September 11, 2025 • 16 mins
When Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan introduced the state's treaty bill into parliament, she said it would pave the way for a formal apology, the introduction of Aboriginal truth-telling into the school curriculum, and a better future for Indigenous Australians in the state.
The treaty is the culmination of almost a decade of work that established the First Peoples’ Assembly – which led the negotiations – and delivers on ‘Voice, Treaty and Truth’, making Victoria the first state in the country to do so.
Today, the co-chairs of the First Peoples’ Assembly, Ngarra Murray and Rueben Berg, on what they hope Victoria’s treaty will deliver – and how its success will be measured.
This is part one of a two-part episode.
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Guest: Co-Chairs of the First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria, Ngarra Murray and Rueben Berg.
Photo: AAP Image/Pool, Justin McManus
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This nation. Leading bill and the treaty process as a
whole shows what we can achieve when we listen to
first peoples and work together for better outcomes.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
As Victorian Premier just sent to Allan introduced Australia's first
ever treaty to Parliament, she said it would pave the
way for a formal apology, the introduction of Aboriginal truth
telling into the school curriculum, and offer a better future
for Indigenous Australians in the state.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It honors and affirms special connection the First peoples have
to country, this place now known as Victoria, which we
all call home. It reckons with the wrongs of the
past and sets a new course, guided by truth, to
a better future.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
The treaty is the combination of almost a decade of
work establishing the First People's Assembly, who led the negotiations,
and it delivers on voice, treaty and truth, the three
pillars of the Ulary statement from the heart, making Victoria
the first state in the country to achieve this. I'm
Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today. Co
(01:05):
chairs of the First People's Assembly Niagara, Murray and ruben Berg,
and what they hope Victoria's treaty will deliver and how.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Its success will be measured.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It's Friday, September twelve, and this is part one of
a two part episode Niagara. Ruben, thank you so much
for joining me to begin me, would you mind just
introducing yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, hello, Niagara Murray whereby one but you order jar
Jarmarol and Dieral woman and I like a co chair
of the First People's Assembly and.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I'm Ruben Burke Craft the Nicks Mara May and also
one of the co chairs of the First People's Ascending
of Victoria.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, welcome to seven am. Thank you so much for
coming on the show. The first Treaty with the first
peoples of this country has just become a reality. It's
been a long road to get here, so to beginning
to tell me how you're both feeling.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I'm feeling good. The historic day for all of
us with the introduction of the Statewide Treaty Bill in
the Parliament, there was a day of emotions and pride
and reflection.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Treaty will be a source of pride for all Victorians,
representative of a proudly diverse and multicultural state which values
its history and all of its people, because this is
not about taking anything away from anyone, It's about practical
changes to do things better together. I am proud to
(02:31):
support this next step in treaty. I am proud that
together we are improving people's lives and giving everyone a
better future.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
I commend the bill to the House.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
We're just really excited to be in this position in Victoria.
And it's been a lot of hard work over the
last six years in particular, but nearly a decade of
preparatory work. And yeah, we're in a really strong position
as we work towards the very first treaty of this country.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yes, as Nagara said, it's been a very long journey
to get us here, across six years of traveling around
the whole state, talking with all of our community in
every corner of the state, and now to get to
this point where it's about to become a reality. To
now then think forward to let's get the action done.
Let's start getting things done rather than having to talk
about treat now it can actually activate it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And obviously I want to talk more about what it
all means. But you both mentioned it's been a long
road to get here. Of the last decade so can
you just tell me about some of the kind of
key points in the negotiations between the Assembly and the
Victorian government.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
The first part of the negotiations when we started as
an Assembly was really to work out what treaty would
look like actually here in this state, because there's lots
of different models you can go down for treaty making,
and very early on we made I think a really
important decision an agreement with the state that we'd tackle
this as a hybrid model. So we're looking at both
state wide treaties, which is the first part of which
(04:05):
has gone into the legislation as part of the bill,
and then there's also traditional loan and treaties that are
happening in parallel. And so that was I think a
really key first part of this process to say we're
going to have both, and that drew from different models
across the globe, and then as we started talking more
about the first state White Treaty to say that what
we wanted to do is set things up for success
(04:25):
and for future conversations that if we're going to have
further negotiations and further conversations, we need to have a
really strong, democratically elected traduce loaner led body that can
intersect with government really powerful ways, so we can advocate
for better outcomes and then also progress future treaty making.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So tell me then I guess about the practicalities of that.
What is the purpose of the treating what does it
look like for us?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
The treaty will really be about the relationships and the
setting of those relationships between first people's and the state.
As Ruben said, there'll be many treat We've got the
hybrid approach of the state wide treaty covers all the
statewide matters and addresses our affairs within health and housing,
education and justice, sports. There will be a number of
(05:12):
treaties in the next iteration of the statewide treaty, and
then the trition owner treaties will relate to the business
of those trush owners on their country and their aspirations
within their own context. But this is the first modern
treaty in over twenty years, we've looked internationally to all
(05:33):
the different examples of treaty making in other countries with
indigenous peoples, and it is the first treaty. We can
only do so much in this one, and then we
will pass the button to the next iteration of the Assembly.
But it encapsulates all our aspirations, all our demands and
asks that we've been fighting for for a long time
and putting them into practice. And there's a lot of
(05:53):
tangible outcomes that will happen through the first State wide Treaty.
But that structural reform is really what we're seeking around
how we govern into the future when it comes to
aboriginal affairs.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And just tell me a bit more about that structural
or form, the new iteration of the First People's Assembly,
What does it look like.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, so this is the transformation of the Assembly as
it is now into this future body and it sits
within this space referred to as Gallilas and that's the
kind of overarching landscape of tree you making. So within
gallung Lah will still be the First People's Assembly of
Victoria as the democratically elected body, and that's the body
that we'll be able to talk directly to Parliament, to
address Parliament once a year, to meet with Cabinet, to
(06:32):
meet with ministers, to have relationships with departments about how
when government's developing policies that might affect first peoples, how
they intersect and engage with the expertise of First Peoples.
Also within that space of gallung Lis will be the
Nin mah Yenyawara, which is their accountability mechanism. And this
is something that's very clearly drawn from the work of
the Productivity Commission last year and they did a big
(06:54):
review onto closing the gap and what needed to be
changed to actually see some closing those gaps. And a
key thing they identified was there's not a First people's
led body that's actually monitoring the government to see how
are they performing and giving them recommendations about what to improve,
and so that's what we're creating through niingma Yanyawara. Another
component of the Gallinwall will be the ongoing truthcut through
(07:17):
Tolkuna and so that will ensure that the powerful work
that happened through the truth calling process here in Victoria
through Year Rook will be able to be continued. And
there's an ongoing role for place based truth celling and
to ensure that all Victorians can better understand the history
of First Peoples from a first people's perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And so, as you mentioned there, they didn't to go
and well is this access to government, So there's this
power to make representations to Cabinet, to ministers, to various departments,
to both houses of Parliament. So tell me how you
imagine that access being used, what's going to be advocated for?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah, so really at this stage it's about a process
and the types of things we want to advocate for.
Is that's the next conversation to talk with that community.
It's not just going to be whoever the coaches are
deciding that this is what they want to talk about.
There are really strong processes in the legislation and in
our own internal processes to make sure we're hearing directly
from all parts of the state about what's important and
feeding that in. And we do have the powerful work
(08:16):
of your book of four years of our people coming
and giving evidence to show what also needs to change.
So that'd be a really key roadmap of the type
of things we're going to be advocating for and the
future body can advocate for when we do have that
greater access to government.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And there is a provis so that nothing in the
agreement limits the authority of the Parliament to make laws
and conduct it's business. So do you feel like there
is enough of a guarantee that the government of the
day will listen.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Look, I've heard far too much about the concept of
parliamentary sovereignty in the last couple of years and never
really need to. But we're very mindful that parliament has
its role to do and that's rightfully so, given that
they're chosen by all the people of the state. So
we just want to make sure that when there is
a role for government to have decisions that impact first peoples,
that they're actually hearing from first peoples about that. We
(09:05):
want to make sure we have really strong relationships, as
Nagara said before, that's really key to these processes of
being able to sit down and look in the eye
of these politicians and say this is what our people need,
and this is what our people are saying, and this
is what our experts are saying, and hopefully that sees
the change, but if not, we can keep coming back
to the table and having those conversations and understand if
(09:25):
that's not the approach they think will work, what will
and how can we make that work even better.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And we've had a really strong relationship with the state
over six years now, you know, right across the political
sphere to ensure that we have that support and really
entrenched the work that we've done within this system to
be able to have strong foundations for a treaty and
strong relationships as we head into the future.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Coming up, how the success of this treaty will be
measured over the coming years, So Reuben and Agara, as
part of this treaty, primary and secondary school children will
learn more about Victoria's first people's There's going to be
(10:12):
a new curriculum developed choosing some of the findings of
the commission. So tell me a bit about what might
be taught and what you're hoping that that will achieve.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, Well, the work of Europe has been absolutely profound,
and the fact that we've now completed the inquiry and
we have those one hundred recommendations and truth telling in
education is really key to the future of this country
and how we will coexist together all Victorians within the state.
Understanding the real history, the true history.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I have learned much that I did not know in
terms of the true history of the dispossession, what the settlers,
the colonizers did when they came to Victoria. I did
not know of the massacres. I'm ashamed to say I
did not. I have learned about the size and scale
(11:03):
of the murders and the massacres through my preparation for
my appearance today, and.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I think of my own child, a nine year old
that's been on this treaty journey with us. She's a
bit of a treated kid. But how amazing would it
be for the schools within Victoria to understand the history
of this country and celebrate sixty thousand years of culture
and what that means to us as the first peoples
of this land, and for people to really understand the
(11:31):
history of this country because it is a shared history
that we all have as Victorians.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And I think on that as well. Sometimes there can
be seen to be just to focus on the more
traumatic sides about the history of first peoples, And obviously
it is important that all Victorians can better understand the
true impact of colonization. But it's also about celebrating black excellence. Still,
it's about every school kid in Victoria should understand the
significance of the aquaculture system down at Budja Bim, and
(11:57):
they should understand the significants of people like Barrow's grandfather
and great grandfather and all the work of First peoples
in progressing that comes across the old state. We want
to make sure we're celebrating Abageal history as well as
part of that process.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And the opposition, the Liberal l opposition in Victoria doesn't
support the treaty. It's still a voice to Parliament.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
The government are trying to put through a voice to
Parliament without taking it to the Victorian community.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Is that disappointing?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It's disappointing. Like we've worked really hard to build relationships
with the opposition this term and we've got open door policy,
so we'll continue that dialogue with the opposition. But yeah,
it's disappointing. We work hard on our relationships and I
think we'll just continue to do that. I think they've
kind of showed some of their true colors within the Parliament,
but I think for us, yeah, we'll just continue the
(12:45):
dialogue with the opposition.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Yeah, and to me, there's two really key components. One
is they've spoken about the importance of closing the gap,
and we recognize the importance of that too, and that's
why we've drawn so heavily from the work of the
Productivity Commission. If I was going to say who knows
best about what might need to change for closing the gap,
it's first Peoples and a Productivity Commission that has done
an in depth review and to what needs to change,
(13:08):
and so we're delivering on those things from the Closing
the Gap review and also just to note that this
has happened, there's going to be a tree error and
we need to make sure we can use that to
best benefit for all Victorians and to get better outcomes.
But it's something that's going to be there and we're
happy to work with all sides of government to make
that work as effectively and efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And this is the first Australian treaty. You mentioned that
international examples were looked at while this was being formulated.
Can you tell me a bit more about that and
the lessons that you've taken from elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, there's a lot of learnings and lessons. And we
speak really closely with our different indigenous brothers and sisters
across the globe and we've recently visited Altro with the
Mali to have some strong relations there to learn from
their treaties and the history of the Treaty of Waitangi.
We talk with the Mob in the States, like with
(14:01):
the Native American Mob and the British Columbian mob Sami.
We've looked at all the different examples and I think
from Ruben's perspective, we've got a poss and skin cloak
analogy where we've put together some of the best examples
and learnings of successful treaties and we've adapted that and
tailored that to our approach. And I think we're in
a really strong position, and we've got a lot of
(14:22):
support right across the globe. And I know that a
lot of Indigenous peoples and even our different countrymen and
women across the different jurisdictions of Australia are watching and
supporting us from afar. So it's pretty exciting to think
that we will have a treaty in a modern context
and the very first one of it's kind in Australia.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, and we'll often talk a lot about how Victoria
is leading the way in a national perspective, but we're
just catching up with the rest of the globe. Like
color countries have had these treaty processes in place for
a long long time now, so it's really important to
see this from that global perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And so how will you measure the success of this
treaty and say five or ten years time, how big
is the scale of the change that you hope that
this will make.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, I think that our community will be the measures
of success, and hopefully we see our communities continue to
thrive and see the ability to actually take control of
our own lives and actually thrive in our own communities
and have our culture be really strong. That's what we're
looking for, and we want to make sure that we
have all of our community anticipating and involved in these processes,
(15:28):
and that'll be, from our perspective, the true measure of success.
I think a key issue we've faced in a lot
of these spaces is that so often what success looks
like is dictated by external measures, where government are deciding
that these are the measures of success. And now we're
entering towards the process where we, as first peoples, will
be able to determine what we think success looks like
and measure that against our own ideas, which is really important.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Well, Nagara Rubin, thank you so much to be your time.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Thank you our pleasure.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
This is the first part of a two part episode.
In the next episode, I speak to writer and my
seven AM co host Daniel James about the politics of
the treaty and why other states and territories have abandoned
their own treaty processes.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
So the response from sections of the media was entirely predictable,
trying to conflate it with things like the referendum, which
is a completely different thing. This is it, this is
what's happening, and if people want to conflate that with
the referendum result for political purposes, then we'll wave to
them as we go over the hill and down the road.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's called the politics and pushback, and it's in your
feet now.
This nation. Leading bill and the treaty process as a
whole shows what we can achieve when we listen to
first peoples and work together for better outcomes.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
As Victorian Premier just sent to Allan introduced Australia's first
ever treaty to Parliament, she said it would pave the
way for a formal apology, the introduction of Aboriginal truth
telling into the school curriculum, and offer a better future
for Indigenous Australians in the state.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It honors and affirms special connection the First peoples have
to country, this place now known as Victoria, which we
all call home. It reckons with the wrongs of the
past and sets a new course, guided by truth, to
a better future.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
The treaty is the combination of almost a decade of
work establishing the First People's Assembly, who led the negotiations,
and it delivers on voice, treaty and truth, the three
pillars of the Ulary statement from the heart, making Victoria
the first state in the country to achieve this. I'm
Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM today. Co
(01:05):
chairs of the First People's Assembly Niagara, Murray and ruben Berg,
and what they hope Victoria's treaty will deliver and how.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Its success will be measured.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
It's Friday, September twelve, and this is part one of
a two part episode Niagara. Ruben, thank you so much
for joining me to begin me, would you mind just
introducing yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, hello, Niagara Murray whereby one but you order jar
Jarmarol and Dieral woman and I like a co chair
of the First People's Assembly and.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
I'm Ruben Burke Craft the Nicks Mara May and also
one of the co chairs of the First People's Ascending
of Victoria.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, welcome to seven am. Thank you so much for
coming on the show. The first Treaty with the first
peoples of this country has just become a reality. It's
been a long road to get here, so to beginning
to tell me how you're both feeling.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I'm feeling good. The historic day for all of
us with the introduction of the Statewide Treaty Bill in
the Parliament, there was a day of emotions and pride
and reflection.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Treaty will be a source of pride for all Victorians,
representative of a proudly diverse and multicultural state which values
its history and all of its people, because this is
not about taking anything away from anyone, It's about practical
changes to do things better together. I am proud to
(02:31):
support this next step in treaty. I am proud that
together we are improving people's lives and giving everyone a
better future.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
I commend the bill to the House.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
We're just really excited to be in this position in Victoria.
And it's been a lot of hard work over the
last six years in particular, but nearly a decade of
preparatory work. And yeah, we're in a really strong position
as we work towards the very first treaty of this country.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yes, as Nagara said, it's been a very long journey
to get us here, across six years of traveling around
the whole state, talking with all of our community in
every corner of the state, and now to get to
this point where it's about to become a reality. To
now then think forward to let's get the action done.
Let's start getting things done rather than having to talk
about treat now it can actually activate it.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
And obviously I want to talk more about what it
all means. But you both mentioned it's been a long
road to get here. Of the last decade so can
you just tell me about some of the kind of
key points in the negotiations between the Assembly and the
Victorian government.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
The first part of the negotiations when we started as
an Assembly was really to work out what treaty would
look like actually here in this state, because there's lots
of different models you can go down for treaty making,
and very early on we made I think a really
important decision an agreement with the state that we'd tackle
this as a hybrid model. So we're looking at both
state wide treaties, which is the first part of which
(04:05):
has gone into the legislation as part of the bill,
and then there's also traditional loan and treaties that are
happening in parallel. And so that was I think a
really key first part of this process to say we're
going to have both, and that drew from different models
across the globe, and then as we started talking more
about the first state White Treaty to say that what
we wanted to do is set things up for success
(04:25):
and for future conversations that if we're going to have
further negotiations and further conversations, we need to have a
really strong, democratically elected traduce loaner led body that can
intersect with government really powerful ways, so we can advocate
for better outcomes and then also progress future treaty making.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So tell me then I guess about the practicalities of that.
What is the purpose of the treating what does it
look like for us?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
The treaty will really be about the relationships and the
setting of those relationships between first people's and the state.
As Ruben said, there'll be many treat We've got the
hybrid approach of the state wide treaty covers all the
statewide matters and addresses our affairs within health and housing,
education and justice, sports. There will be a number of
(05:12):
treaties in the next iteration of the statewide treaty, and
then the trition owner treaties will relate to the business
of those trush owners on their country and their aspirations
within their own context. But this is the first modern
treaty in over twenty years, we've looked internationally to all
(05:33):
the different examples of treaty making in other countries with
indigenous peoples, and it is the first treaty. We can
only do so much in this one, and then we
will pass the button to the next iteration of the Assembly.
But it encapsulates all our aspirations, all our demands and
asks that we've been fighting for for a long time
and putting them into practice. And there's a lot of
(05:53):
tangible outcomes that will happen through the first State wide Treaty.
But that structural reform is really what we're seeking around
how we govern into the future when it comes to
aboriginal affairs.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
And just tell me a bit more about that structural
or form, the new iteration of the First People's Assembly,
What does it look like.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, so this is the transformation of the Assembly as
it is now into this future body and it sits
within this space referred to as Gallilas and that's the
kind of overarching landscape of tree you making. So within
gallung Lah will still be the First People's Assembly of
Victoria as the democratically elected body, and that's the body
that we'll be able to talk directly to Parliament, to
address Parliament once a year, to meet with Cabinet, to
(06:32):
meet with ministers, to have relationships with departments about how
when government's developing policies that might affect first peoples, how
they intersect and engage with the expertise of First Peoples.
Also within that space of gallung Lis will be the
Nin mah Yenyawara, which is their accountability mechanism. And this
is something that's very clearly drawn from the work of
the Productivity Commission last year and they did a big
(06:54):
review onto closing the gap and what needed to be
changed to actually see some closing those gaps. And a
key thing they identified was there's not a First people's
led body that's actually monitoring the government to see how
are they performing and giving them recommendations about what to improve,
and so that's what we're creating through niingma Yanyawara. Another
component of the Gallinwall will be the ongoing truthcut through
(07:17):
Tolkuna and so that will ensure that the powerful work
that happened through the truth calling process here in Victoria
through Year Rook will be able to be continued. And
there's an ongoing role for place based truth celling and
to ensure that all Victorians can better understand the history
of First Peoples from a first people's perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And so, as you mentioned there, they didn't to go
and well is this access to government, So there's this
power to make representations to Cabinet, to ministers, to various departments,
to both houses of Parliament. So tell me how you
imagine that access being used, what's going to be advocated for?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah, so really at this stage it's about a process
and the types of things we want to advocate for.
Is that's the next conversation to talk with that community.
It's not just going to be whoever the coaches are
deciding that this is what they want to talk about.
There are really strong processes in the legislation and in
our own internal processes to make sure we're hearing directly
from all parts of the state about what's important and
feeding that in. And we do have the powerful work
(08:16):
of your book of four years of our people coming
and giving evidence to show what also needs to change.
So that'd be a really key roadmap of the type
of things we're going to be advocating for and the
future body can advocate for when we do have that
greater access to government.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
And there is a provis so that nothing in the
agreement limits the authority of the Parliament to make laws
and conduct it's business. So do you feel like there
is enough of a guarantee that the government of the
day will listen.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Look, I've heard far too much about the concept of
parliamentary sovereignty in the last couple of years and never
really need to. But we're very mindful that parliament has
its role to do and that's rightfully so, given that
they're chosen by all the people of the state. So
we just want to make sure that when there is
a role for government to have decisions that impact first peoples,
that they're actually hearing from first peoples about that. We
(09:05):
want to make sure we have really strong relationships, as
Nagara said before, that's really key to these processes of
being able to sit down and look in the eye
of these politicians and say this is what our people need,
and this is what our people are saying, and this
is what our experts are saying, and hopefully that sees
the change, but if not, we can keep coming back
to the table and having those conversations and understand if
(09:25):
that's not the approach they think will work, what will
and how can we make that work even better.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
And we've had a really strong relationship with the state
over six years now, you know, right across the political
sphere to ensure that we have that support and really
entrenched the work that we've done within this system to
be able to have strong foundations for a treaty and
strong relationships as we head into the future.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Coming up, how the success of this treaty will be
measured over the coming years, So Reuben and Agara, as
part of this treaty, primary and secondary school children will
learn more about Victoria's first people's There's going to be
(10:12):
a new curriculum developed choosing some of the findings of
the commission. So tell me a bit about what might
be taught and what you're hoping that that will achieve.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah, Well, the work of Europe has been absolutely profound,
and the fact that we've now completed the inquiry and
we have those one hundred recommendations and truth telling in
education is really key to the future of this country
and how we will coexist together all Victorians within the state.
Understanding the real history, the true history.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I have learned much that I did not know in
terms of the true history of the dispossession, what the settlers,
the colonizers did when they came to Victoria. I did
not know of the massacres. I'm ashamed to say I
did not. I have learned about the size and scale
(11:03):
of the murders and the massacres through my preparation for
my appearance today, and.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I think of my own child, a nine year old
that's been on this treaty journey with us. She's a
bit of a treated kid. But how amazing would it
be for the schools within Victoria to understand the history
of this country and celebrate sixty thousand years of culture
and what that means to us as the first peoples
of this land, and for people to really understand the
(11:31):
history of this country because it is a shared history
that we all have as Victorians.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And I think on that as well. Sometimes there can
be seen to be just to focus on the more
traumatic sides about the history of first peoples, And obviously
it is important that all Victorians can better understand the
true impact of colonization. But it's also about celebrating black excellence. Still,
it's about every school kid in Victoria should understand the
significance of the aquaculture system down at Budja Bim, and
(11:57):
they should understand the significants of people like Barrow's grandfather
and great grandfather and all the work of First peoples
in progressing that comes across the old state. We want
to make sure we're celebrating Abageal history as well as
part of that process.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And the opposition, the Liberal l opposition in Victoria doesn't
support the treaty. It's still a voice to Parliament.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
The government are trying to put through a voice to
Parliament without taking it to the Victorian community.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Is that disappointing?
Speaker 3 (12:24):
It's disappointing. Like we've worked really hard to build relationships
with the opposition this term and we've got open door policy,
so we'll continue that dialogue with the opposition. But yeah,
it's disappointing. We work hard on our relationships and I
think we'll just continue to do that. I think they've
kind of showed some of their true colors within the Parliament,
but I think for us, yeah, we'll just continue the
(12:45):
dialogue with the opposition.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Yeah, and to me, there's two really key components. One
is they've spoken about the importance of closing the gap,
and we recognize the importance of that too, and that's
why we've drawn so heavily from the work of the
Productivity Commission. If I was going to say who knows
best about what might need to change for closing the gap,
it's first Peoples and a Productivity Commission that has done
an in depth review and to what needs to change,
(13:08):
and so we're delivering on those things from the Closing
the Gap review and also just to note that this
has happened, there's going to be a tree error and
we need to make sure we can use that to
best benefit for all Victorians and to get better outcomes.
But it's something that's going to be there and we're
happy to work with all sides of government to make
that work as effectively and efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And this is the first Australian treaty. You mentioned that
international examples were looked at while this was being formulated.
Can you tell me a bit more about that and
the lessons that you've taken from elsewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, there's a lot of learnings and lessons. And we
speak really closely with our different indigenous brothers and sisters
across the globe and we've recently visited Altro with the
Mali to have some strong relations there to learn from
their treaties and the history of the Treaty of Waitangi.
We talk with the Mob in the States, like with
(14:01):
the Native American Mob and the British Columbian mob Sami.
We've looked at all the different examples and I think
from Ruben's perspective, we've got a poss and skin cloak
analogy where we've put together some of the best examples
and learnings of successful treaties and we've adapted that and
tailored that to our approach. And I think we're in
a really strong position, and we've got a lot of
(14:22):
support right across the globe. And I know that a
lot of Indigenous peoples and even our different countrymen and
women across the different jurisdictions of Australia are watching and
supporting us from afar. So it's pretty exciting to think
that we will have a treaty in a modern context
and the very first one of it's kind in Australia.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Yeah, and we'll often talk a lot about how Victoria
is leading the way in a national perspective, but we're
just catching up with the rest of the globe. Like
color countries have had these treaty processes in place for
a long long time now, so it's really important to
see this from that global perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
And so how will you measure the success of this
treaty and say five or ten years time, how big
is the scale of the change that you hope that
this will make.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Yeah, I think that our community will be the measures
of success, and hopefully we see our communities continue to
thrive and see the ability to actually take control of
our own lives and actually thrive in our own communities
and have our culture be really strong. That's what we're
looking for, and we want to make sure that we
have all of our community anticipating and involved in these processes,
(15:28):
and that'll be, from our perspective, the true measure of success.
I think a key issue we've faced in a lot
of these spaces is that so often what success looks
like is dictated by external measures, where government are deciding
that these are the measures of success. And now we're
entering towards the process where we, as first peoples, will
be able to determine what we think success looks like
and measure that against our own ideas, which is really important.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Well, Nagara Rubin, thank you so much to be your time.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Thank you our pleasure.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
This is the first part of a two part episode.
In the next episode, I speak to writer and my
seven AM co host Daniel James about the politics of
the treaty and why other states and territories have abandoned
their own treaty processes.
Speaker 6 (16:21):
So the response from sections of the media was entirely predictable,
trying to conflate it with things like the referendum, which
is a completely different thing. This is it, this is
what's happening, and if people want to conflate that with
the referendum result for political purposes, then we'll wave to
them as we go over the hill and down the road.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's called the politics and pushback, and it's in your
feet now.
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