The Nun’s Skeleton PT 1

In this week's first part of a two-part episode, Kate and Paul head to 1970 Baltimore where a teacher at an all-girl’s Catholic high school goes missing. After some suspicious accounts by the reporting members of the same church, the scope of the case increases. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the
last twenty five years writing about true crime.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's
worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most
compelling true crimes, and.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring new
insights to old mysteries.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime
cases through a twenty first century lens.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
This is buried bones.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey, Kate, how are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I'm exhausted. Do you know what happened yesterday? You don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Let me read your mind here?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
So yesterday my fourth book came out. I can't even
believe I have a first number one book that ever
came out, let alone a fourth, My fourth one came
out yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I don't know how you do that? How do you
write so many books?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's a drive I have you and I've talked about it.
It's also a fear, a fear because I'm, you know,
the main breadwinner. In my family. So I'm driven by
fear and love of writing, and then back to fear,
I would say, back to fear. But it's been a
really great experience. You know, this is we're well, first
of all, welcome back because we're back from winter break

(01:45):
and it's been such a whirlwind for me because of
this book. But you know, did you have some good holidays?
I hope I missed you.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, you know, I visited my parents out in Hawaii.
That's a tough time to travel between Christmas and New
Year's out to Hawaii. But yeah, definitely was a good time.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Wow. Well that's great. I'm going to be doing some
traveling I hope in the Northeast for this book. You
are featured, my friend prominently in the book because it
is very buried Bones esque. Do you remember me talking
to you, like a year ago or more about the
case of the woman in eighteen thirty two hanging from

(02:24):
a haystack pole on a rural farm in New England?
You remember that? Does that ring a bell to you?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
That is ringing a bell?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
So you were so helpful for me because this book,
it's called The Sinner's All Bow. It is a case
from eighteen thirty two about a woman who was a
member of a Methodist church. She's got some secrets that
she has kept, and she is found by a farmer
one day, as I said, hanging from a haystack pole.
And the question is whether this was murder or suicide.

(02:54):
If it is murder, who did it? There are certainly suspects,
including a minister from the church, the Methodist church where
she was. You know, I think one of the things
that I do that I've never done before is I'm
reinvestigating this case from eighteen thirty two. Does that seem
like I'm really up a creek here already? Have you
ever investigated a case from eighteen thirty two?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Oh? No, you know, but it's like any cold cases,
you have to work with what you got, right, Yeah,
And I think with something from eighteen thirty two, obviously
no one is ever going to get criminally charged, And
so I think you can be a little bit looser
in terms of maybe some assumptions that you have to make,

(03:37):
or even some speculation you need to do to fill
in some of the holes and the investigation, so to speak.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, and this was a very very important case. What
I ended up doing which was very interesting and unique
for me. Was I ended up working with another journalist,
which I've never really done before. But this was a
journalist who reported on this case and wrote a book
on the case in eighteen thirty three. So I'm using

(04:04):
her notes, I'm using the book that she wrote, talked
to her descendants, and we are investigating this case. Catherine
Williams and I together more than one hundred years after
she died. Wow, it's been such a great experience for me.
She spoke to all the family members, she you know,
interviewed witnesses, she interviewed the corner. She had really great

(04:28):
notes and just really great thoughts. The problem was she
really hated the Methodists. They were pretty different than they
are now. They were really wild, and they had tent
revivals that were crazy, and they were seen, as you know,
like seducing young women. So she was very clearly biased,
which is very important to not be in journalism as

(04:49):
much as we can. So taking her notes, reading her assessment,
now you have to take all that with a grain
of salt. We're all humans. And then I, you know,
of course, leaned in on you for my twenty first
century perspective along with toxicologists and other experts. I talked
to a not expert, you know, people who could really
give me some insight. And I hired a handwriting analyst,

(05:12):
which I had never done before.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Oh interesting, which.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Was incredibly helped. It was amazing. She gave me a
full chart and she led me to some really good
conclusions about this story. The most interesting part is that
I think is that this was the inspiration for Nathaniel
Hawthorne to write The Scarlet Letter. So this is the
story of the real Hester Print. I'm going to take
a wild stab and say you've never read The Scarlet Letter, that.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
You think that's a wild stab?

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Is that a lock?

Speaker 2 (05:40):
That is a lock. I am not one to read
the so called classics.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
We've talked about that before. I'm not going to go
down that road, that sad road. The Scarlet Letter is
an incredible book, and so Sarah Cornell is the real
Hester Print. And I think when you see the parallels
of the story of the woman who wears the a
and is publicly humiliated and everything that goes into that,
I think we just learn a lot about our lives now,

(06:07):
how we view women, how much has changed, how much
has stayed the same. So I'm super excited to have
this book come out in the dead of winter, ready
to roll starting a new year. And this book gives
me so much great joy, and I'm really grateful that
you were able to be a part of it. Paul.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Hey, no, I appreciate you including me as part of
the book. You know, I, of course I think it's
the best book ever.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
You got that from me. I asked you to give
a recommendation for a good little like a little thing
to say about the book, and you said you would say,
the best book ever. Thank you, Paul. I appreciate that,
and to reward you, I am going to offer you
one of the most complicated, hefty, tragic cases I think
we've ever covered on this show in the several that

(07:00):
we've had this show on. It is a two parter.
It is something that warranted a series, a TV series,
and it was a really big case. And I'll see
what you think about it. It's really something, all right,
Bring it on, Okay, let's set the scene. I am
going to listeners, tell you where this story came from,

(07:22):
because many of you probably have heard about the case
or saw the TV series, and I'm going to see
if Paul has seen the series or heard about this case,
and then I'm going to give you some caveats. So
if that weren't cryptic enough, here I go. This is
the story that is based on the TV series The Keepers.
Did you ever see that, Paul?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I did not, though I do remember seeing it being advertised,
I believe.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
So it's the story of a Catholic nun who was
murdered in nineteen sixty nine at a all girls Catholic
high school in Baltimore. Does that case? Does that ring
a bell? Kathy says, nope, not at all. I'm going
to disclose something right from the beginning, especially if people
have read about this case or have seen The Keepers.
It was a really difficult series for me to watch,

(08:11):
and it involves very, very graphic accounts of rampant sex
abuse at this all girls Catholic high school by male priests.
I am not going to go through all of that.
I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that there
are several men who are main characters that we'll be

(08:32):
talking about, who sexually abused young women at this high
school and frankly at other places where they had been before.
So I am not going to go through all of that.
I am going to avoid graphic terms that I really
we could talk about, because what I want to focus
on is the probability that our victim was murdered, and

(08:54):
she was murdered because she knew about this abuse, because
there are many other suspects in this but that is
a viable route to go down. So I considered when
I was going to do this story, I was going
to say, well, if he doesn't know the story, I
was telling myself this, If Paul doesn't know the story,
then I'll reveal all the sex abuse that happens. I

(09:15):
just don't want people who know this case to be
fearful that I'm going to disclose a lot of details.
There was stuff in our research packet that I just
cut loads out of because I just don't want to
go through all of that. So just know this is documented.
This abuse happened, and it could have been a motive
for why this woman ended up dead. But there are
a lot of other motives too. So let's get going here.

(09:38):
We're in Baltimore in nineteen sixty nine, and as I
said before, this involves a Catholic all girls high school
called Archbishop Keio High School. The keepers, you know, along
with a lot of the other resources that were used here,
does an excellent job digging up a lot of sources,
a lot of witnesses. I will warn you, Paul, this

(09:59):
is very heavy with witnesses. I mean there is little
to know forensics. Of course, I say that, and then
sometimes you're like, you don't know what you're talking about.
There's lots of forensics. You said that a couple of episodes.
I'm never going to forget that. But this really, at
first blush for me, is really witness heavy, so you know,
and contradictory stuff. So know that going in. Does that

(10:21):
make you nervous about cases in general where everything seems
to rely on eyewitnesses or ear witnesses or you know,
memories that are fuzzy from years before and there's not
a lot else.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
No, Yeah, I think the more witnesses that you have
that are able to provide details, as long as there's
a contamination between the witnesses, you know, they're not getting
together and collaborating before being interviewed, it gives greater confidence
in terms of Okay, the details that each of these
witnesses are able to provide must be correct. Having you know,

(10:53):
worked cases particularly like Golden State Killer, where you know
you have this huge case and of witnesses, I've seen
where information can be misconstrued and can lead the investigation
down the wrong path. That's where I'm always wanting to
see that objective physical evidence such as the DNA, you know,

(11:14):
if you're dealing with trying to place somebody at a
certain you know, at a certain location or with a
particular victim. But it sounds like in this case it's
in a high school, So I'm assuming that you have
a lot of witnesses either students, teachers, religious authorities that
are all present within this structure.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yes, there are a lot of people at the high school,
and the victim in our case, sister Kathy, has a
very wide circle of people she's exposed to. But the
night that she disappears gets complicated. So let's jump into this.
It's a Friday night, November seventh, nineteen sixty nine. There
is a woman who is a nun named Sister Helen
Russell Phillips. We will call her Sister Russell. That's how

(11:57):
she went. She's worried because it's close to midnight and
her roommate who is her close friend is another nun
named sister Kathy, Saysnick. And that's our victim. Kathy, Saysnick.
She's not home, and she's left the house around seven
to do some shopping in a nearby shopping center. And
there's no way this woman, this nun, is out until midnight,

(12:19):
beside the fact that she said, you know, I'll be
home shortly. They know each other really well. Sister Russell
is even more concerned because she knows of Kathy's you know,
character and everything in her habits. They both teach at
the all girls Catholic High School. Sister Kathy and Sister
Russell are currently taking off this school year because they're

(12:40):
on like a church sanctioned leave of absence from none life.
And this year they're teaching at a public high school.
So sister Kathy at either school is popular and young.
She's an English teacher, her student's lover. So you know,
all of this is to say that this is not
a what you would call a quote unquote high risk victim.
All it's midnight and a nun is not back home

(13:03):
when she should be already.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
All right, remind me where does sister Kathy go that evening.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
She's doing a little bit of shopping at a nearby
shopping center, so she's not far off. But it's night,
you know, it's November. It's probably gotten dark early. Let's
go back a little bit because right now sister Russell
is worried and she's sort of reviewing what happens earlier
in the day. So let's just talk about what we

(13:31):
know about what happened earlier before we figure out where
she disappeared and why she disappeared. So earlier in that day,
there was a student named Juliana Farrell, and she is
lingering for a few minutes after English class to talk
to sister Kathy. Sister Kathy says she's about to go
buy a present for her sister who just got engaged.

(13:51):
So that's part of the shopping trip is to get
this engagement present. After school, about three o'clock, we know,
sister Kathy goes back to her apartment. This is a
complex of garden apartments with several three story buildings, and
about seven o'clock, Kathy leaves her apartment and drives to
the bank, and she goes to a bakery where she

(14:12):
buys some dinner roles and she goes to a shopping
center called the Edmundson Village Shopping Center, So we have
witnesses all over the place who kind of track her
in a way. It's good to know with this timeline.
According to one witness, she goes back to her apartment
building and parks her car in its normal parking space,
but she never enters the building. This witness says that

(14:35):
she saw Kathy sitting in the parking lot in her
car until eight thirty. So you know, between seven o'clock
and eight thirty, she's out shopping and sister Russell is
sitting at home, you know, waiting for her to come back,
which would have eight to thirty would have been reasonable.
But one witness says that she sees Kathy sitting in
her car in the normal parking spot outside the apartment,

(14:57):
not going back in and saying, hey, how's it going,
you know, sister Russell. So we know somebody saw her
who knew her sitting in the car. This is a
neighbor who was going back and forth unloading bags of
grocery and bringing them up to her own apartment. So again,
if this witness is correct, then Kathy had driven her
own car back to the complex and parked it. We

(15:20):
don't know what she was doing in the car, according
to this one witness, but there are lots of people
so far who were talking.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah. So this this neighbor, does she indicate over what
span a time she sees Kathy sitting in her own car.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
It sounds like to me the amount of time was.
However many trips it took for her to go, this
woman to go back and forth taking her groceries from
the car to her own apartment. I would imagine it's
just a few minutes. I don't think it was a
long time, sure, you know, I mean, I don't think
that she thought there was anything unusual about it, So
it wasn't alarming. So she was unloading.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Groceries, okay, And I was just kind of curious if
this this witness, you know, like later in the evening,
looked out and saw Kathy still sitting a car. Doesn't
sound like that's the.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Case, No, I don't think so. So let me tell
you about their apartment complex. Their apartment is on the
ground floor, up a few outdoor steps from the parking lot,
and then through a little gate to an outdoor hallway
with a couple of other doors. So plenty of single
women live on ground floor apartments. They scare me to death,
but obviously that increases vulnerability. I know that in this case,

(16:25):
it doesn't sound like she even made it into her apartment,
but there's still that that. I'm sure there wasn't security really,
and you know they're on the ground floor already. I
feel a little bit vulnerable for both of those women.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Of course, with the ground floor, whether it be an
apartment or a house, you know, you have multiple access
points and an offender could potentially enter the residence or
observe the victims where they are at within the residence,
So there is an increased level of vulnerability. You're correct.

(17:00):
In this case, does Kathy make it back into her
apartment or no?

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Nope, she never makes it back in that we know of,
you know, I mean, sister Russell's sitting there at home
waiting on her. So more witnesses, Paul. There is a
young woman who's a sophomore, and she is near Kathy's
apartment complex. She's just a few blocks away. Sometime that evening,
she couldn't give an exact time. She and her friend,
who also went to the same high school where Kathy

(17:28):
taught are in the area. They hear a very loud
sound that this witness describes as a man yelling coming
from the direction of sister Kathy's complex. We don't know
when this happened. That's all they heard. That might not
have anything to do with this story. I'm pretty sure
you're about to say, right.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, you know, right now, it's just a random observation
ear witness. And this is where if there's corroboration with
other witnesses within the apartment complex, then it becomes a
little bit more significant.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, Okay, now we get complicated because now we get
more characters. So you know, for now we had just
had Sister Russell and Sister Kathy. Now we're going to
get into more of the inner workings of this old
girls Catholic High school. At eleven o'clock, Sister Russell is
really worried because this is way out of her character.
At midnight, she finally calls someone, but it's not the police.

(18:24):
She calls a priest named Father Jerry kob and he's
good friends with Sister Kathy. So Father Jerry lives in Annapolis, Maryland,
which is about thirty miles away. He has a friend
who they refer to as Brother Pete McKeon, who is
with him that evening. So Brother Pete is a Christian brother,
a layman who participates in the church. These two men

(18:46):
are at dinner, they go see Easy Rider. They go
back to Jerry's house in Annapolis at about ten thirty
and they sit and talk about this movie for a
few minutes, and then they get the call from Sister
Russell that Kathy hasn't come home yet, and you know,
of course the police eventually we'll talk to Jerry. And
it sounds like Sister Russell is asking if these two

(19:07):
men have seen Kathy. Everybody's friends, you know, and Jerry
and Pete McKeon said they haven't seen her, and now
they're worried. So they drive the thirty miles to Sister
Russell and Sister Kathy's place. Jerry says that they talked
to Sister Russell for about an hour before they call
the police at one am. This all seems late. I

(19:29):
hate judging people when they call police late. But she
was starting to worry around it seems like ten o'clock
and they waited until one am, and she's deferring to
this male priest.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I think when I think about Sister Russell's actions
and calling Father Jerry, I'm wondering did she even look
out in the parking lot to see if sister Kathy's
car was present?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Doesn't sound like it.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
And part of Sister Russell's actions may be attributed to
maybe the culture within the Catholic church. You know, this father,
this priest who's a friend of Sister Kathy, may be
seen as somewhat of an authority figure and she's looking
for guidance from Father Jerry. However, it is odd if
she's that worried reaching out to somebody who's thirty miles

(20:16):
away versus trying to figure out, you know, where is
sister Kathy. You know, if Kathy has gone over to
Father Jerry's place, then Kathy would have driven her car
there and a you know, a simple glance out into
the parking lot would answer that question.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not sure why she decided to
call them first. Maybe we'll have some more information later.
In the Netflix series that came out in twenty seventeen,
the Keeper's sister, Kathy's younger sister Marilyn, calls brother Pete
so he's eighty five in twenty seventeen, and he says,

(20:55):
you know that they drove together to sister Kathy's from Annapolis,
and you know they come and they talk to sister
Russell for a while. Now we get into the evidence.
So the police come. They're there, they don't apparently see
her car, which we've been thinking about. The police officer
takes down sister Kathy's information and leaves. At about four o'clock.

(21:18):
The men are still at the apartment. So this is
Jerry and Pete. They go for a walk and directly
across the street from her apartment, they see her car
and it looks out of place, and I have a
photo of it. It's parked by the side of the
road at a corner and the back of the car
is sticking out past the corner into the perpendicular street.

(21:41):
And there are some weird details about it. So it's
a nineteen sixty nine Ford Maverick and the driver's side
door is unlocked. Now, do you want to see a
photo or do you want me to tell you the
weird stuff they found inside?

Speaker 2 (21:55):
No, I want to see the photo. But it sounds
like Kathy's car has now been moved at some point
after the neighbor who is unloading groceries saw the car
parked in the normal spot.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You got it, good interpretation, Okay, let me show it
to you. Hang on hopefully this is a good angle.
It's a good photo. There's the car parked illegally, and
then you see her apartment.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, look at that. Okay, So I'm looking at a photograph.
The car is in the foreground with the front of
the car facing the photographer, and then in the backdrop
is Kathy's apartment complex, and there is a red X
showing the location of her apartment in that complex. In

(22:37):
between the car and the apartment complex appears to be
a road. And so this vehicle, this Ford Maverick, which
is Kathy's, has pulled onto it looks like a driveway
or an entrance to another building. But it hasn't pulled
all the way off the road. So the trunk side

(22:58):
of Kathy's car is somewhat jutting out into this roadway.
This obviously is not a normal way for the vehicle
to be parked. It looks like somebody in haste abandoned
this vehicle.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yep, I think that's a good description. Let me tell
you what they found on the inside, which is really interesting,
really weird. I would say, the driver's side door is unlocked,
and these two men open it. They're not police officers,
they're not wearing gloves. They just look at it. They
open it. They see a twig hanging from the left
side of the steering wheel, and father Jerry says, it

(23:34):
looks like the twig has been tied to the turn signal.
The whole car is full of leaves and twigs, and
the tires are muddy. It clearly looks like it has
been in a muddy, swampy area, which is not anywhere
around the apartment complex. And there's mud on the gas
pedal but not on the brake pedal. And eventually investigators

(23:55):
are going to wonder if the driver of the car
drove with both fees or what happened. So what do
you think about this layout in general? I was a
little confused about the twig tied to the turn signal
and the steering wheel. Why would somebody do that?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, first, I think, you know, addressing the soil the
mud as well as the vegetation. That's significant anytime I
am processing a crime scene. Of course, I'm looking for
evidence that places, let's say, the offender at that crime scene,
but I'm also looking to see what's at that crime

(24:31):
scene that the offender could have taken with them. It's
a two way street in terms of physical evidence transfer.
So this vehicle has mud and vegetation that is not
from the location we're found. So after Cathy was seen
by the neighbor in her parking space, this vehicle has

(24:53):
gone to a separate location, and of course now has
brought this mud and this veget with it back to
across the street from the apartment complex. So I'm going
to be paying a lot of attention to that evidence.
Is there anything about this vegetation or the soil that

(25:15):
I can use to figure out where this vehicle went?
Is there something unique about it? You know, And I've
processed vehicles where I'm not just restricting myself to vegetation
and soil. I'm looking at bugs on the windshield or
in the grill. Are there insects that could be from
a very specific area that can help place that vehicle

(25:38):
at that location? Pallen out of the air filter, you know,
if you have things that are being trapped within the
air filter, So there's so much that could potentially be done.
The twig tied around the turn signal, you know, I
would want to see a photo of that. Was this
a purposeful act, you know? Or was this just something

(25:59):
that randomly occur because whoever's now sitting inside this vehicle
has maybe this vegetation stuck to sleeves and the twig
just gets wrapped around as the person is driving. Or
is this a mechanism to keep the turn signal on,
to keep the turn signal off? You know? Right now,
it seems pretty vague, But if it's purposefully tied, any

(26:23):
time an offender does something, especially if it's not to
get away with committing a crime, you have to pay
attention to that.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think it's unclear. Father Jerry is the one who's
saying this. He's the source, you know, who looked at it,
and he says it looked like it had been tied.
But we're not seeing anything from investigators, and I haven't
seen a photo. So let's say that the police are
now interested that Jerry and Pete are the ones who
found this car, and it sounds like, you know, sister

(26:52):
Russell had never looked to see if the car were
there or not. It's right across the street. They give
Pete and Jerry polygraph exam, which we know how we
feel about that, and they pass. I know how they
feel about that. They have ticket steps from easy Rider,
but there's no eyewitness. I don't know if anybody even
knew them. So sounds kind of squishy as they're each
other's alibi. But you know, at the same time, we

(27:15):
don't know of a motive just yet for what would happen.
We don't even know where she is at this point.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, but aren't Jerry and petd with Sister Russell in
the apartment till four am? They are, yes, okay, so
they can aliby each other out. But they also Sister
Russell who's saying, well, they were here.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
She called them at eleven pm. They arrived probably forty
five minutes later to an hour later. They're only thirty
miles away, and they call the police at one So
she disappears way before them. So in theory, they could
have driven up, taken her, killed her, gone back to Annapolis,
and then gotten the call from Sister Russell worried, and
then gone back.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, the neighbor who's seeing Kathy sitting in her car.
That was around eight thirty, right.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Correct, yep.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Yeah, So now we basically have this this time gap.
Kathy is last seen at eight thirty. Law enforcement arrives
at one thirty. So assuming that Kathy is you know,
she's reported missing and she's not still sitting in her
car in the parking lot, there's that three hour window
that something happened to Kathy. And then now you've got

(28:22):
Jerry and Pete showing up. What time do they get
to Kathy's apartment?

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Sister Russell calls them an eleven I mean I would
bet eleven forty five to midnight, and they don't call
the police until one doesn't sound like they went outside
until four am, and that's when they make the discovery
of the car.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And assuming that they are in Annapolis with a thirty
minute drive to sister Russell's place, now we have this
eight thirty to roughly eleven thirty gap in which we
can't necessarily alibi Jerry and Pete out because as you
mentioned before, they're kind of in cohoots with the each other.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Right, So we have another witness. So remember we had
the teenage girl, the sophomore who said she heard a
man scream kind of in the direction. That could have
been anything, though, and she couldn't even give an accurate time. Ye.
So there's a witness who says that they saw a
man driving Kathy's car that evening and Kathy was in
the passenger seat. According to this witness, it looked like

(29:23):
she was trying to get out of the car. This
sounds like the only person who said this, And we
don't have a lot of information about this person, even
if it's a male or a female. I think it's
just another person that had information for the police.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
No, but it's it's critical information because it's matching up
with the circumstances. You know, Kathy was seen alone in
her car. She never makes it into her apartment. We
know the car has been moved. We know there had
been somebody inside that car and they had gone to
a different location. Based off of the mud and the soil,

(29:57):
I would say the kind of the physical level evidence
that we have is at least in line with what
this witness seeing a man driving the car and Kathy
trying to get out of it, Which adds up because
we know Kathy is a victim. I'm putting some weight
on that observation.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Well, the police assign a detective named Lewis Romer. Everybody
calls him Bud, so I'll just say Detective Bud, Baltimore.
So the next few days we've got thirty five people
and five dogs scaring the area. They cannot find sister Kathy.
So Detective Bud gets this case. He immediately says, it

(30:34):
is bizarre that sister Russell calls Jerry and Pete and
not the police. They all gather together and it's several
hours before they even bother to call the police. And
of course these are the two men who discover Kathy's
car and contaminated in whatever way they might have contaminated it.
They are suspicious of Jerry. Bud pulls him in, but

(30:56):
before they can really press him, representatives from the Baltimore
Archdiocese come in and basically convince the police to release
Father Jerry and stop looking in that direction of the church.
How would that even happen? What kind of pressure could
the archdiocese put on the police to stop them from

(31:17):
looking at a potential suspect and a woman who's gone missing.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
That is odd. There's no way law enforcement would cave
to something like that under normal circumstances, I would speculate
that there is some sort of political aspect that the
archdiocese leveraged over this detective's bosses. Basically, you know, back

(31:45):
off or we're going to withdraw our support, We're going
to withdraw you know, being donors to your campaign or whatever,
whatever the relationship is. There is something shady about that
from my perspective.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Oh gosh, we'll get ready. There's a lot more shadiness
from the police. First, let's talk about the forensics. So
there's a reporter for the Baltimore Son named Robert Earlinson.
He says the police had always insisted that there was
no forensic evidence that could be recovered from sister Kathy's car.
So what anyway, I mean, I know, give me a break.

(32:20):
Let me tell you what they do bother to find
They find the dinner rules that she had bought that afternoon.
They find evidence that she had cashed a paycheck for
two hundred and fifty five dollars, But it doesn't sound
like they found money, and they don't find whatever this
gift was that she bought for her sister. So there's that.
So I guess it could have been robbery, But the

(32:42):
mud part of it seems really weird. Right, if you're
gonna rob someone, you're just gonna take the stuff and go.
You're not gonna drive him to a muddy area and
then the person's gone missing.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
You know, the offender probably had multiple crimes in mind.
You know, first you've got a woman who is isolated,
and then the offender gets in the vehicle and sees
that there's some assets that he can take with him.
Who knows what the initial intent was, but fundamentally Kathy
and her car are taken away, and then the car

(33:13):
is returned without Kathy. It seems like Kathy is the target.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Well, things get even weirder. Kathy's sister, Marilyn, is in college.
About a week after Kathy disappears, she gets a letter
in her mailbox at the dorm and it's from her sister.
A week after she disappears, she calls her dad, who
is a postal worker, and he says, don't open it
in case there could be some kind of evidence in

(33:38):
the letter, and to read the postmark aloud to him
over the phone, and the parsmark says November eighth, the
day after Kathy was last seen. It was sent from Baltimore,
which is where she lived. Marilyn calls the police. Okay,
the Baltimore police, the ones that we think are sketchy already,
and a man who is not wearing a uniform comes

(34:00):
to pick up this letter. She tells her dad that
he wasn't wearing a uniform and he says, this is
probably a detective. Could have been Bud, I don't know.
She never finds out what was in the letter. And
when this is reinvestigated in the mid twenty tens, Marilyn
goes to the Baltimore police and says, can I see
this letter? And they said, we've lost it. Probably I
don't know where it is. So the day after she

(34:23):
disappears and it's postmarked and it says it's from Kathy,
and the letter's gone. So there's no handwriting analysis or
DNA or anything.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
In terms of the postmark. And this is where I
would be, you know, talking to postal inspectors. Think about
mailing something from whether it be from your house or
from you know, the standalone mailboxes. You know, the letter
goes in and then it's in there for a period
of time. Now, if the letter went in, let's say
November seventh, when Kathy whose whereabouts were known, but the

(34:55):
postman has already picked up the mail from that mailbox,
then that letter is going to be postmarked the next
day when the postman picks it up, and it now
gets through the mailing system. So that's where I'm looking
at this postmark. And I'm not necessarily agreeing with the
idea that Kathy mailed this the day after she went missing.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Okay, well that's good to know. So that is another
thing that was one big mystery. Who is the person
in the plain clothes that came and picked this up?
We don't know. Now we have some information about one
of our two suspects. The only suspects we have of
is of right now, so that is father Jerry and
brother Pete. Ultimately, it comes out that sister Kathy and

(35:43):
Father Jerry were more than friends. They were in love.
At least that's what father Jerry says. He says that
he wanted sister Kathy to not take her final vows
and he was not going to become ordained to be
a priest. They were both at early stages in their
career when these things would have happened. He wanted to
marry her. She said no to marriage, but there are

(36:08):
lots of letters, and it sounds like she really loved him.
She was conflicted. It sounded like when they search Jerry's apartment,
the police find a letter dated November third, which is
four days before Kathy disappeared. She says, you know, I
love you and I want to marry you and have children,
four days before she disappears. And now we have a
priest turned boyfriend in the mix of all of this.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yeah, and was sister Russell a confidant.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
Of Kathy's It sounds like it. So now, Paul, we're
going to circle back to why did she call him
instead of the police, And now I think we know
why because she would have likely been with him most likely.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah. No, that's making a little bit more sense to me.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
And if there is this written proof of Kathy's emotional
attachment to Jerry, you know, then okay, here we've got
some victimology. And it sounds like, you know, initially when
you said Kathy had spurned you know, then it's like, okay,
now do we have motive? But it seems like the
last correspondence Kathy is expressing that she wants to be Witcherry.

(37:10):
She wants to have kids with Cherry, and that would
be what he wants. So from that relationship perspective, it
doesn't appear that that would be motive. But that was
November third, and she goes missing November seventh. Was there
any interactions between these two where things went sideways?

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Not that sister Russell has indicated. Okay, it doesn't seem
like it. So the last interaction that we know of
between these two was positive. Now we're going to go
down a little bit of a different road, only briefly,
because we have another disappearance. So four days after sister
Kathy disappears, so this is November eleventh, there's another young

(37:53):
woman who disappears under similar circumstances. This woman's name is
Joyce Malecky. She's twenty years old, and her body was
found on federal land and the case ends up being
handled by the FBI. We don't know much about this
information yet, but we will know more later on. So

(38:13):
she went missing and then her body was found. You know,
just know that the press has really attached itself to
this because now you have two women kind of the
same demographic, you know, attractive young women who have disappeared
within days of each other, and one's found murdered. Now
we're going to find the other one. So sister Kathy
is found finally. So she went missing November seventh. She

(38:37):
is found two months later, January third of nineteen seventy.
She's found in a small dump and landsdown in southwest
Baltimore County. She's found lying on her back about twenty
yards away from the road. This is not a well
known place, and people say you would have to be
very familiar with the area to even know where it is.
She's found with her skirt pulled up and her shirt open.

(39:01):
She's found in an area that a local would have
had to have known about. And I believe I have
kind of a photo of the area. I'm not sure how.
I don't know. It's a dump. So you want to
see the photo or do you want to hear more
autopsy stuff? First?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
No, let me see the photo because I kind of
when you say dump, is this like a landfill area?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, it's literally a dump. Okay, So you see Kathy's body.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
So I'm looking at an aerial photograph. It appears that
there is a very large arterial road, if not freeway
that is on the southern part or the lower part
of the image, there's a commercial business establishment and further
back there's an X marking where Kathy's body was allegedly

(39:51):
located at. It's in a clearing. You know, there's a
large clearing, which I'm assuming is this landfill or dump aspect,
and so maybe this commercial structure that I see down
in the lower part of the photograph is the you know,
the office, et cetera for the dump. I'm not sure
about that. You know. One of the questions that I

(40:11):
would have is that if this is an active dump
where people are coming flowing through here, you know all
the time, was Kathy's body in plane view? And then
why did it take two months to see it? Or
was Kathy's body obscured enough to where even with an

(40:32):
active business going on with you know, people flowing in
and out of this dump space, she would have been
hidden from view. Do you have any information on that?

Speaker 1 (40:43):
The notes say this is not a well known dump,
This is not a place where people have gone before, okay,
and it looks like it's kind of tucked away in
the corner away from the main road unless I'm wrong,
I mean you could actually see like a little car down.
I think that's a car down kind of traveling on
the road. So this is not as well known. And
also I'm sure she must have been covered up with

(41:04):
snow January in Baltimore area.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
So and I guess the other question is is I
have made I may have made a false assumption when
you said it was a dump, that it was like
an active business, you know as a landfill or dump
or is this just a kind of a dump location
where people are illegally dumping their trash or items. Did
you have a sense as to what's going on there.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
No, I don't have a sense for that. I'm sorry, Paul.
It is not a well known dump. It's twenty yards
away from the road, so, I mean, it just says
it seems like isolated. I mean her her skirt was
pulled up and her shirt was open.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Well, this goes to now, Okay, I'm going to make
the assumption that since they're saying only somebody who knew
about this location, you know, has local knowledge. It's not
an area that you'd have a lot of people flowing
in and out of, so her body could have been
put there the night that she went missing and just
you know, finally somebody observed it two months later. Of course,

(42:07):
now her car has this vegetation, has this mud on it?
Does this vegetation and mud appear that it could have
originated from the dump location? So that's one of those
things that I would really want to know very quickly
in the investigation. Can I place Kathy's car where her
body is found or was there a different location where

(42:27):
that car had gone for some reason, either with Kathy
or after Kathy was killed. I think next I'm going
to need to know autopsy results because I'm kind of curious.
You know, how was she killed? Could she have been
killed in the car? Does she have bleeding injuries? You know,
this is where you know this this statement that there's
no forensic evidence in this car, Well, that's right, that's absurd.

(42:50):
There's a huge amount of forensic evidence in the car.
We know somebody who's in that car. You know, we're
going to try to place somebody in that car, and
Kathy could have been killed in that car. So you know,
I need to know more.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Okay, so let's continue on. We are very lucky because
we have probably in this time period, the most famous
medical examiner on Earth in this time period. It's Marilynd's
deputy chief medical examiner. And his name is doctor Werner Spitz. Yeah, okay,

(43:24):
he had already worked on JFK and Martin Luther King
junior assassinations, so he is our medical examiner. He says
the cause of death is beating on the head, neck
and other parts of the body, but mainly on the head.
There is and I have a photo of this him
looking at the photo. That's the best I can do.
There is a perfectly round hole in the side of

(43:45):
sister Kathy's skull. Detective Bud, who's the detective on this case,
reports to the scene. He says it looks like it
could have been made by a ballpeen hammer, and he
said that a priest's ring could have also made such
a hole if she was hit with enough force. The
hole is about the size of a tennis ball. Doctor
Spitz just said, I don't know, it just would have

(44:07):
been a dense, heavy object. And like I said, I
have a photo. So as far as the autopsy, all
we know right now is that she's been hitting the
head and this photo, Paul is I think crazy. So
this is doctor Spitz looking at sister Kathy's skull.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
So yeah, I'm of course I see doctor Spitz there
and he's holding up a black and white photo that
shows a skull that is completely devoid of flesh, at
least anything that I could discern as flesh. There is
some discoloration across the face of the skull as well
as the back, but the skull is turned to where

(44:46):
I can see the left side of the cranium as
well as the left side of the face. And this hole,
which appears that it's a significant depressed skull fracture, is irregular.
It's from top to bottom longer than side to side.

(45:06):
And just guestimating based on the you know, the typical
size of the human skull, this this hole appears to
be roughly three inches from top to bottom and maybe
one and a half inches side to side or smaller.
But this is a significant injury. Now, when I've had

(45:28):
cases involving let's say hammers, you know, where you have
let's say the face of the hammer that is being
used to inflict wounds two a person's head, you see
very classic, very circular depressed skull fractures, or if the
hammer faces you know, kind of when it hits in
a particular area. Almost get this lunar's semi lunar type

(45:50):
of injury, laceration and or depressed fracture. I wouldn't eliminate
something like a hammer maybe being used and inflicting, you know,
multiple blows at this location enough to where it's causing
this large hole. But this looks more akin to something
like an irregular massive weapon, like a rock, significant rock,

(46:15):
or other type of massive weapon. This is not in
any way, shape or form consistent with a ring somebody's
wearing at all. I understand how anybody would even think that,
you know. So what this informs me is is that, Okay,
Kathy has received a significant blow or multiple blows to

(46:36):
the left side of her head. This most certainly would
be fatal, and this would be this would result in
significant bleeding, you know, wherever she's located, at wherever the
her this occurred, whether it be in her vehicle or
at some sort of other death scene. You know, there's
a death scene out there, and her blood, impossible brain

(46:58):
matter would be present at that location.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Well that's all good to know. So as we move forward,
you know, we'll be able to see what other kind
of evidence we have, because I don't know how much
the autopsy is going to help at this point. So
Baltimore County surrounds Baltimore City. These are separate jurisdictions, and
Landown is in Baltimore County and that's where her body
is discovered. So the case is handed over from Baltimore

(47:24):
City Police to Baltimore County Police. So when that happens,
I'm sure this happens. Now. When that transfer happens, evidence
that is important never gets passed from one of these
jurisdictions to the other. And in the documentary series, a
representative from Baltimore County Police say that the city police

(47:44):
had that letter that Marilyn had received and it was
never given to them when sister Kathy's body was discovered
in Baltimore County. And so in the middle of an
interview with the keepers, the Baltimore County police officer realizes
that possibly no physical evidence from the period when sister
Cathy was missing was turned over to the county you know,

(48:07):
he just says, I don't even know if we got
any of it. The series was taped decades after this
case happened, So is that something that happens commonly, when
you're you know, having to pass on a case from
one jurisdiction to another. Does that surprise you that there
might be missing evidence when you're passing over from one
to another.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
No, Nor is it unusual for when you have, you know,
one agency is responding to a missing person's case, and
then now you have a body found in a different jurisdiction,
so now you have another agency who is handling the homicide.
Oftentimes you do not see this transfer of evidence. It
is not necessarily a standardized process. Agencies that are well

(48:46):
experienced and organized, of course, would try to consolidate that evidence,
and there would be tracking mechanisms of evidence flowing from
one agency to another where it's now integrated as part
of the evidence list or the agency that is handling
the homicide. However, I've seen cases over and over again
where you don't see that type of transaction, So you

(49:07):
have to be aware that there's different repositories of evidence.
Now for Baltimore PDE, who has a missing person's case
over the decades, I absolutely can see and have experienced
this where now somebody in the property room, a technician
in the property room, is now going through their routine
destruction of evidence in order to free up more space

(49:28):
for new evidence that is coming in every day, and
they just see a missing person's chart. It was just
a missing person's case, and they go, well, we don't
need to keep this anymore. You know, evidence from nineteen
sixty nine boom gone. Technically there needs to be documentation
of property destruction, but oftentimes with some agencies that aren't
very organized, there is no documentation. So this is just

(49:53):
so typical, you know, it's not surprising at all, Like
this letter from Kathy Postmark November eighth, can't be found
that was collected under a missing person's case at Baltimore PD.
So now you know, in all likelihood, unless that evidence
is just tucked away in the property warehouse somewhere and
nobody's actually put forth great effort to find it, there's

(50:17):
a good chance it just got destroyed during routine processing
out of that property room.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Okay, So we don't know ultimately why this evidence doesn't
come out, but sounds like it's not something that is
totally shocking to you. So that's good to know. I mean,
that's good to have that kind of information moving forward. Essentially,
this case goes cold. You know, they reinterview Father Jerry.
Father Jerry says they were really putting high pressure on him,

(50:45):
and he says something really weird that at one point
when the police are questioning him, they throw something wrapped
up in a newspaper on the table and he opens
it and he says it was one of Kathy's like
secontual parts. Now, of course the police are going to
deny that. It seems weird. But if it happened, I

(51:05):
guess the consensus is they were trying to get him
to talk to scare him. It doesn't work. He doesn't
look at it closely.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
So something wrapped in a piece of newspaper is one
of Kathy's sexual parts? Are we talking about something has
been excized from her body?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
That's what they're what he's saying. So the reason I
bring that up is I don't know if that's true
or not. Does that say anything about Father Jerry. It's weird.
I mean, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Okay, do you have the autopsy? More from the autopsy
in terms of the dissection, what you know, what the
condition of her body was. I mean, after two months,
it's going to be even though it's wintertime, there's going
to be a level of decomposition. But outside of the
disruption of her clothes, when you start saying, you know,
her sexual part is removed from her body, well know,

(51:51):
is that the way her body was found. That's becoming
hugely significant to me.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
That is not something that Spitz has said was really true.
She was buried after this happened, and he didn't say anything.
I think he said it in the Keepers, which happened
forty or fifty years after this, so there was no
way to prove it. I don't have the autopsy results.
There was never anything like that, noted from what I
saw that doctor Spitz said. So he's either making it

(52:18):
up or something.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Jerry's making it up.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, to me, it doesn't make any sense. I mean
to me, it doesn't make any sense, especially because this
is something Spitz would have said, Oh yeah, there's a
removal of her vagina. But at the same time, my
point of bringing this up is it's weird if he
lies about this, that's weird. I mean, why would you
even say something like that, you know, you.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Know, unless the investigators were doing some sort of ruse
with Jerry in order to press him. Yeah, you know,
to make statements, but that's absurd. You know, if that
really happened, then that tells me a lot about the
law enforcement investigation and the quality of the individuals involved
with it. But I'm not sure I can put he

(53:00):
wait on Jerry. He may have just been completely misinterpreted
what he was looking at.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Right, And I think that was the point, is that
if this did happen, I think people think it's the
police doing exactly what she said. They had a stake
or something in there instead, you know, and it was
a ruse to put pressure on him. Yeah, or he's
making it up and it's a weird thing to make up. Regardless, Paul,
this goes cold for twenty five years, as does Joyce
Malecki's case. Both of these go cold. They have no suspects,

(53:30):
they don't have enough to charge, you know, father Jerry.
They can't figure anything else out, They don't have clues.
Any evidence that they had was lost in a transfer apparently,
So this goes cold until nineteen ninety four. So we're
going from nineteen sixty nine to nineteen ninety four. There's
a former Archbishop Keyot student high school student who comes

(53:51):
forward with another student and this is where the horrific
abuse at the hands of several priests at this school
where she worked. Sister Kathy worked between the second in
the sixties and the seventies took place. This is a
woman who is known as Jane Doe, and she says this,
and this is what really blows up this whole investigation.
So twenty five years later, she says that before Sister

(54:15):
Kathy's body was discovered, a priest who was abusing her,
one of the priests at the school had driven her
to where Sister Kathy's body was and showed it to her.
He said, the same thing is going to happen to
you if you tell anyone about the things I've done.
When this happens. In nineteen ninety four, the newspaper The

(54:36):
Baltimore Sun confirms this woman knew details about the crime
scene the dump that had not been known to the
public before. So this is where I probably need your interpretation,
because Jane Doe and another student have a lawsuit against
the school that had been dismissed because their testimony depended

(54:57):
on what is classified by the State of Maryland as
quote unquote recovered memories, which are inadmissible in this case.
Her memories. Jane Doe's memories did come back to her later,
not with the help of like an outside person or
hypnotist or anything, but that she said she just pushed
them all back. She disassociated for about twenty years. And

(55:19):
the other student, who was Jane Row that's who they
named her, doesn't really sound like she ever forgot it.
She just didn't come forward. So they labeled these as
recovered memories, which are inadmissible. But it sounds like these
are just people who couldn't or wouldn't come forward until
twenty five years later. But the big headline here is

(55:39):
this woman says she was taken to sister Kathy's body
before it was discovered.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, you know, this is significant, and of course I'm
wanting to drill down to really get a feel for
the veracity of what Jane Doe is saying. You know,
could she take the investigators to that dump location or
if they take her into that general area, because she

(56:04):
may not, you know, as a kid, not you know
know how to drive to that location. But okay, take
her to that location and say, okay, where did this
guy show you sister Kathy's body? And then tell us
what you saw and does that really add up with
the actual facts of this dump location of Kathy's body.

(56:25):
I'm going to assume that Jane Doe is spot on
with what she's remembering. Okay, of course, this idea of
recovered memory not being admissible, well that's for trial purposes,
but that is an investigative lead. You No, you could
still use it as an investigative lead. So now it's like, well,

(56:47):
who is this man who drove this Jane Doe to
where sister Kathy's body was found? Now, I'm you know.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
You're all in.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
It's a dog after a bone.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, well, there are a lot of details here before
before we get to what she says and who the
man was, let me give you a little bit of background.
In twenty seventeen, so this is not very long ago,
Jane Doe reveals her real identity. She speaks on camera
in the Netflix documentary series The Keepers. It is harrowing
to listen to her and I find it very difficult.

(57:19):
And I've told you a million times. These are the stories,
particularly like teenage girls, young girls, sexual abuse, These are
the stories. I can almost always take any kind of murder,
but this is this sexual abuse is really difficult, so
I made it through it, but it was. It's an
absolutely astounding series, and her recounting of this is really difficult.

(57:39):
So I'm not getting into the details. I will tell
you this. Her name is Gene Hargaden Wayner, and she
had actually first come forward to the church about the
abuse in nineteen ninety two, but the story came out
in the press two years later after she gets a
run around for the church for two years. She was
a freshman, she went to confession and all of these

(58:00):
people I'm about to name are important, and boy, I'm
just going to try to skip through this. She goes
to confession and she tells a priest who is a
man named Father Neil Mangus who taught religion, that she
had been sexually abused as a child. He starts sexually
abusing her. She's a freshman in high school and after
several months of this, another priest who works at the

(58:21):
school is a guy named Father Joseph Maskel. He also
abuses Gene. He is the school's chaplain. And this is
the man we're going to be focusing on. He's young, relatively,
he's been ordained for just four years before Sister Cathy died.
He had been transferred to Archbishop Kio in nineteen sixty seven.

(58:42):
So it's awful. I mean, Father Maskal brings other men
to abuse her, including police officers. It sounds like at
least one police officer. His brother, Mascal's brother, is a
police officer with the Baltimore City Police Department. He is
also Paul, the chaplain for the Baltimore More County Police,
the Maryland National Guard, and the Air National Guard. He's

(59:05):
friends with a lot of cops, including the first officer
who responds when Kathy's body is found. They're all over
the police here.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
You just let me know how the archdiocese could tell
the police department to back off if you have officers
that are committing the same type of abuse on underaged kids. Now, yes,
that is something that they could exploit in order to
just bury this in the investigation.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Yeah, you know, Gene is feeling constantly threatened by Father Maskal,
and on one occasion she says that he produces a
handgun and threatens to kill her if she ever said anything.
There's another kid, Well, now he's a man, but he
was a kid at the time who had been an
altar boy for father Maskal, who also said he saw

(59:56):
him carrying a gun. That this priest was carrying a
gun of co This is not the only young girl
that this is happening to. Her story first comes to
light at the beginning of a larger reckoning about abuse
at this school, which we now know was part of
a much, much bigger, systemic pattern of abuse within the
Catholic Church. And it sounds like the abuse at Keo

(01:00:17):
was rampant and unchecked. And according to a twenty twenty
three report from the Maryland Attorney General's Office, Maskell already
had a history of suspected child abuse by the time
he was given the job of chaplain at Keo. The
report says he was moved from two parishes in the
sixties because of reports of troubling behavior with children. So

(01:00:37):
Gene is not the only one she is talking about
this now. And as I said, father Maskell is the
one who takes her to the dump where sister Kathy
is and says, if you say anything, this is what's
going to happen to you. Scares her to death, so
much so that she doesn't talk for almost twenty five years.

(01:00:59):
I'll give you more details about this case because it
is way not over. I mean, we are under We're
so not over this case. But you're gonna have to
wait a week. I told you it's big. I warned
you You're gonna have to wait a week. We'll do
part two next week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Yeah, you know what, there's a lot of moving parts
in this case. I'm gonna have to I've got my notes.
I'll have to review my notes before we move forward
during the next episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Okay, we'll get ready. I'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
All right, sounds good? Kay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
This has been an exactly right production for our.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Sources and show notes go to exactly Rightmedia dot com
slash Buried Bones sources.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Our senior producer is Alexis Emirosi.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark, and Daniel Kramer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at
Buried Bones Pod.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded
Age story of murder and the race to decode the
criminal mind, is available now, and

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Paul's best selling memoir Unmasked, My life solving America's cold
cases is also available now