The Findings

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher
friend missing for twenty seven years.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,
that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Sure if it was intentional.

Speaker 4 (00:31):
There's something more foul afoot.

Speaker 5 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from the
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter.

Speaker 6 (00:40):
What I see.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly
believe somebody has that key piece of information.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.

Speaker 7 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
The lady vanishes, Episode fifty seven, The Findings. I'm Alison Sandy.

Speaker 8 (01:19):
And I'm Brian Seymour. And here we are New South
Wales Current's Court at Lidcombe Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:32):
I can see a bunch of people wearing green, a
couple more arriving here, a couple of high fives. Yeah,
there's going to be a good turnout today. What you'd
expect lots of people watching online.

Speaker 9 (01:43):
Welcome.

Speaker 8 (01:45):
Ah, it's going to be like thirty five degrees celsius today,
so maybe hotter out here. It's going to be a
very hot one. Otherwise, very clear, beautiful day. Yeah, car
park's about half full. It's still about just over half

(02:05):
an hour to the coroner gives her long awaited findings.
Oh yeah, yeah. The cafes crowded. There's a lot of
people here just waiting for the doors to open. Okay,
let's get in there.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
In the lead up to today, I contacted the office
of the New South Wales Coroner requesting that we be
granted access to the brief of evidence compiled by police
and the video of the police interview with Rick Blum
from September twenty twenty one. Here's the response I received.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Her Honor declines the application as the suspected death of
Marion Barter is an ongoing investigation, even though the coronial
proceedings will conclude once findings are delivered on Thursday.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
We're not sure what that means. Is the coroner foreshadowing
that she will be referring the matter to the DP
or is she just suggesting that the police investigation will
likely technically remain open even if she makes no particular
finding about what happened to Marian. Remember, the police told

(03:14):
us when we started five years ago that the case
was still ongoing despite having suspended their investigation in twenty eleven.
We're about to find out.

Speaker 8 (03:28):
Sally and Chris traveled to Sydney yesterday. Allison was on
the same flight. We all meet outside the New South
Wales Coroner's Court on this sunny morning, where a crowd
of supporters, many wearing green memory of Marian is building
in anticipation of the court opening.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
Yeah, I don't everything green in my cupboards? Are me?
I'm kind of lucky, is I have a lot of green,
so that was kind of a good thing for me.
It's not too bad. And then I have a really
nice green shop that I bought.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, what we're missing today, that's why. And you followed
from the beginning.

Speaker 6 (04:03):
Or from twenty maybe.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
It came out a little bit late, but yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
Then a friend put me onto the.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Podcast and had just been so invested in it since then. Incredible, Yeah,
absolutely incredible.

Speaker 10 (04:18):
Well, look I'm missing sale, I said, Look, I'm going
to come along. I might not get in the courtroom.
I don't know how many would turn up, and she said, no,
come definitely, come and come and sit with us. And
so I'm glad that. I'm glad she's got a good
turnout here.

Speaker 6 (04:30):
It's wonderful.

Speaker 10 (04:31):
She deserves She's done so well.

Speaker 5 (04:33):
She's She's like a dog with a bone, isn't she.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Sally's Facebook site missing person marying Barter is flooded with
images of people in green sending their best wishes from
all around the world. Likewise, the lady vanishes social media online.
More than two thousand people are waiting for the live
stream to begin that will grow to more than fifteen

(04:58):
thousand by the end the proceedings. The doors open at
nine forty five.

Speaker 8 (05:07):
Due to the large crowd waiting to get inside, Allison
stays in the media room while I take a seat
at the end of a row inside. The large hexagonal
courtroom quickly fills with supporters. The rest about thirty people
go to a separate viewing room in the front row.
Sally sits with Chris, her best friend Ray and Joni

(05:28):
Counsel assisting Adam Casseleden is at the legal bench along
with Sally's lawyer Brad Smith, and the legal representatives for
New South Wales Police. Rick Bloom's lawyer, mister White, is
appearing remotely, but the audio visual link meets with technical difficulties.
We can hear his dog barking and that elicits a
loud burst of laughter before mister White informs the court

(05:50):
he's not in a proper condition to appear on video.
There is no sign of Rick Bloom himself. Coroner Teresa
so Sullivan enters the court. Everyone stands and bows. The
lawyers announce themselves and the coroner begins.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I'd especially like to acknowledge Marion's daughter, Sally Laden, Marian's
son in law chris Leyden, and her grandchildren. My thoughts
are with you today.

Speaker 8 (06:19):
Once again, we are using voice actors to represent the
court's proceedings. Legally, we are not allowed to publish recordings.
The coroner says her full findings are very long, so
she'll only read a shorter summary and the complete findings
will be available when she closes the inquest.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
First, she revisits the facts. Marion Barter was last sighted
on June twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, by her friend
Leslie Loveday, who dropped her at a gold Coast Bus Depot.
Unbeknownst to her family, she had changed her name by
d poll to Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramkeel, and a

(06:59):
passport was issued in that name on May twenty, nineteen
ninety seven. The passport was recorded as departing Brisbane Airport
on June twenty second and returning on August second, nineteen
ninety seven. Marion's last recorded contact was a phone called
A Sally on August the first, and she gave no

(07:20):
indication she intended to return to Australia the following day.
Sally made a missing person's report to Byron Bay Police
on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, after receiving information
that significant funds had been withdrawn from her mother's bank
account in the preceding two months. Coroner O'Sullivan then makes

(07:43):
clear the parameters in which she worked.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's important to explain that an inquest is not a
criminal case. The witnesses and agencies involved in an inquest
are not on trial. It is not the role of
the coroner to attribute blame or to punish any one
for Marion's disappearance. Further, I am not to make findings
of civil liability and I have no power to award

(08:08):
compensation or damages.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Then the findings begin.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
I find that Marian, under the name of Florabella Natalia
Marian Remichel, traveled overseas on the twenty second of June
nineteen ninety seven. I find that, consistent with Sally's opinion,
the handwriting on the outgoing passenger card was Marian's, except
for the words Europe, Luxembourg and s Korea, which were

(08:33):
not written by Marian. I find that Marian deliberately traveled
overseas using her new name and took steps to ensure
that no family or close friend was aware of the
change of her identity. I find that Marian returned to
Australia under the name of Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel on
the second of August nineteen ninety seven, and took steps

(08:55):
to ensure that no one was aware of her return
to the country. That Marian did not leave Australia again
after the second of August nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 8 (09:08):
Council assisting had submitted that court should find Marian withdrew
a series of sums of five hundred dollars in August
nineteen ninety seven and attended the Byron Bay branch of
the Colonial State Bank and facilitated a transfer of eighty
thousand dollars on fifteen October nineteen ninety seven. This conflicts

(09:29):
with Sally's recollection from her conversation with a staff member
from the bank back in October nineteen ninety seven, the
daily withdrawals of five thousand dollars were being made. However,
it's understood the coroner made this finding based on the
memo to the Salvation Army made by Marion's father, John Wilson,
outlining a series of five hundred dollars withdrawals, as well

(09:49):
as evidence provided by bank staff that the ATM limit
was five hundred dollars. O'Sullivan finds that it was Marion
herself who were ten ended the bank, and that she
requested the transaction that day and told the bank teller
that she did not want her whereabouts revealed.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
There is insufficient evidence, however, for me to be able
to make a finding about her intentions.

Speaker 8 (10:15):
The Coroner makes a lot of findings in regards to Bloom,
but the ones she reveals in court adjust the pertinent ones.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
I find that the primary motivation for mister Blum's name
changes was in order to dishonorably represent himself to others,
and that mister Blum's weak explanation and denials that this
regard should be wholly rejected. On the tenth of December
nineteen ninety four, mister Blum placed a personal advertisement in
French in Licurier Australian under the name of M. F Remichel,

(10:47):
with an address of lenox Head and a telephone number.
I find that mister Blum could not satisfactorily explain why
he opened and used the post office box at lenox
Head when he had one in Battle, and that the
only reasonable explanation for the listing of the post office
box at lennox Head and the telephone number for Ballina
Cooyn investments in the advertisements was in order for mister

(11:11):
Blum to keep the advertisement and any response a secret
from his wife and family.

Speaker 8 (11:17):
The coroner finds that Bloom's evidence in regards to how
he met up with Marion in nineteen ninety seven is
unsatisfactory and contradictory. Sally looks impassive and resolute as the
findings are delivered. Her husband Chris and I frequently lock
eyes smile and nod, as Sally is repeatedly vindicated by

(11:38):
the coroner on many fronts, bringing long overdue recognition and
praise for her perseverance. The findings about Rick Bloom come
thick and fast.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
I find that there is a sufficient basis to find
that mister Blum met with Marion on at least three
occasions between February and May nineteen ninety seven, but mister
Blum's evidence is too unreliable for any further or more
particular findings with regard to the coincidence of Marion's change
of name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel and mister Blum's

(12:10):
use of the name Fernand Knuchelus Remachel, I find that
Marian changed her name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel because
she was in a relationship with mister Blum and sought
to share a name with him.

Speaker 8 (12:23):
She also believes that Marion and Bloom traveled together in England.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
I find that, based on the close proximity of the
dates of travel and mister Blum's admission he traveled to England,
and the tendency and coincidental evidence relating to a number
of other vulnerable women, that Marian and mister Blum traveled
together in England as a couple in a relationship for
at least some period of the time when Marion was

(12:49):
in England in nineteen ninety seven, although.

Speaker 8 (12:52):
Where they traveled together, the Coroner could not definitively say.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
There is insufficient evidence for me to find that mister
Blum actually traveled to Tunbridge Wells with Marion in June
or July nineteen ninety seven. Whilst I have found that
Marion and mister Blum traveled together in England for at
least some period, there is insufficient evidence for me to
find that mister Blum actually traveled to Rye Hastings and

(13:17):
Alfriston with Marion in June or July nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 8 (13:21):
The State Coroner also finds that the notepaper Marian used
to write a letter to Sally between the twenty second
and thirtieth of June nineteen ninety seven was taken by
mister Bloom from the Nico Narita hotel in Japan.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
I find that mister Blum traveled to Japan at the
relevant time and stayed at the hotel, obtained the notepaper
and gave it to Marion in England and.

Speaker 8 (13:46):
The reason Luxembourg was written on Marion's passenger card.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
With regard to the coincidence of Marion's purported residence as
Luxembourg and mister Blom's close association with Luxembourg, I find
that mister Blum, representing himself Fernand Remichel, suggested to Marian
that they start a new life together in Luxembourg.

Speaker 8 (14:06):
And as for any connection between Bloom and the large
withdrawals from Marion's bank account.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
With regard to the coincidence of mister Blum's application for
a safety deposit envelope in October nineteen ninety seven, a
day before Marion transferred eighty thousand dollars from her account,
I find that there is a sufficient factual basis to
make a finding that Marian withdrew the sums of money
from August nineteen ninety seven and transferred eighty thousand dollars

(14:36):
to an unknown account in October nineteen ninety seven on
the encouragement of mister Blum and in circumstances where Marion
believed she was in a relationship with him. However, there
is not enough evidence for finding to the requisite standard
as to whether and when mister Bloom actually received some

(14:57):
or all of Marion's money. With regard to the evidence
of the use of Marion's money to start a school overseas,
while certainly conceivable, such a finding is not supported by
the evidence. With regard to the evidence of mister Blum's
dishonest relationships with vulnerable women, I find that the evidence
of Jeanette Gafney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Guilaine Dubois, Dan Lois,

(15:22):
Andrea Flumm and demonstrates a tendency on the part of
mister Blum to misrepresent himself to single vulnerable women for
financial gain. And Further, I find that mister Blum had
a tendency to exploit vulnerable women. I also find that

(15:42):
mister Blum exploited Marion in nineteen ninety seven in the
manner in which he later exploited other women who gave
evidence in these proceedings. I make this finding despite mister
Blum's denials in this regard, and notwithstanding that the women
involved in his later relationships remained alive and well. I

(16:03):
find that mister Bloom entered into a relationship with Marion
in nineteen ninety seven, and encouraged her to start a
new life with him. To this end, Marian changed her name,
spent some time with mister Blom in England, and on
return to Australia, represented herself as married to mister Bloom

(16:25):
and demonstrated an intention to start a new life in
Luxembourg with him. Mister Blom traveled to England to spend
time with Marion when he clearly did not intend to
pursue the relationship because he was married with children and
lived in Wollongbach in New South Wales.

Speaker 8 (16:42):
Corone O'Sullivan notes that she's made written findings in regards
to the evidence of Jeanette Gaffney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Gulaine
Duins de Lois, Andre Flammay, and the woman we've always
referred to as Charlotte. She does not read those findings
out in court, but does say she accepts the evidence
of all four women, before then returning her attention back

(17:04):
to Bloom.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Mister Blum's evidence is of great importance in these proceedings.
It is necessary for the court to assess his credibility.
In short, I do not accept as accurate anything that
mister Blum has said in evidence. In the absence of
independent corroborating evidence, I find that mister Blum, whilst in

(17:26):
an intimate relationship with Marion, persuaded or otherwise encouraged her
to sell her house in nineteen ninety seven. The evidence
is not sufficient to prove that mister Blum played any
causative role in Marian's decision to resign from her employment.
With regard to the role of mister Blum and the
storage of Marion's tea chests at his house, I find

(17:49):
that there is a sufficient factual basis for me to
make a finding that Marian agreed with a proposal by
mister Blum for him to take possession of some of
her belongings before she traveled to Europe. I make this
finding based on the stark similarities with the evidence of
Miss Dubois dan Lois that in two thousand and six

(18:12):
mister Blum suggested and facilitated the packing and purported shipping
of trunks of her possessions to Australia. However, I find
mister Blum's account of the storage of three or four
tea chests and the existence of an unknown man in
uniform who was planning to travel with Marion is implausible
with regard to whether mister Blum played any role in

(18:34):
Marion's life after she returned to Australia. There is a
sufficient basis for me to make a finding that mister
Blum was in communication with Marion and played some role
in her life following her return to Australia in August
nineteen ninety seven. Mister Blum's evidence in the final days

(18:55):
of the inquest, when asked by counsel assisting, would you
like to say anything further in relation to the disappearance
of Marion Barter, was extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
You might recall, on the eve of the last day
of giving evidence, mister Blum suddenly volunteered a conversation he
claims he had with Marion the last time he saw
her before she traveled overseas. He said she told him
she no longer wanted anything to do with her family
and was cutting off all contact.

Speaker 8 (19:27):
It was the first time he had made that claim.
He never once told it to police, lawyers or the
coroner in the previous two years. It was a stunning
turn of events and one that clearly impacted heavily on
Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
This evidence, along with his lies and deception throughout the
inquest has convinced me that he does indeed no more
than he is saying. I make the following further findings
regarding mister Bloom. Firstly, that he has further knowledge about
the circumstances of Marian's travel overseas. Secondly, that he has

(20:06):
further knowledge of his relationship with her in the months
prior to her disappearance. Thirdly, he has further knowledge of
her circumstances following her return from overseas. Fourthly, that he
has further knowledge of the withdrawals and transfer of her money.
And Finally, that there is a sufficient basis for a

(20:28):
finding that he was and is deliberately unwilling to divulge
this further knowledge to the court.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Teresa O'Sullivan then focuses on New South Wales Police.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Having considered all the evidence tended in the submissions made,
I find that the nature and adequacy of the police
investigation into the disappearance of Marian by New South Wales
Police between her disappearance in nineteen ninety seven up until
twenty nineteen was not adequate. It is clear from the
evidence that following the initial report made by Sally to

(21:01):
Byron Bay Police Station on the twenty second of October
nineteen ninety seven, that very little was done to investigate
Marion's whereabouts until approximately ten years later in two thousand
and seven. I find that the police investigation into the
disappearance of Marian by New South Wales Police from the
report on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven

(21:24):
up until two thousand and seven was not conducted in
an appropriate and timely manner and not consistent with the
relevant policy enforced within New South Wales Police at the time.
I find that Detective Senior Constable Schian should not have
reclassified Marian as located.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
In twenty eleven, the coroner lists specific findings in regards
to the police investigation, including six of the eleven proposed
by Sally Leyden and her legal team. One that seeing it,
Constable Graham Child's should not have classified Sally's report made

(22:04):
on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven of
her mother being missing as an occurrence only event. Two
that Graham Childs was unaware of the definition of a
missing person in Commissioner's instruction, and that he classified the
report as an occurrence only based on his own subjective
view of the sense of urgency. Three that it was

(22:29):
unsatisfactory and inappropriate for Graham Child's not to have reclassified
the event from an occurrence only to an active investigation.
Four that as a result of failures at the first
reporting of Marion Barter's disappearance, her case was not investigated
for almost ten years until two thousand and seven, and

(22:53):
that led to the unavailability of crucial evidence. Five That
Maryon Barter was listed as a missing person for the
first time on the sixth of July two thousand seven
by Senior Constable joe Anne Williams as a result of
being contacted by Rebecca Cotts of the Australian Federal Police

(23:14):
Missing Persons Unit. Six That Detective Senior Constable Gary Shehan's
decision to recommend that Maryon Barter be removed from the
missing person's register on the twenty second of September two
thousand eleven was incorrect and Marion should not have been
classified as located in two thousand and eleven.

Speaker 8 (23:40):
The coroner agrees that there should be no suggestion that
Sally in any way delayed the investigation by New South
Wales Police or behaved in a manner that can be
described as anything other than understandable and consistent with a
daughter very confused and anxious at finding out about out
her mother's circumstances. Teresa O'Sullivan also notes that the resistance

(24:05):
in this inquest by New South Wales Police to accept
the inadequacies of the initial police investigation is difficult to understand,
especially given the very clear evidence of Detective Chief Inspector
Brown about what should have happened in nineteen ninety seven. Finally,

(24:25):
the formal findings, what does the coroner believe happened to
Marian Barter?

Speaker 2 (24:34):
As a result of having considered all of the documentary evidence,
the oral evidence given at the inquest and submissions, I find,
on the balance of probabilities that Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel,
formerly known as Marion Barter, is deceased. While I am
unable to determine the exact date of death, I find

(24:56):
that Marian is likely to have died on a date
after the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven. I'm unable
to determine the place of Marian's death. I'm unable to
determine the cause of Marion's death. I'm unable to determine
the manner of Marian's death. Marian's remains have not been

(25:16):
found and the available evidence does not allow me to
make findings as to the possible cause and manner of
Marian's death. However, the circumstances surrounding Marian's disappearance are troubling. Accordingly,
I make the following recommendation to the new South Wales
Commissioner of Police. I recommend that the new South Wales

(25:40):
Commissioner of Police calls the investigation into the death of
missing person Floribella Natalia Marion Remicel, formerly known as Marion Barter,
to be referred or to remain within the State Crime
Command Unsolved Homicide Team for ongoing investigation, review and monitoring.

(26:02):
The family submitted that the court should formerly refer mister
Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Attorney
General to consider charges of either perjury or making a
false statement. I am of the view that any referral
of mister Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or
the Attorney General to consider charges of perjury or false

(26:24):
statements on oath is a matter best left for the
police investigators, particularly considering the investigation has not concluded.

Speaker 8 (26:34):
The coroner emphasizes that the five hundred thousand dollars reward
for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any
person or persons responsible for Marian's disappearance still stands.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
I strongly encourage any member of the public who has
any information relating to the disappearance of Marion Barter or
information relating to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel to come forward
and to sh share that information with New South Wales Police.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
She also confirms that a DNA profile from a sample
provided by Sally Laden has been uploaded to the New
South Wales and National DNA databases for continuous searching against
any unidentified human remains. In closing Corona, O'Sullivan commends the
legal representatives, especially the Council Assisting team Adam Castleden, Tracy

(27:28):
Stephens and Clara Patocki. She expresses gratitude to the work
carried out by New South Wales Police Detectives Inspector Nigel Warren,
Sergeant Sasha Panazza and Senior Constable Lisa Pisotto, and has
a special message for Sally Lyden.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I'd like to acknowledge and commend Sally on her unwavering
commitment and participation in the coronial investigation and in quest
to find out what happened to her mother. She has
shown fortitude, dignity, resilience and grace throughout these proceedings. I
express my sympathy and condolences to Sally, Chris Bronwin, Deirdre Lee,

(28:09):
Marian's grandchildren, Marian's family, friends and loved ones, and the
many people that Marian touched in her life. I would
like to again acknowledge that the experience of grief for
the family of a missing person is complex and difficult,
and there remain many unanswered questions. Finally, I'd like to

(28:31):
conclude by acknowledging and recognizing the person that Marian was
to her family, friends and loved ones. Witnesses who provided
statements and evidence at the inquest described Marian as a
loving and caring person who had a fondness for antiques
and the arts, who could easily make friends, and was

(28:51):
also a gifted teacher. It is fitting to end with
the words shared by Sally to the court, reading from
the family's statement, in which she described Marion as a kind,
caring soul with a wicked laugh. She was intelligent, she
was cultured, and she had so many friends who loved
and miss her. Still. She would always bring you flowers

(29:13):
a ra cake. She was a very generous human. I
close this inquest.

Speaker 8 (29:27):
This is both wonderful and frustrating for the Lady Vanish's team.
On the one hand, the coroner has referred Marian's death
to the New South Wales Police to be investigated as
an unsolved homicide, but she stopped short of referring any
person to the Director of Public Prosecutions the DPP to

(29:47):
consider laying criminal charges. There are, however, serious findings about
mister Rick Bloom. It's a lot to take in, and
Sally confers with the Channel seven lawyers who have been
with her throughout out the two and a half year
long in quest. Outside, her supporters are digesting what they've
just heard.

Speaker 11 (30:07):
I'm glad with what we heard obviously today, but it
could have been a bit more for our best types.
But I think a lot Sally's really been vindicated with
what she's how she's handled herself through all these years,
and I just hope that the police pursue it to
their full, you know, full capabilities, and someone.

Speaker 8 (30:26):
Gets charged with something important.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
My name is Terry from Sydney.

Speaker 12 (30:32):
Who's here from Senior too?

Speaker 8 (30:33):
And how did you hear about this case?

Speaker 5 (30:36):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (30:36):
I just have it.

Speaker 12 (30:37):
I'm a podcast listener, like all kinds of podcast. When
I started into a southern nineteen Oh my god, like
that's so fatally, I don't intrigue, never miss an episode
and a repeat like I listened again again. This is
the best.

Speaker 8 (30:55):
I really do love it.

Speaker 12 (30:57):
I listened so much, but this.

Speaker 8 (30:59):
One, Yes, thank you, that's very sweet. And then it's
such a unique case. So and I've been journ this
for thirty years. I've never investigated a case like this,
so I don't think I can't think of one like it.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Sally and Chris finally emerge from the corner's court, and
television news cameras follow them. We catch up with them
and about forty supporters at a nearby park, where Sally
is interviewed for seven years.

Speaker 13 (31:24):
First of all, tell us about who you've brought along
with you today as a huge contingent of people.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
Well, I didn't bring them. They came.

Speaker 7 (31:30):
They came, and I put out the call and said
would you come and wear some green as some support
for my mum, and it's been amazing. These humans and
the many more millions that are following who can't be
here today, are really passionate about me finding out what's
happened to Mom.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
And I'm really.

Speaker 7 (31:48):
Grateful for that because without their support, I don't think
I'd be able to do what we've achieved and where
we're at today.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
So I'm really grateful and thank you.

Speaker 13 (31:55):
Today is the combination of a really long battle for
you to find out exactly what happened to your mum.
How do you feel today?

Speaker 7 (32:04):
How do I feel? I don't actually know. I've got
an adrenaline going still. Coron has just told me officially
my Mum's deceased. So that's the first time I've heard
that in twenty seven years, which is a long time.
As you can appreciate, it's hard enough when someone does die,
but to not have them in your world for such
a long time and not know and then get to
the point where you find out that they have died

(32:26):
and we now need to move to the next stage
of what that involves for me.

Speaker 6 (32:31):
So is there any.

Speaker 13 (32:33):
Sense and I guess plasure is a terrible word, but
is there any sense of closure in hearing that the
coroner has has said today what you might have known said.

Speaker 7 (32:42):
Yeah, we don't use the word closure at all in
the world of the missing anymore. We refer to it
as ambiguous loss because we know that something has happened,
but we don't know how, the where, the the why,
So we like to refer it to it as ambiguity.
And that's actually a huge trauma to actually people to
deal with who live with that. And I think that

(33:05):
there's a point of resolution today with the coroner telling me,
And you know, I appreciated that she looked me in
the eye as she was giving a lot of her
handing downs, and I know that, you know, she cares
about my mum and that she wanted to do her best.
And I'm really grateful for the efforts. It's been nearly
three years of inquest, so it's been mammoth and it's

(33:25):
been a huge task to undertake for myself personally and
my family as well.

Speaker 13 (33:29):
She made some pretty escaping findings about mister Bloom or
mister Blum. What did you make of those.

Speaker 7 (33:34):
Upon hearing them? Well, I was glad to hear it
come from her. You know, we've been waiting for a
long time to hear what her opinion was on the situation,
and I think we've all got our own opinions on
the situation, and it was just nice to hear it
from her in her role as the new Southwestate coroner.

Speaker 13 (33:51):
She stopped short of recommending that police lay charges against
him over your mum's death. How did that feel?

Speaker 5 (33:58):
Look, who is kind of expected from my point of view?

Speaker 7 (34:02):
You know, I know I knew in my heart that
I would have to fight harder and longer to get
the ancests to what's actually happened.

Speaker 5 (34:09):
So I'm prepared for the fight.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
You know.

Speaker 5 (34:11):
I haven't given up yet.

Speaker 7 (34:13):
I don't know what keeps me going, but you know,
I probably need a breather from this, and then we
have some pretty big plans to keep on keeping on
because we know the answers are out there and I'm
just certainly not one person to give up.

Speaker 5 (34:25):
I should clarify that I probably don't have a break.

Speaker 7 (34:28):
I'm doing four live shows with Alison and Brian Seymour
and from Channel seven, and we're doing those. They start
in on the Gold Coast where Mum actually went missing
on the tenth of March, and then We've got two
shows in Brisbane consecutive days and then one down here
in Sydney at Randwick and they're a fundraiser that we've
put together with the funds helping Joony Condos, who's been

(34:52):
an instrumental person in helping me gather information on my
mum's case. We're heading overseas together ourselves later in the year.
I obviously needed a death certificate to be able to
access information about my mum because privacy has been one
of the massive hurdles I've had to deal with over
the years where I can't garner any information without that.
So as sad as it is a bittersweet as it

(35:15):
is to have the desertificity is really a big part
of the story.

Speaker 13 (35:18):
When does it stop? Is that when you see charges
laid or is that when you have a more detailed
understanding of what happened to your mum.

Speaker 7 (35:26):
I would like to see justice served, and there's certain
elements of that that need to be need to be
looked into. There's certain people that I've contacted recently, like
the AFP Peter Dutton's office, where things like the citizenship
application that Rick Blum applied for that needs investigation from

(35:48):
a higher person than myself. And I've been told by
all of those people, and I'm not just singling out
those two, but they've all said to me, Oh, we
need to wait for the inquest to finish. So the
inquest is finished, so let's go. Let's start action on
those sorts of things that we know for fact and
are in the brief of evidence and publicly available documents
for anybody to see.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
So I really would encourage that to happen.

Speaker 7 (36:11):
And I'd also like to do a call out if
I can, to the new South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb.
I'd really like to see my mum's case garner a
million dollars in a reward for any information about her
disappearance and her death. So I really I think everyone
would agree with me that that's deserving. She's been missing

(36:33):
for twenty seven years and someone knows something, so we
need to put it out there for them to come forward.

Speaker 8 (36:40):
The reporter asks Sally about me and Allison, as we're
both standing right there.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
We've worked together for five years now. You know.

Speaker 7 (36:48):
I was only saying to Chris last night sitting at
the hotel, and I said, I asked you five years
ago if you could give me six months to do.
After I'd met Allison, I said, can I have six
months to try? And mum and he goes and it
was at the table with all the kids as well,
and they all said yes, that's fine. Five years later,
we're here. So it's for anybody who's questioning it. It's

(37:10):
very long, arduous journey. It's not easy. It's very stressful,
and as I've said, you know, without people and humans
in your circle, it's very hard to manage.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
So I'm really grateful for that.

Speaker 7 (37:22):
If someone is missing, particularly a woman, and that woman
has children and a family, please do not say it's
not suspicious. You should start it suspicious and work your
way back. If you find them in twenty four hours,
we'll pat on the back. That's great, But don't come
in ten days later and go, oh, it's suspicious now,
because it was suspicious to begin with. And we actually
need more action taken at those high level entry levels

(37:44):
when someone goes missing, and particularly if a family members
saying something's wrong, like I did. You know that's where
I'm at right now because they didn't take me seriously
back then, and you know, I think the coroner gave
some pretty scathing replies to the New South Wales Police
how they handled the case.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
They didn't follow procedure.

Speaker 7 (38:03):
They did things like marked my mum as located when
she had not been and that's something that has been
very upsetting for me, and it runs through your blood.
It's very very hard to swallow. And I haven't even
had an apology. If I can put it, put it
out there. You know, I still haven't from the police
had any apology for how I've been treated.

Speaker 5 (38:25):
You probably will. Five all watched the inquest.

Speaker 7 (38:28):
I was I was treated pretty harshly as well, so
and the coroner recognized that as well in her findings today.
So it has been a hard journey and I'm happy
to be here and I'm happy to have so many
people wearing green for my mum today.

Speaker 5 (38:40):
So yeah, it's a bittersweet day.

Speaker 13 (38:43):
Can you tell us about your mum?

Speaker 7 (38:45):
Oh my mum, M Well, my mum was. We're very
different humans. I always used to joke and say I
like top forty and she likes bark. But we got
on quite well as a mother daughter. She was a
busy mum. She was a single mum for most of
our life. And obviously I'd like to mention my brother too.

(39:06):
He's not here today, and you know, he he took
his own life because the police told us that my
mum didn't want us in her world anymore. And uh,
that's had huge ramifications for me and my dad and
my family. But I speak for him today as well.

(39:26):
But my mom loved us both. She treated us well,
she fed us well, we always dressed beautifully as kids.
And she was an intelligent, award winning school teacher. She
had just won the Best Teacher in Queensland and was
awarded that in November of ninety six by Ida. Buttro's
who she adored, and that if you put the timeline

(39:48):
into that, she she was gone and done out of
this prefer all in in June the following year. So
there's some thing's gone on there and the timeline is
really important to getting the answers.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
But yeah, I miss my mum. It's hard not having
a mum to talk to you.

Speaker 7 (40:04):
It's hard not having her as a friend, especially when
you're having babies and things like that as well.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
And yeah, I miss her. I miss her.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
I'd be really proud of you.

Speaker 5 (40:14):
Yeah, I hope. So I hope.

Speaker 7 (40:16):
I hope she'd I think she'd be going good on
yourself like she'd she would always sort of just give
me a pat on the back because I'm a bit
of a go getter and I do I do things
not by halves, and she's known that about me, and
I think she'd be proud of the fact that I'm
fighting for her and I'm giving her a voice because unfortunately,
when someone does go missing, it's falls back to those

(40:37):
people in her family or when you're at their family,
to be the voice, and that's hard.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
So yeah, I just miss her now.

Speaker 8 (40:45):
Allison asks Sally a few more questions.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Five years ago, you didn't know what had happened to
your mom. Do you feel like you know now?

Speaker 7 (40:53):
I'm definitely have a better understanding. I mean, obviously, you know,
even the coroner can't tell us where, when, how, why,
But I know she's deceased, and you know, the coroner
has firmly suggested that mister Blum was with my mum
when she came back to Australia, and I think that
was a pretty big call from her and one that's

(41:14):
important in the case. So I hope, yeah, I hope
the police want to look into that a little bit further.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Now, you don't know the manner of the death. I
think you know, I know you've said before you have
a much better understand Do you feel as though justice
can be served in these circumstances.

Speaker 5 (41:36):
Well, I certainly hope.

Speaker 7 (41:37):
So, you know, I can't answer that because I'm always
gagged by other people and what they say and what
they want to do.

Speaker 5 (41:45):
So if people want to take.

Speaker 7 (41:46):
It on board and actually work on it and do something,
who can That would be amazing. And you know there's
always a possibility that we can find the truth. Yes,
and look the detectives on the case of recent times,
you know, there's supportive, They're caring. They've told me that,
you know, they're here for me if I need anything.
But it is hard as a daughter to take it

(42:07):
all on and have to do a lot of it,
you know, yourself, because they're busy doing other things. So
it does does make it extremely exhausting. But you know,
I'm happy to be able to do it and happy
to help. I've always given everybody everything because I just
want the answers. So I'll just have to continue down
that route.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Sally and her support has gather for a group photo.
Then Brian and Sally talk about some of the specific findings.

Speaker 8 (42:32):
I was watching you when the coroner was giving your finding,
so you're pretty stoic. You didn't share much emotion, but
I'm guessing it was boiling away inside.

Speaker 5 (42:39):
It was boiling.

Speaker 7 (42:41):
There was a few tears, like just weelling, but I
just wanted to try and keep.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
Keep it together. It's important that you do that, so
I cried, Yeah, I did. I looked at you.

Speaker 7 (42:52):
Once and then I got distracted. I was like, I
need to look back at the car, and I dismissed
what she said.

Speaker 8 (42:57):
And she looked at you. She made teaching, she did often.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
Yeah, she looked at me at a lot of points.
And I have a lot of time for her.

Speaker 7 (43:04):
She's obviously thought long and hard about the decisions and
what the invidence is that's before her, and I'm really
grateful for the opportunity because obviously I was even fighting.
If you think back to when we first started. When
I wrote to the coroner, I had Gary she in
telling me that it's not a New South Walest case,
it's a Queensland case and it should be referred to Queensland.

Speaker 5 (43:24):
And he just didn't want a bar of it.

Speaker 7 (43:26):
So that was quite momentous to get to that point
even of just having an inquest and then who would
have thought it would take three years to get here,
so exhausting long, But you know, it's good to have
her verbalize it to me and I can sit there
and process at now and work at what the next
step is.

Speaker 8 (43:44):
In particular, just a couple of the key findings. Obviously,
she found that your mum has passed away, but she
also found that Rick Bloom had a relationship with your
mum and lured her with the promise of a new
life overseas. That's an official finding. That's a huge vindication.

Speaker 7 (43:58):
Yeah, well we knew that, right, we put it all together.
You and I got on a plane and went to
Luxembourg together to go and saw the answers before any
of that even happened. So, you know, I think just
hearing it from someone of official, you know, an official level, is.

Speaker 8 (44:14):
Important, and that the police didn't do their job at
the start, and that this your mum could have been
found if they'd done their job properly. I mean, there's
a chance she could have been found.

Speaker 5 (44:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (44:23):
Well, I'm still stuck on a bit of the whole
situation with his citizenship application, you know, because that reality
is if the police and immigration had actually done their
job back in six year, you know, he might not
have actually been allowed to enter into Australia. And then
that that's a whole nother ballgame, whole nother story really.

Speaker 8 (44:46):
Yeah, and just the finding that Gary Sheen, you know,
obviously announced your mum had been located, took her off
the missing persons register.

Speaker 7 (44:53):
It's just an.

Speaker 8 (44:53):
Arbitrary, totally unwarranted act. I mean, it just makes me
insane with rage to think that that could have happened.
Good to hear the Comdent today confirmed that was his
flat out wrong.

Speaker 7 (45:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
And I've always been you've seen me with him.

Speaker 7 (45:05):
I always tried to be so nice and kind and
giving of information.

Speaker 8 (45:09):
And he's a nice guy.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
He's a nice guy. But he made an error like
that was an error.

Speaker 7 (45:13):
You don't list someone as located when you have never
cited them or seen them. And you know, and the
fact is there's another element of that where they didn't
follow protocol. So the Missing Person's Unit are not authorized
to be able to.

Speaker 5 (45:28):
Mark someone as located.

Speaker 7 (45:29):
It has to come from the local police, which is
Gary Shan, but he sort of pushed it onto them.
They made the call, so even that in itself is
not by the book. And that's that was really hard
for me. I remember that that phone call so well,
and I could not fathom that they would sit there
and mark her located. And you know, we spoke about
it on the podcast where he said to me, you know, oh,

(45:51):
well there's a box for missing, and there's a box
for located. There's nothing in the middle, so we have
to mark her as located because we believe that's that
she's gone missing on her own account. And I'm like,
no one's really looking deep into that, like they're just
it's just the police just say it and then I'm
expected as a family member to just accept it.

Speaker 8 (46:11):
And well Gary also said he checked told me when
I interviewed, and that he checked the Queensland Department of
Transport and that license was sitting there since nineteen eighty eight,
correct in that name, he could have located Rick Bloomber.

Speaker 7 (46:23):
Frustrating, you know, all the fact that they were looking
for a doctor in Raften and not an optometrist, like
if they had actually found that information when it was
noted there's a very good chance the records would have
still been held, and we had Dean Evans, who was
the optometrist, on the stand at the inquest, and he
said that she would have filled out a new patient
card and that would have had an address on it,

(46:45):
maybe a phone number, and that would have been a
massive find and that was lost because they were looking
for a doctor.

Speaker 8 (46:50):
The coronor also found that Rick Bloom lud your mum
away with the promise of a new life, that he
did convince her to withdraw money. She couldn't say that
he received the money, and that he knew more than
he was telling that he was evidence. She dismissed his
claims outright as a liar and that he knows more
than he is told, and she encouraged the New South

(47:12):
Wales Police, the homicide team to continue investigating this case.
That possibly was a little stronger than I thought she
might go having sat in many coronial inquist findings. What
was your reaction to hearing that.

Speaker 7 (47:25):
Well, she pretty much just said what I was thinking.
So I think anybody who sat through his evidence would
know that there's a lot that's been said. But yeah,
I don't know if I believe him much of what
comes out of his mouth, So I would like the
police to keep looking. You know, Laura Richards has always

(47:46):
said to me, you know, age should not be a
reason as to why you don't sort of keep asking questions.
So yeah, I'm just I'm in that holding pattern right
now where I can't really can't really comment on what
other people think or say, but I know what I
feel in my heart, so that's just going to keep
me going. I just would have liked her to refer

(48:06):
it to the DPP for further investigation. So I think
there's more to see, you know, more to find, more
to look at, more to investigate, more than anything.

Speaker 8 (48:14):
So and she said it's the homicide squad, then the
Southwest Police to do exactly that. Do you have faith
that they will be able to complete an investigation and
maybe lay charges against someone?

Speaker 5 (48:24):
I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see.

Speaker 7 (48:27):
I just got told that they're very busy, so we'll
see how that pans out. But I would hope, so,
I hope so they will gave me a nice hug
and you know, wish me well. So I'm hoping that
I'm hoping that they will yeah help bring justice for
my mum.

Speaker 8 (48:45):
Just on a personal note, it's been just a pleasure
to meet you. I can remember vividly the first time
I went to your house in Risbon, did that interview
in November twenty eighteen, and just how unbelievable even then
when we knew so little your mum's story was. I
couldn't imagine where it had gone. But you're an absolute hero,
not just of all the followers around the world, but
to me as well and everyone involved in the case.

(49:08):
Good on you for hanging in there. Thank you and
congratulations on getting this far. It's a huge milestone.

Speaker 13 (49:12):
Hope.

Speaker 8 (49:12):
You know just how important it is to get to
this stage now do your whole approach and your perseverance
has been Yeah.

Speaker 7 (49:19):
I'm very grateful for the I'm grateful for it, the
opportunity to be able to get to a coigner's in
quest and you know I send you that to you guys.
At best, I would like just a proper investigation done,
because I just really felt for so long it wasn't
being done properly, and I feel like I've got to
that point. I don't know if where at the end
we need to keep moving.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
I would have liked to be at the end so
I can just rest.

Speaker 7 (49:44):
But yeah, Joanie and I have got a few more
things that we have to do, and we'll share with
you what we find and what we what we do
moving forward.

Speaker 8 (49:52):
Well, I'll be listening in with everyone else for the best.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Thanks as soon as the findings were published each DAP
to our criminal behavioral analyst Laura Richards, formerly of New
Scotland Yard, Well, I mean.

Speaker 14 (50:06):
I think firstly, the coroner was very respectful in tone
to Sally and pay tribute to her.

Speaker 6 (50:14):
So I think that the tone felt very respectful.

Speaker 14 (50:17):
Her, paying tribute to Sally's non stop questioning and also
humanizing Marian. I thought that was a very important part
of the proceedings. I wish other people would do that
when talking about cases we loved ones. I think that

(50:39):
there was a lot of information to process, and I
was furiously writing down everything she said, and it's one
hundred and sixty eight pages of her ruling, so I
tried to as she said, the headlines the pertinent points
for her, and I've tried to summarize them to make
sense of myself.

Speaker 6 (50:58):
But I think the significant.

Speaker 14 (51:01):
Things were that she acknowledged that Rick Blum was in a.

Speaker 6 (51:06):
Relationship with Marion, and that.

Speaker 14 (51:09):
Relationship because Rick Blum was saying, well, it was just sex.
I think it was an important acknowledgment in her findings,
and that the notepaper that was used that Marian used
to write to Sally the Hotel Nico in the Rita
Japan notepaper that was used, she acknowledged that in her

(51:31):
findings that she believed that Rick Blum gave that.

Speaker 6 (51:34):
To Marion, so that's important. And the third part of
that was that they were in England together, and she
tended to go for the broad brush.

Speaker 14 (51:48):
Pertinent findings like traveling to England together, but not being
specific about.

Speaker 6 (51:54):
Everywhere they traveled. II.

Speaker 14 (51:56):
She said that she can't say whether they're in Tunbridge
well and whether they traveled on to Brighton and Rye
and so forth together. But she also talked about the money,
which I thought was significant, the money that Rickdam encouraged
her to transfer that money. So again traveling to England

(52:17):
and traveling back back to Australia then being together that significant,
but also encouraging Rick Blum encouraging Marion to transfer the money,
and she didn't go further than that, and I thought
that that was interesting because there's no currently, there's no
money trail to say that it.

Speaker 6 (52:38):
Left Marion's account and it went.

Speaker 14 (52:40):
To the physical safety envelope account of Rick Blum. But
she did pass comment on the timings of that money
transfer and him opening that the safety envelope. She acknowledged
the other women and that was a very important finding
that she found them credible.

Speaker 6 (52:59):
Jeanette Glaine and the women.

Speaker 14 (53:01):
That you found through the Lady vanishes that Rick Blum
exploited them and that they were credible, and I think
that's very important for them to hear, and that he
also exploited Marian and she believed that that's what happened.
So she said that she believed that he had no

(53:21):
intention of a future with Marion because when they traveled
back to Australia really married.

Speaker 6 (53:27):
And had children.

Speaker 14 (53:30):
But she didn't take it to the next stage, which
I'll come back to. But she did acknowledge what Rick
Blum said in that he was an important witness, but
she could not find him credible and that the te
chest explanation, for example, she believes at the te chess
where Marion was asked to store things, and when he

(53:52):
taught that chess being at his she believed that that
did happen because of that happening in other cases with
the te chess.

Speaker 6 (54:00):
So she clearly was.

Speaker 14 (54:01):
Drawing from the other women and mapping it across to
Marian's case. But what she found implausible with was Rick
Blum's explanation that she went with this mystery man with
the tea chess somewhere, So she was dismissing him, putting
other people into the timeline, and distancing himself. And I

(54:23):
thought that that was interesting and significant.

Speaker 6 (54:27):
The last plart.

Speaker 14 (54:28):
Parts regarding Rick Blum, and there are other bits, but
just from the top of my head from having processed
it just an hour or so ago, she did say
that she felt he knew more than what he's saying,
and that he had knowledge of much more about the
overseas trip. He had knowledge of Marian and events prior

(54:50):
to her disappearing, that he had knowledge of Marian and
her returning and what happened thereafter once they returned to Australia,
and he knowledge about the money transfer, but that he
refused to pass that information onto the court. And I
think that that's significant that she's saying that he knows

(55:11):
more and if he were completely innocent. What she's not
saying in the subtext was if he were completely innocent,
he would have no reason to hide this information from
the court because it is a coroner's inquest and as
she laid out, she cannot talk about criminal offenses, she
cannot push for anything in terms of civil remedy. It

(55:33):
is a fact finding inquest. So she found Rick Blum
not credible and that ostensibly he knows more and he's
lying through the omission of information. And I thought it
was also interesting what she said about the police investigation
by New South Wales Police, and it does interlink because

(55:55):
what she said was that it wasn't adequate from the
time that Marian was reported missing by Sally, and she
went through each of the points of each officer really
failing Sally and that they didn't investigate for ten years
and because of that, there's a limited amount of information
and evidence available. Because of that, that stimmied the investigation,

(56:19):
which is why we are where we are, And she
didn't mince her words about that, and I think that
that's important. Had the lines of investigation and inquiry being followed,
then we wouldn't have all these question marks, so there
is an element of culpability there the New South Wales Police,
and it impacted on the availability of evidence. She of

(56:42):
course talked about her findings in that Marian was deceased,
and I think we all knew that she.

Speaker 6 (56:51):
Would reach that conclusion.

Speaker 14 (56:53):
But she could not say the date of her dying,
She could not say the place, She could not say
the cause of death or the manner of death. But
she found the circumstances troubling. That statement is important. She
found it troubling, the circumstances, and that led her really
into the next part, which was that she was referring

(57:13):
it to New South Wales Police for investigation, review and monitoring.
And she said very clearly the investigation was not over correct.

Speaker 6 (57:23):
Had not concluded.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yes, and I mean she certainly seems to have the
measure of the man in Rick Blum, but is limited
with how far or how how she can go in
relation to his criminality.

Speaker 6 (57:36):
Yes, she has to follow the facts.

Speaker 14 (57:39):
And although she has opined and taken the next step
with some points I with the tea chests and overlaying
what the other women said in their experience of Rick Blum,
but she can only take it so far, and I
did wonder whether she might put it back in the
court of either the DPP to make the decision or

(57:59):
the police have to do further investigation and to say
that the investigation.

Speaker 6 (58:04):
Has not concluded.

Speaker 14 (58:05):
I felt that that was a very you know, there
was no real emphasis on it, But what she was
really saying is it was never properly investigated and there
are still things that need to be done. There are
still stones that need to be unturned, like, for example.

Speaker 6 (58:21):
Did they get married in Japan?

Speaker 14 (58:23):
You know, yes, she says that ship and that Marian
believed that she was married, But if you follow that through,
maybe there's further evidence, Maybe there are other witnesses, maybe
there were things that were heard and.

Speaker 6 (58:36):
It jobs people's memories.

Speaker 14 (58:39):
If Sally and Joni are there asking questions. So she
had to be circumspect in what she could say, and
I believe she was very measured in that. And yes,
it's disappointing not to hear a referral to the Director
of Public Prosecutions, but I sense that she believes that

(59:03):
there's still.

Speaker 6 (59:04):
Lines of inquiry to follow, and.

Speaker 14 (59:05):
There's still evidence to find, and that she doesn't want
it just to come back with a straight there's insufficient
evidence to charge.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yeah. Look, I think that's good in the sense that yes,
she did do that. I guess the problem after speaking
to Sally afterwards, is can we rely on South Wales Police,
with all their multiple priorities, to still prioritize this and
follow up any extra information.

Speaker 8 (59:32):
Yes.

Speaker 14 (59:32):
Look, New South Wales Police have been in the headlines
again for not understanding high profile cases and saying things
the chief, you know, the Commissioner herself saying crime of
passion for suspected domestic commicides.

Speaker 6 (59:46):
So that doesn't really.

Speaker 14 (59:46):
Give much confidence, particularly given everything that's gone on with
this case.

Speaker 6 (59:52):
So you know our New South Wales.

Speaker 14 (59:55):
Do we have confidence in them reigniting an investigation.

Speaker 6 (01:00:00):
No, And that's the problem.

Speaker 14 (01:00:03):
The problem is that they didn't look at it the
first time, the second time, the third time, the fourth time.
You have got a number of officers that do seem
she commended a number of officers, but I still felt.

Speaker 6 (01:00:13):
The June twenty twenty one police.

Speaker 14 (01:00:15):
Interview was a real missed opportunity and that's when they
could have put pressure on Rick Bloom and they didn't
understand who he was then, so do they understand that
now and are they going to put any added investigative
resources into the case or are they just going to
let it fit there in the unsolved homicide unit. But

(01:00:36):
you'll remember with Lynett Dawson they didn't investigator either and
it went to two coroners in quests and still there
wasn't a proper investigation. Well, Headley Thomas did that investigation
and it had to be a podcast similar to what
you've done with The Lady Vanishes, And I just hope
those other pieces of evidence can be uncovered.

Speaker 6 (01:00:56):
But I doubt Sally does have.

Speaker 14 (01:00:59):
Confidence because that's where it's been all this time, and
still they haven't really done very much.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
At least we know about Rick Blum. We have to
give them credit for that, but I mean, obviously it
had to be instigated by the podcast and the inquest
to get to that level. So so yes, it's great,
but yeah, it needs to continue. We're hoping also, you
know that by doing a book people who don't listen
to podcasts, or maybe it's the older people because obviously

(01:01:27):
in his world there'll be a lot of older people.
Other victims potentially or even witnesses may come forward, so
any sort of you know, expanding that network. But it
still does feel yet that we need somebody to go
that little bit further.

Speaker 6 (01:01:44):
Well let's hope.

Speaker 14 (01:01:45):
So, I mean, I still stand by the forty one
points a circumstantial evidence, and I still feel that it's
a very compelling case.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Invest the resources, do the extra digging, and yeah, let's
get this solved, because it can be. And when you
look at I don't know, I mean, I know you
looked at the Dawson case, and I won't go too
much into it again because we did last time. But
when you look at the evidence against Blam and the
evidence against Dawson and.

Speaker 14 (01:02:11):
Forty one points, I found they were only the significant ones,
like the coroner did when actually went the pertinent matters,
as did I.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
And that's what I mean.

Speaker 14 (01:02:22):
Who is genuinely committed to finding answers here and the
case built on circumstantial evidence.

Speaker 6 (01:02:31):
I mean.

Speaker 14 (01:02:31):
The other matter is that now there has been this finding,
some mister Rick Bloom will probably be signing a big
sigh of relief and feel that that's the end of
the matter and it's been kicked into.

Speaker 6 (01:02:44):
The long grass.

Speaker 14 (01:02:45):
And I really hope that that is not the sense,
I really do, because there is much more.

Speaker 6 (01:02:52):
That can be done with this case.

Speaker 14 (01:02:55):
Well, the coroner saying that Marion is deceased, that's another
big point for Sally because now she can get the
death certificate and then our certain information can be hopefully
can she can find other pieces of information because she
now can produce the death certificate.

Speaker 6 (01:03:12):
And I know there's a challenge around the name.

Speaker 14 (01:03:15):
And I noticed that the coroner kept referring to her
with the name change, you know, and saying Florabella and
Nalia Marion Remecau. Well, of course she lived her whole
life still months before she left as maret. So I
hope that more information can be retrieved by Sally, and

(01:03:36):
that's an important part of this process.

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
But it happened a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Well that's the thing, isn't That new evidence can also
trigger other mechanisms in the justice system that can get
them to revisit. And it's clear what has happened to
marry In though so, and I think even to the
coroner without saying as much, she does not feel like
it's as much of a mystery any more.

Speaker 14 (01:04:00):
No, we're saying the circumstances are troubling and knowing that
they are tied together. She doesn't believe what he has said,
but it's what you can prove, and that's ostensibly what
she was saying. It's what can be proven. If you've
that that's the money from her account to his, then
it's very clear evidence. But at times with cases you

(01:04:24):
have to take that leap with all these points.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
Can you say that the.

Speaker 14 (01:04:28):
Money transferred if Marian was encouraged to give the money
to Rick Bloom and that money transfers and then she disappears,
who's got means motive and opportunity And often we don't
have all the details with cases, so you know, but
forty one points is not anything to.

Speaker 6 (01:04:48):
Feel is inconsequential.

Speaker 14 (01:04:51):
It's a huge amount of evidence that points in direction
to Rick Blum, but I felt she was just hesitant
to go to the next stage.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
If it were to go to trial. Like with KRITS.

Speaker 14 (01:05:02):
Dawson's case, a lot of fission and evidence was presented.

Speaker 6 (01:05:06):
The judge was very thorough in.

Speaker 14 (01:05:09):
His summing up of his decision, and it always comes
back to that it's.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
The execution of it.

Speaker 14 (01:05:16):
If it was presented in the right way to a
judge and jury, it can make the right decision of
that next leap of who's on her timeline. They go
to England, they returned to Australia. Is married, he has
no so I told her I was married. That's when
it ended. And I believe that that's and times you

(01:05:41):
have to look at the probability of what's the chance
of it being somebody else who disappears Marian or she
disappeared herself versus he didn't get the outcome he wanted
and she challenged him. That's much more lightly but that
should be up to a court to decide.

Speaker 6 (01:06:00):
And maybe you know, in the best.

Speaker 14 (01:06:02):
Possible case, you've got new South Wales Police who are
following lines of investigation.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
And that they've been doing that in the background. I
can't talk to that.

Speaker 14 (01:06:12):
I would hope that they are doing that and that
they certainly do as the coroner requested, which is it's
a continuing it's an ongoing investigation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
So to recap. The coroner found that while she cannot
say how or where it happened, Marion is deceased. She
found that Rick Blum was in a relationship with Marion,
which is why she changed her name to Remicel, and
that he persuaded her to sell her house and took

(01:06:51):
possession of her belongings.

Speaker 8 (01:06:54):
That he lured her overseas with the promise of a
new life, that he played some role in her life
after she returned to Australia right before she vanished, and
that his lies and deception convinced the coroner that mister
Bloom does indeed no more than he is saying.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
She found it is up to police to decide whether
to charge rit Blum with perjury and she has referred
the case to the New South Wales Police Homicide Squad
to investigate further and hopefully solve the likely murder of
Marion Barter.

Speaker 8 (01:07:34):
We put some.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Questions to New South Wales Police media asking whether they
will charge rit Blum with anything. We also asked if
Sally would get an apology. This was their response.

Speaker 9 (01:07:47):
The New South Wales Police Force will consider the coronial findings.
The matter has been referred to the Homicide Squad Unsolved
Homicide Team for ongoing monitoring and assessment. One thousand dollars
reward remains on offer for information into the nineteen ninety
seven suspicious disappearance of Marion Barter. Anyone who may have

(01:08:09):
information that can assist strikeforced younger investigators is urged to
contact police.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Just a reminder, the crime Stoppers number is one eight hundred,
triple three, triple zero.

Speaker 8 (01:08:27):
We have written an account of this podcast from its inception,
tracing the remarkable twists and turns of a story you
can only believe because it's true, one that has spanned
eight decades and taken us across the world, discovering a
story unique in true crime podcasting. Marian was not even
listed as missing when we began. Publisher HarperCollins will launch

(01:08:51):
The Lady Vanishers the book on May fifteenth. If you're
after a copy of the first print or audiobook, it's
available for porder right now, and you can help support
Gulaine Dubois d'ar nois, the eighty nine year old who
was duped of her life savings by purchasing the book
from Schoolwork Supplies Educational resources and Books, who will donate

(01:09:15):
ten percent of every purchase to Julane's go fund me account.
We'll put a link on our Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
This is the final episode of The Lady Vanishers.

Speaker 8 (01:09:37):
That said, we'll stay across any major developments and let
you know about them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
You can still send us tips and information if you
know something. For all of us, it's been a labor
of love, involving thousands of hours outside our paid jobs,
pursuing a story that no one initially cared about, to
help a daughter convince that something had happened to her mother.

Speaker 8 (01:10:07):
From the beginning, we hoped to trigger an inquest into
Marian's disappearance, but first we had to convince the authorities
that she was missing and coax the police into action,
and find the clues that transformed this case from obscurity
to public awareness worldwide.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Thank you to the millions of people listening in Australia
and around the world.

Speaker 8 (01:10:33):
Thank you to all those who reached out with information,
tips and support.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Thank you to the brave women who came forward to
share their stories with us.

Speaker 8 (01:10:47):
Thank you Sally Laden.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Now there is only one thing left to say. From
me Alison Sandy.

Speaker 8 (01:10:58):
From me Brian seem.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
And from behind the scenes me Sally Eels.

Speaker 15 (01:11:03):
And from your audio guy Mark Wright, goodbye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
If you knew Marion or have any information about her
or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 8 (01:11:37):
Our website is Sevennews dot com dot au slash news
slash the Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here.
You can also send us an anonymous tip at the
Lady Vanishers dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to subscribe.
Please rate and review our series. It helps you Listeners
find us.

Speaker 8 (01:12:02):
Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Investigative journalist Brian Seymour.

Speaker 8 (01:12:09):
Writer and producer Sally Yields.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Sound design Mark.

Speaker 8 (01:12:14):
Wright, graphics Jason Blandford.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Translation and transcripts are Stelle Sanchez.

Speaker 8 (01:12:22):
The theme and much of the music by Nicholas Gasparini
at the Darkpiano dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Thanks again to Alliance Franseie.

Speaker 8 (01:12:34):
This is a seven News production.

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