, things got a
(05:28):
lot more quiet. But what we know is that the
threat level has ramped back up in the last year
or two and it's expected to increase even more. We
saw a series of terrorist attacks and arrests last year,
both by Islamic State supporters and people with other extremist ideologies,
(05:51):
and our authorities are really hon alert for that rise
in activity involving terrorist groups abroad and in Australia.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
After the break with some hardad's street preaching charity. As
you said, Sean, it's never been charged with a terrorist defense.
So where is the line in Australia between speaking in
a way that could be seen to incite violence and
(06:24):
committing an offense.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, the ASIER boss, Mike Burgess talks a lot about
the fact that in Australia you can be.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Awful but lawful.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
It's a free country. But where the line is when
you plan to do that in a violent way.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
If you attack a law, if you attack our prophet,
our religion and our fellow brothers and sisters, and if
you attack our lands, then you are going to be
mets with men who love death more than you love life.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Now in with some her Dad's case, he again has
a prayer center in Sydney and he's now very active
as a jihadi influencer on social media as well. He
tends to deliver his messages about the violence she had
as religious lectures towards.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
It in the times when the Muslims will be fighting
the Jews, the trees will speak, the stone will speak,
and I will say, Oh, Muslim, I believe there is
a Yahudi behind me, come and kill him.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
He tends to say, I'm not the one saying this
should happen. I'm just quoting people who do. Now, we
saw recently, just last month that he was found by
the federal court who have actually breached the Racial Discrimination
Act with his anti Semitic lectures.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But that was the.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
First time he'd been pulled back from doing something like that.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Wissam Hadad delivers these messages through a charity. Can you
tell me about that?
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So Astonishingly, despite his notoriety as a Jihadi spiritual leader,
Wisam Hahdad was able to register an organization as a
charity back in twenty twenty two. Now, this is a
group called the Dawa Van. They are a roving group
of street preachers. You see them in Sydney's CBD, sometimes
(08:28):
outside town Hall. You see them in Bankstown in Sydney
Southwest as well, and they of portray themselves as the
peaceful messengers of the prophet Muhammad, spreading the word of Islam,
and they literally try to convert random strangers to their
interpretation of Islam on the streets. Now, what we discovered
(08:52):
through our Four Corners investigation which ran earlier this year,
was that this group was radicalizing young people into supporting
the Islamic State terrorist group, all the while claiming tax
breaks as a government registered charity. We interviewed a former
ASIO undercover agent who infiltrated with some of her dad's
(09:17):
network and as part of that was involved in this
street preaching charity.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
I lived two lives, one normal life. My family they
have no idea, they don't know anything about this job
at all, and I lived another life.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And he told us how he witnessed first hand teenagers,
young people, juveniles in some instances being radicalized and some
of them ultimately were convicted of terrorism offenses.
Speaker 6 (09:51):
Some of my targets were affected by I would say
its teachings and suggesting he radicalized. Yes, they became extremist
after they attended and Medina Dawa Central and been and
have been exposed to the speech and the listens.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Since our story has gone to air, the Australian charities regulator,
the Australian Charities Are Not for Profits Commission, has de
registered the Dawa Van as a charity. But it doesn't
stop this organization from operating. It just stops them from
claiming tax breaks. So it's certainly a financial hit for
(10:36):
Wisom Hadad, but he has already and will undoubtedly continue
to portray this as he does as part of the
West's campaign against Islam. Everything for him is an opportunity
to radicalize young people, to convince them that this country's
(10:57):
against them.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Mister Hadad's lawyer told the ABC the Dawa Van was
working through this issue with relevant authorities. He said mister
Hadad vehemently denies allegations that he or the organization were
recruiting people into terrorism or that he was a leader
of a pro Isis network. In the next episode, we
(11:28):
hear about the cost of being an AZIO undercover agent,
the huge risks they take, the lack of protection and
what that means for Asio's ability to recruit. It's called
a warning from an undercover Asio informant, and it's in
your feed now
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