When it comes to politics, it can be particularly tricky to navigate political conversations with the people you love — especially when they sit on the opposite side of the fence. We have a very important federal election coming up on May 3 so we’re expecting these conversations to increase more and more in the next few weeks.
Today we wanted to dive into how pop culture has become increasingly political, why the divide between left and right feels so extreme, and perhaps most importantly, how do we actually vote for what matters to us, beyond what’s trending on Instagram or TikTok?
Today we’re joined by Zara Seidler — co-founder of The Daily Aus. The Daily Aus are particularly tapped into what young people are asking and what they care about in the political landscape. Zara has experience in the political world and also has a degree in political science.
We cover:
- How politics has become embedded in pop culture
- Why there is a push towards independents
- What the upcoming election actually means for us
- Cost of living is the number 1 thing people care about now
- The issue with receiving political info from just one source
- Algorithms, outrage culture and how it’s impacted politics
- How to have conversations with people who have different politics
- Tools to help you find what you align with
You can find the resources Zara shared here:
You can find more from Zara at The Daily Aus Instagram
And Zara's Instagram
You can watch us on Youtube
Find us on Instagram
Join us on tiktok
Or join the Facebook Discussion Group
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now, as you all, i'm sure are very aware, there
is an important federal election coming up on May the third,
and you might have also noticed that when it comes
to politics, it can be particularly tricky to navigate these
conversations with the people that you love in your life,
especially when they sit on opposite sides of the fence. Today,
we are joined by Zara Seidler, who is the co
founder of The Daily Oz. But Zara has experience in
(00:37):
the political world and also has a degree in political science,
International and Global studies, majoring in government.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
If we want to get very specific.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
With things, very specific, very specific, okay, we wanted to
dive into how pop culture has become increasingly political, especially
I mean we saw it first in the US and
that has really migrated into how we are navigating this
election currently, why the divide in the left and the
right feels very extreme at the moment, and perhaps most importantly,
how do we have these conversations with people that we
(01:07):
love who have alternate views to us.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Zarah, Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, girls,
time coming. I know, I'm really stoked to be here.
Just a small topic to talk about in my first podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Yeah, like yea, but where does your I mean we
were just speaking off Mike before this started, just about
how and where you started. You studied overseas in the US,
you studied in Georgetown. Where did your obsession come for politics?
Was it always something like through high school? Because it's
such I mean, it's so niche what you have studied,
(01:38):
So talk to us about how you ended up in
this industry.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I have always been interested in the news. I was
just like, kind of that really nosy. I think it's
actually just nosiness. I want to know everything all the time,
and so my family always tells me that when I
was younger, I would come downstairs in my family home
and just announce news to them. I wanted to be
the one that told them what had happened. I distinctly
remember when Michael Jackson died. I came down I was like, guys,
(02:02):
you won't believe it. He's dead, and everyone's like, good morning, Zarah,
it's a pleasure to see you this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It's so funny you say that I was the same child.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
My favorite thing to do every morning as a teenager,
I was read the news and coming to my family
at breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I think, like, that's why you're a communicator now.
I do think that there is a really clear tie
between people who like to consume media and those who
go into it. And so, yeah, I studied at Georgetown
on exchange. It was when Donald Trump was first inaugurated
into the presidency, and it was probably the first time
that I.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Saw politics really all around me.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
You know, you got into a cab and cab driver
was talking about it, You went to a cafe and
the barister was talking about it, and then I came
home and that wasn't the case. No one was talking
about politics. And I just really really cared. I really
wanted my friends to care. I wanted to talk about
it with them. So Sam, my best friend and now
co founder, and I we started the Daily OS honestly
(02:58):
just as a side hustle to be to talk to
our friends about the news.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
It was selfish.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I was like, I want them to care as much
as I do. We'll start this thing, and a couple
of years later, here we are. But also I think
it wasn't just around like get your friends to care.
It was also the accessibility of it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Bringing the news to social media in a way that
was impartial was something that was ahead of its time
because there was news on social media and people were
consuming it that way. But so much of it was
just so deeply trenched in biases by people who didn't
necessarily have the skill set to be giving.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The news out.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, I mean so much of it goes to the
fact that my friends at that time did care. They
just didn't know where to get their information. Yea, and
the legacy media. It wasn't speaking their language. It wasn't
speaking directly to them, It wasn't using language they understood,
it wasn't explaining things.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Why do you think that is though?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Why do you think the disparity is so large between
the way that it's spoken about and the obsession and
interest in the US than it is here in Australia.
Because even when I think growing up wasn't something my
family spoke a lot about, wasn't something you read on
the news, was something anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Was talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It was just like, oh, this is who's in charge now.
No one the number of people that would go and
vote that had no idea who they were voting for,
what they were voting for. If you asked them when
they walked out, that's say, oh, I just picked a number,
Why do you reckon? We just never had that obsession.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I think we have mandatory voting here and the US doesn't,
and I think that makes a really big difference. In
the US, you have to convince people to care enough
to go and vote. Here, you just have to convince
people to pay attention as like a starting point, and
so I think that there is a smaller leap that
has to be done, and so it isn't spoken about
as much. And also because we have mandatory voting, our
(04:37):
parties tend to be more around the center because it's
not on that fringe as much.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I think it really depends on the household you grew
up in, because I feel like my household was pretty
conversation around politics. But growing up I really understood the
divide between labor and liberal and that's because my grandfather
and my paper he worked in the coal mines, he
worked in steel mines, so we were a labor voting family.
And I think going back forty years ago, there was
(05:01):
such a division between what the party stood for and
now it seems as though things are far more moved
towards the middle. And I guess like another big question
around it. Do you think that young people are showing
more of an interest or do you think it's just
more accessible now with social media?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I think I'll take your second question first. I
do think that we are just hearing about it more
and it's more accessible now. I don't think that young
people caring about politics is new. You know, if you
look back decades, you see young people out in the
streets protesting wars and protesting governments.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's not new.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's interesting because I was talking to my mother in
law about this and talking about how there's just this
fierce interest on social media and she was like, Laura,
I was protesting for women's rights when I was at
university in the seventies. She's like, it makes me annoy
that you think it's different now, And I was like,
I really don't, but I think we forget what our
past generations did as university students.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know, it's not new.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Young people have always been highly highly political. I think
it's just amplified now because of social media and we
can see it and people can post something and that
looks like they are taking a political stand on something.
Whereas before you had to physically go out, go and protest,
go call your local representative, whatever it was. It's a
lot more accessible now to I guess, engage with politics
(06:14):
than it ever has been before. And to your first
question about whether we're seeing the parties kind of go
closer to the middle, what we are seeing is that
there is an increase in the number of voters turning
to minor parties and to independence, so those people that
are kind of sitting outside of the major parties. And
so while there is certainly this move towards the major
parties getting closer and closer together, we see Peter Dudd
(06:36):
and Anthony Albanezi kind of commit to whatever the other
is doing. We do see, for example, the rise of
the Greens or the rise of independence, and so there
is this very full spectrum. The votes are kind of
just going in different ways than they traditionally would have.
But I do think that it's all cyclical. Nothing in
politics is new. It happens as a cycle, and we
kind of swing one way and then swing the other way.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
We were also talking earlier before about with the daily os.
You get a lot of responses regarding politics, a lot
of people asking questions, a lot of people spitting their
opinions at you guys, and we're sort of having a
conversation about whether we think our generation fully understands the
situation or if they are pretending to understand because they
don't want to admit they don't understand, and that they
(07:19):
are just spitting back information that they have heard from
other sources, just regurgitating. And I think it's really interesting
because I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about.
If there are people listening right now that don't completely
understand what they're voting for and why, that don't understand
how the political system works, that's nothing to be embarrassed about.
But that's why we do want to do these podcasts.
If you didn't grow up in a family like that,
(07:40):
or you don't have a huge interest in it and
you're not studying it, it's okay to not understand. You've
got to start somewhere, But you have to start somewhere.
So let's just start with the basics. The election is
coming up on May three, What does that mean for
the next three years? What are people actually voting for
and what are the fundamentals we should be understanding.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Before we go to vote.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I love this question because I mean I wrote a
book called No Silly Questions right behind you, actually just
behind me, for that very reason, because we don't want
people to feel embarrassed about asking questions. A lot of
the time, no one's ever been taught this stuff at school.
We know that civics literacy isn't taught at the standard
that it should be. And as you said, if you
don't grow up with it at home, where are you
meant to learn this? And so I do think it's
(08:21):
really important to just strip it back to the basics,
just fully understand what it is that you are engaging with.
So let's start at the beginning. So May three, we
have a federal election. That means that we are electing
who will form the federal government. So we have local,
state and federal. This is the big dog, so all
of Australia, not New South Wales, not Victoria, etc. When
(08:42):
you go into the ballot you will see that there
are two sheets of paper there for you. So we
have a lower House and an upper house in our
federal parliament. Lower House House of Reps Upper House Senate.
So we'll just deal with the lower House first because
that's kind of the one that will really impact two
forms government. So unless you live in two electorates in
(09:02):
the country, you are not going to see the names
of Anthony Albanesi or Peter Dudden on that ballot sheet
because you are electing who you want to send to
the Lower House and that person is not going to
be Anthony Albanzi or Peter Dudden unless you live in
Graindler or you live in.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Dixon, which are their electorates.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So for example, if you live in the electorate of Wentworth,
for example, you will see a sheet there that has
the Liberal candidate, the Labor candidate, the Independent candidate, the
Greens candidate.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I won't keep going with all of these things.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
You get the idea and you have to number one
and through however many candidates there are, you have to
fill out every single box in Australia, that's how it works,
and then that gets counted and whoever reaches the certain
magic number. In the House of Representatives, we have one
hundred and fifty seats and you have to reach a
certain threshold as a party to form government. Right now,
(09:57):
Labor has formed government because they have the majority of
seats in the lower House. That makes Anthony Albanezi our
current prime minister.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That could all.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Change when we head to the election and if the coalition,
which is the Liberal Party and the Nationals Party, if
they win enough seats to get to that magic number,
then they become the governing party of Australia and Peter
Dudden would instead become our prime minister. If we go
to the Senate, that's the upper house. You don't form
government in the upper house, but it does make it
(10:25):
easier to pass legislation if you have a majority in
the upper House and a majority in the lower house.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's really fascinating because I feel like a lot of
people go in there with the understanding of being like, Okay,
I want it to be alber Ezier, I want it
to be dune In, but don't really understand what may happen.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And preferences matter a lot with something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
We have a system called preferential voting, So who you
put as your number two matters a lot, as well
as your number one and everything else.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So what about in terms of voting for someone who
is an independent or a smaller party voting for the
Greens or voting for a Legraspender for example, if you're
in my area, what does that then contribute to.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, So we have in the lower House and in
the upper House something that's called the cross bench. So
we have a two party system, which means that the
major parties Labor and the Coalition, because they sit together
with the Nationals, they both physically, if you can imagine this,
sit on both sides of the chamber. And then in
the middle our parliament's very literal, we have something called
(11:24):
a cross bench, and that is made up of the
Independence and minor parties who don't fit into either of
those major parties. So, for example, a legras Bender, she
is currently a sitting MP. She represents Wentworth and she
sits in the middle of Labor and the Coalition, and
that means she doesn't have to vote with Labor, she
doesn't have to vote with the Coalition. She can decide
based on every piece of legislation that comes to her,
(11:46):
what she wants to do, based on the electorate that
she represents. And as I said earlier, we have seen
a rise in especially young people voting for Independence and
minor parties. The Greens are the biggest minor party, but
there's lots of smaller one you know, Pauline Hanson's One Nation,
for example, is a minor party that has been in
Parliament for a very long time. She's been there since
the nineties, and so you know, we've got to understand
(12:09):
who makes up our parliament today.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
But it's also no wonder like if anyone just listened
to that breakdown and you haven't ever been interested in politics,
you've never spoken about it or thought about it. I
understand why it's confusing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's so confusing. It is a very confusing sense. It's
not just like one and off you go.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
No, And I think there's a lot of people that
don't also understand the importance of the preferential voting, like
how important it is too label number two and three.
Don't just be like I've done my number one. I'll
fill the boxes so I don't get fine and I
can get out of here.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
In a previous life, my job around election time was
what was called a scrutineer, And a scrutineer literally watches
the counting of the votes and you have to watch
to make sure they're going in the right piles.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Is that what you're doing?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, this is how bloody minute. The process is that
we don't have computers doing this, we have humans doing this,
and you physically, like if the lowest preference is out,
you have to move them to the next part and
then to the next part, and you have to watch
that nobody is like putting it in the wrong pile
or trying to.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Influence a vote.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And so I have seen through that process how important
it is that you vote correctly because if you don't label,
every box gets thrown out and it's a donkey vote
and it doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
What do you think are the biggest ticket items that
are shaping this election coming up?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yes, such a good question I've done with the Daily
I was a lot of research into this because in
other elections it's been very clear there was one issue
that young people cared about far and away the most,
and that was climate change. It's not the case this election.
Cost of living is by far the biggest issue that
young people care about when it comes to who they
(13:38):
are voting for at this election. And we did this
whole bunch of polling and research and it was like
cost of living and then there was kind of all
of these adjacent issues, so things.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Like housing, cost of groceries.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And then like the sixth issue was climate change because
young people can't afford right now to care about all
the things that they know are urgent, because they can't
even take care themselves at the moment.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You can't put a roof over your head.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
How are you going to change the rest of.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
The world exactly, And it's a really challenging environment. We
know that a cost of living crisis isn't unique to Australia.
There's been high inflation all over the world, but we
are really feeling it here and so young people as
well as all generations. This isn't unique to young people.
We are really, we know, going to vote on the
hip pocket on cost of living.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is that a real radical change from the last election.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And when you say that the number one was climate change,
we were just in such a different economic state at
that time.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, we really were. And you know we called it
the climate change election. All of these teals, who are
a bunch of independents who won seats off the Liberal
Party were understood to have won because of their strong
stance on climate change. And that's just not the case
right now. Maybe it will return to that in the future.
We know young people care about it. It's still urgent
(14:50):
to them. They still think it's a really huge issue.
They just can't afford to care in the way that
they previously did.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I mean in terms of this is a very niche question.
But in terms of the political parties and theations that
have been had so far, I know that there's been
a lot of chatter around like the big supermarket chains,
price gouging and the insane profits that are being made
across like you know, fast moving consumer goods. Is there
big promises that are being made in this sort of realm.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, I mean there are across kind of the board.
We know that at the last budget, which was a
couple of weeks ago, that the government promised tax cuts
for everyone. Every single taxpayer was going to get a
tax cut that was supposed to help with the cost
of living. The Liberal Party has their own housing policy.
There are a bunch of different things, all of them
intended to get more money into.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
The pockets of taxpayers across.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
The country, but they kind of differ a bit in
how they intend to get there.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I don't know if this is too much of a
personal opinion. I know that you are unmiased, but who
do you think or what party is really pushing or
promising the most in terms of putting money back into
the pockets of our citizens.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah, I mean I understand the question. I don't think
I can answer that. It's I think it's a matter
of perspective. Really, if you believe the government shouldn't play
a big role in your life, and that they should
let the economy run as it is, then you would
naturally veer towards one side of politics. If you think
the government needs to intervene a lot, they need to
do a lot of welfare, they need to do all
(16:14):
of these things, you would naturally turn the other way.
So I think it's really a matter of perspective. People
just need to go out and really and I know
that we'll talk about this, but really go out and
understand what all sides of politics are offering, because you
don't need to be stridently one way. You can figure
out what you resonate deeply with and then kind of
vote accordingly.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, this is the interesting question, though, because what we've
seen that's so different this year, and you know, we
touched on it at the beginning, But what we saw
happen in the States is that there is this really
interesting cross section that's happening between pop culture and politics
in a way that it don't think it has been
as accessible.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Before one hundred percent. What are your.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Thoughts on people accessing their information around politics purely from
say TikTok or influencers or podcasts, like as someone that
works in the news every day, what is your advice
slash perspective on that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I think the key word that you just said
there is purely, because I think there is absolutely a
space for influencers to be talking about politics, for podcasters
to be talking about politics. I think the more people
that are talking about it, the better. I think the
problem that arises is if a person, whether they are
young or old, is only getting information from one source,
(17:31):
that is never good for you know, getting all the
information that you need.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Think it's really really important that if you are seeking
out information on this election from your favorite podcaster or
your favorite influencer or your favorite creator, you need to
couple that with getting some of the kind of unbiased,
foundational knowledge that you can get from certain news sources.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Also having complete understanding that what you're listening to is
opinion and not fact, because sometimes I think the two
can really be conf used.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
They can, And I mean like when you look at
a traditional newspaper, like I know a lot of people
aren't necessarily going out to buy a newspaper, but there are, however,
many pages, say twenty pages of the news, and then
there are the opinion pages, and it says opinion at
the top, and then it has a whole bunch of
op eds and I mean separate conversation about whether or
not that's a good thing, but they are clearly labeled
(18:22):
as op eds. And right now we don't have the
same kind of regulations or the same standards for content
creators because.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It is such a new space. You're right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
The US election was this real turning point where we
saw creators entering the political space meaningfully and engaging directly.
And so I think there will be some time still
while we try to catch up with how do we
label things as opinions so that anyone that's listening can
be like, that is this person's opinion. I respect their opinion,
(18:52):
but I also know the foundation of facts that sit
behind that opinion, and I think that's why TDA, for example,
I believe I'll toot my own horse that it's so
important what we do because we give you the foundation
of facts so that you can listen to your favorite
podcaster and be like, oh, I understand what they're saying here.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
But you need all of that together.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You always need a diverse media diet, otherwise you are
going to end up kind.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Of deep into this echo chamber.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I think it's so interesting because I deeply see the
benefits on both sides. Like I think like a lot
of people who obviously have very passionate views are educated
in the space. Of course it comes with biases, but
I think it is making it more accessible to people.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
But you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If that's the only people or the only way that
you're receiving your information, you turn into an echo chamber
of yourself, Like you're not even able to kind of
understand what is fact or is biased opinion because there's
nothing to compare it to.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And I think, like, let's take this chat for example,
your listeners weren't expecting when you started this that you
would have this like deep political fact driven thing. We
are here bringing a new perspective to your listener that
they can then go out and listen to a bunch
of things and that they have some knowledge that they
can interact and they might not have gotten that information
(20:07):
from anywhere else. So you're right, it's really important that
we do have this nexus point. It's great, we just
need more of it taken together. But I do think
it also needs to be mentioned and highlighted the legacy media,
so the newspapers, like they also have problems with bias.
This isn't a new media problem. Like the reason that
TDA exists is because there are problems in traditional news
(20:30):
as well that people don't trust. We know that there's
the lowest levels of trust in media for young people
like in history, and so this is kind of all
of media problem that we need to confront altogether.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, it's interesting when you say that, because I mean,
you can think of any news outlet and know that
it either has like a right leaning political bias or
a left leaning political bias, like you know, publications that
we're meant to be going to for the news. It's
tricky to say, oh, well, I won't get it from
pop culture because that's clearly got a bias when literally
it feels like across the board it's exist. I mean,
my favorite thing to look at in our comments section
(21:03):
is and this happened last week. We'll upload something and
then someone in the comments will be like, this is
being paid for by the Liberal Party. And then someone
else will be like, no, this is being paid for
by the Labor Party. They're left wing stooges.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And I'm like, well, we're clearly doing a good job
if you're both fighting about how left wing or right wing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
We're not paid.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
If we can tell you also paid by anyone, We're.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Just doing our jobs here.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think also the thing that can be tricky, especially
now with Instagram. It's something that we've talked about before
and TikTok as well, is that engagement is based on
outrage culture. So like the angrier that you can be
about something, the longer it's going to keep someone on
the platform for. And you know, outrage culture is such
a hugely beneficial tool for growing your own social media
and there's a personal gain that is also connected to
(21:45):
a monetary gain, but it's you know, it's a side step,
but it definitely builds the beast.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
But I mean, if you just take my business, for example,
we don't do opinion ever. We only do facts, and
if we did opinion, our business would probably be triple
the size that it is today. Because you're right, like
the algorithm feeds on outrage, people stay longer, people comment more.
You would probably bring more eyeballs, which means we could
(22:10):
sell more ads. But there has to be some value
always in just giving the facts. And it's really hard
when you know that your business could flourish, you know,
ten times more if you did one thing.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
How do you think we navigate I feel like the
world the last two to three years has been in
the most divisive time it has ever been, with US politics,
Australian politics.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Multiple wars.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
How do you think we navigate these conversations with our
families and friends when you do have different political opinions.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I think this is a really important question because ultimately
it does come down to values, because often our values
inform how we see the world and what we think
is right or wrong. But in saying that, I do
think that it is so important to be empathetic and
to really understand where the person sitting across from you
is coming from. No one creates these ideas in a
(22:59):
vac It's often informed by life decisions and life circumstances,
generational traumas.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
There are all of these things that happen in someone's
life to lead them to see the world in a
certain way. And so, you know, one of the things
that we say is so important for TDA is to
talk across and not down to our audience. And I
do think the same is true when it comes to
this speaking across from your friend and not down to them,
not saying I'm better than you or you're wrong, I'm right.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I can't believe you think that. How can you not
see like.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
All of these terms like finding a middle ground, there
is always going to be more middle ground than you expect,
and it's really on the fringes that these views really
start to diverge.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
From one another.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So I think just establishing what are the facts that
we agree on and sitting down and just having a
really I know that it can be I know this
is so much easier said than done. But having an
agreed set of facts of we both agree that we
want this for the world or we want this for
our families, and then understanding that they might want to
get there a bit differently, and just accepting that you
(24:05):
can have different beliefs and that that's actually okay too.
But I think the moment we shut people out, we
know that that pushes them further to the fringe. They'll
become more extreme if they don't have people to be
talking to. And I think sharing your opinion and sharing
your life experience and why you've come to this, like
Laura talking about why her family had voted a certain
(24:25):
way traditionally, like that's really important.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We had a really interesting conversation a while back, and
I remember the backlash I got from it because I
was like, I would love to be able to retaliate.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I was talking about it, so I'll do it now,
no months, it's been years, because it's very relatable.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
We were talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It was an asking cut question, and it was in
relation to the person talking about their grandparents having views
that were just not congruent with what was happening one
in the world today and to just like very outdated
and problematic views. And I was relating it to mike
grandparents they've both passed away now, and I was like, look,
my grandfather was an Italian immigrant who was bullied for
(25:06):
being a quote unquote wog, who denounced being Italian because
he was so ashamed because he just wanted to fit
in Australia. So he also had a very skewed view
on what it meant to be an immigrant here, and
he thought it meant denouncing your heritage and being an Aussie,
and so there were things that he thought that were
problematic and didn't align with my views. He was an
(25:27):
incredibly loving grandfather who was like a dad to me,
and I wasn't going to stop loving him because of
those views. I understood where they came from, and I
did my best to tell him when he was wrong. Yeah,
but the feedback to that, it was almost as though
there was this expectation that I would cut my granddad
out of my life. I'm like, guys, he's ninety four,
He's never going to change his fucking mind, and.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
What God is about to die?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, literally, what benefit to my life is it going
to be to not love him because I don't agree
with him. I can agree with him and I can
still love him greater disagree, And I know that that
doesn't sit with a lot people and also it's a
privileged ability to have. You know, it could be very
different if you're I mean, for example, if you're gay
and your parents don't believe in your rights or gay marriage, like,
(26:09):
that's a very different.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Hurdle to overcome.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But we all have to choose the things that's the
most important thing to us and where that person sits
in relation to us.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I do that, you're right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I think distinguishing harmful situations and in situations where a
person's perspective is harmful to your sense of self, to
your sense of identity, I think that you're entirely right.
That's a different kettle of fish. But you know, my
grandparents are exactly the same. My grandparents are ninety five
their Holocaust survivors who came out here with absolutely nothing,
no money. They had watched all of their family be
(26:39):
killed in front of their eyes. They came here with
you know, no sense of identity. Their Jewish identity had
been the reason that they had been persecuted. And so
their view of the world and of Australia is so.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Different to mine.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And the privilege that I grew up with, with safety,
with family, with money, all of these things that they
never had. And so when I sit across the dinner
table to my grandmother and she says things that are
wildly incongruent with my set of beliefs about the world,
I have to understand what's informed those views.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
One thing we do know about the algorithm, the way
social media works, and we kind of touch on a
little bit, but the idea of being in an echo
chamber of your own belief systems, and this is something
that came into effect quite a few years ago, but
it was like, you're going to get fed more of
what it is that you're engaging with. So if you're
engaging with left leaning politics, you'll be fed left leaning politics.
If you're engaging with right leaning you'll be fed right
leaning And that in itself can make people think a
(27:33):
certain way and also think that an outcome is going
to be a certain thing. I think that we saw
this quite a bit with the US election and people
thinking Kamala had more of a chance than what she did. Yeah,
I think we also saw it with a yes vote
in Australia. People were absolutely shocked by the landslide of
it being a no vote because we were seeing so
much of it in our own worlds on social media.
(27:54):
How do you think we can break the cycle of
that and be more literate in terms of what is
actually happening versus war we perceive to be happening.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, and this is so important because we were talking
off Mike before, and I think anyone that was watching
the polls or having conversations wasn't shocked by certain outcomes
because the second New stepped outside that echo chamber and
that we always talk about like the loud minorities, and
those minorities are very loud, but there is a very
(28:21):
kind of silent middle that is just out there not
talking about their views, not doing that. I think the
really really important thing, and I know I've said this before,
is to diversify where you're getting your information from. And
that means not only getting it from social media. I
know that's really rich because I run a social first
news service, but it's important. But I mean, like, we've
(28:42):
got a podcast, we've got newsletters. We've seen newsletters be
the biggest thing for us in terms of growth for
our business, and there are different ways that you can
find information outside of social media. So if you think
about the last ten pieces of political content and what
they were. If you think back and you're like, actually,
I didn't hear a contrary opinion in ten of those
(29:04):
pieces of content. They were all telling me that the
coalition's amazing, or they were all telling me that Labour's amazing.
I think that's a really good sign for you to
go out and actively seek out information from elsewhere. Like
when I wake up every morning, I read the news
from across the political spectrum. And I know that that's
unique because I work in news, but I will look
(29:25):
at about ten sources veering from the like kind of
far left outlets of the world to the far right
outlets of the world, because it's really important to know
what everyone is saying and how they're positioning information. It
also means that when you're having those conversations with people
that you might not agree with, you know what they're
reading too and how they formed those views, because what
(29:45):
you read really informs how you see things as well.
And so I think really being active, especially around an
election time, and being really poignant and saying I'm going
to seek out information from this or that or this
or that, and it just means you have a bit
more of a holistic diet that isn't just passive, it's
not just coming to you, as you said, based on
the clicks that you've had.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So, having said that, what do you think are some
of the main resources or tools people can use to
go and compare political parties or policies.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
There's a lot out there, and we're seeing so much
innovation in this space. I mean, when it comes to
specific election information, there are a bunch of tools. I've
seen a really cool tool recently built by two young
women that are doing amazing things. It's called build a
ballot And basically, you give this I'm not going to
pretend I understand the technology, but you give this piece
(30:34):
of technology, you answer a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It asks you like what do you think about this? This?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
That? And then at the end, based on the views
that you have described to this thing, it will literally
build a ballot for you. So it will tell you,
based on what you answered about what you think is important,
here is what you should number on the ballot box
one through seven. And so I think, you know, if
you are not one of the more politically engaged people
(31:01):
and you're finding that, you go to you know, the
local school on election day on May third, and you're like,
I don't know what I meant to number. A tool
like that can be really helpful because it's matching your
political beliefs too.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
For example, songs are not run by one of the
parties secretly.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But the thing I think that's interesting about this is
like a lot of people might know the one two three,
They might know the one two three four, well, the
one two yeah, but they don't know the rest and
the rest becomes a mish mash of Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It's like siety. Well, sometimes you just go for the name.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's like when you want to go buy a bottle
of wine someone I don't know wine. You want you
pick the label on the bottles?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, and then literally never resonated with something more.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But a fun fact is that before the election, there
is a lottery and all the candidates in a seat
have their names put into it, like like think of
it as like that lottery ball and their names are
put in and it's spun around and then it comes
out with the order of whose name is going to
be where on the ballot. Because we know that that's
important because so many people just put one next to
the first name because they don't know anything else, which
(32:04):
I understand, and so where the person's name is on
the ballot is really important. And I just think a
tool like build a ballot for example, or something like
vote Compass. The ABC has for the longest time had
something called vote Compass where you answer heaps the questions
about things that you might not think are like overtly political,
and then it tells you, based on what you answered,
(32:25):
we think that you would be best suited to voting
for X. And that is run by the public broadcaster.
They have a charter where they have to be independent.
They're not allowed to be biased, and I think tools
like this are really great for just a starting point.
You don't have to take it as gospel, but just
a starting point. Zara, thank you so much for coming
and being a part of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Honestly having me.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I think so many people are genuinely interested but don't
know where to get started and want to make sure
that the voice that they have counts to something that
feels important to them. But it is so so critical
where you get your information from, how you digest that information,
and daily OLS is a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I mean, I think I want my hearting note to
be there are no silly questions. If you feel like you.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Want to know the answers to something, there is so
much information available, always ask the questions.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
The chances are that someone else sitting next to you
has exactly the same questions.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So you know, having podcasts like this, you girls are
killing it and thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Thanks
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Now, as you all, i'm sure are very aware, there
is an important federal election coming up on May the third,
and you might have also noticed that when it comes
to politics, it can be particularly tricky to navigate these
conversations with the people that you love in your life,
especially when they sit on opposite sides of the fence. Today,
we are joined by Zara Seidler, who is the co
founder of The Daily Oz. But Zara has experience in
(00:37):
the political world and also has a degree in political science,
International and Global studies, majoring in government.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
If we want to get very specific.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
With things, very specific, very specific, okay, we wanted to
dive into how pop culture has become increasingly political, especially
I mean we saw it first in the US and
that has really migrated into how we are navigating this
election currently, why the divide in the left and the
right feels very extreme at the moment, and perhaps most importantly,
how do we have these conversations with people that we
(01:07):
love who have alternate views to us.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Zarah, Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me, girls,
time coming. I know, I'm really stoked to be here.
Just a small topic to talk about in my first podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Yeah, like yea, but where does your I mean we
were just speaking off Mike before this started, just about
how and where you started. You studied overseas in the US,
you studied in Georgetown. Where did your obsession come for politics?
Was it always something like through high school? Because it's
such I mean, it's so niche what you have studied,
(01:38):
So talk to us about how you ended up in
this industry.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I have always been interested in the news. I was
just like, kind of that really nosy. I think it's
actually just nosiness. I want to know everything all the time,
and so my family always tells me that when I
was younger, I would come downstairs in my family home
and just announce news to them. I wanted to be
the one that told them what had happened. I distinctly
remember when Michael Jackson died. I came down I was like, guys,
(02:02):
you won't believe it. He's dead, and everyone's like, good morning, Zarah,
it's a pleasure to see you this morning.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It's so funny you say that I was the same child.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
My favorite thing to do every morning as a teenager,
I was read the news and coming to my family
at breakfast.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
But I think, like, that's why you're a communicator now.
I do think that there is a really clear tie
between people who like to consume media and those who
go into it. And so, yeah, I studied at Georgetown
on exchange. It was when Donald Trump was first inaugurated
into the presidency, and it was probably the first time
that I.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Saw politics really all around me.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
You know, you got into a cab and cab driver
was talking about it, You went to a cafe and
the barister was talking about it, and then I came
home and that wasn't the case. No one was talking
about politics. And I just really really cared. I really
wanted my friends to care. I wanted to talk about
it with them. So Sam, my best friend and now
co founder, and I we started the Daily OS honestly
(02:58):
just as a side hustle to be to talk to
our friends about the news.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
It was selfish.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I was like, I want them to care as much
as I do. We'll start this thing, and a couple
of years later, here we are. But also I think
it wasn't just around like get your friends to care.
It was also the accessibility of it.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Bringing the news to social media in a way that
was impartial was something that was ahead of its time
because there was news on social media and people were
consuming it that way. But so much of it was
just so deeply trenched in biases by people who didn't
necessarily have the skill set to be giving.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
The news out.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, I mean so much of it goes to the
fact that my friends at that time did care. They
just didn't know where to get their information. Yea, and
the legacy media. It wasn't speaking their language. It wasn't
speaking directly to them, It wasn't using language they understood,
it wasn't explaining things.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Why do you think that is though?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Why do you think the disparity is so large between
the way that it's spoken about and the obsession and
interest in the US than it is here in Australia.
Because even when I think growing up wasn't something my
family spoke a lot about, wasn't something you read on
the news, was something anyone.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Was talking about.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It was just like, oh, this is who's in charge now.
No one the number of people that would go and
vote that had no idea who they were voting for,
what they were voting for. If you asked them when
they walked out, that's say, oh, I just picked a number,
Why do you reckon? We just never had that obsession.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
I think we have mandatory voting here and the US doesn't,
and I think that makes a really big difference. In
the US, you have to convince people to care enough
to go and vote. Here, you just have to convince
people to pay attention as like a starting point, and
so I think that there is a smaller leap that
has to be done, and so it isn't spoken about
as much. And also because we have mandatory voting, our
(04:37):
parties tend to be more around the center because it's
not on that fringe as much.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I think it really depends on the household you grew
up in, because I feel like my household was pretty
conversation around politics. But growing up I really understood the
divide between labor and liberal and that's because my grandfather
and my paper he worked in the coal mines, he
worked in steel mines, so we were a labor voting family.
And I think going back forty years ago, there was
(05:01):
such a division between what the party stood for and
now it seems as though things are far more moved
towards the middle. And I guess like another big question
around it. Do you think that young people are showing
more of an interest or do you think it's just
more accessible now with social media?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yeah, I think I'll take your second question first. I
do think that we are just hearing about it more
and it's more accessible now. I don't think that young
people caring about politics is new. You know, if you
look back decades, you see young people out in the
streets protesting wars and protesting governments.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's not new.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's interesting because I was talking to my mother in
law about this and talking about how there's just this
fierce interest on social media and she was like, Laura,
I was protesting for women's rights when I was at
university in the seventies. She's like, it makes me annoy
that you think it's different now, And I was like,
I really don't, but I think we forget what our
past generations did as university students.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know, it's not new.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Young people have always been highly highly political. I think
it's just amplified now because of social media and we
can see it and people can post something and that
looks like they are taking a political stand on something.
Whereas before you had to physically go out, go and protest,
go call your local representative, whatever it was. It's a
lot more accessible now to I guess, engage with politics
(06:14):
than it ever has been before. And to your first
question about whether we're seeing the parties kind of go
closer to the middle, what we are seeing is that
there is an increase in the number of voters turning
to minor parties and to independence, so those people that
are kind of sitting outside of the major parties. And
so while there is certainly this move towards the major
parties getting closer and closer together, we see Peter Dudd
(06:36):
and Anthony Albanezi kind of commit to whatever the other
is doing. We do see, for example, the rise of
the Greens or the rise of independence, and so there
is this very full spectrum. The votes are kind of
just going in different ways than they traditionally would have.
But I do think that it's all cyclical. Nothing in
politics is new. It happens as a cycle, and we
kind of swing one way and then swing the other way.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
We were also talking earlier before about with the daily os.
You get a lot of responses regarding politics, a lot
of people asking questions, a lot of people spitting their
opinions at you guys, and we're sort of having a
conversation about whether we think our generation fully understands the
situation or if they are pretending to understand because they
don't want to admit they don't understand, and that they
(07:19):
are just spitting back information that they have heard from
other sources, just regurgitating. And I think it's really interesting
because I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about.
If there are people listening right now that don't completely
understand what they're voting for and why, that don't understand
how the political system works, that's nothing to be embarrassed about.
But that's why we do want to do these podcasts.
If you didn't grow up in a family like that,
(07:40):
or you don't have a huge interest in it and
you're not studying it, it's okay to not understand. You've
got to start somewhere, But you have to start somewhere.
So let's just start with the basics. The election is
coming up on May three, What does that mean for
the next three years? What are people actually voting for
and what are the fundamentals we should be understanding.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Before we go to vote.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I love this question because I mean I wrote a
book called No Silly Questions right behind you, actually just
behind me, for that very reason, because we don't want
people to feel embarrassed about asking questions. A lot of
the time, no one's ever been taught this stuff at school.
We know that civics literacy isn't taught at the standard
that it should be. And as you said, if you
don't grow up with it at home, where are you
meant to learn this? And so I do think it's
(08:21):
really important to just strip it back to the basics,
just fully understand what it is that you are engaging with.
So let's start at the beginning. So May three, we
have a federal election. That means that we are electing
who will form the federal government. So we have local,
state and federal. This is the big dog, so all
of Australia, not New South Wales, not Victoria, etc. When
(08:42):
you go into the ballot you will see that there
are two sheets of paper there for you. So we
have a lower House and an upper house in our
federal parliament. Lower House House of Reps Upper House Senate.
So we'll just deal with the lower House first because
that's kind of the one that will really impact two
forms government. So unless you live in two electorates in
(09:02):
the country, you are not going to see the names
of Anthony Albanesi or Peter Dudden on that ballot sheet
because you are electing who you want to send to
the Lower House and that person is not going to
be Anthony Albanzi or Peter Dudden unless you live in
Graindler or you live in.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Dixon, which are their electorates.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So for example, if you live in the electorate of Wentworth,
for example, you will see a sheet there that has
the Liberal candidate, the Labor candidate, the Independent candidate, the
Greens candidate.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I won't keep going with all of these things.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
You get the idea and you have to number one
and through however many candidates there are, you have to
fill out every single box in Australia, that's how it works,
and then that gets counted and whoever reaches the certain
magic number. In the House of Representatives, we have one
hundred and fifty seats and you have to reach a
certain threshold as a party to form government. Right now,
(09:57):
Labor has formed government because they have the majority of
seats in the lower House. That makes Anthony Albanezi our
current prime minister.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
That could all.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Change when we head to the election and if the coalition,
which is the Liberal Party and the Nationals Party, if
they win enough seats to get to that magic number,
then they become the governing party of Australia and Peter
Dudden would instead become our prime minister. If we go
to the Senate, that's the upper house. You don't form
government in the upper house, but it does make it
(10:25):
easier to pass legislation if you have a majority in
the upper House and a majority in the lower house.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's really fascinating because I feel like a lot of
people go in there with the understanding of being like, Okay,
I want it to be alber Ezier, I want it
to be dune In, but don't really understand what may happen.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
And preferences matter a lot with something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
We have a system called preferential voting, So who you
put as your number two matters a lot, as well
as your number one and everything else.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
So what about in terms of voting for someone who
is an independent or a smaller party voting for the
Greens or voting for a Legraspender for example, if you're
in my area, what does that then contribute to.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, So we have in the lower House and in
the upper House something that's called the cross bench. So
we have a two party system, which means that the
major parties Labor and the Coalition, because they sit together
with the Nationals, they both physically, if you can imagine this,
sit on both sides of the chamber. And then in
the middle our parliament's very literal, we have something called
(11:24):
a cross bench, and that is made up of the
Independence and minor parties who don't fit into either of
those major parties. So, for example, a legras Bender, she
is currently a sitting MP. She represents Wentworth and she
sits in the middle of Labor and the Coalition, and
that means she doesn't have to vote with Labor, she
doesn't have to vote with the Coalition. She can decide
based on every piece of legislation that comes to her,
(11:46):
what she wants to do, based on the electorate that
she represents. And as I said earlier, we have seen
a rise in especially young people voting for Independence and
minor parties. The Greens are the biggest minor party, but
there's lots of smaller one you know, Pauline Hanson's One Nation,
for example, is a minor party that has been in
Parliament for a very long time. She's been there since
the nineties, and so you know, we've got to understand
(12:09):
who makes up our parliament today.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
But it's also no wonder like if anyone just listened
to that breakdown and you haven't ever been interested in politics,
you've never spoken about it or thought about it. I
understand why it's confusing.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
It's so confusing. It is a very confusing sense. It's
not just like one and off you go.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
No, And I think there's a lot of people that
don't also understand the importance of the preferential voting, like
how important it is too label number two and three.
Don't just be like I've done my number one. I'll
fill the boxes so I don't get fine and I
can get out of here.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
In a previous life, my job around election time was
what was called a scrutineer, And a scrutineer literally watches
the counting of the votes and you have to watch
to make sure they're going in the right piles.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Is that what you're doing?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, this is how bloody minute. The process is that
we don't have computers doing this, we have humans doing this,
and you physically, like if the lowest preference is out,
you have to move them to the next part and
then to the next part, and you have to watch
that nobody is like putting it in the wrong pile
or trying to.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Influence a vote.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
And so I have seen through that process how important
it is that you vote correctly because if you don't label,
every box gets thrown out and it's a donkey vote
and it doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
What do you think are the biggest ticket items that
are shaping this election coming up?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yes, such a good question I've done with the Daily
I was a lot of research into this because in
other elections it's been very clear there was one issue
that young people cared about far and away the most,
and that was climate change. It's not the case this election.
Cost of living is by far the biggest issue that
young people care about when it comes to who they
(13:38):
are voting for at this election. And we did this
whole bunch of polling and research and it was like
cost of living and then there was kind of all
of these adjacent issues, so things.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Like housing, cost of groceries.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And then like the sixth issue was climate change because
young people can't afford right now to care about all
the things that they know are urgent, because they can't
even take care themselves at the moment.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You can't put a roof over your head.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
How are you going to change the rest of.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
The world exactly, And it's a really challenging environment. We
know that a cost of living crisis isn't unique to Australia.
There's been high inflation all over the world, but we
are really feeling it here and so young people as
well as all generations. This isn't unique to young people.
We are really, we know, going to vote on the
hip pocket on cost of living.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Is that a real radical change from the last election.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And when you say that the number one was climate change,
we were just in such a different economic state at
that time.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, we really were. And you know we called it
the climate change election. All of these teals, who are
a bunch of independents who won seats off the Liberal
Party were understood to have won because of their strong
stance on climate change. And that's just not the case
right now. Maybe it will return to that in the future.
We know young people care about it. It's still urgent
(14:50):
to them. They still think it's a really huge issue.
They just can't afford to care in the way that
they previously did.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I mean in terms of this is a very niche question.
But in terms of the political parties and theations that
have been had so far, I know that there's been
a lot of chatter around like the big supermarket chains,
price gouging and the insane profits that are being made
across like you know, fast moving consumer goods. Is there
big promises that are being made in this sort of realm.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah, I mean there are across kind of the board.
We know that at the last budget, which was a
couple of weeks ago, that the government promised tax cuts
for everyone. Every single taxpayer was going to get a
tax cut that was supposed to help with the cost
of living. The Liberal Party has their own housing policy.
There are a bunch of different things, all of them
intended to get more money into.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
The pockets of taxpayers across.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
The country, but they kind of differ a bit in
how they intend to get there.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I don't know if this is too much of a
personal opinion. I know that you are unmiased, but who
do you think or what party is really pushing or
promising the most in terms of putting money back into
the pockets of our citizens.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah, I mean I understand the question. I don't think
I can answer that. It's I think it's a matter
of perspective. Really, if you believe the government shouldn't play
a big role in your life, and that they should
let the economy run as it is, then you would
naturally veer towards one side of politics. If you think
the government needs to intervene a lot, they need to
do a lot of welfare, they need to do all
(16:14):
of these things, you would naturally turn the other way.
So I think it's really a matter of perspective. People
just need to go out and really and I know
that we'll talk about this, but really go out and
understand what all sides of politics are offering, because you
don't need to be stridently one way. You can figure
out what you resonate deeply with and then kind of
vote accordingly.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Well, this is the interesting question, though, because what we've
seen that's so different this year, and you know, we
touched on it at the beginning, But what we saw
happen in the States is that there is this really
interesting cross section that's happening between pop culture and politics
in a way that it don't think it has been
as accessible.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Before one hundred percent. What are your.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Thoughts on people accessing their information around politics purely from
say TikTok or influencers or podcasts, like as someone that
works in the news every day, what is your advice
slash perspective on that.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I think the key word that you just said
there is purely, because I think there is absolutely a
space for influencers to be talking about politics, for podcasters
to be talking about politics. I think the more people
that are talking about it, the better. I think the
problem that arises is if a person, whether they are
young or old, is only getting information from one source,
(17:31):
that is never good for you know, getting all the
information that you need.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And so I.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Think it's really really important that if you are seeking
out information on this election from your favorite podcaster or
your favorite influencer or your favorite creator, you need to
couple that with getting some of the kind of unbiased,
foundational knowledge that you can get from certain news sources.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Also having complete understanding that what you're listening to is
opinion and not fact, because sometimes I think the two
can really be conf used.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
They can, And I mean like when you look at
a traditional newspaper, like I know a lot of people
aren't necessarily going out to buy a newspaper, but there are, however,
many pages, say twenty pages of the news, and then
there are the opinion pages, and it says opinion at
the top, and then it has a whole bunch of
op eds and I mean separate conversation about whether or
not that's a good thing, but they are clearly labeled
(18:22):
as op eds. And right now we don't have the
same kind of regulations or the same standards for content
creators because.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It is such a new space. You're right.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
The US election was this real turning point where we
saw creators entering the political space meaningfully and engaging directly.
And so I think there will be some time still
while we try to catch up with how do we
label things as opinions so that anyone that's listening can
be like, that is this person's opinion. I respect their opinion,
(18:52):
but I also know the foundation of facts that sit
behind that opinion, and I think that's why TDA, for example,
I believe I'll toot my own horse that it's so
important what we do because we give you the foundation
of facts so that you can listen to your favorite
podcaster and be like, oh, I understand what they're saying here.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
But you need all of that together.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
You always need a diverse media diet, otherwise you are
going to end up kind.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Of deep into this echo chamber.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I think it's so interesting because I deeply see the
benefits on both sides. Like I think like a lot
of people who obviously have very passionate views are educated
in the space. Of course it comes with biases, but
I think it is making it more accessible to people.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
But you hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
If that's the only people or the only way that
you're receiving your information, you turn into an echo chamber
of yourself, Like you're not even able to kind of
understand what is fact or is biased opinion because there's
nothing to compare it to.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And I think, like, let's take this chat for example,
your listeners weren't expecting when you started this that you
would have this like deep political fact driven thing. We
are here bringing a new perspective to your listener that
they can then go out and listen to a bunch
of things and that they have some knowledge that they
can interact and they might not have gotten that information
(20:07):
from anywhere else. So you're right, it's really important that
we do have this nexus point. It's great, we just
need more of it taken together. But I do think
it also needs to be mentioned and highlighted the legacy media,
so the newspapers, like they also have problems with bias.
This isn't a new media problem. Like the reason that
TDA exists is because there are problems in traditional news
(20:30):
as well that people don't trust. We know that there's
the lowest levels of trust in media for young people
like in history, and so this is kind of all
of media problem that we need to confront altogether.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, it's interesting when you say that, because I mean,
you can think of any news outlet and know that
it either has like a right leaning political bias or
a left leaning political bias, like you know, publications that
we're meant to be going to for the news. It's
tricky to say, oh, well, I won't get it from
pop culture because that's clearly got a bias when literally
it feels like across the board it's exist. I mean,
my favorite thing to look at in our comments section
(21:03):
is and this happened last week. We'll upload something and
then someone in the comments will be like, this is
being paid for by the Liberal Party. And then someone
else will be like, no, this is being paid for
by the Labor Party. They're left wing stooges.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
And I'm like, well, we're clearly doing a good job
if you're both fighting about how left wing or right wing.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
We're not paid.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
If we can tell you also paid by anyone, We're.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Just doing our jobs here.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I think also the thing that can be tricky, especially
now with Instagram. It's something that we've talked about before
and TikTok as well, is that engagement is based on
outrage culture. So like the angrier that you can be
about something, the longer it's going to keep someone on
the platform for. And you know, outrage culture is such
a hugely beneficial tool for growing your own social media
and there's a personal gain that is also connected to
(21:45):
a monetary gain, but it's you know, it's a side step,
but it definitely builds the beast.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
But I mean, if you just take my business, for example,
we don't do opinion ever. We only do facts, and
if we did opinion, our business would probably be triple
the size that it is today. Because you're right, like
the algorithm feeds on outrage, people stay longer, people comment more.
You would probably bring more eyeballs, which means we could
(22:10):
sell more ads. But there has to be some value
always in just giving the facts. And it's really hard
when you know that your business could flourish, you know,
ten times more if you did one thing.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
How do you think we navigate I feel like the
world the last two to three years has been in
the most divisive time it has ever been, with US politics,
Australian politics.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Multiple wars.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
How do you think we navigate these conversations with our
families and friends when you do have different political opinions.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
I think this is a really important question because ultimately
it does come down to values, because often our values
inform how we see the world and what we think
is right or wrong. But in saying that, I do
think that it is so important to be empathetic and
to really understand where the person sitting across from you
is coming from. No one creates these ideas in a
(22:59):
vac It's often informed by life decisions and life circumstances,
generational traumas.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
There are all of these things that happen in someone's
life to lead them to see the world in a
certain way. And so, you know, one of the things
that we say is so important for TDA is to
talk across and not down to our audience. And I
do think the same is true when it comes to
this speaking across from your friend and not down to them,
not saying I'm better than you or you're wrong, I'm right.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I can't believe you think that. How can you not
see like.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
All of these terms like finding a middle ground, there
is always going to be more middle ground than you expect,
and it's really on the fringes that these views really
start to diverge.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
From one another.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
So I think just establishing what are the facts that
we agree on and sitting down and just having a
really I know that it can be I know this
is so much easier said than done. But having an
agreed set of facts of we both agree that we
want this for the world or we want this for
our families, and then understanding that they might want to
get there a bit differently, and just accepting that you
(24:05):
can have different beliefs and that that's actually okay too.
But I think the moment we shut people out, we
know that that pushes them further to the fringe. They'll
become more extreme if they don't have people to be
talking to. And I think sharing your opinion and sharing
your life experience and why you've come to this, like
Laura talking about why her family had voted a certain
(24:25):
way traditionally, like that's really important.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
We had a really interesting conversation a while back, and
I remember the backlash I got from it because I
was like, I would love to be able to retaliate.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
But sometimes you just have to bite your tongue.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I was talking about it, so I'll do it now,
no months, it's been years, because it's very relatable.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
We were talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
It was an asking cut question, and it was in
relation to the person talking about their grandparents having views
that were just not congruent with what was happening one
in the world today and to just like very outdated
and problematic views. And I was relating it to mike
grandparents they've both passed away now, and I was like, look,
my grandfather was an Italian immigrant who was bullied for
(25:06):
being a quote unquote wog, who denounced being Italian because
he was so ashamed because he just wanted to fit
in Australia. So he also had a very skewed view
on what it meant to be an immigrant here, and
he thought it meant denouncing your heritage and being an Aussie,
and so there were things that he thought that were
problematic and didn't align with my views. He was an
(25:27):
incredibly loving grandfather who was like a dad to me,
and I wasn't going to stop loving him because of
those views. I understood where they came from, and I
did my best to tell him when he was wrong. Yeah,
but the feedback to that, it was almost as though
there was this expectation that I would cut my granddad
out of my life. I'm like, guys, he's ninety four,
He's never going to change his fucking mind, and.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
What God is about to die?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Well, literally, what benefit to my life is it going
to be to not love him because I don't agree
with him. I can agree with him and I can
still love him greater disagree, And I know that that
doesn't sit with a lot people and also it's a
privileged ability to have. You know, it could be very
different if you're I mean, for example, if you're gay
and your parents don't believe in your rights or gay marriage, like,
(26:09):
that's a very different.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Hurdle to overcome.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
But we all have to choose the things that's the
most important thing to us and where that person sits
in relation to us.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, I do that, you're right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I think distinguishing harmful situations and in situations where a
person's perspective is harmful to your sense of self, to
your sense of identity, I think that you're entirely right.
That's a different kettle of fish. But you know, my
grandparents are exactly the same. My grandparents are ninety five
their Holocaust survivors who came out here with absolutely nothing,
no money. They had watched all of their family be
(26:39):
killed in front of their eyes. They came here with
you know, no sense of identity. Their Jewish identity had
been the reason that they had been persecuted. And so
their view of the world and of Australia is so.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Different to mine.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
And the privilege that I grew up with, with safety,
with family, with money, all of these things that they
never had. And so when I sit across the dinner
table to my grandmother and she says things that are
wildly incongruent with my set of beliefs about the world,
I have to understand what's informed those views.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
One thing we do know about the algorithm, the way
social media works, and we kind of touch on a
little bit, but the idea of being in an echo
chamber of your own belief systems, and this is something
that came into effect quite a few years ago, but
it was like, you're going to get fed more of
what it is that you're engaging with. So if you're
engaging with left leaning politics, you'll be fed left leaning politics.
If you're engaging with right leaning you'll be fed right
leaning And that in itself can make people think a
(27:33):
certain way and also think that an outcome is going
to be a certain thing. I think that we saw
this quite a bit with the US election and people
thinking Kamala had more of a chance than what she did. Yeah,
I think we also saw it with a yes vote
in Australia. People were absolutely shocked by the landslide of
it being a no vote because we were seeing so
much of it in our own worlds on social media.
(27:54):
How do you think we can break the cycle of
that and be more literate in terms of what is
actually happening versus war we perceive to be happening.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, and this is so important because we were talking
off Mike before, and I think anyone that was watching
the polls or having conversations wasn't shocked by certain outcomes
because the second New stepped outside that echo chamber and
that we always talk about like the loud minorities, and
those minorities are very loud, but there is a very
(28:21):
kind of silent middle that is just out there not
talking about their views, not doing that. I think the
really really important thing, and I know I've said this before,
is to diversify where you're getting your information from. And
that means not only getting it from social media. I
know that's really rich because I run a social first
news service, but it's important. But I mean, like, we've
(28:42):
got a podcast, we've got newsletters. We've seen newsletters be
the biggest thing for us in terms of growth for
our business, and there are different ways that you can
find information outside of social media. So if you think
about the last ten pieces of political content and what
they were. If you think back and you're like, actually,
I didn't hear a contrary opinion in ten of those
(29:04):
pieces of content. They were all telling me that the
coalition's amazing, or they were all telling me that Labour's amazing.
I think that's a really good sign for you to
go out and actively seek out information from elsewhere. Like
when I wake up every morning, I read the news
from across the political spectrum. And I know that that's
unique because I work in news, but I will look
(29:25):
at about ten sources veering from the like kind of
far left outlets of the world to the far right
outlets of the world, because it's really important to know
what everyone is saying and how they're positioning information. It
also means that when you're having those conversations with people
that you might not agree with, you know what they're
reading too and how they formed those views, because what
(29:45):
you read really informs how you see things as well.
And so I think really being active, especially around an
election time, and being really poignant and saying I'm going
to seek out information from this or that or this
or that, and it just means you have a bit
more of a holistic diet that isn't just passive, it's
not just coming to you, as you said, based on
the clicks that you've had.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
So, having said that, what do you think are some
of the main resources or tools people can use to
go and compare political parties or policies.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
There's a lot out there, and we're seeing so much
innovation in this space. I mean, when it comes to
specific election information, there are a bunch of tools. I've
seen a really cool tool recently built by two young
women that are doing amazing things. It's called build a
ballot And basically, you give this I'm not going to
pretend I understand the technology, but you give this piece
(30:34):
of technology, you answer a bunch of questions.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
It asks you like what do you think about this? This?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
That? And then at the end, based on the views
that you have described to this thing, it will literally
build a ballot for you. So it will tell you,
based on what you answered about what you think is important,
here is what you should number on the ballot box
one through seven. And so I think, you know, if
you are not one of the more politically engaged people
(31:01):
and you're finding that, you go to you know, the
local school on election day on May third, and you're like,
I don't know what I meant to number. A tool
like that can be really helpful because it's matching your
political beliefs too.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
For example, songs are not run by one of the
parties secretly.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But the thing I think that's interesting about this is
like a lot of people might know the one two three,
They might know the one two three four, well, the
one two yeah, but they don't know the rest and
the rest becomes a mish mash of Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
It's like siety. Well, sometimes you just go for the name.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's like when you want to go buy a bottle
of wine someone I don't know wine. You want you
pick the label on the bottles?
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, and then literally never resonated with something more.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
But a fun fact is that before the election, there
is a lottery and all the candidates in a seat
have their names put into it, like like think of
it as like that lottery ball and their names are
put in and it's spun around and then it comes
out with the order of whose name is going to
be where on the ballot. Because we know that that's
important because so many people just put one next to
the first name because they don't know anything else, which
(32:04):
I understand, and so where the person's name is on
the ballot is really important. And I just think a
tool like build a ballot for example, or something like
vote Compass. The ABC has for the longest time had
something called vote Compass where you answer heaps the questions
about things that you might not think are like overtly political,
and then it tells you, based on what you answered,
(32:25):
we think that you would be best suited to voting
for X. And that is run by the public broadcaster.
They have a charter where they have to be independent.
They're not allowed to be biased, and I think tools
like this are really great for just a starting point.
You don't have to take it as gospel, but just
a starting point. Zara, thank you so much for coming
and being a part of the podcast.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Honestly having me.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I think so many people are genuinely interested but don't
know where to get started and want to make sure
that the voice that they have counts to something that
feels important to them. But it is so so critical
where you get your information from, how you digest that information,
and daily OLS is a great place to start.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I mean, I think I want my hearting note to
be there are no silly questions. If you feel like you.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Want to know the answers to something, there is so
much information available, always ask the questions.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
The chances are that someone else sitting next to you
has exactly the same questions.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So you know, having podcasts like this, you girls are
killing it and thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Thanks
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