July 10, 2025 • 40 mins
Today we’re joined by Rawson Kirkhope — a Navy veteran, childhood domestic violence survivor, and co-founder of VRTUS, a community-first gym.
When Rawson was 12 years old, he witnessed his father shoot his mother, trying to end her life. Despite the horrific violence and being on the run for a week, his father was only sentenced to 4 years in jail. This event left him with PTSD - something that he has had to learn to live with.
In this episode, Rawson shares what it was like to grow up never knowing whether your home was safe. We talk about what trauma does to your sense of identity, the complexity of loving someone whilst being simultaneously terrified by them, and how those early years shaped the man he would become.
If this topic is sensitive for you, please take care while listening. There is always help available and someone to talk to on 1800 RESPECT
We speak about:
- The reality of growing up around violence
- Always trying to be a ‘good’ kid to not escalate anything at home
- How kids who grow up around volatile parents can struggle with validation
- The justice system and having to testify against his own dad
- The complexities of PTSD and what it looks like in reality
- The strength of community around you
- Reshaping masculinity and how routine has really helped
You can find more from Rawson on instagram
And VRTUS
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life. I'm Cut, I'm Laura,
I'm Brittany.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And today we have a very special guest. We're joined
by Rawson Kirkhope. Rawson is a Navy VET. He's a
childhood domestic violence survivor, the co founder of Vertus, which
is where I met Rawson at our local gym in Bondai.
We met maybe eighteen months ago and became pretty fast friends,
and that was how I first came across Rawson's story.
What Rawson experienced as a child at the hands of
(00:38):
his father is truly unfathomable. When Rawson was just twelve
years old, he witnessed his father shoot his mother, trying
to end her life, his sister narrowly escaping the same fate.
This event would shape his life and leave him with PTSD,
something that he has had to learn to live with.
In this episode, Rawson shares what it was like to
grow up never knowing whether you're truly safe at home,
(01:00):
about what trauma does to your sense of identity, the
complexity of loving someone whilst simultaneously being absolutely terrified of them,
and how those early years shaped the man that he
would go on to become. We're also going to speak
about reshaping masculinity. Now, if this topic is sensitive for you,
please take care while listening and know that there is
absolutely no pressure to sit through this whole conversation in
(01:21):
one go. You can go and come back or maybe
this episode is not for you at all. Also a
reminder that there is always help available and someone to
talk to on one hundred. Respect Ross and welcome to
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thank you, Britt, Thank you guys, thank for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It feels I mean, we just toss it around and
we're like, do we do accidentally unfiltered on this? And
Britt was like, I've checked and Rosson's cool, so.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
But but genuinely because I mean a lot of the
conversation that we're covering on this is very heavy, so
sometimes it feels a bit odd to do abate and
switch between like Okay, well, what's your most embarrassing moment?
But it is a staple of our podcast and we're
going to kick it off with that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So what is your most embarrassing moment?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Sure, sure, mine's quite tame, I think in comparison to
some of the other guests you've had on especially what.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I've just heard so red bullshitting in the street.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, mine's definitely not going down that path. But I'm
very much a clumsy person, which a lot of people
will find hard to believe being a gym owner and
being a very active person, but being in the gym,
I'm always tripping over things. I'm always hitting my head
on things in front of members. And one thing that
came to mind, I was demonstrating some cleans in the gym,
some barbell cleans, and this happened just about a month ago,
and that barbell hit me in the chin.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
My mouth started feeling with blood.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I chipped a little bit of my tongue and had
to continue on speaking with blood kind of coming down
my mouth.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Wasn't my finest moment. But this actually, if you come
into the gym, you'll find it happens. Happens a lot.
So I'm a very clumsy person.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
So you just try and play it cool, like nothing
to see here, blood dripping down your face, yea, and
play it off.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, it doesn't hurt, and then quickly get the class
started and run to the bathroom and.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Get No one stopped down to try and help you.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
No, I think people are quite intimidated when the class
is happening. But yeah, I finally got into it and
everything worked out well.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Ross and your story. We talked about domestic violence on
the podcast Affairbit. I feel as though for anyone who
hasn't or isn't aware of what it was that you
went through as a kid, like your version of it
is very extreme, probably one of the most extreme versions
that you can experience.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Can you talk to us a.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Little bit about what your childhood was like in the
early years growing up, what the relationship was with your
mum and your dad and just kind of those I
guess foundational years before everything went terribly wrong.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Sure, So to set the scene, I guess I grew
up in Tasmania. I loved Tazy.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It's a beautiful part of the world and I get
back there as much as I can. But yeah, growing up,
I grew up on a farm just outside of Lanceston,
so the major little town in northern Tasmania. And we
had a sandstone quarry, so dad had a sandstone mine
and it was a beautiful place to grow up. We
had a river running through our property, and you know,
I was very outdoorsy. I threw myself in every sport
that I could. But yeah, it was a lot of
(03:53):
fear growing up. My dad was a very violent man.
He had some head injuries. He had a car accident
when I was just after I was born and developed
a lot of head injuries and including schizophrenia was a
big one. So he could switch very quickly. He was
a very proud man and if things weren't going his way,
he would turn violent very quickly. And that was violent
(04:14):
to myself, my sister, and my mum, especially my mum.
My sister and I copped it a lot, but Mum
copped the brunt of that. And it was living in
that constant state of fear I guess where I didn't
know when it would happen. I did have some beautiful
memories of growing up and beautiful memories with my dad
as well and my sister. My sister and I were
best friends and we did everything together, and my mum
was a brilliant mum and she still he is a
(04:35):
brilliant mum. But yeah, that constant state of fear was
something that you know, I struggled with and I still
do to this day.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
But yeah, growing up was tough when you said your
dad had an accident and he had head injuries, and
I'm sure you've spoken to your mum over the years.
Did that change his personality? Was he a different person
after this experience or was he always someone who had
those volatile tendencies.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yes, so this is something I've spoken to mum about
a lot. Obviously I was I was a couple of
months old, so I don't have any knowledge of him
prior to this.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
But he was a violent man growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
He was in and out of you know, bar fights
and violence, and he was violent, and not to the
extremities that he was post the head injuries, yeah, but yeah,
a violent man and growing up in that era. I
know that his father put him through some stuff as well,
and that generational trauma, which is something I'm really focused
on breaking. He was a violent man, but yeah, not
to the extent that happened later on in life.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
How did it present itself and how frequent? And because
you were only a small baby, so I'm sure you
don't remember those early years. And it sounds like your
mum was copying the brunt of that. And you have
an older sister that I.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Do Amelia yes, she's a couple of years older than me.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So when do you start to remember. I guess
that something wasn't right and then that's not normal and
people shouldn't be behaving that way, or you know, having
violence in a family home.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, it's funny because obviously we grew up in a farm,
so we were a bit distance from neighbors, friends and family.
So you know, you think think everything's normal until you
find out that it's not. So I guess, you know,
up until five six seven, when I started going to
school and seeing happy families instead of what we were
going through, I thought it was normal.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
But it was quite normal the.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Violence, so I'd say once or twice weekly, it wasn't
every single day, which I think made it a little
bit harder because you have those good days where everything's
great and then all of a sudden, just you know,
it could be a cold dinner that's not up to
Dad's liking, or something's happened at work, and then it
would be just sheer chaos, which was tough to do with.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It's also terrorizing when you can't predict it, because you
find yourself walking on eggshells for fear of being the
reason that it triggers something that's such a petrifying way
for a kid to exist.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So it was always quite sudden, like I said, but
it was fists. I saw my mum thrown through walls,
like numerous occasions, I'd say fifteen twenty times, and my
sister and myself copying a bit of that as well,
But it was mum, she drives to school with black eyes,
and you know, it was tough, tough to deal with.
You know, we tried to leave so many times. I
(07:02):
guess you don't really know how hard it is to
leave until you're in that situation yourself, and you see
it a lot well with people asking why didn't you leave?
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Yeah, my mum she.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Was petrified, but she stayed with dad for us, I guess,
or that fear of leaving and then something you know,
really catastrophic happened later when we did try to leave.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Have you spoken to because I mean, there's so much
research now that's come out around like how challenging it
is for victims of domestic balance to leave, how many
times it usually takes them also in that leaving is
more often than not the most dangerous time for victims.
Have you spoken to your mum around like, what were
the reasons why it was so hard for her to
separate or to leave at that time when she was
(07:40):
obviously going through such hell in her own home.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I haven't spoke to much about it, but I know
that it was fear, one hundred percent fear, so fear
of leaving. She's told me one story which is terrifying,
and I know the street that she talks about this happening.
So we moved into town, into East Lonceston. Right into town,
we'll forty minutes out town where our farm was when
I was around eleven twelve, when I was just about
to get into high school. So to stay more settled
(08:06):
and not have to travel so far to school, that
was our chance of trialing time away from dad. And
Dad would would stalk Mum in a way where Mom
would be taking the dog for a walk and he'd
be driving the car at twenty thirty k's an hour
just behind her, just not saying anything, just staring at her,
and just the intimidation intimidation factor, which is horrible.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
I can't imagine how terrifying that would have been for her.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, it's not even normal intimidation. I shouldn't even say normal.
It's not even a word that you should put together.
But it's not normally in the sense of an empty threat.
There was already the acts of violence that she knew
were coming off the back of it. So it's like
intimidation tenfold.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Of course, and the verbal as well, like there was
no doubt that he said if you leave, you know,
I actually have talked to Mum about this and telling her.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
What he would do, like where he would bury her.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I guess things like that, which is I can't imagine
what she went through so to actually work up their
courage to leave. So she's an incredible woman and so
strong and definitely you know someone and I admire so much.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Was there anything at the age that you were that
you were able to do to protect yourself? Like did
you feel as though you had to be conscious around like, okay,
what are we doing to protect ourselves from that?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, So I did everything I could to be a
good child, so you know, I'd do the best I could.
You know, my grades at school worked great. No, I
threw myself in my footy. That was something that Dad
and I had a really common bond with. He loved
his footy, so I thought I had to be good
at footy. The relationship with football was our relationship, I guess.
So when I did well at football, I'd be treated well.
When I had a bad game, I wouldn't be treated
(09:30):
well at all. He'd sometimes like take that out of
me physically in the game, play well if I didn't
play well, or we'd drive straight to the oval near
my house and practice my kicking for a couple of
hours after a game. If I had a poor game
when I'm ten eleven years old, if I played well,
I'd be rewarded with a can of coke, and if
I didn't, I wouldn't have a word said to me
on the way home, or i'd be called an embarrassment
that kind of stuff. So you know, very much kickstarted
(09:52):
that validation of looking for validation from him, and that
you carried on the majority of my life. But yeah,
so it was a of me really trying to be
a good son.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I remember I'd come home from school and just want
to tell him that we had a lunchtime kick of
the footy, how well I went, And I'd make up
stories that I went well at footy when I probably
didn't even kick the footy at lunch, just to keep
him happy.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, and hope that something violent didn't happen that night exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
And then your.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mum eventually did leave, yes, and try to move on,
And that is sort of where your story unfolds. A
little bit more can tell us about that time.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah, we did leave.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
We moved into the East Lone Sestem and I was
getting ready to go to high school. We had a
really nice period there where the trial separation, I guess
was really good and she'd moved on. She'd told Dad
a number of times that it was over, and I
guess he didn't really accept that. And we'd settled into
I'd settled into high school and I was, I'm okay
talking about this the event that kind of changed everything
(10:52):
for us. I was on the eve of going to
year nine, so it had been you know, a couple
of years. It must have been a couple of years
that we were in town for Mum had moved on,
you know, she'd found a new I wouldn't say partner,
seeing someone the early stages of relationship after you know,
finally moving on from Dad. And from my understanding that
it was Dad had accepted that, but obviously he hadn't.
(11:14):
I remember the moment that it all changed. I was
in the shower the night before year nine and I
heard Dad come in. I didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
That the new guy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Was there in the house at the time, but he was,
and I heard a bit of commotion, but I kind
of just just hit in the bathroom a little bit,
and Mom came in and pushed the door shut behind her,
and I tried to lock the door, but the door
got kicked in and Dad came in and had a
little pistol. I'm not sure the exact pistol he had,
but he hit Mom over the head with the pistol
(11:45):
and she was laying to pull the blood on the floor,
and he then shot her twice and left the house.
As he left, my sister chased him out of the house.
And she was when I was twelve, and she was
a couple of years older than me. So the courage
to do that, yeah, wow. He turned around and fight
at her and missed her by miller to shared plaster
(12:06):
in her hair and chased the man out of the
house obviously as well. So before he ran out of
the house, and this is where you know mental health.
I guess that's what the judge used. But he was vindictive.
He knew what he's doing. Smashed the phone up so
we couldn't call the police or the air mites, which
is horrible. I've gone into a bit of a shutdown
mode here. My sister said she found me under my bed,
so yeah, very chaotic times. My dad went on the
(12:31):
run for a week, so he back out near the
land that we had. He hit himself and threw the
weapon away, and you know, front page of the newspaper
was man hunt with a photo of my dad. You
know it was Yeah, that was the event that changed
everything for.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Us or else. And did you think your mum was
dead at the time.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah, yeah I did.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I remember seeing mom and I'll never get a vision
out of my head Mum in the pull of blood
on the floor and I struggle with blood. Now that's
traumatic and it's only really last year. I do a
lot of therapy now where I've really tried to work
out why, and obviously it makes sense. You know, I've
seen my mum on the floor and yeah, I definitely
thought she'd passed. But to be honest, I thought that
had happened a few times in the past as well,
(13:12):
with what I'd seen with Mum being unconscious and.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
The thing as well, it's like so incredibly frightening, is
and it's something that we see in domestic violance stories.
It's like there'd been years of separation here, or there's
been so much time of separation, you're at a point
where you feel like your lives are untangling, I guess,
and it's the lack of control that the abuser has
that makes them take such a drastic measure. What happened
(13:38):
next when you were found under the bed and with
your sister being like, how did you manage to call police?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
How did you manage to get help?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, that's something I'm still unsure of and maybe it's
something I need to I definitely need to talk to
my system. I'm sure she, you know, went into that
mode of getting everything sorted and calling police, but you
know our neighbors would have heard it as well.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I guess gunshots.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I had a lot of disdain for police for a
long time as well, because you know how they couldn't
have been aware of this. I'm sure Mum had gone
to or authority in general. You know, my school teachers,
people had seen mom with black eyes and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So do you know, I feel like, and I mean,
I don't know, this is like twenty years ago now
if we're just changing.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Yeah again, yeah, so longer. I got twenty five years,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Almost a time then. I feel like it's changing a lot.
There was a time, especially maybe where you're a little
bit more rural in Tasmania, where people were like, oh,
let's not get involved in that. People wanted to turn
a bit of a blind eye and pretend it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
One hundred percent definitely now oberceived there's more eyes on everything,
you know, social media, et cetera. And it sucks that
this is still happening, which is crazy. But yeah, definitely
people turn a blind eye to.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Things back then and then, I mean, there's so many
avenues to take here. But I can't imagine what it
must have felt like to have been like thirteen years
old and have your dad's face and your surname printed
on a paper saying wanted, you know, like attempted murder.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
What was that life for you?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I was going to school and navigating that and the feelings.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
That you would have had a lot of shame.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I remember Mum got out of hospital and the first
day of being seen in public, we went down to
my local cricket club where I played cricket. Mum was
there in a cast, and I just felt this just
an incredible amount of shame that this had happened to
my family. But I knew people that obviously were aware
of the family dynamic not being great. But yeah, that
shame and guilt, Yeah, seeing my dad's face on the paper.
(15:26):
I spoke to one of my great friends, Nate recently,
and I remember I went to his house not long
after it would have been two days after when Dad
was plastered all over the paper, and he told a
story of his mum quickly grabbing the paper that was
on the table when I walked in and hiding it
from me. So a lot of people went out of
their way to make sure I was comfortable. My best mate, Hamish,
who I owned Verdise with, we were good friends. We
(15:47):
became great friends as a result of this. You know,
he has been amazing for me. I didn't go to
school for a couple of months, obviously dealing with what
I had to go through. My first day back at school,
he didn't leave my side all day, and he didn't
leave my side for the whole remainder from year nine
ten eleven. He left to do an apprenticeship in the
year eleven, but did not leave my side. We sat
next to each other every day school, sat next to
(16:09):
each other on the bus. He protected me, and I
can say I didn't receive one moment of bullying from
anyone at school. Everyone kind of wrapped their arms around me.
And I'm so grateful for that community. That's why we
put such a big emphstas on community at VERDIS. But yeah,
I've had some amazing people in my life that helped
me through it. But yeah, definitely a lot of guilt
and shame.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What systems were in place to protect you guys and
also your mom in that week period where your dad
was not I mean like he hadn't been arrested, he's
on the run, Like I can only imagine that that
would have been incredibly frightening, Like, well, what if he
comes back?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Yeah, good question. I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
I remember I stayed with my granddad initially and then
with my godparents, who are brilliant, brilliant people. Mum was
obviously in hospital, going through what she had to go through.
She was in a coma for a little bit and
then going through the surgeries.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But yeah, this is a really good question that I
haven't even thought of this. I would have been pet
that he would have come back. I knew exactly where
he would have been, and I know he would have
had help from people hiding hiding him out. You've got
a man hunt looking for you. I'm not sure exactly who,
but he had a lot of friends out in the
bush as well, you know, And that's for a while
that really made me down thinking about who helped him.
(17:18):
And now I've made peace with it. It's okay. But
he eventually turned himself in after a week. And then
that feeling of safety. I remember feeling safe when he
was in I never felt more safe than when he
was in jail.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
What was your relationship like with him in those years
where you said like it was almost we felt like
the separation was okay and mum had moved on and
he seemed to have moved on to Did you still
have a relationship with him at that time?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I did, and it was based around football again, so
he'd come in and take me to footy every weekend
or we would still do that father son type bonding,
but it was only brief, you know, on a Saturday
afternoon or you know, a Sunday morning for footy, and
then he'd go back to the farm and work on
his stuff. So I'd go at the land we called
it the land and a little bit and help him
on the.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Tools a little bit. So it was okay, it was
getting better.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
What was the period of the sentencing like, so when
your dad had headed himself in and then it went
through the courts, what was the sentence that he was handed?
But also what did that look like in terms of
the years that he spent in jail.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
That was one of the hardest parts. Obviously testifying against
my father. My sister and I had to do it.
I remember this quite vividly. The Supreme Court in Lonceston,
and there was a building next to it where my
sister and I were, so obviously we weren't in court
face to face with Dad. We were on a video
link and testifying against Dad. He pleaded not guilty, which
is wild. He used his mental health as a what's
(18:43):
the word only for against souse, which is a horrible
word when you're talking about this, and yeah, testifying against
him was tough, especially being cross examined from his lawyer,
which I was twelve years old getting cross examined by
the lawyer of my father who tried to kill my
mum in front of you and trying to discredit what
(19:03):
I was saying as well, like, I've just witnessed something
pretty horrific and you know that was something that you know,
I won't forget. And the justice system, you know, he
let us down and he got four years. So four
years and they've taken into account his mental health struggles
but also the but the court, the judge wrote a
(19:24):
really scathing report on him, you know, which was really
really nicely written what they wrote, and not right nicely written,
but nicely in terms of him, what he did, how
horrific it was, in terms of the psychological damage you'd
done to myself and my sister and my mom, and
really scathing. But then to see only four years, you know,
it just doesn't add all.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
What was it that he was actually charged with attempted murder.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Or it was grievous bodily harm I think.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So we were talking about it earlier and I was like,
how because the amount of years just didn't make sense
in terms of what the sentencing was.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
But it seems like absolute murder.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Would have been higher.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, so it was, yeah, grievous bodily harm. And then
you know, there were so many other things he could
have been charged with, trespassing, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I think it was all thrown out.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
And it's crazy to think that.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I mean, if it had not been a domestic violence case,
if it had been a stranger walking into a house
and shooting and shooting somebody in the bathroom two times
and hitting them across the head, it would have been
attempted murder. But we've seen it statistically in the past,
and I know that there's been changes recently, but so
many domestic violence crimes get downgraded in terms of severity
(20:31):
and therefore the sentencing is less even though the crime
is the same crime.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Just because they know the family member.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Also the fact that not only if your a stranger
came in to shoot at somebody, but if a stranger
came in shot somebody and tried to shoot a teenage
girl and missed by millimeters, itself so.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Much wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Can we talk about what I imagine is the complexities
of the feelings you had at that time towards your dad,
And I guess I'm interested because you hear a lot
of people talk about these situations where they really battle
with how they feel because obviously this person has been
horrific to you, has tried to take away your mum's life,
has been so violent. But then you hear people say,
(21:11):
but I still loved them, and I couldn't figure out
my feelings, like what were you feeling at that time?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
So this was big for me because when he was
in jail. When he went to jail, I finally felt
peace and calm for the first time in my life,
and I was the happiest I'd ever been as a kid.
From I was at twelve to sixteen, I really came
into my own as a young man. I guess I
had my great friends around me. My schooling dropped away,
(21:37):
probably because I wasn't fearful of what would happen. I
kind of rebelled a bit. Some people would grow up.
I kind of feel like I regressed a bit, but
I also felt safe. I really enjoyed those years. Then
when he got out of jail, he wrote to me
every week in jail, and I never never opened those
letters much. I opened a couple, I read a couple,
but I didn't care for him at all, and I
(21:58):
kind of really blanked it out and forgot about him.
To beyonest, I tried to, and then when he got
out of jail, it all kind of changed a bit.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
We did up an old car together.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It was his way of trying to mend that repair
that bond to that father's son bond. He'd got a job,
obviously hard to get works as an ex criminals, so
he got work down the northwest coast of Tasmania's about
three hours away, and I'd go down there every couple
of weeks and work on this car with him.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
And you know, my mum kind of wanted us to
have a relationship.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So I'm not sure if that was out of fear
or of a retribution of anything happening again.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
That's so, I mean to somebody that hasn't gone through it,
and I think to a lot of people listening right now,
they wouldn't understand that.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
A lot of people would.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Think, how do you and why would your family want
to try and make amends when you know he tried
to take a life, have you figured that out, yet fear.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It all comes back to fear, you know, vindictive man.
You know he said he'd changed, but you know, you
never you'd take that with a grain of salt with
someone that's been so violent over so long. And I
guess Mum wanted me to have a relationship with my father.
But we got through that car, but I was always
I was still not giving him all of myself. I
was still in fear of something would happen. When we
(23:06):
were working on a car, I didn't see any signs
of violence. I would have not gone back if I did,
so I gave him a chance, but then he passed.
I'm going to skip over a few things. We can
come back to you. But he passed away when I
was nineteen. I joined the Navy at that stage, and
that's when, after he'd passed away, I guess my feelings
changed towards him where I still wanted that validation from
(23:29):
him even though he'd passed away, and I craved that
validation that when I was a young young boy playing
footy and trying to do the right thing, I felt
like I had to make him proud of me. And
that was a big part of my life up until
only about four or five years ago, when I've really
started doing a lot of inner work on myself and.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Put this all behind me.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But this whole period of my life, I feel like
it defined me and I've just wanted to make him proud,
which is really strange now thinking back on it. But
the effects of trauma, I guess, But.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Also in that it is years, It is decades of
psychological conditioning, living in this perpetual state of fear, but
also this perpetual state of hypervigilance of like, well, if
I do better at this, or if I behave in
this way, or if I make him happy with this,
then it won't be as bad and then I'll get
a positive outcome. Like that, from the time that you're
(24:20):
born until the time that you're nineteen years old, it's
not something that you can undo overnight, and it's not
even something that when that person passes away that you
can undo, because you've just spent your entire life trying
to be someone for this person so that they don't
hurt you or harm you. It's like your own mental
safety net.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I guess I'm looking back now, I think him passing away,
I don't think I would have had those feelings. I
guess I would have got some more answers from him.
And you know, I always feel as though, yeah, him
passing away, it kind of just ended things. And then
so I didn't have an I didn't have any answers
like no closure, no closure exactly, no closure. So that's
where that validation piece. It just keep coming back to that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You mentioned something interesting before we even started recording. You
said you started your first PT business and the name
of that business was related to your dad. Do you
look back on that now and have regretted around that?
Do you look back on that now and think like,
why did I still look for that validation piece even
when he wasn't alive anymore? What are your feelings towards
(25:22):
it now in retrospect?
Speaker 5 (25:23):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
So I named my business after I got out of
the Navy got into personal training, so always the idea
to open gyms, but I needed to build up my
client base and build up my experience, so I started
a PT business called Major Fitness. My dad's nickname was Major.
He was in the Army, and that's where that nickname
came from. And I look back with so much regret
I regret a few things in my life. That's the
(25:44):
big one for me is naming it. I don't know
how I thought that was okay in terms of putting
my mum through that, seeing major written on my hoodies
and my merch and my business.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
So when you.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Say it like that, it's I can't imagine what your
mum would have felt, But you wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Even she was so supportive of me. Yeah, and that
goes to show what she how she is as a person.
She must have put that aside. You know, I am
ashamed of that I did that. I'm not ashamed of
the business. I loved the business. I loved every minute
of that business and it's where I got to me
where I am today. But yeah, it was just I
thought I needed to make him proud. I've got major
tattooed on my arm along with I've got a lot
(26:22):
of tattoos.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
But I'm going to go over that soon. I want
to move past that, and I have.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I definitely haven't forgiven him for what's happened, but I'm
at peace with it. And it only it took till,
you know, I was in my thirties to understand that
I didn't need his approval, and it was an approval thing,
you know that I wanted to make him proud.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
When you even talk about going into the Navy. Sometimes
like we look at our parents and we have like
a blueprint for like, Okay, well that's what my mum
or my dad did, and so it kind of is
a linear path. Do you think that potentially even moving
into the military was some sort of reflective Well, this
is the same path that dad did, and so it
kind of makes sense to my journey.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Well, my sister joined before me, so I can't speak
on behalf of her, like maybe that might have been something.
But I definitely remember the day I graduated from the Navy, dad,
or from recruit school. So you do eleven weeks and
then you graduate, and I remember my dad being there
and I remember seeing him cry, and I've never seen
that in a way where he was proud of me.
So I definitely did think that big part of me
joining the military was because of him.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Did you ever in those couple of years once he
got out and you were trying to reshape your relationship,
did you ever speak about it with him, like the
why or the how? We'll talk about it all, or
did you just pretend nothing had happened and tried to
start fresh.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Not once, didn't speak about it once, and that was
through fear. I didn't know how.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I was sixteen, then sixteen, seventeen, so I didn't know
how to talk about it. He didn't try and talk
to me about it.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
We'd have a couple of years after finishing working on
the car, and sometimes I'd expect to talk about it,
but no, it was just, you know, business as usual
in terms of talking about sport.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Which also probably means he never verbalized that he was
sorry for it either, if he wasn't able to speak
about it for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
How do you think that situation reshaped or shaped your
idea of masculinity. I imagine that you had to grow
up faster, you became the man of the house, but
you'd obviously had this really skewed idea of what being
a man was, you know, with being isolated from a
lot of people in your life, like you said, when
you were younger, no neighbors that were really close, and
the only man that you had was treating you and
(28:19):
your family like that.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, I'm lucky. I honestly think I didn't grow up.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I think I regressed when he went to jail because
I didn't have that father figure. But I did have
a father figure in terms of my granddad. He's a
brilliant man, the kindest man I've known, and I knew
what a man was supposed to be like. I look
back now and the only thing I'm grateful for from
this experience is now I know what not to be
and the path not to follow. So I've had my
(28:44):
granddad my stepdad now, so Alan he's a brilliant man.
I've had some brilliant football coaches, cricket coaches. I was
in the Navy with some amazing leaders. My best friends
are amazing men. So I have had some really really
good role models that have counteracted this. But yeah, for
a long time, I struggled with my own identity and
I did feel like I was. I was petrified of
(29:06):
turning into my father, and at some stages I thought
I was. I hid myself behind a lot of alcohol
and partying and pushing people away and self sabotaging relationships
because I was scared that I was going to not
turn in my father in a physically abusive way, but
go down the same path as he did in terms
of who he was and vindictive, and yeah, so I'm
really lucky I had those great role models to pull
(29:28):
me back into line. But yeah, struggled with it with
my masculinity for a long time.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You talk about following in his footsteps, but also I
think you've in terms of taking a completely different path.
Some people really sit in the victimhood of what they've experienced.
And I don't want to devalue anyone's experience around domestic violence,
but sometimes childhood trauma shapes the rest.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Of your life.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
But can either mean that you replicate the behavior, it
means that you don't deal with it like There's so
many other ways, and it manifests in adulthood. But I
think for a lot of people who might meet you
and do not know your backstory, they would be truly
shocked that this is something that you've been through as
a kid and been able to now have incredibly successful businesses, relationships,
and have what seems like a very normal and stable base.
(30:14):
What do you think has given you the ability to
focus on those things or create that change in your life?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, great question, And I haven't been as composed and
okay with things as I am now. For a long time,
it took me a long time to get to where
I was. The victim mindset it plays a big role
in people that have been through childhood trauma. It's something
that I had for a while identified with what happened
to me, and I just saw that my life was
becoming what I didn't want it to become.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
You know, I was pushing people away.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
My relationships and my friends has always been really strong,
but romantic relationships I really struggled with. I struggled with
giving all of myself. I'd always have my guard up
and then i'd self sabotage. I've worked on this why
this happened a lot. I think it goes back to
my dad going to jail when I was young, and
my dad passing away when I was nineteen, and I
(31:02):
always felt that people were going to leave me, so
i'd push them away as well, so that mindset before,
I'd push them away before they could leave me, And
it just got to a stage where I was done
with that. It wasn't just one thing, it was a
number of things that led to that. I just didn't
see my life. I wanted to be proud of who
I was and a bit of a kick up the
(31:23):
ass from Hamish, one of my best mates, and I
speak about him a lot. He's been brilliant for me.
My ex partner, she was brilliant for me in terms
of pushing me into working on myself and therapy, and
I'll be forever grateful for that. So, like I said,
I've had some amazing people that have pushed me in
the right direction. And now I make sure my daily routines,
I'm journaling, I'm practicing that gratitude. I'm seeing my therapist weekly,
(31:47):
if not weekly, fortnightly. I'm routine driven, which is a
big thing for me, and just making sure I'm doing
those things that are going to hold me in good stead.
So yeah, I use it a little bit as fuel
now as opposed to that victim mindset.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
You do speak a lot about the fact that you
developed PTSD off the back of this childhood trauma. What
has that experience been like for you? Do you still
have experiences with PTSD now? Do you still battle with that?
Is it something that you can quote unquote outgrow with
therapy or is it something that you're going to deal
with forever.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I definitely battle with it, not as much now. I
did for a long time. It wasn't until probably my
late twenties that really kicked in. I found when I
left the Navy. And I speak about routine a lot.
I speak about it with my clients. I speak about
consistency and routine. When I left the Navy, I struggled
with identity. You know, I was proud of my career.
I was proud of my job, and then I left
and there was an eighteen month period there where I
(32:40):
was just doing a few jobs. You know, I was
a fitter by trade, so working a few companies, and
it wasn't until I found my passion and my purpose
that you know, I got back into that routine and structure.
So that's that's what I'm getting out in terms of
routine and structure. That's what holds me in good stead
with that. But yeah, I get flashbacks a fair bit.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I've struggled with loud noises, so obviously with what went
on back home, and you know that's I'm working in
a gym environment. There's loud noises all the time. So
it's just about being able to better deal with those triggers.
You know, I still have days where I you know,
will snap at someone because I'm triggered. But I'm doing
what i can to try and get better at recognizing
those triggers. And you know, I feel as though I've
(33:18):
got it under control at the moment.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I'm in a really good place at the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I haven't always been that way, and I always
put it back to routine and structure.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Excuse my David, But what does PTSD look like like?
What does it present like? And for you, I guess
like when did it start?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So I guess I can't put a time on on
when it started. Living in that constant state of you know,
fight or flight, you know, I'll get some flashbacks and
whether that be you know, visuals or just a feeling
I'm feeling confused, feeling really really stressed time. I get
really stressed with time, and I'm not sure why. You know,
if I'm running late for somewhere, I will always get
(33:54):
somewhere half an hour early, or i've got a domestic flight,
sometimes I'll get there two hours early to a very early.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
For this introvia, I was like, wow, creating in.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
My car out front for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
But yeah, it's just that high stress and so I'll
do everything I can to avoid being stressed, and I
don't know when it all happens.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
Some days.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I've been coaching now for fifteen years, and I love
my job so much, and I love Vertice and I
love my members, and some days I'll just get a
panic attack before I talk in front of people, or
it'll come from nowhere.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
It'll be a wave of anxiety.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There used to be a lot of dark thoughts, but
I found like I can manage that pretty well with
my fitness, my structure, my routine.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
How do you I mean, you're so open in how
you speak about everything, which is I guess very different
to how we kind of frame men being able to
share their experiences and their emotions and everything else. How
do you find speaking with people around this and the
community that you've built for yourself with other specifically, I
(34:52):
mean with other men, what impacts that had on you
and what impact has it had on them?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
To be able to share this story.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It's tough as a I come from a a culture
where I joined the Navy when I was eighteen, and
then I was always playing football then manly men, so
we don't talk about this kind of stuff. But I
put it back to my close group of friends. We
hold each other accountable. We talk about anything and everything.
My best mate, Hamish's got Crohn's disease, which he battles
with and it's really rattled him and you know, it
(35:20):
sucks to see him go through what he has to
go through. But we're very open and we talk about things.
And I'm very open about my story now because I
know everyone's going through a little bit. It's not everyone's
going through something, but a lot of us do struggle
with you know, anything, and I know.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
How cathartic it is for me to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And when I did start opening up, and it started
with a couple of posts on Instagram and then it
led to you know podcasts and talking you know, at
public speaking at events, and it is the most cathartic
experience getting it out there. And I've had so many
brilliant messages from people that have now started therapy or
started talking to their partner and just that I can
(35:57):
help a little bit, and we can all help a
little bit by sharing us stories.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
It's only a positive thing, so I'm more than happy
to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
It is incredible to see and I hate saying this
but you and hainleish your business part enough. As an example,
you both embody I guess, the traditional sense of masculinity,
which is you're big, you're strong, you're muscly, you work out,
you were in the navy, like you had this routine.
We look at that to be traditional masculinity. But you
(36:23):
both speak so openly and you're so vulnerable about the
stories you know that have affected you. Hame with his
crones as well, like you know, he's got severe crones.
He's in hospital with it, and he's battling his own,
you know, his own issues. But the way that you
guys speak about it, and like you just said, since
you became more open about it, you've realized, hang on,
there are a lot of men that also want to
talk about this, but they haven't been given the green
(36:45):
light to say it's okay. And I think that that
is a really beautiful outcome of you and something probably
you've realized yourself, even when you said a big part
of what helped you, as you know, in your teenage
years with the fact that you had a few really
good friends males that said it's okay to talk and
I'll be here for you, and You're very lucky that
you had that you are. I've seen your little nail there,
(37:05):
You've got a blue nail nail polish on. You're an
ambassador for the Polish Man as somebody that went through
this sort of horrific violence as a child, having your
mum who tried to leave so many times but couldn't.
Now that you can make a difference and you can
put things in place as someone who's lived it, what
do you think would have helped you, guys at that time?
(37:26):
What can we be doing now as a community, in
a society for people that are in your situation now
because there are still so many people, there's more families
than ever experiencing this kind of violence. What would have
helped you at that time?
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Which is wild? This is still happening.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
It's really hard to comprehend and this day and age
that this stuff still still does happen. And I've jumped
on board as an ambassador for Polish Man. We're a
really good initiative, really great initiative in trying to end
domestic violence and really helping women and children that have
been affected by this. So I will put my name
to them for sure. I love being a part of
something that's that I needed when I was younger. I guess,
(38:03):
like you said myself, Hamish, where just gym owners. We're
normal people, but we've been through a lot, and that's
I guess what I needed growing up is to you know,
it goes back to be the person you needed when
you were growing up, you know, and to have just
a normal guy to understand that other people went through
what I was going through. It would have been amazing
(38:25):
for me growing up. So I try and be that
for others and just anyone in the gym especially, we
try and create a safe space for everyone when they're
coming in. I think that's our point of difference is
breaking down that barrier of just being a gym. We
want to create a community where, you know, like we
had you said before, we had chats in the sauna
and getting people to talk and be vulnerable in a
space that is not typically that you know, it used
(38:46):
to be a bit of a march o place to
the gym, but we don't want it to be at
or we want that to be the best hour of
the day where people can you know, be themselves and
be around like minded people and you know, have a
bit of fun and let go of whatever they're holding
on to.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
In terms of like tangible change, do you think for
your situation it would have helped you more to have
a safe place that your family could have been able
to go to, or structural change within the law system,
like the police coming down harder. What are the things
that we could be changing in society?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well, I was lucky enough that we did have some
safe places in terms of grandparents or godparents, the law
back then, and like I said, I had a lot
of disdain for authority because they didn't put a stop
to it. But yeah, there needs to be something in
place in terms of protection, and I'm not sure what
that is.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
I'm not in that landscape.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
But four years is alive.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Exactly, and that's what we need to get better at
at understanding why it was just four years and not
let that happen again, because it's shocking. And I think
what I can do is just raise awareness. And that's
what we all can do, is raise awareness. It's horrible
that people are still going through it.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Rawlson, thank you so much for coming on sharing a
story today. You speak so well and so beautifully about it,
and you can tell it. You have gone through lot,
but you've done so much work on yourself and it's
incredible that you are reliving your trauma every single day
to help other people. That's what we're about here and
we can't thank you enough for coming on today.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Thank you for having me. Guys, it's been great to
have a chat. It'll stem from that chat in the sauna, but.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Sorry, things happen. I really have a way of dona.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
An uncomfortable place the sauna. It all comes out.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
But yeah, thanks so much for having me, and I'm
more than happy to share my story if it helps
one person. It is tough but reliving those moments, but yeah,
if it can help one or can help one hundred,
you know it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
So thank you again.
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life. I'm Cut, I'm Laura,
I'm Brittany.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And today we have a very special guest. We're joined
by Rawson Kirkhope. Rawson is a Navy VET. He's a
childhood domestic violence survivor, the co founder of Vertus, which
is where I met Rawson at our local gym in Bondai.
We met maybe eighteen months ago and became pretty fast friends,
and that was how I first came across Rawson's story.
What Rawson experienced as a child at the hands of
(00:38):
his father is truly unfathomable. When Rawson was just twelve
years old, he witnessed his father shoot his mother, trying
to end her life, his sister narrowly escaping the same fate.
This event would shape his life and leave him with PTSD,
something that he has had to learn to live with.
In this episode, Rawson shares what it was like to
grow up never knowing whether you're truly safe at home,
(01:00):
about what trauma does to your sense of identity, the
complexity of loving someone whilst simultaneously being absolutely terrified of them,
and how those early years shaped the man that he
would go on to become. We're also going to speak
about reshaping masculinity. Now, if this topic is sensitive for you,
please take care while listening and know that there is
absolutely no pressure to sit through this whole conversation in
(01:21):
one go. You can go and come back or maybe
this episode is not for you at all. Also a
reminder that there is always help available and someone to
talk to on one hundred. Respect Ross and welcome to
the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thank you, Britt, Thank you guys, thank for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
It feels I mean, we just toss it around and
we're like, do we do accidentally unfiltered on this? And
Britt was like, I've checked and Rosson's cool, so.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
But but genuinely because I mean a lot of the
conversation that we're covering on this is very heavy, so
sometimes it feels a bit odd to do abate and
switch between like Okay, well, what's your most embarrassing moment?
But it is a staple of our podcast and we're
going to kick it off with that.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
So what is your most embarrassing moment?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Sure, sure, mine's quite tame, I think in comparison to
some of the other guests you've had on especially what.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I've just heard so red bullshitting in the street.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah, mine's definitely not going down that path. But I'm
very much a clumsy person, which a lot of people
will find hard to believe being a gym owner and
being a very active person, but being in the gym,
I'm always tripping over things. I'm always hitting my head
on things in front of members. And one thing that
came to mind, I was demonstrating some cleans in the gym,
some barbell cleans, and this happened just about a month ago,
and that barbell hit me in the chin.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
My mouth started feeling with blood.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I chipped a little bit of my tongue and had
to continue on speaking with blood kind of coming down
my mouth.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
Wasn't my finest moment. But this actually, if you come
into the gym, you'll find it happens. Happens a lot.
So I'm a very clumsy person.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
So you just try and play it cool, like nothing
to see here, blood dripping down your face, yea, and
play it off.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah, it doesn't hurt, and then quickly get the class
started and run to the bathroom and.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Get No one stopped down to try and help you.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
No, I think people are quite intimidated when the class
is happening. But yeah, I finally got into it and
everything worked out well.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Ross and your story. We talked about domestic violence on
the podcast Affairbit. I feel as though for anyone who
hasn't or isn't aware of what it was that you
went through as a kid, like your version of it
is very extreme, probably one of the most extreme versions
that you can experience.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Can you talk to us a.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Little bit about what your childhood was like in the
early years growing up, what the relationship was with your
mum and your dad and just kind of those I
guess foundational years before everything went terribly wrong.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Sure, So to set the scene, I guess I grew
up in Tasmania. I loved Tazy.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It's a beautiful part of the world and I get
back there as much as I can. But yeah, growing up,
I grew up on a farm just outside of Lanceston,
so the major little town in northern Tasmania. And we
had a sandstone quarry, so dad had a sandstone mine
and it was a beautiful place to grow up. We
had a river running through our property, and you know,
I was very outdoorsy. I threw myself in every sport
that I could. But yeah, it was a lot of
(03:53):
fear growing up. My dad was a very violent man.
He had some head injuries. He had a car accident
when I was just after I was born and developed
a lot of head injuries and including schizophrenia was a
big one. So he could switch very quickly. He was
a very proud man and if things weren't going his way,
he would turn violent very quickly. And that was violent
(04:14):
to myself, my sister, and my mum, especially my mum.
My sister and I copped it a lot, but Mum
copped the brunt of that. And it was living in
that constant state of fear I guess where I didn't
know when it would happen. I did have some beautiful
memories of growing up and beautiful memories with my dad
as well and my sister. My sister and I were
best friends and we did everything together, and my mum
was a brilliant mum and she still he is a
(04:35):
brilliant mum. But yeah, that constant state of fear was
something that you know, I struggled with and I still
do to this day.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
But yeah, growing up was tough when you said your
dad had an accident and he had head injuries, and
I'm sure you've spoken to your mum over the years.
Did that change his personality? Was he a different person
after this experience or was he always someone who had
those volatile tendencies.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yes, so this is something I've spoken to mum about
a lot. Obviously I was I was a couple of
months old, so I don't have any knowledge of him
prior to this.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
But he was a violent man growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
He was in and out of you know, bar fights
and violence, and he was violent, and not to the
extremities that he was post the head injuries, yeah, but yeah,
a violent man and growing up in that era. I
know that his father put him through some stuff as well,
and that generational trauma, which is something I'm really focused
on breaking. He was a violent man, but yeah, not
to the extent that happened later on in life.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
How did it present itself and how frequent? And because
you were only a small baby, so I'm sure you
don't remember those early years. And it sounds like your
mum was copying the brunt of that. And you have
an older sister that I.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
Do Amelia yes, she's a couple of years older than me.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So when do you start to remember. I guess
that something wasn't right and then that's not normal and
people shouldn't be behaving that way, or you know, having
violence in a family home.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Well, it's funny because obviously we grew up in a farm,
so we were a bit distance from neighbors, friends and family.
So you know, you think think everything's normal until you
find out that it's not. So I guess, you know,
up until five six seven, when I started going to
school and seeing happy families instead of what we were
going through, I thought it was normal.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
But it was quite normal the.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Violence, so I'd say once or twice weekly, it wasn't
every single day, which I think made it a little
bit harder because you have those good days where everything's
great and then all of a sudden, just you know,
it could be a cold dinner that's not up to
Dad's liking, or something's happened at work, and then it
would be just sheer chaos, which was tough to do with.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It's also terrorizing when you can't predict it, because you
find yourself walking on eggshells for fear of being the
reason that it triggers something that's such a petrifying way
for a kid to exist.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
So it was always quite sudden, like I said, but
it was fists. I saw my mum thrown through walls,
like numerous occasions, I'd say fifteen twenty times, and my
sister and myself copying a bit of that as well,
But it was mum, she drives to school with black eyes,
and you know, it was tough, tough to deal with.
You know, we tried to leave so many times. I
(07:02):
guess you don't really know how hard it is to
leave until you're in that situation yourself, and you see
it a lot well with people asking why didn't you leave?
Speaker 5 (07:09):
Yeah, my mum she.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Was petrified, but she stayed with dad for us, I guess,
or that fear of leaving and then something you know,
really catastrophic happened later when we did try to leave.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Have you spoken to because I mean, there's so much
research now that's come out around like how challenging it
is for victims of domestic balance to leave, how many
times it usually takes them also in that leaving is
more often than not the most dangerous time for victims.
Have you spoken to your mum around like, what were
the reasons why it was so hard for her to
separate or to leave at that time when she was
(07:40):
obviously going through such hell in her own home.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
I haven't spoke to much about it, but I know
that it was fear, one hundred percent fear, so fear
of leaving. She's told me one story which is terrifying,
and I know the street that she talks about this happening.
So we moved into town, into East Lonceston. Right into town,
we'll forty minutes out town where our farm was when
I was around eleven twelve, when I was just about
to get into high school. So to stay more settled
(08:06):
and not have to travel so far to school, that
was our chance of trialing time away from dad. And
Dad would would stalk Mum in a way where Mom
would be taking the dog for a walk and he'd
be driving the car at twenty thirty k's an hour
just behind her, just not saying anything, just staring at her,
and just the intimidation intimidation factor, which is horrible.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
I can't imagine how terrifying that would have been for her.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, it's not even normal intimidation. I shouldn't even say normal.
It's not even a word that you should put together.
But it's not normally in the sense of an empty threat.
There was already the acts of violence that she knew
were coming off the back of it. So it's like
intimidation tenfold.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Of course, and the verbal as well, like there was
no doubt that he said if you leave, you know,
I actually have talked to Mum about this and telling her.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
What he would do, like where he would bury her.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I guess things like that, which is I can't imagine
what she went through so to actually work up their
courage to leave. So she's an incredible woman and so
strong and definitely you know someone and I admire so much.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Was there anything at the age that you were that
you were able to do to protect yourself? Like did
you feel as though you had to be conscious around like, okay,
what are we doing to protect ourselves from that?
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, So I did everything I could to be a
good child, so you know, I'd do the best I could.
You know, my grades at school worked great. No, I
threw myself in my footy. That was something that Dad
and I had a really common bond with. He loved
his footy, so I thought I had to be good
at footy. The relationship with football was our relationship, I guess.
So when I did well at football, I'd be treated well.
When I had a bad game, I wouldn't be treated
(09:30):
well at all. He'd sometimes like take that out of
me physically in the game, play well if I didn't
play well, or we'd drive straight to the oval near
my house and practice my kicking for a couple of
hours after a game. If I had a poor game
when I'm ten eleven years old, if I played well,
I'd be rewarded with a can of coke, and if
I didn't, I wouldn't have a word said to me
on the way home, or i'd be called an embarrassment
that kind of stuff. So you know, very much kickstarted
(09:52):
that validation of looking for validation from him, and that
you carried on the majority of my life. But yeah,
so it was a of me really trying to be
a good son.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I remember I'd come home from school and just want
to tell him that we had a lunchtime kick of
the footy, how well I went, And I'd make up
stories that I went well at footy when I probably
didn't even kick the footy at lunch, just to keep
him happy.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, and hope that something violent didn't happen that night exactly.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
And then your.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mum eventually did leave, yes, and try to move on,
And that is sort of where your story unfolds. A
little bit more can tell us about that time.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
Yeah, we did leave.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
We moved into the East Lone Sestem and I was
getting ready to go to high school. We had a
really nice period there where the trial separation, I guess
was really good and she'd moved on. She'd told Dad
a number of times that it was over, and I
guess he didn't really accept that. And we'd settled into
I'd settled into high school and I was, I'm okay
talking about this the event that kind of changed everything
(10:52):
for us. I was on the eve of going to
year nine, so it had been you know, a couple
of years. It must have been a couple of years
that we were in town for Mum had moved on,
you know, she'd found a new I wouldn't say partner,
seeing someone the early stages of relationship after you know,
finally moving on from Dad. And from my understanding that
it was Dad had accepted that, but obviously he hadn't.
(11:14):
I remember the moment that it all changed. I was
in the shower the night before year nine and I
heard Dad come in. I didn't realize.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
That the new guy.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Was there in the house at the time, but he was,
and I heard a bit of commotion, but I kind
of just just hit in the bathroom a little bit,
and Mom came in and pushed the door shut behind her,
and I tried to lock the door, but the door
got kicked in and Dad came in and had a
little pistol. I'm not sure the exact pistol he had,
but he hit Mom over the head with the pistol
(11:45):
and she was laying to pull the blood on the floor,
and he then shot her twice and left the house.
As he left, my sister chased him out of the house.
And she was when I was twelve, and she was
a couple of years older than me. So the courage
to do that, yeah, wow. He turned around and fight
at her and missed her by miller to shared plaster
(12:06):
in her hair and chased the man out of the
house obviously as well. So before he ran out of
the house, and this is where you know mental health.
I guess that's what the judge used. But he was vindictive.
He knew what he's doing. Smashed the phone up so
we couldn't call the police or the air mites, which
is horrible. I've gone into a bit of a shutdown
mode here. My sister said she found me under my bed,
so yeah, very chaotic times. My dad went on the
(12:31):
run for a week, so he back out near the
land that we had. He hit himself and threw the
weapon away, and you know, front page of the newspaper
was man hunt with a photo of my dad. You
know it was Yeah, that was the event that changed
everything for.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Us or else. And did you think your mum was
dead at the time.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Yeah, yeah I did.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I remember seeing mom and I'll never get a vision
out of my head Mum in the pull of blood
on the floor and I struggle with blood. Now that's
traumatic and it's only really last year. I do a
lot of therapy now where I've really tried to work
out why, and obviously it makes sense. You know, I've
seen my mum on the floor and yeah, I definitely
thought she'd passed. But to be honest, I thought that
had happened a few times in the past as well,
(13:12):
with what I'd seen with Mum being unconscious and.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
The thing as well, it's like so incredibly frightening, is
and it's something that we see in domestic violance stories.
It's like there'd been years of separation here, or there's
been so much time of separation, you're at a point
where you feel like your lives are untangling, I guess,
and it's the lack of control that the abuser has
that makes them take such a drastic measure. What happened
(13:38):
next when you were found under the bed and with
your sister being like, how did you manage to call police?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
How did you manage to get help?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, that's something I'm still unsure of and maybe it's
something I need to I definitely need to talk to
my system. I'm sure she, you know, went into that
mode of getting everything sorted and calling police, but you
know our neighbors would have heard it as well.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I guess gunshots.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I had a lot of disdain for police for a
long time as well, because you know how they couldn't
have been aware of this. I'm sure Mum had gone
to or authority in general. You know, my school teachers,
people had seen mom with black eyes and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So do you know, I feel like, and I mean,
I don't know, this is like twenty years ago now
if we're just changing.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
Yeah again, yeah, so longer. I got twenty five years,
but it was.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Almost a time then. I feel like it's changing a lot.
There was a time, especially maybe where you're a little
bit more rural in Tasmania, where people were like, oh,
let's not get involved in that. People wanted to turn
a bit of a blind eye and pretend it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
One hundred percent definitely now oberceived there's more eyes on everything,
you know, social media, et cetera. And it sucks that
this is still happening, which is crazy. But yeah, definitely
people turn a blind eye to.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Things back then and then, I mean, there's so many
avenues to take here. But I can't imagine what it
must have felt like to have been like thirteen years
old and have your dad's face and your surname printed
on a paper saying wanted, you know, like attempted murder.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
What was that life for you?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I was going to school and navigating that and the feelings.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
That you would have had a lot of shame.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I remember Mum got out of hospital and the first
day of being seen in public, we went down to
my local cricket club where I played cricket. Mum was
there in a cast, and I just felt this just
an incredible amount of shame that this had happened to
my family. But I knew people that obviously were aware
of the family dynamic not being great. But yeah, that
shame and guilt, Yeah, seeing my dad's face on the paper.
(15:26):
I spoke to one of my great friends, Nate recently,
and I remember I went to his house not long
after it would have been two days after when Dad
was plastered all over the paper, and he told a
story of his mum quickly grabbing the paper that was
on the table when I walked in and hiding it
from me. So a lot of people went out of
their way to make sure I was comfortable. My best mate, Hamish,
who I owned Verdise with, we were good friends. We
(15:47):
became great friends as a result of this. You know,
he has been amazing for me. I didn't go to
school for a couple of months, obviously dealing with what
I had to go through. My first day back at school,
he didn't leave my side all day, and he didn't
leave my side for the whole remainder from year nine
ten eleven. He left to do an apprenticeship in the
year eleven, but did not leave my side. We sat
next to each other every day school, sat next to
(16:09):
each other on the bus. He protected me, and I
can say I didn't receive one moment of bullying from
anyone at school. Everyone kind of wrapped their arms around me.
And I'm so grateful for that community. That's why we
put such a big emphstas on community at VERDIS. But yeah,
I've had some amazing people in my life that helped
me through it. But yeah, definitely a lot of guilt
and shame.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
What systems were in place to protect you guys and
also your mom in that week period where your dad
was not I mean like he hadn't been arrested, he's
on the run, Like I can only imagine that that
would have been incredibly frightening, Like, well, what if he
comes back?
Speaker 5 (16:42):
Yeah, good question. I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
I remember I stayed with my granddad initially and then
with my godparents, who are brilliant, brilliant people. Mum was
obviously in hospital, going through what she had to go through.
She was in a coma for a little bit and
then going through the surgeries.
Speaker 4 (16:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
But yeah, this is a really good question that I
haven't even thought of this. I would have been pet
that he would have come back. I knew exactly where
he would have been, and I know he would have
had help from people hiding hiding him out. You've got
a man hunt looking for you. I'm not sure exactly who,
but he had a lot of friends out in the
bush as well, you know, And that's for a while
that really made me down thinking about who helped him.
(17:18):
And now I've made peace with it. It's okay. But
he eventually turned himself in after a week. And then
that feeling of safety. I remember feeling safe when he
was in I never felt more safe than when he
was in jail.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
What was your relationship like with him in those years
where you said like it was almost we felt like
the separation was okay and mum had moved on and
he seemed to have moved on to Did you still
have a relationship with him at that time?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I did, and it was based around football again, so
he'd come in and take me to footy every weekend
or we would still do that father son type bonding,
but it was only brief, you know, on a Saturday
afternoon or you know, a Sunday morning for footy, and
then he'd go back to the farm and work on
his stuff. So I'd go at the land we called
it the land and a little bit and help him
on the.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Tools a little bit. So it was okay, it was
getting better.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
What was the period of the sentencing like, so when
your dad had headed himself in and then it went
through the courts, what was the sentence that he was handed?
But also what did that look like in terms of
the years that he spent in jail.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
That was one of the hardest parts. Obviously testifying against
my father. My sister and I had to do it.
I remember this quite vividly. The Supreme Court in Lonceston,
and there was a building next to it where my
sister and I were, so obviously we weren't in court
face to face with Dad. We were on a video
link and testifying against Dad. He pleaded not guilty, which
is wild. He used his mental health as a what's
(18:43):
the word only for against souse, which is a horrible
word when you're talking about this, and yeah, testifying against
him was tough, especially being cross examined from his lawyer,
which I was twelve years old getting cross examined by
the lawyer of my father who tried to kill my
mum in front of you and trying to discredit what
(19:03):
I was saying as well, like, I've just witnessed something
pretty horrific and you know that was something that you know,
I won't forget. And the justice system, you know, he
let us down and he got four years. So four
years and they've taken into account his mental health struggles
but also the but the court, the judge wrote a
(19:24):
really scathing report on him, you know, which was really
really nicely written what they wrote, and not right nicely written,
but nicely in terms of him, what he did, how
horrific it was, in terms of the psychological damage you'd
done to myself and my sister and my mom, and
really scathing. But then to see only four years, you know,
it just doesn't add all.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
What was it that he was actually charged with attempted murder.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
Or it was grievous bodily harm I think.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
So we were talking about it earlier and I was like,
how because the amount of years just didn't make sense
in terms of what the sentencing was.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
But it seems like absolute murder.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Would have been higher.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yeah, so it was, yeah, grievous bodily harm. And then
you know, there were so many other things he could
have been charged with, trespassing, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
I think it was all thrown out.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
And it's crazy to think that.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
I mean, if it had not been a domestic violence case,
if it had been a stranger walking into a house
and shooting and shooting somebody in the bathroom two times
and hitting them across the head, it would have been
attempted murder. But we've seen it statistically in the past,
and I know that there's been changes recently, but so
many domestic violence crimes get downgraded in terms of severity
(20:31):
and therefore the sentencing is less even though the crime
is the same crime.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Just because they know the family member.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Also the fact that not only if your a stranger
came in to shoot at somebody, but if a stranger
came in shot somebody and tried to shoot a teenage
girl and missed by millimeters, itself so.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Much wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Can we talk about what I imagine is the complexities
of the feelings you had at that time towards your dad,
And I guess I'm interested because you hear a lot
of people talk about these situations where they really battle
with how they feel because obviously this person has been
horrific to you, has tried to take away your mum's life,
has been so violent. But then you hear people say,
(21:11):
but I still loved them, and I couldn't figure out
my feelings, like what were you feeling at that time?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
So this was big for me because when he was
in jail. When he went to jail, I finally felt
peace and calm for the first time in my life,
and I was the happiest I'd ever been as a kid.
From I was at twelve to sixteen, I really came
into my own as a young man. I guess I
had my great friends around me. My schooling dropped away,
(21:37):
probably because I wasn't fearful of what would happen. I
kind of rebelled a bit. Some people would grow up.
I kind of feel like I regressed a bit, but
I also felt safe. I really enjoyed those years. Then
when he got out of jail, he wrote to me
every week in jail, and I never never opened those
letters much. I opened a couple, I read a couple,
but I didn't care for him at all, and I
(21:58):
kind of really blanked it out and forgot about him.
To beyonest, I tried to, and then when he got
out of jail, it all kind of changed a bit.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
We did up an old car together.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
It was his way of trying to mend that repair
that bond to that father's son bond. He'd got a job,
obviously hard to get works as an ex criminals, so
he got work down the northwest coast of Tasmania's about
three hours away, and I'd go down there every couple
of weeks and work on this car with him.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
And you know, my mum kind of wanted us to
have a relationship.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So I'm not sure if that was out of fear
or of a retribution of anything happening again.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
That's so, I mean to somebody that hasn't gone through it,
and I think to a lot of people listening right now,
they wouldn't understand that.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
A lot of people would.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Think, how do you and why would your family want
to try and make amends when you know he tried
to take a life, have you figured that out, yet fear.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
It all comes back to fear, you know, vindictive man.
You know he said he'd changed, but you know, you
never you'd take that with a grain of salt with
someone that's been so violent over so long. And I
guess Mum wanted me to have a relationship with my father.
But we got through that car, but I was always
I was still not giving him all of myself. I
was still in fear of something would happen. When we
(23:06):
were working on a car, I didn't see any signs
of violence. I would have not gone back if I did,
so I gave him a chance, but then he passed.
I'm going to skip over a few things. We can
come back to you. But he passed away when I
was nineteen. I joined the Navy at that stage, and
that's when, after he'd passed away, I guess my feelings
changed towards him where I still wanted that validation from
(23:29):
him even though he'd passed away, and I craved that
validation that when I was a young young boy playing
footy and trying to do the right thing, I felt
like I had to make him proud of me. And
that was a big part of my life up until
only about four or five years ago, when I've really
started doing a lot of inner work on myself and.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Put this all behind me.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
But this whole period of my life, I feel like
it defined me and I've just wanted to make him proud,
which is really strange now thinking back on it. But
the effects of trauma, I guess, But.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Also in that it is years, It is decades of
psychological conditioning, living in this perpetual state of fear, but
also this perpetual state of hypervigilance of like, well, if
I do better at this, or if I behave in
this way, or if I make him happy with this,
then it won't be as bad and then I'll get
a positive outcome. Like that, from the time that you're
(24:20):
born until the time that you're nineteen years old, it's
not something that you can undo overnight, and it's not
even something that when that person passes away that you
can undo, because you've just spent your entire life trying
to be someone for this person so that they don't
hurt you or harm you. It's like your own mental
safety net.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
I guess I'm looking back now, I think him passing away,
I don't think I would have had those feelings. I
guess I would have got some more answers from him.
And you know, I always feel as though, yeah, him
passing away, it kind of just ended things. And then
so I didn't have an I didn't have any answers
like no closure, no closure exactly, no closure. So that's
where that validation piece. It just keep coming back to that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
You mentioned something interesting before we even started recording. You
said you started your first PT business and the name
of that business was related to your dad. Do you
look back on that now and have regretted around that?
Do you look back on that now and think like,
why did I still look for that validation piece even
when he wasn't alive anymore? What are your feelings towards
(25:22):
it now in retrospect?
Speaker 5 (25:23):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
So I named my business after I got out of
the Navy got into personal training, so always the idea
to open gyms, but I needed to build up my
client base and build up my experience, so I started
a PT business called Major Fitness. My dad's nickname was Major.
He was in the Army, and that's where that nickname
came from. And I look back with so much regret
I regret a few things in my life. That's the
(25:44):
big one for me is naming it. I don't know
how I thought that was okay in terms of putting
my mum through that, seeing major written on my hoodies
and my merch and my business.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
So when you.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Say it like that, it's I can't imagine what your
mum would have felt, But you wouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Even she was so supportive of me. Yeah, and that
goes to show what she how she is as a person.
She must have put that aside. You know, I am
ashamed of that I did that. I'm not ashamed of
the business. I loved the business. I loved every minute
of that business and it's where I got to me
where I am today. But yeah, it was just I
thought I needed to make him proud. I've got major
tattooed on my arm along with I've got a lot
(26:22):
of tattoos.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
But I'm going to go over that soon. I want
to move past that, and I have.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
I definitely haven't forgiven him for what's happened, but I'm
at peace with it. And it only it took till,
you know, I was in my thirties to understand that
I didn't need his approval, and it was an approval thing,
you know that I wanted to make him proud.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
When you even talk about going into the Navy. Sometimes
like we look at our parents and we have like
a blueprint for like, Okay, well that's what my mum
or my dad did, and so it kind of is
a linear path. Do you think that potentially even moving
into the military was some sort of reflective Well, this
is the same path that dad did, and so it
kind of makes sense to my journey.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Well, my sister joined before me, so I can't speak
on behalf of her, like maybe that might have been something.
But I definitely remember the day I graduated from the Navy, dad,
or from recruit school. So you do eleven weeks and
then you graduate, and I remember my dad being there
and I remember seeing him cry, and I've never seen
that in a way where he was proud of me.
So I definitely did think that big part of me
joining the military was because of him.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Did you ever in those couple of years once he
got out and you were trying to reshape your relationship,
did you ever speak about it with him, like the
why or the how? We'll talk about it all, or
did you just pretend nothing had happened and tried to
start fresh.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
Not once, didn't speak about it once, and that was
through fear. I didn't know how.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
I was sixteen, then sixteen, seventeen, so I didn't know
how to talk about it. He didn't try and talk
to me about it.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
We'd have a couple of years after finishing working on
the car, and sometimes I'd expect to talk about it,
but no, it was just, you know, business as usual
in terms of talking about sport.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Which also probably means he never verbalized that he was
sorry for it either, if he wasn't able to speak
about it for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
How do you think that situation reshaped or shaped your
idea of masculinity. I imagine that you had to grow
up faster, you became the man of the house, but
you'd obviously had this really skewed idea of what being
a man was, you know, with being isolated from a
lot of people in your life, like you said, when
you were younger, no neighbors that were really close, and
the only man that you had was treating you and
(28:19):
your family like that.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yeah, I'm lucky. I honestly think I didn't grow up.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I think I regressed when he went to jail because
I didn't have that father figure. But I did have
a father figure in terms of my granddad. He's a
brilliant man, the kindest man I've known, and I knew
what a man was supposed to be like. I look
back now and the only thing I'm grateful for from
this experience is now I know what not to be
and the path not to follow. So I've had my
(28:44):
granddad my stepdad now, so Alan he's a brilliant man.
I've had some brilliant football coaches, cricket coaches. I was
in the Navy with some amazing leaders. My best friends
are amazing men. So I have had some really really
good role models that have counteracted this. But yeah, for
a long time, I struggled with my own identity and
I did feel like I was. I was petrified of
(29:06):
turning into my father, and at some stages I thought
I was. I hid myself behind a lot of alcohol
and partying and pushing people away and self sabotaging relationships
because I was scared that I was going to not
turn in my father in a physically abusive way, but
go down the same path as he did in terms
of who he was and vindictive, and yeah, so I'm
really lucky I had those great role models to pull
(29:28):
me back into line. But yeah, struggled with it with
my masculinity for a long time.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You talk about following in his footsteps, but also I
think you've in terms of taking a completely different path.
Some people really sit in the victimhood of what they've experienced.
And I don't want to devalue anyone's experience around domestic violence,
but sometimes childhood trauma shapes the rest.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Of your life.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
But can either mean that you replicate the behavior, it
means that you don't deal with it like There's so
many other ways, and it manifests in adulthood. But I
think for a lot of people who might meet you
and do not know your backstory, they would be truly
shocked that this is something that you've been through as
a kid and been able to now have incredibly successful businesses, relationships,
and have what seems like a very normal and stable base.
(30:14):
What do you think has given you the ability to
focus on those things or create that change in your life?
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, great question, And I haven't been as composed and
okay with things as I am now. For a long time,
it took me a long time to get to where
I was. The victim mindset it plays a big role
in people that have been through childhood trauma. It's something
that I had for a while identified with what happened
to me, and I just saw that my life was
becoming what I didn't want it to become.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
You know, I was pushing people away.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
My relationships and my friends has always been really strong,
but romantic relationships I really struggled with. I struggled with
giving all of myself. I'd always have my guard up
and then i'd self sabotage. I've worked on this why
this happened a lot. I think it goes back to
my dad going to jail when I was young, and
my dad passing away when I was nineteen, and I
(31:02):
always felt that people were going to leave me, so
i'd push them away as well, so that mindset before,
I'd push them away before they could leave me, And
it just got to a stage where I was done
with that. It wasn't just one thing, it was a
number of things that led to that. I just didn't
see my life. I wanted to be proud of who
I was and a bit of a kick up the
(31:23):
ass from Hamish, one of my best mates, and I
speak about him a lot. He's been brilliant for me.
My ex partner, she was brilliant for me in terms
of pushing me into working on myself and therapy, and
I'll be forever grateful for that. So, like I said,
I've had some amazing people that have pushed me in
the right direction. And now I make sure my daily routines,
I'm journaling, I'm practicing that gratitude. I'm seeing my therapist weekly,
(31:47):
if not weekly, fortnightly. I'm routine driven, which is a
big thing for me, and just making sure I'm doing
those things that are going to hold me in good stead.
So yeah, I use it a little bit as fuel
now as opposed to that victim mindset.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
You do speak a lot about the fact that you
developed PTSD off the back of this childhood trauma. What
has that experience been like for you? Do you still
have experiences with PTSD now? Do you still battle with that?
Is it something that you can quote unquote outgrow with
therapy or is it something that you're going to deal
with forever.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I definitely battle with it, not as much now. I
did for a long time. It wasn't until probably my
late twenties that really kicked in. I found when I
left the Navy. And I speak about routine a lot.
I speak about it with my clients. I speak about
consistency and routine. When I left the Navy, I struggled
with identity. You know, I was proud of my career.
I was proud of my job, and then I left
and there was an eighteen month period there where I
(32:40):
was just doing a few jobs. You know, I was
a fitter by trade, so working a few companies, and
it wasn't until I found my passion and my purpose
that you know, I got back into that routine and structure.
So that's that's what I'm getting out in terms of
routine and structure. That's what holds me in good stead
with that. But yeah, I get flashbacks a fair bit.
Speaker 5 (32:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I've struggled with loud noises, so obviously with what went
on back home, and you know that's I'm working in
a gym environment. There's loud noises all the time. So
it's just about being able to better deal with those triggers.
You know, I still have days where I you know,
will snap at someone because I'm triggered. But I'm doing
what i can to try and get better at recognizing
those triggers. And you know, I feel as though I've
(33:18):
got it under control at the moment.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
I'm in a really good place at the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
But I haven't always been that way, and I always
put it back to routine and structure.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Excuse my David, But what does PTSD look like like?
What does it present like? And for you, I guess
like when did it start?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
So I guess I can't put a time on on
when it started. Living in that constant state of you know,
fight or flight, you know, I'll get some flashbacks and
whether that be you know, visuals or just a feeling
I'm feeling confused, feeling really really stressed time. I get
really stressed with time, and I'm not sure why. You know,
if I'm running late for somewhere, I will always get
(33:54):
somewhere half an hour early, or i've got a domestic flight,
sometimes I'll get there two hours early to a very early.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
For this introvia, I was like, wow, creating in.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
My car out front for a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
But yeah, it's just that high stress and so I'll
do everything I can to avoid being stressed, and I
don't know when it all happens.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
Some days.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I've been coaching now for fifteen years, and I love
my job so much, and I love Vertice and I
love my members, and some days I'll just get a
panic attack before I talk in front of people, or
it'll come from nowhere.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
It'll be a wave of anxiety.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
There used to be a lot of dark thoughts, but
I found like I can manage that pretty well with
my fitness, my structure, my routine.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
How do you I mean, you're so open in how
you speak about everything, which is I guess very different
to how we kind of frame men being able to
share their experiences and their emotions and everything else. How
do you find speaking with people around this and the
community that you've built for yourself with other specifically, I
(34:52):
mean with other men, what impacts that had on you
and what impact has it had on them?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
To be able to share this story.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It's tough as a I come from a a culture
where I joined the Navy when I was eighteen, and
then I was always playing football then manly men, so
we don't talk about this kind of stuff. But I
put it back to my close group of friends. We
hold each other accountable. We talk about anything and everything.
My best mate, Hamish's got Crohn's disease, which he battles
with and it's really rattled him and you know, it
(35:20):
sucks to see him go through what he has to
go through. But we're very open and we talk about things.
And I'm very open about my story now because I
know everyone's going through a little bit. It's not everyone's
going through something, but a lot of us do struggle
with you know, anything, and I know.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
How cathartic it is for me to talk about it.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
And when I did start opening up, and it started
with a couple of posts on Instagram and then it
led to you know podcasts and talking you know, at
public speaking at events, and it is the most cathartic
experience getting it out there. And I've had so many
brilliant messages from people that have now started therapy or
started talking to their partner and just that I can
(35:57):
help a little bit, and we can all help a
little bit by sharing us stories.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
It's only a positive thing, so I'm more than happy
to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
It is incredible to see and I hate saying this
but you and hainleish your business part enough. As an example,
you both embody I guess, the traditional sense of masculinity,
which is you're big, you're strong, you're muscly, you work out,
you were in the navy, like you had this routine.
We look at that to be traditional masculinity. But you
(36:23):
both speak so openly and you're so vulnerable about the
stories you know that have affected you. Hame with his
crones as well, like you know, he's got severe crones.
He's in hospital with it, and he's battling his own,
you know, his own issues. But the way that you
guys speak about it, and like you just said, since
you became more open about it, you've realized, hang on,
there are a lot of men that also want to
talk about this, but they haven't been given the green
(36:45):
light to say it's okay. And I think that that
is a really beautiful outcome of you and something probably
you've realized yourself, even when you said a big part
of what helped you, as you know, in your teenage
years with the fact that you had a few really
good friends males that said it's okay to talk and
I'll be here for you, and You're very lucky that
you had that you are. I've seen your little nail there,
(37:05):
You've got a blue nail nail polish on. You're an
ambassador for the Polish Man as somebody that went through
this sort of horrific violence as a child, having your
mum who tried to leave so many times but couldn't.
Now that you can make a difference and you can
put things in place as someone who's lived it, what
do you think would have helped you, guys at that time?
(37:26):
What can we be doing now as a community, in
a society for people that are in your situation now
because there are still so many people, there's more families
than ever experiencing this kind of violence. What would have
helped you at that time?
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Which is wild? This is still happening.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
It's really hard to comprehend and this day and age
that this stuff still still does happen. And I've jumped
on board as an ambassador for Polish Man. We're a
really good initiative, really great initiative in trying to end
domestic violence and really helping women and children that have
been affected by this. So I will put my name
to them for sure. I love being a part of
something that's that I needed when I was younger. I guess,
(38:03):
like you said myself, Hamish, where just gym owners. We're
normal people, but we've been through a lot, and that's
I guess what I needed growing up is to you know,
it goes back to be the person you needed when
you were growing up, you know, and to have just
a normal guy to understand that other people went through
what I was going through. It would have been amazing
(38:25):
for me growing up. So I try and be that
for others and just anyone in the gym especially, we
try and create a safe space for everyone when they're
coming in. I think that's our point of difference is
breaking down that barrier of just being a gym. We
want to create a community where, you know, like we
had you said before, we had chats in the sauna
and getting people to talk and be vulnerable in a
space that is not typically that you know, it used
(38:46):
to be a bit of a march o place to
the gym, but we don't want it to be at
or we want that to be the best hour of
the day where people can you know, be themselves and
be around like minded people and you know, have a
bit of fun and let go of whatever they're holding
on to.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
In terms of like tangible change, do you think for
your situation it would have helped you more to have
a safe place that your family could have been able
to go to, or structural change within the law system,
like the police coming down harder. What are the things
that we could be changing in society?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well, I was lucky enough that we did have some
safe places in terms of grandparents or godparents, the law
back then, and like I said, I had a lot
of disdain for authority because they didn't put a stop
to it. But yeah, there needs to be something in
place in terms of protection, and I'm not sure what
that is.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
I'm not in that landscape.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
But four years is alive.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Exactly, and that's what we need to get better at
at understanding why it was just four years and not
let that happen again, because it's shocking. And I think
what I can do is just raise awareness. And that's
what we all can do, is raise awareness. It's horrible
that people are still going through it.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Rawlson, thank you so much for coming on sharing a
story today. You speak so well and so beautifully about it,
and you can tell it. You have gone through lot,
but you've done so much work on yourself and it's
incredible that you are reliving your trauma every single day
to help other people. That's what we're about here and
we can't thank you enough for coming on today.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Thank you for having me. Guys, it's been great to
have a chat. It'll stem from that chat in the sauna, but.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Sorry, things happen. I really have a way of dona.
Speaker 5 (40:20):
An uncomfortable place the sauna. It all comes out.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
But yeah, thanks so much for having me, and I'm
more than happy to share my story if it helps
one person. It is tough but reliving those moments, but yeah,
if it can help one or can help one hundred,
you know it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
So thank you again.
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