September 22, 2025 • 15 mins
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is in New York for the UN General Assembly, where Australia has formally recognised the State of Palestine – a step that more than 150 UN member states have now taken.
The move is part of what Australian calls "a co-ordinated international effort to build new momentum for a two-state solution".
But with no active peace process, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowing to fight calls for Palestinian statehood, and the US attempting to scuttle the process – how much difference will recognition make?
Today, press gallery veteran Paul Bongiorno on whether Australia and others can shift the positions of Washington and Israel.
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Guest: Press gallery veteran, Paul Bongiorno
Photo: AAP Image/Lukas Coch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am. Prime
Minister Anthony Albanezi is in New York for the UN
General Assembly, where Australia has formally recognized the State of Palestine,
a step that more than one hundred and fifty UN
member states have now taken. The move is part of
(00:22):
what Australia calls a coordinated international effort to build new
momentum for the two state solution, but with no active
peace process, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Ettnia, who vowing to
fight calls for Palestinian statehood, and the US attempting to
scuttle the process. How much difference will recognition make? Today
(00:43):
Press Gallery veteran pauporn Jorno on whether Australia and others
can shift the positions of Washington and Israel. It's Tuesday,
September twenty three, So Paul. Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi. He's
(01:04):
in New York right now for the UN General Assembly,
and during his visit he officially announced Australia's recognition of
the state of Palestine.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Today. I'm pleased to be here with Minister Wong to
announce her effective today Sunday the twenty first of September
two thy and twenty five, the Comwealth of Australia recognizes
the State of Palestine.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We of course knew that this was coming, but still,
how significant is a moment.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Like this, Well, I've got to say it's highly significant
on a number of fronts. The first point to be made,
I believe, is that have to recognize who is doing
this recognizing, and it's three of the Five Eyes Nations.
Now these are the nations who have not only security
but intelligence sharing arrangements with the United States of America. So,
(01:52):
in other words, the three of the foremost trusted US
allies have put their signature to a call for the
recognition of the Palestinian state, saying enough is enough.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And this recognition being announced today in sinc with our
international partners, the United Kingdom and Canada, means that three
of the Five Eyes Nations are all making this decision today.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And furthermore, the only way that we can end this
seventy seven year old cycle of violence is to finally
do what the United Nations wanted in nineteen forty eight,
and that is recognize a Palestinian state.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
We recognize the legitimate, unlong held aspirations of the people
of Palestine of a state of their own, and in
doing so we reaffirm Australia's long standing position of two states.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Now the three five partners will be joined by other
friends of the United States and by the way of
Israel in the next two days. Of course, is a
key nation. It's already put its hand up. It will
be joining the formal recognition at the UN in the
next twenty four hours. Two years ago, these nations, including Australia,
(03:13):
were very wary of criticizing Israel, very aware that the
atrocities of Hamas gave Israel initially, if you like, a
certain moral ascendancy. But the way in which Israel has
waged the war against the Palestinians in Gaza is beyond
the pale. And I think that what this recognition shows
(03:37):
is that Australia and other countries will be less restrained
in their criticism of Israel, and it does open the
way for further sanctions against Israel if it doesn't comply.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And all of these countries moving to recognize a Palestinian state,
they say that this moment, this recognition, it has to
be part of a peace process. But as it stands
that doesn't exist, there is no peace process. So knowing that,
can this really be any more than a symbolic.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Gesture, Well, it is certainly a symbolic gesture, but it
has a weight to it and in a sense it
also puts pressure on the people making this symbolic gesture
to do more. And this is a point, for example,
that the Australian Greens picked up on Monday, saying okay,
you've done this. Now you've got to apply sanctions. Now,
(04:30):
you've even got to stop supplying parts for the Israeli
war jets you know that are bombing Gaza. So there's
pressure coming now back on Australia and the other New
states calling for the recognition of Palestine to do more
if this gesture, if this symbol doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And Israel is racing to make sure that there is
as little as possible physically left on the map to
actually form the basis of a state of power at Steyne,
and Benjamin Nettniaho has said that there will be no
Palestinian state to the west of the Jordan River at Mahnikido, and.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I have another message for you. It will not happen
a Palestinian state will not be established west of the
Jordan River. For years, I have prevented the establishment of
this terrorist state, despite tremendous pressure both domestically and internationally.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So does the idea of a two state solution reflects
the reality of what's happening on the ground now.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It certainly doesn't reflect a reality of what's happening on
the ground now with Nettin Yahoo, who, by the way,
doesn't have it all his own way, even in Israel.
As Anthony Albernizi has said on Monday in a number
of interviews, hundreds of thousands of Israelis are against what
their own government has done in the past two years,
(05:52):
but more particularly.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
What it is doing now.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So Nettin Yahoo, certainly, while he and his extremeist minister
are still in power, will do everything they can to
thwart the two state solution, and in fact have been
doing so for over a decade. But I just remind
you that what a state of Palestine should look like
is not exactly a mystery. The idea could well be
(06:16):
that we go back to the nineteen sixty seven borders.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Certainly we wouldn't go back.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
To the borders and visited back in nineteen forty eight,
and there is a precedent for this. Yeshtuk Rabin, who
you might remember, in nineteen ninety three, signed the Oslo
Accords on the south lawn of the White House. I
was lucky enough to be there to witness it along
with other Australian journalists. With the Palestinian leader Arafat. He
(06:44):
agreed to trade what was called land for peace, in
other words, to give back to the Palestinians the land
that settlers at that stage had taken.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Today we bear wedness to an extraordinary act in one
of history's defining dramas, a drama that began in the
time of our ancestors, when the word went forth from
a slaver of land between the River Jordan and the
Mediterranean Sea.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Now we have to make a note here that Rabin
paid his life for doing that. An extreme Israeli shot
him for making these sorts of concessions to the Palestinians.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And it's not just Israel against this. Of course, the
US seem to attempt to scuttle the whole process before
it began. It was denying the visas of eighty Palestinian officials,
including the Palestinian President Mahmuda Bus. So tell me what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, it's quite simply, as you outlined, the US State
Department refused to let Macmuda Bus and his party into
the United States.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
As we know, the United.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Nations is on the East River in New York, and
this move is very rarely done because part of the
agreement of America hosting the United Nations is that it
will allow people to carry out their duties at the
United Nations, including by the way in the past Soviet
leaders and in the present people like Putin.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
It'll be interested to see if they do the same
to him.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
But there is no doubt this is to express the
United States opposition to the Palestinian authority having any say
in any settlement and to deny, as far as it can,
any sort of peace process and recognition going forward.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Well, the United Nations.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
And indeed the Palestinian authority got around this by the
UN agreeing to allow a Bus to address the Assembly
virtually on a big video screen, so that in itself
sends a message that in this issue, at this point
of time, Israel and the United States are paro nations internationally.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
After the break, the Republicans trying to intimidate Australia to
back down on Palestine. Paul, there had been signs that
Anthony Aberzi would meet with Trump on this visit to
the US, but it hasn't happened yet. Is it likely today?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, Anthony Auberanzi's pretty relaxed about it. He says there
will be a meeting and Ruby. The word around Canberra
was that Albanzi and Trump had agreed to a face
to face meeting on Sunday, a US time, but the
President of course had to cancel that to attend the
funeral of the right wing commentator Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And so on that terrible day September tenth, twenty twenty five,
our greatest evangelist.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
For American liberty became immortal. He's a minyr now for
American freedom.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
The President is holding a reception in New York on Tuesday,
American time. I believe there's almost two hundred world leaders there.
So if Albertiz gets to meet him, he did say
in one interview I heard on Monday that he'd be saying,
get a nice to meet you personally. But he has
made the point that even in the last ten days
he's had a warm foam discussion with the President. He's
(10:29):
not too worried about it. The Prime Minister says, it's
a media obsession. It's one being pushed particularly by the
Murdoch media and of course by the opposition. But the
real touchstone is that the Australian American relationship in the
broadest sense is on a pretty firm footing. Trump has
said this to Albanezi, and we do know from the
(10:53):
trip that Richard Miles, the Deputy Prime Minister, made to
America three weeks ago that the Secretary of State Rubio
assured Richard Miles that everything, if I can use the vernacular,
is hunky dory between the US and Australia.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
So this meeting would be nice.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But as Albanizi also points out that as of now,
we've got the lowest tariff impositions of any country on Earth.
So you know, meeting Trump doesn't seem to be a
condition for getting on well enough with the United States.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And let's talk a little about the Republican's Paul because
in the lead up to this General Assembly, there was
this letter that was released by twenty five Republican members
for Congress, and it was warning Australia and the French
and the Canadians and the British of possible reprisals if
they went ahead to recognize the Palestinian state. So how
(11:48):
should we interpret that kind of threat?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Well, first of all is bluster and menace. And then
we have to have a look at who's making this threat,
And they're twenty five MAGA Republicans members of Congress, who
by the way, aren't all that happy with Trump over
his failure to release all the Epstein files. So they're
the sort of people making these threats. Then you have
(12:11):
to say, well, what are you going to do. You've
already got tariffs on all your major trading partners, making
goods and services dearer in America.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What are you going to.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Do to Australia. You need Australia more than we need
you in terms of security alliances, Pine Gap and other
arrangements like that. And furthermore, even though America already has
got tariffs on our beef because the American cattle herd
is down, they've been importing far more beef than they
(12:42):
had for years and paying a higher price for it.
This is just rubbish. It also shows that Australia is
prepared to be more independent in its foreign policy, and
to do so based on its own understanding of what's
in our our national interest, and I would say what's
(13:03):
in our moral worldview.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And returning to recognition of Palestinian statehood. If this move
is about putting pressure on both the United States and
Israel to stop the war in Gaza, to date, both
countries have only dug in further, So, do you think
that Israel and the US can continue to ignore this pressure?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, look, you'd have to say all the signs are
that they will continue to ignore it. That then brings
us back to what we were discussing earlier. What will
Australia and the other major nations in Europe do to
bring even more pressure on Israel to stop the catastrophic
slaughter that's going on in Gaza.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, Paul, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Thank you, Ruby bye.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Also in the news today, Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi will
for the first time address the UN General Assembly this
week in place of Foreign Minister Penny Wong, who's delivered
Australia's remarks to the UN in previous years. The Prime
Minister will present Australia's emissions target of a sixty two
to seventy percent reduction on two thousand and five levels
by twenty thirty five, as well as host of forum
(14:29):
to promote Australia's social media ban for under sixteens and
The Australian Media and Communications Authority has begun its investigation
into last week's Optus Triplo outage that's been linked to
multiple deaths in South Australia and Western Australia. The outage
resulted in the failure of more than six hundred emergency
calls over thirteen hours, during which time three people are confirmed.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
To have died.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Communications Minister Anika Wells says Optus will face significant consequences.
I'm Ruby Jones, an I am see you tomorrow.
I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven am. Prime
Minister Anthony Albanezi is in New York for the UN
General Assembly, where Australia has formally recognized the State of Palestine,
a step that more than one hundred and fifty UN
member states have now taken. The move is part of
(00:22):
what Australia calls a coordinated international effort to build new
momentum for the two state solution, but with no active
peace process, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Ettnia, who vowing to
fight calls for Palestinian statehood, and the US attempting to
scuttle the process. How much difference will recognition make? Today
(00:43):
Press Gallery veteran pauporn Jorno on whether Australia and others
can shift the positions of Washington and Israel. It's Tuesday,
September twenty three, So Paul. Prime Minister Anthony Albernezi. He's
(01:04):
in New York right now for the UN General Assembly,
and during his visit he officially announced Australia's recognition of
the state of Palestine.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Today. I'm pleased to be here with Minister Wong to
announce her effective today Sunday the twenty first of September
two thy and twenty five, the Comwealth of Australia recognizes
the State of Palestine.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
We of course knew that this was coming, but still,
how significant is a moment.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Like this, Well, I've got to say it's highly significant
on a number of fronts. The first point to be made,
I believe, is that have to recognize who is doing
this recognizing, and it's three of the Five Eyes Nations.
Now these are the nations who have not only security
but intelligence sharing arrangements with the United States of America. So,
(01:52):
in other words, the three of the foremost trusted US
allies have put their signature to a call for the
recognition of the Palestinian state, saying enough is enough.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
And this recognition being announced today in sinc with our
international partners, the United Kingdom and Canada, means that three
of the Five Eyes Nations are all making this decision today.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And furthermore, the only way that we can end this
seventy seven year old cycle of violence is to finally
do what the United Nations wanted in nineteen forty eight,
and that is recognize a Palestinian state.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
We recognize the legitimate, unlong held aspirations of the people
of Palestine of a state of their own, and in
doing so we reaffirm Australia's long standing position of two states.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Now the three five partners will be joined by other
friends of the United States and by the way of
Israel in the next two days. Of course, is a
key nation. It's already put its hand up. It will
be joining the formal recognition at the UN in the
next twenty four hours. Two years ago, these nations, including Australia,
(03:13):
were very wary of criticizing Israel, very aware that the
atrocities of Hamas gave Israel initially, if you like, a
certain moral ascendancy. But the way in which Israel has
waged the war against the Palestinians in Gaza is beyond
the pale. And I think that what this recognition shows
(03:37):
is that Australia and other countries will be less restrained
in their criticism of Israel, and it does open the
way for further sanctions against Israel if it doesn't comply.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And all of these countries moving to recognize a Palestinian state,
they say that this moment, this recognition, it has to
be part of a peace process. But as it stands
that doesn't exist, there is no peace process. So knowing that,
can this really be any more than a symbolic.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Gesture, Well, it is certainly a symbolic gesture, but it
has a weight to it and in a sense it
also puts pressure on the people making this symbolic gesture
to do more. And this is a point, for example,
that the Australian Greens picked up on Monday, saying okay,
you've done this. Now you've got to apply sanctions. Now,
(04:30):
you've even got to stop supplying parts for the Israeli
war jets you know that are bombing Gaza. So there's
pressure coming now back on Australia and the other New
states calling for the recognition of Palestine to do more
if this gesture, if this symbol doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And Israel is racing to make sure that there is
as little as possible physically left on the map to
actually form the basis of a state of power at Steyne,
and Benjamin Nettniaho has said that there will be no
Palestinian state to the west of the Jordan River at Mahnikido, and.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
I have another message for you. It will not happen
a Palestinian state will not be established west of the
Jordan River. For years, I have prevented the establishment of
this terrorist state, despite tremendous pressure both domestically and internationally.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So does the idea of a two state solution reflects
the reality of what's happening on the ground now.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
It certainly doesn't reflect a reality of what's happening on
the ground now with Nettin Yahoo, who, by the way,
doesn't have it all his own way, even in Israel.
As Anthony Albernizi has said on Monday in a number
of interviews, hundreds of thousands of Israelis are against what
their own government has done in the past two years,
(05:52):
but more particularly.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
What it is doing now.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So Nettin Yahoo, certainly, while he and his extremeist minister
are still in power, will do everything they can to
thwart the two state solution, and in fact have been
doing so for over a decade. But I just remind
you that what a state of Palestine should look like
is not exactly a mystery. The idea could well be
(06:16):
that we go back to the nineteen sixty seven borders.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
Certainly we wouldn't go back.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
To the borders and visited back in nineteen forty eight,
and there is a precedent for this. Yeshtuk Rabin, who
you might remember, in nineteen ninety three, signed the Oslo
Accords on the south lawn of the White House. I
was lucky enough to be there to witness it along
with other Australian journalists. With the Palestinian leader Arafat. He
(06:44):
agreed to trade what was called land for peace, in
other words, to give back to the Palestinians the land
that settlers at that stage had taken.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
Today we bear wedness to an extraordinary act in one
of history's defining dramas, a drama that began in the
time of our ancestors, when the word went forth from
a slaver of land between the River Jordan and the
Mediterranean Sea.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Now we have to make a note here that Rabin
paid his life for doing that. An extreme Israeli shot
him for making these sorts of concessions to the Palestinians.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
And it's not just Israel against this. Of course, the
US seem to attempt to scuttle the whole process before
it began. It was denying the visas of eighty Palestinian officials,
including the Palestinian President Mahmuda Bus. So tell me what happened.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Well, it's quite simply, as you outlined, the US State
Department refused to let Macmuda Bus and his party into
the United States.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
As we know, the United.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Nations is on the East River in New York, and
this move is very rarely done because part of the
agreement of America hosting the United Nations is that it
will allow people to carry out their duties at the
United Nations, including by the way in the past Soviet
leaders and in the present people like Putin.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
It'll be interested to see if they do the same
to him.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
But there is no doubt this is to express the
United States opposition to the Palestinian authority having any say
in any settlement and to deny, as far as it can,
any sort of peace process and recognition going forward.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Well, the United Nations.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
And indeed the Palestinian authority got around this by the
UN agreeing to allow a Bus to address the Assembly
virtually on a big video screen, so that in itself
sends a message that in this issue, at this point
of time, Israel and the United States are paro nations internationally.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
After the break, the Republicans trying to intimidate Australia to
back down on Palestine. Paul, there had been signs that
Anthony Aberzi would meet with Trump on this visit to
the US, but it hasn't happened yet. Is it likely today?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, Anthony Auberanzi's pretty relaxed about it. He says there
will be a meeting and Ruby. The word around Canberra
was that Albanzi and Trump had agreed to a face
to face meeting on Sunday, a US time, but the
President of course had to cancel that to attend the
funeral of the right wing commentator Charlie Kirk.
Speaker 6 (09:50):
And so on that terrible day September tenth, twenty twenty five,
our greatest evangelist.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
For American liberty became immortal. He's a minyr now for
American freedom.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
The President is holding a reception in New York on Tuesday,
American time. I believe there's almost two hundred world leaders there.
So if Albertiz gets to meet him, he did say
in one interview I heard on Monday that he'd be saying,
get a nice to meet you personally. But he has
made the point that even in the last ten days
he's had a warm foam discussion with the President. He's
(10:29):
not too worried about it. The Prime Minister says, it's
a media obsession. It's one being pushed particularly by the
Murdoch media and of course by the opposition. But the
real touchstone is that the Australian American relationship in the
broadest sense is on a pretty firm footing. Trump has
said this to Albanezi, and we do know from the
(10:53):
trip that Richard Miles, the Deputy Prime Minister, made to
America three weeks ago that the Secretary of State Rubio
assured Richard Miles that everything, if I can use the vernacular,
is hunky dory between the US and Australia.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
So this meeting would be nice.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
But as Albanizi also points out that as of now,
we've got the lowest tariff impositions of any country on Earth.
So you know, meeting Trump doesn't seem to be a
condition for getting on well enough with the United States.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
And let's talk a little about the Republican's Paul because
in the lead up to this General Assembly, there was
this letter that was released by twenty five Republican members
for Congress, and it was warning Australia and the French
and the Canadians and the British of possible reprisals if
they went ahead to recognize the Palestinian state. So how
(11:48):
should we interpret that kind of threat?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Well, first of all is bluster and menace. And then
we have to have a look at who's making this threat,
And they're twenty five MAGA Republicans members of Congress, who
by the way, aren't all that happy with Trump over
his failure to release all the Epstein files. So they're
the sort of people making these threats. Then you have
(12:11):
to say, well, what are you going to do. You've
already got tariffs on all your major trading partners, making
goods and services dearer in America.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What are you going to.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Do to Australia. You need Australia more than we need
you in terms of security alliances, Pine Gap and other
arrangements like that. And furthermore, even though America already has
got tariffs on our beef because the American cattle herd
is down, they've been importing far more beef than they
(12:42):
had for years and paying a higher price for it.
This is just rubbish. It also shows that Australia is
prepared to be more independent in its foreign policy, and
to do so based on its own understanding of what's
in our our national interest, and I would say what's
(13:03):
in our moral worldview.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And returning to recognition of Palestinian statehood. If this move
is about putting pressure on both the United States and
Israel to stop the war in Gaza, to date, both
countries have only dug in further, So, do you think
that Israel and the US can continue to ignore this pressure?
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Well, look, you'd have to say all the signs are
that they will continue to ignore it. That then brings
us back to what we were discussing earlier. What will
Australia and the other major nations in Europe do to
bring even more pressure on Israel to stop the catastrophic
slaughter that's going on in Gaza.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Well, Paul, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
Thank you, Ruby bye.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Also in the news today, Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi will
for the first time address the UN General Assembly this
week in place of Foreign Minister Penny Wong, who's delivered
Australia's remarks to the UN in previous years. The Prime
Minister will present Australia's emissions target of a sixty two
to seventy percent reduction on two thousand and five levels
by twenty thirty five, as well as host of forum
(14:29):
to promote Australia's social media ban for under sixteens and
The Australian Media and Communications Authority has begun its investigation
into last week's Optus Triplo outage that's been linked to
multiple deaths in South Australia and Western Australia. The outage
resulted in the failure of more than six hundred emergency
calls over thirteen hours, during which time three people are confirmed.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
To have died.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Communications Minister Anika Wells says Optus will face significant consequences.
I'm Ruby Jones, an I am see you tomorrow.
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