April 3, 2025 • 42 mins
When was the last time a friend asked you how you’d been and why do I think that a part of your response was that you’re feeling a bit fatigued, overwhelmed or exhausted? Surely it’s not just us!
The way our lives are constructed these days and the life stage most of us are at leans into chaos. Today we are speaking with one of the world's leading experts on how to reduce stress, improve our energy levels and feel a lot better in really simple and free ways!
Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is a leading figure in lifestyle medicine and a trusted voice in health and wellness. With over two decades of experience as a practicing medical doctor, he has a particularly simple approach to help us all make small changes in our lives to improve our health and wellbeing. He has written 6 books,hosted TV shows for over a decade and he hosts one of the most popular podcasts in the world "Feel Better, Live More."
We speak about:
- Our victim mindset
- How women disproportionately take on stress
- Can we rely on willpower?
- Emotional eating
- Guilt and relaxation
- What areas of health are different for men and women
- The menstrual cycle; how it affects hormones and stress
- Do women need more sleep than men?
Links for Dr Rangan Chatterjee's website, podcast and Aus tour
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut. I'm
Brittany and I'm Keisha, and today we're going to talk
about something that affects every single woman I know, every
(00:20):
single person I know. But today we are really going
to hone in on women stress. Think about the last
time you spoke to a friend. When did you run
into somebody and say, hey, how are you going? And
they answered with I am great. I've been having so
much fun lately. I'm super relaxed. I'm loving my life.
It's not often that you hear that response. The most
(00:41):
common response is overwhelmed, stress, flat out like a lizard, drinking,
can't sleep, running around, chasing my tail, running around after
the kids. Anxiety is high, haven't had a day off
in weeks. I feel like that is the most common response.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I do too, and I just feel like, even within myself,
I just have this constant feeling of not being able
to quite catch my tail, like not being able to
quite catch up. You know, we joke a lot about
the whole Oh, this week's been really stressful, but don't worry.
Next week will be better. But then we just keep
on saying that time after time after.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Time, next week's worth exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And stress is something that I think we are all
all experiencing to such a large extent, but none of
us really have particularly easy and simple ways to break
that stress down and to reduce it in our lives.
And that's why today's guest is the wonderful doctor Rungan
Chatategy Now. He is a practicing medical doctor. He's got
over two decades worth of experience. He is also a writer.
(01:36):
He's written over six books, he hosted TV shows for
over a decade, and he has one of the most
popular podcasts in the world in the health and wellness category.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It is called Feel Better, Live More.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And I think we all underestimate just how much stress
affects our lives and affects our body mentally, spiritually, physiologically,
the whole kitten kaboodle. And the best thing about doctor
Chattagy is he really breaks it down to make it simple.
It's not complex. He wants to make it palatable because
he genuinely cares about changing people's lives. So, from your
(02:08):
twenty three years practicing medicine, what do you think is
some of the most common issues women are facing I
know from the outside, from people in my life and
myself included, I feel like burnout and overwhelm are the
things that seem to be consuming everyone's lives.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I would agree. I think stress, fatigue, burnout, overwhelmed
seems to be the symptom of the day, right. I
mean you're asking for women. I think a lot of
men feel that as well, but specifically with women, I
would say absolutely, that is a huge issue. I think
it's getting worse, and I think we're looking at it
(02:43):
the wrong way. Actually, one thing I've realized over my
you know, twenty three years of practice now is that
stress doesn't just come from the outside we think it does.
We think stress is only to do with what we
have going on. I've got to do this, I've got
to do that, I've got to pick this person. We've
got to do that. My boss has asked me to
(03:04):
do this. That is true, those things are all stresses.
At the same time, I would say for most of us,
the majority of stress we experience is generated by ourselves.
What do I mean by that? This was probably the
key learning in my life a few years ago, which
(03:25):
is probably the number one reason why I generally feel calm, happy, content,
generally in control of life, even though I have a
busy life, because I realized that we have the power
with our minds to frame every situation. We can take
what I call a victim mindset to life, and I
say that with compassion, I honestly do. I'm not I'm
(03:46):
not blaming anyone for that. Or we can say what
I call the architect mindset to life, where we understand
that we get to frame every single situation. And so
you know, it's something that until you get it, it
seems like what you talking abouts, right, But I'll tell
you how I got this. One of the most powerful
conversations I've ever had on my own podcast, which has
been running for seven and a half years now, is
(04:09):
with a ninety three year old lady called Edith Eager. Now.
When I spoke to her, she was ninety three years old,
and she was telling me about her childhood. Now, when
she was sixteen years old, she got taken to Auschwitz
concentration camp with her sister, and both her parents were
murdered within two hours of getting there. Right, She's a
(04:30):
sixteen year old, young, young lady and two hours after
her parents have been murdered. She's asked to dance and
perform for the senior prison guards. And do you know
what she said to me? She said wrong, And listen,
I never forgot the last thing my mother said to me.
My mom said to me, Edith, never ever forget. Nobody
(04:51):
can take from you the contents that you put inside
your own mind. So she then tells me, when I
was dancing in Auschwitz, I wasn't actually dancing in Auschwitz.
In my mind. I was in Budapest opera house. There
was a full orchestra playing, there was a full house,
there was beautiful music, it was wonderful. And I'm thinking,
(05:11):
your parents have been murdered, you're you're literally in a
death camp, and you're reframing this in your mind. And
there's many things she told me, But the final word
she said to me, which relates to your question, is
she said this. She said Wrongan, I have lived in Auschwitz,
and I can tell you the greatest prison you will
ever live inside is the prison that you create inside
(05:34):
your own mind.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And I'll tell you, Brittany Ikish that Penny dropped for
me that day. I thought, that's what we all do.
We go around the world, and the car driver cuts
us up and we get stressed and angry, and we
feel that it was the car driver that made us
stressed and angry, but it isn't. Actually it's our response
(05:56):
to the car driver that's making us angry.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I relate to that so much, and I've spoken about
this and we wrote about it in our book. But
I spent a month with this Buddhist monk and the
one thing, the big takeaway that I took from his
learnings was that your whole life and quality of life
depends on your reaction to the given situation. It's not
the situation, because that's happened regardless. You can't change it.
But you can change the way you think about it.
(06:21):
You can change the way you deal with it, and
you can change the way you move on. And I
still try to put that into practice now. I even
had road rage this morning on the way here, and
then I had to stop myself for a second and think,
why am I so angry? I can't change what is
happening right now.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, that's such a beautiful example, and there's so many
things there. First of all, even if we know this stuff,
it doesn't mean we won't still do it right. So,
as you said, you had road rage this morning, but
you're at least aware now that actually you know what
I was generating that stress like. It wasn't the driver,
it was actually me. I didn't need to That's the
(06:57):
key learning for people, because why I'm so passionate about
this idea is, yes, it relates to your contentment and
your happiness, but it also relates to your health. Right,
And this is the big thing I try to outline
in my in my latest but may change at last.
So I tried to say, guys, the reason why we're
struggling to make changes that actually last in the long term,
(07:18):
and we keep trying to think, why can't I give
up sugar, Why can't I do this, why can't I
do that? Is I think we forget about internal stress.
So let's use the car driver as an example. Right,
so we all know that feeling when we're driving our
car when someone cuts us up, and that we might
start shouting or going, you know, stupid drivers, shouldn't have
(07:39):
a license whatever, you know, whatever story, whatever, our version
of that is. What we do in that moment is
we're creating internal emotional stress. That internal emotional stress is
not neutral. You will have to neutralize it in some
way or another. And how do most of us try
and neutralize it? Sugar kathee, alcohol, two three hours, sort
(08:02):
of doom, scrolling on Instagram, whatever it might be. Those
things are a response to the stress that we created
by the way we interacted with that neutral situation. And
once we learn to go wait a minute, maybe I
can train myself to not go mad every time a
driver comes into my lane because I used to be
that guy and I'm not anymore. Right, I've become aware,
(08:25):
first of all, and little by little, by practice, or
I couldn't do it, and that night I was like, ah, wrong,
And you know what, you did it again today, didn't
you next time? You don't need to reract like that,
just like if you're going from the sofa to a
five K. We understand that you can train your body physically,
but you can also train your mindset. And so, going
(08:45):
back to your original question, loads of women are struggling
with stress, overwhelm, fatigue. I'm not at all saying that
aren't external stresses on women. That there absolutely are, but
what I'm also trying to say is that actually a
lot of the stress in our lives is by the
way we look at the situation, and if we learn
(09:06):
to look at situations differently, often we won't feel as stressed. Doctor.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Strategy is something that I've heard you speak about before
that is kind of related to this whole mindset shift
around food in particular, Like you just mentioned, a lot
of us seem to struggle with the whole sugar craving,
the whole like it gets to a certain part of
the evening and we scurry away into the kitchen and
we'll find whatever we can in the pantry or in
the freezer or in the fridge because we're just trying
(09:33):
to kind of feel something that we describe as a
sugar craving. What's your take on emotional eating and why
is it that, especially when we're fatigued, we're burnt out,
and we're stressed, so many of us are kind of
turning to this this little buzz that we're trying to
get over night time before we go to bed.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, it's a great question, and I think again, this
is the big missing piece when we talk to people
about food or improving the way that they eat. People
are eating not just for physical hunger. They're eating for
emotional hunger as well. Right, and if you're eating for
emotional hunger, you don't need another diet. But telling you
about the principles of healthy eating, right, you already kind
(10:12):
of know that you need to understand what are these
internal triggers. One of the exercises that I love and
I've been doing with my patients for years is called
the three f's or the freedom exercise. Okay, So the
three fs are feel, feed and fine. Okay, So next
(10:32):
time someone is on their sofa at nine pm in
the evening and even though they had a full meal
at eight o'clock, they feel like some ice s cream.
I'm not saying that's ever happened to you, you guys.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It was literally me last night. I was just thinking,
this is me last.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Night, just in case it supplies to anyone. Okay, the
three F X sise can be really, really powerful. Okay,
So you're sitting on the sofa, You've got a urge
to have ice cream. Okay. The first step, so I say,
have a little pause before you go and get the
ice scream out of the freezer. Just ask yourself what
am I actually feeling? That's the first F Okay, is
this physical hunger. No, I kind of eate an hour ago.
(11:10):
Is this emotional hunger? Am I tired? Am I stressed?
Have I just had a row with my partner, you know,
as the children's bedtime gone on too long? Whatever, it
might be one of my really feeling. Then go get
the ice scream and have it if you want to. Okay.
The next time it happens, you go through the first
self again, what am I feeling? And then you go
to the second F How does food feed the feeling?
(11:34):
So the second F is feed So you've identified the
feeling as stressed, and then you go, oh, well, when
I have my ice scream, in the short term, at
least I feel less stressed. Ah, okay, so that's why
I'm eating. I'm like, I'm feeling stressed and ice cream
makes me feel better. Okay, great. The next time it happens,
you then go to the third F. So you again
(11:54):
go through the process, what am I feeling, I'm feeling stressed?
How does food feed the feeling? Oh, the ice cream
makes me feel less stressed. The third F is find
Now that I know the feeling, Now that I know
how food feeds the feeling, can I find an alternative
behavior to feed that feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What you're going to say, can you find Can I
find the food? Can I find the treats going to satisfy?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
No? Well you could you could. You could apply it
like that, or you could go, Okay, so I feel stressed,
you normally go to ice cream? What else can I
do to manage that stress? Okay, let's say you like
yoga for example, Right, you could put on YouTube and go, actually,
I'm going to do five minutes of yoga. Right, you
could identify that you know what I'm not at any
(12:43):
time to myself today, Right, I've just been on zoom
calls and so ice cream was a way of just
twreating myself. Okay, how could you treat yourself in a
different way? Ah, maybe I'll run myself a bath and
nourish myself. And it'slightly different way. If it's loneliness that's
causing you to eat, as it is for many people,
or they feel a bit isolated or lonely instead of
(13:03):
going to the ice scream, what else could you do? Well,
if you live with someone like your part or a flatmate,
you could go and talk to them. If you don't,
you could pick up your phone. You could phone a friend,
you could phone one of your parents if they're still alive,
or whatever it might be. And I know it sounds
super simple, but I have used these three s with
(13:23):
patients four years and it can often be life changing
because you know, your question was why do we do this? Right?
A lot of the time we're not conscious of why
we're doing this. We get the urge and before we
know it, the spoons in our mouth right with ice
scream in it. And all this exercise does. It just
starts to give you a little bit of a gap
(13:43):
between the stimulus, which is I want to eat something,
and your response, which is the ice scream. And the
more you just create a little gap there, the more
you start to understand yourself. And once you understand why
you're going to that behavior, right, you've automatically changed your
relationship with that behavior. Even if you go to it
(14:04):
in the future, you'll know, you know, I'm managing stress
here by eating this ice scream, and it means you're
For most people, they're less likely to do it once
they're tuned in to why they're actually engaging in that behavior.
So again, it's a simple exercise that you can apply
to food. You can also apply to alcohol or three
(14:25):
hours scrolling TikTok or Instagram. You can. It's a very
simple you know, will it work for serious addictions, No,
probably not. But at the same time, for many of us,
when we've got these behaviors that we're really trying to
cut back on, it can be a very powerful exercise.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
How much do you think willpower comes into plane? And
having said that, do you think will power is something
that you can learned? I even say this last night
yesterday you mentioned if you're really stressed you want to eat. Yesterday,
I was really stressed. I'd been crying in the day,
I'd had a whole lot of things. Got tonight time
and I bought twenty two East Riggs big ones and
I started to eat them because I was like, I
(15:02):
want my hit. Started to eat them, couldn't stop, and
then there was a complete disconnect with my brain and
my body. My brain was literally saying stop eating them,
like stop it now, put what is in your hand down.
And then I couldn't do it. And then I said
to myself, at least too slower, and I could not.
That's why I said, I was like, enjoy the egg.
(15:22):
That is in your mouth, and I could not. I
could not. My mind was being like slower down, enjoy
the moment. And then I just was like a guzzleguts
and I thought, what is happening there? Why is this
huge disconnect happening between my brain and my body?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Were you stressed at the time? Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh yeah through the roof? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah? And you know, stress causes a disconnection, right, because
when you are stressed, it literally changes the way you
experience the world. Right, So when you're stressed, your physiology
completely changes. Right, You're not expansive, you're not compassionate and
empathetic looking at the other perspective, your whole focus comes in.
(16:01):
When you're stressed, you're looking for problems. You feel a
bit tense, anxious, hypervigilant. That's natural because stress ultimately is
your body saying that it thinks that it's in danger. Right.
And that's the problem these days is that our stress
response has been activated not by wild predators. It's been
activated by the state of our daily lives, by our
(16:21):
email inboxes, by our multiple social media channels we're trying
to keep up to date with or whatever it might be, right,
and our body responds in a different way. But that's
the key point, Brittany. You have to understand that actually
stress literally changes your physiology. So you know you're saying
there's a disconnect there. Yeah, there is a disconnect there.
That's literally what is going on. Right, So instead of
(16:43):
beating yourself up about that, it's like recognizing, oh wow, okay,
when I get really stressed. You know, let's say yesterday
happens again in two weeks, right, is there anything you
can learn from yesterday what you didn't do, for example,
that you could have done that could help you have
less stress if a similar day happens in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean absolutely. Firstly, I wouldn't buy the East
Dregs on special. Secondly I would probably do pilates.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah. But also, did you take a break in the day, right?
Were you just powering through and the stress just accumulated?
Because that's another thing. Often when we're busy and with stressed,
we don't take breaks, and all those breaks, even a
five minute walk can help reduce stress. Elves reduce strevel,
so you're less likely to get to your threshold. And
at your threshold is when you buy the twenty two
(17:32):
Easter eggs. Right, you don't buy it when you're just
a little bit stressed. You buy it when you're right
at your threshold. So again, I don't believe in the
concepts of wasted time anymore. Right in the sense that
we spend time that has a consequence, and if we
can learn from how we spent our time, it wasn't
a waste. So your stressful day yesterday could be a
very powerful teaching moment for you. Could be like, oh wow,
(17:55):
so I've still got that tendency when I'm really stressed
to go and buy twenty two easter eggs. How I
not have that much stress in my life? If the
same events happen next time? Could I take a walking break?
Could I do a bit of meditation halfway on what
I'm commuting home instead of listening to the news. I'm
not saying you did that, but could I put on
some relaxing music for five minutes or put on a
(18:18):
meditation app and just reset. It's not as hard as
we think it is once we're aware of what's actually
driving our behaviors.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
On this concept of relaxation, I think a lot of us,
I mean, particularly for women in our age categories they've
got a lot on their plates, a lot of them
will be raising young children, a lot of them will
still have full time jobs, and even for us who
don't have kids, like I feel as though my day
is just.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Go go, go, go, go, go, go go go.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I get to the very end of the day, I
shut the laptop and I try to get to sleep.
And the concept of relaxation is one that we've had
many conversations about things like toxic productivity and how we
are not meant to be trying to fit every single minute,
every hour of our day to be the most productive
that we can. And relaxation is something that I feel
(19:06):
quite uncomfortable with. Guilty, Yeah, I think it is guilt,
And there's definitely a discomfort when I'm taking time, you know,
time that I would say would be time out to
try and put myself into a relaxed state. And it
almost creates like a bit of a cycle for me
where I'm like, Okay, I know that relaxation is necessary
(19:26):
so that I can get good sleep and so I
can feel good and maybe say that I can be
good tomorrow. But then when I'm actually trying to do
the things that relax me, I feel guilty about the
fact I'm not using the time more efficiently. Is this
something that you see a lot like in your clinical practice?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Oh? Yeah, especially with women. I've seen this for years.
In fact, in my first book, I wrote about this,
and I actually said in that book that one thing
I've heard from female patients over the years, time and
time again is when I talk some about me time
and some time each day for it, you know, one
of the things I would I would often say some is,
(20:01):
you know, can you find ten minutes a day where
you do something unashamedly for you, not for your partner,
not for your kids, something that just you want to do.
And often if I was able to persuade them and
inspire them to go, now, this is really important, give
it a try, they would come back and say, you
know what, Dot, you gave me permission to relax. And
(20:22):
it was a really interesting phrase I heard because I
thought I never thought my job as a doctor was
to give anyone a permission to do anything. But I
do find that it's particularly with women. They would often
describe to me exactly what you just said. I've seen
definitely with mums loads of times, and I appreciate both
of you said that, you know, you don't have kids,
(20:42):
so that's not necessarily the reason why. But what I'll
often say to them is, look, if you're not if
you're feeling guilty about this, what I often encourage me to
do is, what is it you would love to do?
Like absolutely love not you know, I want, I need
to do this because it's going to help me relax,
need to do my meditation, all right, forget all that
for a minute. What would you love to do that
(21:04):
sounds like fun? Because we know from the research that
regularly doing things that you love makes you more resilient
to stress, and at the same time, being chronically stressed
makes it harder for you to experience pleasure from those
things that you used to love. And so, like, I
remember this one patient. She was a fourth I think
she was forty four years old, and she was a mother,
(21:27):
and she had Crohn's disease, inflammacy bow disease, which is
on the rise and fortunate there's many reasons for that.
But I said to her, look, I really want you
to take fifteen minutes each day for yourself, want you
to do something that you love. And literally, for her
it was getting into salsid dancing. Right, She'd always wanted
to do that, but she never thought she could justify
(21:50):
the time she was doing some for her husband, doing
some for her children, doing stuff for her community. She
never felt yep, actually I'm worth it. It's okay to
have fifteen minutes a day for me. And just doing
that for four weeks, her symptoms, her symptoms and croneses
went down by over fifty percent. Wow. And you know,
(22:13):
didn't cure it, just to be clear, but it was
much more manageable for her because her stress levels went down.
And so you know, and I think, what better prescription
to get from your doctor than do something that you love. Right.
This could be dancing, It could be playing your guitar
if you're into playing guitar. It could be singing in
your kitchen, dancing in your kitchen. It could be watching
(22:34):
your favorite comedian on YouTube for ten minutes and laughing.
But I often find that's a simple and easier way
to get into relaxation sometimes, and it can be very effective.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Doctor Chatji, your book, The Four Pillar Plan How to Relax, eat,
move and Sleep your way to a longer, healthier life.
What a great name for a book, because everybody wants that.
Let's talk about the four pillars, and how do you
decide that these were going to be the specific special fourth.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Well, so, the four pillars of health that we have
the most control over and have the most impact on
our health are food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. And what
I say in that book, and I still maintain to
this day, is that you don't need perfection in any
one of the four pillars, but you need balance amongst
(23:25):
all four. Okay, you need to think about those four.
And I think a really helpful piece of advice for
anyone listening to this right now is to ask yourself
in which of these four pillars do I need the
most help? Most of us intuitively know that if you ask,
you know, food, movement, sleep, and relaxation, which one is
our kind of weak area?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
What happens if you have two, Well.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Let's come to that. If you've identified that, actually, this
one's really bad, right, I would say you're much better
off making one change in that week, Carrier, rather than
trying to strengthen your favorite area, and you're your strong
area a bit more so, what I would often see
is people, let's say, people who are really interested in
nutrition their diets already, let's say eighty five percent goods.
(24:10):
They're obsessed with taking the diet from eighty five percent
good to ninety or ninety five percent good, but neglecting
the fact that they're only sleeping five hours a night.
And I'm like, you know what, keep your diet where
it is, a little bit of sugary stuff at the weekends. Fine,
don't stress about that. I would much rather you focus
on bringing that five hours a sleep up to five
(24:31):
and a half hours, or to six hours if you can. Yeah, sure,
seven hours if you can. But you know, just a
little bit of improvement. I found over the years that
it's much more effective to strengthen your weakest pillar. Right,
So I think it's a very simple thing for people
to ask themselves, which pillar do I need the most working?
And pick one thing in that area where you can
(24:52):
start to make it better. In response to your question,
if you find there's two areas well, the first thing
I'd say is which one is weaker? If you know?
If you don't know, I would say, yeah, put your
attention on those two, right, don't worry about the other
two pillars. Just go these two. Read a lot of
attension at the moment, I don't know. Let's say it
was stress and sleep for example. You know, you say, Okay,
(25:14):
what's one thing I can do each day to help
me destress and what's one thing I can do that's
going to help me sleep better? And just focus on
those things. I think that where we really get into
trouble is where we try and make loads of changes
in all of these four pillars and we end up
doing nothing.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Britt what do you reckon you'd struggle with the most.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Sleep's definitely mine, one hundred percent. And that's actually something
that I wanted to chat to you about. Obviously, men
and women are wired very differently. How do these pillars
or sorry, which category or which pillar itself affects women
and men differently?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, stress, okay,
is probably one of the big ones where you see
a I think it's the thing that affects so many
of us these days. You know, the World Health organizers
say that stress is the health epidemic of the twenty
first century. I would say the way that we can
often manage stress and the way we look at stress
(26:10):
can be quite different. I think women absorb a lot
of the stresses off the world around them into their bodies.
I think, you know, it really relates to what you
said before about this guilt. I think women very much
are wired to want to, you know, look after the
world around them, you know, nurture, and I think the
way modern society has changed, where there is so many
(26:33):
things to do and so many pressures, I think it
probably adversity affects women more than men. And we know
that women, for example, get higher rates of autoimmune disease
than men, and stresses a big part of that. Right.
In fact, Gable matse dotor Gable maase trauma expert. He
calls women, I think modern society stress absorbers, right, which
(26:56):
is really interesting. He says, there's all the stress in
the modern world, and women seem to be I'm not
saying men have no stress, to be clear, but I
do think women are quite unique with how they take
that stress on and how much it affects their bodies.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
We internalize it more, I think, so.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, very much so, and often don't vocalize it. Whereas
you know, you can't say men and women were all
different within that, but broadly speaking, I think men can
be better at compartmentalizing things and just moving on. Actually,
I'll leave that and it's slot there, and I can
move on to a different part of my life and
not think about that. Whereas I I certainly my experience
(27:31):
with seeing patients over the years is that women don't
do that in the same way. I think potentially people
can learn to do that, but I don't. I think
men more naturally tend to do that. I always think
food we can think about differences between men and women,
And again these are just broad generalizations. Broadly speaking, a
lot more men tend to thrive on fasting plans than women. Right,
(27:55):
that doesn't mean women can't fast. Just to be clear,
I've got many female that thee is who thrive on
a certain form of fasting.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
What do you mean when you say thrive, Do you
mean that they have the results thereafter or that they
actually feel bitter and have physical health?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Both? Really both? Because I think there is this narrative
now that fasting is maybe okay for men, but it
isn't something women should do. I agree, broadly speaking, that
men and women deal with this stuff differently. I think
fasting can be a stressor on the body, right, it
is a stress on the body. So if you're already
(28:31):
experiencing lots of stress, and we've just mentioned how women
may be internalized stress in a different way to men,
fasting can be an additional stress and tip them over.
I have seen that as well. But I do think, broadly,
speaking to that sort of general question, what do men
and women respond differently to? I think the way they
(28:52):
deal with stress, I think can be quite different, but
also the way that they deal with fasting can be
very different as well. A lot of this cultural than
the sense that you know, these things are quite punchy
areas with people to talk about, right, But there is
a lot of pressure on women these days, I think,
and I'm saying this as a man, this is what
I've observed with patients, what I've observed with my wife
and her friends. Let's compare to I don't know, fifty
(29:16):
years ago, right. Just to be clear, I'm not saying
we should be going back to the way things worth
fifty years ago, right, I'm just just to be super clear.
Life fifty years ago, for all the potential negatives, in
some ways, it was simpler, right. People knew what their
role was. Whether we agree with those roles or not.
(29:39):
Those roles were quite well defined in many cultures, and
I think those well defined roles led to a simplicity
and potentially lower stress. Whereas I think one of the risks,
or one of the unintended consequences of all the increased
opportunity now that women are getting compared to fifty years
(29:59):
gon not even saying it's as good as it should be,
I'm just saying compared to fifty years ago, what I
find is that, yeah, women are working now, They're doing
great jobs, they're starting amazing businesses. Yet if and when
they choose to have children, they still feel that maternal
instinct of being the care of being the nurture, being
the one who wants to look after the kids. So
(30:20):
in fifty years ago, perhaps broadly speaking, their focus could
just be on that, whereas now the focus is I'm
still trying to run my business, I'm still trying to
crush it on Instagram, and I'm also trying to look
after the kids. That is a lot to contend with, right,
And I don't think this has been planned. I'm saying
this is an unintended consequence, but I think it's something
(30:42):
we need to wrestle with as a society. I think
we need to wrestle with this idea is like, are
we putting too much on women's plates? How can we
change that? But I also to defend men here, and
I'm a man saying this, But I also do believe
that men are also struggling with new gender roles, right,
Men are also struggling with well, what is my role now?
(31:05):
Like I remember, my dad was never ever at a
school play, a school performance. Like dad worked, right, Dad's
job was to earn the money to feed us all.
Whereas I remember when my kids were young, I had
a busy job, but I was I still felt huge
pressure and I wanted to be at my children's performances,
you know, I wanted to be at school at two
(31:26):
pm to watch them read out a recital, lever it
might be. And again, I'm not complaining, right, I'm not
complaining at all. But I do think it's interesting and
I don't think I think we need to have honest
conversations about how our roles have changed. And it's okay
to say actually were struggling with this. And I think
saying that we struggle with this doesn't mean we wanted
(31:47):
to go back and it doesn't mean we're being sexist.
It just means, hey, this is a real problem. Let's
come together and try and figure out how we might
move forward with this. Did that all make sense?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I also think what plays in here is the way
we now live, right is quite alien to how we
used to live. So the nuclear family, for example, is
a modern invention. Right for most of human evolution, we
did not bring up kids by ourselves, you know, in
nuclear families. It was in tribes, it was in communities.
(32:20):
And so this has a real consequence. Right now, everything
has plus points and negative points pretty much everything in life.
There's an upside and a downside. Okay, So one of
the upsides of many people will say now is we
have independence, we can move away, get a really good job,
go to the city, have all this opportunity that we
(32:40):
didn't have in the past. Great, that's an upside. Downside
is we've often moved away from our parents, our siblings,
our community, the people who knew us, the people who
would support us. So the consequence of nuclear families is
so many couples, their relationships are under huge stress after
they have kids. You know, I've seen it with a
(33:02):
lot of my friends I've seen it with countless patients.
And it's not that that people don't love each other,
it's just it's too much for two And this is
on the assumption that there's two parents living together, which
of course much of the time isn't the case. But
if two parents are working and then they have children
who look after it and they have no support nearby,
(33:25):
that is full on. You have no time to nourish
your relationship, you know, So you know, the partners become dissent,
they start niggling with each other. That in and off
itself creates stress, right, And so I think the only
way we get to a solution is by honestly identifying
what is the root of this problem and understanding that
I don't think we were designed to do all this
(33:47):
by ourselves. That I think is one of the root
causes of why there's so much sort of stress going
on and why we're struggling with these new roles.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
On this topic of stress.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I think for me, the first thing that is affected
when I feel stressed is that I'm not able to
get as good quality sleep, and I think that that
is something that probably everybody experiences.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But another thing that I think.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Is specific to women, is that these hormonal fluctuations that
we go through, whether that be you know, throughout a
time of life or even a time.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Of the month.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I mean, I guess I'm sample study of one, but
I've definitely experienced different sleep patterns and the quality of
sleep that I'm able to get. I feel like it
changes over the course of like my menstrual cycle and throughout.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Different periods of my life. What are those changes, how.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Are they affecting you know, firstly, our stress levels, and
how are they affecting our ability to get good quality sleep?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
When you mentioned the cycle there, the mental cycle, and
how in different stages of the cycle you feel different
levels of stress and different amounts of sleep. That is normal, Okay,
that's completely normal. You know, your body is hormonally different
throughout the mental cycle. That's one of the key differences
between women and men are preate on these twenty four
hour cycles. Women operate on, you know, traditionally this more
(35:04):
twenty eight day cycle. Of course, there's a bit of
variation there whether it's twenty eight days or twenty six
or thirty thirty one, but you know, broadly speaking, that's
same massive difference between men and women. And I actually
remember I spoke to Dr Mindy Pelts on my podcast
about maybe three years ago. She was just breaking down
the different stages of a female cycle and how a
(35:26):
woman might want to eat differently at various times. She
was you know, I remember very clearly she's saying, you know,
the week before the periods, she was saying, actually, you know,
most women do crave carbs, and it's okay to actually
indulge and have those carbs in that week, but you know,
at the start of the cycle you may not as much.
So if you do want to, you know, change your
(35:47):
diet and go lower carb for example, then that's the
time to do it. But we also discussed in that conversation,
let's say in a heterosexual couple, for example, let's say
a man and a woman, right that benefits have actually
been quite open about what stage on someone's cycle someone is,
so I think for many years we thought, well, it's
you know, it's not the man's business, you know what's
(36:09):
going on with a woman's mental cycle. But we were
just hypothesizing, well, might it create more harmony in relationships
if the other partner, whether it was a man or woman. Frankly,
doesn't really matter that knew that. Actually, yeah, at this point,
you know, I'm not sleeping as well, I'm a bit
(36:29):
more moody. I'm craving carbs. Actually, then you know at
those points, actually you could if you let's say, if
that was my wife, for example, and I knew, okay,
this is the week leading at her period and she's
struggling with this sleep. With that knowledge, I can be
more patient. I can you know, try to not take
(36:49):
things personally and go, oh, this is hormonal. She's struggling
with this. And I think increasing that communication over these things,
I actually think while some people may say it's in
a fridgement of privacy and it's no one else's business. Fine,
I'm not here to tell, you know, what everyone should
or shouldn't do. I just think it's quite a nice
thing to think about. Actually, might that be helpful? And
(37:12):
certainly since that conversation, my wife and I do communicate
about this kind of stuff, and I would say it's
really really helps because I have a much better understanding
of where she is in her cycle and how that
also affects her and therefore affects our relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Do women need more sleep than men?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
As a rough generalization. I was saying my experience, I
would say, yes, right, that seems to be the case.
But I can't say it's the case for everyone, right,
you just can't. We're all the individual, we're all different.
So I can't say that every woman needs more set
than every man. But as a broad principle, I do
think women tend to thrive on a little bit more
(37:52):
seat than men. Certainly, again, this is again in any
course one, but in my own marriage, I would say
my wife absolutely needs more sleep than me, good hour
and night, more seat than me, and it's very noticeable
if she's not guessing that. And I don't mean that
in a derogatory way, just to be really clear, I
just I'm just genuinely it's sort of just I'm just
defending my wife that I'm not saying anything nastam. It's
(38:14):
just and I think we would both agree she does
seem more seat to me, and that's certainly what's seemed
with my patients.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
There was an interview that you did with doctor gable Matte,
and for me, it was so powerful and it was
something that really changed the way I think. And it
was sort of around you know, he's in his late sixties,
and it was around if you had to go back
and do something differently in your life, what would you do?
And it was really powerful when I watched it, and
he talked a lot about he would do everything differently,
(38:42):
and he would spend more time sitting in joy and
things that you know, his family and the things that
mattered to him, because he just thought he had to.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Work, work, work.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
For me, I really took a lot away from that conversation,
and I've been thinking about it a lot. Out of
all the conversations you've had over the years and all
the incredible peace you've had the chance to speak to,
is there something or someone or a piece of advice
that has really stuck with you and changed the course
of the way that you think and act.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, he wishes he'd played more. Right. For all his success,
for all his expertise, for all the fact that he's
invited all over the world to speak and he's sold
a squillion books, he again has regrets. He wishes to
live life differently. He wishes he'd played more And think
it goes back to what I said earlier on about
passion right. Doing things that you love that you enjoy
(39:32):
is really good for you. It helps you become more
resilient to stress as well. So I think too much
of the health conversation these days is about deprivation and restriction. Right,
we don't talk enough about joy. Doing things that you
love is good for you. Right, It's really good for you.
And actually it's something I wish we would talk about
(39:52):
a lot more. And actually, when I come on tour
to Australia this summer, I will absolutely be talking about
this and the benefits of more joy and passion in
your life. So I've had four conversations with Gabor on
my podcast over seven years, and they've all touched me
in different ways. But if you say, what was the conversation,
what was the piece of advice that has had the
(40:13):
most impact, It's what I started the show with, right,
It's my conversation with Edith Eager that I re released
recently for an episode five hundred special. That conversation changed me.
It fundamentally changed who I was, because not only did
she say those magical words you know wrong. And I've
lived in Auschwitz and I could tell you the greatest
prison you will ever live inside is the prison that
(40:36):
you create inside your own minds. But it literally you know,
I remember coming out of that conversation and I said
to my videographer, I'm not the same person anymore. Like
I am not the same person anymore. That the way
I view myself and the world has fundamentally changed. Because
for me, understanding that in a death camp she could
(40:59):
reframe her experiences, it just really powerfully taught me that,
oh wrong, good. You know what, even on your worst day,
you're not in a death camp, right, So if she
can reframe her experiences in Auschwitz, you can reframe them
in your own life. And that single realization has changed
(41:19):
the way that I experienced life. It's changed the way
I experience stress. And if I'm ever struggling, I go,
what's the other perspective here? How can I take a
different perspective on this situation, which would mean it would
not be as stressful. So I've had over five hundred conversations,
many of them have left their profound effects on me.
But if you make me choose, it would still be
(41:41):
that conversation with that ninety three year old lady Edith Eager.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
What a beautiful and powerful woman. That's so special. Thank
you so much for joining us. Today.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
We are so grateful to be chatting to you from
the other side of the world. But we might not
have to chat to you from the other side of
the world for very long because you are coming to
visit us in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane in July. Why
we are going to have links to doctor Rungan, Charatejy's
social media podcast and tour in our show notes.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Guys, thank you very very much, really joined my chat
and I cannot wait to be in Australia this summer.
So we're coming for a family holiday and those three
dates and we cannot wait.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Well, if you have some time in Sibby would love
to show you around and if you would like to
have a chat in person. I mean, I don't necessarily
want to make you worth more on your family.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Holiday, but if you've got the time.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
We would love to pay right well, listen, let me
check it out and if so, yes, I'll see you
guys as Sydney. I look forward to it.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
We would love that.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Takkay guys. Byeye
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut. I'm
Brittany and I'm Keisha, and today we're going to talk
about something that affects every single woman I know, every
(00:20):
single person I know. But today we are really going
to hone in on women stress. Think about the last
time you spoke to a friend. When did you run
into somebody and say, hey, how are you going? And
they answered with I am great. I've been having so
much fun lately. I'm super relaxed. I'm loving my life.
It's not often that you hear that response. The most
(00:41):
common response is overwhelmed, stress, flat out like a lizard, drinking,
can't sleep, running around, chasing my tail, running around after
the kids. Anxiety is high, haven't had a day off
in weeks. I feel like that is the most common response.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I do too, and I just feel like, even within myself,
I just have this constant feeling of not being able
to quite catch my tail, like not being able to
quite catch up. You know, we joke a lot about
the whole Oh, this week's been really stressful, but don't worry.
Next week will be better. But then we just keep
on saying that time after time after.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Time, next week's worth exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
And stress is something that I think we are all
all experiencing to such a large extent, but none of
us really have particularly easy and simple ways to break
that stress down and to reduce it in our lives.
And that's why today's guest is the wonderful doctor Rungan
Chatategy Now. He is a practicing medical doctor. He's got
over two decades worth of experience. He is also a writer.
(01:36):
He's written over six books, he hosted TV shows for
over a decade, and he has one of the most
popular podcasts in the world in the health and wellness category.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It is called Feel Better, Live More.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And I think we all underestimate just how much stress
affects our lives and affects our body mentally, spiritually, physiologically,
the whole kitten kaboodle. And the best thing about doctor
Chattagy is he really breaks it down to make it simple.
It's not complex. He wants to make it palatable because
he genuinely cares about changing people's lives. So, from your
(02:08):
twenty three years practicing medicine, what do you think is
some of the most common issues women are facing I
know from the outside, from people in my life and
myself included, I feel like burnout and overwhelm are the
things that seem to be consuming everyone's lives.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, I would agree. I think stress, fatigue, burnout, overwhelmed
seems to be the symptom of the day, right. I
mean you're asking for women. I think a lot of
men feel that as well, but specifically with women, I
would say absolutely, that is a huge issue. I think
it's getting worse, and I think we're looking at it
(02:43):
the wrong way. Actually, one thing I've realized over my
you know, twenty three years of practice now is that
stress doesn't just come from the outside we think it does.
We think stress is only to do with what we
have going on. I've got to do this, I've got
to do that, I've got to pick this person. We've
got to do that. My boss has asked me to
(03:04):
do this. That is true, those things are all stresses.
At the same time, I would say for most of us,
the majority of stress we experience is generated by ourselves.
What do I mean by that? This was probably the
key learning in my life a few years ago, which
(03:25):
is probably the number one reason why I generally feel calm, happy, content,
generally in control of life, even though I have a
busy life, because I realized that we have the power
with our minds to frame every situation. We can take
what I call a victim mindset to life, and I
say that with compassion, I honestly do. I'm not I'm
(03:46):
not blaming anyone for that. Or we can say what
I call the architect mindset to life, where we understand
that we get to frame every single situation. And so
you know, it's something that until you get it, it
seems like what you talking abouts, right, But I'll tell
you how I got this. One of the most powerful
conversations I've ever had on my own podcast, which has
been running for seven and a half years now, is
(04:09):
with a ninety three year old lady called Edith Eager. Now.
When I spoke to her, she was ninety three years old,
and she was telling me about her childhood. Now, when
she was sixteen years old, she got taken to Auschwitz
concentration camp with her sister, and both her parents were
murdered within two hours of getting there. Right, She's a
(04:30):
sixteen year old, young, young lady and two hours after
her parents have been murdered. She's asked to dance and
perform for the senior prison guards. And do you know
what she said to me? She said wrong, And listen,
I never forgot the last thing my mother said to me.
My mom said to me, Edith, never ever forget. Nobody
(04:51):
can take from you the contents that you put inside
your own mind. So she then tells me, when I
was dancing in Auschwitz, I wasn't actually dancing in Auschwitz.
In my mind. I was in Budapest opera house. There
was a full orchestra playing, there was a full house,
there was beautiful music, it was wonderful. And I'm thinking,
(05:11):
your parents have been murdered, you're you're literally in a
death camp, and you're reframing this in your mind. And
there's many things she told me, But the final word
she said to me, which relates to your question, is
she said this. She said Wrongan, I have lived in Auschwitz,
and I can tell you the greatest prison you will
ever live inside is the prison that you create inside
(05:34):
your own mind.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
And I'll tell you, Brittany Ikish that Penny dropped for
me that day. I thought, that's what we all do.
We go around the world, and the car driver cuts
us up and we get stressed and angry, and we
feel that it was the car driver that made us
stressed and angry, but it isn't. Actually it's our response
(05:56):
to the car driver that's making us angry.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
I relate to that so much, and I've spoken about
this and we wrote about it in our book. But
I spent a month with this Buddhist monk and the
one thing, the big takeaway that I took from his
learnings was that your whole life and quality of life
depends on your reaction to the given situation. It's not
the situation, because that's happened regardless. You can't change it.
But you can change the way you think about it.
(06:21):
You can change the way you deal with it, and
you can change the way you move on. And I
still try to put that into practice now. I even
had road rage this morning on the way here, and
then I had to stop myself for a second and think,
why am I so angry? I can't change what is
happening right now.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Yeah, that's such a beautiful example, and there's so many
things there. First of all, even if we know this stuff,
it doesn't mean we won't still do it right. So,
as you said, you had road rage this morning, but
you're at least aware now that actually you know what
I was generating that stress like. It wasn't the driver,
it was actually me. I didn't need to That's the
(06:57):
key learning for people, because why I'm so passionate about
this idea is, yes, it relates to your contentment and
your happiness, but it also relates to your health. Right,
And this is the big thing I try to outline
in my in my latest but may change at last.
So I tried to say, guys, the reason why we're
struggling to make changes that actually last in the long term,
(07:18):
and we keep trying to think, why can't I give
up sugar, Why can't I do this, why can't I
do that? Is I think we forget about internal stress.
So let's use the car driver as an example. Right,
so we all know that feeling when we're driving our
car when someone cuts us up, and that we might
start shouting or going, you know, stupid drivers, shouldn't have
(07:39):
a license whatever, you know, whatever story, whatever, our version
of that is. What we do in that moment is
we're creating internal emotional stress. That internal emotional stress is
not neutral. You will have to neutralize it in some
way or another. And how do most of us try
and neutralize it? Sugar kathee, alcohol, two three hours, sort
(08:02):
of doom, scrolling on Instagram, whatever it might be. Those
things are a response to the stress that we created
by the way we interacted with that neutral situation. And
once we learn to go wait a minute, maybe I
can train myself to not go mad every time a
driver comes into my lane because I used to be
that guy and I'm not anymore. Right, I've become aware,
(08:25):
first of all, and little by little, by practice, or
I couldn't do it, and that night I was like, ah, wrong,
And you know what, you did it again today, didn't
you next time? You don't need to reract like that,
just like if you're going from the sofa to a
five K. We understand that you can train your body physically,
but you can also train your mindset. And so, going
(08:45):
back to your original question, loads of women are struggling
with stress, overwhelm, fatigue. I'm not at all saying that
aren't external stresses on women. That there absolutely are, but
what I'm also trying to say is that actually a
lot of the stress in our lives is by the
way we look at the situation, and if we learn
(09:06):
to look at situations differently, often we won't feel as stressed. Doctor.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Strategy is something that I've heard you speak about before
that is kind of related to this whole mindset shift
around food in particular, Like you just mentioned, a lot
of us seem to struggle with the whole sugar craving,
the whole like it gets to a certain part of
the evening and we scurry away into the kitchen and
we'll find whatever we can in the pantry or in
the freezer or in the fridge because we're just trying
(09:33):
to kind of feel something that we describe as a
sugar craving. What's your take on emotional eating and why
is it that, especially when we're fatigued, we're burnt out,
and we're stressed, so many of us are kind of
turning to this this little buzz that we're trying to
get over night time before we go to bed.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, it's a great question, and I think again, this
is the big missing piece when we talk to people
about food or improving the way that they eat. People
are eating not just for physical hunger. They're eating for
emotional hunger as well. Right, and if you're eating for
emotional hunger, you don't need another diet. But telling you
about the principles of healthy eating, right, you already kind
(10:12):
of know that you need to understand what are these
internal triggers. One of the exercises that I love and
I've been doing with my patients for years is called
the three f's or the freedom exercise. Okay, So the
three fs are feel, feed and fine. Okay, So next
(10:32):
time someone is on their sofa at nine pm in
the evening and even though they had a full meal
at eight o'clock, they feel like some ice s cream.
I'm not saying that's ever happened to you, you guys.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It was literally me last night. I was just thinking,
this is me last.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Night, just in case it supplies to anyone. Okay, the
three F X sise can be really, really powerful. Okay,
So you're sitting on the sofa, You've got a urge
to have ice cream. Okay. The first step, so I say,
have a little pause before you go and get the
ice scream out of the freezer. Just ask yourself what
am I actually feeling? That's the first F Okay, is
this physical hunger. No, I kind of eate an hour ago.
(11:10):
Is this emotional hunger? Am I tired? Am I stressed?
Have I just had a row with my partner, you know,
as the children's bedtime gone on too long? Whatever, it
might be one of my really feeling. Then go get
the ice scream and have it if you want to. Okay.
The next time it happens, you go through the first
self again, what am I feeling? And then you go
to the second F How does food feed the feeling?
(11:34):
So the second F is feed So you've identified the
feeling as stressed, and then you go, oh, well, when
I have my ice scream, in the short term, at
least I feel less stressed. Ah, okay, so that's why
I'm eating. I'm like, I'm feeling stressed and ice cream
makes me feel better. Okay, great. The next time it happens,
you then go to the third F. So you again
(11:54):
go through the process, what am I feeling, I'm feeling stressed?
How does food feed the feeling? Oh, the ice cream
makes me feel less stressed. The third F is find
Now that I know the feeling, Now that I know
how food feeds the feeling, can I find an alternative
behavior to feed that feeling.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What you're going to say, can you find Can I
find the food? Can I find the treats going to satisfy?
Speaker 4 (12:21):
No? Well you could you could. You could apply it
like that, or you could go, Okay, so I feel stressed,
you normally go to ice cream? What else can I
do to manage that stress? Okay, let's say you like
yoga for example, Right, you could put on YouTube and go, actually,
I'm going to do five minutes of yoga. Right, you
could identify that you know what I'm not at any
(12:43):
time to myself today, Right, I've just been on zoom
calls and so ice cream was a way of just
twreating myself. Okay, how could you treat yourself in a
different way? Ah, maybe I'll run myself a bath and
nourish myself. And it'slightly different way. If it's loneliness that's
causing you to eat, as it is for many people,
or they feel a bit isolated or lonely instead of
(13:03):
going to the ice scream, what else could you do? Well,
if you live with someone like your part or a flatmate,
you could go and talk to them. If you don't,
you could pick up your phone. You could phone a friend,
you could phone one of your parents if they're still alive,
or whatever it might be. And I know it sounds
super simple, but I have used these three s with
(13:23):
patients four years and it can often be life changing
because you know, your question was why do we do this? Right?
A lot of the time we're not conscious of why
we're doing this. We get the urge and before we
know it, the spoons in our mouth right with ice
scream in it. And all this exercise does. It just
starts to give you a little bit of a gap
(13:43):
between the stimulus, which is I want to eat something,
and your response, which is the ice scream. And the
more you just create a little gap there, the more
you start to understand yourself. And once you understand why
you're going to that behavior, right, you've automatically changed your
relationship with that behavior. Even if you go to it
(14:04):
in the future, you'll know, you know, I'm managing stress
here by eating this ice scream, and it means you're
For most people, they're less likely to do it once
they're tuned in to why they're actually engaging in that behavior.
So again, it's a simple exercise that you can apply
to food. You can also apply to alcohol or three
(14:25):
hours scrolling TikTok or Instagram. You can. It's a very
simple you know, will it work for serious addictions, No,
probably not. But at the same time, for many of us,
when we've got these behaviors that we're really trying to
cut back on, it can be a very powerful exercise.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
How much do you think willpower comes into plane? And
having said that, do you think will power is something
that you can learned? I even say this last night
yesterday you mentioned if you're really stressed you want to eat. Yesterday,
I was really stressed. I'd been crying in the day,
I'd had a whole lot of things. Got tonight time
and I bought twenty two East Riggs big ones and
I started to eat them because I was like, I
(15:02):
want my hit. Started to eat them, couldn't stop, and
then there was a complete disconnect with my brain and
my body. My brain was literally saying stop eating them,
like stop it now, put what is in your hand down.
And then I couldn't do it. And then I said
to myself, at least too slower, and I could not.
That's why I said, I was like, enjoy the egg.
(15:22):
That is in your mouth, and I could not. I
could not. My mind was being like slower down, enjoy
the moment. And then I just was like a guzzleguts
and I thought, what is happening there? Why is this
huge disconnect happening between my brain and my body?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
Were you stressed at the time? Is that what you said?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Oh yeah through the roof? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yeah? And you know, stress causes a disconnection, right, because
when you are stressed, it literally changes the way you
experience the world. Right, So when you're stressed, your physiology
completely changes. Right, You're not expansive, you're not compassionate and
empathetic looking at the other perspective, your whole focus comes in.
(16:01):
When you're stressed, you're looking for problems. You feel a
bit tense, anxious, hypervigilant. That's natural because stress ultimately is
your body saying that it thinks that it's in danger. Right.
And that's the problem these days is that our stress
response has been activated not by wild predators. It's been
activated by the state of our daily lives, by our
(16:21):
email inboxes, by our multiple social media channels we're trying
to keep up to date with or whatever it might be, right,
and our body responds in a different way. But that's
the key point, Brittany. You have to understand that actually
stress literally changes your physiology. So you know you're saying
there's a disconnect there. Yeah, there is a disconnect there.
That's literally what is going on. Right, So instead of
(16:43):
beating yourself up about that, it's like recognizing, oh wow, okay,
when I get really stressed. You know, let's say yesterday
happens again in two weeks, right, is there anything you
can learn from yesterday what you didn't do, for example,
that you could have done that could help you have
less stress if a similar day happens in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean absolutely. Firstly, I wouldn't buy the East
Dregs on special. Secondly I would probably do pilates.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah. But also, did you take a break in the day, right?
Were you just powering through and the stress just accumulated?
Because that's another thing. Often when we're busy and with stressed,
we don't take breaks, and all those breaks, even a
five minute walk can help reduce stress. Elves reduce strevel,
so you're less likely to get to your threshold. And
at your threshold is when you buy the twenty two
(17:32):
Easter eggs. Right, you don't buy it when you're just
a little bit stressed. You buy it when you're right
at your threshold. So again, I don't believe in the
concepts of wasted time anymore. Right in the sense that
we spend time that has a consequence, and if we
can learn from how we spent our time, it wasn't
a waste. So your stressful day yesterday could be a
very powerful teaching moment for you. Could be like, oh wow,
(17:55):
so I've still got that tendency when I'm really stressed
to go and buy twenty two easter eggs. How I
not have that much stress in my life? If the
same events happen next time? Could I take a walking break?
Could I do a bit of meditation halfway on what
I'm commuting home instead of listening to the news. I'm
not saying you did that, but could I put on
some relaxing music for five minutes or put on a
(18:18):
meditation app and just reset. It's not as hard as
we think it is once we're aware of what's actually
driving our behaviors.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
On this concept of relaxation, I think a lot of us,
I mean, particularly for women in our age categories they've
got a lot on their plates, a lot of them
will be raising young children, a lot of them will
still have full time jobs, and even for us who
don't have kids, like I feel as though my day
is just.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Go go, go, go, go, go, go go go.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I get to the very end of the day, I
shut the laptop and I try to get to sleep.
And the concept of relaxation is one that we've had
many conversations about things like toxic productivity and how we
are not meant to be trying to fit every single minute,
every hour of our day to be the most productive
that we can. And relaxation is something that I feel
(19:06):
quite uncomfortable with. Guilty, Yeah, I think it is guilt,
And there's definitely a discomfort when I'm taking time, you know,
time that I would say would be time out to
try and put myself into a relaxed state. And it
almost creates like a bit of a cycle for me
where I'm like, Okay, I know that relaxation is necessary
(19:26):
so that I can get good sleep and so I
can feel good and maybe say that I can be
good tomorrow. But then when I'm actually trying to do
the things that relax me, I feel guilty about the
fact I'm not using the time more efficiently. Is this
something that you see a lot like in your clinical practice?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Oh? Yeah, especially with women. I've seen this for years.
In fact, in my first book, I wrote about this,
and I actually said in that book that one thing
I've heard from female patients over the years, time and
time again is when I talk some about me time
and some time each day for it, you know, one
of the things I would I would often say some is,
(20:01):
you know, can you find ten minutes a day where
you do something unashamedly for you, not for your partner,
not for your kids, something that just you want to do.
And often if I was able to persuade them and
inspire them to go, now, this is really important, give
it a try, they would come back and say, you
know what, Dot, you gave me permission to relax. And
(20:22):
it was a really interesting phrase I heard because I
thought I never thought my job as a doctor was
to give anyone a permission to do anything. But I
do find that it's particularly with women. They would often
describe to me exactly what you just said. I've seen
definitely with mums loads of times, and I appreciate both
of you said that, you know, you don't have kids,
(20:42):
so that's not necessarily the reason why. But what I'll
often say to them is, look, if you're not if
you're feeling guilty about this, what I often encourage me to
do is, what is it you would love to do?
Like absolutely love not you know, I want, I need
to do this because it's going to help me relax,
need to do my meditation, all right, forget all that
for a minute. What would you love to do that
(21:04):
sounds like fun? Because we know from the research that
regularly doing things that you love makes you more resilient
to stress, and at the same time, being chronically stressed
makes it harder for you to experience pleasure from those
things that you used to love. And so, like, I
remember this one patient. She was a fourth I think
she was forty four years old, and she was a mother,
(21:27):
and she had Crohn's disease, inflammacy bow disease, which is
on the rise and fortunate there's many reasons for that.
But I said to her, look, I really want you
to take fifteen minutes each day for yourself, want you
to do something that you love. And literally, for her
it was getting into salsid dancing. Right, She'd always wanted
to do that, but she never thought she could justify
(21:50):
the time she was doing some for her husband, doing
some for her children, doing stuff for her community. She
never felt yep, actually I'm worth it. It's okay to
have fifteen minutes a day for me. And just doing
that for four weeks, her symptoms, her symptoms and croneses
went down by over fifty percent. Wow. And you know,
(22:13):
didn't cure it, just to be clear, but it was
much more manageable for her because her stress levels went down.
And so you know, and I think, what better prescription
to get from your doctor than do something that you love. Right.
This could be dancing, It could be playing your guitar
if you're into playing guitar. It could be singing in
your kitchen, dancing in your kitchen. It could be watching
(22:34):
your favorite comedian on YouTube for ten minutes and laughing.
But I often find that's a simple and easier way
to get into relaxation sometimes, and it can be very effective.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Doctor Chatji, your book, The Four Pillar Plan How to Relax, eat,
move and Sleep your way to a longer, healthier life.
What a great name for a book, because everybody wants that.
Let's talk about the four pillars, and how do you
decide that these were going to be the specific special fourth.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Well, so, the four pillars of health that we have
the most control over and have the most impact on
our health are food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. And what
I say in that book, and I still maintain to
this day, is that you don't need perfection in any
one of the four pillars, but you need balance amongst
(23:25):
all four. Okay, you need to think about those four.
And I think a really helpful piece of advice for
anyone listening to this right now is to ask yourself
in which of these four pillars do I need the
most help? Most of us intuitively know that if you ask,
you know, food, movement, sleep, and relaxation, which one is
our kind of weak area?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
What happens if you have two, Well.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Let's come to that. If you've identified that, actually, this
one's really bad, right, I would say you're much better
off making one change in that week, Carrier, rather than
trying to strengthen your favorite area, and you're your strong
area a bit more so, what I would often see
is people, let's say, people who are really interested in
nutrition their diets already, let's say eighty five percent goods.
(24:10):
They're obsessed with taking the diet from eighty five percent
good to ninety or ninety five percent good, but neglecting
the fact that they're only sleeping five hours a night.
And I'm like, you know what, keep your diet where
it is, a little bit of sugary stuff at the weekends. Fine,
don't stress about that. I would much rather you focus
on bringing that five hours a sleep up to five
(24:31):
and a half hours, or to six hours if you can. Yeah, sure,
seven hours if you can. But you know, just a
little bit of improvement. I found over the years that
it's much more effective to strengthen your weakest pillar. Right,
So I think it's a very simple thing for people
to ask themselves, which pillar do I need the most working?
And pick one thing in that area where you can
(24:52):
start to make it better. In response to your question,
if you find there's two areas well, the first thing
I'd say is which one is weaker? If you know?
If you don't know, I would say, yeah, put your
attention on those two, right, don't worry about the other
two pillars. Just go these two. Read a lot of
attension at the moment, I don't know. Let's say it
was stress and sleep for example. You know, you say, Okay,
(25:14):
what's one thing I can do each day to help
me destress and what's one thing I can do that's
going to help me sleep better? And just focus on
those things. I think that where we really get into
trouble is where we try and make loads of changes
in all of these four pillars and we end up
doing nothing.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Britt what do you reckon you'd struggle with the most.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Sleep's definitely mine, one hundred percent. And that's actually something
that I wanted to chat to you about. Obviously, men
and women are wired very differently. How do these pillars
or sorry, which category or which pillar itself affects women
and men differently?
Speaker 4 (25:48):
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, stress, okay,
is probably one of the big ones where you see
a I think it's the thing that affects so many
of us these days. You know, the World Health organizers
say that stress is the health epidemic of the twenty
first century. I would say the way that we can
often manage stress and the way we look at stress
(26:10):
can be quite different. I think women absorb a lot
of the stresses off the world around them into their bodies.
I think, you know, it really relates to what you
said before about this guilt. I think women very much
are wired to want to, you know, look after the
world around them, you know, nurture, and I think the
way modern society has changed, where there is so many
(26:33):
things to do and so many pressures, I think it
probably adversity affects women more than men. And we know
that women, for example, get higher rates of autoimmune disease
than men, and stresses a big part of that. Right.
In fact, Gable matse dotor Gable maase trauma expert. He
calls women, I think modern society stress absorbers, right, which
(26:56):
is really interesting. He says, there's all the stress in
the modern world, and women seem to be I'm not
saying men have no stress, to be clear, but I
do think women are quite unique with how they take
that stress on and how much it affects their bodies.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
We internalize it more, I think, so.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, very much so, and often don't vocalize it. Whereas
you know, you can't say men and women were all
different within that, but broadly speaking, I think men can
be better at compartmentalizing things and just moving on. Actually,
I'll leave that and it's slot there, and I can
move on to a different part of my life and
not think about that. Whereas I I certainly my experience
(27:31):
with seeing patients over the years is that women don't
do that in the same way. I think potentially people
can learn to do that, but I don't. I think
men more naturally tend to do that. I always think
food we can think about differences between men and women,
And again these are just broad generalizations. Broadly speaking, a
lot more men tend to thrive on fasting plans than women. Right,
(27:55):
that doesn't mean women can't fast. Just to be clear,
I've got many female that thee is who thrive on
a certain form of fasting.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
What do you mean when you say thrive, Do you
mean that they have the results thereafter or that they
actually feel bitter and have physical health?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Both? Really both? Because I think there is this narrative
now that fasting is maybe okay for men, but it
isn't something women should do. I agree, broadly speaking, that
men and women deal with this stuff differently. I think
fasting can be a stressor on the body, right, it
is a stress on the body. So if you're already
(28:31):
experiencing lots of stress, and we've just mentioned how women
may be internalized stress in a different way to men,
fasting can be an additional stress and tip them over.
I have seen that as well. But I do think, broadly,
speaking to that sort of general question, what do men
and women respond differently to? I think the way they
(28:52):
deal with stress, I think can be quite different, but
also the way that they deal with fasting can be
very different as well. A lot of this cultural than
the sense that you know, these things are quite punchy
areas with people to talk about, right, But there is
a lot of pressure on women these days, I think,
and I'm saying this as a man, this is what
I've observed with patients, what I've observed with my wife
and her friends. Let's compare to I don't know, fifty
(29:16):
years ago, right. Just to be clear, I'm not saying
we should be going back to the way things worth
fifty years ago, right, I'm just just to be super clear.
Life fifty years ago, for all the potential negatives, in
some ways, it was simpler, right. People knew what their
role was. Whether we agree with those roles or not.
(29:39):
Those roles were quite well defined in many cultures, and
I think those well defined roles led to a simplicity
and potentially lower stress. Whereas I think one of the risks,
or one of the unintended consequences of all the increased
opportunity now that women are getting compared to fifty years
(29:59):
gon not even saying it's as good as it should be,
I'm just saying compared to fifty years ago, what I
find is that, yeah, women are working now, They're doing
great jobs, they're starting amazing businesses. Yet if and when
they choose to have children, they still feel that maternal
instinct of being the care of being the nurture, being
the one who wants to look after the kids. So
(30:20):
in fifty years ago, perhaps broadly speaking, their focus could
just be on that, whereas now the focus is I'm
still trying to run my business, I'm still trying to
crush it on Instagram, and I'm also trying to look
after the kids. That is a lot to contend with, right,
And I don't think this has been planned. I'm saying
this is an unintended consequence, but I think it's something
(30:42):
we need to wrestle with as a society. I think
we need to wrestle with this idea is like, are
we putting too much on women's plates? How can we
change that? But I also to defend men here, and
I'm a man saying this, But I also do believe
that men are also struggling with new gender roles, right,
Men are also struggling with well, what is my role now?
(31:05):
Like I remember, my dad was never ever at a
school play, a school performance. Like dad worked, right, Dad's
job was to earn the money to feed us all.
Whereas I remember when my kids were young, I had
a busy job, but I was I still felt huge
pressure and I wanted to be at my children's performances,
you know, I wanted to be at school at two
(31:26):
pm to watch them read out a recital, lever it
might be. And again, I'm not complaining, right, I'm not
complaining at all. But I do think it's interesting and
I don't think I think we need to have honest
conversations about how our roles have changed. And it's okay
to say actually were struggling with this. And I think
saying that we struggle with this doesn't mean we wanted
(31:47):
to go back and it doesn't mean we're being sexist.
It just means, hey, this is a real problem. Let's
come together and try and figure out how we might
move forward with this. Did that all make sense?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I also think what plays in here is the way
we now live, right is quite alien to how we
used to live. So the nuclear family, for example, is
a modern invention. Right for most of human evolution, we
did not bring up kids by ourselves, you know, in
nuclear families. It was in tribes, it was in communities.
(32:20):
And so this has a real consequence. Right now, everything
has plus points and negative points pretty much everything in life.
There's an upside and a downside. Okay, So one of
the upsides of many people will say now is we
have independence, we can move away, get a really good job,
go to the city, have all this opportunity that we
(32:40):
didn't have in the past. Great, that's an upside. Downside
is we've often moved away from our parents, our siblings,
our community, the people who knew us, the people who
would support us. So the consequence of nuclear families is
so many couples, their relationships are under huge stress after
they have kids. You know, I've seen it with a
(33:02):
lot of my friends I've seen it with countless patients.
And it's not that that people don't love each other,
it's just it's too much for two And this is
on the assumption that there's two parents living together, which
of course much of the time isn't the case. But
if two parents are working and then they have children
who look after it and they have no support nearby,
(33:25):
that is full on. You have no time to nourish
your relationship, you know, So you know, the partners become dissent,
they start niggling with each other. That in and off
itself creates stress, right, And so I think the only
way we get to a solution is by honestly identifying
what is the root of this problem and understanding that
I don't think we were designed to do all this
(33:47):
by ourselves. That I think is one of the root
causes of why there's so much sort of stress going
on and why we're struggling with these new roles.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
On this topic of stress.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
I think for me, the first thing that is affected
when I feel stressed is that I'm not able to
get as good quality sleep, and I think that that
is something that probably everybody experiences.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But another thing that I think.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Is specific to women, is that these hormonal fluctuations that
we go through, whether that be you know, throughout a
time of life or even a time.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Of the month.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I mean, I guess I'm sample study of one, but
I've definitely experienced different sleep patterns and the quality of
sleep that I'm able to get. I feel like it
changes over the course of like my menstrual cycle and throughout.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Different periods of my life. What are those changes, how.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Are they affecting you know, firstly, our stress levels, and
how are they affecting our ability to get good quality sleep?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
When you mentioned the cycle there, the mental cycle, and
how in different stages of the cycle you feel different
levels of stress and different amounts of sleep. That is normal, Okay,
that's completely normal. You know, your body is hormonally different
throughout the mental cycle. That's one of the key differences
between women and men are preate on these twenty four
hour cycles. Women operate on, you know, traditionally this more
(35:04):
twenty eight day cycle. Of course, there's a bit of
variation there whether it's twenty eight days or twenty six
or thirty thirty one, but you know, broadly speaking, that's
same massive difference between men and women. And I actually
remember I spoke to Dr Mindy Pelts on my podcast
about maybe three years ago. She was just breaking down
the different stages of a female cycle and how a
(35:26):
woman might want to eat differently at various times. She
was you know, I remember very clearly she's saying, you know,
the week before the periods, she was saying, actually, you know,
most women do crave carbs, and it's okay to actually
indulge and have those carbs in that week, but you know,
at the start of the cycle you may not as much.
So if you do want to, you know, change your
(35:47):
diet and go lower carb for example, then that's the
time to do it. But we also discussed in that conversation,
let's say in a heterosexual couple, for example, let's say
a man and a woman, right that benefits have actually
been quite open about what stage on someone's cycle someone is,
so I think for many years we thought, well, it's
you know, it's not the man's business, you know what's
(36:09):
going on with a woman's mental cycle. But we were
just hypothesizing, well, might it create more harmony in relationships
if the other partner, whether it was a man or woman. Frankly,
doesn't really matter that knew that. Actually, yeah, at this point,
you know, I'm not sleeping as well, I'm a bit
(36:29):
more moody. I'm craving carbs. Actually, then you know at
those points, actually you could if you let's say, if
that was my wife, for example, and I knew, okay,
this is the week leading at her period and she's
struggling with this sleep. With that knowledge, I can be
more patient. I can you know, try to not take
(36:49):
things personally and go, oh, this is hormonal. She's struggling
with this. And I think increasing that communication over these things,
I actually think while some people may say it's in
a fridgement of privacy and it's no one else's business. Fine,
I'm not here to tell, you know, what everyone should
or shouldn't do. I just think it's quite a nice
thing to think about. Actually, might that be helpful? And
(37:12):
certainly since that conversation, my wife and I do communicate
about this kind of stuff, and I would say it's
really really helps because I have a much better understanding
of where she is in her cycle and how that
also affects her and therefore affects our relationship.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Do women need more sleep than men?
Speaker 4 (37:30):
As a rough generalization. I was saying my experience, I
would say, yes, right, that seems to be the case.
But I can't say it's the case for everyone, right,
you just can't. We're all the individual, we're all different.
So I can't say that every woman needs more set
than every man. But as a broad principle, I do
think women tend to thrive on a little bit more
(37:52):
seat than men. Certainly, again, this is again in any
course one, but in my own marriage, I would say
my wife absolutely needs more sleep than me, good hour
and night, more seat than me, and it's very noticeable
if she's not guessing that. And I don't mean that
in a derogatory way, just to be really clear, I
just I'm just genuinely it's sort of just I'm just
defending my wife that I'm not saying anything nastam. It's
(38:14):
just and I think we would both agree she does
seem more seat to me, and that's certainly what's seemed
with my patients.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
There was an interview that you did with doctor gable Matte,
and for me, it was so powerful and it was
something that really changed the way I think. And it
was sort of around you know, he's in his late sixties,
and it was around if you had to go back
and do something differently in your life, what would you do?
And it was really powerful when I watched it, and
he talked a lot about he would do everything differently,
(38:42):
and he would spend more time sitting in joy and
things that you know, his family and the things that
mattered to him, because he just thought he had to.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Work, work, work.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
For me, I really took a lot away from that conversation,
and I've been thinking about it a lot. Out of
all the conversations you've had over the years and all
the incredible peace you've had the chance to speak to,
is there something or someone or a piece of advice
that has really stuck with you and changed the course
of the way that you think and act.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, he wishes he'd played more. Right. For all his success,
for all his expertise, for all the fact that he's
invited all over the world to speak and he's sold
a squillion books, he again has regrets. He wishes to
live life differently. He wishes he'd played more And think
it goes back to what I said earlier on about
passion right. Doing things that you love that you enjoy
(39:32):
is really good for you. It helps you become more
resilient to stress as well. So I think too much
of the health conversation these days is about deprivation and restriction. Right,
we don't talk enough about joy. Doing things that you
love is good for you. Right, It's really good for you.
And actually it's something I wish we would talk about
(39:52):
a lot more. And actually, when I come on tour
to Australia this summer, I will absolutely be talking about
this and the benefits of more joy and passion in
your life. So I've had four conversations with Gabor on
my podcast over seven years, and they've all touched me
in different ways. But if you say, what was the conversation,
what was the piece of advice that has had the
(40:13):
most impact, It's what I started the show with, right,
It's my conversation with Edith Eager that I re released
recently for an episode five hundred special. That conversation changed me.
It fundamentally changed who I was, because not only did
she say those magical words you know wrong. And I've
lived in Auschwitz and I could tell you the greatest
prison you will ever live inside is the prison that
(40:36):
you create inside your own minds. But it literally you know,
I remember coming out of that conversation and I said
to my videographer, I'm not the same person anymore. Like
I am not the same person anymore. That the way
I view myself and the world has fundamentally changed. Because
for me, understanding that in a death camp she could
(40:59):
reframe her experiences, it just really powerfully taught me that,
oh wrong, good. You know what, even on your worst day,
you're not in a death camp, right, So if she
can reframe her experiences in Auschwitz, you can reframe them
in your own life. And that single realization has changed
(41:19):
the way that I experienced life. It's changed the way
I experience stress. And if I'm ever struggling, I go,
what's the other perspective here? How can I take a
different perspective on this situation, which would mean it would
not be as stressful. So I've had over five hundred conversations,
many of them have left their profound effects on me.
But if you make me choose, it would still be
(41:41):
that conversation with that ninety three year old lady Edith Eager.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
What a beautiful and powerful woman. That's so special. Thank
you so much for joining us. Today.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
We are so grateful to be chatting to you from
the other side of the world. But we might not
have to chat to you from the other side of
the world for very long because you are coming to
visit us in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane in July. Why
we are going to have links to doctor Rungan, Charatejy's
social media podcast and tour in our show notes.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
Guys, thank you very very much, really joined my chat
and I cannot wait to be in Australia this summer.
So we're coming for a family holiday and those three
dates and we cannot wait.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Well, if you have some time in Sibby would love
to show you around and if you would like to
have a chat in person. I mean, I don't necessarily
want to make you worth more on your family.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Holiday, but if you've got the time.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
We would love to pay right well, listen, let me
check it out and if so, yes, I'll see you
guys as Sydney. I look forward to it.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
We would love that.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Takkay guys. Byeye
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