Uncut with Stephen K Amos - The People Who Were the Butt of the Joke Now Have a Voice

Joining the podcast today is comedian, TV personality and camp mate from the South African jungle Stephen K Amos!
Britt got to know Stephen in their month in Africa together and they formed a special friendship built on some very personal and impactful conversations. Stephen joins us today with some of the funniest accidentally unfiltered stories (yes, plural) that we have ever heard!
Stephen is such a laugh and a half and as funny as he is, he is equally as deep and thoughtful. 

We spoke about:

• Time in the jungle 
• His life growing up in a Nigerian family in South London
• Expectations and being a ‘role model’ when he didn’t expect to be
• Always being labelled as a ‘Black comedian’ and eventually ‘Black, gay comedian’
• Push back on political comedy ‘ruining’ comedy
• Stephen’s encounter with the Pope and his unexpected response to Stephen’s sexuality 
• Performing for the Royal family
• Accepting himself and his body; wearing shorts for the first time EVER in the jungle

You can find more of Stephen K Amos and his tour dates here!

You can watch us on Youtube

If you have an question please send it on it to life uncut podcast on Instagram

Join us on tiktok

Or join the Facebook Discussion Group

Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xx

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Life on Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose
lands were never seeded. We pay our respects to their
elders past and present.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
recorded on gaddigal Land.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on Cut.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Brittany and I'm Laura.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
And joining us on the podcast today is somebody that
I am very happy to now call a friend. He
is a very very funny comedian that has come all
the way across the pond from the UK, Stephen k Amos.
He's a writer, he's a performer. He's a reality to
be contested now, which I bet you never thought you'd know.
That's your repertoire. But Stephen, welcome to Life on Cut.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
I am so thrilled to be here. Britt And can
I say I consider you a friend now as well.
I think I know more about you than your listeners do.
We spent a good four weeks together living our best
lie in the South African jungle. And Laura, very nice
to meet you too. I know you.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I think I know more about you than anyone because
like watching it all back on TV.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
But I'd love to know.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Knowing that now, you think you know Britt better than
the listeners exposition, what did you learn about her or
what was the most surprising thing about her that maybe
people wouldn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Well, bear in mind that I came into this program
not knowing anybody, so I had no idea of anybody's
background and anybody's what they'd done in the past.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
You're like, these people are not celebrities.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
So we're like, well, I had to take on board
that's the title of the program. We must all be celebrities.
So I looked at Britt and I thought, this is
a woman who is prepared to muck in and get
down and dirty. It did not occurred to me once
how glamorous this woman is, because do you.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Know what I mean, you look like shit.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Loud and Stephen no, but.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
No, but you know what I mean. But we all
looked really kind of rough and were slumming it. And
for some people particular, if you're in the public eye
and you have a certain image to go against that,
it's quite a big step for a lot of us. Yeah,
a lot of people in the jungle are talking about
how it looked like Callum was wearing makeup. It looked
like Sky was wearing makeup, do you know what I mean?
And they look like even Khan was wearing makeup. But

(02:16):
there's certain group of us who were just like.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Definitely really not wearing makeup.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
That was me.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I like to think of myself as like and I
think I've always said this and people have never believed me.
But now I think the audience believes me.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I'm like the ultimate catfish.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Like me with makeup and hair is completely different person
to the second I wake up. But I'm okay with that,
completely untrue.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Mucking in is what I mean. In fact, you know
you look as a woman with no makeup. You are stunning.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Thank you, But this was not supposed to turn into this.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Yeah, but again and more about me, your stumming, but
with the makeup and all that. You know, when I
first saw you outside of the jungle, that's the first
thing I said. I went wow, And your response to
me is, yeah, I screw up really good, don't I.
I was like a lovely piece of self deprecation and
it's just great. And just the fact that we all
mucked in together and I didn't realize the laugh. I

(03:02):
mean this came through in the jungle. There's very distinct
laugh which is very similar to your months where you
get it from. I also learned really a lot about
the closeness of your family, which is really nice to
see because one of the things I wanted to get
from this experience was to talk to people who you'd
never normally meet but have really good, interesting conversations and
hear about the closest of your family. And you mentioned

(03:24):
about how your parents had struggled to look after all
four of you, and that you're quite close in age
and the struggles your parents went through. They didn't ever
express that to you, because only as an adult you
saw that and you could recognize what their sacrifices they made,
and that was great to hear.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
To me, that's it. I mean that, I'm actually tough
that you remembered that, because I think a big part
of our connection in the jungle. Speaking for myself, but
there are so many different characters in the jungle, but
I had a pull to Stephen because we could have
some very deep conversations and some conversations that probably never
made it to air because they were just genuine conversations.

(04:03):
We were never having conversations just for TV. I mean
sometimes you do you're like, oh, they'd probably love that
to ear that. But there are different people in the
jungle give you different things and provide different things, and
there's not a lot to do in there. Like you
have a lot of time on your hands. You can't read,
you're not getting up to date the news, you don't
know what's happening world politics. And then so I think
that Steven and I sort of got that from each

(04:23):
other some some more, I don't know. We just say
conversations of substance.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
I don't want to Yes, I mean not to be
disparaging about any of our campmates, but for example, because
we don't know what is going to be aired and
how we are going to be portrayed. Yeah, And that's
one another thing I learned big time because when I
do I do my own shows or radios or whatever.
I'm involved in the edit, so I know what's going out.
So when you've got no idea what's going out, you've

(04:49):
got no control. And that's one thing I've learned by
myself relinked and control ain't my thing. No, it's not
not my thing. Baby, I want to have a bit
of a say in this like, for example, I remember
having a chat with Carol about us being in South Africa.
I think you might have been there, and how important
it was for me as a black man to go
to that country where thirty years ago I would not

(05:09):
have been allowed to. Yeah, and we discussed apartheid and
Callum twenty six, I had no idea about the history
of South Africa as a country, and I thought to myself, Wow,
this might be a really good conversation to air because
it will still educate people about a point in history
that should never ever be repeated. And I've not watched
the series back myself yet, but I've heard from my

(05:30):
friends that that wasn't aired at all.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
It wasn't aired, which but also, I mean, we can
get into the new ones and unpacked that. But it
must be frustrating to be like, how are you twenty
six years old and you've never heard of this?

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Like how am I educating you on this?

Speaker 4 (05:42):
But again I didn't have a go at Callum for
not knowing that. I found it a way of educating
somebody who's ages twenty six, and he just told me
that there may be a lot of people of that
age bracket who simply don't.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Know and just to like double down on that, there
is not like we all learned something from everyone. The
amount of things that stay and I learned from Callum
about what his field is, health and nutrition and fitness,
and there's so much that he can educate on, which
is why it's so beautiful because everyone in that jungle
took something from everyone. So I don't want to make
it sound like Stephen and I had conversations that we
didn't have with anyone else.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
That's not it. But it was definitely something that we
connected on.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
Yes, yeah, and I did have conversation with Callum about things,
and you're right, Brennan, he did the whole health thing,
the body and whatever. He told me things about my
body that I hadn't even got a clue about. I mean,
look at me. I'm a man of a certain age.
I'd like to say thirty, but that would be a
dirty lie. But he taught me things. Every single one,
as you said, every single one of those had a
story to tell.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I would love to know because when you say you're
someone who struggles with relinquishing control and when you are
a comedian, so like a lot of people expect you
to be funny, but then probably don't realize that just
because you're a comedian doesn't mean that you're funny twenty
four to seven, Like you, Also, it's a performance as
much as it is.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Part of your character.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Do you watch back reality TV and question like how
funny you were or whether you were supposed to play
more of a character in that instance.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
What a great question, Laura. Absolutely, when I was in
the midst of it and I was wondering, Okay, maybe
they put me here because I'm a comedian and I'm
supposed to be this role. But as soon as I
got in, there were massive personalities in there, some people
who were larger than life, and I just thought to myself,
I cannot compete with this. I came here because I

(07:22):
wanted to show a different side of me, and that
side of me is the person offstage. On stage is
an extension of who I am, and it's all about performance.
I'm in control. But in setting with eleven other people,
my whole thing was to take bits in, you know,
kind of figure where I am in the pecking order
of the group, find my space, find my tribe if

(07:43):
you will. Yeah, but not to be that annoying person
doing jokes twenty four to seven, because that would be
so tedious.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, do you find that in your real life and
your friendship groups that you go to a dinner or
a group event and you feel the pressure to you're like, oh,
I've got to be the one that entertains tonight.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
I don't actually, But the thing is, in my friendship group,
people know me and I've got the same friends I've
had been thirty odd years and we've all got our
sort of roles of good friends of mine. Kate and
Tim who live in the UK, but they've moved to
Australia about fifteen years ago. Kate is really organized and
we all lead things to her. Tim is very, very
sentrable and very calm. I'm the joke you one, So

(08:21):
within that friendship group we all laugh. Everyone's funny as well.
So even though that's my job on the outside.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
It was on your laptop when we recorded the last episode.
It's just been flying around this whole time.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
Oh my goodness, it's like being back in the jungle again.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
I wanted to give you an immersive experience today, Steven.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
So yeah, I don't feel the pressure too. But if
i'm out with people I don't know. For example, if
I finish a gig and I'm walking through the streets
and there's people who came to the gig, they expect
you to be funny. Yeah. Yeah, people come out to
me in the street and tell us a joke now
and I'm not working right now, and their normal responses

(09:03):
were he not funny then, because they expect you to
be like a twenty four to seven. Like for example,
I did this show last weekend at the Gold Coast
and Sky from the Jungle and Denise came and Sky's
partner came as well, and after show, their mouths were opened.
They were like, you're really funny because it's not what
I did in the Jungle. I was twenty four seven

(09:25):
because you're just you. Yeah, it was just me. And
they were genuinely shocked that I was really funny. And
I was like, you know what, guys, that's what I do.
That's my day job.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
I love that and I can't wait because I'm going
to go see you this weekend, so I can't wait
to see it.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
I mean, my mission in the Jungle.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I didn't really tell Stephen that, but I was like,
I'm going to make this guy laugh at some point,
but I was like, dropping jokes left Ryan's then I
trying to get a last so you could be like
I made the comedian laugh.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
No, I did.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
And there was one time, one joke and I think
it was a masturbation joke, which is funny in itself.
I told a masturbation joke and he actually laughed, and
I was like, yes, get that on record. Get it
made the comedian laugh.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
I did. I howled, I howled with la.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah, the job it's too long.

Speaker 4 (10:02):
I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
When you have to explain a joke, it's a lot
of funny.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well, speaking of being the funny one, we do do
something on every podcast so we ask every one of
our guests the same question, and it's called an accidentally
unfiltered story, So it's basically just your most embarrassing story,
most very humbling.

Speaker 4 (10:18):
Yes, very I've got two for you.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Actually we got time.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
Okay, great. The first one is when I was about
twenty two and I had a job with a magazine
and I was the advertising sales rep, so I had
to sell advertising over the phone. What a different line
sounds as dull as it is cold calling companies going,
do you want to buy advertising?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
No?

Speaker 4 (10:41):
What do you Anyway? You know, when you're already fed
up in a job, you start going late. You don't
really care about it anymore. There's one day and my
parents are from Nigeria, okay, that's that's quite important, and
I'm from London. There was one day I thought, you
know what, I don't want to go to work today.
I'm going to ring in and pretend I'm sick. I'm
going to on behalf of my dad. So I rang,

(11:04):
I rang my own boss and put on an African
Nigerian accent and I said, hello, is Brian there. Please,
we'll put you through. Hello Brian, it is Stephen's father here. Yes,
I'm afraid Stephen is not very well. Okay, he will
be in tomorrow. Okay. And he put the phone down
and I was like boom ha got away with that.

(11:27):
I had a great day off in my house, dart
singing in my underpants. And the next day I went
to work and the guy goes, Steve can have a
word and I said yeah. I went into his office.
He went, do you think I'm stupid? I said, boy?
He went you called me yesterday with an accent pretending

(11:47):
to be your dad. Because I did a really bad,
shitty accent.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
I was convinced, maybe you've gotten better at accents since then.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
But maybe I've got better. But the thing is, remember
I worked in telesales, so he hears my voice all
all day, all day, every day, right, And I was
trying to do an accident where I wasn't over doing
it like that. Don't make it sound exactly. They're dead.
So I was kind of midway between English and Nigeria,
but it sounded like me and I, honestly at the time,

(12:17):
thought I got away with it.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
And did you get fired?

Speaker 4 (12:19):
I got bloody fired.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Mind you, this is a step up. At least you
were selling things on the phone. Stephen started door knocking,
selling tuppleware, horrible tule.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, as like a seventeen year old. Right. We were
all put in a van at the bottom of the
street and told to work each side of the street.
And the one thing back in the day that people
had in the houses was doubleware.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
To be fair, though people would have bought it from
someone coming. It's very community. You always need more.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
From this boy. Knock on the door and they open it.
What tupaware shut the door in my face.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
That's so he only got one sale?

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah, How long did that?

Speaker 1 (12:56):
How long did that job last?

Speaker 4 (12:57):
That job lasted a day and a half. I guess
a day and a heart.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I guess you weren't being paid on commission.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Then that's what it was. It was commission. Can imagine
it was nobody. It felt like we're being kidnapped to
be like the jungle right where they I didn't know
any of my colleagues, but I met. We all met
on a street corner right like Boys of the Night.
I was huddled into a van, given our wares, driven
down to a street and go right, go.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
What I did this?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
When I was a kid, I must have been thirteen forty.
It was my first job and it was delivering the
phone books, you know, the Yellow Pages phone books we
still have in Australia.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
But I don't know in England as well.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Okay, I don't know what they're like in England, but
they're so big, Yes, they are fucking cute. And I
was this little, a thirteen year old, trying to lug
phone books down a street and I think I got
paid seven dollars an hour.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Wow, that's good.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
Live in the dream, I know.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Look me there was commissioned. I hate and the second
story because I know you. We love a poos story
and you shot yourself.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
You'd have a pool story. Okay, do you know what
I'm going to tell you that you may not use
before I do that other poo story. Do you know
back in the day when you meet someone online? Yeah,
I know, I said back in the day because I'm
trying to be nice because this was years ago for me.
And there I was chatting this this chap and as

(14:17):
we were chatty, he said, what are you into? And
I was like, oh, just you know, the regular stuff.
And then I said you into and he says, I
like dirty folk And I said what do you mean
dirty folk? He says, I like it when someone hasn't
really washed, and I went, okay, how do you mean?
Then he went like, if you go to the laboratory
and you don't wipe, And I was like that sounds interesting.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sure not to someone's young but yeah, each to his own.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
And so we ra used to meet that afternoon and
I don't know why, but I decided to have a
tie Curry. I went to the bathrooms absolutely went for it,
and I thought, you know what, this is gonna be awkward.
I'm not gonna wipe. Though, I'm not gonna wipe. Didn't wipe.
Your man comes over and he's lying the bed and
I instantly just sit on his face and this is

(15:04):
what I heard, and got up and ran to the
bathroom and threw up.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And I was like, he threw but surely when he
said I like it a bit dirty, he didn't mean
taking dump on his face.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Well, I didn't know what he meant.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
He said, He's like, that's too dirty.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Man, that's too dirty. You didn't give me a pie
chart exactly. All I did was just sat. I mean,
there wasn't squelch noise as I sat, But I thought
that was what was quiet. Surprised to say, I never
saw him again.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
He was like, I like, dirty, you're fast, got a pig.
That's that's better than you're shitting in the car story.
That is one of my favorite accident filters we've ever had.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Oh really, and that's you know, I mean, I please
don't judge me, you know, event I know that's never happened.
Since I should point out no, if they're not, you
should have just said musty or something you know on
moist something else, but don't say. His phrase was when
you go to the bathroom and you don't wipe?

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, but didn't he mean for sex, Like the pain
is not the lips he didn't want on his face.

Speaker 4 (16:17):
Did he go to the toilet and don't wipe is
what he said?

Speaker 1 (16:19):
No, but he didn't he yes, but didn't he mean
that for sexual I don't think he wanted you to see.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
It didn't even occur to me. But I sat, Oh,
my goodness, and you know, it's like, you know, I
don't even ever met somebody. And years ago this is funny. Actually,
years ago on the older dating app thing, I met
someone and the person came to my house and clearly
was not the person in the.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Photographs, totally different.

Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, and I could not hide my horror. I was
just like, huh, And he went, it's not happening, is it?
I went, No, that's the equivalent to sitting on somebody's face.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah. I don't think you can compare those two. I
think they're pretty different.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
It'd be like that person that was the different person
sitting on your face, that would be the equivalent.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
It's rejection. Isn't it of that's what you wanted. I didn't.
I didn't think outside the box.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I'm actually shocked.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
But one thing I'm impressed at is your commitment. Like
twenty four hours before, you thought about what me and
we have that's going to make the most damage in
the toilet to sit on his face.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
Do you know what? If there's one thing about me
is I will commit to a story. Yeah, I'll commit
If you want something asked Stevie boy, and I'll make
it to happen. I'll make it happen to me.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
You've got a fantasy under you?

Speaker 4 (17:27):
Yeah, I do. You know I've never said that in public,
but now it's out there.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I do you know what?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
He's never asked someone to do that again, he has
never text someone and said I like a dirty He's like,
he doesn't ask I like a clean boy.

Speaker 4 (17:40):
I've taught him a lessons a life, please wi Yeah
not all.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Here is where cape Stephen.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Let's talk about who you are before comedy, Like, what
was your life like growing up?

Speaker 4 (17:50):
I come from a family of six siblings. Parents arrived
in London in the mid sixties, and London the mid
sixties a very very different place. In the same way
that you know we talked earlier about you and your family,
your parents having sacrifices. My parents never ever told us
the things they must have gone through in the early
sixties when they arrived in London, they already shielded us

(18:12):
from that. But as a result of that, they shielded
us from everything. So we didn't get to go to
on school journeys, we didn't have sleepovers with friends, we
weren't allowed to play outside on the street. Nothing.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Are you saying that in terms of racism that they
would have faced like they were protecting you from going
on a school camp because they didn't know how you'd
be treated, or was it just like it they just
wanted to wrap you in cottonwall one hundred.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Percent because they br in mind parents from Nigeria and
when they were growing up, Nigeria was under British rule,
so they were kind of invited to the Motherland in
inverted commas to come and help out and do whatever.
But when they got there, the reality was completely different.
Before they could find a place to live, they were
met with signs. It was very popular in the UK.
Signs on doors they said no Blacks, no Irish, no dogs.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
So like England was like the catfish England. I was like, yeah, come,
we're welcome here.

Speaker 4 (19:01):
But then you got there and the reality was like
oh mmm, I think so, and to get different. Like
my dad, for example, he's not a drinking man. He
was pulled over by the police on a fake charge
of drink driving and the reason why he got off
when it went to court was that they spelt his
name incorrectly, because no matter how drunk you are, you
don't spell your name incorrectly. You know, I just spelled

(19:23):
your name. That's one of the basics. And the judge
was like throughout.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
So he went and had to stand in court and
the judge Aldren was like, I don't think this is real.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah wow. So many stories and even when I was
growing up, you know, being followed by the police. You know,
there's one I lived back then, and I lived in
Southwest London and I had an orange Beetle, you know,
Volkswagen Beetle, and I was in the West End with
my friends driving back home about forty five minute drive
and I was stopped on that journey four times by
four different police cards. And you kind of think, WHOA.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
This is the side of it that we you know,
and it's like it's such a privilege of the way
in which we get to grow up, is that like
we you never will see or experience that type of racism,
that type of profiling. What impact does that have on
you when like your whole life you grow up being
like got to be on high alert knowing that it'll
be assumed that I'm doing something wrong when I'm not,
or I'm trying to sell tup wear, and I'll have

(20:14):
the door shut in my face.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, I mean, it is a weird thing when you
are playing second fiddle or you're on the back for
all the time. And that's why I think the phrase
people got a chip on their shoulder. Yeah, welleta people
say you've got chip on your shoulder, Maris bonse Is,
I can't see it. And if you can see it,
who put it there? You've made me be aware and conscious.
You know, I've got friends, for example, Asian backgrounds, Indian

(20:38):
backgrounds and Nigerian backgrounds with very distinct names. And that
alone was a source of comedy and humor and ridicule.
You know, in the classroom when people are reading out
the register, the teacher's going and if i's sniggering, you know,
if you have that from when you're like five until
you're fifteen, that does something to you.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
I think you know Michael Hing the Australian community, do
you know? Yeah, so he was at our live show.
We've interviewed him. He's wonderful. We talked a lot about
like microaggressions in micro racism, and it's one of these
things where ignorance is bliss. It's easy for us to
sit back and say, oh, yes, we don't stand by racism.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
We know what racism is.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
But when you speak to someone like you know, conversations
that we had in the jungle where you I mean
you told me once that you got punched in the face.
You were standing up for some girls, you got punched
in the face, and there was a lot of like
racism sniggering there. But there's a lot of these day
to date things that we don't think about. So the
sniggering at someone's pronunciation of a name is something that

(21:39):
we don't even consider.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
And I think that that's why.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
These conversations are so important, because that is a cumulative effect.
Maybe one time won't last with you, but when your
entire life is that.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Absolutely, and even something as simple as you going to
school and you smelling a bit like your parents' home
cooking is enough to make people laugh for you, to
make you and stand out. One of my earliest jokes
when I started didn't stand up was this. I remember
going to school, my first primary school. I ran into
the classroom and I run straight back home and I said, Mom, Mum,

(22:10):
apparently there's a black boy in my class. I can't
find him anywhere. What that joke means is that in
my household, there were no differences. No one talked about race.
As soon as I stepped out of that door and
into the classroom, that's what it became an issue, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Dealing with that throughout your life, especially your childhood, make
it challenging for you to be proud of your heritage.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Oh god, I remember back in the day, if my mum,
for example, go shopping, I would pray that she wouldn't
wear her national dress because we didn't want to stand out.
Now I embrace it, of course I do. I'd pray
that she didn't bump into somebody that she knew from
Nigeria and they'd speak in their language. Because people would
stop and stare. You know what I mean, all those
little things that you just do. I just want to

(22:53):
fit in. I don't want to be the odd one out.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Actually as a kid, because that's all every kid wants
is to just be accepted.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
By the piece slot in and don't. And you know,
I've had people ask me when people ask you questions,
And you know, that's what I loved about the jungle
that we all came in there with a level of
respect for each other. So therefore we could ask questions
that you knew came from a good place. Yeah. But
when you in the outside world and people ask you
questions where you've got a question, what they really mean?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
What's their motive?

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Do you really wash your how do people wash your hair?
How do you people wash your hair? Yeah? I mean
that's a loaded question. How do you people? What do
you mean? Ask me how if you're interested, But don't
make it like I don't answer for the group totally.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
But that's also something that I think we would discussed
this before on the podcast as a privilege of being
white is that when we walk into a room, we're
not speaking on behalf of all white people. But somehow
people who come from any minority within a community, they
become representative of everyone who's that minority, So you speak
on behalf of everybody. This was one big thing that

(23:53):
was brought out when we did an episode around like
change the Date and so Indigenous Australians and the person
in you was like, when I'm doing this interview, I'm now.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
The voice of every single and she's like, it's such
a responsibility.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Yeah, and you know what, Naively, I didn't think of that.
But when I started doing stand up, and when I
started doing on TV in the UK, I would have
young Black kids and young Asian kids come up to
me in the street and go thank you for representing me.
It dawned me that, oh my god, because there aren't
many of us, it's something that I have to have
on my shoulders. And if I did a shit job, wow,

(24:29):
can you imagine? And then you hear people say, oh,
black people aren't funny, or all black people do they
talk about race in their comedy? Yeah, you know, when
there's a lot more, you know, and we're not all
the same. I remember starting stand up and being the
only black person on a bill of comics. Yeah, back
in the day where on a bill of comics, there'd
be no women.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, I remember you making a joke in the jungle,
and it was a joke that was laced with truth, obviously,
because that's where a lot of jokes come from, isn't it.
You were saying that when you were trying to get
into comedy, you had to wait for the only black
comedian to die because there was one black comedian. You're like, Oh,
I wish you would just die so I could the joke,
so I could take that one spot.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
It's also I think how a lot of women comics
feel as well. It's like, oh, well they've got the
token female comic, you know, in this run and lineup
as well. Yeah, when it comes to making jokes on stage,
And that's saying when people say, oh, the only thing
you talk about is race, where's the line for you
in making jokes about race, Like, where do you feel
that you are comfortable with it?

Speaker 4 (25:22):
I personally believe that any decent comic can tackle any subject.
You know, there is a myth that you can't say
what you want anymore, you know, you can't do jokes.
But that's a myth. That's something that people say when
they want to harp onto a bygone age where anything
was permissible. The thing is, as we know, the people
who were the butt of the jokes back in the
day now also have a platform. Yeah, you know, the

(25:44):
people who used to joke about you know, women or
ethic minorities or the LGBT community or whatever. Those people
now are superstars and doing jokes themselves. And language and
attitudes change over time. You can't harp onto a bygone era.
And I think any good comedian, a white comedian, can
do jokes about race. A headtential comedy can do it

(26:05):
jokes about LGBT, as long as it's tackled in a
really funny, clever way.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
So you don't mind a white comedian doing a race joke.
I guess it's about the context and the delivery and
what's the punchline.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Absolutely, I'm not a fan of punching down personally, and
other comics do that. I'm not a fan of shock
comedy either. Other comics do that. There's something for everyone,
you know, find your own tribe, as it were, But
for me, there is no line. I might self deprecate
myself to make a point, or or sometimes people misinterpret

(26:36):
the joke and I've got to kind of explain.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
It and then.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Talk about the masturbating joke from the jug for me.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
For me, the playing field is leveling up, and therefore
you can do jokes about anything. When I first started,
I used to just do jazz hands, Aren't I funny?
But then the more yeah, just like, just do jokes,
not make any points. But then I thought, you know what,
I've got some thing to say. I know, funny now,
but let me try and say stuff that means something
to me, because I've heard some outrageous things during my

(27:07):
times of doing comedy, or people come up to me
and say the most that rageous things and think I'm
just going to go, oh no.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
What changed?

Speaker 2 (27:16):
What made you go from wanting to just say funny
jokes and make people laugh to also saying funny jokes
but having a statement around how you feel or think
about issues.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
A couple of things. Firstly, was that thing about knowing
that you're representing people? Yeah, and also it's that thing
about the press, the media they like to label people.
You know, I've yet to see any of my white
colleague comedy chums be described in any newspapers. White comedian
Da Da Da Da but for me, you will always
see black comedian.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Did you still get that next?

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Oh god, yes, oh god, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Still will be black comedian.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, but now it's black gay comedian, that's the thing out.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, you really handed that to want to plant it
in you.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Now it's black gay comedian that ships on people's faces.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
That'serform on the weekend.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
And the weird thing about that is that when the
masses see that, that's enough to put people off going
to see you, because they assume they know what you're
going to talk about, you know what I mean, Whereas
it just say comedian, you know, don't have to give
me any of these monikers and some pressure to go,
oh you haven't talked about being black enough. Oh, we
don't talk about being gay enough. I talk about things
that matter to me. And once you're in a position

(28:24):
where you've got a captive audience for me personally, so
for everybody, I think you owe it to yourself and
your community to say something.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Represent There's a part of me that, like, I get
so angry, and there's a part of me that hates
that we even have this conversation now, the fact that
we even have to highlight the racism that you experienced still,
because we shouldn't be having to have these conversations, but
we do. But the fact that now in twenty twenty four,
you are still being headlined as black comedian enrages me

(28:53):
and upsets me on your behalf and then it comes
back full circle. That's why we're having these conversations still.
So it's like it's a bit of a like we're
almost chasing I say, we you're almost chasing your tail
on having to have the responsibility to talk about it,
to educate people to make.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
The change, but you're still living it every single day.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
You do live it every single day, and I try.
The reason why I'm doing it is because I want
to see I see history repeating itself and things not
really getting much better. You know. I just want to
be honest and true to myself. And I look at
my nephews and nieces who are coming up, and I
don't want them to experience what I experienced. Do you
think that.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
The needle is shifting at all?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I mean when you say you see history repeating itself,
There's been so much conversation in the last couple of years,
especially around the Black Lives movement.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Do you think that it's shifting.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
I think it is shifting, but I think it also
is in the interest of certain political parties or whatever
to keep those divisions flaring up, you know, because that's
how they keep contro I don't want to sound like
a conspiracy there is, but that's how they keep control
of everybody to them fighting amongst each other. Oh, look,
the black folks are getting all this Oh what about

(29:59):
ask you know, sprinkle all that nonsense into it and
watch them fight and argue. Whereas we all know, it
just sounds so tripe. But if we are united together.
But when I see young kids in London coming out
to school, London is generally a melting pot, you know,
and multicultures and people like that now saying it doesn't
really work, it doesn't really work. You go to an

(30:21):
inner city school in London, you'll see kids of all
colors who all sound the same. Yeah, because they're all mates.
They've grown up together. Right back in my day, there
are pockets of groups of kids sticking together and who
knows what their parents have told them.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
What's even like You've just made me think of this
right now. So my brother in law is Indian but
born raised in Scotland, so he's Scottish. But even when
he moved to Australia, but everyone always says to him, oh,
I didn't expect you to sound like that. To somebody
it's a throwaway comment. But to him he's like, well,
I'm Scottish, so why not you know? And I guess

(30:55):
it comes back to this a level of ignorance, maybe like, oh,
but you look Indian and you sound Scottish.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
So I just I just it's funny. It's funny hearing
you talk.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
But you know what the thing is that, as I
said earlier, there's a way you can approach someone and
ask somebody a question as opposed to making it funny.
And as you say, you mentioned your brother in law before,
and I do Scotland quite a bit, so I know
what you're talking about. But if he hears that twenty
four to seven total, that's irritating. You have to justify
yourself when I sometimes because I remember getting a taxi

(31:26):
from the airport in London, I arrived, I rang for
a taxi. The taxi turned up and he looked at
me and oh, oh I didn't expect you to be
a I said, what and he backtracked.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
You like, finish that center, keep.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
It in your in your brain, keep it in your production.
You know, why do you have to vocalize it? You know,
just because oh you might learn something, but you know,
not everyone is the same. Yeah, you know. Well. I
used to do a joke as well about going to
America and Americans have got no point of reference for
a black english Man. They don't because apparently my face
does not fit my voice. And I said to those people,

(32:00):
this is my face, this is my voice, deal with it.
And so I like to mess with him, and so
I go. I went to a coffee shop and this
is all I said. This is all I said, My
good man, come hither. And I was like, oh my god,
hold on, hold on a get over here kind of
get over here, say it again. So I just kind

(32:23):
of like and I like to play with the notion
of race as well to get people kind of thinking
I do. I used to do joke. It's not about
doing my first ever stand up gig doing five minutes,
not one single laugh. I was too new, not good
enough jokes. And so to console myself, I got drunk
after the show and I'm staggering home at night and
in the distance, I saw a little old lady and folks.
As she saw me, she clutched her handbag like that.

(32:45):
So something inside me died. So I went over to
that little old lady and I took that handbag. That's
a joke. That's a joke. But if you notice in
that joke, I didn't say the race of the little
old lady. Yeah, yeah, so you've already assumed white.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
She's a little white.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
Yeah, you know what I mean. And that's I like
to pray with that.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Did she have any cash in the bag?

Speaker 4 (33:05):
Oh god, Yeah, that's why I brought this watch.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Steven. Something that I think will surprise people, because you
are known worldwide as a comedian, is that you weren't
always a comedian. You're a lawyer.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Well yes, that was my first four rate. Again, I
think that stems for two things. My parents were the
kind of parents who said, in the UK, get yourself
an education. Once you have that degree in your hand,
nobody can take it away. Whether you go on to
get a job, there's another thing. As long as you've
got that. They instilled that enough from a young age,

(33:38):
and I really really kind of embraced that. In fact
doing a joke about as well, I'll just throw this in.
Before I did buy a law degree, I did something
called O levels and they will determine whether you go
to university or whether you take them again. I did
six of them, and to rebel against my parents, I
failed all of those. I've failed them all. And it
was in the days where you got a piece of
paper with your results on and you'd had to that

(34:00):
piece of pay back to your parents. Right, It wasn't
on computers. And I can remember handing that paper to
my mum and she was like, oh, Lord Jesus, how
can we look our friends in the eyes when we
tell them out sounds Stephen is not just a simpleton,
but he has our certificate to approve it. And so
I kind of played that. So I wanted to study

(34:20):
law because my passion was to look after the underdog
people faced injustice, you know, because I felt it from
my family and some of my friends, and that is
that's what drove me to kind of want to do that.
But then as I was studying it, and I've gotten
real passion now for real life crime documentaries. Oh my god,

(34:40):
I love those. Yeah, you guys are sick.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
We're sick. We're sick.

Speaker 4 (34:44):
I love it. No, No, we're just very aware. I
would know Laura how to kill you and dispose of
your body, and.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
I was doing with him.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I can't sleep at night because all I think about
is all the many ways that someone's going to sneak
into my house and kill me.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Cawse, Steven is going to.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Sneak into your house and get away with it.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Okay, you guys are doing nothing for your own cause.
It is like, stop it to the two of you.

Speaker 4 (35:05):
And so then I went traveling to New York and
I met a friend who was living there and he
had a sad story as well. He lived in London,
had a nineteenth birthday party and nobody came, so he moved. Yeah,
it was so sad to email, that's.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Actually like devastating. It worse nine a birthday invites out
and no one comes.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
So he moved to America and I went to see him.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
That's a big reaction.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Friends here cares for me.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Nobody cares. But when I say, maybe this might give
it more context for his nineteen birthday party, he had balloons.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Oh your balloons. I don't get it.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Blue balloons.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
He's just a dog. He was a dog. He blew
blues up for his own birthday party and no one came.
I do not even think of dorg. I think there's
nothing wrong with ballons.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Getting lit with a bunch bowl, you know, they get
lit with jelly.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Shots, not getting his second birthday and I did balloons everywhere.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Does that mean we adult?

Speaker 4 (36:00):
Yeah, it's that's quite charming. I see why thirty two.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
That's you're old now because your dog still that's ironic.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, when you're a teenager.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Okay, So he's moved in.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah, and then I would see him, and then staying
with him at the same time was another girl and
I didn't know her. She was Alsom England. And then
she said, after his long weekend, after bottomless bunches, you're
already funny. You should do comedy. And it didn't occur
to me that what I wanted to do as a
lawyer I could do with comedy. And the difference is
I won't take people's baggage home.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, how do you mean you could do the same thing.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
I get people sending me stuff on social media or
back in the day letters telling me how a joke
or routine has really saved their day has made them
forget their worries or so. One young man sent me
a thing about I saw your show today and it's
it's inspired me to tell my parents that I'm gay.

(36:57):
You know, things like that that you don't think about,
because I'm quite a passionate soul, believe it or not.
But that's why I'm in awe of social workers, nurses, doctors,
people like that who take on real hearttache and tragedy
and try. I couldn't do it. I'd be so invested
in your story broken and I'd be broken. I would

(37:18):
be of no use.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Well saying this.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
You know you have children or children, but you have
teenagers who message you and say, you know, you gave
me the confidence to speak to my parents about being gay.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
What was that experience like for you?

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Because when you're so you're spending so much of your
adolescence trying to impress everyone, trying to fit in, trying
to not stand out, and to be like perceived as
being like the good kid. How did they respond to
this or were you able to have a conversation with
your family about it?

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Oh, my goodness, the one Do you know what I had?
I had to spend time dealing with the fact that
I was a black person in London. So let's let's
do that.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
That's what I mean. You're already like.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
I can hide the gay stuff, which yeah, I did.
That could stay on the so I didn't talk about that.
I wore a ring on my wedding finger. When I
think back, it was obviously some sort of decoy. People
made assumptions. I haven't told anybody I was mad, never
told anybody had a girlfriend. People made assumptions. Let me
just deal with the race issue first. Let me just
deal with that and the other stuff can come along.

(38:17):
But the older I got and I thought, you know,
I'm comfortable with who I am. I don't ever want
to be that person who looks over their shoulder, who's
quite scared. I've got friends who are living what they
call on the down low, leading double lives, can imagine.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
But it also living a life like that just leads
to self loathing. It leads to you feeling as though
the person you are authentically is not good enough, or
you won't be accepted, or you'll be that nineteen year
old who has no friends.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
That's what it leads to. But excuse my ignorance, but
at the time and now I'm not sure. I know
there are a lot of African countries that accept being homosexual,
and I know there's a lot of African countries that
absolutely do not. What is Nigeria like or what was
it like? So were your parents going to be accepting
if you told them? Or did you feel like there
was an extra layer of fear because of you know

(39:04):
where they've come from and what they grew up.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Knowing that good question, I would not have sat down
and told them, and I didn't because I didn't want
to put that onto them because I know the history
of the country and I know that it would bring.
Apart from the shame to me that I felt, imagine
going through your life feeling a shame of yourself, I
didn't want the shame for them. So having to carry

(39:27):
something on your shoulders that is invisible to everybody else
is so devastating and it crushes you and you don't
realize you don't know who you are anymore. So it
was easy for me to say nothing and just keep
going and not to burden them with anything. But the
moment I was able to leave my parents' house and

(39:48):
live on my own, I owed nobody a single thing.
You know. I paid my own rent, I paid my
own bills. I'm not asking for anything, and you can
judge me all you want, but as long as you're
not putting food in my mouth what you want.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
I don't know if your parents are still alive, so
please forgive me if this question comes across as ignorant.
Did your parents find out and how did they respond?

Speaker 4 (40:09):
My mother passed seven eight years ago. Now my dad
is alive. Basically he found out when I did a
program called the Pilgrimage The Road to Rome, where a
group of us followed a genuine Roman Catholic pilgrimage from
the bottom of the Swiss Alps into the Vatican. Incredible
and that was bloody incredible, extraordinary. I think it got

(40:29):
shown in Australia as well. And on the last day
it's an incredible walk. I don't walk at all, walking really,
excuse me, I love it.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
That's the most outrageous part of the whole.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
A backpack. Oh god, someone else is carrying this right. Yeah.
And so on the last day of filming they said,
can you all wake up very early because we have
a private half our audience with the Pope wow, and
I was like, my initiative action was absolutely no way.
You know, I've got issues with the Catholic Church as
an institution. You know, why would I want to be
in the company of the head of this church, which,

(41:03):
in my view, would rather I did not exist.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, he says, I'm sinful by being.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Just by being. So I was on the back foot.
But then one of our group is a British TV
presenter of the Islamic faith and marine good friend of mine.
She said, if anybody of any other faith invites me
to their home, I would go. And that taught me
a lesson, I thought one. So I said, yes, I
will go and.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Meet the Pope because he has invited you, this has
invited me.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
I'm going to be a dick about it. But however,
I want to ask questions, you know. And so again
about representation. I thought, if I go on this program
and I'm seen sitting with the Pope as far as
you are for me, and he's just praising me or
blessing me and touching my forehead and I say nothing,
I'll feel like a bit of a dick. So I
just said to him, you know, I've got a couple

(41:46):
of people in my life who were quite religious, and
they passed away. I want to know, as a gay man,
will I ever see them again? I said to him
right there, and I was ready for his answer. I
was ready for him to say, oh, we're all God's
or something to blow me off, right pard in the phrase,
I definitely.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Didn't blow you off because he wants to go to heaven.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
So he said, people put too much emphasis on the
adjective gay rather than the noun man. This is not good.
Those people who put too much emphasis on the addictive gay.
Those people do not have a human heart. We all
have dignity. You do not lose your dignity. And I
was just like blown away in that moment.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
So I misunderstood what was he saying.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
I was saying that if you put too much emphasis
on gay rather than the noun man, right, that's not good.
We should be judging people by being a man.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
So, I mean, does that not go against everything that
the Catholic Church has always said that homosexuality isn't natural?
You cannot be two males or two females and get married.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Does that not completely contradict.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
It does because it didn't explicitly say you're going to hell.
You didn't get Yeah, he didn't say you're going to hell.
And he didn't explicitly say, oh, you're all welcome to heaven.
It doesn't matter. He didn't say that. What he did
was what I thought a very kind of general but
applicating way of kind of saying, you know what, just
because you're gay, I'm not going to be hounding about that,

(43:11):
which if we think about mankind and what the beeples
that man do, what you've got, you've been gay, but
you don't use your dignity. I mean, that was that
was That's what I took away from it, you know.
And the weird thing about that that hit me in
the face and I was nearly in tears. I mean,
you know, I was just like, oh, and some of
the others asked him questions about women's rights to their
bodies in terms of abortion, etc. And he sort of

(43:34):
skirged around that. But when that program was aired, I
was like, oh, my goodness, he's going to get a
lot of stick from this. I'm probably going to get
a lot of stick from this. But whenever it was ed,
I even have the BBC call me up and go,
we're just getting ready just in case anything blows off,
and nothing really blew off. And I thought if I
was maybe a high profile white comedian or maybe some

(43:58):
like Stephen Fryer or somebody, and the Pope said that
to him, that would have been worldwide news because that's
quite I was quite deep.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
It should have been like quite a big moment in
time on TV.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Yeah. I mean so my eger was no because I
just thought, wow, this is and people and I had
people so many people reach out to me when it
came out gay, straight, whatever going. I'm really proud that
you asked that question. I'm really you represented me or
someone who is gay and a Christian struggling with who
they were. So things like that that we don't even

(44:32):
know that we're doing that has such an impact to
other people is why I do this job.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Well, there was the moment where you did come out
as gay in one of your stand up routines.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Yeah, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Assuming that moment was pretty monumental in changing the way
people viewed you. And and actually, when we talk about
having an impact, you don't realize the impact you havent
people's lives. Talk us about the show, the decision to
say do you know what. I'm not hiding anymore. I'm
going to publicly make a joke. Declare it. What?

Speaker 3 (45:00):
What was that moment in time?

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Like it was a situation where I had just done
a season in Australia and I flew back to London
and I was just, you know, unpacking my case, being
not very in the present, and the news is on
in the background and they talked about a body that
was found in a place in southwest done called Clapham Common,
who was the person was killed in a homophobic attack.

(45:22):
And I glanced up with the TV and they put
a picture of the person and it was somebody that
I knew, and I was incandescent with rage and anger
that we live in London, this cosmicpolitan city, that there
are people who will attack a complete stranger to the
point of death because of their sexuality or what they

(45:43):
perceive your sexuality to be. And I thought it was
that moment. I thought, you know what, I can't sit
back and say nothing. I've got to lend a voice up,
voices together and numbers. I can't just wait for pride
and go, you know, wearing hot pants. I've got to
do something. And so I thought I'm going to write
a show called All of Me where I just and
I had to have someone direct the show because I

(46:05):
found it difficult because the one line I said in
the whole show, I didn't say anything else. All I
said is I did the show up and talked about him,
and then I said, oh, and by the way, I'm
attracted to men. That's all I said. And you could
hear audible gasps in the room. I heard a woman's
voice go, what a waste?

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I take that as a compliment.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, I took it as a big compliment. But I said,
then plenty of Stevie to go around, So literally again,
maybe rather than I evely, people start saying, oh, Amos
has come out in this show one of the best
shows ever written. And from that day forth is what
I was described as black gay comedian. Wow. So it
was kind of a double edged sword in a week way.

(46:45):
I'll be talking quite a few years ago now, So
I don't even know whether that held me back in
my career because people don't know where to pigeonhole you.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
But it also brings you into a whole new audience
demographic as well. I mean, I think if someone like
sil Carlson, Like, I went to her show last year
and it was shumongous, Like we're at the Entertained the
Triple C, which is like five thousand people, Like you
couldn't even see that she was a blip on the
stage and it was like such a momentous. But also
like the whole audience, I would have said, majority of

(47:17):
people were a gay audience. They were all people who
were there advocating within like the LGBT community. So I
guess it also in one instance, people who would never
have been interested would have been interested in your comedy
if they thought you were straight, but then have some
deep seated homophobia in them, are going to be turned
off the comedy now. But you've opened yourself up to
a whole authentic community who also like, we appreciate the

(47:40):
humor and we appreciate the subtleties of things that you're
talking about as well.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
I would agree with that, Laura. If I had done
the show in the last sort of five.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Years, right, you think it was predated.

Speaker 4 (47:50):
Back then year it was a completely different TIMEFO remember
exactly when it was. It's probably something probably like fifteen
years ago.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
That is not long enough for so for someone to
have been murdered.

Speaker 4 (48:01):
It is not long ago. But the point is when
I did a show aback, there weren't many at that
time black comics on the circuit in the UK. Yeah,
and there was a black comedy circuit, but there was
no sort of crossover.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
So did that because I'm trying to put myself in
your position in that moment, did you feel like that
was putting a little bit of a bulls eye on
you in terms of Okay, I know there are people
out there murdering people for being gay and black. I'm
a public figure. A lot of people know me, they
know where I am, they know where I'm performing.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
And now I've just laid claim.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
To this obviously because you were trying to change the conversation,
but there must have been a level of you at
that time that's like, holy shit, could I be in dangerous?

Speaker 4 (48:41):
Well? Do you know what? My saving grace in many
ways respects is the fact that social media wasn't a
thing back then. You know, definitely you've been at target
for abuse and online hate and whatever because people think
they have a piece of you, they can get to you.
Even when I first came to Australia, I could count
gay comics openly gay comics on less than one hand.

(49:05):
You know, fast forward fifteen years. I mean you mentioned Ursula, Carson, Reece, Nicholson,
Hannah Gadsby. You know, ten years ago Hannah Gasby show
would not have been a.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Thing totally, you know what I mean, and that height
would have been.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Would have been extraordinary. That's what I mean about how
times and attitude and language have changed. So the people
that were the butt of the jokes are now having
a voice, and that's what people tend to forget. Every
single person on this planet has a story to tell,
and it's how you tell that story.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
I love how that's comfortble circle in terms of what
you said at the very beginning, this idea that you know,
comedians who were punching down, but punching down so significantly,
and now it's like the playing field is more even
because the people who are representing minority groups are able
to have just as loud a voice. And that's probably
the beauty of social media is people are able to
find their communities exactly.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
And also that you extend that to people like Sam Campbell,
who just doing blazing stuff around the world right now
and all the other kind of on the edge kind
of comics who don't quite fit in, don't fit a mold,
who have got an amazing voice, an amazing platform, because
we're more.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Receptive to that totally as a public figure who you
know is public on multiple different platforms, TV, stand up radio,
pod writing, and somebody whose whole job is to walk
the line and push the boundaries and to make people gasp.
What is your thought on cancel culture? And like someone

(50:34):
making a mistake, saying the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing.

Speaker 4 (50:36):
I think cancel culture is dangerous. I think there are
certain people who claim to have been canceled who are
clearly not canceled. You know that there's another double edged
sword there where you know, you've still got a massive platform,
You've still got twenty three million dollars off Netflix. You're
not canceled, but it's now a thing to say. Also,
people jump on a bandwagon. That's a thing. If you

(50:59):
weren't there, you didn't see it, and you didn't get
the context. You've got no voice, you know, don't add
your voice to a story that you know nothing about.
It's easy to do that. Yeah, what we should be
doing is educating each other. People make mistakes. People do
make mistakes. I'm not saying that people should be given
a free pass to say and do whatever they want.
We live in a society where there is something called
freedom of speech, right, but if we have to uphold

(51:22):
the values of freedom of speech, we always have to
uphold the values of freedom of expression, whereby we can
react how we see fit depending what it is. You say. Yeah,
but to count someone immediately without having a due process,
I think is ridiculous. If it's comic you're talking about,
you coun to that person by not buying yet to
get to their show.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
What you don't do is you just go, oh, I
heard through so and so and so and so so
that he might have said that, and it's all muddied
the water, so it's not even factual anymore.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
And also in terms of comedy, I think like and
we've touched on it as well, but like jokes out
of context, and with that, you can't take a joke
out of context. You have to look at a joke
as a bigger picture, or look at the political statement
that making as well, rather than just at being like
a written down line. Because things when they are typed
up sound very different and hit very different to things
that are spoken.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Yes, I think. And also we live in I don't
want to sound like an old man, but we live
in a society where you know, everything is quite immediate,
you know, social media and media. That's one thing I
learned from the jungle. I've now decided to put my
phone down one day a week for twenty four hours. Really. Yeah, absolutely,
I don't care what's going on in the world.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Oh, I have written back to me the last to day, just.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
One though, and I think we could all do with that,
just to kind of take stock and just be present
in the world, you know, because nothing is that important.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Well, before we started this, we were talking about I
asked you what was like your biggest surprise from the jungle,
and you said something really beautiful about it was discovering
more about yourself. Can you give us a bit more
on that, and like, what was the thing that you
took away from it, not just the phone, but about
your own like sense of self, well, my.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
Sense of self. I've always been very self conscious about
my body and my image. For example, my skinny legs.
I've never ever had short on display anywhere. And I
think I told some of the guys in the Jungle Day.

Speaker 6 (53:07):
One, you're never gonna see anything below moneies Stephen when
he says that he had literally his entire life never
gone outside in public, not once in shorts, and the
Jungle was the first time in his life.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Because you're embarrassed, because you like, what was the reason?

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Because as a kid I was made fun of or
my skinny legs. As an adult, I didn't come to
all about my skinny legs. I didn't think my torso
matched my legs. You know, all the ways that you
see yourself that you don't recognize how other people's and
my arms, you know, thank goodness for these guys, you
know my cat mats, because they were the ones going,
oh my god, you've got really strong arms, because you

(53:42):
know you don't see the back of your arms you've got.
I think Callum was the one who told me what
this muscle he is because you took.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Your shirt off one day to get whatever it was
swimming or getting changed, and everyone was like dang because
you always cover it up. Everyone's like damn Stephen, like
you'll get your arms out jacked.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
And he was like, oh my god, don't look at me.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
We're like what we're like, but you're your arms are.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
But I don't think anyone maybe ever said that to
you before.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
So you just had this preconceived idea that was ingrained
in you from a child, from somebody being mean to
you as a kid.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Right, And I think that all those things that form
us in our formative years stay with us and unless
you have a situation where there are people who can
validate you and encourage you and support you. And that's
one thing I found again with the Jungle. I allowed
myself to be vulnerable with eleven strangers and if you
ask any of my friends, that's not me at all.

(54:30):
I would not give relinquished power in that way to
give you. Like That's why I was annoyed when I
started to be described as gay, black, gig or whatever,
because you're giving people ammunition to do things to you.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Yeah, but it's like you're giving the power back, yeah,
to describe you in a way.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
And I think also like a lot of people, not
just comedians, we all do this often. We will say
a joke and be self deprecating, and it's not actually
because we want to make the joke about ourselves, but
it's like, well, if I make the joke you can't make,
I've already done it.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
I'll give it a really silly example. I was with
a friends of mine and well as soon as left
Junger into Brisbane do some shows, and some friends of
mine with there with two of their friends, one of
whom I'd met before on one occasion, and he was
quite merry, quite drunk, brought me a drink and I accepted.
Bad mistake. Someone's drunk, obviously a drink in your company,

(55:22):
you're now accepting him into your fold. The next thing
he said to me, I'm not even joking. He said,
oh oh, let's let's do that nigger thing and brought
his fist towards me and yeah, let's do that. And
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa what?

Speaker 1 (55:36):
You don't get to call me this?

Speaker 4 (55:38):
You know, when did this happen? When did we become
You know, there's certain friends of mine, as we all
know that you say things to each other, wouldn't say openly,
but no, no, no no, Because you brought me a
drink and you're in my company, does that give you
license to say what you want?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Here's my question though, in that to you, when something
is offensive, how imp is intention because he would say, oh,
I didn't intend to offend you, but that doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
You're offended. So where does that line sit between intention
verse offense.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Well, it's a very fine line, I'll give you that.
But as I said before, I think you can always
tell if somebody is being genuine in their curiosity, in
their question, if someone's being provocative. And the reason why
I know for him is because a friend of mine
had already told me that she had challenging about using
the N word.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Before right, and he was like, I'm going to do it.
He felt like he had liberty too.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
And I think because of the drink, you know, yeah,
and because he'd seen me on stage, you know whatever,
I use the N word on stage in context as
a joke, so you must have thought, oh, he's okay
with that totally.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
But no, Yeah, let's take a pivot.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Because I could talked about you, I could talk to
you for so long, but I know we have a
time frame.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
Let's pivot. Pivot, pivot to the Royal family.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
I mean, your hint on I'm a celebrity was loved
by the Royal family, but that's because you have been
invited to perform for them before you do have a.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Bit of a connection to them.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Talk to us about the time that you actually got
to meet them and perform for them.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Oh, I've done Prince Well, the former Prince Charles's birthday,
I was on with.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
You forgot the name Two Legends.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
Joe Rivers's left us and Robin Williams was also on
the bills left us again. It's the perception the members
of the Royal found that I've met are quite funny people.
But yeah, they've got a sense of humor. Yeah, but
we only see one side of them, which is them
opening something, them smiling at something, them waving at something. Yeah,

(57:34):
them delivering a speech in a very sort of stilted,
very professional way. But like all of us, we've got
different facets to our personalities. They're very funny people. I
remember doing a joke when I met the late Prince
Philip and I did the joke about, oh, I really
want to get another BBC series, but as we know,
the BBC has a diversity policy and apparently I've got

(57:57):
to wait for Lenny and Henry to die. You know,
one in one out, Let's not rock the boat joke,
Joe joke and in the lineup, Prince Philip comes to
me and he goes, oh, you're the comedian who wants
Leny Henry to die. We can arrange that. I mean wow.
I mean my old thing is if you don't know people,
we can't judge them. All the flat that Prince Harry
and Meghan are getting, which I mean not man. I

(58:20):
defy anybody to be what nine years old and go
through the death of your mother in the public glare,
and to top that all have to walk behind her
coffin with no emotion and show no emotion as a child. Wow.
You know when I lost my mum, I was in
my late forties and I cried like a baby.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
You spoke about it on m Celebrity. You spoke about
Pallette of Care, that was the charity that you represented. Yes, thanks,
and I I mean unless you've somebody who has gone
through it, I don't think it's an experience that anyone
could really understand. Was it your mum that you were
with alongside? Was that who you were representing in the.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Jungle when I was representing my twin sister essentially, And
that's when I first saw firsthand work that palliative care
charities and organizations do. And the thing I took away
from that is that none of us use those services
until we need them, and so you don't think about it,
You don't think about them. And a lot of the
people who end up working for these charities organizations are

(59:24):
actually volunteers who have been through it and are so
grateful for what they've done that they give something back.
And I was so grateful, and that's why I started
a thing in the UK, collecting money doing charity nights
for two paliative care charities in the UK that are
close to me. And when I came to Australia, I
thought I'd continue the same thing but find a palliative

(59:44):
care charity in the area that I was in, hence
coming across Banks here because their whole ethos, as with
most of these, is the quality of life. They don't
think about the end of life, but the quality of
life and maintaining that. And it could be from anything
from the person who's going through it to their family,
you know, take them out for a day out or
going to the movies or something just to add to

(01:00:07):
the knowledge that yes, the life is limited, but we
don't have to be all sad and gloomy till the
end and we can still embrace the time we have left.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Wow, it's incredible, Isn't it also just that you're not
alone doing it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
You know that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
I think there's so many We're going through it with
my mum and my stepdad at the moment, my stepdad,
he's entering palliative care, and we have someone who's like
going through that transition with my mum and she was
so alone and she was so like, I don't know
what to do, there's no one here to help, and
it's been revolutionary for her, really has helped her so much. So, Yeah,
I think unless you've unless you've seen it firsthand, like

(01:00:43):
you really don't realize how important it is.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Oh, Laura Darling, I feel you. I feel you because honestly,
that's why really wants to highlight I don't want to
say the industry, but this whole area because it's so important.
I can see the emotions are coming out of you
already because I went through the same thing, and I'm
really good friends out with some of the people who
work in these palliative care charities because I'm in awe

(01:01:06):
of them. I'm in awe because like I said earlier,
I couldn't do that job because.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
You'll we take it all home. Yeah, I can't, will.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
Take it all. And you see, people were so selfless
and the little things matter when you think you're alone
and you can pick up a phone or you can
referral to this or that and they are there for you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Twenty four to seven takes a very special person. Yeah, Stephen,
I said it before.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
We could have talked to you forever, but unfortunately we
do have a timeframe. But i can't thank you enough
for coming on and I'm so glad we got to
do it while you were here in person before you
choof back off to the UK. One thing I will
say that I almost forgot about, but talking about crazy
experiences coming full circle. When I got out of the jungle,
I facetimed Ben, like my boyfriend Ben straight away Han's

(01:01:51):
being between a month and Stephen was this at the
hotel and Ben goes to me Stephen taught me English
and I was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Like, what, Stephen, You're like doing this on the side, Well,
Stephen English teacher, and He's like no.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
When Ben moved from Switzerland to d UK at fifteen,
his English was not great, right, like enough to get by.
But the way that they would learn English is to
watch something that you love in English.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
So he used to just watch the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
Comedy shows on the Apolo online and he just watched
Stephen over and over and over again. And he's like,
I literally learned English from Stephen. And I was like,
how amazing is that? Like seventeen years later, I'm locked
in the jungle with this guy that taught my partner English.
I think that is such a crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
And how for Jeurch is that I was there in
that moment and then you put the FaceTime phone into
me and I got goosebumps today, and that I think
you're absolutely right when it goes full circle. You have
no idea what you do, how that affects somebody else.
If it wasn't for me, Ben would not speak English.
And so I think you owe me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I owe you my relationship.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Isn't that It's amazing how you touch a people's life
in some sort of way without knowing, without knowing. And
that's why I think I said to Britt when my
partner was in the jungle and I introduced him to Britt,
the first thing you said was his sister who lived
in rural England listens to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
What's her name?

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
Her name is Rosie Sington.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Hi Rosie, But how crazy, Like it's so cool to
have someone.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
That lives in like rural England.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Also, I just felt a bit of flex in that
moment because I was like, oh cool, I got some credibility,
like Stephen knows I'm someone in here, like see people
actually listen to the book.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Is the fact that I had to connected with you
with Ben and then I had a connection back at
you with my It was just like, because you don't
know how things are connected, I didn't know about your
story and all I can do is send all best
wishes to your mum and the chap because it is
a difficult time, but with a palliative care team behind you,

(01:03:53):
it can be better and slightly easier, and that's all
you need.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Stephen, Thanks, thank you so much for coming and being
a part of the podcast. Like I said, I feel
like I already had seen such a version of you
meeting you in the flesh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
He's better in real life, right, Yeah, I mean everything's
better in real life, right. But it's so nice. It's
so nice to meet you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
For your vulnerability, thank you for sharing everything so openly,
and yeah, it's just been it's been a real pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
If you guys ever get a chance to go and
see Stephen in Australia or in the UK, anywhere in
the world that he is. You are constantly coming back
to Australia like you have a big fumily here and
you're always performing back at home as well. Please go
and see him. He's got what's your website?

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Oh Ohtamars dot com. We'll link it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
I love the confidence. We'll put it in the show notes.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Thank you, Zevi, thank you very much. Thank you,