Going No-Contact. Self Preservation Or Selfish?

Hey Lifers!

We have a new drinking game for you all based on our individual ‘habits’ (flaws) and Ben has a very important question for Keeshia that could tear the team apart. Black Friday sales have got the better of some of us and Britt has a nice challenge for Laura during the busiest time of her year. Laura’s really showcasing how different things can be for the 3rd kid. Poppy’s actual birth date and full name are TBC. Britt shares a crazy story about how her dad spent most of his life not knowing his age!

In a recent episode of Oprah’s podcast, Oprah tackled the rise of “going no contact” where adult children cut ties with parents or family. Is it destroying families, or is an act of ultimate self preservation and protecting your mental health?

We speak about:

• The conversation around emotional safety, mental health and boundaries has changed
• What was once taboo (cutting ties with parents) is now being discussed openly — especially by our generations
• There doesn’t seem to be a line in the sand for what is and what is not ‘valid’ for going no contact
• Why family are the only people we are ‘willing’ to accept bad behaviour from
• Have we gone too far with ‘boundary’ talk/ don’t have enough grace for our parents?
• If validation and self reflection are the only solution

You can watch the whole episode of ‘Oprah Explores the Rising Trend of Going No Contact with Your Family’

If you’d like to listen to a previous episode where we spoke about estrangement, you can here:

Narcissistic parents
Sam Fischer
Em Carey
Bridget Hustwaite 
Melissa Leong 

You can watch us on Youtube

Find us on Instagram

Join us on tiktok

Or join the Facebook Discussion Group

Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne & Keeshia Pettit 

Produced by Keeshia Pettit

Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford

Recorded on Cammeraygal Land

Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! Xx

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life onun Cut.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittney. So just kick starting this off.
Just on the way in here this morning.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Ben was like, because Ben and I talk on the
phone every day, on the way in, that's the time
that we talk because he's going to bed, I'm awake,
and he's like, can you call Kisher in?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
And I was like yeah, why.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
He's like, I need to ask for something, and I
said okay, So I called keisher in and then Keisha
was at the vet dropping her dog off, Bonnie off
to get d sex and it apparently wasn't the time
for Ben to ask his question, so he didn't get
to ask me ask you because.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
You were like, I'm so anxious.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Ben was like, I'm really curious, what's the question.

Speaker 5 (00:49):
Hello, I'm overworld with anxiety. Sorry, I know I'm overtaking it.
Is it normal to feel anxiety when your dog goes
in to get to sexing because I'm feeling so anxious?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Well, it's an operation.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah, I think she's just so little, but I think
it's also fine, Like every single dog does it.

Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, we got one comment once It was a couple
of weeks ago from someone being like, every time Keisha
and Britain are on the podcast together, all they talk
about is their dogs, and I was like, you clearly
don't follow my Instagram you would be outraged.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
I also like that forty five seconds in, whilst it's
trying to tell a different story, She's like, I have sorry.

Speaker 6 (01:22):
Sure, I wonder why people say that I'm just anxious.

Speaker 7 (01:26):
Okay, I'm on high anxiety and I'm feeling stressed.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Also, that was all we talked about.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
We often talk about babies as well, so fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Off and we talk about we talk about pooh, we
talk about heaps and laviers, guys for all of the others.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
If you actually do you know what coming into Christmas,
there probably should be some Christmas drinking game coming into
the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, there already is. Life has made it last year.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
Oh, I know there needs to be a new one,
an updated one based on this year. It needs to
be how many times you're gonna have sex with your husband?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Anytime Britt mentions having sex with ben An.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
You know I mentioned anything postpartum or about my laber yours.

Speaker 7 (02:00):
Is there was a drinking game last year.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
I don't know if you saw it.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Anytime I say triangular.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Or galvanized, or galvanized anytime Kisha mentions Bonnie, anytime Delilah's mentioned,
or Poppy.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
To be there. I don't mention Delilah a lot anymore.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I think I've taken over. That was the criticism.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
The triangulated made me laugh, and I was like, that
is true.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
You've done a very good job at not using it
this year.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I had to censor myself.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
I've come up with new words, but no, I'm here
for the question, Britte, what is it?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
He's like, I wanted to ask you this question, but
then she was all panic attack and I didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
And I was like, oh, what's the question. I can
ask her if you want, And he's like, oh, that'd
be great.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
He said, Well, as you know, I listened to every
episode of the podcast, because he does.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Bless him.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
One from my family or anyone who loves me listens
to every episode.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
I think I like one friend who listens to every episode.

Speaker 5 (02:50):
Still I don't I think Hiker.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
I don't think Ben would listen as much. To be honest,
if we live together. But I think it's his way
of just like keeping up with the Joe. So he's
like I listened to the episode a couple of days
ago where you were all talking. You were doing an
ask on cart and you were unpacking it. It was
a question about if you hired somebody that you'd slept with,
that your partner has slept with in the past.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, we're talking about a receptionist. She hired someone.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
It turns out that person and hooked up with her
partner in the past and kiss. She goes, Well, Laura,
for example, if I fucked Matt and then you found
out years later, how would you feel?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
And Ben wants to know why you chose Matt and
you didn't want to. He wants to know why why
you didn't want to have sex with Ben.

Speaker 5 (03:31):
Proximity to the person is the reason I chose Matt. Ben,
I apologize. If I was given the option, no, I
think it was time. I think, No, you love big
people and that question.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Now, if I was given the option of Ben or Matt,
make it real awkward, you'd go Ben, surely.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I ask me. It's like, surely it's my husband, I.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Think, because the destruction I don't know, because like then
I might lose access to Delilah.

Speaker 7 (04:00):
Like what would be more destruct.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Like if you had to break down a relationship?

Speaker 5 (04:04):
Yeah, would I break down a family with three children?
Or would I break down my access to my supplementary
child Delilah.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
It depends on when you did it, because if you've
done it in the last couple of months, you'd.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Been doing me a faith.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
Taking a job of her play on my piece. You're welcome,
all right, I'll let you do it. And to be clear,
I don't think Ben wants to have sex with you.
I think you've just been upset.

Speaker 7 (04:30):
Maybe that's my question back to you, Ben, why not?

Speaker 3 (04:32):
It was the same as when Mitch Chury on radio
he chose to have sex with Law over me.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
You still think about that?

Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's my Roman Empire?

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Hey, Can I just say firstly, this is coming out
on Wednesday, as you guys know, if you're listening to
it today, it is three weeks until Christmas as of
right this very second.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Three weeks.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
That's three weeks.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
I have three weeks to find a glittle light up
water bottle. Laula's been very specific. They don't exist, but
I've looked everywhere. She wants a light up, glitter up
water bottle. And when I said the other day, I
was like, I don't know where we're going to get
one from. And she was like, well, clearly Santa's gonna
make it.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I was, oh, no, yeah, you got me.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
I was like, where did you see one? And She's like,
in my brain?

Speaker 4 (05:09):
So my kid's just making up imaginary toys that she wants.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Surely you can go on Amazon or Teamu when that exists.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
I've looked, but I also don't really want to give
my kid a water bottle from Timu. That sounds like
plastic poisoning right there. No, I've looked. I've looked, but
it's it's real.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
It's on and for how many Black Friday sales have
just happened over the last week.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
I did not buy a single present during Black Friday.
Like I bought a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
That also seems weird.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
I thought that would be when Karon's like looking it down, yeah,
you would think, but I was overwhelmed.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
There were so many ads, Dude, I just bought.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
This was the most wild Black Friday.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Can I tell you.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
I did not buy one thing at all until last night.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
You padding bought with one hour to go.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Actually it was forty seven minutes I saw. But this
is my personality type. I've told you this about it.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Everything I do, Like when I'm packing, if I have
exams at school or whatever. It was, I wait until
I can't wait anymore. And I don't know why I
did it. I was like, I'm not doing Black Friday.
It's too much.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
And then I was like forty seven minutes ago and
I was like online trying to buy stuff.

Speaker 4 (06:11):
It also was the most aggressive, Like I mean as
a brand, every single brand out there was putting so
much money behind like Facebook ads, and like it felt
like anytime you opened your emails there was like another
unsolicited reminder that Black Friday was on, and every single
brand had account I'm not poopooing it because we did it.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
So this is not criticism.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
I get it.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Yeah, I was leading the charge on this, but it
was unrelenting and I felt as though every day I caved.
But I kind of forgot about a lot of the
purchases I made because they were so impulsive and crazy.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
So all of a sudden, I was like alias may.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
Shoes, Oh yeah, I bought those three nights ago. Wow,
that shipping is so fast. I also got added ass
shoes forty percent off. I got a life persuction, not
like what's it called.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
I got APO last week. Look how thin.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
I gotta sell you a lot. I gotta sell your
life all red light thing. I'm never gonna use it.

Speaker 5 (07:02):
No, you're I know you well enough to know you'll
never get that. It's gonna come out of the pack
at once. And I don't even think you're gonna charge.

Speaker 7 (07:07):
It was so good.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
But you already last year, you already bought a cell
machine thing and you didn't use.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Don't use.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
So now you've got two things you're doing.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
But I got extra cell your light now after give
a birth.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
I feel like they play on the impulse control, of
which I have very little. And I also, this is
when you know it's fucked.

Speaker 7 (07:24):
It's when you.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
Get do you have the os post app and you
get notifications for it?

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I mute that.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
I don't know I'm getting notifications, and I'm like, I
don't even know. I couldn't tell you what I purchased
from that brand. But it's apparently being delivered.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
In my house.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
That's funny, I mean, And it's not funny any therapy.

Speaker 7 (07:42):
My bank account's fucked now.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Sorry.

Speaker 7 (07:45):
I nailed it, well done. That's impulse control.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
I did message Laura in the middle of her sale.
You probably forget. I was like, hey, I just had
a realization.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
I was like, probably not the time, but I really
want to get like a custom made ring that matches
bends from last year.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
In the middle of she did, she ignored it black.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
I did mean to write back to you.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Messaged me on Black Friday, the middle of Black Friday
to ask for a custom made ring and asked if
I could do it in two weeks.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
No, I said, I'm sure. I said, I'm sure. It
can't be done in two weeks. That's what I said.
I said, so I can get it in February.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
I was like, I will worry about this in a
few days time, Lord give me stress.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
It was also because you know, it's those things, and
I knew I was self aware enough to know.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
That I'm self aware enough, but I hit send it anyway.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
I did because it's one of those things I've been
thinking about and every time we leave at work, I'm like, damn, man,
I didn't mention the thing.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
So when it popped into my head. I was like,
I need to text it now or it's dead in
the water. Yeah, so anyway, have you got it? Yeah,
it's been three days. Where is it?

Speaker 4 (08:44):
I do want to say, though, a black Black Friday.
It is getting more insane every year, and I think
that a lot of people felt too overwhelmed to even purchase.
It was like purchase paralysis that like there was so
many brands screaming at them that they were like, oh,
I know I need to do something or get something
or be organized for Christmas. But unless you go in
with the plan now, you are going to get fucked
sideways by Facebook.

Speaker 7 (09:05):
As you know.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
I listened to an interesting episode of The Daily Oz
the other day about Black Friday and how it started,
and it was apparently, like some American I think, it
was like a baseball game, some type of sporting game,
and that's where the name came from.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
And then it was.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Quite controversial in Australia because of the horrible fires that
we had here that were also called black Friday. And
apparently there's this thing there is a term for it.
I can't remember what it is now, but basically where
these certain brands will actually inflate the price of their
goods the day before, so that the sale looks as though.

Speaker 7 (09:35):
They're getting discounts, but you're not.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
So some of it's really fake.

Speaker 7 (09:38):
And I felt very misled and I was like, damn it.
At work.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
A lot of.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
Brands will do there, but you know what, it depends
on what's happening. A lot of brands will do their
increases in their products a month beforehand, so that way
they can still discount them, but they're not discounting them
for like fifty sixty seventy percent off, but also gone
to the days of doing like a fifteen percent of sale.
If your sale isn't thirty percent off or more, I
don't want to hear about it.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Do you know what?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Sorry gone in the days of Black Friday. I have
been getting Black Friday sale ads for a month.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, I actually made something.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
It's like black It's like Black November or Black December
or something.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
The day in the week of sales is gone.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
The reason for that though, and I can say this
as a brand, we do one week, so we started
the Monday earlier, but a lot of brands started on
the first of November now.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
And they run it for a month.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Which I honestly just don't know how a brand could
even have the inventory to do that. But the reason
why they do it is because Facebook ads are so expensive.
So now during that week or during that day of
Black Friday, in order to get a purchase, you've got
to pay like six times what you would normally pay
for that ad. So just to get you to see
the ad, because it's so competitive and every brand's putting
ads out, you've got to pay so much more. So

(10:45):
people start earlier when the ads are less expensive, and
it allows them to be able to make the money
without spending so much money in order to advertise.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Everyone's going to try to top each.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Other, and it's going to start in like February.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Well, I speaking like a.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Barage of calls or ads or whatever. I was getting
a ton of miss calls last week. Not actual, it's
a lie.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I've been getting a fucked out of miss calls for
about three weeks.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Now, you've been getting them for about thirty two years.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
No, but I get a lot of sales calls right,
Like constantly I get sales calls. And the reason for
this is because there is a search engine out there
where my actual phone number is listed and I can't
get it off.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
I don't know why it's on there. I don't know
how it.

Speaker 4 (11:24):
Ended up on there, but for some reason it is
on there as like the contact US number for Tony May.
It's only one specific search engine. It's been there for
like fifteen and I can't no. I know how to
find I know exactly where it is. I see it
there all the time, and I can't remove it. So
every so often I get random calls from salespeople, and
now I screen them because I don't want my personal

(11:44):
number to be the number that people are calling when
I'm at the beach on a Tuesday with the kids
and it's like, Hello, this is Wendy from blah blah blah,
and I'm like, Wendy, it ain't the time, okay.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
So Lauri used to drive me to work and back
the amount of calls that she would get, and I
am still flabbergasted by how kind you are, because I
am I'm ruthless.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Tell everyone more.

Speaker 7 (12:04):
I just hang up.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, but if it's a custom these are real customer.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
No, there will be from a sales company. And Laura
is so lovely and she's like, oh, you know if
you could email me some details or blah blah blah
h we're not currently interested.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
And she'll talk back and forth.

Speaker 7 (12:17):
I am just hang up and block.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
If you can email me some details so I can
ignore you by email, that would be great.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, I prefer.

Speaker 5 (12:23):
I prefer to email you in peace, ignore you in
I prefer to block you by emails.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, but I I've kind of maybe, Keisha, I've gotten
less kind. I just don't.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
I don't answer now, Like now, when it's a no
number call, I just don't answer it because answer our calls.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
That's true. I'm busy, I'm postpartum. God damn it. How
long can I.

Speaker 7 (12:43):
Say that you're busy being kind to sales stuff?

Speaker 3 (12:47):
We have to call each other three times, and then
we have to es alway each other, and then we
have to double down saying I need to speak to
you and then better call them back.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
I need I need a missed call and a text
that says, hey, can you call me back? And then
you know it's real. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
So, anyway, I've been having lots of miss calls private number,
and I've been screening them. Anyway, the other day I
had six miscalls from a private number in like literally
a really small period of time, and I was like.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
I reckon, it's the same one. So finally I decided
to answer one of the calls.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
And I was kind of annoyed because this had been
going on for so long hours and yeah, I answered
it abruptly.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
I was like, I don't have time for your Black
Friday calls.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
She answered, she goes, fucking what are you?

Speaker 8 (13:23):
No.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
I was just like hello and she was like hello,
and I was like, yes, how can I help you?
And she was like, ah, this is.

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Susan from birth, Death and Marriages And I was like,
oh god, So my grandma recently passed away and we
literally just settled, like finalized all of her will and
her beneficiaries and its stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
And I was like, oh, something to do with that.
And I was like, oh gosh, ah, yes, so sorry.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
And I'm not the person to call, right, Like, if
there's an issue with my NaN's will, call my sister.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
She's the safe one in the family.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
You're also just not the admin, Galie. I'm not That's
what I mean, my Nan, You're like my Nando. Sorry, what.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Was I got to return my call?

Speaker 7 (14:02):
Shirley. She also thought I was calling from a private number.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
She's hit screen in the pew.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
No, my sister was put down as like the financial
person on the wheel because she's way more trustworthy than me.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
So I was like, why are you calling me Susan? Anyway?
She was like, do you have a daughter named Poppy?
And I was like, Poppy is she? Where is she?
I know she's on my chest with I was like,
she's good anyway.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
So it turns out that you know, when your baby's born,
you've got to do a registration for them.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
We did the registration and I did it online one night.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
You got to do it within six weeks of the
baby being born, so of course, two nights before we
were outside of that six week period. It was late
at night and I had that stroke of like, oh
my god, I've got to register Puppy. So I registered
her sweet Happy days, got the email confirmation and she goes, oh,
can you just confirm.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
Your daughter's birthday with me? And I had this blank moment.
I don't know Poppy's birthday. I don't know it. I
don't know what day I gave birth. I have to
look back through my camera role to find the day.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
I was going to say I could do that, because
you meant every time I get asked, I have to
look back through my camerall and check it's the twenty
fourth of September. But I can't say that confidently unless
I go back and look.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
So I was like, okay, just wait with me one second.
I'll go back and I'll flick through my cameraroll. So
I went back through and I.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
This lame is just like I was, literally and so
I was like, oh, it was the twenty fourth and
she goes, oh, yeah, of what month? And I was like, uh, September.
She was like, oh, so it's the twenty fourth September
and I was like yeah. She goes, okay, just letting
you know you actually feeled out that your child's born
on the twenty fourth of October. And I was like,
oh okay, well yeah, that's not right. It's clearly incorrect.

(15:34):
And she was like, okay, I'll change it.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
And she's like, can you just confirm the full name
and I was like, yep, it's Poppy Pearl Johnson.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
And she's like, oh, she has a middle name. And
I was like, yeah, she has a middle it's Pearl.
And she goes, oh, you didn't put that on the
form either, I just totally registered my baby incorrectly.

Speaker 7 (15:48):
Laura registered name Floppy Poppy.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Floppy Poppy was born in October Sloppy Poppy, she is
floppy wrong name, didn't give her a middle name, and
forgot her birth month. Thought she was a four.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Weeks pop stop.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
Seems really changed by the third don't they if.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
They really do?

Speaker 3 (16:06):
And I got not putting as much effort, She's like,
I'm fucking I was cool.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
Well, I I felt like I'm a little bit redeemed
in this, so I put it up on Facebook because
I had a moment where I was like, I know
that people do unhinged things in postpartum. I've already said
it left the car door open, but I was like,
what happened to you if you were the third child?

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Or what unhinged thing did you do if you're a
parent of a third child? Some of these made me laugh.
These were the comments on the post. My parents made
me hide in a cupboard so that they could hire
a four person minimoke on Magnetic Island.

Speaker 7 (16:32):
I would do that.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
That's fair, cost effected, that's fair.

Speaker 5 (16:36):
It's like when they make you live aout your age,
so you can get in for free, like literally two today.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
If you're five, No, you're not, get on your knees.
So okay. I went to enroll my daughter into daycare
when she was two years old, only to discover that
we actually never registered her birth at all.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
She's not even here.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
There must have been any vacks because you've got to
vaccinate your children.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
But like, that's a whole other things like that one's
this one's bad. I got to pick my third son
up from his first day of school.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I neglected child.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's normal, sad. Oh no, I'm child three. I haven't
forgotten many times.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
My husband put his own name on the birth registry.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's what happens when men get admin jobs.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
My son is five years old. There is yet to
be a single photo of him on the mantel piece.
But it's okay because he looks a lot like his
older brother. So I just tell him that the.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Baby photo is at him.

Speaker 7 (17:27):
Oh my god, you got that's gold.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
You know how last week we shared fun facts. I
don't know why I got served this video on Instagram
the other day. It was very interesting. Have you guys
heard of the Icelandic Naming Committee?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, you have to approved.

Speaker 5 (17:40):
They all have to do an you know this, So
you've got six months you basically, if you're a part
of Iceland, what would you be what national landing Icelandic?
If here icelanmed it, You've got six months to basically
like you either cannot give them a name, or you
can wait until the six month period and then you
give the Icelandic Naming Committee the name that you wish

(18:01):
to call your child and they can decide whether they
approve it or not. And apparently there's all these like
rules and regulations, so none of the babies have names
until they're six months old.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
So you could have picked sloppy poppy and they could
say nah.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
They would say no, Yeah, they would say no to
protect it.

Speaker 7 (18:14):
This video that I saw, I mean, I probably should
have saved it.

Speaker 5 (18:18):
But basically they determine whether it is in fitting with
other Icelandic names and with they think that it kind
of fits the culture.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I don't mind that.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
I mean, like to some extent, there are a lot
of names where not a lot of names, but there
are some names out there where I'm like, why why.

Speaker 7 (18:34):
Do that to your child? There are some that are
banned here.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, talking about their child, and you've forgotten my dad.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
And I'm probably gonna butcher this story if you listen
to it, and he does listen to it.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
But my dad's the sixth child and he's the youngest
of six and he's lucky he got a name. He's lucky.
Still here.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
He got sent off to boarding school when he was
like eleven, because I mean, this takes a turn. But
his dad passed away and there were too many kids
and grandma couldn't do it. So she's like, you're gonna
have to go to boarding school. But she needed him
to get in, and so she just changed his birthday.
And then Dad didn't really know until his whole life,
until he grew up and needed his birth certificate and
he just was like, oh, that's not my birthday older

(19:11):
or younger.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
They had to make that older to get in. No
one wants to wait to whatever it was, and so
Dad just had his birthday wrong. He's nearly his whole
life until he was like way way, way, way way older,
and Grandma's.

Speaker 6 (19:22):
Like, oh, that's right, I had to get you off
to school.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
So she just fucking made it up. So and time
was like okay, so am I young? Moor or older.
How old am I?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, he got life back, I guess.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
But it was a different time back then too, you
could do it.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
There was no way to like, like my dad's sixty eight,
so no one was easy.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well we don't actually know she's forty. Well, I, Laura,
this is good news for you as well.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
I went up to Crescent Heads north of Port mcroriy's
about five six hours drive and it was my cousin
Ellie's wedding. You guys met Ellie at my wedding, actually
Kisha and Laura, but she looked stonn and she looks
so beautiful. But she was head Toetewing Tony May, which
was really really nice.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
We love it. She's one of us.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
She's she's one one and I was like, Laura's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
She posted and do some hashtags and she's like back
Friday Finals.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
She had a Keisha twenty Friday. No, because she's Monday midnight.
It's a Runda walk situation.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
She paid for it, so yeah, shame, Yeah, that's a shame. Well,
something happened there that has never happened to me before.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
It was a real amalgamation wedding. So growing up, I
had a long term boyfriend. I was with him for
eight years. You guys know that my first ever boyfriend
from Port mcquarie. So he was at the wedding and
I haven't seen him in fifteen years because his best
friend married my cousin. So it was this really weird
and my cousin.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
Probably that was the most small town draw the diagram.
You don't have to draw that many lines.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
No, it gets more than diagram.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
So my cousin married a guy I grew up with
who was my partner's best friend. But my cousin also
got into radiology, so I worked with us.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
So this wedding was like my year twelve.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
It was like a reunion every one of my work
colleagues I ever worked with because we all worked together,
all of.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
My school friends, and then all of my ex partner's friends.
There was not it was two hundred people there. There's
not a person I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
It was wild, like every aspect of our lives were
back entwined.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
And because she's my cousin, all my family were there.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
So I had all my family, all my friends, all
my work friends, and all the people I grew up with.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
It was really weird.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Anyway, all of these people. I hadn't seen him like
fifteen twenty years, and I was like, oh, I want
to make sure I look good. I'm like, you know,
it's going to be really called. My ex boyfriend's gonna
be there. Who who cares? You know, twenty years and
I'm married pretty everyone cares.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I would care.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Everyone's like, what, how does it feel You're gonna run
into him? I was like running to who Oh.

Speaker 8 (21:34):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
You played that down. I don't even know who's talking about.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
No, she's got three layers of fake tan on leave
it or not that stop for him. But what my
point is, it was great, we caught up was great.
My point is I I got.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
This beautiful dress. It's not subtle. It was like a
beautiful blue and having little that you do is subtle.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yes, it wasn't just like a plain black dress or whatever.
I don't want to say stand out, but you could
see it a bright blue, bright red flowers, and it
had like a low bean neck and that had the
sea through bottom and it was it was beautiful. Walked
straight in and running to a girl who had the
exact dress on. I went to the wedding with this girl,
and we looked at each other, and so of course
I pushed her in the pool.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So yeah, want me gonna do But that's never happened
to me my whole life. Running to a girl in
the same dress, Well, I would hate.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
To be her, to be honest, because I think he
looked really really. I don't know what she looked like.
I haven't seen a photo of her, but I think
the really option in that situation is to make a
joke of it and take all of the like for
the twin photo.

Speaker 8 (22:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
The funniest thing.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
We walked in and looked at each other like smack
bag in each other's face, and we looked at each
other for a minute. I don't know her, and she goes,
this is gonna go on the podcast, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (22:46):
Recently we prepped to do an episode around going no
contact with a parent, and at the time when we
were talking about it between ourselves, it felt a little
bit too close to home and a little bit too pointed.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, and this was probably like four to six weeks ago.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
We've sat on a fully prepped episode and every week
we have said, like.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Hey, too close to home?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Should we Yeah, We're like, should we do this.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Like I've prepped, are we using it?

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Should we do the Estrangement episode? And we haven't done it.
And then obviously Oprah got wind of the fact that
we were going to drop this episode, and she's beat
us to it, and she's dropped an Estrangement podcast episode.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
If you guys haven't seen it, it's a really, really
amazing watch.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
So it's like an hour and ten minutes.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
It's called Oprah Explores the Rising trend of going no
contact with your family. It's had three point seven million
views at the time of when we're recording this, which
is pretty huge, and it's been shared quite a few
times on social media. Now, the reason why we wanted
to talk about this is because the statistics are really high.
It was said on the YouTube show on Oprah Show
that one third of Americans are no contact with a

(23:48):
family member, whether that's a parent or a sibling, and
it does seem to be something that is a rising
trend in our generation, adult children choosing to cut off
family members, citing the biggest reason to be to preserve
their mental health. But also it asked the question of
is this actually an act of like the greatest form
of self love, preserving your mental health, or is it

(24:08):
something that is truly destroying families. We've talked about this
a few times between us, and we seem to have
slightly different views on the reasons why someone might make
that great decision or grand decision to cut off a
family member. Sometimes it feels as though it might be
something that comes off the back of a really big
and monumental argument, like maybe there's one big thing that happens.

(24:28):
But I think for a lot of people who have
gone no contact with a family member, it's usually because
of long term, consistent behavior, consistent disappointment, and knowing that
no matter how you voice, or no matter how you
try and communicate your side of your experience, that it
will either be met with defensiveness or lack of acknowledgement,

(24:49):
or they're managing to be able to turn around the
story completely and invalidate your experience, and a lot of
people get to a point where they're like, I don't
want to do this anymore. If you haven't seen the
YouTube podcast of this, I'll play this little snippet to
give you context of what Oprah's talking about.

Speaker 8 (25:03):
Some experts believe that there's been a shift in how
younger generations protect their mental health and their boundaries or
have an expanded view of what is considered abuse, and
that has led to a silent epidemic. So social media
has millions of videos with the hashtag no contact from

(25:24):
adult children who say that their parent or their sibling
is toxic and they've had enough.

Speaker 7 (25:32):
So what is going on?

Speaker 5 (25:34):
I do wonder because they use the word trend in
the episode title of Oprah's podcast, and a part of
me is questioned, is it actually increasing or do we
just have more visibility about it? Because I remember when
Sam Fisher joined Life on Cut. When was that twenty
twenty two?

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Was it so, yeah, twenty twenty three maybe?

Speaker 5 (25:50):
Yeah, one of the two he spoke about the fact
that he was estranged from his father, and that was
the first time. We had so many messages from people
saying this episode meant everything to me because I am
a strange from one of my parents and I have
never heard it being spoken about this openly, like it
was quite a taboo thing. We've also done an episode

(26:10):
on Narcissistic Parents where one of our life has joined
us and spoke about the fact that she was no
contact with her mum. Recently we spoke with m Carrey.
She's a strange from her father, not by her choice.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
We also had Bridget Husthwaite, who doesn't speak to her twin.
And then even just this week, this last interview we.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Did with Militalyong.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
She's a strange from her father, but not as strange
from her mother, and her mother and father are still together,
so that is an even more complicated kind of a relationship.
But until we started having these conversations, I'd also never.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Heard of it.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
It was so foreign to me, the idea that there
are people out there that would walk away from their
family and just never talk to them again. And I
say that because I don't have that relationship with my family.
I have an incredible relationship with my family. I'm very,
very lucky that I have like a healthy, loving, stable
family home. But I do want to going back to

(27:01):
the word you just use, keche trend, I think it's
a little bit of a and a little bit of B.
I think it's remiss of us to say that now
that we have the visibility with social media and the
way people are talking about it more. Yes, of course,
more people coming out of the woodwork just telling their story.
But I do also wonder if it maybe plants ideas
in some people that might not necessarily have thought of

(27:22):
that before, which in turn leads to a trend.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
I have a real issue with it being called a
trend because I think it really minimizes the reasons as
to why an adult child would choose to go no contact.
And I mean, I know that there are and like
we've seen in this Oprah podcast, there are many different
reasons why people choose this and choose separation from their family.
But for anyone who has, it is usually because of

(27:45):
a long stemming relationship breakdown that they feel as though
they can't overcome. I don't know anyone, and I know
that this is a very subjective way of looking at it,
but I don't know anyone who's gone no contact with
a family member like a mum or a sibling, unless
there has been something that has been deeply, deeply hurtful
that has gone on for a long time. I don't
think people are treating their family relationships as frivolous and

(28:06):
just you know, deciding one day that it's for their
own limitations that they're just throwing that family relationship in
the bin.

Speaker 5 (28:13):
So I guess that kind of leads us to the
question that we wanted to talk about today, and it
is who is that fault for the estrangement? You know,
who is at fault for this no contact relationship? Is
it the fact that our parents' generation are unable to
self reflect, they're unable to take accountability for their shitty behavior,
They're unable to validate a child for the experiences that
they had growing up and into adulthood. Or is it

(28:34):
that our generation and potentially the generations younger than us,
have created this sense of like I have boundaries for everything,
and that's crossed a line, and I can't agree to
disagree with anything, and if I don't agree with you
on something, I'm cutting you off. You know, have we
been oversold what trauma looks like?

Speaker 4 (28:51):
I think it can be from both parts. I think
can be a little bit from Colin A and a
little bit from Colin B. I do think it's very
hard to move forward if you haven't been validated. If
you were telling someone the experience that you've had, or
you're trying to explain to someone how something deeply hurt
you for whatever reason that is, and you're told that
it shouldn't have and that you're wrong, which I think

(29:12):
is the experience of a lot of people. A lot
of adults who have decided to cut off their parents
is because they've felt invalidated and they've felt as though
that their experience has been told it's not true and
at least that And I know it's really hard to
approach this subject because I feel as though a lot
of it does come from a subjective feeling or a
subjective understanding of what people in my life have experienced.

(29:33):
I know, you guys know I've talked about this before,
Like Matt doesn't have a relationship with his dad. His
dad has never met our kids, and I don't want
to speak on behalf of him.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
But it took years to come to that decision.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
It wasn't an overnight one thing happened, but it was
a lack of accountability for behaviors that when something doesn't
get resolved or even acknowledged, it's like, Okay, well that happened,
and we're going to pretend like it never happened, and
you just get to be absolved of it and continue
on with shitty behavior that I have to accept into adulthood.
And I guess another question on that Kiche is, rather

(30:07):
than trying to place blame on one side or the other,
why is it that our family relationships, our parents and
our siblings are the one relationship where really anything can
kind of happen, and there's still an expectation that you'll
keep them in your life Because if you had a
toxic friend, you would cut them, you would put boundaries
in place, If you had a toxic romantic relationship, you
would cut them, you would put boundaries in place. If

(30:29):
you have a toxic workplace, all of those things apply.
But when it comes to a parent or it comes
to a sibling, there is a greater expectation that some
sort of relationship is maintained because of the role.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, and to that, I would say, and I found
this a really interesting discussion.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Point that one of the psychologists mentioned on.

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Oprah's podcast is that as a society, in a generation
we outgrow each other, we distance ourselves from the other
generation because of learned traits from that generation's time. So
the way we evolve with careers and relationships, politics, how
we view the world, what we find acceptable, what we
find toxic, is very different, and it is ingrained in

(31:07):
our parents, and it's very easy for us to say
that something is toxic that to them was completely normal.
And psychologist breaks that down saying we may be too
quick sometimes to dismiss our parents and say you haven't
accepted my boundaries. What you're doing is not okay, what
you're doing is toxic, and your parents are genuinely like, sorry, what, Like,

(31:31):
I've given you the best life possible. I've done everything
right by you, and they truly believe that because of
their time that was right, and of our time it's not.
And they are not being served the same things on
social media that we are. They are not doing the
same studies that we are. Now, I'm not defending this
is a very blanket statement. I'm not defending relationships that

(31:53):
are violent or there are very toxic relationships. Occasionally, I
think we are too quick, and I say this in relationships.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Too, And this is a generational thing.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
We are very quick to throw in the towel, where
our parents' generation was not, so they would work through things,
whereas we're like nap washing my hands of that.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'm out. I'm going to move on because I can,
and I think we need to maybe be a little bit.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
More hyper aware of those try to work through those
before we necessarily throw a towel in. And that is
coming from somebody that has never had to do it.
I'm openly going to say that. But I do find
it interesting that in this room right now, there's four
of us, and each person in this room has direct
relationship with somebody that has been a strange from someone
in the family.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Like that's a high statistic.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
I think there was a really big difference, particularly between
this generations that we're talking about, in terms of like
the expectation of respect. I think our parents were just
you had to respect your parents, you had to honor them,
and they were very much to sweep everything under the
rug style of culture, whereas I think we are almost
the polar opposite. We are like we air all of

(32:55):
our dirty laundry. I mean, we talk about it on
podcasts for God's sake, where a lot more emotionally vulnerable,
and we expect that there will be accountability taken for actions.
And there are other layers to add into this as well.
You think about, you know, alcoholics and the fact that
they're unreliable narrators of stories, and like everyone in a
family will experience the exact same event in different ways,

(33:17):
and you will take away different things. And this has
even happened within my own family of experiences that we
had growing up that my brother and I have almost
conflicting memories of, and that has been something that's been
quite hard for us to kind of get over. And
I think there's also, like, Laura, I really agree with
the point that you made of I think so much
of this could be solved. And I'm saying solved as in, like,

(33:41):
the relationships could at least begin to repair if each
person is able to come to the table with a
little bit of self reflection and accountability.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
It's so hard because I think that's too easy to say,
if only we could communicate better, then the relationships would work.
Of course, that's the literally the fucking solvent for any
relationship breakdown. I think if you've never been in the
situation of going no contact with a parent because you
had an objectively great childhood and you don't have a
long stemming resentment and unhealed everything and blah blah blah, like,

(34:11):
I think it's really hard to see.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
How important validation can be.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
I say this, and I guess, like this is probably
the only personal thing I want to add, because I
have conflicting feelings about all this myself. I have never
been caught in no contact with my parents at all,
but I definitely had reduced contact with my dad for
a long time, and that was because he moved away
when we were young.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
He wasn't aware of a lot of things.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
That were going on in our household with my mum
and my stepdad, and I felt really resentful that he
didn't protect us more. And then when you know, years later,
when he was remarried and there were issues with his
marriage there, like he prioritized other things, he would have
a different version. I have no doubt, I have absolutely
no doubt that my dad's perception of what happened in
that fifteen years is very different to my perception. But

(34:57):
you know what, it's kind of and I know that
this probably really harsh way of saying it, it's kind
of irrelevant what his perception is if he's not going
to listen to what my lived experience was. And the
reason why we have a good relationship now is because
at some point, without having to sit down and have
like the big conversation, I don't think my.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Dad and I have.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
Ever, He's not the type of person you can sit
down with and have a big conversation with. He's not
an emotions person. But over the years we've had a
lot of micro conversations. One of them was around his drinking.
I didn't like his drinking my dad. Now he took
that on board, which I was like, so remarkably impressed by,
and he started only drinking light beer, and then he
reduced the amount of light beer he drinks, and now

(35:36):
he barely drinks at all, and that's been a huge
character change for him. And then also around when I
did speak to him finally about some stuff that went,
you know, happened in our childhood, he was like, I
wish i'd known, and I wish I'd been there, and
I'm sorry I wasn't. And having that validation so you needed.
I could cry now thinking about it, because it wasn't groundbreaking,

(35:57):
it didn't change my life, but at at least valid
dated that my experience of my childhood in some instances
was really hard. And had he not said that, had
he been defensive or told me he'd done the best
he could at the time, or he'd given me everything
he could financially, we would not have a relationship at all,
but we do and the other thing as well. And
I really like sometimes I probably this Christmas will sit

(36:20):
down and tell him how proud I am of him.
But even though I am the one who is less
proactive in our relationship, I don't send as many texts,
I don't send as many calls. He wants to be
a granddad, and he tries so fucking hard. He messages
every other day regardless of whether he gets a reply
or not. Photos of the flowers from his garden, things

(36:41):
that he thinks my girls might like, because he wants
to be He's coming down again at Christmas time to
spend time with them. And I think you can't have
a relationship unless you're proactive. And there are a lot
of parents out there who are grown ups. And I
sorry when I say parents, I mean like people our
age who now have children and they've decided, you know what,
I don't just have to protect myself, but I have
to protect the well being of my children. And I

(37:03):
don't want someone who isn't reliable in their life. And
I think, yes, we have been given a lot of
therapy speak, Yes we've listened to the podcast, and we've
done a lot of self work, but for a lot
of people, life is more harmonious when some of those
relationships have gone to no contact or have been reduced down.
And I just don't want anyone who's decided to go

(37:23):
no contact to feel vilified and feel as though they
didn't try.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
You know, I think that that's actually the nail in
the head. It is so exhausting being the only one
who takes emotional accountability within a relationship. And I actually
do think that our parents' generation have quite a big
problem with this, the parentification of our parents in my.

Speaker 7 (37:44):
Friendship circles experience.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
And this could be super subjective, but I find it
really frustrating that so many conversations I have with my
friends are like, oh, you know, I've got to make
the effort here and I've got to repair this. I've
got this obligation, but there doesn't seem to be a
two way street at all, And so that is something
that I have a big problem with. And one of
the experts in Oprah's podcast Nedra Glovertore, but she wrote

(38:06):
a book about set boundaries find peace, and she also said,
you know that we often will say, our parents can
only do what they can with the tools that they
were taught, and you know, a lot of them are
parenting in the way that they were parented. But she
also brought up a really good perspective of the fact
that we have access to a lot more information now
because of social media, but so do they, So you know,

(38:27):
where is their kind of desire to take on more information.
I really do think that there is this big difference
in the way that we are able to self reflect,
and I think that that is what is at the
core of why so many people end up in a
strange relationships because they're not able to mend the conflict
that happens. I look at my mom, for example.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
My mom is the most like a loving mom that
is always there for us, but not in a way
you would think she is not open with her emotion Ever,
she's not physically affectionate.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
She never was.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
She cleans the house, she cooked out dinner, she took
us to sport. We always had food and washing and
anything we wanted.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
But the I guess the emotional connection was never there
and is never there.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
We very rarely, I don't want to say, we don't
say we love each other we do, but like my
dad will call me every day and say he loves me. Mum,
I know absolutely does, but she cannot communicate in that way.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
And I just know that's how she is from her generation.
She's one of four her mum, my nana has one arm.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
And I say that because my mum's dad walked out
on them when they were little kids. And my nana
is fucking amazing. She raised like four kids alone at
twenty years old with one arm. She lost her arm topolio.
And that is so ingrained in who my mum is
because it's all she knew. And so that's how she communicates.
And whilst I very easily could say emotionally neglect, for

(39:54):
I very easily could say that, but I don't because
I take all of that into consideration and I and
again that's my my example of it.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
I have a question though, for you, in terms of
your relationship rit even though you say that she wasn't
very like emotionally driven or.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
She invested, because I think that that's the difference.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
You can be not emotionally soft and connected and be
like the huggy kind of parent, but you can be invested.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
You can I know your friend's names.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
I know, Oh yeah, it's not very invested.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
In what you like.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
I know who you are as a person. Everyone's experience
of how they were parented is so different. It's so
so different. And I think everyone's definition of what is
traumatic is different now as well. Everyone's definition of what
is abusive is different, of what is toxic is different.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
There is no black and white to this.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
But I also reckon that you would.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
You would definitely if you went down a rabbit hole
and TikTok of emotional neglect. There would be videos about
if your mum never gave you a hug, that's abuse.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
You know.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
There is the other end of this as well, that
is just so magnified and exaggerated. Where these behaviors that
you've said the reason she's not a soft hugger is
because she was brought up really pragmatically and.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
That's who she is.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
There would be content that exists that would tell you
that that was worthwhile cutting her off for.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
And that is my point.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
And I do wonder if we're too quick to go
down that path. And I even say that, and I
hope my mom doesn't listen to and feel bad because
my love no but for an example, my mum is
also of the generation if we were unpacking something emotionally,
she wouldn't even realize that this has an effect, but
she would be like, well, we just have to get
on with it, don't we, because that's all she knew
was to get on with it. And you would talk

(41:30):
to her about it, you'd be like, well, you don't
really get on with it these days, Mom, like like
you could do this, all this, all this we talk
about our feelings now our mom solve things, we unpack them.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
But she is therapy.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
She's like, what a waste of time?

Speaker 3 (41:41):
And she's like, you just have to get on with it,
because that's what their generation did. And so if I
didn't give my parents the slightest bit of leeway for
how they were brought up, and I think what I'm
trying to say is with my mum, and I almost
feel like, did I just make her sound really bad?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
But it was amazing.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Everyone loves differently and presents differently in the world, and
like the way that she loves us looks different to
the way Dad loves us, but it's not different at
its core. The love and protection and support is the same.
But they just present differently, and I think that that
is just something that individual to them.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
It's why it's.

Speaker 5 (42:15):
Important, Like, I mean, there's going to be lots of
people listening to this who aren't no contact with their family,
Like they still have contact, but.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
They wish in a perfect world they could be Like.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
There's so many versions of what this looks like in relationships,
But I think it's important that that's why we don't
abuse therapy talk, right, Like, you might know that you
have a parent who is emotionally immature. The worst thing
that you could possibly do is sit down with them
and tell them that they're emotionally immature. The only thing
you're going to get back from that is defensiveness and
is hurt and upset and them being probably outraged by

(42:46):
it because there is no relationship. Like if someone came
to me and said, Laura, you are emotionally immature, I
would be offended and I probably would be defensive because
that type of conversation doesn't move it forward in any way.
I don't think using therapy talk as a way of
explaining your boundaries or why you feel a certain way
is going to be productive at all in fixing a relationship.

(43:09):
Trying to have a conversation potentially about the reasons why
you feel a certain way might help it. But at
the same time, like everyone knows what they're you've had
thirty years or forty years or twenty years experience of
your parents, you know most of the time how these
conversations are going to go. There is sometimes the exception,
and there is sometimes pleasant surprises, Like I say, with
my dad, I was so pleasantly surprised by how much

(43:32):
he changed because having us in his life is his priority.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Interestingly, Laura, like apart from you and when we would
talk about, you know, Matt's relationship with his dad. I
had never really come across estrangement until I met Ben,
and so Ben and I had a lot of trouble
understanding this with Ben and we I don't want to
say we argued about it, but we probably sort of
did a little bit in the first year of our relationship,
coming from my naivity and like lack of understanding. He

(43:59):
has been ste from his father since he was about
fifteen years old. I think he's spoken to him once
or twice. When his grandpa and his father's dad was
passing away. It was his grandfather's wish to have them together.
So Ben showed up and I could not get my
head around that idea.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
I was like, how can you just not speak to
your dad? He's your dad, he raised you for.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Fifteen years, he did all these things. And Ben was like,
life is just easier without it. He's not the person
that I need or want in my life. And I
almost pushed a little bit too far in that time,
saying like, how do you know if you haven't spoken
to him in seventeen years? Like nineteen years now, I'm like,
how do you know? Like have you ever got his
started the story? Is it worth you meeting up and

(44:41):
talking to him? What if he died tomorrow? Would you
be devastated? And it got to the point where Ben
was like, you don't get it because you have a
great relationship, but you need to understand for me, my
life has been markedly different and markedly better since I
cut him off. And that was a real learning curve
for me of being like, oh, okay, cool, I've just
got to let you do what you've got to do.
You've made the choice, an educated choice, in your own relationship.

(45:03):
But it was really, really hard to understand that anyone
could just walk away and have a better life.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
I put up on socials and we did a poll
on my funk cut. I also did one personally, but
there was quite a few of you guys who messaged
around your personal experiences as to why you'd cut off.
I didn't ask for that, but so many of you
shared the reasons why, all the things and what has
happened in your life that have gotten you to the point.
And something that I was a recurring theme in this

(45:29):
is that a lot of people had done the real
hurt whilst they were trying to repair the relationship while
they were still in it. So a lot of people
had come to this almost breaking point where they were
like I am done, and I am emotionally cut off
from wanting to try anymore. So it feels cold and
it feels final, But it's because it's almost like when
you do the breaking up, but you're still in the relationship.

(45:50):
So when it comes to breaking up, you're just like
cold and done. And I think that that's why no
contact can feel so incredibly severe, because it doesn't come
with any repair work after the point.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
It's like you've done, done, done, tried, tried, tried, tried, tried.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
See I'm fucking over it right for a lot of people,
But I wanted to read a couple of them out
to you because some of them actually came as a
real surprise to me. This person wrote, I stopped talking
to my dad for two years because he was late
to my wedding to walk me down the aisle, no
reason for it. Didn't call to say anything, didn't tell
me he was running late. He didn't apologize that. He
also didn't get me a wedding card or anything to

(46:22):
say congratulations. We've come a long way since that day,
but it took me two years to get over that event.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
I liked that one. They thought it was different to
a lot of the others where they were like repeated behavior.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
This one said, my mom just up and left a
few years ago. She believes that since she has done
thirty years of being our mom, she has simply finished
and doesn't want to be one anymore. I've tried everything
and it goes nowhere. She doesn't believe that she has
done anything wrong. She gave us the best life as
far as she is concerned. My father was the one
who went no contact with me after I asked him

(46:53):
to tell me the truth about changing my grandmother's will.
I clearly told him I didn't want any money. I
just wanted honesty. He left all all of my grandmother's
jewelry to his then wife, who hated my grandmother. The
wife has since left him and she has all of
my grandmother's jewelry. He went no contact with me, stating
that his pride had been hurt and has been fifteen
years since he spoke to me.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
That's an unusual one.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
The last one I wanted to share was this. I
could chat about this all day. Just because your family
doesn't mean that you were entitled to my time or
my energy. I prefer my friend's company over my famili's,
which to me. I read that and I thought that
felt really cold. But without context, anything can feel cold.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
One hundred percent. Everything needs context. But I do think
it's important. We haven't touched on it yet, just to
say that. In Oprah's podcast, the conversation wasn't just about
children that had gone to contact with their parents. It
was also about parents that had chosen to go no
contact with their children.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
This can work two ways.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Absolutely Unfortunately, sometimes it can work the way of one
of the listeners that you.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
Just read out.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
That might feel a bit fucking unnecessary, like I've done
my job, I'm out.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
But it can come for other reasons too. There are
plenty of children that can also be toxic to their parents.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
And one lady on a podcast said that her son
was awful by all accounts, and he was quite violent
and he was aggressive, and she was like, I don't
need you.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
And he was grown, so he was an adult child.
She didn't go and leave a five year.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
He'd been abusive since he was fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
So that's also fine. That is so fine, Like this
works two ways.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
Speaking of two ways, I guess like to leave this
and a question that I would love for us to
kind of unpack a little bit is who do you
think is the most responsible? Do you think that a
parent always holds a slightly higher responsibility to maintain a
relationship even when a child is an adult, or do
you think that once you become an adult, it is
equal responsibility to contribute to that relationship.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
I went into a deep dive on this exact question
last night, and most of the psychologists that I looked
into had said that the table's turn once a child
becomes an adult. It becomes even and until the child
is an adult, it's the adult's responsibility.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
It's so interesting because I know that this goes against
what a lot of the therapy's talk says, and even what
you just said, Britt, there's a part of me that
does feel that, like, no matter what age, your parent
is still your parent, and your parents still parents you
in some ways, like everyone's going to have a different
take on their I was speaking to Ellie about this,
Matt's mum who lives with us, and she had the

(49:14):
opposite view.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
She has an incredible relationship with her kids and she
tries so high.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
I see her try every day to maintain that relationship,
and I asked her, like, what's her take on it,
and she said, I am the parent. I will always
be responsible for my relationship with my kids. I will
always be responsible to ensure that I have a close
relationship with them. And I was like, you know what,
that's why you do because you've taken the responsibility to

(49:40):
do so. I know it's not and it shouldn't be
your responsibility your whole life, but the reason why you're
so close to every child, five children, is because every
day you proactively ensure that that relationship is. And I
guess at the end of the day when I think
about my own kids, and it's far too early to
even say what I'm going to be like in thirty
years time. But I hope that if Marley came to

(50:01):
me when she's thirty five and she said, actually, Mum,
you fucking worked too much and I felt like I
didn't get X y Z from you, or whatever is
her grievance with the way that I parented, I hope
that I have enough self reflection that can listen to
episodes like this and be like, I'm sorry if I
didn't meet you where you needed to be met at
that time, even if it doesn't reflect my reality. I

(50:24):
hope that I have the self awareness to be able
to say, what can I do so that our relationship
now can be as.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Good as it can possibly be.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Yeah, but then, how tempting would it be because this
is how I would feel, and this is coming back
to what we said at the start, How tempting would
it be to be like, man, I worked my ass
off to give you the life that you had, because
that's what you would.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Find a beach house.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Goddamn it, That's what I mean. And that is the problem.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
That's the problem where parents, where people are like, you're
not listening to what I'm saying, and the parents are like,
I'm actually so upset that I gave up everything to
work so hard to give them that, and now they're
saying it wasn't enough, Like I can understand why when
that is the situation. That's what parents want to say
straight off the bat, is like, I did that for.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
You, But then you're making it about yourself.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
But that's my point.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
It's no longer about that child's experience.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yes, because they can coexist.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
I truly believe that, because that child's experience is their experience,
because it's the truth. But the truth was not because
of neglect. The truth was because I did it because
I loved you so much I wanted to give it
to you. So both people are having an experience that
is true to themselves that looks different to the other party.

Speaker 5 (51:30):
I think that you've actually outlined exactly what I think
is the one thing that is able to mend damaged
relationships so that estrangement doesn't result, and it's validation of
each other's experiences. It doesn't have to be that you
agree with them it just has to be that I
acknowledge that that is how you felt in that experience,

(51:50):
and then people can move forward.

Speaker 7 (51:51):
And I think without.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
That that is why a lot of kids get.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
To the point where they're like, I can't keep on
asking and hope for the fact that you're going to
validate my reality because you keep on shutting it down,
and I'm not going to be putting myself through this
emotional turmoil anymore.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
I just want to leave this conversation by saying, like,
if you are someone who has gone no contact with
your family member, I understand and I deeply believe and
from everything I have seen that you have your reasons
to do so, and I don't want you to feel
in any way that those reasons have been minimized. Yeah,
in this conversation that we're having, and also let us
know if you have your own unique.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Experience as to why you've chosen this.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
We would love to garner and get as much information
on this as possible because it is a rising conversation.
It is something that so many of us experience. We
talk about relationships of all shapes and sizes, romantic relationships, friendships,
something we've spoken about from time to time, but haven't
deep dived as frequently or as much on is this.
And it's very evident that almost everyone is affected by

(52:52):
it in some way, whether it's you with your own
family or a friend and their family. You will know
someone who has gone no contact with a family member.
All right, guys, it is time for suck and sweet.
The highlight in the low light of the week. My
suck for the week is that I was about to
say both kids, but I have three. Two of my
three kids have been sick. Lola had gastro, then Molly
had some sort of cold sickness, and then I think

(53:14):
Poppy is getting it, and then last night I had
about it as well.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
So whoo, it's all been happening in my household. It's
just like the never ending daycare nose. Yeah, they're never
not running daycare nose. Is what's happening in my house
at the moment. Lola is going to primary school next year,
and so my sweet from the week is just like
this week, she had her graduation from daycare, and so
she had to wear a little graduation cape and she
had a little graduation hat and they sang a song

(53:38):
about boundaries and no doubt she's going to nack those
on me when I'm grown up and.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
A whole percent. She'll be like, you fucked me up.

Speaker 8 (53:44):
Mum.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
She says, please stop. I don't like that. I'm feeling uncomfortable.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
I need more space.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Sorry, that's your graduation night around me.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Don't take your personally. It's just a boundery. It's just
a bound real. Yeah, that's her graduations on the days of.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Just having yeah day, your laugh. Why can't we just
let them live aloneeah?

Speaker 4 (54:07):
And Marli's was like my hat and backpack uniform and
shiny shoes, but lole listening about boundaries twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Is tell me much.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Sorry, learn the boundaries, but let them celebrate their graduation anyway.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
That is my sweet. It was very very cute boundaries
and all. Now, anytime I try and touch her, she says,
it's just a boundary and I.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Can have a hug. She's like, I don't like that.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Boundary.

Speaker 8 (54:27):
It's just.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
So now, yeah, exactly. Now, I'll be like how are you,
And she'd be like I'm uncomfortable and I'm like about oh,
She's like, because you won't let me have a whete
bar And I'm like fuck see too much for me.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's trauma too much for me.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I am traumatizing them.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
My second suite are around the same thing.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
My stuck of the week is I went up to
the wedding which was six hours away, and when I
was leaving the next day.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Someone wore the same dress as me.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
No, that's not the suck. When I was leaving the
next day.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
It's a big drive, like I said, So I had
all my shit that I was putting in the car,
stopped at a cafe to get food, and I had drinks,
like five different kinds of drinks.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
I got like a co because I knew that in
four hours i'd want it. But then I got my
coffee hot and cold.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
But then I needed more substance, so I got a
banana smoothie with crots.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
At all in the car.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Everything made it to the car except the banana SMOOTHI,
which I put on the roof because I had my
hands full, so I put stuff on the roof of
the car, which is why I got your stuff off
the car today, Laura, because I was like, well, I
don't want you.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
To drive off with it. But I put on the car.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
Everything made it the coffees and everything drove off and
the banana smoothie did not make it. We've all been there, Yeah,
but it's worse banana smoothies.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Do you know what that?

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Do you know what that looks like as it goes
down your car in the sun. And then my suite
was the fact that I went to my cousin's wedding,
which was beautiful and all my family and friends were
there watching her get married, like it's she's been my
little my little couzy, like my whole life. So it's
it was really a really beautiful moment. Seeing her marry
someone that I've also known my whole life. Was weird
because I went up to him and I was like,

(55:51):
we went to school together. I was like, weird that
you're in my family now, but like welcome. But yeah,
So it was a it was a beautiful, wholesome kind
of weekend small town vibes.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yeah, but that's my suck, that's my well. Guys.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
That is it from us.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Join the discussion on our instagram at lafe on cut podcast,
and you can also watch the YouTube.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Actually, we'll link everything about Oprah's YouTube.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
It's very easy to find if you want to Google it,
but we'll link, Oprah, you will link it all the
show notes and also you can go and watch our
entire episodes all on YouTube as well.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
And you know the drill Tea Mumpy dot Tete dot
Tea friends and shares the love because we love love