June 14, 2023 • 69 mins
Sally reflects on the new evidence revealed in court; an old friend of Marion’s speaks out… plus could another woman have had a close call with Ric Blum?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher,
friend missing for twenty six years.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, no sign that she was going to vanish.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
That's for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm not sure if it was intentional or there's something
more foul afoot.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive,
I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The lady vanishes, Episode fifty. I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
And I'm Brian Seymour. The coronial Inquest into the disappearance
of Marion Barter has completed public hearings, leaving millions of
people around the world waiting to learn what findings Coroner
Teresa O'Sullivan will hand down at a date yet to
be determined. None more so than Marian's daughter, Sally Laden
(01:41):
with whom we embarked on this quest for justice and truth.
Four and a half years ago. We caught up with
Sally and you will shortly hear her reactions to the
last few days of hearings and some fascinating new information. First,
(02:01):
we want to share something noticed by one of our listeners.
On the final day of hearings, Rick Bloom gave evidence
for about an hour via video here. Sally's lawyer, Bradley
Smith asked him a question about his banking in two
thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And did you open a safety deposit box at the
Commonwealth Bank six days later on the twenty eighth of
September two thousand and six.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I can't remember the date. At the common Worst Bank,
I had an envelope with because there were lots of like,
there were lots of people stating things, and I have
an envelope which with the title of the house, the
sojurary of my family and a few mementos, and an
(02:48):
envelope that was about twelve to fifteen centimeters wide and
probably twenty centimeters long. You can't put a lot of
things in. And because I had that envelope and later
on a security box or or whatever you call it
become available and I was given to me.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
We are particularly interested in this part of his answer.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And I haven't ended up which with the title of
the house.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
The problem is that Rick Bloom was in two thousand
and six living in rented accommodation. So what title to
property did he have to store in the safe deposit
envelope at the Commonwealth Bank. Perhaps this is yet another
slip revealing more uncomfortable truths about Rick Bloom. Shortly, I'll
(03:36):
talk to Sally Leyden about a few other slips mister
Bloom made while on the stand.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
But first, another member of the public has reached out
with an intriguing account of something that happened more than
twenty years ago, which may suggest that mister Blum's amorous
adventures lying to women about being single and looking for
romance whilst he was married may have continued uninterrupted through
(04:04):
the early two thousands, involving more women than the seven
we have so far identified. Hello, Hello, Lean there, it's
Alison Sandy.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How are you. I'm good, How are you I'm well?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Thank you, thank you so much for allowing me to
call you. But I just thought you know, every little
bit helps with this thought.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, well, I mean it's just as I said, it's
just a very small thing with not a lot of
interaction on my part, But just the name really stood out,
and I just thought that given the time that had occurred,
there was bound toby other people that would have had
interactions at the same time, and I just thought, because
the name is so unusual, possible that it could in
(04:48):
fact be related. I was just trying to remember exactly
the timing, and it would have been I think around
middle of two thousand and two. And the reason that
I know that it would have been that time is
that I was not single for a very long time.
I was my current partner I had broken up, and
so you know, I was in Sydney, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Know a lot of people, and like a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
At that time, thought i'd try RSVP dating and you know,
I had a few dates. But the reason that this
sort of sticks out is that i'd with that whole service.
I don't know whether you remember it, but basically you
can reach out to people or people reach out to you,
and I had pretty much not reached out to anyone being,
(05:33):
you know, sort of old fashioned I'd waited for people
to contact me, but there was a profile on there
that was in hindsight like kind of immediately after what happened,
I realized it must have been fake. And it was
a really attractive French sounding person who I think they
identified as French as in really.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Attractive model kind of like that I never would.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Have reached out to because I thought, you know, it
was kind of way out of my league. But you know,
I probably had a few drinks one night and sort
of sent a message.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Now a message came back to me pretty quickly that.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Was something like that this particular person that I'd reached
out to was in a relationship or something like that,
but that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
He had then or whoever it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was had reached out had then basically either linked me
with another profile or the contact had come from this
other profile on RSVP. And this name of the other
person was Bernard DuPont, much older than the person that
the profile that I'd reached out to, and had a
(06:41):
really kind of unusual kind of description of that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
You might recall that Bernard DuPont is one of the
fifty plus aliases. Rick Blum has used this one in
the nineteen seventies. In episode thirty six, he told the
coroner that mister DuPont was a real person, the manager
at the Bank Nacionale de Paris in Sydney, which was
next door to the pension office he frequently visited, but
(07:11):
he could offer no explanation as to why he assumed
his identity. Now. Linda says in two thousand and two
she was dealing with someone using the same name.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
He was a French businessman, and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
The photo looked a bit like a younger version of
one of the photos that you showed of Rick Bloom.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I remember he had dark hair, but much older than me.
I was in my mid thirties.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And the whole thing just instantly sounded to me like
it was a big scam, like there was you know,
that the first person probably wasn't even real, and the
second person, that Bernard DuPont, just sounded for fake. Like
I didn't even I don't think I even responded, because
I just thought the whole thing sounded just so weird,
(08:00):
you know, I just thought that the first one had
clearly been set as a scam for whoever this other
person was, And that.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Was the kind of entirety of my interaction with.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It, and just the reason that stuck in my mind
was just that it was so odd and yeah, so
that was kind of it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I really appreciate you letting me know because it's it's
just obviously the tendacles.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And you know, as I said, given the timing that
it was in the in the early two thousands, because
I was trying to think, this is the only other
time that I was sort of single in Sydney was
in nineteen ninety seven, but I absolutely believed that it
was on RSVP, which wasn't until a bit later in
the early two thousands, So I'm pretty sure that it was.
(08:50):
If it wasn't two thousand and two, it would have
been sort of late two thousand and one. But I'm
pretty sure it was two thousand and two, and I
just remember that profile then kind of was popping up
all the time, so that that profile was active for
a long time on rs VP, or at least the
time that I was that I was viewing RSVP backing
(09:11):
in that year. So you know, there's bound to be
other people who would have had contact with that particular
profile at that time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Absolutely there would have been and I know it's hard
for people to come out, and we've actually been really
grateful to the people that have, including you, even though
you know it's just to tell us this, because it's
just it's so important, every little bit, and we always
say that no, nothing is too minor, but this is
this is quite significant anyway because it shows, you know,
(09:43):
even the dating apps as well.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah. Now, and as I said, I forgot kind of
failing new to you to your podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It was someone that I work with.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Very recently said I used to listen to this and
then when I was going through all the alienses, it just.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Kind of jumped out and going, I remember that name.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's that's weird. So and look, it might be completely
unrelated as well, but it might also be that I
just remember it because it was an unusual and good
French thing, and that it just seemed instantly to me
like it was there was something odd about it that
it was not genuine.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
It sounds like Linda may have had a lucky escape.
We are in our fifth year of investigating Marian's disappearance,
and we are still finding new clues and information as
well as creating an ever expanding picture of who Marian
was now Another friend of Marian's has agreed to talk
(10:42):
with us. Kerry Hubal was a childhood friend, and like Marian,
she too became a teacher. She has fond recollections of
Marian Wilson as she first knew her, and some strong
opinions about what has happened to her. Okay, Alison, Sandy,
how are you.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I'm pretty good. How are you?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I'm well? I mean, like I think the last time
we actually spoke in person was the first when the
inquest started two years ago into Marion Barta. Do you
remember that in Sydney?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, I do so, I certainly do so.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean, this must be really remarkable for you can
first of all, I guess, because obviously our listeners will
want to know how you actually know Marian. Can you
can you tell us.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
About Yes, we went to the same school for taking Hi,
we're in the same year. She was in the AH
stream and I was in the B stream. But we
became friends, and she had several friends, not just me,
And eventually I went to stay with my father who
(11:53):
lived somewhere else, and she came with me on holidays
and we became very firm friends. For a while there
so it is.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Can you tell me what you remember about Marian because
I mean, we've been doing this now for five years
and a lot of people have been listening. But sometimes
people forget. I mean they you know, they see her
picture and everything, but you know, she was a living,
breathing person with a personality. Can you tell me what
you remember about her?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yes, Marian, Well, I would never have called her shy,
but I would call her had She had a reserve
about her. I read somewhere that people thought she was naive.
She was never naive as a young person. She was reserved.
She was friendly. The boys certainly loved Mary, and she
(12:46):
was a very attractive girl. I wouldn't have called her intellectual,
but I would have called her very smart, very intelligent.
And it was just this reserve about her. She was
able to well, would you say she was able to
live her life without other people intruding upon it. I
(13:06):
would have said. We went to stay with my father
and we shared a room. We went out together, we
went to the beach. The boys loved her. I was
sort of tinkering after boys, but she didn't particularly want to,
but they loved her. Might have been that cool exterior
that she had. Yeah, we discovered lipsticks together. We bought
(13:28):
matching outfits in different colors. When we went away. She
was that's as I said, she was going through the
a stream, which when she was quite smart.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
When you say matching outfits, I'm curious because this had
been the sixties, right, what do you remember what the
outfits were and.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Might have been the late fifties ideas I can remember
we had. We both were were sure. I mean, things
weren't as stylised then as they are now. We bought
matching sun hats, great big sub hats, huge sun's. In fact,
she ordered them for us. One was she had blue,
I had yellow. We had shorts that were similar. We
(14:09):
were different body shapes, so mine didn't look quite as
good on me as they did on her. I was
actually told by my stepmother Neves to wear them again,
but she looked great in them. What else we had
matching lipsticks that we went and bought together, and things
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So it was a fun, easy going, you know, just
just a really enjoyable time. I suppose quite innocent. I
suppose in.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
The oh, very definitely, yes, I mean we were. She's
three months older than me, you know, three months is
a lot more when you're young than when you reached
this age, so that I did see Marian as perhaps
a bit of a slightly older than me and therefore
(14:53):
knew more than me. But yeah, no, no, she was
great to be with. We got along very well for what.
We separated in different directions a little bit later in
high school because although we stay friends, I left and
she continued on and then went on to Balmain Teachers
(15:17):
College to be a study to study.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As a teacher, did the teaching as well.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I am a teacher, but I didn't do teaching. Then
I left school early. I left school at fifteen. I
hated school. I just hated it so much. I just
wanted to get away because I learned learned later the
value of school and went back and did my HSC.
But at the time I didn't like school at all.
Marion loved it, and I hope she was very popular.
(15:45):
A lot of people liked Marian.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She always. I mean, when I look at the photo,
she was so sophisticated, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, I guess that's that's how you would interpret I
never saw her as sophisticated. I saw her as fairly
self contained.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Didn't you need other people's approval necessarily, Is that what
you're trying to mean?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Or to a large extent, I mean, I remember well,
whilst we were on holidays up at Kendall, we walked
down the street and the boys would all call out
to Marian and she just ignored them. And I furiously
waved because I was young and you know, unaware of
(16:25):
the games people play, and I'd wave and they'd all
turn away. Then they'd call out to Marian again, and
she used to say to me, just ignore, just ignore them.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So around this time, you would have been maybe thirteen.
I was fourteen, fourteen, so at that stage not quite
having having boyfriends, but just you know, I guess getting
their attention.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Now. I think Maryon had a few admirers. There's no
doubt there's a touch of boys that really liked Marian.
I was a lot more gauky than than Marian. She was.
She had a nice body and nice, lovely tan skin,
great smile, but she had a few guys that she'd
(17:16):
had her eye on at different times. But certainly we
weren't pursuing any serious relationships or anything like that at
this point. We did go out with guys together. We
went out ass but going to the movies and back
home again. No, I have no idea what I thought.
(17:36):
I didn'tink I was watching all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was just the time when, yes, when, okay, So
when you make out in the theaters of times.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Exactly, and you'd start begging out and the front row
would start whistling and carrying on. So to stop.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh wow, that sounds like exciting times. So when did
you find out about what had happened that Marian was missing?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Look, I have no I a lot of thought on
Marian through the years and wondered what she was doing.
I knew she married Johnny Warren because she used to
come in and tell me to where I was working.
She'd come in on her way to I think it
was the James station and tell me what was going on.
(18:26):
And she told me once she's getting married on Saturday,
And I said, I knew she was dating Johnny Warren
and I said, oh great. She came in the following
week and she said we didn't get married, And I
said what happened? And she said, I changed my mind,
but we are going to get married. We'll get We
just put it off for a while I need to
think about things. That's what she told me. I didn't
(18:49):
know how true it was. I didn't really wasn't that concerned.
We had another mutual friend that I was spending more
time with, Tammy, and Tammy was seeing much more Marian
than I was at the time I heard she got married.
(19:10):
I think she told me she got married, and really
we then slipped out of the picture. We just didn't
see each other anymore. I realized once I discovered that
Marian was missing, that she had moved at some point
to Queensland, and I didn't know. I do remember that
she had she was one of four girls, and that
(19:32):
a mother and father lived not far from where I did.
So I often wondered, because you know, we had been
good friends, but friends move on. So how did I discover?
Probably through your podcasts. I had heard about them, and
then I saw a picture. I thought, that's my friend
Marian Wilson. So I think I contacted you and said
(19:57):
I know her, but she's not Marian Barter, She's Marian Wilson.
And you said Marion Bart's her last married name, and
that's why it all came to my attention.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So reading about her and what happened in her life
and everything. You know, I guess she had three husbands,
and then I guess the latest with with her having
changed her name and disappeared. I mean, what were you thinking?
Was this something? Was this the Marian that you remembered
or No.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
No, I would never have called a secretive. I would
have called a reserve. But I would never have called
a secretive when she was younger. Anyway, who knows what
life tosses you in it between. No, I, I was
quite shocked. Honesty was an important thing for Marian. Do
(20:49):
you remember we've discussed it. We talked about another person's
behavior and had discussed honesty and it was very important
to her. So I read this and I was quite surprised.
She wasn't consistent with what I knew. She was very
(21:09):
the reserved. She was very night to put it nicely
up front, but not nasty. She would tell you if
what you did concerned her.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
One of the things that we I mean you obviously,
and I was a long time between knowing her, but
you know, the foundations are set in a person by
the time they're a teenager. If she had found out
that she was being taken for a ride, or that
someone was deceiving her and that they were already married.
Do you think she's the sort of person that would
confront them about it.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Eventually? Yes, yes I do. She would never be aggressive
about it. She was not an aggressive person, but I
do think she would confront them. I think she'd think
about it first. She wouldn't, She's not feel for a type.
I would have also thought she'd have discussed it with
(22:06):
somebody else first. Maybe she didn't have that opportunity. Yes,
I do believe she would have confronted them, in believing,
you know, one had to be fair and honest about
these things.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, particularly since she obviously had a firm belief about honesty.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Absolutely. Look, I read quite a bit of the comments
that particularly her daughter and one of her former husbands made,
and there were clearly changes in her personality, the secretiveness. Look,
I remember when we're we're probably about fifteen, she went
(22:48):
to the movies with a guard, but instead of going
to the movies, they drove down this two I think
with Engerdein or heath Coat or something like that, and
she told me how they shot in the current pasted
as she put it, which meant that she had a
nexting session with a guy and then came home and
told her parents that it was a lovely movie. Now,
(23:12):
that doesn't dely the fact that I think she's an
honest person. I think she was just covering her tracks
because she wasn't supposed to be out with the boy
other than at the movies. We've all done that, and
I wouldn't consider most people who do that kind of
behavior are dishonest at all, although the action itself might
be Yeah, Look, I just think she would have tried
(23:36):
to deal with it, that's for sure, But that she
went so far as to change her name is what
I find remarkable. That was quite a surprise to me.
That wasn't consistent with how I knew married at all.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
The inquest is now over and the coroner has to
deliver her findings, which are most likely going to be
consistent with the fact that she's no longer alive and
that her disappearance.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I don't think she is either. I don't know what happened,
but one can only speculate. But she feels to me
like she's not around.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So I mean, Marian isn't someone who necessarily would you
would have thought would give up on life.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh no, that's right.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
She would not.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
If anything happened to her, she would put up a
good fight.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So I guess with all of this, you know, just
you know, being for the past five years, been lingering
and being quite present in the media as well. How
do you feel now, I guess looking back at it all.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh, how do I feel? As it's definitely for our
play as far as I'm concerned, Marian's not the type
that would take her own life through being badly treated
or dishonestly treated. I felt that she possibly would have
gone to the police. I think she would have used
(25:11):
whatever access to support. The part that I find so
interesting is the timing of purportedly when she was calling
from England yet being in Australia at a time that
would never have got her back to Australia in time.
That to me, is where I believe a lot of
(25:35):
the dilemma really starts in terms of them being missing.
And that's where I think. I don't know, I don't
know what the police are doing, but I would say
that's really the area that tells where the story is,
what's happened to her. It's just you know, she wasn't
(25:56):
a liar, or clearly she wasn't being totally up either.
She had reasons, I don't know what they were.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I think the thing though, is, I mean everyone by
this age has been in love.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
If she was in love or thought she was in love,
you know, maybe she would have been coerced. I mean
we look at all these other women who were coerced
to do things, yes, certain way.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Oh, I'd say there's an element of that. Obviously, there's
clearly someone has attempted to coerce her. Undoubtedly she's form
at least initially for it. I mean for these people
who bet who were coerced none, so what should call stupid?
And neither is Marion. So whoever would have coerced her
(26:47):
would have been very skilled at it. I can see
her realizing at some point, maybe a bit too late,
but realizing and trying to find a way out and
perhaps met with an unfortunate end along the way.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Sally will be listening to this as well. Is there
anything you'd like to tell you know, is a message
you have a message for Sally?
Speaker 7 (27:12):
That?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, Sally. She was a great woman and I really
wish all the best to you, Sally, Just to know
that things didn't go the way she intended them to, clearly,
And I'm sure wherever she is or whatever is happening
to her now, she'd love to be with you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm sure Marian would be proud of all
the efforts that Sally has made too, because oh absolutely,
she's obviously like Marion in the sense that you know,
she's a fighter. Marion would have done the same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I'm sure, Yes, yes, I think I actually think Sally
is more of a fighter than Marion. And I think Sally,
by the way, must seems to have Marian's brains, because
Marian was very intelligent. I think it was Sally that
said Marian was naive. I never found her naive, but
I I, well, who are to judge at that age.
(28:13):
I found her to be not quick off the mark
with making decisions, usually small, thoughtful about them, and perhaps
that may have slowed down a little bit on a bit.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
The same way, she seemed very romantic, like you know,
I think did said she loved to be loved, don't
we all?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes, clearly that from her history that would show she
was loved at school. The boys loved her. She was
the one that was managed to reserve you know, to
kept them all at arms links, except the occasional one
or two that you know, she fondly recalled. Her sisters
(28:57):
would know her better. She had a very good relationship
with her mother. I remember that, a very loving family.
I know. I met the sisters. I went there for
lunch several times with Marion to their house. It was
a very loving, supportive family. I guess she's grown up
(29:19):
around people who care and wanted to continue with that experience.
It's not consistent. She's not as though she was lacking
in love and concern in her life. She had a
lot of people around her that loved and cared for
her growing up.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I guess the only thing I can think of is
the adoration of men. I mean, obviously, as you get
older it probably subsides a bit, but she she always
obviously enjoyed that, and so I think that's what's come
to play in this scenario where she thought that it
was the real deal and that would have been.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
The other thing about it is that I didn't see her.
I saw her as keeping men at her at her
arms distance, but you know, still having a little you
might say, not around with one or two. Usually the
guy that was considered the most popular around most of
the women. They liked her, she liked them, but she
(30:20):
move on and didn't keep it as a long time,
steady relationship. But her behavior as a younger woman is
not consistent with someone that needs a man around all
the time. So I wouldn't like to speculate on how
(30:43):
that happened. I mean, her sisters would know that better
than me.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah. So, and you know, as you said, you went
back to do teaching everything and made a very successful
life of it. And I'm glad that you did go
back to school.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I went back and did the hsc AT and then
went to went to university and put myself through linguistics.
Oh wow, and then the teaching. I've been a feminist
activist for a long time and though i've you might say,
retired from it, I've never lost the commitment.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Well, you know, so women that are coming together in
there so much. I mean, obviously we've got men as well,
but the overwhelming like the victims of this man like,
it's just been a real solidarity movement.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Oh yeah. It was good to read that they came
out because a lot of women would not be will
put it like this, there's a certain shame one would feel,
but having been a victim, it's it's enormously strong of
these women to come out and give their story. I
just can't but admire them for what they've they're doing now,
(31:51):
and particularly as they're they're older, they're so much older
that all they want now is a quiet life probably
and to be left alone. But they've come out out
to find out what they can contribute to make this
a better situation.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It's amazing, I know, isn't it. It's just really it's
so wonderful to be a part of and you're alone
to carry. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Oh thanks thanks for calling me and talking to me,
and I hope to see you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Absolutely, thank you. Carry keep in touch for you, Lesa
bye bye.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
Thank you Carrie for sharing with us your memories and
insights into one of the women at the heart of
this story, the other, of course being her daughter Sally.
I live in Sydney, Sally lives in Brisbane, so we
don't get to catch up in person very often, but
now it's time to check in with sal Via Zoom.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Hi Sale, Hello, how are you good?
Speaker 7 (32:57):
Good? Good to hear you boys.
Speaker 6 (33:00):
Final three days of hearings at the inquest marked sixteen
days of evidence plus one day of submissions. That has,
over the past two and a half years turned this
investigation on its head. Sally has had time to reflect
on what we've just heard.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
Did you have a chance to tune into the inquest
last week?
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Yep, watched the lot.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
What was your reaction to those three extra days the
public hearings.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I think it was really important that those women had
a chance to voice their story to everybody. You know,
we're in a position where, yet again we've had women
who have gone to the police and noted their concerns
and seemingly they were just given the generic thanks for
(33:49):
that information and sent on their way. Little did they
know that, you know, they weren't the only ones. So
I'm really happy that by doing all of this, we've
given them an opportunity to actually have their voices heard
as well. And you know, really grateful to you know,
both of them, because they're elderly, you know, I mean,
(34:10):
Gislaine stayed up until over one am to give her
evidence and you know, God bless Andre, you know, sharp
as attack, as opposed to what we were led to believe.
So you know, I'm eternally grateful that they've given their
voice because silence is my enemy and I need people
(34:32):
to speak up and you know, help me find out
what's happened to my mum. So them doing that is
a step forward in potentially understanding a little bit more.
Speaker 7 (34:42):
Yeah, and you're right that the first point you made,
Julane did go to the police in Belgium. Maybe if
they'd acted or identified this guy contacted the authorities here,
he wouldn't have been able to do what he did
to Andrea and the other victim later.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, that's been the the key grind for me, I
think is you know, going right the way back and
finding what we found and noting documentation back in the
seventies and eighties where police and authorities who should be
looking after that side of things made a note that
it should be done and then put it in the
(35:20):
wrong file and then obviously got lost. And you know,
from where I sit, if that had actually transpired and
there'd been action taken back then Rick Blum wouldn't have
met my mum, that's for certain. So that puts us
in a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 7 (35:36):
I noticed that again, Christina flew out all the way
from England to this more Wales to be there to
support you and to be there for this inquest the
second you've done that. I mean, how would you describe
the dedication that Christine and more broadly that the web
slus have put into this investigation your story.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
Yeah, unbelieve. I have no words really except thank you
from the bottom of my heart, because these people care.
They care about my mum for like I think, first
and foremost, and then they care about me, and they
care about my children, who are you know, the grandchildren
of my missing mum. And you know, I think we've
(36:22):
all been blown away by the reaction and the support
that we've gained from the supporters and keeping the story
alive and you know, and that to me again, I
always say it is power of the people. Without them
and without their push and without their support, we might
not have got anywhere. You know. It's amazing what happens
(36:46):
when there's a portion and a shove. And unfortunately I've
been in a position where I've had to do that
to get the answers, so not something I've liked doing,
but you know, having all those people supporting, you know,
and Christine has been there with me from the start
of the podcast. And you know we've we've met numerous
(37:07):
times and I caught up with her in Sydney on
the weekend, took her out for breakfast and just you know,
how to be hug and you know, she loves it
over here and she loves coming back and hanging out
with us. So you know, we've become like family. You know,
her husband came over for work a few months ago
and I know you went out with him, I think
(37:28):
for a drink and then Chris and I took him
out for dinner up here in Brisbane, and you know,
so that's that's where this stems from. It's not just
random people helping people who have become my family and
my friends and people I trust and people who genuinely
want to want to help me find the answers.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
Yeah, and I think it goes to the fact that
your story resonates with so many people because it could
be any one of us. Yeah, this could happen to
what we now likely know has happened, could happen to
any family. And I noticed that a man who Allison
spotted at the inquiz turned out to be a man
(38:07):
named John who was sitting at the back, seemingly just
a random member of the public, but it turns out
he's deed to his ex husband. John'll be surprised that
he showed up.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Well, that's his neck of the woods. He lives there,
so you know, I guess kudo see him for showing
up as a family member or ex family member. But
I am a little miffed as to his comments that
he made to Allison.
Speaker 7 (38:32):
Yeah, I wasn't here that of all the insights he
could have offered us, that was probably the least relevant
and least complimentary. So yeah, obviously not a helpful. Was
the reason I raised it is because I just wanted
to check in and ask you if or how the
family now looks upon what has happened to your mum.
(38:53):
Given what we've all, that we've learned and all these
victims now, I mean a pretty clear picture is beginning
to emerge. How are your aunts and the wider family
now looking upon this case, this story.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
You'll have to ask m Bry because I have radio
silence still, so I think they're all I would be surmising,
but I would guess that they're probably all thinking what
we're all thinking, but they choose to hide behind the door,
which is pretty sad for me, Like I feel like,
especially listening to John's comments and you know the fact
(39:27):
that he rocks up and he's taking notes and you know,
his phone's going off in the court and whatever else,
I don't have a lot to say about him. I
have not seen him since I was probably ten, so
forty odd years ago, and he probably hasn't seen my
mum much in that time either, to be fair, so
I don't know that it has much to offer on
(39:48):
Mum's personality as a human when she went missing. However,
going back over how I feel about the family, and
to be honest, I actually feel like I've just seen
the Colosseum in real life myself, and I kind of
felt like I was the one who was thrown out
(40:08):
into the arena on my own. They shut the gates
firmly behind me, and even a bit of poking, you know,
with some of the comments that were made by people
in court saying I dogged my mom for money and
that you know, my mum didn't really like me, because
that's what my grandmother had told somebody. And you know,
I think Bron was very happy to sit there and
(40:30):
tell everybody who was listening that I don't blame Marian
for coming back. If it was me, I wouldn't have
come back. Who says that kind of thing when you
know I'm a victim here as well. I'm the daughter
of someone who's been missing for twenty six years, and
I honestly feel like I've been the one. They might
all sit back and go, oh, we're supporting, we you know,
we're thinking of you. Whatever stand with me, stands next
(40:54):
to me in the courtroom when I'm facing all those people,
I'm standing there with my twenty year old daughter, who
shouldn't have to do that. But I need some support
of some level. And it's Chris and the kids and
you guys who have supported me. I should have family
there standing there with me, and I haven't had that.
And I'm not going to sit here and have be
(41:15):
critical of them. People make their own choices and do
what they want to do. But that's how I feel.
I feel like I was thrown into the wolves and
I wasn't given any support or care or concern. Like
I lost my brother he died, I lost my mum,
she's missing, and it was just like we're not interested.
(41:36):
We would rather protect ourselves. We don't like the line
light whatever the story is that they want to share.
You know, your choice is. I'm not going to have
an opinion on it, but I feel like that's how
I feel in myself.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Yeah, if I can just say it for yourself, you
should have your family there for you one, especially now.
And what I would just observe about that is that
when we started, you know, your aunt's pretty much were
proffering the view that Marian had definitely decided just to
walk away and everyone should just put it behind them.
It was a long time ago. You're making a fuss,
(42:14):
You're causing a stir. It's unnecessary. We know what happened.
Just accept it and move on. Well, now we know
that that's and you always knew, and we very quickly
knew too. But that's not what happened at all. Of course,
it's not what happened. And now we're certain that's not
what happened. So in the face of that certainty, I
got to say that baffles me and probably a lot
(42:34):
of our listeners that your family aren't there, unified, completely
behind you, given the gantuan task you've undertaken and how
much you've achieved, and how much we've learned about what's
happened to this human being, your mum, their sister, you know.
And all I would say is that to be gracious,
you know, you never know what's going on in someone
else's life. Maybe there are things that are particular to
(42:57):
members of your family that we don't know about, or
that there's struggling with. I hope they're all okay, but
our concern continues to be you and finding out what
happened to me, Marian and for mine two dollars worth.
You absolutely deserve all the support from all of your family,
and of course you've got it from all of us
and everyone listening.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I know.
Speaker 7 (43:17):
Yeah, I just want to move on to what else
we learned in the hearings.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
Now.
Speaker 7 (43:22):
There's a couple of big kind of reveals in these
final hearings that I wasn't expecting. And at one point
Allison was actually called in by the police during the
hearing to make a statement and provide them a document.
It was a draft invitation to an engagement between Gelaine
du Bois de Lois and Frederic de Headry aka Rick Bloom.
(43:44):
How surprised were you to see that document emerge and
what does that tell us about what he was really doing?
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Well, I thought it was a bit of a slam dunc.
Actually I had a bit of a smile on my
face when he saw that, because I don't think he
was expecting that to appear. So kudo to Glaine for
keeping things like that, you know, because I have seen
it had scribble all over it, and you know, things
that my mum would typically do too. My mum is
(44:10):
one of those people who she'd have a birthday card
sitting on the bench, for example, and then she'd keep
it and she'd file it into her repidex that she
used to have with all the phone numbers in it,
and then she'd start scribbling. And I've got recipes from
people friends that she's obviously spoken on the phone or
something like that, and they're telling her what their Christmas
cake recipe was. So when I saw Gallaen's or I
(44:32):
saw the document that had the invitation on it and
she'd written a few little bits and pieces around, kind
of reminded me of mum. But yeah, slam dunk for
you know. When the question was asked, were you intending
to marry her? And he declined and said no, that
was a lie, and then that was produced. Yeah, I
hadn't seen that either, like everybody else, I was first
(44:56):
i'd heard about that or seen that. So yeah, good job.
Speaker 7 (45:00):
And it goes to we know that Rick has repeatedly lied.
He's admitted lying on there was occasion, so there's no
surprise there. But in particular with this the pattern of
promising multiple women a new life and marriage. Now your
mum claimed on the incoming passenger card that she was
(45:21):
married and now did home duties in Luxembourg. How much
does this bolster the notion that he was either trying
to or affecting some kind of union, civil union or
marriage with your mum, given that he's one hundred percent
tried it with Julaye nine years after your mum disappeared.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
I think Gulayne's evidence is extremely vital because I remember
when I first read her statement and I was just
absolutely spun out by things like the tea chess reference,
the liver function of reference, and I know Kim Burke
stood up and she said, you know, I object, your honor.
I don't think there's any connection between a liver function
(46:05):
scan and a liver function test and I'm sitting there going,
I think you're missing the point here. The point is
liver being the key word. Whether it's a scan, a test, whatever,
there's still a connection there between this woman and my
mum who had a relationship with this man. So I
was blown away by those things. I was also you know,
(46:27):
the comment that she made that he wanted her to
keep it a secret from her children. And you know,
I can completely agree that my mum if he'd said
that to her, she would have, you know, gone with
his wishes and gone not yet okay, And she probably
thought it was fanciful or what have you like he claimed.
(46:47):
And I can see knowing my mum's personality and looking
at those situations and I see I see Mom and
Galline in reverse. And the difference is Laying handed him
over the money allegedly.
Speaker 7 (47:03):
And your mum didn't.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
Well, she came back to Australia and then all the
money starts coming out of her bank account. So let's
say my opinion is that she didn't have the money
to give him overseas. Is this my thought process? And
the reaction was, oh, let's quickly go back to Australia
and grab that money. Maybe to buy school.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
Yeah, this is just my personal opinion of course.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
Yeah. Now, another big potential slip of the tongue came
on the final day when he was asked about the
Queensland driver's license in the name of Fernande Nocholis Remichel.
And here's here's the question from your lawyer, the lawyer
acting for you, Brad Smith. He said, at the time
(47:54):
she did that, in nineteen ninety seven, you had a
Queensland driver's license in the name of Fante Nocholis Remickel. Correct.
Rick Bloom says, yes, I had for a certain time
until it disappeared. It was stolen from me or I
lost it. I don't know because in the previous time
I can't remember if it's in Ballina or Byron Bay.
I repeat the question, please, he says Barron Bay and
(48:22):
he stops dead in his tracks. What was your reaction
when you heard that.
Speaker 5 (48:27):
I've had a lot of reactions, Brian like, yeah, it
was quite telling. Probably the best word I can use
to describe how I felt when I heard that.
Speaker 7 (48:39):
Well, I've checked. I can't find him mentioning Barron Bay ever,
or that mention on the stand, and I don't know
if it's a slip of the tongue or a mistake,
or he's revealed something crucial that he has been to
Barren Bay and he was mentioning it in the context
of Marion and his false identity at the time of
(49:02):
her disappearance. To me, it just seems like he's lowered
the he's lowered the shield just momentarily. We even mentioned that.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I think Adam Casselton said a similar thing, didn't he. Yeah,
at the end with the other comments that he started saying,
and yeah, it will unravel. It's just a matter of
time and patience, which I think I've had a lot of.
You know, I'm glad that we've been able to be
in this position and have the inquest and you know,
(49:38):
ask these questions and get some clarity.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Well.
Speaker 7 (49:41):
Then the other big thing sale is that all of
a sudden, towards the end of the second day of
his giving evidence, mister Bloom for the first time reveals
that he had a conversation with your mum in which
she declared that she wanted to abandon her family out
of nowhere. How stunned were you to hear that? My
head was spinning when I heard that.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Yeah, I was probably more angry actually at the first instance,
and then you know the second on the third day,
when Adam Cassilden started questioning him on that. Again, my
brain was just going a million miles an hour trying
to process what in actual fact he was talking about,
(50:23):
trying to work exactly that out. I mean, I have
my own opinions on it, but let us keep them
to myself for the time being. But yeah, it was
quite damning for him, I think.
Speaker 7 (50:34):
Well. Mister Cassildon pursued him the next day. He was
on the stand, this time appearing by video link, so
it wasn't in the court, but he remembered saying that,
and what he said was he answered, I myself believed
that she's still alive. That's what I believe. But I
don't know anything about what she did or whereabouts, nothing
at all. I can't tell you exactly when. But in
(50:57):
a conversation before she went to England, she said she
wants to separate from her family. She didn't want anything
to do with any member of her family. She was
a bit of a strange person. Now, the point was
then made by mister Calsidon that he never descended. He
is the word descended into that level of detail before
about Marion's motives, she vanished and why was he suddenly
(51:18):
volunteering at now? But what I found even more interesting
was the point made by Adam Cassiden, the counsel assisting
the coroner and your lawyer in the inquest Bradley Smith,
was that he had multiple opportunities to tell that to
police when he was first question in his first interview,
(51:38):
and multiple times during his now I think eight days
of giving evidence on the witness stand across three different
appearances over two years, he's never mentioned this once. And
this is like a this is motive. This is the
key explainer for why she supposedly did what he claims,
which is the banish of her own court. Yeah, I
(52:01):
mean in his neck of the woods exactly. I mean
for him to now reveal this at this late stage
without you conjecturing on his truthfulness or lack of what
does it actually say about where this case has gone?
I mean, if we hadn't got to this sixteenth day
of evidence in an inquest, we wouldn't have heard him
(52:22):
say that. I mean, what does it say about the
need to go through a process like this to even
scratch the surface of the truth.
Speaker 5 (52:31):
Well, I've been screaming it for a long time, right,
So since I met you, it was like, I need
to get it to an inquest because I need to
know that the police are doing their job properly and
looking at every ounce of information to uncover the truth
as to what has happened. People just don't go missing.
We've had the conversation before about suicide and things like that.
(52:53):
You don't hide your body. If you kill yourself, you're
there and someone has to come and take you away.
You know. You if you jump off a cliff, you
wash up on the beach, or part of you potentially
will at some point in time. So horrendous to think,
but that's just reality, right, And I have to process
those things. But we have been down this route one
(53:14):
hundred times as to what's actually going on and needing
to have a full investigation. I mean, if we wind
it right back, and I was only thinking about this yesterday,
we sort of seen. The focus now is all on
where we're at right this second. But you know, we
can't forget, and I don't want people to forget what
I dealt with the police when they were telling me
(53:34):
their hands were tired and they couldn't do the job
that they needed to do to find the answers here.
Sorry to say, but you know, we have found the
answers to a lot of these questions by doing big
deep dives and searches and walking into archives. We all
know too well that, you know, places like inter Poll.
I know myself. I've contacted them and they like, you know, oh,
(53:57):
they only to keep records for seven years. You've contacted
them that said the same thing. You don't go to
the agencies anymore. You have to go to archives to
get the information. That's where it's all stored and held.
They delete it off their system, but it still sits there.
So it's just a matter of doing the hard yards.
Like Joanie drove down to Camber on a holiday with
(54:19):
her husband and child and you know, she spent a
day at the archives in Canberra herself, and she said
it was just absolutely imperative that I did that because
without going in there physically and sitting down there and
going through and searching, you don't find anything. You've done
it as well. You've sat there and done MICROFISHI in Sydney.
You know, we've got people up in Ballina going to
(54:40):
the local library, finding you know, the phone number in
the paper, linking it to Ballina Coin Investments. So it's
the hard work and the deep dives that actually help
with this information and coming forward. And you know, I
work full time. I don't have all the time in
the world. I'm a mother of three. I'm busy, and
(55:01):
you know, this has consumed my life, particularly since we
started the podcast, you know, four and a half years ago.
It's I've had two jobs. This is one job, and
I've got my other job as well, and you know,
I'm grappling at every second to try and gain a
little bit more understanding, a little bit more information. And
you know, I'm happy to share it with everybody because
(55:23):
it's a story that's a live investigation still today twenty
six years later, and it's.
Speaker 7 (55:30):
No longer you know, just about your mum. It's about
a lot of women, and it's about the issue of
coercive control, and it's about the issue of hidden homicides.
I just want to read you what Adam Casslin was
saying to Rick on that about that revelation he made
that Marian had told him randomly just before she vanished
(55:50):
that she wanted to abandon her family. He says, could
the reason you disclosed that information, mister Bloom only yesterday
be because you know more about the disappearance of Marion
Barter than you have previous let on and you let
your guard down yesterday. No, I suggest to you that
you do know more than you are letting on about
the whereabouts of Maryon Barter. No, sir, No, I want
to suggest to you, mister Bloom, that you know more
(56:11):
about the whereabouts of Marying Barter than you have been
letting onto her honor throughout the course of her honor's
inquest Do you accept that? No, sir, No, I don't.
I don't know anything anything about Marion Barter. What's it
like hearing him repeatedly we asked these questions and just
give a flat denial.
Speaker 5 (56:31):
Well, I have learned sitting there watching a lot of
that conversation happen over time, and I've picked up on
certain things where mister Blum says certain things and certain
reactions to certain questions. So, not being an expert or
I kind of get the vibe. He has a certain
tone when he's answering a question in a certain way.
(56:51):
And that's become quite apparent to me. I'm sure people
like Laura Richard's would probably pick up on it as well,
And anybody who's been around and listened to these sorts
of things happen with other investigations before, you'd probably pick
up on it as well. So yeah, just it made
me angry because it was just an addition that he
(57:13):
could have openly come forward and said, oh, yes, I
knew Marion Barter. I had an affair with her back
in nineteen ninety seven, but she told me that she
wanted to leave her family. He could have done that.
What he did do was he was interviewed by police
and he denied knowing my mum at the very first instance.
(57:34):
He went home and had to think about it, and
then went back the next day and said, actually, I
did know her and I had an affair with her.
That always plays with my mind as well as to
why you just wouldn't be upfront and honest about it
in the very first instance.
Speaker 7 (57:48):
Well, that's the thing, Sal. He did a couple of
other things. He we know he invented and encountered with
your mom, supposedly in Switzerland and Liscern. He's initially said
in nineteen sixty eight sixty eight, when Marian's first husband,
Johnny Warren was there at a soccer training camp. So
we've confirmed that that encounter couldn't have happened. So he's
fabricated that. It appears he's fabricated that. And then of
(58:11):
course he did give reasons for your mum wanting to
go to England. He volunteered things like she was going
to buy a school. So for him not to mention
the overwhelming motive, believe me, until just a few days ago,
years later, to me, it just seems beyond belief.
Speaker 5 (58:31):
Yeah, well, and things like the school comment. None of
us well, I certainly hadn't heard anything about buying a school.
But since then, I've had a lady who has been
listening to the podcast and following, and her mom was
a good friend of my mom's, and my mum actually
wrote her a postcard as well, So they keep coming
out of the woodwork, which is amazing. And I'll tell
(58:51):
you all that Mum wrote to her and said something
along the lines of now this woman's a school teacher
as well, so understanding the why she might be bringing
this up with her. But she turned around and she said,
oh my god, did you know you can buy a
school over here? You only need don't quote because I
can't remember, but I think it says eighty thousand to
(59:12):
one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars exclamation exclamation exclamation
in a postcard from England to her teaching friend, which
for me that hadn't been in evidence or no one
had talked about that before. Mister Blumt told the world
that my mum had talked about buying a school over
in the UK, but she needed money to do that.
Speaker 7 (59:36):
Yeah, And then you know that's contemporaneous after an effect,
she left Australia.
Speaker 5 (59:41):
She was already overseas.
Speaker 7 (59:42):
How would he even know about that if he wasn't
with her?
Speaker 5 (59:47):
And the way it's written is like she's just found
out is the tone? Yeah, I mean, oh my gosh,
you know, did you know you could buy a school
over here?
Speaker 7 (59:58):
Because I think she.
Speaker 5 (59:58):
Probably would have had that comp with them before she left,
if it was something that was on her radar or
she had information or knowledge about. And to me, that
can lead potentially, if you think about it, to the
idea of having to come back to Australia to get
that eighty thousand dollars to pull it transfer and if
you look at the police report, it says it was
electronically transferred to an overseas account. That's what it says
(01:00:22):
on Graham Child's statement, the very first statement we've ever
had about mum's case on the Cops event, and it
says assuming to buy a new house with a new partner.
That's what it says on his statement. So it didn't
do the right thing back then to see where that
eighty thousand dollars went. And that's a very frustrating point
of this exercise for me, because that was transferred on
(01:00:44):
the fifteenth of October. I went to the police the
following week. That information was very readily available at that time,
and no one got the records and no one put
it on her file.
Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
Well I know. And also the assumption is kind of
breathtaking that you were just assumed money to buy a
house with a new partner. What's he basically.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Makes assumptions like that is my biggest gripe with its
whole entire cases. Do not assume, please still today, don't assume.
Speaker 7 (01:01:10):
Oh you think that actually has assumptions for a police
officer would be, well, someone stolen that money.
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
The first assumption would be that she's a single woman.
This isn't right. She's supposed to be overseas. Something's not
right here.
Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
Just to touch on what we're talking about motive. The
only other motive I can recall mister Bloom offering was
Janet Oldenburg wanting to start a career as a belly
dartzer across Europe, and that was supposedly to explain why
he went to travel to Europe with her. I mean,
as much as I'm not shocked anymore by what comes
out of mister Bloom's mouth, I'm just staggered at the
(01:01:44):
way his mind must work to come up with some
of this stuff. And on that point, you know, we
heard a lot of medical evidence. The coroner said, no, no,
you have to come into the court. I've looked at
the medical evidence. You're coming into the court, which he
did on the first day. The second day he was
allowed to appear by a video link, but he cognitively
was with it. That was my impression. He understood everything.
(01:02:05):
He was able to follow everything and offer more and
more answers. What was your impression of his physical performance?
Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Well, I hang on every word, because every word is
absolutely vital, and what the things that I picked up
on when he's sitting there, going, my brain doesn't work
like yours, mister Smith. He was very quick to be
able to tell you what airline he flew on back
in nineteen eighty five. So I'm very sorry, but that
does not compute with my brain. That someone who says
(01:02:35):
that they have problems remembering things, but then at this
drop of a hat, it's like saying where he stayed
he went to when he went to Japan. He was
just asked a very casual question, Oh, you went to
Japan on that trip. What hotel did you stay in?
Hotel Nico and Narta off, just bang, straight off. There
was no time delay for him to think about where
(01:02:56):
he knew straight off the bat, so buy it sorry.
Speaker 7 (01:03:02):
And to that point, he also was able to remember
things he said yesterday the day before when mister Cawston
ran him through his evidence, do you remember saying this?
He absolutely remembered. So he's remembering things that he's just
said that have just happened, and things that he said
or happened decades ago. So it's hard to see where
the cognitive impairment is at all. Even his starter, which
(01:03:23):
was very pronounced the start. As the day wore on
on that first day, at times it disappeared completely. I'm
not sure medically that's typical of a started coming and going,
but it certainly did with mister Bloom on the stand.
Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
Shaking like that, didn't I sort of saw that come
in a little bit, but definitely not what it was
a year ago when we saw him in court in
Byron and Balano. So I can't kind of work that out.
Speaker 7 (01:03:48):
The hearings are over. The court was adjourned on Friday
at around about an hour into proceedings, so now the
weight begins for the coroner's findings. So what what hopes
do you have for these findings?
Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
Oh? I would like to see justice served. I've got
to be careful because I'm still before the coroner, very
grateful for them all, hating to sit there and endure
what I also have endured in my family, and that
hasn't been easy, and it's been quite was listening to
(01:04:28):
evidence take you five minutes to answer a question that
is tough, and it's mentally tough, and I'm sure that's
why it was done. But yeah, there are. There are
certain things that are a slam dunk in this case,
not so much pertaining to my mum, but pertaining to
(01:04:50):
other things that can be acted upon, and I really
will seek justice is served for those things. That's what
I'm wanting to see done, and then at that point
we can move on to the next level. I think
this is a stage by stage process. It's not like
a level. This is bang, this is what's going to happen.
But I'm not stopping. So for those that think that,
(01:05:15):
you know, oh well, she got her answer and she
will go away. Now, I still don't know where my
mum is. And at the end of the day, that's
the wholesal purpose of this exercise. Yeah, she's safe well,
and you guys have not been able to prove that
to me. And I don't know where she is, so
still until such time as we have clarity on that
or have a better understanding on that, and yeah, I'm
(01:05:38):
still here.
Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
Yeah, and we're here with yoursel As you've always said
right from the start, someone somewhere knows something and you
know the answer is out there and we're going to
find it.
Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Yep, We're close. And thank you to everybody for still
coming forward with little bits of information like like that postcard.
You know, it just shows again and that my mum
was in contact and in touch with her friends and
family right up until she vanished. So to me, not
the makings of somebody who never wanted to see her
family and friends ever again.
Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
No calling you the day before, Yeah, no, definitely not
the actions of someone abandoned her daughter and her family.
So thanks so much for this catch up and hopefully
I'll see you soon and good luck for the findings
and what comes next. We'll be right there with.
Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
You, fingers crossed. It doesn't take too long, and we.
Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
Know all of you are crossing your fingers that Sally
will finally get justice and find out what happened to
her mother. Coming up a special treat for new episodes,
taking you across the world the.
Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
Local time here, I'll puck to you in the afternoon.
Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
We reveal incredible new information.
Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
But fair to say it is cost you around at
least three hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
It may be more.
Speaker 6 (01:07:07):
And we take you into uncharted territory.
Speaker 8 (01:07:10):
It was obviously through food, the mechanism for turning food
into poison. Pcing quite proud boastful emen.
Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
If you knew Marion or have any information about her
or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you. Our
website is seven news dot com dot au forward slash
news forward slash The Lady Vanishers and you can also
message us here. You can also send us at anonymous
tip at www dot The Lady Vanishers dot org. If
(01:07:56):
you like what you're hearing, don't forget to subscribe. Please
rate and review our series. It helps new listeners find us.
Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy, investigative journalist Brian Seymour,
writer and producer Sally Eels. Sound design Mark Wright, Graphics
(01:08:18):
Jason Blamford, translation and transcripts a Stelle Sanchez, Voice actors
or Willian Ritter, Veronique Durcell and the Brisbane Newsroom. The
theme and much of the music by Nicholas Gasparini at
the Darkpiano dot com. Thanks again to Alliance Franseille. This
(01:08:43):
is a seven News production.
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher,
friend missing for twenty six years.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, no sign that she was going to vanish.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
That's for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm not sure if it was intentional or there's something
more foul afoot.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive,
I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 5 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The lady vanishes, Episode fifty. I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 6 (01:15):
And I'm Brian Seymour. The coronial Inquest into the disappearance
of Marion Barter has completed public hearings, leaving millions of
people around the world waiting to learn what findings Coroner
Teresa O'Sullivan will hand down at a date yet to
be determined. None more so than Marian's daughter, Sally Laden
(01:41):
with whom we embarked on this quest for justice and truth.
Four and a half years ago. We caught up with
Sally and you will shortly hear her reactions to the
last few days of hearings and some fascinating new information. First,
(02:01):
we want to share something noticed by one of our listeners.
On the final day of hearings, Rick Bloom gave evidence
for about an hour via video here. Sally's lawyer, Bradley
Smith asked him a question about his banking in two
thousand and six.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
And did you open a safety deposit box at the
Commonwealth Bank six days later on the twenty eighth of
September two thousand and six.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I can't remember the date. At the common Worst Bank,
I had an envelope with because there were lots of like,
there were lots of people stating things, and I have
an envelope which with the title of the house, the
sojurary of my family and a few mementos, and an
(02:48):
envelope that was about twelve to fifteen centimeters wide and
probably twenty centimeters long. You can't put a lot of
things in. And because I had that envelope and later
on a security box or or whatever you call it
become available and I was given to me.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
We are particularly interested in this part of his answer.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And I haven't ended up which with the title of
the house.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
The problem is that Rick Bloom was in two thousand
and six living in rented accommodation. So what title to
property did he have to store in the safe deposit
envelope at the Commonwealth Bank. Perhaps this is yet another
slip revealing more uncomfortable truths about Rick Bloom. Shortly, I'll
(03:36):
talk to Sally Leyden about a few other slips mister
Bloom made while on the stand.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
But first, another member of the public has reached out
with an intriguing account of something that happened more than
twenty years ago, which may suggest that mister Blum's amorous
adventures lying to women about being single and looking for
romance whilst he was married may have continued uninterrupted through
(04:04):
the early two thousands, involving more women than the seven
we have so far identified. Hello, Hello, Lean there, it's
Alison Sandy.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
How are you. I'm good, How are you I'm well?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Thank you, thank you so much for allowing me to
call you. But I just thought you know, every little
bit helps with this thought.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, well, I mean it's just as I said, it's
just a very small thing with not a lot of
interaction on my part, But just the name really stood out,
and I just thought that given the time that had occurred,
there was bound toby other people that would have had
interactions at the same time, and I just thought, because
the name is so unusual, possible that it could in
(04:48):
fact be related. I was just trying to remember exactly
the timing, and it would have been I think around
middle of two thousand and two. And the reason that
I know that it would have been that time is
that I was not single for a very long time.
I was my current partner I had broken up, and
so you know, I was in Sydney, I didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Know a lot of people, and like a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
At that time, thought i'd try RSVP dating and you know,
I had a few dates. But the reason that this
sort of sticks out is that i'd with that whole service.
I don't know whether you remember it, but basically you
can reach out to people or people reach out to you,
and I had pretty much not reached out to anyone being,
(05:33):
you know, sort of old fashioned I'd waited for people
to contact me, but there was a profile on there
that was in hindsight like kind of immediately after what happened,
I realized it must have been fake. And it was
a really attractive French sounding person who I think they
identified as French as in really.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Attractive model kind of like that I never would.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Have reached out to because I thought, you know, it
was kind of way out of my league. But you know,
I probably had a few drinks one night and sort
of sent a message.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Now a message came back to me pretty quickly that.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Was something like that this particular person that I'd reached
out to was in a relationship or something like that,
but that.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
He had then or whoever it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was had reached out had then basically either linked me
with another profile or the contact had come from this
other profile on RSVP. And this name of the other
person was Bernard DuPont, much older than the person that
the profile that I'd reached out to, and had a
(06:41):
really kind of unusual kind of description of that.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
You might recall that Bernard DuPont is one of the
fifty plus aliases. Rick Blum has used this one in
the nineteen seventies. In episode thirty six, he told the
coroner that mister DuPont was a real person, the manager
at the Bank Nacionale de Paris in Sydney, which was
next door to the pension office he frequently visited, but
(07:11):
he could offer no explanation as to why he assumed
his identity. Now. Linda says in two thousand and two
she was dealing with someone using the same name.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
He was a French businessman, and.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
The photo looked a bit like a younger version of
one of the photos that you showed of Rick Bloom.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
I remember he had dark hair, but much older than me.
I was in my mid thirties.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
And the whole thing just instantly sounded to me like
it was a big scam, like there was you know,
that the first person probably wasn't even real, and the
second person, that Bernard DuPont, just sounded for fake. Like
I didn't even I don't think I even responded, because
I just thought the whole thing sounded just so weird,
(08:00):
you know, I just thought that the first one had
clearly been set as a scam for whoever this other
person was, And that.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Was the kind of entirety of my interaction with.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It, and just the reason that stuck in my mind
was just that it was so odd and yeah, so
that was kind of it.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I really appreciate you letting me know because it's it's
just obviously the tendacles.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
And you know, as I said, given the timing that
it was in the in the early two thousands, because
I was trying to think, this is the only other
time that I was sort of single in Sydney was
in nineteen ninety seven, but I absolutely believed that it
was on RSVP, which wasn't until a bit later in
the early two thousands, So I'm pretty sure that it was.
(08:50):
If it wasn't two thousand and two, it would have
been sort of late two thousand and one. But I'm
pretty sure it was two thousand and two, and I
just remember that profile then kind of was popping up
all the time, so that that profile was active for
a long time on rs VP, or at least the
time that I was that I was viewing RSVP backing
(09:11):
in that year. So you know, there's bound to be
other people who would have had contact with that particular
profile at that time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Absolutely there would have been and I know it's hard
for people to come out, and we've actually been really
grateful to the people that have, including you, even though
you know it's just to tell us this, because it's
just it's so important, every little bit, and we always
say that no, nothing is too minor, but this is
this is quite significant anyway because it shows, you know,
(09:43):
even the dating apps as well.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah. Now, and as I said, I forgot kind of
failing new to you to your podcast.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It was someone that I work with.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Very recently said I used to listen to this and
then when I was going through all the alienses, it just.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Kind of jumped out and going, I remember that name.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's that's weird. So and look, it might be completely
unrelated as well, but it might also be that I
just remember it because it was an unusual and good
French thing, and that it just seemed instantly to me
like it was there was something odd about it that
it was not genuine.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
It sounds like Linda may have had a lucky escape.
We are in our fifth year of investigating Marian's disappearance,
and we are still finding new clues and information as
well as creating an ever expanding picture of who Marian
was now Another friend of Marian's has agreed to talk
(10:42):
with us. Kerry Hubal was a childhood friend, and like Marian,
she too became a teacher. She has fond recollections of
Marian Wilson as she first knew her, and some strong
opinions about what has happened to her. Okay, Alison, Sandy,
how are you.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
I'm pretty good. How are you?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I'm well? I mean, like I think the last time
we actually spoke in person was the first when the
inquest started two years ago into Marion Barta. Do you
remember that in Sydney?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes, I do so, I certainly do so.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I mean, this must be really remarkable for you can
first of all, I guess, because obviously our listeners will
want to know how you actually know Marian. Can you
can you tell us.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
About Yes, we went to the same school for taking Hi,
we're in the same year. She was in the AH
stream and I was in the B stream. But we
became friends, and she had several friends, not just me,
And eventually I went to stay with my father who
(11:53):
lived somewhere else, and she came with me on holidays
and we became very firm friends. For a while there
so it is.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Can you tell me what you remember about Marian because
I mean, we've been doing this now for five years
and a lot of people have been listening. But sometimes
people forget. I mean they you know, they see her
picture and everything, but you know, she was a living,
breathing person with a personality. Can you tell me what
you remember about her?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yes, Marian, Well, I would never have called her shy,
but I would call her had She had a reserve
about her. I read somewhere that people thought she was naive.
She was never naive as a young person. She was reserved.
She was friendly. The boys certainly loved Mary, and she
(12:46):
was a very attractive girl. I wouldn't have called her intellectual,
but I would have called her very smart, very intelligent.
And it was just this reserve about her. She was
able to well, would you say she was able to
live her life without other people intruding upon it. I
(13:06):
would have said. We went to stay with my father
and we shared a room. We went out together, we
went to the beach. The boys loved her. I was
sort of tinkering after boys, but she didn't particularly want to,
but they loved her. Might have been that cool exterior
that she had. Yeah, we discovered lipsticks together. We bought
(13:28):
matching outfits in different colors. When we went away. She
was that's as I said, she was going through the
a stream, which when she was quite smart.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
When you say matching outfits, I'm curious because this had
been the sixties, right, what do you remember what the
outfits were and.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Might have been the late fifties ideas I can remember
we had. We both were were sure. I mean, things
weren't as stylised then as they are now. We bought
matching sun hats, great big sub hats, huge sun's. In fact,
she ordered them for us. One was she had blue,
I had yellow. We had shorts that were similar. We
(14:09):
were different body shapes, so mine didn't look quite as
good on me as they did on her. I was
actually told by my stepmother Neves to wear them again,
but she looked great in them. What else we had
matching lipsticks that we went and bought together, and things
like that.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So it was a fun, easy going, you know, just
just a really enjoyable time. I suppose quite innocent. I
suppose in.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
The oh, very definitely, yes, I mean we were. She's
three months older than me, you know, three months is
a lot more when you're young than when you reached
this age, so that I did see Marian as perhaps
a bit of a slightly older than me and therefore
(14:53):
knew more than me. But yeah, no, no, she was
great to be with. We got along very well for what.
We separated in different directions a little bit later in
high school because although we stay friends, I left and
she continued on and then went on to Balmain Teachers
(15:17):
College to be a study to study.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As a teacher, did the teaching as well.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I am a teacher, but I didn't do teaching. Then
I left school early. I left school at fifteen. I
hated school. I just hated it so much. I just
wanted to get away because I learned learned later the
value of school and went back and did my HSC.
But at the time I didn't like school at all.
Marion loved it, and I hope she was very popular.
(15:45):
A lot of people liked Marian.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
She always. I mean, when I look at the photo,
she was so sophisticated, I wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, I guess that's that's how you would interpret I
never saw her as sophisticated. I saw her as fairly
self contained.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Didn't you need other people's approval necessarily, Is that what
you're trying to mean?
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Or to a large extent, I mean, I remember well,
whilst we were on holidays up at Kendall, we walked
down the street and the boys would all call out
to Marian and she just ignored them. And I furiously
waved because I was young and you know, unaware of
(16:25):
the games people play, and I'd wave and they'd all
turn away. Then they'd call out to Marian again, and
she used to say to me, just ignore, just ignore them.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So around this time, you would have been maybe thirteen.
I was fourteen, fourteen, so at that stage not quite
having having boyfriends, but just you know, I guess getting
their attention.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Now. I think Maryon had a few admirers. There's no
doubt there's a touch of boys that really liked Marian.
I was a lot more gauky than than Marian. She was.
She had a nice body and nice, lovely tan skin,
great smile, but she had a few guys that she'd
(17:16):
had her eye on at different times. But certainly we
weren't pursuing any serious relationships or anything like that at
this point. We did go out with guys together. We
went out ass but going to the movies and back
home again. No, I have no idea what I thought.
(17:36):
I didn'tink I was watching all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was just the time when, yes, when, okay, So
when you make out in the theaters of times.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Exactly, and you'd start begging out and the front row
would start whistling and carrying on. So to stop.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Oh wow, that sounds like exciting times. So when did
you find out about what had happened that Marian was missing?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Look, I have no I a lot of thought on
Marian through the years and wondered what she was doing.
I knew she married Johnny Warren because she used to
come in and tell me to where I was working.
She'd come in on her way to I think it
was the James station and tell me what was going on.
(18:26):
And she told me once she's getting married on Saturday,
And I said, I knew she was dating Johnny Warren
and I said, oh great. She came in the following
week and she said we didn't get married, And I
said what happened? And she said, I changed my mind,
but we are going to get married. We'll get We
just put it off for a while I need to
think about things. That's what she told me. I didn't
(18:49):
know how true it was. I didn't really wasn't that concerned.
We had another mutual friend that I was spending more
time with, Tammy, and Tammy was seeing much more Marian
than I was at the time I heard she got married.
(19:10):
I think she told me she got married, and really
we then slipped out of the picture. We just didn't
see each other anymore. I realized once I discovered that
Marian was missing, that she had moved at some point
to Queensland, and I didn't know. I do remember that
she had she was one of four girls, and that
(19:32):
a mother and father lived not far from where I did.
So I often wondered, because you know, we had been
good friends, but friends move on. So how did I discover?
Probably through your podcasts. I had heard about them, and
then I saw a picture. I thought, that's my friend
Marian Wilson. So I think I contacted you and said
(19:57):
I know her, but she's not Marian Barter, She's Marian Wilson.
And you said Marion Bart's her last married name, and
that's why it all came to my attention.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
So reading about her and what happened in her life
and everything. You know, I guess she had three husbands,
and then I guess the latest with with her having
changed her name and disappeared. I mean, what were you thinking?
Was this something? Was this the Marian that you remembered
or No.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
No, I would never have called a secretive. I would
have called a reserve. But I would never have called
a secretive when she was younger. Anyway, who knows what
life tosses you in it between. No, I, I was
quite shocked. Honesty was an important thing for Marian. Do
(20:49):
you remember we've discussed it. We talked about another person's
behavior and had discussed honesty and it was very important
to her. So I read this and I was quite surprised.
She wasn't consistent with what I knew. She was very
(21:09):
the reserved. She was very night to put it nicely
up front, but not nasty. She would tell you if
what you did concerned her.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
One of the things that we I mean you obviously,
and I was a long time between knowing her, but
you know, the foundations are set in a person by
the time they're a teenager. If she had found out
that she was being taken for a ride, or that
someone was deceiving her and that they were already married.
Do you think she's the sort of person that would
confront them about it.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Eventually? Yes, yes I do. She would never be aggressive
about it. She was not an aggressive person, but I
do think she would confront them. I think she'd think
about it first. She wouldn't, She's not feel for a type.
I would have also thought she'd have discussed it with
(22:06):
somebody else first. Maybe she didn't have that opportunity. Yes,
I do believe she would have confronted them, in believing,
you know, one had to be fair and honest about
these things.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Well, particularly since she obviously had a firm belief about honesty.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Absolutely. Look, I read quite a bit of the comments
that particularly her daughter and one of her former husbands made,
and there were clearly changes in her personality, the secretiveness. Look,
I remember when we're we're probably about fifteen, she went
(22:48):
to the movies with a guard, but instead of going
to the movies, they drove down this two I think
with Engerdein or heath Coat or something like that, and
she told me how they shot in the current pasted
as she put it, which meant that she had a
nexting session with a guy and then came home and
told her parents that it was a lovely movie. Now,
(23:12):
that doesn't dely the fact that I think she's an
honest person. I think she was just covering her tracks
because she wasn't supposed to be out with the boy
other than at the movies. We've all done that, and
I wouldn't consider most people who do that kind of
behavior are dishonest at all, although the action itself might
be Yeah, Look, I just think she would have tried
(23:36):
to deal with it, that's for sure, But that she
went so far as to change her name is what
I find remarkable. That was quite a surprise to me.
That wasn't consistent with how I knew married at all.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
The inquest is now over and the coroner has to
deliver her findings, which are most likely going to be
consistent with the fact that she's no longer alive and
that her disappearance.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I don't think she is either. I don't know what happened,
but one can only speculate. But she feels to me
like she's not around.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
So I mean, Marian isn't someone who necessarily would you
would have thought would give up on life.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh no, that's right.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
She would not.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
If anything happened to her, she would put up a
good fight.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
So I guess with all of this, you know, just
you know, being for the past five years, been lingering
and being quite present in the media as well. How
do you feel now, I guess looking back at it all.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh, how do I feel? As it's definitely for our
play as far as I'm concerned, Marian's not the type
that would take her own life through being badly treated
or dishonestly treated. I felt that she possibly would have
gone to the police. I think she would have used
(25:11):
whatever access to support. The part that I find so
interesting is the timing of purportedly when she was calling
from England yet being in Australia at a time that
would never have got her back to Australia in time.
That to me, is where I believe a lot of
(25:35):
the dilemma really starts in terms of them being missing.
And that's where I think. I don't know, I don't
know what the police are doing, but I would say
that's really the area that tells where the story is,
what's happened to her. It's just you know, she wasn't
(25:56):
a liar, or clearly she wasn't being totally up either.
She had reasons, I don't know what they were.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I think the thing though, is, I mean everyone by
this age has been in love.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
If she was in love or thought she was in love,
you know, maybe she would have been coerced. I mean
we look at all these other women who were coerced
to do things, yes, certain way.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
Oh, I'd say there's an element of that. Obviously, there's
clearly someone has attempted to coerce her. Undoubtedly she's form
at least initially for it. I mean for these people
who bet who were coerced none, so what should call stupid?
And neither is Marion. So whoever would have coerced her
(26:47):
would have been very skilled at it. I can see
her realizing at some point, maybe a bit too late,
but realizing and trying to find a way out and
perhaps met with an unfortunate end along the way.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Sally will be listening to this as well. Is there
anything you'd like to tell you know, is a message
you have a message for Sally?
Speaker 7 (27:12):
That?
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, Sally. She was a great woman and I really
wish all the best to you, Sally, Just to know
that things didn't go the way she intended them to, clearly,
And I'm sure wherever she is or whatever is happening
to her now, she'd love to be with you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm sure Marian would be proud of all
the efforts that Sally has made too, because oh absolutely,
she's obviously like Marion in the sense that you know,
she's a fighter. Marion would have done the same thing.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I'm sure, Yes, yes, I think I actually think Sally
is more of a fighter than Marion. And I think Sally,
by the way, must seems to have Marian's brains, because
Marian was very intelligent. I think it was Sally that
said Marian was naive. I never found her naive, but
I I, well, who are to judge at that age.
(28:13):
I found her to be not quick off the mark
with making decisions, usually small, thoughtful about them, and perhaps
that may have slowed down a little bit on a bit.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
The same way, she seemed very romantic, like you know,
I think did said she loved to be loved, don't
we all?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes, clearly that from her history that would show she
was loved at school. The boys loved her. She was
the one that was managed to reserve you know, to
kept them all at arms links, except the occasional one
or two that you know, she fondly recalled. Her sisters
(28:57):
would know her better. She had a very good relationship
with her mother. I remember that, a very loving family.
I know. I met the sisters. I went there for
lunch several times with Marion to their house. It was
a very loving, supportive family. I guess she's grown up
(29:19):
around people who care and wanted to continue with that experience.
It's not consistent. She's not as though she was lacking
in love and concern in her life. She had a
lot of people around her that loved and cared for
her growing up.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I guess the only thing I can think of is
the adoration of men. I mean, obviously, as you get
older it probably subsides a bit, but she she always
obviously enjoyed that, and so I think that's what's come
to play in this scenario where she thought that it
was the real deal and that would have been.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
The other thing about it is that I didn't see her.
I saw her as keeping men at her at her
arms distance, but you know, still having a little you
might say, not around with one or two. Usually the
guy that was considered the most popular around most of
the women. They liked her, she liked them, but she
(30:20):
move on and didn't keep it as a long time,
steady relationship. But her behavior as a younger woman is
not consistent with someone that needs a man around all
the time. So I wouldn't like to speculate on how
(30:43):
that happened. I mean, her sisters would know that better
than me.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah. So, and you know, as you said, you went
back to do teaching everything and made a very successful
life of it. And I'm glad that you did go
back to school.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I went back and did the hsc AT and then
went to went to university and put myself through linguistics.
Oh wow, and then the teaching. I've been a feminist
activist for a long time and though i've you might say,
retired from it, I've never lost the commitment.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Well, you know, so women that are coming together in
there so much. I mean, obviously we've got men as well,
but the overwhelming like the victims of this man like,
it's just been a real solidarity movement.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Oh yeah. It was good to read that they came
out because a lot of women would not be will
put it like this, there's a certain shame one would feel,
but having been a victim, it's it's enormously strong of
these women to come out and give their story. I
just can't but admire them for what they've they're doing now,
(31:51):
and particularly as they're they're older, they're so much older
that all they want now is a quiet life probably
and to be left alone. But they've come out out
to find out what they can contribute to make this
a better situation.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It's amazing, I know, isn't it. It's just really it's
so wonderful to be a part of and you're alone
to carry. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Oh thanks thanks for calling me and talking to me,
and I hope to see you soon.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Absolutely, thank you. Carry keep in touch for you, Lesa
bye bye.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
Thank you Carrie for sharing with us your memories and
insights into one of the women at the heart of
this story, the other, of course being her daughter Sally.
I live in Sydney, Sally lives in Brisbane, so we
don't get to catch up in person very often, but
now it's time to check in with sal Via Zoom.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Hi Sale, Hello, how are you good?
Speaker 7 (32:57):
Good? Good to hear you boys.
Speaker 6 (33:00):
Final three days of hearings at the inquest marked sixteen
days of evidence plus one day of submissions. That has,
over the past two and a half years turned this
investigation on its head. Sally has had time to reflect
on what we've just heard.
Speaker 7 (33:18):
Did you have a chance to tune into the inquest
last week?
Speaker 5 (33:21):
Yep, watched the lot.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
What was your reaction to those three extra days the
public hearings.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
I think it was really important that those women had
a chance to voice their story to everybody. You know,
we're in a position where, yet again we've had women
who have gone to the police and noted their concerns
and seemingly they were just given the generic thanks for
(33:49):
that information and sent on their way. Little did they
know that, you know, they weren't the only ones. So
I'm really happy that by doing all of this, we've
given them an opportunity to actually have their voices heard
as well. And you know, really grateful to you know,
both of them, because they're elderly, you know, I mean,
(34:10):
Gislaine stayed up until over one am to give her
evidence and you know, God bless Andre, you know, sharp
as attack, as opposed to what we were led to believe.
So you know, I'm eternally grateful that they've given their
voice because silence is my enemy and I need people
(34:32):
to speak up and you know, help me find out
what's happened to my mum. So them doing that is
a step forward in potentially understanding a little bit more.
Speaker 7 (34:42):
Yeah, and you're right that the first point you made,
Julane did go to the police in Belgium. Maybe if
they'd acted or identified this guy contacted the authorities here,
he wouldn't have been able to do what he did
to Andrea and the other victim later.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Well, that's been the the key grind for me, I
think is you know, going right the way back and
finding what we found and noting documentation back in the
seventies and eighties where police and authorities who should be
looking after that side of things made a note that
it should be done and then put it in the
(35:20):
wrong file and then obviously got lost. And you know,
from where I sit, if that had actually transpired and
there'd been action taken back then Rick Blum wouldn't have
met my mum, that's for certain. So that puts us
in a whole different ballgame.
Speaker 7 (35:36):
I noticed that again, Christina flew out all the way
from England to this more Wales to be there to
support you and to be there for this inquest the
second you've done that. I mean, how would you describe
the dedication that Christine and more broadly that the web
slus have put into this investigation your story.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
Yeah, unbelieve. I have no words really except thank you
from the bottom of my heart, because these people care.
They care about my mum for like I think, first
and foremost, and then they care about me, and they
care about my children, who are you know, the grandchildren
of my missing mum. And you know, I think we've
(36:22):
all been blown away by the reaction and the support
that we've gained from the supporters and keeping the story
alive and you know, and that to me again, I
always say it is power of the people. Without them
and without their push and without their support, we might
not have got anywhere. You know. It's amazing what happens
(36:46):
when there's a portion and a shove. And unfortunately I've
been in a position where I've had to do that
to get the answers, so not something I've liked doing,
but you know, having all those people supporting, you know,
and Christine has been there with me from the start
of the podcast. And you know we've we've met numerous
(37:07):
times and I caught up with her in Sydney on
the weekend, took her out for breakfast and just you know,
how to be hug and you know, she loves it
over here and she loves coming back and hanging out
with us. So you know, we've become like family. You know,
her husband came over for work a few months ago
and I know you went out with him, I think
(37:28):
for a drink and then Chris and I took him
out for dinner up here in Brisbane, and you know,
so that's that's where this stems from. It's not just
random people helping people who have become my family and
my friends and people I trust and people who genuinely
want to want to help me find the answers.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
Yeah, and I think it goes to the fact that
your story resonates with so many people because it could
be any one of us. Yeah, this could happen to
what we now likely know has happened, could happen to
any family. And I noticed that a man who Allison
spotted at the inquiz turned out to be a man
(38:07):
named John who was sitting at the back, seemingly just
a random member of the public, but it turns out
he's deed to his ex husband. John'll be surprised that
he showed up.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Well, that's his neck of the woods. He lives there,
so you know, I guess kudo see him for showing
up as a family member or ex family member. But
I am a little miffed as to his comments that
he made to Allison.
Speaker 7 (38:32):
Yeah, I wasn't here that of all the insights he
could have offered us, that was probably the least relevant
and least complimentary. So yeah, obviously not a helpful. Was
the reason I raised it is because I just wanted
to check in and ask you if or how the
family now looks upon what has happened to your mum.
(38:53):
Given what we've all, that we've learned and all these
victims now, I mean a pretty clear picture is beginning
to emerge. How are your aunts and the wider family
now looking upon this case, this story.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
You'll have to ask m Bry because I have radio
silence still, so I think they're all I would be surmising,
but I would guess that they're probably all thinking what
we're all thinking, but they choose to hide behind the door,
which is pretty sad for me, Like I feel like,
especially listening to John's comments and you know the fact
(39:27):
that he rocks up and he's taking notes and you know,
his phone's going off in the court and whatever else,
I don't have a lot to say about him. I
have not seen him since I was probably ten, so
forty odd years ago, and he probably hasn't seen my
mum much in that time either, to be fair, so
I don't know that it has much to offer on
(39:48):
Mum's personality as a human when she went missing. However,
going back over how I feel about the family, and
to be honest, I actually feel like I've just seen
the Colosseum in real life myself, and I kind of
felt like I was the one who was thrown out
(40:08):
into the arena on my own. They shut the gates
firmly behind me, and even a bit of poking, you know,
with some of the comments that were made by people
in court saying I dogged my mom for money and
that you know, my mum didn't really like me, because
that's what my grandmother had told somebody. And you know,
I think Bron was very happy to sit there and
(40:30):
tell everybody who was listening that I don't blame Marian
for coming back. If it was me, I wouldn't have
come back. Who says that kind of thing when you
know I'm a victim here as well. I'm the daughter
of someone who's been missing for twenty six years, and
I honestly feel like I've been the one. They might
all sit back and go, oh, we're supporting, we you know,
we're thinking of you. Whatever stand with me, stands next
(40:54):
to me in the courtroom when I'm facing all those people,
I'm standing there with my twenty year old daughter, who
shouldn't have to do that. But I need some support
of some level. And it's Chris and the kids and
you guys who have supported me. I should have family
there standing there with me, and I haven't had that.
And I'm not going to sit here and have be
(41:15):
critical of them. People make their own choices and do
what they want to do. But that's how I feel.
I feel like I was thrown into the wolves and
I wasn't given any support or care or concern. Like
I lost my brother he died, I lost my mum,
she's missing, and it was just like we're not interested.
(41:36):
We would rather protect ourselves. We don't like the line
light whatever the story is that they want to share.
You know, your choice is. I'm not going to have
an opinion on it, but I feel like that's how
I feel in myself.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Yeah, if I can just say it for yourself, you
should have your family there for you one, especially now.
And what I would just observe about that is that
when we started, you know, your aunt's pretty much were
proffering the view that Marian had definitely decided just to
walk away and everyone should just put it behind them.
It was a long time ago. You're making a fuss,
(42:14):
You're causing a stir. It's unnecessary. We know what happened.
Just accept it and move on. Well, now we know
that that's and you always knew, and we very quickly
knew too. But that's not what happened at all. Of course,
it's not what happened. And now we're certain that's not
what happened. So in the face of that certainty, I
got to say that baffles me and probably a lot
(42:34):
of our listeners that your family aren't there, unified, completely
behind you, given the gantuan task you've undertaken and how
much you've achieved, and how much we've learned about what's
happened to this human being, your mum, their sister, you know.
And all I would say is that to be gracious,
you know, you never know what's going on in someone
else's life. Maybe there are things that are particular to
(42:57):
members of your family that we don't know about, or
that there's struggling with. I hope they're all okay, but
our concern continues to be you and finding out what
happened to me, Marian and for mine two dollars worth.
You absolutely deserve all the support from all of your family,
and of course you've got it from all of us
and everyone listening.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
I know.
Speaker 7 (43:17):
Yeah, I just want to move on to what else
we learned in the hearings.
Speaker 5 (43:21):
Now.
Speaker 7 (43:22):
There's a couple of big kind of reveals in these
final hearings that I wasn't expecting. And at one point
Allison was actually called in by the police during the
hearing to make a statement and provide them a document.
It was a draft invitation to an engagement between Gelaine
du Bois de Lois and Frederic de Headry aka Rick Bloom.
(43:44):
How surprised were you to see that document emerge and
what does that tell us about what he was really doing?
Speaker 5 (43:50):
Well, I thought it was a bit of a slam dunc.
Actually I had a bit of a smile on my
face when he saw that, because I don't think he
was expecting that to appear. So kudo to Glaine for
keeping things like that, you know, because I have seen
it had scribble all over it, and you know, things
that my mum would typically do too. My mum is
(44:10):
one of those people who she'd have a birthday card
sitting on the bench, for example, and then she'd keep
it and she'd file it into her repidex that she
used to have with all the phone numbers in it,
and then she'd start scribbling. And I've got recipes from
people friends that she's obviously spoken on the phone or
something like that, and they're telling her what their Christmas
cake recipe was. So when I saw Gallaen's or I
(44:32):
saw the document that had the invitation on it and
she'd written a few little bits and pieces around, kind
of reminded me of mum. But yeah, slam dunk for
you know. When the question was asked, were you intending
to marry her? And he declined and said no, that
was a lie, and then that was produced. Yeah, I
hadn't seen that either, like everybody else, I was first
(44:56):
i'd heard about that or seen that. So yeah, good job.
Speaker 7 (45:00):
And it goes to we know that Rick has repeatedly lied.
He's admitted lying on there was occasion, so there's no
surprise there. But in particular with this the pattern of
promising multiple women a new life and marriage. Now your
mum claimed on the incoming passenger card that she was
(45:21):
married and now did home duties in Luxembourg. How much
does this bolster the notion that he was either trying
to or affecting some kind of union, civil union or
marriage with your mum, given that he's one hundred percent
tried it with Julaye nine years after your mum disappeared.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
I think Gulayne's evidence is extremely vital because I remember
when I first read her statement and I was just
absolutely spun out by things like the tea chess reference,
the liver function of reference, and I know Kim Burke
stood up and she said, you know, I object, your honor.
I don't think there's any connection between a liver function
(46:05):
scan and a liver function test and I'm sitting there going,
I think you're missing the point here. The point is
liver being the key word. Whether it's a scan, a test, whatever,
there's still a connection there between this woman and my
mum who had a relationship with this man. So I
was blown away by those things. I was also you know,
(46:27):
the comment that she made that he wanted her to
keep it a secret from her children. And you know,
I can completely agree that my mum if he'd said
that to her, she would have, you know, gone with
his wishes and gone not yet okay, And she probably
thought it was fanciful or what have you like he claimed.
(46:47):
And I can see knowing my mum's personality and looking
at those situations and I see I see Mom and
Galline in reverse. And the difference is Laying handed him
over the money allegedly.
Speaker 7 (47:03):
And your mum didn't.
Speaker 5 (47:05):
Well, she came back to Australia and then all the
money starts coming out of her bank account. So let's
say my opinion is that she didn't have the money
to give him overseas. Is this my thought process? And
the reaction was, oh, let's quickly go back to Australia
and grab that money. Maybe to buy school.
Speaker 7 (47:27):
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
Yeah, this is just my personal opinion of course.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
Yeah. Now, another big potential slip of the tongue came
on the final day when he was asked about the
Queensland driver's license in the name of Fernande Nocholis Remichel.
And here's here's the question from your lawyer, the lawyer
acting for you, Brad Smith. He said, at the time
(47:54):
she did that, in nineteen ninety seven, you had a
Queensland driver's license in the name of Fante Nocholis Remickel. Correct.
Rick Bloom says, yes, I had for a certain time
until it disappeared. It was stolen from me or I
lost it. I don't know because in the previous time
I can't remember if it's in Ballina or Byron Bay.
I repeat the question, please, he says Barron Bay and
(48:22):
he stops dead in his tracks. What was your reaction
when you heard that.
Speaker 5 (48:27):
I've had a lot of reactions, Brian like, yeah, it
was quite telling. Probably the best word I can use
to describe how I felt when I heard that.
Speaker 7 (48:39):
Well, I've checked. I can't find him mentioning Barron Bay ever,
or that mention on the stand, and I don't know
if it's a slip of the tongue or a mistake,
or he's revealed something crucial that he has been to
Barren Bay and he was mentioning it in the context
of Marion and his false identity at the time of
(49:02):
her disappearance. To me, it just seems like he's lowered
the he's lowered the shield just momentarily. We even mentioned that.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I think Adam Casselton said a similar thing, didn't he. Yeah,
at the end with the other comments that he started saying,
and yeah, it will unravel. It's just a matter of
time and patience, which I think I've had a lot of.
You know, I'm glad that we've been able to be
in this position and have the inquest and you know,
(49:38):
ask these questions and get some clarity.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Well.
Speaker 7 (49:41):
Then the other big thing sale is that all of
a sudden, towards the end of the second day of
his giving evidence, mister Bloom for the first time reveals
that he had a conversation with your mum in which
she declared that she wanted to abandon her family out
of nowhere. How stunned were you to hear that? My
head was spinning when I heard that.
Speaker 5 (50:02):
Yeah, I was probably more angry actually at the first instance,
and then you know the second on the third day,
when Adam Cassilden started questioning him on that. Again, my
brain was just going a million miles an hour trying
to process what in actual fact he was talking about,
(50:23):
trying to work exactly that out. I mean, I have
my own opinions on it, but let us keep them
to myself for the time being. But yeah, it was
quite damning for him, I think.
Speaker 7 (50:34):
Well. Mister Cassildon pursued him the next day. He was
on the stand, this time appearing by video link, so
it wasn't in the court, but he remembered saying that,
and what he said was he answered, I myself believed
that she's still alive. That's what I believe. But I
don't know anything about what she did or whereabouts, nothing
at all. I can't tell you exactly when. But in
(50:57):
a conversation before she went to England, she said she
wants to separate from her family. She didn't want anything
to do with any member of her family. She was
a bit of a strange person. Now, the point was
then made by mister Calsidon that he never descended. He
is the word descended into that level of detail before
about Marion's motives, she vanished and why was he suddenly
(51:18):
volunteering at now? But what I found even more interesting
was the point made by Adam Cassiden, the counsel assisting
the coroner and your lawyer in the inquest Bradley Smith,
was that he had multiple opportunities to tell that to
police when he was first question in his first interview,
(51:38):
and multiple times during his now I think eight days
of giving evidence on the witness stand across three different
appearances over two years, he's never mentioned this once. And
this is like a this is motive. This is the
key explainer for why she supposedly did what he claims,
which is the banish of her own court. Yeah, I
(52:01):
mean in his neck of the woods exactly. I mean
for him to now reveal this at this late stage
without you conjecturing on his truthfulness or lack of what
does it actually say about where this case has gone?
I mean, if we hadn't got to this sixteenth day
of evidence in an inquest, we wouldn't have heard him
(52:22):
say that. I mean, what does it say about the
need to go through a process like this to even
scratch the surface of the truth.
Speaker 5 (52:31):
Well, I've been screaming it for a long time, right,
So since I met you, it was like, I need
to get it to an inquest because I need to
know that the police are doing their job properly and
looking at every ounce of information to uncover the truth
as to what has happened. People just don't go missing.
We've had the conversation before about suicide and things like that.
(52:53):
You don't hide your body. If you kill yourself, you're
there and someone has to come and take you away.
You know. You if you jump off a cliff, you
wash up on the beach, or part of you potentially
will at some point in time. So horrendous to think,
but that's just reality, right, And I have to process
those things. But we have been down this route one
(53:14):
hundred times as to what's actually going on and needing
to have a full investigation. I mean, if we wind
it right back, and I was only thinking about this yesterday,
we sort of seen. The focus now is all on
where we're at right this second. But you know, we
can't forget, and I don't want people to forget what
I dealt with the police when they were telling me
(53:34):
their hands were tired and they couldn't do the job
that they needed to do to find the answers here.
Sorry to say, but you know, we have found the
answers to a lot of these questions by doing big
deep dives and searches and walking into archives. We all
know too well that, you know, places like inter Poll.
I know myself. I've contacted them and they like, you know, oh,
(53:57):
they only to keep records for seven years. You've contacted
them that said the same thing. You don't go to
the agencies anymore. You have to go to archives to
get the information. That's where it's all stored and held.
They delete it off their system, but it still sits there.
So it's just a matter of doing the hard yards.
Like Joanie drove down to Camber on a holiday with
(54:19):
her husband and child and you know, she spent a
day at the archives in Canberra herself, and she said
it was just absolutely imperative that I did that because
without going in there physically and sitting down there and
going through and searching, you don't find anything. You've done
it as well. You've sat there and done MICROFISHI in Sydney.
You know, we've got people up in Ballina going to
(54:40):
the local library, finding you know, the phone number in
the paper, linking it to Ballina Coin Investments. So it's
the hard work and the deep dives that actually help
with this information and coming forward. And you know, I
work full time. I don't have all the time in
the world. I'm a mother of three. I'm busy, and
(55:01):
you know, this has consumed my life, particularly since we
started the podcast, you know, four and a half years ago.
It's I've had two jobs. This is one job, and
I've got my other job as well, and you know,
I'm grappling at every second to try and gain a
little bit more understanding, a little bit more information. And
you know, I'm happy to share it with everybody because
(55:23):
it's a story that's a live investigation still today twenty
six years later, and it's.
Speaker 7 (55:30):
No longer you know, just about your mum. It's about
a lot of women, and it's about the issue of
coercive control, and it's about the issue of hidden homicides.
I just want to read you what Adam Casslin was
saying to Rick on that about that revelation he made
that Marian had told him randomly just before she vanished
(55:50):
that she wanted to abandon her family. He says, could
the reason you disclosed that information, mister Bloom only yesterday
be because you know more about the disappearance of Marion
Barter than you have previous let on and you let
your guard down yesterday. No, I suggest to you that
you do know more than you are letting on about
the whereabouts of Maryon Barter. No, sir, No, I want
to suggest to you, mister Bloom, that you know more
(56:11):
about the whereabouts of Marying Barter than you have been
letting onto her honor throughout the course of her honor's
inquest Do you accept that? No, sir, No, I don't.
I don't know anything anything about Marion Barter. What's it
like hearing him repeatedly we asked these questions and just
give a flat denial.
Speaker 5 (56:31):
Well, I have learned sitting there watching a lot of
that conversation happen over time, and I've picked up on
certain things where mister Blum says certain things and certain
reactions to certain questions. So, not being an expert or
I kind of get the vibe. He has a certain
tone when he's answering a question in a certain way.
(56:51):
And that's become quite apparent to me. I'm sure people
like Laura Richard's would probably pick up on it as well,
And anybody who's been around and listened to these sorts
of things happen with other investigations before, you'd probably pick
up on it as well. So yeah, just it made
me angry because it was just an addition that he
(57:13):
could have openly come forward and said, oh, yes, I
knew Marion Barter. I had an affair with her back
in nineteen ninety seven, but she told me that she
wanted to leave her family. He could have done that.
What he did do was he was interviewed by police
and he denied knowing my mum at the very first instance.
(57:34):
He went home and had to think about it, and
then went back the next day and said, actually, I
did know her and I had an affair with her.
That always plays with my mind as well as to
why you just wouldn't be upfront and honest about it
in the very first instance.
Speaker 7 (57:48):
Well, that's the thing, Sal. He did a couple of
other things. He we know he invented and encountered with
your mom, supposedly in Switzerland and Liscern. He's initially said
in nineteen sixty eight sixty eight, when Marian's first husband,
Johnny Warren was there at a soccer training camp. So
we've confirmed that that encounter couldn't have happened. So he's
fabricated that. It appears he's fabricated that. And then of
(58:11):
course he did give reasons for your mum wanting to
go to England. He volunteered things like she was going
to buy a school. So for him not to mention
the overwhelming motive, believe me, until just a few days ago,
years later, to me, it just seems beyond belief.
Speaker 5 (58:31):
Yeah, well, and things like the school comment. None of
us well, I certainly hadn't heard anything about buying a school.
But since then, I've had a lady who has been
listening to the podcast and following, and her mom was
a good friend of my mom's, and my mum actually
wrote her a postcard as well, So they keep coming
out of the woodwork, which is amazing. And I'll tell
(58:51):
you all that Mum wrote to her and said something
along the lines of now this woman's a school teacher
as well, so understanding the why she might be bringing
this up with her. But she turned around and she said,
oh my god, did you know you can buy a
school over here? You only need don't quote because I
can't remember, but I think it says eighty thousand to
(59:12):
one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars exclamation exclamation exclamation
in a postcard from England to her teaching friend, which
for me that hadn't been in evidence or no one
had talked about that before. Mister Blumt told the world
that my mum had talked about buying a school over
in the UK, but she needed money to do that.
Speaker 7 (59:36):
Yeah, And then you know that's contemporaneous after an effect,
she left Australia.
Speaker 5 (59:41):
She was already overseas.
Speaker 7 (59:42):
How would he even know about that if he wasn't
with her?
Speaker 5 (59:47):
And the way it's written is like she's just found
out is the tone? Yeah, I mean, oh my gosh,
you know, did you know you could buy a school
over here?
Speaker 7 (59:58):
Because I think she.
Speaker 5 (59:58):
Probably would have had that comp with them before she left,
if it was something that was on her radar or
she had information or knowledge about. And to me, that
can lead potentially, if you think about it, to the
idea of having to come back to Australia to get
that eighty thousand dollars to pull it transfer and if
you look at the police report, it says it was
electronically transferred to an overseas account. That's what it says
(01:00:22):
on Graham Child's statement, the very first statement we've ever
had about mum's case on the Cops event, and it
says assuming to buy a new house with a new partner.
That's what it says on his statement. So it didn't
do the right thing back then to see where that
eighty thousand dollars went. And that's a very frustrating point
of this exercise for me, because that was transferred on
(01:00:44):
the fifteenth of October. I went to the police the
following week. That information was very readily available at that time,
and no one got the records and no one put
it on her file.
Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
Well I know. And also the assumption is kind of
breathtaking that you were just assumed money to buy a
house with a new partner. What's he basically.
Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Makes assumptions like that is my biggest gripe with its
whole entire cases. Do not assume, please still today, don't assume.
Speaker 7 (01:01:10):
Oh you think that actually has assumptions for a police
officer would be, well, someone stolen that money.
Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
The first assumption would be that she's a single woman.
This isn't right. She's supposed to be overseas. Something's not
right here.
Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
Just to touch on what we're talking about motive. The
only other motive I can recall mister Bloom offering was
Janet Oldenburg wanting to start a career as a belly
dartzer across Europe, and that was supposedly to explain why
he went to travel to Europe with her. I mean,
as much as I'm not shocked anymore by what comes
out of mister Bloom's mouth, I'm just staggered at the
(01:01:44):
way his mind must work to come up with some
of this stuff. And on that point, you know, we
heard a lot of medical evidence. The coroner said, no, no,
you have to come into the court. I've looked at
the medical evidence. You're coming into the court, which he
did on the first day. The second day he was
allowed to appear by a video link, but he cognitively
was with it. That was my impression. He understood everything.
(01:02:05):
He was able to follow everything and offer more and
more answers. What was your impression of his physical performance?
Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Well, I hang on every word, because every word is
absolutely vital, and what the things that I picked up
on when he's sitting there, going, my brain doesn't work
like yours, mister Smith. He was very quick to be
able to tell you what airline he flew on back
in nineteen eighty five. So I'm very sorry, but that
does not compute with my brain. That someone who says
(01:02:35):
that they have problems remembering things, but then at this
drop of a hat, it's like saying where he stayed
he went to when he went to Japan. He was
just asked a very casual question, Oh, you went to
Japan on that trip. What hotel did you stay in?
Hotel Nico and Narta off, just bang, straight off. There
was no time delay for him to think about where
(01:02:56):
he knew straight off the bat, so buy it sorry.
Speaker 7 (01:03:02):
And to that point, he also was able to remember
things he said yesterday the day before when mister Cawston
ran him through his evidence, do you remember saying this?
He absolutely remembered. So he's remembering things that he's just
said that have just happened, and things that he said
or happened decades ago. So it's hard to see where
the cognitive impairment is at all. Even his starter, which
(01:03:23):
was very pronounced the start. As the day wore on
on that first day, at times it disappeared completely. I'm
not sure medically that's typical of a started coming and going,
but it certainly did with mister Bloom on the stand.
Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
Shaking like that, didn't I sort of saw that come
in a little bit, but definitely not what it was
a year ago when we saw him in court in
Byron and Balano. So I can't kind of work that out.
Speaker 7 (01:03:48):
The hearings are over. The court was adjourned on Friday
at around about an hour into proceedings, so now the
weight begins for the coroner's findings. So what what hopes
do you have for these findings?
Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
Oh? I would like to see justice served. I've got
to be careful because I'm still before the coroner, very
grateful for them all, hating to sit there and endure
what I also have endured in my family, and that
hasn't been easy, and it's been quite was listening to
(01:04:28):
evidence take you five minutes to answer a question that
is tough, and it's mentally tough, and I'm sure that's
why it was done. But yeah, there are. There are
certain things that are a slam dunk in this case,
not so much pertaining to my mum, but pertaining to
(01:04:50):
other things that can be acted upon, and I really
will seek justice is served for those things. That's what
I'm wanting to see done, and then at that point
we can move on to the next level. I think
this is a stage by stage process. It's not like
a level. This is bang, this is what's going to happen.
But I'm not stopping. So for those that think that,
(01:05:15):
you know, oh well, she got her answer and she
will go away. Now, I still don't know where my
mum is. And at the end of the day, that's
the wholesal purpose of this exercise. Yeah, she's safe well,
and you guys have not been able to prove that
to me. And I don't know where she is, so
still until such time as we have clarity on that
or have a better understanding on that, and yeah, I'm
(01:05:38):
still here.
Speaker 7 (01:05:40):
Yeah, and we're here with yoursel As you've always said
right from the start, someone somewhere knows something and you
know the answer is out there and we're going to
find it.
Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Yep, We're close. And thank you to everybody for still
coming forward with little bits of information like like that postcard.
You know, it just shows again and that my mum
was in contact and in touch with her friends and
family right up until she vanished. So to me, not
the makings of somebody who never wanted to see her
family and friends ever again.
Speaker 7 (01:06:13):
No calling you the day before, Yeah, no, definitely not
the actions of someone abandoned her daughter and her family.
So thanks so much for this catch up and hopefully
I'll see you soon and good luck for the findings
and what comes next. We'll be right there with.
Speaker 5 (01:06:28):
You, fingers crossed. It doesn't take too long, and we.
Speaker 6 (01:06:31):
Know all of you are crossing your fingers that Sally
will finally get justice and find out what happened to
her mother. Coming up a special treat for new episodes,
taking you across the world the.
Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
Local time here, I'll puck to you in the afternoon.
Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
We reveal incredible new information.
Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
But fair to say it is cost you around at
least three hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
It may be more.
Speaker 6 (01:07:07):
And we take you into uncharted territory.
Speaker 8 (01:07:10):
It was obviously through food, the mechanism for turning food
into poison. Pcing quite proud boastful emen.
Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
If you knew Marion or have any information about her
or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you. Our
website is seven news dot com dot au forward slash
news forward slash The Lady Vanishers and you can also
message us here. You can also send us at anonymous
tip at www dot The Lady Vanishers dot org. If
(01:07:56):
you like what you're hearing, don't forget to subscribe. Please
rate and review our series. It helps new listeners find us.
Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy, investigative journalist Brian Seymour,
writer and producer Sally Eels. Sound design Mark Wright, Graphics
(01:08:18):
Jason Blamford, translation and transcripts a Stelle Sanchez, Voice actors
or Willian Ritter, Veronique Durcell and the Brisbane Newsroom. The
theme and much of the music by Nicholas Gasparini at
the Darkpiano dot com. Thanks again to Alliance Franseille. This
(01:08:43):
is a seven News production.
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