Gracie Otto Watched Her Dad’s Health Unfold From Behind The Camera

The Otto Legacy. An Award Winning Documentary. High End Fashion.

Gracie Otto is one of the Ottos—you know, Barry and Miranda Otto, Australian cinematic royalty. But she has carved out her own space in the industry. She’s the director behind The Other Guy, Deadloch, The Artful Dodger, and Heartbreak High.

However, it’s her most recent film, the AACTA-winning documentary Otto by Otto, that pulls back the curtain on the Otto family. What began as a project documenting her father, Barry, as he prepared to premiere a one-man show became something far more personal. Through her lens, Gracie realised she was capturing the unfolding reality of her dad’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis.

What You’ll Hear:

• How Otto by Otto became a heartbreaking portrait of her father, Barry Otto
• The highs and lows of a career in Australian film and theatre
• The challenge of documenting a loved one’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis in real time
• How and why she never stops working

THE END BITS:

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CREDITS:

Host: Kate Langbroek

Guest: Gracie Otto 

Executive Producer: Naima Brown

Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray

Audio Producer: Jacob Round

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Mom and Mia podcast. Mama Miya
acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this
podcast is recorded on.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
If I look at the end of the film now
and Dad's kind of asking me who I am, and
he's a bit confused, but he kind of knows I'm someone. Now,
I'm going to go see Dad in a minute, and
he has no idea who I am. Last year he
went from walking around the park one day to basically
never walking again. It's like two hundred different light bulbs
of everything you can do and they just start to
shut off and you go, oh, right, great, those thirty
light bulbs just went off.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Now without even realizing it. You'll know the name Otto,
whether it's actor Miranda Otto or Australian performing royalty Barry Otto,
or his youngest daughter my guest today director and filmmaker

(01:01):
Gracie Otto. If you haven't heard of her, you'll definitely
know her work because of the past five years she's
been working back to back on projects directing Australian series
with no more than a three week break. In that
entire time. He may have watched The Other Guy Deadlocke,
The Artful Dodger, or the cult phenomenon Heartbreak High. But

(01:26):
what has recently put Grace's name everywhere is her actor
award winning film Otto by Otto, a documentary following her
father as he prepares to premiere a one man show.
What makes this film heartbreakingly beautiful is that, over the

(01:47):
years she's spent documenting him, the film that began as
a tribute to his career became a deeply personal story
about watching his Alzheimer's diagnosis unfold before her eyes, as
Graceie fought to capture as much of the man she
knew before he disappeared. Grace's not only incredibly talented and

(02:10):
very humble, but also a fascinating person. Though she's only
read two books in her life, she's deeply immersed in
art and culture. A woman most comfortable when dressed in
Nike tracksuits, yet she directs multimillion dollar fashion films. She
takes cooking classes, and has just started seeing a trainer,

(02:33):
all in her attempt to learn how to be an
adult while embracing every work opportunity that comes her way.
I managed to catch Gracie during her rare three week
break right before she dies into her next project. And
knowing her she might not come up for air for
another five years. Gracie Otto, welcome to No Filter.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Thanks for having met.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, well we haven't had you yet, but we will.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah. Well yeah, I'll save my thanks to the end.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
It's quite an achievement to get you here, because you are.
I don't think it's an exaggeration one of the busiest
artists in the country in terms of being a director
and now an award winner. I think a lot of
people wouldn't even realize how much of your work they know.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
I feel like I always yeah, people are like, how
long you've been in the industry for and really like,
you know, I've been working since I was like eighteen,
after film school, making things on it, you know, fashion films,
like short films.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Like trying to do everything.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
But obviously in the last few years people are kind
of more aware of some of the projects that I've done.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
You do span an extraordinary sort of breadth of material, really,
like You've got, you know, Ladies in Black, or Heartbreak
High or your new film the docco about your family,
which I have to say is so extraordinary that I

(04:04):
felt when I was watching it that my chest was
being cleaved.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Heart felt like that making it.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes, and I'm not surprised. But my takeaway from it,
which was interesting because because of your family obviously, and
because of your dad Barriotto, who is a proper legiand
that you have very much the sense of a woman
who has been very well.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Loved by her father, Yes, which is rare.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
When did you realize the weight of the surname?

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I guess growing up, you know, people knew, people knew
Dad is not really you know people at school or
anything like that, because dad was always a theater actor.
I think it was like when I was in year
ten and I got to go on set.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
On a lot of the Rings on my school holidays and.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I didn't know anything about the book or the movie
or you know, anything or whatever. It was just like
happy to like get out of the country and like,
you know, have some time with Miranda. And I remember
coming back to school and like your eight kids and
lots of kids kind of coming up to ask me
about that, Whereas you know, I didn't really know anything
about the film at the time. I was just like, oh, yeah,
they're like all these like cobbets and yeah, walking around

(05:17):
and outfits and pointed extra, Yeah, and so I think,
you know, really people probably knew Miranda more. And then
you know, we grew up in the theater world, so
it was like going to opening nights obviously was quite
normal to see people you know, on TV that we knew.
You know, you'd see them on a show or go
to the theater and then they'd you know, be over

(05:38):
at the house having lunch or whatever, so that that
was the norm. So yeah, I always, I always was
aware of that.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
But when you were at school, your interests you were sporty.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, yeah, I was very musical and sporty, like I
played an indoor Australian soccer team and I played New
South Wales softball. And my whole life, you know, with
my mum was dedicated to driving from Burgo's High School
to Narrabi Sports Academy or like up that way down
back to Bonnie rig for soccer training. And mum was great,
and I think, you know, I've got such a close

(06:10):
relationship because she would read. I'm like, you know, I
read like two books in my life and I don't
know what are they I read. However, last thing in
high school she was about the boy who wanted to
live forever, and I kind of was to live forever.
And then later I read Howard Hughes's biography. Yeah, I
kind of life eccentric men, so that was the kind

(06:30):
of interesting one. But yeah, so mom would tell me
about like what happened in the book and stuff, and
I would just watch the movie and then try and
wing it at school.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
That's kind of how it went.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Because you would have thought, probably, I mean, your your
sister is an actress, that you would have been an actress,
and that was a you tried being an actress.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I did drama at school.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I did Stephen Burkoff piece that I remember they had
banned me from doing because I had to masturbate on stage.
And that was the only time I actually saw Dad
down the hallways in the school looking for the principal's office.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
I was like, what is he doing here, because he
was like, my.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Daughter wants to perform this, and they actually let me
do it, which was great, and I was in like
a group show. But really I had this teacher, missus Hardin,
who built girls.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
I mean now a lot of the public schools.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I'm very proud public school girl, even though at the
time I really want to go to private school so
I could go on sea trips and go to the
parties and do all that. But I had a teacher,
Miss Hardy, who taught Certificates three in film and it
wasn't part of the HC or UAI or whatever, but
it was like.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
An extra unit.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
And she taught me, like on VHS, how to you know, edit,
and we set up cameras and I remember the first
DA when I was trying to set up my camera
and I was like, oh, it's not working, and she
was like, it is working. And you know, being a female,
if you just stay on set like oh this this
equipment is not working, You're not going to get anywhere.
And so she was actually like I remember she took
me to Oxford Street for the first time. She took
our class of four and I obviously, you know, growing

(07:48):
up in the industry, its everyone thought I would have,
you know, but I hadn't. Really, Like the first time
I went overseas was September twelve, two thousand and one,
the day after nine eleven. Miranda was doing a film
in Italy and invited Dad and I and Mom was like,
there's no Like everyone was like, there's no way you're going.
Like September eleven, it just happened, and I was like,
we are going to Italy. And we got on the
plane on September twelve and went to Italy. And Dad,

(08:09):
I'd never traveled with him, and he's so naive, like,
and so I just met all these boys on ICQ
on the internet because I just wanted to play soccer
with them, and he would just sit at coffee shops
and I would just go out like with these boys.
And I was like fourteen or fifteen I think I
was at the time, and just hang out or day
in Italy, and I just from then, you know, I
was just determined to get overseas and travel and see
the world. So really, even though people think, you know,

(08:31):
obviously it came from you know, a privileged upbringing and
been in the industry and stuff, but our family never
really were travelers, Like we went down to Cayama on
holidays and stayed in a motel. You know. We weren't
those families that kind of went on all those trips
that I would have loved to do. So I think
that's why I did so much traveling that as soon
as I finished high school, So that I could get
out of there.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
It's an interesting thing in the docco that you see
the world of your family, and in some ways it's
what you would expect from a very artistic family, you know,
the clutter and the art and the eccentricity, and it's glorious.
The shambling, rambling house. At the other end of that spectrum,

(09:14):
there's like a real groundedness in it. As a family.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Dad did mostly theater and like even Belvoir at the time,
I can't remember what exactly the structured contracts, but everyone
got paid the same, like the cleaner kind of got
paid the same as the lead actor or you know,
so it was a kind of you know, Dad was
the income on that. Obviously he did you know, a
few films and like you do ads or whatever. And
then Mum's always been like, you know, extremely left wing

(09:39):
and you know, hated the eastern suburbs, hated private stores.
Still you know, she works with the Department of Education
now in music, you know, so in a way we definitely,
you know, we're in a West kind of family, and
there was a lot of normality in that.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
The normality is very as I said, very grounding for you.
But then your life has also been extraordinary, starting with,
as you said, when you were really young, So when
you had that appetite to go overseas and to start
living a creative life, and you went to France when
you were seventeen.

Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah, I've scored. I was seventeen, cause I think I
just went.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I just got dressed to go to kindergarten like a
year early, and mom was like, well, I guess we'll
just let her go.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
So I finished.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
I actually finished year twelve, I think I was. I
just turned seventeen or yeah, yeah, and I went straight. Well,
I played soccer in Greece. I was on a tour
with the indoor Australian team. And then after that I
had a French exchange shit at my friend Marine, because
I remember she came to high school and everyone was like,
you know, people didn't really want to take her around,
and I was like, I will take the French girl around.

(10:43):
And I remember we went out to recess and she
just lit a cigarette and she was I was like, oh,
I did like really smoke in year eleven and she
was like, oh, but it's recess and I was like, yeah,
it's recess. And so I went and actually met up
with her in Paris, and yeah, I had a holiday
there and then decided to move there with my best
friend and we moved to Paris when I think, yeah,
we just turned eighteen, which was probably still one of

(11:04):
the most amazing experiences in my life.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
I mean we you know, lost a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
We were homeless for about I don't know, three weeks nearly,
just sleeping on random's couches. And it was just that
thing with that pride where you were like, you're not
an adult, but you're not a kid, so you kind
of you know, and it was pre obviously social media,
like you'd skype your family like once a week or whatever,
but you never wanted to admit that you'd.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
You know, messed up and like things weren't going well.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Like all I wanted to do was you know, go
to film school or you know immerse most and I
was working at the Scottish pub, earning five years an
hour and being like an all pair.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Still like one of the best times in my life.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, and so obviously you learned to speak French then, yeah,
I was very termed to speak French.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
I did French in high school and for my HSC
and then we went out one night was with Jean
Pierre Backri as this French actor and Vick Shdrosso is
a French soccer player. Randomly we met them like on
the street. He was like driving past his Lamborghini or something. Yeah,
we're eighteen.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
I was like blah, blah blah. And we went out
to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I was trying to say that I played soccer for
Australia and they were all kind of just laughing at me.
And it was like something in my life I could
never like rebut and never chime in with something smarter
us or sarcastic, and because.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I didn't have all the language.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
So my friend actually and I just went out every
night to nightclubs for about probably like ten months, and
I mean I met some whack people, but it was
great and I really became quite fluent in French. And
then I was like, you know, I hadn't studied it
at school, so I knew how to whip out the
subjunctive tents or like impress people and stuff. But I
do speak very fast in French, so people to you,
is it very hard.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I lived in Italy for two years and yeah, the speed,
the boo. I was just I just could never get
on board with it.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
I went there last years and took me over there,
which is so kind and it was great, but it
took me a few days.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And I was listening to SBS French radio.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Like walking around here for about a month beforehand, just
to try and you know, get back in the zone
because i'd arrive in people like, is it boring?

Speaker 3 (13:02):
I might, I just can't remember how.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Well you do. You have to develop a different side
of yourself when you're used to having so many words
at your disposal and suddenly you don't have them. You
have to be very you're very gestural, and you suddenly
become a mime artist, which is appropriate for Paris.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
And then at what point did you start to become
a storyteller?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
I did.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I write a script with my one of my best
friends about that experience in Paris, Augusta Miller, and we
worked on that for a few years.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
And I think it was just I was.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Like nineteen and you know, I'd made maybe probably I
was like twenty one, I'd made like four short films,
and I just couldn't understand why I couldn't get a
feature off the ground, like now you know, it takes
like ten years and we're going to all the markets
in cann and I really, you know, wanted to make
that film.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
And then I met Michael White there.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
And I guess my experience of the documentary I wasn't
interested in film school in it really at all, and
I am fascinated by people and not knowing about topics
and things because I guess I never went to university.
So for me, I always see it as like a
study of something, and I just found Michael this interesting
character that I want to know more about. And it
was like always heay to people making documentaries like jumping

(14:16):
out a plane. If you've got the access and you've
got a camera, any kind of camera, you can start storytelling.
Whereas you know, making a film you've got to like
get a script, you got to get everyone attached, you
got to raise all the money before it kind of
starts and you start filming. So for me, it was
like Michael White was like the next logical step to
just kind of be creative and yeah, tell a story.

(14:37):
And so that's how I've kind of then shifted into
the documentary world.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
You've had a lot of intense spirits, but I just
want to get this right. You will jump from Deadlock
to Heartbreak High. You're doing the Zimmerman fashion films and
also you're working on Auto by Auto at the same time.
What was that.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Period like, I think for me, Yeah, coming back to
Australia after living in LA for like three and a
half years, and all of a sudden I got Bump
And it was just when COVID started. I think I'd
been offered a story that was like a kind of
a whole thing on SBS or Bump, and I spoke
to my friend Shanna Murphy and she said, do Bump
because it's you're going to do the middle block and
you'll show people that you can just come in and

(15:17):
direct a block of TV. And then I had this
film seriously read that was about to go and she
was like, and you'll be so well oiled because it'll
be like fast TV and then you'll be like on
the film and I yeah, finished the film and then
went straight onto Amazon like Sketch Comedy, straight into Heartbreak High,
straight into Deadlock, then Yes, straight into Artful Dodger, straight

(15:38):
back into like Ladies anyway, it went on went on
for the last five years, but there was this period
that was Yeah, actually ended up getting COVID in the
in the four days I had off, but I was
on heartbreak high. I'm doing the I've done the start
and I was doing the end of it. I was
doing the sound mix of my film. I was slipping
in and not telling anyone while I was in post
and pre on heartbreak high that I was going to
do this one day hey shoot for Zimmerman and I

(15:59):
was trying to interview all the last people for the
documentary on Zoom and I had COVID as well, So that.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Was that was a hectic. Yeah, that was a hectic time.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
But when you or doing those jobs at once, like,
how do you nourish yourself?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Like I did take care of myself.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, like very well, Like I think I yeah, I
think I've just realized in the last few weeks, I
was like, I kind of really want to have some
fun again.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
And you know, that's why I was great going not
to the Actor Awards, I just going.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
To dinner with friends or going to like a few
events and parties that I haven't been to and just
getting you know, that's why I kind of really want
to go away again because that was always my way
of getting some kind of creating first or like feeling
an inspiration again.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
So it's been hard. I've been very I'm very tunnel
vision though.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
So when I work, you know, like I kind of
work all weekend and you know, work nights, and you know,
I don't have kids and don't have a partner, so
it's kind of like I am able to make that
sacrifice and I love working, like you know, I just yeah,
I am someone who's kind of always been driven by
work first, and that makes me, you know, feel good.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Your link with fashion is one of the things that
I find so surprising because there's a real groundedness in
you that I also see in your mum Sue that
you show really beautifully in the docco. But it's not
something that you normally associate with fashion because fashion is
sort of seen as being aloof maybe you know, it's

(17:26):
never basic and it's always kind of lofty, and yet
you're so immersed it's become a seamless part of your
repertoire as well.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I'm so unfashionable, Like I literally wear black out of
our shorts and a black t shirt every day and
shay sneakers are.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
They'll be fashion. I've always been interested.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
In fashion, not as much as Dad, Like Dad would
spend the whole day like flinting this out for an event,
but I did.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
I kind of thought about it all when I went.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Zimmerman took me over last year when they had one
of Dad's prints and they put it on a dress
and they kindly, just so awesome invited me to Paris
for the show and the dress opened their Paris Fashion
Week collection, And yeah, I remember being really nervous going
to the event because I was like, well, I know,
I was really gonna take my photo anyway, but I
was like sitting in the front row and I was only, God,
it's Paris Fashion Week. It's like, you know, serious, like

(18:18):
they take it any more serious.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
But then when I thought about all the people that like,
you know, I like or whatever, it's like fashion really is,
you know, personal, and it's your own thing because you
always have that thing of going, oh I should wear that,
or you know that's kind of what's in at the
moment or whatever, but really your tastes and fashion and
they're the people that, like, you know, in the street
style or whatever. All the people who end up being

(18:41):
fashion icons are the ones like even the guy kind
of namely just won the Oscar for Best Costume Design,
like his outfit on the Red carpet.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I was like, I don't know who that is, but
that is the best outfit.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
And then he won for best Costume and I was
like nice, But like that kind of individual, you know,
take on something is is I don't know what I
guess fashion.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
Is, and it's it is a yeah, it's a completely
different world.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
And I actually was so inspired watching Nikki's immim and
backstage because you know, because she's such a hard worker,
like she goes from collection to collection, and she was
getting the collection ready and it was about to show
the next day and I was just there kind of
like doing some bts and stuff and just watching her,
and she was like, my brain's already onto the next project.
And I was like, that's so interesting because when I
direct TV, I'm so immersed in the show I'm doing.
But once I'm probably two weeks into the shoot, my

(19:24):
brain is ready creatively, so the next show, like I'm
kind of like the train, like we're riding, you know,
we're on the train and it's going and it's like
we're you know, doing stuff along the way, but everything's
kind of I've done all the prep and everything's kind
of in motion.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
And then my other brain's going, well, what else can
we do? You know?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
What else is that?

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Thinking about that dress? Now?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
This is the dress that you ended up wearing to
the actors. Yeah, it's got your dad's art on it.
It's the most spectacular dress.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
It was just a yeah were you coincidence where I'd
posted a photo dad's one day on Instagram Stories and
Nikki called me and goes, what is that? And I
was like, oh, something Dad did and she was like, well, oh,
it's kind of like really to.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Do with my new collection.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
And then we started talking and you know, because we
didn't really hang out much during those COVID I did
four big shows for them, and there's you know, it's
such a machine as like, you know, twour people who
work on it.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
There's people doing content, people doing this.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I was curely just directing the Runway show and so
she's so busy and stuff. So I've become really good
friends with them and they're such a great they're such
a great family. She's such an amazing you know, the
whole holes in them family are just incredible what they've done.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
How did you first get involved with them?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Evolved through a friend who was like who became a
friend as someone who reached out on Instagram and they
were producing I think the set design this company called Riser, Yeah,
and it kind of came about and I was, yeah,
just thinking, oh, that could be really interesting because it
was such a different working with big set design and
pieces and five cameras at once, which is very much
like playing soccer, like how to move all the cameras

(20:54):
so that they don't see each other, and it's like
a different you know. I really like different art forms
like that. That's why I like commercials or like short
films like you know, fashion, documentary features, TV. Like it's
all a different kind of race, you know, It's like
doing athletics. That's how I explained. It's like, you know,
I like to one hundred meter, you know, but I
also like fifteen hundred.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
That's not all of my conversation with Graciotto. After this
quick break, we talk about when Gracie realized she was
making a different film to the one she thought she
was making. We'll be right back. Well, also, I would

(21:35):
imagine it's a funny feeling walking onto a set when
the set is your house and your home and the
subject is your dad, and you're kind of opening up
that aspect of your life.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, it was interesting because I guess on the doco
I shot, like, I was a bit embarrassed on the
cinematographer on it because I shot most of the documentary.
But I had a different relationship with dad obviously than
a camera person. So a lot of the greatest stuff
we should I shot or whatever it was on the iPhone,
you know, So that was an interesting medium as well,
like watching documentaries and kind of who's done iPhone footage? Well,

(22:11):
because it's such a like I say to young filmmakers,
it doesn't matter what you shoot on like you know,
they say that the dad only admits.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
He killed someone once, Like you gotta get round of it.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, so there's some kind of beauty and that more
fly on the wall style stuff. I mean, Yeah, it
was interesting seeing it back at the film Festival and yeah,
because it's just yeah, it's just kind of like I mean,
I post a lot of Instagram stories, so people who
like follow me on Instagram kind of have a bit
of an insight into, you know, my life with Dad.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
But yeah, it was such a long journey making that film.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
It was the iPhone footage probably was part of the
reason also that it felt so intimate.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah, and really it was like, I mean a huge testament.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like Karen Johnson, my editor, and Cody green wooded to
Color Donahue, my producers, like they really like if it
wasn't for them, the film would have never because you know,
it was about a man. It was about a father
doing a one man show. That's what I want to do.
Like I'm not I'm not someone who likes I'm quite
a vulnerable person. I don't like to ever have a
cry or tell anyone my feelings or give anyone a hug.

(23:11):
Everyone knows that on set, like they might an actor
might get a hug at the end of a shoot
because I'm like, well done.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I'm not like a huge, you know, feelings person.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
So it was really like, all of a sudden, I
was like, wow, this is like a really raw feelings
and they really you know, and Karen spent months by
herself really crafting that documentary because like I was busy
obviously working on TV, and I wanted to do the
film and I wanted to finish it, and I wanted
to be part of it and all of that.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
But I also was kind of like.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Living it as well, so it wasn't like, you know,
it wasn't like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to go
over and like shoot some more stuff like because it Yeah,
it was a weird thing of kind of kind of yeah,
I guess what mentally, I guess expression I was going
through at the time. Like I was talking to Mum
last night about it, because I was thinking, oh, you know,
there was someone who got up at Sydney Film Vessel

(23:59):
and said, oh, she should have stoped filming at the
end when he was sick, and.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
You know whatever.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
And I was like, oh, maybe they're going to ask
me about that tomorrow on the podcast. And we were
just talking about it when I was driving last night.
I said, you know, it's just because like, until you
really go through Alzheimer's as a family, everyone's experience is
different and it's really hard to work out the miles,
not the milestones, so that's the worst word to use
for it, but work out the milestones of where that

(24:23):
person is, like if I look at the end of
the film now and Dad's kind of asking me who
I am, and he's a bit confused, but he kind.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Of knows I'm someone.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Now I'm going to go see Dad in a minute,
and he has no idea who I am.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
And he can barely walk anymore.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
But like you know, when I was in Darwin filming
last year, he went from walking around the park one
day to basically never walking again. And you kind of go, oh,
that happened. That happened really suddenly. You can see that
that milestone, you know, was like now that his bed
there's been moved downstairs and he lives in the living
room at.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
The pink pong table.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know, that happened, like yeah, and that happened like overnight,
whereas there's other stuff where it kind of you know,
would take years to figure out. You go, oh, he totally,
he totally gets it. And then you're like, oh, no, yeah,
he's really not understanding anything. So I think it's such
a personal different journey.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
As you said, you were starting to make a doc
about your dad who wanted to do a one man play.
It was kind of a it was a really gorgeous
you know collusion of your skills and his skills, and
this is something we're going to do together. And through
the course of the film it becomes apparent that this
is really not going to be possible. At what point

(25:30):
did you realize that you were telling a very different
story than you thought you were going to tell.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
I feel that we finished filming probably in twenty nineteen twenty,
and now I just got really busy on TV for
like two years, and we took them like I took
a break from it because it was kind of like, yeah,
what is like we were originally going to maybe film
some segments of this monologue at the play he wanted
to do maybe we could do something like that, and
I kept trying to, you know, say that to Dad,

(25:57):
but he wasn't interested in that because he hadn't come
to the realization he couldn't do it. Like we both
were kind of coming to that realization. But as I
say in the film, he would push through and do
anything for me. And likewise, so was this, you know, Mike,
we said, we're not very good at feelings. It was
this awkward kind of thing where it was like, you know,
this season't going to happen. This play's not going to happen,
but I do want to still make the film of him,

(26:17):
and I want him to be, you know, proud that
he's in it, and I don't want him to think
it's a failure because it's not what we set out
to do. And then it was kind of after you know,
COVID and everything, it was you know, quite obvious that
then that was never going to happen. And then it
was like this race to kind of just keep madly
filming because yeah, so he would not forget who we

(26:37):
were or something like. For me, it was kind of like,
let's oh, I just want to like, you know, capture
everything about him now because it's going, it's going.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
I can see it like just disappearing.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Was there a distance in you as Graciotto who's making
a docco versus Graciotto, the daughter who's watching her dad
in this decline?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
No, Like, I guess there is a distance in it
because because we knew each other so well, and then
as it goes on, he doesn't like kind of by
the end. That was the last thing I shot actually
was I went and he had an air tag and
I was I think I was on a heartbreak high
in Post and I had it on my phone because
Mum hadn't set it up, and he's the hot Chips

(27:20):
and I could see where he was because he would
go out and just walk and get lost. And I
saw he was in like Broadway, which is so far
from our house. And I called Mum and she was
at work, and so I just got in the car
from Post and was like, I've got to go find him.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
And I had to go.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
And he was just walking out of the street and
I was like, I remember that when I was like that,
he was not really going to be sure who I
am out of context, and I pulled up and said, hey,
I think you know you should get like a you know,
AIG guy came.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Kid in the car, like, I think you kind of should.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Come in the car with me, and I had a
bottle of water for him, and he was like kind
of just yeah, really confused, and we drove home.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
And then that's when I got home and he goes,
who is everyone?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
And I was like, right, okay, I'm going to show you.
And i'd been watching a Louis the Row documentary a
few times. He did a whole series on dementia and Alzheimer's,
which is quite interesting because it's like I would watch
it at different points throughout the year and go, oh,
Dad's like kind of the first early pat and then
now he's there and there's this amazing woman who's like,
you just think, God that she's totally fine. She's got

(28:15):
a kid, she's quite young, and she they get her
to draw a clock and she just draws a circle
and puts the number three in the corner of the
piece of paper.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, oh wow, you know, and she sadly our you know,
best friends we grew up with. Their mother got it
really young and she's you know, she's probably about five
years more advanced than dad.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
And that's been. So that's been.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
You know, they were at the premiere, which is really
nice because we went to primary school together and stuff,
and so yeah, I've been able to kind of I
had been able to watch what was happening with Janet
and seeing that that's what you know, Yeah, it's an inevitable,
terrible decline. That's like, yeah, now you're going to take
that away from them, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, yes, And also it's so multifaceted because they're losing themselves.
But along the way they're also losing you. Yeah, and
those moments must just be very confronting.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, I think as I've been away a lot as well,
like I would fly back on the jobs to see
down every few weekends. But I think when we were
shooting Deadlock season two in Darwin, and you know, it
went from him being able to walk up the stairs
to his bedroom overnight to like my brother having a
movie his bed downstairs and kind of going he'll never
get to the staircase again, and go, I might want
to go up here.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
That's that's gone now.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
For me, I always say, it's like, you know, it's
like two hundred different light bulbs of everything you can do,
and they just start to shut off and you go, oh, right, great,
those thirty light bulbs just went off now and now
he's you know, he's not in a wheelchair yet. We
have nurses who come every day and he walks down
the road.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
But yeah, he now can't really and he talks to mum.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
He can say a sentence when he wants to, like
when he wants to tell you to go away, or
you know, when he's like because you don't.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Want to invade him, we'll get too close to him anymore.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
You know, he can say something when he wants to,
but at the moment he's he doesn't really form sentences anymore.
So that's been like a huge, huge, sad decline in
the past year since the film's come out.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I remember reading someone talking about their mum with dementia
and saying, it's like watching and die a thousand times.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yes, yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
I think every Christmas, I'm like, oh, every Birthday with him,
I kind of got I didn't think he'd be here.
So now we're just like, yeah, mum's really determined to
keep him at home, which we're all supporting, and she's
you know, as I've said, she's like a hero.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
She looks after him and.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Oh, she's incredible, and she's slowly starting to be able
to like kind of get a bit of her life
back in that way, Like now you can kind of
leave him for you know, an hour and come back
to him, and he sits in his chair all day.
There's no worry about his safety of like walking out
the door or anything like that anymore. So, you know,
but hopefully it mean soon we'll get to a stage

(30:48):
when you know, he doesn't go to the park anymore.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
And it'd be nice. I think that's the next step.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
When he's officially in the wheelchair, that will then be
able to wheel him out and you know that will
be a whole new chapter for him.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
For the moment, we're just trying to keep him walking.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Gray. See the cats your dad's cats, can you say
in the doc ow and it's I think it will
resonate with so many people because you're you said, never
had a computer, didn't have a mobile phone, so kind
of lost touch with the with a lot of friends
and a lot of the outside world. But his greatest
loves are his cats.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yeah, I mean it's true.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
And like Boga, I've got a little sticker with Boga
Bogat goes.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
I'm someone made them for me, so I put them
on all the camera for me.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, and like Boga, like they're animals are amazing.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Like I know peop always say dogs are amazing. Cats
are amazing too.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
But they know when someone done well, and they know
when like in Boga, for someone who's not a service dog,
she's a cat. She waits for him, She walks with him,
like when he used to walk around by himself. She
would walk next to him like she is someone that
like really protects him and she goes to bed with him.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
It's like her routine every night. And that's you know,
part of.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
The reason he's not in a home is because Mom
was like, I just can't take her away from the cats,
like you can get these kind of like Alzheimer's cats
that are like a toy that's kind of vibrating and
what he looked at those, but it's like, no, he
loves his cat and.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
They know him so well. There he's familiar.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
He still knows he calls them both Bella or Bobo
at the moment.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, he still he still knows their name, Mum. And
it will never forget my brother. He's always like Eddie,
you know.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
And then when you are navigating, like you said someone
at the was at the film festival who said you
should have stopped filming or whatever when your dad got sick,
how do you discuss as a family Because in the
Docco and your dad, who's just such a naturally flamboyant
and extrovert and beautiful, mischievous character, and you have a

(32:50):
really lovely conversation with him about vanity where you say
to him, you know, do you think you're vain, and
he goes, of course, I'm vain. And so later on
in the doco when we see him post his hip surgery,
and that's a real moment of fudding cruelty really for

(33:12):
all of us when we realize, oh fuck, it's this
is it? How do you as a family, how did
you decide what to show, what to share.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's interesting because that scene, we weren't aware he had
Alzheimer's then, So when I was shooting him in the
hospital he went in for an operation. If you go
in for a hip operation or anything under general anesthetic
and you have Olzheimers can really rapidly increase it. And
so it's interesting because all that footage that I'd shot,
like we weren't aware at the time, and watching any
of that footage fact that there was that that's you know,

(33:48):
when you see it in context over the few years,
you go, oh my god, like it's so obvious. Like
I see friends of mine, now I know all people's parents,
and you know, I'm not going to say to them,
I think your mum's got our Shimber's or your dad,
but I can kind of see the signs of really
early on things that people aren't aware of yet because
I've gone through it. But that scene, actually, I mean,
I kind of regret, but I get it. There was
a scene that the network. There was a funny scene

(34:09):
where he described doing a pooh to me and it
went on for like six minutes, and it's just hilarious
because he's like, it's so tragic that he's like sitting
there and he's like, you know, and he's talking about
this pood about how it looks like a chocolate gelato
or whatever, but it is kind of epidome of comedy
and tragedy and it's this in a way. I was
just like, when you know, people who had watched that screen,

(34:30):
agencies and stuff were like worried about that scene. I
took it out because I was like, I don't want
anyone to ever think that I would ever do anything
to hurt Dad or show him like not in the
best light, but in my true heart, I knew that
he would find that funny because that's why he was.
He was still trying to make me laugh and still
trying to engage in his funny way and not make
it sad. So it's interesting because I don't think it

(34:51):
was the scene that people were talking about, but there
was this whole other section to it that got cut
out and then I mean that was like that was
actually in twenty and eighteen that footage happened, so it
was obviously amplified by the operation. And then he ended
up kind of mentally, I guess with the Alzheimer's getting
to that state that he's like in now. But really,
you know, I stopped filming in twenty twenty I think

(35:14):
three that last shot of him at the end of
the film, and then it was kind of going, well,
we wanted to come out, like I really want to
finish the film while he was still alive, and then
it was like this push to kind of go, you know,
we could keep filming, but like the quality of life
and the sadness about the disease, like I feel like
it ended at the right time.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Like I don't put as much you.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Know, I put nice videos up because people are so
interested in Dabt on instagramly like he looks so chic
with his hat on and he's sitting in his chair.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
But I'm definitely not filming.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
As much of him anymore because it's it kind of
feels like that's you know, we got to the end
of the film, and that was you know, how I
want to remember him.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
When you refer to your dad's sense of humor, that
is just such an underlying nourishing thing in the film,
is that it's not obviously someone's decline is sad, but
we are all going one way or the other. But
the beauty of his humor and his engagement with you

(36:10):
is very uplifting in an extremely painful way.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, okay, well, thank you. Like trying to think what
the question was.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Well, I was it was really more about how you
discuss as a family, like what bits you're going to
leave in or what bits you're going to leave out?
Is it a family discussion or a project for you?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
We definitely sent not the final cut, but what was
getting close to the final cut I sent to Miranda
and Mum because I think the moment was a.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Really hard process.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Like I think, you know, she didn't really want to
be part of it because she's so behind the scenes
person and I think, you know, there's a lot of
anger that comes with Alzheimer's as well, and she copped
it for a few years from Dad, and people, you know,
don't realize that that, like they go. You know, they
can go through a very angry phase and usually take
it out on the person who cares about them the most.
So she had a really tough journey with him and
then it kind of turned and now like it's so sweet,

(37:03):
like the only person he care, like, the only person
he knows is Mum, and he gets so happy to
see her and she goes comes in and is in
the kiss and he's like a little you know, he's
like a little boy, Like he's like, you.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Know, he'll go Mama, like you know, because he doesn't
know who any one is, but he knows Mum.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
And so she yeah, it was actually really amazing because
she I don't ever see him, like a photo of
her once like that was in a frame of her
and dad in.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
The bedroom in a bikini or whatever.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
And then I finally got her to find her archive
of photos, and I think that was and she just
turned seventy, not that she'd like me to say that,
but and I was over Easter, like when her birthday is,
and I was scanning them furiously, like three thousand photos
on my Easter break. And I think for her it
was actually this really new love affair with Dad and
like actually going. You know, people don't reflect on that
stuff until someone's dead normally, so I think she got

(37:47):
to do that as well and go back and like
look at you know, when they met and like their
whole life together and have this kind of you know,
understanding of why she's put up.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
You know, she's she's still going with.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
This because you know, a lot of people say to
her and friends, they're like, you should just put him
in a home, like it's not fair on you, and
she's like, this is what I want to do and
you have to respect it. That's what she wants to
do in her life moment. She wants to take care
of him, which is so nice. I'm not as nice
as that. You know a lot of people Aren'ta's like,
you know, she just thinks about people before she thinks
about herself.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Coming out, we talk about the moment Gracie won the
Actor Award for Otto by Otto, she finally won Don't
go Anywhere, and even in the course of your your
family that you are a family, and yet Miranda has

(38:43):
a different mother and then you and your brother Eddie
came along, like your mom is obviously capable of really
creating a world that brings everybody in.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah, she was very like wanting to have her career
and kind of had two kids and decided she was
going to be, you know, a full time mum and
and that's all she's done like most of her life,
where she could have probably done really great other things,
but you know, she's very proud of that, and there
was great for us to have her around.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Was she she was not at the awards at the.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Actors No, yeah, no, she wasn't at.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
The Actors and you gave her a beautiful shout out.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
Oh it really we honestly really did not think we
were going to win.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
And I had thought the night before I thought, oh,
I only one of those idiots if we win that
doesn't have a speech.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
But I was like like, I was like, oh, it.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Was just like I didn't even want to go there
thinking about writing something because it was like too emotional,
and then to go to the emotions that like not
weir and then be like, oh, I just wrote this
speech in my head. So we were just like down
in drinks and like my doco team and i'd ha
like a really great time. And then it was the
cheer that we heard when they announced they were announcing them.

Speaker 3 (39:44):
That was like really big, and I was like, oh god.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
And then I saw the camera and I know were
five camera setups, so they only had four cameras and
so they won't get a right to one every no
beerneath and then the other cameras went straight around to
Miranda just before it, and then I went, oh, okay,
it's happening. And then I just you know, I just said,
I round up like a football player, because I just
was like if.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
I stopped, I'll start crying.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
And you start like Miranda a kiss on the way
up to went.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
And grabbed it. I was looking at it. That thing.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
God. I didn't even like shape the people who presented it,
but I think I just was like it was. It
was actually like we were like producers and I was saying,
we were like, it's an amazing feeling, like it's a
huge adrenaline rush and I've been nominated before and you
have the adrenaline rush, and then it's kind of this
sense of relief because you're like, oh, I didn't win,
I don't have to get up there.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
It's all good. I can just enjoy my night now.
But yeah, we were just on a high. The whole night.
I had a great time up there.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
You enjoyed your night in a different way.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Yeah, I went, We did all the press and stuff,
and then I was like, oh my god, I need
a col mum, but I didn't have my phone did
to go back through and so I facetimed her off
some random camera person's phone and I.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Was like whoa and she was like hello Sue speaking.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
I was like you know, and then it was yeah,
and then we were just like, I mean it was Yeah,
it took like a week to come down from that high,
but yeah, we're very.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, thrilled.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
There was a video of you beforehand saying autos don't.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Win well, like I feel like we don't, like we're
going through dad's career.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
I was like, oh, I didn't win for like a
win for Blissle.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I think that or yeah it's interesting, So I mean, yeah,
we'll take it.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
We'll take it.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Because I think it is an extraordinary piece of work.
You know, where does it sit internationally? Like does it
get to go to like into other festival competition? Does
it travel the world?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Now?

Speaker 1 (41:28):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Really?

Speaker 3 (41:29):
I think we're streamers as well.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
It's like it's standing with the streamer, so once it's
out on stream, you can't play festivals, which is something
that hopefully maybe in the future they things change. So
we got to play at Sydney Film Festival and then
it was coming out like a few days later. That
was the kind of league. So really it's kind of finished,
it's run, and yeah, it's been like that's why it's
been good to have a few weeks off, a few
times of reflection because I am very like, you know,

(41:51):
made the Australian soccer team. Then I gave up, you know,
like I was kind of like, well maybe I should like,
maybe that's it. Maybe I'll just do something else. Now
I'm not direct, but I think it's.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Now just trying to think about really think about what,
you know.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
What project I want to attached to, what I want
to do next, and yeah, try I think it was just,
you know, I think years I've been so excited to
be off jobs and I've been really lucky to have
taken jobs that ended up being really good shows and
with really great actors and everything.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
And now I'm just kind of like I have.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Got a bit of the bug to go overseas again,
not necessarily to live there, or anything, but just to
kind of have a little bit of fun.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Well what would that be? What would the fun be?

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I used to travel by myself all the time, like
I think I would. I don't think I've been in
a city longer than like three weeks. I'm very I'm
not good at like commitment or life I want to
say relationships, but like I always kind of you know, I
always dated people lift in other countries, so I could, like,
you know, I really enjoy my independent space, and I
actually really enjoy traveling by myself. I always like to

(42:52):
go somewhere like to a film, veestl or something where
there's a reason to kind of be be there, even
if it's for a day. And now I'm just, yeah,
kind of thinking about going. I don't know, I just
feel like I really wanted European summer and just to
kind of again yeah, yeah, and I'm going to Greece,
I think in June. So I'm finishing on up or
Dodger and then yeah, I just thought I'll see what

(43:12):
comes up for the second part of the inn. Every year,
I've had the whole year or a year and a
half of just going showing the show and knowing what's
mapped out, which is really good in a lot of
ways because you kind of go, oh, I know what
I'm doing, and I, you know, I get frustrated, like
if I don't know the plans. So yeah, I'm trying
to just like yeah, and so I've just been doing
personal training and cooking lessons and yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
And do you think these like this desire to extend
yourself personally into yourself rather than just through work, the cooking,
the training, the time at home, the renovation. Do you
think it's come about as a result of the film
the doco that you've processed certain aspects without even realizing

(43:56):
it about yourself and the way that we live life,
the way that you're living life.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, I think it's been a long journey with the
documentary and I think, yeah, it's kind of like I'm
ready for the next chapter. Like I know Dad's still
here at the moment, but it's kind of like it
does feel like the next chapters coming, which I'm excited
by and I'm excited he's still here for that next chapter.
But yeah, it's like I kind of get you know,

(44:21):
like I said that book, I read like I do
want to live forever and I like I you know,
I've packed a lot into my life and will continue
to do so. Like I'm not someone to just sit
around and do nothing, but you know, I get so
inspired by people and things and places. I don't know,
Like I was meant to maybe a big going to
Asian and the job got canceled, but I was meant
to be going to go into Beijing, and I was
excited because I I'll go around, I'll go to Seoul

(44:43):
and I'll just go. And I nearly booked a ticket
this week, just before I start work next week, because
I just thought, I really just need to, i don't know,
just see things.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
So I'll be trying to do that in Sydney.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, right, Well that's it sometimes. And also when you're
working at that intensity, you're the city in which you
live is as foreign a destination as any other that
you can encounter.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yeah, and that's why I think the skills that I
haven't learned over the past few years is the hiat exercise.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Like I think the three things.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
You know, my friend Lara has a cooking business, nutrition business,
and she does these lessons on FaceTime. I've been cooking, like,
you know, steak with like source Diane like light lunches, snacks, smoothies,
and it's been like I'm just like, oh my god,
how did I not know how to cook a potato?

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Or like, how did I not know how to like
handle a piece of meat?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
And then my friend Joe joh my god on Instagram
She's an amazing makeup artist and I paid her to
teach me to do.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
My own makeup. And I was like those those two things.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
And then the personal trainer of was personal trainer A
Lane is like just awesome because it's like I've been
going I was going to the gym in Brisboe last
year on deadlock and you know, from soccer, like I
know how to train, but like to specifically train on
certain things that work for my body. I was just
like I can't and you, my friend's are like you
love structure. I can't believe. And I was like those
three sets of skills because I'm, you know, at thirty seven,
I live alone. I was like, they've just been brushed.

(45:59):
They were brushed aside for the last five years and
now it was all catchy up to me. And I
was like I really, you know, so in a way,
I've kind of taken a month for myself, which has
been nice.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
And what do you think of yourself or I think
of myself? I don't know. Can you make yourself in
a different way when you have time around quite entertained
by my Like I can entertain myself quite well.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I enjoy I do. I really enjoy in my own company.
I'm always like, as soon as you know on set,
I'm sorry, I love being around two hudred people, and
then I actually really love all of a sudden being
around no one. And then as soon as like you know,
there's too many people trying to contact me or hang
out or whatever, I get overwhelmed and I'm like, oh,
I just want everyone to go away. And then after
twenty four hours when everyone leaves me alone, I'm like,
where is everyone?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Where all my friends? I want to hang out? You know.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
So I have this kind of like energy of like
I'm very present, I think when I'm in the moment,
and I have you know, I'm really lucky to have
a lot of friends. And sometimes I feel bad because
I haven't seen my friends for a year. But it's like,
I guess, you know, I'm not like a big hangout
with a big group kind of person.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
But when I see someone it's like intense and it's like, you.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Know, yeah, it does take a certain sort of friend
to be a friend to someone who's working at that
intensity that they just have to trust that after a
year or two years or whatever, you'll be back.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
And I you know, I've missed all my friends overseas
because I really haven't been away for so long. So
you know, there's people from you know, COVID that I
just like, like they were my best friends before COVID
and I was always in La or in Paris, and
you know, now it's like, what'sapped them every a few
months and send them a voice message.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I want to ask you because you worked on Heartbreak High,
which was you know, groundbreaking in so many ways and
so popular around the world. But because you've been working
in the industry for since you were so young, it
kind of feels like you're older than you are in
terms of your maturity when you were working with such

(47:53):
a young cast, a coolsy cast as well.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
They're very under gust yeah, weren't they.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
What did it feel like being with them?

Speaker 2 (48:02):
There's a big one show that I've been on that
I was like the average age on set, like I
am always like uptil puble. Now, I've always been like
the youngest, and especially being the gener I've always loved
been around older people. It was interesting because it was
kind of like I used my school diary when I
pitched on it. We had a train map of all
the people who hooked up with different guys on the train,

(48:24):
and so I kind of, you know, i'd use that
in my pitch deck as a kind of you know,
that was like two thousand and two or whatever. Yeah,
but they were all like, they're also cool, like they're
such cool kids. I would say, kids that are like
older now and stuff. But there was a great you know,
I think. I think there's a lot of people who
make mistakes always say oh, I've been in the industry

(48:44):
much longer than this young girl, and you know, blah
blah blah, like and I hate all that because I go,
I can learn so much from a sixteen year old
when I watch TikTok all the time. Do I keep
up with a pat as I can from you know,
a six year old or eighty year old, like I think,
you know, my school teacher for band in high school
always said that's why music was so great in the

(49:05):
band because you made friends vertically, not horizontally like people
go to school or people going to the industry and
they go, well, I'm thirty seven, and you know, so
this is what I know, or like this fifty six
year old woman knows more because she's been around longer,
and it's like bullshit, Like this young girl is doing
amazing things. Is also someone you can learn from. So
I think for me, like, I just learned so much
from them, and you know, obviously had a very paternal

(49:28):
like maternal and maternalness in the way that I can
be of been very protective of them in the industry
as well, like you know, because knowing that they were
going to come out and be quite overnight like well known,
which happened to them, and you know, the producers and
have a very great kind of maintaining all that. And

(49:48):
it was so nice to go back on the second
season and see that, yes, their lives had completely changed,
but they hadn't necessarily, you know, they hadn't changed.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
They yeah, had been like a learning curve for them.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And I don't know, because I've never been as well
known as they would have been at that age, so
you know, I think, but I have been out with
them a few times when like, you know, walking down
the street and people like when I first came out,
we're just calling out to them, and I was like,
that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
I can't imagine that.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I really like, you know, I know that sometimes if
I go somewhere or walk somewhere, but like, mainly I'm
pretty you know, I can just live my life, which
I think, you know, must be hard for people who
are famous.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Yes, Oh it's brutal and often becoming famous. You know,
they say that you're set in stone at the age
at which you become famous, which explains I think why
some uber famous Hollywood actors are a little bit atrophied
when it comes to development.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, totally, yeah, and I'd be very lucky in that regard.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
And also like directors, like, no one really you know,
like no one really kind of like wants to follow
their lives around is you know, it's always about the actors.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
This is a big question, but what have you learned?
Do you think about life in the context of your
father's journey and the journey that you've gone on with him.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
I'm very early on like the game of life that
you only have one shot at life, and you only
have one time that you're going to be thirty six
and thirty seven, thirty eight and thirty nine. So I'm
very like not about wasting time and always up for everything.
I think Dad's you know, the big takeaway for me
for Dad is it's like a really boring word. But
Dad is so kind and I think, you know, you

(51:28):
can be known for being the most incredible Hollywood actor
or famous for this, or doing great work or whatever,
but if you're not a kind person. So I think
that's been such a big lesson, like hearing, you know,
people I work on set like a grip might come
past and go, loved your dad. He was so kind
to me, you know when I was starting out or
a runner who's now a producer or you know, all

(51:49):
those kind of things. I just think it's such a
nice legacy for such a boring word to be left
with that he was such a kind man.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
That helps me when sometimes I'll think something in my
head and go just be kind.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well, you know, there's sometimes you have to be unkind
to be kind.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of myself as a verse it.
But I think you can always, you know, be like
strive for more kindness.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Well, it's interesting because Otto Bioto is very kind. I
think it's very kind. And I think it's also because,
as I said earlier, we know the trajectory of life
and we're all take us except for you, who's going
to live forever, but that we know I.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Get killed today.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I do have a psychic sense that I'm trying to
understand more about now in life. Like if I think
of someone like, they will text me or they will
appear in my algorithm even though I haven't looked.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
At their things the name. So I do have it,
and I do have something.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Sometimes it happens where my wake up and kind of
my brain goes, just be careful, and I'll stop at
the lights and like not run the orange light, and
a car will run the other light, and I'll be like,
and I am waiting for the day. Someone just goes
cut like I'm in the Truman Show, and I go, oh,
I knew something was going on, Like you know, I'm
very into like not reincarnation, but like into the other life.

(53:13):
And one of my best friends who passed away, I
always kind of thought of her as like we living
in a game and she's just in the next level
of the game. And so I do think about that
quite a bit, and I think maybe I have been
here before. She Now it sounds a bit woo woo,
but I feel like I have been here before. But
I'm not sure as what animal? Do you think it
was an animal?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Really? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Yeah, I'm not a person. You don't think it was
a person?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
No, I think it was either like a really old
man or an animal. Yeah, but yeah, I'm kind of
I'm interested in that side of stuff because I'm not.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
Religious.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Well that is religious, Yeah, that's probably the definition of religions.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
I'm not into into heaven and hell and like whatever.
I'm more just like, where does the spirit go? Like
when Michael White died, I felt his spirit on my
back for about a month.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
I felt like I could i him.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
And I went to a crazy dinner party at Cheer
Coppola's or whatever, and this Disney young actress just started
they were doing a seance. It was something, and then
she just turned around and started screaming at me. She goes,
You've got something on your back, And I was like, oh, yeah,
so I'm very into the spiritual. Yeah, I actually in
Melbourne recently, stay in the place that had something bad happening.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Then was when David Lynch started.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
He was such a huge inspiration to me and I
had I was watching his films, but it was the
layout of the house and it felt very trapped and
I think it was actually my body resetting over the
five years back to like you know, two point zero
version of me or something was. It was like the
new software. I had to just go on this like
I never really get like I don't don't suffer from
depression or anything like that. I know, I know a

(54:53):
lot of people do, but like you know, maybe every
few years, I have like a low moment for like
you know, two weeks and then I kind of yeah,
it's like a reset.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
So I did that. I've resetted.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Reset in the concept of you on a different level
of the game. Do you think when you watched your
dad that he's on a different level of the game.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Like it's like he was a player that got inserted
in the Rock time. Here's a character from always has
been eighteen hundreds that like they went, oh, we forgot
to put him in the game. We'll put him in
nineteen forty and so yeah, you know, so he's like
cruising around as this kind of because he is like
a bit of an old soul.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Like my grandma died when I was on Ladies in Black.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
And we were all really close to her, and then
like we didn't tell Dad because like he wouldn't understand,
but he would just sometimes go, Nanny's here, like a
week after she died and look to the corner of
the room. And so he's kind of like a little
good luck charm. If I'm like, you know, wanting someone
a text me, I'll go and like rub his head
and like get good luck from him.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
So and Baz Luhman always found your dad a good
luck charm.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
I'm just so sweet because I did my first work
experience luckily with Bads, which he would never get me
to do again, because I was in high school and
it was on the Chanelle Ad and it was like
five hours of watching the understudy, like the person coming
in for the lighting for Nicole, who was beautiful in
this like male model, and I was like they should
just be in it there amazing, and then it was
like Nicole came in and you were like, how he's

(56:19):
get it and they were just getting ready to do
the shot, and I had like in my pocket of
my school shirt, I had a little flip phone and
it was off, but the alarm went off as he
said action and I was like, oh my god, my god,
my god. I turned it off. But then I was
back in the day on those phones. The alarm would
still go off. So they set up again for five minutes,
and then he someone came over and said, we're going

(56:40):
to take you to the costume department of THEO. And
he still wrote me, like, you know what, an amazing man,
Like he still wrote me a handwritten letter like he's incredible.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Like even when I interviewed.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Him, I reached out and you know, and he had
to cancel it. And it was the Oscars and he
was like nominated. There was all this stuff going on,
and I remember when it came through and they were like, look, bads,
it's going to have to reach schedule. So yeah, yeah,
of course, and they're like, he's so sorry, but he
could probably do it like four days time, and he was.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
In the minute. He's like, I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
I was in Italy and then I went here and
we're just about to do the oscars, but you know,
and I just thought, oh my god, like you've got
up in the books, Baz, like.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
You know, because he didn't have to do that for me,
Like it was just so kind.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Kind there is again.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Yeah, really boring word to be described by, but.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
A really good one, and all the better for people
who necessarily don't have it, do you know what I mean?
All they could do is dream of it. Yeah, Graciotto.
I look forward to seeing what you do in the
rest of your life when you live forever. Thank you
for your body of work. Yes, oh no, that's all right.
It's all right if I say it. It's all right
if I say it to you. Thank you for your

(57:43):
body of work. And thank you so much for sharing
your family, your dad, your mom with all of us,
and for sharing yourself with no filter.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
This was one of my favorite conversations with someone whose
family has had such a big but largely unspoken impact
on me and my consumption of, you know, arts life
in Australia. I loved her honesty, I loved her father,
I loved her family, I loved her mother, I loved

(58:19):
her sister. I loved all of her and I really
appreciate her sharing her family legacy with us, and it's
such a deeply vulnerable time. And if you want to
watch Otto Biotto, and I recommend it from the bottom
of my heart, will pop a link in the show notes.

(58:41):
The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, Senior
producer is Grace Rufrey. Sound design is by Jacob Brown.
And I'm your host, kateline Brook. Back with you next week.