November 17, 2025 • 14 mins
Last week, the Victorian government stunned even its own MPs – announcing laws that will allow children as young as 14 to be tried in adult courts and face life sentences.
The proposal was rushed into Cabinet with no warning – ministers were given just minutes to read it before the meeting began.
Only a year ago, Labor promised to raise the age of criminal responsibility. Now, in response to tabloid outcry, it’s taken a sharp turn – following Queensland and adopting ‘adult time for adult crime’.
Today, CEO of the Victorian Aboriginal Legal Service, Nerita Waight, on how the Premier’s new laws could devastate vulnerable kids – and what it says about the kind of state Victoria is becoming in a time of Treaty.
Daniel James has worked with the First People's Assembly of Victoria and the Victorian government on Treaty-related matters.
If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support.
Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram
Guest: CEO of the Victorian Aboriginal Legal Service, Nerita Waight
Photo: AAP Image/James Ross
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A week ago in the evening, the readA wait. It
was getting ready for a momentous occasion.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Because the following day in the afternoon, I would be
signing as an Assembly member Victoria, in fact Australia's first treaty.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
The reader was a Yorda order and marrying jurywoman. She's
a member of the First People's Assembly of Victoria and
Treaty co Convena. She's also the CEO of the Victorian
Aboriginal Legal Service. That night, as she prepared for the
day ahead, her phone rang. It was Victoria's Attorney General
ringing to let her know that the government was set
to announce new laws that would allow children as young
(00:36):
as fourteen to be tried in adult courts and face
life sentences.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So it is a very unique circumstances which should be
advised that Victoria is going to proceed to lock up children,
some for life. When you are looking forward to something
that was supposed to be transformative, that was supposed to
feel that Victoria was ushering in a new era, and
(01:02):
then to be somewhat slap in the face by rather
regressive action, it leaves you reeling. Daniel.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The proposal was rushed in the Cabinet with little warning.
Ministers were given just minutes to read it before the
meeting began. Only a year ago, Labor promised to raise
the age of criminal responsibility. Now in response to tablot
Ourt cry, it's taking a sharp turn, following Queensland and
adopting adult time for adult crime. If it goes ahead,
(01:31):
it means more First Nations children would be locked up
in Victoria than ever before.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Their lives are on the line. These are children that
won't receive any hope of a future. They're going to
spend the remainder of their childhood, Daniel, in a prison cell.
They're going to spend their early adulthood in a prison cell.
And as we know, the more you entrenched child in
the criminal legal system, the more often they are likely
(01:56):
to be caught up in a cycle of offending.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM today
Nriita wait on how the premier's new laws could devastate
vulnerable kids and what it says about the kind of
state Victoria is becoming in a time of treaty. This Tuesday,
November eight e Naurita, thank you so much for joining us.
(02:29):
Can you describe exactly what these new youth justice reforms
will allow and why you and the Victorian Aguinal Legal
Service see them as such a dangerous change.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to note that
these so called reforms were done without consultation with anyone
in the sector. This appears to have been dreamed up
by a cabinets of working group comprising of the Premier,
the Attorney General, the Corrections Minister and the Minister for Police.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I today want to acknowledge, as Premiere that everyone of
these violent youth crimes has a victim, a family that
has had their life disrupted, a person that was shaken,
a person who was hurt, and we are all horrified
by these violent, brazen youth crimes and the devastating impact
(03:20):
they have on its victims.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
What they've decided to do is that children aged fourteen
to seventeen years old found guilty of committing aggreda burglary,
of aggreta carjacking could be sent to a life in
prison that is literally equivalent to murder.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
There are too many victims and not enough consequences. It's
why Victoria will introduce adult time for violent crime, where
the courts will treat children for these crimes like adults,
where jail will be more likely and sentences will be longer.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
The government also planned to send children who allegedly commit
a fe including aggravated and an aggravated home invasion and carjacking,
to the county court rather than the Children's court, who
are the specialist when it comes to dealing with children.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Currently in the children's court, thirty four percent of children
and young people sentenced for aggravated home invasion or aggravated carjacking.
For those offenses, thirty four percent go to jail. When
those offenses are before the county court, the adult court,
ninety seven percent go to jail.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And this means that children are going to have a
very alienating experience within the court. They're going to be
seen by a judge who has no idea how to
interact with children, no idea about the complexities in which
these children are often suffering under other traumas, the neglect
often by the state in fact, but also often the
(04:53):
fact that these children are very very young, Daniel, these
are not people who are equivalent to an ad don't
making a decision, they have very low executive function, and
it's just absolutely horrific that we have decided that deprivation
of property is equal to costing someone their life.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So what do these laws mean for the children you
represent three, your legal service, and for the absoinal community
more broadly?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, I mean look, after hearing that news Tuesday night,
I went back and looked at our Blittano lou clients
and blatnall lose our specific option of children's legal service,
and these reforms Daniel will affect two thirds of our
clients two thirds. This for us is really difficult to
(05:42):
swallow because when we see these kids, we know that
they are young people with disability. They're young people who
have been coursively forced to engage in risk taking and
offending behaviors. Young people who are and whose families are
entrenched in poverty, young people who have often been removed
from their families care before. Therefore, and those who have
(06:03):
been found at the state at every step in their lives,
they don't have an anchor Daniel. Often enough, they be
moved from place to place. There's no consistency in their education,
no consistency in their supports, there is no stability for them,
and that's how they get caught up in these behaviors
and sometimes you know, Daniel's not people who are actively
participating in the crime. Sometimes they're just being coerced to
(06:26):
be a lookout. But they will still be charged if
they had done the carjacking themselves or the home invasion.
Right now, when this is in Victoria's history, the first
time that we've had such high imprisonment rates of Abiginal people,
we are only going to increase that trend. We're not
(06:48):
doing anything to detract from it. There is no investment
in early prevention diversion, there is no investment in alternative responses.
All Victoria knows how to do is be cruel and
unforgiving and put people in jail.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Cell coming up how to stop violent crime without locking
up more kids, the government says this is about community
safety and making sure that there are serious consequences for
(07:20):
serious crimes. And it's coming in response to the fact
that in Victoria, youth crime is sparking. Crime is committed
by children are up by almost eighteen percent, and children
are overrepresented in serious and violent crimes like robbery and
aggravated burglaries and car theft. So what would a good
response to arise in youth crime look like.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And good response to youth crime is one that is holistic,
that takes a right space approach rather than a punity
of one. So that's prioritizing prevention, welfare, addressing the root
causes of offending. It means making sure that children have
easy access to neurosycs, to social resu wellbeing care, to healthcare.
(08:08):
They have access to education, they have access to activities
and an ability to create healthy relationships because these are
also children Daniel who spent many years cycling through COVID
lockdowns and as part of their formative development didn't really
develop those healthy relationships or cohesive social networks. And in
(08:30):
terms of acknowledging that there is a problem, of course
there is Daniel, and this has happened in other countries.
You can see what happened in Scotland many years ago.
They were having similar problems and what they did instead
was treated as a public health issue, an input into
early prevention and diversion, input into holistic and integrated therapeutic
(08:51):
support because they understood wrapping around a child rather than
putting in a sulm throwing where the key was the answer.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You've played an integral role in negotiating Australia's first treaty.
I know it for a fact. What does this announcement
say to you about the government's preparedness to work seriously
with Aboriginal communities to address three causes of crime?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Look for me, it was incredibly difficult to sign that
treaty Wednesday night because the state had an opportunity here Daniel,
to act in good faith with the treaty. At an
earlier point, they could have decided to engage with the sector,
to engage with Aboriginal voices and experts, to implement long
(09:35):
term solutions to make sure that we will all be safe. Instead,
they chose to contradict early on the principles of the
treaty and take their own unforgiving and disastrous path. What
I will say is that I would hope that the
next First People's Assembly, which they'll take their positions on
(09:56):
the first of May twenty twenty six, will util all
of the powers and functions of all three arms of
the Going Wall to not only ensure that they are
taking our concerns and our kiosks to government, but that
we are holding them accountable for their poor decision making.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Given that can the Aboriginal community have any faith in
the government's commitment to treaty when it does something like this.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
At the same time, can I say that I think
there's a difference between Aboriginal community having faith in their
own representatives utilizing the treaty to advocate and create transformational change,
as compared to them having faith that the Victorian government
will at all times out in accordance with the treaty.
(10:45):
If we believe that to be true in any instance,
then we wouldn't have created Ningma Nunya Wara as the
accountability mechanism. We wouldn't make sure that we had the
ability to represent in Cabinet, to engage with Parliament, to
press weighed them, to engage in the juty, to consult
to create these good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And finally, Narita, what do you want Victorians to understand
about the kind of state we're becoming if these reforms
go ahead?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I think to understand the state we're becoming, it's
good to take you to a specific example, and the
one that comes to mind for me is Lily. So.
Lily was charged with aggravated burglary and aggravated home invasion.
They were charged with these violent offenses despite only playing
a secondary role, so basically being a lookout Daniel. She
(11:36):
was particularly vulnerable, as many young children of contact with
the youth just system are for things like we mentioned earlier, disability,
mental health care protection. Our lawyers were able to strongly
advocate for her and to keep her out of youth's
detention and the charges were reduced. She then received a
sentence which didn't include spending the rest of her life
(11:57):
in prison, and baalistic legal and social supports were put
in place by Blitna Lou which meant that she was
diverted from the criminal legal system and Lily hasn't had
any further contact with the legal system. If Lily was
charged under these proposed new laws, her matter will be
(12:20):
heard in the county court, not the children's court, not
with the experts. She would then have been exposed to
an adult jurisdiction which lacks understanding and protective factors for children,
and also its sentencing is motivated by punishment not rehabilitation
like this within the children's court, and she would have
undoubtedly been subjected to further harms which come from the
(12:41):
imprisonment of children. That instance should show you that we
are on the path to not only being cruel and unforgiving,
but to ensuring that it is our children who pay
for the state's mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Narita, thank you so much for speaking of this.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Not a problem, Daniel.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Also in the news, Donald Trump says Republicans should vote
to have the Epstein files released to the public, a
major reversal of position for the US president. Members of
Congress are set to vote this week and where the
files related to the convicted sex offender should be published.
The President had spent months trying to convince his colleagues
not to vote for their release, but as more Republicans
(13:44):
look set the break with his order, Trump reverse course,
saying it's time to move on from this Democrat hoax
and Susan Leezy will not lose focus on her role
for one minute, as Poland showed her ratings preferred Prime
Minister at just ten percent, compared with Anthony Benezi, who
was at forty percent. In the wake of scrapping that zero,
the Liberal Party has received its worst polling since federation,
(14:07):
with One Nation experiencing a surge to a record high
of eighteen percent. We'll have a foot report on the
rise of One Nation and what it means for the
country tomorrow. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks
for listening.
A week ago in the evening, the readA wait. It
was getting ready for a momentous occasion.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Because the following day in the afternoon, I would be
signing as an Assembly member Victoria, in fact Australia's first treaty.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
The reader was a Yorda order and marrying jurywoman. She's
a member of the First People's Assembly of Victoria and
Treaty co Convena. She's also the CEO of the Victorian
Aboriginal Legal Service. That night, as she prepared for the
day ahead, her phone rang. It was Victoria's Attorney General
ringing to let her know that the government was set
to announce new laws that would allow children as young
(00:36):
as fourteen to be tried in adult courts and face
life sentences.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
So it is a very unique circumstances which should be
advised that Victoria is going to proceed to lock up children,
some for life. When you are looking forward to something
that was supposed to be transformative, that was supposed to
feel that Victoria was ushering in a new era, and
(01:02):
then to be somewhat slap in the face by rather
regressive action, it leaves you reeling. Daniel.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
The proposal was rushed in the Cabinet with little warning.
Ministers were given just minutes to read it before the
meeting began. Only a year ago, Labor promised to raise
the age of criminal responsibility. Now in response to tablot
Ourt cry, it's taking a sharp turn, following Queensland and
adopting adult time for adult crime. If it goes ahead,
(01:31):
it means more First Nations children would be locked up
in Victoria than ever before.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Their lives are on the line. These are children that
won't receive any hope of a future. They're going to
spend the remainder of their childhood, Daniel, in a prison cell.
They're going to spend their early adulthood in a prison cell.
And as we know, the more you entrenched child in
the criminal legal system, the more often they are likely
(01:56):
to be caught up in a cycle of offending.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm Daniel James and you're listening to seven AM today
Nriita wait on how the premier's new laws could devastate
vulnerable kids and what it says about the kind of
state Victoria is becoming in a time of treaty. This Tuesday,
November eight e Naurita, thank you so much for joining us.
(02:29):
Can you describe exactly what these new youth justice reforms
will allow and why you and the Victorian Aguinal Legal
Service see them as such a dangerous change.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to note that
these so called reforms were done without consultation with anyone
in the sector. This appears to have been dreamed up
by a cabinets of working group comprising of the Premier,
the Attorney General, the Corrections Minister and the Minister for Police.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I today want to acknowledge, as Premiere that everyone of
these violent youth crimes has a victim, a family that
has had their life disrupted, a person that was shaken,
a person who was hurt, and we are all horrified
by these violent, brazen youth crimes and the devastating impact
(03:20):
they have on its victims.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
What they've decided to do is that children aged fourteen
to seventeen years old found guilty of committing aggreda burglary,
of aggreta carjacking could be sent to a life in
prison that is literally equivalent to murder.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
There are too many victims and not enough consequences. It's
why Victoria will introduce adult time for violent crime, where
the courts will treat children for these crimes like adults,
where jail will be more likely and sentences will be longer.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
The government also planned to send children who allegedly commit
a fe including aggravated and an aggravated home invasion and carjacking,
to the county court rather than the Children's court, who
are the specialist when it comes to dealing with children.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Currently in the children's court, thirty four percent of children
and young people sentenced for aggravated home invasion or aggravated carjacking.
For those offenses, thirty four percent go to jail. When
those offenses are before the county court, the adult court,
ninety seven percent go to jail.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
And this means that children are going to have a
very alienating experience within the court. They're going to be
seen by a judge who has no idea how to
interact with children, no idea about the complexities in which
these children are often suffering under other traumas, the neglect
often by the state in fact, but also often the
(04:53):
fact that these children are very very young, Daniel, these
are not people who are equivalent to an ad don't
making a decision, they have very low executive function, and
it's just absolutely horrific that we have decided that deprivation
of property is equal to costing someone their life.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So what do these laws mean for the children you
represent three, your legal service, and for the absoinal community
more broadly?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Yeah, I mean look, after hearing that news Tuesday night,
I went back and looked at our Blittano lou clients
and blatnall lose our specific option of children's legal service,
and these reforms Daniel will affect two thirds of our
clients two thirds. This for us is really difficult to
(05:42):
swallow because when we see these kids, we know that
they are young people with disability. They're young people who
have been coursively forced to engage in risk taking and
offending behaviors. Young people who are and whose families are
entrenched in poverty, young people who have often been removed
from their families care before. Therefore, and those who have
(06:03):
been found at the state at every step in their lives,
they don't have an anchor Daniel. Often enough, they be
moved from place to place. There's no consistency in their education,
no consistency in their supports, there is no stability for them,
and that's how they get caught up in these behaviors
and sometimes you know, Daniel's not people who are actively
participating in the crime. Sometimes they're just being coerced to
(06:26):
be a lookout. But they will still be charged if
they had done the carjacking themselves or the home invasion.
Right now, when this is in Victoria's history, the first
time that we've had such high imprisonment rates of Abiginal people,
we are only going to increase that trend. We're not
(06:48):
doing anything to detract from it. There is no investment
in early prevention diversion, there is no investment in alternative responses.
All Victoria knows how to do is be cruel and
unforgiving and put people in jail.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Cell coming up how to stop violent crime without locking
up more kids, the government says this is about community
safety and making sure that there are serious consequences for
(07:20):
serious crimes. And it's coming in response to the fact
that in Victoria, youth crime is sparking. Crime is committed
by children are up by almost eighteen percent, and children
are overrepresented in serious and violent crimes like robbery and
aggravated burglaries and car theft. So what would a good
response to arise in youth crime look like.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And good response to youth crime is one that is holistic,
that takes a right space approach rather than a punity
of one. So that's prioritizing prevention, welfare, addressing the root
causes of offending. It means making sure that children have
easy access to neurosycs, to social resu wellbeing care, to healthcare.
(08:08):
They have access to education, they have access to activities
and an ability to create healthy relationships because these are
also children Daniel who spent many years cycling through COVID
lockdowns and as part of their formative development didn't really
develop those healthy relationships or cohesive social networks. And in
(08:30):
terms of acknowledging that there is a problem, of course
there is Daniel, and this has happened in other countries.
You can see what happened in Scotland many years ago.
They were having similar problems and what they did instead
was treated as a public health issue, an input into
early prevention and diversion, input into holistic and integrated therapeutic
(08:51):
support because they understood wrapping around a child rather than
putting in a sulm throwing where the key was the answer.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
You've played an integral role in negotiating Australia's first treaty.
I know it for a fact. What does this announcement
say to you about the government's preparedness to work seriously
with Aboriginal communities to address three causes of crime?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Look for me, it was incredibly difficult to sign that
treaty Wednesday night because the state had an opportunity here Daniel,
to act in good faith with the treaty. At an
earlier point, they could have decided to engage with the sector,
to engage with Aboriginal voices and experts, to implement long
(09:35):
term solutions to make sure that we will all be safe. Instead,
they chose to contradict early on the principles of the
treaty and take their own unforgiving and disastrous path. What
I will say is that I would hope that the
next First People's Assembly, which they'll take their positions on
(09:56):
the first of May twenty twenty six, will util all
of the powers and functions of all three arms of
the Going Wall to not only ensure that they are
taking our concerns and our kiosks to government, but that
we are holding them accountable for their poor decision making.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Given that can the Aboriginal community have any faith in
the government's commitment to treaty when it does something like this.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
At the same time, can I say that I think
there's a difference between Aboriginal community having faith in their
own representatives utilizing the treaty to advocate and create transformational change,
as compared to them having faith that the Victorian government
will at all times out in accordance with the treaty.
(10:45):
If we believe that to be true in any instance,
then we wouldn't have created Ningma Nunya Wara as the
accountability mechanism. We wouldn't make sure that we had the
ability to represent in Cabinet, to engage with Parliament, to
press weighed them, to engage in the juty, to consult
to create these good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
And finally, Narita, what do you want Victorians to understand
about the kind of state we're becoming if these reforms
go ahead?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I think to understand the state we're becoming, it's
good to take you to a specific example, and the
one that comes to mind for me is Lily. So.
Lily was charged with aggravated burglary and aggravated home invasion.
They were charged with these violent offenses despite only playing
a secondary role, so basically being a lookout Daniel. She
(11:36):
was particularly vulnerable, as many young children of contact with
the youth just system are for things like we mentioned earlier, disability,
mental health care protection. Our lawyers were able to strongly
advocate for her and to keep her out of youth's
detention and the charges were reduced. She then received a
sentence which didn't include spending the rest of her life
(11:57):
in prison, and baalistic legal and social supports were put
in place by Blitna Lou which meant that she was
diverted from the criminal legal system and Lily hasn't had
any further contact with the legal system. If Lily was
charged under these proposed new laws, her matter will be
(12:20):
heard in the county court, not the children's court, not
with the experts. She would then have been exposed to
an adult jurisdiction which lacks understanding and protective factors for children,
and also its sentencing is motivated by punishment not rehabilitation
like this within the children's court, and she would have
undoubtedly been subjected to further harms which come from the
(12:41):
imprisonment of children. That instance should show you that we
are on the path to not only being cruel and unforgiving,
but to ensuring that it is our children who pay
for the state's mistakes.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Narita, thank you so much for speaking of this.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Not a problem, Daniel.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Also in the news, Donald Trump says Republicans should vote
to have the Epstein files released to the public, a
major reversal of position for the US president. Members of
Congress are set to vote this week and where the
files related to the convicted sex offender should be published.
The President had spent months trying to convince his colleagues
not to vote for their release, but as more Republicans
(13:44):
look set the break with his order, Trump reverse course,
saying it's time to move on from this Democrat hoax
and Susan Leezy will not lose focus on her role
for one minute, as Poland showed her ratings preferred Prime
Minister at just ten percent, compared with Anthony Benezi, who
was at forty percent. In the wake of scrapping that zero,
the Liberal Party has received its worst polling since federation,
(14:07):
with One Nation experiencing a surge to a record high
of eighteen percent. We'll have a foot report on the
rise of One Nation and what it means for the
country tomorrow. I'm Daniel James. This is seven am. Thanks
for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.