September 30, 2025 • 15 mins
Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu have unveiled a 20-point proposal they say could end the war in Gaza “immediately” – after nearly two years of bombardment and mounting international pressure.
At its core, Hamas must release all hostages, disarm and have no role in Gaza’s future governance. Israel would not commit to a full withdrawal – retaining the freedom to re-enter Gaza and a widened footprint inside The Strip.
The plan also creates a new “Board of Peace” chaired by Trump to oversee a transition, but leaves key gaps: about who would truly govern Gaza, and whether Palestinian statehood remains on the table.
Today, Senior Diplomatic Correspondent for HuffPost Akbar Shahid Ahmed on how this proposal outsources Gaza's future and gives leverage to Israel.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: Akbar Shahid Ahmed is the Senior Diplomatic Correspondent for HuffPost
Photo: Sipa USA
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am. At
a press conference at the White House, Donald Trump and
Benjamin Etna, who unveiled a twenty point proposal they say
could end the war in Gaza immediately after nearly two
years of bombardment and growing international pressure. At its core,
(00:23):
the proposal states mus must release all hostages, disarm, and
have no role in Gaza's future, while Israel would not
commit to a full withdrawal, keeping the right to re
enter Gaza and establishing a security footprint within the Strip.
The plan also includes creating a so called Board of Peace,
chaired by Donald Trump himself to oversee the transition, but
(00:45):
it leaves many questions unanswered, including how Gaza would be
governed and whether Palestinian statehood is even on the cards today.
Senior diplomatic correspondent for Half Post Akbasha hid Ahmed on
how this plan outsources Gaza's future and gives leverage to Israel.
(01:06):
It's Wednesday, October one. So this is a big, big day,
a beautiful day, potentially one of the great days ever
in civilization. So Donald Trump and Benjamin ya who have
just announced what they are calling a peace plan for Gaza.
(01:30):
Can you just start by telling me what they've said.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, it's a striking plan. Essentially, Na Nyahu and Trump
unveiled a proposal that said Hamas would have to within
Sandy two hours, agree to a series of stats to disarm,
release hostages, accept the release of falsten In prisoners in exchange,
and it would have to give up on a lot
of its quartermands for previous agreements.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
To end the war, Hamas will be disarmed, Gaza will
be demilitarized, Israel will retain security responsibility, including a security
perimeter for the foreseeable future. And lastly, Gaza will have
a peaceful civilian administration that is rut neither by Hamas
(02:16):
nor by the Palestinian authority.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It that tracks suddle the most extreme demands that we've
seen earlier in the Trump administration. So, for instance, it
doesn't say that Palestinians have to move en mass out
of Gaza. It says that they can choose to say
there if they want to. But in a lot of ways,
it's a plan that's quite tilted Sillian savor as well.
(02:39):
In the US. So, for instance, this new agreement that
Trump and a Nia who have put out would say,
we're not going to talk about a full Israeli withdrawal
from Gaza as part of a compromise in the war.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I have a feeling that we're going to have a
positive answer. But if not, as you know, maybe you'd
have mar fall back in to do what you would
have to do.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's also an agreement that Trump and Nttnil, who are
both linked to immense threats, saying by going to go
through with further bombardment, which is really hard for Balactinians
to kind of understand just from a point of view
if that's been intense bombardment.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So what is in the proposal that who would actually
take control of Gaza.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So the idea of the control of Gaza in this
kind of true speriod is an international stabilization force overseen
by a board run by President Trump, but with involvement
from Arab states, from Tony Blair, the architect, of course
of British involvement in the Iraq War, a disastrous US
(03:42):
foreign policy move in two thousand and three that many
people in the region still think about frequently. So these
kind of figures would be involved.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The leaders of the Arab world and Israel and everybody
involved asked me to do this, so it would be
headed by a gentleman known as President Donald J.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Trump of the UN.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It really quite resembles the international security force that's been
put in place to run the aid operation of Gaza,
and that's been hugely controversial and really not quite successful.
More than one hundred and seventy non governmental organizations operating
in Gaza have called for the immediate end of the
US and Israeli backdaid distribution scheme. And I just invite
(04:24):
folks to consider that. You know, President Biden himself and
many US officials have said repeatedly that a big part
of why October seven itself happened is because of this
kind of rush to treat Israel Palestigne as an issue
without a Palestinian voice, as an issue that the Arab power,
(04:45):
Saudi Arabia, Israel, the US could just deal with.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So, there is a lot in this proposal that might
make it difficult for not just Hamas, but for Palestinians
in general to accept, particularly Donald Trump's role in having
direct oversight. So how do you think that will land?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Look?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
The pedestal people are not unaware of Donald Trump's past
record and statements around their rights stas determination.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
This is someone who in his first presidency gave Israel
huge amounts of power, access, recognition and never gotten before.
So there's not a lot of trust thet right if
you have Donald Trump at the at the head. And
of course in this presidency he's talked about a riviera
in Gaza, the Gaza Strip as a sort of seafront
(05:34):
water development, which is a chilling way ruby to really
talk about a war zone and probably the most devastated
war zone of the twenty first century.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Be cute.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I don't want to be a wise guy, but the
riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that
could be so bad, This could be so magnificent.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That said, there's a real kind of reliance on Arab
states and Arab powers to be the key forces here
to united our memirates. And they have the money, don't
necessarily have the manpower, I think that's the real question, right,
And will they necessarily put their own forces in there?
(06:11):
Or when they're talking about Palatinians security forces, who will
they hire? Will they be welcomed by the local population.
These are all kind of really really tough questions, especially
when You're talking about a population of two point two
million people who have felt so beleeded and so abandoned
by the world. So the plan talks about Hamas Hammas
(06:37):
leaders and fighters disarming and committing to having no future
role in the governments of Gaza. It talks about Israel's
freedom of action and this idea that Israel will forever
be able to go in and out whenever it wants
to have a military operation. But it gives really the
tiniest lip service towards any future for the Palestinians in
(07:00):
terms of their own self determination. And that's the real
sticking point at the Hawks.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Review, coming up the threats underpinning.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
The plan, I think we should understand that we're giving
everybody a chance to have this done peacefully, something that
(07:33):
will achieve all our war objectives without any further bloodshed.
But if Hamas rejects your plan, mister President, or if
they supposedly accept it and then basically do everything to
counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself.
(07:53):
This can be done the easy way, or it can
be done the hard way.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Will be done Akba Trump and Ntya who have said
that if Hamas does not sign on to this plan,
then the bombardment will continue. So what kind of pace
plan is it under those conditions.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It's interesting because I think talking to people in the
Trump administration, there is a real appetite and a desire
to see a resolution, right, But it's weirdly constricting with this,
with the sense of we can offer pressure on or
question Israel in any way.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So you haven't seen the Trump administration, any officials or
President Trump talked about limiting military support to Israel, And
so as long as you as military funding and aid
and weaponry continue to flow, I don't really see how
there's a real possibility of pressure, right, which has been
the kind of missing factor. Of course, Hamas has been
(08:55):
brutal towards hostages, began the war, through its brutal up
to over sudden attack. But but two years and now
and the US is kind of the determining factor Latin.
The Trump administration has kind of hoped that rhetoric will
make them different than the Biden administration, and they're realizing
now ten months in that's not enough.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I just wanted to talk a bit about the promise
for aid because that's one of the other things that
is mentioned in this plan that should it go ahead,
there will be full aid immediately sent to Gaza. But
is that really an admission that you know aid is
being withheld right now?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, I think you've hit a nail on the head Ruby,
because every time that AID is kind of put forward
as a plus point or a concession in a piece seal,
that's essentially saying that aid, which is a requirement for
any civilian agia conventions, that's essentially saying it's been used
as bargainship. People in Gaza are so desperate and the
(10:00):
you know eight groups will tell you us, local medical
workers will tell you this, there's a desire to just
say whatever it takes, get supplies in.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But what we've seen, especially from the model that the
trumplementistation has implemented, which is really backing since me the
glassa humanitarian foundation, we've seen thousands of Palestinians killed while
trying to reach aid. We've seen that A provisions have
not been the actual nutritious provision, right. It hasn't been
(10:30):
high protein, high fiber, that kind of thing that actually
helps people feel nourished. So when you're talking about a
at this point, if there's not a guarantee of neutral,
internationally distributed age that is fairly shared. I think even
that is it's kind of a stretch to put faith in.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And can we talk a little more about self determination
in Palestinian statehood, because it was, you know, just a
couple of weeks ago that Benjamin Netnyahu said that they
would be no Palestinian state and he still continues to
say that. He's also laying out plans to expand settlements
in the West Bank. And while he was announcing this
plan this week, Trump called Palestinian recognition foolish. However, the
(11:15):
plan does mention the idea of working towards Palestinian statehoods.
So I suppose, in the context of what's being said
and what's being written down, is it at all credible
to think that that is actually something that could come
out of this plan.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
That's kind of trially as to this the quick long
term is historically the US has of course said to
say solution, we support it, moves towards it have been
really tough for the US to take, and we haven't
seen kind of Palastinian autotomy be implemented medium term, especially
in the last kind of Tenuyeres net Nahoo. He has
(11:51):
made denying Palestinian statehood his ultimate promise two days really right,
and so this has become this of defining Mo as
an Israeli politician and as we have to remember, the
longest serving prime minister in Israeli history. And then just
in the short term, they talk about the Palastinian Authority,
(12:12):
which is internationally backed, eventually being able to take over
if it takes certain particular reforms. What we've seen is
that the Palestinian Authority a has through its own kind
of sclerotic and unrepresentative leadership, not reformed, and b even
to degrees to which it has changed and reformed, has
(12:34):
not kind of met the standards that international partners of
want to see. Some Palaestinians see that as as kind
of a sense of it'll never be enough. You know,
we can give you everything you ask for, and you
really just don't want to give us any autonomy Under
this plan, there's a real sense of let's just kick
the sound road a little further right. And really part
(12:56):
of the plan is is hinging on Ntniahu changing his
political moo and moving towards a more moderate, less far
right government, which he has not shown indication to do
over the last five to ten.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Years, and Israel has given him Ust seventy two hours
to agree or not to this plan. So if they don't,
what do you think we're likely to see happen?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I mean, I think we're already seeing just an unreal
decimation of Gaza city. We're seeing continued US backed Israeli bombardment.
It's hard to know, right, I mean, sort of when
we just closed un Week one year ago. At un Week,
(13:44):
the Israeli government assassinated Hassee Masrilla, leader of the his
Biloa militia and Lebanon, which no one really expected. So
otherwise I think we're just see an expansion of these
really offensive that's continued, and of course it is really
really controversial within Israeli society, beyond being a of course,
hugely punishing for Parasitians who's left through two years of war.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I'm both thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Hi, it's Ruby.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We have a second episode of seven Am in your
feed today. Doctor Rachel Coglan is an Australian palliative care
doctor who spent time in hospitals and healthcare facilities in Gaza. Recently,
she got a lengthy voice message from a friend and
colleague there about why, after caring for people through two
years of war, he reluctantly made the decision to finally
(14:46):
flee Gaza City. It's called What's Left of Gaza's Hospitals,
and it's in your feed now
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am. At
a press conference at the White House, Donald Trump and
Benjamin Etna, who unveiled a twenty point proposal they say
could end the war in Gaza immediately after nearly two
years of bombardment and growing international pressure. At its core,
(00:23):
the proposal states mus must release all hostages, disarm, and
have no role in Gaza's future, while Israel would not
commit to a full withdrawal, keeping the right to re
enter Gaza and establishing a security footprint within the Strip.
The plan also includes creating a so called Board of Peace,
chaired by Donald Trump himself to oversee the transition, but
(00:45):
it leaves many questions unanswered, including how Gaza would be
governed and whether Palestinian statehood is even on the cards today.
Senior diplomatic correspondent for Half Post Akbasha hid Ahmed on
how this plan outsources Gaza's future and gives leverage to Israel.
(01:06):
It's Wednesday, October one. So this is a big, big day,
a beautiful day, potentially one of the great days ever
in civilization. So Donald Trump and Benjamin ya who have
just announced what they are calling a peace plan for Gaza.
(01:30):
Can you just start by telling me what they've said.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, it's a striking plan. Essentially, Na Nyahu and Trump
unveiled a proposal that said Hamas would have to within
Sandy two hours, agree to a series of stats to disarm,
release hostages, accept the release of falsten In prisoners in exchange,
and it would have to give up on a lot
of its quartermands for previous agreements.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
To end the war, Hamas will be disarmed, Gaza will
be demilitarized, Israel will retain security responsibility, including a security
perimeter for the foreseeable future. And lastly, Gaza will have
a peaceful civilian administration that is rut neither by Hamas
(02:16):
nor by the Palestinian authority.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
It that tracks suddle the most extreme demands that we've
seen earlier in the Trump administration. So, for instance, it
doesn't say that Palestinians have to move en mass out
of Gaza. It says that they can choose to say
there if they want to. But in a lot of ways,
it's a plan that's quite tilted Sillian savor as well.
(02:39):
In the US. So, for instance, this new agreement that
Trump and a Nia who have put out would say,
we're not going to talk about a full Israeli withdrawal
from Gaza as part of a compromise in the war.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I have a feeling that we're going to have a
positive answer. But if not, as you know, maybe you'd
have mar fall back in to do what you would
have to do.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's also an agreement that Trump and Nttnil, who are
both linked to immense threats, saying by going to go
through with further bombardment, which is really hard for Balactinians
to kind of understand just from a point of view
if that's been intense bombardment.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So what is in the proposal that who would actually
take control of Gaza.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So the idea of the control of Gaza in this
kind of true speriod is an international stabilization force overseen
by a board run by President Trump, but with involvement
from Arab states, from Tony Blair, the architect, of course
of British involvement in the Iraq War, a disastrous US
(03:42):
foreign policy move in two thousand and three that many
people in the region still think about frequently. So these
kind of figures would be involved.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
The leaders of the Arab world and Israel and everybody
involved asked me to do this, so it would be
headed by a gentleman known as President Donald J.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Trump of the UN.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It really quite resembles the international security force that's been
put in place to run the aid operation of Gaza,
and that's been hugely controversial and really not quite successful.
More than one hundred and seventy non governmental organizations operating
in Gaza have called for the immediate end of the
US and Israeli backdaid distribution scheme. And I just invite
(04:24):
folks to consider that. You know, President Biden himself and
many US officials have said repeatedly that a big part
of why October seven itself happened is because of this
kind of rush to treat Israel Palestigne as an issue
without a Palestinian voice, as an issue that the Arab power,
(04:45):
Saudi Arabia, Israel, the US could just deal with.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So, there is a lot in this proposal that might
make it difficult for not just Hamas, but for Palestinians
in general to accept, particularly Donald Trump's role in having
direct oversight. So how do you think that will land?
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Look?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
The pedestal people are not unaware of Donald Trump's past
record and statements around their rights stas determination.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
This is someone who in his first presidency gave Israel
huge amounts of power, access, recognition and never gotten before.
So there's not a lot of trust thet right if
you have Donald Trump at the at the head. And
of course in this presidency he's talked about a riviera
in Gaza, the Gaza Strip as a sort of seafront
(05:34):
water development, which is a chilling way ruby to really
talk about a war zone and probably the most devastated
war zone of the twenty first century.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Be cute.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I don't want to be a wise guy, but the
riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that
could be so bad, This could be so magnificent.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That said, there's a real kind of reliance on Arab
states and Arab powers to be the key forces here
to united our memirates. And they have the money, don't
necessarily have the manpower, I think that's the real question, right,
And will they necessarily put their own forces in there?
(06:11):
Or when they're talking about Palatinians security forces, who will
they hire? Will they be welcomed by the local population.
These are all kind of really really tough questions, especially
when You're talking about a population of two point two
million people who have felt so beleeded and so abandoned
by the world. So the plan talks about Hamas Hammas
(06:37):
leaders and fighters disarming and committing to having no future
role in the governments of Gaza. It talks about Israel's
freedom of action and this idea that Israel will forever
be able to go in and out whenever it wants
to have a military operation. But it gives really the
tiniest lip service towards any future for the Palestinians in
(07:00):
terms of their own self determination. And that's the real
sticking point at the Hawks.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Review, coming up the threats underpinning.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
The plan, I think we should understand that we're giving
everybody a chance to have this done peacefully, something that
(07:33):
will achieve all our war objectives without any further bloodshed.
But if Hamas rejects your plan, mister President, or if
they supposedly accept it and then basically do everything to
counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself.
(07:53):
This can be done the easy way, or it can
be done the hard way.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Will be done Akba Trump and Ntya who have said
that if Hamas does not sign on to this plan,
then the bombardment will continue. So what kind of pace
plan is it under those conditions.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
It's interesting because I think talking to people in the
Trump administration, there is a real appetite and a desire
to see a resolution, right, But it's weirdly constricting with this,
with the sense of we can offer pressure on or
question Israel in any way.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So you haven't seen the Trump administration, any officials or
President Trump talked about limiting military support to Israel, And
so as long as you as military funding and aid
and weaponry continue to flow, I don't really see how
there's a real possibility of pressure, right, which has been
the kind of missing factor. Of course, Hamas has been
(08:55):
brutal towards hostages, began the war, through its brutal up
to over sudden attack. But but two years and now
and the US is kind of the determining factor Latin.
The Trump administration has kind of hoped that rhetoric will
make them different than the Biden administration, and they're realizing
now ten months in that's not enough.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I just wanted to talk a bit about the promise
for aid because that's one of the other things that
is mentioned in this plan that should it go ahead,
there will be full aid immediately sent to Gaza. But
is that really an admission that you know aid is
being withheld right now?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, I think you've hit a nail on the head Ruby,
because every time that AID is kind of put forward
as a plus point or a concession in a piece seal,
that's essentially saying that aid, which is a requirement for
any civilian agia conventions, that's essentially saying it's been used
as bargainship. People in Gaza are so desperate and the
(10:00):
you know eight groups will tell you us, local medical
workers will tell you this, there's a desire to just
say whatever it takes, get supplies in.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
But what we've seen, especially from the model that the
trumplementistation has implemented, which is really backing since me the
glassa humanitarian foundation, we've seen thousands of Palestinians killed while
trying to reach aid. We've seen that A provisions have
not been the actual nutritious provision, right. It hasn't been
(10:30):
high protein, high fiber, that kind of thing that actually
helps people feel nourished. So when you're talking about a
at this point, if there's not a guarantee of neutral,
internationally distributed age that is fairly shared. I think even
that is it's kind of a stretch to put faith in.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And can we talk a little more about self determination
in Palestinian statehood, because it was, you know, just a
couple of weeks ago that Benjamin Netnyahu said that they
would be no Palestinian state and he still continues to
say that. He's also laying out plans to expand settlements
in the West Bank. And while he was announcing this
plan this week, Trump called Palestinian recognition foolish. However, the
(11:15):
plan does mention the idea of working towards Palestinian statehoods.
So I suppose, in the context of what's being said
and what's being written down, is it at all credible
to think that that is actually something that could come
out of this plan.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
That's kind of trially as to this the quick long
term is historically the US has of course said to
say solution, we support it, moves towards it have been
really tough for the US to take, and we haven't
seen kind of Palastinian autotomy be implemented medium term, especially
in the last kind of Tenuyeres net Nahoo. He has
(11:51):
made denying Palestinian statehood his ultimate promise two days really right,
and so this has become this of defining Mo as
an Israeli politician and as we have to remember, the
longest serving prime minister in Israeli history. And then just
in the short term, they talk about the Palastinian Authority,
(12:12):
which is internationally backed, eventually being able to take over
if it takes certain particular reforms. What we've seen is
that the Palestinian Authority a has through its own kind
of sclerotic and unrepresentative leadership, not reformed, and b even
to degrees to which it has changed and reformed, has
(12:34):
not kind of met the standards that international partners of
want to see. Some Palaestinians see that as as kind
of a sense of it'll never be enough. You know,
we can give you everything you ask for, and you
really just don't want to give us any autonomy Under
this plan, there's a real sense of let's just kick
the sound road a little further right. And really part
(12:56):
of the plan is is hinging on Ntniahu changing his
political moo and moving towards a more moderate, less far
right government, which he has not shown indication to do
over the last five to ten.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Years, and Israel has given him Ust seventy two hours
to agree or not to this plan. So if they don't,
what do you think we're likely to see happen?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I mean, I think we're already seeing just an unreal
decimation of Gaza city. We're seeing continued US backed Israeli bombardment.
It's hard to know, right, I mean, sort of when
we just closed un Week one year ago. At un Week,
(13:44):
the Israeli government assassinated Hassee Masrilla, leader of the his
Biloa militia and Lebanon, which no one really expected. So
otherwise I think we're just see an expansion of these
really offensive that's continued, and of course it is really
really controversial within Israeli society, beyond being a of course,
hugely punishing for Parasitians who's left through two years of war.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I'm both thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Hi, it's Ruby.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We have a second episode of seven Am in your
feed today. Doctor Rachel Coglan is an Australian palliative care
doctor who spent time in hospitals and healthcare facilities in Gaza. Recently,
she got a lengthy voice message from a friend and
colleague there about why, after caring for people through two
years of war, he reluctantly made the decision to finally
(14:46):
flee Gaza City. It's called What's Left of Gaza's Hospitals,
and it's in your feed now
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.