The Facts VS Fads Of Skin, Skincare and Longevity - Uncut With Dr Natasha Cook

Today’s episode is one that has been so highly requested over the years, we’re surprised it’s taken this long to talk about it! We’re talking about all things skin, skincare and myths about longevity. Joining us is Dr Natasha Cook, one of Australia’s leading dermatologists and the founder of her own skincare range DrNC. Dr NC is particularly straight forward when it comes to breaking down the facts vs the fads of skin.

We want to chat about the things we all want to know but are too scared to ask — like whether saunas are secretly ageing us, if collagen supplements are a waste of money, and why so many Australian companies had their sunscreens pulled from the shelves because they weren't what they said they were!

We speak about:

• The 6 key skin concerns. Most of us want to treat more than one.
• Should we prioritise skincare or nutrition? Dr NC’s answer to this might surprise you
• How much sugar and alcohol affects skin and can cause pimples
• Are collagen powders or gummies worth our money?
• Sleep - what products and routines help our skin
• If you’re serious about skin, saunas/hot yoga & pilates aren’t good
• Skin barriers & barrier function. What’s compromising the barrier?
• Botox - whether you get ‘used’ to it
• Perception drift and ‘preventative’ botox
• At home devices like LED lights, rollers, gua sha etc
• The “SPF Australia Scandal” and how these companies are avoiding Australian testing. Dr Cook “It is deceptive and misleading conduct.”
• How aerosol spray sunscreens are really misleading
• What lasers are best and will give the best results
• Dr NC’s ‘non negotiables’

You can find more from DrNC at her website including her dermatologist designed skincare 

You can follow DrNC on instagram 

You can watch us on Youtube

Find us on Instagram

Join us on tiktok

Or join the Facebook Discussion Group

Hosted by Britt Hockley & Keeshia Pettit 

Produced by Keeshia Pettit

Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford

Recorded on Cammeraygal Land

Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! Xx

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on Card.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm Brittany and I'm Keisha, and today's episode has been
so highly requested. I am quite genuinely surprised that we
have gotten this many years into the podcast and we
haven't done a proper episode about it. We are going
to be talking about Britt's favorite subject, skin. Yeah, we
are going to be talking skin longevity. And we are
joined by doctor Natasha Cook or doctor NC. She is

(00:36):
one of Australia's leading dermatologists and the founder of doctor NC.
She is also the person who I think changed my life,
but I'll get.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Into that a little bit later. I changed your life?
Did you change your life?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
But today's episode, we're going to be breaking down a
lot of the myths about products that are working things
that aren't. We're going to talk about the SPF industry
and what's been happening this year with a lot of
the manufacturers of SPF coming out and having to admit
that their sunscreens weren't as strong as what they were
marketing them as. We're going to talk about saunas, We're
going to talk about botox. We're going to break down

(01:08):
whether collagen is worth your money or not. But before
we do, firstly, I want to say thank you to you,
doctor mc, because, like I said, you did change my life.
I came to you a couple of years ago. I
presented with I guess what would be called adult acne,
This really really painful sore sebacious style acne kind of
along my jaw line, and it kind of took over

(01:29):
a lot of my face. And for me, this was
not just about an aesthetic thing. It really impacted me
psychologically as well. I was dating at the time, and
I remember getting to the point where I really didn't
want to be staying over at guys houses that I
was seeing because I was so worried about what things
might look like in the morning. And I guess what
cystic acne might have popped up overnight, And it made me.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Feel really embarrassed.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
It made me feel really embarrassed to be in my
late twenties and still having to deal with something that
most people kind of get over when they're a teenager.
And I came to see you, one look at me
and you said, okay, yep, firstly, we can treat that
don't worry, we'll get rid of it. It'll all be fine.
I also think that you might have something going on hormonally,
and so this story might be a bit familiar to

(02:11):
some people because a couple of months ago we did
an episode with an endochronologist where we spoke about PCs
and you were the very first person to say, I'm
going to send you to my friend who's an endochronologist.
I think that you might have you know, some PCOS
going on, and you completely change my life.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Well, that makes the job and all the hard study
to get here totally worthwhile.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's the only validation you everated.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
Well, it's true.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
That's one of the beauties of being a dermatologist. Like
people can see their problems, and it's also their skin
and their face is what they present to the outside world,
and so how much impact that has affecting people internally
and their self esteem.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
It is more than skin deep.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
Yeah, and it's a really nice position to be and
to make such a positive difference on people's lives every
single day. I know that sounds a little bit you know,
woke or whatever, but it's true, and you literally will
see teenagers. I've got really terrible cystic acne, the shoulders
are haunch, the face is hidden, and then you start
saying the posture improve, the whole personality change you heart,

(03:09):
lovely things from their parents, and yeah, it's a wonderful.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
Specially, it's a very difficult specialty.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
It's one of the hardest specialties to get accepted onto
the training scheme in all the specialties globally. But it's
got so much diversity with your patients and men, women, young, old,
and then obviously now and I'm very much an asthetic
and a procedural and a laser dermatologist. The technology is
just fantastic and we can make such a big difference
to people's skin and how they feel about themselves.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
What made you want to get into dermatology in the
first place.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
So I got through medicine.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
So I went to mid school seventeen from a regional
girl like all of you girls here today in the country.

Speaker 5 (03:45):
And once I was in the hospital system.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
To be honest, as an intern is about twenty three,
we're all as sure as like, oh man, this public
hospital system is awful. I mean, it's quite brutal, the
training and just it wasn't always about outcomes. For the patient.
There's a lot of politics, and I was ready to
pull the plug. And then anyway, I was working at
Manly Hospital in the orthopedic ward and I befriended this
lovely young nurse and we became friends. My dad's a derm.

(04:10):
You should think about Drham, I went, I don't know
where I want to stay in med Anyway, he just
spent a lot of time in America and with lasers
and all those technologies were just I mean, this is like,
you know, late nineties. I've ridden the entire growth curve
of this industry from its inception to now it being
so popular. And then I saw what he was doing
and I loved all the idea of this technology and procedures,

(04:32):
and there was a creative side to that. And I'm
a very creative person. So what I'm creative, I tend
to be content happy. And I was like, wow, this
this is a cool specialty. And obviously it was extremely
hard to get on the training program. You had to
sit exams that were only able to sit once a year.
It was eighty five percent marks you had to get
to pass and passed in the first set, so four

(04:53):
out of forty four of us passed.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
So not good odds isn't No, it's not good odds.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
It's the overwhelming imposter syndrome anxiety in all of but
the fundamentals of a lot of that knowledge I look
back then, then sets you up in a position to
now understand cytokines or exosomes and elected biology and all
these other things are becoming super trendy. Yeah, it makes
you a better specialist. And then after that you set
entrance interviews. I think sixteen people interviewed me. And then

(05:17):
four years of intensive training, working at multiple discipline hospital locations,
driving in my non air condition diet.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
To trade to Liverpool.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Ever, forget at forty one degrees temperatures, I had to
take a change of clothes.

Speaker 5 (05:31):
Yeah, and we used to call it.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Livers that delivers because you saw everything out there, from
leprosy to Norwegian total body scabies to you name it.
And there wasn't a lot of supervision, but it was
definitely the camp costs of learning experience in the world
of dermatology. Fast forward now where I have my own business.
I started formulating Cosmeceutical skin care two thousand and five,

(05:53):
as soon as I'd finished my training and I've managed
to have a successful clinic, a six as Fu laser clinic,
and successful skincare companies, so here I am well.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Skin is something that everyone, like everyone listening knows that
I've been on my skin journey for a long time.
And when I say skin journey, I feel very lucky
that I never ever have suffered from acne like I've
never had that. I've never had bad skin in that sense.
But I would say that since I put effort into
my skin care and doing lasers and just having good
quality skincare, I think I've reversed my age. I would

(06:26):
say I look better now than I do ten twelve
years ago, and that's because I just I spent a
lot of time in the sun without that knowledge back
then of like actually what it was doing. I didn't
use any skincare at all. I would wash my face
with I was a real tomboy. And I'm not saying
that's a bad thing, but I just didn't have the education,
and I think a lot of people don't. And as
I grew up, I reversed a lot of sun damage

(06:49):
and I just feel like I got my skin to
a place I didn't think it could get to. Which
is is incredible for people and a lot of people
are always writing and I'm not just saying this, always
saying what are you doing for your skin? Want to
know about skin care, And that's why we thought it
was going to be such a great episode to speak
to you about it so that people can understand what
you treat, why you treat it, and what can be done.
And I think the first big question is what do

(07:11):
you think is the most common reason people come to
see what are they trying to treat healthy skin?

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Just over overall they want healthy skins, So whether that's
and I've devised this concept of the six key skin
concerns because after doing this for a couple of decades,
there was this pattern of these six key things that
most people had two, three, or even six of the problems.
So that's dehydration, dry skin, exma, category sensitivity, redness, rosat, acne, congestion, pigmentation, aging,

(07:41):
sun damage. So they're the top six that I deal
with every single day, and some people might have acne
sensitivity and pigment, right, So you've got to whatever you're prescribing,
particularly your daily routine, needed to be effective enough to
help everybody with all their skin concerns and not make
one better the one worse and.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Big part of what we wanted to do today was
break down some of the myths about skin or skin
care and some of the things that we can be doing.
I mean, for me, it did come to medication, but
perhaps things that you can be doing before it gets
to that point.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
How much does nutrition affect skin?

Speaker 3 (08:16):
And if you were to kind of be given the
duality of you can either only focus on something like
vitamin C, for example, you can only focus on it
through nutrition or through skin care, not both.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
What would you prefer?

Speaker 5 (08:30):
I do nutrition, I just get care. I'll tell you why.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
I mean, Vitamin C is great topically as an antioxidant,
so it's protecting it in its free radical damage, which
is what happens when we go in the sun, for example,
it's very unstable topically. How long does it last in
a bottle, et cetera. We don't really know, which is
why when we use our ccre and we make small
batches so things aren't expiring and people always getting fresh ingredients.
What happens if we are vitamin CEED deficient in our diet?

Speaker 5 (08:56):
Do you guys know, no scurvy get it out.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Do you not have to have almost zero though?

Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, but still if you look at the power if
you take a vitamin out of your diet, what it
does to your skin, you realize what it does do
for your skin. So scurvy is basically thin skin, poor
collagen production, bruising, bleeding gums. So vitamin sea is an
essential cofactor for the fibroblast, which is the cell that

(09:26):
makes collagen to make the collagen, and it doesn't come
out of collagen capsule.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, we will get in.

Speaker 5 (09:31):
Diet is key.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
We will will break that down, but diet is key.
So you know, and we now know that diet does
affect things like acne. Like back in the old school days,
it was like, no, it's not your chocolate, it's not
your sugar, it's your hormones. Now we know it is
because high sugar diets and particularly spiky sugar, create insulin instability.
Insulin then plays out in the skin and then corencreate
hormonal acne for example. So we do know sugar is

(09:52):
imperative in making pimples. We also know that sugar creates
another problem in the skin. It's known as glycation. So
sugar gets absorbed goes into the bloodstream and cross links
and damages your support structures in your skin that make
it nice and plump and buoyant, known as collagen, lastin
creating these molecules called advanced glycation end products that then

(10:14):
fragment the skin and end up increasing salainous wrinkling, sagging sunspots,
even dehydration.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Is that all sugar or is that just processed sugar?

Speaker 5 (10:24):
That's just sugar.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
Even fruit is fructose which is in sugar. And my
endochronologists who I think, I refer to you to Professor
Kathy Samaras she goes fructose sugar are the same thing
and the only real fruit that she advocates that you
should eat each day's berries because they're antioxidant benefit outweighs
the sugar component and they have such a great antioxide
effect for every single organ system including skin.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
And So what about alcohol? I guess a lot of
alcohol would fall into sugar.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Don't That's why I go French champagne right, lower sugar content.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Gin?

Speaker 5 (10:53):
Yeah, tequila, vodka.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
So what aspects of drinking? What aspects of alcohol outside
of the sugar consumption or the sugar level affects skin, The.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
Main issue with a lot of people with alcohol and
skin is the red wines because the ingredients. Look, you
don't have to not drink like the red wine's also good,
right because zveratrol. But the amount you get from red
wines probably not going to make a biological difference, Like
you'd probably have to drink enough that you'd be comatosed
every day.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Sort of counterintuity. Isn't it an x.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Counter totally and then your liver is definitely not thanking
for you. But alcohol types that cause flushing tends to
be the more red type wines, and the flushing can
then create sensitivity and rosation. So that's just a little
bit of you know, be careful and moderate and if
you find something does make you flush. I always said
my patients, please avoid it because then it's going to
create over a slow period of time, excess capillary development.

(11:44):
Capillaries create inflammation, mation leads to sensitivity. Then you'll be
seeing me for about two to four laser treatments to
get rid of it all. Red wines for some people
can be problematic when it comes to flushing, blushing and
increasing sensitivity.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
And what about collagen This is a really big question
collagen comes in many forms. We no one does different things.
But you can have a collagen powder, a collagen tablet,
a collagen gummy. They're a bit of a new trend
that was seeing a lot of people take tree. I
think the card, yes, I think the Kardashians did it recently,
like in the last year, or something brought out like
a gummy to make it cute and consumable. But my

(12:17):
understanding is it doesn't really do that much.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Yeah, that's basically from a scientific point of view, I
don't think it does.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Is that just the gummy, It's all of it.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
There's no hardcore, robust science that has literally shown take
all your control factors out right. So let's talk about
what definitively is the gold standard of increasing collagen layering
your skin. COO two herbium lasers. They've been around eighties, nineties,
forty fifty years, incredible robust studies that literally split face

(12:46):
right pre biopsy, post biopsy. One side's then treated with
the laser. You do a biopsy, you see stain, big
thick pink fibrils of excess collagen. Lastin production until you
can hold these new latest greatest trends to the same accountability.
The science really weak, and it's a before and after picture.
It's an imprint of a silicone. I mean, moisturizer can

(13:08):
make you look like you've got less s wrinkles than
before and after picture. So how can you say these
collagen powders and whatever really are making more collagen your
skin without doing biopsies? You can't Now what do we
know makes collagen? Protein? What's in collagen powders protein? What's
in food protein?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
Right? What else is in food that's good?

Speaker 4 (13:28):
Antioxidants to preserve in berries your collagen, and vitamin C
to make collagen. So I just do not understand what
the benefit is of fish scales are hydrolyzed into little
bits and pieces that will go through a gastric acid
environment in the stomach just get broken down into minor
acids that are substrates of protein without just eating a
good diet.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
So like to zoom out.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, are you saying that if someone was to go
to the store today and there are collagen powders on
the shelf, would you be giving it a miss?

Speaker 5 (13:53):
Yeah? I would.

Speaker 4 (13:55):
I'd rather see you go to your farmer's market. I'd
rather go and get your fresh berries. I'd like to
see you have whole foods. I'd like used to collectively
look at your entire diet. And also a lot of
the collage and powders come from fish sources. Supplement industry
is not really regulated because it's not considered a drug.
How do you know it's not contaminated with mercury, which
is a big problem, particularly for the low hanging fish. Right,

(14:16):
you know, the pelagic fish have the best, the most
healthy for you in that band, and they're low mercury.
So where are the scales coming from? Et cetera. So
I just have a lot of questions. It's not scientifically,
very robustly studied, and it's not a well regulated industry.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
So as a dirm, you do not take collagen.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
No, but I do have laser Oh yeah, every which way.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, it's like and.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
I think the results show.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Right that one said to me, what lasers do you get?
I said, sorry, what lasers?

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Don't option e all of the abuns?

Speaker 4 (14:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:44):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Now. I subject that everyone of them who listens to
this podcast regularly will know that I am obsessed with
is sleep. I think that sleep is one of those
things and it's like, yes, sleep equals better skin. I
don't know how though, how much can our sleep and
I guess our lack of sleep affect the look or
even the feel the functionality of our skin.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Well, every single organ system in our body is interconnected.
They all cross communicate, So sleep's essential for everything skin held, brain, health,
body repair, etc.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Right, So I mean the telltale signs.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Obviously, skin can be more dehydrated if you run down,
if you're stressed, you're not sleeping well, then all of
those cortisol type and stress like hormones are running around,
which will have a negative impact on your skin. Can
also lead to acne, breakout, some flaring, froizationia. So yes,
sleep is imperative to healthy skin. And we know when
we sleep we get to repair, so when we rest,

(15:36):
we repair. It's repairing DNA. So we've been out in
the sun. You want of those little DNA repair enzymes
to stop that DNA going down to skin cancer kind
of pathway for example. So it's super important for skin
like it is every other organ system.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Can I ask what do you sleep on? Like what
type of material of sheets like a bed? Yeah, but
I mean like we can get silk you can have satin,
you can have bamboo. There's kind of mixed messaging about
what's best for who and what's your take.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Great, So I've got a few tips around how to
sleep well. Also, you particularly you don't want to overheat,
so choose fabrics that breathe. So for me, I have
a wool based doner. I have cotton based or bamboo sheets.
So try and avoid synthetics, silk pillowcases. I think you're
a little bit mythology. They feel nice you slip around,
but they really going to prevent all those wrinkles long term.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's not worth it for me because it compromises my
sleep because I just slip right off.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I do the same like you go put your head on, You're.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
Like off the beer, totally, totally, it's the same.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
And then having a cool room. I put the air
conditioning on from about nineteen. I also like the ambient
noise of the air conditioning system, and I also like
the ambient noise of ocean waves on car map. I
find that gives me a really good deep sleep. And
you're being cooks. Overheating can create less rim sleep and
also disturb your sleep patterns and sweat, yes, and fabrics
that breathe with the body and can adjust.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I'd like to buy pass this question, Hesha, No, we
know where.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
We're speaking of heating.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
I saw a video on your instag a couple of
weeks ago that quite genuinely hit me in the heart.
I was talking about saunas and the fact that Britt
and I both love a sauna. We love a sweat
in the sauna. Are they good for our skin?

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Well, I don't want to say sauna is a bad
I'm not putting it into a total bad bucket. But
if you're serious about your skin, and as a dermatologist,
I'm very serious about skin. From an epidermal dermal point
of view, heating is bad for the skin. So they've
actually done some really good, robust studies about the effect
of heat on skin. Degradation is equally as powerful. It

(17:38):
does the same stuff as going out the sun, but
just more slower and not as aggressively, but does the
same stuff, so it activates the same they called the
metalloprotonasing enzymes that chomp up collage and elastin and your skin.

Speaker 5 (17:51):
They devote the same ones.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Heat is one of the biggest causes of pigmentation, particularly melasma. Okay,
so they had a whole outbreak. Some of my Upper
New York dermatology colleagues were like, you know, high profile
women that have fitness obsessed and perfectly manicured and do
everything the right way in laser therapies. They were all
breaking out in pigment. It was like this epidemic big
crom yoga. It was the culprit that's.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Not so say it's lucky.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
I don't be crom yoga, but I do like but.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
Yeah, heat can so look there's tips.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
I mean, look, I've sort of been the wellness trend
for like nearly twenty years ago now, and I've visited
Shiva so about eight times, and they pinted a lot
of these amazing things are now mainstream when it comes
to your health. And so it was the cold plungebull
in the steam room. At least steam is probably moist
for your skin, and I did like lying in it.
But look, I don't do much of this at all,
and I do think it can degrade your skin. But

(18:42):
I used to just have a little hack, and my
hack was I would get a bucket of ice. They authored,
I was nuts. But that's okay.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
You've got better skin than them, so it's fine, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Exactly, and my raisation's totally under controls. I'd get a
bucket of ice, I'd get two cool washers. I'd soak
them in the ice. I'd put one with the ice
around my neck to then keep my facial skin cool
to not flush, and I'd put the ice washer all
of my face. When I was lying in there, my
facial area wasn't getting hot. I didn't flush. I just
stay in for a little bit. I didn't overdo it.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Because the thing is too I don't want to like
fear among the people. There are benefits apparently allegedly that
you see that this changes all the time. There are
benefits to saunas on what it can do for your
body and your sleep, and you're carding ofascue your health,
and some people are even saying things like dementia. So
I don't want to scare too many people off the
fact that if you go into a sauna, you're going
to look a hundred in a year.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
But there are lots of other things that help all
those problems. Don't damage your skin, like time restricted eating right,
like movement is medicine, exercise botox.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
To pass.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Before we move on from saunas, is there a difference
between different types of saunas like a steam sauna you mentioned,
but a traditional sauna an infrared like are some of
them better than others?

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Probably in Fred's better than traditional and traditional is just
purely heats. Some inf red might have a benefit, but
really infrared is heat at the end of the day,
and if you series about your skin, there are other
ways to give you the same health benefits of a sauna,
but preserving your skin.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I also have showers, Like my showers are so hot
that my husband kind of get in it's like burning.
But I think I think there's a difference with what
women and men can tolerate. But that's even food for
thought for the way I shower. Because I shower like
you cannot turn my heat tap on any more than
what I.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Do, possibly could start having a detri metal effect on
your skin. And obviously, as you get older, your skin's
barrier function becomes a little bit more sensitive because your
natural moisturizing factors aren't as metabolic and you don't produce
as many as your own natural lipids, and your skin
can get more drier, so your hot showers may end
up not being such a friend over a long period
of time.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
I feel like the skin barrier has really been thrust
into you know, the TikTok and Instagram pop culture space.
How much of it do we actually need to be
worried about? And I guess did we all actually break
down our skin barriers using that' sin I've scrub when
we were fourteen, like scrubbing our entire layer?

Speaker 5 (21:00):
They're away.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Scrubs are just bad, right, It's like mechanical denuding the
outer layer. It's like attacking it. And their particles are
so big they don't even get down pours. They don't
really exfoliate. There's much smarter ways to do it. So
scrubs are definitely about bound for me to no barrier
function we know is imperative. A high functioning barrier, which
means smooth skin that reflects light, that's not flaky, that's
not dry, that's not itchy, That says your barrier is healthy.

(21:22):
High functioning healthy barrier equals high functioning skin. So what
we do to our skin we have to think about
is it compromising that barrier or not? And a dysfunctional
barrier is one of the cornerstones of a handful of
skin diseases. Acneque congestion and outbreak is usually dysfunctional barrier
per official dermatitis, XMA, irritant dermatitis, orzatia. Even pigmentation can

(21:45):
be linked to barrier dysfunction. So healthy high functioning barrier
does equal healthy high functioning skin. And one of the
two simplest things you can do to support barrier function
is cleanse with something that doesn't foam, doesn't scrub, gentle cleansing,
and that doesn't feel like after you've washed your face,
your skin's tight and dry that you're looking to first
quench it immediately with like that sort of cleansing means

(22:07):
it's too much.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
You don't want to strip your skin.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
Secondly, moisturize and then moisturize some more, and then moisturize.
Moisturized skin will always outfunction and outperform and be healthy
compared to dry skin, which is where we got the
whole acne messaging wrong. You know, the mainstream media marketers
will tell people what they believe because you make money quickly.
Changing beliefs. A lot of work doesn't make you rich,

(22:31):
and most people can't change their beliefs.

Speaker 5 (22:32):
Look at what's happening in the world, right.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I remember when I was having like when I say
my first rounds of acne, I would have been like
a young teenager. And I think I was informed that
if I put oil on my skin, it would make
the acne worse.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
You know, that's what was causing it.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
And I know that as I got older and I
went into my twenties, I think I caused myself to
get perioral dermatitis because I was using glycolic scrubs, probably
too much, like I think I was using them multiple times.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
A week is better.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
Well.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
I was trying to break down the build up of
the acne right, and I thought I was doing the
right thing. But what I ended up doing was completely
stuffing up my skin barrier. And I caused myself to
get a different condition.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Absolutely, And I think that's a really big misconsumption in
that moisturize is bad for acne pro and skin. In fact,
the right moisturize is brilliant for acne pron skin. It
does several things. The moist environment allows our natural celex
filating enzymes to work better. They can't work in a
dry environment, which is why dry skin just gets dry,
because you get over accumulation of skin cells.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
And we know the cornerstone.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
One of the biggest causes where acne starts is congestion.
If you can't if your skin's not turning over properly,
you'll get more congestion than you get breakouts. Hydrated skin
then also improves the barrier function. And if we use
clever molecules like nice Cinematis, you know, it's my MVP
of life in my skin care. I put in multiple
skins because more is more when it comes to nice
sinamiit It also helps reduce seedm output and it reduces inflammation.

(23:54):
And we know that if we do put moisture into
the skin, it sends a message which we call biofeedback
the sebaceous glands or the oil glands to calm down.
Whereas rest stripping it out, it's sending a message to
the oil glands to replace the oil and overwook the
dough and then we get haphazard celexflalation, breakouts acne. Sometimes
the first thing I start with calming people, is there
simple cleanser, moisturizer two weeks come back. Wow, things are

(24:18):
so better already. I said, yeah, because we're reprogramming the skin.
We're taking it all the complexity. Then we can start
looking at actives or then improvements. But keeping skin calm,
how your cleans is so important. It's so underestimated and moisturizing.
Even just doing those two things twice a day, that's
a big difference.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Before we move too far away from saunas and heat.
I do have a question around botox. So is it
true or not? This is something that I'm trying to
figure out. Botox for me doesn't last, and I've tried
different variants of it. Some people here, like some of
my friends, will say botox last some six months, six
weeks and it is out of my system. Yes, So
I don't know if I'm metabolizing it quickly. I don't

(24:57):
know if sauna and heat, if that's a myth or
not that sauna helps metabolize it. What is the truth
around that.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
That's a great question. It's a very complex answer. And
so whether people develop anybodies to the botox and it
works less we just get a bit of a resistance
to it, not totally resistance. And I do find a
lot of my patient population who've had it regularly over
longer periods of time, the intervals of duration can be shorter.
Certain areas on the face will always wear off quickly

(25:23):
because you don't want to overdo the doses you do
with low doses, like foreheads, they always work because you're
not putting much in there, because you don't want to
put too much because you'll get flat screen TV. You'll
drop your brow down because that's the only elevator. It'll
make the eyes look hooded, and then you can't put
your eye makeup on, and people and patients just hate it.
The other reason is around the eyes starts to work
less because it's not just the muscle pulling, it's the

(25:44):
smile pulling, and then you botox will not fix every
single problem. Botox works much more effectively when the face
is buoyant and plump and youthful, because it doesn't have
to do a lot, and it's really just relaxing those
muscles so that don't pull down and create permanent lines.
In certain areas of overuse, then, as we say descent,
gravitational change, thinning of the tissues, absorption of bones, et cetera,

(26:06):
it can't do as much lifting as it used to be.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
So there are probably.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
Other things anatomically happening as we spend more time on
this planet that may need other modalities and thoughts. It's
often worthwhile looking at changing to a different product or
brand as well. There's a new one introduced to the
market now that is claiming six months. It's a little
bit more painful to inject than the original Botox brand,
but sometimes switching it up can also give you more longevity.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
And it's interesting because I did think, you know, maybe
it's an overuse thing and my body has adapted to it.
But this is crazy that this is coming late to botox.
I didn't get my first botox I think until I
was thirty three or something like that. I think coming
from Port mcquarie, the town that I did, and that
might make people laugh, but I just wasn't exposed to it.
It wasn't in our world. So I feel like at
thirty three is quite late to have come to the table.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
Probably is nowadays, but now the obsession with you know,
Instagram selfies looks and it's become more normalized and you know,
early interventions prevention, but to me around thirties and as
a sweet spot to consider I wouldn't really want to
be seeing patients for their late twenties. I think there
is a lot of things in our society nowadays with

(27:16):
the overwhelming and disproportional influence put on appearance versus who
we are on the inside as well, and then I
think that can have a real negative impact on sense
of self esteem and self worth. There's also another thing
called perception drift, which is big in my industry at
the moment. So we start fixing little problems, little problems
go away, we find a different problem, we focus on that,

(27:38):
we get some feller, we see something else change naturally
in the aging process.

Speaker 5 (27:42):
We go to somebody who says, let's just put in
more feler.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
Then all of a sudden, after period wive, we now
know feelers last incredibly longer than we thought. I mean,
I helped launch a lot of these products, you know,
back in the two thousand and eighth etc. Way back
and going oh yeah, it only last twelve months, maybe
twenty four. So when you saw a change in the
face or whatever were fed by these companies, you thought
put more in. Then they get this whole distortion and
then people lose their perception of what they actually really

(28:06):
look like. And then that's called perception drift, and they
get on this terrible kind of merry go round.

Speaker 5 (28:11):
So often.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
I think nowadays what's trending is literally dissolving a lot
of filler out and sometimes take it out people look
younger and better.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I can put my head up and say that I
was one of them. I had what we called feel
a blindness. I didn't realize my lips got way too big,
way too puffy, and I think, like as I had pekass,
my weight fluctuated a lot too.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
So I got used to.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Seeing my lips the biggest, regardless of what the rest
of my body weight looked like.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
And it really did make a difference.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
And I ended up going to see an injector who
was really honest with me.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
She said, we need to dissolve that.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
I think you've got this what was it called shift.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Perception, perception shift or perception drift.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
But you know what was interesting, keyche is that And
I hope you don't mind me saying this, but it
was a real life conversation we had. I remember you
coming in to work one day and you were like,
I gotta go, I've got my appointment I'm getting my
lips done, and Laura and I had to say something
to you, not in a bad way. We're like, you
don't need them done. What are you talking about? Because
you were like, yes, I absolutely do. And we're like,

(29:06):
but you've got them done that long ago and you're like, yeah,
but they're not right. And we had to sort of say, like,
I don't think you're seeing yourself how you are. And
it was at that exact time that, luckily you went
to an injector that was said, I think you're also
you also have this drift and sometimes you don't see
what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
To yourself absolutely, and I think it might be a
part of the whole. As people get botox for longer
and longer, maybe it does last the same amount of time.
Maybe they're just used to seeing themselves a certain way,
so when it starts to wear off, they're like, oh
my gosh, it's all completely gone. And I think it's
interesting because I guess the time that I started getting
procedures like that, so injectibles, there was this real culture

(29:46):
of preventative you know, get preventative botox. If you get
it done first before you get the wrinkles, you won't
ever get them.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
What's your I guess what's your take on that.

Speaker 4 (29:55):
I think in certain areas that's true, like particularly if
people are chronic frowners. Frowners are a kind of a
learned expression, and some people found a lot, some people
don't found much at all, right, And it's all about
when we're babies, we studied our parents' faces and we
would mimic and imprinted on us. And so I definitively
believe that people become frown as the way their parents
looked at them when they were babies. And then that

(30:15):
habit can also be a stress release. So you're either
a frowner or a grinder, or you can be both. Right,
So we're reprogramming abnormal excessive muscular movement.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
It's a positive.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
And if you do start treating with little bits of
botox that keep those muscles relaxed, you won't get lines.
In contrast, foreheads you need to move for expression.

Speaker 5 (30:36):
They have a function of raising the brow.

Speaker 4 (30:37):
Otherwise you start looking at normal you can't put the
same doses or seeing the frown area. So it's more
about keeping it soft, keeping it natural, and preservation as
much as you can without looking ridiculous, weird or overdoing.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
It trend wise? Do you think that culturally we have
gotten to a place where people are overdoing it.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
I think we've hit a real sticky period with fillers.
I think we're trend away from fillers. I think dissolving
conservative fillers in smaller amounts in the right places, less
frequently is definitely the future forward for sure. And I think,
you know, we're bringing back nineties fashion. I think we're

(31:15):
bringing back the natural look of the nineties, the supermodels
who were just all beautiful with nothing done to them.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
We're definitely moving away from the filler trend for sure,
and I think that that is because of new studies
saying that hey, it lasts a lot longer, it can
actually be detrimental to having filled out your skin, and
then when it does dissolve, eventually it fil fatigue.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
Yeah, filatigue.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
I think it's a great thing. I think it's great.
We're going back to the natural trend.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
And we've seen a lot of celebrities and make a
lot of public mistakes unfortunately. I mean, I don't like
it when I see colleagues kind of all celebrities apart
because they've got a tough job, you know, and it's
just you know, what's wrong with their face?

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Can we talk about at home equipment? And I say
equipment devices like I have a lad light, one of
the masks that you tie around your face and you
use at home. Obviously it's not as good as if
you went in. It's not as strong. What is your
thought on like at home little skin needling rollers and
these lead lights and things like that.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
Okay, well, what you can do at home will never
replace the quality of what you're going to get from
a clinic. And the majority of the beneficial scientific studies
are based on equipment that sits in clinics, not on
that at home devices. They're like an extrapolation of those
ideas put into a cheaper, user friendly at home variety,
like piggybacking off the hardcore science that's done on the
clinical models. Right, So, which is hard to then say

(32:26):
how much these things are actually giving your benefit? Do
I think there's harm? Which is you know, what's a
code of conduct as adoptor do no harm. I don't
think they're doing you harm, but how much they're doing
it's very hard to say.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
It might be doing harm to your bank account?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
That's right, taking more withdrawals rather than deposits, and the
bank account absolutely well.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I'd go so far as to say the reason people
are doing it is because of the bank account. I
think that there is a very big difference in having
a lesser strength at home face mask than there is
if you're going to do consecutive in clinic application.

Speaker 5 (32:56):
Then there's the other thing, a bit like feeler. Do
you need it?

Speaker 4 (32:58):
Like if your skincare is good, using SPF every day
and you're doing all these other things, is it providing
additional benefit?

Speaker 5 (33:04):
I think that's a question.

Speaker 4 (33:06):
I think if it's making you relax and you get
it routined, you know, mental strells, meditate way you're under it,
that's a good thing. Rollers are quite good in the
fridge of people who wake up and they get intermittent
collections of a demo or puffy eyes. They can be
really helpful to get that temporary swelling down the mornings.
I don't think they're going to do really much more
for you. Those glasshoe things probably a fancy way to

(33:26):
give a face massage. It's definitely not going to ward
off impending sagging and gel development and neck development all
those kind of things, and it won't replace things in
the future like surgical modalities. None of these are going
to give you skin tightening or anything like that. But
are they nice little rituals to do that just make
you feel good about yourself and your life. Yeah. I
probably wouldn't roll it with a needle. I mean I'm

(33:48):
not a big skin needling fan or micro needling fan.
I've seen it do more harm than good. And if
you're truly interested in addressing certain skin problems and particularly
in rejuvenation for college and etc. There are far more
superior modalities. I had a skin needling machine that you know,
everybody promised the world, and to be honest, we treated
all these conditions and all this stuff, and we really

(34:08):
found it hard to think are we making a benefit
for these patients or is it creating harm?

Speaker 5 (34:12):
I got rid of it.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
What are some of the issues that can come from
skin needling.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
It's traumatic, so it can actually create more inflammation. It
could exacerbate things like rosea. Sure a lot of people
who are using it for acne and atney scars, it
can make acne worse and for the acney scars, depending
on what you're using it may not be the right
modality to fix those anyway, can compromise barrier function, it
can stimulate things like parificial dermatitis, and it can also
just be a big expensive withdrawal on your bank account

(34:37):
without providing the benefit at three hundred to six hundred
treatment that you could be putting into something like CO
two Rbian lasers BBL that we will definitively give you
an improvement in your skin longevity.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
That is also a broadband light. Not a Brazilian, but
Liot oh yeah, no, immediately went to that. I know
mostels brains will to go and get a Brazilian, but
you are good. Thank you. I've had a lot, She's
definitely had a lot of skins.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
You have to come for a playdate with my fifteen
base energy of based devices.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
I will one hundred percent. I will come for something
because I'm still deep in and I'm not afraid to
say it. I know there is a big trend for
aging gracefully. I don't want to personally like right now
in my life, and maybe down the track I will,
But for me, my confidence in things comes from feeling
good right now. I'm happy to be saying, hey, I
want to do a laser so that my skin is redooved.

(35:26):
And I'm not talking about plastic surgery like I haven't
done that. I'm just talking about, you know, the idea
of wanting to maintain useful skin.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Well.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Absolutely, to me, skin fitness, skin health is the same
as total body fitness body health. I always said to
my patients, like I said, you know, it's great, we
can do treatments for what using home has to marry.
You know, should be simple, highly effective and work. And
then you have treatments, then give you the elevations, the
quick elevations, and you got to sustain. It's like going
to the gym and eating McDonald's, so it almost talk

(35:54):
to each other. And why do we go to the
gym and whatever? It's prevention. It's prevention the decaments of
being on this planet for decades longer of not getting
those problems. And I see maintenance treatments and early intervention
prevention as preventing getting skin problems. It's not just about
having youthful, lovely looking, it's high functioning skin. These things

(36:15):
also reduce our incidents of skin cancer. They upregulate mechanisms
in the skin that get rid of sinescent, sleepy dormant
cells that happen with skin aging then create inflammation and
create skin cancer, et cetera. So there's so many preventative
biological benefits for early intervention with these treatments beyond just
the aesthetic nature beyond.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
I really want to talk about the year that we've
had in terms of SPF. I think in Australia, I
guess the veil has really dropped on different brands of
sun protection, you know, not having as much SPF as
what we were told they would and going through different
regulatory bodies. What's happening in the SPF world and what
are your takes on different types of sunscreens in terms

(36:56):
of like mineral or chemicals.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Right phrase, like the serums.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
What's the best?

Speaker 5 (37:02):
Huge industry?

Speaker 4 (37:03):
So I've been formulating with the labs that Choice magazine
chose to work with because they are the most robust, stringent, legitimate,
They stick to the standards And the problem is a
lot of these other testing overseas facilities do not stick
to standards and they had fraudulent people involved with them.
We knew all the Broughty labs way back in twenty eighteen.
AMA was the group in America. A lot of those

(37:23):
people kind of jump ship to the group now in
the UK called PCR.

Speaker 5 (37:27):
I think it's called Yeah.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
And the problem is that they were not doing the tests,
but yet the TJA allowed them to be approved to test.
And I've spent twenty years formulating what I think is
some of the perfect mineral sbfs globally. We've got an
invisible one coming out in jan which is amazing. It's
fifty it's sink only, it's gem pioneering, it's esthetic, it's
non whin yet it goes in. It's really hard because

(37:49):
mineral ingredients are a lot more complicated to manufacture with
than the chemical actives because the minerals are higher molecular way.
The skin topography is like if you look at micros
scopically mountains and valleys, You've got to get that sustained
in a way it sits on the surface, not SINC
or SBF drops off. Then if you put too much
of it in, it's whitening. It's really complex. Beyond just

(38:10):
saying that it's twenty five percent. Therefoot's going to work
the vehicles equally is important, and I've.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
Failed brilliantly expensively.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
I've spent about half a million dollars in research over
the last twenty years to get the perfect sbfs, and
I'm published in sunscreen Allergies. So for me, minerals are
substances for sensitive skin suffers. They're going to be a
better choice for them. Now I'll go into the industry
in a second. That's not to say chemical filters are
still good, right, So they're still good. I just like
minerals better. They're never going to be allergenic. They can't

(38:39):
create skin allergies. They often see a little bit better
under makeup because a lot of the minerals that are
in mineralist sparef also sit in makeup, so they can
integrate quite nicely and they are not going to agitate
sensitive skin. And mineral based sbfs are recognized by the
Melanoma Institute to be the best for children. So for
me as a derm, that really fits with my core
value structures, so that mineral does its job, yes does,

(39:00):
but chemicals do too. Now the issue with chemicals is
you can get very rare, very rare what's called photoallergic
contact dermatitis. So not just allergic contact when you go
in the sun creates a reaction and you can get
a rash basically in blisters and all those things not
common like most of the field, as we choose, it's
low incidences, but they can occur. And that's also it's
a dynamic state of constantly finding out these things. Endocrime

(39:23):
destructors will not I mean overall the events to just
date is they are safe, are effective, so there's still
a good choice. I just like minerals better for my
own personal reasons and being a dermatologist.

Speaker 5 (39:35):
But they're both good.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
What we need to look at is and I'm actually
pushing that we should have to declare where the product
is tested. And I think no sunscreen in Australia should
be allowed to be sold in Australia unless it's tested
in Australian facility that the TJ can directly directly monitor
and have control over. How can we have control over
these fraudulent people in different countries We can't. And then

(39:57):
it was an absolute gangbuster booming industry post COVID where
all these fancy pants fashionable brands have gone to big
manufacturers or bought the same formula because its economies of
scale and stick their label on it and I know
the lab, I know what went on and all of that,
and like, and I literally was going back to my
guys at Europeans, going why can't I do this? Why
am I family? And he said, because they're not legitimate.

(40:20):
I've known for a decade. And then of course you
can't say anything. I've tried to advise this. A few
others I know going to come under and I've said
to my colleagues, don't sell this, don't advise it. It's
going to be pulled off the market because I understand
the formulation because I've been working with formulators. I've worked
in photobiology lab testing facilities. I know it backwards. So
it's really simple to regulate should be tested in Australian

(40:42):
facility before salt here. Then the TJA can be arm's
length all over. That simple, because it's you know, most
of these people are creating brands, not because they're really
concerned about patients or people are consumers. It's consumerism and
it's economies of scale.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's so scary as a consumer to think that you
are doing the right thing.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
Yes, it's deceptive and misleading conduct. These brands are deceptive
and misleading conduct like if I put my name to
something that was proven to be wrong, I'd be on
the front page the Sitting Morning Heralds because I've got credibility,
I've got qualifications, I've got accountability, and I've got twenty
five years of professional experience and i sit in the
top of my field globally.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's because you're held to a higher standard.

Speaker 5 (41:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
But then if I, as a dermatologist talk about sunscreen
as a doctor, I can't talk about sunscreen because I'm
a dermatologistm a doctor. I understand the science, like I
just think it's ludicrous. It's just so conflicting and crazy.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Does the mechanism that you use the sunscreen in making difference,
for example, like a cream, a serum, or a spray?

Speaker 4 (41:39):
A great question. Application is everything? This whole aerosol spray
thing I just think is hysterical because you know, people go,
I love it because I feel like I'm wearing nothing
at all because you are. And this is something really
absolutely scientifically. The cray cray I cannot believe these haven't
been banned so in the testing facility. And it's not

(42:00):
the skin types, it's not the skin colors, it's not
the standards. Of course, these other labs never executed the
standards properly. If you execute the standards, whether the skin's
are different colors on the ten people, you've got to
do it.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
It doesn't matter right.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
In fact, paler people are better because they'll burn more quickly,
so they'll have lower thresholds to test, so the SPF
has to be stronger. It's not the going pink. So really,
if we're testing on paler people, of course it's going
to be better for darker people because darker people got
more natural protection. When it comes to aerosolized and spray
on spfs, it's tested in the liquid formula before it's

(42:33):
put the aerosol in the can. They don't test in
the applications, so it's going on a much higher.

Speaker 5 (42:38):
Level to get the tick of approval.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
Then it goes into a can, so what the consumer
is using is totally different what it passed.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
On, which seems crazy that they can even test it
on that totally.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
I've been kind of lobbying to say these should be banned,
like why the only person that's doing a favor for
is big farmer who makes a ton of it and
buys in again into the belief system of the can
Assuman not educating, which is what doctors have to do,
which is really hard. People don't like change their beliefs, right.
But if marketer is combined to beliefs and give consumers,
you make quick sales, you make quick money. Education is costly,

(43:11):
it takes a long time, it's a lot of effort,
and it's not about money making. It's about doing the
right thing for the population.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
I'd like to finish with two quite tangible things that
people can can go away and actually do. And the
first one is if somebody comes to you, because this
is most of our listeners and says, hey, I just
want to revamp my skin. I just want to feel
like it's tighter, get rid of some skin damage, like overall,

(43:37):
because a lot of people don't know exactly what they
want to do, they just know that they want to
look better. What is the laser, the generic laser that
you would recommend for people in that situation. Because I
want people to take something away from this where they're like, oh,
I can actually go and ask for this.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yes, okay, So one of my go tos that pretty
much works for everybody, But you've got to be careful
if you are very darker skin type is BBL, not
Brazilian butt lift, but broad band light laser, which is
another version of IPL in the same category. So intense
poult light that picks up different abnormalities in the skin
activates the antiaging genes. Isn't too much downtime can help
reduce inflammation.

Speaker 5 (44:11):
Pigment sun damage one or two treatments.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Great place to start, suitable for most people, and minimal downtime,
not too much swilling, not too much puffing. Got pigment
goes dark, grainyly comes out of the skin over about
a week, like little tiny bits of my low. So
that's a beautiful and it can also be used on neck, chest, deck, hands, arms.
Great place I start a lot of patients, so that's
probably one I would say great go to, particularly in

(44:36):
Australia where we have such high environmental damage and let's
face it, the environment and sun is ninety percent the
biggest cause of every single age sign in our skin,
which is why the right SPF every single day is
essential in this country. That's why I think BBL slash
IPL is a good starting point.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
BBL is actually something that I did, That's why I
know about it that it was one of my things
I did leading up to my wedding. Because a lot
of people want to know what my pre wedding skin
care was.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I did that.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
The second thing I want to ask you is if
you could just take one product, one ingredient in your
skin care that is your non negotiable And I know
that's probably hard to ask, but I'm assuming it's the
near cinema for you.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
Well, it is because Nicecinami works on every key skin concern.
It upgradulates seramides, which is one of the best natural
moisturizing in your skin. It reduces inflammation, it's an antioxidant,
It possibly can be beneficial to stop glycation.

Speaker 5 (45:25):
In the skin.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
It's even regulates it barriers, strengthens, it prevents spread of pigmentation,
and it's good to protect mitochondria and DNA which then
leads into aging in sun damage. So it's a real
rounder and you can't overdo it. So but then it's
very hard for me. It's like, what's your favorite child? Yeah,
Like because then on the other side.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Every parents, they all have I was not in it.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
They different things biologically, but I only have a handful.
Like I'm not into trends. I like try and trust
it right. You want things because at the end of
the day, blueberries is always a blue Bree's always got
great antioxidants. It's going to be good for you with
you're ten, twenty, thirty, forty fifteen, it's still going to
be good for you in one hundred years. And there
is fundamental, scientifically proven formulations and ingredients that are just

(46:08):
a go to, and that's AHA's and Beachase so Ha's.
I love lactic over glycolic, mendelic totery, but it mixes best.
It's what we do in our clarify BCHA shove that
in there as well.

Speaker 5 (46:17):
Cel silic.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
Put it all in one, cut down on clutter, not
too many things. They're essential for cell turnover, fading out, pigment,
decongesting pores, giving radiance, and also lactic is better choice
than glycolic because it's better for sensitive skin. You want
to have good moisturizers in your skin, things like glycerines
probably a better moisturizer than hylauronic acid. Hate to break
it to your STIs HA is great in combination, but

(46:39):
it's probably more trendy than an HA serum is put
it not something I would ever invest in. I just
have a really good moisturizer, but I would invest in
a good HA beachase serum. And then things like vitamin
C in B three, a powerful skin brightening antioxidant and
barrier building ingredients. So just make sure you're not overstripping
when you cleanse. And then finally, sunscreen, sunscreen sunscreen sbof

(47:04):
is your BFF every day for your face. I say
like two fingers, then two applications, because we all have
a tendency to underply. If you underply with your SBF,
the protection drops off quite rapidly because it's an exponential
dose delivery curve. And then if you're really serious and
sensitive skin, probably minerals of a chemical. Make sure Australian

(47:25):
tested UVA UVB and that's it.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
What about a retinol, Yes, vitamin A is excellent.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
Also, being a bit of a purist, I like prescriptive
vitamin A because the molecule in the prescription is the
molecule that's tested. So retinol retinaw written out, I'd all
have to convert to retinoic acid to actually bind to
the skin receptors to work. The prescription one is retinoc acid.
The problem with the over the counter ones because you
can't sell retinoic acid over the counter, it's just a
TJA regulation, is that you don't really know how stable

(47:53):
they are or how much of it gets converted to
the molecule that does the work. So why would't you
just buy the molecule that works? Right, It's cheaper than
most of the over the counters. You just use it
a couple of nights a week. You don't have to sandwich.
It is put on after night cream, peace size all
over the face Monday, Wednesday, Friday nights. I find none
of my patients get irritation on. You need it three
nights a week, prescriptions, really cost effective, lust forever, and

(48:15):
it works.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
That's us so much, really really wonderful information. Thank you
for breaking down a lot of the myths about skincare.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Thank you for changing my confidence.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Not breaking down the skin barrier, absolutely, but we did
break down We did break down the SPF industry as well,
so that was cool you.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I think it's really important.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
It's a conversation that I know a lot of you,
a lot every single one of my friends has been to.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
About trust anymore.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
It'sah and I think that it also it makes you
feel a lack of confidence in any of it, So
it's good to know where you can find that safe
secure actually tested here models and types of sunscreen.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
I think that would be I was speaking with Choice
Magazine because I did make some suggestions to them, and
I just said, really, in your conversations with the TJA,
I think they should just regulate. It needs to be
past testing here. Like, here's a question for you. I
think this has a bit gaslight in a way. If
you are an Australian contract manufacturer, and you're an Australian brand,

(49:09):
and you're manufacturing in Australia, why don't you test in Australia.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
What are you hiding?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
It's too easy to get a no too, It's too
hard to get a pass.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Well, doctor NC, thank you so much For anyone who
would like some more information.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
We're going to share links to.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Your website which will have all of your practice and
your skincare linked on it and your social.

Speaker 5 (49:27):
Media spein Absolute clutchup had a great time.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Thank you for having you