June 8, 2025 • 54 mins
You might know Poh Ling Yeow as an artist, a chef and a regular fixture on television ever since she was first introduced to Australia on MasterChef. But that’s just the public side of Poh.
The version you see is only part of her truth; behind it lies a layered, often painful journey.
In this conversation Poh opens up about her years spent in the church before walking away from it, which left her untangling years of belief and identity.
She shares the profound grief she has experienced with the loss of her mother, and as well as the heartbreak of two marriage breakdowns and how those moments led to loneliness, questioning and rebuilding.
But through it all, she’s discovered something quite extraordinary: an ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess, and humour in the most unexpected places.
This is a conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, and what it means to truly move on and start over.
You can watch Poh on this season of MasterChef on Network 10 and you can follow her here:
https://www.instagram.com/pohlingyeow/?hl=en
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CREDITS:
Guests: Poh Ling Yeow
Host: Kate Langbroek
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I was kind of the one that made the first move.
I was just painting one day in front of the
and I was standing in front of the easel and
it just came to me clear as a bell.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It was like, you need to do.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It right now. And I literally legged it to the
birth death marriages and got a divorce kid and then
served it to him. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm Kate Lanebrook and welcome to No Filter. I don't
think you could find anyone in Australia who doesn't absolutely
adore Poling. Now, even if people don't know, she's got
three names, and her name isn't just Poe. I mean
those are my words, not hers, And honestly, I think
it made her a little bit uncomfortable when I said
(01:11):
it to her face, but it's true. There's something about Poe.
She's one of those rare people who bring sunshine into
any room she walks into. Now you might know her
as an artist, a chef, a TV presenter. She wears
many hats, but that's just the public side of Poe.
(01:34):
Because behind the scenes. Her story is rich and deep
and at times painful. She spent years in the church
before walking away from it, which left her untangling years
of belief and identity. She's navigated profound grief, not just
in the traditional sense of loss, but also through the
(01:54):
heartbreak of two major relationship breakdowns. In this conversation, Poe
opens up about all of it, about the loneliness, the questioning,
the rebuilding. She says she's often felt like an alien
trying to work out where she fits. But through it all,
(02:15):
she's discovered something quite extraordinary, and she shares it an
ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess,
and humor in the most unexpected places. This is a
conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, CONGI, and what it means
(02:37):
to start over again and again. But we started with
a bit of a laugh as I needed Poe's help
on a very urgent problem I had. I need you
in a professional capacity as well as your divine personal self.
So after this, by the time people hear this, you
(02:57):
will have been on the Sampang show. Yes, you will
have been pushed into a Christmas tree, which is the
ultimate honor. On that show.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's amazing that that was on my list.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, and who even knew that that was a thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I did the show last night and made the mistake
of having dinner with them after the show. Yes, I'm
very shabby. I'm wearing the same book. Oh so, Oh
my gosh, you're hilarious. Yes, it's terrible. It comes.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Did you do Walk of Shame to work today?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah? I did exactly, and I thought I'll poell understand.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I totally understand. I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
What would you make someone who's hungover?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh congie? Oh the rice poy because it's got ginger,
it's you know, it's like very warming and slurpy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh so not a fried thing?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
No, oh yeah, I would do conji. And then you
have all the pickles and stuff like that with it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Really okay because I am a bit pickled, are you?
So you don't need any more pickles? And you know
the other thing, because people were talking us, in fact,
everyone that I've mentioned that I'm going to be talking
to you, yeaes seed. Everyone's like, this will not come
as a surprise to you. Oh my god, I love Poe.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
It's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It's so lovely. But I need to know who hates Poe, who.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Hates po people out there? I'm sure, But do you
know what's really interesting? I think if you because on
my socials they don't really show up. Now that I've
now that I've said this, they will. And the more
commercial you become, the more invite of course. So when
I was at the ABC, I had a lot of
Nan haters Nan. Yeah, like on the ABC that stupid
(04:51):
girl and her fake last that kind of thing. And
also I saw that in that little cut she put
the salt in and the salt still on the table.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Oh I can't you know that kind of thing? Well
that not really.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You know, you say proper travel through life?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, deeply and resoundingly loved, which is very unusual from
someone who occupies a public space.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That makes me feel so uncomfortable, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But it is quite an extraordinary thing. No one ever
goes op pos. She's very polarized.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It's just not a phrase that exists, is it.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Look, whenever I say this, I feel very self conscious
because it sounds like I'm giving myself a pat on
the back, But I'm not. I feel so loved by
the Australian public generally and I'm so grateful for it,
and I want to acknowledge it because I feel so.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Fortunate to have that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And I don't know why, but there are lots of
people that are annoyed by me. They pop up once
in a while, not not lots a few.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
People out there. I think maybe with your maybe with
your like market benchure, maybe with jam face, your cooking business,
there'd be some other people that are like I was
making those biscuits before Poe or some kind of like
little yeah, little yeah or something yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And I've had people get really mad at me because
I couldn't come out and like, you know, sign a
napkin when I was in the middle of running the bakery.
I don't realize that they're not watching Telly. I'm actually
an accounted for body at work, do.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, So and then they're like, you know, she snubbed me,
And I was like, I didn't snub you. I just
was like in the middle of serving like thirty customers.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, because this is a very interesting thing about you
as well. So you're an artist. I think people know that.
I think so yeah, before you started like cooking, yes, yeah, yeah,
you have your own business. I do you live in Adelaide, Yes,
and your business is run by you? Yes, it is.
(07:07):
So you don't have a commercial kitchen where you've got minions. No. No.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
So I tried to have a cafe and I had
it for about five years. I'm really bad with time.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh yeah, so am I? Yeah? I think I had
it for about five yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that's
what I was on.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
The tax department will leave you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, I'm more good there.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So I had I had the farmer's market first, right,
because I wanted to just dip my toe into it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And then and then.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It went really well. So we opened a cafe and
I found it. It was great for three years, but
I literally had to put my life on hold. It
felt like I had birth like quads overnight because I
and I was quite aware of this that I have
no skills in managing people and training as well. It's
(07:55):
so difficult, and because I've spent most of my life
working solo as an artist, it's always about just I
hand me expressing my love of a thing that I
love to do. And when it turned into that, I
hated it and I thought I had to go back
to the beginning. So I got rid of the cafe
and just went back to the farm, which I'd had
(08:15):
the whole time.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
When you say we, who was we? Also?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So me my and my two business partners, which is
my ex and.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
My hang on.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Which this is the other thing that people may may
know about you.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so you you were married, Yes, you were married
to Matt. Right, and you were married to Matt because
you seem to have these ten year cycles in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, So Matt I was
with for ten years and then when John I was
twelve years Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Right, so John I was your second husband and Matt
your first husband. You met while you were a mormal, Yeah,
which I find extraordinary because I was raised to Jehovah's
witness And you know, people always get those religions mixed up.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They do because they prosely both.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah. Run so which yeah? Door knock, yeah, door knock? Yeah?
Did you do that?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I did do it did a month in my home town.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, you were a little bad or sister yow and
you so you would knock on people's doors? And is
that the Church of Latter day Saints? It is?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So you would say you knock on the door.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Hello, I'm sister, I'm from the Church of that Day Saints.
Would you have a moment so that we could give
you a message? Right? And if they had a moment,
what would the message be, Well, we'd go in, we'd
present the Book of Mormons. So much it was like
just dissipated. I had a terrible memory, and which.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I think is a blessing, by the way, I think
so too. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I used to think that I was really resilient because
there's been a few things in my life that some
people would consider to be quite traumatic, but I have
I don't. I kind of just slip out of them
pretty pretty easily. And I used to think it's because
I was resilient, but I actually think.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You can't remember it. But you know, it's an interesting
thing about humans because we have a capacity to remember
the good things. That's why people have more than one child.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, And also when you've broken up with someone, you
often find yourself reminiscing just the good times.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes, not the that's right. Yeah, but when you talk
about traumatic things, is one of them the breakup with
your first husband?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, both breakups, and then like like mum's passing, you know,
I was away for that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Which was just shit. Were you overseas it was?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
What part of your life were you in when when
this happened. Where were you at? I was in a
really good place.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
And I was in I was I was actually when
she got ill. Because mom and I have always had
this slightly spiky relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And let me grapple with the concept of the daughter
having a spine exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's the same thing, isn't it. It's female female, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, there's just always fe in the head. Oh my god, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah. And also because you were raised as well by
your auntie Kim, who you were very close to.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, so there was that tension between.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Your mum and yeah little.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Bit yeah yeah, not her sister, her auntie, her aunt Yeah,
so you're great auntie, yeah, my great auntie right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So there's always been these little tensions and it just
is the way it is. And before she passed away,
she actually said to me, you know, I know, whenever
there's these rifts in the house with all the women,
you because her and Auntie just squabbled NonStop, and she says,
you know, you need to think about the fact that
(12:06):
she came to live with us when your brother was born,
shortly after your brother was born, So she's kind of
been around our whole lives. Dad and I have never
really been on our own.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And so she came out from Malaysia with you, Yes
she did, which is an amazing uprooting. Is she devoted
her life to you, yeah, and your family, yeah, your brother. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
She never had her own life. She never dated, never
had any relationships. She kind of just devoted herself to
my family. And she was adopted, and so she was
always kind of this outcast in the family in a way.
And I think she just found something.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
With us that she really loved.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
She was only supposed to come and help mum look
after my brother for a little while, but she ended
up never leaving because she loved it so much. Yeah,
being with us, and I think.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
She's your mom loved that she did. I don't think she.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Knows any better because imagine having being young and having
like an older woman come and help you. It would
be divided, yeah, which is what it is back in
the day, right, Like it's quite common for grandparents extended family.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, Yeah, And it's the other way, because you know,
I was reading this thing about how to raise independent
children recently and it's it's it's so hard. Now, that's
why there's just so many issues with the youth, because
the resources are half. So many single parents, yes, you know,
(13:40):
and it's across all so socioeconomic.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And even if it's not single parents. I remember reading
once the nuclear family is two people doing the work
of the tribe. That's right. Why did I think of
that when I had four children and my husband and
I would sometimes look like it is it's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(14:05):
so you had this and particularly in Asian families. Well two.
So your auntie came without that familial lineage, yes, because
she was adopted. Yeah, yeah, so she was looking for
her place, I think so.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I mean, she was adopted as a baby, so she's
very loved by all the extended family. But there was
something about our situation that I think gave her purpose
and she really loved. Yeah, I think looking after my
brother and myself and me.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And so when you were overseas, your mom said to
you before you went away.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yes, she said go and I checked in with her.
But I wish I hadn't. I wish I had just
used my intuition, and the way I had to unpack
it was to understand that I'm a bit of a
risk taker and I just took a really bad risk.
(15:05):
And I think if I had my way again, I
probably would have done the same thing, because it's my
nature to do that. Yes, And that's how I've been
able to get over it. Yes, it's just to accept
that that crap decision was probably always going to be
that crap decision? Do you know what I'm saying? Because
of my nature?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But how important do you think?
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
This is always a thing in grief and loss and
farewelling someone who's you know, one of the only two
trees in your orchard? Yeah a parents, Yeah you've still
have got three trees. Would it have been more important
for her for you to be there or more important
for you to be there?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I think both. I think she would have loved it
if I was there. But it's interesting when I do
feel there is I definitely feel like people choose to go. Yes, Yeah,
I go because she waited till I was in a
position where I shouldn't have had any reception. I was
on some weird like hell in this I don't know
(16:10):
where I was.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I don't know where you were.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I was, I I was Where were you? I was
in Austria or like sound of music ish, No, No,
I wasn't in Austria. Where was I Vienna? I think
I was in Vienna? Yeah, Schnitzel, Yeah yeah, And so
Fay you said that, because that actually came to my
(16:34):
mind when I was trying to figure out I was anyway,
And so you know how funny it is like with
certain people they would know exactly the time, the place,
but I'm just I don't care anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
It's it's a feeling for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And so I I had just gotten a text from
my god sister, Mum's goddaughter and she said, hey, I
think you should FaceTime your mom now, and I was
like okay. So I was like okay, good luck to
me and managed to talk and everyone was around her
at that point, and I was like, hi, Mom, and
I already made a decision. I said, hey, I'm going
(17:12):
to come home really really soon. And I really met
the next day, but I didn't want to sort of
stir her up too much.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
She looked really really weak.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And she said no, no, no, she goes you just stay
and finish your thing. And I could feel she really
meant it, and I think it's because she knew she
wasn't going to be able to hang on for that long.
But pretty much after she spoke to me, like hours later,
she passed away, like maybe eight hours later, eight or
ten hours.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Like were you on the plane then or no?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I was asleep, so I'd gone to bed, and the
next day I was, yeah, I was about to come home,
but I yeah, then it was just like speedy get
on the first plane.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And where were you in relation to your personal relationships
at that time? Single? Sproken up with Johno?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And I was just, yeah, I've been in a really
good place for like years now.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Very single, Yeah, very single, A very single, very single
and not dating? You're not dating and.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Now not dating? No, I don't know how, Kate, No,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I don't know. I imagine, imagine if he.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Was single right now, how would you do it? I
literally how to do it? Like I don't have any solutions.
To keep asking people and they're like, you know, Raya whatever,
Like no, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Just but how did you meet? Like John O? So
he was a.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Runner on Master Chef last season one was a member.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
When you said that was two thousand and nine nine, ye,
where you sprang onto our greens and obviously you'd caught
his eye.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, we caught each other's eyes.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And at what point did you realize that was going
to be.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think it was he had kind of sort of
like thirty kind of personality, and I was like, Oh,
it's all the girls.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
He's doing it to all the girls.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But then I kind of realized there was definitely some
kind of proper energy there. And it was interesting because
it became a very traditional kind of old fashioned courtship
because we're not allowed to frat nines with us with
the crew, no, Hjara really onto that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, good old day.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah yeah yeah, and there ever was such a thing.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, And so it was just like sort of reduced
to little cute looks across the yard. And he used
to travel us back and from the house to the
studio and so we'd sort of just have a little
look in the rearview vision mirror that was it, and
then say hi to each other, hello and goodbye. So
it's very cute, yeah, very bronze sisters. Oh my god,
(19:47):
it's so he just saw.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A glimpse of your stocking dangle.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And there is That's not all of my conversation with Poe.
Coming up after the break, we talk about the first
ever season of Mastershif, the very definitive decision for Poe
to leave her husband, her first husband, and Poe reveals
(20:15):
a sneaky intensity in her personality. What Don't Go Anywhere?
That was a remarkable season. Yeah, it wasn't that season one,
Yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was the thing like we all went into it
just not knowing what any reality TV wasn't even really
a big thing then, and so the word amongst the
crew was just like this is mad, like to do
a reality TV cooking show in Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
It's just such a weird idea.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then as the show went on again through whispers
of the because we were on proper lockdown in season
for like the first few years, I think we were
all on proper lockdowns, like because it was you had
time ten minute two time to ten minute phone calls
a week or not prison, its proper prison.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah yeah, And like how long did the shooting of
the series take?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Five months?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, so it went because I went all the way
to the end.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You sure did, I sure did. And then how was
that for your family?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
They they loved it. They had no idea, obviously, no
one knew what it was going to be, but it
was such a It was such an amazing experience for me,
and I see it all the time now as a judge,
where people who have felt disconnected to their families find
(21:39):
connection when they come on the show because it's something
for the whole family to rally behind and they just.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Find a way to.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, they just find that solidarity again, which is so nice.
And I didn't. It wasn't like my family was broken
up or anything. But I think my parents had always
been a bit worried about me because I've lived such
an unorthodox path.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, and they were very orthodox in their desires for you.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
No, I give them a lot of credit for that.
As migrant parents, they weren't sort of like you have
to be a doctor or an accountant or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
But they came to Australia because they wanted, yes for you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh my god, Kate, I was such a dunce student,
like I just kind of you want yeah, Yeah, I
was a little daydreamer, So I was terrible academically, which
is all it's about. When you're in an Asian country.
There's very little sort of focus on social or sport
or any kind of like social development activities. It's more
(22:42):
just all about academia. And I just failed, so dismally.
I was at the back, cutting up my graph paper
into noodles and scratching coins and making a little hawk
a store in the back, pencils to season at mass.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Always in my own little world.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So they're like, Okay, I think this is going to
be a but interesting food interesting, don't forget the season
because we had a lot of street store So I
used to love that was like a favorite thing of
mine to watch all the street vendors cook.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And so yeah, I would just do that.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And so yeah, my parents, my parents, my mum, I
think mainly recognize that I had a dubious academic future there.
And her brothers were already living in Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
They were borders. Yep, they were borders.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
They finished school, studied, you know, had really you know,
went to university there, married there, so they were settled.
And back then it was quite easy to sponsor a
relative over. It's much harder now. So yeah, we came
over to infrastructure family.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And so you were like eight or nine?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Was nine?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I turned nine on the plane. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So every time it's my birthdate, it's also the anniversary
of how long we've been in Estra.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And then I think this is so interesting because okay,
twofold one migrant families who either have two kind of responses,
because my parents were migrants as well, that either they
run to Australia yep, open arms and like land of opportunity,
or they enclave themselves. Yes, your parents sound like they
(24:28):
were like, this is the land of opportunity, Land of opportunity,
for sure. And you felt that even as a nine
year old.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Oh my god, yes, yes, I remember. I felt like
my childhood had a very dark energy to it. I
felt very out of place. It's really weird, Like it's
so distinct to me. It's that feeling thing again right
where I just felt always like an alien, like I'd
(24:54):
been beamed in from somewhere else, right, like that you
didn't quite belong to you. No, No, I didn't understand
my world. Like when I went to school, everything was
just mumbo jumbo, and I remember just thinking I feel odd,
like I feel all the time, and it's how got
beamed in. And then as soon as my mum said
to me we're moving to Australia, it was like lightning
(25:17):
struck my head. I was like, oh my god, everything's
gonna make sense, everythings gonna be fine. Like it was
like a no. I always describe it as a knowing, right,
not an inkling, but like I knew. And then when
we landed, and I'm sorry if you've read or heard this,
but I always talk about how when we were just
traveling back to my uncle's house, I remember just I
(25:39):
felt like Alice in Wonderland. I remember even finding all
the street signs really beautiful, right. I was just enamored
with Australia immediately, in giness, the sparsness, those wide Adelaide roads, yeah,
compared to where you'd come from, which I imagine had
some density and yeah yeah, and that sort of. I
(26:01):
used to always find the humidity really.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oppressive.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oppressive, yeah, And I remember just loving like the dry
heat and.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, so weird.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And right away, I I like, I was fine at school,
I performed really well. And did you speak English?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I did? Right, So your family spoke English? Yeah, you're right. Yeah,
So that would have made it easy. Yeah, heaps easier, Yeah,
heaps easy. But then often people like to focus on
their difference, like when they arrived, did you have a
sensation that you were not like the other ones? Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I was incredibly shy, so I remember having Yeah, even
though I felt at home in Australia, still had that feeling,
but not in a way that felt dark. It was
like it was like I don't know how to explain it,
because all these kids just rallied around me and protected me.
(27:07):
It was so beautiful, like my experience coming to Australia
was beautiful. It was like textbook perfect. But I would
look at them they were my friends, but I would
look at them in all like I can never I
will never be able to be like you. Because Pip,
who was like sort of I guess, the leader of
the gang that I was in, she would ride to
(27:29):
school every morning, and I remember thinking that was amazing
because I could ride a.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Bike and just would you have been allowed to ride
a bike?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Probably not? No, not to school, no no. And I
remember thinking wow, for her to have that kind of
independence at her age was just mind blowing to me.
And then just to see like I used to find
things that were very ordinary, Like I would find a
way to think I could never be that cool. Like
(27:59):
she would open her lunch box and it was like
one of those refrigerated ones ylation, and I'd be like, oh,
that'd be cool enough to have a lunch box that
has I have resolation? What did you take it with
munch and never be cool enough to have a vegemite
sandwich and barbecue shapes and sultanas. It's just weird because
(28:20):
I had fried rice and that was just like oh my.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
God, yeah yeah yeah, and a smell yeah, and it
was like yeah under.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
The foil and eat things with a spoon. I was like,
bloody hell, I just want a sandwich. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
But at some point that became your strength. Yeah, it
took me a while. Well it does take a while.
But at what point did you Yeah, when were you
when you started to go, oh, these things that you
know to be an outlier or an observer in youth,
(28:55):
I think stands you in good stead as an adult. Okay,
sometimes so late, I would say.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
When I was maybe nineteen or twenty, yeah, way past school,
and I think maybe going to Canada, I had a
lot to do.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh and what was the calling in Canada?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So I was in Utah, right, oh, China to the
Mormon find a husband, no joke, thinking maybe I might
find a husband.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
When did you become a Mormon?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Then when I was sixteen? No, fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, yeah,
around then.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
What religion were your parents?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
We were sort of cultural Buddhists. I say culture Buddhist,
as in they didn't go to the temple. Auntie is
very staunch Buddhist, so I've been raised with that around
all the time. But also I find Chinese Malaysians are
quite sort of superstitious, so they'll you know, have hedged
their bets and have like.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
A myriad of gods at their.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah yees, covering their bases.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So like sure, good academic, right, you know, performance for
wealth and prosperity, all that kind of stuff, But it's
more for that rather and it's like a fear rather
than a philosophy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You know me, so transactional, yeah yeah, yeah, bit of that.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And so that's how I got raised. So I wouldn't
say we were philosophically entrenched in like the teachings of Buddha,
but we were Buddhist most And.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Then how did them how did the Mormons find you?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So we got into some financial issues because my parents
had some businesses.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And we were in the doll drums and they came knocking.
Oh and who answered the door Me and mum and
invited the mean yeah wow yeah to clean cut, cute boys. Yeah.
Why they was American because they're doing their missionary service.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, so Australias would go somewhere else as well. You
don't always you can, you sometimes get called within your country,
but you just it literally gets pulled out of a hat.
Well through prayer and inspiration. Right, Yeah, that's the hat. Yeah,
that's the hat, like the sorting hat. That's the soft hat.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And so then you went started going to the church. Yes,
full on, it was full on. We commrely.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
We got baptized and that was like that was us
because we lost a lot of family support during that time,
and so the church was this amazing social structure that
we got kind of helly dropped.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Into, right, and.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
People were really kind to us.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
They were really kind to us. Yeah, I'll never forget
that power of the church. You know when people like
to say, now religion is responsible for everything bad, all
the wars and whatever. I think it negates to a
certain extent, the sense of community that can come from
a church.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It's so weird religion.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Like the more I stand back now and I'm more
relaxed about it because I'm not fighting it because I'm
not in one, the more reasonable I am about it
in my head, and I think with a bit of
age as well, like you just everything just tends to
even out a bit more and you're less volatile on
your opinions. Because I feel like religion, even though I
resented it coming out of it and when I was
(32:19):
in it, because what happened was there was a cycle
of I loved it.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
But then what happened was my brain after going to
Canada and hanging out like my first bestie was trans
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It literally blew my world apart, like so forbidden in
the church.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, Like I'd never had that kind of freedom before
because I'd lived at home before I went overseas.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
So to.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Be in an environment where there was just so so
much gray as opposed to black and white, which is religion, right,
I just it completely flipped my brain. And then I
went home and then I met Matt and Matt was
just this incredible, doably intelligent, articulate, little sort of rebel
(33:15):
at church and I and we were really good friends
at first because we found solace, intellectual solace.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
With each other.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So we used to just sit up and like, you know,
do you really reveal things? I watched David Attenborough because
these are dull is that rebellion? Well not really, I'm
just joking, but like, well, we don't believe in duwinn
In theory, so because it's.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Of course it's like the Witnesses creation, yeah, creation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, so all that kind of stuff. Like we just
explored sort of a world outside of the church. And
then ultimately when we got married, we chose to say
to our family, we're not getting married in the temple
where we're just going to get normal guarden righting, and
left the church. But yeah, we had to sort of
(34:03):
really coach each other out of that situation because it's
a lot, you know how it is, it's such a
stronghold on you, but.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Also you have to get to the point where it's
harder to stay, yes than it is to leave.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Absolutely, what was your breaking point and when did you leave?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think I always knew yeah. I always knew growing
up when you were talking about that sensation of not
feeling like you feeling like an alien, yeah, kind of
looking at people. I knew that I wasn't a good
Jehovah's witness and the ironies. I used to pray to
Jehovah to make me a good Jehovah's witness. Yeah, because
I knew that I wasn't. Yeah, he didn't. Wow, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
He didn't ask your prayer.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
No, I didn't, didn't answer my prayer, didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
It's the evidence right there.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, you would think God, not that you think of
it like that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
At that time, I was like, oh okay, now I'm
gonna have to leave.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah. Yeah. But then so you were with Matt and
then this is the bit that is that most people
cannot comprehend that when you broke up with Match, he
ended up with bestie Sarah. Yeah right, yeah, okay, which
is a story that I know you must have. You
must have to tell this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(35:17):
but it is extraordinary. No, no one minds it. But
what we can't believe is that you don't mind it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, I think like the thing that like it's not
as amazing as you'd think. I don't think, because we
were we don't have any children, right number one, That
definitely helps. Yeah, b makes things less, you know, erotic
right there, the tension of that, yeah yeah. And I
think also at that point we were so broken together,
(35:47):
like we were bringing out the worst in each other.
It just was such a dysfunctional relationship and we knew it,
but we didn't know how to get out of it,
because even though we were out of the church, there
was still that sort of familial pressure and everyone thought
we were going in the opposite direction. Everyone's like, oh,
we go have babies, and we're like, we going me
all the way. So I think the reason why I
(36:11):
was kind of the one that made the first move.
I was just painting one day in front of the
and I was standing in front of the easel and
it just came to me clear as a bell. It
was like, you need to do it right now. And
I literally legged it to the birth death marriages and
got a divorced kid and then served it to him.
(36:32):
Oh yeah, with dinner with really badly cooked meat in
three no, no, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Live was a relief for both of you.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
No, Matt was I don't know what it is with guys.
I felt like he was blindsided. I was so bad
in the caves, yes, where men thought we were fine
and we were like, have you not heard I've been
desperately Yeah. Yeah, I think the male propensity to sweep
things under the rug is very high like that that
(37:05):
this threshold is quite high. So anyway, he was still
quite blindsided. But I think when he him and Sarah
started to when they were together, I I was like,
if I choose to be angry with this, it's like
I'm going backwards because I'm the one that initiated this.
(37:28):
I'm the one that is saying I don't want this anymore.
And it was because I felt like I was turning
into something that I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I was such a ball of rage.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Anything could set me off, right, Yeah, angry poet, Oh
my god. I was like throwing chairs and smashing chairs
on the ground. I was psycho. Yeah, and I was like,
this is not good. No, that's not good.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
That is not me. Also hard to imagine. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
People always say that there is.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You seemed and yang.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, you know, there's a very intense site to me personality. Yeah,
because I think when you're creative.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
There has to be I do, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
There has to be an intensity because for you to
you have to be self driven, your you know, your
standards have to you have to create your own bars
of measure. So like I think within that there has
to be I don't know, people call it passion, but
there is so much new neuroticism and I don't know, obsessiveness.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
You know, you have to have those things and you
need a launching place for your art to catapult from. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, And I think running away from something, whether it's
from within, is a great inspiration.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Well do you think, Yeah, it's all about demons and
work avoidance and sometimes the work is yourself, yes, and
that you can find it yeah yeah yeah yeah clean house,
in the in the in the in the streets, yeah yeah,
all that all that.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
After this short break, we talk about our shared love
for the late great Cal Wilson. Plus I surprised Poe
with a message from her Master Chift co star Julie Goodwin,
don't go anywhere. So then you decided to? So yeah,
(39:33):
I was cool with it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Like it was. It was really fast the turnover, because
I think we were already in that friendship stage, even
though we didn't want to deny. So the transition was way.
It sounds so much more dramatic than it really was.
I was still pissed, like I'm not gonna deny that,
but I knew I was gonna. I knew that for
me to hold on to it, it was such a
(39:56):
vivid it was like a picture in my brain. I
was like a picture of me holding onto the garbage.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I was like, no, let the garbage go. Let
the garbage.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
No, I shouldn't call Matte garbage. He's like, probably one
of the most precious people.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
In my life.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
But those feelings are garbage.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
The feelings are garbage, and what I was turning into
was garbage. So I was like I would be going
in reverse. So I was like, I have to find
a way to accept this. And it wasn't even that hard.
I was just like, oh, this is not that hard.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
The once you let it go, yeah, everything kind of
found an ease to it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think it was just I felt like this release
and everything fell into place. It was so but even
the way that we broke up met what Matt was
a real gentleman about it, Like he left me a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He left me zed our dog.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And the funny, the thing that most people find even weirder,
is that he moved across the street, okay, and Sarah
lived around the corner from me, so we lived in
this little triangle and we just sort of it was
funny because we.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Were aware of that it was unusual. It was unusual.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
And he says, is it weird if I move and
across the street, And I actually said I would love
it if you did, because I feel like us completely
separating after living in each other's pockets is so unhealthy.
I actually think it's okay, and we kind of nursed
each other through the breakup.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It is interesting because often you think that he's a
person in a relationship that you've loved and that's meant
more to you than anyone, and then when.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
You say for the relationship, they're just gone.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
How can that be?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
It is? I always had associated it with a level
of passion. Yeah, that if you felt so passionate about
the person, you couldn't be here to see them. So
maybe if you didn't have that passion and you'd outgrown it, yeah,
it makes it easier. But then maybe it's also just
a great philosophy to have. Yeah, I don't know, I
(42:00):
don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It was like as soon it was almost like, as
sooner as I was willing to do the deed, which
was get divorced, my whole body and mind, everything clicked
and it was like okay, it was like really easy.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
And then did everything else open up to you? Because
from that point on you've been stratospheric?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I did that interesting.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, I had an amazing exhibition afterwards. And then Sarah
was the one that said to me, hey, I think
you should apply for this thing.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, I remember it was on my little knocker.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh really knock the brick.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, And I was like, what is this and she goes,
I don't know, it's so weird. Po I don't even
really know, she said. But all I know is these
words are so chilling to me still to this day,
because the choice of words is so unusual. She said,
I don't know really what it is, but I think
you'll be great at it, and I think you're going
(43:05):
to be there till the end.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
She didn't say you're gonna win it.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I was there to here there.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
And then it was the start of everything. The end
was the start of it there and it's how we
know you. Yeah, And the other thing I was going
to say about your migrant parents is the affirmation of
who you were and the acceptance and how the viewers
just went, we love this woman to have for them
(43:34):
to have their fledging little Poe, their little strange cuckoo,
the cuckoo in the knees, to see her being so
widely loved in this land that they had chosen, How
beautiful that is.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Well, I was kind of on my way to talking
about that and I got lost, because we love a
chat we do. That was that it was so impactful
for me. I was thirty five at that point, so
like a grown woman, and it's still it did so
much for me, for my fam, for me relationship with
(44:09):
my family, because they finally went, oh, her wild and
willy ways have panned out. She is going to be okay.
And after that, my parents just left me alone because
they've always been a little bit like what are you
to do with this? You know, you know, just always
nagging you need money about yeah, like you know, getting
more stable. But I'd always managed to hustle, like I'm
(44:31):
not afraid of hard work. So they've always known I
would be okay, but you know, one failed relationship, you know,
and being on my own and you know, being a
bit traditional, They're like, you know, I guess hoping that
I'll find someone else and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Did they want a grand child? Did they put that
pressure on you?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Mum mentioned it quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Dad never.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, I think she really wanted one. But my brother
had four.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
So you made up for everyone, Thank you, brother, I
didn't you? Yes, Yes, someone has to just just for
quiet in your family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So like for me, I think I've all always had
such a sort of creative, sort of chaotic way of
approaching life. It was so affirming for me to be
this in an environment where my brain type excelled because
(45:28):
it compresses the chaos, compresses into clarity. When I'm in
that sort of slightly highly charged panic situation, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah.
So I found that environment really exhilarating, and it made
me realize that all these things that I'd fought about
myself and fought or had kind of resisted about yourself,
(45:56):
Why am I like this? Why am I so disorganized?
Or why am I always this this and this. I
was like, oh wow, there is a place for it,
and it made me understand that it's it's also what
makes me creative. Yeah, so it was. Yeah, it did
so many things for me, like for my self esteem.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Would you like to know what the winner, who was
there till the end with you, thought of you, Julie. Yeah,
have a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
I'm so glad that I got to go through Master
Chef with Poe and be at the end standing next
to her. It's hard to describe, actually what a generous
spirit of a human being she is. I just love
her to death and I have ever since I met her.
She's hilariously funny, she's quirky and unique, she's insanely creative
(46:49):
and just a.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Gorgeous, gorgeous human being. I trust her, I love her.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
She's my friend. And yeah, thank you for asking me
to say a few words about her.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Cheers.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Oh my gosh, jus, but oh my god, Poe's all
those things extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
She's so creative.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Sometimes I think you don't get a sense of how
the world sees you, because of course you're looking at
the world through the prism of your own eyes. That
is how the world sees you and I also we
had a very dear joint friend we do, Cal Wilson. Yeah,
and you met Cal. I love the concept of people
(47:34):
who are open to new friendships throughout their life. You know,
some people go, well, this is my posse and this
is You're not that person.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
No, I'm always adding.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, and you met Cal in the jungle. Yeah, she
was my bunkie and you became such a significant person
in her life.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I don't even actually know think I knew that, which
is so sad in a way, like I never dared
to think that, you know, because I yeah, because of
that thing where she's so established and but I adored her.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
But Cow was the same. Cal was a quirky like
Cal also spend a lot of her time, I think,
feeling like she didn't really fit, and then when she
met you, it was like you rose to meet each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
She was my little piece of solace in the jungle.
As soon as I saw her walking and I was like,
oh my god, this is going to be okay, you know,
because you've done it and you're I.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Haven't done the jungle. Oh you haven't. Oh no, I
haven't done I'd never do the jungle. Look, you might
like to eat testicles, but you know that's not for
me yet.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Okay, so when you get in there, you do you do? Yeah,
you do sort of put your radar out. And like
as soon as I saw her, and you're I was
going to be fine, and yeah, she's I think we
actually got closer outside of it in a way because
you know, you miked up and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
But yeah, what a.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Divine human. And I say, I don't use the word divine.
I'm not just throwing that out there. I say divine
because she's literally godly in her ability to love and
give like infinitely, you know. At her memorial, it was
(49:32):
so funny because I was really I wanted to talk
about how she's such a little pebbler, like, you know,
she'd always give, you know, give you little gifts. And
when she passed away, and she was very crafty, very crafty,
I didn't realize, but at every corner of my house
there's a little cow thing she's given me. And it's
(49:56):
so strange because I'd only known her for a couple
of years at that point, and I was like, how
she managed to infiltrate my entire house even though I've
only seen her like a handful of times essentially, and
we were really close. So at the memorial, I wanted
to talk about that, and I was like, I don't
want to brag that she's given me so many presents.
(50:17):
Everyone about it and I was like, yeah, it's okay.
But then also, oh my god, how did she have
this capacity to love everyone so hard and thoroughly and
make space so much space for people and proper space,
like thoughtful.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Where you know, Like, but I think you have the
same capacity. Okay, thank you. I think you do.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
It's so kind.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
I think that's what people respond to about you is
there's a certain openness. And I think a lot of
people as you travel through life with its slings and
arrows and the pains, and as my mother says, in
a classic mother way, the longer you live, the more
bad things are going to happen to you. It's true,
but it is true, it's true. How do you retain
(51:04):
this openness to the world, the soft under belly.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, yeah, I'm always like that. And I think I've
always been like that since I was a kid, even
though I was shy. I think I've always been very
I think curiosity. That is the main word that comes
to my mind. I'm curious about how I can feel more,
what experiences I can put myself into. I'm very greedy
(51:30):
for because i think a lot of people think that,
you know, I've landed in this position of you know,
working in the media because I'm greedy for attention, but
I'm really not. I mean a lot. I really love
being acknowledged and recognized for things that I think I'm
decent at that I've worked very hard at, you know,
being okay at. But it's more that my greed for
(51:53):
life experiences.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
But how are you not how does that not get
replaced with fear, you know, because a lot of people
are held back by the fear of failure or the
fear of success. Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I love new feelings, like experiencing new kinds of feelings,
Like I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Like even when I was going through.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Grief, and I think it's the age, it hit me
at a really good age. And also being on my
own was great as well, to be able to process
grief on my own because I was just so hyper
aware of all these privileges that I had, Like, wow,
I can process this without a husband and children, So
I can completely immerse myself in this without having to.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Look after any worry of that.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, the luxury of that, and really deep dive into
it and within it. I was still able to find
so many, so much beauty in the sorrow, like I
really could. And I think it's because I'm always searching
for it. I'm not afraid of feeling so like, you know,
(53:00):
fear all the whole gamut. I love it. I love
because it's what it is to be human. So if
you're not going to feel, what the hell are you
going to do? Right?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I think? Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I love you too, and I you know, I've it's
been embarrassing because because we've met properly through another dear
friend of.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
The other Kate, the other Kate Sebrann, and my son
is going out with her daughter.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And I've actually spent some time with who's absolutely gorgeous
and so your son, do you think, yeah, ah, that's interesting, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
But yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I've secretly always wanted to be your friend, So that
was really it was so lovely to meet you that day.
And we had such a fun day, didn't we.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Oh, it was the greatest.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, it was so spontaneous.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
So Poe and I kept up the jibber jabber long
after we had stopped recording. And who is one of
those people that you could talk to anywhere, anytime, for
any amount of time. There's so much that we didn't
get up to. By the way, I believe her to
be much more Buddhist than she thinks she is if
(54:23):
you listen to the tale of what she's learnt about
loss and life. And we didn't get onto her love
of bees, and we didn't get onto how she makes
his amazing jam tarts. I mean, there's so much. Poe
is currently one of the judges on Master Chef. You
can watch the series Monday to Wednesday at seven thirty
pm on ten and ten Play. The executive producer of
(54:43):
No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Ruvret.
Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host,
Kate lane Brook. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I was kind of the one that made the first move.
I was just painting one day in front of the
and I was standing in front of the easel and
it just came to me clear as a bell.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It was like, you need to do.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It right now. And I literally legged it to the
birth death marriages and got a divorce kid and then
served it to him. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm Kate Lanebrook and welcome to No Filter. I don't
think you could find anyone in Australia who doesn't absolutely
adore Poling. Now, even if people don't know, she's got
three names, and her name isn't just Poe. I mean
those are my words, not hers, And honestly, I think
it made her a little bit uncomfortable when I said
(01:11):
it to her face, but it's true. There's something about Poe.
She's one of those rare people who bring sunshine into
any room she walks into. Now you might know her
as an artist, a chef, a TV presenter. She wears
many hats, but that's just the public side of Poe.
(01:34):
Because behind the scenes. Her story is rich and deep
and at times painful. She spent years in the church
before walking away from it, which left her untangling years
of belief and identity. She's navigated profound grief, not just
in the traditional sense of loss, but also through the
(01:54):
heartbreak of two major relationship breakdowns. In this conversation, Poe
opens up about all of it, about the loneliness, the questioning,
the rebuilding. She says she's often felt like an alien
trying to work out where she fits. But through it all,
(02:15):
she's discovered something quite extraordinary, and she shares it an
ability to find beauty in the sorrow, light in the mess,
and humor in the most unexpected places. This is a
conversation about identity, resilience, creativity, CONGI, and what it means
(02:37):
to start over again and again. But we started with
a bit of a laugh as I needed Poe's help
on a very urgent problem I had. I need you
in a professional capacity as well as your divine personal self.
So after this, by the time people hear this, you
(02:57):
will have been on the Sampang show. Yes, you will
have been pushed into a Christmas tree, which is the
ultimate honor. On that show.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's amazing that that was on my list.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, and who even knew that that was a thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
I did the show last night and made the mistake
of having dinner with them after the show. Yes, I'm
very shabby. I'm wearing the same book. Oh so, Oh
my gosh, you're hilarious. Yes, it's terrible. It comes.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Did you do Walk of Shame to work today?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah? I did exactly, and I thought I'll poell understand.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I totally understand. I love it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
What would you make someone who's hungover?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh congie? Oh the rice poy because it's got ginger,
it's you know, it's like very warming and slurpy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh so not a fried thing?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
No, oh yeah, I would do conji. And then you
have all the pickles and stuff like that with it.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Really okay because I am a bit pickled, are you?
So you don't need any more pickles? And you know
the other thing, because people were talking us, in fact,
everyone that I've mentioned that I'm going to be talking
to you, yeaes seed. Everyone's like, this will not come
as a surprise to you. Oh my god, I love Poe.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
It's so lovely.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
It's so lovely. But I need to know who hates Poe, who.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Hates po people out there? I'm sure, But do you
know what's really interesting? I think if you because on
my socials they don't really show up. Now that I've
now that I've said this, they will. And the more
commercial you become, the more invite of course. So when
I was at the ABC, I had a lot of
Nan haters Nan. Yeah, like on the ABC that stupid
(04:51):
girl and her fake last that kind of thing. And
also I saw that in that little cut she put
the salt in and the salt still on the table.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Oh I can't you know that kind of thing? Well
that not really.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
You know, you say proper travel through life?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, deeply and resoundingly loved, which is very unusual from
someone who occupies a public space.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That makes me feel so uncomfortable, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
But it is quite an extraordinary thing. No one ever
goes op pos. She's very polarized.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It's just not a phrase that exists, is it.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Look, whenever I say this, I feel very self conscious
because it sounds like I'm giving myself a pat on
the back, But I'm not. I feel so loved by
the Australian public generally and I'm so grateful for it,
and I want to acknowledge it because I feel so.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Fortunate to have that.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And I don't know why, but there are lots of
people that are annoyed by me. They pop up once
in a while, not not lots a few.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
People out there. I think maybe with your maybe with
your like market benchure, maybe with jam face, your cooking business,
there'd be some other people that are like I was
making those biscuits before Poe or some kind of like
little yeah, little yeah or something yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And I've had people get really mad at me because
I couldn't come out and like, you know, sign a
napkin when I was in the middle of running the bakery.
I don't realize that they're not watching Telly. I'm actually
an accounted for body at work, do.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, So and then they're like, you know, she snubbed me,
And I was like, I didn't snub you. I just
was like in the middle of serving like thirty customers.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, because this is a very interesting thing about you
as well. So you're an artist. I think people know that.
I think so yeah, before you started like cooking, yes, yeah, yeah,
you have your own business. I do you live in Adelaide, Yes,
and your business is run by you? Yes, it is.
(07:07):
So you don't have a commercial kitchen where you've got minions. No. No.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
So I tried to have a cafe and I had
it for about five years. I'm really bad with time.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh yeah, so am I? Yeah? I think I had
it for about five yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that's
what I was on.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
The tax department will leave you.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
No, I'm more good there.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So I had I had the farmer's market first, right,
because I wanted to just dip my toe into it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And then and then.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
It went really well. So we opened a cafe and
I found it. It was great for three years, but
I literally had to put my life on hold. It
felt like I had birth like quads overnight because I
and I was quite aware of this that I have
no skills in managing people and training as well. It's
(07:55):
so difficult, and because I've spent most of my life
working solo as an artist, it's always about just I
hand me expressing my love of a thing that I
love to do. And when it turned into that, I
hated it and I thought I had to go back
to the beginning. So I got rid of the cafe
and just went back to the farm, which I'd had
(08:15):
the whole time.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
When you say we, who was we? Also?
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So me my and my two business partners, which is
my ex and.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
My hang on.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Which this is the other thing that people may may
know about you.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, so you you were married, Yes, you were married
to Matt. Right, and you were married to Matt because
you seem to have these ten year cycles in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I think I do. Yeah, So Matt I was
with for ten years and then when John I was
twelve years Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Right, so John I was your second husband and Matt
your first husband. You met while you were a mormal, Yeah,
which I find extraordinary because I was raised to Jehovah's
witness And you know, people always get those religions mixed up.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They do because they prosely both.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yeah. Run so which yeah? Door knock, yeah, door knock? Yeah?
Did you do that?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I did do it did a month in my home town.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Yes, you were a little bad or sister yow and
you so you would knock on people's doors? And is
that the Church of Latter day Saints? It is?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So you would say you knock on the door.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Hello, I'm sister, I'm from the Church of that Day Saints.
Would you have a moment so that we could give
you a message? Right? And if they had a moment,
what would the message be, Well, we'd go in, we'd
present the Book of Mormons. So much it was like
just dissipated. I had a terrible memory, and which.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I think is a blessing, by the way, I think
so too. Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (09:58):
I used to think that I was really resilient because
there's been a few things in my life that some
people would consider to be quite traumatic, but I have
I don't. I kind of just slip out of them
pretty pretty easily. And I used to think it's because
I was resilient, but I actually think.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
You can't remember it. But you know, it's an interesting
thing about humans because we have a capacity to remember
the good things. That's why people have more than one child.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes, And also when you've broken up with someone, you
often find yourself reminiscing just the good times.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes, not the that's right. Yeah, but when you talk
about traumatic things, is one of them the breakup with
your first husband?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, both breakups, and then like like mum's passing, you know,
I was away for that.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Which was just shit. Were you overseas it was?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
What part of your life were you in when when
this happened. Where were you at? I was in a
really good place.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
And I was in I was I was actually when
she got ill. Because mom and I have always had
this slightly spiky relationship.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And let me grapple with the concept of the daughter
having a spine exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's the same thing, isn't it. It's female female, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, there's just always fe in the head. Oh my god, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah. And also because you were raised as well by
your auntie Kim, who you were very close to.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yes, so there was that tension between.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Your mum and yeah little.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Bit yeah yeah, not her sister, her auntie, her aunt Yeah,
so you're great auntie, yeah, my great auntie right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So there's always been these little tensions and it just
is the way it is. And before she passed away,
she actually said to me, you know, I know, whenever
there's these rifts in the house with all the women,
you because her and Auntie just squabbled NonStop, and she says,
you know, you need to think about the fact that
(12:06):
she came to live with us when your brother was born,
shortly after your brother was born, So she's kind of
been around our whole lives. Dad and I have never
really been on our own.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And so she came out from Malaysia with you, Yes
she did, which is an amazing uprooting. Is she devoted
her life to you, yeah, and your family, yeah, your brother. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
She never had her own life. She never dated, never
had any relationships. She kind of just devoted herself to
my family. And she was adopted, and so she was
always kind of this outcast in the family in a way.
And I think she just found something.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
With us that she really loved.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
She was only supposed to come and help mum look
after my brother for a little while, but she ended
up never leaving because she loved it so much. Yeah,
being with us, and I think.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
She's your mom loved that she did. I don't think she.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Knows any better because imagine having being young and having
like an older woman come and help you. It would
be divided, yeah, which is what it is back in
the day, right, Like it's quite common for grandparents extended family.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, Yeah, And it's the other way, because you know,
I was reading this thing about how to raise independent
children recently and it's it's it's so hard. Now, that's
why there's just so many issues with the youth, because
the resources are half. So many single parents, yes, you know,
(13:40):
and it's across all so socioeconomic.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And even if it's not single parents. I remember reading
once the nuclear family is two people doing the work
of the tribe. That's right. Why did I think of
that when I had four children and my husband and
I would sometimes look like it is it's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(14:05):
so you had this and particularly in Asian families. Well two.
So your auntie came without that familial lineage, yes, because
she was adopted. Yeah, yeah, so she was looking for
her place, I think so.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I mean, she was adopted as a baby, so she's
very loved by all the extended family. But there was
something about our situation that I think gave her purpose
and she really loved. Yeah, I think looking after my
brother and myself and me.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And so when you were overseas, your mom said to
you before you went away.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yes, she said go and I checked in with her.
But I wish I hadn't. I wish I had just
used my intuition, and the way I had to unpack
it was to understand that I'm a bit of a
risk taker and I just took a really bad risk.
(15:05):
And I think if I had my way again, I
probably would have done the same thing, because it's my
nature to do that. Yes, And that's how I've been
able to get over it. Yes, it's just to accept
that that crap decision was probably always going to be
that crap decision? Do you know what I'm saying? Because
of my nature?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
But how important do you think?
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
This is always a thing in grief and loss and
farewelling someone who's you know, one of the only two
trees in your orchard? Yeah a parents, Yeah you've still
have got three trees. Would it have been more important
for her for you to be there or more important
for you to be there?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I think both. I think she would have loved it
if I was there. But it's interesting when I do
feel there is I definitely feel like people choose to go. Yes, Yeah,
I go because she waited till I was in a
position where I shouldn't have had any reception. I was
on some weird like hell in this I don't know
(16:10):
where I was.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I don't know where you were.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I was, I I was Where were you? I was
in Austria or like sound of music ish, No, No,
I wasn't in Austria. Where was I Vienna? I think
I was in Vienna? Yeah, Schnitzel, Yeah yeah, And so
Fay you said that, because that actually came to my
(16:34):
mind when I was trying to figure out I was anyway,
And so you know how funny it is like with
certain people they would know exactly the time, the place,
but I'm just I don't care anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
It's it's a feeling for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And so I I had just gotten a text from
my god sister, Mum's goddaughter and she said, hey, I
think you should FaceTime your mom now, and I was
like okay. So I was like okay, good luck to
me and managed to talk and everyone was around her
at that point, and I was like, hi, Mom, and
I already made a decision. I said, hey, I'm going
(17:12):
to come home really really soon. And I really met
the next day, but I didn't want to sort of
stir her up too much.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
She looked really really weak.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And she said no, no, no, she goes you just stay
and finish your thing. And I could feel she really
meant it, and I think it's because she knew she
wasn't going to be able to hang on for that long.
But pretty much after she spoke to me, like hours later,
she passed away, like maybe eight hours later, eight or
ten hours.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Like were you on the plane then or no?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I was asleep, so I'd gone to bed, and the
next day I was, yeah, I was about to come home,
but I yeah, then it was just like speedy get
on the first plane.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And where were you in relation to your personal relationships
at that time? Single? Sproken up with Johno?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And I was just, yeah, I've been in a really
good place for like years now.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Very single, Yeah, very single, A very single, very single
and not dating? You're not dating and.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
Now not dating? No, I don't know how, Kate, No,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I don't know. I imagine, imagine if he.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Was single right now, how would you do it? I
literally how to do it? Like I don't have any solutions.
To keep asking people and they're like, you know, Raya whatever,
Like no, it's.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Just but how did you meet? Like John O? So
he was a.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Runner on Master Chef last season one was a member.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
When you said that was two thousand and nine nine, ye,
where you sprang onto our greens and obviously you'd caught
his eye.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, we caught each other's eyes.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And at what point did you realize that was going
to be.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
I think it was he had kind of sort of
like thirty kind of personality, and I was like, Oh,
it's all the girls.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
He's doing it to all the girls.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
But then I kind of realized there was definitely some
kind of proper energy there. And it was interesting because
it became a very traditional kind of old fashioned courtship
because we're not allowed to frat nines with us with
the crew, no, Hjara really onto that.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, good old day.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah yeah yeah, and there ever was such a thing.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, And so it was just like sort of reduced
to little cute looks across the yard. And he used
to travel us back and from the house to the
studio and so we'd sort of just have a little
look in the rearview vision mirror that was it, and
then say hi to each other, hello and goodbye. So
it's very cute, yeah, very bronze sisters. Oh my god,
(19:47):
it's so he just saw.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
A glimpse of your stocking dangle.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
And there is That's not all of my conversation with Poe.
Coming up after the break, we talk about the first
ever season of Mastershif, the very definitive decision for Poe
to leave her husband, her first husband, and Poe reveals
(20:15):
a sneaky intensity in her personality. What Don't Go Anywhere?
That was a remarkable season. Yeah, it wasn't that season one,
Yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was the thing like we all went into it
just not knowing what any reality TV wasn't even really
a big thing then, and so the word amongst the
crew was just like this is mad, like to do
a reality TV cooking show in Australia.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
It's just such a weird idea.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then as the show went on again through whispers
of the because we were on proper lockdown in season
for like the first few years, I think we were
all on proper lockdowns, like because it was you had
time ten minute two time to ten minute phone calls
a week or not prison, its proper prison.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah yeah, And like how long did the shooting of
the series take?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Five months?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, so it went because I went all the way
to the end.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You sure did, I sure did. And then how was
that for your family?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
They they loved it. They had no idea, obviously, no
one knew what it was going to be, but it
was such a It was such an amazing experience for me,
and I see it all the time now as a judge,
where people who have felt disconnected to their families find
(21:39):
connection when they come on the show because it's something
for the whole family to rally behind and they just.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Find a way to.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, they just find that solidarity again, which is so nice.
And I didn't. It wasn't like my family was broken
up or anything. But I think my parents had always
been a bit worried about me because I've lived such
an unorthodox path.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yes, and they were very orthodox in their desires for you.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
No, I give them a lot of credit for that.
As migrant parents, they weren't sort of like you have
to be a doctor or an accountant or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
But they came to Australia because they wanted, yes for you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh my god, Kate, I was such a dunce student,
like I just kind of you want yeah, Yeah, I
was a little daydreamer, So I was terrible academically, which
is all it's about. When you're in an Asian country.
There's very little sort of focus on social or sport
or any kind of like social development activities. It's more
(22:42):
just all about academia. And I just failed, so dismally.
I was at the back, cutting up my graph paper
into noodles and scratching coins and making a little hawk
a store in the back, pencils to season at mass.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Always in my own little world.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
So they're like, Okay, I think this is going to
be a but interesting food interesting, don't forget the season
because we had a lot of street store So I
used to love that was like a favorite thing of
mine to watch all the street vendors cook.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And so yeah, I would just do that.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And so yeah, my parents, my parents, my mum, I
think mainly recognize that I had a dubious academic future there.
And her brothers were already living in Adelaide.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
They were borders. Yep, they were borders.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
They finished school, studied, you know, had really you know,
went to university there, married there, so they were settled.
And back then it was quite easy to sponsor a
relative over. It's much harder now. So yeah, we came
over to infrastructure family.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And so you were like eight or nine?
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Was nine?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I turned nine on the plane. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So every time it's my birthdate, it's also the anniversary
of how long we've been in Estra.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
And then I think this is so interesting because okay,
twofold one migrant families who either have two kind of responses,
because my parents were migrants as well, that either they
run to Australia yep, open arms and like land of opportunity,
or they enclave themselves. Yes, your parents sound like they
(24:28):
were like, this is the land of opportunity, Land of opportunity,
for sure. And you felt that even as a nine
year old.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Oh my god, yes, yes, I remember. I felt like
my childhood had a very dark energy to it. I
felt very out of place. It's really weird, Like it's
so distinct to me. It's that feeling thing again right
where I just felt always like an alien, like I'd
(24:54):
been beamed in from somewhere else, right, like that you
didn't quite belong to you. No, No, I didn't understand
my world. Like when I went to school, everything was
just mumbo jumbo, and I remember just thinking I feel odd,
like I feel all the time, and it's how got
beamed in. And then as soon as my mum said
to me we're moving to Australia, it was like lightning
(25:17):
struck my head. I was like, oh my god, everything's
gonna make sense, everythings gonna be fine. Like it was
like a no. I always describe it as a knowing, right,
not an inkling, but like I knew. And then when
we landed, and I'm sorry if you've read or heard this,
but I always talk about how when we were just
traveling back to my uncle's house, I remember just I
(25:39):
felt like Alice in Wonderland. I remember even finding all
the street signs really beautiful, right. I was just enamored
with Australia immediately, in giness, the sparsness, those wide Adelaide roads, yeah,
compared to where you'd come from, which I imagine had
some density and yeah yeah, and that sort of. I
(26:01):
used to always find the humidity really.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oppressive.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oppressive, yeah, And I remember just loving like the dry
heat and.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah, so weird.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
And right away, I I like, I was fine at school,
I performed really well. And did you speak English?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I did? Right, So your family spoke English? Yeah, you're right. Yeah,
So that would have made it easy. Yeah, heaps easier, Yeah,
heaps easy. But then often people like to focus on
their difference, like when they arrived, did you have a
sensation that you were not like the other ones? Yes?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I was incredibly shy, so I remember having Yeah, even
though I felt at home in Australia, still had that feeling,
but not in a way that felt dark. It was
like it was like I don't know how to explain it,
because all these kids just rallied around me and protected me.
(27:07):
It was so beautiful, like my experience coming to Australia
was beautiful. It was like textbook perfect. But I would
look at them they were my friends, but I would
look at them in all like I can never I
will never be able to be like you. Because Pip,
who was like sort of I guess, the leader of
the gang that I was in, she would ride to
(27:29):
school every morning, and I remember thinking that was amazing
because I could ride a.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Bike and just would you have been allowed to ride
a bike?
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Probably not? No, not to school, no no. And I
remember thinking wow, for her to have that kind of
independence at her age was just mind blowing to me.
And then just to see like I used to find
things that were very ordinary, Like I would find a
way to think I could never be that cool. Like
(27:59):
she would open her lunch box and it was like
one of those refrigerated ones ylation, and I'd be like, oh,
that'd be cool enough to have a lunch box that
has I have resolation? What did you take it with
munch and never be cool enough to have a vegemite
sandwich and barbecue shapes and sultanas. It's just weird because
(28:20):
I had fried rice and that was just like oh my.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
God, yeah yeah yeah, and a smell yeah, and it
was like yeah under.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
The foil and eat things with a spoon. I was like,
bloody hell, I just want a sandwich. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
But at some point that became your strength. Yeah, it
took me a while. Well it does take a while.
But at what point did you Yeah, when were you
when you started to go, oh, these things that you
know to be an outlier or an observer in youth,
(28:55):
I think stands you in good stead as an adult. Okay,
sometimes so late, I would say.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
When I was maybe nineteen or twenty, yeah, way past school,
and I think maybe going to Canada, I had a
lot to do.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh and what was the calling in Canada?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
So I was in Utah, right, oh, China to the
Mormon find a husband, no joke, thinking maybe I might
find a husband.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
When did you become a Mormon?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Then when I was sixteen? No, fifteen, fifteen, sixteen, yeah,
around then.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
What religion were your parents?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
We were sort of cultural Buddhists. I say culture Buddhist,
as in they didn't go to the temple. Auntie is
very staunch Buddhist, so I've been raised with that around
all the time. But also I find Chinese Malaysians are
quite sort of superstitious, so they'll you know, have hedged
their bets and have like.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
A myriad of gods at their.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah yees, covering their bases.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So like sure, good academic, right, you know, performance for
wealth and prosperity, all that kind of stuff, But it's
more for that rather and it's like a fear rather
than a philosophy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
You know me, so transactional, yeah yeah, yeah, bit of that.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And so that's how I got raised. So I wouldn't
say we were philosophically entrenched in like the teachings of Buddha,
but we were Buddhist most And.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Then how did them how did the Mormons find you?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So we got into some financial issues because my parents
had some businesses.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
And we were in the doll drums and they came knocking.
Oh and who answered the door Me and mum and
invited the mean yeah wow yeah to clean cut, cute boys. Yeah.
Why they was American because they're doing their missionary service.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, so Australias would go somewhere else as well. You
don't always you can, you sometimes get called within your country,
but you just it literally gets pulled out of a hat.
Well through prayer and inspiration. Right, Yeah, that's the hat. Yeah,
that's the hat, like the sorting hat. That's the soft hat.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
And so then you went started going to the church. Yes,
full on, it was full on. We commrely.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
We got baptized and that was like that was us
because we lost a lot of family support during that time,
and so the church was this amazing social structure that
we got kind of helly dropped.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Into, right, and.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
People were really kind to us.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
They were really kind to us. Yeah, I'll never forget
that power of the church. You know when people like
to say, now religion is responsible for everything bad, all
the wars and whatever. I think it negates to a
certain extent, the sense of community that can come from
a church.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
It's so weird religion.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Like the more I stand back now and I'm more
relaxed about it because I'm not fighting it because I'm
not in one, the more reasonable I am about it
in my head, and I think with a bit of
age as well, like you just everything just tends to
even out a bit more and you're less volatile on
your opinions. Because I feel like religion, even though I
resented it coming out of it and when I was
(32:19):
in it, because what happened was there was a cycle
of I loved it.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
But then what happened was my brain after going to
Canada and hanging out like my first bestie was trans
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
It literally blew my world apart, like so forbidden in
the church.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, Like I'd never had that kind of freedom before
because I'd lived at home before I went overseas.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
So to.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Be in an environment where there was just so so
much gray as opposed to black and white, which is religion, right,
I just it completely flipped my brain. And then I
went home and then I met Matt and Matt was
just this incredible, doably intelligent, articulate, little sort of rebel
(33:15):
at church and I and we were really good friends
at first because we found solace, intellectual solace.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
With each other.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So we used to just sit up and like, you know,
do you really reveal things? I watched David Attenborough because
these are dull is that rebellion? Well not really, I'm
just joking, but like, well, we don't believe in duwinn
In theory, so because it's.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Of course it's like the Witnesses creation, yeah, creation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, so all that kind of stuff. Like we just
explored sort of a world outside of the church. And
then ultimately when we got married, we chose to say
to our family, we're not getting married in the temple
where we're just going to get normal guarden righting, and
left the church. But yeah, we had to sort of
(34:03):
really coach each other out of that situation because it's
a lot, you know how it is, it's such a
stronghold on you, but.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Also you have to get to the point where it's
harder to stay, yes than it is to leave.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Absolutely, what was your breaking point and when did you leave?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think I always knew yeah. I always knew growing
up when you were talking about that sensation of not
feeling like you feeling like an alien, yeah, kind of
looking at people. I knew that I wasn't a good
Jehovah's witness and the ironies. I used to pray to
Jehovah to make me a good Jehovah's witness. Yeah, because
I knew that I wasn't. Yeah, he didn't. Wow, he didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
He didn't ask your prayer.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
No, I didn't, didn't answer my prayer, didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
It's the evidence right there.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, you would think God, not that you think of
it like that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
At that time, I was like, oh okay, now I'm
gonna have to leave.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah. Yeah. But then so you were with Matt and
then this is the bit that is that most people
cannot comprehend that when you broke up with Match, he
ended up with bestie Sarah. Yeah right, yeah, okay, which
is a story that I know you must have. You
must have to tell this all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(35:17):
but it is extraordinary. No, no one minds it. But
what we can't believe is that you don't mind it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, I think like the thing that like it's not
as amazing as you'd think. I don't think, because we
were we don't have any children, right number one, That
definitely helps. Yeah, b makes things less, you know, erotic
right there, the tension of that, yeah yeah. And I
think also at that point we were so broken together,
(35:47):
like we were bringing out the worst in each other.
It just was such a dysfunctional relationship and we knew it,
but we didn't know how to get out of it,
because even though we were out of the church, there
was still that sort of familial pressure and everyone thought
we were going in the opposite direction. Everyone's like, oh,
we go have babies, and we're like, we going me
all the way. So I think the reason why I
(36:11):
was kind of the one that made the first move.
I was just painting one day in front of the
and I was standing in front of the easel and
it just came to me clear as a bell. It
was like, you need to do it right now. And
I literally legged it to the birth death marriages and
got a divorced kid and then served it to him.
(36:32):
Oh yeah, with dinner with really badly cooked meat in
three no, no, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Live was a relief for both of you.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
No, Matt was I don't know what it is with guys.
I felt like he was blindsided. I was so bad
in the caves, yes, where men thought we were fine
and we were like, have you not heard I've been
desperately Yeah. Yeah, I think the male propensity to sweep
things under the rug is very high like that that
(37:05):
this threshold is quite high. So anyway, he was still
quite blindsided. But I think when he him and Sarah
started to when they were together, I I was like,
if I choose to be angry with this, it's like
I'm going backwards because I'm the one that initiated this.
(37:28):
I'm the one that is saying I don't want this anymore.
And it was because I felt like I was turning
into something that I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I was such a ball of rage.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Anything could set me off, right, Yeah, angry poet, Oh
my god. I was like throwing chairs and smashing chairs
on the ground. I was psycho. Yeah, and I was like,
this is not good. No, that's not good.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
That is not me. Also hard to imagine. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
People always say that there is.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You seemed and yang.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, you know, there's a very intense site to me personality. Yeah,
because I think when you're creative.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
There has to be I do, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
There has to be an intensity because for you to
you have to be self driven, your you know, your
standards have to you have to create your own bars
of measure. So like I think within that there has
to be I don't know, people call it passion, but
there is so much new neuroticism and I don't know, obsessiveness.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
You know, you have to have those things and you
need a launching place for your art to catapult from. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Yeah, And I think running away from something, whether it's
from within, is a great inspiration.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Well do you think, Yeah, it's all about demons and
work avoidance and sometimes the work is yourself, yes, and
that you can find it yeah yeah yeah yeah clean house,
in the in the in the in the streets, yeah yeah,
all that all that.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
After this short break, we talk about our shared love
for the late great Cal Wilson. Plus I surprised Poe
with a message from her Master Chift co star Julie Goodwin,
don't go anywhere. So then you decided to? So yeah,
(39:33):
I was cool with it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Like it was. It was really fast the turnover, because
I think we were already in that friendship stage, even
though we didn't want to deny. So the transition was way.
It sounds so much more dramatic than it really was.
I was still pissed, like I'm not gonna deny that,
but I knew I was gonna. I knew that for
me to hold on to it, it was such a
(39:56):
vivid it was like a picture in my brain. I
was like a picture of me holding onto the garbage.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I was like, no, let the garbage go. Let
the garbage.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
No, I shouldn't call Matte garbage. He's like, probably one
of the most precious people.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
In my life.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
But those feelings are garbage.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
The feelings are garbage, and what I was turning into
was garbage. So I was like I would be going
in reverse. So I was like, I have to find
a way to accept this. And it wasn't even that hard.
I was just like, oh, this is not that hard.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
The once you let it go, yeah, everything kind of
found an ease to it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think it was just I felt like this release
and everything fell into place. It was so but even
the way that we broke up met what Matt was
a real gentleman about it, Like he left me a
lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
He left me zed our dog.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
And the funny, the thing that most people find even weirder,
is that he moved across the street, okay, and Sarah
lived around the corner from me, so we lived in
this little triangle and we just sort of it was
funny because we.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Were aware of that it was unusual. It was unusual.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
And he says, is it weird if I move and
across the street, And I actually said I would love
it if you did, because I feel like us completely
separating after living in each other's pockets is so unhealthy.
I actually think it's okay, and we kind of nursed
each other through the breakup.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
It is interesting because often you think that he's a
person in a relationship that you've loved and that's meant
more to you than anyone, and then when.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
You say for the relationship, they're just gone.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
How can that be?
Speaker 2 (41:39):
It is? I always had associated it with a level
of passion. Yeah, that if you felt so passionate about
the person, you couldn't be here to see them. So
maybe if you didn't have that passion and you'd outgrown it, yeah,
it makes it easier. But then maybe it's also just
a great philosophy to have. Yeah, I don't know, I
(42:00):
don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
It was like as soon it was almost like, as
sooner as I was willing to do the deed, which
was get divorced, my whole body and mind, everything clicked
and it was like okay, it was like really easy.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
And then did everything else open up to you? Because
from that point on you've been stratospheric?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:27):
I did that interesting.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, I had an amazing exhibition afterwards. And then Sarah
was the one that said to me, hey, I think
you should apply for this thing.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, I remember it was on my little knocker.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh really knock the brick.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, And I was like, what is this and she goes,
I don't know, it's so weird. Po I don't even
really know, she said. But all I know is these
words are so chilling to me still to this day,
because the choice of words is so unusual. She said,
I don't know really what it is, but I think
you'll be great at it, and I think you're going
(43:05):
to be there till the end.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
She didn't say you're gonna win it.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
I was there to here there.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
And then it was the start of everything. The end
was the start of it there and it's how we
know you. Yeah, And the other thing I was going
to say about your migrant parents is the affirmation of
who you were and the acceptance and how the viewers
just went, we love this woman to have for them
(43:34):
to have their fledging little Poe, their little strange cuckoo,
the cuckoo in the knees, to see her being so
widely loved in this land that they had chosen, How
beautiful that is.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Well, I was kind of on my way to talking
about that and I got lost, because we love a
chat we do. That was that it was so impactful
for me. I was thirty five at that point, so
like a grown woman, and it's still it did so
much for me, for my fam, for me relationship with
(44:09):
my family, because they finally went, oh, her wild and
willy ways have panned out. She is going to be okay.
And after that, my parents just left me alone because
they've always been a little bit like what are you
to do with this? You know, you know, just always
nagging you need money about yeah, like you know, getting
more stable. But I'd always managed to hustle, like I'm
(44:31):
not afraid of hard work. So they've always known I
would be okay, but you know, one failed relationship, you know,
and being on my own and you know, being a
bit traditional, They're like, you know, I guess hoping that
I'll find someone else and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Did they want a grand child? Did they put that
pressure on you?
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Mum mentioned it quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Dad never.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, I think she really wanted one. But my brother
had four.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
So you made up for everyone, Thank you, brother, I
didn't you? Yes, Yes, someone has to just just for
quiet in your family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
So like for me, I think I've all always had
such a sort of creative, sort of chaotic way of
approaching life. It was so affirming for me to be
this in an environment where my brain type excelled because
(45:28):
it compresses the chaos, compresses into clarity. When I'm in
that sort of slightly highly charged panic situation, pressure makes diamonds. Yeah.
So I found that environment really exhilarating, and it made
me realize that all these things that I'd fought about
myself and fought or had kind of resisted about yourself,
(45:56):
Why am I like this? Why am I so disorganized?
Or why am I always this this and this. I
was like, oh wow, there is a place for it,
and it made me understand that it's it's also what
makes me creative. Yeah, so it was. Yeah, it did
so many things for me, like for my self esteem.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Would you like to know what the winner, who was
there till the end with you, thought of you, Julie. Yeah,
have a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
I'm so glad that I got to go through Master
Chef with Poe and be at the end standing next
to her. It's hard to describe, actually what a generous
spirit of a human being she is. I just love
her to death and I have ever since I met her.
She's hilariously funny, she's quirky and unique, she's insanely creative
(46:49):
and just a.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Gorgeous, gorgeous human being. I trust her, I love her.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
She's my friend. And yeah, thank you for asking me
to say a few words about her.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Cheers.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Oh my gosh, jus, but oh my god, Poe's all
those things extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
She's so creative.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Sometimes I think you don't get a sense of how
the world sees you, because of course you're looking at
the world through the prism of your own eyes. That
is how the world sees you and I also we
had a very dear joint friend we do, Cal Wilson. Yeah,
and you met Cal. I love the concept of people
(47:34):
who are open to new friendships throughout their life. You know,
some people go, well, this is my posse and this
is You're not that person.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
No, I'm always adding.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, and you met Cal in the jungle. Yeah, she
was my bunkie and you became such a significant person
in her life.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I don't even actually know think I knew that, which
is so sad in a way, like I never dared
to think that, you know, because I yeah, because of
that thing where she's so established and but I adored her.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
But Cow was the same. Cal was a quirky like
Cal also spend a lot of her time, I think,
feeling like she didn't really fit, and then when she
met you, it was like you rose to meet each other. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
She was my little piece of solace in the jungle.
As soon as I saw her walking and I was like,
oh my god, this is going to be okay, you know,
because you've done it and you're I.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Haven't done the jungle. Oh you haven't. Oh no, I
haven't done I'd never do the jungle. Look, you might
like to eat testicles, but you know that's not for
me yet.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
Okay, so when you get in there, you do you do? Yeah,
you do sort of put your radar out. And like
as soon as I saw her, and you're I was
going to be fine, and yeah, she's I think we
actually got closer outside of it in a way because
you know, you miked up and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
But yeah, what a.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Divine human. And I say, I don't use the word divine.
I'm not just throwing that out there. I say divine
because she's literally godly in her ability to love and
give like infinitely, you know. At her memorial, it was
(49:32):
so funny because I was really I wanted to talk
about how she's such a little pebbler, like, you know,
she'd always give, you know, give you little gifts. And
when she passed away, and she was very crafty, very crafty,
I didn't realize, but at every corner of my house
there's a little cow thing she's given me. And it's
(49:56):
so strange because I'd only known her for a couple
of years at that point, and I was like, how
she managed to infiltrate my entire house even though I've
only seen her like a handful of times essentially, and
we were really close. So at the memorial, I wanted
to talk about that, and I was like, I don't
want to brag that she's given me so many presents.
(50:17):
Everyone about it and I was like, yeah, it's okay.
But then also, oh my god, how did she have
this capacity to love everyone so hard and thoroughly and
make space so much space for people and proper space,
like thoughtful.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Where you know, Like, but I think you have the
same capacity. Okay, thank you. I think you do.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
It's so kind.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
I think that's what people respond to about you is
there's a certain openness. And I think a lot of
people as you travel through life with its slings and
arrows and the pains, and as my mother says, in
a classic mother way, the longer you live, the more
bad things are going to happen to you. It's true,
but it is true, it's true. How do you retain
(51:04):
this openness to the world, the soft under belly.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, yeah, I'm always like that. And I think I've
always been like that since I was a kid, even
though I was shy. I think I've always been very
I think curiosity. That is the main word that comes
to my mind. I'm curious about how I can feel more,
what experiences I can put myself into. I'm very greedy
(51:30):
for because i think a lot of people think that,
you know, I've landed in this position of you know,
working in the media because I'm greedy for attention, but
I'm really not. I mean a lot. I really love
being acknowledged and recognized for things that I think I'm
decent at that I've worked very hard at, you know,
being okay at. But it's more that my greed for
(51:53):
life experiences.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
But how are you not how does that not get
replaced with fear, you know, because a lot of people
are held back by the fear of failure or the
fear of success. Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
I love new feelings, like experiencing new kinds of feelings,
Like I'm so curious.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Like even when I was going through.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Grief, and I think it's the age, it hit me
at a really good age. And also being on my
own was great as well, to be able to process
grief on my own because I was just so hyper
aware of all these privileges that I had, Like, wow,
I can process this without a husband and children, So
I can completely immerse myself in this without having to.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Look after any worry of that.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, the luxury of that, and really deep dive into
it and within it. I was still able to find
so many, so much beauty in the sorrow, like I
really could. And I think it's because I'm always searching
for it. I'm not afraid of feeling so like, you know,
(53:00):
fear all the whole gamut. I love it. I love
because it's what it is to be human. So if
you're not going to feel, what the hell are you
going to do? Right?
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I think? Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I love you too, and I you know, I've it's
been embarrassing because because we've met properly through another dear
friend of.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
The other Kate, the other Kate Sebrann, and my son
is going out with her daughter.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And I've actually spent some time with who's absolutely gorgeous
and so your son, do you think, yeah, ah, that's interesting, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
But yeah it was.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I've secretly always wanted to be your friend, So that
was really it was so lovely to meet you that day.
And we had such a fun day, didn't we.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
Oh, it was the greatest.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, it was so spontaneous.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
So Poe and I kept up the jibber jabber long
after we had stopped recording. And who is one of
those people that you could talk to anywhere, anytime, for
any amount of time. There's so much that we didn't
get up to. By the way, I believe her to
be much more Buddhist than she thinks she is if
(54:23):
you listen to the tale of what she's learnt about
loss and life. And we didn't get onto her love
of bees, and we didn't get onto how she makes
his amazing jam tarts. I mean, there's so much. Poe
is currently one of the judges on Master Chef. You
can watch the series Monday to Wednesday at seven thirty
pm on ten and ten Play. The executive producer of
(54:43):
No Filter is Nama Brown. The senior producer is Grace Ruvret.
Audio production is by Jacob Brown and I'm your host,
Kate lane Brook. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening.
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