April 15, 2024 • 37 mins
Hey Lifers,
Today's episode was particularly difficult to record. The whole nation is grieving the loss of 6 people in our community after a horrific act of violence on Saturday afternoon at Bondi Junction shopping centre.
Within our team, we have personal connections to some of the victims and we want to send our most sincere love and support to the families and loved ones who have had one of the most horrific events imaginable take place.
Today we speak about the way that this incident was reported in the media, and the lessons that we can learn from it. In a time where we are so demanding of instant information, it seems as though respect, permission, grace and importantly the need for the information to be true has been lost.
And, on a lighter note we also have a chat about how to know whether you should invite your partner to an event/hang out.
In this conversation we spoke about an episode that we recorded about askers and guessers. You can listen to that here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose
lands were never seated. We pay our respects to their
elders past and present.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Gadigal Land. Hi, guys, and welcome back to
another episode of Life. I'm Cut, I'm Laura, and I'm Keisha.
And look today's episode. I know, we know you guys
(00:30):
come here for the levity and for the lulls, and
sometimes you come here for more deep and introspective conversations,
which happened from time to time, believe it or not, but.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Today's episode feels really really different.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And I'm sure you guys are so aware of what
happened in Bondai over the weekend. And if you aren't,
or maybe you're an overseas listener, so the news hasn't
reached you yet. On Saturday, there was a mass murder
that happened in Bondai Junction. A foty year old man
walked into Bondai Junction shopping center and went on, I
mean what's only been described as a stabbing spree, and
(01:05):
as a result, six people were murdered and eleven people
are still in hospital. Some of those people are in
critical care, and this is such a different We know
horrible things happen often in the world, and this feels
very different for multiple reasons. One is because of the
proximity we live in Bondai. We are so close to
(01:27):
Bone Junction from the physical location of where we are,
but also because of the proximity of friendships and yeah,
producer Keisha is friends with ash who is the mother
who was murdered, and so we've wanted to have a
discussion today around what happened, but also around the media
(01:49):
and the rush to report on information and whether that
reporting is even factual or not. I know it's something
that we see happen and it plays out really often
when there are biggities that happen in the world. But
I guess because of that proximity that I mentioned, this
feels very different.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of you have read about
Ashley Good. She was thirty eight years old and she
was the mother that died protecting her beautiful nine month
old baby, Harriet. We became friends a couple of years ago.
One of my closest childhood friends of over two decades
is Ash's best friend, and everything that's being reported about
(02:26):
her is completely true. She was human sunshine. She was
just the most positive, joy filled, beautiful, beautiful human being,
and her proudest achievement and the thing that brought her
the most joy was being a mum. You know, we
spoke behind close doors about whether. Firstly we were even
going to record today. I didn't know whether it was distasteful,
(02:48):
and then I also felt like it was disrespectful not
too because I think the people who died on the
weekend they deserve it. They deserve to have the stories
of who they were told, and they deserve to have
the respect of the families who are grieving and the
loved ones who are grieving at the moment. And I
know that collectively across the country, everyone's heart broke over
(03:08):
the weekend. I know that every single person is feeling
a level of devastation that that's quite truly incomprehensible, and
a lot of us are trying to make sense of it,
and I think it's something that will never make sense,
And to be completely honest, over the weekend, there were
a couple of things that happened that I was really
really disappointed in terms of media and I'm particularly speaking
(03:32):
about the way that this was reported throughout the media.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, I think that thing that stood out to me
the most, and I think for anyone who's been following
the story, ash has become the poster child of this
horrific event. It's her face, it is Harriet's face that
has become the most widely circulated. Their story is the
story that people are most I guess in tested it
(04:00):
in some ways, and that's a horrible thing to say,
but the media has pushed that story out because the
devastation of a mother being murdered whilst holding their baby
that gets more clicks than the rest of the people
who were also murdered on that day. And I just
want to read out the names of everybody. The six
victims were ish Wen Chang twenty seven, Pickria Dashia fifty five,
(04:23):
Jade Young forty seven, Dawn Singleton twenty five, foraz to
Hear thirty years old, and Ashley Good thirty eight. I
guess the big thing I wanted to talk about off
the back of this in Kisha, I know, I know
that this is so personal for you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I also just really quickly want to say, like I
by no means whatsoever I want to sender myself in
this tragedy, Like I want all of the sympathy to
be given to the people who I think are deserving.
On that saying right now, that is Usha's beautiful partner
and her family and her friends, you know, and the
family and friends of the people who have tragically died,
you know. Like it's something that I feel is very important.
(05:03):
And yeah, I definitely don't want to get on here
and kind of take that light, if that makes sense,
But I do think it's important that we talk about
the way that this was reported, because something that caused
a lot of distress for Ash's beautiful family was that,
without permission, photos of her and her daughter Harriet circulated
(05:24):
pretty vastly cross media outlets. And there's something that we
need to learn here. There's something that we need to
learn about these tragedies and when these circumstances happen. And
I acknowledge the fact that this probably happens every single
time a person is killed in this country, and unfortunately
that means it happens a lot more to women than
(05:44):
what happens to men. Collectively, I know that we live
in a society where we have this desire to have
information immediately. We want to have faces and pictures immediately.
We want to have information at our fingertips, and the
immediacy of it, I think, is where we can get
into some really murky territory.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, it's almost changed, like the way in which people
access information has changed, and I think it to me
was like a real moment where I understood people now
find out about their family members dying. They find out
about their friends dying not by receiving a knock on
the door from police, but by finding out from the
media or even by social media, because so many news
(06:24):
articles repurpose the click baity headlines on social media and
it's the photo that's been pulled from LinkedIn, or it's
the photo that's been pulled from someone's Instagram, and that's
the notification of a death of a loved one. But
I think more and more there's this almost media rush
to be the first person to report on something. And
something that really stood out was in this media frenzy
(06:44):
to report on what was happening and to be the
fastest and the first, which the only reason why media
do this is to get the most engagement on the
articles that they're producing Channel seven's official seven News Australia
YouTube account. It's got over one point six million subscribers.
It reported by Monique Wright and Michael Usher underneath a
YouTube video with the wrong attacker's name, So they said
(07:07):
that Benjamin Cohen was the murderer, incorrectly reporting who had
actually murdered. It was the first time that a name
had been released, and this person's name, Benjamin Cohen, circulated
for over an hour online, all across Twitter, all across
x as it's now called, which just shows that like
it didn't really matter about the fact checking and it
was human error, as they've come out and said, but
I mean a human had to physically type in the
(07:29):
wrong name in order to have that scoop.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
First.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I think the thing that we also saw, which has
been for me, I think, really quite disturbing, is how
many people have centered the tragedy around themselves in terms
of their own proximity to body junction. I think so
many of us would have seen people posting saying, you know,
that's the center I visit, or I was only there yesterday,
or you know, I go there with my daughter, and
(07:53):
I understand the sentiment of that conversation I understand the
fear that a lot of people felt, because I felt
it myself. But I think it's very different to mention
that to someone who's in your friendship group or to
someone who's sitting on the couch next to you. You know,
oh my god, I was only there yesterday. It's very
different to post that online when a very real person
actually did die, a very real person actually was attacked,
because I think it takes the conversation away from what happened,
(08:15):
and it makes the conversation around yourself. Now, this isn't
an isolated case. Any great tragedy. We think about Samantha
Murphy who was murdered when she went out for a run,
and the amount of people who reflect that back to saying, well,
I run in the mornings, and that could have happened
to me. I don't know if we need to have
this personal self reflection of putting ourselves in the situation
of something in order to have empathy for it, especially,
(08:37):
and I think it's okay when we do it on
a personal level, when we do it with our friends,
but I do think it's problematic when media outlets start
doing it, and when media representatives start doing it as well.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think something else that was quite disturbing over the
weekend was the immediacy of which videos were shared on
x or Twitter. You know, there were videos of victims
of this horrendous attack, and they were posted so quickly
that there wasn't even time to identify the victims and
(09:07):
let their families know, you know, like if that was
your loved one, you would have recognized the outfit that
they were wearing. Look, I don't I mean, I don't
want to point the finger at any one person. I
think that this type of thing is the type of
thing that we need to look at as a collective society.
And I also don't want to point the finger at
anyone who you know, posted a photo of Ash with
her daughter as the photo that they led the Instagram
(09:31):
post with, or you know that we're giving updates on
the situation. I know that it's a product of what
you've become used to having to provide people. And I
don't know how we put the brakes on this, because
now we live in a society that is so desperate
for immediate information it almost doesn't matter whether it's true
or not, And it almost doesn't matter whether it's been
(09:52):
given the grace or the approval of the people who
were directly affected by this.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, and in saying that, ash this family came out
and they had expressly asked for photos of Harriet to
not be shared, and at the same time, media outlets
across Australia was still sharing the photo of Ashen Harriet
as like the headline image that was supporting the article.
It goes to show that, like the incentive of many
media companies, and I would say all media companies to
(10:18):
be honest, it's not about what's best for the victims
and the victims' families. It's about what gets the most clicks.
And there's this incredible quote from Denzel Washington which I'll
put in here, But it's all about how with media
and a lot of reporting, it doesn't matter if you're
right straight away. It matters to be first because the
new cycle is a business and as much is it
on one hand is to keep us up to date
(10:39):
and to keep us informed on what's happening in the world.
It also is to be the first to the pit
with that story. But I'd just love to put that
little quip of the Denzel Washington quote in here because
it really this is from two years ago, but it
has never been more true.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you
do read it, you're misinformed. You that's a great question.
What is the long term effect of too much information?
One of the effects is the need to be first,
not even to be true anymore. So whatever responsibility you
all have could be to tell the truth, not just
(11:15):
to be first, but to tell the truth. We live
in a society now where it's just first who cares
get it out there. We don't care who it hurts,
we don't care who we destroy it. We don't care
if it's true. Just say it, sell it.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
The Guardian has already published an article that is related
to what you know we're talking about here, Laurie. The
title of it is false claim started spreading about the
Bondo Junction stabbing attack as soon as it happened. I
think we've been really desensitized to the sensitivities that we
should provide people in these circumstances. And because of that desensitization,
(11:48):
I also think that people have taken it upon themselves
to kind of look. I don't know if they do this,
because it's easier to put the pieces of a puzzle
together because you want to make sense of it, and
because there can be some type of closure that may
come from trying to make sense of something that doesn't
make sense. You know, like the incident on Saturday will
never make sense. There will never be a reason that
(12:09):
I think is like, oh, that's why that happened. It's
just so completely fucked And so I understand like the
human nature to want to make sense of this and say,
why did this happen and how did this happen? And
we want information on this person. But so much of
what was reported on Saturday afternoon was incorrect. It was misinformation.
(12:31):
People's commentary and their opinions and their initial assumptions were
being reported on as though they were facts. I mean
what you're mentioning, Keisha.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
The Guardian article that has come out, it talks about
the islamophobic and anti immigration comments that were circulating as
soon as it happened. It was almost as though as
soon as the photo of the murderer was released it
gave people license to start making up their own minds
as to what might be the motivation. And so much
of that commentary was religious based, which I think really
(13:00):
contributes and shows the level of racism that exists within
our society. It's now been reported on that the motivator
was that he walked into the shopping center with the
intention of attacking women, and that they were the main target.
There's been more reports on it from people who have
investigated the footage. He walked straight past men, he avoided
attacking men, and the only man who was murdered was
(13:22):
a security guard who got involved to try and stop him.
But everyone else and all the other victims were female.
As it stands now, we're only in the middle of
April and twenty eight women in Australia have now died
at the hands of male violence. It's one point eight
women a week. But my question is when are we
going to in this country see violence against women as
(13:43):
an ideology, as that being enough for us to stop
down and say what the hell is happening That a
man would walk into a shopping center and target women
in this way. It's so deeply horrific. But I think
that there's a greater problem around around violence and around
the day in which women face that needs to be discussed.
There is one part of this Guardian article which I
(14:05):
think is worth mentioning because it supports what we're talking about,
this idea of the fight for being first with information,
and it says each tragedy that attracts global attention is
now an opportunity for social media accounts to attract followers
and revenue off the back of inflammatory claims or to
fit the incident into a predetermined narrative before the facts
have emerged. And this weekend was no different. There will
(14:27):
be a time that.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
We can examine this and go, Okay, what did we
as a society do right here and what did we
do wrong? We are all mourning. You know, whether you
knew these people personally or not, I know that the
whole country right now is mourning.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Everyone's devastated, and I think it's so important before we
do wrap on this conversation. Like at Knowledging Amy Scott,
the new South Wales police officer who completely unassisted by
a team, she was in this vicinity of the area,
she heard what was happening and she ran in by herself.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean it wasn't by herself.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
She was with three other people who were just civilians,
but there was just such a level of bravery to
go and to put everybody else's life above your own
and to go into that situation. And for anyone who's
not across the story, like I said, if you're listening
to this from overseas, but the murderer was shot dead
in the shopping center and then there's footage of Amy
there doing CPR and she's just such an incredible hero,
(15:21):
I think for the New South Wales police who do
often receive such a bad rap. It was such an
incredible moment of bravery from her.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
For me today, I felt the desire to share that
I'm so incredibly proud of our beautiful friend Ash for
what she did put her gorgeous daughter. And it's being
told that her last efforts while she was alive was
to protect her beautiful daughter and put her in the
arms of two wonderful brothers that aided in keeping her alive.
(15:53):
And I know that for a lot of people, especially,
I think for mums, knowing that if they were in
the same situation, would have done the exact same thing.
You know, there were so many acts of bravery and
so many acts of kindness towards other people, of helping
other people, and the humanity of it.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, yeah, I think in such an act of disgusting inhumanity,
the other side of it is that there's this collectiveness
and this sense of wanting to help a stranger.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And there were plenty, plenty, plenty of reports of that.
I know that there was a lifeguard from Bondai who
went in provided first aid. There was bollard Man who
was Ukrainian, and there was another Frenchman who contributed to
less people being hurt. I want this to be about
the wonderful people who helped in this situation and the
innocent people who went to the shops on Saturday afternoon
(16:41):
and very tragically have had their lives taken from them.
And I want to continue on with this episode because
at times like this, you know, we do need to
find the joy in life. I guess I just wanted
to provide a little bit of context as to why
today was a little bit harder and also switching gears
into talking about silly things that sex and relationship. Yeah,
(17:04):
like it just it feels a bit jarring, and I
just wanted to acknowledge that, Like I don't really have
an articulate way to say, sorry, this is going to
feel weird, and this is going to feel like a
big step to the left. But you know, I think
that that's reflective of these situations. These things all coexist
at the same time, and you're expected to turn up
and live your normal life and you can be going
(17:25):
through a really hard process. However that looks for you.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think it's also reflective of like the podcast that
we create, and I think it's part of the for me,
the privilege, the joy that we get to have incredibly
challenging conversations that are so charged with emotions and feelings
about things that we feel deeply about. And then we
also get to have conversations about things that are silly
(17:49):
and light and you know that are here to make
you guys laugh and to make you feel like, you know,
life isn't as heavy as what sometimes it is.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And so with that in mind.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
As well, we really did have the very just decision
around how to structure this episode, and we wanted to
talk about what happened in Bondi, but we also still
wanted to provide you guys with an episode.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So yeah, let's get into the rest of it, Laura.
A couple of days ago, a TikTok went very viral
by a creator called brand Underscore Flicks. So he's created
this scale of how to know whether it's appropriate to
ask can you bring your partner? Or can you bring
someone along with you?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I also like the way that he's described He's like
the classic tale of can my boyfriend come? Which is
a problem that we have all faced, you know, and
the idea of like do you have the self awareness
of what is an appropriate situation to ask? Because I
think the problem is is that if you've ever been
a situation where someone who you care about, who you're
supposed to be doing something with, whether it's a dinner
(18:45):
or whether it's to go to your wedding, has said, oh,
can I bring my boyfriend? Which one might assume and
when I say boyfriend, I mean partner, But one might
assume that it's usually when it's in a newer relationship
that asking that question should come with a level of
self awareness.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
However, some people seem to lack that. See. I also
think that this happens in long term relationships, like long
long term relationships where there's almost this like natural assumption
that you're supposed to that you're too far. Yeah, like
an invite to one is actually an invite two two,
But that's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I don't know if I told you this, and maybe
this makes me an asshole. So at our wedding, we
were trying to bring the numbers down, so we didn't
want to have any more than eighty people at the wedding.
The wedding was pretty small and it was pretty intimate,
and for Matt and I that was achievable because we
have really small families, like I don't have any cousins
on my dad's side, Matt doesn't have any contact with
his dad, So for us, our families are little, so
(19:40):
a lot of that number was made up by friends.
But then as you go down the tier of the
list of friends, it which feels weird to even like, well,
but it's true. True. What I mean is that you
start with your family, then you go to like your
best friends, and then you go to friends who maybe
you haven't seen in a while, who you question whether
in five years time you'll still be friends with them
or not, like are they even going to be there?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So there was one friend in particular who was like
I had not seen for so so long, but at
the same time, I was like, they're a really big friend.
From my past, from my childhood, so I'll invite them,
but I'd never met their husband, who they hadn't been
with for very long. But they were married and I
didn't get invited to their wedding. So I was like, well,
I'm not going to invite the husband because I don't
(20:23):
want to have someone I don't know at the wedding.
I don't want to be meeting them at my wedding.
So I invited her. But then I think that she
was quite ticked off that the husband wasn't invited, and
she did message and said, oh, do I have a
plus one? And I was like, no, it's not, it's
not on No, sorry wait, sorry she weren't you weren't
invited to her wedding. You and Matt were not invited. No,
(20:44):
we were not invited, And she had the audacity to
ask you to be fair, though it wasn't away wedding,
which then makes it more tricky. She would have had
to have come away, and I get I get it. Look,
if you don't ask, you don't get in life. But
at the same time, I was like the audacity. No, oh,
I'm so sorry. I would love to meet him, but
not at my wedding.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So the guy brand he broke it down into the
two axis of his determining factors. We're intimacy and formality.
The TikTok is a minute forty two seconds, So I'll
play a little bit of it for you right now.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
My opinion on if it's okay for you to bring
your significant other to our plans depends on two things.
How formal are the plans. Am I inviting you to
my wedding or am I just asking you if you
want to get drinks after work? And how intimate are
these plans my inviting you to a big group activity
or am I just asking you to hang out one
on one? Let's start over here.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
If I ask you to do.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Something very casual with me, just one on one, grab
dinner next week, go to brunch, take a walk, and
you look me in the eyes and say, okay, can
my boyfriend come. You're fucking weird for that. You can't
go out for drinks with me for two hours without
bringing your fucking significant other. Sorry, that's codependency to me.
Just because you're dating him doesn't mean I have to
Now if I'm inviting you to go get drinks with
me on Saturday and there's a big group of people going,
(21:54):
and you're like, hey, can I bring my partner? It's
a reluctant yes over here. If I invite you to
something pretty formal, it's a giant birthday party for myself
or a wedding, a ton of my closest friends are
going to be there. I personally am inviting your significant other.
I am texting it, and I'm saying, Hey, I'm having
a birthday party next week, Please bring your boyfriend. You
don't even have to ask. Big formal events, I think
(22:14):
you should always offer. Now, this one's a little trickier.
It's a formal plan, but it's more intimate. Maybe it's
a birthday dinner where there's only eight seats at the table,
or maybe it's a housewarming or a dinner party. This
I'm just going to say, read the room. If it's
my birthday dinner with just friends and even my significant
other isn't going, why would you ask if you could
bring yours? That's weird. If it's a housewarming party where
I invited ten of my closest friends, just ask me first.
(22:36):
I'm probably going to say yes.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Think of it as in like a sliding scale a
tea access.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So basically, at the top you've got large group, at
the bottom you've got intimate, small group, and then on
the other axis you've got casual hangout and you've got
very formal event. So basically you've got a plot out
where it sits on this scale, which we're going to
post it on social media so you can screenshot it
and you can kind of use this to your own devices.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I came up with a couple of against me. She's like,
this does not float. I just don't think it's the
main things that I consider when I question whether I'm
going to ask can I invite my boyfriend or not?
The three things I like to consider are dynamic logistics
and reading the room. Bear with me, people don't always
(23:18):
have the ability to read rooms. Well that yeah, a
self awareness is awareness. So dynamic. What I mean by
that is does it change the dynamic? So is it
you and I going for brunch Laura and I go, hey,
can I bring my boyfriend? That changes the dynamic a
lot because it's gone from it being you and I
to being you, me and my partner, And it can
(23:40):
change the type of conversation that you're changing everything. You know,
if you're planning an event with or you're just going
to hang out with your three best girlfriends and you
invite your boyfriend along, the type of conversation is going
to be very different amongst those friends, right, So does
the dynamic change is my main question. The second one
question I think is important is logistics. So this can
(24:03):
be space, seating, or very importantly, does it cost the
person you're asking money by inviting your partner. And that's
where I think the weddings come into it, because when
you ask for a plus one, it's not just space
and seating, it's also the fact that the couple are
expected to pay for that person to attend. True, And
I think the third thing to consider is reading the room,
(24:25):
and this comes down to things like how long have
you been with your partner, how well do your friends
know your partner? Is this the first time that you're
wanting to introduce them, and your friends going through a
breakup not appropriate to bring the boyfriend along, what's going
on in their lives at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I also think though, that is like a place of consideration,
isn't it like where do you want to introduce if
you've started dating someone because some people can get really
caught up in the excitement of a new relationship and
then their new partners become almost like a part of them,
like they go everywhere and they do everything together. And
we spoke about this recently on the episode we did
around how times when people get into relationships they become
(25:02):
kind of crappy friends because they just morph into the relationship.
It becomes their identity more than anything. But also I
think it's a consideration as to where you want to
introduce your new partner to your friends. Do you do
it as a casual hangout at a pub, do you
do it over a formal dinner? Is it an event
or is it something that you're like, oh, like, I'll
just bring this person along to which I guess like
(25:25):
that is a place to kind of navigate, depending on
how close the group of friends is that you're introducing
this new person too.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I think if you follow the rules of dynamic logistics
and reading the room, you can do no wrong. But
I also think that, like you said, the last one
of reading the room does require self awareness, and I
think when you're talking about people who become, you know,
a bit too attached with their partner, and they kind
of expect that everything they go to, their partner's going
(25:52):
to come along. I think inherently those people lack a
little bit of self awareness.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Do you know? This reminds me though, if you guys
haven't listened to their so we did on Askers and Guesses,
have a like, chuck that into the Google search of
podcasts or wherever you're listening to this and go and
find it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Put we'll link it in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
We did a really great episode, had a really interesting
chat around this philosophy of askers and guesses that there's
two types of people in life. There's people who ask,
and maybe that asking it seems outrageous. It seems as though,
cause you think about it, think about a time where
someone has asked you to do something for them, They've
asked something of you, they've asked if they could invite
(26:29):
their partner to your wedding, and you thought, how dare
they like the audacity for them to ask me that?
And the thing that we got to you on that
conversation is this two types of people, people who see
no harm in asking, because it's the opportunity for that
person to say, oh, actually no, that doesn't suit me.
But some people are so paralyzed by offending someone or
(26:52):
by disappointing someone that we feel uncomfortable by being asked something,
so we try and make something happen even though it
makes us feel awkward or yuck.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
So I guess in this instance, SA love that you're
saying we because if you and I we're guesses and
Brittany's an asker, and so we're very different people.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So when we had this conversation, it was really interesting
because BRIT's perspective on it was like someone's asking a question.
They're not telling you that you have to do something.
Why don't you just say no? And then the endpoint
that we got to in that was like, actually, it's
our issue. It's our inability to set good boundaries and
say no to things that make us uncomfortable. So I
think if you're in a situation where someone who's your
(27:30):
friend has asked to bring their partner to something that
makes you feel uncomfortable, you think it's just not time
appropriate or venue appropriate or cost appropriate.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think it's about self awareness on the flip side,
and being able to exercise your boundaries and say, oh,
do you know what, I'm really looking forward to meeting them,
or i'd love them to come, but unfortunately, here's the
reasons why they can't. But some of us really struggle
with that, and so we would just sit through an
awkward situation because we don't want to offend the other person.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I think it's because if you are a guesser, you
make the assumption that if someone's asking you a question,
they've already assumed that the answer is going to be yes. Yeah,
because you wouldn't ask a question unless you thought the
answer was going to be yes. Because we guess, we
guess what people expect of us. I didn't know about
that concept, and to me, it really actually made things
a lot more clear, and it made it easier for
(28:17):
me to go, Ah, they're not asking me that because
they assume I'm going to say yes. They just go
what's the harm in asking? They think that if I
don't want to do it, or I'm unable to for
any reason, I'll just say no. But like, I don't
know if it's anxiety. That's not how I live my
life up until that point. And I've learned a lot
from it, and I realized that people who were askers don't.
(28:41):
I guess they don't ask the question with the intention
of putting the pressure on a guesser.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But the problem is is a lot of us, a
lot of people are people pleasers, and a lot of
us who have like some sort of codependency issues like
that puts that type of person or that type of
personality trait in a real situation where they don't want
to disappoint someone. So what you can often find is
that you can end up doing things or saying yes
to things that you really don't want to do, and
then you have this deep resentment that you're doing something
(29:09):
that you never wanted to do, that you had every
opportunity to say no to, but you said yes because
you don't like saying no to people. So I guess
when you unpack it in that way, you're like, well,
who's the real culprit here, Like, who's done the wrong thing?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't think it's the person that asked. I think
it's the person who.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Lacks pull boundary setting, really, And for me, that conversation
was such a good mental sort of check point for
me where I went, oh, I'm gonna just get a
little bit braver with saying no to stuff that makes
me uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm going to get a little bit better with my
boundary setting. So I want to apply that to this situation.
And let's say that someone's in a position where their
friend comes to them and says, can my boyfriend come
to dinner on Tuesday night? I know that we're going
out with three of the girls.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Casual hang but intimate. So this is described as you
are weird. You're weird for asking. That is a weird
time to ask.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
But how do you respond because them this? Like in
that scenario, my natural reaction would be like, no, why
the fuck are you asking? Because I'm a guesser, you know,
Like I would be like, why are you even asking this?
But also how do I say no to this so
that the sanctity of our intimate hangout is protected? But
(30:24):
also I'm not offending either them or their boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I think you just have to say, like I was
really looking forward to hanging out with you one on one,
or I was really hoping that we could just spend
some time together. There's some things I wanted to whatever
it is like, Also, it doesn't just come down to
that one person or that one situation. You might be
in a group of people, and I know that this
is a situation for me and for Matt. We have
a group of friends and I'm really close to some
(30:48):
of their partners, and I barely know some of the
other ones, right, And so when we then have like
group things at our house, purely from a numbers perspective,
there's some people's partners who I want to invite because
I'm like, I know Matt will get along with them.
I know he'll then have a couple of guys he
can brow down with we're all friends. But then I
have to like cherry pick the partners that I'm okay
with inviting because there's a few other partners who I
(31:09):
just don't know that well, and that seems really unfair.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But also I'm like, well, otherwise then we've got a
cater for everyone, and then that's a really big group.
It's a battlefield everyone, it's a minefield. I just feel
like there's so much room for awkwardness in this situation,
which as a guesser, makes me very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I would love to know if you guys have been
in a situation where someone has asked something completely outrageous
like that they could bring their partner to. Whether it
be a wedding, maybe it was about misfah christening, I
don't know, but I would love to know what is
the most outrageous thing that your friend has asked if
they could bring their partner to, because I think that
there has to be a few doozies for this. All right,
it's time for accidently unfiltered. I was in the process
(31:45):
of selling my car and was waiting for the potential
buyer to come over and check it out. While I
was waiting, I thought that I would watch some porn
and have some self love time. Why would you do
it when you're on such a time limit, when you
know someone's coming. Why would you say, like, I'm just
gonna bat this one out. Maybe she doesn't k needed
long she knows a body, true, but also like it's
(32:05):
just a real bait and switch of moods. Okay, Anyway,
I got the message that the person wanting to see
the car was outside, so I stopped what I was
doing and went out to say hello, hope you.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Wash your hands.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Everything was going fine until they turned on my car
mm or the bluetooth in my car automatically connects to
whatever I was listening to last.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
What was she listening to everyone? Which was deep moaning
and satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So blasting through the speaker came the noises of the
porno I had just been watching. Needless to say, they
did not buy my car.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's so uncomfortable. I'm surprised I didn't ask like disinfectant
for okay, but also like you just shook hands with
this person.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You're like, oh, really, this has happened so often, this
idea of like watching a porno and getting picked up
in bluetooth, Like, come on, guys, we need to be better,
We need to be smarter.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
If have we taught you nothing on this podcast? I
admired the agility. You've got more agility than what I
have to be able to switch gears that quickly, Like
good for you, Oh I don't have the energy shout.
Do you think she should have financially compensated them for
and been like, oh, I'll knock two hundred dollars off
because you're like, sorry, it does that. Sometimes the car's
(33:23):
got a bug.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Every so often the car owns if it's really happy
to see someone, what.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Is the price?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
We got another accenting unfeeled sent through that I thought
it was funny. It says the other day, I was
driving listening to Life Uncut. Thank you represent appreciate that
the episode was labeled blow job etiquette. I know this one.
It was a nice can cut. I didn't realize, but
I was speeding and I got pulled over by the COT.
I paused my podcast but didn't even think about the
(33:51):
name of the podcast being front and center on my screen.
As the COT was talking to me, he looked into
my car and said, in interesting podcast, and then gave
me a caution, you're welcome. I didn't know what to
say back, and I just smiled and said yeah, really awkwardly.
I felt so awkward and I couldn't still laugh.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's so good, okay, if it makes you feel any better.
So you guys know that we've just started doing all
of our episodes up on YouTube, right which my dad.
So my dad, he can't listen to podcasts. He doesn't
understand what a podcast is, right, He's got no clue.
He always calls it a pod book, which he might
might be doing that just to insult me. I don't know,
(34:32):
but anyway, we did that Diana and iad podcast last
week and the interview it was amazing and I knew
it would be an interview that my dad would actually enjoy.
And because we've got it now on YouTube, I was like,
oh my god, I'm just going to send my dad
the YouTube link.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is going to be so proud.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So I sent him the YouTube link without I didn't
think it through. I didn't think it through. I didn't
send it to him and said, don't scroll, dad, I
just send it to him. And now he's going through
and he's watching all of the videos. So my dad
far that Terry Byrne is now watching blow Job Etiquette
from his daughter who for five and a half years,
(35:06):
I have managed to do this podcast without any of
my parents ever paying any attention to the shit I
talk about ever, and now I've just put myself under
a microscope.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I also uncomfortable for you. We need to think about
how we name the episodes from here.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Daddy Vibes was one the other week as well, Daddy Vies. Anyway, guys,
look that is it from us. We're not gonna do
a suck and sweet today. I think it is very
evident what everybody's suck is across Australia. So we didn't
think that it was appropriate or timely to do that
and to have that reflection this week. But we will
(35:39):
be back to our normal programming next week. And also
we have an amazing interview for you guys tomorrow and
ask gun cuts are coming. So we really appreciate you guys,
I mean, if you've made it this far in the episode,
giving us the grace and the space to be able
to talk about what we did at the beginning of
the EPP, to talk about the attacks in Bondi, but
also to be able to then bring you an episode
that had some levity to it in some ways as well.
(36:01):
And you guys, if you haven't yet, it is potentially
for its last week in the African Jungle, So have
you been watching?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
One person will be going home every night, so it's
going to be a very very quick It's going to
be a very quick turnaround now and I'm pretty sure
the last episode is either this Sunday or very early
next week. So please get your votes in ten play
ten votes a day for our girl Britt and that
will hopefully seek her through to the final.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Trials, which we'll have one hundred thousand dollars going to
a very worthy charity and we're really hoping that not
only is brit crowned the Queen of the Jungle, but
that one hundred thousand dollars could go to Rise Up,
which is a domestic violence charity. It essentially mostly helps
women and children who are escaping domestic violence situations and
puts them into homes that are lovely. Yes say yeah,
(36:49):
yeah so And guys, that's it for us, you know
the drill. Tell you Mum, tell you dad, tell you,
don't tell your friends, and share the love because we love.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
The pa a
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Kaabaaa baa ba
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose
lands were never seated. We pay our respects to their
elders past and present.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Gadigal Land. Hi, guys, and welcome back to
another episode of Life. I'm Cut, I'm Laura, and I'm Keisha.
And look today's episode. I know, we know you guys
(00:30):
come here for the levity and for the lulls, and
sometimes you come here for more deep and introspective conversations,
which happened from time to time, believe it or not, but.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Today's episode feels really really different.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
And I'm sure you guys are so aware of what
happened in Bondai over the weekend. And if you aren't,
or maybe you're an overseas listener, so the news hasn't
reached you yet. On Saturday, there was a mass murder
that happened in Bondai Junction. A foty year old man
walked into Bondai Junction shopping center and went on, I
mean what's only been described as a stabbing spree, and
(01:05):
as a result, six people were murdered and eleven people
are still in hospital. Some of those people are in
critical care, and this is such a different We know
horrible things happen often in the world, and this feels
very different for multiple reasons. One is because of the
proximity we live in Bondai. We are so close to
(01:27):
Bone Junction from the physical location of where we are,
but also because of the proximity of friendships and yeah,
producer Keisha is friends with ash who is the mother
who was murdered, and so we've wanted to have a
discussion today around what happened, but also around the media
(01:49):
and the rush to report on information and whether that
reporting is even factual or not. I know it's something
that we see happen and it plays out really often
when there are biggities that happen in the world. But
I guess because of that proximity that I mentioned, this
feels very different.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of you have read about
Ashley Good. She was thirty eight years old and she
was the mother that died protecting her beautiful nine month
old baby, Harriet. We became friends a couple of years ago.
One of my closest childhood friends of over two decades
is Ash's best friend, and everything that's being reported about
(02:26):
her is completely true. She was human sunshine. She was
just the most positive, joy filled, beautiful, beautiful human being,
and her proudest achievement and the thing that brought her
the most joy was being a mum. You know, we
spoke behind close doors about whether. Firstly we were even
going to record today. I didn't know whether it was distasteful,
(02:48):
and then I also felt like it was disrespectful not
too because I think the people who died on the
weekend they deserve it. They deserve to have the stories
of who they were told, and they deserve to have
the respect of the families who are grieving and the
loved ones who are grieving at the moment. And I
know that collectively across the country, everyone's heart broke over
(03:08):
the weekend. I know that every single person is feeling
a level of devastation that that's quite truly incomprehensible, and
a lot of us are trying to make sense of it,
and I think it's something that will never make sense,
And to be completely honest, over the weekend, there were
a couple of things that happened that I was really
really disappointed in terms of media and I'm particularly speaking
(03:32):
about the way that this was reported throughout the media.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, I think that thing that stood out to me
the most, and I think for anyone who's been following
the story, ash has become the poster child of this
horrific event. It's her face, it is Harriet's face that
has become the most widely circulated. Their story is the
story that people are most I guess in tested it
(04:00):
in some ways, and that's a horrible thing to say,
but the media has pushed that story out because the
devastation of a mother being murdered whilst holding their baby
that gets more clicks than the rest of the people
who were also murdered on that day. And I just
want to read out the names of everybody. The six
victims were ish Wen Chang twenty seven, Pickria Dashia fifty five,
(04:23):
Jade Young forty seven, Dawn Singleton twenty five, foraz to
Hear thirty years old, and Ashley Good thirty eight. I
guess the big thing I wanted to talk about off
the back of this in Kisha, I know, I know
that this is so personal for you.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I also just really quickly want to say, like I
by no means whatsoever I want to sender myself in
this tragedy, Like I want all of the sympathy to
be given to the people who I think are deserving.
On that saying right now, that is Usha's beautiful partner
and her family and her friends, you know, and the
family and friends of the people who have tragically died,
you know. Like it's something that I feel is very important.
(05:03):
And yeah, I definitely don't want to get on here
and kind of take that light, if that makes sense,
But I do think it's important that we talk about
the way that this was reported, because something that caused
a lot of distress for Ash's beautiful family was that,
without permission, photos of her and her daughter Harriet circulated
(05:24):
pretty vastly cross media outlets. And there's something that we
need to learn here. There's something that we need to
learn about these tragedies and when these circumstances happen. And
I acknowledge the fact that this probably happens every single
time a person is killed in this country, and unfortunately
that means it happens a lot more to women than
(05:44):
what happens to men. Collectively, I know that we live
in a society where we have this desire to have
information immediately. We want to have faces and pictures immediately.
We want to have information at our fingertips, and the
immediacy of it, I think, is where we can get
into some really murky territory.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, it's almost changed, like the way in which people
access information has changed, and I think it to me
was like a real moment where I understood people now
find out about their family members dying. They find out
about their friends dying not by receiving a knock on
the door from police, but by finding out from the
media or even by social media, because so many news
(06:24):
articles repurpose the click baity headlines on social media and
it's the photo that's been pulled from LinkedIn, or it's
the photo that's been pulled from someone's Instagram, and that's
the notification of a death of a loved one. But
I think more and more there's this almost media rush
to be the first person to report on something. And
something that really stood out was in this media frenzy
(06:44):
to report on what was happening and to be the
fastest and the first, which the only reason why media
do this is to get the most engagement on the
articles that they're producing Channel seven's official seven News Australia
YouTube account. It's got over one point six million subscribers.
It reported by Monique Wright and Michael Usher underneath a
YouTube video with the wrong attacker's name, So they said
(07:07):
that Benjamin Cohen was the murderer, incorrectly reporting who had
actually murdered. It was the first time that a name
had been released, and this person's name, Benjamin Cohen, circulated
for over an hour online, all across Twitter, all across
x as it's now called, which just shows that like
it didn't really matter about the fact checking and it
was human error, as they've come out and said, but
I mean a human had to physically type in the
(07:29):
wrong name in order to have that scoop.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
First.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I think the thing that we also saw, which has
been for me, I think, really quite disturbing, is how
many people have centered the tragedy around themselves in terms
of their own proximity to body junction. I think so
many of us would have seen people posting saying, you know,
that's the center I visit, or I was only there yesterday,
or you know, I go there with my daughter, and
(07:53):
I understand the sentiment of that conversation I understand the
fear that a lot of people felt, because I felt
it myself. But I think it's very different to mention
that to someone who's in your friendship group or to
someone who's sitting on the couch next to you. You know,
oh my god, I was only there yesterday. It's very
different to post that online when a very real person
actually did die, a very real person actually was attacked,
because I think it takes the conversation away from what happened,
(08:15):
and it makes the conversation around yourself. Now, this isn't
an isolated case. Any great tragedy. We think about Samantha
Murphy who was murdered when she went out for a run,
and the amount of people who reflect that back to saying, well,
I run in the mornings, and that could have happened
to me. I don't know if we need to have
this personal self reflection of putting ourselves in the situation
of something in order to have empathy for it, especially,
(08:37):
and I think it's okay when we do it on
a personal level, when we do it with our friends,
but I do think it's problematic when media outlets start
doing it, and when media representatives start doing it as well.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I think something else that was quite disturbing over the
weekend was the immediacy of which videos were shared on
x or Twitter. You know, there were videos of victims
of this horrendous attack, and they were posted so quickly
that there wasn't even time to identify the victims and
(09:07):
let their families know, you know, like if that was
your loved one, you would have recognized the outfit that
they were wearing. Look, I don't I mean, I don't
want to point the finger at any one person. I
think that this type of thing is the type of
thing that we need to look at as a collective society.
And I also don't want to point the finger at
anyone who you know, posted a photo of Ash with
her daughter as the photo that they led the Instagram
(09:31):
post with, or you know that we're giving updates on
the situation. I know that it's a product of what
you've become used to having to provide people. And I
don't know how we put the brakes on this, because
now we live in a society that is so desperate
for immediate information it almost doesn't matter whether it's true
or not, And it almost doesn't matter whether it's been
(09:52):
given the grace or the approval of the people who
were directly affected by this.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, and in saying that, ash this family came out
and they had expressly asked for photos of Harriet to
not be shared, and at the same time, media outlets
across Australia was still sharing the photo of Ashen Harriet
as like the headline image that was supporting the article.
It goes to show that, like the incentive of many
media companies, and I would say all media companies to
(10:18):
be honest, it's not about what's best for the victims
and the victims' families. It's about what gets the most clicks.
And there's this incredible quote from Denzel Washington which I'll
put in here, But it's all about how with media
and a lot of reporting, it doesn't matter if you're
right straight away. It matters to be first because the
new cycle is a business and as much is it
on one hand is to keep us up to date
(10:39):
and to keep us informed on what's happening in the world.
It also is to be the first to the pit
with that story. But I'd just love to put that
little quip of the Denzel Washington quote in here because
it really this is from two years ago, but it
has never been more true.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you
do read it, you're misinformed. You that's a great question.
What is the long term effect of too much information?
One of the effects is the need to be first,
not even to be true anymore. So whatever responsibility you
all have could be to tell the truth, not just
(11:15):
to be first, but to tell the truth. We live
in a society now where it's just first who cares
get it out there. We don't care who it hurts,
we don't care who we destroy it. We don't care
if it's true. Just say it, sell it.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
The Guardian has already published an article that is related
to what you know we're talking about here, Laurie. The
title of it is false claim started spreading about the
Bondo Junction stabbing attack as soon as it happened. I
think we've been really desensitized to the sensitivities that we
should provide people in these circumstances. And because of that desensitization,
(11:48):
I also think that people have taken it upon themselves
to kind of look. I don't know if they do this,
because it's easier to put the pieces of a puzzle
together because you want to make sense of it, and
because there can be some type of closure that may
come from trying to make sense of something that doesn't
make sense. You know, like the incident on Saturday will
never make sense. There will never be a reason that
(12:09):
I think is like, oh, that's why that happened. It's
just so completely fucked And so I understand like the
human nature to want to make sense of this and say,
why did this happen and how did this happen? And
we want information on this person. But so much of
what was reported on Saturday afternoon was incorrect. It was misinformation.
(12:31):
People's commentary and their opinions and their initial assumptions were
being reported on as though they were facts. I mean
what you're mentioning, Keisha.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
The Guardian article that has come out, it talks about
the islamophobic and anti immigration comments that were circulating as
soon as it happened. It was almost as though as
soon as the photo of the murderer was released it
gave people license to start making up their own minds
as to what might be the motivation. And so much
of that commentary was religious based, which I think really
(13:00):
contributes and shows the level of racism that exists within
our society. It's now been reported on that the motivator
was that he walked into the shopping center with the
intention of attacking women, and that they were the main target.
There's been more reports on it from people who have
investigated the footage. He walked straight past men, he avoided
attacking men, and the only man who was murdered was
(13:22):
a security guard who got involved to try and stop him.
But everyone else and all the other victims were female.
As it stands now, we're only in the middle of
April and twenty eight women in Australia have now died
at the hands of male violence. It's one point eight
women a week. But my question is when are we
going to in this country see violence against women as
(13:43):
an ideology, as that being enough for us to stop
down and say what the hell is happening That a
man would walk into a shopping center and target women
in this way. It's so deeply horrific. But I think
that there's a greater problem around around violence and around
the day in which women face that needs to be discussed.
There is one part of this Guardian article which I
(14:05):
think is worth mentioning because it supports what we're talking about,
this idea of the fight for being first with information,
and it says each tragedy that attracts global attention is
now an opportunity for social media accounts to attract followers
and revenue off the back of inflammatory claims or to
fit the incident into a predetermined narrative before the facts
have emerged. And this weekend was no different. There will
(14:27):
be a time that.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
We can examine this and go, Okay, what did we
as a society do right here and what did we
do wrong? We are all mourning. You know, whether you
knew these people personally or not, I know that the
whole country right now is mourning.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Everyone's devastated, and I think it's so important before we
do wrap on this conversation. Like at Knowledging Amy Scott,
the new South Wales police officer who completely unassisted by
a team, she was in this vicinity of the area,
she heard what was happening and she ran in by herself.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
I mean it wasn't by herself.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
She was with three other people who were just civilians,
but there was just such a level of bravery to
go and to put everybody else's life above your own
and to go into that situation. And for anyone who's
not across the story, like I said, if you're listening
to this from overseas, but the murderer was shot dead
in the shopping center and then there's footage of Amy
there doing CPR and she's just such an incredible hero,
(15:21):
I think for the New South Wales police who do
often receive such a bad rap. It was such an
incredible moment of bravery from her.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
For me today, I felt the desire to share that
I'm so incredibly proud of our beautiful friend Ash for
what she did put her gorgeous daughter. And it's being
told that her last efforts while she was alive was
to protect her beautiful daughter and put her in the
arms of two wonderful brothers that aided in keeping her alive.
(15:53):
And I know that for a lot of people, especially,
I think for mums, knowing that if they were in
the same situation, would have done the exact same thing.
You know, there were so many acts of bravery and
so many acts of kindness towards other people, of helping
other people, and the humanity of it.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Yeah, yeah, I think in such an act of disgusting inhumanity,
the other side of it is that there's this collectiveness
and this sense of wanting to help a stranger.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And there were plenty, plenty, plenty of reports of that.
I know that there was a lifeguard from Bondai who
went in provided first aid. There was bollard Man who
was Ukrainian, and there was another Frenchman who contributed to
less people being hurt. I want this to be about
the wonderful people who helped in this situation and the
innocent people who went to the shops on Saturday afternoon
(16:41):
and very tragically have had their lives taken from them.
And I want to continue on with this episode because
at times like this, you know, we do need to
find the joy in life. I guess I just wanted
to provide a little bit of context as to why
today was a little bit harder and also switching gears
into talking about silly things that sex and relationship. Yeah,
(17:04):
like it just it feels a bit jarring, and I
just wanted to acknowledge that, Like I don't really have
an articulate way to say, sorry, this is going to
feel weird, and this is going to feel like a
big step to the left. But you know, I think
that that's reflective of these situations. These things all coexist
at the same time, and you're expected to turn up
and live your normal life and you can be going
(17:25):
through a really hard process. However that looks for you.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think it's also reflective of like the podcast that
we create, and I think it's part of the for me,
the privilege, the joy that we get to have incredibly
challenging conversations that are so charged with emotions and feelings
about things that we feel deeply about. And then we
also get to have conversations about things that are silly
(17:49):
and light and you know that are here to make
you guys laugh and to make you feel like, you know,
life isn't as heavy as what sometimes it is.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And so with that in mind.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
As well, we really did have the very just decision
around how to structure this episode, and we wanted to
talk about what happened in Bondi, but we also still
wanted to provide you guys with an episode.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So yeah, let's get into the rest of it, Laura.
A couple of days ago, a TikTok went very viral
by a creator called brand Underscore Flicks. So he's created
this scale of how to know whether it's appropriate to
ask can you bring your partner? Or can you bring
someone along with you?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I also like the way that he's described He's like
the classic tale of can my boyfriend come? Which is
a problem that we have all faced, you know, and
the idea of like do you have the self awareness
of what is an appropriate situation to ask? Because I
think the problem is is that if you've ever been
a situation where someone who you care about, who you're
supposed to be doing something with, whether it's a dinner
(18:45):
or whether it's to go to your wedding, has said, oh,
can I bring my boyfriend? Which one might assume and
when I say boyfriend, I mean partner, But one might
assume that it's usually when it's in a newer relationship
that asking that question should come with a level of
self awareness.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
However, some people seem to lack that. See. I also
think that this happens in long term relationships, like long
long term relationships where there's almost this like natural assumption
that you're supposed to that you're too far. Yeah, like
an invite to one is actually an invite two two,
But that's not always the case.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I don't know if I told you this, and maybe
this makes me an asshole. So at our wedding, we
were trying to bring the numbers down, so we didn't
want to have any more than eighty people at the wedding.
The wedding was pretty small and it was pretty intimate,
and for Matt and I that was achievable because we
have really small families, like I don't have any cousins
on my dad's side, Matt doesn't have any contact with
his dad, So for us, our families are little, so
(19:40):
a lot of that number was made up by friends.
But then as you go down the tier of the
list of friends, it which feels weird to even like, well,
but it's true. True. What I mean is that you
start with your family, then you go to like your
best friends, and then you go to friends who maybe
you haven't seen in a while, who you question whether
in five years time you'll still be friends with them
or not, like are they even going to be there?
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Right?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So there was one friend in particular who was like
I had not seen for so so long, but at
the same time, I was like, they're a really big friend.
From my past, from my childhood, so I'll invite them,
but I'd never met their husband, who they hadn't been
with for very long. But they were married and I
didn't get invited to their wedding. So I was like, well,
I'm not going to invite the husband because I don't
(20:23):
want to have someone I don't know at the wedding.
I don't want to be meeting them at my wedding.
So I invited her. But then I think that she
was quite ticked off that the husband wasn't invited, and
she did message and said, oh, do I have a
plus one? And I was like, no, it's not, it's
not on No, sorry wait, sorry she weren't you weren't
invited to her wedding. You and Matt were not invited. No,
(20:44):
we were not invited, And she had the audacity to
ask you to be fair, though it wasn't away wedding,
which then makes it more tricky. She would have had
to have come away, and I get I get it. Look,
if you don't ask, you don't get in life. But
at the same time, I was like the audacity. No, oh,
I'm so sorry. I would love to meet him, but
not at my wedding.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
So the guy brand he broke it down into the
two axis of his determining factors. We're intimacy and formality.
The TikTok is a minute forty two seconds, So I'll
play a little bit of it for you right now.
Speaker 5 (21:16):
My opinion on if it's okay for you to bring
your significant other to our plans depends on two things.
How formal are the plans. Am I inviting you to
my wedding or am I just asking you if you
want to get drinks after work? And how intimate are
these plans my inviting you to a big group activity
or am I just asking you to hang out one
on one? Let's start over here.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
If I ask you to do.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Something very casual with me, just one on one, grab
dinner next week, go to brunch, take a walk, and
you look me in the eyes and say, okay, can
my boyfriend come. You're fucking weird for that. You can't
go out for drinks with me for two hours without
bringing your fucking significant other. Sorry, that's codependency to me.
Just because you're dating him doesn't mean I have to
Now if I'm inviting you to go get drinks with
me on Saturday and there's a big group of people going,
(21:54):
and you're like, hey, can I bring my partner? It's
a reluctant yes over here. If I invite you to
something pretty formal, it's a giant birthday party for myself
or a wedding, a ton of my closest friends are
going to be there. I personally am inviting your significant other.
I am texting it, and I'm saying, Hey, I'm having
a birthday party next week, Please bring your boyfriend. You
don't even have to ask. Big formal events, I think
(22:14):
you should always offer. Now, this one's a little trickier.
It's a formal plan, but it's more intimate. Maybe it's
a birthday dinner where there's only eight seats at the table,
or maybe it's a housewarming or a dinner party. This
I'm just going to say, read the room. If it's
my birthday dinner with just friends and even my significant
other isn't going, why would you ask if you could
bring yours? That's weird. If it's a housewarming party where
I invited ten of my closest friends, just ask me first.
(22:36):
I'm probably going to say yes.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Think of it as in like a sliding scale a
tea access.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So basically, at the top you've got large group, at
the bottom you've got intimate, small group, and then on
the other axis you've got casual hangout and you've got
very formal event. So basically you've got a plot out
where it sits on this scale, which we're going to
post it on social media so you can screenshot it
and you can kind of use this to your own devices.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I came up with a couple of against me. She's like,
this does not float. I just don't think it's the
main things that I consider when I question whether I'm
going to ask can I invite my boyfriend or not?
The three things I like to consider are dynamic logistics
and reading the room. Bear with me, people don't always
(23:18):
have the ability to read rooms. Well that yeah, a
self awareness is awareness. So dynamic. What I mean by
that is does it change the dynamic? So is it
you and I going for brunch Laura and I go, hey,
can I bring my boyfriend? That changes the dynamic a
lot because it's gone from it being you and I
to being you, me and my partner, And it can
(23:40):
change the type of conversation that you're changing everything. You know,
if you're planning an event with or you're just going
to hang out with your three best girlfriends and you
invite your boyfriend along, the type of conversation is going
to be very different amongst those friends, right, So does
the dynamic change is my main question. The second one
question I think is important is logistics. So this can
(24:03):
be space, seating, or very importantly, does it cost the
person you're asking money by inviting your partner. And that's
where I think the weddings come into it, because when
you ask for a plus one, it's not just space
and seating, it's also the fact that the couple are
expected to pay for that person to attend. True, And
I think the third thing to consider is reading the room,
(24:25):
and this comes down to things like how long have
you been with your partner, how well do your friends
know your partner? Is this the first time that you're
wanting to introduce them, and your friends going through a
breakup not appropriate to bring the boyfriend along, what's going
on in their lives at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I also think though, that is like a place of consideration,
isn't it like where do you want to introduce if
you've started dating someone because some people can get really
caught up in the excitement of a new relationship and
then their new partners become almost like a part of them,
like they go everywhere and they do everything together. And
we spoke about this recently on the episode we did
around how times when people get into relationships they become
(25:02):
kind of crappy friends because they just morph into the relationship.
It becomes their identity more than anything. But also I
think it's a consideration as to where you want to
introduce your new partner to your friends. Do you do
it as a casual hangout at a pub, do you
do it over a formal dinner? Is it an event
or is it something that you're like, oh, like, I'll
just bring this person along to which I guess like
(25:25):
that is a place to kind of navigate, depending on
how close the group of friends is that you're introducing
this new person too.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
I think if you follow the rules of dynamic logistics
and reading the room, you can do no wrong. But
I also think that, like you said, the last one
of reading the room does require self awareness, and I
think when you're talking about people who become, you know,
a bit too attached with their partner, and they kind
of expect that everything they go to, their partner's going
(25:52):
to come along. I think inherently those people lack a
little bit of self awareness.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Do you know? This reminds me though, if you guys
haven't listened to their so we did on Askers and Guesses,
have a like, chuck that into the Google search of
podcasts or wherever you're listening to this and go and
find it.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Put we'll link it in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
We did a really great episode, had a really interesting
chat around this philosophy of askers and guesses that there's
two types of people in life. There's people who ask,
and maybe that asking it seems outrageous. It seems as though,
cause you think about it, think about a time where
someone has asked you to do something for them, They've
asked something of you, they've asked if they could invite
(26:29):
their partner to your wedding, and you thought, how dare
they like the audacity for them to ask me that?
And the thing that we got to you on that
conversation is this two types of people, people who see
no harm in asking, because it's the opportunity for that
person to say, oh, actually no, that doesn't suit me.
But some people are so paralyzed by offending someone or
(26:52):
by disappointing someone that we feel uncomfortable by being asked something,
so we try and make something happen even though it
makes us feel awkward or yuck.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
So I guess in this instance, SA love that you're
saying we because if you and I we're guesses and
Brittany's an asker, and so we're very different people.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So when we had this conversation, it was really interesting
because BRIT's perspective on it was like someone's asking a question.
They're not telling you that you have to do something.
Why don't you just say no? And then the endpoint
that we got to in that was like, actually, it's
our issue. It's our inability to set good boundaries and
say no to things that make us uncomfortable. So I
think if you're in a situation where someone who's your
(27:30):
friend has asked to bring their partner to something that
makes you feel uncomfortable, you think it's just not time
appropriate or venue appropriate or cost appropriate.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Whatever that looks like.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think it's about self awareness on the flip side,
and being able to exercise your boundaries and say, oh,
do you know what, I'm really looking forward to meeting them,
or i'd love them to come, but unfortunately, here's the
reasons why they can't. But some of us really struggle
with that, and so we would just sit through an
awkward situation because we don't want to offend the other person.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I think it's because if you are a guesser, you
make the assumption that if someone's asking you a question,
they've already assumed that the answer is going to be yes. Yeah,
because you wouldn't ask a question unless you thought the
answer was going to be yes. Because we guess, we
guess what people expect of us. I didn't know about
that concept, and to me, it really actually made things
a lot more clear, and it made it easier for
(28:17):
me to go, Ah, they're not asking me that because
they assume I'm going to say yes. They just go
what's the harm in asking? They think that if I
don't want to do it, or I'm unable to for
any reason, I'll just say no. But like, I don't
know if it's anxiety. That's not how I live my
life up until that point. And I've learned a lot
from it, and I realized that people who were askers don't.
(28:41):
I guess they don't ask the question with the intention
of putting the pressure on a guesser.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But the problem is is a lot of us, a
lot of people are people pleasers, and a lot of
us who have like some sort of codependency issues like
that puts that type of person or that type of
personality trait in a real situation where they don't want
to disappoint someone. So what you can often find is
that you can end up doing things or saying yes
to things that you really don't want to do, and
then you have this deep resentment that you're doing something
(29:09):
that you never wanted to do, that you had every
opportunity to say no to, but you said yes because
you don't like saying no to people. So I guess
when you unpack it in that way, you're like, well,
who's the real culprit here, Like, who's done the wrong thing?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't think it's the person that asked. I think
it's the person who.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Lacks pull boundary setting, really, And for me, that conversation
was such a good mental sort of check point for
me where I went, oh, I'm gonna just get a
little bit braver with saying no to stuff that makes
me uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm going to get a little bit better with my
boundary setting. So I want to apply that to this situation.
And let's say that someone's in a position where their
friend comes to them and says, can my boyfriend come
to dinner on Tuesday night? I know that we're going
out with three of the girls.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Casual hang but intimate. So this is described as you
are weird. You're weird for asking. That is a weird
time to ask.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
But how do you respond because them this? Like in
that scenario, my natural reaction would be like, no, why
the fuck are you asking? Because I'm a guesser, you know,
Like I would be like, why are you even asking this?
But also how do I say no to this so
that the sanctity of our intimate hangout is protected? But
(30:24):
also I'm not offending either them or their boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I think you just have to say, like I was
really looking forward to hanging out with you one on one,
or I was really hoping that we could just spend
some time together. There's some things I wanted to whatever
it is like, Also, it doesn't just come down to
that one person or that one situation. You might be
in a group of people, and I know that this
is a situation for me and for Matt. We have
a group of friends and I'm really close to some
(30:48):
of their partners, and I barely know some of the
other ones, right, And so when we then have like
group things at our house, purely from a numbers perspective,
there's some people's partners who I want to invite because
I'm like, I know Matt will get along with them.
I know he'll then have a couple of guys he
can brow down with we're all friends. But then I
have to like cherry pick the partners that I'm okay
with inviting because there's a few other partners who I
(31:09):
just don't know that well, and that seems really unfair.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
But also I'm like, well, otherwise then we've got a
cater for everyone, and then that's a really big group.
It's a battlefield everyone, it's a minefield. I just feel
like there's so much room for awkwardness in this situation,
which as a guesser, makes me very uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I would love to know if you guys have been
in a situation where someone has asked something completely outrageous
like that they could bring their partner to. Whether it
be a wedding, maybe it was about misfah christening, I
don't know, but I would love to know what is
the most outrageous thing that your friend has asked if
they could bring their partner to, because I think that
there has to be a few doozies for this. All right,
it's time for accidently unfiltered. I was in the process
(31:45):
of selling my car and was waiting for the potential
buyer to come over and check it out. While I
was waiting, I thought that I would watch some porn
and have some self love time. Why would you do
it when you're on such a time limit, when you
know someone's coming. Why would you say, like, I'm just
gonna bat this one out. Maybe she doesn't k needed
long she knows a body, true, but also like it's
(32:05):
just a real bait and switch of moods. Okay, Anyway,
I got the message that the person wanting to see
the car was outside, so I stopped what I was
doing and went out to say hello, hope you.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Wash your hands.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Everything was going fine until they turned on my car
mm or the bluetooth in my car automatically connects to
whatever I was listening to last.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
What was she listening to everyone? Which was deep moaning
and satisfaction.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So blasting through the speaker came the noises of the
porno I had just been watching. Needless to say, they
did not buy my car.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
That's so uncomfortable. I'm surprised I didn't ask like disinfectant
for okay, but also like you just shook hands with
this person.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You're like, oh, really, this has happened so often, this
idea of like watching a porno and getting picked up
in bluetooth, Like, come on, guys, we need to be better,
We need to be smarter.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
If have we taught you nothing on this podcast? I
admired the agility. You've got more agility than what I
have to be able to switch gears that quickly, Like
good for you, Oh I don't have the energy shout.
Do you think she should have financially compensated them for
and been like, oh, I'll knock two hundred dollars off
because you're like, sorry, it does that. Sometimes the car's
(33:23):
got a bug.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Every so often the car owns if it's really happy
to see someone, what.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Is the price?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
We got another accenting unfeeled sent through that I thought
it was funny. It says the other day, I was
driving listening to Life Uncut. Thank you represent appreciate that
the episode was labeled blow job etiquette. I know this one.
It was a nice can cut. I didn't realize, but
I was speeding and I got pulled over by the COT.
I paused my podcast but didn't even think about the
(33:51):
name of the podcast being front and center on my screen.
As the COT was talking to me, he looked into
my car and said, in interesting podcast, and then gave
me a caution, you're welcome. I didn't know what to
say back, and I just smiled and said yeah, really awkwardly.
I felt so awkward and I couldn't still laugh.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
That's so good, okay, if it makes you feel any better.
So you guys know that we've just started doing all
of our episodes up on YouTube, right which my dad.
So my dad, he can't listen to podcasts. He doesn't
understand what a podcast is, right, He's got no clue.
He always calls it a pod book, which he might
might be doing that just to insult me. I don't know,
(34:32):
but anyway, we did that Diana and iad podcast last
week and the interview it was amazing and I knew
it would be an interview that my dad would actually enjoy.
And because we've got it now on YouTube, I was like,
oh my god, I'm just going to send my dad
the YouTube link.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Is going to be so proud.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So I sent him the YouTube link without I didn't
think it through. I didn't think it through. I didn't
send it to him and said, don't scroll, dad, I
just send it to him. And now he's going through
and he's watching all of the videos. So my dad
far that Terry Byrne is now watching blow Job Etiquette
from his daughter who for five and a half years,
(35:06):
I have managed to do this podcast without any of
my parents ever paying any attention to the shit I
talk about ever, and now I've just put myself under
a microscope.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I also uncomfortable for you. We need to think about
how we name the episodes from here.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Daddy Vibes was one the other week as well, Daddy Vies. Anyway, guys,
look that is it from us. We're not gonna do
a suck and sweet today. I think it is very
evident what everybody's suck is across Australia. So we didn't
think that it was appropriate or timely to do that
and to have that reflection this week. But we will
(35:39):
be back to our normal programming next week. And also
we have an amazing interview for you guys tomorrow and
ask gun cuts are coming. So we really appreciate you guys,
I mean, if you've made it this far in the episode,
giving us the grace and the space to be able
to talk about what we did at the beginning of
the EPP, to talk about the attacks in Bondi, but
also to be able to then bring you an episode
that had some levity to it in some ways as well.
(36:01):
And you guys, if you haven't yet, it is potentially
for its last week in the African Jungle, So have
you been watching?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Now?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
One person will be going home every night, so it's
going to be a very very quick It's going to
be a very quick turnaround now and I'm pretty sure
the last episode is either this Sunday or very early
next week. So please get your votes in ten play
ten votes a day for our girl Britt and that
will hopefully seek her through to the final.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Trials, which we'll have one hundred thousand dollars going to
a very worthy charity and we're really hoping that not
only is brit crowned the Queen of the Jungle, but
that one hundred thousand dollars could go to Rise Up,
which is a domestic violence charity. It essentially mostly helps
women and children who are escaping domestic violence situations and
puts them into homes that are lovely. Yes say yeah,
(36:49):
yeah so And guys, that's it for us, you know
the drill. Tell you Mum, tell you dad, tell you,
don't tell your friends, and share the love because we love.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
The pa a
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Kaabaaa baa ba
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