The real life Martha from Baby Reindeer and that Piers Morgan interview

Hey Lifers,
Today didn't quite go to plan! Laura's car broke down on the way to work so Producer Keeshia is filling in for her.
Britt got ... locked in a sauna. She quite literally was stuck in there waiting for Wim Hof to finish his meditative ice bath!
How do you feel about being in the background of someone's video at the gym? 
Keeshia found herself in this predicament and felt really uncomfortable. 

Then we have a chat about Piers Morgan's interview with the woman who is being labelled as the 'real Martha from Baby Reindeer'.
We question:

• Whether interviews like this are exploitative and cross ethical boundaries
• Whether she has the right to defend herself
• Who is 'more' in the wrong; Netflix, Richard Gadd, Piers Morgan or the alleged stalker?
• Who owns a story?
• Whether it changes your opinion of the show

You can watch the entire interview here

You can listen to our episode with Michael Theo from love on the spectrum here

You can watch us on Youtube

If you have an question please send it on it to life uncut podcast on Instagram

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Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xx

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands
were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders
past and present, Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land.
This episode was recorded on gadigal Land. Hi, guys, and

(00:23):
welcome back to another episode of Life un Cut. I'm
Brittany and I am a Keisha feeling in for Laura
this morning. Yeah, so we had a bit of a
chaotic morning, a hurricane of a morning. So Laura won't
be on the podcast today. She didn't quite make it
in and produce. Akisha is feeling in for her. Texts
have been shooting around left, front and center. Keisha, what's happened?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
You know how we always talk about like how we
thrive in chaos and all of us are really chaotic.
So this morning, I just want to first read you
guys the message that Laura sent me this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
So Laura picks me up every day for work. It's
is fucking best leasure on the way.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah, I'm somewhat on the way, but also it saves
me a lot of times, so she's usually on time
to the minute, right.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
She said, traffic is bad.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Hunt just coming through near Bondi Junction shops and I said,
no worries, I've got coffees in hand. I'm ready in
our spot. She wrote, it's the bloody rain. Sorry, and
she was sending this through her like car serie.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
This next message from me says, honestly, please don't apologize.
You're my boss and you pick me up for work.
There is never a day that I don't acknowledge that
that is really fucking kind of you, and it saves
me a lot of time on public transport. So I
get into the car. It was within six minutes of
us being in the car together. We're kind of doing
the debrief of how the weekend was, you know, Mother's Day.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I spent it with my family, Laura spent it with
her family.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
And we start going up a hill, like just slightly
upper hill at the entrance of one of the busiest
tunnels in Sydney.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
It's the Cross City Tunnel for anyone who's familiar with it,
and it's like peak hour. We're talking about eight am
on the dot, like on on a Monday morning in
the main tunnel, Cross City Tunnel. Laura kind of just goes,
oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
And I looked at her in a hand you know
when you kind of like lift your hands off of
the steering wheel, and I.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Was like, what's happening?

Speaker 2 (02:05):
She said, my car just just turned off and it's
flashing up with like you know, the alarms, like the
whole like something's wrong, something's wrong.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
She's like, my engine has just stopped working. Oh my god.
So we're in one of the two lanes.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
We're in the right hand lane going into the Cross
City Tunnel, and her car has just turned off.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Does it have an alarm itself, like an automatic hazard
alarm or do you still have to put the hazards on?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I put the hazards on because I think Laura was
kind of trying to figure out what the hell was
going on, Like no hand anywhere, and there's people behind
us beeping anyway. So we've actually come to a complete
stop and we're in this process of like what do
we do?

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Do we try and like turn it off and go again.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
But if we get into the tunnel, that's really dangerous
to be broken down because there's so many curve it's
an eighty zone, like there was so many things going
on anyway, So Laura's like, no, we're just gonna stop here.
We're gonna call the NRMA and we're probably going to
need to get towed.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
All of these around us are like beeping us as
though we just thought it was a really nice place
to park the car. Kisses me off, because what do
you think has happened? Do you think that the people
in the car are like, yeah, you know what, I'm
gonna fuck this tunnel up. It's peak hour on a
Monday morning. I'm just going to stop my car, like
the car has broken down. So what the person already

(03:19):
feels like a piece of shit? What is beeping, like
continuous beeping going to do in that situation? It was so.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Chaotic and you know that feeling where you're like, I
don't know, Like we couldn't get out of the car
because there was no walkway on the side, Like.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
It was just hazard right, we had the hazards on.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I need to like if we were sitting there just
in the middle of the road, stopped without hazards on,
I would understand that people would be like, what are
you doing?

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Anyway?

Speaker 2 (03:43):
This lovely lady in the tow truck for the TMS
came and got the car and he was VICKI. We
got in the car, got in like the tow truck car,
and we got dragged to the fish markets.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
And so we got out at the fish market.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Fish markets, I'd get some brim for dinner, and real
sited this situation because it smelt really fishy and it
was just a fishy Monday morning.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
So Laura is currently She's like, I'm gonna take you
to the safest space side the fish market on a
Monday morning. There's no one there.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
So Laura's trying to set like kind of sort out
the mechanic side of the car. Right now, I got
an uber to work. It was just out of chaos.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Oh we're here. Well you made it, and I'm glad
because we are going to put the episode out tomorrow
because otherwise we wouldn't have had an episode for you guys.
Do you know what's so funny That exact thing I
cannot script it, that happened to me many years ago
in the same place, just before the tunnel. My car
just stopped as I was driving. It just stopped in
the middle the road. And I'll never forget that moment.

(04:41):
And you reminded me when you said Laura just didn't
Her hands were going and she didn't really comprehend. I like,
put my houses on, called the NROM and then I
was like, obviously, the next logical thing to do is
call my dad. My dad lives five hours away. I
called my dad. It doesn't matter how old you get,
it doesn't matter how old you are. My dad He's like, hey, possum,
what's up? And I was like, Dad, just quickly, my

(05:03):
car's broken down. And he's like okay. And I was
like in the tunnel, like this is really bad. He's like, okay,
well have you called the NMA And I was like yep.
He's like, you hasn't done. I was like yep. He's
like are you in the car? I said yep. He's like,
I'm not quite sure what you want me to do.
He just wanted you to do the checklist, he said,
I don't know what. He's like, okay, so what are
you calling me for? And I was like, well, I
don't know. You're my dad. When I'm in a crisis,

(05:25):
like call my dad. He's like, okay, possible, let me
know how. It's like nothing he could do, but it's
that automatic like something's wrong. I'm gonna call me the
person that you know has always been there.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's when you need an adulty or adult, like, even
though you're supposed to be an adult, you need someone
who's better at adulting and more experienced adulting. And I
think that it's kind of it's kind of fitting because
Laura was actually very cool, calm and collected.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think I was the one who was a little
bit more like. Oh. I think because her car's broken
down many times, she's like, this is a blip on
the radar. Now she knows, she knows the protocol. Its
probably time she gets a new one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well, speaking of adultier adults having mothers to every single mum,
and our hearts are feeling for people who have different
situations of their either motherhood stories or perhaps this was
your first year or one of the years that you're
missing your mom on Mother's Day, and I hope that
you were.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Able to spend the weekend with the people that you
love the most. We're able to do anything. Your parents
are quite far away. Well, I am a dog mum,
So it was Delilah and myself did delight liver in
your breakfast in bed. She attempted too she ate it
on the way, so I didn't get it. My family's yeah,
five six hours away, so I couldn't get up there
this weekend. So I did a lot of FaceTime in them,

(06:33):
but otherwise I just me and the Squidlet What did
you get up to?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I actually went out to Newcastle, that's where all of
my family are, and I had the most family filled weekend.
It's not lost on me that I am probably the
only thirty year old I know that still has both
of my grandmothers and their friends. They've been friends for
like sixty years. It's pretty amazing cute. So I got
to see both of them. But one of them has
had kind of like deteriorating health for a while, and

(06:57):
I think I just had that moment of just felt
such deep guilt where I.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Was like, I live two and a half hours away,
why don't I see them more?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
It truly and it made me feel so so I
know that we like I know, life is busy. Life
is busy, and we all try to fit as much
as we possibly can in. I talked to my grandma
on the phone really often, and she is the most healthy,
nearly ninety year old that i've evern met like she's
so with it, absolutely knows what's going on, and I
love chatting with her. Sometimes I've found that when I'm

(07:26):
talking with my Nan, I can feel that she gets
a little bit upset because she'll forget certain things, like
she forgot that I was in a relationship and that
kind of thing. But it was really fun to tell
her all over again.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
You're like, Nan, it took me like eight years to
get in this relationship. Don't just forget it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
So I just had a family filled weekend and I'm
fucking exhausted. A shout out to all the mums because
I was woken up by my nephews who are four
and two.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
I think it was the five point thirty the first morning.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
I was saying that six o'clock the next and I
was like, wow, this is one of those moments where I've.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Been thinking like maybe I'm nearly ready for this and
be like, oh, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
No, it's like, okay, there will be sacrifices that I
will need to make, and sleep is one of them.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
And it's like this internal battle. I did have like
a very wholesome weekend just with Dahlilah, but I nearly
died this weekend. I had a near death experience.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now I break down at the front of the tunnel
when you were worried that cars were going to ram
up the ass.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
No, it's worse. This would be a worse way to go.
I got locked in a sauna. I got locked in
a sauna. Pardon yeah, And it was pretty.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
This is why I don't This is why I'm a
little adverse to saunas.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
No, it wasn't a sauna's fault. Okay, hear me out.
So I am in my sauna era. You guys know
that I have a sauna across the road from my house.
It's the most convenient thing I have ever seen. So
I'll sometimes be like on the lounge, I'll be like,
I'm gonna have a sauna, and I'm there in one minute.
It's amazing. Anyway, they have ice bars as well. So
I ducked over to the sauna because it was a
really rainy weekend and I was in there alone. It

(08:52):
was not a peak hour, there was no one else there.
And because there's like two big saunas, four ice bars,
it's amazing. So I'm in a sauna and then this
other person comes to join me. This guy. No, it's great,
it's a huge one. I don't care. But what happens
is people max out their sauna time, then they go
into the ice bath for as long as they can.
And I've been trying to work up my sauna time

(09:14):
and it was so hot and I was at my
absolute limit, like I was getting to about twenty to
twenty one minutes, which at this heat is a lot.
What temperature is it, do you know? I don't know, Okay,
just holds like hot as far yeah, fucking lava temperature. Anyway,
gets to the point if you know that you have
a limit, and then you've got to get out straight

(09:34):
away because you're like, well, I don't feel good, I
feel sick, I feel dizzy. So the guy had gotten
out and gotten into the ice bath a minute before
I wanted to get out, And what he had done
is the iceba's right in front of the sauna. He
got into the ice bath, took the lid off and
sort of like put it down the side, popped in,
put his headphones in and started to meditate out in
the ice bath. And then I tried to get out,

(09:55):
and the lid to the sauna had wedged and locked
me into the sauna, and I was like shaking the door,
and I was like, oh my god, I'm stuck in
the sauna. And I started to beat on the window
at him, and he had his headphones blasting and he
was meditating so he couldn't hear me. And I was
smashing the door as hard as I could be. So
I was like, I'm so fucking hot. He does nothing,

(10:18):
And I was like, Okay, it's cool. Ice bars. People
max out two three minutes, right. I was like, my
lip is quivering. This is actually my worst notemare I know.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I cannot think of that or being buried alive, equal
be locked like equal.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
I think Verydali is worse because it'd be harder to
dig out. But I felt like I was in this
moment where I was like I could probably run as
fast as I can of throw my body at that
and smashing the bass.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Did you have anything in there that could break the
emergency glass breaking saunas?

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Why is there not no good thought? That's a brilliant
idea anyway. So I was like, people max out at
a couple of minutes in the ice bar, It's fine.
So I was like I'm just gonna wait a couple
minutes anyway, old mate, fucking Iceman Hoffman. He's like, I'm
gonna go five fist. Yes, that's what he was. He
was like, oh sorry, I was going for the ultimate.

(11:06):
He's like, I'm really training for the icepod. I was like, well,
I'm about to die. So fifteen minutes smashing. He opens
his eyes and I don't know what he must and
I'm like, melt him down the screen. I was like,
help me. So he gets up and he's like, oh
my god, sorry what happened? And I was like, what happened?
You locked me in here? What do you mean what happened? Yeah?

(11:26):
So yeah, slight exaggeration, but I'm pretty sure I was
close to death. That was my sword. That was my
sauna experience. He needs a punishment, he needs to be bare.
It was pretty cute.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
No, sorry, sorry, he's putting other people's lives at risk
in the sauna. Do you know I actually had a
situation happened at the gym last weekend that now that
we're talking about Sauna's icepas gym situation, and I kind of
want to ask you how you.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Feel about it.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
The gym so I was, so my boyfriend I went
to the gym together, which you know, we sometimes go
and he'll go do his own thing. Oh we are
very said in the gym, like I'll go do my thing,
he'll go do his.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
You're not that couple that like, you know, how one
stands up and the other one puts their legs around
the waist and the juice sit ups on the crutch.
I'd literally rather die in this. I'd actually rather be
buried alive than be that couple.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
So I got a text from him, and often I'll
put my phone on do not disturb because when I'm
working out, I've got headphones in and I'll have a
podcast playing, and I don't like it how the headphones
read out notifications and I don't know how to.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Turn it off.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
I know you can, but I don't know how to do.
So I've just like, I just put it on do
not disturb, play on. He eventually comes over to me
and he's like.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Have you got my text?

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And I was like, oh, no, why, and so he's like,
just read them and you'll see, So don't just tell me.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Well, there was a reason he couldn't.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
So I opened up my phone and from fifteen minutes before,
he'd messaged me saying, Hey, can you see that person
behind you filming? Just letting you know, like you're well
and truly in the camera lens, like the view of
the camera.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I kind of looked around and there was this girl
and she seemed to be filming her partner doing all
different types Like I it's just so unaware of it
because I just like to keep to myself at the gym.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I don't like to get in anyone's way.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Like anyway, I was looking at her and well and
truly I was like, in the background of so much
of this content.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Imagine you're just like picking your nose picking up Wedgie's well.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
To be honest, I got really, like, almost irrationally angry
about it. Really, I don't know why I felt so,
like for someone who's so much of it's not like
I'm a private person, like I talk about my literal
sex life on a podcast that goes out to one
hundred thousand people, you know, Like, it's not as though
I'm someone who really values my privacy and doesn't want
my image online or like.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
But you've made that choice to do it, you know,
which is dis where it was like, you come on
here in a safe environment, you're you know, you're ready,
you know you what you're gonna say. You're in control,
so it's different.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
I just really hated it, and I almost got me
to the point where I was like, Okay, if she
does it again, am I going to go and say
something to her?

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Like what do I have the right to say in
that situation? I was like, I don't want you filming me.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
While I'm working out, especially when I didn't know about it.
I don't care people filming themselves at the gym. If
that's what you want to do, cool, but I didn't
like the fact that everyone around had no choice in
the matter. I thought about it and I was like,
if she does it again, I think I'll just say, hey,
can you please make sure that, like, I'm not in
the background of this, because like I don't want to be.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
But then she didn't get her phone out again, and
so I was like, great, I'm like I.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Kind of wanted you to say that at least you
were more aware of it, and maybe next time she
would come in and ask.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
I'm in two minds about it. I totally understand that
we live it in a day and age where we
live online and a lot of our businesses are online,
especially people in the fitness industry. I don't mind people
filming content for whatever reason, but you probably need to
be a little bit more self aware in that environment
and not just have everyone in it, especially if like
someone's you know, someone's behind you bending over doing dead lifts.

(14:49):
Whatever it is, like, it's irrelevant, like a pig. That's
the real reason. She's like, have you seen the sweat
on me?

Speaker 2 (14:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (14:55):
But I think I look at it in the way
that you go to the beach on the weekend people
are allowed to film there. The number of videos that
you are in in this world and you have no
idea about just being in the background of people's down
upon die We're going for a walk tourist destination wherever.
Like people, you're always in videos, and think of how
many times you pan around on a walk and how

(15:15):
many people are in your videos inadvertently. So imagine if
someone walked up to you at the beach when you're
filming the view and was like, excuse me, delete that,
I'm in it? Get it. I get that the environment
is different, and maybe they need to be a bit
more self aware, but also I'm like it's it's sort
of where we live now.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Like yeah, but like what alternative does that? I mean,
do you just have to do I just have to
accept it? Or do I just have to start working
out home? I mean these options feel kind of you need.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
To go home because of this. There are plenty of
gyms that ban people from filming because they had too
many influences coming in.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
And just fucked it for everyone else.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Well, I think they were taking not just that they
were filming, but when you're filming an exercise, it takes
you longer to do the exercise right, So everyone's like,
get the off the BSET machine, Like I want to
work out. It's like it's take them too long. So
maybe that's where it's going to go. Maybe people just
gonna blanket ban people. But then that's sad because there
are plenty of people that rely on that for their
fitness businesses. I did go and see this weekend Stephen

(16:16):
Kamoss So Stephen who I went into the I'm a Celebrity,
Get Me out Here Jungle with Steven who's going to
be on the podcast very soon. He's the comedian from
the UK. If you didn't watch the show, and if
you didn't watch the show, why joke. But he did
a stand up show this past weekend and I went
to support him as a friend and like a jungle buddy.
And look, I know that he's a comedian by trade,

(16:38):
so I was like, he'll probably be funny. But having
said that, there are plenty of comedians that are not funny,
like there are there are you name them, listen them
for us? Well, I don't remember because they were that unfunny,
but there are. And what I mean by that is
maybe they're not your sense of humor. I didn't know
what to think about Stephen because I'd never seen any
of his content, but I knew I liked him as
a human anyway, I went with Ellie in trist and

(16:59):
from the show, it has to be one of my
favorite stand up shows that I have ever seen. And
I'm not just saying that because I know him. I
laughed from the moment he came on until the very end.
He was brilliant. John O, who works with us now,
he was also there. Did you also love it? Yeah?
He got double thumbs up. He's yeah, he's shy, so yeah,
I'm just recommending it because I do know he has

(17:21):
some other shows here in Australia. I think he's still
got a few left. So if you get the chance
to go, he's well worth it. And if you are
one of about UK listeners, because I know we've got a
bunch of you as well. He's always playing around the
UK as well, so that's my recommendation. He was so
fucking funny.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Speaking of comedians that I personally didn't find all that funny.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Richard gadd Baby Reindeer, Wow, it has been a journey
with Baby Reindeer.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
A couple of weeks ago, while you were in the Jungle,
Laura and I spoke about Baby Reindeer on the podcast
and I had to put my hand up and say, look,
I think I maybe in the minority here.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I only watched half of the show, really did not
enjoy it. So you didn't finish it?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, I got up to I think it was the
fourth episode. It was the episode that things got very dark.
I don't like watching content that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable,
like it's just how I.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
I'm not one of these people who listens to true crime.
It's just not my vibe. So I turned it off.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
And I spoke about it on the podker, I even
posted in the Facebook group, and essentially the synopsis of
the responses I got were two things. One was that
I was uncultured swine and that I didn't get it.
And two, and this is what I thought was really interesting.
The main thing that people said to me was, did
you realize it was his own story? It's a true
story of his own experience, And I thought it was

(18:40):
so incredible of him to be so honest, so open,
and so vulnerable sharing his story that publicly. And did
you know that I saw at the start that it
was based on a true story.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Sorry, I saw that it was a true story. That
was the difference in what I was expecting. I didn't
know it was his story, So it did add a
bit of a layer of complexity when I was like,
oh wow, okay, I didn't understand that.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I thought he was playing someone else's story. Yeah, he
completely It's all him. So I felt similarly. I know
Laura recommended the show on here, and I also know
it is the most viewed Netflix show in the world,
so Laura's not the only person recommending Grab Breaking Laura.
It's still number one, still sitting in a number one
on Netflix. I mean, you didn't watch the rest of it, keish,

(19:22):
so like I pushed through it, and it does explain
it a bit, but I was so deep in why
are you letting this happen? Like why are you encouraging this?
Why are you engaging? Why an't you walking away? Like
she keeps coming back because you are leaving these doors open.
And that really made me angry. But when I watched
the last half, he got into more of the complexity

(19:43):
about the feelings and the relationships that you end up
almost forming with somebody that you know is not right,
but it's a relationship only to the two of you
have and can understand, and he explained that a lot more,
and so overall I got heavily sucked into the series.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, from everything that everyone kind of described after, I
think it showed the complex range of emotions that can
happen in any type of abuse cycle, you know, especially
compassion for understanding that the person who could be the
perpetrator of abuse may have experienced it themselves or may
have other complicating factors that have led them to becoming
the person that they are.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So for anyone who hasn't seen the show, or maybe
hasn't seen all of it like me.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
This is a synopsis of it, and I'm reading this
for you so that I get the details right, says
comedian and an actor Richard Gadd. Conceptualized Baby Reindeer after
a woman sent him forty one thousand and seventy one emails,
three hundred and fifty hours worth of voicemails, seven hundred
and forty four tweets, forty six Facebook messages, one hundred
and six pages of letters, and a variety of weird gifts,

(20:41):
including a toy reindeer over the course of four years.
It began as a one man show at the Edinburgh
Fringe Festival and it got picked up by Netflix.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Basically, Netflix and Richard Gadd have said that they wanted
to tell the story because it is his story to tell,
but they also wanted to the stalker's identity and the
other people in it, anyone that was accused of anything,
so they said, well, the show describes itself as a
true story in the opening. It says in the credits
this program is based on real events. However, certain characters, names, incidents, locations,

(21:14):
and dialogue have been fictionalized. For dramatic purposes, but the
show's creator said his intention wasn't for viewers to try
and investigate more of the story's origins, but that is
what ended up happening. We've gone to such great lengths
to disguise her to the point that I don't think
she would even recognize herself. What's been borrowed is an
emotional truth, not a fact by fact profile of someone.

(21:37):
These are pretty big claims to having the opener when
everyone everyone sees it, to say that this is a
true story, but then in the credits at the end
to have like almost a byline disclaimer that, like, whilst
a lot of this is true, some of it's you know, exaggerated.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
But what was so interesting about that is that I
think it being a true story was one of the
main things that everyone grass. It was one of the
things that they used to market the show, and it
was something that people kind of said, you kind of
can't criticize it when someone's saying, this is what really
happened to me, and this is my true story. They
just said in that statement that the characters have been

(22:13):
changed so much that they might not even recognize themselves.
And sorry, but I'm going to say that that's not
correct because the real Martha, and I'm putting that in
quotation marks has come out over the weekend and she
has done an interview with Piers Morgan kind of telling
her side of the story, and it was brought up
a lot in the interview. The characters are so similar

(22:36):
in appearance. The actual actress who played Martha in the
show is British, but she put on a Scottish accent
so that she could be more like the real life character.
This interview it went, it's on YouTube. It goes for
nearly an hour, and Piers Morgan, who is usually known
for being a really, really controversial figure, I actually think
he did a relatively good job at this. I think

(22:58):
he asked the questions that everyone wants wanted to know.
And so my criticism of this interview is a little
bit more about the actual interview existing in itself, and
I have a lot of ethical and moral questions about it,
and still to this point I'm not even sure where
I completely land on it.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
The interview of the aftermath of the real life Martha
is going as bonkers and as viral as the actual
TV show. It's at nine point six million views. That
YouTube already nine point six million views. Fuck, that is
a lot. So the first half of the interview, the
first thirty minutes, I was really surprised because I was like,
Oh my gosh, this woman is really normal, she's really intelligent,

(23:40):
she's articulate. She is completely just rebutting everything, defending herself.
I was really surprised because in my head, I guess
you have an idea of what someone's going to be.
We've watched the show, we've developed the idea, and I
wasn't getting that at all. And then the second half
of the interview rolled around and I completely switched my tune.
I was like, oh my god, she's not well, she's unhinged.

(24:01):
It's definitely her because she started to contradict herself a
lot of her body language. I'm not a body language
expert at all, but I could look at her and say,
oh my god, she's floundering. I feel like she's lying
a lot of flittering eyes when she couldn't answer a
question and looking away when she was answering and started
what with some of the contradictions. So some of the
contradictions were she would say things like, oh, I mean

(24:23):
we were friends. Of course I messaged him like we
were friends. And then later on she'd be like, I
don't even know the guy. Then she'd say she absolutely
never contacted him, didn't send emails or whatever. And then
she said, oh, no, I sent a few. Later on,
she sent a few. It's just a lot of different
things where she almost forgot maybe she said something if
that makes sense, Yeah, there would just sound some really
strange things. But she says it in a way that's

(24:45):
so convicting and normal. So she'd say she's got She's like, oh, well,
I don't remember where I sent messages from. I've got
four phones. And he was like, why do you have
four phones? And she's like, well, that's normal. I just
like to keep people separate. And Peers was like, well
that's not that normal, Like no one has four phones,
and she's like, yeah, I know loads of people with
four phones. It's like, so you can just you know,
keep different whatever. Then she would say things like I
sent him only a handful max of letters, because she

(25:08):
sent him hundreds and hundreds of handwritten letters like this
apparent stalker. And so she would say, oh, I sent
him a couple of letters. Maybe it was ten Max
and he's like, oh, so you definitely did send him
a handwritten letter. She's like, yes, but it was always
just supportive and saying I'm sorry about your sexual assault
or whatever else, congratulations on the show. And he's like, amazing,
So if Richard actually has three hundred letters from you,

(25:30):
they could do a handwriting analysis to confirm that all
three hundred letters are from you. And then she said,
well he would forge them all, oh dear. So it
just started to unravel, and I think that's when the
world has started to see, Okay, this is her, I mean,
and allegedly this whole thing for me is allegedly allegedly
don't suit me. But everyone's like, Okay, it's looking like
that this woman is the real life stalker and this

(25:52):
is where all the discussions come from now in the world.
Should Peers Morgan have been able to do that interview?
Should we have given this woman the platform in the
space to talk about what happened? Because on one hand,
this is absolutely also her story to tell, and even
if it's not her story to tell, she's been brought
into this hell whole. So if she isn't the stalker,

(26:14):
the whole world thinks that she is, so she should
have a ride of rebuttal and defense. But if she
is the stalker, should we be giving her the platform
if she's mentally not sane, And this is where the
conflict of interest is coming from. Everyone's half the world
is like, this should have never happened. She's not well,
and the other half is, why are we not punishing
her if this is true.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I feel so many different ways about this, and I
think for me, they're all existing at the exact same time.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Part of me is thinking she has every right to.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Defend herself because, like you know, Netflix has said, oh,
we tried to conceal their identity, they wouldn't even recognize themselves.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's factually not true.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
You can see the actress and the real life Fiona Harvey.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
It's almost uncanny. And they also tracked her down within
two days, so it wasn't hard.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
So that to me, I go, she has the right
to defend her Whether this ever faced the courts or
not is still a little bit unclear because in the
show she pled guilty. She was convicted for stalking, but
in this interview she said that she's never had a
criminal record, that that never happened that she never went
to court, and a lot of people are saying, well, okay,
where's the court records?

Speaker 1 (27:18):
I did read something here.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
I wanted to get this information for everyone because I
was curious about it myself. This is an article from
the Guardian. This is more difficult to fact check in
the UK than it is in the US. In the UK,
criminal records are publicly available, and the Criminal Records Offers
has records of every arrest, charge, caution and conviction. However,
the Human Rights Act states that criminal records are not
publicly viewable and less released by the courts. So it

(27:43):
looks like there's a little bit of complexity there. And
I even think, let's say that she is guilty of this,
let's say that she was found guilty in the court.
Is the court of public opinion worse? You know, like,
she's done the crime, she's done the time or whatever
the punishment may be that she ended up having to

(28:04):
go through. Do we then have the right to kind
of go, well, she has to face more punishment because
now we're going to tell that.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
I just it's great.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
It doesn't exist black and white for me, and I
feel as though it's like, well, do we believe in
a society where justice means retribution or does it mean
that we give these people the ability to learn and
grow from their mistakes and pay for their punishment and
move on. If someone had come to me and said,
you have the opportunity to interview the real life Fiona Harvey,

(28:33):
do you guys want to do it on the podcast?

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Would say yes, I don't.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Like, I don't know, Like, honestly, I really would ceaseaure
because I would know how much it would do for
us as a business. Like you know, I know that
that would be so watched and wanted by the world,
But I also know that these things just are so
complex when you're talking about someone who may or may
not be mentally unwell.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Also, what's the scale of that?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Like, is anyone who's mentally unwell not allowed to have
ability to tell their own story and defend themselves? Fuck,
I'm mentally unwell, like I get on a podcast all
the time. Where's the line? Yeah, But I think the
difference is right. Think of it this way, Fiona. Real
life Martha has said this is.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Not me, Like, I am not the stalker. That's what
she's saying. I wanted to defend myself. She wanted to
speak out and tell her side of the story. So
who are we if she is innocent and this wasn't her.
Of course she should have a platform to argue that
one hundred percent. She should be able to defend herself
and explain her side of the story, like there's always
three sides to a story. Richard has had his platform

(29:37):
and it has gone bonkers. And I think he had
no idea that it was going to be so big.
I don't think anyone had any idea it was going
to be the most stream thing Netflix has ever seen.
What's happened is it's almost looks like it's unraveling for
her in that instance. So it looks like Peters Morgan
of course is capitalized on a business and said, yes,
I'm going to get so many downloads from this, this
is going to be great for me. But he's also saying, well,

(29:58):
she's saying it's not her, we should give her a space.
Imagine if someone imagine if hypothetically it's not her and
she has been brought into this chaotic, tumultuous world that
is absolutely ruining her personally and her business, her career
as a lawyer, because she's still working as a lawyer,
her relationship, she's in a relationship. She said, who are
we then to say, nah, just in case it is you,

(30:20):
we're not going to let you tell your side of
the story. We can't say to someone that you're not
allowed to come and argue the point when the whole
world is convicting you of something if that's not you.
So I understand.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
I want to feel differently to that because I think
about people like Bruce Lehman with the interview that he
did with Channel seven. I think about Ben Robert Smith,
and I think about these people who have been found
guilty in a court of law.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
But that's different because this is a character on TV
where the world has just pinpointed a human and said, oh,
that's them and condemned them, yeah, without knowing. So I
think it's different. So I think she was entitled to
tell her side of the story because it could have
gone one of two ways. The world could have been like,
holy Moley, far out, that's not you, We needed to

(31:00):
cut you some slack. Or could it make it worse
for her?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
You know? Now I think it has Yeah, now the
world's going Now you've put your name to it.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
You've put your face to it. We all know what
you actually look like like. I just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
This whole thing to me feels so murky, and I'm
curious as to whether it has changed people's perception of.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
The show or even of Richard Gad.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
You know, do you think this takes away some of
the recognition that he got for such an honest and
vulnerable portrayal of.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
His story of abuse. Well, there are a lot of people,
and this is what I when I mean by I
say when I formed my opinion after I watched it,
and then I did a lot of googling online to
what the general public's opinions were. Firstly, a lot of
the media outlets they hate Piers Morgan anyway, so they're
dragging him. They're just saying he should have done it.
It was a car crash, it was terrible. I didn't
actually feel that at all. Whether he should have done

(31:47):
it or not is like, you know, the ethical question
surrounding whether you should be having given a platform to
these kind of people is another question. I didn't think
it was as bad as the media I'm making out,
but a lot of people it's often not. It's really
tall with public opinion, because there are a lot of
people that are saying Rich Gadd shouldn't have had the
platform to tell a story that could point to the

(32:08):
real people, even though it's his story. So a lot
of people are now switching the tune on him. There
are a lot of people that have intensified their hate
for the real life Martha like so, whether she did
it or not, she's now receiving ten times more hate
death threats. A lot of people are hassling her media
and public, And then there are a lot of people
that are in Martha's defense saying why are we condemning her?

(32:33):
A if it was real, why did she go to
prison when she was obviously mentally unwell? And B why
are we now publicly condemning her she's mentally unwell. I
have a problem with that. And the reason I have
a problem with that is because I think if you
changed the sexes here, if this was a female and
there was a male that was stalking her, sending her
forty thousand messages, turning up and sitting outside her house

(32:57):
sexually assaulting her at nighttime in a dark alley, if
this was the other way, we wouldn't be saying, why
is he going to prison? He needs mental help. We
wouldn't be saying that, We would say put him in prison.
So I'm having a bit of a hard time that
if this is real and she did sexually assault him,
and she did stalk him and turn up at his house,
and why is it different because she's female.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I actually learned about this through someone who is going
to be on the podcast very shortly named Nicole Madigan.
She wrote a book called Obsession. She was stalked by
a woman in Australia, and towards the last part of
her book, she talks about the gender breakdown of stalkers,
what's most common, what's uncommon? And she wrote this part
that really stood out to me, and she said, a
main reason that when women stalk men it is under reported.

(33:41):
It has a lot to do with the idea of
physical intimidation. So we have this kind of gender stereotype
that if it's a female stalker and a male victim,
they're not going to be able to hurt them as
much because the physical dynamic is almost in reverse of
what we typically see. Whereas if it was a man
who was the perpetrator and it was a woman who

(34:02):
was the victim. We all naturally go with that such
a threat to her physical safety as well as her
mental well being. And the show did very accurately depict
the complexity of this situation, and it just makes me
feel quite uncomfortable that this complexity is now extending into
the real world. It's really extending into all of our lives.

(34:22):
There was a quote in the Guardian article that I
mentioned before, and they said, by promising viewers a true
story and by doing such a shoddy job of masking
Harvey's identity, Baby Reindeer might have invited us to speculate
on what really happened, but this has made us complicit.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Well, it opens up a whole new question, right, who
owns a story? Yeah? Benjamin King is Netflix UK senior
public policy director, and he came out the day before
the interview. He was talking this is in UK Parliament
and he said, ultimately, it's obviously very difficult to control
what viewers do, particularly in a world where everything is
amplified by social media. I personally wouldn't be comfortable with

(35:01):
a world in which we decided was better that Richard
was silenced and not allowed to tell the story and
that really is thought provoking, because when I was reading
some of these articles online, I was like, wow, you know,
I get it. Maybe he shouldn't have told his story
like that, knowing that it could have resulted in this
public vitriol of a either unwell woman or a potentially

(35:24):
innocent woman. But then, how can we as a society
say to somebody who was sexually assaulted and stalked and traumatized.
How can we then go and say to that person,
you shouldn't be able to tell your story because it's
both people's stories, both party stories, And it's just unfortunate
in a way, fortunate and unfortunate that the show Baby
Raindy blew up to the level that it did because

(35:46):
it raises so much awareness for a stalking b the
fact that stalking can be either sexes, and like you said, Kish,
it did it very well. It showed a very accurate
representation of what stalking can look like and the complexities
of the relationship. I don't know what the answeres. Who
are we to say he can't tell the story, but
then the public shouldn't be going and condemning this woman anyway.
But we can't control that, and that's what Netflix have said, right,

(36:09):
They're like, unfortunately, we can produce something to the level
that we think is appropriate, that we think we've done
a great job. We think we have tried to mask
someone's identity, but we can't control the public from there
on out, and then that falls back on us as
the consumer one hundred percent. Are we complicit in watching, Yes,
that's okay. Are we complicit in the public hate and

(36:29):
condemning of a person also, yes, if they can produce
something to that level and do it in a point
like I would never know who she is because I
didn't go on a rampage to go and try and
stalk and find out who she is. Then I didn't
find out who she is and then go and put
public hate on her profile. That's on us as the consumer.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Do you remember Grace Tame one of the amazing Australians
of the year. She did so much work to do
with overturning the laws that prohibited sexual assault victims from
naming and telling their stories.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think I don't know exactly what the legislation was,
and it was state based, so it was quite complex.
But it was not long ago that the survivors of
sexual assault were not allowed to name themselves or tell
their stories if there were certain conditions that happened during
their sexual assault. Yeah, and that just seems absurd. It
seems like a second abuse of power towards people who

(37:21):
experience sexual assault, because not only do you have to
go through it, but then you're also responsible for keeping
it quiet and keeping that story hidden.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Women don't even want to ever report that something has
happened because nothing's going to happen. To the fact that
Grace tan wasn't even allowed to tell her side of
the story, and she was just a representation of so
many women that were in that position.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, and it makes me think about Richard Gadd and
now I'm thinking he was the victim of sexual assault
and he has every right to shout that from the
rooftops exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh it's so complex, isn't it. Yeah, And it just
comes back to the question who owns a story. That
is why I think it was important that she was
given a platform to tell her side of the story.
Whether people agree with that or not, that's just my
personal opinion. But I think Richard had his platform to
tell his story and he deserves to tell it like
anyone that has been through that should be able to

(38:08):
scream that from the rooftops, and he could have named
and shamed the people in it if he wanted to.
I don't believe there are any clauses that stop him
from naming people that, especially if she was convicted, but
he chose not to. He still chose to try to
protect those people. Didn't quite work out. Piers Morgan's asked
her if he could do a light detective test. He's like,
would you do a light detect test? She's like, yeah, absolutely,

(38:30):
I'm not lying, and he's like, okay, so if we
brought one in, you would do it now? And she
was like, no, I'd have to think about it. I'd
have to think about it. See this makes me uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I think the only way that this needs to go
forward and maybe in these situations, is that this needs
to be put before a court where it is judged appropriately.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah you know the public.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, not by the public, because I think the court
of public opinion is potentially a lot more biased. We
obviously all have our own biases that we put into
these stories. I mean, we've seen this happen. Richard Gag
came out on his Instagram and said, essentially, there's another
person who perpetrates sexual assault on him in the show,
and it's not as clear who that is, but people

(39:11):
apparently were going after they thought they'd figured out who
it was, and they were absolutely targeting him. And Richard
Gadd had to come out and say, hey, guys, that's
not who it was. Please stop sending death threats, please
stop infiltrating this man's life, and he had to step
down from his job.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
So, yeah, someone's life has been ruined because of the
public court of law.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
But would we feel differently if it was the right person?
Would we feel differently if the person who actually did
that the public went after them and then they had
to step down from their job, Because I go, you
kind of deserve that if that's what you've done to someone. However,
many years ago, that's what should have happened through the court.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
You should have been held accountable.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
And I guess it just gets so murky when we
balanced this whole, like what's been proven in court, what
has actually happened to someone, what's the punishment for the
person who's done it. So many people who perpetrates it
assault and abuse slacks talking, don't ever have to face
up to the consequences. So do we just take the
consequences into our own hands?

Speaker 1 (40:07):
And no, the answer should be no. I think I
don't think that we should be attacking people online for
especially in this situation. We can still watch this Piers
Morgan interview and say we think it's her, but we
don't know it's her. No one knows. It hasn't been
proven that it's her.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I think it'll be interesting because she said that she
was going to sue Netflix for defamation, which probably is
the only way that we're going to get clarity over
this scenario and the story of what happened.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
And well, I think the thing is right, and this
is where she might have a leg to stand on.
This is why it's going to be so interesting to
watch because if and look, believe it or not, I'm
not a lawyer, But if if they have said that
this is a true story and she has had this
level of defamation, if say they said she sent forty
one thousand emails and she turned up in his house

(40:55):
every single day at whatever else, But if she only
sent thirty thousand emails and she never actually turned up
at his house, if it gets down to the nitty
gritty details, and Netflix made the mistake of not promoting
enough that it was based around a true story, then
she probably does have a leg to stand on. So
it's going to be really interesting to see how this
plays out. I don't think we've ever seen anything like

(41:18):
this play out in the public before. Okay, it's time
for accidentally unfiltered your most embarrassing story. I have one.
It's not overly embarrassing. I think it's more funny. But
I'm trying to put myself in this position. Actually, i'd
probably stoked if I was in this position. When I
was forty odd weeks pregnant with my third baby, my
husband and I were having sex to bring on labor.

(41:40):
When we finished, a massive pool of water came from me,
like soaked through all the bedding to the mattress. I
was like, shit, the waters have broke. Whool, let's go anyway.
We got to the hospital and they obviously test the
liquid to check what it is and if it's your waters.
They started questioning me about the circumstances, and I told
them that we were having sex to bring on the labor.

(42:00):
The midwife then comes back with the results and tells
me my waters have not broke. In fact, the liquid
was come. I had squirted so intensely. She squirted. It's
so hard she thought her waters broke. Man, tell us
your secrets. How do you squirt? I don't want to

(42:23):
be squirting the volume of like. I don't want to
be drowning Ben. I want Ben to be like having
to put goggles on because the squirt is so much.
She squirted so much she thought her waters broke. That
is the funniest thing. Why did the person who tested
that tell you that?

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Why didn't they just say, we actually think it might
have just been a bit of urine, like there would
have been pressure everywhere.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
That is important to know. And also what a hype
up moment. You can imagine the husband going to work
next day. Yeah, boys, so hard. We thought babies come gloss.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Okay, this one's also seculated. It's a quick, little short one.
My husband and I have a seven old baby, so
sexy timing in our house isn't a regular occurrence. Tonight,
we put the baby to bed and we were getting
jiggy with it on the couch in the lounge.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Good for you. All of a sudden we hear this
loud click, silence, wiggle wiggle doing a dance off.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
A mouse got caught in the mouse trap and there
was just a mouse dying off to the.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Side where we were. Oh my god, that it makes
me feel sick. A way to kill the mouse traps.
That's so cruel, aren't they? No?

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Sorry, rodents not a vibe, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
They're just not a vibe at all. What do you
do if you're in the crucial moment you climbaccine? Do
you keep going or do you have to stop? Move arout?
It's a million dollar question. I don't know if you
could keep going and I'd have to stop.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
And although it's already caught, like it's not gonna get away.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I guess that is true. Actually it's just the lake stars.
Why don't we have both? I don't know. I think
it hit different one. It's a dead animal in the
room with you. Yeah, they don't smell for a while.
They don't smell for a while.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
I've actually been in this situation once where speaking earlier
about how you had to call your dad, there was
a dead rat outside of my house and I didn't
live with my mom at the time, but I just
didn't have it in me to move the dead rat,
and so I was not in a relationship and I
needed to call my mom and get her to come
and pick up the dead rat and put it in.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Mom. Yeah, she's a trooper, don't Mother's Day?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Mom?

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Delilah like a year or two ago. And then when
de Lilah escaped and brought home, it was already dead,
but she was a dead possum. It was pretty big too,
and she was like she just she was so proud.
She was like, look what I got, mom, putting it
at my back door. I also didn't have anyone to
move it, but I didn't call my mom. I had
to pick it up myself. It was a giant I.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Do remember you sent me videos traumatized because you tried
to get me to do it and I refused, and
I told you the rat story.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
Then I was like, if.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
I couldn't move a rat, I cannot move the bigger,
cuter costume of a rat.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Which that's awesome. All right, let's do our suck in
our sweet highlights and low lights. My suck of the week.
My sister Sherry has been She's my best friend. You guys,
a lot of you guys on the podcast know her.
She's been living overseas in Scotland for a long time.
You know that because she hangs out with Ben more
than I hang out with Ben. So she was coming
home for good to move home in June. She's been

(45:22):
living over there for like two years now and they've
just decided to stay on what for another year? Yeah,
So she's staying on, which I think is amazing because
I'm like, before you settle down and have kids and
you've got your mortgages and you know, travel as much
as you can live overseas. I think it's amazing. But
I just was really excited for her to be an
hour's flight away instead of twenty five hours flight away.

(45:45):
So I get it, But that's my suck of the week,
is like, oh, it's another year without my bestie.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
You thought the light was at the end of the
tunnel literally living further away.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I'm surprised by that because I see her stories all
the time about how like awful the weather is over
in the UK, and obviously our weather here is better.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
I think it's because his family's over there, obviously, and
also like every two weeks you can just go to
Paris on an hour flight for cheap. Like when it
gets cold and miserable, they go to Greece because it's
like us. It's like me going to Port Macquarie or
the Gold Coast, it's the equivalent, but they get to
go all over Europe. So I totally get it. But
definitely my suck and my sweet of the week is
I just saw this last night. You guys might remember

(46:22):
many years ago we interviewed Michael from Love on the
Spectrum or you might not have heard that interview, but
maybe you've watched Love on the Spectrum and you know
who Michael is. He was a breakout star. He was
just the most beautiful person on there. He was on
two seasons and the world just fell in love with
him and we did too, so we had him on
the podcast. I'm going to actually get Keisha to put
that interview link into these show notes if you haven't

(46:43):
listened to it. He's just a dream. I remember when
we did the interview and talking to him. He always
wanted to be an actor and he would always do
his voiceovers for us. He does so many characters and
it was really great. And fast forward a few years
I saw last night. He is like a main character
in this new TV series that is based around an

(47:04):
autistic man, like an autistic son, so he's obviously playing
that role. And I watched the trailer it's about to
be released on ABC, and I was just so emotional.
I get emotional now because I'm like, I'm so proud
of him, like just not giving a fuck, chasing his
dreams NonStop. And I watched the trailer for this show.
It looks brilliant. It's like a new comedy kind of drama,

(47:27):
and he is amazing in it. Messaging him last night
and I'm just it was my sweet by far of
the week seeing someone, especially someone like Michael just not
give up and tick his box. I was like, I'm
just frothing it for him. Yeah, I can actually see that.
You're like, really, I can cry it out. I don't
know why, I just I love to see it.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, mine suck for the week. Actually, guys, breaking news.
I am finally allowed to talk about what my boyfriend
does as a job.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Oh why, because he's decided to keep you.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
So for any one who has been listening to the
podcast for a long time. He still doesn't want me
to use his name. We call him Tobler and.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Instagram. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
It never has, but I've just been told that that's
what he's okay with and we kind of have to
accept it. He also told me that I was never
allowed to talk about his job and that I was like,
why is that the case?

Speaker 1 (48:20):
And kind of the feedback I got it on the.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Side of like, it's because what you do for a
job could impact me in a negative way. Well, I
think it's because so we'll tell everyone now, my boyfriend's
a doctor and he has just gotten a job at
the start of this year at a big hospital here.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
In Sydney, and to get onto this specialty program.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
It's super super competitive and basically it's not based off
of things that you would expect it to be. It's
really like it's a personal thing. And essentially he didn't
want to give anyone anything that could work against him
until he was like solidified in this position.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, so talking about like butt play and stuff probably
wasn't going to go well in his interview.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
I mean, sorry, if you're at times.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Casha entrologists, but that would get you the job. Oh
so you like things up the butt?

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Got it grat Okay, we're talking about this publicly. So
I ended up meeting a lot of his work friends
a couple and like his bosses, all of his bosses
at the footy a couple of weeks ago, and they
were really lovely and we got on really well. So
I think that he's kind of like softened. He's like, Okay,
I'm in now. They all know you and they know
what you do, so if they wanted to find information,

(49:26):
they could now. But related to my suck is that
he's on seven nights of night shift. So they work
at rangers depending on the weekend or the weekday, but
it can be from like eight thirty at night until
nine o'clock in the morning, and it's seven days in
a row. Yeah, And for anyone who's with someone who
works shift work, this is so selfish of me, but
I'm like, it really affects your life in a couple

(49:48):
of ways. One is because you barely see the person
that you live with. But two is that way.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
When you're in.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Your own house, you've got to be really cognizant of it.
Like our wardrobe is in the room that he sleeps
in when he's on night shift, so I have to
plan everything that I want from that room and from
that warardrobe ahead of time and pop it in the
spare room because we'll sleep separately for this whole week,
and like.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
When I'm at home, I've got to be super quiet.
I bet Tom Barn's like, Wow, Keisha, I hope you're okay.
I get it. I used to do eight on six
off night shifts, so eight in a row, you would
do the entire night. You'd finish at eight am. Yeah,
I get it. But I also feel more sorry for
him than you. I also feel sorry for him, feel
what I do for me.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
But yeah, this week is gonna be, like, it's gonna
be a weird one. So thinking of anyone who either
has a partner or themselves does like shift work, because
you're amazing, I don't know. I honestly don't think I
would be able to do it, because firstly, I'm obsessed
with sleep. But my sweet for the week, I think
would be that I really had this beautiful moment with
my nan last night, her and I before she had
more health complications. Everyone said we were two peas in

(50:54):
a pod. We're exactly sixty years apart, and our personalities
were so always similar, like, she just cracks me up
like no one else on this planet. And it's been
really sad the last couple of years, kind of just
seeing her lose a little bit of herself. And it's
not that like her memory is not bad. I think
she thinks it's worse than it is. But it's just
been really sad for me to be like, oh, the you,

(51:17):
that's you.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Wouldn't have reacted to that situation in the way that
you just did, and you can see it.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
She just doesn't have as much joy in her life
because she's in pain and she's got a variety of
health complications. But we had this moment yesterday where she
was like, I just miss you so much, call me more.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
I want to chat, And I was like, wow, tell
her to listen to the podcast.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
I absolutely will not that might be exactly what she
might love that she would not love for reasons similar
to what my boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Thought his workmates would think.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
But yeah, no, it was such a beautiful moment for me.
It was something that I think I'll like remember forever
and I feel tary thinking about it because I do
definitely need to make more of an effort, but it
was that beautiful reminder that I needed to with my
with my beautiful men.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
And that is it from us.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Hey, guys, guess what we got to two thousand subscribers
on YouTube, so thank you too.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
You. If we had more money, would do sound effects. No, guys,
we love that you guys are subscribing and watching. Please
if you haven't watched yet, the episodes are so great
to watch. It's just a different way of consuming the podcast,
and I think it's cool that you get to see
it and hear it. So please just find us on
YouTube and follow. There are so many cool episodes on there,

(52:30):
so many interviews, it's a lot of fun. Speaking of subscribing,
if you are a listener right now, stop what you're
doing and hear me out.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Unless it's driving, please continue to continue driving it so
if you're operating in heavy machinery, no, But if you
listen to the podcast and you enjoy the podcast, but
you haven't actually hit the follow or the subscribe button
on whatever you're listening, Apple or Spotify, please do that.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
All it does it's not a cost thing. It's all
of our episodes are free. But it just means it'll
automatically download and populate into your feed so you never
have to find us. It's always on time. But it
does a lot for us in the back end as well.
It does a lot for us to know who is
listening and where you guys are the demographic. It helps
the podcast to grow. So we can't stress that enough.

(53:14):
If you listen, please just hit the subscribe button.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
I don't want to bore you with the data, but
the data is awesome for us.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
And it also means that we can see more of
like how long you've been listening to things, so that
we know what content was super engaging, so that we
can try and bring more of that for you.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
So yeah, like I said, I'm not gonna boil you
with the stats. It helps make a better podcast for sure. Yeah,
I can make us know what to give you more of. Yes,
what I'm trying to say in.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
A roundabout way, but you know the drill. Tell you, mum,
tell you dad, tell you dog, tell your friend. Oh sorry,
I got used to saying it while God, Keisha.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Do we want how to say it together? Okay? Well ready,
oh my god, I fellow free just feel like someone
was cheating on me.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Two one, tell your mum, tell dog, tell your friends
and share the lot because we love that.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
The company at the putter as they happen. Bim the
copy