June 15, 2025 • 65 mins
On paper, Vincent Fantauzzo’s life looks perfect. He’s one of Australia’s most celebrated portrait artists, winning the People’s Choice Award at the Archibald Prize four times. His subjects have included some of Australia’s biggest names - Heath Ledger, Baz Luhrmann, Matt Moran - and his work hangs in galleries, private collections, and museums around the world.
He’s married to beloved actress Asher Keddie, they’re raising two boys together, and from the outside, it looks like Vincent has it all. But his real story is far more complicated.
In this conversation, Vincent opens up about the trauma he’s carried since childhood: neglect, abuse, crime, poverty and the trauma that shaped him long before he ever picked up a paintbrush.
He speaks about growing up completely illiterate, the violence he witnessed and was part of as a teenager, and how boxing became the unlikely path that led him to art, and ultimately, to healing.
This is a conversation about survival, love, redemption, and the parts of someone’s story you’ll never see just by looking at their life from the outside.
You can follow Vincent and find his book, Unveiled, here:
https://www.instagram.com/vincent_fantauzzo/?hl=en
If this conversation brought up any hard feelings for you - please seek help. You can reach Lifeline on 13 11 14
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CREDITS:
Guests: Vincent Fantauzzo
Host: Kate Langbroek
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Bree Player
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
On My kid goes for a sleepover and I can't sleep.
Or you know, you're getting married and you think about
you lose your virginity, you kiss someone for the first
time anything, You meet someone and you see something and
you're suspicious and they might not deserve your suspicion and
(00:38):
you have to think like that.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hi, I'm Kate lane Brook. Welcome to No Filter on
Paper or on Canvas. A renowned and commercially successful portrait
artist who shot to art world fame with his two
thousand and eight portrait of friend and actor Heath Ledger,
with which he won the People's Choice Award at the
(01:10):
fabled Archibald Prize. He hasn't stopped winning prizes since. His
subjects have included notable figures such as Brandon Walters, Matt
Moran and Baz Lureman, and perhaps his greatest prize, his
better half, National Treasure and beloved actress Asha Kedy. Together,
(01:33):
the couple raised Luca Vincent's first child along with their
son Valentino, but behind Vincent's seemingly charmed life was a
childhood of neglect, abuse, crime and poverty. And friends, we
do talk about these things in detail, so listen mindfully.
(01:55):
After a lifetime of bearying the traumatic realities of his past,
Vincent wrote his memoir Unveiled. In this emotionally raw conversation,
I had the privilege of speaking with Vincent about the
shame and trauma he's lived with since boyhood. He shares
what it was like to endure an abusive upbringing, what
(02:17):
it was like to go through school completely illiterate, and
his teenage encounters with violence and crime. He also tells
of how boxing became the unexpected pathway to art, which
ultimately saved him. We talk about his marriage to Asher,
his role as a father, and how the ghosts of
(02:38):
his past have maintained a choke hold on him despite
the fact that he managed to draw his way out
of that life. I also got to surprise Vincent with
a truly beautiful message from his wife Asher that has
us both reaching for the tissues. Vincent is living proof
that you can never truly know someone's journey from how
(03:01):
it may look from the outside. Here is Vincent Vantuzzo.
Vincent Vantuzzo, Fantatzo and Tusa. Welcome to No Filter. So
you have written this book called Unveiled, and it's about
(03:22):
your life as a little boy in pain, as a
big boy in pain, and your life as a boy
who grew up in Australia and yet couldn't read It's
it's such an extraordinary story. And I have never seen
(03:43):
a book that at the back has got so many
social support.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Something about myself. I need a lot of support, you know,
I just I wouldn't know where to start. But part
of doing a book was I felt very I guess
lonely as a kid because I didn't know where to
go or who to explain things to. And I thought,
if someone does read it and they feel a certain way,
(04:13):
then maybe call one eight hundred to get some help.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Tell me about your when you were growing up. So
your family came out from England where you were born,
your Irish mum, you're an Italian dad, and you ended
up in a very very working class suburb in Melbourne
and it was a tough life.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's a bit the wild West where you know, I
know there's a tougher places, but in my little mind,
you know, I was afraid people are going to break
into our house. Every day. There was violence in the street.
I mean you could walk down the street and you
can hear the domestic violence, like it's you're walking past
(05:00):
different domestic violence display homes was like all over the place.
People would fight their people in the middle of the
commission housing kind of grass area. The phone box got
broken every day. If you went to the milk burrow
of the fish and chip shop, someone had stand guard.
(05:21):
You went to the swimming pool, you do a lap,
have a fight, do a lap, have a fight. It
was really like you couldn't escape it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You become a boxer during that time.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes, during it a little bit later, but because of
that time, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
That you learned to that physical strength would be a
way to protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah. So even more so than physical strength. The psychology
of making people think, you know, fucking crazy was the
was the strategy, because the bullies pick on people that
are vulnerable, and I had some pretty vulnerable situations. There's
(06:03):
a couple of reasons, but one was I knew that
if I appeared that way, then the fight's half. One.
I would whack myself in the face and pull my
own hair and kind of you know, it's like really,
but the whole thing was an act all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And what was going on inside obviously this fear, but
also an urge to protect your mom from your dad,
who was a dark person.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And emotionally, yeah, you know what was really hard was
physical abuse. You know what's happening, but they can hide
it from you. The controlling side of thing, which really
gets to me, the emotional abuse, verbal and controlling abuse
where you know, you see your mum is a prisoner
(06:56):
and scared, and you know, when you watch a movie,
if you see every part of a scene, it can
have less impact than what you don't see. It's what
you know is happening behind the doors or at night
when you're sleep and you know you can't see it,
but you don't. You know it's that and also no
one explaining it to you.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So the imaginings, yeah, but based on what you know
is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, but then you think about you know, things happened
to me and no one knew, but how could they not?
If I get emotional, it's because it's I never really
talked out loud about a lot of things that are
in a book until recently. And it's still kind of
hard to talk about. What I'm talking about is the
(07:45):
abuse that happened to me that no one knew about.
He's the same thing like that happens to a lot
of women, kids, and shit happens, and you know, people
either don't notice or they pretend not to. And throughout
my life a lot of stuff was swept under the rug.
(08:06):
I just got fucking sick of it, and I thought,
you know, I got to I write it down and
then I have to talk about it, and you know
I'm talking about but yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of
people would know you through your work, particularly you know
that it's a famous portrait of Heath Ledger, the beautiful
Three Shades of Heat. And I think there's a tendency
for people to think when people are successful, that everything's
(08:39):
been perfect for them, or everything's been laid out for them.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, look how good looking is And I will say,
look at beautiful wife, look at his beautiful Childrendren.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But your tale is so far removed from that. But
not only that, there was always, even as you were
this young boy in these really terrible and terrifying circumstances,
there was something in you that wanted more, Yeah, and
(09:18):
still want more, and it's not you know, I know
there's different ways of describing success, And to me, the
ultimate is that one day my kids look at me
and they they're proud of me, and they say they
love me. That's my ultimate success.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But growing up when you don't have a lot, you know,
I wanted a way to get out and to be successful.
Turns out that painting was my way.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So there were five of you kids, There was your
father who.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Was He kind of disappeared halfway through.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, and left you really to slip into another level
of poverty.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
What he did was my You know, when you control someone,
it only lasts for so long, you know, and my
was brave enough at some point to leave, and he
wanted us to blame my mom, so he made it
extra extra hard. He didn't pay one cent to child support.
You know, he quit his company so he didn't have to.
(10:26):
You know. He preferred to be earning nothing and give
nothing and to make us for resent her. And for
a little while it worked, and you know he kind of.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wise up to that as well, and you ended up
the five of you living in a housing commission flat
that your house that your mom had.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
She hustled her way in. You know, I kind of
get sick of having to hustle and the thought of
her having to do her whole life. But I think
there were four of us kids at that point, and
my mom my mom slept on the couch, you know,
and I just look at what it takes to survive is,
you know, for a single mom na's situation, And it's
(11:11):
kind of why when she's missed a few things, you know,
I don't know if she missed them or if Yeah, right,
so you know what it's like you're a mum for
But if someone was making it very hard for you
and you're living in a shit hole and you can't
I don't have time to work, and or you're working
as much as you can, it's not much. So you know,
(11:33):
some things can you can miss or you just can't
deal with.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I guess have you ever asked your mum? I'm kind
of afraid to upset her. That's that's a really common thing.
I think. Also when you know that thing, the point
that you get to as an adult where you realize
the shortcomings of your own parents because of your own
shortcomings as a parent often I still don't understand.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
There's a couple of things that bother me. But yeah,
I also you know I can, I can leave them.
I don't need an explanation. I kind of know.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Has your mom read the book?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, she wouldn't have read the book. There's some shit
in there that I think should have been talked about.
But as you know, same things never happened. Nothing ever happened.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Well, because you know, the story of you is like
parallel Vincent's on different tracks and kind of all moving
in the same direction. But one track is pain, and
one track is dyslexia, and one track is this boy
(12:43):
who wants out and is a brilliant artist, even from
a really young age. But if you want to talk
about people slipping through the cracks, this is like a
couple of passages in this book really struck me. One
is about your father, but this one. From the primary
(13:05):
grades right through until I left high school, I never
passed a class. I didn't even get an E. I
simply received no grades at all. I never read a book,
not that I didn't want to, and I couldn't copy
work from the blackboard into my exercise books. I never
once did homework. I didn't even know the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I was never sure whether it was blackboard or
backboard because I couldn't spell it. But I think about
my own kids, and you know, it's funny I read
to them, they read to me. Really. Yeah, we did
miss the men books in different accents each page. It's fun.
I make up stories. But I know if my yeah,
(13:53):
I know what's going on with my kids, and I
just think, I mean, you can miss a few things.
But I couldn't even spell my own address. I don't know.
I can't remember if I could even spell my own name.
I didn't know what day it was. I couldn't even
spell the days of the week, you know how like
it's it's one of the questions. It's like did you know?
(14:17):
Or you know? Did you I thought I was. I
really thought I was stupid, you know. And for a
kid to for no one to say, oh, you know,
we'll work on it. No one read a book to me,
So you think, am I case that people have given
(14:37):
up on? And you know, I was in a special
class and all those things. But at the same time
I was popular, maybe for the wrong things, and I
could have a conversation and I just thought, you know,
what the fuck's going on, Like, why why isn't anyone
Why isn't anyone saying anything? And even the teachers, you know,
(14:59):
they put you in a different class. I'd recess at
a different time. I don't know how it got through it.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Tell me how you found your way to the boxing,
or how the boxing found you.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I may have been at a friend's place after school
and we walk past this suburban boxing gym is like
a backyard gym, Jack Ronnie gym, backyard gym that trained
world champions, pretty amazing, and we walked past and I
just looked in there and it's just like it called
out to me. Yeah, even you know, it's funny. Maybe
(15:37):
I am very emotional, but it's funny the things that
bring out the emotion. Yeah, just the thought that you
spend your whole life like sucking it stuff and then
you know you, Yeah, it's like a you don't realize
that you can find something special in the most simple places.
(15:58):
When you're a kid and your self confidence is low,
you're looking desperately for a place. And if you're good
at being bad and you get encouraged by your mates,
then you become more bad. If you're the class clown,
you become a little bit funnier. And I was happy
to get kicked out of class as often as possible
because it meant I didn't have to face doing the schoolwork.
(16:19):
So that's what I did. And I became you know,
get into a fight and I'd win, and that meant okay,
Now I know my currency.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And you had a certain like cuteos, a certain prestige.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I built it very high throughout my teens. I was.
It kind of makes me laugh because you know, I
was trained very hard, and I was strong and wiry.
I was so sadly so violent that you know not
I was never a bully, but I would do whatever
(16:55):
it takes not to lose my position. So if that
meant knives, bats, picket fences, bowles, bottles like, I would
do whatever it takes because I'm not losing. And I
think it made me, i mean, have a very competitive spirit.
And I chose the wrong place to kind of use it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, you didn't have anyone to show you another place
at that point to channel yourself. Didn't have your dad.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, he was part of teaching me that as well,
so he taught me in every way to take shortcuts,
like there was you never do the right thing. You know,
he was just a cheat all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Because it says you talk about one of the things
that observations you make about him in your book, and
it's interesting because you're a dad now, was that he
never read a book to you. He never kicked a ball,
he never shared and watched a movie with you. He
never took you fishing. He never did anything. The only
thing he taught you to.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Do was he took me fishing once and it was
a fishing competition with other dads and families, and he
took me to a trout farm, bought the fish, rubbed
it in some dirt, said, and we won a competition.
So he just taught me again to cheat. Missed out
in the fishing part and one, yeah, that's right. So
(18:21):
it didn't really win anything.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And because of that, So because of this absence and
a boy craves his father.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I still do. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, But when you found yourself in the boxing gym
with Jack older man, so.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Jack said, if he saw that I was good at boxing,
and for the first time I got to use the
stuff that I could do well in a positive way.
I was winning fights right away. I felt like I'd
finally found something that comes completely natural that I can
be proud of. And he said, if you get in,
(19:06):
if you get into fights outside of this gym, I
understand if you back in against you all, you're defending yourself.
If you be you know that guy, you're not training here.
And it was the first time anyone really set boundaries
for me. And it was a very special feeling.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And you understood that straight away.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I was desperate for it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
How much of you did he see at that point?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Interestingly, just after Australian story, I had a really amazing
email from his son who said his Jack's passion and
what he was very good at is helping youse that
we're in trouble and a lot of the kids at
the gym where I don't know any of this. He
also was secretly a very passionate artist, which I find
that he didn't share with people. And I think we
(19:52):
had a lot of stuff in common, as you know
people growing up, so he I think he identified me
and he it's very clever that he without throwing too
much attention on you, so you feel, you know, like
a performance anxiety he was able to encourage me and
(20:13):
set some boundaries without too many that you would rebel.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Coming up after this break, Vincent tells us about getting
kicked out of school and what he refers to as
his apprenticeship in the world of crime. What was going
on at school at that time or you were still
trying to make a qud to help out your mom
(20:46):
and to help out yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
By thirteen, I was kicked out of school. And again,
you kick a kid out of school and they got
nowhere to go, and no one says you have to
go to school anymore. And you're thirteen, Like my kid's
fifteen now, I can't imagine what he would do. And
so thirteen about turn fourteen, no school, a lot of
(21:08):
you know, because just stupid. Maybe you're doing an apprenticeship.
That's what people used to say. Become a hairdresser, a
beautician or doing it, you know, become a mechanic or
some kind of apprentice, and then you get you know,
you just get paid ship money as child labor, which
is what happened for years in restaurants. My dad said, well,
(21:28):
the first time I'll step in and I'll get you
a job. Got me a job with the Dodgy Brothers
pizza business.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Because the one thing your dad had done or you
had learnt from him, was to cook.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, so I still love cooking a cook almost every day,
and I do it with the kids and Asher cooks.
And you know this, When I walk into a restaurant,
I smell the food. It's the one positive memory that
I've created. I think about my dad, He's an incredible cook,
and all my family for generations and cooks and chefs,
(22:02):
I think it's you know.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The site.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
They make incredible mashed potato again, Generations pie for their quisine.
My mom can cook. So you didn't really teach me.
I obsessively watched and asked a lot of questions like hey,
did how about this? I generally I must have been
an annoying kid because I couldn't read and write. I
(22:29):
asked fuck, I asked a lot of questions like I
do I remember now people saying you ask a lot
of questions.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So that didn't work out. Dodgy Brother's restaurant didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So again I learned. It was like going You know
when someone goes to jail and they learned dodgy shit,
That's what I learned from them like they were proper.
It got worse. I got another job in a peacher shop.
There were drug dealers. They were actually so the first ones.
They were not nice people. They treated me badly. They
(22:59):
worked me seven year, eighty hours a week. I was
fourteen year fourteen. I used to deliver pizzas in the
waitresses cars and they would let me. That was kind
of a good part, but sometimes I did all nighters. Anyway,
these guys were so dodgy they burnt down their pizza
shop and one of them cooked themselves in the process.
Insurance job.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Wow, not over cooking pizzas. I also end up being
a life insurance job.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yes, so I knew how to cook. I couldn't read
the menu. I don't know what people were getting in
their meals if it matched the menu. But they were
good pastors. That was popular. Yeah. Later I got a
job in another pizza shop. They would deal drugs and
I would help them and i'd sell. And you know,
I think I was getting to sixteen or something now,
(23:46):
and I remember I was moving a chair and it
rattled and I suck my hand in there. Oh, then
there's a gun. I'm like, oh cool now, I'm going
next level. So I kept it. Yes, I put in
a pizza box and took it home. And now I'm
you know, you know, already in trouble and I got
a gun. Yeah, and I didn't hurt anyone with the
(24:09):
but I could have. And I look at back to
where we were somewhere before that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
That's different taking you.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, So I did my apprenticeship in crime, and I
was good at it. And you know the forks in
the road that kids can take, and I was at
that point where, you know, I would have been very
good down that dark road.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
But you didn't want it. And this is I find
so interesting. So even though everything could have pointed you
that way, there was nobody really aside from your boxing coach,
who believed in you or expected anything from you at
(24:53):
that point.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The criminals believed in me too, Ye, that was the problem.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But yeah, you didn't want their belief in you. And
there was a time when you you completely turned your
back on that. And it was a real like you said,
a fork in the road. But all this time you're
drawing and you've got your cousin, You're at your nose
pastigiity where he's yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I had a great cousin, Enzo, who encouraged me and
taught me to draw, gave me confidence again, one of
the first people. Just a good person. And the problem
with drawing and art and still a problem, is that
it doesn't provide like it doesn't look like an opportunity
for a way out.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Tell me about the moment when you first made money
from your ash.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There was a couple of moments. Well, firstly, I wanted
to thank Jack Renie for being my coach, so I
drew him a drawing he didn't know I could draw
drawing of Lona Rose and Johnny Vamajon And now I know.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Why who he'd coached.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yes, so he was the coach of world champions and
I see them in the gym. You know when I
was fighting, Lona Rose would sit in the corner sometimes
and it was really special. Wow. So I did this
drawing and I know now because he was a secret artist,
why it hit him And he said, oh, this is
(26:18):
like maybe it was kind of insulting, but not. He said,
maybe a better at drawing and boxing.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Thanks, but you're a good boxer, so if you're even
better at drawing, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Actually I hadn't lost a fight, so that's that's a
great call. Yeah, and we did it. So he took
that painting that was a sketch. He asked me to
do a painting, took it to the Boxing Hall of Fame.
We made Prince Elonroz and Johnny Famjoon signed them. Some
money went to a charity, and someone went to me
and I got paid. And then I started to say, oh,
(26:52):
sports to memorabilia, that's art, That's what I thought. And
I started to paint like Mornie, who later became a friend.
Finally I painted a few like Kyler Minoka friend as well.
I did a sketch of her. I lined up for
three hours to get her to sign. I haven't told
her this story because I didn't want it to know
how much younger I was. But I lined up and
got to sign it, and then I'd sell it. So
(27:13):
I was kind of trying to make money off well
however I could doing pictures, and then I started doing
portraits of people.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And then, incredibly, and I say incredibly, given that we
know where, we know where young Vincent is and where
he's come from, you wanted to study art.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know. I just wanted to say that I had
an education again, it just felt dumb. It's like, you know, people,
I just do you know HCBC whatever it was at
that time, And I was like, you know, I couldn't
tell people I never passed class, didn't even finish your nine.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Could you read at this point at all?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No? So I still don't read well. But what I've
learned to do is so writing down things is a problem.
Reading Now, I can skim read very fast, and I
see words and sentences as pictures. I recognize all the pictures,
and somehow your brain very quickly put some into context
(28:20):
and you can read. So I can read my text messages.
And then I replied with voice to text, which can
come up with some funny stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And so you went to RT yes, and you got
into the after a few false starts. You applied a
few times.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yep, I lied again, So all my life feeling like
another liar to get success, I lied, made up a
fake report, talk my way in. After a few attempts,
when I saw what you actually have to do, So
then I'm in there.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Because interestingly, some people might think, oh, to go to
art school, you've just got to be good at art.
But they also expect this academic side of you.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, you know, and I respect the history of art
and people articulating art like I get it and it's important.
But I hadn't even been to an art gallery. You know,
I didn't know who Picasso was. I don't know anything.
I still don't know a lot about art history. But
you apparently meant it's a visual language. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So you're studying art. How are you received amongst I'm
going to say a very middle class, kind of privileged
clutch of people.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's very much that. Now I'm not here to judge
who goes there, but there was a lot of very
privileged kids with you know, an account at the art
store and some of them even a driver, and you know,
and there was older students who kind of had done
well in their financial life, and then they went back
(29:52):
to university. And then there was me. And here I
am again in school, having to lie and not be
able to pass anything. So I started history. I can't
do it at all, So I started to get paid
for doing portraits and pay people to do my essays.
(30:12):
Even resorted to, you know, selling drugs, which I don't
condone to pay my way through like.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Whatever it took, because you always had this quality even
when you're at your most lost. People I'm going to
say special people for shorthand special people saw the special
in you even when you didn't see it in yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's funny. I think good energy draws good energy and positivity,
adventurous energy. Also bad energy draws it brings in bad energy.
And I think I had the right energy to, you know,
give out to the right people. And I still do it,
like I have a lot of All this shit happened
(30:59):
and I've come out the other end with I have
the most amazing family people around me. It's kind of
like I created my own little thing.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And even when you were saying earlier that you know,
when you were at school and you were you'd learned
to be good at being bad because you couldn't be
good at being good Normally, those kids are not liked. Normally,
those kids are not popular, but you were popular and
people liked you. It's a very unusual, just a very
likable But I'm there must be something about it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I feel very I can't tell you how lucky. I
feel like. It's some of the adventures too, some of
them aren't even in the book because they're too ridiculous,
and it's I don't know. So I have this very
strange coincidences and things happen like you know, Heath and
(31:50):
different things.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And so when you say Heath, that's Heath Ledger. What
was the sequence of events? You meet in from a
band or twelve hundred techniques? Who was a guy around town?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's funny, I'm calling that even meeting in for you know,
I just said he was at the time just becoming
a famous Australian musician, first to win Arias for hip
Hop and Big Day Out and all these things. And
there's a whole bunch of creative guys from Perth that
moved to Melbourne and he was one of them, and
(32:24):
there was a bunch of others and they were all
mates with Heath, and they'd known each other for a
long time. Heath would come down and hang out in
this posse that I was now a part of. But
you know, we'd hang out in groups and we would
you know, we always got along very well. Remember Heath
directing in for film Clips and Gee would have been
the best director. You can know someone for a long time,
(32:46):
but then you can spend one weekend or one day
or one night and something else goes to another level.
And it was this weekend in Perth that all of
a sudden, it's just Heath and I and we just
opened up, like to everything. Very strangely. It was like
a confession thing, and he told me about everything. He
(33:11):
was feeling really vulnerable time. He's really a very complex
person and he had a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Was he filming the Joker at this time?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
He had finished a Joker, right and he was right
into that, and then he was filming the blah blah
blah blah blah blah Imaginarium. Yeah, something, So I think
he kind of says, I don't think his heart was
in that, and he was struggling pushing through. He also
had broken up with his ex, he was missing his child,
he wasn't drinking, he was trying, He was ambitious about
(33:42):
the future. I mean, this is what I can say
without saying everything, because doing a portrait, a lot of
it's got to do with trust. That stuff people knew.
But there was a whole lot of stuff that I
shared and he shared that we hadn't shared before, and
I feel like he wanted to He avoided having his
portrait painted his whole life. He felt like it was
(34:04):
kind of like a spiritual thing to him. He wanted
me to have everything, every bit of me information. But
also we just got along really really well.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So that if anyone was going to paint a portrait
of him, it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah. He waited. He got asked for years and years,
and we waited, and we were waiting and waiting, and
it just timing matched. But there was you know, we
had a very special chemistry that you know, he just
feel like, oh fuck, someone understands me, and we both did.
And when I went to his house that following morning,
(34:37):
I walked in, it was really weird because it was
like we didn't even talk, and he grabbed in his
pajamas with his t shirt off, and he grabbed a
chair and he walked outside and he put the chair
out on the back of Miranda and he sat in
the chair and he just meditated. And I was like,
I was thinking, I start taking photos. It's just like,
(34:57):
you know, do I meditate? Anyway? I started taking photos
and he's there for it uncomfortably long time. Then he
kind of walked around himself like he was still in
a chair, and yelling and screaming and laughing, and I
just snapped away and then it ended and we didn't
you know, it was like truly a collaboration. I've had
(35:19):
some experiences similar, but nothing like that. He's just without words.
It was the most powerful performance. He was showing you
his complexities and all those things we talked about. He
just turned into a one man show. It was.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
But you also picked out and that's that's As a
portrait artist, I imagine your the muse for you is
to find those notes and go it's this.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
It's that because there are a lot of options, and
I always think to do a good portrait, you can't
overthink it and it can become a bit contrived or
literal or something. And there were certain aspects of what
he was doing that just stood out.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
There is more to my conversation with Vincent Vanchuzzo after
the break. We talk about how, literally hours upon finishing
the portraits, Vincent received the news of Heath Ledger's death.
So there's something magical happened with this portrait. So you
come back to Melbourne, you're working on it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, last thing he said, and I think I've spoke
about this before was this portrait's going to change our life,
And I thought that was a really weird comment.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
He was going back to the States.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yep, he was going back. I was going back to Melbourne,
and like never before, I worked obsessively, like day and night.
I was just and thinking about him. You meditate about
the person and the conversations. I also think that is
what makes a good portrait apport. It have a life
and charisma, like you have to believe in it while
(37:00):
you're painting it. And three weeks, you know, we might
have had a couple of short texts exchange, but he
worked flat out and I worked flat out.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And also as a back note to these, because he'd
broken up with his partner, he had his daughter who
he had left. You had a child at that point,
and you were then married, and that was also complicated.
So those we.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Were sharing all this stuff we spoke about. It's like
he told the future. I know Heith was very ambitious
about his future, and I know he didn't take his life,
but he did. And his dad said this, he didn't.
He thought he wasn't going to grow old. And I
finally just you know, I don't know why I have
(37:45):
those thoughts is that's something everyone did. But it was
like it was something like he knew and he didn't
say it like he was just throwing the comment out.
He grabbed my hand and looked in my eyes and
said it and that's pretty You know, it's just a portrait.
You think like it changed my life for every day
(38:05):
of my life.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, of course, because your arrangement with him was that
he was going to see it when it was finished
in the flesh, so I sent it to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Him that that night that I finished. It was the
same size as my television TV. Yeah, there's a big TV.
At the time, I don't know, I spend money on
stupid shit. I had it next to my TV, and
I went to bed and I turned the TV on
and there it is. He's passed away. And it was
(38:35):
just all of a sudden, I'm thrown into this, like well,
wind of people knew I was doing the portrait and
it got to depress and they're calling me within hours
and you know, news like they're outside my door because
I don't know why, because there was other stuff to
do with him to talk about. But somehow this painting
(38:57):
jumped in the forefront.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Was on the cover of that it was going to
be the Archibald, and the Archibald has such a people
in the country who know nothing about art.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
It's not that important now anymore because I don't know.
It's just going to have.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Many of the people's choice, including with Heath. So Heath's
dad and family decided that you should.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Stick to the stick to the plan. And I heard
Heath's voice in my head like, fuck, you're entering it.
I didn't do that for nothing, neither did you. But
to have, you know, one of the highest points of
my career at that time, and having an attached to
the loss of someone that meant so much to me
(39:47):
and to everyone else was there. Really it's still very bittersweet.
Everything about it is like now, I also, have you
know Kim Ledger such a big part of my life.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yes, you hadn't met prior to that, but Heath had
told him about you and his friendship with you. And
how long after Heath past did that Archibald happen?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh like a week? Oh, because I was finishing it
in time for that as well, so raw completely raw,
like at least maybe even within days. And I was
in the airport carrying this picture and people are like, oh,
that's the picture from TV. And I was like, oh yeah,
it's kind of half smiling and half crying. And I
(40:35):
spent a lot of time half smiling, half crying since
because it's like, you know, even recently, I've got you know,
all his family and his friends and everyone. They're they're
like my family now, Like it's pretty crazy. And Kim
recently said to me, Kim Heat's dad said, I wish
(40:57):
I had understood Heath. I wish Heath I haud have
known that I now understand him much better than I
did at the time, because Heath was very spiritual, right.
They didn't agree on it, you know, they had a rub,
their career rub because Heath made his decisions instinctively and spiritually,
(41:17):
and his dad didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
He was not common between fathers and sons.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You managed him for a long time, and I think
one of the things that really hits him is that
he now completely gets it. And he wishes that Heath
had known that he now knows his son better than
he did before.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And that's that's partly because he knows you.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, I think, and that makes me happy that you know,
I did that for the two of them. Because they've
done so much for me. It also makes me think
about doing the book. You know, maybe you just got
to do things tell people you love them.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I remember saying that portrait at the time, and it
was just so him. You really cut through in a
way that I think a lot of artists don't. You
went on to gain more momentum as this little snowball,
this Vinnie Snowball, and gathering other people in your wake.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I always met interesting people my whole life, you know,
like Aliyah and you know, and I got to experience
some pretty amazing stuff people don't. But then to feel
you're this kid that always felt inferior, and then you
have people like well, when I met Baz, I didn't
even know who he was. But then you realize and
(42:42):
you like.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Nearly had a fight.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It would have been like a bitch fight. You know,
obviously I would have taken him down. He didn't know.
It's pretty funny because we're at Bazi is so flam.
I love bas It makes me smile to think about him. Funnily.
One of our amazing directors, Michael Gracie. You know, Michael
Gracie did Greatest Showman and he just did the Monkey movie,
(43:08):
you know, very tough. He was a friend. I remember
him young, running around Sydney trying to make films and
then he bumps into his mates Joel and Nash Edguton
with the handicams and they're trying to make films and
now they're all big stars. So I went to a
club with Michael Gracie. He says, meet my friend. It
(43:29):
was his ex boss. He worked for Bads at some point.
And anyway, this fancy guy, mister fancy talking about telling
started referencing art history and my painting and yeah, and
I'm just talking about art and I'm like, you would
you know, white haired guy. And then so I start,
you know, telling this guy what I think and then
(43:52):
starts to get quite intense, and people are just like
watching them. He kind of stood up and pointed his
finger or something, and I'm like, man, wrong person. So
I stood up and I'm like a back to broad
Meadows mate. You know. We just looked and we kind
of looked around at people, and then we just started laughing.
And I think that was, you know, when we became
(44:13):
good friends, and we just kind of we thought it
was funny that people thought that we were more serious
than we were, like nothing was going to happen and yeah,
and then back to her. So I'm this kid. I'm
still this kid, and I still am now and I'm thinking, oh,
you know, this is someone special that actually puts me
(44:34):
on their level, and it's just, you know, I still
have the impostor situation going on. Even now. I get
a text from the Prime Minister. You know, not which
Julia good one, the one people the.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
One I wrote down? How many times you won the
People's Choice Award.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I can't remember now, so I'll I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
So you won it with Heath in twenty two thousand
and eight, you won in two thousand and nine, you
won in twenty thirteen, you won in twenty fourteen. One
of those was bas painting of bads Lot.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Finally, the one of Baz didn't get in. He thinks
it's because someone doesn't like him. But won a Doug
Moran prize.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
That's right, Okay, you did your your eldest.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Son, Yeah so Luca, yeah as one, Yeah, yes, matte one. Matt,
my brother Matt, Now he won the the Packing Room Prize.
And then he calls me up and you go, there's
this thing they say, he's a cursor when the Packing
Room Prize you can't win, He's like fucking won the
Packing Room Prize. Yeah, because he's he's better than that.
(45:46):
That was the band that was meant to win.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
You mentioned Matt Moran, the Chief, a dear friend of yours,
and it was through him that, Yes, another incredible thing
happened to you.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah. See, this is what I'm talking about, this coincidences
and the way things happen. And I was I did
thirty so project on that special night with we came
up with this project We're going to do in New York,
thirty portraits thirty days. And he was going to show
me around New York and we thought, what better way
(46:19):
to get to know people than to do a portrait
a day. So I paint your portrait and you suggest
the next.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
One someone else, and then you go do it.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And so I did it. It was intense. I needed
some help after that. I did it in Hong Kong.
Then I did it in New York. It was awesome,
and now I said I'd do it in Melbourne, but
because I already know the city. It was about inspirational
Australians and you know Matt said, well, you better do
my portrait, so I did, and then I said, you
(46:47):
better do my portraits so inspirational important, and Matt suggested Asher,
and Baz suggested Elizabeth to Becky. So then I got
two actresses a good look in that campaignt now. But
I didn't. I had no idea who Asha was, because
I don't have an idea who anyone is.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
She didn't know who I was, and you weren't an offspring,
never even heard the word before, and yeah, bigger show
at the time.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
So Matt insisted that I do the portrait, and I
wanted to anyway when I saw RuSHA, and Asha's agent
kind of encouraged her as well. On the day of meeting,
I was trying to find babysitter for Luca. I was single, dadding,
and I was running late. I couldn't explain that to her, couldn't.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Explain uncommon for you, I imagine, and I imagine she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Really run late, Yes, exactly, she doesn't run late, and
she had she doesn't have a lot of patience for
those people that run late and anywhere else. Then I
was trying to clean the studio. I was rolling out
the wheelie bins looking like a mess, and then I
see ashually, I think I dropped the bins and that
was kind of it. We like something. I do have
(48:08):
magical moments. I'm dreaming them. But it was and she
ended up in my bed that night. No, she didn't
for that. She said, if you joke about those things,
people think that it's serious. It's not true.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
That just happened in life. And we do know that
you have a son together, so.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
At some point, you do you do you calculate the age. No,
she wasn't like that at all, but we just I
worked so hard to do that painting in record time.
It was like I was a robot because I wanted
to impress her.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
And you said you'd seen her a photo of it
when it was finished, So.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Like you know, three hours later.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Sending your photos, both of you have seen independently of
each other that you knew as soon as you saw
each other.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, I knew as soon as she was like touching
my leg on the table that she liked me.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Because you can't talk seriously about this because you're all boys.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But there is a photo of us on that day
and you can see we look like we've been together
for a long time, but.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Your younger brother took who was there, which is amazing.
You took that photo together.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I know, like our whole there's even a there's a
great film because I filmed her as well, and you
can see it's kind of looking at each other and
it's really funny to like to pretty amazing. I got
film over our first meeting and it's she's so cute
in it as well, Like I can see just you know,
because I know obviously now what was happening. It's just yeah,
(49:44):
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
But you came to her with still your secrets.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, you know, it's funny just looking at your face.
I just hear ashes ashes words like no, it's like
they're protecting her.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
It's pretty funny.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Well, you both have an ability to say a lot
just with a look.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Well, you know, I think listeners.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I can't see that look.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Well, you fell in love with someone who Australia was
already in love with. So I think a lot of
us feel very protective of Asher because she's always been
such an extraordinary artist, but also with such dignity and
beauty and grace, and yet she fell in love with
(50:32):
someone who had a certain amount of chaos.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, and again I can't now I'm thinking at that
time I already love her too much. I can't let
her find out because then she's not going to so
that you couldn't read, Yeah, of the list, you know,
I can't read. I'm going through my own kind of
divorce thing that's over, but you know, still lingering. I
(50:59):
have a child. I don't really know, you know, I
struggle to organize my own lunch, and I'm looking after
a kid and trying to have a career and can't
read right. But I can cook. So I imparted her over
for food.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
What did you cook it?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Well? I had chicken and capscum and onion and some
olives and I remember them anyway. I wander over with yeah,
pasta and but eventually I do know she took things
pretty well considering, and she went from being you know,
quite happy by herself in the country with her horses,
(51:37):
She's thrown into my chaotic mess, which is stuck.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
With which seems to be sort of strangely complimentary. Your
love and your devotion to each other is and your
connection is so.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, we don't really have another choice. Like we're like everyone,
we're you know, passionate people, and yeah, she makes mistakes
and I accept her mistakes all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
You look again that.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
You know we you know, like everyone else, we have
different opinions, but you know we respect the opinions, and
you know we can we both were passionate people, but
there's no choice. We're not going anywhere. We love the
love each other, and I think, you know, challenging each
other is part of our relationship, but in a good way,
(52:32):
and we've done it so often that it's never a
big deal, Like we kind of smart, have a smile
on our face while we do it.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
And creatively, both of you seem to ignorege each other.
So you just really went from strength to strengths, as
has she.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Sometimes I've pracass lines with her and I'm, yeah, why
you're laughing so much? Because I can't read them. But
you know, she tells mem and I somehow dialogue in conversation.
I can remember improvising, but I can remember the story.
The story I can remember, so then we can do lines.
(53:08):
But you know, we do some fun stuff like that.
If I'm doing a portrait, I always ask her opinion.
I don't necessarily agree, but she's she'll give me the
true love opinion of what she thinks. Like most people say,
well what do you think? I think the same thing,
and she's gives me the opinion that I need to hear.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
All right. So though you were so as one with Asher,
your wife, the mother of your sons, or a mother
of your sons, you still had inside you the great
unspoken secret and the shame of the abuse that you
had endured as a child. At what point did it
(54:00):
become too much to contain?
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Oh, mister emotional. Uh, it was something. I was talking
to a friend yesterday and who had just read the book,
and he said, you know, you could have talked to me,
like we talk about everything. It was almost like he
(54:35):
was offended, but he wasn't. He's very nice, Like he
just thought, oh, why you know you could have spoken
to me about this. I don't speak to anyone at
all at all.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Ever, No, And but Asha must have known. There was
always something.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Pretty fucking good out lying when it comes to shame,
not generally, you know, she can pick pick that stuff
a mile away. It's you know, finally I write it
down for everyone to read, and I couldn't tell anyone
at all. And you know, it's the only thing about
(55:15):
abuse that and I can't even you know, I can't
even talk about it like in detail. But it can
be you know, it wasn't just one moment, but it
can be one moment in someone's life for thirty seconds,
(55:35):
and it could go on for years. It could just
be thirty seconds, though, and for the rest of their life.
They are stuck with a reaction to everything that you know,
happens in their daily life in every way. And you know,
maybe not thirty seconds, but you know what I'm saying,
it's one moment in someone's life.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
The impacts is so significant. Yeah, they just got robbed
that there's before and then this after.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Exactly, they just got robbed of everything and you can't
make it go away, and you don't tell anyone, and
it just gets worse. So then every you know, I'm
thinking that I deserve you know, I deserve this, or
(56:23):
you know, churches and religion don't have people either, you know.
I mean, I don't know, but you just feel like
you feel disgusting, and you feel disgusted in yourself, You
feel ashamed, you feel like you can't tell anyone. Why
can't I tell anyone? Because maybe I deserved it, or
maybe this is I asked for something.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Or maybe this person won't love me if they know
this but not just.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yes, absolutely so, then they're going to think no one
wants damaged goods and my damage goods. So I'll keep
it to myself, just like the reading and writing, Like
if I don't tell people that don't know, and they're
just going to not judge me, you know, if I
start saying, oh, and it's like the book, you know,
like I don't want to feel like some sorry case,
(57:11):
you know, like im or I don't feel like I
don't know people went through a lot more shit than
I did. You know, it doesn't matter if you what
background you're from. You can be from a privileged background.
You can be in a slum in India, you can
be whatever it is. And stuff like this you know
happens to Mark, could happen to anyone and marks you
(57:34):
and such a you know, why am I Do I
have to think about that on the birth of my child? Yes?
Buck that up?
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, because your boys must when they
were at the age that you were.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Or my kid goes through a sleepover m hm and
I can't sleep, or you know, it's you're getting married
and you think about you lose your virginity you kiss
someone from the first time. You know, it's not just
that stuffid it can be anything. You meet someone and
(58:11):
you see something and you're suspicious and you might they
might not deserve your suspicion and you have to think.
You have to think like that.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
That's changed how you move through the world.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
I had a lot, Oh had a lot of anger.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
M h Asha said she did too when she found out.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
She still does.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
How was the moment when you or was it a
moment or was it a gradual when you shed that
most private part of.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
You with her? I think it just gave us, you know,
and it allowed usher also to you know, it's like
i'll share something, you share something she shared. You know,
she's quite good at that, and she'll I don't know
if she's quite good at that actually, but she said
(59:16):
shared vulnerabilities with me too. Actually, she's probably not good
at that. That's why when she does it means something.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
But maybe that's what you two are good at together.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
And it also it just gave her maybe a bit
more perspective on my reactions generally to things. And it's
also again, there's a lot in the book that I
hope people can connect with. It makes me feel more comfortable,
but it's one of the things that you know, I
know someone else is going to feel and you know
(59:50):
they might. Actually someone did read the book and they
said that there was some stuff that they never looked
at in themselves and helped them in a big, big way.
And I'm like, then that makes the book worthwhile, just
that alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Would you like a portrait of you from your wife,
Asha Keady? Would you like that? Vin Do you like that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Cheeky little on the table? You know? Asha, I've had
radio stations call me and ask me if I can
do stuff to you, and I.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Said no, So Vincent. Despite the significant challenges Vinnie has
experienced and strives to make peace with, I think all
the time about the capacity he has to love, to inspire,
to engage, to ignite positivity in anyone who crosses his path.
(01:00:52):
What matters most to him is connection, deep connection with me,
with his sons, but also with anyone that he invests in.
In our early years together, this need for authentic connection
proves to be a conundrum of sorts, because there was
this fierce self protection in place too, that I wasn't
(01:01:14):
entirely able to understand. Life together is exhilarating, though there
have been times I have felt like I'm balancing on
the edge of a cliff with him, desperate to earn
his trust. I think several years into our relationship, when
he was able to share his true state with me,
(01:01:34):
I was really able to appreciate the strength and resilience
he has. It's still complex, and we both need that.
Though an extraordinary honesty has developed between us. We've spent
our entire relationship peeling back the layers, exposing our vulnerabilities,
(01:01:55):
both of us with the shared purpose of creating a healthy, fulfilling,
emotional life for ourselves and especially our children. Of the
many things I love about this man, and I knew
he was my person the day we meet. I respect
him so much for this courage.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Told me I didn't want to be emotional, and she's like, like,
you see what I write to her.
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I think she loves you, And really, so many people
in the world love you, and you've shared your You've
shared your gift with the world. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
There was an article in the Daily Mail two days
ago telling Asha how lucky she is to have me
because of my abs, you know what, I'm very I'm
just so humbled by it. Like you know, I feel
there's a lot of people that struggle when they have
(01:03:02):
ship and they don't get to be where I am,
and I have someone like you know, having you know,
like one of the most special people in every way,
and my kids.
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
And you know, I think it was I think it
was kim a dad who said, when talent and passion
come together, then kind of everything happens. And you've allowed
(01:03:36):
that to happen. And the truths that you've shared are
kind of universal truths, deeply personal to you, of course
in private, but there's something universal about them. And I
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
On no filter. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
When I was talking to Vincent, it was impossible for
me not to see him through the prism of his
marriage to Asher and the power of the extraordinary differences
that their relationship encompasses, and how they both make it work,
and how they both refer to each other as their
person both being artists, formidable artists within their own right,
(01:04:24):
but Vincent having battled like proper demons and continuing to
do so. And God, I love people who share their vulnerabilities.
It's amazing how often we're introduced to someone at the
height of their success, but we don't have any idea
what the road looked like that led them to where
(01:04:44):
they are now. This conversation, of course, only scratched the
surface of Vincent's tumultuous and fascinating life, and that's why
he has written a book. It's called Unveiled, and we've
put all the details in the show notes. We've also
shared some links for mental health support if the conversation
has stood up any hard emotions for you. The executive
(01:05:08):
producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, the senior producer
is Bree Player. Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown,
and I'm your host, Kate lane Brook. Thanks for listening,
and we'll keep them coming.
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
On My kid goes for a sleepover and I can't sleep.
Or you know, you're getting married and you think about
you lose your virginity, you kiss someone for the first
time anything, You meet someone and you see something and
you're suspicious and they might not deserve your suspicion and
(00:38):
you have to think like that.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hi, I'm Kate lane Brook. Welcome to No Filter on
Paper or on Canvas. A renowned and commercially successful portrait
artist who shot to art world fame with his two
thousand and eight portrait of friend and actor Heath Ledger,
with which he won the People's Choice Award at the
(01:10):
fabled Archibald Prize. He hasn't stopped winning prizes since. His
subjects have included notable figures such as Brandon Walters, Matt
Moran and Baz Lureman, and perhaps his greatest prize, his
better half, National Treasure and beloved actress Asha Kedy. Together,
(01:33):
the couple raised Luca Vincent's first child along with their
son Valentino, but behind Vincent's seemingly charmed life was a
childhood of neglect, abuse, crime and poverty. And friends, we
do talk about these things in detail, so listen mindfully.
(01:55):
After a lifetime of bearying the traumatic realities of his past,
Vincent wrote his memoir Unveiled. In this emotionally raw conversation,
I had the privilege of speaking with Vincent about the
shame and trauma he's lived with since boyhood. He shares
what it was like to endure an abusive upbringing, what
(02:17):
it was like to go through school completely illiterate, and
his teenage encounters with violence and crime. He also tells
of how boxing became the unexpected pathway to art, which
ultimately saved him. We talk about his marriage to Asher,
his role as a father, and how the ghosts of
(02:38):
his past have maintained a choke hold on him despite
the fact that he managed to draw his way out
of that life. I also got to surprise Vincent with
a truly beautiful message from his wife Asher that has
us both reaching for the tissues. Vincent is living proof
that you can never truly know someone's journey from how
(03:01):
it may look from the outside. Here is Vincent Vantuzzo.
Vincent Vantuzzo, Fantatzo and Tusa. Welcome to No Filter. So
you have written this book called Unveiled, and it's about
(03:22):
your life as a little boy in pain, as a
big boy in pain, and your life as a boy
who grew up in Australia and yet couldn't read It's
it's such an extraordinary story. And I have never seen
(03:43):
a book that at the back has got so many
social support.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Something about myself. I need a lot of support, you know,
I just I wouldn't know where to start. But part
of doing a book was I felt very I guess
lonely as a kid because I didn't know where to
go or who to explain things to. And I thought,
if someone does read it and they feel a certain way,
(04:13):
then maybe call one eight hundred to get some help.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Tell me about your when you were growing up. So
your family came out from England where you were born,
your Irish mum, you're an Italian dad, and you ended
up in a very very working class suburb in Melbourne
and it was a tough life.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's a bit the wild West where you know, I
know there's a tougher places, but in my little mind,
you know, I was afraid people are going to break
into our house. Every day. There was violence in the street.
I mean you could walk down the street and you
can hear the domestic violence, like it's you're walking past
(05:00):
different domestic violence display homes was like all over the place.
People would fight their people in the middle of the
commission housing kind of grass area. The phone box got
broken every day. If you went to the milk burrow
of the fish and chip shop, someone had stand guard.
(05:21):
You went to the swimming pool, you do a lap,
have a fight, do a lap, have a fight. It
was really like you couldn't escape it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You become a boxer during that time.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes, during it a little bit later, but because of
that time, I think.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
That you learned to that physical strength would be a
way to protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah. So even more so than physical strength. The psychology
of making people think, you know, fucking crazy was the
was the strategy, because the bullies pick on people that
are vulnerable, and I had some pretty vulnerable situations. There's
(06:03):
a couple of reasons, but one was I knew that
if I appeared that way, then the fight's half. One.
I would whack myself in the face and pull my
own hair and kind of you know, it's like really,
but the whole thing was an act all the time.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And what was going on inside obviously this fear, but
also an urge to protect your mom from your dad,
who was a dark person.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And emotionally, yeah, you know what was really hard was
physical abuse. You know what's happening, but they can hide
it from you. The controlling side of thing, which really
gets to me, the emotional abuse, verbal and controlling abuse
where you know, you see your mum is a prisoner
(06:56):
and scared, and you know, when you watch a movie,
if you see every part of a scene, it can
have less impact than what you don't see. It's what
you know is happening behind the doors or at night
when you're sleep and you know you can't see it,
but you don't. You know it's that and also no
one explaining it to you.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
So the imaginings, yeah, but based on what you know
is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, but then you think about you know, things happened
to me and no one knew, but how could they not?
If I get emotional, it's because it's I never really
talked out loud about a lot of things that are
in a book until recently. And it's still kind of
hard to talk about. What I'm talking about is the
(07:45):
abuse that happened to me that no one knew about.
He's the same thing like that happens to a lot
of women, kids, and shit happens, and you know, people
either don't notice or they pretend not to. And throughout
my life a lot of stuff was swept under the rug.
(08:06):
I just got fucking sick of it, and I thought,
you know, I got to I write it down and
then I have to talk about it, and you know
I'm talking about but yeah, well.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of
people would know you through your work, particularly you know
that it's a famous portrait of Heath Ledger, the beautiful
Three Shades of Heat. And I think there's a tendency
for people to think when people are successful, that everything's
(08:39):
been perfect for them, or everything's been laid out for them.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, look how good looking is And I will say,
look at beautiful wife, look at his beautiful Childrendren.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But your tale is so far removed from that. But
not only that, there was always, even as you were
this young boy in these really terrible and terrifying circumstances,
there was something in you that wanted more, Yeah, and
(09:18):
still want more, and it's not you know, I know
there's different ways of describing success, And to me, the
ultimate is that one day my kids look at me
and they they're proud of me, and they say they
love me. That's my ultimate success.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But growing up when you don't have a lot, you know,
I wanted a way to get out and to be successful.
Turns out that painting was my way.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So there were five of you kids, There was your
father who.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Was He kind of disappeared halfway through.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, and left you really to slip into another level
of poverty.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
What he did was my You know, when you control someone,
it only lasts for so long, you know, and my
was brave enough at some point to leave, and he
wanted us to blame my mom, so he made it
extra extra hard. He didn't pay one cent to child support.
You know, he quit his company so he didn't have to.
(10:26):
You know. He preferred to be earning nothing and give
nothing and to make us for resent her. And for
a little while it worked, and you know he kind of.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Wise up to that as well, and you ended up
the five of you living in a housing commission flat
that your house that your mom had.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
She hustled her way in. You know, I kind of
get sick of having to hustle and the thought of
her having to do her whole life. But I think
there were four of us kids at that point, and
my mom my mom slept on the couch, you know,
and I just look at what it takes to survive is,
you know, for a single mom na's situation, And it's
(11:11):
kind of why when she's missed a few things, you know,
I don't know if she missed them or if Yeah, right,
so you know what it's like you're a mum for
But if someone was making it very hard for you
and you're living in a shit hole and you can't
I don't have time to work, and or you're working
as much as you can, it's not much. So you know,
(11:33):
some things can you can miss or you just can't
deal with.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I guess have you ever asked your mum? I'm kind
of afraid to upset her. That's that's a really common thing.
I think. Also when you know that thing, the point
that you get to as an adult where you realize
the shortcomings of your own parents because of your own
shortcomings as a parent often I still don't understand.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
There's a couple of things that bother me. But yeah,
I also you know I can, I can leave them.
I don't need an explanation. I kind of know.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Has your mom read the book?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
No, she wouldn't have read the book. There's some shit
in there that I think should have been talked about.
But as you know, same things never happened. Nothing ever happened.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Well, because you know, the story of you is like
parallel Vincent's on different tracks and kind of all moving
in the same direction. But one track is pain, and
one track is dyslexia, and one track is this boy
(12:43):
who wants out and is a brilliant artist, even from
a really young age. But if you want to talk
about people slipping through the cracks, this is like a
couple of passages in this book really struck me. One
is about your father, but this one. From the primary
(13:05):
grades right through until I left high school, I never
passed a class. I didn't even get an E. I
simply received no grades at all. I never read a book,
not that I didn't want to, and I couldn't copy
work from the blackboard into my exercise books. I never
once did homework. I didn't even know the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I was never sure whether it was blackboard or
backboard because I couldn't spell it. But I think about
my own kids, and you know, it's funny I read
to them, they read to me. Really. Yeah, we did
miss the men books in different accents each page. It's fun.
I make up stories. But I know if my yeah,
(13:53):
I know what's going on with my kids, and I
just think, I mean, you can miss a few things.
But I couldn't even spell my own address. I don't know.
I can't remember if I could even spell my own name.
I didn't know what day it was. I couldn't even
spell the days of the week, you know how like
it's it's one of the questions. It's like did you know?
(14:17):
Or you know? Did you I thought I was. I
really thought I was stupid, you know. And for a
kid to for no one to say, oh, you know,
we'll work on it. No one read a book to me,
So you think, am I case that people have given
(14:37):
up on? And you know, I was in a special
class and all those things. But at the same time
I was popular, maybe for the wrong things, and I
could have a conversation and I just thought, you know,
what the fuck's going on, Like, why why isn't anyone
Why isn't anyone saying anything? And even the teachers, you know,
(14:59):
they put you in a different class. I'd recess at
a different time. I don't know how it got through it.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Tell me how you found your way to the boxing,
or how the boxing found you.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I may have been at a friend's place after school
and we walk past this suburban boxing gym is like
a backyard gym, Jack Ronnie gym, backyard gym that trained
world champions, pretty amazing, and we walked past and I
just looked in there and it's just like it called
out to me. Yeah, even you know, it's funny. Maybe
(15:37):
I am very emotional, but it's funny the things that
bring out the emotion. Yeah, just the thought that you
spend your whole life like sucking it stuff and then
you know you, Yeah, it's like a you don't realize
that you can find something special in the most simple places.
(15:58):
When you're a kid and your self confidence is low,
you're looking desperately for a place. And if you're good
at being bad and you get encouraged by your mates,
then you become more bad. If you're the class clown,
you become a little bit funnier. And I was happy
to get kicked out of class as often as possible
because it meant I didn't have to face doing the schoolwork.
(16:19):
So that's what I did. And I became you know,
get into a fight and I'd win, and that meant okay,
Now I know my currency.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And you had a certain like cuteos, a certain prestige.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I built it very high throughout my teens. I was.
It kind of makes me laugh because you know, I
was trained very hard, and I was strong and wiry.
I was so sadly so violent that you know not
I was never a bully, but I would do whatever
(16:55):
it takes not to lose my position. So if that
meant knives, bats, picket fences, bowles, bottles like, I would
do whatever it takes because I'm not losing. And I
think it made me, i mean, have a very competitive spirit.
And I chose the wrong place to kind of use it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Well, you didn't have anyone to show you another place
at that point to channel yourself. Didn't have your dad.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Well, he was part of teaching me that as well,
so he taught me in every way to take shortcuts,
like there was you never do the right thing. You know,
he was just a cheat all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Because it says you talk about one of the things
that observations you make about him in your book, and
it's interesting because you're a dad now, was that he
never read a book to you. He never kicked a ball,
he never shared and watched a movie with you. He
never took you fishing. He never did anything. The only
thing he taught you to.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Do was he took me fishing once and it was
a fishing competition with other dads and families, and he
took me to a trout farm, bought the fish, rubbed
it in some dirt, said, and we won a competition.
So he just taught me again to cheat. Missed out
in the fishing part and one, yeah, that's right. So
(18:21):
it didn't really win anything.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And because of that, So because of this absence and
a boy craves his father.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I still do. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, But when you found yourself in the boxing gym
with Jack older man, so.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Jack said, if he saw that I was good at boxing,
and for the first time I got to use the
stuff that I could do well in a positive way.
I was winning fights right away. I felt like I'd
finally found something that comes completely natural that I can
be proud of. And he said, if you get in,
(19:06):
if you get into fights outside of this gym, I
understand if you back in against you all, you're defending yourself.
If you be you know that guy, you're not training here.
And it was the first time anyone really set boundaries
for me. And it was a very special feeling.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And you understood that straight away.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I was desperate for it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
How much of you did he see at that point?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Interestingly, just after Australian story, I had a really amazing
email from his son who said his Jack's passion and
what he was very good at is helping youse that
we're in trouble and a lot of the kids at
the gym where I don't know any of this. He
also was secretly a very passionate artist, which I find
that he didn't share with people. And I think we
(19:52):
had a lot of stuff in common, as you know
people growing up, so he I think he identified me
and he it's very clever that he without throwing too
much attention on you, so you feel, you know, like
a performance anxiety he was able to encourage me and
(20:13):
set some boundaries without too many that you would rebel.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Coming up after this break, Vincent tells us about getting
kicked out of school and what he refers to as
his apprenticeship in the world of crime. What was going
on at school at that time or you were still
trying to make a qud to help out your mom
(20:46):
and to help out yourself.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
By thirteen, I was kicked out of school. And again,
you kick a kid out of school and they got
nowhere to go, and no one says you have to
go to school anymore. And you're thirteen, Like my kid's
fifteen now, I can't imagine what he would do. And
so thirteen about turn fourteen, no school, a lot of
(21:08):
you know, because just stupid. Maybe you're doing an apprenticeship.
That's what people used to say. Become a hairdresser, a
beautician or doing it, you know, become a mechanic or
some kind of apprentice, and then you get you know,
you just get paid ship money as child labor, which
is what happened for years in restaurants. My dad said, well,
(21:28):
the first time I'll step in and I'll get you
a job. Got me a job with the Dodgy Brothers
pizza business.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Because the one thing your dad had done or you
had learnt from him, was to cook.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, so I still love cooking a cook almost every day,
and I do it with the kids and Asher cooks.
And you know this, When I walk into a restaurant,
I smell the food. It's the one positive memory that
I've created. I think about my dad, He's an incredible cook,
and all my family for generations and cooks and chefs,
(22:02):
I think it's you know.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
The site.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
They make incredible mashed potato again, Generations pie for their quisine.
My mom can cook. So you didn't really teach me.
I obsessively watched and asked a lot of questions like hey,
did how about this? I generally I must have been
an annoying kid because I couldn't read and write. I
(22:29):
asked fuck, I asked a lot of questions like I
do I remember now people saying you ask a lot
of questions.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So that didn't work out. Dodgy Brother's restaurant didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So again I learned. It was like going You know
when someone goes to jail and they learned dodgy shit,
That's what I learned from them like they were proper.
It got worse. I got another job in a peacher shop.
There were drug dealers. They were actually so the first ones.
They were not nice people. They treated me badly. They
(22:59):
worked me seven year, eighty hours a week. I was
fourteen year fourteen. I used to deliver pizzas in the
waitresses cars and they would let me. That was kind
of a good part, but sometimes I did all nighters. Anyway,
these guys were so dodgy they burnt down their pizza
shop and one of them cooked themselves in the process.
Insurance job.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Wow, not over cooking pizzas. I also end up being
a life insurance job.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yes, so I knew how to cook. I couldn't read
the menu. I don't know what people were getting in
their meals if it matched the menu. But they were
good pastors. That was popular. Yeah. Later I got a
job in another pizza shop. They would deal drugs and
I would help them and i'd sell. And you know,
I think I was getting to sixteen or something now,
(23:46):
and I remember I was moving a chair and it
rattled and I suck my hand in there. Oh, then
there's a gun. I'm like, oh cool now, I'm going
next level. So I kept it. Yes, I put in
a pizza box and took it home. And now I'm
you know, you know, already in trouble and I got
a gun. Yeah, and I didn't hurt anyone with the
(24:09):
but I could have. And I look at back to
where we were somewhere before that.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
That's different taking you.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, So I did my apprenticeship in crime, and I
was good at it. And you know the forks in
the road that kids can take, and I was at
that point where, you know, I would have been very
good down that dark road.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
But you didn't want it. And this is I find
so interesting. So even though everything could have pointed you
that way, there was nobody really aside from your boxing coach,
who believed in you or expected anything from you at
(24:53):
that point.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
The criminals believed in me too, Ye, that was the problem.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
But yeah, you didn't want their belief in you. And
there was a time when you you completely turned your
back on that. And it was a real like you said,
a fork in the road. But all this time you're
drawing and you've got your cousin, You're at your nose
pastigiity where he's yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I had a great cousin, Enzo, who encouraged me and
taught me to draw, gave me confidence again, one of
the first people. Just a good person. And the problem
with drawing and art and still a problem, is that
it doesn't provide like it doesn't look like an opportunity
for a way out.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Tell me about the moment when you first made money
from your ash.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
There was a couple of moments. Well, firstly, I wanted
to thank Jack Renie for being my coach, so I
drew him a drawing he didn't know I could draw
drawing of Lona Rose and Johnny Vamajon And now I know.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Why who he'd coached.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yes, so he was the coach of world champions and
I see them in the gym. You know when I
was fighting, Lona Rose would sit in the corner sometimes
and it was really special. Wow. So I did this
drawing and I know now because he was a secret artist,
why it hit him And he said, oh, this is
(26:18):
like maybe it was kind of insulting, but not. He said,
maybe a better at drawing and boxing.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Thanks, but you're a good boxer, so if you're even
better at drawing, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Actually I hadn't lost a fight, so that's that's a
great call. Yeah, and we did it. So he took
that painting that was a sketch. He asked me to
do a painting, took it to the Boxing Hall of Fame.
We made Prince Elonroz and Johnny Famjoon signed them. Some
money went to a charity, and someone went to me
and I got paid. And then I started to say, oh,
(26:52):
sports to memorabilia, that's art, That's what I thought. And
I started to paint like Mornie, who later became a friend.
Finally I painted a few like Kyler Minoka friend as well.
I did a sketch of her. I lined up for
three hours to get her to sign. I haven't told
her this story because I didn't want it to know
how much younger I was. But I lined up and
got to sign it, and then I'd sell it. So
(27:13):
I was kind of trying to make money off well
however I could doing pictures, and then I started doing
portraits of people.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And then, incredibly, and I say incredibly, given that we
know where, we know where young Vincent is and where
he's come from, you wanted to study art.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know. I just wanted to say that I had
an education again, it just felt dumb. It's like, you know, people,
I just do you know HCBC whatever it was at
that time, And I was like, you know, I couldn't
tell people I never passed class, didn't even finish your nine.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Could you read at this point at all?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
No? So I still don't read well. But what I've
learned to do is so writing down things is a problem.
Reading Now, I can skim read very fast, and I
see words and sentences as pictures. I recognize all the pictures,
and somehow your brain very quickly put some into context
(28:20):
and you can read. So I can read my text messages.
And then I replied with voice to text, which can
come up with some funny stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And so you went to RT yes, and you got
into the after a few false starts. You applied a
few times.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yep, I lied again, So all my life feeling like
another liar to get success, I lied, made up a
fake report, talk my way in. After a few attempts,
when I saw what you actually have to do, So
then I'm in there.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Because interestingly, some people might think, oh, to go to
art school, you've just got to be good at art.
But they also expect this academic side of you.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, you know, and I respect the history of art
and people articulating art like I get it and it's important.
But I hadn't even been to an art gallery. You know,
I didn't know who Picasso was. I don't know anything.
I still don't know a lot about art history. But
you apparently meant it's a visual language. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So you're studying art. How are you received amongst I'm
going to say a very middle class, kind of privileged
clutch of people.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's very much that. Now I'm not here to judge
who goes there, but there was a lot of very
privileged kids with you know, an account at the art
store and some of them even a driver, and you know,
and there was older students who kind of had done
well in their financial life, and then they went back
(29:52):
to university. And then there was me. And here I
am again in school, having to lie and not be
able to pass anything. So I started history. I can't
do it at all, So I started to get paid
for doing portraits and pay people to do my essays.
(30:12):
Even resorted to, you know, selling drugs, which I don't
condone to pay my way through like.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Whatever it took, because you always had this quality even
when you're at your most lost. People I'm going to
say special people for shorthand special people saw the special
in you even when you didn't see it in yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's funny. I think good energy draws good energy and positivity,
adventurous energy. Also bad energy draws it brings in bad energy.
And I think I had the right energy to, you know,
give out to the right people. And I still do it,
like I have a lot of All this shit happened
(30:59):
and I've come out the other end with I have
the most amazing family people around me. It's kind of
like I created my own little thing.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And even when you were saying earlier that you know,
when you were at school and you were you'd learned
to be good at being bad because you couldn't be
good at being good Normally, those kids are not liked. Normally,
those kids are not popular, but you were popular and
people liked you. It's a very unusual, just a very
likable But I'm there must be something about it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I feel very I can't tell you how lucky. I
feel like. It's some of the adventures too, some of
them aren't even in the book because they're too ridiculous,
and it's I don't know. So I have this very
strange coincidences and things happen like you know, Heath and
(31:50):
different things.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And so when you say Heath, that's Heath Ledger. What
was the sequence of events? You meet in from a
band or twelve hundred techniques? Who was a guy around town?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's funny, I'm calling that even meeting in for you know,
I just said he was at the time just becoming
a famous Australian musician, first to win Arias for hip
Hop and Big Day Out and all these things. And
there's a whole bunch of creative guys from Perth that
moved to Melbourne and he was one of them, and
(32:24):
there was a bunch of others and they were all
mates with Heath, and they'd known each other for a
long time. Heath would come down and hang out in
this posse that I was now a part of. But
you know, we'd hang out in groups and we would
you know, we always got along very well. Remember Heath
directing in for film Clips and Gee would have been
the best director. You can know someone for a long time,
(32:46):
but then you can spend one weekend or one day
or one night and something else goes to another level.
And it was this weekend in Perth that all of
a sudden, it's just Heath and I and we just
opened up, like to everything. Very strangely. It was like
a confession thing, and he told me about everything. He
(33:11):
was feeling really vulnerable time. He's really a very complex
person and he had a lot going on.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Was he filming the Joker at this time?
Speaker 2 (33:20):
He had finished a Joker, right and he was right
into that, and then he was filming the blah blah
blah blah blah blah Imaginarium. Yeah, something, So I think
he kind of says, I don't think his heart was
in that, and he was struggling pushing through. He also
had broken up with his ex, he was missing his child,
he wasn't drinking, he was trying, He was ambitious about
(33:42):
the future. I mean, this is what I can say
without saying everything, because doing a portrait, a lot of
it's got to do with trust. That stuff people knew.
But there was a whole lot of stuff that I
shared and he shared that we hadn't shared before, and
I feel like he wanted to He avoided having his
portrait painted his whole life. He felt like it was
(34:04):
kind of like a spiritual thing to him. He wanted
me to have everything, every bit of me information. But
also we just got along really really well.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
So that if anyone was going to paint a portrait
of him, it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah. He waited. He got asked for years and years,
and we waited, and we were waiting and waiting, and
it just timing matched. But there was you know, we
had a very special chemistry that you know, he just
feel like, oh fuck, someone understands me, and we both did.
And when I went to his house that following morning,
(34:37):
I walked in, it was really weird because it was
like we didn't even talk, and he grabbed in his
pajamas with his t shirt off, and he grabbed a
chair and he walked outside and he put the chair
out on the back of Miranda and he sat in
the chair and he just meditated. And I was like,
I was thinking, I start taking photos. It's just like,
(34:57):
you know, do I meditate? Anyway? I started taking photos
and he's there for it uncomfortably long time. Then he
kind of walked around himself like he was still in
a chair, and yelling and screaming and laughing, and I
just snapped away and then it ended and we didn't
you know, it was like truly a collaboration. I've had
(35:19):
some experiences similar, but nothing like that. He's just without words.
It was the most powerful performance. He was showing you
his complexities and all those things we talked about. He
just turned into a one man show. It was.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
But you also picked out and that's that's As a
portrait artist, I imagine your the muse for you is
to find those notes and go it's this.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
It's that because there are a lot of options, and
I always think to do a good portrait, you can't
overthink it and it can become a bit contrived or
literal or something. And there were certain aspects of what
he was doing that just stood out.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
There is more to my conversation with Vincent Vanchuzzo after
the break. We talk about how, literally hours upon finishing
the portraits, Vincent received the news of Heath Ledger's death.
So there's something magical happened with this portrait. So you
come back to Melbourne, you're working on it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, last thing he said, and I think I've spoke
about this before was this portrait's going to change our life,
And I thought that was a really weird comment.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
He was going back to the States.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yep, he was going back. I was going back to Melbourne,
and like never before, I worked obsessively, like day and night.
I was just and thinking about him. You meditate about
the person and the conversations. I also think that is
what makes a good portrait apport. It have a life
and charisma, like you have to believe in it while
(37:00):
you're painting it. And three weeks, you know, we might
have had a couple of short texts exchange, but he
worked flat out and I worked flat out.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And also as a back note to these, because he'd
broken up with his partner, he had his daughter who
he had left. You had a child at that point,
and you were then married, and that was also complicated.
So those we.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Were sharing all this stuff we spoke about. It's like
he told the future. I know Heith was very ambitious
about his future, and I know he didn't take his life,
but he did. And his dad said this, he didn't.
He thought he wasn't going to grow old. And I
finally just you know, I don't know why I have
(37:45):
those thoughts is that's something everyone did. But it was
like it was something like he knew and he didn't
say it like he was just throwing the comment out.
He grabbed my hand and looked in my eyes and
said it and that's pretty You know, it's just a portrait.
You think like it changed my life for every day
(38:05):
of my life.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, of course, because your arrangement with him was that
he was going to see it when it was finished
in the flesh, so I sent it to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Him that that night that I finished. It was the
same size as my television TV. Yeah, there's a big TV.
At the time, I don't know, I spend money on
stupid shit. I had it next to my TV, and
I went to bed and I turned the TV on
and there it is. He's passed away. And it was
(38:35):
just all of a sudden, I'm thrown into this, like well,
wind of people knew I was doing the portrait and
it got to depress and they're calling me within hours
and you know, news like they're outside my door because
I don't know why, because there was other stuff to
do with him to talk about. But somehow this painting
(38:57):
jumped in the forefront.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Was on the cover of that it was going to
be the Archibald, and the Archibald has such a people
in the country who know nothing about art.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
It's not that important now anymore because I don't know.
It's just going to have.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Many of the people's choice, including with Heath. So Heath's
dad and family decided that you should.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Stick to the stick to the plan. And I heard
Heath's voice in my head like, fuck, you're entering it.
I didn't do that for nothing, neither did you. But
to have, you know, one of the highest points of
my career at that time, and having an attached to
the loss of someone that meant so much to me
(39:47):
and to everyone else was there. Really it's still very bittersweet.
Everything about it is like now, I also, have you
know Kim Ledger such a big part of my life.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yes, you hadn't met prior to that, but Heath had
told him about you and his friendship with you. And
how long after Heath past did that Archibald happen?
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh like a week? Oh, because I was finishing it
in time for that as well, so raw completely raw,
like at least maybe even within days. And I was
in the airport carrying this picture and people are like, oh,
that's the picture from TV. And I was like, oh yeah,
it's kind of half smiling and half crying. And I
(40:35):
spent a lot of time half smiling, half crying since
because it's like, you know, even recently, I've got you know,
all his family and his friends and everyone. They're they're
like my family now, Like it's pretty crazy. And Kim
recently said to me, Kim Heat's dad said, I wish
(40:57):
I had understood Heath. I wish Heath I haud have
known that I now understand him much better than I
did at the time, because Heath was very spiritual, right.
They didn't agree on it, you know, they had a rub,
their career rub because Heath made his decisions instinctively and spiritually,
(41:17):
and his dad didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
He was not common between fathers and sons.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
You managed him for a long time, and I think
one of the things that really hits him is that
he now completely gets it. And he wishes that Heath
had known that he now knows his son better than
he did before.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
And that's that's partly because he knows you.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, I think, and that makes me happy that you know,
I did that for the two of them. Because they've
done so much for me. It also makes me think
about doing the book. You know, maybe you just got
to do things tell people you love them.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I remember saying that portrait at the time, and it
was just so him. You really cut through in a
way that I think a lot of artists don't. You
went on to gain more momentum as this little snowball,
this Vinnie Snowball, and gathering other people in your wake.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I always met interesting people my whole life, you know,
like Aliyah and you know, and I got to experience
some pretty amazing stuff people don't. But then to feel
you're this kid that always felt inferior, and then you
have people like well, when I met Baz, I didn't
even know who he was. But then you realize and
(42:42):
you like.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Nearly had a fight.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
It would have been like a bitch fight. You know,
obviously I would have taken him down. He didn't know.
It's pretty funny because we're at Bazi is so flam.
I love bas It makes me smile to think about him. Funnily.
One of our amazing directors, Michael Gracie. You know, Michael
Gracie did Greatest Showman and he just did the Monkey movie,
(43:08):
you know, very tough. He was a friend. I remember
him young, running around Sydney trying to make films and
then he bumps into his mates Joel and Nash Edguton
with the handicams and they're trying to make films and
now they're all big stars. So I went to a
club with Michael Gracie. He says, meet my friend. It
(43:29):
was his ex boss. He worked for Bads at some point.
And anyway, this fancy guy, mister fancy talking about telling
started referencing art history and my painting and yeah, and
I'm just talking about art and I'm like, you would
you know, white haired guy. And then so I start,
you know, telling this guy what I think and then
(43:52):
starts to get quite intense, and people are just like
watching them. He kind of stood up and pointed his
finger or something, and I'm like, man, wrong person. So
I stood up and I'm like a back to broad
Meadows mate. You know. We just looked and we kind
of looked around at people, and then we just started laughing.
And I think that was, you know, when we became
(44:13):
good friends, and we just kind of we thought it
was funny that people thought that we were more serious
than we were, like nothing was going to happen and yeah,
and then back to her. So I'm this kid. I'm
still this kid, and I still am now and I'm thinking, oh,
you know, this is someone special that actually puts me
(44:34):
on their level, and it's just, you know, I still
have the impostor situation going on. Even now. I get
a text from the Prime Minister. You know, not which
Julia good one, the one people the.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
One I wrote down? How many times you won the
People's Choice Award.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I can't remember now, so I'll I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
So you won it with Heath in twenty two thousand
and eight, you won in two thousand and nine, you
won in twenty thirteen, you won in twenty fourteen. One
of those was bas painting of bads Lot.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Finally, the one of Baz didn't get in. He thinks
it's because someone doesn't like him. But won a Doug
Moran prize.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
That's right, Okay, you did your your eldest.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Son, Yeah so Luca, yeah as one, Yeah, yes, matte one. Matt,
my brother Matt, Now he won the the Packing Room Prize.
And then he calls me up and you go, there's
this thing they say, he's a cursor when the Packing
Room Prize you can't win, He's like fucking won the
Packing Room Prize. Yeah, because he's he's better than that.
(45:46):
That was the band that was meant to win.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
You mentioned Matt Moran, the Chief, a dear friend of yours,
and it was through him that, Yes, another incredible thing
happened to you.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah. See, this is what I'm talking about, this coincidences
and the way things happen. And I was I did
thirty so project on that special night with we came
up with this project We're going to do in New York,
thirty portraits thirty days. And he was going to show
me around New York and we thought, what better way
(46:19):
to get to know people than to do a portrait
a day. So I paint your portrait and you suggest
the next.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
One someone else, and then you go do it.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And so I did it. It was intense. I needed
some help after that. I did it in Hong Kong.
Then I did it in New York. It was awesome,
and now I said I'd do it in Melbourne, but
because I already know the city. It was about inspirational
Australians and you know Matt said, well, you better do
my portrait, so I did, and then I said, you
(46:47):
better do my portraits so inspirational important, and Matt suggested Asher,
and Baz suggested Elizabeth to Becky. So then I got
two actresses a good look in that campaignt now. But
I didn't. I had no idea who Asha was, because
I don't have an idea who anyone is.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
She didn't know who I was, and you weren't an offspring,
never even heard the word before, and yeah, bigger show
at the time.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
So Matt insisted that I do the portrait, and I
wanted to anyway when I saw RuSHA, and Asha's agent
kind of encouraged her as well. On the day of meeting,
I was trying to find babysitter for Luca. I was single, dadding,
and I was running late. I couldn't explain that to her, couldn't.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Explain uncommon for you, I imagine, and I imagine she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Really run late, Yes, exactly, she doesn't run late, and
she had she doesn't have a lot of patience for
those people that run late and anywhere else. Then I
was trying to clean the studio. I was rolling out
the wheelie bins looking like a mess, and then I
see ashually, I think I dropped the bins and that
was kind of it. We like something. I do have
(48:08):
magical moments. I'm dreaming them. But it was and she
ended up in my bed that night. No, she didn't
for that. She said, if you joke about those things,
people think that it's serious. It's not true.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
That just happened in life. And we do know that
you have a son together, so.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
At some point, you do you do you calculate the age. No,
she wasn't like that at all, but we just I
worked so hard to do that painting in record time.
It was like I was a robot because I wanted
to impress her.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
And you said you'd seen her a photo of it
when it was finished, So.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Like you know, three hours later.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Sending your photos, both of you have seen independently of
each other that you knew as soon as you saw
each other.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, I knew as soon as she was like touching
my leg on the table that she liked me.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Because you can't talk seriously about this because you're all boys.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
But there is a photo of us on that day
and you can see we look like we've been together
for a long time, but.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Your younger brother took who was there, which is amazing.
You took that photo together.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I know, like our whole there's even a there's a
great film because I filmed her as well, and you
can see it's kind of looking at each other and
it's really funny to like to pretty amazing. I got
film over our first meeting and it's she's so cute
in it as well, Like I can see just you know,
because I know obviously now what was happening. It's just yeah,
(49:44):
pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
But you came to her with still your secrets.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, you know, it's funny just looking at your face.
I just hear ashes ashes words like no, it's like
they're protecting her.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
It's pretty funny.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Well, you both have an ability to say a lot
just with a look.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Well, you know, I think listeners.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I can't see that look.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
Well, you fell in love with someone who Australia was
already in love with. So I think a lot of
us feel very protective of Asher because she's always been
such an extraordinary artist, but also with such dignity and
beauty and grace, and yet she fell in love with
(50:32):
someone who had a certain amount of chaos.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, and again I can't now I'm thinking at that
time I already love her too much. I can't let
her find out because then she's not going to so
that you couldn't read, Yeah, of the list, you know,
I can't read. I'm going through my own kind of
divorce thing that's over, but you know, still lingering. I
(50:59):
have a child. I don't really know, you know, I
struggle to organize my own lunch, and I'm looking after
a kid and trying to have a career and can't
read right. But I can cook. So I imparted her over
for food.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
What did you cook it?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Well? I had chicken and capscum and onion and some
olives and I remember them anyway. I wander over with yeah,
pasta and but eventually I do know she took things
pretty well considering, and she went from being you know,
quite happy by herself in the country with her horses,
(51:37):
She's thrown into my chaotic mess, which is stuck.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
With which seems to be sort of strangely complimentary. Your
love and your devotion to each other is and your
connection is so.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yeah, we don't really have another choice. Like we're like everyone,
we're you know, passionate people, and yeah, she makes mistakes
and I accept her mistakes all the time.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
You look again that.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
You know we you know, like everyone else, we have
different opinions, but you know we respect the opinions, and
you know we can we both were passionate people, but
there's no choice. We're not going anywhere. We love the
love each other, and I think, you know, challenging each
other is part of our relationship, but in a good way,
(52:32):
and we've done it so often that it's never a
big deal, Like we kind of smart, have a smile
on our face while we do it.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
And creatively, both of you seem to ignorege each other.
So you just really went from strength to strengths, as
has she.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
Sometimes I've pracass lines with her and I'm, yeah, why
you're laughing so much? Because I can't read them. But
you know, she tells mem and I somehow dialogue in conversation.
I can remember improvising, but I can remember the story.
The story I can remember, so then we can do lines.
(53:08):
But you know, we do some fun stuff like that.
If I'm doing a portrait, I always ask her opinion.
I don't necessarily agree, but she's she'll give me the
true love opinion of what she thinks. Like most people say,
well what do you think? I think the same thing,
and she's gives me the opinion that I need to hear.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
All right. So though you were so as one with Asher,
your wife, the mother of your sons, or a mother
of your sons, you still had inside you the great
unspoken secret and the shame of the abuse that you
had endured as a child. At what point did it
(54:00):
become too much to contain?
Speaker 2 (54:14):
Oh, mister emotional. Uh, it was something. I was talking
to a friend yesterday and who had just read the book,
and he said, you know, you could have talked to me,
like we talk about everything. It was almost like he
(54:35):
was offended, but he wasn't. He's very nice, Like he
just thought, oh, why you know you could have spoken
to me about this. I don't speak to anyone at
all at all.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Ever, No, And but Asha must have known. There was
always something.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Pretty fucking good out lying when it comes to shame,
not generally, you know, she can pick pick that stuff
a mile away. It's you know, finally I write it
down for everyone to read, and I couldn't tell anyone
at all. And you know, it's the only thing about
(55:15):
abuse that and I can't even you know, I can't
even talk about it like in detail. But it can
be you know, it wasn't just one moment, but it
can be one moment in someone's life for thirty seconds,
(55:35):
and it could go on for years. It could just
be thirty seconds, though, and for the rest of their life.
They are stuck with a reaction to everything that you know,
happens in their daily life in every way. And you know,
maybe not thirty seconds, but you know what I'm saying,
it's one moment in someone's life.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
The impacts is so significant. Yeah, they just got robbed
that there's before and then this after.
Speaker 2 (56:03):
Exactly, they just got robbed of everything and you can't
make it go away, and you don't tell anyone, and
it just gets worse. So then every you know, I'm
thinking that I deserve you know, I deserve this, or
(56:23):
you know, churches and religion don't have people either, you know.
I mean, I don't know, but you just feel like
you feel disgusting, and you feel disgusted in yourself, You
feel ashamed, you feel like you can't tell anyone. Why
can't I tell anyone? Because maybe I deserved it, or
maybe this is I asked for something.
Speaker 1 (56:44):
Or maybe this person won't love me if they know
this but not just.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yes, absolutely so, then they're going to think no one
wants damaged goods and my damage goods. So I'll keep
it to myself, just like the reading and writing, Like
if I don't tell people that don't know, and they're
just going to not judge me, you know, if I
start saying, oh, and it's like the book, you know,
like I don't want to feel like some sorry case,
(57:11):
you know, like im or I don't feel like I
don't know people went through a lot more shit than
I did. You know, it doesn't matter if you what
background you're from. You can be from a privileged background.
You can be in a slum in India, you can
be whatever it is. And stuff like this you know
happens to Mark, could happen to anyone and marks you
(57:34):
and such a you know, why am I Do I
have to think about that on the birth of my child? Yes?
Buck that up?
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, because your boys must when they
were at the age that you were.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Or my kid goes through a sleepover m hm and
I can't sleep, or you know, it's you're getting married
and you think about you lose your virginity you kiss
someone from the first time. You know, it's not just
that stuffid it can be anything. You meet someone and
(58:11):
you see something and you're suspicious and you might they
might not deserve your suspicion and you have to think.
You have to think like that.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
That's changed how you move through the world.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
I had a lot, Oh had a lot of anger.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
M h Asha said she did too when she found out.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
She still does.
Speaker 1 (58:44):
How was the moment when you or was it a
moment or was it a gradual when you shed that
most private part of.
Speaker 2 (58:56):
You with her? I think it just gave us, you know,
and it allowed usher also to you know, it's like
i'll share something, you share something she shared. You know,
she's quite good at that, and she'll I don't know
if she's quite good at that actually, but she said
(59:16):
shared vulnerabilities with me too. Actually, she's probably not good
at that. That's why when she does it means something.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
But maybe that's what you two are good at together.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
And it also it just gave her maybe a bit
more perspective on my reactions generally to things. And it's
also again, there's a lot in the book that I
hope people can connect with. It makes me feel more comfortable,
but it's one of the things that you know, I
know someone else is going to feel and you know
(59:50):
they might. Actually someone did read the book and they
said that there was some stuff that they never looked
at in themselves and helped them in a big, big way.
And I'm like, then that makes the book worthwhile, just
that alone.
Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Would you like a portrait of you from your wife,
Asha Keady? Would you like that? Vin Do you like that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Cheeky little on the table? You know? Asha, I've had
radio stations call me and ask me if I can
do stuff to you, and I.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Said no, So Vincent. Despite the significant challenges Vinnie has
experienced and strives to make peace with, I think all
the time about the capacity he has to love, to inspire,
to engage, to ignite positivity in anyone who crosses his path.
(01:00:52):
What matters most to him is connection, deep connection with me,
with his sons, but also with anyone that he invests in.
In our early years together, this need for authentic connection
proves to be a conundrum of sorts, because there was
this fierce self protection in place too, that I wasn't
(01:01:14):
entirely able to understand. Life together is exhilarating, though there
have been times I have felt like I'm balancing on
the edge of a cliff with him, desperate to earn
his trust. I think several years into our relationship, when
he was able to share his true state with me,
(01:01:34):
I was really able to appreciate the strength and resilience
he has. It's still complex, and we both need that.
Though an extraordinary honesty has developed between us. We've spent
our entire relationship peeling back the layers, exposing our vulnerabilities,
(01:01:55):
both of us with the shared purpose of creating a healthy, fulfilling,
emotional life for ourselves and especially our children. Of the
many things I love about this man, and I knew
he was my person the day we meet. I respect
him so much for this courage.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Told me I didn't want to be emotional, and she's like, like,
you see what I write to her.
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I think she loves you, And really, so many people
in the world love you, and you've shared your You've
shared your gift with the world. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
There was an article in the Daily Mail two days
ago telling Asha how lucky she is to have me
because of my abs, you know what, I'm very I'm
just so humbled by it. Like you know, I feel
there's a lot of people that struggle when they have
(01:03:02):
ship and they don't get to be where I am,
and I have someone like you know, having you know,
like one of the most special people in every way,
and my kids.
Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
And you know, I think it was I think it
was kim a dad who said, when talent and passion
come together, then kind of everything happens. And you've allowed
(01:03:36):
that to happen. And the truths that you've shared are
kind of universal truths, deeply personal to you, of course
in private, but there's something universal about them. And I
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
On no filter. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
When I was talking to Vincent, it was impossible for
me not to see him through the prism of his
marriage to Asher and the power of the extraordinary differences
that their relationship encompasses, and how they both make it work,
and how they both refer to each other as their
person both being artists, formidable artists within their own right,
(01:04:24):
but Vincent having battled like proper demons and continuing to
do so. And God, I love people who share their vulnerabilities.
It's amazing how often we're introduced to someone at the
height of their success, but we don't have any idea
what the road looked like that led them to where
(01:04:44):
they are now. This conversation, of course, only scratched the
surface of Vincent's tumultuous and fascinating life, and that's why
he has written a book. It's called Unveiled, and we've
put all the details in the show notes. We've also
shared some links for mental health support if the conversation
has stood up any hard emotions for you. The executive
(01:05:08):
producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, the senior producer
is Bree Player. Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown,
and I'm your host, Kate lane Brook. Thanks for listening,
and we'll keep them coming.
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