June 12, 2023 • 58 mins
A stuttering and stumbling Ric Blum comes under pressure, as lawyers seek an explanation about comments he made for the first time in court. Plus - Mr Blum's response to the evidence of new witnesses.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher,
friend missing for twenty six years.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not sure if
it was intentional or there's something more foul afoot.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter. What I say, whether you find Marian Barter
dead or alive, I honestly believe somebody has that key
piece of information.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something. The lady vanishes, Episode forty nine.
I'm aliceon Sandy.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
And I'm Brian Seymour. We're back at Lismore for day two,
the afternoon session of this three day hearing, the latest
in the coronial inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter.
The questions returned to the evidence of Gilaine du Bois
d'An lois and again mister Bloom, in a hesitant and
(01:40):
stuttering voice, rejects everything that is put to him. No,
he did not suggest that they should marry in Balley
in two thousand and six. No, he did not tell
her they would start a new life together in Australia.
And no, he did not persuade her to withdraw some
sixty thousand euros.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Never. No, I know she claimed that, but that never happened.
I never went to a bank with her, like she said. Never.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
She says that you persuaded her to withdraw sixty thousand euros.
You deny that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yes, she never gave me a penny. In fact, every
time I went to her place, oftentimes I bought. I
bought the food and everything. She never never, never spent
a penny on me. You got my travel records right.
I was long gone before she sought her house.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
Well, I was coming to that, mister Blum. Did you
persuade her to sell her house so you could start
a new life abroad.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That's a lie. The reasons she was set in her
house was because her son's farm burnt out and she
was going to buy a farm in France. But I
was long back in Australia when that happened.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
There are some similarities, are there not? Between what Madame
Danoix has to say in comparison to what genitalg, Jeanette
Geffney Bowen and Manique Cornelius have said in relation to
you and them starting a new life.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Mister Bloom's barrister Matthew White raises an objection, but Coroner Thereensa.
O'Sullivan dismisses it, allowing mister Caunselton to repeat his question,
which he does.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Will you agree with me that there are similarities between
what you said to Madame Danois about starting a new
life together in comparison to what Janet Oldenburg, Jeanette Gefney
Bowen and Benique Cornelius have said about you saying to
them let's start a new life together.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I can't remember what happened. Explain to It's like a
disc who slips in my head. I I have terrible headaches,
don't remember.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Do you remember accurately helping Madame Danois pack some trunks
of her belongings to ship them to Australia.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
In a statement at one stage she said one trunk
and I don't know the statement and she see two trunks.
I flew back home with only the suitcases. I didn't
take any trunks.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
When you commenced your romantic relationship with Marion Barter in
nineteen ninety seven, it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Was an romantic She's a one who proposed itwas never romantic.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
You've admitted a sexual relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen
ninety seven, mister Blum.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yes, but that doesn't mean it was romantic.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Here the coroner intervenes to settle the distinction. Mister Bloom
seems to be making.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Let's call it sexual.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
I'm happy to do that. When you commenced your sexual
relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven, did you
seek to persuade her to sell her house?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
And did you seek to persuade her to sell her
house so that the two of you could start a
new life together in Europe?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
No, no, no.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
And did you suggest to Marion Barter in nineteen ninety
seven that she should resign from her job as a
teacher on the Gold Coast and to open up a
school in Europe.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's something she said that she will do.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
But did you undergo a ceremony of sorts with Marion
Barter in Europe, where she may believe she was married.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
How can you organize that? In Europe? You produce alls
birth certificate and all your You've got published bands for
the marry. You can't just get married like that.
Speaker 6 (05:22):
Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
the two of you should marry abroad?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No? No, no, I saw her as three times in my.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
Life, perhaps four, mister Blum, correct, excluding nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
No. I think I saw her and stayed at the
house once, and I saw her on two other days.
And that day she drove me to the best depot
and I returned home. I didn't stay the night.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
And of course you saw her at your place at Wollongbar. Sorry,
you also saw her at your place at Wollongba just
outside of Lismore on the road.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, when she when she brought when, no, she
didn't come. It was a man. It was a little
man who came in and delivered. And then I saw her.
I think she came when she came with another person
(06:28):
to pick up the boxes.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
you would start a new life together?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
In BALI No, sir, no, why why would I?
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Mister counselten suggests a morning adjournment.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
During the breaking proceedings. I chat to some of the
people who've turned up to watch. So this is She's
been following the podcast since the beginning and lives less
than an hour away in Mullumbimbi.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
It's fascinating being here in person. It's just made it
all feel very real. It's interesting to see him in person,
and I feel very emotional and very just stressed actually
listening to him talk and thinking about Marian and what
(07:20):
may or may not have happened to her.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
What do you think about him? Like, are you buying
this whole?
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I think he's just a complete liar, and I don't
believe a word of what he's saying. And I think
that he's proven himself to be a complete opportunist and
corn artist, and so I don't know how anyone can
believe what he's anything that he's saying. It's all seems
like lies to me. And when he talks, it seems
(07:49):
like he's, you know, using a speech pattern to buy
time and to avoid and I could just see right
through all of it. The way that things have unfolded
during the course of and because of this podcast has
just been so incredible and gripping.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
After the break, the evidence of the woman we know
as Charlotte is raised. A statement she made to Belgium
police in twenty twelve has been tended to the court.
She won't be giving evidence in person because she wants
to keep her name private. We're continuing to use the pseudonym.
(08:37):
Although her true identity is revealed in court. We can
say that she is the wife of Rick Blum's deceased cousin.
Mister Cassadin puts to mister Blum that he traveled to
Belgium in February twenty twelve to meet with Charlotte, and
that they later traveled together to Bali. Several questions and
(09:01):
mister Blum's responses are always rambling and full of stuttering
and bumbling. He mentions an inheritance from his mother and
how somehow his cousin, a banker, was involved. He accepts
that he did not go to his cousin's funeral in
July twenty eleven, but did travel to Belgium just seven
(09:23):
months later to see his cousin's grieving widow, a woman
he had only seen once in the previous twenty years,
at an aunt's funeral.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Is it true, mister Blum, that shortly after your cousin
passed that you contacted his widow by telephone?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was was regarding the money of my mother that
was left with her hostpan.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Did you disclose to Charlotte and your conversations leading up
to your visit in February twenty twelve that you were
married to Diane?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She knew she knew that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Charlotte most definitely, by her account, did not know that
he was married. Mister Blum also denies that he went
to Belgium in early twenty twelve with the intent to
seduce his cousin's widow, nor did he agree with suggestions
that he persuaded her to withdraw one hundred thousand euro
(10:21):
so they could buy a property in Bali together. Instead,
he claims that Charlotte had at least six or seven properties.
Then he thought that perhaps she could consider returning the
money left by his mother.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Now you say you had no intentions of seducing Charlotte
in February or March of twenty twelve, do you, mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Oh? Or No.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Did you say to Charlotte that you would buy a
house in Indonesia together for the two of you to
live together.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
No?
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Why did you go to Bali with Charlotte?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Because because the airline have an offer from Amsterdam and
she was interesting people everyone talked of Buddy and she
says you wanted to go and see the place.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
Had you been to Bali prior to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yes, I went there to Buddy before.
Speaker 6 (11:15):
On How many occasions had you been to Bali prior
to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Two or three times?
Speaker 6 (11:20):
One with Janet Oldenburg? Correct?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Yes, correct in.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
Nineteen ninety nine, once in twenty eleven for a wedding. Correct, Yes,
What other times have you been to Balley? Mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I went to Bali earlier once twice I went there
for a holiday.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Did you own property in Bali?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Never have?
Speaker 6 (11:41):
In twenty twelve, did you tell Charlotte that you owned
property in Bali?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
No? Why would I do that?
Speaker 6 (11:46):
You say you didn't.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
No.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
Did you persuade Charlotte to withdraw one hundred thousand euros
from her accounts in Belgium? I did in order to
purchase a property in Bali with.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You I didn't personally ask for anything. I just said
that I have that receipt from her husband and that
I would have liked maybe she would deposit, considering that
she had I don't know, at least six or seven properties.
Considering all that that she could be annoyed that she knew,
(12:19):
but the letter of her husband that she would probably
maybe consider give me back the money of my mother.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
Did Charlotte give you any money in February or March
twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
When we departed, she said she had the money for me,
So I took that she she they were safe in
the room of the hotel, and she put all of
her precious things and the money in the safe and
she was the only one with the access to whatever
number it was to get to it.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
And was this a safe in the hotel room in Bali?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (12:55):
And how much money did you understand was in this
safe in the hotel?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I understood she had one hundred thousand.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Dollars one hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
One hundred thousand yeah, in Bali? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:07):
And did she give you that one hundred thousand euros?
Because of the issue you've just given evidence about relating
to and perhaps the Sun.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
No, she gave me an envelope when I was leaving,
and I realized it was only half because only fifty
thousand euros, I was not so happy about it. It's
only after I let that I realized that it was
only half the money. The money that I declare at
perse airport when I arrived and was stolen from me
later on the gold course when I went to change it.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Just so I'm very clear, mister Blum, you accept that
Charlotte gave you fifty thousand euros and that you entered
Australia with fifty thousand euros exactly? Would you agree with me?
For you, at least fifty thousand euros is a substantial
sum of money.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
Do you understand why it was? She did not transfer
that sum of money to your bank account?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Which bank?
Speaker 6 (13:58):
The bank account you held with the Commonwealth Bank in
twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
No, she I don't know. She went to her bank
withdrew the money. That's what she told me, and she
told me to give me, But in fact I was
only given a novelope with fifty thousand euros.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Do you know why she felt the need to travel
from Belgium to Bali with such a substantial amount of
money instead of just transferring it to you from Belgium
to your account in Australia.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I know that was the way she did it. No, no, no, no,
you know.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Could it be, mister Blam.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Maybe it's because she already thought of giving me fifty
thousand euro and therefore she didn't want to declare the bank. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Could it be, mister Blum, that you suggested to Charlotte
that she withdraw one hundred thousand euros from her account
in Belgium and to take it to Bali to purchase
a property.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
No, no, mister Bloom appears to have very good recall
for what he says he did and did not do.
Mister Castleton questions him about the twenty five thousand euros
worth of jewelry Charlotte says he took from her, which
he denies. Despite being owed one hundred thousand euros, Mister
(15:20):
Bloom says he accepted fifty thousand euros in cash in
an envelope, which was then stolen from him at Pacific
Fair shopping center on the Gold Coast, where he planned
to change the euros to Australian dollars. When reporting the
alleged twenty twelve robbery to police, mister Bloom told them
his family in Europe gave him the money for a
(15:42):
prostrate operation. That is confusing, the same fifty thousand euros,
according to mister Bloom, seems to have had several different purposes.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Now you've given three versions, mister Blum, about the fifty
thousand euros you declared on a rival to Perth on
the twenty ninth of March twenty twelve. First you say
on oath it's an inheritance. Secondly you say on oath
today it was the compensation owed to you by your
cousin and perhaps his son. And you have given a
version to Queensland Police that it was for a prostate operation.
(16:15):
Mister Blum, which of the three is correct?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I object?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Matthew White, the barrister representing mister Bloom, raises another objection.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Your honor.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
The evidence today, in my submission, was that it was
an inheritance. It wasn't compensation, and it wasn't owed by someone.
It was money that had been invested, mister Blum said,
by the mother. There was a receipt for the money
he gave. That receipt and in discussions in some form
it was suggested that she consider that he be given
(16:45):
some of that inheritance, and he said he eventually got
the fifty thousand euro In balley, mister Counslon makes the
point that he is only putting to mister Bloom what
he has previously said.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
When Bloom responds, he says that maybe there is a
misunderstanding over the meaning of the French word compensasson. Yet
there is a separate word in French for inheritance, les detage.
Mister Castleeden then points out that mister Bloom's wife, Diane,
gave evidence under oath that she was completely unaware of
(17:19):
any inheritance for her husband. As the afternoon wears on,
so does mister Casseleden, turning to mister Bloom's relationship with
Glaine Dubois d'An lois in two thousand and six, did
you have.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Any discussions with Jelaine of getting engaged or getting married,
mister Blum. No, no discussions whatsoever of being engaged to marry.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
And you're quite certain of that today that you never
discussed engagement with Jelaine d'An noises. You'll need to keep
your voice up, please, mister Blum.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I don't remember this. No.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
I want to suggest to you that you would remember that,
wouldn't you, because you were married to Diane at the time.
I want to show you a document, please, mister Blum.
You can read French. Yes, take a moment to read
quietly to yourself the document I have opened for you.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
It is the document Allison provided to police the previous
day when they took a statement from her.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
And you see there it's a document that says, Julaane Danois.
You see that at the top and do you see
the next line is very happy to announce her engagement
to Frederic D'HEADEVERI do you see that? Do you see that?
Mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Ah?
Speaker 6 (18:28):
Yes, yes, rather suggests, does it not that Julaine Danois
thought she was engaged to Frederic D'HEADAVERI correct.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I can't injudice, Yes, but I never seen that.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
And I want to suggest to you that Julaane Danois
provided that document recently, and then it has been provided
to those assisting her honor today. Yes, were you engaged
to be married to Julaane Danois in two thousand and six?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
No?
Speaker 6 (18:53):
I want to suggest to you you were, mister Blum,
and that your denials are alie.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
No, I've never seen that notice.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Did you have any discussions in May and June of
two thousand and six with Julaine Danoix as to where
you may hold an engagement party? No, so you're very clear,
mister Blum. I'm suggesting that your evidence today of denying
having any discussions with Julaane Danois about engagement to marry
are false.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yes, you agree with me. Do you never seen that?
I've never participated or anything of that. That's all. That's
all I know. I don't remember such a thing, never
seen it.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Never could you have been caught out in a lie,
mister Blum, about your denials of being engaged to marry
Julaane Danoix.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I was never engaged. How could I be engaged? I
was never never engaged. I was never never engaged.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Were you engaged to Florabella Remichel in nineteen ninety seven,
mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
No? No.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Now is the time for you to be full and
frank about your interactions with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven.
Is there anything you wish to say that you have
not already said in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
What what could I You.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
Don't know what became of Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I myself believe that she's still alive, but I don't
know anything about where she is, or abouts or nothing
at all.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
Your honor. That concludes my examination.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan has some of her own questions.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Thank you, mister Castle and mister Bloom. Why do you
believe Marian is still alive.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Because she I can't tell you exactly when. But in
a conversation before she went to England, she said that
she wanted to separate from her family. She didn't want
anything to do with any mum of her family. She
was a bit of a strange person, all right.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Can I just ask you where you were when she
said that to you?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
When she said that to me, it was in her place.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
In her house, in her house, yes, whereabouts?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Was that in Queensland? Our country? Remember the name of
the suburb. She said she had enough of her family
and she didn't want she she was. I explained to
mister White before that she was strange in a way,
that whatever she did, he was strange in the way
(21:41):
she dressed, She was strange.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Again the coroner inter.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Runs'll cut you off there, mister Bloom. It's not really
assisting in what I need to find out.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That brief interchange may prove crucial, as you will soon hear.
It's now the of Sally Leyden's barrister Bradley Smith, to
ask mister Blum a few questions. Mister Smith is not
in the court at Lismore. He's in his office in Sydney,
appearing via video link.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
At any point in two thousand and six, did you
have any interest in poisons.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
As you know, I was interested in poison. No, no,
not in poison. I don't know anything about poison, and
all I know is like everybody else has a domestic poison.
But my interest are always reading that history history, yes,
(22:42):
but poisoned no well.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Glaine Danoix gave evidence yesterday that in two thousand and
six you would often discuss with her your interest in poisons.
Do you say that was false?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
It's a lie. Yes.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Also got evidence yesterday that you persuaded her to withdraw
funds from her bank account, and then on each OC
case and she did withdraw funds, you attended the bank
with her. That's true. Isn't it.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Never been in a bank with her? Never? Never?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Sorry?
Speaker 8 (23:11):
Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yes, it's an honest answer. The only place I went
when we there was what they call an agance. That's
the only place.
Speaker 8 (23:24):
Given in a currency exchange bureau.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
No argance. It is somebody that you invest money in
in shares. It's not actually cash involved, it's all paper.
You can't do anything banking without any record at the bank,
especially in Europe there, whatever you do with the bank,
you got to be able to justify with your V
(23:48):
eighteen number and whatever.
Speaker 8 (23:50):
What would you go to a share writeing with Gelaine Demoi?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah? I went there because she told me that's what
she was. I wanted to go with her, but I
didn't participate in anything. She just told me towards agen,
that's all.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
So you stayed at that house for how long I stayed.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
At her house About roughly a fortnight, But I was
staying the university. I only was visiting her, and I
stayed there a few days.
Speaker 8 (24:20):
And on one of those few days when you visited her,
she said she was going to a share agent and
you went with her. Is that your evidence?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Why?
Speaker 8 (24:31):
Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I don't know. She just you know, you got for
a coffee or whatever. I just I just went with her.
But there's no transaction possible there or.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
Was the name of the share agent Damien and sons
don't remember? And you didn't go to the share agent
with miss Daranoix because you had persuaded her to exchange
shares that she owned for cash.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You can't do that. You can't, so regulations set up
there in brassets you can't do that.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
So the answer is no. Sorry is the answer?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
No, Yes, you can't do that.
Speaker 8 (25:12):
And it's correct. Isn't it that you suggested to miss
dear Noir that she should apply for an international driver's
license before moving to Australia with you?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
No?
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Well, in two thousand and six, you are familiar with
international driver's licenses, weren't you? Sorry, in two thousand and six,
you were familiar with international driver's licenses, weren't you?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
All I knew is to get an international driver's license.
I got every time I left Australia, I took the
I went to the on NRM and got an international
driver's license. That's what people do.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
And you'd agree with me. You've left Australia numerous times,
haven't you. Yes, So you've applied for an international driver's
license numerous times.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
So you were very familiar in two thousand and six
with international driver's licenses.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Weren't you in Australia.
Speaker 8 (25:59):
Well, it's the isn't it that you obtained an international
driver's license in the name of Fernande Ramakal in Luxembourg? Correct? Yes,
And that was a false international driver's license. Correct.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Well, I've just been this. It's it's not government, it's
not an official thing. It's done by by autokler.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
But you weren't Fernande Ramacal when you applied for that
international driver's license.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Were you?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Yes, you use Fernande Ramakall's identity to obtain that international
driver's license correct, Yes, and then you use the international
driver's license to obtain a Queensland driver's license in that
name correct, correct. So, and you did those things prior
to two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Correct, don't remember.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
I want to suggest to you that again, in light
of what we've just discussed, that you suggested to Glain
Dan Why in two thousand and six that she should
obtain an international driver's license before moving to Australia with you,
Do you agree No?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I never discussed driver's license with Gilen.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
And I want to suggest to you that you also
persuaded Marian Barter to apply for an international driver's license
in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramicol in nineteen
ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Do you agree No, she organized that with her dentist.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
Pausing briefly here, we first told you in episode fourteen
that Marian had a dentist confirm her photograph ID for
her passport application, but we didn't know that this same
dentist was also asked by Marion to affirm her international
driver's license. This is apparently new information we're hearing for
the first time. What else might mister Bloom reveal?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
But at the same time she did that in nineteen
ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in the
name Fernande Knocholas Ramacol. Correct.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yes, I had four setain time until it disappeared. It
was stolen from me or I lost it. I don't know,
because in the previous time I can't remember if it's
in Ballina or barron By. I who repeats a question, Please.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Let's hear that again.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
It was stolen from me or I lost it. I
don't know because in the previous time I can't remember
if it's in Ballina or Barron Bay. I one more time,
because in the previous time, I can't remember if it's
in Ballina or Barron By.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
I, Ballena or Byron Bay. Rick Bloom lives in Ballina.
When he was in a relationship with Marion in nineteen
ninety seven, he lived at Wollongba. Marion lived at Southport.
He claims they met up on the Gold Coast. We've
(29:00):
identified fifteen different places that mister Bloom has lived in
in Australia in four states. He has not lived in
or ever mentioned visiting Byron Bay. It's interesting too that
he would mention it during this line of questioning. Marian
was reported missing in Byron Bay after her daughter Sally,
discovered her life's savings were being withdrawn from her bank
(29:23):
account in Byron Bay, including a final large withdrawal of
eighty thousand dollars. For such a transaction, she would have
needed identification. Her account was in the name Marion Barter,
but her new legal name was Florabella Remichel. If there
was any potential confusion over the new identity, Marian had
(29:43):
both a passport and an international driver's license in her
new name with her photo and or signature. We know
she had a driver's license when she applied for her
new passport because she ticked the box for ID documents
and wrote int license. So was Rick Bloom in Byron
Bay Was what he just said a misstep? Did he
(30:07):
simply make a mistake or did he just inadvertently reveal
a crucial piece of evidence? Now mister Smith turns to
another perplexing Mistruth. Mister Bloom has committed to the official record.
Speaker 8 (30:26):
Do you see there an incoming passenger card, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:30):
And you see in the bottom half of the right
hand side the letters see inside a black circle resident
returning to Australia. Yes, and then the country you spent
most time abroad? Do you see that?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:41):
Do you agree you filled out this card?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (30:44):
And you see the date twenty ninth of March twenty
twelve what it says, yes, which is the date I
was just putting to you earlier. Yes, and you see
that you wrote the country where you spent most time
abroad as Germany.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (30:57):
Now, if you spend your time in Belgium and France,
what did you write on this card? It spent most
of your time in Germany.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Where I spent some time in Germany, yes, but I
can't remember.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Well, do you remember I asked you before? Did you
spend time in any other countries?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
But I went to Germany because I had to catch
my flight to return home. I spent time in Liege,
which is a city in Belgium, and from there I
took the trend to Frankfurt, where I caught my flag
back home.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
Do you agree that that doesn't explain why you've written
that you spend most of your time abroad in Germany.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, I can't give you an explanation. It's the explanation
spend time in Belgium. I spent time in Germany, Yes,
I did. What's so special about.
Speaker 8 (31:54):
It's the explanation that you had to fall of one
hundred thousand euros and you were a tempting to cover
your tracks by not stating that you'd spend most of
your time in Belgium.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I spend time because I have people to see, my family,
to see her. I spend time in the various places.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
What was what?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I don't know. I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Throughout this inquest, Salley's lawyer Brad Smith has raised some
crucial points through his questions and he's about to do
it again.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
At the time Marion Barter applied for an international driver's
license in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Remaco in
nineteen ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in
the name Fernande Knoculus Remaco.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Correct, Yes, and that was stolen from me. I never
never used it. That was in my pocket and it
was I don't know what was tolen or I lost it.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
I want to suggest to you, but.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
With what happened, I believe that she took it because license.
If I remember from last time, the license was renewed
and I never never renew it.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
I want to suggest to you that you've persuaded Marian
Bartered to apply for that international driver's license on the
pretext that she would become Missus Ramacal in your new
life together overseas.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Do you agree, No, sir, she arranged all these things
were arranged with her dentist which I never met.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
And is it correct that you just to put to
you squarely the evidence you've just given that Marian took
your Queensland driver's license in the name Fernande Naculist Ramical
and arranged her international driver's license with a dentist without
your knowledge is a lie?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
No, it's not.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
Is it correct that you last saw Gelaine dear Nois
in September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yes, I can't remember, she.
Speaker 8 (33:48):
Says, the last time she saw you was in September
two thousand and six. Does that sound right to you?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
It may be the case, but I don't remember, and
you accept it. I think I answered the question already
to mister Castleton.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
Yes, what you accepted from mister Castleton was that you
returned to Australia on the fourteenth of September two thousand
and six.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Correct, Yeah, And.
Speaker 8 (34:09):
I want you to assume for me that your incoming
passenger car when you return to Australia on the fourteenth
of September two thousand and six. The answer to the
question are you bringing into Australia ten thousand dollars or
more in Australian or foreign currency equivalent. You circled yes.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
I want to suggest to you that the more than
ten thousand Australian dollars or equivalent of cash that you
were bringing into Australia was money you had stolen from
Gallain dan Mois. No, no, no, where was the more
than ten thousand dollars you brought back into Australia on
the fourteenth of September two thousand and six from.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Because from my family every time, every time I came
back to Australia, always hard to set an amount of
money coming from my family, but I never always always
declare every everything, always.
Speaker 8 (35:04):
Well, you accepted. In April last year, I said to you,
is your evidence that you were collecting about one thousand
Australian dollars from the account at Ahman in Europe? And
you said, I said before, I sometimes take more. Yes,
And I said, but on average, And you said on
average on average. I remember that I declared in Sydney
once seventeen thousand dollars. And I remember that I declared
in Perth once, No, seventeen thousand euros, sorry, And I
(35:26):
declared once in Perth fifty thousand euros, I think. And
that was the last bit of my inheritance. Do you
say to her honor that these funds you declared in
September two thousand and six were part of your inheritance?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yes, that's all it was. Is that true, mister Blom, Yes,
it is true. I was fortunate.
Speaker 8 (35:45):
And did you open a safety deposit box at the
Commonwealth Bank six days later? On the twenty eighth of
September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I can't remembers date. At the common Worst Bank, I
had a number up with because there were lots of like,
there were lots of people stealing things. And I have
an envelope which with the title of the house, the
thejurary of my family, and a few mementos, and an
(36:17):
envelope that was about twelve to fifteen centimeters wide and
probably twenty centimeters long. You can't put a lot of
things in. And because I had that envelope, and later
on a security box or whatever you call it become
available and I was given to me.
Speaker 8 (36:36):
I want to suggest to you that you opened a
safety deposit box or the Commonwealth Bank six days after
you return from the trip where you spent time with
Galine to deposit money. You would stolen. Do you agree?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And how do you go through? You are at the
airport and you're going in one of those cabin where
everything is you you photograph it. You go in one
of the scanners. And if I had anything that I
didn't declare, then now I'd be reported. You can't be
(37:10):
you can't. I don't know how you travel, but you
can't come to Australia these days with going it's an
automatic cabin that you walk in and they know everything
you've got on you. I don't know if you're familiar
with the process, but that's the way it is, and
(37:32):
that's the way I arrived in purse and I declare,
declare the money I had, because you can't do otherwise.
They know before even you declare, they know you've got it.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
After almost five hours, the day is drawing to a close.
Mister Smith turns his attention to Marion Barter.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Arising from the evidence of Gelaine dar Noi that you
persuaded her to withdraw money from her bank account and
the evidence of that you persuade had her to withdraw
money from her bank account. Did you persuade Marian Barter
to withdraw funds from her bank account? Between August and
October nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
No, sir, never had a penny from Marion Barter.
Speaker 8 (38:12):
Never did you persuade her to withdraw eighty thousand dollars
from her bank account on or about the fifteenth of
October nineteen ninety seven in Barron Bay. No, sir, in
the period August to October nineteen ninety seven, did you
deceive Marian Barter in any way for your own financial advantage?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Sir?
Speaker 8 (38:28):
When you gave evidence earlier that Marian told you she
wanted to separate from her family, that was a lie,
wasn't it, sir? And you agree with me. You've been
asked on a number of occasions previously in this inquest
if you know what happened to Marian Barter.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (38:42):
And you never before today said anything to that effect
that she wanted to separate from her family in answer
to any of these questions, did.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You, because that's the conversation she had.
Speaker 8 (38:53):
Thank you, your honor, No further questions.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Mister Smith has hit upon a crucial point which the
other lawyers in the court will soon grasp. It is
the end of day two. Rick Bloom has one more
day before the Coroner.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's another crisp winter's morning in Lismore as people again
packed the public gallery at the local Court for day
three of this tranch of proceedings. At ten am, hundreds
of people are waiting online for live streaming to begin
for what's expected to be the final day of evidence,
although of course we've heard that before this time. Rick
(39:36):
Blum appears via video link, seated beside his council Matthew White.
He's wearing a zipped up tracksuit jacket gray and blue
with a white stripe. While he looks tired, he appears
more comfortable than he did yesterday when he was seated
in the witness stand in the courtroom. Questioning begins with
(39:58):
Adam Caussenden taking up point raised two days earlier by
witness Andre Flumm. She'd said, mister Blum or she knew
him Frederic de Heniveri maintained a bank account in Belgium
when she knew him in twenty ten. Mister Blum responded
to a series of questions with a lot of stumbling
(40:20):
and stuttering. It's a very drawn out process, but ultimately
he denies any suggestion that he had held any bank
account in any part of Europe since around nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
I want to come now to some evidence you gave
yesterday in answer to a question from Her Honor.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
Suddenly the reporters and people in the public gallery are attentive,
as though they can tell there is something important about
to be raised.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
At the conclusion of my examination of you yesterday, I
asked you this question, mister Blum, would you like to
say anything further in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter?
And you answered no, what could I say? I then
asked you you don't know what became of Marion Barter,
and you answered, I, myself believe that she's still alive.
(41:13):
That's what I believe. But I don't know anything about
what she did, or whereabouts, or nothing at all. Then
Her Honor asked you, mister Blum, why do you believe
Marian is still alive, to which you answered because she
I can't tell you exactly when. But and in a
conversation before she went to England, she said that she
wants to separate from her family. She didn't want anything
(41:36):
to do with any member of her family. She was
a bit of a strange person, to which Her Honor
then asked you. Can I ask you where were you
when she said that to you? You answered, when she
said that to me, it was in her place. Her
honor then asked you in her house? You responded yeah,
(41:56):
And then her honor asked you whereabouts?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Was that?
Speaker 6 (42:00):
You then respond in Queensland. I can't remember the name
of the suburb. But she said that she's had enough
of her family. Do you remember giving that evidence yesterday,
mister Blum.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
Mister Bloom does remember giving that evidence. So Adam Casselton
probes further.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
Can I ask you, are you able to give more
detail about which visit you had with Marion in nineteen
ninety seven when she said those matters to you? Was
it the first occasion you met with her in Southport,
the second occasion there in Southport or the third occasion
that you met with her?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I can't remember.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
And are you sure that she said those words to
you in Queensland or could it have been to you
here in New South Wales?
Speaker 4 (42:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
No, No, it was it was It was in Queensland.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
And how did that conversation come about, mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
It was a genial, genial general discussion. But I can't
remember you.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
Can't give any more context as to how was she
came to say those matters about abandoning her family.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
No, no, no, no, would you agree with me?
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Throughout the course of your evidence in this inquest, you
have rarely descended into that level of detail in relation
to your interaction with Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
What do you want me to say?
Speaker 6 (43:19):
Well? Do you agree or disagree with what I've just
suggested to you, mister Blum, I just.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Said, remember that particular thing that she said, But that
was all I wasn't, you know, I wasn't particularly particularly
interested in anything of that kind, So I I found
(43:44):
I can't remember she made that that point that I
thought was probably a bit a bit strange.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
Mister Bloom denies suggestions that the new evidence he has
suddenly remembered about a conversation with Marion Barter is a lie.
He becomes befuddled and again stutters and stumbles repeatedly when
mister Casselon asks him whether he realizes how important this
information is.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I can understand that, but I can't. I can't, I can't.
I don't so many years ago, I don't remember.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
I have to ask why you did not volunteer that
information to New South Wales Police when you first spoke
to them about Marian's disappearance in June of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
One, because because they never do, they never ask anything
about it. Then I just don't remember.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Mister Bloom, you knew in June of twenty twenty one
that the police wished to question you in relation to
your interaction with Marion Barter because she was a missing person.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (45:02):
And if I can return to my earlier question, in
those circumstances, why did you not volunteer the information which
you have disclosed here to the New South Wales Police.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Will spare you any more of the bumbling responses because
it goes on for some time. Mister Bloom does not
have a definitive answer as to why he suddenly announced
yesterday for the very first time that Marion Barter told
him in nineteen ninety seven that she wanted to separate
herself from her family, Yet he denies that he is
(45:36):
making it up. Mister Cassitin pointedly asks why such a
conversation was not mentioned during mister Bloom's interview with police
on September fourteenth, twenty twenty one, and why he did
not mention it when prompted during court proceedings on February sixteen,
twenty twenty two, and why he again failed to reveal
(45:59):
the information when asked in April twenty twenty two about
whether he had any more information about Marion Barter. As
he struggles to explain all of this, Rick Bloom appears
to highlight his supposed cognitive decline by stuttering, I don't remember.
That's how things work in my head. I do things
(46:21):
now that I won't remember. This afternoon, I don't remember,
and sometimes I remember. It continues along like this for
a while before mister Casselton says this.
Speaker 6 (46:35):
Could the reason you disclose that information only yesterday be
because you know more about the disappearance of Marion Barter
than you have previously let on, and you let down
your guard yesterday. I suggest that you do know more
than you are letting on about the whereabouts of Marion Barter. No, sir, no,
I want to suggest to you, mister Bloom, that you
know more about the whereabouts of Marion Barter than you
(46:57):
have been letting on to her honor throughout the course
of her honors in quest. Do you accept that?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
No, sir, no, I don't. I don't know anything anything
about Marion Butter.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
I have no further questions.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Once Adam Casselton sits down selling Leyden's lawyer, brand Smith
again has questions, beginning with an invitation to mister Bloom
to provide an answer.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
I asked a similar question in April last year. Mister Bloom,
if you do know anything, this is your time to answer.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I would have done it a long time ago. You
put me under such pressure.
Speaker 8 (47:35):
I don't remember so so you made up that evidence.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
I never made up a story. But my but my
head doesn't walk like yours. I have problems.
Speaker 8 (47:45):
You know I act for Marion Barter's daughter. Yes, you
know that she has been looking for her mother since
nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Mister Bloom responds with more stuttering.
Speaker 8 (47:55):
So you can't provide any more information as to what
happened to Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
I can't prove how would I know she was living
her life? I wasn't seeing what do you want me
to see?
Speaker 5 (48:14):
It is here that questioning ends. More documents attended before
the court is adjourned. This public hearing is over, but
the inquest is not. Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan's findings are still
to be delivered at a date to be advised.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Once the public gallery has emptied and media crews have dispersed,
I catch up with Christina, who, as I've mentioned, has
come from the UK for this in quest about We
chat about what we've heard and seen over the past
few days.
Speaker 9 (48:50):
I think today the pretty big thing was that what
he's claiming about what Marian said in nineteen ninety seven
about wanting to disown a farm or not have anything
to do with them, which of course we know he
hasn't mentioned before, and as far as I know, in
twenty twenty one when he gave his statement to the police,
(49:11):
he didn't have those medical issues that have come on
since then. So it's very questionable my view.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
They talk about cognitive decline, right, but it does seem
to be quite switched on still.
Speaker 9 (49:23):
Well, it seems to fluctuate, doesn't it. Whether that's out
of convenience.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Well more with the voice that fluctuates. But he seems
to understand everything that's been put to him, right, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (49:34):
He understands all the questions, and some he's able to
answer extremely clearly. Usually when there's a backstory to be told,
I find there isn't much speech impediment there when there's
a story to be told. Ultimately, this is fact finding,
isn't it. And the facts that needed, the evidence is needed.
(49:57):
Clearly that's not going to come from.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Him, no, and all we can do is present the
evidence as we have with all or as the the
coroner's team has via New South Wales Police, and put
that to him, give him a chance to explain it
way up what seems more probable. And I mean I
(50:20):
guess within a lot of criminal cases and coroner's cases
that's what happens.
Speaker 9 (50:27):
That must be why the coroner wants to hear all
this additional information about these other women that have come
forward with what's happened to them, because it creates a
bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
The issue is here is that more information keeps coming out,
but we can't definitely keep going with the coronial inquest
when it's two years, Like it's been two years. That's
a long time.
Speaker 9 (50:47):
And if you just think of Sally and the effect
that it has on her, it would be really good
if there was some sort of end insight, not necessarily closure,
but some end to this part of the proceeding so
she can move on with the next stage.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well, that's right, because the coroner does have the opportunity
to refer it to the DPP if she thinks there's
an indetable offense in relation to Marian's disappearance. So there
are avenues that need to proceed. I mean, an inquest
isn't going to conclude this investigation.
Speaker 9 (51:24):
Absolutely, and you can only hope that some further action
is taken after this and that there's some justice for Marian.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
As she may recall, Christina was an avid listener of
the podcast and quickly became a helper, doing whatever she
could to help out with investigations in the UK. Recently,
she's been writing letters to people in Burwash who live
in the lane where Rick Blum then Frederick de HEAVERI
lived with his wife, Diane and his children in the
(51:54):
nineteen eighties, and amazingly she got a response from someone
who remembers them.
Speaker 9 (52:00):
She was very helpful and her memories of Rick and
Diane from that time if you think that was the
mid nineteen eighties, those memories were very vivid and it
was almost as if she had been dying to talk
to someone about this because she always wondered what became
of them, and because she had some concerns about his
(52:21):
behavior and his treatment of Diane. I think she was
concerned and she didn't know what became of them. So firstly,
she was pleased to hear that Diane was okay for
her welfare, and she was surprised that they were still
married okay.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
And when you say concerns, why was she concerned, like
what evidence had been presented to her that Diane was
being controlled?
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Well.
Speaker 9 (52:49):
Her observation of the family dynamic was that Rick had
a lot of control over things within the family, down
to the point of he would only put a limited
amount of petrol in the car, so Diane couldn't travel
very far. He only gave her a small amount of
money to spend pocket money. He did all the shopping,
(53:11):
He bought all the children's clothes. She wasn't able to
buy the children's clothes. So she was living in isolation really,
and her life was the children. And she expressed to
this woman that she was unhappy and she wanted to
get out of the marriage, but because of threats from
(53:32):
Rick that she would never see the children again, or
that he would find them and take away the children,
that she had no choice.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Some four years after the head of Aries moved away,
this woman received a Christmas card from Diane. She remembers
feeling relieved because Diane mentioned that she'd seen her parents,
whom she had missed greatly while in England. Bizarrely, the
woman still had the envelope that the card came in,
with the postmark from Tasmania. Christina passed on the information,
(54:10):
but the woman wants to remain anonymous, and she hasn't
been responding to emails lately. I turn our attention back
to the inquest and wonder aloud, what might happen next.
Speaker 9 (54:22):
It's just so surreal that we're here listening to this
after all that time, and just the huge amount of
information that's come out. It's quite overwhelmeding, really, isn't it.
Some of it doesn't even seem real. But you have
to step back and remember this is real, this is
(54:43):
what happens, and clearly something has happened to Marian that's
very serious. And I think it's just the thing to
remember is that there's human beings involved with this, human hearts.
You know, this affects people's lives, and I think some
of that can get lost sometimes in all the facts,
(55:06):
But it's good to step back and think that.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
I just gotta remember that absolutely. And you know, I
was thinking, you know, people with Rick Lamy's looking so pathetic,
I guess, and I don't mean that in the sense
of sad and pathetic. When he was there yes day,
an old man and he's stuttering and spluttering and everything,
and he's eighty three. And then I think of these
(55:30):
other women, Gilaine and Andre Flum, both in their nineties.
He just up in the middle of the night to
give evidence against him, particularly Glaine, who was obviously in
love with him.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (55:45):
It's sad, isn't it. There's some sad stories behind this,
and it obviously still affects them now and it's still
in their memory. So there is that element of sadness
that they've been hurt or damaged in some way his actions.
And there's potentially more.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
They all have, haven't there. And that's the thing. Their
stories are consistent, but he is not with their stories,
if you know what I mean. He's the only one
saying that's not true and calling them all layers.
Speaker 9 (56:13):
Yeah, and what are the chances of that that all
these women are lying and have made up all these stories? Because,
as he said, that's the kind of women they are.
Don't know what that means, but it's clear that they
are nice, good people who didn't deserve that treatment.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
As soon as we hear from the coroner, will let.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (56:50):
If you knew Marian or have any information about her
or who we'reabouts. We'd love to hear from you. Our
website is sevenews dot com dot au news slash the
Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here. You
can also send us an anonymous tip at the Lady
Vanishers dot org. If you like what you're hearing, don't
(57:15):
forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series. It
helps new listeners find us. Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy,
investigative journalist Brian Seymour, writer and producer Sally Yields, Sound
design Mark Wright, graphics Jason Blandford, translation and transcripts Estelle Sanchez,
(57:38):
voice actors Aurelli and Ritter, Veronique Durcell and the Brisbane
seven Newsroom. The theme and much of the music by
Nicholas Gasparini at the Dark Piano dot com. Thanks again
to the Alliance Francais. This is a seven News production
Speaker 3 (58:01):
Down do
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher,
friend missing for twenty six years.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not sure if
it was intentional or there's something more foul afoot.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter. What I say, whether you find Marian Barter
dead or alive, I honestly believe somebody has that key
piece of information.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something. The lady vanishes, Episode forty nine.
I'm aliceon Sandy.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
And I'm Brian Seymour. We're back at Lismore for day two,
the afternoon session of this three day hearing, the latest
in the coronial inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter.
The questions returned to the evidence of Gilaine du Bois
d'An lois and again mister Bloom, in a hesitant and
(01:40):
stuttering voice, rejects everything that is put to him. No,
he did not suggest that they should marry in Balley
in two thousand and six. No, he did not tell
her they would start a new life together in Australia.
And no, he did not persuade her to withdraw some
sixty thousand euros.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Never. No, I know she claimed that, but that never happened.
I never went to a bank with her, like she said. Never.
Speaker 6 (02:10):
She says that you persuaded her to withdraw sixty thousand euros.
You deny that.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yes, she never gave me a penny. In fact, every
time I went to her place, oftentimes I bought. I
bought the food and everything. She never never, never spent
a penny on me. You got my travel records right.
I was long gone before she sought her house.
Speaker 6 (02:36):
Well, I was coming to that, mister Blum. Did you
persuade her to sell her house so you could start
a new life abroad.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That's a lie. The reasons she was set in her
house was because her son's farm burnt out and she
was going to buy a farm in France. But I
was long back in Australia when that happened.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
There are some similarities, are there not? Between what Madame
Danoix has to say in comparison to what genitalg, Jeanette
Geffney Bowen and Manique Cornelius have said in relation to
you and them starting a new life.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Mister Bloom's barrister Matthew White raises an objection, but Coroner Thereensa.
O'Sullivan dismisses it, allowing mister Caunselton to repeat his question,
which he does.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Will you agree with me that there are similarities between
what you said to Madame Danois about starting a new
life together in comparison to what Janet Oldenburg, Jeanette Gefney
Bowen and Benique Cornelius have said about you saying to
them let's start a new life together.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I can't remember what happened. Explain to It's like a
disc who slips in my head. I I have terrible headaches,
don't remember.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
Do you remember accurately helping Madame Danois pack some trunks
of her belongings to ship them to Australia.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
In a statement at one stage she said one trunk
and I don't know the statement and she see two trunks.
I flew back home with only the suitcases. I didn't
take any trunks.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
When you commenced your romantic relationship with Marion Barter in
nineteen ninety seven, it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Was an romantic She's a one who proposed itwas never romantic.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
You've admitted a sexual relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen
ninety seven, mister Blum.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yes, but that doesn't mean it was romantic.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Here the coroner intervenes to settle the distinction. Mister Bloom
seems to be making.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Let's call it sexual.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
I'm happy to do that. When you commenced your sexual
relationship with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven, did you
seek to persuade her to sell her house?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
And did you seek to persuade her to sell her
house so that the two of you could start a
new life together in Europe?
Speaker 3 (04:50):
No, no, no.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
And did you suggest to Marion Barter in nineteen ninety
seven that she should resign from her job as a
teacher on the Gold Coast and to open up a
school in Europe.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's something she said that she will do.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
But did you undergo a ceremony of sorts with Marion
Barter in Europe, where she may believe she was married.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
How can you organize that? In Europe? You produce alls
birth certificate and all your You've got published bands for
the marry. You can't just get married like that.
Speaker 6 (05:22):
Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
the two of you should marry abroad?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No? No, no, I saw her as three times in my.
Speaker 6 (05:32):
Life, perhaps four, mister Blum, correct, excluding nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
No. I think I saw her and stayed at the
house once, and I saw her on two other days.
And that day she drove me to the best depot
and I returned home. I didn't stay the night.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
And of course you saw her at your place at Wollongbar. Sorry,
you also saw her at your place at Wollongba just
outside of Lismore on the road.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, yeah, when she when she brought when, no, she
didn't come. It was a man. It was a little
man who came in and delivered. And then I saw her.
I think she came when she came with another person
(06:28):
to pick up the boxes.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Did you promise Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven that
you would start a new life together?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
In BALI No, sir, no, why why would I?
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Mister counselten suggests a morning adjournment.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
During the breaking proceedings. I chat to some of the
people who've turned up to watch. So this is She's
been following the podcast since the beginning and lives less
than an hour away in Mullumbimbi.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
It's fascinating being here in person. It's just made it
all feel very real. It's interesting to see him in person,
and I feel very emotional and very just stressed actually
listening to him talk and thinking about Marian and what
(07:20):
may or may not have happened to her.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
What do you think about him? Like, are you buying
this whole?
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Not at all.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
I think he's just a complete liar, and I don't
believe a word of what he's saying. And I think
that he's proven himself to be a complete opportunist and
corn artist, and so I don't know how anyone can
believe what he's anything that he's saying. It's all seems
like lies to me. And when he talks, it seems
(07:49):
like he's, you know, using a speech pattern to buy
time and to avoid and I could just see right
through all of it. The way that things have unfolded
during the course of and because of this podcast has
just been so incredible and gripping.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
After the break, the evidence of the woman we know
as Charlotte is raised. A statement she made to Belgium
police in twenty twelve has been tended to the court.
She won't be giving evidence in person because she wants
to keep her name private. We're continuing to use the pseudonym.
(08:37):
Although her true identity is revealed in court. We can
say that she is the wife of Rick Blum's deceased cousin.
Mister Cassadin puts to mister Blum that he traveled to
Belgium in February twenty twelve to meet with Charlotte, and
that they later traveled together to Bali. Several questions and
(09:01):
mister Blum's responses are always rambling and full of stuttering
and bumbling. He mentions an inheritance from his mother and
how somehow his cousin, a banker, was involved. He accepts
that he did not go to his cousin's funeral in
July twenty eleven, but did travel to Belgium just seven
(09:23):
months later to see his cousin's grieving widow, a woman
he had only seen once in the previous twenty years,
at an aunt's funeral.
Speaker 6 (09:34):
Is it true, mister Blum, that shortly after your cousin
passed that you contacted his widow by telephone?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was was regarding the money of my mother that
was left with her hostpan.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Did you disclose to Charlotte and your conversations leading up
to your visit in February twenty twelve that you were
married to Diane?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
She knew she knew that.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Charlotte most definitely, by her account, did not know that
he was married. Mister Blum also denies that he went
to Belgium in early twenty twelve with the intent to
seduce his cousin's widow, nor did he agree with suggestions
that he persuaded her to withdraw one hundred thousand euro
(10:21):
so they could buy a property in Bali together. Instead,
he claims that Charlotte had at least six or seven properties.
Then he thought that perhaps she could consider returning the
money left by his mother.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Now you say you had no intentions of seducing Charlotte
in February or March of twenty twelve, do you, mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Oh? Or No.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Did you say to Charlotte that you would buy a
house in Indonesia together for the two of you to
live together.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
No?
Speaker 6 (10:51):
Why did you go to Bali with Charlotte?
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Because because the airline have an offer from Amsterdam and
she was interesting people everyone talked of Buddy and she
says you wanted to go and see the place.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
Had you been to Bali prior to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Yes, I went there to Buddy before.
Speaker 6 (11:15):
On How many occasions had you been to Bali prior
to twenty twelve?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Two or three times?
Speaker 6 (11:20):
One with Janet Oldenburg? Correct?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Yes, correct in.
Speaker 6 (11:24):
Nineteen ninety nine, once in twenty eleven for a wedding. Correct, Yes,
What other times have you been to Balley? Mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I went to Bali earlier once twice I went there
for a holiday.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Did you own property in Bali?
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Never have?
Speaker 6 (11:41):
In twenty twelve, did you tell Charlotte that you owned
property in Bali?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
No? Why would I do that?
Speaker 6 (11:46):
You say you didn't.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
No.
Speaker 6 (11:48):
Did you persuade Charlotte to withdraw one hundred thousand euros
from her accounts in Belgium? I did in order to
purchase a property in Bali with.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
You I didn't personally ask for anything. I just said
that I have that receipt from her husband and that
I would have liked maybe she would deposit, considering that
she had I don't know, at least six or seven properties.
Considering all that that she could be annoyed that she knew,
(12:19):
but the letter of her husband that she would probably
maybe consider give me back the money of my mother.
Speaker 6 (12:25):
Did Charlotte give you any money in February or March
twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
When we departed, she said she had the money for me,
So I took that she she they were safe in
the room of the hotel, and she put all of
her precious things and the money in the safe and
she was the only one with the access to whatever
number it was to get to it.
Speaker 6 (12:52):
And was this a safe in the hotel room in Bali?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (12:55):
And how much money did you understand was in this
safe in the hotel?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I understood she had one hundred thousand.
Speaker 6 (13:02):
Dollars one hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
One hundred thousand yeah, in Bali? Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:07):
And did she give you that one hundred thousand euros?
Because of the issue you've just given evidence about relating
to and perhaps the Sun.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
No, she gave me an envelope when I was leaving,
and I realized it was only half because only fifty
thousand euros, I was not so happy about it. It's
only after I let that I realized that it was
only half the money. The money that I declare at
perse airport when I arrived and was stolen from me
later on the gold course when I went to change it.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
Just so I'm very clear, mister Blum, you accept that
Charlotte gave you fifty thousand euros and that you entered
Australia with fifty thousand euros exactly? Would you agree with me?
For you, at least fifty thousand euros is a substantial
sum of money.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (13:53):
Do you understand why it was? She did not transfer
that sum of money to your bank account?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Which bank?
Speaker 6 (13:58):
The bank account you held with the Commonwealth Bank in
twenty twelve.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
No, she I don't know. She went to her bank
withdrew the money. That's what she told me, and she
told me to give me, But in fact I was
only given a novelope with fifty thousand euros.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Do you know why she felt the need to travel
from Belgium to Bali with such a substantial amount of
money instead of just transferring it to you from Belgium
to your account in Australia.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
I know that was the way she did it. No, no, no, no,
you know.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
Could it be, mister Blam.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Maybe it's because she already thought of giving me fifty
thousand euro and therefore she didn't want to declare the bank. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (14:47):
Could it be, mister Blum, that you suggested to Charlotte
that she withdraw one hundred thousand euros from her account
in Belgium and to take it to Bali to purchase
a property.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
No, no, mister Bloom appears to have very good recall
for what he says he did and did not do.
Mister Castleton questions him about the twenty five thousand euros
worth of jewelry Charlotte says he took from her, which
he denies. Despite being owed one hundred thousand euros, Mister
(15:20):
Bloom says he accepted fifty thousand euros in cash in
an envelope, which was then stolen from him at Pacific
Fair shopping center on the Gold Coast, where he planned
to change the euros to Australian dollars. When reporting the
alleged twenty twelve robbery to police, mister Bloom told them
his family in Europe gave him the money for a
(15:42):
prostrate operation. That is confusing, the same fifty thousand euros,
according to mister Bloom, seems to have had several different purposes.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Now you've given three versions, mister Blum, about the fifty
thousand euros you declared on a rival to Perth on
the twenty ninth of March twenty twelve. First you say
on oath it's an inheritance. Secondly you say on oath
today it was the compensation owed to you by your
cousin and perhaps his son. And you have given a
version to Queensland Police that it was for a prostate operation.
(16:15):
Mister Blum, which of the three is correct?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I object?
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Matthew White, the barrister representing mister Bloom, raises another objection.
Speaker 6 (16:23):
Your honor.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
The evidence today, in my submission, was that it was
an inheritance. It wasn't compensation, and it wasn't owed by someone.
It was money that had been invested, mister Blum said,
by the mother. There was a receipt for the money
he gave. That receipt and in discussions in some form
it was suggested that she consider that he be given
(16:45):
some of that inheritance, and he said he eventually got
the fifty thousand euro In balley, mister Counslon makes the
point that he is only putting to mister Bloom what
he has previously said.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
When Bloom responds, he says that maybe there is a
misunderstanding over the meaning of the French word compensasson. Yet
there is a separate word in French for inheritance, les detage.
Mister Castleeden then points out that mister Bloom's wife, Diane,
gave evidence under oath that she was completely unaware of
(17:19):
any inheritance for her husband. As the afternoon wears on,
so does mister Casseleden, turning to mister Bloom's relationship with
Glaine Dubois d'An lois in two thousand and six, did
you have.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Any discussions with Jelaine of getting engaged or getting married,
mister Blum. No, no discussions whatsoever of being engaged to marry.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
And you're quite certain of that today that you never
discussed engagement with Jelaine d'An noises. You'll need to keep
your voice up, please, mister Blum.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I don't remember this. No.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
I want to suggest to you that you would remember that,
wouldn't you, because you were married to Diane at the time.
I want to show you a document, please, mister Blum.
You can read French. Yes, take a moment to read
quietly to yourself the document I have opened for you.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
It is the document Allison provided to police the previous
day when they took a statement from her.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
And you see there it's a document that says, Julaane Danois.
You see that at the top and do you see
the next line is very happy to announce her engagement
to Frederic D'HEADEVERI do you see that? Do you see that?
Mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Ah?
Speaker 6 (18:28):
Yes, yes, rather suggests, does it not that Julaine Danois
thought she was engaged to Frederic D'HEADAVERI correct.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I can't injudice, Yes, but I never seen that.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
And I want to suggest to you that Julaane Danois
provided that document recently, and then it has been provided
to those assisting her honor today. Yes, were you engaged
to be married to Julaane Danois in two thousand and six?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
No?
Speaker 6 (18:53):
I want to suggest to you you were, mister Blum,
and that your denials are alie.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
No, I've never seen that notice.
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Did you have any discussions in May and June of
two thousand and six with Julaine Danoix as to where
you may hold an engagement party? No, so you're very clear,
mister Blum. I'm suggesting that your evidence today of denying
having any discussions with Julaane Danois about engagement to marry
are false.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yes, you agree with me. Do you never seen that?
I've never participated or anything of that. That's all. That's
all I know. I don't remember such a thing, never
seen it.
Speaker 6 (19:33):
Never could you have been caught out in a lie,
mister Blum, about your denials of being engaged to marry
Julaane Danoix.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I was never engaged. How could I be engaged? I
was never never engaged. I was never never engaged.
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Were you engaged to Florabella Remichel in nineteen ninety seven,
mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (19:54):
No? No.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
Now is the time for you to be full and
frank about your interactions with Marion Barter in nineteen ninety seven.
Is there anything you wish to say that you have
not already said in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
What what could I You.
Speaker 6 (20:15):
Don't know what became of Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I myself believe that she's still alive, but I don't
know anything about where she is, or abouts or nothing
at all.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
Your honor. That concludes my examination.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan has some of her own questions.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Thank you, mister Castle and mister Bloom. Why do you
believe Marian is still alive.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Because she I can't tell you exactly when. But in
a conversation before she went to England, she said that
she wanted to separate from her family. She didn't want
anything to do with any mum of her family. She
was a bit of a strange person, all right.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Can I just ask you where you were when she
said that to you?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
When she said that to me, it was in her place.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
In her house, in her house, yes, whereabouts?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Was that in Queensland? Our country? Remember the name of
the suburb. She said she had enough of her family
and she didn't want she she was. I explained to
mister White before that she was strange in a way,
that whatever she did, he was strange in the way
(21:41):
she dressed, She was strange.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Again the coroner inter.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Runs'll cut you off there, mister Bloom. It's not really
assisting in what I need to find out.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That brief interchange may prove crucial, as you will soon hear.
It's now the of Sally Leyden's barrister Bradley Smith, to
ask mister Blum a few questions. Mister Smith is not
in the court at Lismore. He's in his office in Sydney,
appearing via video link.
Speaker 8 (22:15):
At any point in two thousand and six, did you
have any interest in poisons.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
As you know, I was interested in poison. No, no,
not in poison. I don't know anything about poison, and
all I know is like everybody else has a domestic poison.
But my interest are always reading that history history, yes,
(22:42):
but poisoned no well.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Glaine Danoix gave evidence yesterday that in two thousand and
six you would often discuss with her your interest in poisons.
Do you say that was false?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
It's a lie. Yes.
Speaker 8 (22:54):
Also got evidence yesterday that you persuaded her to withdraw
funds from her bank account, and then on each OC
case and she did withdraw funds, you attended the bank
with her. That's true. Isn't it.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Never been in a bank with her? Never? Never?
Speaker 8 (23:08):
Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Sorry?
Speaker 8 (23:11):
Is that an almost answer, mister Bloom.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yes, it's an honest answer. The only place I went
when we there was what they call an agance. That's
the only place.
Speaker 8 (23:24):
Given in a currency exchange bureau.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
No argance. It is somebody that you invest money in
in shares. It's not actually cash involved, it's all paper.
You can't do anything banking without any record at the bank,
especially in Europe there, whatever you do with the bank,
you got to be able to justify with your V
(23:48):
eighteen number and whatever.
Speaker 8 (23:50):
What would you go to a share writeing with Gelaine Demoi?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah? I went there because she told me that's what
she was. I wanted to go with her, but I
didn't participate in anything. She just told me towards agen,
that's all.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
So you stayed at that house for how long I stayed.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
At her house About roughly a fortnight, But I was
staying the university. I only was visiting her, and I
stayed there a few days.
Speaker 8 (24:20):
And on one of those few days when you visited her,
she said she was going to a share agent and
you went with her. Is that your evidence?
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 8 (24:28):
Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Why?
Speaker 8 (24:31):
Why did she ask you to go with her?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I don't know. She just you know, you got for
a coffee or whatever. I just I just went with her.
But there's no transaction possible there or.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
Was the name of the share agent Damien and sons
don't remember? And you didn't go to the share agent
with miss Daranoix because you had persuaded her to exchange
shares that she owned for cash.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You can't do that. You can't, so regulations set up
there in brassets you can't do that.
Speaker 8 (25:05):
So the answer is no. Sorry is the answer?
Speaker 4 (25:08):
No?
Speaker 3 (25:09):
No, Yes, you can't do that.
Speaker 8 (25:12):
And it's correct. Isn't it that you suggested to miss
dear Noir that she should apply for an international driver's
license before moving to Australia with you?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
No?
Speaker 8 (25:20):
Well, in two thousand and six, you are familiar with
international driver's licenses, weren't you? Sorry, in two thousand and six,
you were familiar with international driver's licenses, weren't you?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
All I knew is to get an international driver's license.
I got every time I left Australia, I took the
I went to the on NRM and got an international
driver's license. That's what people do.
Speaker 8 (25:45):
And you'd agree with me. You've left Australia numerous times,
haven't you. Yes, So you've applied for an international driver's
license numerous times.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (25:53):
So you were very familiar in two thousand and six
with international driver's licenses.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Weren't you in Australia.
Speaker 8 (25:59):
Well, it's the isn't it that you obtained an international
driver's license in the name of Fernande Ramakal in Luxembourg? Correct? Yes,
And that was a false international driver's license. Correct.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Well, I've just been this. It's it's not government, it's
not an official thing. It's done by by autokler.
Speaker 8 (26:23):
But you weren't Fernande Ramacal when you applied for that
international driver's license.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Were you?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Yes, you use Fernande Ramakall's identity to obtain that international
driver's license correct, Yes, and then you use the international
driver's license to obtain a Queensland driver's license in that
name correct, correct. So, and you did those things prior
to two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Correct, don't remember.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
I want to suggest to you that again, in light
of what we've just discussed, that you suggested to Glain
Dan Why in two thousand and six that she should
obtain an international driver's license before moving to Australia with you,
Do you agree No?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I never discussed driver's license with Gilen.
Speaker 8 (27:03):
And I want to suggest to you that you also
persuaded Marian Barter to apply for an international driver's license
in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramicol in nineteen
ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Do you agree No, she organized that with her dentist.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
Pausing briefly here, we first told you in episode fourteen
that Marian had a dentist confirm her photograph ID for
her passport application, but we didn't know that this same
dentist was also asked by Marion to affirm her international
driver's license. This is apparently new information we're hearing for
the first time. What else might mister Bloom reveal?
Speaker 8 (27:45):
But at the same time she did that in nineteen
ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in the
name Fernande Knocholas Ramacol. Correct.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yes, I had four setain time until it disappeared. It
was stolen from me or I lost it. I don't know,
because in the previous time I can't remember if it's
in Ballina or barron By. I who repeats a question, Please.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
Let's hear that again.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
It was stolen from me or I lost it. I
don't know because in the previous time I can't remember
if it's in Ballina or Barron Bay. I one more time,
because in the previous time, I can't remember if it's
in Ballina or Barron By.
Speaker 5 (28:39):
I, Ballena or Byron Bay. Rick Bloom lives in Ballina.
When he was in a relationship with Marion in nineteen
ninety seven, he lived at Wollongba. Marion lived at Southport.
He claims they met up on the Gold Coast. We've
(29:00):
identified fifteen different places that mister Bloom has lived in
in Australia in four states. He has not lived in
or ever mentioned visiting Byron Bay. It's interesting too that
he would mention it during this line of questioning. Marian
was reported missing in Byron Bay after her daughter Sally,
discovered her life's savings were being withdrawn from her bank
(29:23):
account in Byron Bay, including a final large withdrawal of
eighty thousand dollars. For such a transaction, she would have
needed identification. Her account was in the name Marion Barter,
but her new legal name was Florabella Remichel. If there
was any potential confusion over the new identity, Marian had
(29:43):
both a passport and an international driver's license in her
new name with her photo and or signature. We know
she had a driver's license when she applied for her
new passport because she ticked the box for ID documents
and wrote int license. So was Rick Bloom in Byron
Bay Was what he just said a misstep? Did he
(30:07):
simply make a mistake or did he just inadvertently reveal
a crucial piece of evidence? Now mister Smith turns to
another perplexing Mistruth. Mister Bloom has committed to the official record.
Speaker 8 (30:26):
Do you see there an incoming passenger card, mister Bloom?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:30):
And you see in the bottom half of the right
hand side the letters see inside a black circle resident
returning to Australia. Yes, and then the country you spent
most time abroad? Do you see that?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (30:41):
Do you agree you filled out this card?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (30:44):
And you see the date twenty ninth of March twenty
twelve what it says, yes, which is the date I
was just putting to you earlier. Yes, and you see
that you wrote the country where you spent most time
abroad as Germany.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (30:57):
Now, if you spend your time in Belgium and France,
what did you write on this card? It spent most
of your time in Germany.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Where I spent some time in Germany, yes, but I
can't remember.
Speaker 8 (31:13):
Well, do you remember I asked you before? Did you
spend time in any other countries?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
But I went to Germany because I had to catch
my flight to return home. I spent time in Liege,
which is a city in Belgium, and from there I
took the trend to Frankfurt, where I caught my flag
back home.
Speaker 8 (31:31):
Do you agree that that doesn't explain why you've written
that you spend most of your time abroad in Germany.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Well, I can't give you an explanation. It's the explanation
spend time in Belgium. I spent time in Germany, Yes,
I did. What's so special about.
Speaker 8 (31:54):
It's the explanation that you had to fall of one
hundred thousand euros and you were a tempting to cover
your tracks by not stating that you'd spend most of
your time in Belgium.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I spend time because I have people to see, my family,
to see her. I spend time in the various places.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
What was what?
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I don't know. I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
Throughout this inquest, Salley's lawyer Brad Smith has raised some
crucial points through his questions and he's about to do
it again.
Speaker 8 (32:27):
At the time Marion Barter applied for an international driver's
license in the name Flora Bella Natalia Marion Remaco in
nineteen ninety seven, you had a Queensland driver's license in
the name Fernande Knoculus Remaco.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Correct, Yes, and that was stolen from me. I never
never used it. That was in my pocket and it
was I don't know what was tolen or I lost it.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
I want to suggest to you, but.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
With what happened, I believe that she took it because license.
If I remember from last time, the license was renewed
and I never never renew it.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
I want to suggest to you that you've persuaded Marian
Bartered to apply for that international driver's license on the
pretext that she would become Missus Ramacal in your new
life together overseas.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Do you agree, No, sir, she arranged all these things
were arranged with her dentist which I never met.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
And is it correct that you just to put to
you squarely the evidence you've just given that Marian took
your Queensland driver's license in the name Fernande Naculist Ramical
and arranged her international driver's license with a dentist without
your knowledge is a lie?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
No, it's not.
Speaker 8 (33:41):
Is it correct that you last saw Gelaine dear Nois
in September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yes, I can't remember, she.
Speaker 8 (33:48):
Says, the last time she saw you was in September
two thousand and six. Does that sound right to you?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
It may be the case, but I don't remember, and
you accept it. I think I answered the question already
to mister Castleton.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
Yes, what you accepted from mister Castleton was that you
returned to Australia on the fourteenth of September two thousand
and six.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Correct, Yeah, And.
Speaker 8 (34:09):
I want you to assume for me that your incoming
passenger car when you return to Australia on the fourteenth
of September two thousand and six. The answer to the
question are you bringing into Australia ten thousand dollars or
more in Australian or foreign currency equivalent. You circled yes.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yes.
Speaker 8 (34:25):
I want to suggest to you that the more than
ten thousand Australian dollars or equivalent of cash that you
were bringing into Australia was money you had stolen from
Gallain dan Mois. No, no, no, where was the more
than ten thousand dollars you brought back into Australia on
the fourteenth of September two thousand and six from.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Because from my family every time, every time I came
back to Australia, always hard to set an amount of
money coming from my family, but I never always always
declare every everything, always.
Speaker 8 (35:04):
Well, you accepted. In April last year, I said to you,
is your evidence that you were collecting about one thousand
Australian dollars from the account at Ahman in Europe? And
you said, I said before, I sometimes take more. Yes,
And I said, but on average, And you said on
average on average. I remember that I declared in Sydney
once seventeen thousand dollars. And I remember that I declared
in Perth once, No, seventeen thousand euros, sorry, And I
(35:26):
declared once in Perth fifty thousand euros, I think. And
that was the last bit of my inheritance. Do you
say to her honor that these funds you declared in
September two thousand and six were part of your inheritance?
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yes, that's all it was. Is that true, mister Blom, Yes,
it is true. I was fortunate.
Speaker 8 (35:45):
And did you open a safety deposit box at the
Commonwealth Bank six days later? On the twenty eighth of
September two thousand and six.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I can't remembers date. At the common Worst Bank, I
had a number up with because there were lots of like,
there were lots of people stealing things. And I have
an envelope which with the title of the house, the
thejurary of my family, and a few mementos, and an
(36:17):
envelope that was about twelve to fifteen centimeters wide and
probably twenty centimeters long. You can't put a lot of
things in. And because I had that envelope, and later
on a security box or whatever you call it become
available and I was given to me.
Speaker 8 (36:36):
I want to suggest to you that you opened a
safety deposit box or the Commonwealth Bank six days after
you return from the trip where you spent time with
Galine to deposit money. You would stolen. Do you agree?
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And how do you go through? You are at the
airport and you're going in one of those cabin where
everything is you you photograph it. You go in one
of the scanners. And if I had anything that I
didn't declare, then now I'd be reported. You can't be
(37:10):
you can't. I don't know how you travel, but you
can't come to Australia these days with going it's an
automatic cabin that you walk in and they know everything
you've got on you. I don't know if you're familiar
with the process, but that's the way it is, and
(37:32):
that's the way I arrived in purse and I declare,
declare the money I had, because you can't do otherwise.
They know before even you declare, they know you've got it.
Speaker 5 (37:45):
After almost five hours, the day is drawing to a close.
Mister Smith turns his attention to Marion Barter.
Speaker 8 (37:52):
Arising from the evidence of Gelaine dar Noi that you
persuaded her to withdraw money from her bank account and
the evidence of that you persuade had her to withdraw
money from her bank account. Did you persuade Marian Barter
to withdraw funds from her bank account? Between August and
October nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
No, sir, never had a penny from Marion Barter.
Speaker 8 (38:12):
Never did you persuade her to withdraw eighty thousand dollars
from her bank account on or about the fifteenth of
October nineteen ninety seven in Barron Bay. No, sir, in
the period August to October nineteen ninety seven, did you
deceive Marian Barter in any way for your own financial advantage?
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Sir?
Speaker 8 (38:28):
When you gave evidence earlier that Marian told you she
wanted to separate from her family, that was a lie,
wasn't it, sir? And you agree with me. You've been
asked on a number of occasions previously in this inquest
if you know what happened to Marian Barter.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (38:42):
And you never before today said anything to that effect
that she wanted to separate from her family in answer
to any of these questions, did.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You, because that's the conversation she had.
Speaker 8 (38:53):
Thank you, your honor, No further questions.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
Mister Smith has hit upon a crucial point which the
other lawyers in the court will soon grasp. It is
the end of day two. Rick Bloom has one more
day before the Coroner.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's another crisp winter's morning in Lismore as people again
packed the public gallery at the local Court for day
three of this tranch of proceedings. At ten am, hundreds
of people are waiting online for live streaming to begin
for what's expected to be the final day of evidence,
although of course we've heard that before this time. Rick
(39:36):
Blum appears via video link, seated beside his council Matthew White.
He's wearing a zipped up tracksuit jacket gray and blue
with a white stripe. While he looks tired, he appears
more comfortable than he did yesterday when he was seated
in the witness stand in the courtroom. Questioning begins with
(39:58):
Adam Caussenden taking up point raised two days earlier by
witness Andre Flumm. She'd said, mister Blum or she knew
him Frederic de Heniveri maintained a bank account in Belgium
when she knew him in twenty ten. Mister Blum responded
to a series of questions with a lot of stumbling
(40:20):
and stuttering. It's a very drawn out process, but ultimately
he denies any suggestion that he had held any bank
account in any part of Europe since around nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
I want to come now to some evidence you gave
yesterday in answer to a question from Her Honor.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
Suddenly the reporters and people in the public gallery are attentive,
as though they can tell there is something important about
to be raised.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
At the conclusion of my examination of you yesterday, I
asked you this question, mister Blum, would you like to
say anything further in relation to the disappearance of Marian Barter?
And you answered no, what could I say? I then
asked you you don't know what became of Marion Barter,
and you answered, I, myself believe that she's still alive.
(41:13):
That's what I believe. But I don't know anything about
what she did, or whereabouts, or nothing at all. Then
Her Honor asked you, mister Blum, why do you believe
Marian is still alive, to which you answered because she
I can't tell you exactly when. But and in a
conversation before she went to England, she said that she
wants to separate from her family. She didn't want anything
(41:36):
to do with any member of her family. She was
a bit of a strange person, to which Her Honor
then asked you. Can I ask you where were you
when she said that to you? You answered, when she
said that to me, it was in her place. Her
honor then asked you in her house? You responded yeah,
(41:56):
And then her honor asked you whereabouts?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Was that?
Speaker 6 (42:00):
You then respond in Queensland. I can't remember the name
of the suburb. But she said that she's had enough
of her family. Do you remember giving that evidence yesterday,
mister Blum.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
Mister Bloom does remember giving that evidence. So Adam Casselton
probes further.
Speaker 6 (42:15):
Can I ask you, are you able to give more
detail about which visit you had with Marion in nineteen
ninety seven when she said those matters to you? Was
it the first occasion you met with her in Southport,
the second occasion there in Southport or the third occasion
that you met with her?
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I can't remember.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
And are you sure that she said those words to
you in Queensland or could it have been to you
here in New South Wales?
Speaker 4 (42:39):
No?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
No, No, it was it was It was in Queensland.
Speaker 6 (42:48):
And how did that conversation come about, mister Blum?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
It was a genial, genial general discussion. But I can't
remember you.
Speaker 6 (42:59):
Can't give any more context as to how was she
came to say those matters about abandoning her family.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
No, no, no, no, would you agree with me?
Speaker 6 (43:08):
Throughout the course of your evidence in this inquest, you
have rarely descended into that level of detail in relation
to your interaction with Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
What do you want me to say?
Speaker 6 (43:19):
Well? Do you agree or disagree with what I've just
suggested to you, mister Blum, I just.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Said, remember that particular thing that she said, But that
was all I wasn't, you know, I wasn't particularly particularly
interested in anything of that kind, So I I found
(43:44):
I can't remember she made that that point that I
thought was probably a bit a bit strange.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
Mister Bloom denies suggestions that the new evidence he has
suddenly remembered about a conversation with Marion Barter is a lie.
He becomes befuddled and again stutters and stumbles repeatedly when
mister Casselon asks him whether he realizes how important this
information is.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
I can understand that, but I can't. I can't, I can't.
I don't so many years ago, I don't remember.
Speaker 6 (44:28):
I have to ask why you did not volunteer that
information to New South Wales Police when you first spoke
to them about Marian's disappearance in June of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
One, because because they never do, they never ask anything
about it. Then I just don't remember.
Speaker 6 (44:51):
Mister Bloom, you knew in June of twenty twenty one
that the police wished to question you in relation to
your interaction with Marion Barter because she was a missing person.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (45:02):
And if I can return to my earlier question, in
those circumstances, why did you not volunteer the information which
you have disclosed here to the New South Wales Police.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
Will spare you any more of the bumbling responses because
it goes on for some time. Mister Bloom does not
have a definitive answer as to why he suddenly announced
yesterday for the very first time that Marion Barter told
him in nineteen ninety seven that she wanted to separate
herself from her family, Yet he denies that he is
(45:36):
making it up. Mister Cassitin pointedly asks why such a
conversation was not mentioned during mister Bloom's interview with police
on September fourteenth, twenty twenty one, and why he did
not mention it when prompted during court proceedings on February sixteen,
twenty twenty two, and why he again failed to reveal
(45:59):
the information when asked in April twenty twenty two about
whether he had any more information about Marion Barter. As
he struggles to explain all of this, Rick Bloom appears
to highlight his supposed cognitive decline by stuttering, I don't remember.
That's how things work in my head. I do things
(46:21):
now that I won't remember. This afternoon, I don't remember,
and sometimes I remember. It continues along like this for
a while before mister Casselton says this.
Speaker 6 (46:35):
Could the reason you disclose that information only yesterday be
because you know more about the disappearance of Marion Barter
than you have previously let on, and you let down
your guard yesterday. I suggest that you do know more
than you are letting on about the whereabouts of Marion Barter. No, sir, no,
I want to suggest to you, mister Bloom, that you
know more about the whereabouts of Marion Barter than you
(46:57):
have been letting on to her honor throughout the course
of her honors in quest. Do you accept that?
Speaker 3 (47:02):
No, sir, no, I don't. I don't know anything anything
about Marion Butter.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
I have no further questions.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Once Adam Casselton sits down selling Leyden's lawyer, brand Smith
again has questions, beginning with an invitation to mister Bloom
to provide an answer.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
I asked a similar question in April last year. Mister Bloom,
if you do know anything, this is your time to answer.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I would have done it a long time ago. You
put me under such pressure.
Speaker 8 (47:35):
I don't remember so so you made up that evidence.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
I never made up a story. But my but my
head doesn't walk like yours. I have problems.
Speaker 8 (47:45):
You know I act for Marion Barter's daughter. Yes, you
know that she has been looking for her mother since
nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Mister Bloom responds with more stuttering.
Speaker 8 (47:55):
So you can't provide any more information as to what
happened to Marion Barter.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
I can't prove how would I know she was living
her life? I wasn't seeing what do you want me
to see?
Speaker 5 (48:14):
It is here that questioning ends. More documents attended before
the court is adjourned. This public hearing is over, but
the inquest is not. Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan's findings are still
to be delivered at a date to be advised.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Once the public gallery has emptied and media crews have dispersed,
I catch up with Christina, who, as I've mentioned, has
come from the UK for this in quest about We
chat about what we've heard and seen over the past
few days.
Speaker 9 (48:50):
I think today the pretty big thing was that what
he's claiming about what Marian said in nineteen ninety seven
about wanting to disown a farm or not have anything
to do with them, which of course we know he
hasn't mentioned before, and as far as I know, in
twenty twenty one when he gave his statement to the police,
(49:11):
he didn't have those medical issues that have come on
since then. So it's very questionable my view.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
They talk about cognitive decline, right, but it does seem
to be quite switched on still.
Speaker 9 (49:23):
Well, it seems to fluctuate, doesn't it. Whether that's out
of convenience.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Well more with the voice that fluctuates. But he seems
to understand everything that's been put to him, right, Yeah.
Speaker 9 (49:34):
He understands all the questions, and some he's able to
answer extremely clearly. Usually when there's a backstory to be told,
I find there isn't much speech impediment there when there's
a story to be told. Ultimately, this is fact finding,
isn't it. And the facts that needed, the evidence is needed.
(49:57):
Clearly that's not going to come from.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
Him, no, and all we can do is present the
evidence as we have with all or as the the
coroner's team has via New South Wales Police, and put
that to him, give him a chance to explain it
way up what seems more probable. And I mean I
(50:20):
guess within a lot of criminal cases and coroner's cases
that's what happens.
Speaker 9 (50:27):
That must be why the coroner wants to hear all
this additional information about these other women that have come
forward with what's happened to them, because it creates a
bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
The issue is here is that more information keeps coming out,
but we can't definitely keep going with the coronial inquest
when it's two years, Like it's been two years. That's
a long time.
Speaker 9 (50:47):
And if you just think of Sally and the effect
that it has on her, it would be really good
if there was some sort of end insight, not necessarily closure,
but some end to this part of the proceeding so
she can move on with the next stage.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well, that's right, because the coroner does have the opportunity
to refer it to the DPP if she thinks there's
an indetable offense in relation to Marian's disappearance. So there
are avenues that need to proceed. I mean, an inquest
isn't going to conclude this investigation.
Speaker 9 (51:24):
Absolutely, and you can only hope that some further action
is taken after this and that there's some justice for Marian.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
As she may recall, Christina was an avid listener of
the podcast and quickly became a helper, doing whatever she
could to help out with investigations in the UK. Recently,
she's been writing letters to people in Burwash who live
in the lane where Rick Blum then Frederick de HEAVERI
lived with his wife, Diane and his children in the
(51:54):
nineteen eighties, and amazingly she got a response from someone
who remembers them.
Speaker 9 (52:00):
She was very helpful and her memories of Rick and
Diane from that time if you think that was the
mid nineteen eighties, those memories were very vivid and it
was almost as if she had been dying to talk
to someone about this because she always wondered what became
of them, and because she had some concerns about his
(52:21):
behavior and his treatment of Diane. I think she was
concerned and she didn't know what became of them. So firstly,
she was pleased to hear that Diane was okay for
her welfare, and she was surprised that they were still
married okay.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
And when you say concerns, why was she concerned, like
what evidence had been presented to her that Diane was
being controlled?
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Well.
Speaker 9 (52:49):
Her observation of the family dynamic was that Rick had
a lot of control over things within the family, down
to the point of he would only put a limited
amount of petrol in the car, so Diane couldn't travel
very far. He only gave her a small amount of
money to spend pocket money. He did all the shopping,
(53:11):
He bought all the children's clothes. She wasn't able to
buy the children's clothes. So she was living in isolation really,
and her life was the children. And she expressed to
this woman that she was unhappy and she wanted to
get out of the marriage, but because of threats from
(53:32):
Rick that she would never see the children again, or
that he would find them and take away the children,
that she had no choice.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Some four years after the head of Aries moved away,
this woman received a Christmas card from Diane. She remembers
feeling relieved because Diane mentioned that she'd seen her parents,
whom she had missed greatly while in England. Bizarrely, the
woman still had the envelope that the card came in,
with the postmark from Tasmania. Christina passed on the information,
(54:10):
but the woman wants to remain anonymous, and she hasn't
been responding to emails lately. I turn our attention back
to the inquest and wonder aloud, what might happen next.
Speaker 9 (54:22):
It's just so surreal that we're here listening to this
after all that time, and just the huge amount of
information that's come out. It's quite overwhelmeding, really, isn't it.
Some of it doesn't even seem real. But you have
to step back and remember this is real, this is
(54:43):
what happens, and clearly something has happened to Marian that's
very serious. And I think it's just the thing to
remember is that there's human beings involved with this, human hearts.
You know, this affects people's lives, and I think some
of that can get lost sometimes in all the facts,
(55:06):
But it's good to step back and think that.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
I just gotta remember that absolutely. And you know, I
was thinking, you know, people with Rick Lamy's looking so pathetic,
I guess, and I don't mean that in the sense
of sad and pathetic. When he was there yes day,
an old man and he's stuttering and spluttering and everything,
and he's eighty three. And then I think of these
(55:30):
other women, Gilaine and Andre Flum, both in their nineties.
He just up in the middle of the night to
give evidence against him, particularly Glaine, who was obviously in
love with him.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (55:45):
It's sad, isn't it. There's some sad stories behind this,
and it obviously still affects them now and it's still
in their memory. So there is that element of sadness
that they've been hurt or damaged in some way his actions.
And there's potentially more.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
They all have, haven't there. And that's the thing. Their
stories are consistent, but he is not with their stories,
if you know what I mean. He's the only one
saying that's not true and calling them all layers.
Speaker 9 (56:13):
Yeah, and what are the chances of that that all
these women are lying and have made up all these stories? Because,
as he said, that's the kind of women they are.
Don't know what that means, but it's clear that they
are nice, good people who didn't deserve that treatment.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
As soon as we hear from the coroner, will let.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
You know.
Speaker 5 (56:50):
If you knew Marian or have any information about her
or who we'reabouts. We'd love to hear from you. Our
website is sevenews dot com dot au news slash the
Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here. You
can also send us an anonymous tip at the Lady
Vanishers dot org. If you like what you're hearing, don't
(57:15):
forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series. It
helps new listeners find us. Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy,
investigative journalist Brian Seymour, writer and producer Sally Yields, Sound
design Mark Wright, graphics Jason Blandford, translation and transcripts Estelle Sanchez,
(57:38):
voice actors Aurelli and Ritter, Veronique Durcell and the Brisbane
seven Newsroom. The theme and much of the music by
Nicholas Gasparini at the Dark Piano dot com. Thanks again
to the Alliance Francais. This is a seven News production
Speaker 3 (58:01):
Down do
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