“All Of Them Were Women. The Majority Of Them Were Mothers.” Why Indy Clinton Spent $8k On A Private Investigator To Find Her Trolls

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on Cat. I'm Laura Brittany. Now we're dubbing this twenty
twenty five. It is the year of taking on the trolls,
especially on social media, and.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
There is no better feeling.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
They're taking on the droll.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I mean, I haven't taken one on yet, but I'm.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Written for those that are. Rid's ready to though.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I have been trying, and to Laura, there have been
people where I've said, you know, like I want to
go some certain people, and Laura is like bring it
in hold.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
She's like, hold, hold your fucking horse's power. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, look, the reason why we're talking about this is,
you guys might remember a few months ago we were
speaking about Tattle, the online.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Gossip forum cesspit of the Internet.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Tattle life is what it's called.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
And the reason why this is relevant is because they're
very guests who kind of brought tattle life into I
guess public knowledge or the public sphere is who we
have here today, and that is we are joined by
the wonderful Indy Clinton.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Hello. Now, you probably know Indy Clinton from being TikTok's
favorite mum.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
I think that's what we can w You've have almost
three million followers, followers, followers, you have almost three million followers.
You're a mom of three kids under five, which is
also just insane in itself, a business owner, and also
an incredibly savvy content creator. There's a couple of things
that we are going to cover with Indy today, and

(01:29):
that is, I mean, firstly, the trolling and the whole
conversation that unfolded online around having a private investigator come
and figure out exactly who these people are behind these
troll accounts. And also something that we talked about, I mean,
amongst other things, but something that we talked about recently
around plastic surgery, and you've come out publicly speaking about

(01:51):
having rhine and plasty and the effects of what it's
like when plastic surgery doesn't always go the way that
you intend it to Indy, Welcome to the pod.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Thank you for having me, ladies, thank you for coming.
Very exciting.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
We did slighten g DMS a couple of times, but.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, you like me on red but you've replied to
brand so I'm like, bit devo, you know what, I
am so bad on DMS and I know that sounds
like you're making an excuse, but truly, like I'll read
a DM when I'm like putting all my kids into
the car, and then I just completely forget.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
You have probably a million unread dms.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Like when you have that many followers and that much
coming through every day, you're like, I'm absolutely going to
reply to that.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Person, and then it's like a spade of spade.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I'm obviously in his favorite's Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Left you on Red, I'm going to hell. I'm so sorry,
go to Hell. I kind of even blame like baby brain,
Like at least if it was you and you left
me on.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Red, you coulde oh baby No, I think when you
got three kids under five, you can blame baby brain
for kind of whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Well, we do want to get into like everything that
Laurie just said, and there are so many layers to it,
but we kick start with accidentally unfiltered your most embarrassing moment,
and I don't know why, but I feel like you're
gonna have a good one.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
No, I don't think you should say that, because I
do think I document most my embarrassing moments, Like there's
I kind of have learned to just roll with the embarrassment,
because otherwise you're just constantly got to be embarrassed, whether
you have kids or not. So I just I feel
like I don't have that many embarrassing moments that are
really that bad. Like I leave the store with you know,
like little grocery baskets attached my arms to which I

(03:18):
did see that the other day. That's pretty embarrassing, but
I get over it pretty quickly. So I was trying
to think about this for a while, and I was like,
what was super embarrassing that lives in my brain rent free?
And I do remember a moment when I was sixteen
and I was babysitting, right, and like sixteen the pivotal
moment of like you're trying to create your identity and
like be a cool girl, and like I would always
babysit every weekend.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
So it's like the most formative year.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Right, and like instead of going out partying, I would
just babysit. Anyway, this was quite embarrassing to me because
I feel like they still hate me until this day
because I just don't know what happened. I don't know
if I had a brain fart or something. But you know,
when the parents get home late and you're exhausted, so
obviously you fall asleep on the couch. It's like one am,
two am, and you're asleep on the couch, just like
pretending you're awake, but then you like doze off. They know,
so they know, right, And like so I was sixteen,

(04:02):
and to paint a picture, I had this long, blonde, surfy, stringy,
ruddy head down to my arse and I'd wear like
little beaded choker chains and like twenty of them and like.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Kids, and you're like, I don't know, I don't know
if I should trust this.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I don't know about this one. But like that was
in my tight I short era and my crochet little
crop tops and like probably so severely sunburned that my
dad grounded me and he'd only let me babysit, like
you know what I mean, Like that type of vibe.
So I would fall asleep on and off on the couch,
acting like I'm not asleep. And they got home at
like two am. I was super delusional and tired, and
I just got up and they're like, we'll drop you home,

(04:36):
thank you so much. They'll just down the road. They
dropped me home and I woke up the next day
in my bed and I had the cat collar in
my hands in bed with me. I stole my cat collar. Guys,
to this day, it's the most embarrassing thing ever. Number One,
I didn't even fucking know they had a cat, Right,

(04:58):
I had this cat collar in my hand, and I
obviously now now I think of it because I'm like,
how the fuck did I get this off the cat's
neck without knowing? Like, right, I thought it was one
of my chokers, So obviously they dropped me home. I
had it in my hands. They're probably thinking, what the
fuck does this chick have our cat collars in her handful?
Like what she's doing? But I thought it was one

(05:18):
of my beaded chokers. Being that delusional and tired, I
wake up and it's in my bed. The next day
I had to go around and be like, I'm so sorry,
I've got your cat home, but I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Are you a sleepwalker?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
No? But I have no idea how I got this
cat collar in my hand in my bed. It's so
embarrassing because they know me. They have three children who
are now grown up. The parents have always been weird
to me, right and I'm like, it's she stole from
the I'm sure they they probably think I fucking like,
I don't know this hat abuse the cat for its collar.

(05:53):
I have no idea how this cat collar got in
my hands. And I will never live it down because
they don't like me anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
They know they would have just been like, idn't even
known that you had it until you came back with it.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
No, the cat has jingle jingle bells on it to
like make sure they know where the cat is, like
wearing a jingling in the car. I literally like, I'm
so embarrassed to this day, like I remember it so well,
Like I'm so embarrassed that they never have they never
had me back. But I feel like that really created
my identity because and that kind of like released all

(06:22):
dignity from my body, because I like, if you steal
somebody's cat's collar without knowing they even had a cat, Fuck,
what doings.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
If you steal the cat?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I think? Really? Yeah, and the cat collars worse. The
cat's an easy excuse. I'm so sorry your cat escape.
I just found it on the street, Like, no, I
got your cat collar? What did you do to my cat?
I don't know that was pretty embarrassing, and I won't
lift it down.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I love that that is the peak embarrassment for you,
Whereas like, I think you've just gotten to a point
now where you're like, nothing else embarrasses me anymore. No,
I think you've come to a place of just acceptance
in your life. That's probably more what it is.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Literally, like I was trying to think what was more
embarrassing that or thinking how I was going to labor
because my waters broke. But I went in they said, oh, no,
that it's just we that's more embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
That's why.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Really the fuck? I was like, that's not embarrassing at all,
Like that really that's it.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, I pissed my pants and thought my waters no
way see it?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay. I don't know what's wrong with my brain then,
because I was like, oh, that's not embarrassing, okay. Question,
you have been working in content.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
This is probably something that a lot of people don't
know because people know you as being this relatable mum online.
But you've been working online and have been creating content
long before you were a mum. What got you into
I guess the world of not even necessarily being an influencer,
but being a content creator and wanting to share parts
of your life online.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Well, I got into it super young. I was like
fifteen or sixteen, Like I just kind of fell into it,
like literally at school. I just started, like after school,
I was posting. You know. I grew up in a
really beautiful part of the world, and it was like
very natural to me just to take photos on my
iPod Touch and me climbing trees in my crochet little
crop tops and some sumburn yeah, you know, and like
beaded little ankleers like that was just very natural. I

(07:58):
wasn't trying to become an influencer because that wasn't even
a job or a career path that I could even choose.
But then I kind of got on when Instagram all
kind of started, and then I remember like doing a
shout out for shout out with my friend to grow
followers who was already quite big on Instagram, like the
like for like literally and then it just kind of
grew from there really quickly. I remember I think I
was with because Elouise has been my best friend for

(08:20):
sixteen years now. She's my EA, which is so amazing
to work together, but so Eloise has been there from
the start, and I used to kind of recruit her
to take my photos during like like lunch break and
at recess time, and I would obviously want to keep
it really arty and in theme with like what I
would post. It would go to the Mulberry tree down
near like the gymneys, like no Word of a Lie,

(08:41):
and I would like sometimes pick Moulbray's and Elowis would
be in your school universe. Well, sometimes I would change,
like so when I hit like year eleven and twelve,
when you could drive and you had to go and
move your car, I would keep closing there like for
boohoo and stuff where I'd have to change in them
and would go down. You're like working at lunchtime. They
literally doing I've been hustling since I was fifteen.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, like you're like, okay, lunch break contentation to get
back to science.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Eloise was the one they would always get in trouble,
but not me. That'd make Eloise, why are you out
of it? She's like I was moving into this car
with her and like so we would always just be hustling.
We'd go to driveways, we'd go to people's apartment blocks,
and like do it like in their brick walls and
things like that, because I'm like, I have a deadline.
I'm sorry, guys, like I don't even know what I'm doing,
but I have a deadline. I have to send this
photo by this afternoon and post it. And like I

(09:22):
would never obviously wear makeup, I would be flustered, I'd
have red cheeks, I'd have a messy ponytail. But like
that's kind of what started my authenticity, not because I
tried to be authentic, because I just had no other choice,
because I was just like doing it in between school classes.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
And so were you've been paid at that time?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, but not much? I mean, I mean, but what's
not much? It's all relevant, right, so what But it
first started my dad created kind of like a media
kit when I first popped up, you know, before a management,
when I was like fifteen, maybe I had turned sixteen,
and my mom was like, nothing's free in this world.
Dad kind of set up this media kit and I
was charging like fifty dollars a post. And I actually

(09:57):
found that media kit in my hot mail account, like
I would send that's mad, which was amazing. It was
just like a few photos and like the photos were
so crazy. What I showed was my type of content.
It was like some shashimi, Like I was out of
a sushi restaurant, like some bright orange sashimi would like
you know that, What's that filter that everyone would use
on Visco like a.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Two or like blood wig or something ye like eve
inst and has the colors but then like made the
background kind of dark like, so I would use that
and then it was like my chickens, me feeding the chickens.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Are corn like really bright colors, like very like, but it.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Was off the time, like we all remember that era
if anyone flicks back through to like twenty fourteen of Instagram,
like that's when it was right, and.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
It was just Instagram was a post of food that
I had filtered and then I put a border on it.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Remember when you.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Put the white border. They were tragic. Oh my god,
they were tragic, those borders, weren't they? That was me?

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well you, I mean, you got into content creations so young,
but then obviously you also had kids young. I feel
like this has been like a very natural progression for
you in terms of following your life stages, also becoming
an early doctor on TikTok at the time when not
a lot of people were really transitioned to TikTok or
using it in a savvy way. Yeah, when you had
kids and you started to share parts of your life

(11:13):
on TikTok, especially, how did you kind of navigate those
early stages of like what is motherhood and coming into
this new phase of your life? But also going right,
I'm creating this community with people who either have kids
who are interested in what it is that I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Mm. Well, I think because I've grown up doing social
media as my only job besides of course, like babysitting
and a gelato store job for six weeks before I
went traveling, I think I knew what I guess my
whole life. I've had to be very careful through my like,
you know, older years, going high school and things like that,
like going out and drinking, because I've always had a

(11:48):
brand and a name, you know, so I've always had
to be super conscious of what I post and like
how people perceive me because I had to kind of
experience the consequences from a young age, and even with
social media being such a new platform, even my school,
like they would suspend me and my dad was like, no,
you have no right to suspend her because she posted
a photo of her friend holding flowers and you could

(12:09):
see the friend's cleavage in a school uniform. Like that
is not right, like or like something I post a
photo from home or at home and the school didn't
like it. They tried to suspend me, and my dad's like,
absolutely not. This is under our ruth. She can do this.
And it was such a new thing, like they just
kept wanting to suspend me because they didn't understand. Because
they didn't understand, and then my dad was like no,
like and he was really good because this was so

(12:29):
new to my parents. They didn't They all wanted to
support me, but they obviously were like fuck, I don't know,
like what's right and what's wrong.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
But we've spoken to Britney Saunders before. She was like
a really early adapter as well. She's like YouTube really
young at school and she tells stories about her school
doing the same thing. I guess it was this uncharted
territory where they used to call it to the side
and be like you need to stop, you know, for
your sake, and they used to say you're gonna get bullied.
But then they were like, you need to stop because
it's inappropriate or for whatever reason. She never stopped either,

(12:58):
But I think it was that. I mean it was
new terry for everyone teaches, principals, school students, yourself as
a student, Yeah, but when you became a mom, you
were only twenty two.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Was your journey into parenthood one that was planned or
did you just fall into it? And I say that
because twenty two is relatively young to say I'm gonna,
you know, totally start popping out kids.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
You know, I really wanted kids young my whole life.
And I think probably because my mum was a young
mom and I had five under like she started when
she was twenty one and had five and seven years,
so I think and seeing her like bounce back and
her energy and you know, she was superhands on. She's
still superhans on and having that energy for us, I
think that's you know, that's all I knew and that's
what I wanted. I'm like, I've always like I've been

(13:39):
one of those girls since from a young age. You know,
there's ones that are obsessed with baby borns, like up
until they're like probably fourteen. Puppy surprise, no, no, that
was me, Like I would go to this shop in
Mossman called Wear It Again Sam, and they used to
kind of trade in you remember this, I probably did
in high school and you trade in like baby born clothes.
Oh my god, it sounds like I've a fetish for babybornes.
I did not want fet it. I was super youngest

(14:01):
where you like trade in babyborn clothes and getting new
cute outfits for it, like I like had that we
and I see it now with my daughter BAMBI like
she is like maternal, like you see you know, she
asked me the other day like she wants a baby
in her belly, but specifically she wants it like pepper pigs,
baby fucking brother or sister whatever ev. And I'm like,
she's like I want that baby. I'm like, oh, you
want a pig pig baby? You want pig ev? How

(14:23):
And I'm like, Oh'm gonna like I see she's very maternal.
So it does. I feel like it can be really
be like born into you, like you had that mother
chicken mother hen or a mother chicken shit. So I've
always wanted to be a young mum. So it kind
of transitioned from that Instagram where I was doing that
from a really young age. And then obviously Instagram became
super saturated and every girl and boy was posting trying

(14:44):
to become an influencer because it became a career. And
I feel like I kind of went through a phase
when I was maybe like eighteen nineteen twenty where I
was just posting like Faudiana photos like of my ass,
not really doing much like I was going on gap years,
but I had no real purpose to my content, and
I feel like now, especially in this competitive industry, you
need to like post with a purpose or you know,

(15:05):
post with some sort of niche. You have to like
what makes you somebody that somebody else wants to follow.
And I think early on I had that, like Instagram
is so new and it was very authentic or whatever.
So then I kind of transitioned. And then I met
my husband, and he obviously he wants to have kids
because we have an age gap. We're fifteen years apart,
so like he was ready to have kids. So I
feel like if I, like, if it was somebody else

(15:28):
or if he was at my age or whatever, like
there's no way he would have been ready. But it
aligns perfectly because I was like, I want to have
kids junk, Like, I'm surprised I didn't have a child
on our first day, the first day.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
But what was that time like for you, Because when
you're twenty two, I would assume that not necessarily a
lot of other friends in your immediate circle at having kids.
Yeah no, and like that everyone talks about the village
and like it takes a village to raise, you know,
a family, But what did that look like for you
in terms of support and having kids so young?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well, like, I'm still waiting for this village to come
knock on my door, Like I'm actually I don't know
if they got lost in sea or whatever, but like
they have not come knocking on my door just yet.
But like, of course, I've got my I have a
beautiful support network. I've got my family who just lived
down the road, my parents, and you know, they help
where they can. But because they had kids so young,
they're still so young. You know, they're like in their
fifties and my dad just turned sixty and he's oldest

(16:21):
is like thirty five or whatever, So they're super young grandparents.
And my mom I see it from her perspective because
I'm the youngest and I had just finished school and
she's like, finally I can have some freedom. You know,
my youngest is just finished school. Then four years later
she gets pregnant. So my mom hasn't had much of
an opportunity to live her life because she's been a
full time mom and working or whatever. Then now she's

(16:43):
a grandma, and I do get it, because I get
always I'm always frustrated being like you never help. You know,
she helps where she can, and if I want to
stay in the city on the weekend with Ben or whatever,
she'll have to lock it in whatever. But you know,
she's not as hands on, hands on grandparenting.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
We talks about this recently, Like I was talking exactly
that about my parents.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't have kids, but all my siblings do.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, the same thing.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
I just think they've done it, like, yeah, my parents
did it with four kids.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
And I understand that grandparents want to be really involved
with lives.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
But it's also in my eyes, it's also okay if
they don't, if they've spent thirty years raising kids, they
didn't put their hand up to then do it again.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Totally, But they my parents are super hands on, like
they really my dad helps pretty much every day or
like because my son goes to preschool and the hours
are super short. So if I'm in the city, if
unless I leave by one thirty, then I can't I
won't make it in time to pick him up. So
they are really hands on. But it's kind of like
the different whereas my husband's parents they live in the country,

(17:43):
so they'll come and stay for a week. Yeah, so
do you know what I mean? It's like I get that.
I get the short sharp Like my dad will take
Navy for a coffee, which is great, but like a
half an hour here and there, Like it's amazing, but
it's not like that long one. But I get it
because they're like they still work as well. You know,
they're obviously not retired, like they have their life and
I totally get that. So they I have an amazing

(18:06):
support network like that, but obviously becoming a mom at
age twenty two is super young and like all my
friends were in their peak years. I was, was that
my peak year? Like I was? I guess I was
in my peak element. You're twenty two, you're kind of
going out, you're having fun, You've got no real responsibilities,
maybe a dog I think I got a dog at
twenty two, maybe twenty one with then, but yeah, it

(18:28):
was I definitely went through some really big adjustments with friendships.
You lose so many. I had all these friends at
my first baby shower for Navy, and I had this
extravagant baby shower on one of my friend's family houses
tennis courts, and then you kind of have the baby
and like they're not really showing up, but they want
to see it. And then like you just slowly slowly
if they bade and it's like it's I get it,

(18:48):
like probably I wasn't checking in on them, but I'm like,
it's so different when you have kids, Like nobody understands.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Also, when you say I probably wasn't checking in on them,
you're also I think it's like a moment of survival
when you first thrown into motherhood and you're just trying
to keep your own head above water, You're trying to
keep this baby alive. You're all consumed, like you don't
have time to just tap out of motherhood. And so
the friendships with people who don't have kids, I know,
it's like this unfair imbalance, but it's like for that

(19:16):
friendship to last. It's like the person that doesn't have
the kids almost has to tap in a little bit
more because it's impossible for you to show up to
the friendship with the same frequency.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, totally, and I get that, And that's why I
don't really hold any grudges against any of them, because
I'm like, it'll come, you know why, whenever they have kids,
like that will realize and I feel like there will
be a sense of guilt because it kind of went
from I don't know, you're in your peak twenties, you've
just finished school whatever, your early twenties, and you have
all these friends around you, and then all of a sudden,
it's just like, cool, I just have a baby, and

(19:46):
my husband works in the city, so I just have
a baby and a library and my parents who sometimes
you know, like it's a huge ship. But then obviously
you've got your your core friends who are there, but
you can't really lean on them twenty four to seven
because they've got their lives, their partners, and they live
far away. So like, unless you're really in motherhood and
you really understand what it's like like, you can't really relate.

(20:08):
And of course there's mother group mother motherhood mother for
the groups like mother I've never heard the fuck my
group my mother groups, mom, they're not called mother groups.
And yet I've got mother's groups, Oh my god. But
I've also never been in one either, so I've forgot
to mother's How do I know? I don't have kids
mother's grew no mother's group. So there's that. And like

(20:28):
I I'm super grateful for the ones that have stuck
around because I agree, like I've probably been a really
shit friend because I have been so I guess drowning
in motherhood for the last five years. I've just been
pregnant back to back, and I'm like, I literally don't
have time to even go on date with my husband,
let alone check in with how you are.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I mean, And I know, like a big part of
our conversation today is like around I guess for some
people it's very tangible the world of content, like we
all can kind of like look in and get these
little snippets of your life. But also I think in
terms for a lot of people who don't live their
life on social media, yeah, it feels very intangible. At
the same time, you create so much content around where
your life is at and what is happening in your

(21:08):
life in like the most relatable, candid way. And I
think that that is what people have engaged with in TikTok.
They're like, Okay, fuck, I'm drowning in motherhood and here's
this check who's saying it as it is and is
also chaotic and also drowning in motherhood at the same time.
How do you choose what you share? How do you
find the limitations in terms of like, Okay, these are

(21:28):
the parts of my life that I'm okay with sharing,
and these are the parts of.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
A private well. I feel like I don't share that much.
And when I say that, I think that comes as
a shock to a lot of my followers and people
because they're like, what what do you mean? Like I
feel like you show so much, like we know so much,
but I'm like, no, I truly don't like what I
show is like, let's say fifteen minutes of a morning, right,
and I keep the phone in the kitchen, like I
there is so much to that morning. Yeah, you see

(21:52):
me doing my girl's hair, or you see me making
lunch boxes getting ready, and like the chaos set unfolds
behind me, whether that's my kids writing scooters or the
dog sparking all this and Ben's going to work, but
like that's all you see. Tell me what I do
for the rest of the day, where I go, like
all these different things. Tell me who my kids are
friends with, or my kids favorite foods, like all these things.
Like I choose not to share because I understand my

(22:13):
kids have a life and they may not want to be,
you know, on social media when they're older. And everyone's like, oh,
they can't consent. I'm like, yeah, dude, they can't consent
to anything as kids. That's why they have adults. And
I consent to them being online. That's why they have parents.
And I think this whole like exploitation term gets thrown
around so much because people just want to hate. People
just want to cancel you. It's this culture we live

(22:33):
in now. They want to hate on everything that you do.
But it's so funny to me because I'm like, I know,
I don't exploit to my kids, like I would prefer
if my kids didn't actually hang around my feet twenty
four to seven and I could just feel myself looking hot.
But unfortunately this is like not unfortunately, but I have
three children. Good bye. They want to be here and
I change nappies and they're always at my feet and
they're always creating havoc. Like I don't tell them to

(22:56):
do any of this. I just set up my phone,
like I've been doing this long before my kids. And yeah,
it blew up after I had kids, But that was
because of me, like not because of my kids. Like
I wasn't making my six week old perform and do
a dance, like, yeah, it was because I was showing
you my leaky tits and relatability of motherhood Eloise laughing
in the background, you know, And I was just showing that.
And I just think people want to say they know

(23:19):
so much about my life. And maybe you do in
terms of you know where I go on holidays and
you know what's going on in my day to day
life when I talk about it openly and my hemorrhys
up my arse or whatever, but like you actually don't
really know. You don't know the extracurricular actor don't know
how I don't know. You don't know if my child's
sick or whatever, like medical conditions. I would net things

(23:39):
like that. I would just never share. And I am
super private and I live a very private life offline
and I really love that.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Like I think what it is is people don't see
the strategy behind it.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, people don't think I'm very smart, and I think
that's where I get people, because I'm like, I know,
I may seem DITZI because I am chaotic. I have
like maybe ADHD who knows, But I'm just very that's
just me. That's my energy and that I kind of
roll with the chaos.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
Laura, what did I say about any this morning? I said,
do you know what I said? I think India is
very intelligent. I'm going to love talking to ours.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Because I think that people might not perceive her.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
How she writes. I said that word for it.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
I think it's important to note no one can create
a career or a following in a strategic way that
you have unless you have the intelligence behind it, because
you've got to understand how these platforms work. Content isn't
just something that you throw together willing early. If it was,
everyone would be on social media making millions of dollars.
There is a strategy to it, and it is an

(24:35):
art form in a lot of ways. And I do
think that there is a very different and it's a
there will be people who disagree with me on this.
There is a difference between people who use their children
specifically for content and the entire channel is created around
their kids. We've seen a lot of like US influencers
coming out docos on people exploiting like these child influencers. Yeah,

(24:58):
we can all watch that and be yes, that is exploitation.
There's a very big difference when like I'm sharing, for example,
my kids my life. My kids are an extension of me.
My life doesn't exist without my kids, now, you know,
like I do. They're there, and so I guess, like,
from my perspective, right, I really resonate with what you're saying,
because I'm like, there will come a time with when

(25:19):
my kids go, I don't want to be on social media, mum,
and that's happening with Marley. Molly will be like, no,
social media's is that I don't want a photo, and
I'm like, cool, get out of my get my photo,
but just please just go Mommy has to do this,
Please go away, and she'll be like, cool, I don't
want to be in it.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
It's not that deep and that sounds harsher than what
it is, but it's not that deep At all, and
I'm like, unless you're actually in it, just like motherhood,
you don't really know. Like, of course there's some mothers
out there that do exploit their children, and I get that,
Like I've seen something on TikTok where parents literally book
holidays like going to Disneyland and then have a schedule
of what they're going to film, Like that is not
how I live my life, Like I just set up

(25:54):
my phone. If I have to do a job that
incorporates my kids, I'll make it fun. They were I
don't even know it's a job. I'll be, oh, can
you just, you know, put a few spoonfuls of this
into the batter and their head might not even being
in it. But that is like the extent of me
like curator curated content, And I just think it's funny
that people their biggest thing is like they can't consent
to this, And I'm like, what the fucking kids consent

(26:17):
to under the age of what ten? Like that is
why they have parents to consent.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
I'd love to know for you when it transitioned into
like a world of support and love to a bit
of hate and trolling, because that's a big part of
your story.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
That we want to get into. When did you notice
the tide turning?

Speaker 4 (26:33):
And I guess can you pinpoint what was happening in
your life to make the tide turn?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
I think definitely going on TikTok, that's where the the hate,
you know, kind of started showing up.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
And let's just be clear, that's like so much overwhelming love.
I think we're very negatively geared that we're like, oh,
there's the hate, but the love couldn't be stronger.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I know.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
And the story is about the horrific trolling.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
No I know, but you know what that is like
one percent, Like I have the most incredible audience and
followers and people who have been there for me since
day one, since when I started posting, and they've been
on that journey and watched me grow, which is super cool.
But I think the one percent, it's always the one percent, right,
that are always the fucking louders. Like, I don't know
what it is. I think in this society where have
become so negative and we want to cancel everything and

(27:15):
we want to hate on everyone that we just kind
of find the negativity and everything.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
I think as well, we're very good at looking at
social media and making people two dimensional. And someone could
have done a hundred things that are great, but if
they do one thing that someone perceives as not being great,
and if you've already got a bias, it's you know
a lot of people will watch someone on social media
and have a bias of like, oh I don't really
like that person, but they don't know why.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
They don't have anything to background.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's a feeling, right, and so then when that one
thing happens, it's like they're are half moment.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
We've talked about it before.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
It's just the validation that they have to be like
that's why, that's their true colors, and then that's how
it manifests.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
I just think we've also gotten to a society where
we can't have a discussion anymore where we disagree with somebody,
Like there's no educated debate anymore, and it's no like,
oh I disagree with you, but that's cool, Like I
agree with everything else, let's be friends. It's like the
second that there is a disagreement with one thing in
relation to one topic, it's like, let's fucking cancel them.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Like it's gone from zero to one hundred so quickly.
There's no like.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
There's no justice. I know what you mean. Room like
two opinions care there can be two opinions and neither
of them have to be right, but they can. But
people can call it this yeah, I know, and people
only think there can be one opinion and one right answer.
It's like no, like we can have a conversation and
you can have your opinion. Mind doesn't mean we're gonna
have a fight, Like we don't need to try win
this argument. How has online trolling affected you? I feel

(28:34):
like when I first started TikTok, it wasn't really affecting
me because I was so deep in motherhood and having
kids and back to back pregnancies and just like that's
just all I was really focusing on. Especially with my
last pregnancy, soul was high risk, so I just like
was constantly like in the I don't know, in the
hospital getting checked and all of that. So I don't
really have time to put my energy into these trolls.
But then obviously, as your platform grows and more people

(28:57):
and I remember that, you know the saying, as you
get bigger, more hate, and I get that to some extent,
but for some reason, it must obviously just become louder
and more comments and more people pile on. And I
think now, because society we live in such like a barrage,
you know, people pile on. One person hates you, Yeah,
we all fucking hate her for being annoying or for
rubbing her nose the wrong way. Let's not talk about

(29:17):
my nose, we will, you know, Like everyone just wants
to pile on because it makes them feel good. And also,
I think because we are so negative everybody, so many
people have problems these days where that's mental health and
people aren't looking after themselves because social media can be
so toxic. So this makes them feel good. When they
get that gratification for let's tear Indy Clinton down and

(29:39):
then three hundred other people jump on that, they feel
this sense of like, oh my god, I'm so seen
and heard, and I'm like, babe, there are so many
other ways you can be seen and heard. How do
you feel in that?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Because like, it's very easy to be like that, I know,
but it's very easy to be like This is the
reason why I think people are doing it.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I get pulled in so many different directions because I'm
such an EmPATH, and I know people say that like oh,
I'm such an EmPATH. But truly I I wear my
heart on my sleeve like I feel for so many
other people, which is why I shut off a lot.
When you know things around the world are going on,
like I shut off in terms of I don't speak
about it online because I will be up for nights,

(30:15):
you know, and I will wear that and I will
carry that burden and then you know, I become less
present with my own kids or like things go on
at home and I'm like, fuck, I just need to
like shut off from the internet because this negativity can
really eat away at you. And I think more recently
this year, I've learnt that through the stress and my
brhino like I've really it's affected me in ways I
never thought, Like when I was seeing a psychologist, he

(30:36):
would say to me, Indy, you need to slow down
otherwise you will get really sick. And I was like,
what do you mean, like a cough? Like what a
running over? How do I just don't get how burning
out will make you sick like? And he's like, no, no, no,
like you will get sick, like you will be in bed,
like you'll be sick. And I was like, I just
don't understand how anything could ever make you, you know,
burning out, And now I get it because from all

(30:56):
of this stress, like this nos job has given me
and like you know, I felt like the whole world
is talking about and how I look and things like that.
Their effects are tat on me, like I've lost like
ten kilos and my mental health has gone down and
I question like everything, and it just I don't gonna cry, right, Okay,
I just think it's a really it's tough because you

(31:17):
put yourself online, but people don't see behind the scenes,
like showing up offline. And I think for me, as
soon as that started affecting my life as a mum
and how I shut up for my kids, I knew
that something had to change because all I wanted to
be was a mom and for me to be snappy

(31:37):
and you know, less, less present and not enjoy the
small moments with them because of this online world. I
was like, that's enough for me, Like I'm happy to
give this up, Like I don't care. No amount of
money would make me want to stay in this career
because you know, life short and with your kids and
everything that's going on around the world, and kids are
suffering and I'm like, I can't even be a good

(31:58):
mum because these people online are breaking me. And I
don't even why the fuck am I letting them break me.
They don't even know me. But I'm like, my kids
know me, and how I show up and how I
play with them, and how I look at them and
smile them and my energy. They pick up on that,
and I think, for me, that's the most important things
in my life. So once I realized that was affecting

(32:20):
me as a mom and like showing up for my
kids and being the best mom I could be, I
was like, that's it, Like I need to create change,
and I will create change, because no one should have
their mom like have to cry or have breakdowns when
they put their kids to bed so their kids don't
see them like this or like act like everything's okay.
And then I go online and I am just reminded,

(32:42):
like and how I look, I'm relenting, but the problem
relentless And you just said it.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
You said, I'm sorry, I feel like that, And I mean, Laura.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
And I have been on the receiving end of a
level of onslaught before as well, not to the probably
the level you have, but probably not far off. But
the thing that you just said is why am I
letting these people get to me. It's one thing to
say rise above it and don't don't let them touch
the surface. But it's another thing to live that when
it's not one person, When it's like every time you

(33:11):
open your phone, it's not just your personal pages, it's
other pages, it's news articles.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
It's other countries. Of course you're going to feel that. Like,
no person is immune to that level of I don't
want to say hate, it's not the right word.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
The criticism and negativity, judgment and negativity and like, and
that's what I hope every person that listens to these things.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
And I'm not saying we have any trolls. We don't,
but we.

Speaker 4 (33:37):
Definitely have people that have opinions, which is totally fine.
I think the thing people forget is like they're like, oh,
I'm just one person giving my opinion. But when you're
just one person, but there's a million of you, it's
a million people with it with giving their opinion, you.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Know, totally. And I think the lines of blurb between
like do you need to give your opinion on that? Like, yeah,
I give your opinion on that is I ask for
your opinion on this. This is a weird parasocial relationship.
It has so many pros, but it has so many
cons which disconnect society from make real life emotion.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
You posted a TikTok video of you dancing in your
your kitchen, yes, with you holding a sixty four page
document that said something on the lines and I'm paraphrasing.
It was the report that was given by a private
investigator that you had enlisted to find out the identities
of some of the people who have been doing the
most insidious trolling of you online. And you've been like

(34:32):
relatively quiet about it since. But that blew the absolute
f up. We talked about it on the podcast. It
was in every news article.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Oh we loved it.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
No video has made me happy, like get it girl.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
But it was it was this real question around when
we do things online with anonymity, maybe that anonymity is
not a guarantee. Firstly, I'd love to know what led
you to that process of actually hiring a private investigator,
Like what led you to the path of being like, Okay,
this is what I'm going to do, and I'm pretty
sure I'm going to get a positive outcome.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Out of this is then I'm going to figure out
who these people are. Yeah, well I didn't really know
that I was going to get a positive outcome because
after I sourced my private investigator, he was like, you
have a really hard case because you're not like your
average Joe where it could be like your ex's new girlfriend,
you know, harassing you. It's not like that easy. Your
people could be anyone from around the world, and like,

(35:23):
we can do as much as we can, but obviously,
like if there's VPNs used and things like that, like
we can't access any more information, you know, it blocks us,
but like we're happy to try everything. And it was
like twelve an extensive twelve week period of them investigating
because they went to the extent of like starting conversations

(35:44):
with these people to be able to get more to yeah,
in full tray, and they started conversations like on these
accounts and they got you know, more information from them
being friendly and these people bit and they kept you know,
if it was about me, they were like, fuck, yeah,
let's keep going to These people were gathering their information
without the troll even knowing, and that was something I

(36:05):
never thought I was gonnat like even higher a private investigator.
It wasn't something I was like, fuck, yeah, this is
what I'm gonna do. It was more like when it's
enough enough, you know, like I can handle it. Obviously
my mental health was deteriorating, but I can handle it.
I'm a mom. I have to show resilience, and I've
built resilience and thick skin being on social media. But
many other people wouldn't be able to, like this isn't normal,

(36:26):
and all you have to do is not look very
far and look at the statistics of suicide with mental
health and teens and the negative effects social media does
have on teens because it is so unregulated and the law.
There's no laws around keeping these anonymous accounts and trolls
accountable for what they do online. So I just think
for me, it was kind of like a turning point.
I was like, all right, I have the money to

(36:47):
do this, I'm privileged. I can do this. I'm gonna
do it. I didn't really go in thinking I more
did it for justice for me, but also change for
the world. The world, low like change for maybe Australia.
I mean it would be the world, but I didn't
really have a plan from that. But I knew I
just wanted to create change, and I knew this would
spark change because I'm like, I hadn't seen anyone who

(37:10):
who had done it.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, I think like a lot of people who are
in these positions feel like it's so futile, like they
have no control.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
What did it cost you? It cost you eight thousand dollars?
And they originally want to payment upfront, and I was like, look,
I'll pay half first and then after a few weeks
and like, and you can give me a bit of update,
like I'll pay the other half because I had no
idea if this was even a scam.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Had you just googled I am good?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Like yays, And I was kind of looking at reviews
or something like who we.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Found my cheating boyfriend? You were like, you're the one.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
No, I think there was someone in not social media,
but there was someone who I want to say she
was like an activist or something that had used them
and she had a review with her name and photo
of like, and I was like, Okay, that's enough for
me to use them. Yeah, so I was, but I
was still skeptical, Like I was still up until I
was like, cool, if I just wasted four thousand dollars
on like this AI website that's not even legit. But

(38:01):
I did have a call with the guy before all
of this. It was like an hour and a half
and he answered all my questions. I just kept going,
what if this, what if that? And then like he
was really informative and he answered all my questions on
the spot with super in depth responses that made me
feel really comfortable in my choice, and I was like, hey,
this is the one, go for it. But even like
after paying that, I had no idea. I knew I
wanted to create change, but I just hadn't figured out how.

(38:24):
How yet, what did that do for you?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Like receiving that document, finding out the identities of these
people who had caused so much emotional damage?

Speaker 1 (38:32):
What did that do? I don't know. It kind of
shocked me and just kind of was like reminded me
how fucked we are as a society, to be honest,
because majority of them were mums, which I don't know
that that just surprises me. Like that was the most
shocking part of the report was the fact, okay, well
like all of them were women, majority were mothers. I'm like,

(38:52):
the fuck, Like you want to go forward in society
and women take over the world like we should and
like but still doing this.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Had you gone through and picked out like your main
repeat offenders and given that information to the PI, and
then I guess off the back of that were any
of the results people that you had known.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
No see, a lot of people thought that there was
no one I knew personally, like no one in my circle.
So I have a very small circle, but no one
in my out of circle either that I knew of
or whatever. Yeah. But yeah, So basically he's like, give
me as much information as you can, like screenshots, this,
whatever you think might even like no amount of screenshots
too dumb or whatever, like as much information as we
can have. So I was like collating folders and stuff

(39:36):
long but like before I even came out about that
was like months and months before. So I was letting
these people continue to just do it because I wanted
to build that. I would sometimes post things knowing I
would get a reaction to.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
Be able to gather and people.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I'm a bit cuntry like that.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
That does not a bad person you even put on
that post came strategic. Well, you came out saying that
you knew exactly who these people were, and you had
now engage with them in certain ways, either following them
so like this is this is a part of the
story in case you're not across it. So when you
had like shared this, you were like, I know the
identity of these people. I'm not going to share that publicly,

(40:13):
but so that they know that I know, I have
either followed them on Instagram I'm gonna fuck you are
I have started replying to their stories or replying to
their posts.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
What happened there? Did you get a response from any
of them? Yes. One of the main culprits started engaging
with me on DMS, and she was like she said
something like was this because of my post or something?
And I was like, sorry, your post or are we
gonna talk about like the multiple posts you've posted throughout
the years that you know to famed me, my family,
my partner, like impacted mental health career, whatever it is.

(40:45):
And I go your posts and she goes, I can
delete that if you want. I'm like, and then she goes,
I can delete my account. And I was like, don't worry, dol,
Like the damage is done because she knew exactly who
I was I was talking to her, like, you're in wa,
I know who you are? Like, so she knew you
knew yeah, and she Because it's funny, these alias, these accounts,
they often try to create these different personas online because

(41:08):
a lot of people that I spoke to thought she
lived in Melbourne. And the PI said that they often
create these different profiles online so they lead a different
life so they will never get caught out. In their head,
so she was telling people she was from Melbourne and
blah blah. You know, she's got a kid here and
she's Dutch, you know, all these different things.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Just head cases, just head cases.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
And like they lived a totally different life in a
different state. But they say they do this because it
helps them feel like they're anonymous and they never be
found out.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Do you ever just point to say why do you
do this?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Nah? Because I know why they do it. They're unwell,
Like you're not happy with it yourself, and you're not
well if you're constantly degrading and bringing someone down, like
despite knowing they've lost weight, or despite knowing they look
exhausted or like defeated or like you can see that,
but you're still willing to.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Do that I think you nailed it when you said
it is a parasocial relationship, but just the negative kind.
People always talk about parasocial relationships when people have fanfare
and they're like, you know, really clocked in because they are,
you know, in love with someone who lives their life
online in some ways, or they admire and adore them.
Parasocial relationships absolutely exist in reverse, where someone becomes so
fixated on hating someone and you have to question what

(42:21):
kind of person has the energy or the lack of
things going on in their life that they have time
to be this fixated on one person.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
And it becomes an obsession.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, it does, It really does. And I think knowing
that majority of them are mothers was something that I
was like, you know, it makes sense, like which I
didn't originally think it made sense. I was like, the fuck,
like you're meant to be looking after being because I
guess for me, as soon as I felt like my
mental health was being impacted from viewing your comments as

(42:50):
a mom, I'm like I need to step back. I
need to do something about this because I want to
be the best mum I can be, Like, how are
you showing up as a mother to your children. If
what you do in your free time is just fuel
hate and spread rumors and lies and fake narratives and
destroy somebody's mental health, how you showing up as like

(43:10):
a happy mom? There is no way you're rocking up
at the park or the beach with your kid and
cutting up fruit and dancing around a circle bloody to Kumbaia, Like,
there's no way You're like, you're so miserable and you're
probably giving that energy out. And I'm not some woo
woo chick like that. I love energy and I pick
up on energy, but I'm just like, there's no way
you're showing up happy in other parts of your life

(43:31):
if you're doing this in your free time. So what
do you want to do with this report?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Now?

Speaker 1 (43:35):
What is your plans?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Because it's one thing to have that information, it's another
thing to do something with it.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, my plans to start a charity or an organization
to kind of help families or individuals whoever, like, who's
suffering from cyberbulling, online trolling. I guess access the resources
to be able to help their loved ones or to
be able to track down the trolls. Because I think
the plan I know the platforms don't do anything about this.
I have direct contact with the platforms and they were

(44:03):
unable to help me with any of this. Of course,
they offered like we can do anything, like just let
us know. So I did link a video and they're like, sorry,
we can't take this down, like this doesn't cross the
community guidelines, because that's so the community guidelines are so gray, right,
they want to be held accountable. So if the community
guidelines of a platform don't want to be held accountable,
who is held accountable? Like nobody.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
I reported somebody that said that they wanted to put
me on a spit oh my god, slip me open
from my.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Neck, Oh my god, that makes me feel sick, and.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
They said it didn't cross the guys, they didn't take
it down.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
It's horrible, and I'm thinking cool, like that's literally death
threats and that's not being taken down.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Right, But of course online bulling is never going to change.
It's because, unfortunately it's up to the platforms. And I
find it so weird that I guess in Australia they're
banning social media right f under sixteens and I'm like,
why are we doing that? As a band aid approach.
I kind of questioned. I was like, because obviously my
kids are far off sixteen. I'm like, why are we
actually banning it? And I was told it was for

(45:03):
the mental health. I'm like, yeah, the mental health because
of the online trolling, because of that lack of regulation
on social media. That's what it comes down to. There
are no laws, no one is held accountable. The lack
of regulation and social media not actually being created for
children is the reason why their mental health is deteriorating.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Well, I think this is why what happened with Total
Life has been I mean, I guess it's a bit
of a world leader as well.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
We haven't seen it before.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
But the fact that there are tangible things in place
now for people to have repercussions if you are hosting
a site that is literally made to be bullying and
to bring people down, I.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Don't think we're ever going to see the change.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Until anonymous trolls are held accountable, Like until the point
we get to the point where someone does what you've done.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
But then and I know you don't want to do it.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
You've spoken, I've heard you speak about not wanting to
actually go and put any like monetary about you want.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
To, But this is what I'm like, I still can
like what in two years time? And if I'm like, fuck,
I'm not going to as many brand deals. I'm kidding,
I'm kidding.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Troll realizes that oh fuck, if they find me, I
could actually face prison time.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yes, totally, Like that's what I do. Think. There's a
bit of a pull from me because I'm like, I
do need to show that there is real life repercussions
for this behind the screen. You know, you may not
be able to see me, and it's behind a screen.
You may not think these words affect me, but like,
there needs to be real life repercussions and consequences for

(46:27):
the real life damage that they're doing to people's mental health.
So I do think all the time I should prosecute
them said the words them, because I've spoken to I've
been with multiple lawyers, and I can go them through
civil court or criminal? Is that the two there's two
be civil? No, but I can go for both. I
think defamations one of them are then harassment bullings the
other and from throughout the multiple people like I have

(46:50):
a case for both. Right, and I spoke and she
was like to be honest, Like if you're after two
hundred and fifty K from them, like they're not gonna
have that. So like, if you're after money, there's no point.
I'm like, you know, I'm not after money. I never
I never did this for money, because if I did,
I would send them bankrupt and have their faces all
over the internet so they never can get a job again.
And like, even though that's not actual money, for me,

(47:12):
it would make me feel some sense of like justice, justice,
But I don't want to. I don't want to give
them that pain. So I thought as something else, I
could make them as part of defamation. You could make
them go and listen to real life families talk about
losing a love one to suicide from online cyber bullying,
and I would make them sit face to face like
this and listen to their stories. And that for me

(47:34):
would give me a sense of fuck, yeah, I've done something.
You know, if I could change one person from stopping
online like cyberballing, from listening to five family stories, like
I feel like that's not enough change for me. I'm lying, No,
I want to do bigger change.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
I mean, it's also up to you. Whatever you do
is going to affect your life ongoing as well. And
you've obviously been through a lot, and I think as women,
our bodies are constantly scrutinized, people always talking about the
way we look.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Totally, you have received a.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
Disturbing amount of commentary on your rhinoplastic. Can you talk
to us about that process from when you got it done,
what you asked for and to what you ended up with.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, so I got it done in March, and I
had to kind of do I had a short period
window to get it done because you know, I had
like a huge campaign shoot in April, and I had
something on in February and he was going to LA
and end of April and I had, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
You know what, you got a time and especially with
kids and your faces, You're right, and I'm like, I've
got kids.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I don't want to be out like at the end
of the year, towards the end of the year, and
I say birthdays and parties, like that's my number one priority.
I want to look fine for that and like for them.
So I was like, I've got this window period that
I can do, so let's just get it done. So
I spoke about I got hit by a board like
in twenty twenty, and it kind of created a huge
ridge between my nose and my cottage. But along with that,

(48:52):
pregnancies make your nose change as well. So like I
didn't say i'd have a cute small noise, but like
I had a nice nose. But like I always, it
was always some thing that I didn't like in the
middle there that I want to change. And whenever i'd
get my makeup done, I'd tell them like, make my
nose look like I can't breathe, Like snatch my nose
now it actually like can't breathe. Yeah, didn't mean it literally.

(49:12):
So I got that done, and I was super honest
with my audience, and I was like, this is why,
even if this is what's crazy, even if I didn't
have an excuse to get it done, it's fine if
you wanted it, right, Like I'm a woman who makes
my own money, who supports my family, and then I
have money to do something for myself. Why the fuck not,
Like if I want to get it done, I just.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
That's reason enough, right, I do it is really right.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
That's what I think. But the fact I even have
to come online and then be like do I have
your permission to get my nose done. Guys like, we
still love me. So I got that done, and then
I got the cast removed at twelve weeks, at twelve days,
twelve weeks, twelve days, and immediately I was like the fuck.
They're like, don't worry, and the nurse removed it right,
so I didn't even have my surgeon remove the mask,

(49:53):
but whatever not the master cast, and I was like,
oh my god, I look like a crazy lady, which
no one has ever seen photos because I thought it'd
be a really funny TikTok. When I got it removed,
I was like, oh my god, this is gonna be
so funny when I can take a TikTok like showing
the before verse what my nose is now like when
it down right, I was like, I can't wait for this.
It's gonna look amazing. And then it just like never
got better. And I went in multiple times twice. I

(50:15):
had steroid shots in the nose to help with the swelling,
like that wasn't working because it wasn't just swelling like
it's fully like distorted to one side of my face
and my nostrils are unaligned. So I went in with
a completely straight nose and symmetrical nostrils like they were unreal.
It was minor tweaks, right, And then when I saw it,
and it just kept carrying on weeks by weeks, and
I had the biggest campaign shoot of my life, and

(50:37):
like I was like, fuck my life, Like what is
this thing on my face? Like I was just trusting
the process as I was being told, and I'm like,
of course, I'm not a medical professional, and I know
a nose takes twelve months. But as the months went
on and it wasn't shifting at all in terms, it
was actually probably getting it was getting worse, and I
was like, I started having second consults with doctors on

(50:57):
the best doctors in Melbourne and just like on Zoom,
just kind of getting second opinions gathering, being like and
this doctor was like to me, no, like you're gonna
need a full reconstruction, like it's a big surgery, like
a revision surgery. What you will need will need like
grafting and all these things. And I was like, wow,
are you kidding me? Like that was horrible to hear,
because when I went under, I was under the impression

(51:19):
we're both on the same page. Like this is not
my body's anatomy and whatever that's just created this thing.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
But there's also two parts of this, right, Like I
think there are lots of people who have had surgeries,
plastic surgeries, and the outcome hasn't been what they wanted
it to be. Yeah, those conversations don't seem to get
as much attention or they're not as common, but that's
also because they don't have a huge platform. The thing
is is you went through this and then you have
to show up to work. You have to show up

(51:48):
and talk to all of these people who you know
are going to have an opinion on what it is
that you've just chosen to do.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
How did you deal with that process?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Because I can only imagine if you weren't happy at
that time and you're like, okay, cool, fuck, I have
to get back on social media.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
What's gonna happen? Like, how was that time for you? Well?
I think early on it was fine because I was like,
sucks for you guys, I'm actually gonna look really hot soon,
Like it's this isn't what it's gonna look like, Like
that's what I was being told, and like over and
over it's this is not what's gonna look like it'll realign.
This is just swelling. So I was kind of like, well,
you wait, it's gonna be over a few bitches. Oh long,

(52:25):
they're still waiting, and then you've got to I guess
about it. I was just waiting as well as the
online hate about what my nose looked like. I was
dealing with like multiple infections inside my cartilage inside here,
which I had to go on like three or four
rounds of antibiotics in two months. This injection kept flaring up,

(52:48):
and then so when he did the steroid shot, it
made the infection flare up, like it genuinely looked like
I grew a brain in my nose. It was so
red and raw, and I had to go on another
round of antibiotics. Like obviously, my gut was like real
end by the end of that. So I was just
kind of under the impression that I was gonna look
super hot soon. And I think my my turning point
of this was when I went on Live TV to

(53:09):
talk about the launch of Booth and they got me
from my bad Well, honestly, I've got all bad angles now,
but you before my nose shot, my bad angle was
my left side right, and they got me from that
left side, and I guess you can see both my
eyes from that angle, like both of them, which before
I had the ridge, you could never see both my eyes,
so it looked really weird. And that's when I was like, oh, hell,

(53:31):
like this is not meant to be what it looks like.
Like there's fifteen hundred comments pretty much saying like we
need to know the surgeon's name, you know, like there
was majority of the comments with like the most likes
fifteen thousand likes were about my nose. That was kind
of like, yeah, okay, this shouldn't look like this now.
And I had people around me, like one of my
best friends, she's had her nose done, and like it

(53:53):
should look pretty good at three weeks, do you know
what I mean? Like you're gonna look swollen, but you
should look like she's going wide to.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Be Yeah, how did you feel? Were you devastated by this?
Were you like, Okay, what am I gonna do now?

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Well? I wasn't, because I was I was still being
told to trust the process. I'm very naive, right, I'm
really I'm the type of person that believes someone up
until like they fucked me over right in front of
my eyes. I'm like, I missed all the red flags,
like do you know what I mean? So, And because
it's I trust a medical professional totally, and that that
very different.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
When a medical professional is saying, hey, this is what
it's going to be, You're like, well, you have all
the experience.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Because I've had kids, and like, you know, I'm one
of those people that went into all my birds without
a birth plan because I trust you, right, and like
I guess because also I'm confident in what I say.
So if I say lights out, we're fucking turning the
lights out, do you know what I mean? Like in
terms of I don't need to have something written to
make me heard. I will be heard in the moment.
So for me, it was, oh, I was believing him whatever,

(54:50):
and maybe he did hope it was going to change,
and I was being hopeful too. But then it got
to a few months down the track and it was
still looking like that, and then I was like, right,
this is enough, and we're you know, back and forth
on emails, and I finally went in with my husband.
I was like, you're coming with me, because like, I
don't know what the fuck and the first question he
said was, so, what don't you like about it? I

(55:13):
was like, are we living the same experience? Like obviously
not like you're actually living a very like I don't
know if you're naive or just blissfully unaware, because I
don't know if you've seen what's online. Maybe you haven't
because I have to look into my hount every day
and be reminded how I look. But everything I was like,
d him, I want my old nose back. That's as
that's as close as I want it back, because this

(55:33):
is not it? Do you know? What was interesting? Though?
We did decide we did figure out that within those
three months my lip filler, which I had not had
in two years, but in those three months, maybe from
the stress, it had all come out of my lips.
I had done nothing so like it did from when
I went into the surgery and he took a before
photo to them. When he took a photo three months later,

(55:53):
my lips had completely flattened, so was making my nose
look even worse. But even I got my fill to
make it look better and it didn't work. So we're
not letting the lit fill up. But like there was
so many factors. Anyway, Long story short is, well, we're
still living it.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
So what though, Like I firstly, I appreciate you being
so candid about this because I think the only thing
we ever see is the positive outcomes from plastic surgery,
and like you know, in no way do I want
you to suffer through it so that you could be
an example. But I think it's really fucking healthy that
you're speaking about it and that you're like, hey, you
know what, I've had other things that I'm happy with.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
This is not an outcome that I am happy with.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
And this is something that can happen if you're going
to go down the track of having plastic surgery as well. Like,
these are very real outcomes, and I know that there
is like a process now and like you'll have to
go through revisions. But has it changed your perspective at
all on plastic surgery or is it just made you
be like I'm doing more research next time?

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Well? Yeah, I don't know. It's funny because it's not
like I went to some shitty surgeon that's totally right Turkey.
I didn't find to be yet. Apparently those surchins really good. Yeah,
if I was going to get two weeks off from
my kids. But it's a big learning curve in terms of, like,
not everything goes the way you want it to. And
I think that's life. And I was saying before, like

(57:16):
how boring would have it been if I got a
perfect nose, How like that would just make my co like,
oh my god, a perfect nose, like cute kids, a
hot husband. Honestly, like, people would hate you even more everything.
I am a strong believer. I do think people need
adversity in their life and that will come one way
and another.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
And I even sure you could be like adversity without
it being in my face.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
I think. I mean, I feel like I've had a
pretty smooth sailing, Like you know, I've had fucking bullying
and trolls and like those adversities suck and things like that.
But in terms of like character building shit, this is
my character building shit and I can look back on
it and and show to my kids, like resilience is
the most important thing that you can have as a
coping mechanism to get through life. Because if you don't

(57:58):
have resilience, damn, what is the plan?

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Because I know a lot of people want to know, Okay,
if something like this does happen and your surgery goes wrong?

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Can they fix it?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Have you?

Speaker 4 (58:08):
Have you sought out professional help to say, hey, yes,
we can reconstruct it. I believe I can get it
back to what you want. Or is the result a
bit like well this is sort of it.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Well, I think it's different for everyone because it really
depends on I guess. You know, it's an expensive surgery.
A nose job is you know, between twenty and thirty
K and a revision probably more because it is a
hard surgery. And my second cousin is a plastic surgeon
and before I went in she said like one in

(58:37):
three need to get their noses redone. I was like,
that's not gonna be me as if and I get it,
like it's a it's complicated, it's on your face. There's
two main vessels that run down. That is why, like
filler in the nose is such a high risk place
to put filler in. So yeah, I don't really know
what I'm going to do next because I've had multiple
opinions from Australia's best doctors and I know the next

(59:00):
but whether I document next steps or kind of tell
the world the next steps if I do decide to
get a revision, I don't know. I have a pretty
busy next few months. We've got my kids' birthday parties.
I know that sounds crazy, but like I am peak
organizing class parties, ice cream trucks, reptile zoos, all that
shit I am not having on my face for those parties.
Like number one, my kids will get nightmares. Number two,

(59:23):
they don't need that again. So I'm trying to navigate.
For me, it's like making my kids feel comfortable and
you know, like seeing me in bed again and having
to rest, like it's another part of my life that
I have to That's what drives me crazy the most.
It's not even like the money part and having to
spend more money on another surgery. It's more that mental
part and not being able to show up for my kids.

(59:44):
And then there's no right time right next year, my
son starts kindergarten and I don't want to be twelve
days off not pucking him up from KINDI So there's
like I'm just the life. You like, you've just like
fucked my whole life, even though like my life's not
that busy, but you fucked my mum life because that
what's most important. Like I can show up online like
keep talking about my nose. It brings me engagement. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Well, that's also that's also their like it's true.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
What do you think? I agree?

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
But also like I know that we touched on this
in terms of, like, you can't have the level of
success that you have on social media in terms of
your content creation and strategy without having like a really
well yeah, but without having like a brand, a brain
and understanding like the strategy behind it all. Yeah, You've also,
I mean, there's been exciting things happening with you in

(01:00:33):
terms of like not just ambassadorship but brand collaborations with Booth.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
What does that look like for you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
And in terms of like taking a step from being
a brand ambassador to being someone who works within an
entrepreneur space.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Yeah, it's been super exciting. Honestly working with them, I
feel like has been something that has taken my mind
off the social media world where it is so negative.
This has been such a nice outlet for me and
something so differ into motherhood because I've been so deep
in motherhood for the last five years and just with
my kids. It's nice to be creative and That's what

(01:01:07):
I love about TikTok, the creativity and the stories that
you can tell and create and everyone has a character.
Like I enjoy that creativity and the way I edit
and the hooks and it keeps people like that to
me is yes, it's real life. But I enjoy the
editing part. And I think that's where people think it's
not genuine because they're like, this isn't genuine. This is

(01:01:28):
all an actor. It's like no, no, no, Like you guys,
this is my life. It's just like you're falling for
the way I'm editing and stuff like that, and it's
keeping you invested and hooked. But this whole opportunity with Booth,
it started super organically and they came to me months
and months and months ago, and because it's the owner
of TBH, right, and so in twenty twenty two, I
leaked their viral product. I think it's viral. Yeah, their

(01:01:50):
viral product. Yeah, the jelly cleans are Yeah. After Taylor
Swift concert, it was like I stop breastfeeding Bambi or
I was out for a night or something like that,
and I was super drunk, Like I was so drunk
for swaying in the concert seat, like onto the people
next to me, Like I was like head spinning drunk, right,
So I fell asleep my makeup. The next day, got
the jelly cleanser in my cupboard and I just used
that and it was under embargoed. But I'm like, who

(01:02:12):
even reads the notes that these brands send? Right? Well?
Who reads?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
And you were like this is great, and they were like,
I've not available yet in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
My cupboard right over, Like yeah, it's like do you
know what I mean? Like, no, okay, if it's like
a long piece of paper discrips, like, I'm not gonna
read it's like a love note.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Was it sent to you as a brand thing you
were supposed to do as an you had work coming out,
or it was just people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Sorry, it was just pr gifted right, And I'm reading that.
You don't read the notes, you know, if it's like
a brand deal, you're gonna read the brief. You're gonna
like you know, well now I know that. But that
was just like a gift. So I just have it
in my cupboard. I'm using it. I'm making TikTok video
and I had tail ship last night. Oh my god. Anyway,
Leaf the product hadn't released it, and I thought that
was gonna assume me, but they didn't. They were super
chilled about it, and so chilled they just kind of
turned it into like a marketing Very smart of her,

(01:02:55):
she turned it into like a marketing strategy. So then
like it went viral, Everyone's like, oh my god, and
then people like I hadn't heard of this brand before
Indie League, and they kind of just rolled with it
and then made all these videos off it, which was
very clever because I guess they could have taken another approach, right,
they could make fuck you Indie. Yeah, this was our
brand new product that was in the world wind for
six months, and you literally just leaked it, Like what

(01:03:17):
the fuck? That started our relationship. Months on, they reached
out wanting me to be the face of booth and
I was like, what is it if it's anything to
do with like hair curling or whatever, Like I fuck no,
Like I can't. I remember being sent a product from
a hair brand to use like a hair tool and
they gave me a month to learn how to use it,
and I still didn't perform the way and they like,
Indie do it again. I was like, I can't. I

(01:03:37):
spent like three hours trying to get it, so it's
too hard. It's in the too hard basket, just like
eyelighte not not doing it. So I was like, if
it's a hair toool, I'm not doing it. And they're like, no, no,
it's really cool. It's like this science based like hair
product that helps your hair grow and stops it from
shedding and all these things. And I was like, sus
I don't know. And I knew. You know, I've built
this huge following who are super genuine and you know

(01:04:00):
they'll spend their paycheck on anything that I say, so
I want to make sure it. Were really like I'm
not I'm not going to take the piss and just
take the money if something doesn't work, Like that's not
who I am, despite people thinking they really know who
I am. But anyway, so I was like, I'll do this,
but I have to trial it, but if it doesn't work,
I'm not doing it. So we did a trial period
for like five months, and I documented the process because

(01:04:21):
I was like, how do I know if this actually works? Right?
Like this is I'm going to measure my head. So
I documented from like each week and I had one
of the girls making sure like I uploaded the picks
and the videos like into a drop Box folder just
so you can track, because I always delete my videos
to empty space. It worked obviously, so I was I
did that big shoot after my nose, after I had

(01:04:44):
trialed it all, and I was like, wow, this is
like incredible. I can't believe. Like the shoot was like
an amazing shoot, and the photographer spent like days probably
editing away my nose to make it look as straight
as possible. And that was kind of like a that
was just like transactional, right. I was like, be the
face of it, you pay me whatever. And then after
using the products and seeing the results, I was like,

(01:05:05):
oh my god, this is incredible, Like I want to
be a part of this brand, and not only just
the brand. I think after getting to know the girls
and the team, it was super empowering, you know. For
I've never been in an office setting, and I've never
been I've never had a normal job, right, so having
to rock up in an office and I'm like, wait

(01:05:25):
the fuck you guys have a kitchen like you only
get like I know, why has the kitchen like turned
me on? I'm like, oh my god, that's when it's
when I don't have to clean right, and I'm like,
oh my god, you have like shared snakes. You get
to eat these snakes. And then the other day I'm like, Eloise,
I got you some blue and free biscuits if you
want some, they're in the kitchen, right, I was like,
at least anyone's biscuits. So being around such an empowering

(01:05:48):
group of women, and I think it was even more
obvious because online it's the negativity is so loud, and
then actually being reminded of like real life people and
kindness and empathy exists. It's just like who you surround
yourself with. And I think being around them was like, wow,
this makes me feel so good. And especially Rachel, she's
the founder, so we're the same age, and we have

(01:06:10):
such different lives and you know, we both have brands
in different ways, and we both have such hectic schedules,
and it's like our two lives couldn't be any different,
but we're both super similar and you know, just like
building brands and things like that. So after I guess
trialing the product, seeing the results, being in love, you know,
having that relationship from early on where they didn't like

(01:06:34):
hate on me for releasing their unreleased products and then
going into the office and realizing how empowering these women are.
I was like, wait to say I proposed to Rachel.
I was like, can I just come and be a
part of your company? Like I want to be a shareholder,
like put all of my money. I don't want any
of it. I want to be a part of like
buy in. I want to buy in. So officially, I
am now a shareholder, which has only just happened, like

(01:06:55):
last week, congrat thank you so I which is super
super excited for me because it's like I'm putting a
lot of money, Like we're talking about a lot of money,
and I could have that in my account. I wanted
just to put all my money. And I was like,
I support these brands because not only are they incredible
and Booth changed my hair, you guys are incredible, and

(01:07:16):
I think a lot of people don't see that behind brands,
So I'm really excited for that. I'm just like, now
I'm like an office girl. Every week, I get to
go in and wear suits, and you know, I'm in
on snakes and literally it's snakes, and I'm in on
like everything from the next steps with the brand, Like
They've got such exciting launches next year that I get

(01:07:37):
to be a part of and like new products that
are launching, and I just feel like it's been such
a pivotal moment in my career because you kind of
go from an influencer and then now I'm like a
shareholder and I have equity in a large, large brand
that just I don't know, it's pretty cool. And because
I do it on my own, I think it should

(01:07:58):
be very a whole moment. You know, you never sit
back and like you I never I mean you guys
are probably the same. You never really get to sit
back and be like, oh wow, like I did that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
You don't when you're doing it in isolation. I mean,
like we at least have each other, but like when
you're doing in isolation, you don't have anyone to celebrate
the wins with.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Coming in We're like high five each other and then
you just keep working.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Yeah yeah, And like to be fair, businesses do the
same as well, Like you know, like you celebrate your
wins and then you're so busy focus on the next
thing that you just steamroll into the next.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
You know me, but I'm so excited. I gulds have
my like, I hope they invite me, say Christmas party,
because I've never was a shareholder and like I fully
get to be in the shareholder meetings like it's yeah,
it's big, which is really cool because like I failed
maths in the ages. See, I know nothing about it.
Look at me now, look at me now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
All those teachers who tried to get you expelled or suspended.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Oh my god, literally all those like honestly nobody thought
I mean. But it's funny because I really think my education.
I didn't do anything in my education. You know, I
wasn't a studious person. But now I'm like, wow, everything
that I've kind of achieved in this long time, and
then now being a shareholder of YSB is like huge.

(01:09:12):
I hate honking my own horn, horn congratulate.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
No one's gonna honk your own horn, Like sometimes you've
got to do it for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
I'd be proud. No, my husband. I've got amazing supportive
people around me. But it's a really exciting next step
away from exploiting my kids.

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
You're so candid and open and vulnerable, and we really
appreciate it because you're in a unique situation that not
a lot of people in the public are in. And
I say that by you have such a large platform.
You've openly talked about the trolling, You've done something about it.
You didn't have a successful plastic surgery experience, you've also
been open about that and lent into that, And everything
that has happened for you has happened because you've taken

(01:09:59):
the situation you're in and you've just been really open
and raw and honest about it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
So I think there's a lot to be said for that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
But you're doing amazing things and we're so happy to
be able to have you on the podcast talk about it,
and also like we want.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
To honk your honk honk honk guys for having me.
And I'm so sorry I've left you on bread. I
promised you later. I promise I'm gonna slide into your DMS.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
You better reply no, I'm only good and rap just
like string you along for a little while.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Then I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
INDI thank you so much. You are absolutely such a delight.
Thanks for coming and being a part of the pod.

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