A New Face! Do We Really Want Celebrities To Be Transparent About Plastic Surgery?

Hey Lifers,

Laura is joining us from Bali today (for work) and Keeshia is filling in for Britt but is in a bit of a funk after moving house over the weekend. They say that if you want to test your relationship, build an ikea flat pack together. Moving house seems to be the level up from that when it comes to testing your relationship. Have you faced the test and realised things about your partner that you’ve never thought before?

Laura’s ‘for you’ page is the stuff of nightmares. We might be back tracking on saying that the algorithm only shows you what you spend time on after this 😂. But she’s found a solution for you if yours needs a refresh and an overhaul! 

There are some changes coming to NSW with how ADHD may be diagnosed and medicated. Most of the commentary online was encouraging of these changes but we speak about why we think it’s a little bit more complex than what it might appear on the surface and how it may add to the stigma that ADHD already has.
You can listen to Cloud here 

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Do you want to know if a celebrity has had plastic surgery… or does that just make things worse?

Do we want transparency or does it normalise unrealistic beauty standards? Kris Jenner’s new face has infiltrated many group chats and we unpack whether being out and proud about surgery demystifies what it takes to obtain a particular aesthetic or whether it promotes and encourages unnecessary cosmetic procedures. We ask if it’s more damaging to pretend you haven’t had surgery—or to be transparent but promote it like it’s no big deal (when it might be expensive, painful, and risky).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm cut, I'm Laura, and I'm Keisha, and Laura's in
Bali and I don't.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Want to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Can you show up to work with a good attitude?
Goddamn it?

Speaker 3 (00:24):
No, look, BRIT's away.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
She is currently in Italy posting photos and videos from
all over the place. I have come to BALI mind you,
this is for work, so I want I want that
to be very clear.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Keisha, I am working hard in the sunshine. God damn it.
What's that cocktail in the background doing?

Speaker 1 (00:41):
It's ago?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Can I just say thank.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
God for Keisha who actually shows up to work and
holds down the fort in this place, because if it
wasn't for you, all the fucking wheel would be falling
off this bandwagon real quick.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Especial shout out to producer Grace who produces your radio
show as well. She helped me because we really are
down some team members today.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
But I do apologize.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I am in a little bit of a I mean
a bit of a funk at the moment. You know
when you just get in those moods where you're just
like it is not happening right now. I moved house
over the weekend. I severely underestimated how much mental energy
it took to move an entire house. It didn't help
that my boyfriend was called into work for a thirteen
and a half hour shift, and so all of the
unpacking ended up fulling on my shoulders. But I'm just

(01:28):
in that weird funk.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
I think that moving house is equivalent. Actually no, it's
like the Ikea challenge for your relationship, but on steroids.
You know how everyone says, if you want to test
your relationship, make some flat pack furniture together, go and
spend some time in Ikea. That's child's play in comparison
to moving house. I remember when we moved, so like
we moved from our old place to where we currently live.

(01:52):
Pretty much every box I packed, and I did it
over a few weeks. And I did it the normal
human way, which is you pack one room and you
right on the top of the box what room it is,
and what's inside it.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
The contents that is so organized. I'm really surprised, Sol,
I'm really surprised. So that's come through me.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
I mean, I'm offended, but I'm also not surprised. I'm
really impressed this comes off the back because, like I
went through a period in my twenties where I moved
so many times, so this was a lesson well learned.
And then my husband decided to pack one or two
rooms when he had some free time. One of those
rooms was the kitchen. He packed all of our plates

(02:30):
and our bowls and everything from the kitchen drawers, and
when they arrived, every single thing in those boxes were
smashed because he didn't use any paper in between anything.
He just laid all of the breakables on top of
each other. And I've never had a bigger ick for
Matt in my entire life. And the day I unpacked
our plate drawer.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm so glad you said it, because I got the
ick for my boyfriend over the weekend. The reason was
because he had told me, oh, there's just like one
car load left at the old house because it's only
like a twenty minute drive.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
So we're being doing a lot of carloads and we
got the.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Professional movers and I went back to look at it,
and I was like, can you math?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Like, what is wrong with you? How?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
How do you have such a lack of spatial awareness
that you think this is one car load, this is four.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
This is so much work.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
But I also had a moment over the weekend where
I realized that I am becoming my mom, Like my
mum is such a get in and get shit done
type of person. And so the pace that the movers
and my boyfriend was operating at over the weekend not acceptable.
At one point I caught the removal list paying them
one hundred and eighty dollars an hour, mind you carrying

(03:38):
one piece of a bed frame into my bedroom and
I was like, I am five foot two and I
carry two of those.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
Like, what is happening? You are on the clock and
I am paying for it.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
This is giving everyone a real insight and the true
drill master, the Kisha is also can I just flag
one thing that you said, Please never say to your
significant other what is wrong with you? I feel like
there's nothing more damaging in a relationship than actually there are,
there are more things that are damaging, but like that
really sums up some psychological damage that you could do

(04:15):
to your partner by saying what is wrong with you?
Rhetorical and dangerous. That's the territory you're heading into.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, you're right, I probably need to go and self
reflect a little. But it has tested our relationship. We're
in the house now, I'm getting through it.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
It is going to be a process.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
But there is a really nice side of it as well.
And I think it's the fact that we went back
to the old house last night to do a bit
of cleaning and to kind of finish off packing some boxes.
And it was really weird when we left and shut
the front door of the old house. This is the
first house that we've lived in together.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
He turned to me and he looked at me, and
he was like, isn't it weird that this place doesn't
feel like home anymore?

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Like the other place already feels like home.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
It feels like it's ours, and this kind of just
feels like a house. And it was one of those
moments where I was like, Oh, you're right, Like it
doesn't represent that anymore. Even though this was like our
first home that we lived in together. We're kind of
moving into this next chapter. And that did feel really lovely,
and I forgot that he had such a lack of
spatial awinness.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I had a similar a similar feeling, although actually maybe
it was more laced with a bit of sadness when
Matt and I moved out of the apartment that Brit
lives in. That was the apartment that we brought both
of our kids into the world in. That was the
first real apartment that we lived in together without housemates,
and so we kind of went from me being pregnant
and us living with housemates to us moving into this apartment,

(05:35):
and we went from one kid to two kids really quickly,
and then moving out of that place kind of felt
it felt weird to know that we were never going
to go back to the place.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
That Marley will actually go back there quite frequently. Is really.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Britweely was there for three years, but it was weird
to think that that was the house that Marley took
her first steps in and that both of my kids
crawled down the hallway in. And this really beautiful full
circle moment happened the other day when we were at
BRIT's hen's party. So BRIT's sister, Sherry, who also worked
with us across ADMIN, she was showing me a video

(06:09):
of baby Maya crawling for the first time, and it
was down the same hallway where my kids had crawled
for the first time, and It just brought back so
many memories that I think that there is this sort
of sentimental attachment when really big milestones have happened in
a place, and it was really special to see it again.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Something that I have been questioning my life.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Choices on I want to know, does anyone else have
a completely fucked up for you page on Instagram? And
what I mean by that is is like, you know
how Instagram gives you, like its recommended choices and you
kind of flick through there and it might be an
amalgamation of I don't know, whatever it is that you're into.
It's meant to optimize to the things that you enjoy,
the content that you enjoy watching. Now, recently, I have

(06:48):
seen my for you page get progressively worse and worse
and worse over the last few weeks, to the point
now where it is so beyond criminal. It is so
grotesque mine for you page. I have not done anything
to train this algorithm. I absolutely swear on my life,
but it's anything from like weird pimple popping videos to

(07:09):
like botched surgeries to some sort of like horrific skin
infections and then diagrams of people doing poos. But from
the internal Like imagine if you could have like an
X ray of someone doing a poo. That's the stuff
that's showing up on my for you page. What have
you been searching, Lurah, This is the problem we have always.
We've even answered ask on cut questions around like how

(07:30):
Instagram optimizes to things that you engage with.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
I swear all my.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Life apart from some of the weird shit we talk
about on this podcast, and I'm pretty sure that our
phones are listening. I do not look for anal fishes
on the internet. I am not there in my.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
Life yet, okay.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
And it went through this weird phase where it was
all about bodybuilders at one stage and I was just
getting like half naked men and women going through like
bodybuilding contests. And then now we've come out like a
real medical I don't even know how to describe its side, Laurie.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
You did a photo of it.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's cooked, Okay. I don't know what the hell you've
been I don't know where they've got these cookies from.
I don't know what you've been searching on safari, but
somehow they have connected.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Dots and that's what you've been left with them.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
I have never received so many validating messages from people.
I received hundreds of dms yesterday, hundreds and hundreds from
people being like, oh my god, mine for you page
is exactly the same. It is frightening, it is harrowing.
Now I just want back the baby goats, I want
back the hobby horse, saying I want to be back
at the time when Instagram used to feed me pigeon ness.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
That's when I think I was at my peak Instagram era.
That was a good time. I enjoyed the pigeon content.
It was a great time.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
I also hate that your armpits featured so much in
that video that went really viral of you talking about
pigeons laying eggs and you were just laying on the
chair like literally like this the whole time.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
People are not gonna know what we're talking about. But
this video did go particularly viral. I was talking about
content that I came across, which was pigeon dess Okay,
don't ask me why, and that reeal went so well
for us. We'll just repost it so in case you
missed it, you can see it again. And also, if
you're really into armpits, if that's your kind of content,
let me tell you it'll be right here for you all.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
I'm gonna say, do you think it was the pigeoness?
So do you reckon it was the armpits? Like maybe
we kind of tapped into a kink that we didn't
know the internet has.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
I also don't want to know about it if that's
the case.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
But one thing I did want to share with you guys,
if you have found that your Instagram feed, like your
for you page, has gotten particularly messed up. But also
it doesn't just have to be gross stuff like I
was experiencing. Maybe you are of an age demographic where
you're just being fed nothing but engagement rings and you
are single, or maybe you are wanting to have a baby,

(09:41):
or you're going through fertility issues and all you're getting
is baby content and other people's pregnancy announcements. Like sometimes
I think, yes, Instagram can get it right, but also
they can get it very, very very wrong, and that
sometimes you might engage with content not because you like
the content, not because you're inspired by the content, but
it's almost like watching a car accident and then you

(10:02):
continue watching it and Instagram's.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Like, oh, you spent time on the platform here let's
give you some more.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
So there is a way, and some amazing life has
sent this to me and it has literally transformed my
Instagram account.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
You can go into your settings.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
You go into a tab which is towards the bottom,
and it says content preferences or preferred content something like that.
Click into that, and then there is a at the
very bottom of that it says reset suggested content. And
by doing that, it completely resets not only the accounts
that are being shown to you in the most frequently.

(10:37):
So for example, I get a lot of media content
on my scrolling page, so I get a lot of
like your mum and MEA's, your pedestrians, They're kind of
the main content that comes up for me. And so
when I went into this reset suggestion, it shows me
here are the accounts that we show you the most of.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
So you can go through and actually.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Unfollow, not unfollow them, but you can decide and curate
a little bit better. But you can also completely re
set your Instagram for you page, so the algorithm will
start again and you can train it properly to start
looking for the things that you actually enjoy. So if
you feel like you've gone down a rabbit hole of hell.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
This is a way to start again.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
And I have had so many messages from people who
have experienced this and they are now living the good
life just like me. Back to hobbyhorsing here we come.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I don't know if you've seen this going around recently.
I'm assuming that you probably would have. There's a lot
of content coming out from a I can't remember her
name now, but she's a British speaker, and she's talking
about the things that if you start a TikTok account
or you start an Instagram account and you put in
the details that you're like a fourteen year old boy,
and they will measure how long it takes for you

(11:44):
to be served a certain type of content. And she's
talking about the problematic side of it. But now that
you've reset it, what has it kind of like fed
to you as the assumptions that it might already have.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I mean, obviously it still knows the type of views
you are. It knows that I'm a woman, it knows
that I'm pregnant because I've been looking at a lot
of content that surrounds like things that I need for pregnancy,
and so I think it already still has a bit
of a gauge on curating what is appropriate for what
it thinks is appropriate for who you are, but it
doesn't go deep in specific topics. So now it's like

(12:15):
a mix. It's a real sort of generic mix between
fashion and health and lifestyle and then a couple of
rogue random ones in there which you can to engage
with or not, whereas before it was like extremely specific.
If you just want to get back to a good basis,
give it a crack, go do your content preferences, your
reset suggested content, and report back, because I feel like

(12:35):
it's going to help a lot of people's psychiatric wellness laws.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
I think that I need to refresh my algorithm.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
I need to go through in resech The only thing
that I get served at the moment are hair tutorials,
which I'm not against. But the other thing that I
get so much of is ADHD content. And I spoke
about this when we created Cloud actually the podcast, the
tempart mini series that we did about late age diagnosis
of ADHD and my experience of that diagnosis and how
it kind of shifted my perception of the way that

(13:04):
I think, in the way that I am. I think
that Initially when I was diagnosed, I must have like
searched one thing to do with ADHD. And now my
entire algorithm I reckon every second post that I get
suggested has to do with ADHD. And funnily enough, yesterday
when I opened up my Instagram acount, the first thing
that came to the top was a post by the

(13:24):
Daily Os.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
And I had to do with ADHD.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
And I was then sent this by about fifty lifers saying, Oh,
I'm interested to get your take on this. And the
reason I wanted to talk about it on the podcast
is because I think initially the reaction to this, you know,
I saw a pedestrian post about it. I saw a
couple of other like you know, young media outlets posting
about it, and it seemed to be heralded as like
a really good thing.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
And my perspective is that it's a little.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Bit more complex than that, and I don't necessarily think
I agree with it. So this is what's happening, what
the Daily Ods post. It says New South Wales GPS
soon be able to diagnose ADHD and prescribe medication. From
next year, GPS across New South Wales will be able
to diagnose attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and prescribe medication. Both
children and adults will be affected by the changes, which

(14:13):
the government will start phasing in from twenty twenty six.
GPS will need to complete extra training to be eligible.
The changes make New South Wales the third state to
simplify the ADHD treatment process, following Queensland and Western Australia.
Now They then posted what ADHD is and they said
that in the next few months GPS will be able
to file expressions of interest to undertake specialist training. The

(14:36):
government will fund one thousand spots in the training program.
It said that GPS will start prescribing, treating and diagnosing
ADHD in local clinics from early twenty twenty six, initially
prioritizing children over adults.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Laura, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well, I feel like it's tricky one for me to
comment on because I've never been through the process of
being diagnosed with ADHD. Despite all the jokes that is
made on this podcast about me potentially having it, I've
never gone through the process. And I know, obviously through
Ukish and from being very invested in the cloud series,
that the only people who can prescribe medication for ADHD

(15:15):
are psychiatrists. There are other ways that you can get diagnosed,
but if you want to go down the route of
being medicated and being put on a prescription, you have
to go to a psychiatrist. I think the problem here
is that we have a very overwhelmed psychiatric load. Like
the system doesn't work and unfortunately the wait times are huge.
People are paying enormous amounts of money that are not

(15:37):
rebated in order to get the help that they need.
Accessibility for people who live in rural areas is really
poor and there is a problem that needs to be fixed.
One good thing is that the government is recognizing that
whether they're going about it in the right or the
wrong way, I mean, I'm not sure, but I do
think that potentially there is a little bit of fearmongering

(15:58):
that goes on when you see these types changes. It
is reassuring to know that it's already happened in Queensland
and also in Western Australia. I would think that for
a GP to become proficient able to diagnose and also
medicate for ADHD, they would have to go through a
similar process in terms of very in depth training and Also,

(16:18):
you can't just as a patient rock up for a
fifteen minute general assessment appointment and then walk out the
door with amphetamines, Like, I can't imagine that that's going
to be something that's going to shift. However, without knowing
what those changes are, on one hand, you're like, oh, yes,
it is lessening the burden for a psychiatrists, but it's
certainly not solving a problem.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, And just to give a bit of context, like
about the costs and the wait times that you're referring to,
I know that my appointments, like I do live in Sydney,
so it's probably a little bit more expensive than other
parts of the country. But I also know that of
the options in Sydney, mine was a relatively reasonable fee.
So my initial appointment was about eight hundred dollars and
I think I got about two hundred bucks back, and

(16:58):
then my follow up appointments I can't remember. I think
that they must be about five hundred to begin with,
and I usually get like one hundred and something back,
like one hundred and sixty maybe one hundred and eighty
back from that.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
So you're out of pocket a lot.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
How much do you think you spent on this process
in total.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
For my friends that are maybe going down an ADHD diagnosis, now,
I often say you need three grand in the bank.
You'll get some of it back, but you will need
to have that amount just to make sure that you'll
have all of your appointments covered. And there is a
particular issue in a lot of states. I know that
New South Wales is especially bad in terms of a
lack of accessibility to public funded psychiatric care. So a

(17:36):
lot of an ADHD diagnosis h sorry, specifically when it
comes to ADHD, so a lot of the care has
to go private. And for obviously for a lot of
people that's just not something that they have money in
the bank for. They might have other priorities that are
a lot greater than their psychiatric health. But there's two
reasons that I kind of I don't know, I really
feel hesitant about these changes, and one is from like

(17:59):
a medical perspective. One is that I think psychiatrists go
through five to six years of specialty training.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
In New South Wales.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
There has been quite a bit of media exposure recently
about the burden that psychiatrists in the public sector are
being put under. They're basically having people quit at accelerated rates,
which adds to the workload of the people who are existing,
and they've been asking kind of be paid what they're worth,
and those have been rejected by the government. It seems

(18:26):
very strange to me that instead of saying, Okay, well,
we're going to increase funding for psychiatric care, or we're
going to increase the rebate that a patient might receive
from that private psychiatric care which makes it more affordable,
they've just said, oh, we're just going to defer it
to a different specialty. Like it seems very strange to
me that that's the direction that they've taken. And the

(18:46):
other reason that I feel, and this is a lot
more personal, This is a lot more like internal, and
it has to do with a lot of the stigma
that I think people with ADHD already face, Like the
amount of times I've heard the phrase or everybody has ADHD, Like,
you know, there's this over diagnosis, over medication problem.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Everybody's got ADHD. It's the world we live in. It's
the algorithms.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
That was even one of your fear when we were
talking about creating cloud in the first place. Your very
initial reaction was like do you think anyone cares because
people are talking about it so much now that the
oversimplified conversation is that everyone thinks they have it and
everyone wants to get diagnosed.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
And there's two reasons that I think that's the case.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
One is that the symptoms of ADHD are common symptoms
that occur in other psychiatric conditions. They also occur in
extreme burnout, they also occur in stress. There's already so
much stigma about medication for ADHD in the fact that
you know everybody wants it, and so it's just so
easy to go to your doctor and just get a prescription.
And I'm sure that that's not going to be the case,

(19:48):
but I think we already face enough stigma as it is,
and I think that the necessary checks and balances that.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
You have to go through to get.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
A diagnosis, especially if you want to be medicated, it
almost legitimizes the condition in a way, like it almost
made me feel as though I was like, no, I've
had someone who really knows their shit, who really knows
what's going on, examine me thoroughly, and their professional opinion
is that I have ADHD, And so in a way
I felt like it legitimized the condition. And that might

(20:18):
be my own internal bias, like that might just be
because I'm fearful of the fact that people judge me
for having ADHD or judge me for taking medication. But
I do think that increasing the accessibility through GPS might
actually add to that stigma.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, And I guess the other part of this, and
the thing that we don't have the information on, is
how much of the GP process will be rebated to patients,
because ultimately, getting a diagnosis for ADHD is an incredibly
privileged position to be in. Not many people who have
or who are struggling financially have three thousand dollars in
the bank where they can go through that process. So

(20:57):
there are a lot of people that remain undiagnosed who
probably we could and would find a lot of benefit
through being able to seek out that. But it's the
same for anything. It's the same for people who have
depression or severe anxiety, or a multitude of other very
significant and potentially even worse mental health disorders. That's why
so many people fall through the cracks in our systems
is simply because seeking out that care is so expensive.

(21:21):
I guess, like I come back to this one idea
that and I know, like Kishi, you've got way more
skin in the game than I do. I do appreciate
that they're trying to make something more accessible, but I
guess it does feel like it's a band aid solution
to a far greater problem that's happening within our mental
health care system.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, that was kind of my overarching response, And so
I understand why a lot of people are celebrating this,
particularly if you're someone who doesn't have access to psychiatric care,
like whether that be physical limitations that you live somewhere
where it's not accessible for you, or whether it is
a financial cost, or whether the wait times for getting

(21:56):
in to see a psychiatrists are just so long that
it deters you from actually doing it. Because I will
put my hand up and say, my initial referral from
my GP expired before I even got in to see
a psychiatrist.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
It was.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
I went and saw him about six months later for
a completely separate thing, and he was like, hey, how
did you go with that? Like the last time you
were here, you know, I gave you that referral, Like
how did you go getting in? And I was like, oh, yeah,
I made a couple of calls and there wait times
were like eight months. So I just I called a
couple and I said I'd call back if I didn't
find that one that was any shorter. But I just

(22:29):
forgot about it, Like I was just like it was
just too long. I'm just kind of waiting until the
waight times go down. And he was like, you have ADHD,
you need to get in the queue, like you need
to get in the queue. So like, in terms of that,
I can see it being a positive thing, but yeah,
I don't know. I just I felt a bit uncomfortable
reading it, and initially a lot of the comments were
in full support of it, and I think that's why

(22:51):
I was like, Oh, this is not the solution I
would have thought would improve the challenges that we were
already facing in terms of like adhd'dosis.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Well, I'd love to know if you're a GP who's
a lifer, slide into our DMS in terms of like
what your opinions are on this, and we'll post that
on our socials. But also if you haven't listened to
cloud yet and you have thought about or maybe all
your friends tell you have ADHD and you've been considering
going through the diagnosis process. Go and have a listen
to that ten part mini series because there's so much
information there for what is happening in our current age

(23:23):
in terms of women being in their thirties or their twenties,
or their forties or even later and thinking maybe this
is something that they've struggled with lifelong and seeking out
a solution for it.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
So we'll put the link in the show notes as well.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
One thing the world and the Internet seems to be
talking about at the moment is Chris Jenner's new face.
I am fascinated by and now I know it's not
a new trend. I know that this is something that
is like the tale as old as plastic surgery. This
idea that we're seeing coming across immedia at the moment
where women are unveiling, celebrities are unveiling their new face.

(23:56):
We saw it with Lindsay Lohan, we saw it with
Anne Hathaway, and now I think Chris Jenna is peak unveiling.
If you guys haven't seen it, I'm sure you have.
Chris Jenna was in Paris recently and she's been attending
Kim Kardashian's trial and There's been a lot of photos
that have come out of her where she looks literally forty.
She's gone from looking like a, you know, a very

(24:17):
good sixty nine year old woman to having some very
extensive surgery, some very extensive procedures that have resulted in
her face looking essentially like she's forty years old, even younger.
Potentially she looks like she could be Kim Kardashian's sister,
not Kim Kardashian's mother put it that way, and I
guess this has become like the latest talking point in

(24:37):
this ongoing debate that there is around esthetic culture, around aging,
and also around the beauty standards of the influencer age
that we are in. We often have the internal debate
here at Life Uncut around whether transparency when it comes
to plastic surgery is a good thing, Like do we
demand that of celebrities that we look up to or

(24:58):
that we aspire to be.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Do we appreciate it when.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Celebrities are honest about the surgeries or at least honest
about the fact that they've had surgery. Does it actually
make a difference or is it something that's really validating
and being like, Okay, well, we know that that wasn't
a natural achievement or that it's come from enhancements.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I also would say that this isn't just to celebrities whenever,
and for some reason, I just feel as though whenever
this comes up, I'm always the main one to talk
about it. When we talk about cosmetic injectibles. We've received
really really mixed feedback. One hand, people will write into
us and they will say, hey, I really appreciate that
you're honest about it, like it makes me feel better

(25:37):
hearing your experiences, particularly because I've kind of spoken about
both sides.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
I've talked about needing to get my lip filler.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Dissolved because it migrated and it wasn't you know, it
just didn't look good.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
I had a bit of lip fill of blindness at
one point and they were too big. It's not a
good time, also really expensive.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
So I've spoken about the negative sides of it, and
then we've also got feedback from people saying, hey, you
need to stop about this. Like the way that you
speak about it, You talk about it like it is
so normal and it's not normal. And we've kind of
unpacked that within ourselves, and I can absolutely see where
these people are coming from, And so I kind of
sit in this area where I can see where everyone

(26:16):
gets their perspective. And I've thought about this and thought, okay,
but what do I want from either my friends the
people around me that I work with?

Speaker 3 (26:25):
What do I want from celebrities?

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Do I want them to outright tell me when they've
had some type of enhancement, whether that because medicanjectibles, whether
that be surgery, whether that be I don't know what
other options there are on the market, but you get
my point. Do I want them to only be honest
about it if they're asked? Or do I want them
to keep it completely private because that might impact me
in a way where I think, oh, well, maybe that's

(26:47):
what I need to get done as well. And I
kind of yeah, I'm actually not completely in one category.
I think I personally skew more towards the transparency side.
But I wanted to go into maybe why that is
the case. It comes to Chris Jenna. She was asked
so much about her surgery that one of her reps
actually had to come out and confirm to Page six

(27:07):
and to People magazine that she had in fact had.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
A particular doctor do her surgery.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
There were apparently all these other surgeons around Hollywood that
were taking credit for christ Jenna's new face, and so
they came out and they said, we can confirm that
doctor Stephen Levine did christ Jiana's recent work, that they
did not actually disclose what she had had done.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Can you imagine how much the business of that doctor,
doctor Stephen Levine, how much he would be blowing up
on social media now, because I think that that's like
the biggest question.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
People want to know.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Well, people want to know what they've had done, but
they also want to know who did the work. That's
the thing, right, because not all plastic surgery is built
the same. And I agree with you completely Keys when
you talk about this seesaw between transparency and promotion, and
that's where I kind of feel uncomfortable with it because
I'm like, yes, I want to know from a transparency perspective,
but do I actually want to know, because then I'm like, oh,

(27:59):
maybe that's something I can could do, Like does it
encourage me to also seek out this age defying aspect
of it? And I don't know where I sit.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
In Britain.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I've had so many debates about this because she I
think Britt has a slightly different take to me and
doesn't think of it as the promotion as being necessarily negative.
But I kind of worry about the way in which
society is shifting. I mean, think about the Kadashians ten
years ago or fifteen years ago. They would deny every
single thing that they'd ever had done. Kylie Janna denied

(28:29):
every procedure she had done around her lips until one
day she talked about having her lips dissolved. They have
always said no, no, no, no, no, no no. We never
got a BUTTL lift, We never got this, We never
got that. It's simply this product I'm using all my
waist training, whatever it was at Corset that she was
howking at one stage. But I think that the tides
around plastic surgery have shifted, and I do think that

(28:50):
we're seeing a lot more transparency from people who are
having it done, from celebrities, from influencers.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'm just not.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Sure whether it's had the desired result. I don't know
whether the transparency has made me feel any better or
whether it was just this bias that we kind of
held onto for a really long time around wanting it.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
When it comes to the transparency. The thing that I
also question is like how transparent is helpful. Chris has
admitted that she's had surgical procedures by this doctor.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
But they haven't actually broken down what.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
She has had, So now there's all this speculation on
the internet about what she may or may not have
had done. There was a doctor on YouTube with five
point four to two million followers called doctor Young, and
he said that he thinks her results are because of
weight loss, likely from a weight loss medication. He thinks
that she's had a lower facelift. He said that that
treats gows lifts the lower face and neck to give

(29:41):
the sharper jawline. He also said that she may have
not overdone it with filler, so whether she's had that
dissolved or whether it's kind of naturally degraded over time.
He thinks she may have had a possible rhinoplasty, So
that's a nose job. Her nose is a little bit
of a different structure to what it was before, a
possible eyebrow lift and possible eyelid removal. I find it

(30:02):
interesting because in the past she has actually come out
and said, you know, I've had breast surgery I've had
breast augmentation. I've had that done a couple of times.
She said that she's had botox and filler. On an
episode of Keeping Up with the Kardashians in twenty eighteen,
they actually documented her getting elobe surgery, which is particularly random.
But I think it's interesting that she has been transparent

(30:24):
about some things, and she's been transparent about having surgery,
but not exactly what was done.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
I guess the problem that I have with her, and
maybe this is where I kind of come back to
the whole debate around promotion verse transparency, and that is
is because the lack of information actually negates how serious
these procedures are. And also the fact that for someone
like the Kardashians, or for people who work in Hollywood
or celebrities, their face is also their money maker.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
It's a commodity. They need this as well.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
And I think that there was a really great Murray
Claire article that summed this up perfectly. It's for women
whose entire brand revolves around maintaining image, not just their own,
but also her families. This is specifically about Chris Jenna.
This glow up is business strategy as much as beauty philosophy,
which raises a bigger question, why are we still surprised
when older women in the public eye refuse to age

(31:17):
on anyone else's terms. With this though, and this conversation
and the fact that you can talk about, oh, I
had a facelift, but actually not showcase the enormous load
that having a facelift has on a human. It is
a major surgery. I think that we don't have that
level of transparency yet. And yes, of course you can
go into plastic surgeon accounts on Instagram and you can

(31:37):
see before and after photos. I'm sure we've all seen
recovery photos from what a full facelift looks like, and
it is fucking harrowing, Like it is such a frightening
thing to look at. But the more that we see
the glorified before and afters, I think, the less we
think about the process that it takes to get there.
We also forget about the real severe complication that can

(32:00):
arise from a very elective, non necessary surgery that we're
having done. Because we're told that these beauty standards need
to be upheld. And I would be lying if I
didn't say that it in some ways affects me and
that I don't mean effect like I'm not traumatized by
it by any means, but I mean like, I see
these things. I see someone like Chris Jenna looking fucking

(32:21):
amazing post surgery, and I go, maybe I'm going to
have that when I'm fifty or forty five or fifty five. Like,
I entertain the thoughts of it. I say it as
jokes with my friends when we're all talking about it
we're out for dinner, But there's a part of me
that also thinks, well, then this can become achievable, and
it can become attainable. One thing, though, that I do
think puts celebrities in a real rock and a hard

(32:44):
place is that we expect them to answer the questions
that are asked of them. And if a celebrity has
had plastic surgery, like for example, and I shouldn't say
that she has for certain we don't know. But a
really good example of someone who denies ever doing anything
is Paris Hilton. Recently, she was quoted in an interview saying,
I am completely natural. I've never even had botox. I

(33:07):
just have a fantastics ten skinstep routine, which seems unfathomable.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
It really does.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, because the eyebrows don't move when she says it
in the interview.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
If you watch the video, her face is paralyzed, like
absolutely paralyzed.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
It's given.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
When Jaylo was like, I just have a lot of
olive oil and my skincare routine, I'm like, Babe, we're
not blind.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
We're also not stupid. Come on.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
But also I kind of feel for them in some
way because I'm like, well, you've been asked a question.
You don't owe anyone the autonomy over knowing whatever it
is that you want to do to your body, But
because you are a celebrity and you're in the media,
then there is an expectation for that.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
We wanted to get your take on this, and so
we put up some poles on Instagram and these have
as at the time of recording, there are nearly ten
thousand votes on these poles. One of the questions we
asked was do you think celebrity should be honest about
getting plastic surgery? And seventy four percent of people said, yeah, yes,
I prefer the truth. We then asked, is it more
harmful to deny cosmetic work or promote it like it's

(34:07):
no big deal? Thirty six percent of people said denial
is worse. Only four percent of people said promoting it
casually is worse, but sixty percent of people said both
can be equally damaging. And this last question that we
asked is where I think my perspective changes. I think
privacy is acceptable if people don't want to talk about it.

(34:30):
I do find it a little bit harmful if they
are in the denial space, but I particularly have an
issue with it if they are monetizing or they are
profiting off of the claim that that is something that
is natural. And like, for example, what I mean is
that if someone has had life a suction, or if
they've had a BBL, but they're selling fitness programs or

(34:52):
nutrition programs to look the way that they look, That's
where I really draw the line. Like if you've had
a facelift and you're selling t to a customer that
you got that look by using a serum, I find
it particularly misleading. I find it like you're really taking
advantage of a customer in that way. If you have
had a BBL and you're selling a squat program to

(35:13):
do at the gym, Like that's bullshit to me. I'm
just like stop taking advantage of people with the fact
that they don't know what you have done to attain it.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I don't care that you've had surgery.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
I personally don't have a problem with it, and I
don't have a problem with you talking about it. I
do have a problem with you manipulating people's perception of
what you had to do to get that.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Yeah, there's a great quote from Jamila Jamil that I
came across, which says, and she obviously has very staunch
beliefs in the space, and she wrote, ninety five percent
of celebrities and influences are complicit in the assault on
women by not saying anything about it, by not calling
out the use of photoshop, and actually by perpetuating the
narrative that looks are the most important thing. By only
ever talking about looks and having surgeries without admitting it,

(35:57):
you were committing a crime against your gender.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Is that a little bit extreme.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Potentially, But I do think it plays into this idea
that without having the knowledge, especially when so many of
these celebrities have commercial brands that are based around the
way they look. You know, we made the reference of
Kim Kardashian having weight trainers. She also had appetite suppressing
lollipops there for one point in time, and it's like,
it's quite contradictory to have someone selling a product that

(36:23):
is supposed to improve or enhance your looks when we
know that so many of these celebrities looks are enhanced
by cosmtic surgery. But I guess the thing with Chris Jenner,
and I know that she's a bit of an outlying
case because the transformation was so dramatic. Normally we see
subtle enhancements, like for example, j Lo and Hat the way,
and we're trying to speculate as to whether surgery has

(36:44):
taken place, and there's a lot of back and forth
around media. There's, like you said, TikTok doctors who are
all over it trying to figure out exactly what it
has been done. Is it non surgical or is it surgical?

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Is it lasers? Is it filler?

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Like there's so much speculation that surrounds these things, where
in Chris Jenna's case, the transformation was so unbelievably fucking dramatic.
Even if she wanted to, there's no way that she
can chop that up to coconut water. I don't think
that she was in a place or would have ever
had the opportunity to deny having the surgery that she's had. But,
like I said, you know, and I think, going back

(37:17):
to this idea of transparency, I think it's caveatated by
the fact that it's not actually transparent. We know surgery
has taken place, but we don't know how much. Also,
we know that the post that she's posting on her
social media on Instagram are highly photoshopped, so you only
see this beautification of the surgery. You don't actually see
the implications of it, which is the thing that I

(37:39):
kind of have an issue with. I wish we saw
more of the process. I'm like, if you're going to
be transparent, show me the recovery, show me the drainage.
Like I want to see. I don't want my Instagram
feed to get fucked up again, but like I.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Want to see.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
I want to see that side of it, because I
think that that would deter me, and maybe it would
deter a greater population of people who feel this pressure
to continue to look a certain way, especially as we
start to slowly age. And I guess the thing is
celebrities are damned if they do, and they're darned if
they don't. I mean, I think if people like Sarah
Jessica Parker, who was criticized and the media could not

(38:16):
stop talking about her aging face when they did the
reboot of Sex and the City. So on one side,
it doesn't matter whether you age gracefully or seemingly not gracefully.
You're going to be spoken about if you're a woman
who works in this industry, So if you're making your
money from the way that you look, I understand why
there is this pressure to go down the route of surgery,

(38:37):
but it is becoming more commonplace for people who are
not working in media and who are not celebrities to
start opting into surgeries as well.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
We've often spoken about that.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
I think you can be the victim of something whilst
also contributing to the issues.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
That that thing causes.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
And this is particularly relevant for women in media and
beauty standards. And what I mean by it is that
all of us are kind of all under this pressure
to not age. We're all victims of the beauty standards
that are enforced on us. But by getting things like
cosmetic injectibles, by getting things like surgeries, are we not
then further perpetuating the beauty standards that other women have

(39:14):
to look up to.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
And I think that.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
It's quite hard to actually separate those like are the
Kardashians adding to the beauty pressure that we all feel
to look a certain way? Or are they just victims
of what the world has expected from them? And you know,
like you just said in the reboot of Sex and
the City and just like that, these women were on
our screens when they were younger, and so when they
came back, I think they were under a lot of

(39:38):
pressure to look how they did before. But then the
world criticized them because they looked like they had made
effort to look like they did before. However, I am
curious about where the line between transparency and over promotion
actually lies, because I think within myself I have found it.
And you guys might remember on the seventh of March,

(40:00):
Meghan Traynor posted on Instagram that she had done a
collaboration with a breast implant company. Now she tagged them
it was paid promotion in the top of it, and
she spoke about, you know, wanting a new change for
her and that she wanted to go with a natural
look and so she used this particular brand of implant,
and she ended up performing a song, you know, her

(40:20):
song all about that Bass, where the lyrics are, yeah,
it's pretty clear I ain't no size too Well. Two
weeks ago she was performing it in Huntington Beach and
she changed the lyrics of the song to yeah, it's
pretty clear I got some new boobs. So, on one hand,
I think we have transparency of saying yes, I actually
have had surgery, and I myself find that quite helpful

(40:42):
because I think it demystifies that this has been a
natural thing, that they just happened to look like that,
and maybe if I did the same things that they do,
I could look like her too.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
But I do.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Wonder whether an outright promotion of it in something like
a paid collaboration really raises issues with the fact that if.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
You're a brand partner with something like a breast.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Augmentation company, you're not able to speak about any negative
side effects. You know, We've done a whole episode with
doctor Kirsty Seawood on breast implant illness, and like you
just said, Laura, you want to see more of like
the after effects of what these surgeries can actually create,
What actually goes into the recovery. What are some of
the bad side effects of having surgery like this to

(41:23):
achieve a certain look. Well, I think it's particularly problematic
when we get into paid collaboration world where you're not
actually allowed to talk about those negative side effects because
you might have you might get sued from the company
that have paid you to put an implant inside of
your body.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Or when you're getting paid for something, a bias is
instantly created. And I know, like there's been a lot
of discussion around this specific example with Megan Trainer, and
I think it's because, well it's twofold one. Because it
is a very specific type of promotion. So it is
for a company called Motiva USA, which is like their
breast implant. It's the actual silicone implant. It's not a

(41:59):
so institute, it's not a specific surgeon. It is the
specific product, which then means that patients walk into a
clinic and say I want this product, which is something
that should be prescribed by the healthcare professional. So I
think that's one great area. But the second part of
this is is that I think so many people originally
loved Megan Trainer because of everything that she stood for

(42:21):
in this whole body inclusivity space. It just shows that
there is this incredible pressure on women who are celebrities
to continuously reinvent themselves. I think for anyone who watched
the Taylor Swift documentary of bazillion years ago, she talked
about how there is this constant need to reinvent the
person that you are, to stay interesting in media, to
stay forward facing, to be able to continue to commercialize yourself.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
And that's exactly what she's done.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, she took it a step further because she really
commercialized herself, but also she's gone through this kind of
like reinvention. Megan Trainer has, like she's spoken openly about
being on ozepic, she's obviously spoken openly now about having
her breast done, and so the person that she was
that we all know her for from fifteen years ago
is a reinvented version now and there is a part

(43:07):
of that that I really think is admirable that she's
so open about it. But I also agree, I think
that there are a lot of problems when we go
down the path of normalizing plastic surgery so much that
it's not normalized, it is absolutely fundamentally promoted by a
paid promotion, I guess for me and I really don't
know what the antidote to all of this is. Because
it's evident the plastic surgery is here to stay. It's

(43:29):
evident that it has become so accessible and so normal.
But I think it's really important to also know that
not all plastic surgery is built the same, Not all
surgeons have the same expertise, you know, experience qualifications and skills,
the level of accessibility of people flying to Turkey or
flying to Thailand and getting things done overseas because they

(43:49):
simply want the procedure, they want the outcome, but they're
not necessarily fully cognizant of what is going to happen
to them in the recovery process. And I think for
a lot of the ticks that I've seen or people
that I've spoken to who have been through major plastic surgery,
a lot of them have spoken about how the recovery
was way harder than they ever expected it to be.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Kanye's mum died yeah, an elective plastic surgery, so I
think it's particularly interesting that the Kardashians are quite transparent
about it.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Well, there's also been like some very full on lawsuits,
class action lawsuits across Australia to show that there are
some negligences that can occur in the plastic industry. I
think that the pendulum has swung so far now in
the opposite direction that we have become too desensitized to
plastic surgery. I'm not saying it should be stigmatized. I'm
not saying that we should shame people who get it done,

(44:38):
but I definitely don't think it should be an expectation.
And it's I think liberating the more that we see
women who are quote unquote aging gracefully in media, because
it gives people the ability to choose, you know, choose
your own ending. I guess in terms of this really
immense beauty culture and beauty standards that we all seem.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
To have to live by. Yeah, I don't even know
where I land on this myself. I think I can
see everyone's perspective here. I can see.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
People's perspective where they're like, we should not be talking
about this at all, because the more we talk about it,
the more it normalizes it, the more it impacts young
impressionable minds to thinking that they need certain things, they
need certain procedures to be beautiful. And that's a criticism
that we have even received. And I understand where people
are coming from. Like there was a time on this
podcast where I quite naively and yes, this is something

(45:26):
I probably regret saying. I kind of likened, you know,
botox or like any cosmetic injectible to being not that
different from getting your hair dyed. And boy, oh boy,
did I get some feedback about last you know, where
I was oversimplifying it was the fact that there are
complications that can arise from injectibles.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
There's not that many complications.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
That can arise from coloring your hair, Like maybe you'll
get a bad hair color, maybe it will burn, maybe.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
It will split.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
But I think the interesting thing and that Keisha, is
your own bias in terms of how you had become
desensitized to something that you did. This is the thing, right,
we are able to make validations or excuses for the
choices that we make. And I don't want to say
this in terms of shaming anyone who chooses to get
any injectibles or surgery or whatever.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Like We've been very open.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I've spoken about every single thing I've ever had done
to my face. Some things I regretted some things I
fucking love and continue to do, and as soon as
I've pushed this baby out, I will go and get
my profilo. But I do take issue with and I
think it's a very common statement that a lot of
people make, and we've probably made it on this podcast
before as well, is that when people say I don't

(46:33):
have any issue when people go and get surgeries or
plastic surgeries to change something that they don't like about
themselves to make themselves more confident. On one hand, I
don't have an issue with that, But on the other hand,
I do have an issue with that. And the reason
for that is because I ask the question, why do
you not feel confident in yourself?

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Why are you not happy with that.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Thing that you want to get changed that is completely subjective,
that is completely esthetic looking, And if the answer to
that is is because it doesn't match up to society's
expectations of beauty, then I say that's a really fucked thing,
because you have a insecurity that's being created in you
because you don't look the way that you have been
told from all the sources and all the input that

(47:14):
is the way that you should look.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
So ultimately, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Fix the source, don't fix yourself, And I don't think
that that fixes the problem. And so I challenge that
statement now when it's like, well, I don't care if
people go and get something done if it makes them
feel better about themselves.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Do you think that we're able to fix the source? Though?

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Like, and I'm truly asking this because I don't know
whether the pressure that we're all under to conform to
beauty standards. I don't know if I have it in
me to psychologically fight that. I don't know if I
have it in me to fix the body image issues
that have been conditioned into me for thirty years. I
completely see where you're coming from, and I wholeheartedly agree

(47:51):
with it. I don't know if I'm going to be
able to escape it and get to a point where
I kind of accept myself. And so it raises a
question in me where I'm like, yes, I do want
transparency because I don't want people lying about what they've
done to achieve certain things. But does that then just
further perpetuate what I feel I need to do and

(48:12):
does the goalposts keep on shifting? You know, I've had filler,
I've had botox, now that I'm seeing people get these
facelifts that make them look forty years younger. What's gonna
be next? Like, what am I gonna want next? When
am I actually going to reach a point where I
look at my face in the mirror and I go, yeah,
I'm happy with this.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
This is good.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I guess that that's kind of like takes us full
circle in terms of what we wanted to talk about,
because the reality is is we are receiving more transparency now,
but is it enough transparency or is it the kind
of transparency that is actually helpful. I even think of
people on a smaller scale, like Sky Wheatley documenting that
she had the.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Cat eye surgery recently.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
We also have people like Indy Clinton who had a
rhinoplasti recently document that as well. And I think for
so long we've been demanding transparency, but now that we're
receiving transparency, we're realizing that actually it isn't the antidote
that we've all wanted for so long.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
And you can see that from.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
The backlash that both of these Australian women received. Indy
Clinton has received so much backlash around her having this
rhinoplasti and talking about it openly, people commenting on the
fact that they like the way she looked better before
rather than now. It's been a really negative spiral across
her social media. Also, on the flip side of that,
the same thing happened with Sky Wheatley when she was
documenting it. So I do think it's like you're dan

(49:30):
if you do and you're danned if you don't. I
don't think that there is a solution to hear, but
it's interesting to try and unpack the two realities that
surround plastic surgery. All right, it is time for suck
and sweet Kisha.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
I know your circus. You're stuck in the studio.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
No, I was in a real foul mood at the
start of this episode. I feel like I've kind of
come good now, Thank you, Laurie, You've woken me up.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
My suck for the week is that.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
For some reason, my anxiety has been absolutely fucked for
the past couple of weeks, and every now and then
I feel like I'm really on top of it. And
I think that anyone who has disordered anxiety may relate
to this. You can feel as though you're doing all
of the things that you've got to do and that
you know, you're just kind of cruising along normally in life,
and even for myself, I've been like, maybe I don't

(50:14):
have anxiety anymore, and then it just hits you like
a ton of bricks. And recently, I don't know if
this is maybe getting a bit too specific, but for
some reason, I've just had these flashes of really really
terrifying in horrible situations. Sometimes have happened when I'm asleep,
so that like in a nightmare style, but they can
also happen when I'm just like walking around, and they

(50:37):
have been so bad lately that I feel as though
I've kind of built up some strategies to try and
manage my anxiety.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
I'm also medicated for it.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
But then sometimes it will just hit me in a
sense where I'm like, where the fuck did that come
from and why?

Speaker 3 (50:51):
And I can't.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Really alleviate myself of that because it just came so randomly,
like things like, you know, I had Delilah next to
me the other day and we were unpacking things into
the car, and I just had this vision of her getting.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Hit by a car.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Or I would be walking to work and I will
have a vision of like the wall collapsing and like
really traumatic, horrendous things, and for some reason, they are
just infiltrating my mind at the moment, and it's been
really awful to kind of manage. And I'm not sleeping
very well, and I think that that makes it even worse,
because I'm feeling tired and exhausted, and it makes the

(51:27):
anxiety worse.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
What do you do when you have these sorts of
like I don't even know what to describe the mass
because it is a word that describes these sort of
like doomsday type thoughts, and I think it's something and
not to like relate it to motherhood at all, but
it is something that a lot of mums talk about
after they've had kids, like thinking about all the awful
things that could happen or like near misses that could
have happened. Every so often, I will have like this,

(51:51):
and it's definitely not something that I have to struggle
with day to day with the intensity that it sounds
like you are at the moment, But I will think
about a near expl sperience that could have ended very
differently with something horrible happening to the children, and then
you get into this awful like oh my god, Like,
and I wonder whether it's a self protection mechanism so
that you're a hypervigilant, or whether it is just I

(52:13):
don't know, your brain doing things that you can't control,
whether it comes from anxiety, Like I don't know what
the premise is or why it kind of unfolds for
some people.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Yeah, and I feel the same.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
I think for me, it like obviously happens a bit
more when I'm in periods of stress and like moving house,
and we've had a lot going on lately, so maybe
that's the cause of it.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
But yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I just wanted to speak about it today because I
think that every now and then I have these realizations
that I'm like, oh, that's right, I live with disordered anxiety,
Like this is something that unfortunately I'm going to have
to manage time and time and time again, and maybe
the management strategies that I have in place right now
are actually not working to their full capacity.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
So that's been a bit of a downer. But my
high for.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
The week is that we've moved into our new house
and I'm just yeah, I'm actually just so excited for
this next chapter. Another kind of part of this is
that I spoke quite a while ago, it would be
about eight months ago, about my boyfriend sitting the biggest
exams of his career, and we got some really, really
really good news on the day that we moved into

(53:14):
the house and that he passed that exam, And so
I just feel like we're moving into this completely separate
you know. The energy of this home is just different.
It is a no study zone for a while, and
it feels so good to kind of be in this
more positive space. I think living in the other house,
there was always like there was always the thought of, like,

(53:34):
we just need to get through this, like we just
need to get through this study period and this period
of like intense stress and anxiety, and then we'll get
to enjoy our lives. And I feel like now we're
kind of at that point and we're about to go
into this fun enjoyment phase.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
So yeah, that's a massive high for me. What's your
second suite? My stuck for the week is?

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I mean, and it sounds stilly because I know I
kind of spoke about it quickly at the beginning of
the episode, but being away from the girls as much
as I like being here, and I really wanted to
come and spend this time with my sister and getting
work done. I just miss them, and Matt sends me
little updates, and he sent me a photo of them
this morning on their way to daycare and school, and
they both had their backpacks on their front and he
was like, look, they're both pregnant.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
They're front packs. They were wearing their backpacks.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
As bellies and they were pretending to be pregnant because
they're obsessed now with pregnancy and having a baby in
the house. I think sometimes, especially for me, I had
these real moments of gratitude when I'm away from my family,
and then I just can't wait to get back to them.
So that for me is my stuck is being away
from the girls. But they are arriving. They're coming in

(54:37):
like five days, and then we have a week here
together with the fam, so that's going to be great.
And then my suite for the week is being here
and having a week of dedicated time to designing, to
having business meetings with my sister, all of the stuff
that we just don't get to do. And there is
a big juggle that happens in life at the moment
between parenting, trying to maintain a great relationship, sometimes drink

(55:01):
eight glasses of water a day, see my friends, and
also run two or actually two and a half very
independent businesses. And often I find that life on cut
requires so much of me and so much time and input,
and then Tony May is always there with its hand up.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Yeah, sorry, we're the needy child, aren't we.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Well, there's so much to do, and it's a really
like hard balance, and I think for anyone who has
multiple projects on the go, it's kind of like the
squeaky wheel gets the oil. You know, the project that
is requiring the attention is the one that you put
your attention in, and then all of a sudden, the
other ones like, hey remember me, Like I'm now need
attention or I'm struggling or whatever. So these weeks that

(55:40):
we get to come and do this together my sister
usually have like a work planning period over Christmas, and
then we also have these like a couple of overseas
holidays that we do together working holidays, And for me,
they are so enriching and I get so much work
done and I get so excited about the business. And
after sixteen years of doing Tony May, it's so nice

(56:01):
to still have these like really really sort of inspiration
filled periods where I get so excited about what work
looks like and designing new collections and we're doing a
shootover here, and so yeah, my sweet for the week
is absolutely just being able to have a job that
I fucking love every day and show up to work out.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
So that is my suite.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
And then soon my kids will be here and all
balance will be restored and I probably will be thinking
that I should have enjoyed the time that they are
away more, and.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
We're always speaking about it. I'm sorry for saying that
I didn't want to be here. I also love my job.
I have a great job, and I'm so excited that
you get to be over there with Aleisha because she's
so much fun.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
Yeah, she's the best.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Well, guys, that is it from us, And if you
love the episode or you want to find out anymore,
you can go and follow us at our discussion group
at Life on Cut discussion group. That is where all
the juicy conversation goes down. You can also join the
conversation on Instagram or in our reviews.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
There's lots of places where you can find us. You know,
the drill, tell you mum, so your dad, tell your dog.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Tear friends and share the love cause we love Loilad.