November 14, 2025 • 14 mins
This week, the Liberal party officially scrapped net zero – a move widely expected, but out of line with public opinion and science.
It also raised questions about Sussan Ley’s handling of the policy debate, and ultimately about her leadership.
As the right faction of the Liberal party celebrates its victory, speculation continues about when Sussan Ley will keep her job. There’s also the question of how the Liberal party can ever hope to win an election when key electorates and voting blocs have made it clear they want action on climate change.
Today, press gallery journalist Karen Middleton on the Liberal party, the climate – and the killing season to come.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: Press gallery journalist Karen Middleton
Photo: AAP Image/Lukas Coch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Susan Lee cut a lonely figure on Wednesday when she
walked into the Liberal party room meeting with just one
colleague by her side.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I was interested watching those images of the Liberals filing
into that party room meeting.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
The Opposition were there to thrash out their position on
net zero once and for all. And like everyone in
the Canbra press pack, Karen Middleton was watching and what
she noticed was a sign of what was to come.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That big group of Conservatives who walked in together, they
were sending a message that was not a message of
support for Susan Lee. Because if you were a group
of people who wanted her to succeed, wanted to back
her in, you wouldn't be doing what they did. All right, Well,
good afternoon, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
By the next day, the opposition leader frantic cameras to
announce what was widely expected.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Liberal Party will remove a net zero target from
our policy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's a shift that will define Susan Lee's leadership. Raises
deeper questions about who controls the coalition and how they'll
ever win again.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because we know now that gen z and millennials are
the biggest group of voters in the Australian voting populace.
Now they are looking at climate change with alarm and
there's a growing body of research says that they expect
there's a credible policy on climate action.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM Today.
Press Gallery journalist Karen Middleton on the Liberal Party, the climate,
the killing season, the cup. It's Saturday, November fifteen. Karen,
(01:51):
this decision to scrap net zero was at a step
with public opinion and with science. So how is the
Liberal Party justifying it?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Well, I think we need to be clear this is
a political calculation that they're making. It's at least as
much about the politics as it is about the substance
of the policy. And certainly for Susan Lee, in the
context of her leadership, trying to stitch together to diametrically
opposed effectively sides of her party on this issue, in
particular the conservatives that hate the phrase net zero and
(02:22):
don't want really any rapid pace of reduction of fossil fuels,
and the moderates who accept that climate change is real
and they want the transition to renewable energy to happen
at speed. She has taken a political decision to try
and pull these two sides together with a kind of
hybrid of all positions.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Australians deserve affordable energy and responsible emissions reduction, and the
Liberal Party believes we can do both, but affordable energy
must come first.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I think one of the difficulties in selling this policy
to those disparate audiences is that they've got the statement
that they no longer support net zero greenhouse gas emissions
by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And if elected, we will remove the forty three percent
twenty thirty target and it's net zero by twenty fifty
target from the Climate Change Act. They want to sort
of not be actively discouraging of achieving net zero emissions,
but they don't want to have a deadline and they
don't want to be bound to particular ways to get there.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So seasonally, you did say she still wants to reduce submissions.
What's their plan for how they'll actually go about doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So they've put out a five page statement on all
the ways that they might be able to get better,
But they're leaning quite heavily on this idea of new technologies.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
We've talked about supporting breakthrough technologies and repurposing funds to
do exactly that. That's what austrai as would expect of us.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
They've still got nuclear in the mix. They're talking about
something they've talked about for a long time, which is
carbon capturing storage, which is trying to capture gases and
force them underground. And they're really hoping that technology will
develop so they don't have to take heavily interventionary steps
in the fossil fuel industry. But they are still wanting
(04:17):
to stay in the Paris Agreement, and the Paris Agreement
specifically says it doesn't use the phrase net zero, but
it specifically says Article four of that agreement says that
the objective is to get to a neutral position with
emissions by the end of the century.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
We remain committed to the Paris Agreement and to doing
our fair share to reduce emissions, but we will do
it in a way that protects households and budgets and
keeps our economy strong.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So there is a slight contradiction in there. They don't
want to scale things back at the same pace that
the Labor government is doing it. They think that that's
been problematic. They want it to happen gradually, but not
having the Dea line means there is no incentive to
scale that back at pace.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So with walking away from that zero, what seats do
they think they could target with that decision.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, the seats they have lost are the city seats.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
The only one who regained a seat from the so
called Teals in those city previously baboo ribbon Liberal seats
was Tim Wilson in Melbourne in the seat of Goldstein. Otherwise,
those Teal seats that they lost in twenty twenty two
stayed lost at this last election. So there's still a
debate within the Liberal Party more widely as to whether
(05:38):
they want to target those seats to win them back
or whether they need to accept those city seats are lost.
Traditional Liberals are saying, well, we can't just let those
seats go. These are our heartland seats. How can we
hope to be back in government if we don't win
them back. So that debate rolls on inside the party.
But they are now hoping they've got a policy that
(05:59):
can peel across the board, that they've done enough. You know,
it's a tricky task politically speaking, and where are the
seats well that will be something that Liberal Party strategists
are going to have to work out over the next
couple of.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Years coming up. Well, Susan Lee's leadership survived the killing season.
There's no doubt that this is a major win for
the right of the party who are fought for scrapping
(06:34):
it zero. So is there a chance Karen that climate
is the first issue we see Susan Lee rolled on.
Could there be other issues like immigration for instance.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, I think the big thing is will she last
long enough for there to be other issues she gets
rolled on, because I think the real fundamental thing to
watch now is whether she survives this debate. She's now
pulled this policy together and she has to go out
and sell it, and whether that is seen as credible
(07:04):
or not will determine whether, I think whether she stays
in the leadership. And you are seeing conservatives coming out
and almost gloating, you know, almost boasting, taking credit Garth
Hamilton and Queensland Conservative. He was on Sky News of
the night that they made this decision. This policy was
forced through by the backbench. It's been backbenches like myself,
(07:27):
Tony Pass and Henry Pike have done all the heavy
lifting on this and force this through, and he pointedly
would not say that she will definitively lead them to
the next election.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Do you think Susan will be leader this time next year?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, I'm not going to go in it for you today, Shari.
I'm sorry. I think we've got a huge.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Confidence in her leadership.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To say that you think she'll be still be a
leader in a year's time, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Not going to suggest anyone on that one for you, Shari,
I'm going to focus on today's great It was not
a resounding endorsement of her leadership, and that says that
this is the pivotal issue, that those conservatives are looking
at this as a pivotal issue, and that sort of
phalanx of conservatives around Angus Taylor and Andrew Hasty, that
suggests you're looking at a potential future leadership ticket from
(08:14):
the conservative side. And the question really is how long
do they give her before they move? And the sort
of attitude we're seeing would suggest that they think they
can take their time, let her struggle, and then move
when they're not going to be seen as tearing down
the first female leader Carol.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
What has Susan Lee's handling of this shown about what
type of leader she is.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, I think one of the problems Susan Lee has
is that she was reticent to put a position at all.
So we've seen her step back and let this debate
play out in public, involving her own party and not
a certain position, and I'm not sure that that's the
most effective way to lead in a circumstance like this.
There is no perfect way, and she's in a diabolically
(09:01):
difficult position. She's taken on the leadership of the Liberal
Party in very difficult circumstances after a terrible loss. She
always talks about being smashed, and she's right.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
We didn't just lose, we got smashed, totally smashed.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Nobody else wanted the leadership at this time, so points
to her for having the courage to step forward and
do that. But having not articulated a policy makes it
even harder because you sort of vacate the space, and
so her colleagues have then effectively been giving her advice
in public, sort of over her head, and she has
not engaged in the debate. It was interesting these events
(09:42):
this week coincided with the fiftieth anniversary of the dismissal
of the Whitlam government and just down the hill at
Old Parliament House we saw a day of seminars and
discussion about that, and one of the people talking there
was John Howard, the former Prime Minister, second longest serving
Liberal prime minister. He was talking about those days leading
up to the dismissal fifty years ago and the fact
(10:05):
that Malcolm Fraser had this hardline position to try and
block supply in the Senate, and there have been suggestions
since that some of those Liberal senators were really starting
to go a big wobbly and that they may not
have held out much longer had the Governor General not
stepped in.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
He wanted to tough it out there, said he wasn't
about to back well, no, but there's a lot of
evidence that some senators were about to crack.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It was what he did say was very interesting in
the context of what was going on up the hill
because he then went on to talk about sort of leadership. Generally,
he didn't use the word leadership, but he talked about
the fact that Malcolm Fraser held the show together.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I didn't think that people were going to crack, but
I do give Fraser enormous credit for holding the show together,
and he spent a lot of time with people who
had doubts.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And he said, what you need to do as a
good leader is you talk to your backbench. He said,
Fraser kept in touch with his backbench. He constantly took
the temperature of the backbench. He reassured them about the strategy,
He kept them involved.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
The relationship you have with the members of your parliamentary party,
your backbench is the most important of all and you
have to invest an enormous amount of time in it.
You can't delegate it to anybody, even as senior colleague.
(11:29):
You've got to do it yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And that you need to do that as a leader.
And the implication was also you've got to take a position.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So as things stand at the moment, Karen, the opposition
of kind of like been out of action while they've
been undertaking all these sort of internal reflections over that
zero meaning that there really isn't any sort of challenge
to the government and the alban easy. So what do
we lose when the opposition is in the state the
coalition currently is in.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I think it's not good. It's not good for government,
you know. I say that good government requires a good opposition.
Whatever the stripe, the greatest risk of a government losing
its way is when there is no substantive opposition. And
the one thing that I think a lot of the
people in the coalition are hoping that does unite them
(12:17):
at the moment, is it that having at least reached
a position on this climate and energy policy, now they
can pull together and they have something to say, and
they have a clear differentiation with the Labor government, and
they will try to push back on the way the
Labor government is managing the energy transition. And I think
whether they can hold that unity and whether they pull
(12:38):
in behind Susan Lee's leadership or whether there are still
those and I think there are in the Liberal Party
in particular who actually don't want to stick with her
and would find a way to replace her, remains to
be seen. That may be resolved before the end of
the year. We do have one more sitting week. We
love to call that the killing season, when parties like
to replace their leaders at the end.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Of the charm isn't it charming?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Little term that one, I know it's brutal. Or maybe
we go into next year and maybe Susan Lee triumphs
is so successful at prosecuting her arguments on this that
she secures her leadership. It's an unknown at the moment,
but I do think democracy is a poorer when we don't
have a properly functioning opposition, and that is a very
important thing as we go into what will be the
(13:23):
second year of the second term of the Albanezy government.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, Karen, it turns out that the coalition are into
Hybrid's hybrid policies. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Thanks Daniel, Thanks having me.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's
made by Aniicus Basto, Chris Danegate, Daniel James, Ruby Jones,
Sarah mcveee, Travis Evans and saltinfect Joy. Our theme music
is by Ned Beckley and Josh Horgan of Envalope Pordio.
This has been seven Am. Thanks for listening.
Susan Lee cut a lonely figure on Wednesday when she
walked into the Liberal party room meeting with just one
colleague by her side.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I was interested watching those images of the Liberals filing
into that party room meeting.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
The Opposition were there to thrash out their position on
net zero once and for all. And like everyone in
the Canbra press pack, Karen Middleton was watching and what
she noticed was a sign of what was to come.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That big group of Conservatives who walked in together, they
were sending a message that was not a message of
support for Susan Lee. Because if you were a group
of people who wanted her to succeed, wanted to back
her in, you wouldn't be doing what they did. All right, Well,
good afternoon, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
By the next day, the opposition leader frantic cameras to
announce what was widely expected.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
The Liberal Party will remove a net zero target from
our policy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
It's a shift that will define Susan Lee's leadership. Raises
deeper questions about who controls the coalition and how they'll
ever win again.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because we know now that gen z and millennials are
the biggest group of voters in the Australian voting populace.
Now they are looking at climate change with alarm and
there's a growing body of research says that they expect
there's a credible policy on climate action.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM Today.
Press Gallery journalist Karen Middleton on the Liberal Party, the climate,
the killing season, the cup. It's Saturday, November fifteen. Karen,
(01:51):
this decision to scrap net zero was at a step
with public opinion and with science. So how is the
Liberal Party justifying it?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Well, I think we need to be clear this is
a political calculation that they're making. It's at least as
much about the politics as it is about the substance
of the policy. And certainly for Susan Lee, in the
context of her leadership, trying to stitch together to diametrically
opposed effectively sides of her party on this issue, in
particular the conservatives that hate the phrase net zero and
(02:22):
don't want really any rapid pace of reduction of fossil fuels,
and the moderates who accept that climate change is real
and they want the transition to renewable energy to happen
at speed. She has taken a political decision to try
and pull these two sides together with a kind of
hybrid of all positions.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Australians deserve affordable energy and responsible emissions reduction, and the
Liberal Party believes we can do both, but affordable energy
must come first.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I think one of the difficulties in selling this policy
to those disparate audiences is that they've got the statement
that they no longer support net zero greenhouse gas emissions
by twenty fifty.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
And if elected, we will remove the forty three percent
twenty thirty target and it's net zero by twenty fifty
target from the Climate Change Act. They want to sort
of not be actively discouraging of achieving net zero emissions,
but they don't want to have a deadline and they
don't want to be bound to particular ways to get there.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So seasonally, you did say she still wants to reduce submissions.
What's their plan for how they'll actually go about doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So they've put out a five page statement on all
the ways that they might be able to get better,
But they're leaning quite heavily on this idea of new technologies.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
We've talked about supporting breakthrough technologies and repurposing funds to
do exactly that. That's what austrai as would expect of us.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
They've still got nuclear in the mix. They're talking about
something they've talked about for a long time, which is
carbon capturing storage, which is trying to capture gases and
force them underground. And they're really hoping that technology will
develop so they don't have to take heavily interventionary steps
in the fossil fuel industry. But they are still wanting
(04:17):
to stay in the Paris Agreement, and the Paris Agreement
specifically says it doesn't use the phrase net zero, but
it specifically says Article four of that agreement says that
the objective is to get to a neutral position with
emissions by the end of the century.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
We remain committed to the Paris Agreement and to doing
our fair share to reduce emissions, but we will do
it in a way that protects households and budgets and
keeps our economy strong.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So there is a slight contradiction in there. They don't
want to scale things back at the same pace that
the Labor government is doing it. They think that that's
been problematic. They want it to happen gradually, but not
having the Dea line means there is no incentive to
scale that back at pace.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So with walking away from that zero, what seats do
they think they could target with that decision.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, the seats they have lost are the city seats.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
The only one who regained a seat from the so
called Teals in those city previously baboo ribbon Liberal seats
was Tim Wilson in Melbourne in the seat of Goldstein. Otherwise,
those Teal seats that they lost in twenty twenty two
stayed lost at this last election. So there's still a
debate within the Liberal Party more widely as to whether
(05:38):
they want to target those seats to win them back
or whether they need to accept those city seats are lost.
Traditional Liberals are saying, well, we can't just let those
seats go. These are our heartland seats. How can we
hope to be back in government if we don't win
them back. So that debate rolls on inside the party.
But they are now hoping they've got a policy that
(05:59):
can peel across the board, that they've done enough. You know,
it's a tricky task politically speaking, and where are the
seats well that will be something that Liberal Party strategists
are going to have to work out over the next
couple of.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Years coming up. Well, Susan Lee's leadership survived the killing season.
There's no doubt that this is a major win for
the right of the party who are fought for scrapping
(06:34):
it zero. So is there a chance Karen that climate
is the first issue we see Susan Lee rolled on.
Could there be other issues like immigration for instance.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, I think the big thing is will she last
long enough for there to be other issues she gets
rolled on, because I think the real fundamental thing to
watch now is whether she survives this debate. She's now
pulled this policy together and she has to go out
and sell it, and whether that is seen as credible
(07:04):
or not will determine whether, I think whether she stays
in the leadership. And you are seeing conservatives coming out
and almost gloating, you know, almost boasting, taking credit Garth
Hamilton and Queensland Conservative. He was on Sky News of
the night that they made this decision. This policy was
forced through by the backbench. It's been backbenches like myself,
(07:27):
Tony Pass and Henry Pike have done all the heavy
lifting on this and force this through, and he pointedly
would not say that she will definitively lead them to
the next election.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Do you think Susan will be leader this time next year?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, I'm not going to go in it for you today, Shari.
I'm sorry. I think we've got a huge.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Confidence in her leadership.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
To say that you think she'll be still be a
leader in a year's time, I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Not going to suggest anyone on that one for you, Shari,
I'm going to focus on today's great It was not
a resounding endorsement of her leadership, and that says that
this is the pivotal issue, that those conservatives are looking
at this as a pivotal issue, and that sort of
phalanx of conservatives around Angus Taylor and Andrew Hasty, that
suggests you're looking at a potential future leadership ticket from
(08:14):
the conservative side. And the question really is how long
do they give her before they move? And the sort
of attitude we're seeing would suggest that they think they
can take their time, let her struggle, and then move
when they're not going to be seen as tearing down
the first female leader Carol.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
What has Susan Lee's handling of this shown about what
type of leader she is.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Well, I think one of the problems Susan Lee has
is that she was reticent to put a position at all.
So we've seen her step back and let this debate
play out in public, involving her own party and not
a certain position, and I'm not sure that that's the
most effective way to lead in a circumstance like this.
There is no perfect way, and she's in a diabolically
(09:01):
difficult position. She's taken on the leadership of the Liberal
Party in very difficult circumstances after a terrible loss. She
always talks about being smashed, and she's right.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
We didn't just lose, we got smashed, totally smashed.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Nobody else wanted the leadership at this time, so points
to her for having the courage to step forward and
do that. But having not articulated a policy makes it
even harder because you sort of vacate the space, and
so her colleagues have then effectively been giving her advice
in public, sort of over her head, and she has
not engaged in the debate. It was interesting these events
(09:42):
this week coincided with the fiftieth anniversary of the dismissal
of the Whitlam government and just down the hill at
Old Parliament House we saw a day of seminars and
discussion about that, and one of the people talking there
was John Howard, the former Prime Minister, second longest serving
Liberal prime minister. He was talking about those days leading
up to the dismissal fifty years ago and the fact
(10:05):
that Malcolm Fraser had this hardline position to try and
block supply in the Senate, and there have been suggestions
since that some of those Liberal senators were really starting
to go a big wobbly and that they may not
have held out much longer had the Governor General not
stepped in.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
He wanted to tough it out there, said he wasn't
about to back well, no, but there's a lot of
evidence that some senators were about to crack.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It was what he did say was very interesting in
the context of what was going on up the hill
because he then went on to talk about sort of leadership. Generally,
he didn't use the word leadership, but he talked about
the fact that Malcolm Fraser held the show together.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
I didn't think that people were going to crack, but
I do give Fraser enormous credit for holding the show together,
and he spent a lot of time with people who
had doubts.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
And he said, what you need to do as a
good leader is you talk to your backbench. He said,
Fraser kept in touch with his backbench. He constantly took
the temperature of the backbench. He reassured them about the strategy,
He kept them involved.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
The relationship you have with the members of your parliamentary party,
your backbench is the most important of all and you
have to invest an enormous amount of time in it.
You can't delegate it to anybody, even as senior colleague.
(11:29):
You've got to do it yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
And that you need to do that as a leader.
And the implication was also you've got to take a position.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So as things stand at the moment, Karen, the opposition
of kind of like been out of action while they've
been undertaking all these sort of internal reflections over that
zero meaning that there really isn't any sort of challenge
to the government and the alban easy. So what do
we lose when the opposition is in the state the
coalition currently is in.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I think it's not good. It's not good for government,
you know. I say that good government requires a good opposition.
Whatever the stripe, the greatest risk of a government losing
its way is when there is no substantive opposition. And
the one thing that I think a lot of the
people in the coalition are hoping that does unite them
(12:17):
at the moment, is it that having at least reached
a position on this climate and energy policy, now they
can pull together and they have something to say, and
they have a clear differentiation with the Labor government, and
they will try to push back on the way the
Labor government is managing the energy transition. And I think
whether they can hold that unity and whether they pull
(12:38):
in behind Susan Lee's leadership or whether there are still
those and I think there are in the Liberal Party
in particular who actually don't want to stick with her
and would find a way to replace her, remains to
be seen. That may be resolved before the end of
the year. We do have one more sitting week. We
love to call that the killing season, when parties like
to replace their leaders at the end.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Of the charm isn't it charming?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Little term that one, I know it's brutal. Or maybe
we go into next year and maybe Susan Lee triumphs
is so successful at prosecuting her arguments on this that
she secures her leadership. It's an unknown at the moment,
but I do think democracy is a poorer when we don't
have a properly functioning opposition, and that is a very
important thing as we go into what will be the
(13:23):
second year of the second term of the Albanezy government.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Well, Karen, it turns out that the coalition are into
Hybrid's hybrid policies. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Thanks Daniel, Thanks having me.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Seven Am is a daily show from Solstice Media. It's
made by Aniicus Basto, Chris Danegate, Daniel James, Ruby Jones,
Sarah mcveee, Travis Evans and saltinfect Joy. Our theme music
is by Ned Beckley and Josh Horgan of Envalope Pordio.
This has been seven Am. Thanks for listening.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.