October 21, 2024 • 47 mins
Hey Lifers!
Laura has had a weekend away with the friends that she hunted down on Linked in (it's hard to make friends as adults right??). Something that happened on the weekend raised the question for her of when to intervene to protect your kids from something vs when to let them work it out for themselves and build resilience. We're curious to know what you would have done in this situation.
Is a more inclusive rebrand enough to save Victoria's Secret? Last week we saw the first Victoria's Secret runway show since 2019. They've tried to be more inclusive with different body shapes and sizes. We speak about the past controversies that Victoria's Secret has been involved in and how the messaging of the company was so problematic.
Should companies with a history of exclusion or problematic practices be given the opportunity to evolve and change, or is it too late for brands like Victoria’s Secret?
Plus we speak about the friends of Dave Grohl's wife Jordyn Blum threatening to end their friendship if she goes back to him after he has fathered a kid outside of their marriage.
Have you ever had to cut off a friend because you were so sick of seeing them go back to a problematic partner?
Have you ever felt really exhausted from being the emotional support to a friend, kind of playing therapist, when they seemed to never take advice on board?
You can watch us on Youtube
Find us on Instagram
Join us on tiktok
Or join the Facebook Discussion Group
Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xx
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm cut, I'm Laura, I'm Brittany. Happy Tuesday. How is
your weekend, Laura.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I have a really sore hand. I woke up with
it for no reason. And it's another one of those
moments where you're like, oh, you just with your hand
for no reason. No, like an unusual ache, like a pain.
I was like, I'm getting old. Maybe I have arthriders.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Now I have that unusual ache in my heart. Oh
my god, I wish I was joking. It hurts, But continue.
Tell me about your arth wriders. How let's talk about
your aching heart. My heart aches you?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay, that sounds that's at burn, Yes, indigestion. It's also
just because we're getting old. Didn't have a lot of
night shows last night.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, what's this as rider?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I nothing, like, literally nothing, but I woke up and
I can't for some reason this part of my hand
and I can't lift things. I have like half the
amount of power in my hand that I normally have.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because you do have powerful hands, usually I only have
half the power. We don't know what it could be.
I had that once and now it's wow, the name's
just gone out of my head. Where you have like
the little bubble in the joint in your hand, ganglion,
have a ganglion and you have The old school way
to get rid of it was to slam a Bible
(01:27):
onto your wrist.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You have, Oh my god, Keisha, can we do it live?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Give me a hard book that we've got we love
love behind us.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now it needs to be a hardcover. I have seen
people do this on Instagram. I don't know where I
am in the algorithm of Instagram, but I have. I
have been fed quite a few of these videos where
people have that bump on their hand and then a
doctor or someone I think it's not a doctor, but
someone comes along and smacks it with a book and
it pops the ganglion again.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I just always have to laugh at how different our
Instagram feeds are. You're you're hitting arthritis and ganglions. It
is true. So I had one, but mine popped. I
saw mine pop live. I was getting an ultrasound on it,
and the pressure from the ultrasound pro popped it and
I saw it disperse. So maybe you have a ganglion.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Maybe not, though maybe I've just did something from picking
up Lola. She's Lola is like twenty something kilos, and
she thinks she's a newborn. If she could still be
breastfed and suckling inside my shirt, she would wow.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Ben thinks he's a newborn still too. It's starting to
make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I ever saw hand from carrying him as well, nursing
Ben like a baby.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh dear, No, he just likes to suckle. Yeah, so
you have to. Well, that's probably why you saw the
way around twenty kilos all day.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
The words suckle and the visual image of a full
grown man. It doesn't do it for me. It's not sexy,
it's not you know, hey, you want to suckle?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
All right? Moving right along. So, how was your actual weekend?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
No, my weekend was good. We had the last This
out so ridiculous because I feel like every weekend we've
had like a mini getaway. You do, you have had
a lot, We've had a lot of little getaways. We
had our last mini getaway before what is like the
hell fire of November and December for Tony May. So
like October is chill. October is manageable. As soon as
(03:17):
we get into November when everyone else is kind of
like looking towards the end of the year and thinking
that things are calming down. It is probably out. Oh,
I mean that's not even probably. It is our busiest
time of the year for Tony May. So I no
more nomal holidays, no more fun. It was our last
little mini weekend away. We went away with some really
good friends and their kids. And if you were an
(03:38):
og lifer, you're gonna laugh at this. Do you guys
remember how I was talking about the friends that I
made at the park and how I made Matt stalk
them on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We're such good friends now that we do weekends away together. Okay,
so we really got in there. Do you want to
know why this is funny? It's because they're my friends
now too. How do you know that I know your
whole weekend before you talk? Oh, because you go to
the same We have saunas. We're in a sauna together yesterday,
We're all talking about your weekend and he's like, I'm
sure Laura will feel you in. He's like, our kids
(04:08):
just get along so well. I'm like, I know, He's
like we were park friends. I was like, I know.
I was like I know everyone's stories, like, okay, if
you're not across it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Basically, we just met this family in the park this
one day, and we thought they had kids the same
age as our kids, and we all hit it off.
And then I said to Matt, like, it's so hard
to make adult friends when you have children and you
kind of you know, unless you make friends in the workplace,
it's really hard to meet new friends with people who
you think are similar to you and you vibe with
are your people? Yeah, And I was like, Matt, when
(04:36):
we just met in the park, and we're never going
to see these people again, and that'll be such a shame.
And Matt was like, well, actually I do know where
he works, so why don't I just try.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And find them on LinkedIn? And we did that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And it's so weird to say that out loud because
it makes us sound like such absolute creeps, but I'm
okay with it. So hearing his version yesterday in the
sauna was so funny because no, just funny because he
thinks I'm hearing a story for the first time, but
I already know, like the other party's version, your version.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But the way he was saying it was like you guys.
It was like, you know, when you want to track
someone down for a date. He was saying, it was
like it was like romantic. His oh, it was no,
we have the same version. He was like, but he
wasn't trying to be funny.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I was like, leave your keys in the bowl and
let's just see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
He was like, so we met, you know, we met
through some friends at the park and then like we
were like, why not to start a WhatsApp group and
very sporadically be like, hey, guys, is anyone going to
the park today at four? And then we're like, I'll
be there. And then it was all this nervousness meeting
and then he's like and then the time came where
we thought should we escalate this? And Matt was like,
should we take this to the next level? Should we
(05:39):
go away for a week. It's because making new friends
is hard, guys.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Actually, look, something happened on the weekend that I would
love your thoughts on. A conversation that I had with
Matt quite often is around like resilience building and kids,
and like, if you don't have kids, you might not
find this very interesting. But hear me out because I
think most parents are just winging it, and we're trying
to do the best job that we possibly can.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We've read a few books.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
If you're lucky, We've listened to a few podcast episodes,
and no one knows what they're doing, not even the
people who say that they know what they're doing and
try and give the advice. We constantly had this conversation
around how do you build resilience in children when their
lives are seemingly pretty good?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
And I say this because growing up, my childhood wasn't great,
and I know that I got resilience in the bucket
loads like resilience.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Came at me.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Now, I'm not saying that I think kids need to
go through really horrible hardships in order to grow up
and have gratitude.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And have character and have characters like I have no trauma.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Clearly not. I would rather not have had her an
addict stepdad. But look, the character building was good, and
now I'm funny off the back of it.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You are only who you are because of him, So
have you thanked him to Your kids are going nowhere?
They got to roof over their head and no drugs.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
They literally, yeah, you don't know how good you've got it.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I'm going to become an adict and then you deal
with this. Fuck. We can't joke. We shouldn't joke. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So kids, my kids, they're very very lucky, right, They
go away all nice weekends away, they have beautiful friends.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Like you know, they get a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And I'm not saying we don't buy them things as
in like they're not getting loads of presents and stuff
like that, but they want for nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I've never been away with you or you haven't brought
them a present back from the airport every time. That's different.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's when I go away without them because I'm buying
them back with my guilt.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Guilt.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, it's guilt love. So that's different. That's working, mum,
guilt love. So okay. On the weekend, we were at
the pool and Mary had made friends with these little
girls and everything was going swimmingly funny or not mind
the pun.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
We got that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And then and then a little while after they had
been playing together, which what seemed really nicely, the older girl,
who was probably about five or six years older than Mally,
had said to her friends and she didn't know that
we could hear her. She obviously didn't know that we
were Mally's parents. She said to her friends, Oh my god,
does anyone like this girl? Let's lose her and swim
(07:58):
away from her. And then they were playing a game
between them where they were trying to run away from Marlee.
Now Molly's only five years old, so she didn't understand
that this is what was happening. And I was trying
to say to her, like, Marley, come and play with
your friends, like come over here, yeah, maybe, like let's
give them some time to themselves. And Marley really was like, no, Mommy,
they're my friends. I want to play with them. So
(08:18):
it was this moment where I was like, I know
you're going to get your little heart crushed. Do I intervene?
Do I let this run its course? Like is this
a learning moment for a child to realize like what
a social pecking order is?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Or do I intercept this? My advice would have been
do exactly what you did, Like you try and step
in without telling her and say, you know, like let's
give them some space, let's play over here, without saying
they don't want you. Keisha's in the corner, like I
will drop kick that kid, no, I want names and addresses.
I think I think it's super normal. It's a part
(08:52):
of growing up, unfortunately, And I think that for both
of those parties. You said that they're both only five
or six, it's a steep learning curve for Marley to
know that not everyone is always going to like you
or want to play with you, and for the other
girl as well, she's also learning on how to treat people.
And I'm not saying that that is right, but this
is These are like formative years that you are learning.
And from what you're saying, it doesn't sound like they
(09:13):
were being mean to her face. It sounded like they
had made the decision that they didn't want to be
in that situation, and they were like, to the other girls,
let's just get out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, it's way better to be mean behind people's back
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You don't get caught. No. But I think, I think
equally for both of them, this is a part of
growing up, and I think we do. I'm not a parent,
but I have a lot of nieces and nephews and
a lot of friends with kids. I also, Spoiler was
a child once. I think we bubble wrap our kids too.
Much these days, and we want to protect them. And
I understand that. Of course, you don't want your kids
to go through things. You don't want to see them sad,
(09:45):
fall and over hurt physically or you know, metaphorically like
me with my broken heart. But I just think it's
a part of it. And I think sometimes you have
to as a parent step back and let your child
work it out. If you do everything for them all
the time, they're not gonna be able to do anything
for themselves when they're older.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it was genuinely it was a good lesson because
we had that moment where we were like protective parents
and wanted to get involved, and then both Matt and
I had you know, a little bit of a chat
and we were like, you know what it's this is
for Mali to work out because as parents, we can't
constantly be fixing her problems. She needs to learn to
fix these problems herself, or she needs to figure out
and have and understand the social cues of when someone
(10:21):
does or doesn't want to play with her. And funnily enough,
like she is a tenacious little kid and she's very social.
So by the end of the holiday, she had won
them over. They were like coming up to play with her,
so I was like.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Go you and would just warm down. They're like, we
can't swim anymore. Just don't have it in this.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
But I don't know, it's really hard when you kind
of like see your kid being left out or something.
You know, it's really hard to have the self control
because you want to fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You're not always going to win. So I don't believe
in all these participation awards, like you know, people do
come first, second, and third, and people are not going
to be good at stuff. You're not going to be
the first person picked for a sporting team. You're not
always going to get the job that you go for. Like,
we need to be let down, we need to feel
what that feels like and what you made a really
good point, Laura, But she needs to learn those social cures.
(11:04):
So a child, maybe she needs to learn that they
didn't want to play with her in that time so
that she can reflect on those actions throughout the day
and she's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's what that was, not even like reflecting. It's not
as though she's done something wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's no, it's just learning.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think my big lesson from this,
and it's probably the first real time where I've had
to put it in action. Is this understanding that as
a parent, I can't fix all her problems, and I
shouldn't want to fix her problems because that's where resilience
building is going to come from, her learning the skills
to go, Okay, how do I deal with this situation?
And what's my social awareness around this?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Maybe we managed it in an okay way, but yeah,
I was. It broke my little heart to see her
being left out of something and not being able to
do anything and having to just stand by and watch
an unfold.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, and she won them over in the end. Good
on her, she got there. Yeah, that's what you do.
Wear them down. Yeah, you never take no for an answer.
Can saying well, our weekends were markedly different.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Let me say that I know you're in a sauna
for it, Like, I mean, so that whole guys. Actually,
I did see you posting on Instagram and I'm I'm
pretty certain you spent the entire weekend in a sauna.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah. I'm really hard into my sauna era because it's
just across the road from me. So I do live
in there. It's supposed to make me live longer. That's
what I've read. Chris Hemsworth said it in Limitless, the
documentary series that he did. The funniest thing happened. But
I need you guys to come along this journey and
imagine it with me, because this is very descriptive. But
I went out to dinner with Mitch our radio hosts,
and his boyfriend Stephen. We went to our local outdoor restaurant.
(12:32):
Everyone in Australia, not everyone Australian. It's just a it's
a restaurant where we live in Bonday. But it has
like this lush outdoor courtyard. It's like very fancy and
open and like it's nice. It's got a romantic feel anyway.
So we're outside and I need you to understand what
the chairs are. So the chairs are like almost if
you think of those old chairs that you take to
(12:54):
a barbecue or something, or maybe even camping, but a
bit fancier that the ones that fold out their wooden
They have like that calico canvas back. Lovely, so you
know the canvas back that slides over the post. Very
europe picnic vibes. But can you picture that the canvas back. Okay,
slides down over the back. So's boyfriend Stephen. We're sitting
there with wines all fancy. Mitch's boyfriend Steven. I don't
(13:16):
even know how you can do this. He had his
jacket his coat over the back of his chair. Stand it.
The night goes on, it gets a bit colder. He
decides to put his jacket on, so he pulls back,
lifts his jacket up, puts his jacket on, and then
goes to lean back in the chair. We all know
where you're going with there's no back. He falls through
(13:40):
the whole chair onto the ground in front of the
whole courtyard with the glass red wine because the canvas
from the back of the chair got stuck in the jacket.
He pulled the jacket up, the canvas was in it.
He didn't know. He put the canvas backing of the
chair around his body like wrapped like a hug, and
then just leant back with so much confidence. I have
never laughed so hard in my life, Like one of
those moments where you be embarrassed because you like and
(14:02):
then he couldn't understand. He was like, I don't understand
where where it's gone. It's like the way someone did
this to me. Yes, I've been set up. It's like
a prank and he's like, where's my We couldn't work
it out for so long until we're like, hang on
a minute, looked in his jacket and the whole camp
scene was wrapped his jacket, Like you couldn't you couldn't
script this shit. So literally, that's about as exciting as
(14:22):
my weekend got. Wow. I know.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
You guys might have seen that. Last week was the
return of the Victoria Secret Runway show. We've spoken about
Victoria's Secrets over the last couple of years. Back in
twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two, we've done two
episodes around the rebrand, around the very questionable ethics and
culture behind the brand itself. And since twenty nineteen, the
(14:50):
iconic Victoria's Secret Angels show had been rested because of
so much controversy, failing ratings, and also because of how
much the brand had dipped in sales and profits because
of the controversy that it had received. Now it has
made a comeback and it has really tried to embody
this idea of body inclusivity and diversity. A new brand
strategy that they have been heralding since twenty twenty. But
(15:13):
the question that we have is whether or not that
is an authentic brand change, and whether or not it's
possible for a brand that was so entrenched in diet
culture and in heroing one type of beauty standards for
so long, whether or not they're able to make this
complete backflip.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, back in May, Victoria's Secret had promised that the
show would reflect who they are today plus everything you
know and love, so the glamour, the runway, the wings,
the musical entertainment, and so much more. If you guys
have seen the shows, there always is really huge over
the top productions. What we did see were models of
all ages, new models that have never hit the Victoria's
(15:51):
Secret runway before. We saw Kate moss make her debut.
You know, Kate Moss's in her fifties. Tyra Banks was there.
She closed the show. Tyra Banks was an original Victoria's Secrets.
Now she is also in her fifties and she is
probably now included as quote unquote body diverse because she's
a little bit older. She talks about how she's put
on weight and she's in a different phase of her life.
What we did see though, was a very very pared
(16:13):
back version of a Victoria's Secrets runway show. The platform
and the runway was on the same level as everyone
was seated. All the seating for the guests were on
the same level. They were very basic chairs. It was
far less over the top, and the purpose of that
was supposed to be so that we are looking at
the models and what they are wearing the product, as
(16:34):
opposed to it being this show that is purely aravaganza. Yeah,
it's supposed to be so it's not this show that's
just for entertainment. I think personally they did that part
of it very well.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's interesting because I don't care so much about the
structure of the show, Like I don't care about the
bells and whistles or how the show was put together.
What I am so fascinated by is whether or not
a brand can completely change the identity like the DNA
of the brand, whether they can kind of come back
from the controversy that they faced if you guys aren't
across it all. So, I think it is important to
(17:05):
kind of lay down the backstory of this because it
goes beyond just being a brand that's not size inclusive
and obviously contributed to so much of the diet culture.
There was a lot of really insidious reports that came
out of Victoria's Secret. So back in twenty nineteen, that
was a time when many conversations around Jeffrey Epstein were
in media. But to give you the backstory, so Les
(17:26):
Wexner he was the billionaire founder and Ed Razzik he
was the right hand man of Victoria's Secret. Now, there
were so many reports that came out of sexual assault.
There were reports that came out around the culture of
Victoria's Secret, and for any of the models who had
came forward. So the angels who had come forward and
reported this type of conduct, they had been punished by
(17:47):
no longer getting placed within the show. So it was
almost a situation where if you came out and you
spoke about the treatment that you'd receive from within the company,
you'd be punished for it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So your career or justice.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So Les Wexner, he founded L Brand, which is a
global retail empire that includes Victoria's Secret bath and body works.
He was also the CEO for more than five decades
of the company. Wexner announced in twenty twenty that he
was going to step down and sell his majority stake
in Victoria's Secret for five hundred and twenty five million
dollars to a private equity firm, but he didn't sell
all of it, so he still profits from Victoria's Secrets
(18:19):
in some way. And the reason why he's linked to
Jeffrey Epstein is because he was the financial manager and
ex confidante of Les Wexner. So it is like the murkiest,
muddiest backstory as to how Victoria's Secret came to be
when you look at it with that lens. The thing
that's different now though, and to kind of bring it
forward into twenty twenty four, is that there is a
(18:40):
new CEO and her name is Hilary Super. She is
the former CEO of Rihanna's popular brand, which is Savage,
so it's a very very body conscious and body inclusive
brand and they have placed her as a CEO as
a real statement that they are trying to make massive
changes as a brand itself.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think it's amazing that they have appointed her as
the head because without doubt we can say that the
problems came from those men that were in charge of
Victoria's Secrets at the time, they have made a huge
conscious effort to make it very female dominated. And I
say that because everyone there was female, all the entertainment
was female like. That was a conscious decision from them.
But I think the question now is can a company
(19:20):
as large as Victoria's Secrets that has such a problematic
past have the opportunity to rebrand and make a comeback.
That's the question that everyone's asking, and from what I
have seen online, the discourse is kind of it's a
bit of a b to be. There's a bunch of
people saying, yes, you've come back, you've nailed it, you've listened.
I don't know, And then there's a bunch of people
that'll say, we will never forgive and forget what you
(19:42):
did or the messaging that your brand put out to
the world six years ago. To be honest, I've gone
back and forward on my opinion on this, but I
do think that I am the former. I think that
we can give them the opportunity to make amends and
make a change, apologize, say you've lived, and make the
improvements that we, as a consumer told them that we
(20:04):
wanted to see. I don't think we can hold it
against a company as a whole. If we know that
there are two three really problematic people, we know the
messaging wasn't great, but also the messaging was of its
great terrific. Yes, but it was of its time. That's
why it was that And I hate saying that, but
it's remiss not to make that point. It was of
its time. That is why this show was so big.
(20:27):
But then can we hold it against a brand when
we have spoken and they have taken six years out,
they have done what they think is their best to listen,
and they have brought something back. I, in this sense,
think that we can show a little bit of forgiveness
and say, okay, look, I think they tried to tried
to listen.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I think it's interesting because I don't have as much
grace for a brand as what I might do for
an individual. So like a brand is a profiting company,
and I guess my take on the Victoria secret is
like I don't have as much grace as what you do, Britt.
And I think about it in terms of all of
these models that have come on board. Ashley Graham is
one of them, and I was following what she was
saying on social media because she was one of the
real body inclusive women who fronted the Catwalk show.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I think she calls herself a plus size model.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
She does, I mean, which is like in and of itself.
I'm like, you know, some people are okay with using
plus size model and some people don't like that terminology.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But she does use it. Yeah, it should just be modeled.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
For these women to front this brand, they would have
had to have been paid an exorbitant amount of money,
right because nobody, no one in their right fucking mind
is putting their name to the brand of Victoria's Secret
without being remunerated in a way, and with that also
being shown that there is like tangible long term change.
(21:37):
And I understand that it may be Victoria's Secret's intention
to have tangible long term change. I'm not discrediting that
they've got a brand new strategy, but I think their
hand was forced to come up with that strategy. They
are a publicly listed company where they have massive amounts
of shareholders and so many people that are literally reliant
on that company being profitable. Their profits were dismal. They
(21:59):
had the greatest loss around twenty nineteen when they were
forced to make these changes. So I think they were
put between a rock and a hard place. They had
to change, they had to pivot because they were forced
to do so. I don't think it came from this
altruistic place of wanting to do it because it was
the right thing to do. I think it was a
performative thing. And now the blocks of the pieces of
(22:20):
the puzzle have fallen into place.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
But of course they were forced to change. That's what
evolution is. We're all forced to change once we put
something out to the world, whether it's an opinion, a
thought process, a product. We listened to the feedback and
we see, oh, okay, that's failing because of this, this
and this. That's what Victoria's Secrets did. To be honest,
I don't think the reason matters as much as what
they've done to fix it. But I have grace for
(22:42):
people and companies who have made a mistake and then
are actively trying to fix it after listening to feedback.
Everybody is going to make mistakes, but it's what they
do as a company or an individual to try and
rectify that problem. And I personally think whether you are
across and for Victoria's Secrets in terms of the idea
of that we have a show dedicated to women walking
(23:03):
and runway in lingerie. Like, maybe you don't like that
at all.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Maybe you do for me, Oh, I don't have a
problem with women walking laundry and it's great.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm not saying you, I'm saying the listener anyone, whether
you have because there are a lot of people that
think that we shouldn't even be doing this. At the
end of the day, I think it's another product that
we're modeling. So it doesn't bother me at all. Having
a runway dedicated to lingerie and sleep wear and sexy
things like that. I don't care about that. But do
you think that we are too hard on people when
they make their apologies or when they try to make
(23:30):
their comeback? Because Victoria's secrets, in my eyes, I looked
at them and I'm like, Okay, you've now toned the showback.
You've taken all the glamour out. You don't have the
fantasy briar anymore because no one actually buys it. You
don't have the extravagant wings anymore because it was irrelevant.
You've got products that people buy. You've put inclusivity in
there in terms of diversity, transgender models. You have models
(23:50):
in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, you have models of color,
and there's still people complaining. There's just a part of
me that thinks, Okay, you guys have told them what
your issues are. They've made changes, but it's still not enough.
And I do think sometimes we get to a point
where we're just out with our pitchforks, and sometimes it
will never be enough.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I personally, I think a brand that has done
that much damage, that has such a cedy pass, where
the X founder and CEO of five decades still profits
from it, I don't think it's a brand that we
should be putting our money towards when there are so
many other brands that consumers can choose, when you can
literally be buying your lingerie products from Rihanna. And don't
(24:32):
get me wrong, I'm not saying that the change isn't tangible.
I'm not saying that they're doing everything that they can
possibly do now to be presented as a diverse brand.
Their profit share has gone up by eighteen percent this
year alone, so it's definitely working for them. It was
a smart and tactical move. Do I think it comes
from an altruistic place, and that they are a company
that I want to forgive and put my money into.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And the reason for that is because I think that
the damage that that brand did to diet culture is
so long since. Look, I don't normally believe in cancel culture.
I think that a lot of people can come back
from it. Do I think that a brand that has
had such a long term impact on the way women
feel about their bodies should have the opportunity to rebrand.
I don't really think that they should. That's my opinion
(25:16):
on it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, but I also agree with that that's not the question.
That's not what we're talking about. Of course, we don't
think that somebody that was accused of sexual assault and
bullying harassment should be profiting. We didn't even know that
until yesterday, Until we researched this. People the general public
don't know he's still attached, which is a problem in itself, right.
We are all made to believe that he had left
the building. It was taken over by a new bunch
(25:36):
of people who really cared about giving back and making
the right changes. To be clear, of course, people in
that industry shouldn't still be profiting and that upsets me greatly.
I don't personally buy from Victoria's Secrets. But my question
that I'm posing is not about that as much. It
is about can somebody from six years ago who was
problematic and not putting out the great messaging do we
(25:57):
give them the grace to rebrand or do we hold
that against them for the rest of their life?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah? Look, I mean I think that there's a few
interesting parts of this. And Ashley Graham, who is someone
who I love following on Instagram. I think she is
brilliant in the way she speaks and I love her messaging.
She obviously spearheaded the Catwalk Show and she posted this,
which I can only imagine. When you are someone who
stands for body inclusivity and then you've made the choice
(26:23):
to represent a brand like Victoria's Secret, you know that
it could come with backlash, right, so you need to
be very clever and very careful with how you craft
your pr announcement that you're joining a brand like this.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Especially when six seven years ago you were a voice
saying that this is not okay.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Absolutely so, this is what she said when Victoria's Secret
first reached out. I'll be honest, I hesitated, well, thank
god for that. For years, the brand didn't feel like
it was made for someone like me. Their vision of
beauty seemed narrow, as if something they created was just
for one type of body and it wasn't mine. But
after sitting down with the leadership a Victoria's Secret, I
saw real change. They were excited to have me join
(27:01):
the show and assured me this wasn't just a one
time thing. The curve models weren't just a symbol. Victoria's
Secret genuinely want to be a part of the body
diversity revolution. They shared their commitment to embracing body diversity
in a lasting, meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So I said yes.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I said yes to representing all of us to show
up for everybody that's ever felt unseen. And that's a
journey I am proud to walk now. That is very powerful.
That type of celebrity endorsement goes a really, really long
way in changing your mentality around a brand and around
what a brand stands for. And I guess I do
come back to this idea that I think that they
(27:38):
have made great steps. They have put the right women
in leadership positions to create a brand that stands for
something different to what it used to stand for. I
just don't think that we can completely negate the history
of when there's so many other options and so many
other people that you can put your money towards. I
know that I, as a consumer, would prefer to choose
a small business, a small company, a female led startup,
(27:59):
where I know that the money is going towards something
that always had the intention of doing good in the world,
rather than creating the situation and the conversation the Victoria's
Secret did for so long.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Also, as someone Laura that's followed actually Graham for so long,
like you said, you've loved following her along for a while,
how did you feel, as someone that sort of knows
her story, respects her, loves her when she made that statement,
what did you think? Were you like, bullshit, you've been
paid a lot or were you like this is great.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I thought, wow, they must have paid you a lot
of money.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I was like, wow, Victoria's Secret has has huge pockets
in order to make this rebrand work.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
And the people that they have on board are some
incredible talent who I think a lot of people have
deep and great respect for and the only reason why
that talent it's probably twofold. I'm not saying it's just money,
but it is because of this new CEO, Hillary super
who people obviously have trust for. That's why she's been
put in the position of CEO to create trust with
the brand. But I would also say that there is
(28:55):
a massive monetary part of this.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah. I also say go hand in hand. Yeah, but
I think too. If if you've dedicated your life, like
let's use Ashley Graham to being a body inclusive model
whose messaging is to make everyone feel comfortable, you're fighting
to be seen on the runway so that people like
you feel seen. There's obviously going to be a really
huge part of you that's like, Okay, I know what
(29:19):
their past is, but I have fought for this moment,
So who am I then to say no? If a
brand has come as big as Victoria's Secret saying we
are making changes and we want you to be a
part of this new chapter, it'd be pretty hard to
say no when you're like, Okay, I've fought for this
for so long. Then they come and offer it to
me and I say no. I can understand why money
aside no doubt she got paid a mota, but money aside,
(29:42):
I can understand why she's like, yeah, I do want
to be known to have been one of the first
body inclusive models to hit the runway. For Victoria's Secrets,
I get that. I get wanting to really put what
you've worked so hard for for so many years into play.
I think we talk a lot about the effects cheating has,
obviously on the romantic relationship you're in, But what we
(30:02):
don't see a lot or talk a lot about is
the flow on effect that cheating has on other relationships,
like your friendships. Now, you guys might remember it was
only one month ago that David Grohl, who is the
lead singer of the Foo Fighters good guy, great guy,
great singer, great guy until nice guy of rock and
roll wasn't that what he was coined? He was he
(30:22):
was such he was like looked at as the most
wholesome man in rock and roll because he'd been with
his wife, Jordan Blum for like twenty one years, so
that is unheard of in the rock world. But he
did come out in September with this quote, I've recently
become the father of a new baby daughter born outside
of my marriage. I planned to be a loving and
supportive parent to her. I love my wife and my children,
(30:44):
and I'm doing everything I can to regain their trust
and earn their forgiveness. We're grateful for your consideration towards
all the children involved as we move forward together.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I mean, I know this happened a month ago, so
we're not unpacking this announcement because that's not the hot
new take. But imagine that being new or like, hey,
I had an affair, I love all my children, and
I'm trying to regain my wife's trust. That's her a
fair announcement, that's what that is, fully, And everyone's.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Like, oh my god, he's Sue, What an amazing man,
Like he's really own taking ownership and being honest. He's
been honest because it was going to come out anyway.
The bar is very low. But you're right, that's not
what we're talking about. What we're talking about now is
this idea of friendships and what happens after that. Should
you break up with a friend when they're going through
this situation if you don't believe in their relationship, if
you think your friend is going back to a toxic partner,
(31:29):
can you stand by them and maintain that friendship. The
reason we're having this discussion is a source close to Jordan.
Now we don't know what a source is, but apparently
someone close to the couple has come out saying she
doesn't think she can continue to support her friend Jordan
throughout this process because she doesn't believe the relationship is
healthy and she doesn't believe she should be going back
and staying in that marriage. What is your responsibility as
(31:50):
a friend? Are you entitled dump the friendship if you
don't like the person your partner's going back to.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I mean, there's so many layers to this, so to
just kind of give you a bit more backstory if
across it. I know that, like most people would have
heard of the news, but Jordan was originally photographed without
her wedding ring. She'd moved out of the family home,
and it seems like now a month later, when all
of the drama has probably subsided a tiny bit, she's
now been photograph wearing her wedding ring again, and she's
moved back into the family home. I have a lot
(32:17):
of feelings because, firstly, in my initial response is I
think that that is indicative of a pretty shitty friendship,
Like if you are going to abandon your friend because
they have chosen to stay with their cheating ex. To me,
all that does is it creates a situation where you're
driving them closer, and you're driving them further back to
their partner and to the person that they obviously still
love and are trying to work things out with. And
(32:39):
I think that that is the danger of an ultimatum,
right if you give your friend an ultimatum because you
hate their partner. The partner's not giving an ultimatum. The
partner's not there saying you need to choose this relationship
of your friends, or you'd hope that they're not doing that.
But when you're the friend who's giving your bestie that ultimatum,
you create an even bigger divide, and you don't stop
them from wanting to have their real lifelationship. You just
(33:00):
drive them closer to the person who you think is
toxic in the first place.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
This is what the source has said. Her bessies have
begged her to move forward with the split, not to
go back with him at any cost. One of her friends,
who's been a close confident for many years, even told
Jordan that she will lose respect for her if she
takes Dave back, and she'll walk away from their decades
long friendship. It makes me feel like there is more
to this story. It makes me feel like this has
(33:24):
been a very very ongoing private issue. Maybe it's not
a standalone issue that is just cheating. Maybe there's more
to their relationship that isn't healthy. Sometimes in a friendship,
when you have one person that has been going through
something for a very long time and they're really holding
onto it, and they're complaining a lot, and they're trauma
dumping on you a lot, but they're not doing anything
in their life to change it, it can get very
(33:46):
exhausting for the person that has to listen. They give
the same advice all the time, and they see their
friend go back and do the same thing over and
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
We do not know the foo fartist might be surprising
to you all, but Dave could have had multiple affairs.
This could have been a feature of their relationship for
a really long time. And I read this article. What
really made me feel something about it is this idea
that I will lose respect for you if you went
back to that relationship. I will lose respect for you
as a person if you go and be with that
(34:16):
person that is toxic and treating you badly. Surely, if
you love someone, if you care about them, as we
do with our friends, this idea of losing respect for them,
like we know that that comes from a sense of
low self esteem. It comes from a sense of feeling
as though they're not worthy or never going to have
anything better. It could come from a sense of feeling
like she's frightened to be alone. You don't know the
reasons why she's staying there. It may not just be
(34:38):
because she's like blindly in love and all forgiving. There's
so many reasons why people stay after cheating, and there's
so many reasons why people stay and try and repair
their relationships with that person who is you know, quote
unquote toxic in a relationship, it's okay to put boundaries
around the things that you want to talk about with
your friends. So if you do have a friend that
comes and they're constantly trauma dumping their terrible relationship on you,
(35:00):
and that becomes like a really frequent and common thing,
and they're never ever taking the advice or they're never
actioning anything, but they're always talking about it. Put boundaries
in place to say, look, I love you, but I
cannot keep listening to you talk about the thing that
makes you deeply unhappy over and over and know that
you're not going to do anything about it. Doesn't mean
you have to cut the person from your life or
cut the friendship from your life, especially not when that
(35:22):
person is going through potentially the hardest thing that they're
ever going to experience, and that is the public shame
and also the personal heartbreak that your partner's just had
an affair and had a baby with someone else.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Also, the source says, and this is the part that
like pisces me off a little bit. The source says,
one day, Jordan and Blum is ditching her wedding ring
and vowing divorce from cheating husband David Groll. The next
she's at home wearing the ring and sobbing because she
doesn't want the marriage to end. Standard that, to me,
is a pretty standard response. When you find out your
long term partner of twenty one years has cheated, Your
(35:53):
initial response is going to be to be upset, to
have space, to take your ring off, to be like
I need to work out what this is. Sounds like
she's worked out what she wants and now she's trying
to make her marriage work. One of the things we
have learned from a lot of the specialists we've spoken
to is that cheating isn't black and white, and it
is different for every person and every relationship. It also
(36:13):
doesn't have to be the end of a marriage. It's
very easy for us to all sit back and say, Yeah,
if my partner of twenty one years cheated on me
and had another child, I would be out that door.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And there will be people who do behave like that.
There will be people who have enough willpower, are strong
enough in their sense of self who would see that
as a complete deal breakup. But we can't impose our
thoughts and our feelings around a relationship on someone else
when we're not experiencing it and they are.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, we've got no idea what their life for twenty
one years has been, Like, we don have no idea
what he's saying to her or what their intimate moments are.
But I think the one thing we do know is
probably now is the time she needs a friends to
support her. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I mean I would be so curious to kind of
like throw this out to you, guys, like all the
life is listening. Have you ever had a friend be
affected by your friend dating someone who was treating them
in a toxic way or the relationship was toxic. Have
you ever had a friend who kept going back to
a relationship and that affected your friendship. I would say
so many people have, and I think that it's something
(37:14):
that unfortunately so many of us have to navigate. It
may mean that it affects your friendship, but I think
it's pretty rare to put a line in the sand
and say I won't be friends with you if you
go back to that person who cheated on you, because,
like I said, you're imposing your relationship standards on that person.
And at the end of the day, it's their story,
it's their relationship, and it's the choice they need to
(37:36):
get to that place themselves that they make that decision
for themselves, because nobody is ever going to make the
decision to leave a relationship because somebody outside of that
relationship gave them an ultimatum. It doesn't work like that.
I find it's so interesting that overarchingly the press that
he has received has been considering what's happened.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
It's been relatively positive.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
The overarching commentary that was being published at the time
was at least he did the right thing and acknowledged
his illegitimate child, you know, his child out of wedlock.
I mean it was almost like trying to frame him
as though he's still a nice guy and still a
good guy and he's trying to repair his relationships. But
on the flip side to that, now, the person that
should feel shameful, or the person that should be super embarrassed,
(38:18):
or the person whose behavior or decision making is under
scrutiny is the wife who did nothing wrong. Like she
has done nothing wrong in this instance, this is something
that has happened to her from the outset. We're all
judging the decisions that she makes when she's just trying
to navigate something that she has absolutely no fucking control over,
and it's just ripped her family and her life apart.
(38:39):
So I can understand why after twenty one years, it's
not as simple as just walking away, taking off your
wedding ring and calling your husband at you know, every
name and explicit under the sun. I think that when
you find out this type of information, you would be
filled with utter rage, and then once the utter rage
kind of starts to subside. You're filled with so much
grief around the fact that your relationship is never going
(39:01):
to be what it used to be. And I think
that's the point where we see people try to claw
back to be with the person that you know from
the outset. Everyone else is still like, why the hell
would you want to be with that guy?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I'm not that shocked by that, Laura. We've seen historically
over and over again that the media love issues with
women between women, between friendships, and you're not going to
ever see I can guarantee you the rest of the
FOO fighters going to Dave and saying, hey, we're going
to break up with this friendship and this band is
breaking up because we don't condone you cheating on your wife,
(39:32):
we don't condone you fothering a child out of wedlock.
We will always continue to see it with women in media.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, And I think it's really sad that in these
instances that that's what it comes back to, right, It
comes back to how she is going to be framed
and this idea of losing respect for her, But there's
not been any conversations around losing respect for him.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
It's time for accidentally unfiltered. And I have a very
embarrassing one one that I this is not mine, but
one that I read and I cringe on the inside.
I was once seeing this guy. We were laying in
bed watching a movie on my laptop when my friend
sent a text which popped up on the screen and said,
has he learned to kiss yet? Or is he still shit? Oh?
(40:19):
We both saw it. I saw that he saw it,
and I had to awkwardly attempt to cover it up
by explaining to him that no, indeed, you actually were
really good. I can confirm, though the kissing never got better.
Would you not die?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
There isn't no way to dig up from that. There
is no way, because the only other thing to say
is it's not about you.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
It's just as bad. I'd say I'm seeing multiple people.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I'd say, sorry, God, confession, I'm seeing someone else cheating
on you, Like I'm not about this, because I think
if someone's a really bad kisser, you're never going to
stay with them. No one's having a long term relationship
with someone who can't kiss.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Well. Then it comes into question, are you supposed to
tell them? Do you teach them? Yes? I think that
you do but I don't think you have to like teach them,
teach them, but I think you teach them with your mouth.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I don't know if you can. I have experienced a
very bad kissing, and I'm not sure if you can lead.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
You know, you can lead a horse to water, but
you can't make him drink. No, you can. There's definitely
particular types of kids because everyone likes something different, right,
Like he might kiss someone this poor terrible kisser might
kiss someone that thinks he's a great kisser. Maybe that's
why he does what he does, same as your rex.
You still like fuck people's legs. Everyone's everyone likes different stuff.
But I think what you can do is like just say,
(41:30):
someone's a bit tonguey, bit mouthy, so you show them
what you want. So you don't open your mouth, You
keep those purse closed, lips little flicker when you need it,
you kiss them like a nanner. But I think that,
I mean, for sure, sometimes there's only so much you
can do, Like, there's only so much of that before
someone's just not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
There is nothing, No, there's plenty of things, but it's
pretty high up there. Nothing worse there is nothing more
of a turnoff than someone who is a bad kisser.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Like, it's a real turn off. John On the only
guy in the rooms. Like when you're kissing someone and
you don't like it, and you are trying to like
get them to read the room, so you're like trying
to pull back, but they keep leaning forward. It happened
recently on Love is Blind when I was watching it
and I was cringing watching it. I was like, read
the room. She's like pulling back and he kept leaning
(42:18):
on and leaning on, and he was laying on it.
It was on TV. It was awkward, and I was like,
she's evidently not trying to be sexy, and like, I
will leave you want.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I just want to really make it clear.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
That we are not being paid by Love is Blood. No,
we just love it. It's the fourth episode. But yes,
I know exactly Leo, you know the scene. I know
exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
He kept putting his hand behind her head.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
It was so like it will make every hair.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
On your body stand up because you're just like I
can see how much she does not want to be there.
I don't think anyone's going to be confused with us
being paid by love is blind. We have only shit
on things that has happened like, but there's not never
been like, oh you must watch it. We're like, this
is awful, this is awful. This perspective mass okay. I
would dare say that every single person can viscerally recall
(43:05):
at least one person that was a horrible kiss and
it instantly turned them off. I can think of two
who name them. Tennis guy now maj Jo's great kisser,
he'd want to be practice betweenty nine tennis guy, fuck
off tennis guy, and a police officer terrible.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, but here's a question. Let's roll reversal. You're in bed,
you're watching a movie with this guy that you're dating,
and on his screen off message pops up there says
has she learned to kiss yet? Or is it still shit?
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I pretend like I haven't seen it, and then I
never call him again.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I'm no, I ask him for sure. I want nothing
to do with that. But do you know what, I'm
too awkward. I wouldn't be angry. I think I'd be like,
why didn't you tell me? That's what I'd say. I'd
be like I was like, do you not. I would
just put them on the spot because I don't like
do you not like the way we make out? And
I would hope that there'd be a constructive conversation where
I'm like, well, like, please tell me, because I would
love you to know.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Good from you. You sound like someone who's been to therapy.
I'd be like, Oh, that's awkward.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I've been through a lot. Let's avoid this. You like
you want to have sex.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I feel like, oh, I guess what a pretty woman style?
Then all right, what is your suck on your sweet
for the week?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Your suck of the week is that my tire has
a nailing it my car tire and I now have
a slow leak that I have to fill up. I
filled it up yesterday thinking I just had a low tire.
Then I came to work this morning and it was
like an immediate drop, which means there is a nailing
that bad boy, But it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Was fifteen minutes late because you had to go and
do a little Is it called PSI?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
PSI? That's the pressure. That is a suck?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And also, I don't want to be you this afternoon
walking back to your car because you're gonna have flat tire.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
My sweet is probably I just had a really nice
dinner with our very good friend, co host Mitch Cherry
and his boyfriend Steven, so it's nice. I've met his partner,
Stephen quite a few times, but I feel like we're
at that point now where we're really getting to know
each other because I think it's important to know your
friend's people, you know, like this is your yeah, your
friend's heart. Well, I have not met him yet. No,
I know you haven't because you're always away yourself every
(44:55):
single weekend. So that was my sweet, which is a
really nice dinner. I had a few venos, so I
haven't been drinking much lately, so I just had a
great weekend. I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I also saw that you guys were out together, and
I felt very sad even though I was away.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I was like, I want to be there. You were
literally away with a group of friends. I was away
my sweet for the week.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I don't have a suck, So I'm skipping past the
suck because I think it is like, apart from Marley
getting kind of like, you know, picked on, there was
no suck. But my sweet for the week is I
had a really beautiful experience where we were at the
pool and Mally, she is so social, and she was
talking to this lady and she'd been talking to this
lady for ages. The woman was watching her name was Amanda,
and she was watching Taylor Swift live over in the States,
(45:33):
and Marley was obsessed with it, so she kept going
over wanting to watch it. I was very conscious around imposing,
like on her time, and also like Marley spending too
much time over there, and that being annoying when they're
trying to have a holiday. Yeah, well not even that,
just they're trying to have a holiday nicely themselves, and like,
my kid is annoying their parents' solo time. I went
over and I apologized, and this woman said, look, it's
(45:54):
absolutely fine, and she was like, I want to share
something with you. She said, it's really special to get
to spend time I'm with a little girl who's so
interested in talking to me. And she shared with me
that she had lost her six year old daughter Ava.
It was two years since Ava had passed away. And
I had this moment on the weekend, which was like
quite profound because I always say to Maley, or I
(46:16):
don't say to Marley directly, but I always say to map.
We're always like, how kids are so lucky. They have
no idea how lucky they are.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
That in that moment, I.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Had this real realization that I was like, we don't
realize how lucky we are. It was really beautiful to
get to know this lady and I had a really
nice conversation with her, and I felt very special that
she shared with me some of the stories around what
happened two years ago to her and to her family,
and yeah, it was it was just a really nice
It was a really nice moment, and it really was
something not that you need someone else's grief to make
(46:45):
you appreciate the things that you have in life, but
it really was a moment where I stopped focusing on
how lucky our kids are, and genuinely how lucky I
feel to have healthy kids who are able to run
around and you know, be out there in the world.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, but sometimes that's the reminder you need. And as
horrible as that sounds, perspective is a wonderful thing. Yeah,
And we can get very lost and stuck in the
negativity and sometimes it's nice to be like reminded, Oh, yeah,
I don't have anything to worry about.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Well, that's it, and that's also why I like there's
no stuck this week. But shout out to Amanda. She's
also a listener and yeah, I felt very special to
meet her. So that is it from us, guys, thanks
so much for listening to another episode. If you love
the app, go leave a review, you know, come and
join us over at Life Uncut Discussion group on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
You can watch it on the YouTube channels.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
There's so many places where you can get all of
your life Uncut stuffs and you know the drill.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So mum to dadte dot ta, friends and share the
love because we love love
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
welcome back to another episode of Life.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm cut, I'm Laura, I'm Brittany. Happy Tuesday. How is
your weekend, Laura.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I have a really sore hand. I woke up with
it for no reason. And it's another one of those
moments where you're like, oh, you just with your hand
for no reason. No, like an unusual ache, like a pain.
I was like, I'm getting old. Maybe I have arthriders.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Now I have that unusual ache in my heart. Oh
my god, I wish I was joking. It hurts, But continue.
Tell me about your arth wriders. How let's talk about
your aching heart. My heart aches you?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay, that sounds that's at burn, Yes, indigestion. It's also
just because we're getting old. Didn't have a lot of
night shows last night.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
No, what's this as rider?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I nothing, like, literally nothing, but I woke up and
I can't for some reason this part of my hand
and I can't lift things. I have like half the
amount of power in my hand that I normally have.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Because you do have powerful hands, usually I only have
half the power. We don't know what it could be.
I had that once and now it's wow, the name's
just gone out of my head. Where you have like
the little bubble in the joint in your hand, ganglion,
have a ganglion and you have The old school way
to get rid of it was to slam a Bible
(01:27):
onto your wrist.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
You have, Oh my god, Keisha, can we do it live?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Give me a hard book that we've got we love
love behind us.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now it needs to be a hardcover. I have seen
people do this on Instagram. I don't know where I
am in the algorithm of Instagram, but I have. I
have been fed quite a few of these videos where
people have that bump on their hand and then a
doctor or someone I think it's not a doctor, but
someone comes along and smacks it with a book and
it pops the ganglion again.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I just always have to laugh at how different our
Instagram feeds are. You're you're hitting arthritis and ganglions. It
is true. So I had one, but mine popped. I
saw mine pop live. I was getting an ultrasound on it,
and the pressure from the ultrasound pro popped it and
I saw it disperse. So maybe you have a ganglion.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Maybe not, though maybe I've just did something from picking
up Lola. She's Lola is like twenty something kilos, and
she thinks she's a newborn. If she could still be
breastfed and suckling inside my shirt, she would wow.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Ben thinks he's a newborn still too. It's starting to
make a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I ever saw hand from carrying him as well, nursing
Ben like a baby.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh dear, No, he just likes to suckle. Yeah, so
you have to. Well, that's probably why you saw the
way around twenty kilos all day.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
The words suckle and the visual image of a full
grown man. It doesn't do it for me. It's not sexy,
it's not you know, hey, you want to suckle?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
All right? Moving right along. So, how was your actual weekend?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
No, my weekend was good. We had the last This
out so ridiculous because I feel like every weekend we've
had like a mini getaway. You do, you have had
a lot, We've had a lot of little getaways. We
had our last mini getaway before what is like the
hell fire of November and December for Tony May. So
like October is chill. October is manageable. As soon as
(03:17):
we get into November when everyone else is kind of
like looking towards the end of the year and thinking
that things are calming down. It is probably out. Oh,
I mean that's not even probably. It is our busiest
time of the year for Tony May. So I no
more nomal holidays, no more fun. It was our last
little mini weekend away. We went away with some really
good friends and their kids. And if you were an
(03:38):
og lifer, you're gonna laugh at this. Do you guys
remember how I was talking about the friends that I
made at the park and how I made Matt stalk
them on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
We're such good friends now that we do weekends away together. Okay,
so we really got in there. Do you want to
know why this is funny? It's because they're my friends
now too. How do you know that I know your
whole weekend before you talk? Oh, because you go to
the same We have saunas. We're in a sauna together yesterday,
We're all talking about your weekend and he's like, I'm
sure Laura will feel you in. He's like, our kids
(04:08):
just get along so well. I'm like, I know, He's
like we were park friends. I was like, I know.
I was like I know everyone's stories, like, okay, if
you're not across it.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Basically, we just met this family in the park this
one day, and we thought they had kids the same
age as our kids, and we all hit it off.
And then I said to Matt, like, it's so hard
to make adult friends when you have children and you
kind of you know, unless you make friends in the workplace,
it's really hard to meet new friends with people who
you think are similar to you and you vibe with
are your people? Yeah, And I was like, Matt, when
(04:36):
we just met in the park, and we're never going
to see these people again, and that'll be such a shame.
And Matt was like, well, actually I do know where
he works, so why don't I just try.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And find them on LinkedIn? And we did that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And it's so weird to say that out loud because
it makes us sound like such absolute creeps, but I'm
okay with it. So hearing his version yesterday in the
sauna was so funny because no, just funny because he
thinks I'm hearing a story for the first time, but
I already know, like the other party's version, your version.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But the way he was saying it was like you guys.
It was like, you know, when you want to track
someone down for a date. He was saying, it was
like it was like romantic. His oh, it was no,
we have the same version. He was like, but he
wasn't trying to be funny.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I was like, leave your keys in the bowl and
let's just see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
He was like, so we met, you know, we met
through some friends at the park and then like we
were like, why not to start a WhatsApp group and
very sporadically be like, hey, guys, is anyone going to
the park today at four? And then we're like, I'll
be there. And then it was all this nervousness meeting
and then he's like and then the time came where
we thought should we escalate this? And Matt was like,
should we take this to the next level? Should we
(05:39):
go away for a week. It's because making new friends
is hard, guys.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Actually, look, something happened on the weekend that I would
love your thoughts on. A conversation that I had with
Matt quite often is around like resilience building and kids,
and like, if you don't have kids, you might not
find this very interesting. But hear me out because I
think most parents are just winging it, and we're trying
to do the best job that we possibly can.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
We've read a few books.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
If you're lucky, We've listened to a few podcast episodes,
and no one knows what they're doing, not even the
people who say that they know what they're doing and
try and give the advice. We constantly had this conversation
around how do you build resilience in children when their
lives are seemingly pretty good?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
And I say this because growing up, my childhood wasn't great,
and I know that I got resilience in the bucket
loads like resilience.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Came at me.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Now, I'm not saying that I think kids need to
go through really horrible hardships in order to grow up
and have gratitude.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
And have character and have characters like I have no trauma.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Clearly not. I would rather not have had her an
addict stepdad. But look, the character building was good, and
now I'm funny off the back of it.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You are only who you are because of him, So
have you thanked him to Your kids are going nowhere?
They got to roof over their head and no drugs.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
They literally, yeah, you don't know how good you've got it.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I'm going to become an adict and then you deal
with this. Fuck. We can't joke. We shouldn't joke. Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So kids, my kids, they're very very lucky, right, They
go away all nice weekends away, they have beautiful friends.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Like you know, they get a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And I'm not saying we don't buy them things as
in like they're not getting loads of presents and stuff
like that, but they want for nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I've never been away with you or you haven't brought
them a present back from the airport every time. That's different.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's when I go away without them because I'm buying
them back with my guilt.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Guilt.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, it's guilt love. So that's different. That's working, mum,
guilt love. So okay. On the weekend, we were at
the pool and Mary had made friends with these little
girls and everything was going swimmingly funny or not mind
the pun.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
We got that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And then and then a little while after they had
been playing together, which what seemed really nicely, the older girl,
who was probably about five or six years older than Mally,
had said to her friends and she didn't know that
we could hear her. She obviously didn't know that we
were Mally's parents. She said to her friends, Oh my god,
does anyone like this girl? Let's lose her and swim
(07:58):
away from her. And then they were playing a game
between them where they were trying to run away from Marlee.
Now Molly's only five years old, so she didn't understand
that this is what was happening. And I was trying
to say to her, like, Marley, come and play with
your friends, like come over here, yeah, maybe, like let's
give them some time to themselves. And Marley really was like, no, Mommy,
they're my friends. I want to play with them. So
(08:18):
it was this moment where I was like, I know
you're going to get your little heart crushed. Do I intervene?
Do I let this run its course? Like is this
a learning moment for a child to realize like what
a social pecking order is?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Or do I intercept this? My advice would have been
do exactly what you did, Like you try and step
in without telling her and say, you know, like let's
give them some space, let's play over here, without saying
they don't want you. Keisha's in the corner, like I
will drop kick that kid, no, I want names and addresses.
I think I think it's super normal. It's a part
(08:52):
of growing up, unfortunately, And I think that for both
of those parties. You said that they're both only five
or six, it's a steep learning curve for Marley to
know that not everyone is always going to like you
or want to play with you, and for the other
girl as well, she's also learning on how to treat people.
And I'm not saying that that is right, but this
is These are like formative years that you are learning.
And from what you're saying, it doesn't sound like they
(09:13):
were being mean to her face. It sounded like they
had made the decision that they didn't want to be
in that situation, and they were like, to the other girls,
let's just get out of it.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, it's way better to be mean behind people's back
one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
You don't get caught. No. But I think, I think
equally for both of them, this is a part of
growing up, and I think we do. I'm not a parent,
but I have a lot of nieces and nephews and
a lot of friends with kids. I also, Spoiler was
a child once. I think we bubble wrap our kids too.
Much these days, and we want to protect them. And
I understand that. Of course, you don't want your kids
to go through things. You don't want to see them sad,
(09:45):
fall and over hurt physically or you know, metaphorically like
me with my broken heart. But I just think it's
a part of it. And I think sometimes you have
to as a parent step back and let your child
work it out. If you do everything for them all
the time, they're not gonna be able to do anything
for themselves when they're older.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it was genuinely it was a good lesson because
we had that moment where we were like protective parents
and wanted to get involved, and then both Matt and
I had you know, a little bit of a chat
and we were like, you know what it's this is
for Mali to work out because as parents, we can't
constantly be fixing her problems. She needs to learn to
fix these problems herself, or she needs to figure out
and have and understand the social cues of when someone
(10:21):
does or doesn't want to play with her. And funnily enough,
like she is a tenacious little kid and she's very social.
So by the end of the holiday, she had won
them over. They were like coming up to play with her,
so I was like.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Go you and would just warm down. They're like, we
can't swim anymore. Just don't have it in this.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
But I don't know, it's really hard when you kind
of like see your kid being left out or something.
You know, it's really hard to have the self control
because you want to fix the problem.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You're not always going to win. So I don't believe
in all these participation awards, like you know, people do
come first, second, and third, and people are not going
to be good at stuff. You're not going to be
the first person picked for a sporting team. You're not
always going to get the job that you go for. Like,
we need to be let down, we need to feel
what that feels like and what you made a really
good point, Laura, But she needs to learn those social cures.
(11:04):
So a child, maybe she needs to learn that they
didn't want to play with her in that time so
that she can reflect on those actions throughout the day
and she's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
That's what that was, not even like reflecting. It's not
as though she's done something wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's no, it's just learning.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think my big lesson from this,
and it's probably the first real time where I've had
to put it in action. Is this understanding that as
a parent, I can't fix all her problems, and I
shouldn't want to fix her problems because that's where resilience
building is going to come from, her learning the skills
to go, Okay, how do I deal with this situation?
And what's my social awareness around this?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Maybe we managed it in an okay way, but yeah,
I was. It broke my little heart to see her
being left out of something and not being able to
do anything and having to just stand by and watch
an unfold.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, and she won them over in the end. Good
on her, she got there. Yeah, that's what you do.
Wear them down. Yeah, you never take no for an answer.
Can saying well, our weekends were markedly different.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Let me say that I know you're in a sauna
for it, Like, I mean, so that whole guys. Actually,
I did see you posting on Instagram and I'm I'm
pretty certain you spent the entire weekend in a sauna.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah. I'm really hard into my sauna era because it's
just across the road from me. So I do live
in there. It's supposed to make me live longer. That's
what I've read. Chris Hemsworth said it in Limitless, the
documentary series that he did. The funniest thing happened. But
I need you guys to come along this journey and
imagine it with me, because this is very descriptive. But
I went out to dinner with Mitch our radio hosts,
and his boyfriend Stephen. We went to our local outdoor restaurant.
(12:32):
Everyone in Australia, not everyone Australian. It's just a it's
a restaurant where we live in Bonday. But it has
like this lush outdoor courtyard. It's like very fancy and
open and like it's nice. It's got a romantic feel anyway.
So we're outside and I need you to understand what
the chairs are. So the chairs are like almost if
you think of those old chairs that you take to
(12:54):
a barbecue or something, or maybe even camping, but a
bit fancier that the ones that fold out their wooden
They have like that calico canvas back. Lovely, so you
know the canvas back that slides over the post. Very
europe picnic vibes. But can you picture that the canvas back. Okay,
slides down over the back. So's boyfriend Stephen. We're sitting
there with wines all fancy. Mitch's boyfriend Steven. I don't
(13:16):
even know how you can do this. He had his
jacket his coat over the back of his chair. Stand it.
The night goes on, it gets a bit colder. He
decides to put his jacket on, so he pulls back,
lifts his jacket up, puts his jacket on, and then
goes to lean back in the chair. We all know
where you're going with there's no back. He falls through
(13:40):
the whole chair onto the ground in front of the
whole courtyard with the glass red wine because the canvas
from the back of the chair got stuck in the jacket.
He pulled the jacket up, the canvas was in it.
He didn't know. He put the canvas backing of the
chair around his body like wrapped like a hug, and
then just leant back with so much confidence. I have
never laughed so hard in my life, Like one of
those moments where you be embarrassed because you like and
(14:02):
then he couldn't understand. He was like, I don't understand
where where it's gone. It's like the way someone did
this to me. Yes, I've been set up. It's like
a prank and he's like, where's my We couldn't work
it out for so long until we're like, hang on
a minute, looked in his jacket and the whole camp
scene was wrapped his jacket, Like you couldn't you couldn't
script this shit. So literally, that's about as exciting as
(14:22):
my weekend got. Wow. I know.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
You guys might have seen that. Last week was the
return of the Victoria Secret Runway show. We've spoken about
Victoria's Secrets over the last couple of years. Back in
twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two, we've done two
episodes around the rebrand, around the very questionable ethics and
culture behind the brand itself. And since twenty nineteen, the
(14:50):
iconic Victoria's Secret Angels show had been rested because of
so much controversy, failing ratings, and also because of how
much the brand had dipped in sales and profits because
of the controversy that it had received. Now it has
made a comeback and it has really tried to embody
this idea of body inclusivity and diversity. A new brand
strategy that they have been heralding since twenty twenty. But
(15:13):
the question that we have is whether or not that
is an authentic brand change, and whether or not it's
possible for a brand that was so entrenched in diet
culture and in heroing one type of beauty standards for
so long, whether or not they're able to make this
complete backflip.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Well, back in May, Victoria's Secret had promised that the
show would reflect who they are today plus everything you
know and love, so the glamour, the runway, the wings,
the musical entertainment, and so much more. If you guys
have seen the shows, there always is really huge over
the top productions. What we did see were models of
all ages, new models that have never hit the Victoria's
(15:51):
Secret runway before. We saw Kate moss make her debut.
You know, Kate Moss's in her fifties. Tyra Banks was there.
She closed the show. Tyra Banks was an original Victoria's Secrets.
Now she is also in her fifties and she is
probably now included as quote unquote body diverse because she's
a little bit older. She talks about how she's put
on weight and she's in a different phase of her life.
What we did see though, was a very very pared
(16:13):
back version of a Victoria's Secrets runway show. The platform
and the runway was on the same level as everyone
was seated. All the seating for the guests were on
the same level. They were very basic chairs. It was
far less over the top, and the purpose of that
was supposed to be so that we are looking at
the models and what they are wearing the product, as
(16:34):
opposed to it being this show that is purely aravaganza. Yeah,
it's supposed to be so it's not this show that's
just for entertainment. I think personally they did that part
of it very well.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's interesting because I don't care so much about the
structure of the show, Like I don't care about the
bells and whistles or how the show was put together.
What I am so fascinated by is whether or not
a brand can completely change the identity like the DNA
of the brand, whether they can kind of come back
from the controversy that they faced if you guys aren't
across it all. So, I think it is important to
(17:05):
kind of lay down the backstory of this because it
goes beyond just being a brand that's not size inclusive
and obviously contributed to so much of the diet culture.
There was a lot of really insidious reports that came
out of Victoria's Secret. So back in twenty nineteen, that
was a time when many conversations around Jeffrey Epstein were
in media. But to give you the backstory, so Les
(17:26):
Wexner he was the billionaire founder and Ed Razzik he
was the right hand man of Victoria's Secret. Now, there
were so many reports that came out of sexual assault.
There were reports that came out around the culture of
Victoria's Secret, and for any of the models who had
came forward. So the angels who had come forward and
reported this type of conduct, they had been punished by
(17:47):
no longer getting placed within the show. So it was
almost a situation where if you came out and you
spoke about the treatment that you'd receive from within the company,
you'd be punished for it.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So your career or justice.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So Les Wexner, he founded L Brand, which is a
global retail empire that includes Victoria's Secret bath and body works.
He was also the CEO for more than five decades
of the company. Wexner announced in twenty twenty that he
was going to step down and sell his majority stake
in Victoria's Secret for five hundred and twenty five million
dollars to a private equity firm, but he didn't sell
all of it, so he still profits from Victoria's Secrets
(18:19):
in some way. And the reason why he's linked to
Jeffrey Epstein is because he was the financial manager and
ex confidante of Les Wexner. So it is like the murkiest,
muddiest backstory as to how Victoria's Secret came to be
when you look at it with that lens. The thing
that's different now though, and to kind of bring it
forward into twenty twenty four, is that there is a
(18:40):
new CEO and her name is Hilary Super. She is
the former CEO of Rihanna's popular brand, which is Savage,
so it's a very very body conscious and body inclusive
brand and they have placed her as a CEO as
a real statement that they are trying to make massive
changes as a brand itself.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think it's amazing that they have appointed her as
the head because without doubt we can say that the
problems came from those men that were in charge of
Victoria's Secrets at the time, they have made a huge
conscious effort to make it very female dominated. And I
say that because everyone there was female, all the entertainment
was female like. That was a conscious decision from them.
But I think the question now is can a company
(19:20):
as large as Victoria's Secrets that has such a problematic
past have the opportunity to rebrand and make a comeback.
That's the question that everyone's asking, and from what I
have seen online, the discourse is kind of it's a
bit of a b to be. There's a bunch of
people saying, yes, you've come back, you've nailed it, you've listened.
I don't know, And then there's a bunch of people
that'll say, we will never forgive and forget what you
(19:42):
did or the messaging that your brand put out to
the world six years ago. To be honest, I've gone
back and forward on my opinion on this, but I
do think that I am the former. I think that
we can give them the opportunity to make amends and
make a change, apologize, say you've lived, and make the
improvements that we, as a consumer told them that we
(20:04):
wanted to see. I don't think we can hold it
against a company as a whole. If we know that
there are two three really problematic people, we know the
messaging wasn't great, but also the messaging was of its
great terrific. Yes, but it was of its time. That's
why it was that And I hate saying that, but
it's remiss not to make that point. It was of
its time. That is why this show was so big.
(20:27):
But then can we hold it against a brand when
we have spoken and they have taken six years out,
they have done what they think is their best to listen,
and they have brought something back. I, in this sense,
think that we can show a little bit of forgiveness
and say, okay, look, I think they tried to tried
to listen.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I think it's interesting because I don't have as much
grace for a brand as what I might do for
an individual. So like a brand is a profiting company,
and I guess my take on the Victoria secret is
like I don't have as much grace as what you do, Britt.
And I think about it in terms of all of
these models that have come on board. Ashley Graham is
one of them, and I was following what she was
saying on social media because she was one of the
real body inclusive women who fronted the Catwalk show.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I think she calls herself a plus size model.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
She does, I mean, which is like in and of itself.
I'm like, you know, some people are okay with using
plus size model and some people don't like that terminology.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
But she does use it. Yeah, it should just be modeled.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
For these women to front this brand, they would have
had to have been paid an exorbitant amount of money,
right because nobody, no one in their right fucking mind
is putting their name to the brand of Victoria's Secret
without being remunerated in a way, and with that also
being shown that there is like tangible long term change.
(21:37):
And I understand that it may be Victoria's Secret's intention
to have tangible long term change. I'm not discrediting that
they've got a brand new strategy, but I think their
hand was forced to come up with that strategy. They
are a publicly listed company where they have massive amounts
of shareholders and so many people that are literally reliant
on that company being profitable. Their profits were dismal. They
(21:59):
had the greatest loss around twenty nineteen when they were
forced to make these changes. So I think they were
put between a rock and a hard place. They had
to change, they had to pivot because they were forced
to do so. I don't think it came from this
altruistic place of wanting to do it because it was
the right thing to do. I think it was a
performative thing. And now the blocks of the pieces of
(22:20):
the puzzle have fallen into place.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
But of course they were forced to change. That's what
evolution is. We're all forced to change once we put
something out to the world, whether it's an opinion, a
thought process, a product. We listened to the feedback and
we see, oh, okay, that's failing because of this, this
and this. That's what Victoria's Secrets did. To be honest,
I don't think the reason matters as much as what
they've done to fix it. But I have grace for
(22:42):
people and companies who have made a mistake and then
are actively trying to fix it after listening to feedback.
Everybody is going to make mistakes, but it's what they
do as a company or an individual to try and
rectify that problem. And I personally think whether you are
across and for Victoria's Secrets in terms of the idea
of that we have a show dedicated to women walking
(23:03):
and runway in lingerie. Like, maybe you don't like that
at all.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Maybe you do for me, Oh, I don't have a
problem with women walking laundry and it's great.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm not saying you, I'm saying the listener anyone, whether
you have because there are a lot of people that
think that we shouldn't even be doing this. At the
end of the day, I think it's another product that
we're modeling. So it doesn't bother me at all. Having
a runway dedicated to lingerie and sleep wear and sexy
things like that. I don't care about that. But do
you think that we are too hard on people when
they make their apologies or when they try to make
(23:30):
their comeback? Because Victoria's secrets, in my eyes, I looked
at them and I'm like, Okay, you've now toned the showback.
You've taken all the glamour out. You don't have the
fantasy briar anymore because no one actually buys it. You
don't have the extravagant wings anymore because it was irrelevant.
You've got products that people buy. You've put inclusivity in
there in terms of diversity, transgender models. You have models
(23:50):
in their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, you have models of color,
and there's still people complaining. There's just a part of
me that thinks, Okay, you guys have told them what
your issues are. They've made changes, but it's still not enough.
And I do think sometimes we get to a point
where we're just out with our pitchforks, and sometimes it
will never be enough.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, I personally, I think a brand that has done
that much damage, that has such a cedy pass, where
the X founder and CEO of five decades still profits
from it, I don't think it's a brand that we
should be putting our money towards when there are so
many other brands that consumers can choose, when you can
literally be buying your lingerie products from Rihanna. And don't
(24:32):
get me wrong, I'm not saying that the change isn't tangible.
I'm not saying that they're doing everything that they can
possibly do now to be presented as a diverse brand.
Their profit share has gone up by eighteen percent this
year alone, so it's definitely working for them. It was
a smart and tactical move. Do I think it comes
from an altruistic place, and that they are a company
that I want to forgive and put my money into.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And the reason for that is because I think that
the damage that that brand did to diet culture is
so long since. Look, I don't normally believe in cancel culture.
I think that a lot of people can come back
from it. Do I think that a brand that has
had such a long term impact on the way women
feel about their bodies should have the opportunity to rebrand.
I don't really think that they should. That's my opinion
(25:16):
on it.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, but I also agree with that that's not the question.
That's not what we're talking about. Of course, we don't
think that somebody that was accused of sexual assault and
bullying harassment should be profiting. We didn't even know that
until yesterday, Until we researched this. People the general public
don't know he's still attached, which is a problem in itself, right.
We are all made to believe that he had left
the building. It was taken over by a new bunch
(25:36):
of people who really cared about giving back and making
the right changes. To be clear, of course, people in
that industry shouldn't still be profiting and that upsets me greatly.
I don't personally buy from Victoria's Secrets. But my question
that I'm posing is not about that as much. It
is about can somebody from six years ago who was
problematic and not putting out the great messaging do we
(25:57):
give them the grace to rebrand or do we hold
that against them for the rest of their life?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah? Look, I mean I think that there's a few
interesting parts of this. And Ashley Graham, who is someone
who I love following on Instagram. I think she is
brilliant in the way she speaks and I love her messaging.
She obviously spearheaded the Catwalk Show and she posted this,
which I can only imagine. When you are someone who
stands for body inclusivity and then you've made the choice
(26:23):
to represent a brand like Victoria's Secret, you know that
it could come with backlash, right, so you need to
be very clever and very careful with how you craft
your pr announcement that you're joining a brand like this.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Especially when six seven years ago you were a voice
saying that this is not okay.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Absolutely so, this is what she said when Victoria's Secret
first reached out. I'll be honest, I hesitated, well, thank
god for that. For years, the brand didn't feel like
it was made for someone like me. Their vision of
beauty seemed narrow, as if something they created was just
for one type of body and it wasn't mine. But
after sitting down with the leadership a Victoria's Secret, I
saw real change. They were excited to have me join
(27:01):
the show and assured me this wasn't just a one
time thing. The curve models weren't just a symbol. Victoria's
Secret genuinely want to be a part of the body
diversity revolution. They shared their commitment to embracing body diversity
in a lasting, meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So I said yes.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I said yes to representing all of us to show
up for everybody that's ever felt unseen. And that's a
journey I am proud to walk now. That is very powerful.
That type of celebrity endorsement goes a really, really long
way in changing your mentality around a brand and around
what a brand stands for. And I guess I do
come back to this idea that I think that they
(27:38):
have made great steps. They have put the right women
in leadership positions to create a brand that stands for
something different to what it used to stand for. I
just don't think that we can completely negate the history
of when there's so many other options and so many
other people that you can put your money towards. I
know that I, as a consumer, would prefer to choose
a small business, a small company, a female led startup,
(27:59):
where I know that the money is going towards something
that always had the intention of doing good in the world,
rather than creating the situation and the conversation the Victoria's
Secret did for so long.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Also, as someone Laura that's followed actually Graham for so long,
like you said, you've loved following her along for a while,
how did you feel, as someone that sort of knows
her story, respects her, loves her when she made that statement,
what did you think? Were you like, bullshit, you've been
paid a lot or were you like this is great.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I thought, wow, they must have paid you a lot
of money.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I was like, wow, Victoria's Secret has has huge pockets
in order to make this rebrand work.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
That's what I thought.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
And the people that they have on board are some
incredible talent who I think a lot of people have
deep and great respect for and the only reason why
that talent it's probably twofold. I'm not saying it's just money,
but it is because of this new CEO, Hillary super
who people obviously have trust for. That's why she's been
put in the position of CEO to create trust with
the brand. But I would also say that there is
(28:55):
a massive monetary part of this.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah. I also say go hand in hand. Yeah, but
I think too. If if you've dedicated your life, like
let's use Ashley Graham to being a body inclusive model
whose messaging is to make everyone feel comfortable, you're fighting
to be seen on the runway so that people like
you feel seen. There's obviously going to be a really
huge part of you that's like, Okay, I know what
(29:19):
their past is, but I have fought for this moment,
So who am I then to say no? If a
brand has come as big as Victoria's Secret saying we
are making changes and we want you to be a
part of this new chapter, it'd be pretty hard to
say no when you're like, Okay, I've fought for this
for so long. Then they come and offer it to
me and I say no. I can understand why money
aside no doubt she got paid a mota, but money aside,
(29:42):
I can understand why she's like, yeah, I do want
to be known to have been one of the first
body inclusive models to hit the runway. For Victoria's Secrets,
I get that. I get wanting to really put what
you've worked so hard for for so many years into play.
I think we talk a lot about the effects cheating has,
obviously on the romantic relationship you're in, But what we
(30:02):
don't see a lot or talk a lot about is
the flow on effect that cheating has on other relationships,
like your friendships. Now, you guys might remember it was
only one month ago that David Grohl, who is the
lead singer of the Foo Fighters good guy, great guy,
great singer, great guy until nice guy of rock and
roll wasn't that what he was coined? He was he
(30:22):
was such he was like looked at as the most
wholesome man in rock and roll because he'd been with
his wife, Jordan Blum for like twenty one years, so
that is unheard of in the rock world. But he
did come out in September with this quote, I've recently
become the father of a new baby daughter born outside
of my marriage. I planned to be a loving and
supportive parent to her. I love my wife and my children,
(30:44):
and I'm doing everything I can to regain their trust
and earn their forgiveness. We're grateful for your consideration towards
all the children involved as we move forward together.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I mean, I know this happened a month ago, so
we're not unpacking this announcement because that's not the hot
new take. But imagine that being new or like, hey,
I had an affair, I love all my children, and
I'm trying to regain my wife's trust. That's her a
fair announcement, that's what that is, fully, And everyone's.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Like, oh my god, he's Sue, What an amazing man,
Like he's really own taking ownership and being honest. He's
been honest because it was going to come out anyway.
The bar is very low. But you're right, that's not
what we're talking about. What we're talking about now is
this idea of friendships and what happens after that. Should
you break up with a friend when they're going through
this situation if you don't believe in their relationship, if
you think your friend is going back to a toxic partner,
(31:29):
can you stand by them and maintain that friendship. The
reason we're having this discussion is a source close to Jordan.
Now we don't know what a source is, but apparently
someone close to the couple has come out saying she
doesn't think she can continue to support her friend Jordan
throughout this process because she doesn't believe the relationship is
healthy and she doesn't believe she should be going back
and staying in that marriage. What is your responsibility as
(31:50):
a friend? Are you entitled dump the friendship if you
don't like the person your partner's going back to.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
I mean, there's so many layers to this, so to
just kind of give you a bit more backstory if
across it. I know that, like most people would have
heard of the news, but Jordan was originally photographed without
her wedding ring. She'd moved out of the family home,
and it seems like now a month later, when all
of the drama has probably subsided a tiny bit, she's
now been photograph wearing her wedding ring again, and she's
moved back into the family home. I have a lot
(32:17):
of feelings because, firstly, in my initial response is I
think that that is indicative of a pretty shitty friendship,
Like if you are going to abandon your friend because
they have chosen to stay with their cheating ex. To me,
all that does is it creates a situation where you're
driving them closer, and you're driving them further back to
their partner and to the person that they obviously still
love and are trying to work things out with. And
(32:39):
I think that that is the danger of an ultimatum,
right if you give your friend an ultimatum because you
hate their partner. The partner's not giving an ultimatum. The
partner's not there saying you need to choose this relationship
of your friends, or you'd hope that they're not doing that.
But when you're the friend who's giving your bestie that ultimatum,
you create an even bigger divide, and you don't stop
them from wanting to have their real lifelationship. You just
(33:00):
drive them closer to the person who you think is
toxic in the first place.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
This is what the source has said. Her bessies have
begged her to move forward with the split, not to
go back with him at any cost. One of her friends,
who's been a close confident for many years, even told
Jordan that she will lose respect for her if she
takes Dave back, and she'll walk away from their decades
long friendship. It makes me feel like there is more
to this story. It makes me feel like this has
(33:24):
been a very very ongoing private issue. Maybe it's not
a standalone issue that is just cheating. Maybe there's more
to their relationship that isn't healthy. Sometimes in a friendship,
when you have one person that has been going through
something for a very long time and they're really holding
onto it, and they're complaining a lot, and they're trauma
dumping on you a lot, but they're not doing anything
in their life to change it, it can get very
(33:46):
exhausting for the person that has to listen. They give
the same advice all the time, and they see their
friend go back and do the same thing over and
over and over again.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
We do not know the foo fartist might be surprising
to you all, but Dave could have had multiple affairs.
This could have been a feature of their relationship for
a really long time. And I read this article. What
really made me feel something about it is this idea
that I will lose respect for you if you went
back to that relationship. I will lose respect for you
as a person if you go and be with that
(34:16):
person that is toxic and treating you badly. Surely, if
you love someone, if you care about them, as we
do with our friends, this idea of losing respect for them,
like we know that that comes from a sense of
low self esteem. It comes from a sense of feeling
as though they're not worthy or never going to have
anything better. It could come from a sense of feeling
like she's frightened to be alone. You don't know the
reasons why she's staying there. It may not just be
(34:38):
because she's like blindly in love and all forgiving. There's
so many reasons why people stay after cheating, and there's
so many reasons why people stay and try and repair
their relationships with that person who is you know, quote
unquote toxic in a relationship, it's okay to put boundaries
around the things that you want to talk about with
your friends. So if you do have a friend that
comes and they're constantly trauma dumping their terrible relationship on you,
(35:00):
and that becomes like a really frequent and common thing,
and they're never ever taking the advice or they're never
actioning anything, but they're always talking about it. Put boundaries
in place to say, look, I love you, but I
cannot keep listening to you talk about the thing that
makes you deeply unhappy over and over and know that
you're not going to do anything about it. Doesn't mean
you have to cut the person from your life or
cut the friendship from your life, especially not when that
(35:22):
person is going through potentially the hardest thing that they're
ever going to experience, and that is the public shame
and also the personal heartbreak that your partner's just had
an affair and had a baby with someone else.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Also, the source says, and this is the part that
like pisces me off a little bit. The source says,
one day, Jordan and Blum is ditching her wedding ring
and vowing divorce from cheating husband David Groll. The next
she's at home wearing the ring and sobbing because she
doesn't want the marriage to end. Standard that, to me,
is a pretty standard response. When you find out your
long term partner of twenty one years has cheated, Your
(35:53):
initial response is going to be to be upset, to
have space, to take your ring off, to be like
I need to work out what this is. Sounds like
she's worked out what she wants and now she's trying
to make her marriage work. One of the things we
have learned from a lot of the specialists we've spoken
to is that cheating isn't black and white, and it
is different for every person and every relationship. It also
(36:13):
doesn't have to be the end of a marriage. It's
very easy for us to all sit back and say, Yeah,
if my partner of twenty one years cheated on me
and had another child, I would be out that door.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
And there will be people who do behave like that.
There will be people who have enough willpower, are strong
enough in their sense of self who would see that
as a complete deal breakup. But we can't impose our
thoughts and our feelings around a relationship on someone else
when we're not experiencing it and they are.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, we've got no idea what their life for twenty
one years has been, Like, we don have no idea
what he's saying to her or what their intimate moments are.
But I think the one thing we do know is
probably now is the time she needs a friends to
support her. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
I mean I would be so curious to kind of
like throw this out to you, guys, like all the
life is listening. Have you ever had a friend be
affected by your friend dating someone who was treating them
in a toxic way or the relationship was toxic. Have
you ever had a friend who kept going back to
a relationship and that affected your friendship. I would say
so many people have, and I think that it's something
(37:14):
that unfortunately so many of us have to navigate. It
may mean that it affects your friendship, but I think
it's pretty rare to put a line in the sand
and say I won't be friends with you if you
go back to that person who cheated on you, because,
like I said, you're imposing your relationship standards on that person.
And at the end of the day, it's their story,
it's their relationship, and it's the choice they need to
(37:36):
get to that place themselves that they make that decision
for themselves, because nobody is ever going to make the
decision to leave a relationship because somebody outside of that
relationship gave them an ultimatum. It doesn't work like that.
I find it's so interesting that overarchingly the press that
he has received has been considering what's happened.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
It's been relatively positive.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
The overarching commentary that was being published at the time
was at least he did the right thing and acknowledged
his illegitimate child, you know, his child out of wedlock.
I mean it was almost like trying to frame him
as though he's still a nice guy and still a
good guy and he's trying to repair his relationships. But
on the flip side to that, now, the person that
should feel shameful, or the person that should be super embarrassed,
(38:18):
or the person whose behavior or decision making is under
scrutiny is the wife who did nothing wrong. Like she
has done nothing wrong in this instance, this is something
that has happened to her from the outset. We're all
judging the decisions that she makes when she's just trying
to navigate something that she has absolutely no fucking control over,
and it's just ripped her family and her life apart.
(38:39):
So I can understand why after twenty one years, it's
not as simple as just walking away, taking off your
wedding ring and calling your husband at you know, every
name and explicit under the sun. I think that when
you find out this type of information, you would be
filled with utter rage, and then once the utter rage
kind of starts to subside. You're filled with so much
grief around the fact that your relationship is never going
(39:01):
to be what it used to be. And I think
that's the point where we see people try to claw
back to be with the person that you know from
the outset. Everyone else is still like, why the hell
would you want to be with that guy?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
I'm not that shocked by that, Laura. We've seen historically
over and over again that the media love issues with
women between women, between friendships, and you're not going to
ever see I can guarantee you the rest of the
FOO fighters going to Dave and saying, hey, we're going
to break up with this friendship and this band is
breaking up because we don't condone you cheating on your wife,
(39:32):
we don't condone you fothering a child out of wedlock.
We will always continue to see it with women in media.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, And I think it's really sad that in these
instances that that's what it comes back to, right, It
comes back to how she is going to be framed
and this idea of losing respect for her, But there's
not been any conversations around losing respect for him.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
It's time for accidentally unfiltered. And I have a very
embarrassing one one that I this is not mine, but
one that I read and I cringe on the inside.
I was once seeing this guy. We were laying in
bed watching a movie on my laptop when my friend
sent a text which popped up on the screen and said,
has he learned to kiss yet? Or is he still shit? Oh?
(40:19):
We both saw it. I saw that he saw it,
and I had to awkwardly attempt to cover it up
by explaining to him that no, indeed, you actually were
really good. I can confirm, though the kissing never got better.
Would you not die?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
There isn't no way to dig up from that. There
is no way, because the only other thing to say
is it's not about you.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
It's just as bad. I'd say I'm seeing multiple people.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I'd say, sorry, God, confession, I'm seeing someone else cheating
on you, Like I'm not about this, because I think
if someone's a really bad kisser, you're never going to
stay with them. No one's having a long term relationship
with someone who can't kiss.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Well. Then it comes into question, are you supposed to
tell them? Do you teach them? Yes? I think that
you do but I don't think you have to like teach them,
teach them, but I think you teach them with your mouth.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
I don't know if you can. I have experienced a
very bad kissing, and I'm not sure if you can lead.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
You know, you can lead a horse to water, but
you can't make him drink. No, you can. There's definitely
particular types of kids because everyone likes something different, right,
Like he might kiss someone this poor terrible kisser might
kiss someone that thinks he's a great kisser. Maybe that's
why he does what he does, same as your rex.
You still like fuck people's legs. Everyone's everyone likes different stuff.
But I think what you can do is like just say,
(41:30):
someone's a bit tonguey, bit mouthy, so you show them
what you want. So you don't open your mouth, You
keep those purse closed, lips little flicker when you need it,
you kiss them like a nanner. But I think that,
I mean, for sure, sometimes there's only so much you
can do, Like, there's only so much of that before
someone's just not going to get it.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
There is nothing, No, there's plenty of things, but it's
pretty high up there. Nothing worse there is nothing more
of a turnoff than someone who is a bad kisser.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Like, it's a real turn off. John On the only
guy in the rooms. Like when you're kissing someone and
you don't like it, and you are trying to like
get them to read the room, so you're like trying
to pull back, but they keep leaning forward. It happened
recently on Love is Blind when I was watching it
and I was cringing watching it. I was like, read
the room. She's like pulling back and he kept leaning
(42:18):
on and leaning on, and he was laying on it.
It was on TV. It was awkward, and I was like,
she's evidently not trying to be sexy, and like, I
will leave you want.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I just want to really make it clear.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
That we are not being paid by Love is Blood. No,
we just love it. It's the fourth episode. But yes,
I know exactly Leo, you know the scene. I know
exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
He kept putting his hand behind her head.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
It was so like it will make every hair.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
On your body stand up because you're just like I
can see how much she does not want to be there.
I don't think anyone's going to be confused with us
being paid by love is blind. We have only shit
on things that has happened like, but there's not never
been like, oh you must watch it. We're like, this
is awful, this is awful. This perspective mass okay. I
would dare say that every single person can viscerally recall
(43:05):
at least one person that was a horrible kiss and
it instantly turned them off. I can think of two
who name them. Tennis guy now maj Jo's great kisser,
he'd want to be practice betweenty nine tennis guy, fuck
off tennis guy, and a police officer terrible.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, but here's a question. Let's roll reversal. You're in bed,
you're watching a movie with this guy that you're dating,
and on his screen off message pops up there says
has she learned to kiss yet? Or is it still shit?
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I pretend like I haven't seen it, and then I
never call him again.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
I'm no, I ask him for sure. I want nothing
to do with that. But do you know what, I'm
too awkward. I wouldn't be angry. I think I'd be like,
why didn't you tell me? That's what I'd say. I'd
be like I was like, do you not. I would
just put them on the spot because I don't like
do you not like the way we make out? And
I would hope that there'd be a constructive conversation where
I'm like, well, like, please tell me, because I would
love you to know.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Good from you. You sound like someone who's been to therapy.
I'd be like, Oh, that's awkward.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
I've been through a lot. Let's avoid this. You like
you want to have sex.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
I feel like, oh, I guess what a pretty woman style?
Then all right, what is your suck on your sweet
for the week?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Your suck of the week is that my tire has
a nailing it my car tire and I now have
a slow leak that I have to fill up. I
filled it up yesterday thinking I just had a low tire.
Then I came to work this morning and it was
like an immediate drop, which means there is a nailing
that bad boy, But it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Was fifteen minutes late because you had to go and
do a little Is it called PSI?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
PSI? That's the pressure. That is a suck?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And also, I don't want to be you this afternoon
walking back to your car because you're gonna have flat tire.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
My sweet is probably I just had a really nice
dinner with our very good friend, co host Mitch Cherry
and his boyfriend Steven, so it's nice. I've met his partner,
Stephen quite a few times, but I feel like we're
at that point now where we're really getting to know
each other because I think it's important to know your
friend's people, you know, like this is your yeah, your
friend's heart. Well, I have not met him yet. No,
I know you haven't because you're always away yourself every
(44:55):
single weekend. So that was my sweet, which is a
really nice dinner. I had a few venos, so I
haven't been drinking much lately, so I just had a
great weekend. I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I also saw that you guys were out together, and
I felt very sad even though I was away.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
I was like, I want to be there. You were
literally away with a group of friends. I was away
my sweet for the week.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I don't have a suck, So I'm skipping past the
suck because I think it is like, apart from Marley
getting kind of like, you know, picked on, there was
no suck. But my sweet for the week is I
had a really beautiful experience where we were at the
pool and Mally, she is so social, and she was
talking to this lady and she'd been talking to this
lady for ages. The woman was watching her name was Amanda,
and she was watching Taylor Swift live over in the States,
(45:33):
and Marley was obsessed with it, so she kept going
over wanting to watch it. I was very conscious around imposing,
like on her time, and also like Marley spending too
much time over there, and that being annoying when they're
trying to have a holiday. Yeah, well not even that,
just they're trying to have a holiday nicely themselves, and like,
my kid is annoying their parents' solo time. I went
over and I apologized, and this woman said, look, it's
(45:54):
absolutely fine, and she was like, I want to share
something with you. She said, it's really special to get
to spend time I'm with a little girl who's so
interested in talking to me. And she shared with me
that she had lost her six year old daughter Ava.
It was two years since Ava had passed away. And
I had this moment on the weekend, which was like
quite profound because I always say to Maley, or I
(46:16):
don't say to Marley directly, but I always say to map.
We're always like, how kids are so lucky. They have
no idea how lucky they are.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
That in that moment, I.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Had this real realization that I was like, we don't
realize how lucky we are. It was really beautiful to
get to know this lady and I had a really
nice conversation with her, and I felt very special that
she shared with me some of the stories around what
happened two years ago to her and to her family,
and yeah, it was it was just a really nice
It was a really nice moment, and it really was
something not that you need someone else's grief to make
(46:45):
you appreciate the things that you have in life, but
it really was a moment where I stopped focusing on
how lucky our kids are, and genuinely how lucky I
feel to have healthy kids who are able to run
around and you know, be out there in the world.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, but sometimes that's the reminder you need. And as
horrible as that sounds, perspective is a wonderful thing. Yeah,
And we can get very lost and stuck in the
negativity and sometimes it's nice to be like reminded, Oh, yeah,
I don't have anything to worry about.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Well, that's it, and that's also why I like there's
no stuck this week. But shout out to Amanda. She's
also a listener and yeah, I felt very special to
meet her. So that is it from us, guys, thanks
so much for listening to another episode. If you love
the app, go leave a review, you know, come and
join us over at Life Uncut Discussion group on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
You can watch it on the YouTube channels.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
There's so many places where you can get all of
your life Uncut stuffs and you know the drill.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
So mum to dadte dot ta, friends and share the
love because we love love
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!