Why Is Everyone Craving “Chalant Dating?” Uncut with Logan Ury

We’ve done a lot of episodes about dating in the past. We’ve actually done a few about dating with today’s guest! But we’ve recently had a bit of feedback that some of you in the dating scene are really struggling to find the motivation to keep dating at the moment. Some of you feel exhausted. Others feel a bit hopeless, and it turns out, you’re not alone. There has been a big cultural shift in what women want when it comes to dating and it’s got a trendy new name - “chalant dating”.

To break it down with us we have friend of the podcast Logan Ury here! Logan is a Harvard trained behavioural scientist, dating expert, author, host of Netflix’s“The Later Daters,” and Hinge's lead Relationship Scientist. Logan has spent years and years unpacking the science behind dating and finding successful relationships. 

We speak about:

• The dating trends that we’re going to see in 2026
• What is chalant dating?
• Why do we want chalant dating more than what a potential future partner might earn or even look like?
• Why there seems to be a mismatch in expectations between men and women
• The toilet paper test
• The actual green flags around planning energy we should look for
• What are the ‘successful’ people doing on dating apps at the moment?
• Do you feel like you’re ‘undateable?’
• The steps you can take if you’re feeling burnout from dating
• The switch from a ‘soulmate’ mindset to a ‘work it out’ mindset
• How AI will change the dating landscape
• Summer dating trends, cuffing season and what we tend to see when it gets colder
• The most popular day of the year on dating apps is coming up really soon

You can find more from Logan at her website and her Instagram
You can read the whole report from Hinge here 

You can find some of our previous episodes with Logan cloud And here 

You can watch us on Youtube

Find us on Instagram

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Or join the Facebook Discussion Group

Hosted by Britt Hockley & Keeshia Pettit 

Produced by Keeshia Pettit

Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford

Recorded on Cammeraygal Land

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on Cut.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm Brittany and I'm Keisha, And look, I think the
number one thing that we would tend to talk about
on Life on Card over the last six years is dating.
And we've done a lot of episodes about different aspects
of dating. We've actually even done a couple of episodes
with Today's guest about dating. But we keep on getting
the same feedback that some of you in the dating
scene at the moment, you're really struggling to find that
motivation to keep on dating, looking.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
At very exhausting and very repetitive and very monotonous and
very disheartening.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
And I think that if you're listening and you're one
of these people who are just like I'm starting to
feel really hopeless, turns out you are absolutely not alone.
There's been a really big cultural shift in what women
want out of dating, and there's even a trending new
term to go along with it. It is called chalant dating.
Research shows that women care a lot more about shalon
dating than what they care about what a future partner

(01:03):
might earn or even what they might look like. So
joining us today to break it down is friend of
the podcast Logan. Yuri Logan is a Harvard trained behavioral scientist,
a dating expert, and author, host of Netflix is the
Later Datas and Hinga's lead relationship scientist. Logan has spent
years and years unpacking the science behind dating and finding

(01:24):
successful relationships.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
And Logan, I.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Actually think we were talking about this just before. I
think you are the most frequented guest on a Life
on Cut production.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
This is your full time.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
I made it.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I made it one hundred and do you know what
what I want to say here is Logan. You were
just doing some things with Chloe Kardashian, which is absolutely huge,
but we had you first. So just on record, we
had you for Chloe. Sorry, Chloe, get in line.

Speaker 5 (01:54):
Honestly, we need to do our next one in person.
We need to do like a live event. I got
him make my way to you.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh please, like, let's lock that in if you come
to Australia we will one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, We're record a whole series with you, Logan.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
But today's episode is not just for people who are single,
who are in the dating landscape. We're also going to
unpack how almost all of us have fallen into autopilot,
and what we can do to make our relationships feel
a lot more satisfying.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
And I want to start logan by saying, your dedication
is to tracking and predicting trends in dating. What has happened,
what is happening, what's going to happen, What are you
seeing for I guess, I want to say, I guess
twenty twenty six, like, what cultural change have you seen
now as we're coming to the end of twenty twenty five?

Speaker 5 (02:38):
Yeah, So, thank you both so much for having me.
I'm glad I can take this reward as most frequent gas.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
We don't actually have an award for you.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
We should.

Speaker 5 (02:47):
Oh, no, okay, it's not too late. It's not too late.
I'm just thrilled to be talking about this topic in
particular because it's something really near and dear to my heart,
which is this idea of chalant dating. People are really
looking for someone who puts an effort, who's intentional, who's
a planner, who really puts that effort in. And I
feel like, personally and I want to hear your perspective, like,

(03:09):
I'm just sick of all the nonchalant dating of people
being afraid to be cringe, afraid of rejection, afraid of
getting hurt, and really just not being willing to try.
And chalant dating is about kind of willing to make
that risk because love is worth it. And so I
love the fact that people are really looking for someone

(03:30):
who's a planner and who puts the effort in And
isn't you know, too cool for school?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I mean, I definitely. I know you say you want
to get a perspective. I will talk about some stuff.
I have some friends that like daping the throws of it.
But before we do, just tell us what is chalant dating.
I'm assuming it's the opposite of nonchalant exactly.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah, So at Hinge, we noticed there was this call
on social media for people to be more chalant, and
so chalant dating is really looking for someone who's intentional,
who puts an for someone who makes a plan and
follows through. And as I said, it's really a backlash
to a trend of nonchalant dating where people were afraid
to take a chance or seem on cool and they

(04:10):
weren't putting the affort in. And so I'm really happy
to see the pendulum swinging back in this direction.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
I feel like in Australia, like we're kind of known
for being the laid back culture. We're very kind of jovial,
and I would say that in my experience, most Australians
when it comes to dating, particularly straight men, take.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Nonchalants to a whole new level.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Like we speak about this all the time in the
podcast BRIT's Obsessed with Foreigners.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
We always knew she was going to end up with
a foreigner.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, IM married Swiss.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
But I feel as though there's something specific about the
Australian culture that it's almost like it was marketed, almost
like it was endearing for these Aussie men to be
really laid back and not really care and YadA YadA.
What do you think led to this kind of pushback
of going, we don't want this laid back way.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
I don't want to be wondering whether you're into me.
Was it the fact that that was cool?

Speaker 6 (05:00):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Do you think that people just got lazy?

Speaker 5 (05:02):
So I'm not an expert necessarily on exactly the scene
in Australia, but I can tell you what I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Tell us what's wrong with that country?

Speaker 5 (05:10):
No, I want to hear more about that. I mean,
I would just say like, in general, kind of speaking globally,
trends that I've been seeing for a long time. I
think that with gen Z in particular, there's sort of
a feeling of the worst thing you can be is cringe. Yeah,
And so there's almost it's almost as if people are
allergic to earnestness. And so I remember I was doing
some gen Z research and you know, there's a Hinge

(05:32):
prompt like one thing I want to do this year
and he put die oh, and I was like what,
that's such a weird prop response. He's like, no, gen
Z girls love it because like it's so sarcastic, and
I was like, okay, I'm not like totally getting the
humor here. And I just feel like it was like,
you know, maybe like someone else would have put like

(05:53):
run my first marathon or like look how to learn
how to cook French food, and he was like killing
it on Hinge writing die And so I just feel
like there has been this feeling of like the less
you seem to care, the cooler you are. And now
I think people are just like, you know what, I
actually do want someone to care about me. And I
was really reflecting on this when we did the Hinge date,
and I was thinking about, like, with my husband, We've

(06:14):
been together for over ten years, and like some of
the things he does that make me feel so good
are when I'm leaving the house early in the morning
for a flight and he puts a piece of tape
on the doorknob that's like, don't forget your lunch, it's
in the fridge, and like just things like that. It's
like it's so small, but it's like the effort of
like thinking about you. I want to make your life better,

(06:34):
and like I put this small thing out into the
world to show you that I care, And like, who
doesn't want that? I think it's so romantic, and so
I think that everyone, maybe since the pandemic, has been
playing this game of you know, the battle of who
can care less? And now I think people are like, uh,
low key, like I care and I want you to
care too.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, And I think, like going back to Australia, it
would be interesting for you guys. They had to study
Australia as a dating And I say that because it's
not just Australians women that feel it, Like Australian women
will all tell you that men don't put the effort in.
The men are too laid back. I don't want a
blanket statement. There are some incredible Australian men obviously, but
as a whole, I think it's okay to say that

(07:14):
we are very very laid back. And we will say
to you, let's go on a date, right Like we'll say, hey,
want to catch up first, want to hang out on
the weekend And you'll say yep, And they'll say, okay,
we'll let you. We'll let you know closer, and then
it'll be like the day of and then they'll say, hey, like,
I'm just gonna hang out with my friends, like nothing's
you don't ever feel like any effort is being put
in in Australia. And they don't see that as doing

(07:36):
anything wrong. They just see that as like that's that's
our Australian landscape and it's not just us. You'll see
women come from America and women come from the UK
and they all say the same thing. They're like, what
is with the men here? Like no one approaches me
when I go out, no one offers to take me out,
no one asks me out, no one buys me a
drink when they do ask me out, it's like, hey, like,
wanta maybe go for a swim for half an hour.

(07:58):
It's a really weird dating scene here. And going back
to what you were just saying about, there's just like
the least amount of effor put in. My friend just
told me this literally three hours ago. She was talking
to a guy online and they made the big move
to WhatsApp. You know, it's like, hey, let's like take
this offline swamp numbers, and the first thing like her,

(08:18):
I'm just going to change her name. Her name is Sarah.
The first thing that he wrote. He was like hey Ellen, Hey,
hey Ellen, how's your weekend? And she's like close, sorry,
it's Sarah. And he was like that's the most fasic
close but not close enough.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
You have a name.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
And then he didn't even care. He goes, oh, what'sapp
told me it was a different name, and she's like, no,
it didn't. You're just obviously dating mold people at once,
which is fine, but that's and then he's like, oh, yeah,
you about it. But that's the level of like no
fox given nonchalance.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
It's interesting to think about, like what is just dating
today and what is dating in Australia, and so it
sounds like you think Australian guys in particular are very nonchalant.
Would you also say that it's just an Australian culture
thing and that Australian women are also more laid back.
I mean, these are obviously huge generalizations.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
I think it would be, I mean, again, a generalization.
I think it's that we have been conditioned to expect.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
That this is the landscape.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Like I think a lot of women that I talked to,
and especially when I was in the dating world, I
wanted the effort, but I didn't want to seem high
maintenance and I didn't want to seem like I was
expecting the world from someone that I didn't really know,
because I thought that that would be a turn off.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Or at the point where we just take the wrong name,
we're like, I'll take it, I'll be on and shouts.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
You can call me whatever you want for the rest
of our relationship. But something I thought that was really
interesting that you guys found in this Hine report that
you did about chalant dating was that people are now
prioritizing this effort ahead of other things. So what are
some of the things that they're saying that they would
prefer this effort instead of right.

Speaker 5 (09:52):
This was a really fascinating thing, and so I think
the first thing that I wanted to talk about was
just this idea of chalant dating, that it's a backlash
to people not caring an people want to have effort.
But then we really get to this question of why.
I think a big reason why we're seeing this, especially
from straight women, is that culturally things have really shifted.
And so if you think about a lot of human history,

(10:15):
you know, women really look to men to be the providers.
Like they couldn't work outside of the home, like in
the United States, Like women couldn't get their own credit
card without a male family member or husband, like until
the late seventies, like women were really you know, they
didn't have the same opportunities. And now women have risen up,
and in many ways that's amazing, and so women are

(10:36):
making more money, they're making you know, close to her
as much of in some situations, more than men. And
so this idea of the man needing to be the
provider has changed because a lot of women are their
own providers. And then it sort of becomes well, if
you're not going to be my provider, what is your
role in my life? And I think women are raising
the bar and they're saying I want more from you,

(10:57):
like I want you to have that planner energy, I
want you to be emotionally available and open. And so
I think we're really seeing this shift where the dating,
the dating playbook, the dating trends have not caught up
with the data of men and women being more equal
in the workplace and in other parts of our lives.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Do you think that men are struggling with what it
means to be a modern man, like, you know, if
so many of us women are saying, we don't need
you to financially provide for us anymore, we actually want
this deeper emotional connection and you need to come to
the table in other ways, do you think that they're
struggling to know what their role is in the dating world.

Speaker 5 (11:35):
Yeah, that's definitely something that I'm seeing. I'm seeing it
on podcasts, I'm seeing it in conversations with friends, I'm
seeing it with coaching clients that I have, and I'm.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Seeing it in the data.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
There's this sense of you know, for many, many years,
and this is a quote from one of my friends,
He's like, we were all born being taught how to
catch a lion, and our whole lives we've been taught
how to catch a lion, and that means being a provider.
And now women are saying, oh, we can catch our own.
We need you to catch a tiger, which is being
emotionally available and supporting us in all these ways, and

(12:04):
the guys are like, what, I don't know how to
catch a tiger. And so I think for them, they
feel like they're less sure about who they need to be.
It's less clear to them than it probably was for
their father and grandfather and many generations back what it
means to be a man. And so I think we're
in that uncomfortable place where people are figuring out what
modern gender role means. And I think that it's caused

(12:26):
a lot of friction and discomfort for people.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
How is it that planet energy would actually help them
in the dating world? And what is planet energy that
women seem to be wanting.

Speaker 5 (12:37):
Yeah, So what we found in our data is that
seventy two percent of women said that they care more
about a potential partner putting an effort in building a
relationship than having a higher income than them. And so
I think this all kind of goes back to it.
It's like I want a partner. I want somebody who says,
I'm going to take care of this, and you take
care of this. I'm going to have someone who you know,

(12:58):
sits me down and says, hey, like this isn't working,
I want to talk about this. And I think that,
as we said before, because women can more provide for themselves,
they're looking for something else. They're looking for the emotional
energy and they're looking for the effort, and that's part
of what the planner energy is. And I feel this
way strongly. I don't know if you feel this way
in your relationship that I really do do all the planning.

(13:20):
I feel like I plan all the trips, I plan
all the date nights. Now we have a daughter, I
feel like I plan a lot of that. And my
husband does a lot of things for our relationship, but
it's not really planning energy. And that's something that moms
talk about a lot, like the emotional labor and the
mental load of like carrying all of this. And I
think so much of planning energy falls on women, and

(13:40):
that's why it's so meaningful and it's very attractive when
guys do have that plan or energy because it's like
taking the load off of us.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
So, for example, I.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
Think one of the reasons why there's a few reasons,
but I think one of the reasons why we still
have engagements where the man proposes to the woman is
because part of what's romantic about that is the guy
actually putting the plan into action, having the planner energy
and be like I gathered your friends and I brought
them together, and I texted your sister for your ring size,

(14:10):
and I figured it out. And it's like, there's a
lot of ways to get engaged, but I think a
lot of the ways that we talk about are this
very particular kind of planner energy from the guy. And
I think it's because women feel like a lot of
times the planner energy falls on them. And also it's
a sign of how much you like me. It's like,
are you willing to spend thirty minutes looking up restaurants

(14:31):
and finding one close to my apartment and something the kind.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
Of food that I like?

Speaker 5 (14:35):
Like that sort of effort, intentionality showing that you care
goes so far. And I feel like you hear these
guys like, oh, like women want you to fly them
to the moon. Women want everything like they want they
want this, and that is like, we just want you
to like know the name of our best friend, put
some effort into the date, and be a little thoughtful.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Just no ourn name y. It's wild, but that is
I know my name. The bar is so but it's
interesting and it's frustrating because the bar is so low
logan Like, it's like it's like somebody comes in, a
guy comes in and is like, hey, I've spent twenty
minutes planning dinner, and you're like, you tell your friends, right,
You're like, it's so thoughtful, like he went out of

(15:14):
his way to find it's sorry, Fuck, I do that
every day all day, Like that's what I'm doing, you know.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I think that this extends, though, And I was actually
having this conversation with a girlfriend of mine the other
day who has just moved in with her boyfriend. And
what was so interesting about it is that I think
it's actually the same behavior that you can look for
in the early stages of dating. Someone who's going to
be willing to look up a restaurant and make a
reservation is the type of person. And this was what
our conversation was about who is also going to notice

(15:42):
when you're getting low on toilet paper and when you
need to restop the washing detergent, and that kind of
forward thinking mentality of the mental load doesn't all need
to be on you. And I kind of joked with
her that something I was careful about in my own
relationship was that when we moved in together, I didn't
want to naturally assume to be the person who always

(16:03):
needed to order the bin bags or no one supplies
for the house were going to run out. And I
said to her, I was like, I know it's a
little bit, it's a tiny bit manipulative, but I want
you to put a toilet roll aside somewhere, like in
your underwear drawer, somewhere that who doesn't.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Go this toilet role.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Some people need to run out of toilet paper before
they realize, oh, my partner isn't always going to be
the one who makes sure that I have this shit sorted,
like I also need to take accountability and responsibility within
their house.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
And I know it sounds ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
But I was like, for some men in particular, and
I could be stereotyping, and I probably am, I think
that they actually need to get the consequence of not
having this planning energy.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
You need to have shit on your ass to know
what you can take a shower before you Really.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
Honestly, I think this has viral potential. The toilet paper.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's funny. He's just care if he comes home at night.
She just wants to know this toilet paper.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
How did it go for your friend?

Speaker 3 (17:04):
I mean, I'll check it where they're in saying it,
but I just wanted to make sure that she wasn't
going to be the one assuming all of the mental
load in their relationship. And I think that this is
really related to what women are saying that they want
him dating now. They just want the We don't want
these extravagant six hundred dollar dinners with a helicopter ride.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
We want those two. We want the toilet paper so
that we can go today.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I just want you to know that my favorite food
might be Italian, and so you've thought about the cool
Italian places in our neighborhood that we could go to.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
I think about this topic a lot, and it's not
like I think every single activity in a partnership has
to be shared. I think sometimes you can divide and conquer,
so like, for example, I like doing laundry.

Speaker 4 (17:45):
It doesn't bother me.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
I do all of the laundry, and then my husband
does all this stuff related to our baby's diapers, and
like I don't even know where he gets them from,
Like he's just in charge of that. And so I
do think sometimes division of labor is great. But what
you're saying about the toilet paper is so true, which
is this is a sign of how somebody will be
in the future. And so I think so many times

(18:06):
people are looking for green flags that are really just
how hot someone is, like how tall are they or
how much money do they have, or this and that
about their physical appearance, and I'm like, no, look for
green flag around planning energy. Look for the green flags
around They care about you, and they want to put
effort in. They are able to think in advance, they

(18:27):
can make a plan be if it's going to rain.
Like those are the things that are sexy to me,
especially at this stage of life, where I'm like, that's
what really matters on a weekly basis, Like in a
marriage when you have kids, it's like is this person
also thinking ahead or you the only one who's thinking ahead?

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, I'm going to send this to my husband. He's
not a planner. I'm gonna make a toilet paper now
he had toilet papers. It's too late for her to
my husband. I'm not going to turry about the busie,
but the planning pot. He doesn't get to the point that. Like,
we got married a couple of months ago and I
basically did the whole thing fine. I also had a
wedding planner, like he assisted with some things, but I

(19:05):
left him to plan the three nights after the wedding,
the honeymoon. It got to check out of the wedding.
We were getting picked up in fifteen minutes from an
uber and I said to him, where are we going?
He didn't hadn't booked anything fifteen minutes.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
That's so frustrated.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Oh. I was like, I love you, and it's too
late because I married you yesterday. But I was like,
has that paperwork gone through yet? But I can there
the things. I think he just wasn't worried about it.
He's like, Oh, we'll just go on and book something now.
And I was like, you've just missed the point.

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Yeah, what did you guys end up doing? Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:36):
I feel so bad saying it. My My best friend
was there. He was part of the bridal party, and
he's like, man, what the fuck. He's like, Oh, this
book is something he went on and booked something in
the minute, and he booked us something for the night.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Anyway, this is why they need the consequences of the
toilet paper running.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:54):
No, I feel that so hard. Like my husband was
so annoying during wedding planning. Like I remember in therapy
and being like, you know, is this like a terrible sign?
And like is he going to be a bad father
because he's not planning the wedding and this and that,
And she's like, no, he's not interested in planning the wedding,
so he's not doing it. But if he has a
kid with you, he'll be interested in that. And this
is a totally different thing. And like that has been drew.

(20:16):
My husband has been a great bother, But I do
feel like wedding planning in particular brings out such a frustration.
I mean, it's just very it's frustrating. There's a lot
of money, there's a lot of family. It's just creates
a lot of friction. But I think that kind of
goes back to what we're talking about which is like,
because women often feel like they are the planners. When
a guy puts that planning energy out there, it's like

(20:38):
such a relief, it's so refreshing, it's so hot.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Like when a guy takes any of the mental load,
it's like you panties are off. But that's the other
thing too. I think people underestimate that.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
It's a great quote.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
You can tell that one too. People underestimate men, I
should say, but the fact that the mental load is
far more exhausting than physical load half the time, like
when you do not switch off your brain ever, especially
as a mom and a woman, because when you go
to bed, you don't go to bed and be like ah,
with a sigh of relief. You go to bed thinking,
oh my god, I didn't do this for the morning.

(21:08):
I've got to do this as exam. It's like for
anybody to take that load off you is is the
best thing they can do. What are you seeing on
online dating? What men are doing well on there? Like
what are the successful men doing?

Speaker 5 (21:23):
We talked about this, but it's like this effort goes
so far, and so I feel like the bar is
quite low for a lot of people. So just that
extra effort of like commenting on your picture instead of
just sending a like, or pretty quickly being like, hey,
let's move this as you said to WhatsApp and I'll
call you the right name, or let's go on a date.

Speaker 6 (21:41):
Like.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
I think that because there's been all this nonchalant energy
out there, people are that are actually being intentional, being
clear about what they want, being willing to be a
little silly. I think that that's going really far because
I think that if there's a world of everyone just
trying to play it cool, then who makes the first move,
who takes the who gets into the relationship. I met

(22:03):
this guy recently. He's sort of a famous author in
the United States. He writes kind of psychology books. And
he was telling me about how he met his wife
and like why he ended up going on a date
with her. And he was asking me like, why do
you think it happened? Do you think it was because
of this? Do you think it is because of this?
And then I was like, I don't know. I give up,
and he's like, it's because I asked. He's like I

(22:24):
met her. We met a few times, and then I
asked her to go out, Like turns out. A lot
of people don't ask like the super pretty women to
go out on a date, and I.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Just felt like it was such a good message.

Speaker 5 (22:34):
It's like the person that makes the effort is the
one who wins. The person who shows up has a
greater chance of success, and like it feels like one
of those cheesy motivational posters that you might have in
an office in the nineties, but it's so true. It's
like the people who are getting farther than other people
in dating today are the ones who are clear about
what they want, who are willing to go after what

(22:57):
they want, and who have really more at bas because
the more times that you get a chance to try,
the more likely you are to be successful. And I
think the people that are sitting back to be cool
are losing out.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Is that across the genda in sexuality spectrum or is
that specific to like, you know, the straight guys are
doing well if they're putting in I fit, and however
the women who might you know, do better are doing
this other thing.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
So obviously there are differences across countries and across age
groups and across sexualities and general expression and all of
those things. But I would say in general, the people
who actually go on to Hinge are willing to be
more earnest on their profile, are more willing to say
the relationship type that they want, and they fill out

(23:43):
more and they have voice memos like we do see
that that's really correlated with people that go on more
dates and have more matches and you know, find someone
and delete the app. And I think it's just good
advice and everything. It's like most things in life worth
doing are things that you have to take a risk for,
and the people who are willing to take that risk
are the ones who are the most successful.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Do you think that this differ is if you're a
man or a woman. And what I mean by that
is when a woman says a man putting in the
effort and being forward and saying what they want and
being emotionally available, it's hot, it's what we're looking forward, like, great,
he's not playing games. The antithesis of that is when
a woman says, Hey, this is what I want, this
is what i'm looking for, go out with me. I'm ready.

(24:24):
I want something stable. The men are like WHOA, Like
you're a bit full on, you're coming on too hard.
I'm looking for something casual. It just doesn't hit the same.
What do you think is like the meat in the middle.

Speaker 5 (24:35):
I agree with you, I don't think it's exactly the same.
And like, honestly, so many of the people that I
coach and have coach for the last ten years are
kind of that kind of woman who's like when it
comes to my career, like I set a five year
milestone and I go after what I want and if
I wanted to run a marathon, I would get a trainer.
And like, it's frustrating that love is something that you

(24:55):
can't just set a plan and perfectly execute it because
there's sort of another person involved. And so I do
totally get where you're coming from, which is like we're
saying that women are super turned on by that planning energy,
and like, I agree with you. I don't think guys
are like, Ooh, I love this girl, she's such a planner,
because I think that they take it for granted more.

(25:15):
And so really, I think like the crux of this
conversation is really about the fact that for most of
human history, women really relied on men for some of
the basic things like security and money and providing food
and all of these things, and now, because of fifty
years of progress for women, women don't need that as much,
and so they're kind of looking around and they're like,

(25:36):
why are we in this relationship? Oh? Yeah, I want
you to provide emotional openness for me. I want you
to care about my life. I want you to be
a different type of partner than maybe my dad was
to my mom or previous generations were. And so I
think that it's not that everything is equal where men
are like, yeah, I love planning energy. It's that we're

(25:56):
kind of just reconfiguring how we want to be in
relationship and why we're in relationships.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Look, and something I remember when I was in the
dating world, and something that now in hindsight, I think
probably took up a far more amount of mental energy
than what it should have, was that I had this
underlying insecurity that I didn't think people would see me
as being like relationship material, And the longer time that
I spent being single, the worse that insecurity for me got.

(26:24):
I just seem to have this idea that if the
guy I was talking to found out that I had
been single for one year or two years or like,
I could extend this as far as like, I have
friends who have been single for over five years now
where they've not had a committed relationship in that period
of time, and I mean I was nearly a decade, yeah,
But I think that, like there was something about me
thinking if I tell them that of how long I've

(26:48):
been single for, is that going to indicate to them
that I'm not going to be the person that they
get into a relationship with. And I think the opposite
can apply as well, when people find out that you
are always a relationship goally.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
In my mind, I thought that they would find that
more attractive. Do you have any research from Hinge that
would kind of indicate whether either of those situations actually
is true?

Speaker 5 (27:10):
So what I can point to is more anecdotal, which
is that I've been sending out this weekly newsletter for
five years and the number one email that I've gotten
the most responses to you out of everything for five
years is this email that I wrote a few years
ago called are you Undtable? And it was this idea
that so many people feel like there's this part within
us that makes us unworthy of love.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
And it might be.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Because, as you said, we've dated too many people, and
what will people think about that we haven't dated enough,
so people don't think we have the experience. It might
be that somebody has an STI, it might be that
somebody has a chronic illness that they're caring for an
aging parent. So many people wrote back and said like,
this is why I feel like I'm undatable, and the
work that I do to help people with that is

(27:51):
to really come up with the narrative that helps them
express who they are without apologizing for it. And so,
for example, the one that you were talking about, you know,
haven't dated enough, I think the person could say something like,
you know, I took a few years off from dating.
I was really focused on my career. I had so
many fun experiences. I got to travel around the world.

(28:12):
But now I've done a lot of self work and
I've realized that I'm really excited about finding someone and
so far dating has been going really well. Or just
you know something like that. It's like, well, while i
haven't had a ton of boyfriends in the past, I'm
actually very relationship oriented and I'm super close with all
my friends from college, and I have a really great
relationship with my nieces and nephews, and I do prioritize relationships.

(28:34):
I just haven't been in as many romantic relationships, and
I think in practicing that and having a go to line,
it can be very freeing for people because instead of
going to the date and kind of white knuckling it
and being like, oh, what is the point where they're
going to ask me the question where I have to
admit this thing that makes me undateable? Instead they're like, Okay,
I'm ready for that question. And I have something that

(28:54):
explains who I am, but it doesn't say do you
accept me? Am I good enough? And I read this
line recently that I thought was helpful, which was share
your scars, not your wounds, and so sort of say like,
this is what happened to me, but like here's how
I dealt with it or how I overcame it. And
by showing your scars not your wounds, you're not saying
like this is a fresh thing, I'm sharing too much information.

(29:17):
You're really saying like, this is the journey I've been
on and here's why I'm a better person for it.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
And I think don't underestimate the way that you speak
to yourself. And when I say that, it's very easy
I got into that position, Keisha, I know you did too.
But when you haven't dated for a few years or
dated successfully for how you think successfully is in terms
of it goes to a long term relationship, it's very
easy to say, oh, I'm the problem, I'm the common denominator,
like I'm undateable, I'm unlovable, no one wants me, and

(29:44):
all of this stuff. You start to believe it it's
not true. Imagine if we all just fell in love
and married the first person we ever dated. The odds
of that are so slim and great if you've done it.
But I think it's important to remember that this is
a part of finding your person. Your penguin is like,
you have to go through this to figure out what
works and what doesn't and what's not right for you.

(30:04):
But the way that you speak to yourself has such
an impact on the way that you're going to go
into that date as well, because if you're constantly telling
yourself like, he's not gonna like me like everyone else anyway,
well he's probably not gonna because you're going to take
that energy into your dating life. So I think that
that's something that we all need to consciously be aware of.
Because it is a slippery slope to get into that
negative mindset.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
Yeah, I love that point, and I'd love to hear
from both of you. You know, it sounds like you
both went through periods of being single for a while,
Like how did you make that shift towards feeling like
I'm ready to did and meeting the right person? How
did you do that?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well?

Speaker 3 (30:37):
I think like, and this is kind of related to
something that I would love to actually get your advice
on for other people.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I actually bought the toilet paper.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
I got to that point where I was I was
really really burnt out, and I was really exhausted from
feeling as though I just I was really trying to
do all of the right things. In hindsight, I was
probably trying a little bit too much, and I trying
to force you know, a square peg roundhole situation a
couple of times in a row. And I remember I

(31:06):
took a couple of months off where I didn't have
any apps, and I also wasn't proactively like messaging anyone
and on social media or whatever it might be. I
just I kind of put the brakes on a little bit,
and I sat down with myself and I really went through.
I think I actually it must've been around the time
that we'd spoken to you Logan, because I remember going
through and being like, I need to get rid of
this six foot filter, like I don't yeah, five foot two,

(31:29):
it doesn't fucking matter, Like it doesn't matter. And I
was like, what do I actually want the characteristics of
someone to be? And I kind of went back in
and I remember deliberately going through and swiping or like
whatever the function is, like the tick thing or on
people that.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I probably would have not previously.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Thought were my type. But I was like, what I'm
doing is not working. I need to try something different.
And that was the thing that I found in my
now partner of two and a halve half years. I've
said this before, and I've kind of apologized to him, saying,
I hope you don't find this offensive. The only reason
that we are together.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Is because he had consistency. He called and texted me.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
There was not one moment that I wondered, will he
text me today, Oh, I haven't heard from him, And
not in an obsessive way. It was just that from
the moment that we started speaking, we didn't stop speaking,
and it wasn't overwhelming, and it wasn't over the top,
and it wasn't love bombing. It was consistency, and I
had never had that before, Like I'd never had the

(32:31):
security of that before. And I still say, that's the
only reason that we are That's the only reason that
it worked.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
He put in effort.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
This whole chalant dating thing was very very new to me,
and like that was the so far, the only.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Successful relationship that I've had.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
So what would your advice be to people who are
in that phase where they are just so exhausted from
being the one who is always trying to make it
happen and trying to get these dates and talking to
all these people and doing all of the things that
you're supposed to do and they're feeling completely exhausted and
hopeless from it.

Speaker 5 (33:07):
Well, first of all, I love that story and I
think it's so great. I mean, I think if more
people like follow that exact path, like they would find
love too. And I'm just thinking about, you know, a
guy might see you and be like, oh, she's so pretty.
I bet she just went for like the wealthiest guy
or the tallest guy, or the guy with the fanciest job,
And you're like, no, it's way more simple than that. Yeah,

(33:29):
it's literally like the person that was consistent. And I
think so often people confuse someone who's consistent with someone
who's boring, and what they're actually realizing is, oh, well,
when somebody is hot and cold, when somebody likes you
one day and doesn't the next, it's exciting. And we
confuse that anxiety for chemistry, and we confuse that for
butterflies when actually it's like, my body literally is uncomfortable

(33:51):
because I don't know if they're interested or not. And
it sounds like your boyfriend. He didn't try too hard,
he wasn't coming on too strong, he wasn't a tool.
He was just like, I'm into you, and this is
how I will show up. And I think consistency ties
back to the theme of today's conversation, which is effort,
because it's effort to remember it to text onone, it's
effort to say, hey, how was that meeting, it's effort to, like,

(34:12):
even when you're on a boys trip, to stell text
and keep in touch. And so I think you have
like half the population sort of saying like women have
realistic expectations that they want all these things and then
the other half is just like, can you be consistent please? Yeah,
So I love that story.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Well, I also think that I relate to what you
said about I almost had to retrain my brain to
be like, hmm, this is how it's supposed to be.
I'm so used to this hot cold, not sure if
they're into me that I did confuse that for excitement,
and I confused it for the spark and for chemistry.
And I learned along the way that like those things,

(34:47):
actually they're not sustainable and they're not the building blocks
of an actual good relationship. So there really was some
in a work within myself that I had to do
to retrain myself away from expecting that kind of hot
cold nature.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
I think mine was more like internal. Mine was more
I got to a point where I valued myself more.
I think that that was a different turning point. I
just don't think I thought I was worthy of it,
and it was my own doing in my twenties, and
you get stuck into the mindset that I said earlier,
where it's like, well that's just who I am. You know,
I'm the personnel wants to date, and you make a
joke of it, and then all of a sudden, it

(35:22):
becomes who you are. And I think as soon as
I started saying setting my non negotiables and my boundaries
for what I expect, which wasn't a lot. And it
goes back to exactly what you just said, keishe it
was just somebody doing the right things and being there.
It's not like it's not like my expectations were sky high.
They absolutely weren't. But the second that I knew what
I bring to the table and what I was looking for,

(35:45):
it became so much easier to date because there was
no confusion. You would date somebody and you would be like, oh, okay,
you're actually not giving me anything that I need. You're
canceling all the time, you're leaving me on red your
whatever it is. And the second that you know and
you've written it down, you've got you know, negossias, you've
got your boundaries, you got what you're looking for, your
intentions are clear. That is when it changed for me.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
I totally agree with that, And the reason why I
find it so refreshing is because oftentimes when I'll ask
people like, you know, why are you singler? What's going
on dating? They're like, there's just no good guys out there,
like there's no one to date. I must I should move.
I'm in the wrong city for dating. And I feel
like what you said, Britt is really about this idea
that like you were the one who had to change,
and once you changed, you attracted different people, you got

(36:28):
into different types of relationships. I'm sure you saw red
flags and you ran away from them in a way
you wouldn't have otherwise. And so it sounds like a
lot of the internal work for you is what made
the difference. It wasn't like suddenly there was all these
you know, different type of guys that you had never met.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
It's so true. I was a mouth to a flame,
like a red flag. That was what that was. And
it was because that would then feedback into who I
knew I was. I was a person where it never
worked out. So when the fucking flag was flying, I
was like, yes, I'll do it, because then I'm like, oh,
woe is me? And now the one bites the duce.

Speaker 6 (36:58):
Of course, it bites the dots like he was he's
a married sociopath in prison in America, Like you know,
he wasn't. But I'm like on that, yeah, I'm like
nothing works out and that's what I see that meme
and it's like, oh, I saw the red flags, but
I thought it was a carnival that was so fun.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
It was like, I just thought it was something else.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
So logan when it comes to people who are in
those phases of feeling really burnt out, and like we
spoke about at the start of the episode, the people
who were starting to feel hopeless, what actual like steps.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Do you recommend?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Do you recommend for them to take a break from dating,
do you recommend for them to change up the way
they're going about meeting people?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Like?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
What can they actually do?

Speaker 5 (37:40):
I've been thinking about this a lot because I think
burnout is real. I think for people you know, who
have been on the apps and then met someone and
then deleted it and then come back again, Like I
do think that that cycle can feel really hard and
disheartening for people, so you just want to acknowledge, Like,
I think burnout is very real. I definitely think that
people can and should take breaks. I remember I had

(38:00):
this client once where she showed up to her sessions
and every time she was just so negative, like everything's
the worst, everything sucks, It's not going to work. Out,
and I was like, I'm going to have to assume
that you're bringing this energy that you're bringing to me
to your dates, and people are going to run in
the other direction.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
And so I think if.

Speaker 5 (38:18):
You're feeling burnout, then you're going to give off negative energy.
People are not going to be abs attracted to you.
And also you're not going to be able to see
opportunity where there is some, because if you're only looking
for the negatives, you won't spot the positives.

Speaker 4 (38:30):
The other thing I.

Speaker 5 (38:31):
Would say, and I really believe that people need more hope,
and so I think hearing about great relationships, reading a
book about a great couple, Hearing people talk honestly about
their relationships, having an older couple that's your relationship role model.
Hearing about people that did meet in twenty twenty five
and like have found love recently, I think that those

(38:52):
really help with burnout, because I think part of burnout
is a hopelessness it will never work out for me.
Dating apps have stopped working. I think that there are
real feels that people have, but like, I have a
friend this week that got engaged to a guy that
she met on hinge in the last eighteen months and
so I really feel like it's still working. People are
still meeting and we need to spread those stories.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
What do you think about having a soulmate? Like, do
you think that there's so many people suited to us
for different seasons or do you think there is just
this one person, because I think a lot of people
get stuck in looking for this one all consuming bail
and indul romantic meet cute relationship.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
Yeah, so I fall hard into the no soulmate category.
I'm very romantic, Like I've dedicated my life to helping
people find love. I'm obsessed with my husband, as you
said that you are, like, I love love, but I
think part of that is also being practical and being
like I happen to live in the United States and
was born this year, I went to this college, and like,

(39:54):
I met this person at this stage of life, but
like I could have met someone.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Else and also had a great life.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
Like I, I think that we could have so many
beautiful love stories with so many different people. And then
if you put too much pressure on the soulmate, you
actually make it harder for yourself. So I have this
quiz on my website, and it divides people into three
types of daters, and one of the types of daters
is the romanticizer, and they basically have this exact thing.
They're like, they're waiting for the soulmate. I'll know when

(40:20):
I see it. We have to meet in a romantic way,
and it's cute and it's you know, romantic, But it
also can hold people back because the minute that someone
doesn't match what they thought their husband was going to
look like, or they hit an inevitable rough spot and
they think, oh, well, if it were my soulmate, we
wouldn't fight about that, it actually can make it harder
for them, And so I really encourage people to make

(40:41):
this switch from the soulmate mindset to what we call
the work and out mindset, where you really know, like,
of course, relationships are work. Things worth doing require work,
and that if you hit an inevitable rough spot, it's
about learning to work through it together, not giving up
and saying, well, that must not be my soulmate.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
I think that our exposure to the ability to compare
our relationships and how much that has increased with social
media and stuff, has affected the way that people have
expectations of what a relationship is going to bring them
and do you think that. I mean, in some aspects
we're saying like we need to raise the bar and
women need to increase their expectations of what they want

(41:20):
from someone, But is there an element of like, are
there a type of people who actually could maybe decrease
those expectations because they could be living a little bit
in this comparison game.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
That's not quite real, that's based off of social media.

Speaker 5 (41:34):
Yeah, so my views on this have changed over the
past few years. So if you had asked me this
five years ago, I think I would have said Instagram
is this overly filtered place where everyone is only showing
the highlights of their life and you see the perfect
engagement and walking by the sunset, and it's just telling
us that, like, everyone's life is perfect except for ours.
But I actually feel like on TikTok, and I guess

(41:56):
on Instagram too, there's a lot of dat retainment where
it's people being like, guys got back from the worst
date ever and you'll never believe it, And they're getting
a lot of social clout for these like horror stories,
and I think that is actually having an impact on people,
where like they are only hearing bad stories about dating
because people don't go viral for being like he was
so thoughtful and I mentioned on my profile that I've

(42:17):
been to Turkey and he brought me this Turkish delight.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Like, those stories don't go viral.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
The viral stories are like the bad ones. And so
I feel like five years ago it was about compare
and despair. Everyone's relationship is perfect except for me, And
now I think it's kind of like, is anyone finding love?
Because all the stories I hear about with dating are
so negative.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
It's interesting we had just one person, but we had
someone writing that exact thing to us not that long
ago on the podcast for the exact reason, right. We
tell a lot of funny, messed up stories from people
that have written in the dating stories or with friends
stories or whatever. We also talked about our success stories.
I got married off a dating app, cases with someone
from a dating app, My sister got married off a

(42:58):
dating up.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, I'm fly the hinge flag logan where.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
We fly the happy flag.

Speaker 5 (43:03):
We love it, but we fly the happy flag carnival.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
It is what you make it. But no, we do
fly these like success stories, but they're I don't want
to say they're boring, but it's exactly what you just said.
It's not as entertaining. People don't want to always hear
about it. So there was someone that wrote in and saying, hey,
like love the podcast. You guys are great, funny whatever,
love the horror dating story stories, but hey, sometimes it's
too much for us that are dating and we're in

(43:29):
it because it makes us feel like there's no happy
ending out there and everyone's fucked and every dating story
and every guy and whatever. And I did have to
think about that for a second. And we're definitely not
going to change our content, but I understand how when
it feels like everywhere you're looking is all these horror stories,
that it does make you think, well, what chance do
I have.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
There's a time and a place for both.

Speaker 5 (43:48):
Like people like this idea of you're in the trenches
with me, like you went on a horrible date.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
That makes me feel bad about my bad date.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
But then I think they also need to believe like
things can change, there are good people out there, like
there is life at the end of the tunnel, And
like for the person who wrote that, I might be like,
maybe you should take a break from the podcast, Like
I think that that's okay. It's like different media serves
us at different times. But I do try to think
about the content that I'm consuming, Like I have been

(44:14):
spending a lot of time on Reddit lately, and if
you spend a lot of time in a community, even
if you.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
Don't follow it, it will show you more and more
of that.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
And so like when I'm reading all these like petty
Revenge and malicious Compliance and like all these kind of
like snarky subreddits, like I'm into them, but then I'm
also like, what is the energy that this is giving me?

Speaker 4 (44:32):
And so I think that people.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Should be aware of who are you following on Instagram,
who are you following on TikTok, what are the podcasts
that you listen to, and just really thinking about like
what do I need right now? And so I think
for sometimes people just want to feel like misery loves company,
and other times I think they really need hope, and
hopefully your podcast is you know, giving them that combination
of booth.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
I also think that like the algorithm overlords, like you said,
if you start engaging with dating horror story content, it
will give view that until the cows come home, and
you probably actually have to actively search other things in
order to almost like train your algorithm to shift so
that it's not the only type of content that they
are serving to you. And logan that was like one

(45:14):
of the last things that I wanted to ask you
about is how you forecast the world of AI changing
the dating landscape, Like, how is it going to impact
the algorithms of the people that you might see on
dating apps or maybe the people that you will match with.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
So, first of all, when it comes to AI, I
will just say, like, I think we are really early days.
I think we are all still figuring out what this
is going to look like. Like I do not think
that we necessarily know what life, what work, what love
will look like in five years. I can speak to
what Hench has done. So Hinde's whole philosophy on this
is that Hendran's to use AI to bring you closer

(45:55):
to another person, not to get between you and the person,
and so it should never take the.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Place of you communicating or.

Speaker 5 (46:01):
You sharing who you are, are you showing what you
look like? It's like, could AI actually make that process easier?
And so the first thing that we've really done is
earlier this year, we launched this product called It's a
feature called prompt feedback, And so basically it looks at
what you write on your profile and I'll say something like,
you know, be more specific, or this one's great, and
it really encourages you to dig in. It doesn't tell

(46:22):
you what to say. And so for example, let's say
you say, like, on a Sunday, I love to relax
and watch TV. It might say like, tell us more,
like what type of TV?

Speaker 4 (46:31):
But it won't say you should.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
Mention these shows? Yeah, And so I think it's like
a dating coach in your pocket, like as if I
could help everyone with their profile being like that's not
specific enough, go deeper. But it's not taking the place
of human expression and individuality.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
I mean talking of like TV habits and whatnot. I
think that we we can say a lot of different
trends happen with the seasons, like and we're obviously in
the opposite sayson to what you guys are in. But
do you see specific patterns of people either wanting to
get into or out of relationships that are like correlated
with the time of the year that it is.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
So I'll tell you some of the things that we
find in our research at HINGE. So one thing is
that over the summer, there is a lot of flirtatious energy.
You know, maybe people are wearing shorter dresses, they're going
to outside bars, they are excited about meeting people. But
at the same time, there's a lot of summer travel,
so I think sometimes people can be flakier during the summer. Okay,
then we have this season called cuffing season, which is

(47:28):
before it gets cold to a pre winter like October period.
People are like, I want to find someone to buckle
down with and really have this relationship for the winter
when maybe they don't feel like putting on a bunch
of layers, especially in places like New York and going out.
And then I find that there's a huge burst of
energy around New Year's and we call this dating Sunday.

(47:49):
It's usually the most popular day of the year for
people to download and use a dating app. And that's
because there's this whole New Year, New Ue energy. People
are thinking about what do I want in the next year,
what's the energy I want to bring in And so
those are some of the seasonal changes that we see.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
I mean, I guess that that's quite relevant for us
at this time of the year because we're going into
Christmas and into summer, but also into news.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
People don't want relationships in the summer. They want to
be going around, like you said, they want.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
To be going I wanted it whenever.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
No, I know, but people are more likely exactly what
what Logan just said. It's like you're going on a trip.
You know, in three weeks you went on a trip
to Thailand. So people are like, oh, I don't want
to get serious with this person. I've been talking to
you because I want to be available to go in
But I just think, do you know what, Let's not
think about the trends. Let's just think about what you
want to do, putting your intentions out there and just
going after what you want, because you will meet the

(48:40):
person that is in the same point as you are.
You will meet with someone that's like, oh my god,
I'm also looking for a relationship.

Speaker 5 (48:46):
I really feel like the right time to meet someone
is when you're ready and open to invite someone into
your life, when you know who you are and what
you want, when you can spot the green flags and
so yes, those are some high level macro trends, but
I really feel like any day is the right rate
to find a relationship.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Logan, We'll see you again for the fifth episode soon.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
At some point, I know, I know somebody's sent me
to Australia.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
I love to have you here in person. That would
be amazing.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
And for anyone who would like to read through the
rest of Hinge's shalant dating report, we will haven't linked
to that in our show notes, as well as links
to everything to do with Logan, to her website, her instagram,
her book, all of the things.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
We'll still pop the past episode links in as well,
and you guys want to go back and listen to those.
But thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 5 (49:30):
Yes, it's great to see you and I'm excited to
see you again for our next one.