November 6, 2023 • 45 mins
From the highest of live show tour highs, to the depths of viral lows, we've had quite the week. Laura's luggage is on a little journey of it's own and is...most likely... still in Brisbane (*trying to get more info on this).
Laura, Producer Keeshia and Mitch have all fallen like dominos from covid and somehow Britt's immune system is still going strong.Â
There's a neuroscientist who has claimed that there are chemical reasons that women fall in love with men when they are having sex; whereas it's not quite the same for men. The science is a bit up for debate but Laura has some anecdotal evidence she'd like to bring to the table.
We also unpack a newsletter sent by the headmaster of the Sydney all boys private school where Lilie James was murdered where he labelled her murderer as 'not a monster.'
These types of character descriptions, along with other accounts of positive personality traits are a way for people to distance themselves from the idea that they know someone capable of such violence. We don't want to think that a person we know or care about is capable of such evil behaviour. A huge part of breaking down the false perception that society has around domestic violence is that we need to better understand that these men are 'normal' men, who live where we do and hold normal jobs.Â
We also discuss how certain media using phrases like 'scorned lover' diminishes the responsibility from the murderer, and contributes to victim blaming.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands
were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders
past and present.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back
to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany, and I don't want to brag,
but it's probably going to come back to bite me.
But I'm the only healthy person left in this Life
Uncut podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Excuse me, excuse me. I think you are getting a
little bit ahead of yourself because it could be coming
for you. Brittany Hockley.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
As soon as I actually said it, I'm like, you idiot,
because I actually believe in that shit. I believe in
jinxne and stuff. And as soon as it's coming down
of my mouth, I was like, oh, I'm going to
get so sick.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
No.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
We finished the live show tours. It was incredible. The
next day everyone in the team, Mitch Jury produced a Kisha.
Laura burn All started to feel a little bit under
the weather and then everyone got COVID.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It was from the highs of the Highs to the
lows of the lows. Kish got it first, and then
I got it. I went down like a sack of shit,
and then Mitch. So it was kind of just like
a domino effect that happened.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, and I was on the plane with Keisha, so produce,
Keisha and I were flying home together. You were staying
up a little bit long the Laura with the kids
and Matt, and then Mitch flew on a different plane
and I had to sit basically next Sekisha the entire time.
And still somehow I didn't I don't know what's going on.
I think I had it a few months ago in Scotland,
so maybe, like my immunity is still up from it.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This time it's hit me ka. I feel like I've
been transported back to twenty twenty one. I spent my
entire weekend trapped in the house with the kids. Not
a big deal, it's only two days, I get it.
Twenty twenty one was very, very different to that. But
what happened was I stayed in Brisbane for an extra day.
I thought I was just tired from like the live shows,
you know. I thought that that was just a normal
level of tiredness. Totally I got to the airport, I
(01:58):
went to check in and I walked up to the
front encounter and the lovely virgin staff that was standing
there goes to me. She looked shocked, like she looked
visibly shocked. She went and I thought it was because
maybe she recognized Matt and I, but then she goes, oh,
you look so different to your Instagram. You look really tired.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No she did not, she did. You can't tell someone
that they look different to their Instagram unless it means
you look better.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
She was like, you look like shit, and I was like, yeah, anyway,
I knew I didn't feel one hundred percent. I thought
I was just really tired, Like I just had really
this real body tiredness. I didn't feel sick. And then
when I was on the plane, I started to feel itchy.
This is a fucking weird symptom, but like my face
started to feel itchy, my arms started to feel itchy.
And I went to the bathroom and I was like, oh,
(02:46):
I look like actual shit.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I understand now, I don't remember itchiness. I'm just trying
to think I've had it twice, but I don't remember
ever having that itchiness feeling. I wonder if that's a
new addition to the twenty twenty three straight of COVID.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
All lucky me. I don't know. I feel like for me,
I've never had like I mean, I have had the
traditional symptoms I've had, like the not being able to taste,
not being able to smell, but like this started off
really weird, which is why I didn't realize what it
was at the time and then when I got home. Also,
very sorry to anyone who was on that fucking virgin flight.
I'm deeply, deeply apologetic. I got home and I did
a test at like maybe aout four or five hours
(03:22):
after I got home, and those two lines came up
so quick. They came up faster than when I did
a pregnanicy test. Like they were like, Bam, you have COVID,
so the live show tour is over. How do you
feel now?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's like, oh, you've got COVID, so it doesn't count.
But I went on a proper like I don't want
to put myself in this this basket. But a lot
of artists call it like I like the adrenaline come
down post show post tour. Sam Fisher was talking about
it that it's like it's a real thing. And I
think I had it for a few days. I went
complete hermit, introverted, didn't want to talk to anyone, and
it was a really weird feeling. And I was like,
(03:54):
what is this feeling? And Sam Fisher was like, Oh,
it's just like a post tour adrenaline dump all your adrenaline,
all the highs out, and you're just like flatlining.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Wait did you feel sad that it was over or
did you just feel like you had nothing left in
the tank?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I can't be sure. I think part of me was
happy it was over so that we could calm down,
but then part of me was really sad it was
over and it was so incredible and we can't wait
to do it again next year. Actually we wait, wait, wait,
a huge thank you? Shut up?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, sorry, what did you just say?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well, I think we're going to do it different next year,
but we already spoke about that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Let's just repeat it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I can't wait to do it really differently in the
regional towns next year. No, we don't want to put
anything out there in case we don't know what's going
to happen, but we would like to try something different
next year. We're unsure what that will be yet, but
I did want to just say a huge thank you
to some of the people we worked with along the
way that actually helped make the two possible and amazing.
(04:45):
And one of those was the Ivanni Oaks team. So
they're the hotels that we stayed at mainly around the country,
and they were just beautiful. They had all the rooms
always ready for us, even if it was a bit
of an early check in, and they just really looked
after us. They had beautiful pools everywhere, the staff amazing,
and it just made it a really enjoyable tour.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and we were also doing like a whole heap
of our podcast recording from there as well, So having
a space that felt like a home away from home
was perfect totally.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And then so we tried to have different couches lounges
on the stage at all the different shows, and you
might have seen some of them. We had these big
pink lips. I had loads of people writing to me
actually wanting those for their offices and things like that.
Now I do think you can buy them. You can't
buy them through the company we use, but we hired
all of our lounges through Simply Seated, which is like
a fire function. Right. They do lots of different events
(05:33):
I think they do, like weddings, But anything that you
need you can hire through Simply Seated. And they've got
different warehouses around the country. But I even asked them.
I was like, hey, if I wanted to buy this
for our own office, can you do it? And she said, look,
you can't buy through them, but you can for all
those people inquiring. You can buy that exact thing somewhere
on the interwebs. But if you do want to just
(05:54):
hire it, Simply Seated were absolutely incredible to us.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love the disclaim it there. If you want to
buy it, you could buy it from somewhere else. It's
not them. But if you sent her off, visit if
you want it for the weekend, simply see it as
a place to go. Okay, Well, do you know I
want to tell you you would think that my low
would end with COVID. You know how you say like
you had the post show come downs. I also had
the post show come downs, but for very very different reasons,
and I can't be sure exactly which reason is the
(06:19):
main reason. But this also contributed to it. So we
got back to Sydney Airport from Brisbane. It's a short flight, guys,
one and a half hour flight. We land, we go
to the baggage carousel and Matt's bag comes off, Marley's
bag comes off, the spare bag that we packed for
the kids, shit comes off. And they were all the
first bags off the carousel anyway. So then I was like, Okay,
(06:41):
my bag's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Okay, it didn't, guys,
it never came. I still don't have my bag. Laura
is still waiting to the carousel.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It's been four days.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's been five days now. My bag has not come.
We went to go and see them at the counter
where they help you, and they're like, oh yeah, I'm
so sorry. It's definitely still in Brisbane. It'll be on
the next flight and we'll get it delivered to your house.
So anyway, get home. It's like nine o'clock at night.
The fucking bag has not arrived. So I'm on the phone.
They're like, not a problem, tomorrow, it'll get delivered anyway.
(07:11):
Tomorrow comes. The bag does not come. Day three, I'm
calling again. Day three, I find out that they don't
even know where the fucking bag is. The bag is gone.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh my god, the bag's in Frankfort.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
The bag has disappeared. And the new update is, look,
we can't actually locate the bag, so once we locate
the bag, we'll let you know that we've located the bag.
So then I get a call the next day and
they're like, hey, just letting you know. We think we've
located the bag. And he's like, but we need to
know what's in your bag, and I was like okay.
So I started going through all the things were in there.
(07:43):
I was like, the kids. I've got Halloween costumes in there.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The kids are in there. I've got two toddlers in there.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Can I please get them delivered back as a priority.
I was like, the kids' costumes are in there. I
was like, there's recording equipment in there, because some of
our recording equipment's in there. There's clothes. I was rattling
off all this stuff, and then the guy on the
phone goes, is there any female personal items in the bag?
And I was like female personal items? I was like,
I didn't pack that, and you gotta bear with me
(08:12):
because I very very much have COVID. I was very
fucking tired. And I was like, I didn't pack what
my dildo.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I was like, I.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Don't think so, and he was like, yeah, female personal
items and I was like, I was like, maybe it's purple.
And then I started describing to him what my vibrator
looked like. The poor guy on the phone, he sounded
so confused, and then I was confused, and then he
was confused. He was asking me if I had a
hair dryer or any makeup in the bag. What then,
(08:41):
just say, do you have a hair dryer or makeup?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now? Do you have a personal item? You're like, shit,
did Matt slip that in? Did Matt want to get
freaky this weekend?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It turns out that my vibrator is still safely in
my top drawer in the bathroom, and.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It was not in the suitcase.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But I described it exactly to him, so if he
needed to look for it, it's not in the bag.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Really like, it has four speeds, five vibrations, purple, It
has a little sucky bit at the front pulse and
suck action that is so funny, you know what, I
don't get. So they lied to you twice because they're like, oh, yes, man,
we've got it, it'll be on the next flight back.
You didn't have it. Then two days later they're like, yeah, yes,
we've found it. We have found it. Was coming back.
(09:19):
You still don't have it. Do you actually think they
have it?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
If it ever shows up again, I'll be so thrilled.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's also just such unfortunate timing because so we all
have recording equipment, right, but it's always a backup. We
don't always need it because we're always together, And this
is the only time we needed it is today because
you guys all have COVID, I can't have you come
near me because I'm egg freezing again. We all needed
the equipment. Is the one time the equipment's literally in Germany,
(09:45):
like where is it?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I live in hope that today is the day that
it will arrive on my doorstep. Well, as a.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Little update, the reason I was really really adamant that
these guys no one in my life comes anywhere near
me right now is today is day one again of
of the egg freezing cycle. I am doing another cycle
now of egg freezing, and I probably won't go into
it as much as I have in the past because
I feel like I've done it this is my third time.
You guys, you know I have updated you a lot
(10:13):
in the past, but I'll keep you posted along the
way with how it's going. But it is day one
today and the last one I did. The reason I'm
doing it again because I get a lot of questions
about why do you keep doing it and why are
you doing it again so soon? And that's because I
was really unsuccessful in the last time and I didn't
get any in the end. They didn't make it. The
ones I thought I had weren't healthy enough. I will
(10:34):
talk about that properly once this cycle's done, maybe next month,
once it's all over, I'll get into that a little
bit more, because there's a few more aspects I want
to get into it and I want to talk about
in relation to that, but now it's not the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I know that for you, it feels like you speak
about the egg freezing process a lot. But also I
know that last time was so incredibly disappointing for you,
and when you say that, people ask you why are
you're doing it again. I don't think it's so much
why you're doing it again, But what will make this
time different in terms of, like, how's the approach going
to be different. What are they going to change in
order to give you more chance of getting more eggs?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, this is actually interesting. I actually ran into a
girl in the park us. I was at a dog
park with Delilah and there was a girl, Laura. Hi,
Laura from Melbourne. She was just literally here visiting her
sister's new baby. She came to the Melbourne show. She like,
she came up to me. She was like, oh my god,
I got to Melburn show. It was amazing. And we
started talking about egg freezing and she said something interesting.
She's like, oh, you're doing it again kind of thing.
(11:27):
And I was like, yeah, you know, because I wasn't
successful last time. And she said, oh, I've often she's
thirty four, and she said, I've often thought about if
I should do it because she's single, But then I
always just think, you know, let's risk it for the biscuit.
Let's see what the universe gives me. And I said, look,
I'm all for that. I said, been all honesty. If
there is any single and this is what I want
to say to everyone listening. I was like, if there's
(11:47):
any little tiny part of you that thinks you might
want a child one day in the future, whether that's
alone or maybe you're not going to meet your partner
till forty whatever that is, if there's any part of
you that wants a baby in the future, I was like,
go to your doctor and at least start the testing.
Look at freezing, because the difference in me in just
two years. I did the first lot two years ago
(12:09):
and I got a few eggs on ice. I think
I ended up with fifteen. Two years later, I did
it and I couldn't even get one. And I think
that that's a really important lesson. I don't want to
say it's a lesson, but it was a real wake
up call. And I don't want to tell women that
to scare them, but I want to tell them so
that they're armed with the knowledge that they can do
something about it before it is too late, if they're
in the same position as I am. Because I do
(12:31):
have friends that went a little bit later in their thirties,
even early thirties. They're like, oh, maybe I'll go and
do it, and they couldn't get anything. And that is
just that's just being realistic, and it's not to scare people,
but it's just taking it into your own control. So
that is the reason I'm doing it so close together,
is because your eggs every single month that you age
(12:51):
and every period, you lose eggs and they don't come back.
Now you do have hundreds of thousands of eggs, but
at some point they deplete. That's what we go into menopause.
That's the whole thing. It's not even a guarantee. It's
still only a backup. It's still only maybe the eggs
might not work, but it's better to have that option
down the track. So that is why I'm doing it again.
And what they're doing differently this time for me is
(13:11):
they're giving me a lot more hormones, so they're giving
me a higher dose, which could potentially put me over
into hyper ovarian syndrome, which is not good. And that's
what I had a little bit of the first time
when I did get a few eggs. So this process.
I don't know if you followed me, for those that
followed me a month or two ago, when I did it,
I was actually so fine, and I remember telling you guys,
(13:34):
I was like until the last day or two, it's cruisy.
I feel like I was like not really noticing much
the last two days are really uncomfortable, but this time
is going to be different because they are going to
pump me full of a lot more to try and
get as many out as they can. So I don't
imagine this next fortnight is going to be overly enjoyable,
but it's what I think is a small price to pay.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Okay, Well, speaking of hormones, So I came across something
on the internet in the last couple of time. Now,
I sent this in the group chat to both produce
Kisha and to Britt And there's this woman online who
I follow. Her name is Lisa Bill You Bill you.
I don't know if that's exactly how you say her name,
but she's the founder of a company called Women of Impact.
She is the co founder of another company called Impact Theory.
(14:17):
I've been trying to get her on the podcast for
so long, and I would say that she oh, like,
she's probably not going to come on the podcast after
I say this. She almost brought us on Toxic Positivity
because she's so like, rah rah rah, you can achieve anything.
And the thing that's amazing about her is that she
actually has achieved the things that she sets out and says,
(14:37):
you know, you can achieve anything. Her and her husband
they've been together for like something crazy like eighteen years.
They don't have kids, but they have these incredibly successful businesses,
and she has really insightful conversations with people, all different
types of people, similar conversations to the ones that we have.
There was something that I came across on her Instagram.
It's now had close to thirty million views, insane, and
(14:59):
it was all around and how women fall in love
when they have sex and men don't necessarily feel the same.
I'm going to play it with for you guys.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Fun fact for you. Women release oxytocin whenever they have sex.
Men release testosterone whenever they have sex, but only oxytocin
if they're in love with the woman.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
It's an evolutionary mechanism, but it's the explanation for the
fact that if a woman sleeps with a man enough times,
she's going to start falling in love, whereas for a man,
it's not necessarily going to happen. And you know, that
is the basis of so many relationship issues. You know
you've heard it before. Let's keep it casual, but we
are having sex. The woman kind of thinks at some
(15:39):
point he's going to change his mind and we're going
to be in a relationship. But if that's what the
guy's told you from the start, physiologically, chemically, it's not
going to change for him.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Okay, Now this caused quite a bit of debate in
our little group chat. The woman who is speaking there,
her name is doctor Taras Sward. She is a neuroscientist,
but she's also she's kind of moved into more spiritual
healing and manifestation, all different things. So the reason why
it caused a bit of conversation was because we are
unsure of the validity of it. But fuck, it rains
(16:11):
true for my twenties.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, And the reason was we say we're unsure of
the validity and this neuroscientist. I love that she's a neuroscientist.
Kisha and I will talk about this. Obviously incredible, she's
a doctor, she has a PhD. She's amazing. She's dedicated
her whole life to study. But then she has transitioned
into manifestation, achievement boards wellness as a holistic sense, which
(16:33):
I also love, and a lot of her stuff is
a culmination of both. Like she takes a little bit
of the neuroscience and a little bit of this. So
I don't know if what she has said about this
whole sex thing is one hundred percent accurate. I think
a bit of bes leaked into a bit of a Can.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We stop, let's stop, let's stop taking Instagram as though
it's gospel, and just appreciate that I fell in love
with a guy who had a mattress on the floor
and used to sleep on his clothes. Because I had
sex with him enough.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Time, law resented to me. Law resented it to me,
and she goes, oh my god, after all this time,
my whole life is explained by this neuroscientist. Everyone I fuck,
I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Marry literally literally, I am not joking. I could not
even be remotely attracted to a guy or like, you know,
kind of think he's good looking, but like, no part
of his personality or his life or anything to do
with him did I think was a good match for me.
And then if I had sex with him enough times,
I'd be like, maybe I.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Could don't take this the wrong way, because you know,
I love you and you're my really good friend. But
I am not convinced that that is just because of
what this neuroscientist has said, I don't think it's just
these endorphins and whatever fucking other hormone comes out.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh, you're calling me crazy. I think it's also because
you had calling me codependent.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
You had attachment issues, which we've established, which they we've
talked about, You've written a book. You definitely do have
attachment issues, and you did. I'm not having a laugh,
but you did want to find that safety in a
partner and somebody, and I sometimes wonder if if it
was more that side, like you were like, oh, I
could make this person my partner and and then I
would have someone for a while.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Literally. I feel sorry for any of my exes who
ever listened to this podcast. I'm sure they don't. I'm
sure they don't give a flying fuck, but if they did. Okay,
you were all great guys, you have great personalities.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I loved you all.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But if they did listen to it, they would think
that I hated them. I definitely didn't. I just knew
that they were terrible matches for me at the time.
But yet I really tried to shove a triangle in
a square.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, and you It's funny because when you sent me
this you were like, you know, this is this is lol, Lo,
this is what I did? Is this what you did
as well? All the science is true. And when I
look back at mine, I actually was so opposite to that,
Like I would even last year before I met Ben,
you know, there was that one person that I was
hooking up with, who on paper, but on paper like
great guy, and on paper he was incredible. Like on paper,
(18:48):
he didn't a lot of Bob when you're right at
down Pate, he on hot on.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A guy who goes out, gets blind drunk and then
rocks up at your house in the middle of the
night yelling Britney, I love you and then buys your
flowers the next day to apologize and then does the
exact same thing the following weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Is not a great guy, hang on, all I mean
on paper, he's got a great job, he's attractive, he
was funny, he was driven of age, of similar age,
which I think is important because I always day down,
oh he was. He was younger, but not that much,
not that much younger. No, But my point was like
that didn't happen for me, and it was the opposite.
(19:30):
But I have definitely been that person in the past,
and one particular person comes to mind. One person that
I was in a situationship with for years, like years
of my life, and I entered that as a situation ship.
I entered that being like, don't fall in love with me,
and he was like, no, I won't. And I was like,
oh no, but really don't. He's like, no, I'm really
not gonna. And then and then I fell in love
(19:52):
with him, and I kept being like, I'm gonna be
that stupid woman that's like, I know you'll change for me,
Like I know if I just keep doing everything and
being the perfect per of you, that one day you'll
wake up and be like, oh my gosh, she's the
perfect person and I'm in love. And it never happened.
And I tried to do that. I tried to change
his mind for three years, and it never happened.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I think every I mean, I shouldn't say everyone can
relate to this, because obviously we've all walked different lives,
but I think there's so many women who can relate
to having sex. You had that nice little cudlor afterwards
and you're like, oh, you know, you weren't really into
it beforehand, but then you're cuddling and you're in their
little man's space and you're like this And I'm speaking
more obviously for heterosexual relationships because that's the only one
(20:31):
that I can speak to from my own personal experience.
And you're there and then you're like, oh, maybe this
is maybe I am falling in love. Maybe maybe I
am falling in love with this person. And then you
have a bit of space and you realize it was
all a fucking lie. Your hormones life.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
What's the quickest point, Like, when you look back at
all the people you've fucked orked up with, what was
the quickest from like when you met them and slept
with them for the first time to when you actually
started to think, like you pictured your marriage you're wearing
and your life, Like, what was the quickest?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It wasn't because I had those big, like instant connection
relationships where like I wanted to marry them before it
even slept with them, So those ones don't count. I'm
talking about the one the.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Whole mane wasn't even released yet, the sex Tall Man
wasn't even out. I was just crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I just matched with him on Tinder. I'm talking about
the ones where they catch you by surprise, like you're
actually not that into the person you've gone on a date.
It's very like unassuming you're not really into the date,
but you do want to have sex with them because
they're attractive and there's like something about them, but you
also know that they're a terrible match for you. And
then all of a sudden you start thinking, maybe you
can make it work, and I have done that many times,
(21:36):
and guess what, you never can make it work. It
is the sex and it is lying to you. So
just stay aware and stay conscious of what you're doing.
Right and if anyone's listening to this right now and
you're in the midst of maybe you've had sex with
them four times? Four times a danger zone?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
If you hit four times, you're get in some feelings.
I get three is danger like a hat trip.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
How did the feelings change with Matt because that was
a different situation. You had three months in the house
of no sex and having to date him, but you
already knew you loved him at the end. Did the
love feelings change when you had sex?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Do you know what I spoke about this? What show was?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
It? Was it?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Adelaide?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
No Perth?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Maybe Perth we had an ask guncut question which was
around toxic relationships and like going back and forth to
a toxic relationship. And I can't remember the exact context
of the question, but it was kind of around the
person who was in the audience was going back to
their ex even though they were, you know, had been
dating new people and had like the opportunity of being
in healthy relationships, they kept going back to their toxic exes.
(22:37):
And one of the things I have come to realize
about my relationship with Matt over the years, and this
is probably through this podcast, It's through reading a lot
of self help books. It's around like understanding my attachment
styles doing all the fucking work. Is now I am
in a very healthy and secure relationship with the men
who I adore and I love. But Matt is not
(22:58):
drama filled. There is nothing about him that is drama field.
He is consistent, he is kind, he is caring, He's
all the things that I would have thought were boring
back in the day because it didn't flame my need
for this like toxic like crazy intense love, right, But
boring is healthy, Yeah, totally. And I would have met
him in real life and been and I'm sure I
have said this before. I would have met him in
(23:19):
real life and been like, this is a fucking boring relationship,
you know, if it had not been on the Bachelor.
But the environment of the Bachelor satisfied all of the
things that I needed in terms of toxicity.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It gave me the feelings of volatility, It gave me
the feelings of uncertainty. It made me really want to
latch onto the relationship. All the things that I have
felt in the past when I dated, my toxic relationships,
my toxic x's, all the things that I unconsciously craved.
I got them. I just didn't get them from Matt.
I got them from the environment of the Bachelor, which
is so fucked up when you actually say those things
(23:53):
out loud and you unpack that of yourself. But I guess,
you know, it's been seven years now, I have kids,
we've grown as a couple, and I can look back
on that period and go as much as I was
in love with Matt, I also had that absolute toxic
need met by the environment of the Bachelor.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
So what Laura's saying is she wants to back up
this neuroscientist that you fucking fall in love if you're
a woman, but not if you're a man.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, I reckon. Well, I mean, look, who knows. I
think that there's validity to it. I would love to
know your opinions if you feel like you have been
in a similar situation, or maybe I'm out here on
an island or by myself with my COVID in isolation.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, we had some absolute bangers written in for Accidentally Unfiltered,
and what I've started doing is reading them out to
Bend just for fun and like just seeing what his
responses are. And that's the one I pick. So that's
how I picked, Just so you know, Laura, that's how
I picked the accdently I'm filtered today. Well, I always
pick a few of what I think are funny and
then I read him to Bend and I just gauge
his response. Anyway, this is the one he was attracted to.
(24:52):
Last night, my husband asked me to investigate an ingrown
hair in his.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Bumhole, as you do not around the bumhole. No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
To a hemorrhoid. And he's like, I swear to it's
a hemorrh.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I feel like the language in this is a bit off.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No ingrown hair in his bum hoole. That's what she wrote. Okay,
to help the investigation, he wanted me to take a
photo so I could show him said ingrown hair pimple
thing to see if he needed to see GP. As
in the past, he's had to have one surgically removed.
Moving forward, I'm in bed catching up on my messages
for the day and I saw that my mother in
(25:28):
law wanted to see photos from the day with our kids.
So what did I do? Yep, you guess it. I said,
my mother in Laura closed up photo of her son's
hairy butthole instead.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Of a cute bite all that kids.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She didn't reply, but she's called me six times this
morning and I'm avoiding her help.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Now. We wanted to take much more of a serious
tone with this part of the episode, and that is
because you guys know that we never shy away from
hard conversations on here, and something that we have spoken
about so many many times over the past four and
a half years of doing this podcast. It's something that
both Britta and I are incredibly passionate about is speaking
up about domestic violence and recently, as you would know
(26:11):
if you're within Australia. If you're one of our overseas listeners,
you may not have heard the story Lily James. She
is a school teacher and she was murdered recently by
a coworker and someone who she may have had some
sort of romantic connection to. His name is Paul Disson.
And the reason why we want to speak about this
is because Lily is one of five women who's been
killed in the last nine days, which really goes to
(26:32):
show what an issue domestic violence is within this country,
and it's such a stain on this country. It's something
that has not talked about enough. Now, something that came
up in the news in the last week and something
we really wanted to talk about is the headmaster of
the Shaw School, doctor John Collier. He's the head master
of the exclusive private boys' school in which Paul Thisison attended,
and he wrote a newsletter that was distributed to parents
(26:54):
and to teachers. That newsletter was titled Looking in the
Face of Savagery. But within that newsletter he talked about
how Thissen, who is a murderer, was an absolute delight
of a student, and he went on to say things
like he appeared to be just like the best of us.
An hour before he committed the atrocity, he was speaking
in a relaxed, friendly mode with stuff at that school.
(27:14):
He was not a monster. Rather, in the last five
hours of his life, he committed a monstrous act which
was a complete contradiction to what everyone who knew him
observed in the rest of his short life. What actually
happened to Paul is that he went on to suicide
after he killed Lily. This has caused so much outrage.
Chanelle Kontos, who we've had on the podcast before, she
(27:37):
is the creator of Teach Us Consent, has spoken out
it's this idea that he had a lapse in judgment,
that all of a sudden, he had this moment in
time where he acted out and behaved in a way
that was not in line with who he is as
a person. And I think the really big thing to
drive home here is that good men who were brought
up with great morals, who do not abuse women in
(27:59):
their life, do not just switch and murder people. It
doesn't happen. And framing him as though he was this
great man with great morals just like the best of us,
just devalues What has happened to Lily.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
The thing that got me is the way the head
principle had said it was like a moment of mental disintegration,
like it really was his spur of the moment thing. Now,
I was reading something that really reiterated this. Rvette Vignando.
She's the chief executive of anti domestic violence organization at
Mary's House in Australia. She went on to comment and
she said, I commend doctor Collier for trying to reach
(28:34):
young men and make sense of the situation through his faith,
but the language he used was not helpful. One thing
that stood out to me was quite jarring to read
someone describe after such a horrific murder, the alleged perpetrator
is described as an absolute delight. This language is not helpful.
I do resonate with what she's saying here, because I
(28:55):
do think that doctor Collier didn't think he was doing
anything wrong. He was trying and he has come out
afterwards and he said, look, when about this the wrong way?
I'm sorry. I was just trying to express my shock
at the situation. But this terminology isn't it and it
doesn't fucking work.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think it then comes back to this idea, right
that just because you are friends with someone or you
think you know someone, that they couldn't possibly be the
type of person who would do something like this. And
the reality is is that the types of people who
would do something like this aren't walking around the streets
looking like outward monsters. You're not going to spot them
crossing the road and be like, oh, that's someone who
(29:30):
would do such a horrific act like this. It happens
in homes everywhere. It happens in homes, and I'm not
talking about murder, but I am talking about domestic violence.
It happens with people that you would never expect. It
is not just the othering of people who are poor,
or who are mentally unwell, or who there's some sort
of depravity. It happens everywhere. And I think it's the
(29:50):
language of oh, he was just like the best of
us that minimizes how common it is in households of
people who look outwardly normal, who look outwardly like they
have their stuff together, who look normally like they can
hold down a great job and they're handsome and attractive
and successful. Because that's the issue, right, is this language
once again sort of says that it happened in a
(30:12):
moment of weakness. And the big point that Chanel Kontos made,
and this is what she had to say on it,
It is symbolic of a much larger problem. The whole
point is that normal people do these crimes. It's problematic
to try and other it people who perpetuate violence, because
by doing that, we are allowing people who exhibit normal
behaviors in other forms of life to go unnoticed without accountability.
(30:33):
And I think that that absolutely speaks volumes because in
this moment, there is not a need to try and
justify what a good person he was up until the
point that he died. He's not deserving of that with
what he's done, and I just think that all that
does is it minimizes once again what Lily has gone through.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Avettvignando the executive of the Anti Domestic Violence here in Sydney.
She said, they are out there and living among us
and living in some of the most privileged parts of Sydney,
all across the northern suburbs where the majority of our
clients who are victims live. The perpetrators are surgeons, academics, plumbers,
leaders in business, Their mates and friends rarely suspect what
(31:11):
he's going on behind the scenes. So that is someone
that heads up an anti domestic violence organization here openly
coming out and saying, these are everyday people that you
probably know in your day to day life. They make
up some of our biggest victims. Partners of these people,
people in these relationships. It really does just drive home
(31:32):
that these aren't your typical monsters quote unquote walking around.
Of course. I mean, I'm going to call them a
monster for sure, but they are the everyday people. And
that's why it's a problem, and that's why it does
take away from it when you come out and say, oh,
he was such an amazing person. He was a prefect,
he was so great in all these other aspects, but
he just had a moment of mental disintegrations.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
This statistic one in five women since the age of
fifteen have been sexually assaulted. Now, I know that we're
talking about sexual assault here and which is different to
domestic violence, but the numbers for that are very high
as well. I can't remember who said it to me,
but it really got me thinking those numbers are so high,
like that's twenty percent. One in five women have been
sexually assaulted by the age of fifteen. Everybody knows someone
(32:16):
who has experienced sexual assault, whether you have experienced it yourself,
or whether it is your friend, or it is your sister,
or it is someone in your life. Everybody knows someone
who has experienced physical violence at the hands of a man,
whether it is yourself, whether it is your sister, whether
it is someone who you know. But nobody knows the
person who does it. Nobody. I can't name one man
(32:38):
in my life who I would say, yes, you, you
are a perpetrator. But the reality is statistics would show
that there are people in my life who are perpetrators.
And that's the big thing to think about is that
we never think it is the people within our circles.
We never think it is the people who we are
friends with or who we think we know. But people
(32:58):
can show who they are at face value and be
very different behind closed doors and within relationships. That is
such an alarming thing when you actually start to break
down why there's this mismatch within society. But also it
comes down to media, and it comes down to the
way in which we talk about it as well, because
even the language within news articles is so minimizing of
(33:19):
what happens to victims. I know there was a lot
of uproar last week after the Daily Telegraph article came out.
And if you aren't familiar with the article, I'll read
you the headline, after school sports job for Lily James
and Paul Fisen led to horror Sidney CBD murder. If
you were to only read that headline, you would assume
that her working in an after school sports is what
(33:41):
led to her dying, not the fact that she was
actually murdered by someone who she worked with.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, what led to her murder was she was bludgeoned
to death by somebody that she worked with. It had
nothing to do with the after school like. It's just
the fucking language that drives me insaying she's twenty one
years old at her place of work by someone she
may or may not have been in a very brief
romantic relationship with. Let's call a spade a spade. He
murdered her. That's it. That's the headline. Like, it has
(34:07):
nothing to do with how unfortunate she her timing was
that she had this after school job.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
There's this great Instagram account which I mean, can be
my vibe for this week a recommendation. Her name is
Jane Gilmore Underscore aus So. Jane Gilmour Underscore oz It.
Once upon a time used to be called fixed It. Jane.
She is a journalist and what she does is she
goes on and she rewrites the headlines so that they
actually describe what happened rather than this sort of like
(34:32):
fluffy pseudo journalism that all it does is is protect
the perpetrators rather than supporting the victims. So Jane's been
doing this since twenty fourteen, and the whole point and
the reason why she got into it was to try
and rewrite the victim blaming that happens, because you'll see
it in media, and it happens all the time. It'll
be words like scorned lover, or it'll be like they
(34:53):
were a good father, and then all of a sudden,
they've done these awful things, and they'll talk about the
fact that the couple were in a sexual relationship, as
if to say that because you're in a sexual relationship
with someone that they should have some ownership over the
things that they do to you. What Jane wrote in
regards to this headline from the Sydney Telegraph She's crossed
it out and she's written Paul Thissen's decision to kill
(35:14):
Ee James was the only thing that led to her murder.
He chose to take her life and all the possibilities
of her future from her and the people who loved her.
Erasing his responsibility for her murder is a repellent and
cowardly act of support for a murderer. And I just
think it's so important for us to continue to have
these types of conversations and to call out not just
(35:36):
victim blaming, but almost trying to soften the monstrous act
of someone like Paul Thisson and what he has done.
One of the big things, and one of the reasons
why it's so important is because it's so multi layered.
We're never going to be able to combat domestic violence
until we start to attack it on all levels. And
(35:57):
that does include the way in which the media speak
about it, as you said, brit like it came from
a good place, but that is irrelevant. And like this
doctor John Collier sending out this newsletter to try and
explain to people that you know, this was a good
man who had a lapse in judgment. Murdering someone is
not a lapse in judgment. It is irrelevant if he
appeared to be a good man up and until that point.
(36:20):
And I think that we almost need to unpack the why,
the why do we need to defend the why do
we need to speak about this person was a good father,
this person was a good man, this person was a
good whatever it was great at their job or successful
to try and make sense of domestic violence, because I
think we really need to get to a place of
(36:41):
society where we accept and we validate exactly what you
said earlier, brit that it is successful people. It is
normal quote unquote people who do these things, and that
is what makes them monsters.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. I think where John Collier went wrong was it's
a bit of a read the room and know your
audience and know your platform situation. And I think what
he said is a conversation that he would have had
inside in his home with his partner. That's what it
would have been. Expressing the shock that you knew someone
that could have done this is something that you would
say to someone very close to you, not on a
public platform, not to every single family, every single student
(37:16):
at that school, because it sends the wrong message.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, I know, but it goes deeper than that, right,
because that's you nailed it. That's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Conversation that you would have with your friends or your
family or people around you, like, oh my god, you know,
there's such an amazing person. How did this happen? But
the fact that we think that they were an amazing person.
And that's the thing is these layers existed in him already.
He was already somebody who was misogynistic. He already had
to have had these sorts of ideologies in some way
(37:46):
within him to behave like that, because good people don't
bludgeon people to death with a hammer. It doesn't happen.
So it's like the fact that you can't see that
and you still need to write a newsletter to say,
oh my god, it came to such a surprise. It's
not a mental break in this person. It is part
of the dna of who they are and how they
(38:06):
have been raised and what they have been exposed to
as a person. And I think that that is how
deep misogyny runs through our society, is that we don't
accept that some people just are that. And that's what
makes me feel so fucking mad.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
It actually sort of ties back to what we were
speaking about last week, Laura, and that's how the government
is bringing in this education for school kids starting at
age five surrounding toxic masculinity and respect for women, which
we had the conversation last week. Is it enough, you know,
is it teaching a five year old to treat women
better enough? And should that all fall on the teachers?
(38:41):
And the place that we got to is, well, you
know what, any education at all, and any small step
in the right direction is better than nothing. And whilst
shouldn't necessarily completely fall on the teachers, like we did say,
we don't really have another option. And what I want
to say by that is we can't control what children
are learning in their households in pride, but we can
try and educate the adults in their life for sure.
(39:03):
But what we can try to control is the curriculum
and what they're being taught at school. But it does
make you think now with this head teacher, doctor John Collier,
that's released his newsletter, is that maybe it is really
important for the education to be hitting the teachers and
the principles and those people in power as well, because
they need to learn how to reuse this language in
order to teach the school kids. So it's almost like
(39:24):
it has to start from the inside out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Absolutely, I mean it's generational, right, and it's been consistently
passed down, and that is why it is such a
slow and steady slog to try and make any change.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Well, you know, we never finished an episode without our
suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light
of the week. Might suck happened very late last night.
You guys know that I'm a sucker for staying up
really late in binge watching TV shows because I can't
turn them off anyway. I was really really tired and
we had to get up early to do the records today.
And right before I got into bed atbably twelve thirty
(40:01):
at night, I had a full drink bottle of water
on my bedside table. I spilled the entire It was
like a soda stream bottle, so it has a really
big opening lid. I spilled the soda stream bottle onto
my bed, but didn't know because I knocked it over
with the pillow, so it's not like it was a
big clunk and I didn't see it drop, and the
whole bottle the whole leater bottle went all over my bed,
(40:22):
all through my sheets, all into my mattress right at
twelve thirty night before I wanted to get into bed.
So you know what I did? You just slept on
other stock, just slept on the other side. Yeah. I
was like, that's a I just like laid a towel
on it, and I was like, that's a tomorrow problem.
I'm going to sleep on the other side.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
No, do you know what? Like, I'm like, no, I
will have that stuck. I will take it. You can
pour a fucking bottle of water in my bed. You
can have COVID.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I'm sorry, Sorry Laura that you're sicker than me
this week.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Sorry that my suck? Is that? Take my fucking suck?
Take it?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
What I is?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Your sweet?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
My sweet? Is that My parents, my mum and dad
and we've just locked it in, have decided to come
to Scotland and for Christmas with me. Sherry's over there,
so they're going to be meeting Ben's family. It's going
to be this huge event. So they've actually just like
locked and loaded that in, which is really exciting. I
don't think they've been over to the UK well, they've
never been to Scotland.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Actually, how many weeks until you go? We go?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't know. Know the date is maybe five or six weeks.
When's Christma? I don't know. As soon as we go
on radio on holiday break, I am out the door
over to see my lover. But my parents are coming,
so it's like all our families are going to be
meeting and the sisters and it's going to be really cool.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Okay, Well, my suck for the week should be pretty
pretty obvious. I think I would just like my bag back,
Please Virgin give me my bag. My suck for the
week is my bag going missing? There are lots of
things in there that I really want. COVID has not
been great. I wanted to go down and see my grandparents,
like my Nana and my mum Dan and Woollongong, but
(41:50):
obviously I couldn't do that. So my suck is just
an amgamation of lost baggage and COVID and two children
who I think. The only thing that they said the
entire weekend was I'm bored. I'm bored, which I get it.
It was boring, and also I was so sick that
the last thing I wanted to do was play tea party.
(42:12):
So I also felt like a completely shit mum. So
my wee can sucked. But my sweet for the week
is so so many of you when we did our
meat and greets gave Britt and I like letters or
so many bits and pieces, like we got bottles of wine,
and we got hits, and we've got friendship bracelets, and
we got, oh my god, the invitations to weddings, Like.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
We got really nice, very localized like lip bums and
moisturizeres and chocolates.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, and this one girl that gave us go just
like little animal earrings. Like honestly, you guys were so sweet.
So many of you brought us little things to show
us the ways in which you've appreciated the podcast. And
I sat down yesterday and I started reading through all
the letters that we got given. And I've got to
pass them on to brit because somehow they ended up
in my handbag. So I took them all home and
Britt doesn't have them.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
I also have some for you as well.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I was in tears yes today reading these. You guys
are amazing, We are so grateful, and I know that
I've said it so much over the last little bit.
But receiving that and like being able to touch base
with you all and like, you know, see you guys
in the flesh, hear your stories. It's honestly been so
incredible and so that kind of continued my little life
(43:20):
uncut live high that I've had. And maybe that's what
got me through my low in terms of, like, you know,
feeling as though the whole thing was over, was being
able to read through all of your incredible letters. So
for those of you who took time to write one,
thank you so much. It means everything to us. And yeah,
they're like things I'll keep for the rest of my life.
Like it's so beautiful, cute, cute, that is it. Guys. Anyway,
(43:41):
we will be back tomorrow. We have a fucking amazing
interview for you tomorrow. We're interviewing Sam Fisher. Now I
know you guys have heard of him because we've spoken
about him so much over the last couple of weeks.
He's the City's Going to Break My Heart singer. But
his story and his vulnerability in this episode, I loved
it so much. So some of the things that say
spoke about and I loved his candidness about this. He
(44:03):
spoke about going bald and going and getting hair transplants
and what it meant for him for his insecurities. How
as women we can sometimes downplay and diminish the insecurities
that men have around baldness. I thought that that was
so interesting.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, he's also very He's just a very funny person.
So even when he talks about something serious like his
borderline comedian, even when he does his songs and openness,
it's like a stand up comedy piece. But what I
found really interesting with Sam is he speaks a lot
about a toxic relationship with a narcissistic parent, because he
has had a very tumultuous relationship with his father, and
he speaks so openly about that. He's so vulnerable about that,
(44:42):
but he also puts a little bit of light into
it as well and takes something positive from the situation.
But I haven't actually had a conversation with someone in
a long time that was so open about that sort
of relationship with a narcissistic parent, and I found it
really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, I totally agree, and I think most of the
time when we talk about but people who have cut
contact with their parents. Usually people are really guarded because
there's still this responsibility almost feeling of like I don't
want to upset my parents, even though I don't talk
to them anymore, Like, people are still very guarded with
sharing that conversation because it's so personal and Sam is
(45:17):
so giving in this chat. So if you have a
complicated relationship with your parent or parents, I think that
this is an episode you will get so much out
of and I can't wait for you guys to listen
to it. So that is coming tomorrow and that is
it from us, guys.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Don't forget so your mum, to you, Dad, Telly Dog,
tell your friends and share a love because we love
Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands
were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders
past and present.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back
to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany, and I don't want to brag,
but it's probably going to come back to bite me.
But I'm the only healthy person left in this Life
Uncut podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Excuse me, excuse me. I think you are getting a
little bit ahead of yourself because it could be coming
for you. Brittany Hockley.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
As soon as I actually said it, I'm like, you idiot,
because I actually believe in that shit. I believe in
jinxne and stuff. And as soon as it's coming down
of my mouth, I was like, oh, I'm going to
get so sick.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
No.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
We finished the live show tours. It was incredible. The
next day everyone in the team, Mitch Jury produced a Kisha.
Laura burn All started to feel a little bit under
the weather and then everyone got COVID.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It was from the highs of the Highs to the
lows of the lows. Kish got it first, and then
I got it. I went down like a sack of shit,
and then Mitch. So it was kind of just like
a domino effect that happened.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, and I was on the plane with Keisha, so produce,
Keisha and I were flying home together. You were staying
up a little bit long the Laura with the kids
and Matt, and then Mitch flew on a different plane
and I had to sit basically next Sekisha the entire time.
And still somehow I didn't I don't know what's going on.
I think I had it a few months ago in Scotland,
so maybe, like my immunity is still up from it.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This time it's hit me ka. I feel like I've
been transported back to twenty twenty one. I spent my
entire weekend trapped in the house with the kids. Not
a big deal, it's only two days, I get it.
Twenty twenty one was very, very different to that. But
what happened was I stayed in Brisbane for an extra day.
I thought I was just tired from like the live shows,
you know. I thought that that was just a normal
level of tiredness. Totally I got to the airport, I
(01:58):
went to check in and I walked up to the
front encounter and the lovely virgin staff that was standing
there goes to me. She looked shocked, like she looked
visibly shocked. She went and I thought it was because
maybe she recognized Matt and I, but then she goes, oh,
you look so different to your Instagram. You look really tired.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
No she did not, she did. You can't tell someone
that they look different to their Instagram unless it means
you look better.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
She was like, you look like shit, and I was like, yeah, anyway,
I knew I didn't feel one hundred percent. I thought
I was just really tired, Like I just had really
this real body tiredness. I didn't feel sick. And then
when I was on the plane, I started to feel itchy.
This is a fucking weird symptom, but like my face
started to feel itchy, my arms started to feel itchy.
And I went to the bathroom and I was like, oh,
(02:46):
I look like actual shit.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
I understand now, I don't remember itchiness. I'm just trying
to think I've had it twice, but I don't remember
ever having that itchiness feeling. I wonder if that's a
new addition to the twenty twenty three straight of COVID.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
All lucky me. I don't know. I feel like for me,
I've never had like I mean, I have had the
traditional symptoms I've had, like the not being able to taste,
not being able to smell, but like this started off
really weird, which is why I didn't realize what it
was at the time and then when I got home. Also,
very sorry to anyone who was on that fucking virgin flight.
I'm deeply, deeply apologetic. I got home and I did
a test at like maybe aout four or five hours
(03:22):
after I got home, and those two lines came up
so quick. They came up faster than when I did
a pregnanicy test. Like they were like, Bam, you have COVID,
so the live show tour is over. How do you
feel now?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's like, oh, you've got COVID, so it doesn't count.
But I went on a proper like I don't want
to put myself in this this basket. But a lot
of artists call it like I like the adrenaline come
down post show post tour. Sam Fisher was talking about
it that it's like it's a real thing. And I
think I had it for a few days. I went
complete hermit, introverted, didn't want to talk to anyone, and
it was a really weird feeling. And I was like,
(03:54):
what is this feeling? And Sam Fisher was like, Oh,
it's just like a post tour adrenaline dump all your adrenaline,
all the highs out, and you're just like flatlining.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Wait did you feel sad that it was over or
did you just feel like you had nothing left in
the tank?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I can't be sure. I think part of me was
happy it was over so that we could calm down,
but then part of me was really sad it was
over and it was so incredible and we can't wait
to do it again next year. Actually we wait, wait, wait,
a huge thank you? Shut up?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, sorry, what did you just say?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Well, I think we're going to do it different next year,
but we already spoke about that.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Let's just repeat it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I can't wait to do it really differently in the
regional towns next year. No, we don't want to put
anything out there in case we don't know what's going
to happen, but we would like to try something different
next year. We're unsure what that will be yet, but
I did want to just say a huge thank you
to some of the people we worked with along the
way that actually helped make the two possible and amazing.
(04:45):
And one of those was the Ivanni Oaks team. So
they're the hotels that we stayed at mainly around the country,
and they were just beautiful. They had all the rooms
always ready for us, even if it was a bit
of an early check in, and they just really looked
after us. They had beautiful pools everywhere, the staff amazing,
and it just made it a really enjoyable tour.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, and we were also doing like a whole heap
of our podcast recording from there as well, So having
a space that felt like a home away from home
was perfect totally.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And then so we tried to have different couches lounges
on the stage at all the different shows, and you
might have seen some of them. We had these big
pink lips. I had loads of people writing to me
actually wanting those for their offices and things like that.
Now I do think you can buy them. You can't
buy them through the company we use, but we hired
all of our lounges through Simply Seated, which is like
a fire function. Right. They do lots of different events
(05:33):
I think they do, like weddings, But anything that you
need you can hire through Simply Seated. And they've got
different warehouses around the country. But I even asked them.
I was like, hey, if I wanted to buy this
for our own office, can you do it? And she said, look,
you can't buy through them, but you can for all
those people inquiring. You can buy that exact thing somewhere
on the interwebs. But if you do want to just
(05:54):
hire it, Simply Seated were absolutely incredible to us.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I love the disclaim it there. If you want to
buy it, you could buy it from somewhere else. It's
not them. But if you sent her off, visit if
you want it for the weekend, simply see it as
a place to go. Okay, Well, do you know I
want to tell you you would think that my low
would end with COVID. You know how you say like
you had the post show come downs. I also had
the post show come downs, but for very very different reasons,
and I can't be sure exactly which reason is the
(06:19):
main reason. But this also contributed to it. So we
got back to Sydney Airport from Brisbane. It's a short flight, guys,
one and a half hour flight. We land, we go
to the baggage carousel and Matt's bag comes off, Marley's
bag comes off, the spare bag that we packed for
the kids, shit comes off. And they were all the
first bags off the carousel anyway. So then I was like, Okay,
(06:41):
my bag's coming, it's coming, it's coming. Okay, it didn't, guys,
it never came. I still don't have my bag. Laura
is still waiting to the carousel.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It's been four days.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It's been five days now. My bag has not come.
We went to go and see them at the counter
where they help you, and they're like, oh yeah, I'm
so sorry. It's definitely still in Brisbane. It'll be on
the next flight and we'll get it delivered to your house.
So anyway, get home. It's like nine o'clock at night.
The fucking bag has not arrived. So I'm on the phone.
They're like, not a problem, tomorrow, it'll get delivered anyway.
(07:11):
Tomorrow comes. The bag does not come. Day three, I'm
calling again. Day three, I find out that they don't
even know where the fucking bag is. The bag is gone.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh my god, the bag's in Frankfort.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
The bag has disappeared. And the new update is, look,
we can't actually locate the bag, so once we locate
the bag, we'll let you know that we've located the bag.
So then I get a call the next day and
they're like, hey, just letting you know. We think we've
located the bag. And he's like, but we need to
know what's in your bag, and I was like okay.
So I started going through all the things were in there.
(07:43):
I was like, the kids. I've got Halloween costumes in there.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
The kids are in there. I've got two toddlers in there.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Can I please get them delivered back as a priority.
I was like, the kids' costumes are in there. I
was like, there's recording equipment in there, because some of
our recording equipment's in there. There's clothes. I was rattling
off all this stuff, and then the guy on the
phone goes, is there any female personal items in the bag?
And I was like female personal items? I was like,
I didn't pack that, and you gotta bear with me
(08:12):
because I very very much have COVID. I was very
fucking tired. And I was like, I didn't pack what
my dildo.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I was like, I.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Don't think so, and he was like, yeah, female personal
items and I was like, I was like, maybe it's purple.
And then I started describing to him what my vibrator
looked like. The poor guy on the phone, he sounded
so confused, and then I was confused, and then he
was confused. He was asking me if I had a
hair dryer or any makeup in the bag. What then,
(08:41):
just say, do you have a hair dryer or makeup?
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Now? Do you have a personal item? You're like, shit,
did Matt slip that in? Did Matt want to get
freaky this weekend?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
It turns out that my vibrator is still safely in
my top drawer in the bathroom, and.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It was not in the suitcase.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
But I described it exactly to him, so if he
needed to look for it, it's not in the bag.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Really like, it has four speeds, five vibrations, purple, It
has a little sucky bit at the front pulse and
suck action that is so funny, you know what, I
don't get. So they lied to you twice because they're like, oh, yes, man,
we've got it, it'll be on the next flight back.
You didn't have it. Then two days later they're like, yeah, yes,
we've found it. We have found it. Was coming back.
(09:19):
You still don't have it. Do you actually think they
have it?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
If it ever shows up again, I'll be so thrilled.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
It's also just such unfortunate timing because so we all
have recording equipment, right, but it's always a backup. We
don't always need it because we're always together, And this
is the only time we needed it is today because
you guys all have COVID, I can't have you come
near me because I'm egg freezing again. We all needed
the equipment. Is the one time the equipment's literally in Germany,
(09:45):
like where is it?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I live in hope that today is the day that
it will arrive on my doorstep. Well, as a.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Little update, the reason I was really really adamant that
these guys no one in my life comes anywhere near
me right now is today is day one again of
of the egg freezing cycle. I am doing another cycle
now of egg freezing, and I probably won't go into
it as much as I have in the past because
I feel like I've done it this is my third time.
You guys, you know I have updated you a lot
(10:13):
in the past, but I'll keep you posted along the
way with how it's going. But it is day one
today and the last one I did. The reason I'm
doing it again because I get a lot of questions
about why do you keep doing it and why are
you doing it again so soon? And that's because I
was really unsuccessful in the last time and I didn't
get any in the end. They didn't make it. The
ones I thought I had weren't healthy enough. I will
(10:34):
talk about that properly once this cycle's done, maybe next month,
once it's all over, I'll get into that a little
bit more, because there's a few more aspects I want
to get into it and I want to talk about
in relation to that, but now it's not the time.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I know that for you, it feels like you speak
about the egg freezing process a lot. But also I
know that last time was so incredibly disappointing for you,
and when you say that, people ask you why are
you're doing it again. I don't think it's so much
why you're doing it again, But what will make this
time different in terms of, like, how's the approach going
to be different. What are they going to change in
order to give you more chance of getting more eggs?
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, this is actually interesting. I actually ran into a
girl in the park us. I was at a dog
park with Delilah and there was a girl, Laura. Hi,
Laura from Melbourne. She was just literally here visiting her
sister's new baby. She came to the Melbourne show. She like,
she came up to me. She was like, oh my god,
I got to Melburn show. It was amazing. And we
started talking about egg freezing and she said something interesting.
She's like, oh, you're doing it again kind of thing.
(11:27):
And I was like, yeah, you know, because I wasn't
successful last time. And she said, oh, I've often she's
thirty four, and she said, I've often thought about if
I should do it because she's single, But then I
always just think, you know, let's risk it for the biscuit.
Let's see what the universe gives me. And I said, look,
I'm all for that. I said, been all honesty. If
there is any single and this is what I want
to say to everyone listening. I was like, if there's
(11:47):
any little tiny part of you that thinks you might
want a child one day in the future, whether that's
alone or maybe you're not going to meet your partner
till forty whatever that is, if there's any part of
you that wants a baby in the future, I was like,
go to your doctor and at least start the testing.
Look at freezing, because the difference in me in just
two years. I did the first lot two years ago
(12:09):
and I got a few eggs on ice. I think
I ended up with fifteen. Two years later, I did
it and I couldn't even get one. And I think
that that's a really important lesson. I don't want to
say it's a lesson, but it was a real wake
up call. And I don't want to tell women that
to scare them, but I want to tell them so
that they're armed with the knowledge that they can do
something about it before it is too late, if they're
in the same position as I am. Because I do
(12:31):
have friends that went a little bit later in their thirties,
even early thirties. They're like, oh, maybe I'll go and
do it, and they couldn't get anything. And that is
just that's just being realistic, and it's not to scare people,
but it's just taking it into your own control. So
that is the reason I'm doing it so close together,
is because your eggs every single month that you age
(12:51):
and every period, you lose eggs and they don't come back.
Now you do have hundreds of thousands of eggs, but
at some point they deplete. That's what we go into menopause.
That's the whole thing. It's not even a guarantee. It's
still only a backup. It's still only maybe the eggs
might not work, but it's better to have that option
down the track. So that is why I'm doing it again.
And what they're doing differently this time for me is
(13:11):
they're giving me a lot more hormones, so they're giving
me a higher dose, which could potentially put me over
into hyper ovarian syndrome, which is not good. And that's
what I had a little bit of the first time
when I did get a few eggs. So this process.
I don't know if you followed me, for those that
followed me a month or two ago, when I did it,
I was actually so fine, and I remember telling you guys,
(13:34):
I was like until the last day or two, it's cruisy.
I feel like I was like not really noticing much
the last two days are really uncomfortable, but this time
is going to be different because they are going to
pump me full of a lot more to try and
get as many out as they can. So I don't
imagine this next fortnight is going to be overly enjoyable,
but it's what I think is a small price to pay.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Okay, Well, speaking of hormones, So I came across something
on the internet in the last couple of time. Now,
I sent this in the group chat to both produce
Kisha and to Britt And there's this woman online who
I follow. Her name is Lisa Bill You Bill you.
I don't know if that's exactly how you say her name,
but she's the founder of a company called Women of Impact.
She is the co founder of another company called Impact Theory.
(14:17):
I've been trying to get her on the podcast for
so long, and I would say that she oh, like,
she's probably not going to come on the podcast after
I say this. She almost brought us on Toxic Positivity
because she's so like, rah rah rah, you can achieve anything.
And the thing that's amazing about her is that she
actually has achieved the things that she sets out and says,
(14:37):
you know, you can achieve anything. Her and her husband
they've been together for like something crazy like eighteen years.
They don't have kids, but they have these incredibly successful businesses,
and she has really insightful conversations with people, all different
types of people, similar conversations to the ones that we have.
There was something that I came across on her Instagram.
It's now had close to thirty million views, insane, and
(14:59):
it was all around and how women fall in love
when they have sex and men don't necessarily feel the same.
I'm going to play it with for you guys.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Fun fact for you. Women release oxytocin whenever they have sex.
Men release testosterone whenever they have sex, but only oxytocin
if they're in love with the woman.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
It's an evolutionary mechanism, but it's the explanation for the
fact that if a woman sleeps with a man enough times,
she's going to start falling in love, whereas for a man,
it's not necessarily going to happen. And you know, that
is the basis of so many relationship issues. You know
you've heard it before. Let's keep it casual, but we
are having sex. The woman kind of thinks at some
(15:39):
point he's going to change his mind and we're going
to be in a relationship. But if that's what the
guy's told you from the start, physiologically, chemically, it's not
going to change for him.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Okay, Now this caused quite a bit of debate in
our little group chat. The woman who is speaking there,
her name is doctor Taras Sward. She is a neuroscientist,
but she's also she's kind of moved into more spiritual
healing and manifestation, all different things. So the reason why
it caused a bit of conversation was because we are
unsure of the validity of it. But fuck, it rains
(16:11):
true for my twenties.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, And the reason was we say we're unsure of
the validity and this neuroscientist. I love that she's a neuroscientist.
Kisha and I will talk about this. Obviously incredible, she's
a doctor, she has a PhD. She's amazing. She's dedicated
her whole life to study. But then she has transitioned
into manifestation, achievement boards wellness as a holistic sense, which
(16:33):
I also love, and a lot of her stuff is
a culmination of both. Like she takes a little bit
of the neuroscience and a little bit of this. So
I don't know if what she has said about this
whole sex thing is one hundred percent accurate. I think
a bit of bes leaked into a bit of a Can.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We stop, let's stop, let's stop taking Instagram as though
it's gospel, and just appreciate that I fell in love
with a guy who had a mattress on the floor
and used to sleep on his clothes. Because I had
sex with him enough.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Time, law resented to me. Law resented it to me,
and she goes, oh my god, after all this time,
my whole life is explained by this neuroscientist. Everyone I fuck,
I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Marry literally literally, I am not joking. I could not
even be remotely attracted to a guy or like, you know,
kind of think he's good looking, but like, no part
of his personality or his life or anything to do
with him did I think was a good match for me.
And then if I had sex with him enough times,
I'd be like, maybe I.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Could don't take this the wrong way, because you know,
I love you and you're my really good friend. But
I am not convinced that that is just because of
what this neuroscientist has said, I don't think it's just
these endorphins and whatever fucking other hormone comes out.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh, you're calling me crazy. I think it's also because
you had calling me codependent.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
You had attachment issues, which we've established, which they we've
talked about, You've written a book. You definitely do have
attachment issues, and you did. I'm not having a laugh,
but you did want to find that safety in a
partner and somebody, and I sometimes wonder if if it
was more that side, like you were like, oh, I
could make this person my partner and and then I
would have someone for a while.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Literally. I feel sorry for any of my exes who
ever listened to this podcast. I'm sure they don't. I'm
sure they don't give a flying fuck, but if they did. Okay,
you were all great guys, you have great personalities.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I loved you all.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
But if they did listen to it, they would think
that I hated them. I definitely didn't. I just knew
that they were terrible matches for me at the time.
But yet I really tried to shove a triangle in
a square.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, and you It's funny because when you sent me
this you were like, you know, this is this is lol, Lo,
this is what I did? Is this what you did
as well? All the science is true. And when I
look back at mine, I actually was so opposite to that,
Like I would even last year before I met Ben,
you know, there was that one person that I was
hooking up with, who on paper, but on paper like
great guy, and on paper he was incredible. Like on paper,
(18:48):
he didn't a lot of Bob when you're right at
down Pate, he on hot on.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A guy who goes out, gets blind drunk and then
rocks up at your house in the middle of the
night yelling Britney, I love you and then buys your
flowers the next day to apologize and then does the
exact same thing the following weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Is not a great guy, hang on, all I mean
on paper, he's got a great job, he's attractive, he
was funny, he was driven of age, of similar age,
which I think is important because I always day down,
oh he was. He was younger, but not that much,
not that much younger. No, But my point was like
that didn't happen for me, and it was the opposite.
(19:30):
But I have definitely been that person in the past,
and one particular person comes to mind. One person that
I was in a situationship with for years, like years
of my life, and I entered that as a situation ship.
I entered that being like, don't fall in love with me,
and he was like, no, I won't. And I was like,
oh no, but really don't. He's like, no, I'm really
not gonna. And then and then I fell in love
(19:52):
with him, and I kept being like, I'm gonna be
that stupid woman that's like, I know you'll change for me,
Like I know if I just keep doing everything and
being the perfect per of you, that one day you'll
wake up and be like, oh my gosh, she's the
perfect person and I'm in love. And it never happened.
And I tried to do that. I tried to change
his mind for three years, and it never happened.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I think every I mean, I shouldn't say everyone can
relate to this, because obviously we've all walked different lives,
but I think there's so many women who can relate
to having sex. You had that nice little cudlor afterwards
and you're like, oh, you know, you weren't really into
it beforehand, but then you're cuddling and you're in their
little man's space and you're like this And I'm speaking
more obviously for heterosexual relationships because that's the only one
(20:31):
that I can speak to from my own personal experience.
And you're there and then you're like, oh, maybe this
is maybe I am falling in love. Maybe maybe I
am falling in love with this person. And then you
have a bit of space and you realize it was
all a fucking lie. Your hormones life.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
What's the quickest point, Like, when you look back at
all the people you've fucked orked up with, what was
the quickest from like when you met them and slept
with them for the first time to when you actually
started to think, like you pictured your marriage you're wearing
and your life, Like, what was the quickest?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
It wasn't because I had those big, like instant connection
relationships where like I wanted to marry them before it
even slept with them, So those ones don't count. I'm
talking about the one the.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Whole mane wasn't even released yet, the sex Tall Man
wasn't even out. I was just crazy.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I just matched with him on Tinder. I'm talking about
the ones where they catch you by surprise, like you're
actually not that into the person you've gone on a date.
It's very like unassuming you're not really into the date,
but you do want to have sex with them because
they're attractive and there's like something about them, but you
also know that they're a terrible match for you. And
then all of a sudden you start thinking, maybe you
can make it work, and I have done that many times,
(21:36):
and guess what, you never can make it work. It
is the sex and it is lying to you. So
just stay aware and stay conscious of what you're doing.
Right and if anyone's listening to this right now and
you're in the midst of maybe you've had sex with
them four times? Four times a danger zone?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
If you hit four times, you're get in some feelings.
I get three is danger like a hat trip.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
How did the feelings change with Matt because that was
a different situation. You had three months in the house
of no sex and having to date him, but you
already knew you loved him at the end. Did the
love feelings change when you had sex?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Do you know what I spoke about this? What show was?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
It? Was it?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Adelaide?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
No Perth?
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Maybe Perth we had an ask guncut question which was
around toxic relationships and like going back and forth to
a toxic relationship. And I can't remember the exact context
of the question, but it was kind of around the
person who was in the audience was going back to
their ex even though they were, you know, had been
dating new people and had like the opportunity of being
in healthy relationships, they kept going back to their toxic exes.
(22:37):
And one of the things I have come to realize
about my relationship with Matt over the years, and this
is probably through this podcast, It's through reading a lot
of self help books. It's around like understanding my attachment
styles doing all the fucking work. Is now I am
in a very healthy and secure relationship with the men
who I adore and I love. But Matt is not
(22:58):
drama filled. There is nothing about him that is drama field.
He is consistent, he is kind, he is caring, He's
all the things that I would have thought were boring
back in the day because it didn't flame my need
for this like toxic like crazy intense love, right, But
boring is healthy, Yeah, totally. And I would have met
him in real life and been and I'm sure I
have said this before. I would have met him in
(23:19):
real life and been like, this is a fucking boring relationship,
you know, if it had not been on the Bachelor.
But the environment of the Bachelor satisfied all of the
things that I needed in terms of toxicity.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It gave me the feelings of volatility, It gave me
the feelings of uncertainty. It made me really want to
latch onto the relationship. All the things that I have
felt in the past when I dated, my toxic relationships,
my toxic x's, all the things that I unconsciously craved.
I got them. I just didn't get them from Matt.
I got them from the environment of the Bachelor, which
is so fucked up when you actually say those things
(23:53):
out loud and you unpack that of yourself. But I guess,
you know, it's been seven years now, I have kids,
we've grown as a couple, and I can look back
on that period and go as much as I was
in love with Matt, I also had that absolute toxic
need met by the environment of the Bachelor.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
So what Laura's saying is she wants to back up
this neuroscientist that you fucking fall in love if you're
a woman, but not if you're a man.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, I reckon. Well, I mean, look, who knows. I
think that there's validity to it. I would love to
know your opinions if you feel like you have been
in a similar situation, or maybe I'm out here on
an island or by myself with my COVID in isolation.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Okay, we had some absolute bangers written in for Accidentally Unfiltered,
and what I've started doing is reading them out to
Bend just for fun and like just seeing what his
responses are. And that's the one I pick. So that's
how I picked, Just so you know, Laura, that's how
I picked the accdently I'm filtered today. Well, I always
pick a few of what I think are funny and
then I read him to Bend and I just gauge
his response. Anyway, this is the one he was attracted to.
(24:52):
Last night, my husband asked me to investigate an ingrown
hair in his.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Bumhole, as you do not around the bumhole. No, no, no.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
To a hemorrhoid. And he's like, I swear to it's
a hemorrh.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I feel like the language in this is a bit off.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
No ingrown hair in his bum hoole. That's what she wrote. Okay,
to help the investigation, he wanted me to take a
photo so I could show him said ingrown hair pimple
thing to see if he needed to see GP. As
in the past, he's had to have one surgically removed.
Moving forward, I'm in bed catching up on my messages
for the day and I saw that my mother in
(25:28):
law wanted to see photos from the day with our kids.
So what did I do? Yep, you guess it. I said,
my mother in Laura closed up photo of her son's
hairy butthole instead.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Of a cute bite all that kids.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She didn't reply, but she's called me six times this
morning and I'm avoiding her help.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Now. We wanted to take much more of a serious
tone with this part of the episode, and that is
because you guys know that we never shy away from
hard conversations on here, and something that we have spoken
about so many many times over the past four and
a half years of doing this podcast. It's something that
both Britta and I are incredibly passionate about is speaking
up about domestic violence and recently, as you would know
(26:11):
if you're within Australia. If you're one of our overseas listeners,
you may not have heard the story Lily James. She
is a school teacher and she was murdered recently by
a coworker and someone who she may have had some
sort of romantic connection to. His name is Paul Disson.
And the reason why we want to speak about this
is because Lily is one of five women who's been
killed in the last nine days, which really goes to
(26:32):
show what an issue domestic violence is within this country,
and it's such a stain on this country. It's something
that has not talked about enough. Now, something that came
up in the news in the last week and something
we really wanted to talk about is the headmaster of
the Shaw School, doctor John Collier. He's the head master
of the exclusive private boys' school in which Paul Thisison attended,
and he wrote a newsletter that was distributed to parents
(26:54):
and to teachers. That newsletter was titled Looking in the
Face of Savagery. But within that newsletter he talked about
how Thissen, who is a murderer, was an absolute delight
of a student, and he went on to say things
like he appeared to be just like the best of us.
An hour before he committed the atrocity, he was speaking
in a relaxed, friendly mode with stuff at that school.
(27:14):
He was not a monster. Rather, in the last five
hours of his life, he committed a monstrous act which
was a complete contradiction to what everyone who knew him
observed in the rest of his short life. What actually
happened to Paul is that he went on to suicide
after he killed Lily. This has caused so much outrage.
Chanelle Kontos, who we've had on the podcast before, she
(27:37):
is the creator of Teach Us Consent, has spoken out
it's this idea that he had a lapse in judgment,
that all of a sudden, he had this moment in
time where he acted out and behaved in a way
that was not in line with who he is as
a person. And I think the really big thing to
drive home here is that good men who were brought
up with great morals, who do not abuse women in
(27:59):
their life, do not just switch and murder people. It
doesn't happen. And framing him as though he was this
great man with great morals just like the best of us,
just devalues What has happened to Lily.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
The thing that got me is the way the head
principle had said it was like a moment of mental disintegration,
like it really was his spur of the moment thing. Now,
I was reading something that really reiterated this. Rvette Vignando.
She's the chief executive of anti domestic violence organization at
Mary's House in Australia. She went on to comment and
she said, I commend doctor Collier for trying to reach
(28:34):
young men and make sense of the situation through his faith,
but the language he used was not helpful. One thing
that stood out to me was quite jarring to read
someone describe after such a horrific murder, the alleged perpetrator
is described as an absolute delight. This language is not helpful.
I do resonate with what she's saying here, because I
(28:55):
do think that doctor Collier didn't think he was doing
anything wrong. He was trying and he has come out
afterwards and he said, look, when about this the wrong way?
I'm sorry. I was just trying to express my shock
at the situation. But this terminology isn't it and it
doesn't fucking work.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think it then comes back to this idea, right
that just because you are friends with someone or you
think you know someone, that they couldn't possibly be the
type of person who would do something like this. And
the reality is is that the types of people who
would do something like this aren't walking around the streets
looking like outward monsters. You're not going to spot them
crossing the road and be like, oh, that's someone who
(29:30):
would do such a horrific act like this. It happens
in homes everywhere. It happens in homes, and I'm not
talking about murder, but I am talking about domestic violence.
It happens with people that you would never expect. It
is not just the othering of people who are poor,
or who are mentally unwell, or who there's some sort
of depravity. It happens everywhere. And I think it's the
(29:50):
language of oh, he was just like the best of
us that minimizes how common it is in households of
people who look outwardly normal, who look outwardly like they
have their stuff together, who look normally like they can
hold down a great job and they're handsome and attractive
and successful. Because that's the issue, right, is this language
once again sort of says that it happened in a
(30:12):
moment of weakness. And the big point that Chanel Kontos made,
and this is what she had to say on it,
It is symbolic of a much larger problem. The whole
point is that normal people do these crimes. It's problematic
to try and other it people who perpetuate violence, because
by doing that, we are allowing people who exhibit normal
behaviors in other forms of life to go unnoticed without accountability.
(30:33):
And I think that that absolutely speaks volumes because in
this moment, there is not a need to try and
justify what a good person he was up until the
point that he died. He's not deserving of that with
what he's done, and I just think that all that
does is it minimizes once again what Lily has gone through.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Avettvignando the executive of the Anti Domestic Violence here in Sydney.
She said, they are out there and living among us
and living in some of the most privileged parts of Sydney,
all across the northern suburbs where the majority of our
clients who are victims live. The perpetrators are surgeons, academics, plumbers,
leaders in business, Their mates and friends rarely suspect what
(31:11):
he's going on behind the scenes. So that is someone
that heads up an anti domestic violence organization here openly
coming out and saying, these are everyday people that you
probably know in your day to day life. They make
up some of our biggest victims. Partners of these people,
people in these relationships. It really does just drive home
(31:32):
that these aren't your typical monsters quote unquote walking around.
Of course. I mean, I'm going to call them a
monster for sure, but they are the everyday people. And
that's why it's a problem, and that's why it does
take away from it when you come out and say, oh,
he was such an amazing person. He was a prefect,
he was so great in all these other aspects, but
he just had a moment of mental disintegrations.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
This statistic one in five women since the age of
fifteen have been sexually assaulted. Now, I know that we're
talking about sexual assault here and which is different to
domestic violence, but the numbers for that are very high
as well. I can't remember who said it to me,
but it really got me thinking those numbers are so high,
like that's twenty percent. One in five women have been
sexually assaulted by the age of fifteen. Everybody knows someone
(32:16):
who has experienced sexual assault, whether you have experienced it yourself,
or whether it is your friend, or it is your sister,
or it is someone in your life. Everybody knows someone
who has experienced physical violence at the hands of a man,
whether it is yourself, whether it is your sister, whether
it is someone who you know. But nobody knows the
person who does it. Nobody. I can't name one man
(32:38):
in my life who I would say, yes, you, you
are a perpetrator. But the reality is statistics would show
that there are people in my life who are perpetrators.
And that's the big thing to think about is that
we never think it is the people within our circles.
We never think it is the people who we are
friends with or who we think we know. But people
(32:58):
can show who they are at face value and be
very different behind closed doors and within relationships. That is
such an alarming thing when you actually start to break
down why there's this mismatch within society. But also it
comes down to media, and it comes down to the
way in which we talk about it as well, because
even the language within news articles is so minimizing of
(33:19):
what happens to victims. I know there was a lot
of uproar last week after the Daily Telegraph article came out.
And if you aren't familiar with the article, I'll read
you the headline, after school sports job for Lily James
and Paul Fisen led to horror Sidney CBD murder. If
you were to only read that headline, you would assume
that her working in an after school sports is what
(33:41):
led to her dying, not the fact that she was
actually murdered by someone who she worked with.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, what led to her murder was she was bludgeoned
to death by somebody that she worked with. It had
nothing to do with the after school like. It's just
the fucking language that drives me insaying she's twenty one
years old at her place of work by someone she
may or may not have been in a very brief
romantic relationship with. Let's call a spade a spade. He
murdered her. That's it. That's the headline. Like, it has
(34:07):
nothing to do with how unfortunate she her timing was
that she had this after school job.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
There's this great Instagram account which I mean, can be
my vibe for this week a recommendation. Her name is
Jane Gilmore Underscore aus So. Jane Gilmour Underscore oz It.
Once upon a time used to be called fixed It. Jane.
She is a journalist and what she does is she
goes on and she rewrites the headlines so that they
actually describe what happened rather than this sort of like
(34:32):
fluffy pseudo journalism that all it does is is protect
the perpetrators rather than supporting the victims. So Jane's been
doing this since twenty fourteen, and the whole point and
the reason why she got into it was to try
and rewrite the victim blaming that happens, because you'll see
it in media, and it happens all the time. It'll
be words like scorned lover, or it'll be like they
(34:53):
were a good father, and then all of a sudden,
they've done these awful things, and they'll talk about the
fact that the couple were in a sexual relationship, as
if to say that because you're in a sexual relationship
with someone that they should have some ownership over the
things that they do to you. What Jane wrote in
regards to this headline from the Sydney Telegraph She's crossed
it out and she's written Paul Thissen's decision to kill
(35:14):
Ee James was the only thing that led to her murder.
He chose to take her life and all the possibilities
of her future from her and the people who loved her.
Erasing his responsibility for her murder is a repellent and
cowardly act of support for a murderer. And I just
think it's so important for us to continue to have
these types of conversations and to call out not just
(35:36):
victim blaming, but almost trying to soften the monstrous act
of someone like Paul Thisson and what he has done.
One of the big things, and one of the reasons
why it's so important is because it's so multi layered.
We're never going to be able to combat domestic violence
until we start to attack it on all levels. And
(35:57):
that does include the way in which the media speak
about it, as you said, brit like it came from
a good place, but that is irrelevant. And like this
doctor John Collier sending out this newsletter to try and
explain to people that you know, this was a good
man who had a lapse in judgment. Murdering someone is
not a lapse in judgment. It is irrelevant if he
appeared to be a good man up and until that point.
(36:20):
And I think that we almost need to unpack the why,
the why do we need to defend the why do
we need to speak about this person was a good father,
this person was a good man, this person was a
good whatever it was great at their job or successful
to try and make sense of domestic violence, because I
think we really need to get to a place of
(36:41):
society where we accept and we validate exactly what you
said earlier, brit that it is successful people. It is
normal quote unquote people who do these things, and that
is what makes them monsters.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. I think where John Collier went wrong was it's
a bit of a read the room and know your
audience and know your platform situation. And I think what
he said is a conversation that he would have had
inside in his home with his partner. That's what it
would have been. Expressing the shock that you knew someone
that could have done this is something that you would
say to someone very close to you, not on a
public platform, not to every single family, every single student
(37:16):
at that school, because it sends the wrong message.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, I know, but it goes deeper than that, right,
because that's you nailed it. That's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
It is the.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Conversation that you would have with your friends or your
family or people around you, like, oh my god, you know,
there's such an amazing person. How did this happen? But
the fact that we think that they were an amazing person.
And that's the thing is these layers existed in him already.
He was already somebody who was misogynistic. He already had
to have had these sorts of ideologies in some way
(37:46):
within him to behave like that, because good people don't
bludgeon people to death with a hammer. It doesn't happen.
So it's like the fact that you can't see that
and you still need to write a newsletter to say,
oh my god, it came to such a surprise. It's
not a mental break in this person. It is part
of the dna of who they are and how they
(38:06):
have been raised and what they have been exposed to
as a person. And I think that that is how
deep misogyny runs through our society, is that we don't
accept that some people just are that. And that's what
makes me feel so fucking mad.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
It actually sort of ties back to what we were
speaking about last week, Laura, and that's how the government
is bringing in this education for school kids starting at
age five surrounding toxic masculinity and respect for women, which
we had the conversation last week. Is it enough, you know,
is it teaching a five year old to treat women
better enough? And should that all fall on the teachers?
(38:41):
And the place that we got to is, well, you
know what, any education at all, and any small step
in the right direction is better than nothing. And whilst
shouldn't necessarily completely fall on the teachers, like we did say,
we don't really have another option. And what I want
to say by that is we can't control what children
are learning in their households in pride, but we can
try and educate the adults in their life for sure.
(39:03):
But what we can try to control is the curriculum
and what they're being taught at school. But it does
make you think now with this head teacher, doctor John Collier,
that's released his newsletter, is that maybe it is really
important for the education to be hitting the teachers and
the principles and those people in power as well, because
they need to learn how to reuse this language in
order to teach the school kids. So it's almost like
(39:24):
it has to start from the inside out. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Absolutely, I mean it's generational, right, and it's been consistently
passed down, and that is why it is such a
slow and steady slog to try and make any change.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Well, you know, we never finished an episode without our
suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light
of the week. Might suck happened very late last night.
You guys know that I'm a sucker for staying up
really late in binge watching TV shows because I can't
turn them off anyway. I was really really tired and
we had to get up early to do the records today.
And right before I got into bed atbably twelve thirty
(40:01):
at night, I had a full drink bottle of water
on my bedside table. I spilled the entire It was
like a soda stream bottle, so it has a really
big opening lid. I spilled the soda stream bottle onto
my bed, but didn't know because I knocked it over
with the pillow, so it's not like it was a
big clunk and I didn't see it drop, and the
whole bottle the whole leater bottle went all over my bed,
(40:22):
all through my sheets, all into my mattress right at
twelve thirty night before I wanted to get into bed.
So you know what I did? You just slept on
other stock, just slept on the other side. Yeah. I
was like, that's a I just like laid a towel
on it, and I was like, that's a tomorrow problem.
I'm going to sleep on the other side.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
No, do you know what? Like, I'm like, no, I
will have that stuck. I will take it. You can
pour a fucking bottle of water in my bed. You
can have COVID.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, I'm sorry, Sorry Laura that you're sicker than me
this week.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Sorry that my suck? Is that? Take my fucking suck?
Take it?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
What I is?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Your sweet?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
My sweet? Is that My parents, my mum and dad
and we've just locked it in, have decided to come
to Scotland and for Christmas with me. Sherry's over there,
so they're going to be meeting Ben's family. It's going
to be this huge event. So they've actually just like
locked and loaded that in, which is really exciting. I
don't think they've been over to the UK well, they've
never been to Scotland.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Actually, how many weeks until you go? We go?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't know. Know the date is maybe five or six weeks.
When's Christma? I don't know. As soon as we go
on radio on holiday break, I am out the door
over to see my lover. But my parents are coming,
so it's like all our families are going to be
meeting and the sisters and it's going to be really cool.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Okay, Well, my suck for the week should be pretty
pretty obvious. I think I would just like my bag back,
Please Virgin give me my bag. My suck for the
week is my bag going missing? There are lots of
things in there that I really want. COVID has not
been great. I wanted to go down and see my grandparents,
like my Nana and my mum Dan and Woollongong, but
(41:50):
obviously I couldn't do that. So my suck is just
an amgamation of lost baggage and COVID and two children
who I think. The only thing that they said the
entire weekend was I'm bored. I'm bored, which I get it.
It was boring, and also I was so sick that
the last thing I wanted to do was play tea party.
(42:12):
So I also felt like a completely shit mum. So
my wee can sucked. But my sweet for the week
is so so many of you when we did our
meat and greets gave Britt and I like letters or
so many bits and pieces, like we got bottles of wine,
and we got hits, and we've got friendship bracelets, and
we got, oh my god, the invitations to weddings, Like.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
We got really nice, very localized like lip bums and
moisturizeres and chocolates.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, and this one girl that gave us go just
like little animal earrings. Like honestly, you guys were so sweet.
So many of you brought us little things to show
us the ways in which you've appreciated the podcast. And
I sat down yesterday and I started reading through all
the letters that we got given. And I've got to
pass them on to brit because somehow they ended up
in my handbag. So I took them all home and
Britt doesn't have them.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
I also have some for you as well.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I was in tears yes today reading these. You guys
are amazing, We are so grateful, and I know that
I've said it so much over the last little bit.
But receiving that and like being able to touch base
with you all and like, you know, see you guys
in the flesh, hear your stories. It's honestly been so
incredible and so that kind of continued my little life
(43:20):
uncut live high that I've had. And maybe that's what
got me through my low in terms of, like, you know,
feeling as though the whole thing was over, was being
able to read through all of your incredible letters. So
for those of you who took time to write one,
thank you so much. It means everything to us. And yeah,
they're like things I'll keep for the rest of my life.
Like it's so beautiful, cute, cute, that is it. Guys. Anyway,
(43:41):
we will be back tomorrow. We have a fucking amazing
interview for you tomorrow. We're interviewing Sam Fisher. Now I
know you guys have heard of him because we've spoken
about him so much over the last couple of weeks.
He's the City's Going to Break My Heart singer. But
his story and his vulnerability in this episode, I loved
it so much. So some of the things that say
spoke about and I loved his candidness about this. He
(44:03):
spoke about going bald and going and getting hair transplants
and what it meant for him for his insecurities. How
as women we can sometimes downplay and diminish the insecurities
that men have around baldness. I thought that that was
so interesting.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, he's also very He's just a very funny person.
So even when he talks about something serious like his
borderline comedian, even when he does his songs and openness,
it's like a stand up comedy piece. But what I
found really interesting with Sam is he speaks a lot
about a toxic relationship with a narcissistic parent, because he
has had a very tumultuous relationship with his father, and
he speaks so openly about that. He's so vulnerable about that,
(44:42):
but he also puts a little bit of light into
it as well and takes something positive from the situation.
But I haven't actually had a conversation with someone in
a long time that was so open about that sort
of relationship with a narcissistic parent, and I found it
really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, I totally agree, and I think most of the
time when we talk about but people who have cut
contact with their parents. Usually people are really guarded because
there's still this responsibility almost feeling of like I don't
want to upset my parents, even though I don't talk
to them anymore, Like, people are still very guarded with
sharing that conversation because it's so personal and Sam is
(45:17):
so giving in this chat. So if you have a
complicated relationship with your parent or parents, I think that
this is an episode you will get so much out
of and I can't wait for you guys to listen
to it. So that is coming tomorrow and that is
it from us, guys.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Don't forget so your mum, to you, Dad, Telly Dog,
tell your friends and share a love because we love
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