Jonah Hill's leaked texts and purpose anxiety with Dr Sabina Read

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life un Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose
lands were never seeded. We pay our respects to their
elders past and present.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back

(00:34):
to another episode of Life on Patna. I'm pretty holy dully,
it has been a morning.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
It has been. I mean, we always say we driving chaos.
We always say how chaotic life is. Today was probably
the most chaotic it's been in as long as I
can remember.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'll tell you why things are going wrong. It's because
producer Keisha is still in Europe sucking down.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
After all spirits. Oh I think you're gonna say sucking
someone else.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
She's probably tatter it.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
She is down in opp Rol Spirits. She's there for
another week and she's left us to our own devices. Now,
we for over two years by ourselves, once upon a time.
God knows how we did that. You know why? Because
it was simple. You know the old kiss saying keep
it simple stupid? You remember that from school?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
With life, they're like, just kiss it, keep it simple, stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I don't think anyone said it as like a life
mottol but like I did sure my entire life.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I thought your life model was risk for there it was,
and then it was kiss, which is why risk it for.
The biscuit was mine. They're playing to each other. But
it was so easy for us because we were at home.
We didn't have fancy equipment. We didn't have like all
these cameras and like zoom recordings and desks. We didn't
have desks, we didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Have pants, We literally had nothing, and it was easier
than what it is now between Britain and I we're
both so technologically challenged that in order to be able
to record today's episode, they have everything here like we're
at the.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Podcasting studio, I guess you'd call it. But we brought
our own equipment because we don't know how to use
the equipment here.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
I came with my suitcase.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I brought a suitcase.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
It still has like my virgin stickert attached to it.
I put all the equipment in it and I wheeled
it on in. We set it all up. Let's not
like talk ourselves down too much.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
The floor is on lava, but everything is fine.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
The floor is on lava.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
The floor is lava.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
We're back from your honeymoon, not honeymoon.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Guys went to Fiji for five days. I'm sure we
probably knew that if you listened to the last week's
episode or saw it on the socials.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Did you ask him if they wanted to see it
on socials?

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I didn't. I didn't say, hey, guys, does anyone want
to see my honeymoon on socials? I just made you.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
All view it.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
But what I would like to say is taking your
own children along with your sister's children and your sister
and her husband on your honeymoon. I think it makes
it less of a honeymoon and just a holiday with family.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Well it's not ideal, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't you say that Matt thought he was going on
a honeymoon. He didn't really know that you'd invited the
rest of.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
The No, no, no, no, he knew, he knew. Alicia
thought it was her fortieth birthday present. That was a
different thought. We were going to celebrate her fortieth and
then I was like, hey, I know you're turning forty,
but it is also our honeymoon. So I just combined
and joined things. Where we stayed had the best freaking
kids club, Like it was amazing, and I expected that
the girls were going to get there and then not
want to go to kids club and complains they wanted

(03:16):
to be with us. They woke up every morning and
they ran out the door. They were like, well, going
to kids clubs on their own as they didn't want
a bar of us until it came to like four
o'clock in the afternoon. And it was possibly the best
holiday I think I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
So did they? Kids club every day?

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Kids club every day?

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Man?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
They made T shirts. We like out making grass skirts,
they were collecting eggs. It was their holiday. We just
paid for it.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
It was an expensive honeymoon, wasn't it. It was a
whole family.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, a fair. That's what happens when you have children,
and especially when your youngest one is over to and
you got to buy them a ticket. Laula didn't sit
on that fucking seat for one second. When do you
have to start paying for a kid at one, two two? Yeah,
and then it's full price at ever. Yeah. There's no
intermission phase where they're like, oh, that kid's too but
they don't take up that much of the seed, so
let's just charge them a quarter of the price.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Do you still get like when you walk onto the
plane and you've got, oh your shit, and you've got
two kids and one't Lola's. We know, Lola's wild little
potato head. Do you still get like the subtle looks
from people down the corridor being like, oh fuck, please
don't sit next to me, Please don't sit next to me.
Like do you feel down the corridor?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's it's kind of okay when you fly to somewhere
like Fiji, because I feel like majority of the people
who are flying they have children.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, because they're kids club are known worldwide. I need
you get known for kids clubs.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
They're known for kids clubs. And also the Fijian people
are so beautifully lovely and they are they are like
born to be parents, Like they are just the kindest,
most patient and lovely people. And so everybody takes their
children there and are like, hey, have my kids for
a week. Here they are, and so we offload them.
The one thing though, it did happen to me speaking
of romantic honeymoons, is the curse, my tropical holiday curse.

(04:53):
What's that hit me again?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
I don't know if that's a real thing.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Isn't every time I go on a tropical holiday and
you know this bread. Basically, we flew in to Nadi.
We got on a little boat that took us over
to where we were staying. The second the second my
foot touch land, I was like, you've got to be
kidding me. Period.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
I was about to say diarrhea rain or u TI
rain rain in my pants?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Period, blood rain. The second flood, it was a blood flat.
The gates opened, the damn flooded honeymoon blood flood. That's
exactly what happened. I took the.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Honeymoon blood flood. Shall hear me known from here? For
that you have the curse of the honeymoon blood plot.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I took one step onto the island and I was like, oh,
I didn't even pack or in a remote island somewhere,
I had no tampoons.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Would you not pack a tampon?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because I got them a week early? Didn't I It's
literally like my body was like, oh, you're going on
a honeymoon, cool.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
No sex for you?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Period? We're really going to fuck Matt's stream side.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
You can still do period section.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
He is not a stand of it, he lied once
on the podcast. I remember once we interviewed him and
he said he doesn't mind. He was like, oh, I'm
all four period sex. And then as soon as I
actually had them, and I'm like, do we call them
with them? I don't know when they're actually here, and
I'm like, hey, baby, let's get jigg they show up. Yeah,
they came. Anyway, well she she arrived.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
They came. You didn't.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
They came and I did not. That's definitely the moral
of the story. But anyway, apart from that, we had
a beautiful honeymoon. It was a great time. Matt swam
many laps underwater. I saw them.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's all I saw of the holiday was just matt'
sween underwater pretty much all I like. It's like the kids,
they're like, mum.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Watch me.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
That was like what Matt was doing. So what was
the highlight?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Laying on my back. I woke up in the morning,
I went to the breakfast buffet, I shipped my kids
off to kids club, and then I went to the gym,
and then I laid by the pool And that was
pretty much my entire day.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
But that's what a holiday should be, or what you're
describing is that you were on a holiday. You're like,
believe it or not, you've probably never done that before.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, no, The problem is is that once you have children,
you just parent in a new location. That's all you do.
So it's their holiday and you just chaperone them on it,
and kids club is a game changer. And prior to
this holiday, my kids have been too young for kids Club,
like Lola has a little melon head, it has been
too little. And this is the first time that genuinely
she got up every morning and she was like, yeah,
kid club and she ran out the door.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
So does that mean the only holiday you're ever going
to do again is back to Fiji, back to the
kids club.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
We're only ever going to places with kids club from
now on.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Imagine Europe or something that kids club couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Could you need to go to kids club? I don't
care about your posatana. I don't want to go and
sit on a beach with my children around there.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
We did that Mali right when she was like.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
She was a fotis a little blob. She was literally
she'd just come out of me and she was still
a fetus.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Why did you do that? As a new you just
like fuck it?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, this is a misconception. Traveling with newborn babies is
actually completely fine traveling with like a three month old
baby because they just sleep all the time. So we
went to Europe when Maley was only three months old.
We had the most amazing trip, but once they hit
about four months, five months, six months, goes rapidly downhill.
We are not going back to Europe until they're seventeen.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, and then they can pay for themselves.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, how that's why you send them over there. Do
you know what? One thing did happen to me though,
which I thought I had my own little accidentally unfiltered moment.
I was. So we went out for the dinner this
one night and there was a couple who we met,
and they were very proper. They were very lovely, but
they had a proper domestic sitting next to us at
the table. But started off with a little bickering fight
between the two of them.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
How old are we talking?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
They were probably in their forties. Nationality yeah Aussie's, Like
I'm pretty sure they were from Sydney. Anyway, they were
having a little bit of a bickering fight and then
it turned into him being like I could overhear it.
It was so it was so inappropriately loud for how
close we were sitting to each other. He was saying,
you know, I'm we're not doing this shit again, Like
I can't believe we're going to rehash this. So they

(08:41):
were having a full on argument and then she sat
pretty quiet for the rest of the dinner. And it
was awkward because we'd just met and like we'd had
a really nice chat and then it was kind of like,
oh God, I wonder what's going on there.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
But it is awkward when also you know that they
know that, you know, that's exactly yeah, when everyone in
the situation knows.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
So the next morning I get to break and they're there.
They're sitting at the table, rub it lecture us. No, no,
it's a different restaurants, are sitting right there, and we
sat down next to them. I was like, oh, it's
a bit awkward, you know, like we heard them having
a fight. They know that we heard them having a fight.
They were looking at us. We didn't say we did
like some like cordial like is that what's good? We
were like hellos, you know anyway down were like, hi,
how are you if? It is it cordial like the

(09:19):
drink or is it cordial.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
It's said the same, but it's spelled it ha ha.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So we sat at breakfast and had some cordial and
then said hello and then cordialed, and then we cordialed,
so we said a low exchanged like a little bit
of you know, pleasantries. And then I was like feeding
Lala and they were staring at us, and I was like,
this is weird. But then they kept staring at us
and I and I said to my must be really
awkward for them because we heard them having that fight
last night. And then I'm feeding Alla her wheatbits. And

(09:46):
this goes on for a good fifteen minutes, no exaggeration,
and then I look up again and they're still looking
at me intermittently like they're back to their breakfast. And
then they look up and stare at me oddly, and
then they look back down and like.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
When you're seventeen, you would have said take.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
A picture at a last literally give it simple, stupid.
So we get to a point where I'm like, this
is very They're making this very uncomfortable now, like what's like,
what's the problem anyway, I just do a bit of
a face, like like a what's like, what's your problem face? Yeah,
that's your problem face.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, I know, the one like little eyebrow raised. I
haven't had enough bowtox to freeze.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
It yet, just a little like, hey, I've got some
use of my forehead again. And he just looks down
and then looks back up, and I was like, what
are they doing? And I looked down my entire tit,
the whole left tit. I was wearing a button up
shirt and my entire left tit was just sitting out
of my shirt half. It was like hovering a centimeter
above Lola's weet my knee. Yeah. I had been sitting

(10:43):
there at breakfast the whole time with my button up
shirt done up and just one entire tit which I
wasn't wearing a bra, and it was hanging almost in
Lola's wheat bits. And they had just been staring at
me like, surely she will realize this. And I didn't.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Minute as Matt not realized that your tit was out.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
No one did. He was sitting next to me, and
they were sitting directly in front of me. No one
told me the whole of breakfast, just a whole boob.
You know, there's a difference with like someone not telling
you that you tags out.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
But when you tits out like someone needs to give
your heads up, like you fucking did me dirty. Hey
you've got a bit of green on your teeth. You
tag down your tits out.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
You gotta tag a tea.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Hey, I'm just tagging you. That is so funny.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
They think maybe they thought I'd done it on purpose.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
No, no, I mean it is weird that you didn't
feel the breeze.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
On it or it was beautiful and warm. I was
moist everywhere, So weird.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
You didn't feel like the wheatbits and the milk lapping
up onto the bottom of the breast.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
They weren't in the wheatbecks. They were hovering a very
small amount above the wheat pits.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
They probably thought, you're still breastfeeding and you're putting your
milk into the whetick.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
To beat it to lower for some extra sustenance. Anyway, So,
speaking of highlights of the trip, that was that was
one of them.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Really, that's so funny. Do you know what happened to
me nowhere near is they're still okay, there's one thing
that happened to me that I'm still debating if I'm
going to tell you so maybe in the coming I'll
think about it.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Just tell me now.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I might tell you on Thursday next week. I'm just
gonna think about it for a minutees pretty gross.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Are you going to bread crumb this to hope that
people listen on Thursday?

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, sure, we'll do that.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I'll break r Okay, what does it have to do
with give me, give me some cou something.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
The rankest thing that, one of the rankest things that's
happened to me happened to me, barling. But I'm going
to sit on it for now. You know what, we're
doing live shows. Later I'm weighing up whether I say
it for a live show. It was disgusting anyway.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Did you just announce without it being an official announcement
that we're doing proper live shows.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Well, we've sort of done that a few times. We've
sort of mentioned live shows. Everyone knows we're doing them, right.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Well, if you didn't know that we're doing we've done that.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
We're doing a live show.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
But we're not just doing one live show this year.
We have literally just confirmed that we are going to
be doing live shows all across the country and that
is going to be happening in October and early November,
which is naturally too.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah. Bring on the Life one Cut baby tickets and
not on sale yep, so don't go looking for them.
We'll let you know, but they are going on sale
very very soon. So keep your ears and eyes and
titties open.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, keep everything ready to accept the Life on Cut
live show. If you want to know when it's happening, Yes,
you can listen to the podcast. But a way more
effective way and you will get the tickets straight away
is go and follow us on socials at Life Uncut
Podcasts because we will absolutely announce it on Instagram when
that is all happening.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
One hundred percent. Look, you're gonna know about it. You
will know about it. We're gonna be screaming it from
the rooftops. No, something super annoying happened to me in Balle.
Annoying on multiple levels because one it was inconvenient and
two it just made me like an idiot in front
of Ben. I had been you know Ben you know hates,
not hates, but he's scared of every animal in the universe.
So we had been everyone knows in Bali monkeys are everywhere, right.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Is this the story that you're bread coming to Thursday
and you're just telling us now, no, this is a
different story. Sorry yet cool. Stay tuned for Thursday's episode.
When what happened to life?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
No, it's just this is just it was just a
funny situation. I didn't think it ever happened to me,
but I've been to Bali so many times, so I
was like, you know, when you're like showing off, I
was just like, babe, just like, I'll show you the
ropes of Ballei.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
It's my backyard.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Yeah, stick with me, like I know everything about Ballet.
I had been hounding him a lot about the monkeys
because you know, they can be very cheeky in Bali.
They steal a lot of stuff, they can break in.
And so when we arrived at this villa in Uluatu,
it was up on the mountains on the cliff, there
were monkeys everywhere, and the owner had been like, you know,
the monkeys do come in sometimes whatever. So I kept
saying to Ben, like, be really careful because it just

(14:13):
like leads stuff around. And I was hounding him constantly
about it. Anyway, I we were out some baking and
I watched this happen in slow motion were some baking
and I were eating lunch on this deck by the pool,
and I took my hat off to go for a swim,
and I took my visial line out because I was eating,
and I put my vizil line in my hat and

(14:34):
I left it on the beach chair and then we
dove into the pool, and in slow motion, I watched
a monkey jump off the roof walk over to my
hat and I was like, oh my god, you little shit,
no took my inbizzle line, took my hat. You could
not write this and fucked off the little fucker. So

(14:55):
I have lost three mizzle lines now, one buried by Delilah,
two of them to Dela, and one of them to.

Speaker 5 (15:05):
This monkey.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Is gonna have the best smile in all all the why.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Too, And he knew it too because the monkey took them.
You know when you look at a kid right and
you're like, don't drop it. You know when a kid
steal something and they look at you and they do
it anyway, the monkey did that. He literally locked eyes
on me and I was like, oh, don't do it,
and then took it. Ben watched the whole thing. He
just thought it was hysterical. Because I've been riding him
for a month. So that's my fucking viziline in. Visilin's

(15:28):
not something you can just lose because it's made for
your teeth, so you don't just go down to the
chemists and get another visilin.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
No, it's very annoying, you know what it's because it
probably tasted like food, which is disgusting to think about it.
He said, you'd just eaten and then you know, you
took it out and he would have just been like
Mike and smell some left over some curry. Yeah, that's
what he's like. That's a bit of a beef rain.
Dang right there, run off into the mountain.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
What would he do with it?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Though?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Like just annoying. What are you gonna do with that?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
He's gonna throw on the ground and litter little shit,
little shit. Well, with all of our holiday updates, I
don't feel like we actually told you any of the highlights. Really,
we both had a great time with our holiday updates
out of the way. I want to tell you what
today's episode is about because I feel like it's one
that is going to relate to so many people, and
it's going to relate to people in a variety of

(16:13):
different ways. Now, when I say we produce a Kisha
and I actually recorded this episode it's all about purpose
anxiety whilst brit was away in Bali and we interviewed.
She's a psychologist. Her name is Sabina Reid. The reason
why I found this so interesting is because I think
at different times in life, so many of us have
struggled with what is our purpose? What is it that
we're supposed to be doing. Often I think this can

(16:35):
relate to our careers, our career choices to work, especially
for people who may be finishing school or going through university.
You have those moments in life where you're like, what
am I supposed to be doing? And it can feel
very pressing, like there's almost like a timeline in which
you need to make these decisions up about your life.
But I also think it hits us at different times
in life as well. I think for me, the time

(16:55):
where I really struggle with purpose anxiety was just after
becoming a mum and feeling like my identity had change
so much and I wasn't sure what my role was,
what was supposed to take precedents in my life, what
was supposed to be the most important thing to me,
and I think for me it was juggling a career
alongside motherhood. But I think that there's so many times
in life where people struggle with what is the thing

(17:15):
that they're supposed to be doing with their life, whether
it be in relationships, whether it be around having children,
whether it be about their careers. And that's what where
I'm packing on this episode.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
I'm genuinely shattered that I wasn't here to record it,
but I'm really keen to listen to this episode as
like a consumer, because I think purpose anxiety is something
that every single person experiences, and what you just said
is right. It doesn't matter where you're at in life
or how old you are. It can come at any time.
It's something I know I've battled with all the time.
I battle with it at the moment now, and I

(17:45):
don't know if that's because I've got a long distance relationship.
I don't know if it's because I'm about to officially
go into the second half of my thirties. I'm going
to say that I'm still thirty five, but next month
I roll over where I'm closer to forty than thirty
and that's a big moment for me. But I'm doing
the same thing now. And sometimes I don't know if
you ever do this, Laura. I get really deep in

(18:07):
my mind and I'm like, what is the point? We
wake up every day and we stress and we're tired,
and we don't sleep when we go to work, and
I'm like, is there a greater purpose for me? And
it comes back to the purpose, like, am I doing
enough to help people? Am I contributing enough to society?
Am I contribute enough to my family?

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Like?

Speaker 1 (18:24):
I start to think about all these things and you
get so deep into this hectic cycle in your brain
that sometimes it's hard to get back out and sometimes
you need a shock to say, hey, everyone experiences this
and you're doing okay.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well. There were two parts of this that I really loved.
I really loved that Sabina talked about the privilege, the
privilege that comes from being able to even worry about
your purpose, because being able to worry about your purpose
means that every single basic need that you have as
a human has already been met, Because if you're worrying
about putting a roof of your head, you're certainly not
worrying about what your purpose is in life. And the
second part for me that I thought was just I

(18:58):
had this humongous a harm when we were speaking is
Britain and I have talked a lot about attachment theory
throughout the podcast. If you've read our book Attachment Theory
or something that has really been a feature that's kind
of reared its head several times. But we've spoken about
attachment theory in relation to relationships, how our relationship with
our parents impact the way in which we relate to

(19:20):
our romantic partners as we grow up. The thing that
I loved about what Sabina spoke about is that attachment
theory also hugely affects the way in which we feel
purpose in the world and the way that we had
it modeled to us, the way that we were able
to lean into the things that brought us joy as children.
All of that impacts our ability to feel purpose and
also it impacts what we think we should be doing

(19:41):
versus what we are actually doing.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Look, I wanted to talk to you about something that
it's no surprise, it's something that the whole world is
talking about the last couple of days, and that is
Jonah Hill. Now I know Laurcles. We've spoken about it
off there, but I know you've seen the texts that
have come out from his girlfriend ex girlfriend, sorry Sarah Brady,
So a couple of days ago. Sarah his ex girlfriend

(20:05):
of one year. They dated for twelve months back in
twenty twenty one, so a few years has gone past.
Jonah has just had a baby with his current partner.
But she has come out on her Instagram. She released
a series of screenshots with text messages from their exchange
in their relationship, and she just put the caption fuck
it and then started sharing and what has turned into many, many, many,

(20:28):
many Instagram slides and posts. It's gone to TikTok, has
gone to every news site, It's gone viral about the
way he treated her and spoke to her in that relationship.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Now, this wasn't just a couple of messages that were shared.
This was a fucking takedown, Like, oh yeah, Brittainy went
really deep on this, because there are so many layers
to this conversation. It wasn't just a sharing of one
or two messages or a few images. This was so
many text messages and so many instances of controlling behavior
throughout the course of their relationship.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, we will say allegedly through this because it is allegedly.
He has not commented and his representatives have not commented,
so that's very important. But she has come out and
detailed the alleged emotional abuse in that relationship.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Well, this is what she had to say when she
started posting these screenshots. The first thing was, this is
a warning to all girls, and I'm sharing this publicly
now because keeping it to myself was causing more damage
to my mental health than sharing it ever could do. Now,
she went on to say that he was a narcissist.
This is what she said, Just another narcissist and you
make me sick. One of the text messages that she
shared of Jonah Hill's was him laying down and I'm

(21:34):
gonna say, quote unquote the boundaries that he has in
his relationship. But the boundaries were more rules of which
she needed to abide by. And this is what it said,
plain and simple. If you need surfing with men, boundaryless
inappropriate friendships with men to model, to post pictures of
yourself in a bathing suit, to post sexual pictures, friendships

(21:55):
with women who are in unstable places, and from your
wild recent past beyond getting a lunch or a coffee
or something respectful, then I am not the right partner
for you. If these things bring you to a place
of happiness, well I support it and there will be
no hard feelings. However, these are my boundaries for romantic partnership,
my boundaries with you based on ways these actions have

(22:16):
hurt our trust.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's important to note before you go on that whilst
the number one thing was surfing with men, she was
a pro semi pro surfer, like her job was a
semi pro sofer, and she modeled a lot for surfing
companies and bikinis. So the two things that he says.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
At the start are actually an occupation.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
It's her occupation. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
I mean the other part of that that's so important
to unpack is like, we all know that surfing is
such a male dominated industry, so to say that you
can't go surfing with men, firstly, it limits her ability
to do her occupation. The thing that I think is
the overarching part of this, he's saying, these are my boundaries,
and he's smart, he is educated, he has been to
therapy for a really long time, and instead of acknowledging

(22:55):
that this is really controlling behavior. He's dressing it up
as though, but these are my boundaries, which absolves him
of any sort of manipulation.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Almost he did it very well, especially to say these
are the actions that have hurt our trust. Her existence.
She hasn't done anything wrong, but her existence has hurt
his trust. So of course your immediate response or her
immediate response, and it was. She says that is to
try and work around that, try and say, okay, well,
what else can I do? And she goes on to

(23:25):
show another conversation about allegedly Joying to making her delete
a bunch of photos from her Instagram, and she did
repost one saying I'm reposting this again, you know, to
fuck you narcissist kind of thing, And we go on
to learn because she reposts them, we're going to learn
that some of them were are literally standing there in
clothes like clothes. Some were bikinis that he would say

(23:45):
they show too much ass, like just the control over
what she can wear. But one in particular was a
video of her surfing, trying and you can see her
in this text exchange. She's trying to meet him halfway.
She's trying to respect these boundaries that he put in,
which is why. But when you're in it, you're in it, right,
You don't know. You want to please your lover, the
person that you think is your safe haven in your home.

(24:06):
So she started to delete things, and it got to
the point where he wanted it to delete this one
video and she says, you know, this is literally my
best surfing video, my favorite surfing video. And he keeps
trying to get it to delete it because she's in swimwear,
believe it or not, in the ocean, to the point
where she's like, please, can I even just change the
cover photo, like well the cover, like, don't make me
delete the video, And again he goes on to throw

(24:28):
around the words of boundaries and trust and respect.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
One of the hypocrisies of that is so this video
that he was asking her to delete, that he was
telling her it was breaking the trust of the boundaries,
this co opted word boundaries that he's using as a weapon.
It actually was a video that before they were dating,
he commented on and used that video to slide into
her DM. So he commented on that video sent her
like a cheeky little DM, and that was like how

(24:52):
their relationship kind of started, and so it's very interesting
that now that same video that originally kind of drew
him into her is something that he felt threatened by
and was using that, as I guess, ammunition to tell
her that she needed to doctor and censor her Instagram.
Now we've spoken loads on this podcast and many many
times before about how not okay it is for a

(25:13):
partner to try and sensor or tell you what you
can and can't do and what you can and can't post,
because it is a real overt way of controlling someone,
of treating someone as though that you're their property. But
like we said just earlier, I think the really interesting
part of this is the way that he's branded it
as boundaries, as though it's something that he it's a
limitation within his relationship. But something they think is really

(25:36):
important for us to unpack is this idea of what
constitutes boundaries in a relationship. So boundaries are limitations that
you put on yourself. These are the things that I
will and won't accept. Now, obviously there are going to
be some things like I won't be with someone who
cheats on me, I won't be with someone who lies
to me. But when it kind of gets down into
the nitty gritty around I won't be with someone unless

(25:58):
they behave in a certain way. If if you do this,
then you're breaking my boundaries. That's when I think it
crosses over into very manipulative behavior. And that's why Sarah
has said that it was very emotional manipulative. In this instance,
what Jona Hill is actually doing is he's telling her
what to do. He's saying, you need to behave in
this way and follow these set of rules. It's not boundaries,

(26:18):
it's a rule book that he's given her.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Delete this picture.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, And if you don't follow this set of rules
and these guidelines for how I want you to behave,
then you can't be in this relationship. And that in
itself is very manipulative.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Next week on the podcast, actually we're speaking to the
CEO of Respect Victoria Emily Maguire, and the episode's actually
all about non physical violent forms of domestic violence, and
this falls into it. This is gaslighting, it's manipulation, it's coercion,
it's control. And I think a lot of you'll find
that's a really interesting episode and we do touch on
it in that episode as well.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Now, something I think is really important to touch on.
And now this in no way excuses his behavior, which
I think we can all look at and say that
if those alleged techs are real, then it is hugely problematic.
But I think it would be remiss of us to
not talk about his own insecurities and where this might
actually come from. Because Jonah Hill back in twenty twenty
one did a documentary. It was called Stuts or Stuts,

(27:12):
which is the name of his therapist. He created this
documentary alongside his therapist, and what he described in that
is the self loathing he has in terms of his
body image, in terms of his weight, and how in
his own words, and how that left him being incredibly
fucked up. The reason why I bring this up is
because it's so easy to paint people as one dimensional

(27:34):
and to paint him as being this evil person. But
I do think it's interesting to unpack where this type
of behavior has come from. And Jonah Hill has been
in the media for a very long time, and there
has always been discussion around his weight, There's always been
discussion around the way that he looks, and he has
spoken very publicly about the insecurities he has as a
person and how that public scrutiny has created once again

(27:56):
this incredible self loathing that he has. No part of
me is saying that this behavior from him is okay.
But I also do think it is very interesting to
unpack the why behind what may motivate him to want
to have control in his relationships, and in this instance,
I think it comes from this deep insecurity that he
has that has been created by self loathing and the

(28:17):
public scrutiny around his body and the way that he looks.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, the way he's been treated in the media over
the years is horrific. No one deserves the level of
body shaming that he has experienced, and he spoke about
that openly. And I remember celebrating him when he came out,
you know, when he said, I'm done with this. You're
not going to make me feel bad about my body anymore.
I remember being like fucking Bravo, like live your life.
But I think the thing here for me is as

(28:41):
a level of learned misogyny and trauma mixed into one.
Does that mean it's an excuse for his behavior. No.
And the really alarming thing is this all happened after
his years of therapy. This happened after he was celebrating
how great his therapist was and how far he's come.
That's the problem for me because he's pretty much saying

(29:01):
like my therapist is the best here, I am a
new person, while simultaneously treating his partner like this, So
there's something that isn't adding up here.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
And also using all the therapy buzzwords as a weapon
to further control and Brady went on. She went on
to say, emotionally abusive partners do not necessarily mean that
they are terrible people, and it quite often emerges from
their own trauma. But at the same time, one has
to keep in mind that it is not okay. The
only other thing I wanted to add because there has
been some really interesting tweets that have been happening off

(29:32):
the back of this. As we said, everyone is talking
about it now. Doctor Nicole Badera who's a psychologist, said
she's been tweeting a lot about it, and she's been
getting a lot of mixed replies from men who feel
triggered by the fact that maybe it is holding a
mirror up to their own behavior in the way that
they are in their relationships. But this is what she
wrote in my replies, I see a whole lot of entitled,
jealous men who feel called out by this Jonahill discourse.

(29:55):
And just so you all know, women are not required
to live smaller lives because a boy is jealous. That
is controlling and there is no nice way to be controlling.
And the last one that I really enjoyed was this
Twitter and it said, if your boyfriend says not to
post that bikini pick, then you should ask him if
that's the jonah Hill he wants to die on.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, that's such a great parn I love a pun.
That was good one boom, Yeah, like fuck off.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
If you are somebody who's been in a relationship where
you have dated somebody who has controlled the things that
you posted, controlled the things that you wore, tried to
control your friendships or your relationships, it's so important to
see these conversations had in mainstream media because they think
it really holds a mirror up to how problematic this is,
how misogynistic it is, and how manipulative it is in relationships.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Also talk about it whenever the hell you want, the
people that are coming for us, saying why would you
bring this up two years later because she feels like
talking about it two years later. This is her story
to talk about it, and she can talk about it
whenever she wants.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
All right, well it is time for accidentally unfiltered and
now because he is a very innocent one. But the
reason why I loved it is because it is just
so unbelievably awkward that when I read it, I had
a visceral reaction for this poor person.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I love those ones, the ones that really make you
feel like you're there, like you feel like you want
to dig your own hole, or dig a hole for them.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And bury yourself in it.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Ever, Okay, I was at work and I had just
had a somewhat very awkward conversation with my boss. We'd
had a meeting and it had ended, and then we
both had to do that walk, or you walk in
the same direction but kind of separately towards your desk. Anyway,
she'd stopped to speak to someone, and I decided that
I needed to go to the bathroom, so I took
a little detour and there I was in the toilet.
So I was on the toilet doing my thing when

(31:35):
I heard somebody else walk into the bathroom. I work
in a massive office, but I just got a feeling
that maybe it was my boss, and I didn't want
to have to wash my hands in the basin and
dry my hands and have another awkward meeting with her
because the meeting we just had was bad enough. So
before I left the cubicle, I ever so slightly and
graciously just bent over and had a little glimpse underneath

(31:58):
the cubicle. Nah wait, because I wanted to see if
I could recognize her shoes that she was wearing underneath
the toilet door, so then I could wait for her
to leave. Here's where it gets bad. My boss was
doing the exact same thing, because we made eye contact
underneath the toilet door. Why what is wrong with you
both while sitting on the toilet. I was so fucking

(32:21):
mortified that I didn't leave the cubicle for a good
ten minutes, and then we both just acted like nothing happened.
Imagine making eye contact with your boss underneath the public
toilet after just getting in trouble in a meeting.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Why just do the old I'll flush the toilet first,
like you know how you really aggressively like pull the
toilet paper y, I'm wrapping like the meeting the toilet
meeting is winding enough, the toilet paper's coming out the zip, Like,
do the zip, do the buttons? You flush the toilet,
you give it a second. It's normal worldwide toilet courtesy
to give them that like one minute grace to get out.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Just do that.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Why did you both look under the duney?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
It doesn't matter who the It doesn't matter if it
was your boss or not. No one is going to
the basin and washing their hands at the same time.
You wait. If someone's flushing, they have right away, you
let them go.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
It is standard.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, you never have a bathroom collision ever. And you
also never make eye contact with your boss underneath the
cubicle door.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Bro hot take, don't look under anyone's cubical door.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
All right, let's get into the chat with Sabina. Joining
the podcast today is Sabina Read. Sabina is a psychologist,
a speaker, and co host of the Human Cogs podcast,
and today we're talking about something that I think so
many of us have experienced at different points in our life,
and that is purpose anxiety. Sabina, Welcome to Life on Cut.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
I reckon we.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
Would probably get almost a message of day Laura from
people in our in our listeners, or people who follow
us on social.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
Media at a bit of a crossroads where.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
They're kind of thinking, I don't really know if what
I'm doing is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
All the other side of it.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
Is more I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.
I feel quite lost. And so it got us talking
amongst ourselves about what this actually could be, and after
doing a bit of googling, we found out that it
was called purpose anxiety.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
So could you explain to us from.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
A psychologist's perspective, what is purpose anxiety?

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Where you can see I'm trackling away, because don't we
have a label for everything. Clinically, there is no such
thing as purpose anxiety. You're not going to find it
in the DSM as a clinical diagnosis, But of course
it is what it sounds like. It's this feeling of frustration, sadness, searching, wondering,
uncertainty around am I doing or am I living the

(34:39):
way that I think I should be? Is my life
filled with purpose and meaning like I think it should be?
And I think the word should there's pretty key because
in a way I think this has become too overcooked
for a lot of people. Of course, meaning and purpose
has been a part of human behavior since the dawn
of time. But this eternal search for it, or being

(35:00):
able to articulate it so neatly and wrap it in
a box tied in a bow, I think is probably
doing us a disservice.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
How does someone know if they have spent too much
time worrying about what their purpose is or allowing it
to overtake too much of their happiness? I guess because
we have been sort of fed this narrative that everybody
has a purpose, and that you should be able to
love your job, and you should be able to be
so happy, and everything feels very aspirational, and when you're
falling short of that in your own life, or even

(35:28):
if you're young and you're at university and you're thinking, fuck,
I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing with myself.
How does one know whether it's a normal amount of
stress versus really kind of sitting into this category where
they've kind of overcooked it.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
I think this idea that there's only one destination of purpose,
one destination of meaning, is what's not helpful to me
having a life with meaning and purpose means that we
hit moments across the lifespan, small moments, big moments. But
we don't have to build an orphanage. We don't have
to save the whales, we don't have to invent the
yellow sticky note. We find meaning and purpose in sometimes

(36:05):
the smallest parts of our lives. And I think it's
this search for the one eternal point of meaning that
is what trips us up. So we may find that
we have a moment of meaning when we have an
exchange with another human who we never see again, who
we don't know. We may find that we have time
of meaning and purpose when we have an exchange with
our child or a colleague. To me, actually, if I

(36:29):
had to define what really bolsters meaning in our life,
it's impacting the life of another human. And that doesn't
mean thousands of other humans on mass We don't need
to be a motivational speaker with millions of followers. The
fact that at one point in our day we've impacted
someone else's life is meaningful. If you ask any human

(36:50):
what is meaningful in your life? Someone who's searching, someone
who may be experiencing purpose anxiety, what's the purpose in
your life? Usually people who are able to articulate form
of purpose telling us that they've impacted or touched or
connected with another human in some way, even for that
little moment in time. And I think we have this
idea that there's one perfect job for us, that there's

(37:12):
one perfect soulmate for us, that one house is going
to be the house that feels our heart and feels
like home. And I think that's unhelpful as well, And
rightly or wrongly, I think there are thousands of partners
that could make great partners for each of us. And
by great I mean probably partners that hold a mirror

(37:32):
to us. I think there's multiple jobs that would show us.
It's why a career change is not uncommon and why
we move jobs. So I think if we think that
meaning and purpose is a destination, we've got it wrong.
I think it's really the journey that we're on that
is peppered with moments of purpose and meaning.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
What does it look like if someone's listening to this
right now, thinking oh, some of this is kind of
ringing a bit true to me. But what does it
look like or does it vary depending on the person
and what it is that you think they're trying to
find purpose in.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, I mean you alluded to it earlier, Kesha, that
we either have this idea. It kind of comes in
two forms. It's either I don't have the purpose that
I desire in my life. That's part one. Part two
might be that I do have a sense of what
brings me purpose or what I'm here to do, if
you like, but I don't know how to put it
into action. So both of those can be I guess

(38:23):
in invitation to explore further, you're asking what does it
actually look like? What does it feel like? I mean,
it's just this sense of disease, I would call it.
We're comparing ourselves to others. We're feeling lost, We're feeling uncertain.
We might feel apathetic. We might feel a paralysis for
some people, like a stuckness, like I don't know what
to do next. So those are probably some of the feelings.

(38:45):
We might feel anxious, we might feel depressed. But this
is why it's important to note that this is not
a clinical diagnosis, because a lot of those emotions we
feel throughout life for a whole host of reasons, and
they're not all because they're a clinical diagnosis. They are emotions.
Emotions are an invitation to explore and perhaps an invitation
to do things differently, not a red flag that the

(39:08):
world's gone to ship.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah. I mean it's interesting, isn't it, because so many people,
and I think for myself when I've had moments of
this in my life, and They've come at different stages
of life too, when I've had big change, whether it's
been I know we touched on earlier university, but I
also had it when I became a mum. Do you
think as well for people who experience this, that it
comes from comparison, And I think increasingly so we have

(39:31):
so much access to people's lives, We have so much
access to comparison.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Of course, we all know social media, and there are
the forces in the world that men that were always
continual in comparing ourselves with other people. But Laura, I
think what you said earlier is really important, and that's
that our meaning and purpose looks different across the lifespan.
And if you ask a twenty two year old what
is meaningful or purposeful in your life, you'll get a

(39:55):
very different answer than if you ask a fifty two
year old or an eighty two year old or one
hundred and two year old. There's probably something we can
learn from that in some ways. You know, I love
the work of Ronnie Ware, who's the palliative care nurse
who talked about the five Regrets of the dying. So
she sat with people who were dying and listened to
their main regrets. And I think there's some lessons in

(40:15):
those regrets because those are people who are at the
end of their life. And no one, not one of
those five top regrets was I wish I had more
purpose in my life. What they were talking about, perhaps
is I wish I had spent more time with the
people that I love, or I wish I allowed myself
to be happier. That was another one of the top
five regrets. But of course, if you ask someone in

(40:36):
their twenties or younger years, they may express purpose as
perhaps linked to their job. Looking for a job. What
should I be doing? I don't know what I should
be doing. I don't have a career, I don't have
a passion, so I feel purposeless. And so I think
the fact that our purpose and connection to purpose changes
across the life span indicates again that there's not one

(40:58):
ideal place of arrival the constitutes purpose or a purposeful life.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
Something I've heard Laura and Britt speak about a lot
on the podcast with a variety of guests over the
years is like the happiness trap, that idea of thinking
that your happiness is at a particular destination, and how
often if you kind of reach that point, you can go, oh,
fuck this did this actually doesn't feel like what I
thought it was going to feel like.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Or it makes you happy for that little bit, and
then you get accustomed to that new thing and then
you need more.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, like the goal shift, that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (41:30):
But I guess the other side of it is, I mean,
I would consider myself quite a driven person, particularly in
my career for the past you know, ten years, and
I guess having that sense of purpose has made me
feel a sense of worthiness and a sense of validation.
And maybe not always from the right sources of validation,
but it definitely has brought me a sense of validation.

(41:50):
What are the positive aspects of feeling a sense of
purpose or maybe even achieving that sense of purpose.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I'd like to say two things on that casion of
why is let's talk about what well being looks like.
Well being to me, the model that I refer to
all the time. The perman model of wellban has five
factors to it. Meaning and purpose is one of those
five factors of well being. But in addition to those
is achievement. You've just talked about achievements. So in order
to live a life filled with well being and to

(42:19):
be a well being, like in the case of being
a noun, a well human, a wellbeing, we need to
have a sense of accomplishment and achievement that I set
goals and I meet goals. I set goals and I
meet goals. Plus, we need this idea that we're connected
to something bigger than ourselves. Really, that's what meaning and
purpose is. That's how I would define meaning and purpose.
In addition to those two, to live a life with

(42:40):
well being, we need to feel a sense of positive
emotions that might be lightness, humor, connection, joy. We need
to also feel a sense of engagement in what we do.
And one of the ways we feel a sense of
engagement is to tap into our natural strengths. Our natural
strengths are the things that we were probably doing when
we were four or five or ten years old. No

(43:03):
one was teaching us to do them. They were a
part of who we are, and if we let go
of those natural strengths in our adult lives, our sense
of well being is going to deteriorate. And the fifth
ingrediental factor of well being is relational, so our connection
with other humans, whether it's an intimate one on one
relationship or friendships, or family or colleagues. So I think

(43:26):
it's relevant that you asked about achievement because achievement is
very much tied into a well being, but not necessarily
as directly correlated. I would say to meaning and purpose
and the second thing I wanted to say about that
you were talking then I think about extrinsic drivers. Of course,
an extrinsic driver is when you are validated by something
outside of yourself and by someone else. Usually so someone

(43:50):
says great job, someone says I want to give you
a pay rise, someone says you really nailed that. Then
we feel better about ourselves and there's nothing wrong with
it extrinsic validation. But we also need to look for
intrinsic drivers as well that come from within. Why did
that feel good to you? Because you learned, or you grew,
or you impacted someone else, or you overcame a challenge

(44:13):
that you didn't think you could. Those are intrinsic drivers,
and I think their scope for both.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Do you think it also comes down to like, it's
slightly privileged to be able to have so much time
to think about purpose.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
So for fear of sounding like a psychologist, because I'm
throwing a few theories your way, but it just I'm
throwing the theories in to say I haven't made this
shit up.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
That's why we have you on. We can talk about
this stuff. Did the Cows Come Home? But better that
you do it?

Speaker 3 (44:37):
No, Well, I like doing it with you. And I
don't have a theory for everything, and I certainly don't
have all the answers, but you're talking about some topics
that I'm pretty passionate about. So another theory that I
think is really relevant here Abraham Maslow, who was a
psychologist in the nineteen forties. So we're talking, you know,
eighty years ago. Many of your listeners will be familiar with,
if not by name, his hierarchy of needs. And he

(44:59):
proposed eighty years ago that it's kind of a linear
sequential meeting of needs or hierarchy of needs. So first
of all, we need the most basic needs met. That's shelter,
that's food. Sex is in that very basic physiological needs.
I think what he was getting to there was to
pro create is a basic need, and then he went
on to talk about more needs of safety and security

(45:22):
and employment, and then upper guys up the hierarchy. Relational
needs come next, and at the top is what he
called self actualization, which is really what we're talking about today.
And if you are worrying about where you're going to
sleep tonight, not who you're going to sleep with, but
where you're going to sleep tonight or what meal you're
going to have, then you're not going to be thinking

(45:44):
how can I live my best life? And what is
my purpose? So there is something about meeting these most
basic needs first. But I don't think this is just
due to the fact that our lives are automated and
you know, there's a lot of technological advances. Because since
the dawn of time, I mean, reeks were looking for
what the meaning of love? Aristotle was asking these questions.

(46:04):
So I think we're all been asking these questions forever.
It's part of the human condition to be trying to
make sense of why am I here and what's my
purpose and what's my meaning. I think the other thing
that's important here is that even if you are struggling
with some of those more basic needs, you can create
a sense of meaning and purpose if, like we talked

(46:25):
about earlier, you think about how you will impact the
life of another. So even if you have no money
to support anyone else to donate money, you have a
smile that you can offer other people. You have a
voice that you can say to someone, how are you
going today? Every one of us can do that, and
through those small exchanges, I think we do create a

(46:46):
sense of meaning and purpose, and I think we overlook those.
We look for these big, bright sparks where people are
applauded and really seeing for what they've done that's created
meaning and purpose. But we all have the capacity to
create meaning and purpose or to impact someone else's life,
which creates meaning in our own life. And we can
break it down. You were talking about careers. I don't

(47:08):
know if you're familiar with the idea of job crafting,
but job crafting is the sense that even in the
job that you have, you might not want to be
the CEO, you might not want to be the top
of the tree. You might not be really driven or
really motivated. One of my favorite stories that came about
through the research in job crafting was when they researched

(47:28):
some cleaners in a hospital setting and they were asked,
what is the point of your role? What do you
do in the hospital? And some of those cleaners, of
course said well, I just mopped the floor, and I
wipe the bench and I disinfect her. But others took
it upon themselves. They even use language like I forget
what it was, but someone like I'm a human connection
officer or something. I don't know what the words were.

(47:50):
But what they had done in the job that they
held as a hospital cleaner was to take it upon
themselves to move artwork around in the woods so that
a lot of the patients to a bed ridden got
to see different art from their beds. They took it
upon themselves to walk visitors to and from the car park.
They were the hospital cleanness, but in their job they

(48:11):
found a way to impact the life of others, and
through doing that, they created meaning and purpose for themselves.
They didn't want to be the CEO of the hospital.
They wanted to make sure that what they were doing
had meaning and purpose.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
To others in the terms and the ways that you're
speaking about purpose and how it comes from this connection
with people. But if I was to have someone say, oh,
you know, I'm lacking purpose in my life, initially, my
very first thought would have been job. And I say
that because they think that there's this real drive at
the moment to own your own business, to be an entrepreneur,
to you know, have something I don't know, whatever, have

(48:45):
an Etsy store, whatever it is. There's always got to
be something that's the side hustle to the main job,
and that if you're doing a nine to five job
that you don't love, you must be settling and then
therefore your life is a bit purposeless. Do you think
we sometimes place too much important on a very specific,
stylized type of living life out in terms of career ambitions.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yes, I do, Laura, and I think so many jobs
and what you just described is out there in social media,
so everyone's showing you at their side hustle looks like,
and they're showing you how much fun it is and
how they look in the process. I think employment is
really important. I mean research tells us that when people
aren't working, who have been working, or they take time

(49:27):
off either to look after their physical health or mental health,
orerhaps they've lost their job or they are needing to
care for someone else, that there is a dip in
purpose in our lives. So sometimes I think we avoid
work when we're really feeling fragile, or perhaps it's not
by choice either. And the research is telling us that
being engaged in employment brings a sense of meaning and purpose,

(49:49):
and I think the hospital story kind of highlights that.
But perhaps, yes, we do have too much emphasis on
finding one love of your life, the soulmate, the one
person that walks this earth that was made for you.
If you have that idea in your personal relationships or
you have that idea in your job, I think some

(50:11):
of us who hold on to that idea will be disappointed.
That doesn't mean that the relationship that you're in that
fills you up isn't wonderful. It doesn't mean that if
you're in a job that is full of meaning and
purpose and growth and impact and development, but that's not wonderful.
It's not the only place you can feel that, And
it's not with only that person that you can feel that.
And when we believe it is, and then we don't

(50:34):
get there, we don't grasp it. We fell out, We've failed.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
You know, there's a story that my grandma told me.
It was when I was about to go to university.
And she grew up a pretty working class in a
small country town in the north of England and she
moved over to Australia about sixty years ago now. But
she when she moved over here, you know, she had
two children and she raised them and then when they
were in high school she started her job in retail

(50:58):
at what was called Great Brothers then it's now Maya.
But I remember her kind of taking my hand as
I was about to go to UNI, and she just
said to me something along the lines of like, I
want you to.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Grasp how lucky you are to be able to go
and get this education, because I would have done anything
to have an education, like I would have done anything
to be able to go to university.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
So I guess it can be a bit of a
double edged sword, though, And I'm interested to know your
thoughts on whether the opportunity to be able to do
whatever we want has overwhelmed us, you know, has it
given us too many options?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Almost?

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I don't think, I mean it's a beautiful story, and
it's a good reminder of the lessons that you've gleaned
from your grandmother. I don't think we do our kids,
or the next generation, or anyone a service when we
tell them you can do anything, the world's your oyster,
you can be whatever you want to be, because that's overwhelming.

(51:54):
If a child internalizes that, literally, many children unconsciously will
think what happens if I don't what MS if I
can't what ams if I don't deliver that? And I
think we've seen a real rise in anxiety, not due
to that topic per se, but to that sense of
overwhelm and needing to deliver and not knowing how So,

(52:14):
of course we want to support our children, and every
well meeting parent, everyone who's ever said you can be
whatever you want to be has said it from a
well meaning place. But I think it would be better
for parents or teachers, or educators or friends or community
members to ask some of the questions instead of what
do you want to be? What do you want to feel?

(52:35):
How do you want to feel in your life? Not
what do you want to be? And through those feelings,
through that exploration, through understanding what energizes you and how
you impact others and how you would like to spend
your time. You may come to a place of understanding
the way that you want to be employed. Now I
don't have stars in my eyes. You're right, there's a

(52:57):
level of privilege by having the choice. That's again why
I go back to the hospital cleaner story. That's not
a glamorous job. It's not a high paying job. But
some of the happiest people, some of the most fulfilled people,
some of the people that have the greatest depth of
meaning and purpose in their life, are not doing big,
glamorous things. And I think we need to head that reminder.

(53:18):
It's not the big accolades that bring a sense of
meaning and purpose for everyone. For me, I've got a
real portfolio career. I mean I speak, and I write,
and I pod and counsel, idio media, radio, TV. What
I love about that is the diversity and the challenges
and the growth and the connection with other people. That's
what I love about it. If I was doing the

(53:40):
same thing every day, that wouldn't work for me, but
it will work for someone else. So instead of pretending
that there's a right way or a wrong way, it's
what parts of your day? How do you want to
spend your day? And it kind of goes back to
well what lit you up? A good question to ask
is when I was a child, what lit me up?
Another good question to us now is what do I

(54:01):
spend most of my time talking about with my friends?
These are good questions for people who are thinking what
the fuck is my perpose? Similar so, what do you
spend your time talking about with your mates? What did
you do as a young child by choice? Not because
someone was telling you you're a good boy or a
good girl for doing it, but because it's how you
chose to naturally spend your time. When do you feel

(54:22):
most energized? Not at work, not at home, not with it,
but just when? What are you doing when you're feeling energized?
It's questions not those that help us tap into what
we are naturally connected to, and when we have a
natural connection to it, we're probably going to feel some
level of meaning and purpose around it.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
How profound is our blueprint as a child? I mean
I would have thought the things that I did as
a kid probably don't have that much impact on me.
But even as you said it, I was like It's
so interesting to me because the things I used to
do as a kid is I used to entertain I
used to do little concerts for my family, and now
I work in entertainment. And you know, it surprises me
just how much when you said that that that actually

(55:02):
was the stuff that I did as a child. I
was super creative, and I wonder if that's the case
for everyone. The things that we love now as adults
are truly were always there.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
You said, how big a blueprint is our childhood are that?
You said, it's mind blowing how big it is. We're
so influenced by our young gy years the way, not
just we're talking about career and meaning and purpose now,
but we could talk about our relationship with money, our
relationship to love, our relationship to conflict, to anger, to avoidance,
to fame, anything. We learned so much in our younger years,

(55:33):
consciously and unconsciously, and we seek to bring the best
parts with us, but of course we don't because we're
a flawed spacis. So we often bring some of those
things that happened served us well as kids, and we
repeat them. I often talk about repeat versus repel, and
we repeat and repel patterns and learnings through the generations,

(55:53):
sometimes consciously sometimes unconsciously. So we might say, well, in
our home, we were really driven and education was highly regarded,
and I want that for my children. That's a repeat.
But we could also say there was so much emphasis
placed on education in my childhood, and I want my
children just to have the freedom to explore without that

(56:16):
lens or that pressure put on them. That's a repel.
Then you marry someone else who's doing their own repeat
and repels, and they've got a repeat repel. Kind of clusterfuck, really,
because everyone's pushing and billing between where they came from,
what they want, where person B came from, and what
they want and welcome to married life.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
I think a lot of people in their kids or
as they're growing up, they ignore those parts of themselves
that they loved as a child because maybe they weren't encouraged,
or maybe they were told that they weren't things that
could turn into a career. I know for me, we
found all my report cards from when I was a kid,
and I was always in trouble for talking too much.
I was always in trouble for distracting people. Now you

(56:56):
get paid to people pay me to distract them. But
the thing is is, for me, it was always talked
about as a negative. It was something that I felt
shameful of that I couldn't concentrate enough. I would always
distract other people. And so I guess this is probably
the first time that I've thought about it. It was
a joy for me, like I love talking, and I'm
sure it was very annoying to a lot of people,
but it was truly something that I loved.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
So I think one of the things you're tapping into
there is that sometimes we're criticized for being USh. Often
we're criticized over the years for being us, And so
if you want to get deep from a psychological perspective,
I would say that we have what is the little
child in all of us is learning to cope in
the world. And one of the things we look for

(57:39):
is to be praised and loved and seen to be safe,
because if our can givers don't love us, w's for it.
So we're learning all the time how to please, how
to do what's required, how to do what's expected of us.
That's what I would call the adaptive child. They've adapted
to the environment in order to survive. The wounded child
is that time in your life when thets of you

(58:00):
that are the natural parts of you are not seen,
not accepted, not celebrated. So there's a hurt there around that,
and the adaptive child comes along and says, let's adapt
somehow so that we can get on in this life.
This is a really normal, natural experience for me, every
young person, I would say, every child. But it's what
we do with that wounded child and that adaptive child

(58:22):
as adults. What parts of those do we bring and
replicate and what parts do we realize we can leave behind.
Thank you, adapted child for keeping me safe when I
don't need that now. So thank you for keeping me
safe by telling me at school to shut up, because
that's what the teachers were doing. That's kept me safe
in that time. But I don't need to do that now.
I don't need to adapt anymore. I can go back

(58:44):
to the natural, organic, authentic me before I became the
wounded child, before I became the adaptive child, to get
on in life. Is that too deep?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
No, I think it's perfect. And I'm also glad that
you mentioned you know, it can be something that you
carry throughout your life. Because I think a lot of
people get into relationships they feel like they have to
bend and flex and be different and dull certain parts
of their personality to appease the person that they've chosen
to be in a relationship with. And these are things
that we do as kids and the things that we
continue to do as adults. It's not that we become

(59:14):
adults and it just all of a sudden, Oh, we're
allowed to be or able to be the most authentic
version of ourselves. I think a lot of us still
feel like they have to kind of shape shift or
be a bit of a chameleon in certain environments.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Of course we do, and sometimes we do. Sometimes we
just have to edit just to do the right thing
wherever we are. But if we continue to do that,
no wonder we have the levels of anxiety and depression
we have because we're gagging ourselves. We're pretending to be
someone we're not. We're seeking validation, approval, acceptance, and love
where we're not really showing the world who we are.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
How much can what we are naturally good are and
what we really want to do in life? And feeling
a sense of purpose be impacted by your responsibilities both
of you are mothers, and I assume that not only
do you get a sense of purpose when you have
a child, and that's to raise a good kid and whatnot,
but both of you are career women. Did you ever

(01:00:08):
feel the need to kind of suppress your desire to
feel a sense of purpose in your career because you
had a bigger responsibility at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
If I give everything to my children, I can't give
anything to myself. I can't explore a career. I can't
feel good about whooping it up outside the home, whether
that's personally or professionally or socially, because I've made a
decision to give fully and holy to my children. And then,
not surprisingly, when that happens, you're like, oh, I want
to do this all the time. This is not bringing

(01:00:38):
me what I thought it would. I've always wanted to
do other things alongside parenthood. And now, in the fullness
of time, I'm in a different stage of life to you,
and I'm entering the empty nest sort of years my kids.
I've got two daughters who are twenty two and twenty,
and I've got some peers and friends and people my

(01:00:58):
age who I observe have been fully engage with their children,
but their children are leaving now, and so talking at
this is relevant to the conversation we're having today around
meaning and purpose across the lifespan. If your meaning and
purpose is fully and solely defined by your parenting role,
of course you're always a parent, but you're not hands
on when your kids are adults. So what them do

(01:01:20):
your meaning and purpose? So I would hope that we're
able to give ourselves the grace, give each other the grace,
and woman to woman and man to man, parent to parent,
human to human, give ourselves the grace to acknowledge that
we're made up of parts and all of these conflicting
parts need different things. But to pretend we don't have

(01:01:43):
these parts again, it's I think a big contributing fact.
I'm getting quite philosophical my soapbots now. But to why
we see anxiety and depression in the rates that we do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Well, I mean, we cover more that I even thought
we would in terms of this conversation, and I do
think that's so much of this. When we first started
looking into it, we were like, oh, yeah, university students,
they're the ones who really feel like they you know,
when you had that period of life where you finish
school and you're not sure that. As we've established, it's
something that people experience at all different points of life,

(01:02:16):
at all big transitions, and I think it's something that
we won't stop experiencing for as long as there is
big change that happens, which there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Always will be. So we have to lean in, we
have to be curious. We have to bring acceptance and
surrender and hope and purpose and movement and action instead
of thinking what the fuck's happening? Now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
That's what I love every single day, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
I think that there was a I'm so terrible for
saying this because it's a quote that I'm going to
have to paraphrase at best because I can't remember the
actual words of it, and I don't even remember who
it was from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
That's great, he's just going to butcher this completely. Let's
put it at the end of the PODT.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
It went along the lines of like, people won't remember
what you earned, they won't remember what you wore, but
they will remember the way that you made them feel.
And I think that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Putton, you're not quite on it almost.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Because you nailed the sentiment that people remember how you
make them feel, not what you say, not what you
look like, not what you do. I reckon the takeaway,
it's not just connection, it's what's something bigger than yourself.
Something bigger than yourself is how we carve out meaning

(01:03:28):
and purpose. And I think something bigger than yourself is
nearly always the way you impact others. So connection infers
that we've actually had an exchange and we've connected, but
we can impact others who we haven't connected with. So
that's why I'm splitting hairs on that one. Even though
you had a ripper quote that a river half.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Well, you know, we never finished an episode without our
sucking our sweet the highlight and the low light of
the week. I will kick it off. I actually had
a few to chew from this week, which doesn't happen often.
Usually I'm scrambling, but there the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
Sucks are for sweets. You're like, my life is so neutral,
nothing good or bad happens, you see.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
I'm just platoing, like I'm just cruising along. No, my
suck's actually so dumb and no one's ever gonna know.
Like she's not gonna know. But I forgot a birthday
this week, who's a very important person delight. Delilah, Yeah,
on the fourth of July, and I should remember because
it's such a like the fourth of July she turned
two years old and I forgot it. But she doesn't

(01:04:31):
know because she's on holiday with my parents, so she
doesn't know I forgot the birthday. She also doesn't know
because she's a dog. There's that as well.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Do she realize that she's been shafted off to her parents?
At your parents' house, she's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Having the time of a life. She's on a beach
vacations up in Port Macquarry. There's two other dogs to
play with. They get videos that She's not gonna want
to come home. She is going to hate me. But
I got a message yesterday from producer Keisha middle of
the night. Oh my god, I forgot Delilah's birthday. She
said that, and I was like, it's okay, I forgot
it too. Let's not let's let's agree to not tell Delilah.
So I guess I made a packet. Delia will never know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Are you gonna be okay? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Hopefully.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
It's pretty bad to forget your own child's birthday, Like
if I just forgot Molly's birthday entirely. I think I
should feel pretty bad for that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
And my sweet for the week is also everyone's gonna
hate me because it's so stupid as well. But my
sweet is all the moms are gonna hate me because
I don't have Delilah, who is like my child I've
been sleeping in.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
I know you're all gonna laugh because it's not a
real child. But I also have to get up early
to take her outside.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Oh that's a legitimate she wakes up so early totally
like he walks straight away.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
I feel like it's like the real, real, low like
entry level to what maybe maybe one percent of having
a child is like, because I do have to wake
up super early so she can go and empty a
bladder because I don't have a dog it or because
I live in a Bondae apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
And you do sometimes breastfeed her, so that's sometimes the breastfeers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
She really needs to fuck you. What's your suck?

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
My suck for the week, I mean, apart from getting
my period day fucking one of my what do we
call it again? The period? Blood flood, honeymoon.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
Blood flood, blood flood hashtag honeymoon blood flood gate.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Okay, that was my main suck. I genuinely don't have
a very big suck this week because it was such
an amazing week with my family in Fiji. I had
such a beautiful time, and it was also Matt's birthday,
So I'm going to say that my sweet for the
week was Matt's birthday, which was the sixth of July,
two days after Delilah's. Didn't forget it, and we got
to go snorkeling, and the thing that was so beautiful.

(01:06:31):
So the place that we stayed at in Fiji was
the same place that we stayed at for our baby moon,
and it's where Matt proposed. So the last time I
was there, I was seven months pregnant. We went snorkeling
and kind of did all the things that we did
this time, except it was so beautiful to revisit it
reflect on the fact that life has changed so much
in the past four years. But something that was really
special and completely has nothing to do with my family

(01:06:53):
is we went snorkeling along the reef there four years
ago and the reef was almost completely white wall like,
it was really badly affected by coral bleaching and over
the past four years, something amazing has happened in that
area and so much of the coral reef has actually
come back to life. And so we went snorkeling in
that same area and it was incredible to see just

(01:07:14):
how beautiful, bright and colorful it was, which.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
So cool not only to see like how far you
guys have come as a couple, but how far the
reef has come in that time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
You truly we've all made so many changes for the best.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
No, that is in all seriousness, that's amazing, because we
are close to losing a lot of the natural wonders
and a lot of the reef, especially in Australia.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Well it shat all over the Great Barrier reef, Like
I mean, I've done snorkeling and with a Great Bearrier
reef like beautiful. Yes, sure, but this was phenomenal and
it was such a nice day. We put the kids
into kids clad and we Matt and I went and
had a little cute day together as a couple, just
the two of us, and it was so much. That
was my sweet for the week.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Do you feel like because before you left you had
made a comment on the podcast and said, you know,
like you really needed to connect, reconnect with Matt. Do
you feel like you got what you came for or
did he spend too much time doing laps underwater?

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Did we connect as much physically as what I would
have liked?

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Did the penis connect with the Virginia?

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
No, there was there wasn't as much of that connection.
But look, you know, if we're working on it, it's
a work in progress. Everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
That is it from us guys. If you love the episode,
please leave us a review, let us know, share it
with a friend, and send in your accidentally unfiltered and
your embarrassing stories, your confessions, literally anything that you think
we want to hear. We want to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Yeah. And also, like we said, go and follow us
on Instagram, our laugh on Cut podcast. We've also got
a TikTok and if you wanted to get ticks to
the live show, please go and follow the social media
because you'll be the very first to find out when
goes go on sale. Don't forget to your.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Mum, tea, dad, teet old, Tweet friends and share the
love because we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Love love

Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
The bal Blan

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