May 7, 2025 • 53 mins
It’s been 18 months since Evelyn Jones burst onto our screens—fictional, yes, but her story couldn’t feel more real to the women who brought her to life.
In this special episode of No Filter, host Jessie Stephens—who is also a writer on the show and Mamamia’s Executive Editor—is joined by Mia Freedman, whose memoir Work, Strife, Balance inspired the hit Binge series Strife, along with Asher Keddie, who plays Evelyn, and executive producer Bruna Papandrea.
They reflect on Season 1, including Mia’s emotional spiral before the premiere, and give us a sneak peek at what’s to come in Season 2, dropping Thursday, May 8.
Together, these powerhouse creatives open up about what it means to be a woman in the media and entertainment industry today—the competition, the comparisons, the fear of cancellation, and the constant balancing act between public and private life.
And of course, they talk about ambition: what it costs, why it matters, and how the world still struggles when women dare to want more.
Season 2 of Strife premieres on Binge Thursday May 8th,.
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CREDITS:
Host: Jessie Stephens
Guest: Mia Freedman, Asher Keddie and Bruna Papandrea.
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hello there, I am Jesse Stevens and welcome to No Filter.
I know I'm not the voice you're used to, and
I too am disappointed not to hear the beautiful tones
of the brilliant Kaylane Brook, but I shoved her out
of her seed this week for a very special occasion.
It has been eighteen months since Australia was first introduced
(00:46):
to Evelyn Jones, the woman trying to build a digital
media company from the ground up while keeping her personal
life from falling apart. Evelyn is, of course, the main
character of the comedy drama series Strife, which broke first
day and first.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Week viewing records for Binge. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Strife is back for a second season, inspired by the
book works Balance by co founder and chief creative officer
of Mum and Maya, as well as the previous host
of No Filter, Maya Friedman. In this special episode, I'm
joined by Maya herself, actor Ashaketti, who plays Evelyn, and
(01:25):
Bruna Papendrea, executive producer and founder of production company Made
up stories. We reflect on season one, including Maya's personal
spiral around the premiere, and explore what's coming in season two,
which drops this Thursday, May eight. But more than that,
we unpack what it means to be a creative woman
(01:46):
in this industry, because so many of the storylines in
Strife mirror what happens in real life to all of
us as writers, produces, actors, and more broadly, as women.
We talk about the three c's, competition, comparison, and cancelation.
We dig into the tension between public and private life
in the digital age, something we all navigate, especially as
(02:09):
women whose experiences are off and up for public consumption.
And of course we talk about ambition. In a room
full of ambitious women, you can bet that these three
women had a lot to say about how the world reacts.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
When women want more. Here are Maya, Asher and Bruna.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Let's begin with the impact of season one, right because
that broke records for the most streamed show I think
on binge in Australia ever. Just from my mother, Ye, Bruna,
did you expect Strife to be that successful?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (02:47):
No, I know I always get asked this question. Did
you know something was going to be a hit.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
An, Well, you've clearly got a good instinct.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Yes, I haven't made anything that wasn't a hit. No,
that was a joke. No movies, not TV shows. Not
TV shows, that's right, not late, that's rude movies. Yes,
I mean again, I think we all made it because
we the audience for this show, and so because I
loved it so much, I felt quite strongly that women
(03:16):
particularly would really embrace the season and watch it kind
of and rewatch it. Even so, I was I surprised. Yes,
it's always just the most beautiful surprise when something does
so well.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
One of the key sort of themes of this season
of season two is competitiveness, Right, Brina, I'm sure you're
not competitive at all?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
A sure are you competitive?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Only as much as oh my god, I mean we
both competitive, let's be honest about this, but not in it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Not but actually not.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
At all with uh we meetach other. No, we're not
not at all with other women. I would I think
that it's safe to say I'm certainly not and I
never have been. Maybe as a teenager in my early
teen years at school, I may have felt a little
bit like I, you know, was insecure and wanted to
(04:11):
kind of be better than someone or have what they
had or whatever, that kind of competition. But I think
it's safe to say that these days now, as women,
we're not competitive. We're certainly not with each other, but
we're competitive in the sense that we want things to
be the best they can be. The shows that we make,
the content that we put out there, we want it
(04:32):
to be as authentic as possible and as compelling as possible. Yeah,
I mean that's competitive in a way.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It is.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
You know, I'm interested in whether the competitiveness ever gets
a little bit personal in terms of like having a
nemesis like people, because this is all about there's a
nemesis as aflation much. I want to know if you
have a nemesis, you don't have to name them, but
you also can if you would like to.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Well, it's it's it's such a great question because it's
something I talk about and think about a lot, because
what happened when even when I had a company with
Reese and there was a grounds well of like female content,
suddenly everyone started watching the first few things we made,
and so I cannot tell you how many people said
to me, oh my god, are you worried that other
(05:20):
women are going to do it, and there's another company
that started, and I was like no, And I truly
wasn't worried, because I do think that, like any industry,
like suddenly, like you know, it becomes such a kind
of part of the public consciousness, it's good for us all.
And I find I do find in Hollywood that like,
one of the things I do a lot is talk
about things I love and other people's shows and films
(05:43):
that I love, and other women I love doing things.
But I don't think there's enough of it. I actually
don't think other women talk enough about the things that
they love. And I do think there is this kind
of myth that's been created that there's only so much space,
which I think is bullshit. So I agree with Asher.
I do think I have a healthy competitiveness one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
How about Maya, because this strife is obviously, you know,
loosely based on the book that you wrote, and it's
true that over the course of Mum Maya there have
been rival publications that have been set up quite explicitly
to compete with Muma Maya, who had a market share
of sort of female readers. How have you handled that
over the years, knowing that I know how you've handled
(06:22):
that over the.
Speaker 7 (06:23):
Years, so well, I'm a monster when it comes to
being competitive. It's not my favorite trait, and yet I
also see how it drives me. And it's interesting the
line between being competitive and being ambitious I don't and
also being self critical.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So I sort of flip because.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
I'm always even when I was in magazines and rivals
used to start up against us, and so much more
since starting Muma Maya, we've We've had every major media
company come at us. We've had independence, and a lot
of them have come at us with the explicit aim
that they've said in market that they're going to take
us down.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And how does that honestly feel terrifying?
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Because these are big companies with thousands of people and
literally millions of dollars, and they will have TV campaigns
and they will have outdoor advertising, and they will be
able to spend in ways that we couldn't even imagine,
and I think.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That that's always so scary.
Speaker 7 (07:21):
But what I learned is that you can't drive forward
while you're looking in the rearview mirror. So I find
that it always motivates me but it motivates me to
evolve and to be different and to keep moving. I
kind of almost need someone snipping at my heels a
little bit. I find that that's really motivating.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I wanted to ask you as well, Maya, about season
one because after that premiere, and we didn't speak about
it at the time, but you spiraled big time, right
because there was going to be a spotlight on you,
and of course Asher plays Evelyn, who is not you,
but it was seen as something that was influenced by
your book.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
What happened? Why do you think you had such a
big emotional response.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It was so bad.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
I remember saying to Bruna and Asher and I saw
them in Melbourne that I had just been having a
panic attack for a week and I just felt like
I had no skin, Like I felt incredibly exposed.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This is before I knew that people would really like
the show.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
So even though the show was so much about you know,
I wasn't responsible for the show. These guys in the
cast and crew were responsible for it. But I was
scared that people were going to come after me. You
know that there's sort of the trauma of previous cancelations,
which we talk about in one and season two. The
pressure of that and the weight of responsibility knowing that
(08:46):
you have a whole company and if you get canceled,
if the tide turns on you, there's hundreds of people's
jobs at risk, and that's something that I live with
every day. And at that time, it just felt too much.
I didn't I didn't have any way to process it
because I had no control over it. It wasn't me,
but parts of it were, and I I didn't. I
(09:08):
just couldn't process it took me.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
A while, and you didn't know how people were coming
to it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
As in we often say people don't hate listen to podcasts, right,
there's almost a safe space that you have there, and
people would be watching that show who didn't know you,
who loved you, and who hated you. So that's a
pretty scary thing.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
What was delightful is that the conversation wasn't about me. Yeah,
And I was so relieved because I didn't want it
to be all about me, and it was about Asher
and the show and the characters and the story and
the idea of women and ambition and all of the
things that we all wanted it to be. And I
was just so relieved, but it took a little bit
(09:46):
of time to see how it was going to be received.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And a lot of that had to do with Asher,
the way that you inhabited Evelyn, and you were very
purposeful about going this isn't a cheap imitation. This is
a character who's been created. You weren't handed a script,
not for season one, not for season two. You have
been instrumental in the creation of this show and a
creative lead in this What did you want from from
(10:09):
Evelyn going into season two?
Speaker 6 (10:11):
I wanted her to still be under siege as she
was in the first series, but I really wanted for
her to write off the bat in season in episode
one in season two, to start to grapple with what
it meant for her personally. So we just, I guess
(10:34):
we committed to trying to make it a really emotional
experience right from episode one, not something that just starts
to grow and we're setting up the office again and whatever,
like actually right off the bat, which is why we
introduced Merychustas as a psychologist to illustrate the public and
(10:57):
the private in a more intense and experiential way than
we did in the first season.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I wanted to build on that.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
We all did so that it became relatable on a
more layered level, I suppose.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And the public private.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I mean, it feels like that's never been more relevant
or more timely, and it's something that the three of you,
to varying degrees, have navigated throughout your entire careers.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
How have you found that, Asher, Because you're you're a real.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Actor, right, You're like, you love happy put that on
your Instagram.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Real actor. I love it.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But when you do promo, people dick and they're trying
to find out. People are fascinated by your life, by your.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Relationship, by your family, by your juicy bits.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
How do you decide what's for Asher and what's for
everyone else's consumption?
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Well, you know, I used to really tussle with this
myself when when around off when Offspring became so popular
and big and we felt like we had and I
also at the same time met Vincent, my now husband,
and Luca and then we had baby and it was
all at the same time and it was all just
too full on. And we've spoken about this. It was
(12:12):
just really it was huge. I was going to school
drop off and pick up, Oh, they're there.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Again.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Okay, now we're at the airport. They're there again, paparazzi. Yeah,
And you know, it was a really intense time. But
at the time I felt like it was impossible to control,
and it is, and it's so much easier now. I
couldn't care less who's looking at me, couldn't care less
who's following me than sit at the table and sit
(12:39):
there with their phone like that video has mildly uncomfortable,
but it's okay. It's fine with me. It doesn't affect
my core family and my unit. We've all made a
very clear decision about that that it's very easy to
keep your private life private if you wish to, and
we have till my husband wrote a book and blew it.
(13:04):
But you know, I think it's it's fine now.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It feels from the outset looking at how you've navigated
your career like there was a purposeful decision there, because
there can be a sense of and you know, all
three of you have experienced it where people are going
to ask things about people that you love, or about
feelings that you have or whatever, and it can be
(13:29):
seen as quiet. Like me, you've talked about becoming more
boundaried and feeling like you have intimacy leakage, almost like
you're leaking it by sharing. And I'm interested Asha if
in interviews sometimes you're asked something or you feel that
and you go, I'm sitting here firmly in a boundary, like,
do you exnerience with that?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I don't, because I think we're flipping.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I think because interestingly, over the last few years that
we've known each don't. I don't have to think about
self protecting because I just do.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's who I am as a person.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
I am. Really it takes a while to get to
know me because I'm cautious, and it takes a while
for me to trust, and you know, in friendships or
professional relationships or whatever. So I guess I just kind
of naturally hold my cards closer to my chest than
some people do.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Having said that, I am.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
Talking now, I'm talking and talking and talking and talking.
I don't really feel uncomfortable about much at all, you know,
discussing much at all. I feel very different to even
a few years ago. And I think this has a
lot to do with finding my agency in a way,
(14:42):
finding out that actually I can produce with people that
I think are the best in the world. I can
do that. My voice is worthy. I don't have to
sensor myself. I spent so many years censoring myself. What
a waste of time that was. You know I did
do that. I censored myself thought, Oh, I can't say
(15:05):
that because that'll offend so and so that all or
the maybe I've got the wrong opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh me, it's just exhausting.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
How about you, Bruna, You're so well respected, not just
in the industry but in Australia. Is someone who's gone
overseas and had this enormous success, and whether it's your
relationship with other creatives or your family, you've had moments
of having to navigate what you share and what you
don't do.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
You have boundaries between public and private.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Well, I should have had more when I was younger. No, Well,
kind of similar to Asher, I think. I mean for me,
and there's so much talk about metapause and I'm not
interested in talking about the physical aspects of anymore. What
I love is that every woman I know who is
on the other side of it, like me, you just
don't give a fuck anymore. Like the beauty of turning
(15:55):
fifty for me was that like I suddenly went Okay,
I don't care. I don't kind of don't care what
people think, and I am worthy and I have had
this amazing life and I've got something to say and
I've got something to give. So I particularly in the
last few years. And this ties in a little bit
with what you were talking about earlier. I think I
subverted my own personality a little bit because I was
(16:16):
trying to make room for other people that I was
working with, and I was like, oh, I have to
make sure everyone knows it's you know, you know, we are,
you know, there are partnerships.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And I think.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Sometimes so what I felt, and I said this to Mia,
the only time I really felt like i'd be myself
was actually when I did No Filter, and then when
I did Holly's podcast, I was like, oh, when I
hear listen back to it, I'm like, oh, that's me.
Whereas where I am still cautious is in print media.
Because the several times I've been burnt was always in
(16:47):
print where it was your video of me. I'd rather
someone put a video and then, and that's why. And
I so when Mia was talking about, you know how
vulnerable she was, and I have had the privilege of
telling other people's stories before whether it's inspired by I,
(17:08):
and I often to think, what is it like, whether
it's shell Strade or Sam Bloom, what is it like?
So few people have been in her position where they've
had anything inspired by them or made about them. It's
a very vulnerable place to be.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
That's so interesting because that's, you know. Another central theme
of this season is the advent of kind of podcasting
and that being a totally new frontier that mayor you
were at the forefront of really adopting that in Australia.
And the thing about podcasting is that you know, right
now we're in a relatively small room with a relatively
(17:42):
small amount of people context all of those things. But
have you found that you've had to be more intentional
about what you share and what you don't. A lot
of people ask that with the podcast, They say, you know,
did you think about that before you shared that story,
especially when it impacts other people.
Speaker 7 (17:58):
We were just talking about this before because the big
shift now, which I don't think is a great one,
is the way podcasts have become videos because people don't
hate listen and to invest time. It's very intimate experience
listening to a podcast, they're literally in your ears and.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
In your very personal space.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
You're not scrolling past, you're actually often doing something else,
but it's intimate, and you'll often spend a long time
with that person's voice in your ear. And so you've
got a self selected audience. They're there because they want
to be there, not because they want you to fuck up,
or they want to criticize something you've said, or because
they like feeling irritated by you. But now with video
(18:40):
and the pressures of the Internet, at first it was
we all needed to make video for social media so
that people could discover our podcast. Now it's become video podcasts,
the new TV shows and the new chat shows, and
so now we've got to be on YouTube, and I
think that has changed something.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Because you are more conscious. No filter.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Started video as video, and straight away I stopped because
as soon as you know you're being filmed, people just
sort of differently.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And you must have seen that in all the different
views you've done. Why don't you stop doing it?
Speaker 7 (19:16):
Because you Because as wonderful as podcasts are, the one
thing that hasn't been able to be solved. The best
thing about them is that there's no algorithm. But the
worst thing about them is that there's no algorithm, So
it means that people can't discover you can't really it's
hard to discover new podcasts right where it was, so
we all had to make social you know, reels and
video and photos and stuff. It's and now it's YouTube
(19:38):
and it's look, it's capitalism, but it's not. Only does
it make podcasting more expensive, it's sort of changed the experience,
which is unfortunate because we loved not even having to
worry about him having food and our teeth and brushing
our hair. But podcasts for women are in like, there's
cut through that you just can't have. Because with digital media,
everything kind of looks the same thanks to social media,
(20:01):
every you know, at first it all was made into
a little Facebook post. Now it's websites pretty much look
the same. Social makes everything homogenous. Podcast don't. Podcasts. It's
your voice, it's what you have.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
To say, it's your point of view, depending on the
type of podcast it is.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
So I don't know, it's always been just such a
great medium for women and women over index in terms
of the amount of podcasts that we listen to compared
to men, and in Australia even more so. So Yeah,
I love it as a medium.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Coming up after this break, we talk about trolling and
the real life similarities that Evelyn Jones faces that both
Maya and Brunner experience as business owners.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Evelyn in the show is similar to you.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's interesting what Asha said about why you don't have
to do that, right, But Evelyn is someone who works
in a business is answerable to you know, paying salaries
and all that kind of stuff. But I'm interested in
having inhabited everyone for as long as you have. If
it's changed how you feel about female public figures, because
(21:16):
there are a lot of not just women but also
men who have certain people who they might hate for
no reason or dismiss or criticize. Has it given you
a new lens on reading about people or thinking about
public figures, knowing you know the context and what goes
into the creation of someone like that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh gosh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And that was the Even though there were some similarities
to being an actor that's known and lives a public
quite a public life, to someone like you, Maa, it's different.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And so I.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Didn't have a really great understanding actually of what goes
into building a company like this, a media company a
huge thing, and how much of you is required to
put into it and put out there, so to speak.
I mean I really didn't have a good understanding of
(22:17):
that at all. So yes is the answer. The respect
that I've kind of developed for.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That is huge.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
And having to go through the performance and the cost
of what it is emotionally and physically to working that
hard and revealing yourself. I mean I always said it
takes a certain kind of courage to put yourself out
there in that way, something I've not ever done.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
Well, Yeah, it's interesting that it's so funny that you said,
will then stop doing the video?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, I asked you. I didn't say, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
It's a really good friend.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's a question everyone wonder because everyone knows you on
broadcast everybody, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
But that's what you could.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
They're always competitors coming and you've got to stay on top,
and it's an arms race.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
But then what Evelyn grapples with a light in season
two is what Bruner and I have as business owners
and founders of co founders, both of us in what
you want to do for the art and what's right,
and then what you need to do for commercial realities
and all that juggling act that you have to have
to make between compromise, compromise, compromise. How do you retain
(23:32):
the integrity of what you want to do and what
your company stands for versus the commercial realities of having
to keep the lights on? Of course, you know, Bernie,
you must go through that all the time. There must
be a million things that you want to produce, but
you know there's just not a big enough audience for it,
a funding for it.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Yeah, yeah, no, I do. And I think that's my
interest was so much. I think in telling this story
was dictated by that. I think I've said this before,
but the reason I wanted to make this show is
because when I did No Filter go how many years
ago the first time, and I walked into the office
and I saw all these women sitting there and like
how big it was and what she'd created. And as
(24:07):
someone who's created something, we're like a tiny when we
make a show. It's hundreds of people right now, but
our company itself is like fifteen people. But you know,
I think people really truly, it's so easy to take
people for people to kind of attack and criticize, but
no one has any idea what God is required. Particularly
(24:29):
in the last few years, we've you know, as business owners,
we've wear that a pandemic were we wear the various
work stoppages in the US, and it's really stressful and
it's you know, and also it's really hard to create
something from nothing. So easy for people now oh everyone
has you know, everyone can go and do this thing,
but it's really hard, not just to build a business,
(24:50):
but to build a sustainable business and to evolve a business.
I mean, that's the thing about the video component, Like
you just have to keep evolving. You have people, people
are finding things in different ways. When we make TV shows,
we have to do everything we can for people to
watch them. Where that's you know, the premiere's evolved, you know,
necessarily in the maths and you just have to find
(25:12):
a way because you know, the only thing that matters
once you've actually you know, put all your work into
making something is like trying to get people to watch it.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
What I loved about the start of season two was
like the kickoff when you know, the executive producers all
sat down and talked about all the characters and where,
what who we wanted to see more of, what kind
of things we wanted to explore for them, And that
was just such. I mean, the whole thing's been just
(25:42):
a gift for me in terms of watching people at
the top of their game. I've just been like sitting
there eating popcorn for most of it. But I loved
the understanding that like Brunner and Asher and the other
executive producers and particularly Sarah Scheller, who's our executive producer
and chief writerer, they all had spoke about the characters
(26:03):
as if they were real and the ideas they had
for the explorations.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's like, yeah, it's like make believe. I loved it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, And there's a protection I suppose, as you know,
someone who wrote on this, but also as a viewer
of Evelyn right because we know her, we know her context,
we know her family life, and in that way, I'm
interested Bruna too, getting to know this story more and
exploring her whole character. If you see pylons, cancelation, trolling,
(26:34):
I mean there's been cases just in the last week
where you see people and you go, oh, she's not
having a good time. This week has being a part
of this show changed.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
How you see that. Have you thought about it more,
have you noticed it more?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Oh? Yeah, totally. I mean, well I've just noticed it
being in the world. Yeah, anyone else. I mean, you know,
it's kind of this it's a crazy time. And I
mean you asked ask you that question before. But like
I'm I have so much kind of you know, empathy
for people who put themselves out there. And that's one
of the things I think I just said to me
(27:09):
before because I'm starting to kind of you know, do
lots of content, just talk about the things I do
more and talk about things I'm interested in. And one
of the things I will never do is talk about
things I don't like, Yes, because I just think I
know how much work goes into something. I don't care
if I didn't like it or enjoy the experience of
reading or watching something. For me, I'll only talk about
(27:29):
things that I love because I do feel that. I
just feel that the world needs optimism right now. And
I think, particularly in our business, I don't know what
message we're sending to young people like we you know,
we just felt like we could do anything when we
were younger, and I feel like in our business it's
already hard to access it and to find a way in.
And now the world's just you know, the media is
(27:51):
just like more companies, you know, laying people off. You know, yes,
is it getting harder to make a TV show at
one hundred percent? But you know, is it going to
evolve and a young people are going to be able
to rise one hundred percent? So you know, I just
feel like it is our job to you know, kind
of protect that in a way, because yeah, it's so
much easier right clickbait to get ahead like a headline
(28:13):
and to cancel someone right there, to have a conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
It's so easy to write a shiit review.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
It's so easy. I've got the same policy. I will
never say a book I didn't like television show. I
just think it's better just shut up.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Yeah, you love what you have, that's right, Lift up
what you love, what inspire, what's inspiring.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
There's enough content, Like it's fine, leave the other stuff alone.
It's not for you.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
But mea I'm interested with the trolling element, which is
a big thing in season two, is that Evelyn has
her sort of own own troll.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
What's been your experience of that and how.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
It's evolved over the years because you've had one troll,
I'm sure you've had two.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, it's actually.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
Got better for me personally, it's got better. I mean,
I'm sure there's somewhere that I can't see them, but.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I've got a fake name.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
I don't know how much of it is that I
give less fucks. And I don't read comments because I
mean sometimes I do, but I think that you learn
early on. You know, I've been working in digital media
for seventeen years, and it's not normal to know what
everyone thinks about you twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's just not and it's not normal to be able.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
To say what you think about everything and for have
those people read it. Like we're not designed for that.
And so I always am very separate. I don't do
anything for the response. I do it because I think
it's the right thing, and then I back myself. It's
not to say I'm always right, but if I'm in
(29:39):
a way disinterested from if I write anything personal or
disclose anything personal, not really interested in what people think
about it. I did it because I thought it could
help some people. It helped me process it. That's why
I put it out there. Yeah, so you know you listen,
but you don't listen too hard, if that makes sense, Ashua.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Do you read reviews?
Speaker 6 (30:02):
And yes, I read the good ones, so yeah, yeah
I do. Yeah, I mean I missed quite a lot
of press.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I have to say.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
You know, there was a whole bunch of articles that
were sent to us yesterday collectively, and I looked, I
scanned all of them, went oh, I didn't know about that,
and I didn't know about this, and all right, I
was so and so and done that, and I read
a few reviews in there, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I do.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
I mean, I've just I don't mind what people think.
I really don't.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I've never read a scaping.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
The only thing that ever impacted me was when I
was starting out in the theater at the MTC and
I had a whole it was sort of like the
third or fourth play I've ever done, right, And I
mean I had ten solid years in the theater there,
and I had all these fantastic reviews and the show
was being well accepted, well received, and then there was
(31:01):
one review that said, look, it was the smallest criticism
about one scene that I performed in the entire play,
and it really got me, and it really hurt and
I couldn't understand, and I let it impact on me.
I let it affect me and actually how I approached
the performance. Wow, So that's scary with theater because you've
(31:24):
got to go out there the next night and do it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You haven't just delivered it.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Rhy. Do you think that impacted you?
Speaker 5 (31:28):
So?
Speaker 6 (31:28):
I think because I was really young, to be honest,
and I still hadn't I still hadn't found my center
in any way as an actor or as a woman,
or you know. I was twenty four, twenty three, twenty four.
But since that I did realize though, through the course
of the running of that play and performing it, that
(31:50):
is that is a complete and utter waste of my time.
And I'm not going to do that moving forward. And
I've never done it. I've never done it since because
it really hurt me someone else's opinion. I don't know
who that person was. I can't I remember their name now, but.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
It was one person.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Don't do this.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
If that's how you're going to feel, don't do that.
Don't do this, don't choose to do it.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
Because acting is about a lot of rejection. Any creative
you right, you get rejected.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I get rejected. I got rejected a lot when we
knew each other in my twenties getting it. I never
got rejected.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Then no, I reviews, it's got great reviews.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, that's for another whole podcast on its own. No
review thing is really interesting, and I think because I
of course you want good reviews, right, But I have
seen so many times with my own work, the stuff
that has really worked for me commercially is not always
the stuff that the critics have embraced, because I think
sometimes people feel that something's super commercial. Well that's possibly,
(32:51):
and also, don't forget the metrics are still that like
most reviewers are older white men. It is awful because
you know they are not necessarily the audience for what
we're all doing, not necessarily, and they will that they're personal.
Like that's the only thing that annoys me when I
read a review. When it's you can really feel like
it's an attack and you're like, come on, you can
(33:13):
have this, you can have an opinion, you.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Can So does that sting if you feel like it
has gone into like they've played the person rather than.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah, it stings, but in a way that I'm like,
I kind of like, don't I mean I also, I've
been doing it long enough that I just don't think
you can you know, you can't worry about it. I
pay more attention to how many people are watching and
the women that come up to us, all the men
that come up to us after they've seen the show.
The best reviewer you will live again is when someone
comes up to you on the street and that's, oh
my god. I'd like, I had a girl come up
(33:41):
to meet a party reason because my god, I just
love it. You know, I love so much what you
do and it just meant so much to me, this
young woman because I was like, well, that's my that's
my audience. But I will say because I was in
La recently and Faye just came out in the UK,
and I'm such a super fan of like Asher and
Image and that, I was like email. I was like
trying to just collect all the good ones because I
(34:02):
was like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Oh my god, what if they're seeing this?
Speaker 5 (34:04):
And I was so excited And that's what I mean. Yeah,
I mean, do I wish I produce that show? Sure?
And they asked me, no, they did not. Am I
working with them both on something else? Yes? You know,
because but I just you know, that's that's where I'm
not competitive, but I do have professional jealousy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
That's okay, that's helped me.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Yeah, you're very happy for the people I love.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah yeah, but it doesn't stop you from putting it
out there all over social media and saying, look what
my friends did.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I'm so proud. Like you are the best in that way.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
If you want good recommendations, follow Brune on Instagram. Shit, yeah,
very very good.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
Can I just say something about just you made me
think of something before about putting your opinions out there.
One of the reasons that I love Out Loud so
much is because you're all you'll have quite different opinions,
and like, I love the conversation and I've found myself
in the car so many times it's so new to
me where I'm like, I wanted to call Jesse up
and goes, oh my god, you are so right, I
(34:57):
hate and then the other ones where I'm like, Jesse,
you you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, understand that all the time.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
I was right about that. But it's an amazing forum
that you created because it because you were putting your
opinions out there, but because it's in context and in conversation.
I think it's like, it's kind of an amazing way
to heat.
Speaker 7 (35:21):
And it's very different to writing an opinion story, which
Jesse and I don't do anymore. We've spent a lot
of years like everybody else who was working women's maybe online,
which which is so much of what season two talks
about putting yourself out there. You know, those years around
the mid twenty teens were when you had to have
strong opinions and you had to have them fast, and
(35:44):
you had to do personal essays about things that are
really intimate, things that have happened to you. And that
was what the Internet demanded at the time, and we
certainly published a lot of that, and we would. I
think that's part of why we're more boundary now. It's
not that time anymore, and a lot of us got really,
really burnt and we explore that and.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
It's dangerous, which we explore in the season two. It
can be become extremely.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
Good for the person who's who's putting it out there.
Podcasts are different, but writing that stuff we all learnt
by trial and error.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, what it could do.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
I wanted to ask you Brune about because this as
series is also a lot about ambition, as was Season one,
and as someone who has lived and worked in the
US and in Australia, people talk about tall poppy syndrome.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Is ambition different in Australia?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Is it something that do the Evelyn Jones Is get
punished in Australia in a way they wouldn't in Americas.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I mean, I've noticed it having been gone twenty years,
and there is definitely a tall poppy is a real thing.
I even found it when I came back. It was
like write in Covid and it was Gladys and Anastasia
where the premier premiers the premieres, and I even found
like watching like the media, the way they pitted them
(37:05):
against each other. I was like, what is this place like?
And it was just interesting. And I do find that
ambitions is not a dirty word in America. I think
that's one of the reasons I really always wanted to
go live in America is because they don't care. They
don't really care where you came from or you've done. Like,
if you work hard and you know you're kind of
good at what you do, they will let you rise,
(37:28):
you know, And I think that you know, having kind
of grown up in that system and then come back here.
I'm definitely much more reticent to, you know, put myself
out there here and say, you know, it is different here.
I think, yes, Australia, because I think people, I just
feel like someone's going to, you know, if it's weird,
is people are going to.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Occasionally in an interview I get asked about this, and
I always find it mildly insulting from being really honest.
Why didn't you go and try your luck in Hollywood?
Why haven't you gone and worked overseas?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Why didn't you do that?
Speaker 6 (38:08):
Why didn't you take the opportunity unities if you offered them? Well,
because I have had an incredible path here in my
own country. Every project I've worked on, I've believed in
and I've really wanted to make. I mean that's rare,
you know for an actor I've had.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
It wouldn't be.
Speaker 6 (38:27):
Too much to ask for to be acknowledged for that success,
the successful light of life I've built here as in
my industry, As opposed to questioning why I didn't do
it on an international scale, I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Are you somehow disappointed?
Speaker 6 (38:43):
It's somehow disappointed or something. I find it an interesting
question I understand the curiosity. I mean, the great answer
to it now is, look, the streaming services have changed
everything in our work does now push out internationally fabulous?
It's so great, So we can be in this incredible
country and work. You know, But it's an interesting question
to try and answer without feeling not good enough or
(39:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
Is there ever a moment where it's like I've got
to make a decision do I go to stay?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Yeah, I think I've spoken to you to you about
it then.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I probably was one of the ones that asked that, No,
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Just it's an all question. It's a question that just
gets last all the time. It just you just sparked
that thought then.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
And there is an inherent there was a disrespect about
actually what Australia means. It's devaluing.
Speaker 6 (39:30):
Well, I just don't want it to devalue the work
that we make here.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I think the work we make here.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Is great, and I think the work that the productions
I've been involved with here are memorable. People still talk
about them twenty years later. Love my Wife is an example.
Can we not talk about appreciating the stuff that we
have made Yeah. Anyway, it's an interesting thing, and that
sounds maybe I've got a bit of a chip on
my shoulder about that topic. But again, you know, there
(39:56):
was a moment where, yes, there was a clear choice.
I was on a plane to New York pretty quickly
after Offspring and very excited. I was very much alone,
had no response abilities. I was I was going to
go and live overseas, but just to see what it
felt like. And I had some connections over there, I
(40:16):
got an agent or whatever, and then I met Vincent
and Luca, and the choice was very clear to me
to stay. And within literally within a month, I was
offered another incredible show here to do, and I thought, Okay,
well that's just what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, that's life, isn't it. Those parts.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
There is more to my conversation with the team behind
Strife after this shortbreak. We talk about the balls they
feel they are currently dropping.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
I wanted to ask sort of about.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Your relationship as well, Brenna and Ashat, because you've this
is not the first project you've worked on.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
I don't think it'll be the last one. Lessons, but
being some kind.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Of few no falling out here, there's been a major
of you to feel.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
What I want to know is Asher, why do you
like working with Bruna?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
What is about Bruno? I know it's hard to.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The other way.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
No, it's easy to talk about in front of her
because she knows that I feel like this.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We just text you know, I love you. I love
you more yesterday from different countries because.
Speaker 7 (41:39):
We came to that too, because there was a photo
of me and Asha together and I just brought up
with Bruno being I love you because.
Speaker 6 (41:46):
We can be like that with each other now. Because
do you know what that is? That is trust? So
my favorite thing about Bruna is that really and truly
heart is on sleeve and she wants to say something
to She's going to say it right to anyone, don't.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Matter who you are. But if you're her.
Speaker 6 (42:06):
Professional partner and friend, the level of trust that you
ask for and the investment that you ask for, I
think this is what I like the most because I
really understand it and I need it too. The level
of investment that you ask for, the commitment, the rigor is,
it's it's really straight. That's that's that's what I wanted.
(42:29):
That's the way Bruna likes to work that's the way
I like to work too. So this is like a
match made in heaven. Really, we just go. We just
meet each other and it's easy, and we know we
do generally align as well, like our opinion, our taste
in drama and people and themes is very similar. Then
(42:50):
Steve steps in the middle and goes middle of us
and I don't know, but how about this we've shut
up the.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
No, we don't. He's got an amazing if you mean
too always how.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
About you, Brunow? Why do you love working with Ashaston?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
This is in the last week.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I'm kidding.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
I mean obviously we met, you know on the first
time we work together was Nine Perfect Strangers. I was
a die hard Offspring fan, Like was the only show
Stephen I watched together, and I was probably getting it,
Like I should never say this out loud, I'm going
to say publicly, like I think my mother was sending
it to me because I couldn't get it in America
at that time, and I was like, You've got to
send me Offspring. So I was such a die hard fan.
(43:26):
And then when we came to casting that major role
in Nine Perfect Nicole also was a die hard fan,
So that was like that that's where the kind of
you know, that first time working together was so special
also because it was during COVID and you know, playing
this astounding role. And then I mean, I am a
person who if I love working with someone, I will
(43:47):
do it over and over.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah you have favorite s.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Yeah I do have particular favorites, but what I love
is you know, and then obviously Lost Flowers happened, and
Asher also had previous relationship with Glendon, so you know,
there was this that was kind of an amazing experience.
But I remember strife and I was like, oh, going
to want to do something it's more comedic, and I
was kind of reticent to bring it up. And then
she's like, well, you know, I remember like being on
(44:12):
set with you and You're like, yeah, of course, like
of course I'll read it, Like why wouldn't I read it?
And like I was like kind of overjoyed. But I
feel the same way. I mean number one, and add
Sarah Sheller to this mix because she is we are
all very so I'm probably the oldest, but like you know,
I am the oldest, but we're in the same We're
in the same kind of age bracket as a mayor,
(44:34):
and it is such a gre It's so great when
everyone's having the same conversation. But I will tell you,
you know, I worked with many actors producing, and I've
been really lucky that I've had a lot of repeat
relationships with actors who are in something producing. But no
one works harder than national as a producer and as
an actor. No one is more prepared, no one cares
more like I mean, she's like, we're an edit, You're
(44:57):
like she I mean, I'll be struggling to remember the footage, like,
oh my god, maybe we should use that shop. But
I'm not. I'm good on big picture, but on specifics.
This one, no, every single frame of every shot. You know,
she has instincts about how something should sound, how something
should feel. You know, she wants to support and bring
(45:18):
up other people. So she's an amazing producer, which is
why we're doing lots more of it, because even beyond
and that's why I was so happy when I saw Fake,
honestly and a little bit jealous because is a really
good producer, because it just you could see a much
love and care. I don't think that's what people underestimate
a lot of every there's thousands and thousands of tiny decisions.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
That got moment by moment by moment. It's so important
to me. It would sit on these calls and be.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Like, I just kill want to call you out.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Literally goes like I just on these calls.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
I muted myself because they go on like but this
is what's so amazing is that you guys just don't
you like your level of attention to detail and endurance.
Like I'll watch it the first time and I'll go
that was it good, and I've got a couple notes,
But then.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
You have to watch it like twenty more times.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
And so then there'd be these long zooms and this
one zoom we were on and there were all these
people's and I just was like doing something else, and
then Bruns talking and then I just heard but I
want to hear what Maya thinks about that?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And I spent like a little child like this, and
I raised my head. Do I try and fake it
or like I have no idea. I hadn't been listened.
I've just actually been my email. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 7 (46:40):
I'm so bored that sorry.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
I'm so bored. You guys are amazing.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
I just I'm just I'm looking at my emails because
I'm so bored. So nice they didn't throw to me ever, again,
it was great and you were but the level of
and of course they're working on lots of other projects
at the time, you know, and they have that attention
to detail and working as a group.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
The details, the fun.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
That's job You've got that is totally understand things too.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
But that is our main Yeah, to be fair.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
My final question was about so your book work balance
called you wanted to call it balances bullshit originally, Yeah,
And I wanted to ask, so you're all married, you've
got kids, you've got big jobs.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
What ball or balls are are you currently dropping? How
is balanced failing you in this moment? Maya, What are
you doing badly at the moment?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Oh, there's not enough bandwidth on the internet. List of things?
What am I doing badly?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
I'm failing as a daughter, I'm failing as a daughter
in law.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I'm failing as a wife. I'm failing as a mother. Yeah,
usually pretty much. I'm failing as a homemaker.
Speaker 7 (48:08):
I'm probably failing as a bar like I don't feel great.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
About myself most of the time.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
This makes me sad hearing this, not in.
Speaker 7 (48:17):
A torture like not, but it's but I'm pretty exciting
of the fact that I shouldn't stay failing, but I
feel inadequate. But I'm also like kind of used to that,
and I just think that's the default. And that's why
balance is bullshit, because if the expectation is that you
should be balanced, when you're not, you feel like you're failing.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So I've internalized it, and in actual fact, I'm just
doing my best.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Women are dropping countless balls every day. It's just what
ball you choose to drop.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
That's right or multiple. I mean, I'm the same. I
don't I know what you mean about the feeling like
you're failing. I have daily moments like that, no matter
what area it is, and I think, oh, gosh, you
just could have Why didn't you just do that differently?
With Voul the teen year old who's a boy as
well and experiencing really interesting things at the moment, Why
(49:08):
couldn't you have done it different? What was it that
made you attack that in a certain way. I do
this all the time as a parent, there's no doubt
about it. But also in all those different ways you
just mentioned. But I just think the whole thing is simple.
The balance thing is completely elusive. It's absolute bullshit. I
couldn't agree more. I don't reach for it anymore. I
(49:31):
feel so much better that I don't as well, because God,
I was trying to when I first became a mother,
in particular in my early forties, I was desperate for
no one to see that I was in any way
challenged or struggling or I mean, I just it's such
a relief to not apologize for it anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Because it's not real. We can't do it.
Speaker 6 (49:53):
We've got to drop the expectations completely.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
How about you, Brune, I even never failed anything.
Speaker 5 (49:58):
I mean, it is my favorite subject because I balance
as bullshit, and I talk about it all the time,
and oh, I think I fail all the time. I think.
I mean, my my kids would tell you. They would say, like,
because I'm on. I mean, I've just been away from them,
for I just got back yesterday and I've not been
in Sydney since March twentieth. Now my kids came to
(50:19):
see me. But I think you have to. I think
you cannot thrive at one thing and not something else
doesn't stuffer. So for me, I've been really focused on
my health because as you and I both have whatever
you and stuff, so we have to focus on that.
For years, I didn't, and I was trying to be
a mother and I was trying to run my company,
so that's been a focus. But then of course, you know,
(50:41):
just generally my kids get you know, less time. Thank god,
I have a husband who has been the you know,
the main physical caregiver to my children, because if I
didn't have that, I could not do the other things.
And I think one of the things about filming, and
I know Asha feels this too. Yes, I miss my
kids when I'm away filming, when I'm in a five
star hotel, sitting on set all day, getting to make things,
(51:07):
so five things. But it is well, I feel like
when I'm there, I'm there, and then when I'm here,
I can be more here. And I know that Ashery
experiences that is very different when you are filming at home,
which you know you don't do that often. You're trying
to balance going home being a mother. And in Ash's case,
I don't have to learn any lines just to go
home and work for hour.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
I made hours a day.
Speaker 6 (51:29):
I made fake that way in my hometown Melbourne, balance
performing fake producing that as well coming home having to
keep working.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I have to, I must.
Speaker 6 (51:39):
But little ones there, the little ones, they're looking at me, going,
could you please make that dinner? Could you please make
that dinner? Yep, I can, you know. But it's the
that's that's a hard shot.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
It's doing, it's being in two places at once. It's
like when you when you're being a mother, you want
to be a mum. When you're at work, you want
to be at work. But it's trying to do both
of those things. And I think that's why COVID was
so hard for a.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Lot of people.
Speaker 5 (52:01):
But that's well, that's why mothers say weekends are the
most exhausting. I mean, I remember when my maybies were little.
I'd get to Monday and I skip off to that
off this. I'd be like, oh my god, this is
so easy.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Jesse, what balls? Oh my god, so many ball You're
quite new to this. I remember when you were just before.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. Well let's just say
this interview was prepared very last minute, but I think
it's gone all right. But what do you think?
Speaker 2 (52:26):
What do you what do you you know?
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Oh, definitely, Like, so exercise drops off, that's something you're
you're still eating. It's just like when was the last
time I gave Mam a phone call? Like, I've probably
been a bitch to you today for no reason.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Do you know what I'm nailing being your grandmother?
Speaker 1 (52:40):
You are?
Speaker 4 (52:41):
That's the ball that you are not happy because I'm
dropping the ball as a mother.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
I'm nailing that.
Speaker 7 (52:46):
You're really loving but I'm just loving it. And also
the expectations are really low. It's like being on this
show for me, but that you know what I mean,
All you have to do is just kind of love
and go.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
That's great, and that's literally my job. It's very easy.
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Yeah, thank you so much, thank you for joining for
joining me. Nob have a draft during the process this
that not even No No you.
Speaker 6 (53:13):
Held onto that I was going to steal it from you.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
I cannot wait for everyone to watch this new season
strife on Binge. It was such a privilege to keep
Kate's seat warm and to speak to three of my
favorite people, Asha Brunner and Maya about this incredible project.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
I should just drop.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
In that episode two season two, Claire, my twin sister,
and I wrote that one, so better be your favorite.
You can watch Strife season two now on Binge and
I just know you are going.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
To love it.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown. The
senior producer is Grace Ruvray, with audio production by Jacob Brown.
Kate will be back in your ears on Monday.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hello there, I am Jesse Stevens and welcome to No Filter.
I know I'm not the voice you're used to, and
I too am disappointed not to hear the beautiful tones
of the brilliant Kaylane Brook, but I shoved her out
of her seed this week for a very special occasion.
It has been eighteen months since Australia was first introduced
(00:46):
to Evelyn Jones, the woman trying to build a digital
media company from the ground up while keeping her personal
life from falling apart. Evelyn is, of course, the main
character of the comedy drama series Strife, which broke first
day and first.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Week viewing records for Binge. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Strife is back for a second season, inspired by the
book works Balance by co founder and chief creative officer
of Mum and Maya, as well as the previous host
of No Filter, Maya Friedman. In this special episode, I'm
joined by Maya herself, actor Ashaketti, who plays Evelyn, and
(01:25):
Bruna Papendrea, executive producer and founder of production company Made
up stories. We reflect on season one, including Maya's personal
spiral around the premiere, and explore what's coming in season two,
which drops this Thursday, May eight. But more than that,
we unpack what it means to be a creative woman
(01:46):
in this industry, because so many of the storylines in
Strife mirror what happens in real life to all of
us as writers, produces, actors, and more broadly, as women.
We talk about the three c's, competition, comparison, and cancelation.
We dig into the tension between public and private life
in the digital age, something we all navigate, especially as
(02:09):
women whose experiences are off and up for public consumption.
And of course we talk about ambition. In a room
full of ambitious women, you can bet that these three
women had a lot to say about how the world reacts.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
When women want more. Here are Maya, Asher and Bruna.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Let's begin with the impact of season one, right because
that broke records for the most streamed show I think
on binge in Australia ever. Just from my mother, Ye, Bruna,
did you expect Strife to be that successful?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (02:47):
No, I know I always get asked this question. Did
you know something was going to be a hit.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
An, Well, you've clearly got a good instinct.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Yes, I haven't made anything that wasn't a hit. No,
that was a joke. No movies, not TV shows. Not
TV shows, that's right, not late, that's rude movies. Yes,
I mean again, I think we all made it because
we the audience for this show, and so because I
loved it so much, I felt quite strongly that women
(03:16):
particularly would really embrace the season and watch it kind
of and rewatch it. Even so, I was I surprised. Yes,
it's always just the most beautiful surprise when something does
so well.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
One of the key sort of themes of this season
of season two is competitiveness, Right, Brina, I'm sure you're
not competitive at all?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
A sure are you competitive?
Speaker 6 (03:40):
Only as much as oh my god, I mean we
both competitive, let's be honest about this, but not in it.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Not but actually not.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
At all with uh we meetach other. No, we're not
not at all with other women. I would I think
that it's safe to say I'm certainly not and I
never have been. Maybe as a teenager in my early
teen years at school, I may have felt a little
bit like I, you know, was insecure and wanted to
(04:11):
kind of be better than someone or have what they
had or whatever, that kind of competition. But I think
it's safe to say that these days now, as women,
we're not competitive. We're certainly not with each other, but
we're competitive in the sense that we want things to
be the best they can be. The shows that we make,
the content that we put out there, we want it
(04:32):
to be as authentic as possible and as compelling as possible. Yeah,
I mean that's competitive in a way.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It is.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
You know, I'm interested in whether the competitiveness ever gets
a little bit personal in terms of like having a
nemesis like people, because this is all about there's a
nemesis as aflation much. I want to know if you
have a nemesis, you don't have to name them, but
you also can if you would like to.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Well, it's it's it's such a great question because it's
something I talk about and think about a lot, because
what happened when even when I had a company with
Reese and there was a grounds well of like female content,
suddenly everyone started watching the first few things we made,
and so I cannot tell you how many people said
to me, oh my god, are you worried that other
(05:20):
women are going to do it, and there's another company
that started, and I was like no, And I truly
wasn't worried, because I do think that, like any industry,
like suddenly, like you know, it becomes such a kind
of part of the public consciousness, it's good for us all.
And I find I do find in Hollywood that like,
one of the things I do a lot is talk
about things I love and other people's shows and films
(05:43):
that I love, and other women I love doing things.
But I don't think there's enough of it. I actually
don't think other women talk enough about the things that
they love. And I do think there is this kind
of myth that's been created that there's only so much space,
which I think is bullshit. So I agree with Asher.
I do think I have a healthy competitiveness one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
How about Maya, because this strife is obviously, you know,
loosely based on the book that you wrote, and it's
true that over the course of Mum Maya there have
been rival publications that have been set up quite explicitly
to compete with Muma Maya, who had a market share
of sort of female readers. How have you handled that
over the years, knowing that I know how you've handled
(06:22):
that over the.
Speaker 7 (06:23):
Years, so well, I'm a monster when it comes to
being competitive. It's not my favorite trait, and yet I
also see how it drives me. And it's interesting the
line between being competitive and being ambitious I don't and
also being self critical.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So I sort of flip because.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
I'm always even when I was in magazines and rivals
used to start up against us, and so much more
since starting Muma Maya, we've We've had every major media
company come at us. We've had independence, and a lot
of them have come at us with the explicit aim
that they've said in market that they're going to take
us down.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And how does that honestly feel terrifying?
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Because these are big companies with thousands of people and
literally millions of dollars, and they will have TV campaigns
and they will have outdoor advertising, and they will be
able to spend in ways that we couldn't even imagine,
and I think.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That that's always so scary.
Speaker 7 (07:21):
But what I learned is that you can't drive forward
while you're looking in the rearview mirror. So I find
that it always motivates me but it motivates me to
evolve and to be different and to keep moving. I
kind of almost need someone snipping at my heels a
little bit. I find that that's really motivating.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
I wanted to ask you as well, Maya, about season
one because after that premiere, and we didn't speak about
it at the time, but you spiraled big time, right
because there was going to be a spotlight on you,
and of course Asher plays Evelyn, who is not you,
but it was seen as something that was influenced by
your book.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
What happened? Why do you think you had such a
big emotional response.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It was so bad.
Speaker 7 (08:06):
I remember saying to Bruna and Asher and I saw
them in Melbourne that I had just been having a
panic attack for a week and I just felt like
I had no skin, Like I felt incredibly exposed.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This is before I knew that people would really like
the show.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
So even though the show was so much about you know,
I wasn't responsible for the show. These guys in the
cast and crew were responsible for it. But I was
scared that people were going to come after me. You
know that there's sort of the trauma of previous cancelations,
which we talk about in one and season two. The
pressure of that and the weight of responsibility knowing that
(08:46):
you have a whole company and if you get canceled,
if the tide turns on you, there's hundreds of people's
jobs at risk, and that's something that I live with
every day. And at that time, it just felt too much.
I didn't I didn't have any way to process it
because I had no control over it. It wasn't me,
but parts of it were, and I I didn't. I
(09:08):
just couldn't process it took me.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
A while, and you didn't know how people were coming
to it.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
As in we often say people don't hate listen to podcasts, right,
there's almost a safe space that you have there, and
people would be watching that show who didn't know you,
who loved you, and who hated you. So that's a
pretty scary thing.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
What was delightful is that the conversation wasn't about me. Yeah,
And I was so relieved because I didn't want it
to be all about me, and it was about Asher
and the show and the characters and the story and
the idea of women and ambition and all of the
things that we all wanted it to be. And I
was just so relieved, but it took a little bit
(09:46):
of time to see how it was going to be received.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And a lot of that had to do with Asher,
the way that you inhabited Evelyn, and you were very
purposeful about going this isn't a cheap imitation. This is
a character who's been created. You weren't handed a script,
not for season one, not for season two. You have
been instrumental in the creation of this show and a
creative lead in this What did you want from from
(10:09):
Evelyn going into season two?
Speaker 6 (10:11):
I wanted her to still be under siege as she
was in the first series, but I really wanted for
her to write off the bat in season in episode
one in season two, to start to grapple with what
it meant for her personally. So we just, I guess
(10:34):
we committed to trying to make it a really emotional
experience right from episode one, not something that just starts
to grow and we're setting up the office again and whatever,
like actually right off the bat, which is why we
introduced Merychustas as a psychologist to illustrate the public and
(10:57):
the private in a more intense and experiential way than
we did in the first season.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I wanted to build on that.
Speaker 6 (11:03):
We all did so that it became relatable on a
more layered level, I suppose.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And the public private.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I mean, it feels like that's never been more relevant
or more timely, and it's something that the three of you,
to varying degrees, have navigated throughout your entire careers.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
How have you found that, Asher, Because you're you're a real.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Actor, right, You're like, you love happy put that on
your Instagram.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Real actor. I love it.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But when you do promo, people dick and they're trying
to find out. People are fascinated by your life, by your.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Relationship, by your family, by your juicy bits.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
How do you decide what's for Asher and what's for
everyone else's consumption?
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Well, you know, I used to really tussle with this
myself when when around off when Offspring became so popular
and big and we felt like we had and I
also at the same time met Vincent, my now husband,
and Luca and then we had baby and it was
all at the same time and it was all just
too full on. And we've spoken about this. It was
(12:12):
just really it was huge. I was going to school
drop off and pick up, Oh, they're there.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Again.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
Okay, now we're at the airport. They're there again, paparazzi. Yeah,
And you know, it was a really intense time. But
at the time I felt like it was impossible to control,
and it is, and it's so much easier now. I
couldn't care less who's looking at me, couldn't care less
who's following me than sit at the table and sit
(12:39):
there with their phone like that video has mildly uncomfortable,
but it's okay. It's fine with me. It doesn't affect
my core family and my unit. We've all made a
very clear decision about that that it's very easy to
keep your private life private if you wish to, and
we have till my husband wrote a book and blew it.
(13:04):
But you know, I think it's it's fine now.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
It feels from the outset looking at how you've navigated
your career like there was a purposeful decision there, because
there can be a sense of and you know, all
three of you have experienced it where people are going
to ask things about people that you love, or about
feelings that you have or whatever, and it can be
(13:29):
seen as quiet. Like me, you've talked about becoming more
boundaried and feeling like you have intimacy leakage, almost like
you're leaking it by sharing. And I'm interested Asha if
in interviews sometimes you're asked something or you feel that
and you go, I'm sitting here firmly in a boundary, like,
do you exnerience with that?
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I don't, because I think we're flipping.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
I think because interestingly, over the last few years that
we've known each don't. I don't have to think about
self protecting because I just do.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's who I am as a person.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
I am. Really it takes a while to get to
know me because I'm cautious, and it takes a while
for me to trust, and you know, in friendships or
professional relationships or whatever. So I guess I just kind
of naturally hold my cards closer to my chest than
some people do.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Having said that, I am.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
Talking now, I'm talking and talking and talking and talking.
I don't really feel uncomfortable about much at all, you know,
discussing much at all. I feel very different to even
a few years ago. And I think this has a
lot to do with finding my agency in a way,
(14:42):
finding out that actually I can produce with people that
I think are the best in the world. I can
do that. My voice is worthy. I don't have to
sensor myself. I spent so many years censoring myself. What
a waste of time that was. You know I did
do that. I censored myself thought, Oh, I can't say
(15:05):
that because that'll offend so and so that all or
the maybe I've got the wrong opinion.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh me, it's just exhausting.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
How about you, Bruna, You're so well respected, not just
in the industry but in Australia. Is someone who's gone
overseas and had this enormous success, and whether it's your
relationship with other creatives or your family, you've had moments
of having to navigate what you share and what you
don't do.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
You have boundaries between public and private.
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Well, I should have had more when I was younger. No, Well,
kind of similar to Asher, I think. I mean for me,
and there's so much talk about metapause and I'm not
interested in talking about the physical aspects of anymore. What
I love is that every woman I know who is
on the other side of it, like me, you just
don't give a fuck anymore. Like the beauty of turning
(15:55):
fifty for me was that like I suddenly went Okay,
I don't care. I don't kind of don't care what
people think, and I am worthy and I have had
this amazing life and I've got something to say and
I've got something to give. So I particularly in the
last few years. And this ties in a little bit
with what you were talking about earlier. I think I
subverted my own personality a little bit because I was
(16:16):
trying to make room for other people that I was
working with, and I was like, oh, I have to
make sure everyone knows it's you know, you know, we are,
you know, there are partnerships.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
And I think.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Sometimes so what I felt, and I said this to Mia,
the only time I really felt like i'd be myself
was actually when I did No Filter, and then when
I did Holly's podcast, I was like, oh, when I
hear listen back to it, I'm like, oh, that's me.
Whereas where I am still cautious is in print media.
Because the several times I've been burnt was always in
(16:47):
print where it was your video of me. I'd rather
someone put a video and then, and that's why. And
I so when Mia was talking about, you know how
vulnerable she was, and I have had the privilege of
telling other people's stories before whether it's inspired by I,
(17:08):
and I often to think, what is it like, whether
it's shell Strade or Sam Bloom, what is it like?
So few people have been in her position where they've
had anything inspired by them or made about them. It's
a very vulnerable place to be.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
That's so interesting because that's, you know. Another central theme
of this season is the advent of kind of podcasting
and that being a totally new frontier that mayor you
were at the forefront of really adopting that in Australia.
And the thing about podcasting is that you know, right
now we're in a relatively small room with a relatively
(17:42):
small amount of people context all of those things. But
have you found that you've had to be more intentional
about what you share and what you don't. A lot
of people ask that with the podcast, They say, you know,
did you think about that before you shared that story,
especially when it impacts other people.
Speaker 7 (17:58):
We were just talking about this before because the big
shift now, which I don't think is a great one,
is the way podcasts have become videos because people don't
hate listen and to invest time. It's very intimate experience
listening to a podcast, they're literally in your ears and.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
In your very personal space.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
You're not scrolling past, you're actually often doing something else,
but it's intimate, and you'll often spend a long time
with that person's voice in your ear. And so you've
got a self selected audience. They're there because they want
to be there, not because they want you to fuck up,
or they want to criticize something you've said, or because
they like feeling irritated by you. But now with video
(18:40):
and the pressures of the Internet, at first it was
we all needed to make video for social media so
that people could discover our podcast. Now it's become video podcasts,
the new TV shows and the new chat shows, and
so now we've got to be on YouTube, and I
think that has changed something.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Because you are more conscious. No filter.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Started video as video, and straight away I stopped because
as soon as you know you're being filmed, people just
sort of differently.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And you must have seen that in all the different
views you've done. Why don't you stop doing it?
Speaker 7 (19:16):
Because you Because as wonderful as podcasts are, the one
thing that hasn't been able to be solved. The best
thing about them is that there's no algorithm. But the
worst thing about them is that there's no algorithm, So
it means that people can't discover you can't really it's
hard to discover new podcasts right where it was, so
we all had to make social you know, reels and
video and photos and stuff. It's and now it's YouTube
(19:38):
and it's look, it's capitalism, but it's not. Only does
it make podcasting more expensive, it's sort of changed the experience,
which is unfortunate because we loved not even having to
worry about him having food and our teeth and brushing
our hair. But podcasts for women are in like, there's
cut through that you just can't have. Because with digital media,
everything kind of looks the same thanks to social media,
(20:01):
every you know, at first it all was made into
a little Facebook post. Now it's websites pretty much look
the same. Social makes everything homogenous. Podcast don't. Podcasts. It's
your voice, it's what you have.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
To say, it's your point of view, depending on the
type of podcast it is.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
So I don't know, it's always been just such a
great medium for women and women over index in terms
of the amount of podcasts that we listen to compared
to men, and in Australia even more so. So Yeah,
I love it as a medium.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Coming up after this break, we talk about trolling and
the real life similarities that Evelyn Jones faces that both
Maya and Brunner experience as business owners.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Evelyn in the show is similar to you.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It's interesting what Asha said about why you don't have
to do that, right, But Evelyn is someone who works
in a business is answerable to you know, paying salaries
and all that kind of stuff. But I'm interested in
having inhabited everyone for as long as you have. If
it's changed how you feel about female public figures, because
(21:16):
there are a lot of not just women but also
men who have certain people who they might hate for
no reason or dismiss or criticize. Has it given you
a new lens on reading about people or thinking about
public figures, knowing you know the context and what goes
into the creation of someone like that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Oh gosh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And that was the Even though there were some similarities
to being an actor that's known and lives a public
quite a public life, to someone like you, Maa, it's different.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And so I.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Didn't have a really great understanding actually of what goes
into building a company like this, a media company a
huge thing, and how much of you is required to
put into it and put out there, so to speak.
I mean I really didn't have a good understanding of
(22:17):
that at all. So yes is the answer. The respect
that I've kind of developed for.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That is huge.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
And having to go through the performance and the cost
of what it is emotionally and physically to working that
hard and revealing yourself. I mean I always said it
takes a certain kind of courage to put yourself out
there in that way, something I've not ever done.
Speaker 7 (22:45):
Well, Yeah, it's interesting that it's so funny that you said,
will then stop doing the video?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, I asked you. I didn't say, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
It's a really good friend.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That's a question everyone wonder because everyone knows you on
broadcast everybody, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
But that's what you could.
Speaker 7 (23:04):
They're always competitors coming and you've got to stay on top,
and it's an arms race.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (23:09):
But then what Evelyn grapples with a light in season
two is what Bruner and I have as business owners
and founders of co founders, both of us in what
you want to do for the art and what's right,
and then what you need to do for commercial realities
and all that juggling act that you have to have
to make between compromise, compromise, compromise. How do you retain
(23:32):
the integrity of what you want to do and what
your company stands for versus the commercial realities of having
to keep the lights on? Of course, you know, Bernie,
you must go through that all the time. There must
be a million things that you want to produce, but
you know there's just not a big enough audience for it,
a funding for it.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Yeah, yeah, no, I do. And I think that's my
interest was so much. I think in telling this story
was dictated by that. I think I've said this before,
but the reason I wanted to make this show is
because when I did No Filter go how many years
ago the first time, and I walked into the office
and I saw all these women sitting there and like
how big it was and what she'd created. And as
(24:07):
someone who's created something, we're like a tiny when we
make a show. It's hundreds of people right now, but
our company itself is like fifteen people. But you know,
I think people really truly, it's so easy to take
people for people to kind of attack and criticize, but
no one has any idea what God is required. Particularly
(24:29):
in the last few years, we've you know, as business owners,
we've wear that a pandemic were we wear the various
work stoppages in the US, and it's really stressful and
it's you know, and also it's really hard to create
something from nothing. So easy for people now oh everyone
has you know, everyone can go and do this thing,
but it's really hard, not just to build a business,
(24:50):
but to build a sustainable business and to evolve a business.
I mean, that's the thing about the video component, Like
you just have to keep evolving. You have people, people
are finding things in different ways. When we make TV shows,
we have to do everything we can for people to
watch them. Where that's you know, the premiere's evolved, you know,
necessarily in the maths and you just have to find
(25:12):
a way because you know, the only thing that matters
once you've actually you know, put all your work into
making something is like trying to get people to watch it.
Speaker 7 (25:21):
What I loved about the start of season two was
like the kickoff when you know, the executive producers all
sat down and talked about all the characters and where,
what who we wanted to see more of, what kind
of things we wanted to explore for them, And that
was just such. I mean, the whole thing's been just
(25:42):
a gift for me in terms of watching people at
the top of their game. I've just been like sitting
there eating popcorn for most of it. But I loved
the understanding that like Brunner and Asher and the other
executive producers and particularly Sarah Scheller, who's our executive producer
and chief writerer, they all had spoke about the characters
(26:03):
as if they were real and the ideas they had
for the explorations.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It's like, yeah, it's like make believe. I loved it.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, And there's a protection I suppose, as you know,
someone who wrote on this, but also as a viewer
of Evelyn right because we know her, we know her context,
we know her family life, and in that way, I'm
interested Bruna too, getting to know this story more and
exploring her whole character. If you see pylons, cancelation, trolling,
(26:34):
I mean there's been cases just in the last week
where you see people and you go, oh, she's not
having a good time. This week has being a part
of this show changed.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
How you see that. Have you thought about it more,
have you noticed it more?
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Oh? Yeah, totally. I mean, well I've just noticed it
being in the world. Yeah, anyone else. I mean, you know,
it's kind of this it's a crazy time. And I
mean you asked ask you that question before. But like
I'm I have so much kind of you know, empathy
for people who put themselves out there. And that's one
of the things I think I just said to me
(27:09):
before because I'm starting to kind of you know, do
lots of content, just talk about the things I do
more and talk about things I'm interested in. And one
of the things I will never do is talk about
things I don't like, Yes, because I just think I
know how much work goes into something. I don't care
if I didn't like it or enjoy the experience of
reading or watching something. For me, I'll only talk about
(27:29):
things that I love because I do feel that. I
just feel that the world needs optimism right now. And
I think, particularly in our business, I don't know what
message we're sending to young people like we you know,
we just felt like we could do anything when we
were younger, and I feel like in our business it's
already hard to access it and to find a way in.
And now the world's just you know, the media is
(27:51):
just like more companies, you know, laying people off. You know, yes,
is it getting harder to make a TV show at
one hundred percent? But you know, is it going to
evolve and a young people are going to be able
to rise one hundred percent? So you know, I just
feel like it is our job to you know, kind
of protect that in a way, because yeah, it's so
much easier right clickbait to get ahead like a headline
(28:13):
and to cancel someone right there, to have a conversation.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
It's so easy to write a shiit review.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
It's so easy. I've got the same policy. I will
never say a book I didn't like television show. I
just think it's better just shut up.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Yeah, you love what you have, that's right, Lift up
what you love, what inspire, what's inspiring.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
There's enough content, Like it's fine, leave the other stuff alone.
It's not for you.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
But mea I'm interested with the trolling element, which is
a big thing in season two, is that Evelyn has
her sort of own own troll.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
What's been your experience of that and how.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
It's evolved over the years because you've had one troll,
I'm sure you've had two.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, it's actually.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
Got better for me personally, it's got better. I mean,
I'm sure there's somewhere that I can't see them, but.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I've got a fake name.
Speaker 7 (29:00):
I don't know how much of it is that I
give less fucks. And I don't read comments because I
mean sometimes I do, but I think that you learn
early on. You know, I've been working in digital media
for seventeen years, and it's not normal to know what
everyone thinks about you twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's just not and it's not normal to be able.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
To say what you think about everything and for have
those people read it. Like we're not designed for that.
And so I always am very separate. I don't do
anything for the response. I do it because I think
it's the right thing, and then I back myself. It's
not to say I'm always right, but if I'm in
(29:39):
a way disinterested from if I write anything personal or
disclose anything personal, not really interested in what people think
about it. I did it because I thought it could
help some people. It helped me process it. That's why
I put it out there. Yeah, so you know you listen,
but you don't listen too hard, if that makes sense, Ashua.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Do you read reviews?
Speaker 6 (30:02):
And yes, I read the good ones, so yeah, yeah
I do. Yeah, I mean I missed quite a lot
of press.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
I have to say.
Speaker 6 (30:17):
You know, there was a whole bunch of articles that
were sent to us yesterday collectively, and I looked, I
scanned all of them, went oh, I didn't know about that,
and I didn't know about this, and all right, I
was so and so and done that, and I read
a few reviews in there, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
I do.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
I mean, I've just I don't mind what people think.
I really don't.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I've never read a scaping.
Speaker 6 (30:40):
The only thing that ever impacted me was when I
was starting out in the theater at the MTC and
I had a whole it was sort of like the
third or fourth play I've ever done, right, And I
mean I had ten solid years in the theater there,
and I had all these fantastic reviews and the show
was being well accepted, well received, and then there was
(31:01):
one review that said, look, it was the smallest criticism
about one scene that I performed in the entire play,
and it really got me, and it really hurt and
I couldn't understand, and I let it impact on me.
I let it affect me and actually how I approached
the performance. Wow, So that's scary with theater because you've
(31:24):
got to go out there the next night and do it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
You haven't just delivered it.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Rhy. Do you think that impacted you?
Speaker 5 (31:28):
So?
Speaker 6 (31:28):
I think because I was really young, to be honest,
and I still hadn't I still hadn't found my center
in any way as an actor or as a woman,
or you know. I was twenty four, twenty three, twenty four.
But since that I did realize though, through the course
of the running of that play and performing it, that
(31:50):
is that is a complete and utter waste of my time.
And I'm not going to do that moving forward. And
I've never done it. I've never done it since because
it really hurt me someone else's opinion. I don't know
who that person was. I can't I remember their name now, but.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
It was one person.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Don't do this.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
If that's how you're going to feel, don't do that.
Don't do this, don't choose to do it.
Speaker 7 (32:11):
Because acting is about a lot of rejection. Any creative
you right, you get rejected.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I get rejected. I got rejected a lot when we
knew each other in my twenties getting it. I never
got rejected.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
Then no, I reviews, it's got great reviews.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
Yeah, that's for another whole podcast on its own. No
review thing is really interesting, and I think because I
of course you want good reviews, right, But I have
seen so many times with my own work, the stuff
that has really worked for me commercially is not always
the stuff that the critics have embraced, because I think
sometimes people feel that something's super commercial. Well that's possibly,
(32:51):
and also, don't forget the metrics are still that like
most reviewers are older white men. It is awful because
you know they are not necessarily the audience for what
we're all doing, not necessarily, and they will that they're personal.
Like that's the only thing that annoys me when I
read a review. When it's you can really feel like
it's an attack and you're like, come on, you can
(33:13):
have this, you can have an opinion, you.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Can So does that sting if you feel like it
has gone into like they've played the person rather than.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Yeah, it stings, but in a way that I'm like,
I kind of like, don't I mean I also, I've
been doing it long enough that I just don't think
you can you know, you can't worry about it. I
pay more attention to how many people are watching and
the women that come up to us, all the men
that come up to us after they've seen the show.
The best reviewer you will live again is when someone
comes up to you on the street and that's, oh
my god. I'd like, I had a girl come up
(33:41):
to meet a party reason because my god, I just
love it. You know, I love so much what you
do and it just meant so much to me, this
young woman because I was like, well, that's my that's
my audience. But I will say because I was in
La recently and Faye just came out in the UK,
and I'm such a super fan of like Asher and
Image and that, I was like email. I was like
trying to just collect all the good ones because I
(34:02):
was like.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Oh my god, what if they're seeing this?
Speaker 5 (34:04):
And I was so excited And that's what I mean. Yeah,
I mean, do I wish I produce that show? Sure?
And they asked me, no, they did not. Am I
working with them both on something else? Yes? You know,
because but I just you know, that's that's where I'm
not competitive, but I do have professional jealousy.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
That's okay, that's helped me.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Yeah, you're very happy for the people I love.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
Yeah yeah, but it doesn't stop you from putting it
out there all over social media and saying, look what
my friends did.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I'm so proud. Like you are the best in that way.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
If you want good recommendations, follow Brune on Instagram. Shit, yeah,
very very good.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
Can I just say something about just you made me
think of something before about putting your opinions out there.
One of the reasons that I love Out Loud so
much is because you're all you'll have quite different opinions,
and like, I love the conversation and I've found myself
in the car so many times it's so new to
me where I'm like, I wanted to call Jesse up
and goes, oh my god, you are so right, I
(34:57):
hate and then the other ones where I'm like, Jesse,
you you don't understand.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, understand that all the time.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
I was right about that. But it's an amazing forum
that you created because it because you were putting your
opinions out there, but because it's in context and in conversation.
I think it's like, it's kind of an amazing way
to heat.
Speaker 7 (35:21):
And it's very different to writing an opinion story, which
Jesse and I don't do anymore. We've spent a lot
of years like everybody else who was working women's maybe online,
which which is so much of what season two talks
about putting yourself out there. You know, those years around
the mid twenty teens were when you had to have
strong opinions and you had to have them fast, and
(35:44):
you had to do personal essays about things that are
really intimate, things that have happened to you. And that
was what the Internet demanded at the time, and we
certainly published a lot of that, and we would. I
think that's part of why we're more boundary now. It's
not that time anymore, and a lot of us got really,
really burnt and we explore that and.
Speaker 6 (36:06):
It's dangerous, which we explore in the season two. It
can be become extremely.
Speaker 7 (36:12):
Good for the person who's who's putting it out there.
Podcasts are different, but writing that stuff we all learnt
by trial and error.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, what it could do.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
I wanted to ask you Brune about because this as
series is also a lot about ambition, as was Season one,
and as someone who has lived and worked in the
US and in Australia, people talk about tall poppy syndrome.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Is ambition different in Australia?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Is it something that do the Evelyn Jones Is get
punished in Australia in a way they wouldn't in Americas.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I mean, I've noticed it having been gone twenty years,
and there is definitely a tall poppy is a real thing.
I even found it when I came back. It was
like write in Covid and it was Gladys and Anastasia
where the premier premiers the premieres, and I even found
like watching like the media, the way they pitted them
(37:05):
against each other. I was like, what is this place like?
And it was just interesting. And I do find that
ambitions is not a dirty word in America. I think
that's one of the reasons I really always wanted to
go live in America is because they don't care. They
don't really care where you came from or you've done. Like,
if you work hard and you know you're kind of
good at what you do, they will let you rise,
(37:28):
you know, And I think that you know, having kind
of grown up in that system and then come back here.
I'm definitely much more reticent to, you know, put myself
out there here and say, you know, it is different here.
I think, yes, Australia, because I think people, I just
feel like someone's going to, you know, if it's weird,
is people are going to.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Occasionally in an interview I get asked about this, and
I always find it mildly insulting from being really honest.
Why didn't you go and try your luck in Hollywood?
Why haven't you gone and worked overseas?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Why didn't you do that?
Speaker 6 (38:08):
Why didn't you take the opportunity unities if you offered them? Well,
because I have had an incredible path here in my
own country. Every project I've worked on, I've believed in
and I've really wanted to make. I mean that's rare,
you know for an actor I've had.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
It wouldn't be.
Speaker 6 (38:27):
Too much to ask for to be acknowledged for that success,
the successful light of life I've built here as in
my industry, As opposed to questioning why I didn't do
it on an international scale, I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Are you somehow disappointed?
Speaker 6 (38:43):
It's somehow disappointed or something. I find it an interesting
question I understand the curiosity. I mean, the great answer
to it now is, look, the streaming services have changed
everything in our work does now push out internationally fabulous?
It's so great, So we can be in this incredible
country and work. You know, But it's an interesting question
to try and answer without feeling not good enough or
(39:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
Is there ever a moment where it's like I've got
to make a decision do I go to stay?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (39:11):
Yeah, I think I've spoken to you to you about
it then.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I probably was one of the ones that asked that, No,
you didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Just it's an all question. It's a question that just
gets last all the time. It just you just sparked
that thought then.
Speaker 4 (39:24):
And there is an inherent there was a disrespect about
actually what Australia means. It's devaluing.
Speaker 6 (39:30):
Well, I just don't want it to devalue the work
that we make here.
Speaker 5 (39:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
I think the work we make here.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Is great, and I think the work that the productions
I've been involved with here are memorable. People still talk
about them twenty years later. Love my Wife is an example.
Can we not talk about appreciating the stuff that we
have made Yeah. Anyway, it's an interesting thing, and that
sounds maybe I've got a bit of a chip on
my shoulder about that topic. But again, you know, there
(39:56):
was a moment where, yes, there was a clear choice.
I was on a plane to New York pretty quickly
after Offspring and very excited. I was very much alone,
had no response abilities. I was I was going to
go and live overseas, but just to see what it
felt like. And I had some connections over there, I
(40:16):
got an agent or whatever, and then I met Vincent
and Luca, and the choice was very clear to me
to stay. And within literally within a month, I was
offered another incredible show here to do, and I thought, Okay,
well that's just what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
I mean, that's life, isn't it. Those parts.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
There is more to my conversation with the team behind
Strife after this shortbreak. We talk about the balls they
feel they are currently dropping.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
I wanted to ask sort of about.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Your relationship as well, Brenna and Ashat, because you've this
is not the first project you've worked on.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
I don't think it'll be the last one. Lessons, but
being some kind.
Speaker 5 (41:06):
Of few no falling out here, there's been a major
of you to feel.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
What I want to know is Asher, why do you
like working with Bruna?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
What is about Bruno? I know it's hard to.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The other way.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
No, it's easy to talk about in front of her
because she knows that I feel like this.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We just text you know, I love you. I love
you more yesterday from different countries because.
Speaker 7 (41:39):
We came to that too, because there was a photo
of me and Asha together and I just brought up
with Bruno being I love you because.
Speaker 6 (41:46):
We can be like that with each other now. Because
do you know what that is? That is trust? So
my favorite thing about Bruna is that really and truly
heart is on sleeve and she wants to say something
to She's going to say it right to anyone, don't.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Matter who you are. But if you're her.
Speaker 6 (42:06):
Professional partner and friend, the level of trust that you
ask for and the investment that you ask for, I
think this is what I like the most because I
really understand it and I need it too. The level
of investment that you ask for, the commitment, the rigor is,
it's it's really straight. That's that's that's what I wanted.
(42:29):
That's the way Bruna likes to work that's the way
I like to work too. So this is like a
match made in heaven. Really, we just go. We just
meet each other and it's easy, and we know we
do generally align as well, like our opinion, our taste
in drama and people and themes is very similar. Then
(42:50):
Steve steps in the middle and goes middle of us
and I don't know, but how about this we've shut
up the.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
No, we don't. He's got an amazing if you mean
too always how.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
About you, Brunow? Why do you love working with Ashaston?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
This is in the last week.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I'm kidding.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
I mean obviously we met, you know on the first
time we work together was Nine Perfect Strangers. I was
a die hard Offspring fan, Like was the only show
Stephen I watched together, and I was probably getting it,
Like I should never say this out loud, I'm going
to say publicly, like I think my mother was sending
it to me because I couldn't get it in America
at that time, and I was like, You've got to
send me Offspring. So I was such a die hard fan.
(43:26):
And then when we came to casting that major role
in Nine Perfect Nicole also was a die hard fan,
So that was like that that's where the kind of
you know, that first time working together was so special
also because it was during COVID and you know, playing
this astounding role. And then I mean, I am a
person who if I love working with someone, I will
(43:47):
do it over and over.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yeah you have favorite s.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Yeah I do have particular favorites, but what I love
is you know, and then obviously Lost Flowers happened, and
Asher also had previous relationship with Glendon, so you know,
there was this that was kind of an amazing experience.
But I remember strife and I was like, oh, going
to want to do something it's more comedic, and I
was kind of reticent to bring it up. And then
she's like, well, you know, I remember like being on
(44:12):
set with you and You're like, yeah, of course, like
of course I'll read it, Like why wouldn't I read it?
And like I was like kind of overjoyed. But I
feel the same way. I mean number one, and add
Sarah Sheller to this mix because she is we are
all very so I'm probably the oldest, but like you know,
I am the oldest, but we're in the same We're
in the same kind of age bracket as a mayor,
(44:34):
and it is such a gre It's so great when
everyone's having the same conversation. But I will tell you,
you know, I worked with many actors producing, and I've
been really lucky that I've had a lot of repeat
relationships with actors who are in something producing. But no
one works harder than national as a producer and as
an actor. No one is more prepared, no one cares
more like I mean, she's like, we're an edit, You're
(44:57):
like she I mean, I'll be struggling to remember the footage, like,
oh my god, maybe we should use that shop. But
I'm not. I'm good on big picture, but on specifics.
This one, no, every single frame of every shot. You know,
she has instincts about how something should sound, how something
should feel. You know, she wants to support and bring
(45:18):
up other people. So she's an amazing producer, which is
why we're doing lots more of it, because even beyond
and that's why I was so happy when I saw Fake,
honestly and a little bit jealous because is a really
good producer, because it just you could see a much
love and care. I don't think that's what people underestimate
a lot of every there's thousands and thousands of tiny decisions.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
That got moment by moment by moment. It's so important
to me. It would sit on these calls and be.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Like, I just kill want to call you out.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Literally goes like I just on these calls.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
I muted myself because they go on like but this
is what's so amazing is that you guys just don't
you like your level of attention to detail and endurance.
Like I'll watch it the first time and I'll go
that was it good, and I've got a couple notes,
But then.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
You have to watch it like twenty more times.
Speaker 7 (46:12):
And so then there'd be these long zooms and this
one zoom we were on and there were all these
people's and I just was like doing something else, and
then Bruns talking and then I just heard but I
want to hear what Maya thinks about that?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And I spent like a little child like this, and
I raised my head. Do I try and fake it
or like I have no idea. I hadn't been listened.
I've just actually been my email. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 7 (46:40):
I'm so bored that sorry.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
I'm so bored. You guys are amazing.
Speaker 7 (46:47):
I just I'm just I'm looking at my emails because
I'm so bored. So nice they didn't throw to me ever, again,
it was great and you were but the level of
and of course they're working on lots of other projects
at the time, you know, and they have that attention
to detail and working as a group.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
The details, the fun.
Speaker 7 (47:10):
That's job You've got that is totally understand things too.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
But that is our main Yeah, to be fair.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
My final question was about so your book work balance
called you wanted to call it balances bullshit originally, Yeah,
And I wanted to ask, so you're all married, you've
got kids, you've got big jobs.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
What ball or balls are are you currently dropping? How
is balanced failing you in this moment? Maya, What are
you doing badly at the moment?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Oh, there's not enough bandwidth on the internet. List of things?
What am I doing badly?
Speaker 7 (47:57):
I'm failing as a daughter, I'm failing as a daughter
in law.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I'm failing as a wife. I'm failing as a mother. Yeah,
usually pretty much. I'm failing as a homemaker.
Speaker 7 (48:08):
I'm probably failing as a bar like I don't feel great.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
About myself most of the time.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
This makes me sad hearing this, not in.
Speaker 7 (48:17):
A torture like not, but it's but I'm pretty exciting
of the fact that I shouldn't stay failing, but I
feel inadequate. But I'm also like kind of used to that,
and I just think that's the default. And that's why
balance is bullshit, because if the expectation is that you
should be balanced, when you're not, you feel like you're failing.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
So I've internalized it, and in actual fact, I'm just
doing my best.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
Women are dropping countless balls every day. It's just what
ball you choose to drop.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
That's right or multiple. I mean, I'm the same. I
don't I know what you mean about the feeling like
you're failing. I have daily moments like that, no matter
what area it is, and I think, oh, gosh, you
just could have Why didn't you just do that differently?
With Voul the teen year old who's a boy as
well and experiencing really interesting things at the moment, Why
(49:08):
couldn't you have done it different? What was it that
made you attack that in a certain way. I do
this all the time as a parent, there's no doubt
about it. But also in all those different ways you
just mentioned. But I just think the whole thing is simple.
The balance thing is completely elusive. It's absolute bullshit. I
couldn't agree more. I don't reach for it anymore. I
(49:31):
feel so much better that I don't as well, because God,
I was trying to when I first became a mother,
in particular in my early forties, I was desperate for
no one to see that I was in any way
challenged or struggling or I mean, I just it's such
a relief to not apologize for it anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Because it's not real. We can't do it.
Speaker 6 (49:53):
We've got to drop the expectations completely.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
How about you, Brune, I even never failed anything.
Speaker 5 (49:58):
I mean, it is my favorite subject because I balance
as bullshit, and I talk about it all the time,
and oh, I think I fail all the time. I think.
I mean, my my kids would tell you. They would say, like,
because I'm on. I mean, I've just been away from them,
for I just got back yesterday and I've not been
in Sydney since March twentieth. Now my kids came to
(50:19):
see me. But I think you have to. I think
you cannot thrive at one thing and not something else
doesn't stuffer. So for me, I've been really focused on
my health because as you and I both have whatever
you and stuff, so we have to focus on that.
For years, I didn't, and I was trying to be
a mother and I was trying to run my company,
so that's been a focus. But then of course, you know,
(50:41):
just generally my kids get you know, less time. Thank god,
I have a husband who has been the you know,
the main physical caregiver to my children, because if I
didn't have that, I could not do the other things.
And I think one of the things about filming, and
I know Asha feels this too. Yes, I miss my
kids when I'm away filming, when I'm in a five
star hotel, sitting on set all day, getting to make things,
(51:07):
so five things. But it is well, I feel like
when I'm there, I'm there, and then when I'm here,
I can be more here. And I know that Ashery
experiences that is very different when you are filming at home,
which you know you don't do that often. You're trying
to balance going home being a mother. And in Ash's case,
I don't have to learn any lines just to go
home and work for hour.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
I made hours a day.
Speaker 6 (51:29):
I made fake that way in my hometown Melbourne, balance
performing fake producing that as well coming home having to
keep working.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I have to, I must.
Speaker 6 (51:39):
But little ones there, the little ones, they're looking at me, going,
could you please make that dinner? Could you please make
that dinner? Yep, I can, you know. But it's the
that's that's a hard shot.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
It's doing, it's being in two places at once. It's
like when you when you're being a mother, you want
to be a mum. When you're at work, you want
to be at work. But it's trying to do both
of those things. And I think that's why COVID was
so hard for a.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Lot of people.
Speaker 5 (52:01):
But that's well, that's why mothers say weekends are the
most exhausting. I mean, I remember when my maybies were little.
I'd get to Monday and I skip off to that
off this. I'd be like, oh my god, this is
so easy.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Jesse, what balls? Oh my god, so many ball You're
quite new to this. I remember when you were just before.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. Well let's just say
this interview was prepared very last minute, but I think
it's gone all right. But what do you think?
Speaker 2 (52:26):
What do you what do you you know?
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Oh, definitely, Like, so exercise drops off, that's something you're
you're still eating. It's just like when was the last
time I gave Mam a phone call? Like, I've probably
been a bitch to you today for no reason.
Speaker 2 (52:38):
Do you know what I'm nailing being your grandmother?
Speaker 1 (52:40):
You are?
Speaker 4 (52:41):
That's the ball that you are not happy because I'm
dropping the ball as a mother.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
I'm nailing that.
Speaker 7 (52:46):
You're really loving but I'm just loving it. And also
the expectations are really low. It's like being on this
show for me, but that you know what I mean,
All you have to do is just kind of love
and go.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
That's great, and that's literally my job. It's very easy.
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Yeah, thank you so much, thank you for joining for
joining me. Nob have a draft during the process this
that not even No No you.
Speaker 6 (53:13):
Held onto that I was going to steal it from you.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
I cannot wait for everyone to watch this new season
strife on Binge. It was such a privilege to keep
Kate's seat warm and to speak to three of my
favorite people, Asha Brunner and Maya about this incredible project.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
I should just drop.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
In that episode two season two, Claire, my twin sister,
and I wrote that one, so better be your favorite.
You can watch Strife season two now on Binge and
I just know you are going.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
To love it.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown. The
senior producer is Grace Ruvray, with audio production by Jacob Brown.
Kate will be back in your ears on Monday.
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