May 27, 2025 • 16 mins
Until late last year, the United States had a US$10 million bounty on Syrian President Ahmed al-Sharaa.
A former leader of the al-Nusra Front and al-Qaeda in Iraq, al-Sharaa was once an enemy of America.
Now Syria’s transitional leader, al-Sharaa has just met US President Donald Trump, who called him “an attractive young guy” with “a strong past” and pledged to lift sanctions on Damascus.
Today, Damascus-based correspondent, Heidi Pett, on meeting al-Sharaa in person, how he won an audience with Trump and what it means for Syria’s future.
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Guest: Damascus-based correspondent, Heidi Pett.
Photo: PA/Alamy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At the start of the year, Hardy pet met with
newly declared Syrian president almed alsra.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I met him the day after he had declared himself
interim president, and so you know, he's taken up residents
in the presidential palace. So they sent these two armored
cars to come and pick us up and take us
through Damascus and and up into the presidential Palace.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's all of the choreography of meeting any world leader.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
You know, they take your phones in, your electronics and
security screening, all that kind of stuff. But it was
sort of striking right because the Presidential Palace here in
Damascus is enormous, you know, it's bigger than the White House.
But it was completely empty.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
The palace was empty because almed Alchurra and his men
had rolled into Damascus and taken over suddenly.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Verified footage shows a Syrian rebel tanks in one of
Damascus's central squares.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Today it is a coalition of rebel groups that are
in charge in Damascus the law.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Just a few months before announcing himself president, al had
a ten million dollar bounty out for his arrest. Once
the leader of the Alnusra Front and a member of
al Qaeda in Iraq, he was an enemy of the
United States in person.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I found it quite interesting, actually, because you would expect
a man who has the background that he has, you know,
as a fighter, as a man who has engaged in
direct conflict with groups like ISIS and has managed to survive,
you know, all of these shifting alliances there, to have
a sort of more physically imposing presence than I felt
that he did. I found him quite almost awkward. You know,
(01:31):
he sat there during an interview with his hands on
both of his knees, almost like he was having his
school portrait taken. All of a sudden, he's in the
presidential palace and he's expected to run a country.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it's a big job.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
A mantle that I don't feel that he is always
wearing particularly comfortably.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Recently, Al Shara had another meeting with Donald Trump. Trump
praised him and announced hit lift sanctions in Syria. From
Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven am today,
Damascus Space, corresponded Hardi pet on how El Sharra pulled
that off and what it means for the future of
(02:07):
his country. It's Wednesday, May eight, Heidi. When Donald Trump
met with Almid al Shara earlier this month. He called
him a young attractive guy, a tough guy with a
strong past.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Right, I think very good, young attractive guy, tough guy,
you know, strong pass stroke pass made him.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What did you make of that description?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean I thought that quote was really funny. Right,
It's a strong past. It's quite an interesting way for
the US president to describe Sharah. You know, this, this
is a guy who the US had a ten million
dollar bounty on Charra's head until very very recently. And
I think that just goes to show this incredible journey
that Sharah has gone on. You know, he was a
real amount of mystery for a lot time, not much
(03:01):
was known about him.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
He was born in Saudi Arabia in nineteen eighty two,
after his family was forced to leave the Golan Heights.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
What we do now now is, you know, he grew
up in a.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Middle class suburb, in a middle class family in Damascus.
His father was an economist, but he gradually started spending
a lot more time in the mosque.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
By around two thousand, he started to become radicalized. When
asked how he felt aboutline and.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know, and with some preachers who encouraged some of.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The people at that mosque to board these sort of
famous buses that left Damascus for young young men to
go and fight in Iraq after the American invasion, and
Shira got on one of those.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yet Syria, joining al Qaeder in Iraq, which led to
his subsequent arrest and.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, he ended up detained in Iraq for some time.
He was actually able to pose as a local in Iraq.
You know, he's noted for being able to speak Arabic
with an Iraqi accent, which meant that he wasn't treated
as harshly. You know, if he had been known that
he was a foreign fighter in Iraq, he would.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Have had much out of time of it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think this indicates how much of a kind of
you know, his ability to shape shift and to adapt,
you know, and then going on to navigate these shifting
alliances and this conflict between you know, al Qaeda al Nustra,
which he was the leader of, he has managed to
really rise to the top and sort of pick off
opponents along the way. And there's been this sort of
questioning about him about whether, you know, whether the jihadi
(04:26):
can become a politician.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
But certainly.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You know, my sense of him in that meeting and
just in general is actually, you know, I think this
man has been a politician all along. You know, his
ability to make and break alliances when it suits him
is quite notable.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, So when you meet him, he'd just taken over
as president of Syria. So what did he say at
the time about his vision for the country's future.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, it was interesting, right, because there was at that
time a lot of apprehension about what kind of rule
we would see, whether there would be anything, you know,
re mbling democracy, and he did commit to that, but
it was quite tempered. He said, in our region, there
are various definitions of democracy.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
But he you know, he really emphasized the need for time.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You know that there will not be elections for several years.
The country needs to be stabilized first. But you know,
since that meeting, things have become a little more clear.
So a draft constitution was issued in March, and that's
committed the country to this five year transitional period during
which he will be the leader. And you know a
lot of measures were maintained from the old constitution, so
(05:32):
Islamic law will be the main source of law.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
There's new things in there, you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Know, guaranteeing freedom of opinion, expression, the press, rights for
minorities and women, which all, you know, all sounds really good.
But the thing that is notable is this quite serious
concentration of power in the hands of the president. And
so there is a great deal of concern about that
from civil society here and from some international actors, you know,
about this concentration of power and whether whether having exercised
(05:59):
that power for five years, there will really be a
democratic transition at the end of it.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Now he's managed to secure a lifting of sanctions for Syria,
with Trump saying the country has a chance at greatness.
You've been living in Damascus since the fall of Assad.
How to describe the quality of life there for ordinary Syrians?
And how do you think the announcement that sanctions will
be lifted will change that?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, I mean, the economic situation for most Syrians is incredibly,
incredibly dire. Ninety percent of people here are living under
the poverty line. People can't afford fuel, people can barely
afford food. Medicine is incredibly expensive, and so you know,
for a very long time now, it's been incredibly difficult
to import anything into Syria, you know, including medicine, including
(06:47):
medical equipment, you know, And it's impacted the ability for
any kind of international organization to deliver humanitarian assistance, you know,
smaller organizations that might take donations, you can't really legally
send money to Syria.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
At the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And so the impact of these sanctions on daily life
for people here in.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Syria is really really serious.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And it's not just the kind of direct impact of
these US sanctions either. When the regime fell and there
was this need for funding and support to begin rebuilding
this country. Countries like Cutter, they announced a very serious
aid package, but that package of assistance was really delayed
because the Cuttery government was worried that even sending that
(07:29):
money to Syria would mean that their own country fell
foul of these US sanctions.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So the kind of butterfly effect of the US lifting.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
These sanctions will be will be huge. Speaking to people
in Damascus in the last couple of days, there is
a renewed sense of hope.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Nobody expected this would happen so quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
After the break. Can Ahmad Altrarad hold together a government
and country filled with unresis tensions? Heidi, the United States
has a list of demands that Syria needs to adhere
to in order for sanctions to be lifted, things like
signing the Abraham Accords, to normalize relationships with Israel, deporting
(08:16):
quote Palestinian terrorists, helping the US prevent the resurgence of vices,
and protecting religious minorities. In March, nearly nine hundred Ala
white civilians were killed in Syria. You went to these
communities where these massacres took place, Can you tell me
what happened?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah. The Alowites are They're one of the largest minority
religious groups in Syria.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
It's an offshoot of Shia Islam.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
And the Assad family were Alowites, and during the rule
of the Father and the Son, they sort of exploited
and deepened these sectarian tensions within Syria. They promoted members
of the Alowites sect to senior positions in the government
and the military, so it bred a great deal of resentment.
But they also deliberately kept the coastal regions, which is
(09:03):
where you know many Allo Whites in Syria are from.
They deliberately kept this region very poor and very underdeveloped,
so that it meant that they were actually very reliant
on government jobs or military jobs, because it was the
only kind of viable career path for many.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
People in these regions.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And since the fall of the regime, a lot of
these former offices they went back to their homes in
the coastal villages and they've been kind of hiding out
there because they have been you know, sort of revenge
attacks and things like that. And many of them they
know that justice is coming. They did horrible things, you know,
whether they were snipers during the siege of cities, whether
they you know, they flew the planes or helicopters that
dropped barrel bombs on civilians.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They know that trouble is coming for them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And so in March there was this sort of counter
insurgency led by what Syrians called the Fullul, which is
a bit for kind of remnants, like remnants of the
former regime. And so on one eve there was a
series of coordinated attacks across the coast where they ambushed
members of the new security services and you know, shot
(10:07):
and killed many of them. And what we saw in
response to that was this overwhelming show of force. You know,
thousands of members of general security and the army were
sent to the region, and you also just saw, you know,
armed and motivated civilians basically showed up in the back
of highlux trucks with guns and participated in this sort
(10:30):
of orgy of violence against Alowite civilians. Million thousand civilians
were killed across a couple of days.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
They would ask people only one question, are you Alowite
or Sunni? Then they would shoot when they know you
were Alowite.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You have groups kind of sweeping through these villages and
knocking on doors and basically pulling all Alohite men out
of their homes and shooting them in the street. You know,
a man from one of these towns, Baniasi, sent me
a voice note describing what had happened. Basically all the
men in some apartment buildings being just taken up to
the roof and shot.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
We learned that they took my sixty eighty year old
uncle to the roof with five people and shot them
in cold blood. Entire families, including children and women, were
wiped out.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And you know, you saw this play out across multiple
towns and villages. So we're just entering now the village
of Arosa, which is in the eastern edge of the mountains,
where I went to one of them not long afterwards.
It's a very very small village called Ala. It's incredibly poor,
and there were sixty eight people killed there, mostly men,
(11:38):
but women and children as well. And I think what
was striking was the level of coordination that they described
between these armed factions and the new authorities. So they described,
you know, the meeting at the police station beforehand, coming
in convoy in the you know, in the same cars.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Meanwhile, so the game the.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Armed groups and they were asking if they have weapons,
searching for weapons, and that we don't have any weapons.
They told him that he's lying, and then they took
him out of the house and they shot between their legs.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And while it was very unclear to them who was
doing exactly what, because there was a range of different
kind of uniforms and styles of dress between all of
these different groups, they all very clearly described to me,
you know, the presence of general security alongside this, and
the fact that you know, they were not reigning in
this violence, they were, if not participating, certainly turning a
blind eye to it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So what you're describing, Hardy, is a horrific and extremely
complex situation. What sense do you have about whether Ahmed
Altrara will be able to hold together a government and
create a sense of stability in Syria.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So how he deals with what happened on the coast
actually will be a big tell for you know, his
ability to hold things together, because it will give us
some kind of insight into whether he's willing to, you know,
be accountable for crimes in his own backyard and to
what degree he actually is sort of held hostage by
some of these more extreme factions that had a huge
(13:09):
role to play in this violence, but that he is
reliant upon in order to keep the country together and
to kind of exit basic security control. So that will
be a real indicator I think of his strength among
his allies. The other big challenge is the need for
transitional justice. I think that we wouldn't have seen such
a wave of extreme violence if many Syrians felt lack
(13:33):
there was movement towards accountability and punishment and some kind
of formal court process for members of the regime. And
you know, in the last couple of days we have
seen a formal body established to start tackling that. It's
taken a long time, and many Syrians are confused about
why it's taken so long.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
To move towards that.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And the other big challenge is many of these sort
of remnants of various armed groups that took up residents
in Syria at the course of the civil war looking
to exploit any kind of chaos that they're able to.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And the big one there is ISIS.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know, we've seen a resurgence just in the last
few days, there was a car bomb in eastern Syria,
the first ISIS car bomb since the fall of the regime,
and direct fighting between the new government and ISIS cells
in Aleppo as well. So that's a real challenge that
he'll need to keep a hand along. But I think
given how brutal the regime was and how brutal the
(14:25):
war was, there has been a remarkable amount of stability
really so far. One of the main threats I think
will be, you know, whether you see some of these
groups being unhappy with compromises that Shara will need to
make in order to satisfy the international community. You know,
so whether that's something like signing the Abraham Accords, whether
(14:46):
it is a perception that he's been too progressive or
he's not implementing the Islamic law that many of these
guys have been fighting for for a long time.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think that's a real risk.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There are still many many actors in SA that would
be seeking to exploit any any kind of chaos.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Heidi, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It's been really good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Also in the news today, electricity prices are set to
rise for almost half a million households in New South Wales,
Southeast Queensland and South Australia from July first. The Default
Market Offer, which acts as a price cap for energy retailers,
will increase for households and small businesses in these states,
with the Australian energy regulators saying the wholesale costs and
(15:44):
the price of transporting electricity have risen and labour MP
ed Husick says the Australian government should commit to target
its sanctions if Israel refuses to relent in its expanded
military offensive in Gaza. The comments come after lease fifty
four Palestinians were killed, most of them sheltering in a
school building during Israeli air strikes on Gaza. Ed Hughesick
(16:08):
says he wants stronger action from the Australian government. You've
been listening to seven AM we'll be back tomorrow.
At the start of the year, Hardy pet met with
newly declared Syrian president almed alsra.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I met him the day after he had declared himself
interim president, and so you know, he's taken up residents
in the presidential palace. So they sent these two armored
cars to come and pick us up and take us
through Damascus and and up into the presidential Palace.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
It's all of the choreography of meeting any world leader.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
You know, they take your phones in, your electronics and
security screening, all that kind of stuff. But it was
sort of striking right because the Presidential Palace here in
Damascus is enormous, you know, it's bigger than the White House.
But it was completely empty.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
The palace was empty because almed Alchurra and his men
had rolled into Damascus and taken over suddenly.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Verified footage shows a Syrian rebel tanks in one of
Damascus's central squares.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Today it is a coalition of rebel groups that are
in charge in Damascus the law.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Just a few months before announcing himself president, al had
a ten million dollar bounty out for his arrest. Once
the leader of the Alnusra Front and a member of
al Qaeda in Iraq, he was an enemy of the
United States in person.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I found it quite interesting, actually, because you would expect
a man who has the background that he has, you know,
as a fighter, as a man who has engaged in
direct conflict with groups like ISIS and has managed to survive,
you know, all of these shifting alliances there, to have
a sort of more physically imposing presence than I felt
that he did. I found him quite almost awkward. You know,
(01:31):
he sat there during an interview with his hands on
both of his knees, almost like he was having his
school portrait taken. All of a sudden, he's in the
presidential palace and he's expected to run a country.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, it's a big job.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
A mantle that I don't feel that he is always
wearing particularly comfortably.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Recently, Al Shara had another meeting with Donald Trump. Trump
praised him and announced hit lift sanctions in Syria. From
Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is seven am today,
Damascus Space, corresponded Hardi pet on how El Sharra pulled
that off and what it means for the future of
(02:07):
his country. It's Wednesday, May eight, Heidi. When Donald Trump
met with Almid al Shara earlier this month. He called
him a young attractive guy, a tough guy with a
strong past.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
Right, I think very good, young attractive guy, tough guy,
you know, strong pass stroke pass made him.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What did you make of that description?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean I thought that quote was really funny. Right,
It's a strong past. It's quite an interesting way for
the US president to describe Sharah. You know, this, this
is a guy who the US had a ten million
dollar bounty on Charra's head until very very recently. And
I think that just goes to show this incredible journey
that Sharah has gone on. You know, he was a
real amount of mystery for a lot time, not much
(03:01):
was known about him.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
He was born in Saudi Arabia in nineteen eighty two,
after his family was forced to leave the Golan Heights.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
What we do now now is, you know, he grew
up in a.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Middle class suburb, in a middle class family in Damascus.
His father was an economist, but he gradually started spending
a lot more time in the mosque.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
By around two thousand, he started to become radicalized. When
asked how he felt aboutline and.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
You know, and with some preachers who encouraged some of.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
The people at that mosque to board these sort of
famous buses that left Damascus for young young men to
go and fight in Iraq after the American invasion, and
Shira got on one of those.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yet Syria, joining al Qaeder in Iraq, which led to
his subsequent arrest and.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
You know, he ended up detained in Iraq for some time.
He was actually able to pose as a local in Iraq.
You know, he's noted for being able to speak Arabic
with an Iraqi accent, which meant that he wasn't treated
as harshly. You know, if he had been known that
he was a foreign fighter in Iraq, he would.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Have had much out of time of it.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I think this indicates how much of a kind of
you know, his ability to shape shift and to adapt,
you know, and then going on to navigate these shifting
alliances and this conflict between you know, al Qaeda al Nustra,
which he was the leader of, he has managed to
really rise to the top and sort of pick off
opponents along the way. And there's been this sort of
questioning about him about whether, you know, whether the jihadi
(04:26):
can become a politician.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
But certainly.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
You know, my sense of him in that meeting and
just in general is actually, you know, I think this
man has been a politician all along. You know, his
ability to make and break alliances when it suits him
is quite notable.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, So when you meet him, he'd just taken over
as president of Syria. So what did he say at
the time about his vision for the country's future.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, it was interesting, right, because there was at that
time a lot of apprehension about what kind of rule
we would see, whether there would be anything, you know,
re mbling democracy, and he did commit to that, but
it was quite tempered. He said, in our region, there
are various definitions of democracy.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
But he you know, he really emphasized the need for time.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You know that there will not be elections for several years.
The country needs to be stabilized first. But you know,
since that meeting, things have become a little more clear.
So a draft constitution was issued in March, and that's
committed the country to this five year transitional period during
which he will be the leader. And you know a
lot of measures were maintained from the old constitution, so
(05:32):
Islamic law will be the main source of law.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
There's new things in there, you.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Know, guaranteeing freedom of opinion, expression, the press, rights for
minorities and women, which all, you know, all sounds really good.
But the thing that is notable is this quite serious
concentration of power in the hands of the president. And
so there is a great deal of concern about that
from civil society here and from some international actors, you know,
about this concentration of power and whether whether having exercised
(05:59):
that power for five years, there will really be a
democratic transition at the end of it.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Now he's managed to secure a lifting of sanctions for Syria,
with Trump saying the country has a chance at greatness.
You've been living in Damascus since the fall of Assad.
How to describe the quality of life there for ordinary Syrians?
And how do you think the announcement that sanctions will
be lifted will change that?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, I mean, the economic situation for most Syrians is incredibly,
incredibly dire. Ninety percent of people here are living under
the poverty line. People can't afford fuel, people can barely
afford food. Medicine is incredibly expensive, and so you know,
for a very long time now, it's been incredibly difficult
to import anything into Syria, you know, including medicine, including
(06:47):
medical equipment, you know, And it's impacted the ability for
any kind of international organization to deliver humanitarian assistance, you know,
smaller organizations that might take donations, you can't really legally
send money to Syria.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
At the moment.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
And so the impact of these sanctions on daily life
for people here in.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Syria is really really serious.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And it's not just the kind of direct impact of
these US sanctions either. When the regime fell and there
was this need for funding and support to begin rebuilding
this country. Countries like Cutter, they announced a very serious
aid package, but that package of assistance was really delayed
because the Cuttery government was worried that even sending that
(07:29):
money to Syria would mean that their own country fell
foul of these US sanctions.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
So the kind of butterfly effect of the US lifting.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
These sanctions will be will be huge. Speaking to people
in Damascus in the last couple of days, there is
a renewed sense of hope.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Nobody expected this would happen so quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
After the break. Can Ahmad Altrarad hold together a government
and country filled with unresis tensions? Heidi, the United States
has a list of demands that Syria needs to adhere
to in order for sanctions to be lifted, things like
signing the Abraham Accords, to normalize relationships with Israel, deporting
(08:16):
quote Palestinian terrorists, helping the US prevent the resurgence of vices,
and protecting religious minorities. In March, nearly nine hundred Ala
white civilians were killed in Syria. You went to these
communities where these massacres took place, Can you tell me
what happened?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah. The Alowites are They're one of the largest minority
religious groups in Syria.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
It's an offshoot of Shia Islam.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
And the Assad family were Alowites, and during the rule
of the Father and the Son, they sort of exploited
and deepened these sectarian tensions within Syria. They promoted members
of the Alowites sect to senior positions in the government
and the military, so it bred a great deal of resentment.
But they also deliberately kept the coastal regions, which is
(09:03):
where you know many Allo Whites in Syria are from.
They deliberately kept this region very poor and very underdeveloped,
so that it meant that they were actually very reliant
on government jobs or military jobs, because it was the
only kind of viable career path for many.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
People in these regions.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And since the fall of the regime, a lot of
these former offices they went back to their homes in
the coastal villages and they've been kind of hiding out
there because they have been you know, sort of revenge
attacks and things like that. And many of them they
know that justice is coming. They did horrible things, you know,
whether they were snipers during the siege of cities, whether
they you know, they flew the planes or helicopters that
dropped barrel bombs on civilians.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
They know that trouble is coming for them.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
And so in March there was this sort of counter
insurgency led by what Syrians called the Fullul, which is
a bit for kind of remnants, like remnants of the
former regime. And so on one eve there was a
series of coordinated attacks across the coast where they ambushed
members of the new security services and you know, shot
(10:07):
and killed many of them. And what we saw in
response to that was this overwhelming show of force. You know,
thousands of members of general security and the army were
sent to the region, and you also just saw, you know,
armed and motivated civilians basically showed up in the back
of highlux trucks with guns and participated in this sort
(10:30):
of orgy of violence against Alowite civilians. Million thousand civilians
were killed across a couple of days.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
They would ask people only one question, are you Alowite
or Sunni? Then they would shoot when they know you
were Alowite.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
You have groups kind of sweeping through these villages and
knocking on doors and basically pulling all Alohite men out
of their homes and shooting them in the street. You know,
a man from one of these towns, Baniasi, sent me
a voice note describing what had happened. Basically all the
men in some apartment buildings being just taken up to
the roof and shot.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
We learned that they took my sixty eighty year old
uncle to the roof with five people and shot them
in cold blood. Entire families, including children and women, were
wiped out.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
And you know, you saw this play out across multiple
towns and villages. So we're just entering now the village
of Arosa, which is in the eastern edge of the mountains,
where I went to one of them not long afterwards.
It's a very very small village called Ala. It's incredibly poor,
and there were sixty eight people killed there, mostly men,
(11:38):
but women and children as well. And I think what
was striking was the level of coordination that they described
between these armed factions and the new authorities. So they described,
you know, the meeting at the police station beforehand, coming
in convoy in the you know, in the same cars.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Meanwhile, so the game the.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Armed groups and they were asking if they have weapons,
searching for weapons, and that we don't have any weapons.
They told him that he's lying, and then they took
him out of the house and they shot between their legs.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
And while it was very unclear to them who was
doing exactly what, because there was a range of different
kind of uniforms and styles of dress between all of
these different groups, they all very clearly described to me,
you know, the presence of general security alongside this, and
the fact that you know, they were not reigning in
this violence, they were, if not participating, certainly turning a
blind eye to it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
So what you're describing, Hardy, is a horrific and extremely
complex situation. What sense do you have about whether Ahmed
Altrara will be able to hold together a government and
create a sense of stability in Syria.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So how he deals with what happened on the coast
actually will be a big tell for you know, his
ability to hold things together, because it will give us
some kind of insight into whether he's willing to, you know,
be accountable for crimes in his own backyard and to
what degree he actually is sort of held hostage by
some of these more extreme factions that had a huge
(13:09):
role to play in this violence, but that he is
reliant upon in order to keep the country together and
to kind of exit basic security control. So that will
be a real indicator I think of his strength among
his allies. The other big challenge is the need for
transitional justice. I think that we wouldn't have seen such
a wave of extreme violence if many Syrians felt lack
(13:33):
there was movement towards accountability and punishment and some kind
of formal court process for members of the regime. And
you know, in the last couple of days we have
seen a formal body established to start tackling that. It's
taken a long time, and many Syrians are confused about
why it's taken so long.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
To move towards that.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And the other big challenge is many of these sort
of remnants of various armed groups that took up residents
in Syria at the course of the civil war looking
to exploit any kind of chaos that they're able to.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And the big one there is ISIS.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know, we've seen a resurgence just in the last
few days, there was a car bomb in eastern Syria,
the first ISIS car bomb since the fall of the regime,
and direct fighting between the new government and ISIS cells
in Aleppo as well. So that's a real challenge that
he'll need to keep a hand along. But I think
given how brutal the regime was and how brutal the
(14:25):
war was, there has been a remarkable amount of stability
really so far. One of the main threats I think
will be, you know, whether you see some of these
groups being unhappy with compromises that Shara will need to
make in order to satisfy the international community. You know,
so whether that's something like signing the Abraham Accords, whether
(14:46):
it is a perception that he's been too progressive or
he's not implementing the Islamic law that many of these
guys have been fighting for for a long time.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
I think that's a real risk.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
There are still many many actors in SA that would
be seeking to exploit any any kind of chaos.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Heidi, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
It's been really good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Also in the news today, electricity prices are set to
rise for almost half a million households in New South Wales,
Southeast Queensland and South Australia from July first. The Default
Market Offer, which acts as a price cap for energy retailers,
will increase for households and small businesses in these states,
with the Australian energy regulators saying the wholesale costs and
(15:44):
the price of transporting electricity have risen and labour MP
ed Husick says the Australian government should commit to target
its sanctions if Israel refuses to relent in its expanded
military offensive in Gaza. The comments come after lease fifty
four Palestinians were killed, most of them sheltering in a
school building during Israeli air strikes on Gaza. Ed Hughesick
(16:08):
says he wants stronger action from the Australian government. You've
been listening to seven AM we'll be back tomorrow.
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