March 27, 2025 • 43 mins
Have you ever been in a relationship where you asked “am I settling?”
What about am I losing myself, what if I’m not good enough and is this type of relationship normal? Sometimes, particularly if you might be a bit of an anxious person already, it can be really hard to tell the difference between relationship anxiety and genuine red flags or signs that you might actually not be compatible.
Today we have anxiety therapist, host of The Anxiety Reset Podcast and author Georgie Collinson joining us to speak about the work she’s done for her new book ‘Master your relationship anxiety.”
Georgie’s previous book, The Anxiety Reset Method, reached international success when it was picked for Oprah’s Book Club in 2023 and was featured on Oprah Daily.
We’re going to be speaking about why exactly are you feeling anxious in love, what anxiety is trying to tell you, the four types of relationship anxiety and how it may prevent us from being our best selves in relationships.
We speak about:
- How relationship anxiety differs from generalised anxiety
- The difference between actual red flags and anxious tendencies
- Why we keep having the same relationship patterns and how to break them
- The 3 stages of love: base love, chaotic love and expansive love
- How to stop being attracted to people who are bad for you
- What ‘learned helplessness’ is
- A healthy relationship is not boring, settling or dull
You can find more from Georgie like her new book ‘master your relationship anxiety’ and her Instagram
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on cart I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and today we are.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Talking anxiety, but specifically relationship anxiety.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I think it's something that when you have.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
A look at yourself a bit of self reflection, think
back to all the dating that you've done, if you're single,
think back to all the feelings that you've felt when
you're in the tumultuous dating world. Anxiety is something that
rears its ugly head consistently.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well for anyone who's not sure in terms of like
what could constitute that feeling. It's like if you've ever
found yourself googling am I settling in a relationship? Have
you ever sort of been questioning whether you're self sabotaging?
Have you ever kind of found yourself having the same
pattern behaviors in relationships that make you feel unsafe, unstable?
(00:58):
And I think a really big part of it is
recognizing what is anxiety and what is real, like what
is actually a very real feeling because your relationship is
not the right relationship, and differentiating which is which.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, and those feelings of like you don't even have
to have googled it. But the feelings of am I enough,
The feelings of do I trust him?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Do I want to go through his phone? Where is he?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Maybe you're feeling a little bit controlling, Maybe they are.
Maybe it's like reciprocated. These are something I think we
all have felt, and that is why I'm so excited
to introduce today's guest, Georgie Collinson. Now, Georgie is a
bit of an expert in anxiety, but specifically relationship anxiety.
She wrote a book, The Anxiety Reset Method, which was
loved by Oprah herself. It made Oprah's Book Club, which
(01:41):
is a pretty big deal for anyone that's ever written
a book. And she's just written her second book about
anxiety and relationships, which is what we're going to be
speaking about today. Georgie, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Thanks so much, ladies. It's been a crazy ride, that's
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Georgie.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We start every interview the same way, and that is
without accidently unfiltered stories.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Could you tell us what is your most embarrassing story?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Okay, so immediately a dating story came to mind because
they're just so easy and considering the relationship anxiety topic.
So this was a few years ago. I went on
a date with a guy and he texted me fifteen
minutes before the date. We were meeting at a wine bar.
I was all dressed up ready to go, and he's like, Hey,
is it okay if I go home and shower. I've
(02:24):
just been at the gym and I was already on
my waist. I said, sorry, I'm already like almost here.
And he turns up on the date. He's in trackies
and sweaty gym clothes, and I kind of just sort
of went along with it. Then he orders I know,
like it was just such a weird thing, and it's
like the bar so low. We did tell you two
(02:45):
it well, I know, but it was kind of one
of those moments of like, you know, I'm already here,
and I didn't want to use the plans, so when
along with it, and he orders a herbal tea, I
order a glass of wine because I mean we're at
a wine bar, and I was like, are you oh cool?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Like do you not drink? And he's like, nah, nah,
I just don't feel like it.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
So I was kind of like, okay, like he's not
really getting into the vibe here. Then he tells me
that on his bucket list he wants to die in space,
and I was kind.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
Of like, well, that's not really.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
A bucket list thing, because you know, and the kicker
is that I actually organized with my brother to call me,
you know when you do that so that like you've
got the emergency excuse to get out of the date.
And I didn't answer the phone, like I just couldn't leave.
I was kind of stuck in it because I felt
so I don't know, I've used to do this thing,
particularly where I would just like, oh, it was just
(03:39):
all crashing down. I would just stay there trying to
be nice. And then at the end he wanted to
split the bill, and so he got his four dollar
curbal tea and I got my eight dollar glass of wine.
The waiter was like looking at us awkward. It was
just so embarrassing. And that's my story, and I think
sums up kind of a journey that I've taken in relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And he literally just combined like I think there were
like four different horrific dates I've been on that were
all in that one story.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Like in your.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
One, it's really grim out there, like it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Are you single?
Speaker 6 (04:13):
Now?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
I have a beautiful partner now, thank goodness, I'm out
of that crazy world.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So Georgie, tell me how it came across your desk
that like Oprah wanted you in her book club. Did
Oprah slung DMS herself? Does she give you a call?
How does that work? I've always wondered because I've been
waiting for the Oprah call for a while, but hasn't happened.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I know, I so wish it was that way, But
it was literally through my publisher in the US.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
They sent me an email and they were like, Oprah's
people are looking at your book.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
And that was so exciting that you just don't really
know what's happening. There's still quite a lot of distance
between me and Oprah unfortunately, but she.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Has held my book in her hand, yes, and that it's.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Like you've got the feature and all of that. So
it was super, super exciting when that happened.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
What was it about, specifically relationship anxiety that you wanted
to delve into the research for, because, like I mean,
we've spoken about anxiety in general on the podcast before,
we've done episodes of it, but never deep dive into
anxieties around relationships. And you know, I think so many
of us have found ourselves questioning whether we're settling, or
questioning whether the relationship that we're in is the right relationship,
(05:21):
worrying about what's coming along for us. But why was
it specifically this type of anxiety that you found yourself
interested in?
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
The reason is I was so good at managing anxiety
and all other areas of my life, and I was
helping clients around the world doing so many great things,
but whenever it came to a relationship scenario, it could
just bring me to my knees.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
It was my cryptonite, and I.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Was just determined to get to the bottom of this
and figure out, you know, what's going on here and
why a relationship such a vulnerable sort of area for me,
And I was discovering more and more it was the
same for my clients, you know. And really, if we
could sum it up, it comes down to the fact
that our nervous systems are so connected to the people
around us. And that's partly because we're tribal beings and
(06:05):
our intimate relationship can be such a source of support
and calm. But we also have to have done the
work within ourselves to be able to receive that, and
a lot of us have had very good reasons to
maybe not feel so safe, and I mean safe in
a subtle way like emotionally safe with our partners in
(06:25):
in relationships.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So what is relationship anxiety and what are some examples
of it?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
It sounds like thoughts like what if they leave me?
Can I trust them? What if I'm not good enough
for them? Or it might sound like we're afraid we're
stuck in a bad situation, like what if I'm settling
and I'm trapped in this relationship? Or what if I'm
not quite with the right person or we're not in
love enough, we're not attracted to each other enough. What
if I am somehow going to lose myself in this relationship.
(06:53):
That's another big source of anxiety too, that we're going
to lose our own identity and not really be able
to be our own autonomous. So maybe I'll be happier
with someone else is another thought that can come up. Yeah,
and if you're single, it's like, well, what if I'm
alone forever? Or you know, what if I never meet
the right person and I'm too broken for healthy love,
but typically like part of that relationship anxiety.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Is it something that you were experiencing yourself, And if so,
how long were you in that before you had the
self realization, like the self awareness to be like, oh,
hang on a minute, like I'm doing this to myself.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
So I started off with a six year relationship in
my twenties that was like really quite stable and lovely,
and you know, I actually refer to this kind of
relationship as base love in my book. So we've got
these three stages of love that we've moved through. The
first one is kind of like you're together and usually
it's not too much drama, but for whatever reason, you
move apart in different directions.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
And it might have.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Been that you chose that person because it was kind
of like what your parents would have wanted for you,
or what you thought you wanted, but you weren't quite
attached to or aware of what your authentic self needs
and wants to relationship. So I left that relationship and
went into a really chaotic relationship. It was the chaotic
love phase. And at the time, at the beginning, I
(08:09):
thought this was amazing. It was just like heaven. And
then it was hell. So it was so much love
and passion and we had this long distance romance.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I met him in Greece. He was this British marine.
He was traveling the world and sounds like a book.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It was a book, like I lived this fairy tale,
but it really required us to sort of both live
in a fantasy to keep that relationship going. And then
when I moved in with him, I moved over to England,
packed my bags like fully, dove into it.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
The whole thing changed.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Suddenly he was seeking any way he could to spend
time with other people and away from me, And I
was just alone in this tiny rainy seagull squawking down
in England with like no friends and just feeling like
so so riddled with anxiety because of that lack of
safety I was experiencing.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
But something you just mentioned then, I mean, you say
you're riddled with anxiety, but how do you know if
that is actually just your body telling you like, this
is a red flag, this is a situation shouldn't be in.
I think it's really quite important for people to be
able to figure out what is it that is real
and what is it that we are like creating in
ourselves and manifesting ourselves.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Yes, So at that point I didn't have the awareness
to know that this was actually kind of red flag
stuff for me. And you know, maybe a different person
with different life experiences could have perhaps made it work
with that situation, But for me, I didn't realize how
much I needed a consistent, available partner and someone who
(09:40):
was safe, someone who was able to show up for
me time and time again. It was something I tried
to pretend I was okay with and this was a
pattern that went back to childhood.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
So the more that I was able to explore.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
The origins of how I'd ended up in this situation,
why I was sort of repeating these patterns, it became
easier to then later identify, ah, this is a past thing,
it's not actually something that's occurring now, And I could
look at the situation. I mean now, so even with
my partner that I'm with now, we're in a healthy,
secure relationship. This is the stage I call expansive love,
(10:13):
where you're with a partner you can actually grow with.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
Now it's not always.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Rainbows and butterflies, like you're gonna have challenges, You're still
going to have conflict, but rather than getting lost in
Oh no, it's all over now and this is it,
and that he's going to leave me.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I can see if that.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Thought were to occur in my mind, I can see, well,
that's actually a past thing. It's not the reality of
what he's showing up with the consistency he's bringing to.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
The table here.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
So with that awareness, you can start to see, Okay,
is this a past issue or is it a now
thing that's actually showing up. When I was in England
with that ex like that was a now problem, Like
he was really not showing up for me the way
that I need it. When we become more aware of
what we need to it's going to be clearer to
see whether.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
You're getting that or not in that relationship.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
And again we can sort of match up what's going
on in reality now as opposed to what can happen
with anxiety where we're getting like an emotional flashback to
the past. You know, it usually reminds us of oh,
hang on, this is how I felt when I was
a little child, and you know, I had a dad
who was really busy, really and consistently there. Even though
(11:20):
he was there, he was just like, you know, a
lot of dads work hard working, yaha, YadA. But he
wasn't really able to be there in an emotional way
for me either, and so that was actually quite painful.
But you know, this is common, this is normal, so
we don't really see that as a problem. But these
patterns are subtle and they show up later in our lives.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do you think these patterns are always indicative? Like do
you think you always move into relationships that are formed
based on the experiences that you've had when you were younger.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Yes, unless we are consciously choosing something else. And that's
the kicker. That's the thing, Like, that's why I chose
a partner unconsciously who was moving around the world and
so exciting, because hey, my dad was never like they're
consistently for me, So it wasn't like they were the
same person, but it was the same pattern of.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
He's here sometimes, oh my god, it's so great.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And the same feeling.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Yes, yeah, that's it, And what's happening is the inner
child and us.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
We can't help it.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
We're trying to resolve the pain from the past. We're
trying to get a happy ending. It's like, if I
can find a character in my story that matches up
that same kind of energy, and this time I can
make it work, Like this time I'll get them to
love me and be here for me and have the
happy ending. That's sort of what we're going for. But
(12:34):
of course it's just not practical if we're consistently with
someone who is not showing up the way we need.
So we need to eventually see what's going on, choose differently,
Choose actually I'm going to show up as the woman
now or the grown adults seeking a partner, or in
this relationship I'm in, and I'm going to actually speak
for what I need. You know, these are things that
(12:56):
I can do now that I couldn't when I was
a child.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
You mentioned these three love phases, and I love the
idea of this base love, chaotic love, and expansive love.
Do people always move through these three phases or is
it a case where you might get stuck on one
and never make it to the end one or the
first one?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, like, is it always within this patent order
or do people experience it differently?
Speaker 6 (13:20):
Well?
Speaker 5 (13:20):
I wish life always had like a perfect happy ending
for everyone. But of course, if we don't turn inward
and like, actually look at our shit and face this stuff.
We can get caught in some of that chaotic love
and find ourselves kind of churning around and around. Some
people will go through the three stages with the same person.
That's what's fascinating too. And I've seen this evolt for
like people I know who've been in marriages where they
(13:42):
were together from seventeen and they used to like maybe
someone cheated on the other, but they like worked through
it and now they've become they've sort of grown up together.
But often we will move through this with different people.
Sounds like you might know someone who's been through that.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
No, No, I've just we were both We're just so
instinct we're both like.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
No.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I mean, it's interesting when you make these references because
I like, you know, I think about my own experiences
and I'm like, I feel like I follow this exact pattern.
The only thing is is I also know people who
have stayed in chaotic love, and it's like they never
ever either they didn't meet someone where they were conscious
of it, that it was a different thing, or they
just were always.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Going after the same pattern behavior.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But I feel like a lot of people it's like
they get to the chaotic love and they can't move
beyond it. Yeah, and then also this feeling of like
bad relationships happen to me and I don't know why,
I'm always the one who never finds the right person.
And it's this understanding of like we also attract and
make choices in the people that we date.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, you spoke just before about trying to figure out
if it's a now problem or a past problem when
you're in a relationship and trying to differentiate between anxiety
or a red flag. But are there any other tools
that you or people can use that you tell your
clients to use in addition to the is it a
now or is it a past problem to differentiate those
red flags or not, because I think a lot of
people can flate the two or get it confused. It
(15:00):
gets very blurry for people that might not have past issues,
because I know for me, I have zero past issues.
Like I had the most normal, healthy, loving, stable childhood.
My parents are still together, like I had that, but
I still were in the most horrific relationships with like
the biggest red flags that caused anxiety. If you have
had this stable relationship growing up with everyone else, all
(15:22):
these external sources, how.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Do you know if it's a red flag or if
it isn't your anxiety.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
So here's the really interesting thing. We get so confused
about what love really is. And often this can start
and will start in our childhoods and in our family
group because we'll be told we all love each other
and look at our like happy family picture together. I
had a really beautiful childhood as well, and I had
(15:49):
like you know, I would have never thought that that
would have led me to have issues or things come
up later in life.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
But the more that I explored.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
My subconscious mind, and this is something I do a
lot in my work and I talk about in the
book too, I actually realized there were these little moments
where I started to interpret and perceive things about myself
based on what was going on. So, for example, if I,
you know, was missing my dad because he wasn't he
(16:17):
was at work. You know, again, he wasn't doing that
to me. He wasn't like a drunk or doing anything
like majorly red flaggy. You know, he was just working
as a busy person trying to provide for the family.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
But that was painful in my heart, Like I missed
him as a three year old.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
As a four year old, five year old, I didn't
have the words to communicate that, and I started to
believe certain things about myself, like, you know, works more
important than me, and I'm not that important. And this
started to change then as an adult. Okay, if I'm
dating a man works more important than me, I'm not
that important and I won't speak up for what I
need as clearly as I could. So we start to
(16:57):
believe these things about love that aren't really love. Again,
I'm told, no, your dad loves you. He loves you,
he's here for you. So again, I'm dating someone inconsistent.
I'm dating someone who's like obsessed with their work and
doesn't really show up that much in a relationship. But
I'm telling myself now, but.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
He likes you, he loves you. It's okay, like, just
settle for this. This is all right.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
And so this is how this starts to develop. It
doesn't always occur from like really dramatic upbringing scenarios. It
can come in these subtle ways that it's fascinating to
go and explore that and see that about yourself. But
you'll also you know, as you as you've become more
confident in yourself and like own what you need and
what you deserve.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
That also becomes easier to communicate.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
In terms of if you're someone who recognizes that you
have patterns in the types of relationships that you get into.
Once you've realized that, how do you go about breaking
or dismantling what these patterns look like?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
That's such a good question, that is that is the
million dollar question. And for me, what it looked like
so once I was really aware, and I know so
many people do get to this point where maybe you've
done a lot of talk therapy, a lot of podcasts,
a lot of self help books, and you're like I
can see like, oh my goodness, I keep doing the problem.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I keep doing this. Yeah, and what I started to
do because you can be quite mean to yourself.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Then you can start like beating yourself up. But I
did it again, look at me. I just can't stop
doing it.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I also think it's like you almost start to not
trust your ability to judge someone's character or make choices.
You know, I mean, if you've had like a certain
pattern of relationships and it's resulted in the same outcome,
you do question, Okay, Well, then how do I trust
who it is that I'm choosing to be in a
relationship with.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Yes, exactly. And these patterns are quite addictive. So I
equate this to like when you want to stop eating chocolate.
For example, if you tell yourself I can't eat chcolate
not allowed chocolate, Suddenly it becomes a taboo and you
just want it more. Right, It's the same thing with
trying to break these patterns. If we say I'm just
gonna stop going for the bad boy, you know, I'm
just gonna not go for that person. I'm so attracted
(18:58):
to what I do and recommend for my clients.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Of what I did was I started to let myself
play out the pattern.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
But instead of just doing it unconsciously, I did it
with my eyes open.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
I was watching what would happen.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
So I would feel the attraction to someone I knew
I should not feel attraction to, and I used it
as an opportunity to learn and gather information. So I
watched what would happen, I watched how I showed up.
I let it sort of unfold. Obviously, not to the
point where we're getting into like I'm two years deep
in something that's not great for me. You know, this
is just like over a couple of weeks and I
(19:34):
let myself sort of see what would happen, and eventually
what occurred was I realized this is a dead end.
It's like looking at the most delicious ice cream that
you love and yet knowing it spiked with a flavor
that you hate. You're seeing this person in front of
you who you know. Your mind is saying, oh, good
work out, this is gonna be okay, but your wiser
(19:56):
self knows this is a dead end. This person cannot
show up, as you know, the person that's stable, the
person's going to be there in the hospital room with me,
the person who's going to be a great father too,
if we had children, you know, or whatever it might
be that you want, and suddenly it clicks and you
naturally can become disinterested in following that same old pattern again.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, and I think we lie to ourselves a lot. Well,
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I know, we lie to ourselves a lot because we
fall in love with or become obsessed with the potential
of what a relationship is and the potential of someone
and what they could offer us if we hang around
or if I change them a little bit and teach
them to be like this that maybe in five years
they will be a great dad and they will stop
fucking up and they will stop cheating on me. And
we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better. And
(20:43):
I think that links into the anxiety you spoke about
at the start of well is it better to settle now?
Because I have so much anxiety about being alone and
never finding like that amazing person.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Does that amazing person even exist?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And this is fresh in mind for me because I
put an Instagram post up yesterday on something that Laura
and I were talking about about how amazing it feels
that I waited and I found like a really safe love.
And I was quite shocked at the number of people
that were commenting and writing to me in my dms
that were so down and out about the dating scene
(21:17):
and about them never finding anyone. Like so many people
were being like, well, that must be nice, but like,
I'm never going to find it, Like it's never for me.
I've tried so hard and meant a shit. It made
me really upset because I thought, Wow, you must have
gone through quite a lot of really shitty situations and
this anxiety in a relationship to feel like you were
in your thirties.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And already like taking yourself out of the game.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yes, And can I just say that, you know, I
was single until thirty two and just like totally in
that place.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
You know, I really had to grieve.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You know, the bride having the big wedding and all
of these fantasies that twenty five year old me had, right,
And so I really feel that and it just is
so so painful and what we're seeing in that scenario
when people are in that state, and I've been there,
I get it. It's a learned helplessness, is what it's called.
And it's essentially when we flash back emotionally to being
(22:10):
a child again, where we truly were at some point powerless.
All of us experienced our childhoods where we didn't get
to make the choices for our lives. If you were
upset and that that parent wasn't able to be there
for you, if they were saying, oh, you're being so
difficult for me, just go to your room, and then
you're left alone to feel this pain in your heart
(22:31):
and cry, or maybe not cry because crying is not allowed,
or whatever it might be. You can't go anywhere else,
you've got no choices. So a lot of us might
have lived some version of that in our childhood. Now again,
fast forward to adulthood, we think we're still in that
powerless place again. We think that we have to get
along with these specific people in our lives, which as children,
(22:53):
you have to get along with your caregivers. Your life
depends on it. But the thing is, now, as an adult.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
You've got a choice.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
You've got a choice to choose and surround yourself with
different people, with people who do show up for you,
kind people, and often we can't see it until we
actually open our eyes to the possibility that it can
be different, that we don't have to continue choosing what
was familiar to us. Then, and that's where things really
start to shift. I think we have to see, you know,
(23:22):
beyond the there are no good men out there or
every you know, dating's always terrible. It's like, yeah, no,
there are also really good, genuine people out there, like
tons of them, just like you, that want what you
want to. If you exist and you want it, someone
else out there wants it to and they're looking for you.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But Georgie, in that sense, then how do you rewrite
your type, because if you're someone who's driven by chemistry,
if you're driven by this, like really like I need
to be so attracted to the person to feel as
though that this relationship is going to have the same
longevity of whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like the chaoti.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yeah, it's like, you know, we all know that you
can be attracted to things that are like really quite toxic.
That's what brings it in toxicity. But then for some
people that's like the stable, reliable kind love is not
exciting and so therefore it's not their type of person.
How does someone know if they're conflating the two, and
how do we rewire what our type is?
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yeah, I was so scared that I would have to
settle for a boring relationship to just be safe, and
that it was going.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
To be, yeah, to be taken care of. Yeah, that
it was going to be so dull. And it's really funny.
I'll tell you a quick story about a dream that
I had where I was in a car with a
guy who represented so this. In my dream, we're driving
along the highway. He represented everything that I was attracted
to and wanted, even that was completely wrong for me,
And we were driving up and then all of a sudden,
(24:44):
the road became really steep and it was like a cliff,
and we started sort of falling backwards off the road,
and the car just like lurched, and I looked at
him and I said, I love you, and he looked
at me and was just fear struck and wide eyed
and didn't say anything back, and then off we fell
back down and crashed at the bottom.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Sounds terrible, Georgie here, I mean dreams like.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
It was a scary one. Everything went black.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I looked out the window of the car, like we're
in this crash site now, and I see this calm,
meandering road up the cliff that I could have taken
that was lined with grass and flowers, and it was
much more gentle of an incline, and it really metaphorically
represented for me that I was choosing the hard road
(25:30):
in relationships in love. I was making it hard for
myself because I was trying to prove a sense of
now I'm worthy. If I can get this really tough,
challenging person to love me, then I'm worthy. And it
was like, oh, but you could also just take this path.
And what I found when I met my current partner
and I had to actually have this realization before I
(25:51):
met him, is that that kind of a relationship that's
the meandering, steady road that's actually going to work and
can have that happy ending that isn't boring when you
are growing and committed to sort of like deepening that
intimacy because they're always going to mirror something back to
you about yourself. You're constantly learning. It becomes so exciting
(26:12):
to see what can actually happen if I deepen this intimacy,
if I'm with this person for three years, five years,
ten years plus, then what happens. This can get really
interesting and fascinating from there, and that's what opens up
for us in expansive love, in chaotic love, we're kind
of there's still a part of this that isn't ready
to go on that deeper journey because we're still believing
(26:33):
in some way that that is going to be limiting
for us, that it's perhaps not even safe for us.
So unintentionally, unconsciously we're kind of sabotaging, like you said,
brit we're sabotaging that happy ending kind of relationship, the
thing that could actually work out for us, that can
really sum up sort of how we can sort of
stay stuck in some of these chaotic patterns.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
It's also interesting, like when you self analyze when we
have these commons and Laura and I we've had these
conversations for six years with specialists in all of their fields,
and I would like to think we're so well educated,
but I even find myself doing it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Now my fiance Ben.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Is just a dream like it's so safe, he's so
emotionally available. He gives me everything that I need in
a relationship. And sometimes I find myself being like boring
because we don't fight. And I'm not saying boring is
in I don't want to be in a relationship, but sometimes,
and it happens when we haven't seen each other for
a while, but sometimes I'll try and pick a fight
(27:34):
with him, and I know I'm doing it, but I'm like,
you're too nice, And I know that's when I check
myself and I have to go back to my past
relationships and I'm like, this is everything that you've ever wanted,
and this is what you need. And I find myself
going back to my super toxic relationships where you fought
all the time and you were like at each other's
throat and you thought that that's what that passionate love was.
(27:54):
And I'm like, hang on, I've got to check myself.
I'm picking a fight now because you're too good to me. Like,
that's me self sabotaged.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, but don't you think that's also a byproduct of
like it kind of only comes out for you guys
when you've spent too much time Apart said it's like
a condition of long distance.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I just think sometimes we convince ourselves.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
My point of that is, sometimes we convince ourselves that
something is a boring relationship. But the number of psychologists
and relationship therapistode we've spoken to that says a relationship
essentially should be boring to be healthy and not boring
as in you don't have fun and excitement, but boring
in terms of like how stable you feel.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah. See, from my perspective, that's interesting because now you
get to do that work of ooh, look at what
I'm doing. This is interesting. That's my old This is
like a part of me that's old. It's a pattern
where I'm trying to keep that familiar, you know, chaotic
scenario kind of going for whatever reason. Maybe it's when
things are more chaotic, you feel more worthy of being
(28:51):
loved because Okay, now I've got the challenge and I've like,
you know, secured that down. We can have that little
inner dialogue going. And if we can continue doing that,
that's what's going to take us out of chaotic love
into expansive love. In expansive love, we'll still have some
of those little bumps and challenges along the way, as
you've mentioned, but it's easier to navigate through them because
(29:13):
you have so much more awareness of yourself and the
ability to kind of like not let those parts of
you run the show anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Georgie.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Even in that, I mean, you've spoken a lot about
the four different types of fear that we can have
when we're in relationships, which kind of links into this
anxiety that we bring into it. What is it about
fear in general? And I'd love you to talk us
through those four types. But how is it that when
we show up with this we are derailing our own relationships.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Well, we can easily think that we're you know, not
in the right situation, when in fact, you know, we're
just feeding into, buying into unrealistic expectations about love. It's
so easy to like I was the person at parties
talking to my friends about how amazing my relationship was
and how passionate it was. But I was in a
chaotic love phase. I didn't realize yet that that heaven
(30:01):
was going to turn into hell. And so easily someone
could be sitting there listening to someone telling a story
about how amazing their relationship is, we have the most
incredible sex life, all of that, and then starts to
doubt their own relationship because it's not living up to that.
And I think with social media we're getting the higher
light reel. We see those like perfect couples on Instagram
(30:23):
all over the place, and it really does give this
sense of like, do they ever have fights like this?
Speaker 6 (30:28):
Do they ever worry about this? And that? So relationships
will just bring up all those insecurities and doubts and
worries for us for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Do you think you have to have anxiety or suffer
from anxiety to experience relationship anxiety?
Speaker 5 (30:44):
No, So I think it's one of those things that
just the nature of relationships, because they do tend to
bring up our deepest insecurities. Because so much of our
survival is dependent on having really.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Healthy, stable people. By our side.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
It's again, we're tribal beings. If we got kicked out
of the tribe, we don't survive. So we have to
find a way to continue belonging and feel connected. And
so that's just a scenario that is so rife to
bring up these worries and think like what if this
doesn't last, because we don't know if a relationship is
going to last, Like, no one can tell you one
hundred percent that this thing is perfectly certain. Even if
(31:23):
you're in a secure, healthy relationship, then it starts to
manifest is but what if something happens to them? You know,
what if they get sick? What if you know, they
don't come home from work today. So it's always kind
of going on within us until we start to build
that inner security with ourselves. And that really is that
reparenting work that I was just mentioning earlier.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
When you speak about this reparenting work, like, I mean,
what is the process?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Because I think for a lot of people, you can
recognize that you have patterns, or you can recognize that
there's some similarities between relationships from childhood to relationships that
are romantic relationships. But I think it's quite a process
to get to the point where not only do you
recognize it, but you know how to do something about it.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
Essentially, if we as children went through a period of
not getting what we needed, we don't emotionally mature from
that point. Our emotional maturity is kind of stunted and
we get stuck in a space. So you know, if
for example, we really want something we want to hug
and it's not there, you know, because mum's too busy
(32:25):
and stressed right now, we learn that that's not available
to me, and so again later in life, we're still
playing out this pattern of love isn't available to me,
or what I need isn't important, is not there unless
we go back and we start to see, okay, like
there is this part of me that's still a child.
And you'll know because doesn't it feel like you're still
a little child When you get into a state of
(32:46):
anxiety or when you feel really like triggered, you're just like, no,
I don't want this, or in my mind just sol
like throwing a tantrum, or feeling really like you've gone
from one second being a super confident, capable person who
just like I can't do anything, and I don't know
if I'm doing life right. And so we've become aware
that that's what's happened, that this inner child has momentarily
(33:09):
taken control of the steering wheel of our life, and
we can see what's going on, and we can bring
out this other part of us that is always there.
And you know, like as a parent, you can be
totally overwhelmed, but also have a baby that's crying and
you can still bring out that parent in you that
needs to suit the baby right, Like, you can still
do that. So it's doing that for yourself. It's bringing
(33:32):
out this part of you that's like, you know what,
We've got this, I've got you, and I'm going to
keep you safe and I'm going to take you now
to go have a shower. I'm going to take you
now to eat some food, or I'm going to give
you the love that you needed. You didn't get that
hug when you're a child. I'm going to give you
a hug, even if it feels weird.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean, it's such a tricky one because I think
about it in terms of and like you said, Britt,
when you're like I grew up in a household that
you know, if you had like a conflicted childhood, it's
so easy to pinpoint those triggers. But then I also think,
like when you're a parent, when you listen to like
how your kids can be affected, you think, fuck, it
doesn't even matter if I'm a good parent, I'm still
gonna fuck my kids up there.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
The next thing I was about to say is all
I'm hearing is is how fucking hard being a parent is.
That's how every decision you make is impact your kids.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
But also I think stress.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I mean, on the flip side of that, I know
that that seems like such an obvious thing to interpret it,
like it's kind of a selfish way to interpret it
if you're a parent.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I'm not a parent, and that's what I was thinking,
But I.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Also question it's like it's an unavoidable truth, like it's
an impossibility to give another person one hundred percent of
everything they need at every single point in time. And
actually I would almost debate that it's not healthy to
because then where's the resilience building, where are all the
other qualities that come from tending to someone's every single
backing call? You know, I think kids, I'm not saying
(34:50):
neglect your kids. But there's definitely going to be times
where they have to wait for you to emotionally regulate them,
because children also need to learn to emotionally regulate themselves.
It's such an interesting thing to unpack as we're adults.
But I don't think it necessarily always comes with blame
as to how the parents and how your parents interacted
with you.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It's never about blame. It's just about understanding.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
And you know, even when you find yourself as a
parent hearing this and like it can bring up that
oh god, am I doing the right thing? Even that
is a part to just notice within yourself that most
of us have. That's like I want to be perfect,
you know, I want to do the perfect job. I've
got to get this right. But we can even reparent
that part.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
So that part is.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Thinking you have to get it perfect to be good enough,
and ultimately that's not true. You don't have to be
a perfect parent. So that's part of maturing. That's part
of reparenting yourself as you parent. And yes, your kids
are going to interpret things in their own way. You know,
you could go out to the clothesline for five minutes
and they might think, oh, my goodness, Mum's not coming back,
(35:50):
but you just do your best to come back when
moments happen where you are disregulated and you find yourself.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Yelling and everyone just leave me alone.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
If that comes out, you know, it's also okay to
repair in the aftermath of that. And most of us
did not experience that in our families where someone said, hey,
my bad, like that was on me. I'm sorry, guys,
like that's not your fault. Mum's just feeling really overwhelmed
right now, but I'm going to take care of myself
and you don't have to worry, Like we didn't really
(36:21):
hear that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Like our parents certainly weren't the generation for apologizing or accountability,
and I think that there has definitely been a shift
in terms of like the understanding that there will be
times as a parent you're dysregulated and you might say
something in a tone, or you might yell, or you
might just react in a way that you don't feel
proud of afterwards. But I definitely don't think that our
parents were conditioned to apologize for that, whereas I do
(36:46):
think we are very much.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
So I just wanted to say there's something that made
me giggle in it's just there is just to really
reiterate that there is no right or wrong way or
perfect way to parent, is that I have a friend
that I was talking to recently that is currently in
therapy because their parents were too good. And I know
this sounds ridiculous, but they were like my mum and
(37:10):
dad gave me everything I needed.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
They do everything for me.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
The way they showed love was like making sure all
my washing is constantly done as an adult, they still
go and do these things.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
For them now that they can't function because they were overfunctioning
for their kids. Well, it's like doing a disservice to
your children doing that.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But that's my point.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
My point is there is no way to say, hey,
I'm trying to be a perfect parent because this family
did everything they could to be the perfect parent and
their kids stealing therapy because it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Was too much.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
So like I just didn't want anyone to listen at
home being like, oh my god, I have anxiety now
about me doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
There one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Is no right, completely right or wrong way. Obviously, there's
things you can do that you know are wrong, but I.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Would object there are some completely wrong ways.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's what I'm saying, but that they're the obvious things.
But in terms of the day to day of oh,
should I be doing my kids washing, should I have yelled?
Should I apologize? All of these things, there's no way
to know. So what impact that is ever going to
have on your child, either way positively or negatively. As
long as you know that you're showing up and doing
the best that you can as a parent.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Yeah, I think you do your best to make them
feel loved no matter what. But when a parent is
consistently doing everything for their child, like I've taken care
of that, or don't worry, I've done this, you don't
need to worry about that, it can actually foster a
sense of lacking self trust and not building that sense of, oh,
I can do it. It makes sense to me why
that would lead to possibly anxiety later in life, because
(38:29):
there's like a sense of I'm not actually capable because
I always needed these big people to do everything for me,
and now I'm an adult alone in the world.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
And I can't do it.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
So yes, I can sort of actually see how that
might occur. And this just again comes back to our
self awareness but part of self awareness is our imperfection too,
like we are just never going to get everything perfect,
and that's okay.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I read a really interesting article around exactly what you
just mentioned then, Georgie, and it was kind of dictating
that parents who do run to try and fix every
single feeling of discomfort that a child has not just
the disservice that they're doing to their own children in
terms of resilience building everything else, but also the only
reason why you're doing that is to fix your own
discomfort because you can't handle. So it's actually like a selfish,
(39:15):
self fulfilling prophecy. You're doing it because you can't handle
the fact that your child is in an uncomfortable state,
and so you're rubbing them at the ability to problem
solve and to fix their own issues because it's your
issue that you've made it to fix. And I found
that such an interesting take because I do think that
you know, as parents, you never want your kids to
feel any level of pain, and especially if you come
(39:38):
from a childhood or you've had that experience yourself, Like
I think sometimes we can be in the situation where
we overcorrect.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
It, yes, for sure, And I think this is why
the more we can just do that work on ourselves.
As like cliche as it sounds, we're simply role modeling that. Like,
it's not so much what you tell others to do,
whether it's your children or your friends or your family,
it's what are you doing and embodying within yourself.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
So if you're becoming more okay with your.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Own uncomfortable emotions, you are naturally going to model that
for others who are in pain. And one of the
most healing things you can do, like if you have
a friend or a child who's crying in front of
you they're in pain, is to not actually be worried
about them in that. It's simply to just be with
them in that and say, I can see how much
this hurts. Yeah, it's okay, to just feel this, And
(40:24):
that is the most oh like relieving thing to just
be seen in your pain and not have someone rush
you through it or say, oh, but come on, don't
cry like it's all okay.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
And let's just feel gratitude right now. If you could
just be in it, it passes and then we've got
this beautiful relief on the other side.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
In terms of the anxiety and relationships, and the people
you've spoken to and helped over the years, what seems
to be like the number one stand out issue that
they're experiencing. And by that I mean, is it more
self doubt I'm not good enough? Is it more issues
worried about being alone? Or is it more issues about
trust and like your partner chieving and constantly.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Wanting to check their phone.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Is there something that's a real standout for the people
that you've spoken to over the years.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
That's such a good question because it really is like
an amalgamation of possibly even just those three things you said,
it's feeling. Well, if we can sum up everything, it
always comes back to I'm not enough in some way.
So if I feel alone, for example, going through this
emotional distress or just alone in life, it's because I
don't feel capable. I don't feel enough to be with
(41:32):
this experience. I don't feel like I can handle it.
If we don't trust ourselves. Again, I'm not enough to
have the knowing, the wisdom, the capability to navigate life
decisions in an intelligent or safe way. So again, that's
why I would bring it all down to, is the
root of everything is I'm not enough.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
We all have it.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Georgie, thank you so much for coming and being a
part of the podcast. I know that every time we
have conversations around like pattern behaviors in relationships, there's a
lot of self awareness that comes with it. I think
there's a lot of people who have these moments where
they're like, Okay, that's exactly what I do. But it's
always the question around how do you fix that and
how do you break it? Which I think a lot
of people are left with, like you see the pattern
and then you just don't really know what's your way out.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
And also is something normal or not? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Absolutely, And in terms of anxiety and relationships, I think
it's something that every single person goes through in different ways.
Maybe it presents and manifests differently, but it all definitely
is stuff that if you've been in the dating world
and you've been single, like every single person experiences this.
So thank you so much for all your wisdom, but
also for something that is like truly universal that we
(42:43):
all experience.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
My pleasure, it's so you know, meaningful to be able
to share it with everyone.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
So hope it's helpful.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Well.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Georgie's new book Master your relationship, anxiety and her social
media is all going to be linked in our show notes.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So are you're going to send that one to Oprah
as well?
Speaker 6 (42:57):
I will pass it on to Oprah.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Las ourbook on two.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Thanks joking, Thanks so much, Georgie, Thank you guys, appreciate it.
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on cart I'm Brittany and I'm Laura, and today we are.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Talking anxiety, but specifically relationship anxiety.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And I think it's something that when you have.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
A look at yourself a bit of self reflection, think
back to all the dating that you've done, if you're single,
think back to all the feelings that you've felt when
you're in the tumultuous dating world. Anxiety is something that
rears its ugly head consistently.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Well for anyone who's not sure in terms of like
what could constitute that feeling. It's like if you've ever
found yourself googling am I settling in a relationship? Have
you ever sort of been questioning whether you're self sabotaging?
Have you ever kind of found yourself having the same
pattern behaviors in relationships that make you feel unsafe, unstable?
(00:58):
And I think a really big part of it is
recognizing what is anxiety and what is real, like what
is actually a very real feeling because your relationship is
not the right relationship, and differentiating which is which.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, and those feelings of like you don't even have
to have googled it. But the feelings of am I enough,
The feelings of do I trust him?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Do I want to go through his phone? Where is he?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Maybe you're feeling a little bit controlling, Maybe they are.
Maybe it's like reciprocated. These are something I think we
all have felt, and that is why I'm so excited
to introduce today's guest, Georgie Collinson. Now, Georgie is a
bit of an expert in anxiety, but specifically relationship anxiety.
She wrote a book, The Anxiety Reset Method, which was
loved by Oprah herself. It made Oprah's Book Club, which
(01:41):
is a pretty big deal for anyone that's ever written
a book. And she's just written her second book about
anxiety and relationships, which is what we're going to be
speaking about today. Georgie, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
Thanks so much, ladies. It's been a crazy ride, that's
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Georgie.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
We start every interview the same way, and that is
without accidently unfiltered stories.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Could you tell us what is your most embarrassing story?
Speaker 5 (02:02):
Okay, so immediately a dating story came to mind because
they're just so easy and considering the relationship anxiety topic.
So this was a few years ago. I went on
a date with a guy and he texted me fifteen
minutes before the date. We were meeting at a wine bar.
I was all dressed up ready to go, and he's like, Hey,
is it okay if I go home and shower. I've
(02:24):
just been at the gym and I was already on
my waist. I said, sorry, I'm already like almost here.
And he turns up on the date. He's in trackies
and sweaty gym clothes, and I kind of just sort
of went along with it. Then he orders I know,
like it was just such a weird thing, and it's
like the bar so low. We did tell you two
(02:45):
it well, I know, but it was kind of one
of those moments of like, you know, I'm already here,
and I didn't want to use the plans, so when
along with it, and he orders a herbal tea, I
order a glass of wine because I mean we're at
a wine bar, and I was like, are you oh cool?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Like do you not drink? And he's like, nah, nah,
I just don't feel like it.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
So I was kind of like, okay, like he's not
really getting into the vibe here. Then he tells me
that on his bucket list he wants to die in space,
and I was kind.
Speaker 6 (03:16):
Of like, well, that's not really.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
A bucket list thing, because you know, and the kicker
is that I actually organized with my brother to call me,
you know when you do that so that like you've
got the emergency excuse to get out of the date.
And I didn't answer the phone, like I just couldn't leave.
I was kind of stuck in it because I felt
so I don't know, I've used to do this thing,
particularly where I would just like, oh, it was just
(03:39):
all crashing down. I would just stay there trying to
be nice. And then at the end he wanted to
split the bill, and so he got his four dollar
curbal tea and I got my eight dollar glass of wine.
The waiter was like looking at us awkward. It was
just so embarrassing. And that's my story, and I think
sums up kind of a journey that I've taken in relationships.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And he literally just combined like I think there were
like four different horrific dates I've been on that were
all in that one story.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Like in your.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
One, it's really grim out there, like it's really hard.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Are you single?
Speaker 6 (04:13):
Now?
Speaker 5 (04:14):
I have a beautiful partner now, thank goodness, I'm out
of that crazy world.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So Georgie, tell me how it came across your desk
that like Oprah wanted you in her book club. Did
Oprah slung DMS herself? Does she give you a call?
How does that work? I've always wondered because I've been
waiting for the Oprah call for a while, but hasn't happened.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
I know, I so wish it was that way, But
it was literally through my publisher in the US.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
They sent me an email and they were like, Oprah's
people are looking at your book.
Speaker 5 (04:43):
And that was so exciting that you just don't really
know what's happening. There's still quite a lot of distance
between me and Oprah unfortunately, but she.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Has held my book in her hand, yes, and that it's.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
Like you've got the feature and all of that. So
it was super, super exciting when that happened.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
What was it about, specifically relationship anxiety that you wanted
to delve into the research for, because, like I mean,
we've spoken about anxiety in general on the podcast before,
we've done episodes of it, but never deep dive into
anxieties around relationships. And you know, I think so many
of us have found ourselves questioning whether we're settling, or
questioning whether the relationship that we're in is the right relationship,
(05:21):
worrying about what's coming along for us. But why was
it specifically this type of anxiety that you found yourself
interested in?
Speaker 6 (05:28):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (05:28):
The reason is I was so good at managing anxiety
and all other areas of my life, and I was
helping clients around the world doing so many great things,
but whenever it came to a relationship scenario, it could
just bring me to my knees.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
It was my cryptonite, and I.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
Was just determined to get to the bottom of this
and figure out, you know, what's going on here and
why a relationship such a vulnerable sort of area for me,
And I was discovering more and more it was the
same for my clients, you know. And really, if we
could sum it up, it comes down to the fact
that our nervous systems are so connected to the people
around us. And that's partly because we're tribal beings and
(06:05):
our intimate relationship can be such a source of support
and calm. But we also have to have done the
work within ourselves to be able to receive that, and
a lot of us have had very good reasons to
maybe not feel so safe, and I mean safe in
a subtle way like emotionally safe with our partners in
(06:25):
in relationships.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So what is relationship anxiety and what are some examples
of it?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
It sounds like thoughts like what if they leave me?
Can I trust them? What if I'm not good enough
for them? Or it might sound like we're afraid we're
stuck in a bad situation, like what if I'm settling
and I'm trapped in this relationship? Or what if I'm
not quite with the right person or we're not in
love enough, we're not attracted to each other enough. What
if I am somehow going to lose myself in this relationship.
(06:53):
That's another big source of anxiety too, that we're going
to lose our own identity and not really be able
to be our own autonomous. So maybe I'll be happier
with someone else is another thought that can come up. Yeah,
and if you're single, it's like, well, what if I'm
alone forever? Or you know, what if I never meet
the right person and I'm too broken for healthy love,
but typically like part of that relationship anxiety.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Is it something that you were experiencing yourself, And if so,
how long were you in that before you had the
self realization, like the self awareness to be like, oh,
hang on a minute, like I'm doing this to myself.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
So I started off with a six year relationship in
my twenties that was like really quite stable and lovely,
and you know, I actually refer to this kind of
relationship as base love in my book. So we've got
these three stages of love that we've moved through. The
first one is kind of like you're together and usually
it's not too much drama, but for whatever reason, you
move apart in different directions.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
And it might have.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Been that you chose that person because it was kind
of like what your parents would have wanted for you,
or what you thought you wanted, but you weren't quite
attached to or aware of what your authentic self needs
and wants to relationship. So I left that relationship and
went into a really chaotic relationship. It was the chaotic
love phase. And at the time, at the beginning, I
(08:09):
thought this was amazing. It was just like heaven. And
then it was hell. So it was so much love
and passion and we had this long distance romance.
Speaker 6 (08:19):
I met him in Greece. He was this British marine.
He was traveling the world and sounds like a book.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It was a book, like I lived this fairy tale,
but it really required us to sort of both live
in a fantasy to keep that relationship going. And then
when I moved in with him, I moved over to England,
packed my bags like fully, dove into it.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
The whole thing changed.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Suddenly he was seeking any way he could to spend
time with other people and away from me, And I
was just alone in this tiny rainy seagull squawking down
in England with like no friends and just feeling like
so so riddled with anxiety because of that lack of
safety I was experiencing.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
But something you just mentioned then, I mean, you say
you're riddled with anxiety, but how do you know if
that is actually just your body telling you like, this
is a red flag, this is a situation shouldn't be in.
I think it's really quite important for people to be
able to figure out what is it that is real
and what is it that we are like creating in
ourselves and manifesting ourselves.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Yes, So at that point I didn't have the awareness
to know that this was actually kind of red flag
stuff for me. And you know, maybe a different person
with different life experiences could have perhaps made it work
with that situation, But for me, I didn't realize how
much I needed a consistent, available partner and someone who
(09:40):
was safe, someone who was able to show up for
me time and time again. It was something I tried
to pretend I was okay with and this was a
pattern that went back to childhood.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
So the more that I was able to explore.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
The origins of how I'd ended up in this situation,
why I was sort of repeating these patterns, it became
easier to then later identify, ah, this is a past thing,
it's not actually something that's occurring now, And I could
look at the situation. I mean now, so even with
my partner that I'm with now, we're in a healthy,
secure relationship. This is the stage I call expansive love,
(10:13):
where you're with a partner you can actually grow with.
Speaker 6 (10:15):
Now it's not always.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Rainbows and butterflies, like you're gonna have challenges, You're still
going to have conflict, but rather than getting lost in
Oh no, it's all over now and this is it,
and that he's going to leave me.
Speaker 6 (10:27):
I can see if that.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Thought were to occur in my mind, I can see, well,
that's actually a past thing. It's not the reality of
what he's showing up with the consistency he's bringing to.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
The table here.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
So with that awareness, you can start to see, Okay,
is this a past issue or is it a now
thing that's actually showing up. When I was in England
with that ex like that was a now problem, Like
he was really not showing up for me the way
that I need it. When we become more aware of
what we need to it's going to be clearer to
see whether.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
You're getting that or not in that relationship.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
And again we can sort of match up what's going
on in reality now as opposed to what can happen
with anxiety where we're getting like an emotional flashback to
the past. You know, it usually reminds us of oh,
hang on, this is how I felt when I was
a little child, and you know, I had a dad
who was really busy, really and consistently there. Even though
(11:20):
he was there, he was just like, you know, a
lot of dads work hard working, yaha, YadA. But he
wasn't really able to be there in an emotional way
for me either, and so that was actually quite painful.
But you know, this is common, this is normal, so
we don't really see that as a problem. But these
patterns are subtle and they show up later in our lives.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Do you think these patterns are always indicative? Like do
you think you always move into relationships that are formed
based on the experiences that you've had when you were younger.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
Yes, unless we are consciously choosing something else. And that's
the kicker. That's the thing, Like, that's why I chose
a partner unconsciously who was moving around the world and
so exciting, because hey, my dad was never like they're
consistently for me, So it wasn't like they were the
same person, but it was the same pattern of.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
He's here sometimes, oh my god, it's so great.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And the same feeling.
Speaker 5 (12:10):
Yes, yeah, that's it, And what's happening is the inner
child and us.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
We can't help it.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
We're trying to resolve the pain from the past. We're
trying to get a happy ending. It's like, if I
can find a character in my story that matches up
that same kind of energy, and this time I can
make it work, Like this time I'll get them to
love me and be here for me and have the
happy ending. That's sort of what we're going for. But
(12:34):
of course it's just not practical if we're consistently with
someone who is not showing up the way we need.
So we need to eventually see what's going on, choose differently,
Choose actually I'm going to show up as the woman
now or the grown adults seeking a partner, or in
this relationship I'm in, and I'm going to actually speak
for what I need. You know, these are things that
(12:56):
I can do now that I couldn't when I was
a child.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
You mentioned these three love phases, and I love the
idea of this base love, chaotic love, and expansive love.
Do people always move through these three phases or is
it a case where you might get stuck on one
and never make it to the end one or the
first one?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, like, is it always within this patent order
or do people experience it differently?
Speaker 6 (13:20):
Well?
Speaker 5 (13:20):
I wish life always had like a perfect happy ending
for everyone. But of course, if we don't turn inward
and like, actually look at our shit and face this stuff.
We can get caught in some of that chaotic love
and find ourselves kind of churning around and around. Some
people will go through the three stages with the same person.
That's what's fascinating too. And I've seen this evolt for
like people I know who've been in marriages where they
(13:42):
were together from seventeen and they used to like maybe
someone cheated on the other, but they like worked through
it and now they've become they've sort of grown up together.
But often we will move through this with different people.
Sounds like you might know someone who's been through that.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
No, No, I've just we were both We're just so
instinct we're both like.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
No.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I mean, it's interesting when you make these references because
I like, you know, I think about my own experiences
and I'm like, I feel like I follow this exact pattern.
The only thing is is I also know people who
have stayed in chaotic love, and it's like they never
ever either they didn't meet someone where they were conscious
of it, that it was a different thing, or they
just were always.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Going after the same pattern behavior.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But I feel like a lot of people it's like
they get to the chaotic love and they can't move
beyond it. Yeah, and then also this feeling of like
bad relationships happen to me and I don't know why,
I'm always the one who never finds the right person.
And it's this understanding of like we also attract and
make choices in the people that we date.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, you spoke just before about trying to figure out
if it's a now problem or a past problem when
you're in a relationship and trying to differentiate between anxiety
or a red flag. But are there any other tools
that you or people can use that you tell your
clients to use in addition to the is it a
now or is it a past problem to differentiate those
red flags or not, because I think a lot of
people can flate the two or get it confused. It
(15:00):
gets very blurry for people that might not have past issues,
because I know for me, I have zero past issues.
Like I had the most normal, healthy, loving, stable childhood.
My parents are still together, like I had that, but
I still were in the most horrific relationships with like
the biggest red flags that caused anxiety. If you have
had this stable relationship growing up with everyone else, all
(15:22):
these external sources, how.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Do you know if it's a red flag or if
it isn't your anxiety.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
So here's the really interesting thing. We get so confused
about what love really is. And often this can start
and will start in our childhoods and in our family
group because we'll be told we all love each other
and look at our like happy family picture together. I
had a really beautiful childhood as well, and I had
(15:49):
like you know, I would have never thought that that
would have led me to have issues or things come
up later in life.
Speaker 6 (15:56):
But the more that I explored.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
My subconscious mind, and this is something I do a
lot in my work and I talk about in the
book too, I actually realized there were these little moments
where I started to interpret and perceive things about myself
based on what was going on. So, for example, if I,
you know, was missing my dad because he wasn't he
(16:17):
was at work. You know, again, he wasn't doing that
to me. He wasn't like a drunk or doing anything
like majorly red flaggy. You know, he was just working
as a busy person trying to provide for the family.
Speaker 6 (16:30):
But that was painful in my heart, Like I missed
him as a three year old.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
As a four year old, five year old, I didn't
have the words to communicate that, and I started to
believe certain things about myself, like, you know, works more
important than me, and I'm not that important. And this
started to change then as an adult. Okay, if I'm
dating a man works more important than me, I'm not
that important and I won't speak up for what I
need as clearly as I could. So we start to
(16:57):
believe these things about love that aren't really love. Again,
I'm told, no, your dad loves you. He loves you,
he's here for you. So again, I'm dating someone inconsistent.
I'm dating someone who's like obsessed with their work and
doesn't really show up that much in a relationship. But
I'm telling myself now, but.
Speaker 6 (17:13):
He likes you, he loves you. It's okay, like, just
settle for this. This is all right.
Speaker 5 (17:18):
And so this is how this starts to develop. It
doesn't always occur from like really dramatic upbringing scenarios. It
can come in these subtle ways that it's fascinating to
go and explore that and see that about yourself. But
you'll also you know, as you as you've become more
confident in yourself and like own what you need and
what you deserve.
Speaker 6 (17:38):
That also becomes easier to communicate.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
In terms of if you're someone who recognizes that you
have patterns in the types of relationships that you get into.
Once you've realized that, how do you go about breaking
or dismantling what these patterns look like?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
That's such a good question, that is that is the
million dollar question. And for me, what it looked like
so once I was really aware, and I know so
many people do get to this point where maybe you've
done a lot of talk therapy, a lot of podcasts,
a lot of self help books, and you're like I
can see like, oh my goodness, I keep doing the problem.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
I keep doing this. Yeah, and what I started to
do because you can be quite mean to yourself.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Then you can start like beating yourself up. But I
did it again, look at me. I just can't stop
doing it.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
I also think it's like you almost start to not
trust your ability to judge someone's character or make choices.
You know, I mean, if you've had like a certain
pattern of relationships and it's resulted in the same outcome,
you do question, Okay, Well, then how do I trust
who it is that I'm choosing to be in a
relationship with.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
Yes, exactly. And these patterns are quite addictive. So I
equate this to like when you want to stop eating chocolate.
For example, if you tell yourself I can't eat chcolate
not allowed chocolate, Suddenly it becomes a taboo and you
just want it more. Right, It's the same thing with
trying to break these patterns. If we say I'm just
gonna stop going for the bad boy, you know, I'm
just gonna not go for that person. I'm so attracted
(18:58):
to what I do and recommend for my clients.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Of what I did was I started to let myself
play out the pattern.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
But instead of just doing it unconsciously, I did it
with my eyes open.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
I was watching what would happen.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
So I would feel the attraction to someone I knew
I should not feel attraction to, and I used it
as an opportunity to learn and gather information. So I
watched what would happen, I watched how I showed up.
I let it sort of unfold. Obviously, not to the
point where we're getting into like I'm two years deep
in something that's not great for me. You know, this
is just like over a couple of weeks and I
(19:34):
let myself sort of see what would happen, and eventually
what occurred was I realized this is a dead end.
It's like looking at the most delicious ice cream that
you love and yet knowing it spiked with a flavor
that you hate. You're seeing this person in front of
you who you know. Your mind is saying, oh, good
work out, this is gonna be okay, but your wiser
(19:56):
self knows this is a dead end. This person cannot
show up, as you know, the person that's stable, the
person's going to be there in the hospital room with me,
the person who's going to be a great father too,
if we had children, you know, or whatever it might
be that you want, and suddenly it clicks and you
naturally can become disinterested in following that same old pattern again.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, and I think we lie to ourselves a lot. Well,
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I know, we lie to ourselves a lot because we
fall in love with or become obsessed with the potential
of what a relationship is and the potential of someone
and what they could offer us if we hang around
or if I change them a little bit and teach
them to be like this that maybe in five years
they will be a great dad and they will stop
fucking up and they will stop cheating on me. And
we tell ourselves that to make ourselves feel better. And
(20:43):
I think that links into the anxiety you spoke about
at the start of well is it better to settle now?
Because I have so much anxiety about being alone and
never finding like that amazing person.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Does that amazing person even exist?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
And this is fresh in mind for me because I
put an Instagram post up yesterday on something that Laura
and I were talking about about how amazing it feels
that I waited and I found like a really safe love.
And I was quite shocked at the number of people
that were commenting and writing to me in my dms
that were so down and out about the dating scene
(21:17):
and about them never finding anyone. Like so many people
were being like, well, that must be nice, but like,
I'm never going to find it, Like it's never for me.
I've tried so hard and meant a shit. It made
me really upset because I thought, Wow, you must have
gone through quite a lot of really shitty situations and
this anxiety in a relationship to feel like you were
in your thirties.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And already like taking yourself out of the game.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yes, And can I just say that, you know, I
was single until thirty two and just like totally in
that place.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
You know, I really had to grieve.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You know, the bride having the big wedding and all
of these fantasies that twenty five year old me had, right,
And so I really feel that and it just is
so so painful and what we're seeing in that scenario
when people are in that state, and I've been there,
I get it. It's a learned helplessness, is what it's called.
And it's essentially when we flash back emotionally to being
(22:10):
a child again, where we truly were at some point powerless.
All of us experienced our childhoods where we didn't get
to make the choices for our lives. If you were
upset and that that parent wasn't able to be there
for you, if they were saying, oh, you're being so
difficult for me, just go to your room, and then
you're left alone to feel this pain in your heart
(22:31):
and cry, or maybe not cry because crying is not allowed,
or whatever it might be. You can't go anywhere else,
you've got no choices. So a lot of us might
have lived some version of that in our childhood. Now again,
fast forward to adulthood, we think we're still in that
powerless place again. We think that we have to get
along with these specific people in our lives, which as children,
(22:53):
you have to get along with your caregivers. Your life
depends on it. But the thing is, now, as an adult.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
You've got a choice.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
You've got a choice to choose and surround yourself with
different people, with people who do show up for you,
kind people, and often we can't see it until we
actually open our eyes to the possibility that it can
be different, that we don't have to continue choosing what
was familiar to us. Then, and that's where things really
start to shift. I think we have to see, you know,
(23:22):
beyond the there are no good men out there or
every you know, dating's always terrible. It's like, yeah, no,
there are also really good, genuine people out there, like
tons of them, just like you, that want what you
want to. If you exist and you want it, someone
else out there wants it to and they're looking for you.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
But Georgie, in that sense, then how do you rewrite
your type, because if you're someone who's driven by chemistry,
if you're driven by this, like really like I need
to be so attracted to the person to feel as
though that this relationship is going to have the same
longevity of whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Like the chaoti.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yeah, it's like, you know, we all know that you
can be attracted to things that are like really quite toxic.
That's what brings it in toxicity. But then for some
people that's like the stable, reliable kind love is not
exciting and so therefore it's not their type of person.
How does someone know if they're conflating the two, and
how do we rewire what our type is?
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yeah, I was so scared that I would have to
settle for a boring relationship to just be safe, and
that it was going.
Speaker 5 (24:22):
To be, yeah, to be taken care of. Yeah, that
it was going to be so dull. And it's really funny.
I'll tell you a quick story about a dream that
I had where I was in a car with a
guy who represented so this. In my dream, we're driving
along the highway. He represented everything that I was attracted
to and wanted, even that was completely wrong for me,
And we were driving up and then all of a sudden,
(24:44):
the road became really steep and it was like a cliff,
and we started sort of falling backwards off the road,
and the car just like lurched, and I looked at
him and I said, I love you, and he looked
at me and was just fear struck and wide eyed
and didn't say anything back, and then off we fell
back down and crashed at the bottom.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Sounds terrible, Georgie here, I mean dreams like.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
It was a scary one. Everything went black.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I looked out the window of the car, like we're
in this crash site now, and I see this calm,
meandering road up the cliff that I could have taken
that was lined with grass and flowers, and it was
much more gentle of an incline, and it really metaphorically
represented for me that I was choosing the hard road
(25:30):
in relationships in love. I was making it hard for
myself because I was trying to prove a sense of
now I'm worthy. If I can get this really tough,
challenging person to love me, then I'm worthy. And it
was like, oh, but you could also just take this path.
And what I found when I met my current partner
and I had to actually have this realization before I
(25:51):
met him, is that that kind of a relationship that's
the meandering, steady road that's actually going to work and
can have that happy ending that isn't boring when you
are growing and committed to sort of like deepening that
intimacy because they're always going to mirror something back to
you about yourself. You're constantly learning. It becomes so exciting
(26:12):
to see what can actually happen if I deepen this intimacy,
if I'm with this person for three years, five years,
ten years plus, then what happens. This can get really
interesting and fascinating from there, and that's what opens up
for us in expansive love, in chaotic love, we're kind
of there's still a part of this that isn't ready
to go on that deeper journey because we're still believing
(26:33):
in some way that that is going to be limiting
for us, that it's perhaps not even safe for us.
So unintentionally, unconsciously we're kind of sabotaging, like you said,
brit we're sabotaging that happy ending kind of relationship, the
thing that could actually work out for us, that can
really sum up sort of how we can sort of
stay stuck in some of these chaotic patterns.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
It's also interesting, like when you self analyze when we
have these commons and Laura and I we've had these
conversations for six years with specialists in all of their fields,
and I would like to think we're so well educated,
but I even find myself doing it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Now my fiance Ben.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Is just a dream like it's so safe, he's so
emotionally available. He gives me everything that I need in
a relationship. And sometimes I find myself being like boring
because we don't fight. And I'm not saying boring is
in I don't want to be in a relationship, but sometimes,
and it happens when we haven't seen each other for
a while, but sometimes I'll try and pick a fight
(27:34):
with him, and I know I'm doing it, but I'm like,
you're too nice, And I know that's when I check
myself and I have to go back to my past
relationships and I'm like, this is everything that you've ever wanted,
and this is what you need. And I find myself
going back to my super toxic relationships where you fought
all the time and you were like at each other's
throat and you thought that that's what that passionate love was.
(27:54):
And I'm like, hang on, I've got to check myself.
I'm picking a fight now because you're too good to me. Like,
that's me self sabotaged.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Yeah, but don't you think that's also a byproduct of
like it kind of only comes out for you guys
when you've spent too much time Apart said it's like
a condition of long distance.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I just think sometimes we convince ourselves.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
My point of that is, sometimes we convince ourselves that
something is a boring relationship. But the number of psychologists
and relationship therapistode we've spoken to that says a relationship
essentially should be boring to be healthy and not boring
as in you don't have fun and excitement, but boring
in terms of like how stable you feel.
Speaker 5 (28:30):
Yeah. See, from my perspective, that's interesting because now you
get to do that work of ooh, look at what
I'm doing. This is interesting. That's my old This is
like a part of me that's old. It's a pattern
where I'm trying to keep that familiar, you know, chaotic
scenario kind of going for whatever reason. Maybe it's when
things are more chaotic, you feel more worthy of being
(28:51):
loved because Okay, now I've got the challenge and I've like,
you know, secured that down. We can have that little
inner dialogue going. And if we can continue doing that,
that's what's going to take us out of chaotic love
into expansive love. In expansive love, we'll still have some
of those little bumps and challenges along the way, as
you've mentioned, but it's easier to navigate through them because
(29:13):
you have so much more awareness of yourself and the
ability to kind of like not let those parts of
you run the show anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Georgie.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Even in that, I mean, you've spoken a lot about
the four different types of fear that we can have
when we're in relationships, which kind of links into this
anxiety that we bring into it. What is it about
fear in general? And I'd love you to talk us
through those four types. But how is it that when
we show up with this we are derailing our own relationships.
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Well, we can easily think that we're you know, not
in the right situation, when in fact, you know, we're
just feeding into, buying into unrealistic expectations about love. It's
so easy to like I was the person at parties
talking to my friends about how amazing my relationship was
and how passionate it was. But I was in a
chaotic love phase. I didn't realize yet that that heaven
(30:01):
was going to turn into hell. And so easily someone
could be sitting there listening to someone telling a story
about how amazing their relationship is, we have the most
incredible sex life, all of that, and then starts to
doubt their own relationship because it's not living up to that.
And I think with social media we're getting the higher
light reel. We see those like perfect couples on Instagram
(30:23):
all over the place, and it really does give this
sense of like, do they ever have fights like this?
Speaker 6 (30:28):
Do they ever worry about this? And that? So relationships
will just bring up all those insecurities and doubts and
worries for us for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Do you think you have to have anxiety or suffer
from anxiety to experience relationship anxiety?
Speaker 5 (30:44):
No, So I think it's one of those things that
just the nature of relationships, because they do tend to
bring up our deepest insecurities. Because so much of our
survival is dependent on having really.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Healthy, stable people. By our side.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
It's again, we're tribal beings. If we got kicked out
of the tribe, we don't survive. So we have to
find a way to continue belonging and feel connected. And
so that's just a scenario that is so rife to
bring up these worries and think like what if this
doesn't last, because we don't know if a relationship is
going to last, Like, no one can tell you one
hundred percent that this thing is perfectly certain. Even if
(31:23):
you're in a secure, healthy relationship, then it starts to
manifest is but what if something happens to them? You know,
what if they get sick? What if you know, they
don't come home from work today. So it's always kind
of going on within us until we start to build
that inner security with ourselves. And that really is that
reparenting work that I was just mentioning earlier.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
When you speak about this reparenting work, like, I mean,
what is the process?
Speaker 1 (31:46):
What does that look like?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Because I think for a lot of people, you can
recognize that you have patterns, or you can recognize that
there's some similarities between relationships from childhood to relationships that
are romantic relationships. But I think it's quite a process
to get to the point where not only do you
recognize it, but you know how to do something about it.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
Essentially, if we as children went through a period of
not getting what we needed, we don't emotionally mature from
that point. Our emotional maturity is kind of stunted and
we get stuck in a space. So you know, if
for example, we really want something we want to hug
and it's not there, you know, because mum's too busy
(32:25):
and stressed right now, we learn that that's not available
to me, and so again later in life, we're still
playing out this pattern of love isn't available to me,
or what I need isn't important, is not there unless
we go back and we start to see, okay, like
there is this part of me that's still a child.
And you'll know because doesn't it feel like you're still
a little child When you get into a state of
(32:46):
anxiety or when you feel really like triggered, you're just like, no,
I don't want this, or in my mind just sol
like throwing a tantrum, or feeling really like you've gone
from one second being a super confident, capable person who
just like I can't do anything, and I don't know
if I'm doing life right. And so we've become aware
that that's what's happened, that this inner child has momentarily
(33:09):
taken control of the steering wheel of our life, and
we can see what's going on, and we can bring
out this other part of us that is always there.
And you know, like as a parent, you can be
totally overwhelmed, but also have a baby that's crying and
you can still bring out that parent in you that
needs to suit the baby right, Like, you can still
do that. So it's doing that for yourself. It's bringing
(33:32):
out this part of you that's like, you know what,
We've got this, I've got you, and I'm going to
keep you safe and I'm going to take you now
to go have a shower. I'm going to take you
now to eat some food, or I'm going to give
you the love that you needed. You didn't get that
hug when you're a child. I'm going to give you
a hug, even if it feels weird.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I mean, it's such a tricky one because I think
about it in terms of and like you said, Britt,
when you're like I grew up in a household that
you know, if you had like a conflicted childhood, it's
so easy to pinpoint those triggers. But then I also think,
like when you're a parent, when you listen to like
how your kids can be affected, you think, fuck, it
doesn't even matter if I'm a good parent, I'm still
gonna fuck my kids up there.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
The next thing I was about to say is all
I'm hearing is is how fucking hard being a parent is.
That's how every decision you make is impact your kids.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
But also I think stress.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I mean, on the flip side of that, I know
that that seems like such an obvious thing to interpret it,
like it's kind of a selfish way to interpret it
if you're a parent.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
I'm not a parent, and that's what I was thinking,
But I.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Also question it's like it's an unavoidable truth, like it's
an impossibility to give another person one hundred percent of
everything they need at every single point in time. And
actually I would almost debate that it's not healthy to
because then where's the resilience building, where are all the
other qualities that come from tending to someone's every single
backing call? You know, I think kids, I'm not saying
(34:50):
neglect your kids. But there's definitely going to be times
where they have to wait for you to emotionally regulate them,
because children also need to learn to emotionally regulate themselves.
It's such an interesting thing to unpack as we're adults.
But I don't think it necessarily always comes with blame
as to how the parents and how your parents interacted
with you.
Speaker 6 (35:08):
It's never about blame. It's just about understanding.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
And you know, even when you find yourself as a
parent hearing this and like it can bring up that
oh god, am I doing the right thing? Even that
is a part to just notice within yourself that most
of us have. That's like I want to be perfect,
you know, I want to do the perfect job. I've
got to get this right. But we can even reparent
that part.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
So that part is.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Thinking you have to get it perfect to be good enough,
and ultimately that's not true. You don't have to be
a perfect parent. So that's part of maturing. That's part
of reparenting yourself as you parent. And yes, your kids
are going to interpret things in their own way. You know,
you could go out to the clothesline for five minutes
and they might think, oh, my goodness, Mum's not coming back,
(35:50):
but you just do your best to come back when
moments happen where you are disregulated and you find yourself.
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Yelling and everyone just leave me alone.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
If that comes out, you know, it's also okay to
repair in the aftermath of that. And most of us
did not experience that in our families where someone said, hey,
my bad, like that was on me. I'm sorry, guys,
like that's not your fault. Mum's just feeling really overwhelmed
right now, but I'm going to take care of myself
and you don't have to worry, Like we didn't really
(36:21):
hear that.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Like our parents certainly weren't the generation for apologizing or accountability,
and I think that there has definitely been a shift
in terms of like the understanding that there will be
times as a parent you're dysregulated and you might say
something in a tone, or you might yell, or you
might just react in a way that you don't feel
proud of afterwards. But I definitely don't think that our
parents were conditioned to apologize for that, whereas I do
(36:46):
think we are very much.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
So I just wanted to say there's something that made
me giggle in it's just there is just to really
reiterate that there is no right or wrong way or
perfect way to parent, is that I have a friend
that I was talking to recently that is currently in
therapy because their parents were too good. And I know
this sounds ridiculous, but they were like my mum and
(37:10):
dad gave me everything I needed.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
They do everything for me.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
The way they showed love was like making sure all
my washing is constantly done as an adult, they still
go and do these things.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
For them now that they can't function because they were overfunctioning
for their kids. Well, it's like doing a disservice to
your children doing that.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
But that's my point.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
My point is there is no way to say, hey,
I'm trying to be a perfect parent because this family
did everything they could to be the perfect parent and
their kids stealing therapy because it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Was too much.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
So like I just didn't want anyone to listen at
home being like, oh my god, I have anxiety now
about me doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
There one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Is no right, completely right or wrong way. Obviously, there's
things you can do that you know are wrong, but I.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Would object there are some completely wrong ways.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's what I'm saying, but that they're the obvious things.
But in terms of the day to day of oh,
should I be doing my kids washing, should I have yelled?
Should I apologize? All of these things, there's no way
to know. So what impact that is ever going to
have on your child, either way positively or negatively. As
long as you know that you're showing up and doing
the best that you can as a parent.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Yeah, I think you do your best to make them
feel loved no matter what. But when a parent is
consistently doing everything for their child, like I've taken care
of that, or don't worry, I've done this, you don't
need to worry about that, it can actually foster a
sense of lacking self trust and not building that sense of, oh,
I can do it. It makes sense to me why
that would lead to possibly anxiety later in life, because
(38:29):
there's like a sense of I'm not actually capable because
I always needed these big people to do everything for me,
and now I'm an adult alone in the world.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
And I can't do it.
Speaker 5 (38:38):
So yes, I can sort of actually see how that
might occur. And this just again comes back to our
self awareness but part of self awareness is our imperfection too,
like we are just never going to get everything perfect,
and that's okay.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I read a really interesting article around exactly what you
just mentioned then, Georgie, and it was kind of dictating
that parents who do run to try and fix every
single feeling of discomfort that a child has not just
the disservice that they're doing to their own children in
terms of resilience building everything else, but also the only
reason why you're doing that is to fix your own
discomfort because you can't handle. So it's actually like a selfish,
(39:15):
self fulfilling prophecy. You're doing it because you can't handle
the fact that your child is in an uncomfortable state,
and so you're rubbing them at the ability to problem
solve and to fix their own issues because it's your
issue that you've made it to fix. And I found
that such an interesting take because I do think that
you know, as parents, you never want your kids to
feel any level of pain, and especially if you come
(39:38):
from a childhood or you've had that experience yourself, Like
I think sometimes we can be in the situation where
we overcorrect.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
It, yes, for sure, And I think this is why
the more we can just do that work on ourselves.
As like cliche as it sounds, we're simply role modeling that. Like,
it's not so much what you tell others to do,
whether it's your children or your friends or your family,
it's what are you doing and embodying within yourself.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
So if you're becoming more okay with your.
Speaker 5 (40:03):
Own uncomfortable emotions, you are naturally going to model that
for others who are in pain. And one of the
most healing things you can do, like if you have
a friend or a child who's crying in front of
you they're in pain, is to not actually be worried
about them in that. It's simply to just be with
them in that and say, I can see how much
this hurts. Yeah, it's okay, to just feel this, And
(40:24):
that is the most oh like relieving thing to just
be seen in your pain and not have someone rush
you through it or say, oh, but come on, don't
cry like it's all okay.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
And let's just feel gratitude right now. If you could
just be in it, it passes and then we've got
this beautiful relief on the other side.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
In terms of the anxiety and relationships, and the people
you've spoken to and helped over the years, what seems
to be like the number one stand out issue that
they're experiencing. And by that I mean, is it more
self doubt I'm not good enough? Is it more issues
worried about being alone? Or is it more issues about
trust and like your partner chieving and constantly.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Wanting to check their phone.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Is there something that's a real standout for the people
that you've spoken to over the years.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
That's such a good question because it really is like
an amalgamation of possibly even just those three things you said,
it's feeling. Well, if we can sum up everything, it
always comes back to I'm not enough in some way.
So if I feel alone, for example, going through this
emotional distress or just alone in life, it's because I
don't feel capable. I don't feel enough to be with
(41:32):
this experience. I don't feel like I can handle it.
If we don't trust ourselves. Again, I'm not enough to
have the knowing, the wisdom, the capability to navigate life
decisions in an intelligent or safe way. So again, that's
why I would bring it all down to, is the
root of everything is I'm not enough.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
We all have it.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Georgie, thank you so much for coming and being a
part of the podcast. I know that every time we
have conversations around like pattern behaviors in relationships, there's a
lot of self awareness that comes with it. I think
there's a lot of people who have these moments where
they're like, Okay, that's exactly what I do. But it's
always the question around how do you fix that and
how do you break it? Which I think a lot
of people are left with, like you see the pattern
and then you just don't really know what's your way out.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
And also is something normal or not? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Absolutely, And in terms of anxiety and relationships, I think
it's something that every single person goes through in different ways.
Maybe it presents and manifests differently, but it all definitely
is stuff that if you've been in the dating world
and you've been single, like every single person experiences this.
So thank you so much for all your wisdom, but
also for something that is like truly universal that we
(42:43):
all experience.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
My pleasure, it's so you know, meaningful to be able
to share it with everyone.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
So hope it's helpful.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Well.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Georgie's new book Master your relationship, anxiety and her social
media is all going to be linked in our show notes.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
So are you're going to send that one to Oprah
as well?
Speaker 6 (42:57):
I will pass it on to Oprah.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Las ourbook on two.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Thanks joking, Thanks so much, Georgie, Thank you guys, appreciate it.
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