August 10, 2025 • 15 mins
In May this year, Kumanjayi White died after being restrained by police inside a supermarket in Alice Springs. Just weeks later, the coroner released her findings into the fatal police shooting of Kumanjayi Walker, who was killed in Yuendumu in 2019.
Both men were Warlpiri, and both died after encounters with Northern Territory police.
Jampijinpa Hargraves is Kumanjayi White’s grandfather – and a Warlpiri elder who has also spoken on behalf of Kumanjayi Walker’s family. He says the system that failed them is still failing Aboriginal people across the Territory.
Today, Jampijinpa Hargraves on life under the watch of police, the pressure of systems that were never made to protect his people – and what real safety would look like.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: Warlpiri elder Jampijinpa ‘Ned’ Hargraves.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am.
In May this year, Kamanjai White died after being restrained
by police inside a supermarket in Alice Springs. Just weeks later,
the coroner released her findings into the fatal police shooting
(00:22):
of Kamanjai Walker, who was killed in Yundamu in twenty nineteen.
Both men were war Prix and both died after encounters
with the Northern Territory Police. Jappa Jipper Hargraves is Kamenjai
White's grandfather and a war Prialdo who has spoken on
behalf of common Joe Walker's family too. He says the
system that failed them is still failing Aboriginal people across
(00:44):
the territory today. Japi Jipper Hargraves on life under the
watch of the police, the pressure of systems that were
never made to protect these people, and what real safety
would look like. It's Monday, August the WEBN Jumping GIP.
(01:09):
But thank you for speaking with me on seven AM.
To start with, could you please tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah. Look, my name is Ned Hargraves, JUMPINGGINBA. I'm a
world pery man. I'm a spokesman as well as I'm
my community leader of my people, my community and I
live west of Alice Prince.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He may this she your grandson. Kamenji White died in
police custody.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Twenty four year old Kumajai White was a young Indigenous
man with a disability. Police say he was seen putting
shopping items down the front of his clothing when he
was confronted and restrained by police. Many at this rallies say.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
The actions, what has been the impact on you and
your community?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
While the community as well as my family, we have
been devastated because my judge, my grandson was only twenty four,
a young person. We were just getting to know the world.
So we have been disrespected. Yuper people, yuper nation, yep
(02:25):
of First Nation people. We are human beans and we
want to be treated as human beings. So any place
can kill kill any Black famos and forget about what
they did and walk away pretend that's nothing happened. Is
(02:47):
not acceptable. You got hundreds and hundreds of our mob,
a young men, young women in prison behind bus, So
why is it this person behind bus? Why is so
(03:08):
special about this bloke? Like you said your grandson Kunja White.
I was twenty four when he died in police custody.
What can you tell us about your grandson? Well, he
was he was a happy person, always active, wanted to
go to places, see places and be with the family,
(03:31):
mingled with countrymen. Look around and you know you wanted
to do something. But he was strangled because of one thing,
one little small thing, and his life was taken just
for a cook a bottle of coke.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
He's been twenty five years since the Rural commissign into
Aboriginal deaths in custody. In that time, at least six
hundred and five First Nations people have died in custody,
with twenty deaths this year alone, according to the government's
own figures. Despite Tyler's calls from the community for change,
the issue was getting worse, with the numbers of men,
(04:18):
women and children dying in custody only increasing when his
grandson died jumping. Jibba had been waiting for the coronial
findings and the death of Komenjo Walker, a Woldbury teenager
who was killed six years ago by Northern Territory police
officer Zachary Rolf. A jury with no First Nations people
(04:39):
on an acquitted Rolph of murder. Just over a month ago,
the coronial report investigating Walker's death was finally handed down.
It confirmed what his community has said all along, that
Zachary Rolf was racist and that his actions were enabled
by the culture within the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Having considered all the evidence, including mister Rolfe's explanations and justifications,
I found that mister rolf was racist and that he
worked in and was the beneficiary of an organization with
hallmarks of institutional racism.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Could you tell me about the day those findings were
handed down into the death of kemen Joe Walker? What
was going through your mind? And were happy with what
the coroner recommended. She has recommended certainly the things that
(05:36):
we asked her to do and to find and she'd
done a good job. She'd done a really good job.
I must thank her for that. She said it clear.
She said it clear.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That the biggest, the biggest discrimination discrimination as well as
you know, the racists in the police, because they were
telling the police, even the big buses of theirs, they
were saying that it's okay, it's okay, you're doing a
(06:13):
good job. Keep doing it, keep going like this.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
In the absence of appropriate oversight, mister Rolph's tactics were
tacitly and sometimes expressly approved. The failure of anti police
to properly supervise mister Rolf or to reign him in,
contributed to a sense of impunity with which he approached
his work as a police officer and emboldened his approach.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's got to stop, and this is why we're calling
on the Prime Minister to come in, to step in
and clean up the mess and turn it around. We
as a first nation people and our children do not
(07:02):
need to be in fear. There is no need to
be in fear. After the break A message to the
Prime Minister. I remember Japan Jeeper after Zachary Ralph was
(07:31):
found not guilty. You're saying outside the court that you
want no guns across the Northern territory.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Why gun?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
No guns?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
No guns in the Rowal remote community when I want
no guns?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Enough is he not?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But since then even more money has been poured into
police in remote communities. What would you like to see
instead of guns? What would you like to see from
police instead of carrying guns everywhere?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If they if they were not coming to my community.
I personally would like to see please take off their
guns and come to a community. Come. You are welcome,
But until that happens, you are not welcome because we
(08:43):
do not feel safe when you're wearing guns. I've said
to the acting Commissioner, I want to talk to you.
There are things that needs to be discussed and we
feel right now we want those guns to be dropped,
(09:08):
and I think the corner has said something about that.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I've recommended that the anti police engaged directly with the
leadership groups to develop mutual respect agreements, including when it
would be appropriate for police not to carry firearms in community.
And I've made other reas.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
She made it very clear you can only wear guns
if it's necessary. If it's necessary, and I want to
say this if the police want to say sorry, because
we don't trust any anyone, any of the police anyone.
(09:55):
We do not trust them.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Can you describe what life is like now and you're
in the mood, how repeated tragedies have changed what it
means to feel safe and secure in your own community.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I'll tell you this. We're still afraid of them around
with guns. We feel not safe and our children when
they see those guns, they are frightened, scared and what
(10:28):
has happened to my grandson has made it worse, has
made the community feel uncomfortable. My grandson, Jajah, he wasn't
a angry little man who was happy, always doing things,
(10:49):
want to go to places, and he was disability. He
didn't deserve it. We feel until the day that the
police put down the guns, then we will negotiate, we
(11:10):
will work with them.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You've written to the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi asking him
to intervein. What would you like to say from the
federal government in the Northern Territory. I might you know
as well as I know where it all starts and
where it should end. First thing that we want to
(11:36):
see the action from the Prime minister. We are begging
the Prime Minister to come and clean up. Well, here's
a job. We have voted for him, the majority of
our nation people have voted him and this is one
(11:59):
of the one of the big jobs. One of the
first thing that he needs to do is to fix up,
clean up the mess. We have suffered and lost too
many of our countrymen, of our mob. We're still losing
(12:22):
our people. It has to stop. You and your community
have been in a state of constant grief for years. Now,
what would it take to go some way towards healing
the pain?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes, we as you know we are. We are constantly
devastated as well as we mourning, which is can't take
it any longer. But the only person that can actually
help us is the Prime Minister. We need him to
(13:08):
come back to our community, to yer Moore, or we
should go to him and talk to it. Yes, we
have warning still morning right across because we cannot live
like this day to day, year after year. We cannot
(13:34):
do this. We need his attention, Japi. Thank you so
much for your time, appreciate it. Night.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Thank you. Also in the news, Tasmanian Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe
(14:09):
has announced his end government support of the greyhound racing industry.
The move will effectively end the industry in Tasmania by
twenty twenty nine, and comes as Rockcliffe works to secure
the support of cross benches after the recent snap election
delivered a hung parliament. A Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski has
rejected the idea his country will give up plan to
(14:31):
end the war in Ukraine at the US President Donald
Trump's set a peace deal with Russia could include some
swapping of territories. Over the weekend, leaders of several European
nations issued a statement welcoming Trump's efforts, but also reaffirming
their support for Ukraine and saying the path to peace
cannot be decided without Ukraine. Donald Trump is due to
(14:51):
meet with the Russian President of Vladimir Putin in Alaska
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven Am.
In May this year, Kamanjai White died after being restrained
by police inside a supermarket in Alice Springs. Just weeks later,
the coroner released her findings into the fatal police shooting
(00:22):
of Kamanjai Walker, who was killed in Yundamu in twenty nineteen.
Both men were war Prix and both died after encounters
with the Northern Territory Police. Jappa Jipper Hargraves is Kamenjai
White's grandfather and a war Prialdo who has spoken on
behalf of common Joe Walker's family too. He says the
system that failed them is still failing Aboriginal people across
(00:44):
the territory today. Japi Jipper Hargraves on life under the
watch of the police, the pressure of systems that were
never made to protect these people, and what real safety
would look like. It's Monday, August the WEBN Jumping GIP.
(01:09):
But thank you for speaking with me on seven AM.
To start with, could you please tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah. Look, my name is Ned Hargraves, JUMPINGGINBA. I'm a
world pery man. I'm a spokesman as well as I'm
my community leader of my people, my community and I
live west of Alice Prince.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
He may this she your grandson. Kamenji White died in
police custody.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Twenty four year old Kumajai White was a young Indigenous
man with a disability. Police say he was seen putting
shopping items down the front of his clothing when he
was confronted and restrained by police. Many at this rallies say.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
The actions, what has been the impact on you and
your community?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
While the community as well as my family, we have
been devastated because my judge, my grandson was only twenty four,
a young person. We were just getting to know the world.
So we have been disrespected. Yuper people, yuper nation, yep
(02:25):
of First Nation people. We are human beans and we
want to be treated as human beings. So any place
can kill kill any Black famos and forget about what
they did and walk away pretend that's nothing happened. Is
(02:47):
not acceptable. You got hundreds and hundreds of our mob,
a young men, young women in prison behind bus, So
why is it this person behind bus? Why is so
(03:08):
special about this bloke? Like you said your grandson Kunja White.
I was twenty four when he died in police custody.
What can you tell us about your grandson? Well, he
was he was a happy person, always active, wanted to
go to places, see places and be with the family,
(03:31):
mingled with countrymen. Look around and you know you wanted
to do something. But he was strangled because of one thing,
one little small thing, and his life was taken just
for a cook a bottle of coke.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
He's been twenty five years since the Rural commissign into
Aboriginal deaths in custody. In that time, at least six
hundred and five First Nations people have died in custody,
with twenty deaths this year alone, according to the government's
own figures. Despite Tyler's calls from the community for change,
the issue was getting worse, with the numbers of men,
(04:18):
women and children dying in custody only increasing when his
grandson died jumping. Jibba had been waiting for the coronial
findings and the death of Komenjo Walker, a Woldbury teenager
who was killed six years ago by Northern Territory police
officer Zachary Rolf. A jury with no First Nations people
(04:39):
on an acquitted Rolph of murder. Just over a month ago,
the coronial report investigating Walker's death was finally handed down.
It confirmed what his community has said all along, that
Zachary Rolf was racist and that his actions were enabled
by the culture within the Northern Territory Police.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Having considered all the evidence, including mister Rolfe's explanations and justifications,
I found that mister rolf was racist and that he
worked in and was the beneficiary of an organization with
hallmarks of institutional racism.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Could you tell me about the day those findings were
handed down into the death of kemen Joe Walker? What
was going through your mind? And were happy with what
the coroner recommended. She has recommended certainly the things that
(05:36):
we asked her to do and to find and she'd
done a good job. She'd done a really good job.
I must thank her for that. She said it clear.
She said it clear.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
That the biggest, the biggest discrimination discrimination as well as
you know, the racists in the police, because they were
telling the police, even the big buses of theirs, they
were saying that it's okay, it's okay, you're doing a
(06:13):
good job. Keep doing it, keep going like this.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
In the absence of appropriate oversight, mister Rolph's tactics were
tacitly and sometimes expressly approved. The failure of anti police
to properly supervise mister Rolf or to reign him in,
contributed to a sense of impunity with which he approached
his work as a police officer and emboldened his approach.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
It's got to stop, and this is why we're calling
on the Prime Minister to come in, to step in
and clean up the mess and turn it around. We
as a first nation people and our children do not
(07:02):
need to be in fear. There is no need to
be in fear. After the break A message to the
Prime Minister. I remember Japan Jeeper after Zachary Ralph was
(07:31):
found not guilty. You're saying outside the court that you
want no guns across the Northern territory.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Why gun?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
No guns?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
No guns in the Rowal remote community when I want
no guns?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Enough is he not?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But since then even more money has been poured into
police in remote communities. What would you like to see
instead of guns? What would you like to see from
police instead of carrying guns everywhere?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
If they if they were not coming to my community.
I personally would like to see please take off their
guns and come to a community. Come. You are welcome,
But until that happens, you are not welcome because we
(08:43):
do not feel safe when you're wearing guns. I've said
to the acting Commissioner, I want to talk to you.
There are things that needs to be discussed and we
feel right now we want those guns to be dropped,
(09:08):
and I think the corner has said something about that.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I've recommended that the anti police engaged directly with the
leadership groups to develop mutual respect agreements, including when it
would be appropriate for police not to carry firearms in community.
And I've made other reas.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
She made it very clear you can only wear guns
if it's necessary. If it's necessary, and I want to
say this if the police want to say sorry, because
we don't trust any anyone, any of the police anyone.
(09:55):
We do not trust them.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Can you describe what life is like now and you're
in the mood, how repeated tragedies have changed what it
means to feel safe and secure in your own community.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I'll tell you this. We're still afraid of them around
with guns. We feel not safe and our children when
they see those guns, they are frightened, scared and what
(10:28):
has happened to my grandson has made it worse, has
made the community feel uncomfortable. My grandson, Jajah, he wasn't
a angry little man who was happy, always doing things,
(10:49):
want to go to places, and he was disability. He
didn't deserve it. We feel until the day that the
police put down the guns, then we will negotiate, we
(11:10):
will work with them.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
You've written to the Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi asking him
to intervein. What would you like to say from the
federal government in the Northern Territory. I might you know
as well as I know where it all starts and
where it should end. First thing that we want to
(11:36):
see the action from the Prime minister. We are begging
the Prime Minister to come and clean up. Well, here's
a job. We have voted for him, the majority of
our nation people have voted him and this is one
(11:59):
of the one of the big jobs. One of the
first thing that he needs to do is to fix up,
clean up the mess. We have suffered and lost too
many of our countrymen, of our mob. We're still losing
(12:22):
our people. It has to stop. You and your community
have been in a state of constant grief for years. Now,
what would it take to go some way towards healing
the pain?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yes, we as you know we are. We are constantly
devastated as well as we mourning, which is can't take
it any longer. But the only person that can actually
help us is the Prime Minister. We need him to
(13:08):
come back to our community, to yer Moore, or we
should go to him and talk to it. Yes, we
have warning still morning right across because we cannot live
like this day to day, year after year. We cannot
(13:34):
do this. We need his attention, Japi. Thank you so
much for your time, appreciate it. Night.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Thank you. Also in the news, Tasmanian Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe
(14:09):
has announced his end government support of the greyhound racing industry.
The move will effectively end the industry in Tasmania by
twenty twenty nine, and comes as Rockcliffe works to secure
the support of cross benches after the recent snap election
delivered a hung parliament. A Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski has
rejected the idea his country will give up plan to
(14:31):
end the war in Ukraine at the US President Donald
Trump's set a peace deal with Russia could include some
swapping of territories. Over the weekend, leaders of several European
nations issued a statement welcoming Trump's efforts, but also reaffirming
their support for Ukraine and saying the path to peace
cannot be decided without Ukraine. Donald Trump is due to
(14:51):
meet with the Russian President of Vladimir Putin in Alaska
on Friday.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
I'm Daniel James. This is seven am.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.