The One Who Got Away

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher
friend missing for twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, I know something that she was going to vanish,
that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm not sure if it was intentional or there's something
more foul afoot.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say
little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Marian Barter.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive,
I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.

Speaker 5 (01:01):
I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
that somebody knows something.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
The lady vanishes, Episode forty six. I'm Alison Sandy and.

Speaker 6 (01:18):
I'm Brian Seymour. Back in twenty nineteen, Sally Leyden and
I went to Luxembourg hoping to track down Fernande Remachel,
the man who placed the personal ad in nineteen ninety four.
At the time, we had no idea his identity had
been stolen and used by Rick Bloom. We door knocked

(01:40):
every home belonging to relatives of Fernande Remichel, including his
ex wife Monique Cornelius.

Speaker 7 (01:47):
Monique Cornelius, this is Fernandra Remckel's first wife. We are
knocking on the door, see ancient home and b if
she knows anything about Marion, alright here we go, all
right on him.

Speaker 6 (02:07):
I also recruited the editor of the Luxembourg Word newspaper,
Tom Rudell, to help our cause, and we were in
their newsroom when we tried calling Monique.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
Joh Mayem I saw monic Colins.

Speaker 6 (02:23):
Hello, Monique, is this Monique?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Hello.

Speaker 6 (02:26):
My name's Brian. I'm a journalist from Australia. Since twenty nineteen,
we have stayed in touch with Monique, who spoke with
detectives and gave written evidence to the coroner that she
had a short sexual relationship with Rick Bloom or Frederic
de Hedeveri as she knew him in the early nineteen
eighties in Luxembourg. He told her he was a special

(02:46):
agent at the British Embassy, lied about his wife and
child only David was born at that time, and urged
her to sail away with him to start a new life.

Speaker 8 (02:55):
I love you, Monique.

Speaker 6 (02:57):
He also wrote her bizarre graphic love letters every moment, Yet,
when questioned about them by counsel assisting the coroner Adam Casselden,
mister Bloom still denied his relationship with Monique.

Speaker 8 (03:08):
Do you still maintain that you did not have any
sexual relationship with Monique Cornelius?

Speaker 3 (03:13):
He ay?

Speaker 8 (03:14):
Do may I continue? I am crazy and I scream
I have made it. Oh, you beautiful bastards, I have
made it, Monique. I am crazy because you are the
heaven I turned to after every storm. Monique, I am
crazy and I have to tell you one more way,
and I know that you accept the compliment. It is
Australian and so explicit of our wild nature. But never mind, Monique,

(03:35):
You're a song in a man's testicles. Do you still
maintain that you did not have any sexual relationship?

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (03:44):
Monique ended the relationship and has remained in fear of
Rick ever since. Now we can share with you.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Why Hi, Monique, It's Alison Sandy from the Lady Vanishes.
How are you.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (04:06):
Alison Sandy recently spoke with Monique, who agreed to go
on the record with this stunning information.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes, that's the podcast. I was only ringing because I
just thought you might have seen all the publicity recently
in Belgium and Luxembourg, with all these other people speaking out.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Give me a moment. I am not thinking already engled.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I just wanted to know if you'd read any of
the articles about other women who have been taken in.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Them.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I just wanted to thank you because your testimony, even
though you didn't appear in person, just what you provided
in your letters and your correspondence that you'd received from
him was just so important. And you are helping others.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Of course, madam, of course I that's why I did it,
that no other women will be He is just someone very,
very very dangerous. You know that also why I am

(05:23):
I'm working together with our Luxembourgish police, the highest one
we have here in luxembook, because I was afraid he
would come and make and also is capable of anything.

(05:44):
It's capable of anything, even killing.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Do you seem to know him more than anyone else
that we've spoken to.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
I know him. I know him, oh yes, I know
him very good, with his character, his reactions, and that's
why I say is a very for a woman, especially
for a woman. He is a very very dangerous man,

(06:12):
very dangerous, very dangerous. I can't I can't tell you.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
That he seemed to actually love you, which was bizarre because.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
He no, he lost money, nothing else, and for money,
he has nothing but a little if he had little
tension or how do you call it. He gets from
the state because he participated in the war and with

(06:47):
Australia with I don't know, in Asia somewhere, and his
legs are and not good, not good for that, and
therefore he gets from the Australian state. I think so,
I don't know it. I think so a little. That's
why he's living with his wife. Yeah. I immediately left

(07:10):
him when I thought that he had a wife. No, no, no, no, no,
I didn't know he was a fund in the in
the and I didn't leave anything anymore.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
While I was taking in everything when he had to say,
I was still in shock that she'd finally decided to
open up to me, and I was just waiting for
her to pause long enough so I could return to
the bombshell information she told me only moments earlier. What
makes you think he's capable of killing?

Speaker 2 (07:44):
He called me? But I don't know who is who
he has kids in the one day he told me, look,
this can't have already killed. And he showed me his
son like that, killing with hands only, that you must

(08:07):
be a real killer.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Why did he tell you that?

Speaker 2 (08:10):
I don't know. He caught me very very muchy he
did not manipulect me. I thought his manipulation. I thought
he lied or manipulcted. There a moments in life, even

(08:31):
if he was only a haunt where the past makes
you open the mouth, if you thing of the past,
it wasn't an a weak moment for him.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
I know you have provided letters and in the past
you didn't necessarily want to be part like just talk
at the inquest, do you think, because the inquest is
still going to try to get him in jail, because
he's not quite now, but he's three. He's very feeble.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's very promotion. He is also he is a master
of the manipulation. He never, never, never says the truth,
perhaps in a moment of weakness or but he manipulates everybody, everybody.

(09:24):
He tells story story, story stories. Therefore, I say don't
let him out anymore. That for the sake of other women,
that they don't live the same destiny to me. He
never did cut something, never never.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Never, Here many recalls when she discovered was married with children.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
He always was good about me. But when I knew
we went to the a roper where the aeroplanes landing
and departing. What do you call that? How do you airport?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (10:11):
He always went to the airport for phoning in Australia
to someone who is now I know that it was
his wife. And just like a haz, I went in
the telephone cabin just besides his so I could hear

(10:34):
all the phone what he was talking with that person.
And he talked about Daisy donkey child and he talked
to a woman and I heard that they were very
close telecross. And after the phone called here, we went

(10:59):
to drink or in a coffee and I asked him, Hey,
who's the lady you talked about your child? A child?
Do you have a child? Is that from me? I
didn't know it, He hadn't told me, And yeah, you

(11:21):
can have a child. I was always on my own.
That was my salvation. I had my house, I had
my job, I had my money. I didn't depend on
him on nothing. If I didn't want to see him.
I didn't. I told him no, no, leave me alone.

(11:42):
And we we were not intimate with their shee, we
were intimated. But I was free. I was always a
free woman. And then did what I decided, not what
he caused me, and that was my salvation. You know,

(12:07):
he knows very good to speak, and she spoke. He
is very good in story telling, in story tealist, and
that I know. He told me he was a secret
agent of the English embassy in Luxemburger. I believe, and

(12:28):
I studied. I am not fallen on my head. I
am more. I cannot say that a touch that I
am very intelligent, but I am not idiot. But that
is a fact. And I did my life also alone.
I have organized and you know, I'm free woman. And

(12:53):
that was my salvation, or you know, Megan, it was
not easy to get trait of him in my in
my brain. You know, he is a personality you you

(13:14):
not meet in every corner of the road. He is
focused on getting money, and therefore he is playing with
the emotions of women. And that I is so disgusting

(13:37):
of that that it's the last thing that I can
understand from a man, that he is looking from the
head to the truth. But that is only I don't
I don't even know if he knows the who he is.

(14:02):
I don't think so he had something in his sad.
It's so uppen. Never seen a man like that. Oh no, no, no, no,
But I had in the beginning. I had trusted him too.
He is a very good speaker. He knows the emotion

(14:23):
of women. And I was not ridgy enough for you know,
And I was young. I was young when forty years
ago I had thirty thirty five years now and I
was alone. I was divorcing for me. He was interesting.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
He takes advantage of well, I guess women who are
divorcing or widows. It seems to be his mo o.
But you were the one who got away. Did he
ever try to take money?

Speaker 9 (14:54):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, I got away. I got away. But because I
was always always a free woman, My free will was
it is my character. I don't let someone else think
for me. I think for me and nobody else, fellow,

(15:17):
And that's that's what saved me. And I won't when
I am read here the story of missus Warner, I
think of the lady who has two children. I your butter.
It's better. It's better Marion, Marion will Well a sister,

(15:38):
she had money. Yeah, women, he he manipulates until they
are depending on him and they are not crazy, are
married or or have no own job, no own house,
or or the are older. Also also, I was young.

(16:01):
I was thirty and thirty five when I knew him,
I was strong. If I didn't, I didn't, I can't understand.
But Marion, I can understand her very very good because
he is a master of manipulation and she only is

(16:26):
playing with emotions. And if you are playing with the
emotions of an other old you you have very very
very possibilities to enslave him, you know the person. Yeah,

(16:48):
he has he can do that, he can manage that.
My god, my god.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I just want to say, you are extraordinary, Monique, and
you are an inspiration to all of us that you
have the courage to speak out about him.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
And I am Oh, yes, I have the courage. I
have it. That is not a courage, that is a
proud proud to say. You cannot do that with everybody.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
I tell Monique the inquest isn't over yet and ask
if she reconsider her decision not to appear.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
I cannot tell more, because forty years is a very
long time. And excuse me, madam, but I speak to
the police of mute those words. I have written emails

(17:51):
and ima image to us. They know everything I can say,
but I cannot faith and to out for that. And
I'm living alone here and in peace. I have forgotten
this man. I have forgotten it for me. He is

(18:12):
just dirt. He is dirt. He doesn't he doesn't have
the right to live. He has taken so many he's part.
He's fundamentally that. Don't touch him, you will burn your hands.

(18:34):
I can't say you and every rooman should be very afraid.
He should be in a poison for the rest of
his life. I hope so, I hope so. I hope
so even in the great in the tomb, when he
is buried, he will try to manipulate to get out

(18:55):
of there. I tell you, in life, when he opened
the mouth, that is a lie, that its manipulation. He
doesn't forget anything. I don't know what he has already done.
But nothing good, nothing good. No, I hope you can

(19:17):
understand me. He's out of my mind. He cannot touch
me anymore, he cannot hurt me anymore. For me, he
is dirt, just dirt you take and puts and put
anywhere where he can. He cannover get back anymore. He's

(19:40):
a bad man. Why he is so, He can tell
you thousands, thousands arguments why he has become like that,
And it tells the story of the jewels in the
Nazy time. He's parents have been burnt, his parents that

(20:05):
burnt in that scamps of the Nazi system. Nothing is true.
Everything he says, everything, every word, every breath is many pullation.
The coronal must be very strong and not be losing him.
He can cry from emotion. He can please theater. He

(20:30):
can You don't know what what your talenty is in
manipulation and for a good woman, a woman that is
vulnerable and innocent, for him that is not bringing nothing,

(20:54):
just money, money, money, money. He has no regrets. He
must have money, haven't He hasn't learned anything. He knows
how to manipulate with it, with his body, with his
bring with his money money money. You cannot imagine so profoundly.

(21:20):
And he can speak like an angel or Daville, depends
on the situation. He has a very big talent to maniput.
It never seen that in all my whole life, never
but profoundly, profoundly back.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
He stole your husband's identity too. That was one of
the many alias.

Speaker 10 (21:42):
I only know that I know that well.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
We were not together anymore, we were separated, divorced.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
But was it surprising to you that when you learned
that he'd stolen your ex husband's identity.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, that's what I didn't. At a certain moment, I
I thought that there's something wrong with this man. We
were in divorce, but we spoke. I spoke with my
husband and I said, I know there's something for someone

(22:22):
I don't I have. I don't believe him so many
I would like you to. I show you where he
is living, and to go to him and tell him something,
get in contact with him. And my husband did that

(22:43):
from it. He was a psychology and that's why he
said to him, imagine something saying that I have I
have sent you to him for this or all that.
And my husband and tech that and the other one

(23:04):
had to ary his dole at such visit his identity card.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
This was a bit confusing, but it sounds like Fernande
and Rick Blum did meet each other at least once.
We thought that fand was actually the one with Marion.
We mistook him for Frederick to Hellaberry and we're very sorry.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Yeah, of course, but they're Fredavari shows his real character.
You know, there is a man's life, a woman's life
count nothing. They are in this world just to give

(23:48):
him money. Yes, they're nothing. No person counts. And she
can speak like a man who got sugar, a very
set very He can change his personality perfectly from one
woman to the other.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
My last question because I don't want to hold you
up anymore because you have been amazing. It's so helpful,
and this would get justice for all his victims, including you,
because you were his victim. Even though you didn't give
him money. He tried to manipulate you and he's affected.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yes, yes, of course I know that now, and I
had a very long time to understand his character and
to be sure of what. But no, I am so
sure of what I say. I feel it. I see
it now. Even with the little brain I have, I

(24:50):
can analyze it. When he opens the mouse, I know
what she without speaking. I know what the rivided directions
is going. Actually I can't feel it. I can't feel it.
In the end, I could feel it and I I
was this dastic, this pastic, and that's why I went

(25:17):
to our police in Luxembourg and I said, I don't
know exactly what she is doing, but I could speak,
but I know nothing of concrete. You know that he
has done. I don't know something some bad things concrete.

(25:37):
If I've not seen something that I could say he
stole that or that or that.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
I never you have done so much in just talking
to me about this. And look you're right, no more,
no more. You have done enough. You have spoken enough
about that.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
That is what I don't do. Oh could fire my
mind with it because I'm in freedom and in peace
with my self, and I know not only missed my brain,
but with my whole body. Maybe I found a body
in my stomach, in my heart, in my head, everywhere.

(26:19):
I know that that man isn't worth to breathe in
this world. That I can't get. And that's no hate.
That is just because yeah, and I am sure that
he has done. He has it doesn't work, he earns

(26:40):
no money, He's still from everybody. But don't let him
out of prison. He is very capable of care.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
I know it.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
I know it's really hard for you very hard, very hard.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
But now I have found my freedom. If I had
not opened my mouth, I would never have discovered the truth.
That was well, the best thing that could happen to
me was this communication with the police detective unsold Tommy Sito. Yes,

(27:29):
that was the beast. I have psychologue chiply and in
my brain and in my heart and everywhere. I had
a chance to get out of that without any harm.
And I know I can't tell you why, because I
could not give him millions have I worked for my job.

(27:53):
In my job, I had a good life, but not
enough to satisfire that gangster. No. I think he was.
He loved me a little bit. I think so, But
that's why I did not. I always said I have

(28:17):
a brain, and I think for myself. I don't let
you think for me. Never, never I told him that.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, I just want you to know that, you know
it's speaking to me.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, I have done and I want my peace to madam.
I want my peace. I have close to that. I
have done the most I could do, but now I
want to be free of it. I cannot tell you
any thing more.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
There have been so many other ladies who have spoken
out like you. There's Janet Oldenburg and Elaine in Belgium
and his cousin, and that is very good.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
And a woman, I think that you can understand every work.
I tell you. That's the truth, madam, that's the truth.
I think if we women we must stick stick together,
we must stick together. We are very strong. We are
the strong because men. If we stick together, we are

(29:21):
more tangical, we are more intelligent. We can see much
more than a man who has one time only money, money, money, money.
I know him, madam, I know what he's capable. That's
why I want to close it.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
I then go on to tell me about this podcast
and how now the whole world knows about with Bloom
and what he's done.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
That is very good. And if one day you come
to Luxemburg, you will enjoy it. Come here, Come here.
I have an apartment over me that's empty. You can
live at my house in all the first stage FLA
for the one week, two weeks. I will surely in the.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Place that she was, Like Marion, Monique was a teacher,
but she specializes in languages, which explains why her English
is so good.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
I speak a much better French than English because I
have no exercised so well so, but lives me in
the dark as good as you can. I am now
an old lady and I want to get him out
of my mind. That's what I told him. I never

(30:41):
had told toward journalist, never, and I had many calls
for it broadcast stations. I never told a single word,
but now I totally because I'm strong. I have here
my police in Luxembourg, and I have the police in Australia.

(31:02):
If something happened to me, it was him.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Nothing will happen to him, Manique, mark my words. I
know this because I know Blum will never leave the country.
If he does, he won't be able to get back in.
More on that later.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
You are in a treasure to stick with you was
also not a pleasure. That was a good recapitulation. I
want him to be not on the surface of this work.

(31:39):
He must be. Just get out. He's in dag as
long as he rees believe me.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you, Monique, Thank you to a listen together.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Is strong.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I tried to call with Blum so I could put
to him the allegations Manique made again, but got his
answering machine message, so I text him this instead. Hello, Rick,
it's Alison Sandy from The Lady Vanish's podcast. I've undertaken
a long interview with Manique Cornelius. She says, you told
her when you were together that you had killed a person,

(32:16):
and you've done so with your own hands. I want
to give you the rite of reply. Is this true?
If not, why did you say that to her? This
will be on the next episode of the podcast being
released on Monday, So if you would like to respond,
please let me know before then. Kind regards Allison. Unsurprisingly,

(32:37):
I've heard nothing back. Not long before I spoke to Monique,
Brian caught up with blums a strange daughter, Evelyn Reed.
She is the daughter of Blum's third wife, Alona read
Nie Kinsel when he went by the name of Willie Wooters.
You may remember us telling you in an earlier episode

(33:00):
that Alona was found slumped dead over the steering wheel
of her car in nineteen seventy seven. There was no accident.
She did not crash her car. She simply died at
the will with the car intact on the roadside. It's
still unknown what precisely killed her, but it was said
it had something to do with her heart. She was

(33:20):
just thirty one. Evelyn was only seven years old at
the time.

Speaker 6 (33:30):
We have in the past trying to reach out to
Evelyn without success. In fact, with the police investigation going on,
we were advised to stay clear. It has only been
in recent times since she spoke with a journalist from
the Australian newspaper that she has also responded to us.
Now in her fifties, we found a friendly, kind and

(33:51):
forthright person, but one who is understandably guarded. Evelyn did
not want her conversation with me recorded and she does
not want her life to become the center of a
media frenzy because the idea of it distresses her. But
she has told me a number of shocking things about
her past and things that she knows because he was

(34:15):
absent throughout her childhood. When Evelyn was an adult, she
reached out to Rick Bloom on a couple of occasions
to try to find a connection and heal old wounds.
While he is on her birth certificate as Willie Wooters.
She found him through the Belgian consulate by the name
Frederic de Heeverari. Now Rick Bloom told the inquest that

(34:39):
he'd only ever seen Evelyn once when she was a newborn.
According to Evelyn, that is a lie. After meeting with
him many years ago, she was left feeling traumatized by
his stories of torture, death and poisoning. He spoke about
her mother, Ilona in a derogatory way, and she said

(35:01):
he described ways to poison people. So when he gave
her a bottle of champagne after one of their meetings,
she took it straight to the police, fearing that he
was trying to use it to poison her. She told
me that she was made to feel like she was
going crazy, that after spending a life feeling abandoned by

(35:23):
anyone who was meant to show her love, she now
had this idea that perhaps her own father had just
tried to kill her. She said that her interaction with
Rick Bloom made her question her ability to interpret reality,
that it tipped her over the edge. She went into
some kind of catatonic shock and she wasn't able to

(35:43):
speak to people for some time. Other family members reportedly
recalled Evelyn's fears when she received the champagne. Her half brother,
who has chosen to remain anonymous, told the Australian newspaper
he remembered specifically when Rick Bloom entered his sister's life
and that she felt unsafe around him. He said she

(36:05):
felt that the foil around the top of the champagne
bottle had been moved and the cork tampered with. In
the same article, The Australian's National Crime editor, David Murray
quoted another relative, Marika Messereer, who remembered warning Evelyn to
keep her money safe when she first met up with
her father, describing Rick Bloom as a con man. Miss

(36:28):
Messire also recalled that Evelyn's mother, Ilona Kinzel, was only
nineteen when she fell in love with mister Bloom, but
Ilona's mother was so suspicious she hired a private detective
who found out that Rick was married with children. In fact,
Rick Bloom, or Willie Wooters as he was then, had

(36:48):
already been married twice. Against her mother's advice, Ilona continued
the relationship until it ultimately failed for reasons that are unclear.
Then Ilona left for Australia and met someone new, but
Rick Bloom followed her. At the coronial inquest, mister Bloom

(37:10):
told the court he and Miss Coinsell married in early
nineteen sixty nine before he came on holiday to Australia.
Records show they were married on May tenth, nineteen sixty nine,
in Brussels. Just days later, they both traveled separately to Australia.
As Rick Bloom explained, now.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Because I came to Australia in April, I think, and
I was married before coming. She arrived in Sydney on
a migrant visa because that's what she wanted to do.
And I arrived in per fornatrice visa at that point
in tame who are married.

Speaker 6 (37:45):
Mister Bloom raised from Perth to Sydney to reconnect with Elona,
whom we suspect had left him, claiming he planned to
stay with her for a three month holiday, but you.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Way for the lady friend in brothers and the immigrated together,
except my wife was flun to Sidney whilst our girlfriend
came with a Greek ship. I staid with her for
the best part of two months, and then Ilona went
to Melbourne with another man and apparently she died in
a car accident or something like that.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
Evelyn told me she feels an emotional disconnect with the
word dad and refuses to see him as that. What
I can confirm is that She wants police to take
her statement, and she hopes by speaking out that it
will help others, because there are others. Evelyn is convinced

(38:43):
of that, and at least one of them is here
in Australia in Melbourne. She told me that one of
the last times she saw Rick Bloom, he had her
pick him up in her car. She remembers him laughing
about someone giving him for forty or fifty thousand dollars
when all they had was his mobile phone number, which

(39:05):
he could easily change. Evelyn says the very last time
she saw him was when she dropped him off at
an address in inner suburban Melbourne, possibly q or Hawthorne.
While she's only been in the company of Rick Bloom
relatively few times, each time she met with him, Evelyn

(39:27):
recalled being concerned by the things he had to say
to her, pretending to act dumb so he didn't notice
her reactions. She just wanted it all to go away.
We realize that speaking with us and other journalists has
caused anxiety for Evelyn and Evelyn. We are sorry for

(39:49):
your understandable pain, and we are full of admiration for
your bravery in coming forward to help others. Thank you
so much, Evelyn.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
We've always suspected that there are more women out there
who've fallen prey to Rick Blum's charms, being deceived and
robbed of much of their money. Now, thanks to Evelyn,
we believe there's at least one victim, possibly more in Melbourne, Australia.
We don't have any names or the name Rick Blum
may have been using at the time, and remember his

(40:26):
list of aliases continues to grow, possibly as many as
fifty now. But if you know of someone who was
scammed of large sums of money by a man who
seemed to disappear without a trace in the past twenty
or thirty or forty years, please get in touch with
us and report the matter to police. Our colleagues Tom

(40:50):
Riddell and Yannick Lambert at the Luxembourg Work and Belgian
journalist Peter Heiberrek have also been successful in tracking down
another of Blum's victims. You may recall last episode we
heard from Gulaine Dubois Danois she was jipped by Rick Blum,
a man she knew was Frederick, and had her life

(41:12):
savings taken by him before eventually she realized that she'd
been scammed. After telling her incredible story, she mentioned that
when she reported a case to police, she discovered that
there had been another victim in Tournay, Belgium. This other
woman had not only had her money taken from her,

(41:34):
but had dyed her hair blonde, traveled to Barley with
mister Blum and then been abandoned. To refresh your memory,
here's a snippet of what Gulaine Duois Danois had to say.

Speaker 11 (41:49):
For example, the lady from Tourna, she changed her hair
collar and he abandoned her Invalis.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
From what I know, I can.

Speaker 11 (41:56):
Only tell you what the Tourney police told me. When
she came back from Bali, she filed a reporting Tournay
since she lived there. She told them she had stopped
to have any contact with her family after he asked
her to, although her family helped her a lot since
she was in Bali couldn't understand any English, so you
can imagine, and she didn't have any money left because

(42:19):
he had taken everything, absolutely everything.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
It turns out that woman from Tornay had a reason
to trust Rick Blum. He was family. Remember how Rick
Blum told the inquest that the reason for his numerous
lengthy trips to Europe was to visit a cousin. It
seems he wasn't so much visiting his cousin, but his
cousin's lonely grieving widow, Tom Radell and Yannick Lambert tracked

(42:52):
her down and spoke with her, getting an incredible account,
while Belgian journalist Peter Heiberrek also reported on the story,
producing six pages of coverage in the Flemish daily newspaper
Nurse Blood. His front page spread revealed the many different
aliases of Rick Blum and photographs of him over the years.

Speaker 12 (43:13):
For me, it was not a big story till the
past couple of weeks was like whorld, Okay, this is
more far more huge than I've expected. I convinced my
editor and said, okay, this is a big story. We
have to work on it and we have to Yeah,
it was nice, but now we go full gus. There's
one big problem I told you about. My dream is

(43:36):
that the Belgium federal prosecutor will start an investigation. I said, okay,
let's try and dig in the Belgium part of this case.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
As Rick Blum's mother came from a large family, he
believes there will be plenty of people in Belgium who
may recognize his face or one of his names.

Speaker 10 (43:53):
He still has family. I mean that they're a big
family apparently because his mother she had a lot of
siblings and there's a lot of cousins and aunts and
nephews and whatnot. And can you imagine being part of
this community and you go to the Tourney gas station
and you see this front page. I mean that puts

(44:14):
the pressure, right.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
I recently spoke with Peter, Tom and Yannick via zoom
about how their investigations are going.

Speaker 12 (44:21):
Lovely to meet you all virtually, Good afternoon, Good morning everyone.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
You've obviously been working on a little bit as longer
Tom and Yannick and then Peter, you've sort of been
brought into it. How what did you think when you
first learned about it?

Speaker 12 (44:35):
Well, actually it was Tom who contacted me a few
months ago, I guess, And from the first meeting we had,
I was like, okay, I was really surprised, and like,
as a journalist, it's like, this is a huge story
you have to investigate, and I was quite impressed about
to work.

Speaker 10 (44:54):
So actually I was, they're quite impressed.

Speaker 12 (44:57):
And then we started together to that's the Belgian part
of Billy Waters and Rick Bloom and that was quite
fascinating for a journalist, or for a crime journalist like me.
So yeah, it's an unbelievable story and we have to
keep on going for the next couple of years.

Speaker 10 (45:16):
I guess. Yeah. I somehow managed to get him into
the story without him thinking I was completely insane or something,
because the story itself, when you tell somebody about it
for the first time, or when you try to give
a rundown what this story is all about. After a

(45:37):
few minutes, when you hear yourself talking, you think this
can't be right. This is so so extraordinary, with that
many pathways where it's going. But luckily Peter believed me
so to speak.

Speaker 12 (45:52):
Yeah, and it's quite a difficult story with all the
fifteen names and all the countries he's been traveling too.
So yeah, it's been quite a work, but it's it's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Well, I think that's the same with here. I mean,
I guess that's why it's been so hard to initially
get out the media to jump on board with it,
because it is so bizarre. And Tom Brian met you
back in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 13 (46:21):
Yeah, and I was peripherally involved at the time because
I was sat in the office with my editor in
chief who had also met Brian. But I wasn't involved
in the story just then. And so yeah, I guess
we but I've been aware of it, and so we've
been sitting on it for some time and we couldn't
really get anywhere with it. And I think it was
I think it was the beginning of last year we

(46:42):
just decided that let's get in like an initial like
story out where we just right about the links we
know between Rick Bloom, Frederica Hadavari whatever his name is,
and Luxembourg. And I think that was the good decision
to just do that, like without like doing like a
Troup investigation. But that led to, you know, other people
like Gillen's daughter in law contacting us, and so we

(47:03):
were getting somewhere. So we started getting some I guess
visibility for the story.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Tom and Yannick met the widow of Rit Blum's cousin
and her son in a restaurant in Belgium. She didn't
want her real name used or to be recognized in photos,
as only close family members know what happened. It was
her son who convinced her to share her story in
the hope that this fraud stuff may be brought to justice.
So they settled on a pseudonym Charlotte and photographed her

(47:33):
from behind. Tom and Yannick learned that Charlotte was sixty
when our husband of forty years mckel died in twenty eleven.
They had had a full life together, a grown up
son and grandchildren. While she was still working, Michel had
left her financially secure. Although family members took great care

(47:54):
of Charlotte. Eventually, over time, everyday life returned, but Charlotte's
life and home were a lot emptier and lonelier than before. However,
there was one family member who continued to keep in touch,
sending cards and calling often. He provided a sympathetic ear

(48:16):
and was willing to listen. That person from Australia, cousin
Willie aka Rick Blum, was related to Charlotte's late husband.
While he wasn't someone Charlotte really knew, her husband had
spoken of this cousin. After eight months of conversation, in

(48:37):
March twenty twelve, cousin Willie came to visit, apparently to
keep her company during her time of grief. He convinced
her to take a trip to Bali with him because
he told her she needed to get away, and she thought,
why not take a vacation with a relative. It wasn't
long before one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of

(48:59):
cash and valuables were taken, including Charlotte's wedding ring, a
valuable stamp collection and a coin collection worth about twenty
five thousand euros. Cousin Willie failed to return from a
business appointment and Charlotte found herself abandoned in Bali. After

(49:19):
managing to get home to Belgium, she reported to police
in April twenty twelve, only to be told that it
was unlikely cousin Willie would be extradited from Australia.

Speaker 10 (49:32):
There's a difference in her case from the other cases
we know in that he was family so to speak.
He is the cousin of her late husband, so he
sent postcards every year for Christmas from holidays. She actually
gave us one postcard from Ballei, which has nothing to
do with her trip to Bali, but was earlier when

(49:53):
one he sent to his cousin, so basically he was
already someone for her. That still doesn't explain in my opinion,
there's still the open question. I'm not a psychologist, I'm
not a forensics expert. I don't have too much expertise
or experience with those fraud cases. But in my opinion,

(50:14):
there's still this huge question of how did this guy
make it happen to approach people who within weeks give
him like six figure amounts of money in cash with
highly dubious pretexts like let's buy a house in Bali
together and we split the cost fifty to fifty. But
it needs to be in cash because of customs or

(50:36):
taxes or whatever. Just trust me, it will be all right.
Because he was a professional, they didn't have much of
a chance for this thing to go any other direction. Apparently,
if you just watch it from the result or from
the end, it's incredible how efficient he was with this
kind of stick. Yeah, he was on a mission. Still,

(50:58):
how can it be that this guy gets that bag
of money in no time?

Speaker 13 (51:03):
Basically, Yeah, what I would edit is as well as
like with Charlotte, of course the relationship was different between
her and Bloom, but also the way we talked to her.
It came about in a very different way than than
the previous woman and Gillian Donois, because she contacted us
Delian or Gillian's daughter in law at first, so she

(51:24):
was like very open to talk to us as well,
whereas with wish a Lot, we had identified her based
on certain elements that we've been aware of, and she
was an initially very reluctant to talk to us. She
didn't pick up the phone, and she thought we were
trying to scam her with multiple phone calls something like that.
So but it was actually her, her son, who convinced

(51:44):
it to talk to us. And of course she was
maybe at first a bit more reserved in her relationship
to this whole story, but she she opened up and
I think she she she knew it was important for
her to reveal what had happened to her without feeling
her full identity, of course, which which we respected, so
which is totally understandable because it's such a difficult experience

(52:07):
to talk about.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Is she more traumatized do you think, then, Gulane? I mean,
obviously they're all got an element of trying to recover from,
you know, such an awful you know, like it's because
these predators they really aim to attack their vulnerability, right,
and and and they were all widows or single, so

(52:34):
it's it's one of those things that you get lonely
and you want to believe, right. So I guess with
with her though, was she did she, you know, seem
to struggle more with it?

Speaker 10 (52:46):
Do you think?

Speaker 13 (52:46):
I think it's difficult for me to say. I think
that's not something she opened up about. I think it's
hard to keep in mind that her experience was more
recent than the other ones, so maybe it's it's more
and more present to her still. And also because I
think she was fine with not talking about it at all,
and that's kind of how she managed to move on.
That was my impression at least, So this kind of

(53:09):
opened new wounds for her, whereas the other ones, Gilane
seemed much more maybe proactively a certain in that regard.
So that's all I can say. Whether she'd been more
traumatized and the other I don't know. I think they
were both pretty badly affected by it, but I think
it's difficult to compare to the things, at least from
my perspective.

Speaker 10 (53:27):
Yeah, I think the family thing comes into play here
once more, because when we were discussing how we would
anonymize her name or how much of her identity we
could reveal, whether she would like we had the photographer
only taking pictures where you can see her from behind.
She was saying something like, well, it's not so much

(53:50):
for me, but it's still it's the name that my
son and it's my son's family, right, So, because she
could distance herself from that part of the family because
it was basically her cousin in law, but she was
she cared for her son's family name if you will,

(54:11):
or identity and son. Well, he didn't seem like it
faced him too much or basically he was all game
with her to talk about it, et cetera. But there
was her reason to say to us, please leave my
or please get me another name, so to speak, right
for the story, and that's I think that's still the

(54:31):
big difference between those two women. As for trauma, I
couldn't say either. I mean, we only met her for
like three hours. It's hard to tell.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
What about some of the other stuff that's come out,
you know, the poisons. Obviously you probably saw the latest
article over here with this seeming obsession with poisons. You'd
know about Alona Kingsley's third wife dying in a bizarre way.
I mean, do you think it could be more sinister then?

Speaker 13 (54:57):
I guess just for I think it's also difficult to
save for us. But there certainly are many more elements
or proplines to be discovered, and even here in Luxembourg
we have a couple of leads. Not'ssarily more sinister ones,
but that point towards involvement in other types of frog.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Perhaps we're hoping that as a result of Tom and
Yannick's reports in German, English and French, and Peter's stories
in Flemish, that there may be more people who come forward.

Speaker 10 (55:25):
We didn't do too deep of a dive into the
community thing yet, but I see us coming back to
Belgium maybe one or two more times.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Tom in Yannick discovered that the reason Charlotte dyed her
hair blonde is because cousin Willie arranged it while they
were in Bali.

Speaker 10 (55:41):
He booked her the fullwareness treatment and the fact that
he told the hairdresser what color to get. It's not
her that told him that. According to Charlotte, that's entirely
because she didn't speak English. So basically he managed all
the appointments, and then he told the hairdresser about the color,
and then she was kind of shocked when they actually

(56:02):
went through with it. So she literally said, I looked
like a canary. And her son said, well, yeah, that's true.
I didn't recognize my mother when I picked her up
from the airport, But he said it jokingly in a way.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Charlotte said she never saw cousin Willie again after that
hairdressing appointment. There has been conjecture about why Rick Blum
has wanted women to change their hair color. Remember he
wanted Janet Oldenburg to dye her hair blonde too, but
her hairdresser refused. Did mister Blum have a preference for blondes?

(56:38):
Was he trying to disguise someone's identity, or was there
a more sinister reason linked to poisons. But think about this.
Bleaching one's hair at the hairdresser can take a good
couple of hours, and if the hair is quite dark
and thick, the bleaching process can take even longer. Perhaps

(56:58):
mister Blum wanted these women to have lengthy hair appointments
so he could buy time and do things without the
women knowing. That's the conclusion that Yannick and Tom came
to it was.

Speaker 10 (57:11):
Kind of a cover story in the sense of, yeah,
I'm sorry I have to leave overnight, but I'll be
back tomorrow. You go to the hairdresser and to spind
the massage and have a good time. I'm and also
maybe while you while you're sitting in that hairdresser's chair
waiting for your hair to be dyed, you don't go anywhere.
You don't you don't do anything else in terms of

(57:33):
trying to find out where he is or whether everything's okay.
You don't have access to a telephone maybe during that time.
So basically he bought himself some time, I suppose with
this whole thing similar to what she also told us
about the one with the safe combination. So basically all
her papers or photocopies of her travel documents were in

(57:55):
the hotel safe in her room, but he had the combination.
It wasn't quite clear whether she never had it or
whether he changed it before he left, but in any event,
she couldn't access her travel documents for like two days
until he sent the email to the hotel. So that's
also basically along those same lines of buying himself time
and freezing her in the hotel, so to speak, and

(58:18):
in my opinion, the hair dyeing goes into that category
much more than into any poison category. Maybe combine this
with like a control freaked thing, so it's him who
decides what his women look like. But that's also very speculative,
and again I'm not a psychologist.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
It wasn't long after that hair appointment that Charlotte realized
she'd been left high and dry in Bali. She couldn't
speak English or Indonesian.

Speaker 13 (58:45):
I think she realized fairly quickly what was happening, and
she had difficulties accessing her belongings in the hotel. But
the hotel was sent by Rick Bloom the code to
open the safe, so she was able to retreat a documents.
And one of the issues she had in Bali was
obviously she did she didn't speak English or didn't speak

(59:06):
it very well at all, so she had to She
likely found the local tour guy who spoke French more
or less fluently, oh help her to get out of
get out of the country. So it took us some time,
so she was able to get to get back and
to return to Belgium, where she i don't remember the
exact time, but she almost right away I think fired
the report with the police that she'd been defrauded.

Speaker 10 (59:28):
Yeah. Three days after she returned, she went to the police.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Cousin Willie apparently left her a message that he'd taken
her money because her late husband owed him. It was
the first time she'd ever heard such a thing from
Rick Blum, and she couldn't recall her husband, Michel, who
had an exemplary career in banking, ever saying he owed
anything to his cousin in Australia.

Speaker 10 (59:50):
And there's another thing about this email to the hotel.
In the email to the hotel, he explained to her
that he took the money because her late husband owed
it to him, supposedly, And she said that can't be
right because he never mentioned it and I don't know
anything about it. And then it bawned on her that
she's been had so to speak. Yeah, and then she

(01:00:13):
she decided to get back home as quickly as possible
and go to the police. And also in the police
pilot says when she came back home, she discovered that
she had been robbed because stuff was missing from her apartment.

Speaker 13 (01:00:25):
Like stem stamp collection, jewelry, and we have reached.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Out to Charlotte via Tom and Yannick, but so far.

Speaker 10 (01:00:32):
She's not been in touch, not yet, I'm afraid, so
we'll try again, but I haven't heard back yet. I
send an I sent an email to her son explaining
that everything is published now and send him a link
to the to our French translation and explaining who you
are and what she could expect from talking to you,

(01:00:55):
et cetera. But also, I mean, we talked about you guys,
and about the whole the whole publication history of the
whole case already, so she I think she knew what
she was into when she talked to us. But yeah,
I haven't heard back yet. Can be for whatever reason.

Speaker 6 (01:01:11):
So so what did Rick Bloom have to say about
these latest allegations. I tried calling mister Bloom, but I
was diverted to his answering service. It seems he's had
enough of talking to me. We did send a seven
News reporter along to his home in East Ballina to ask.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Rick, are you concerned about the evidence that's building up.

Speaker 6 (01:01:31):
We caught up with mister Bloom and his wife, Diane
as they walked up to their house as usual, mister
Bloom remained quiet. Are you worried that you might be
arrested soon? So was Diane, although she did tell the
crew to go away.

Speaker 10 (01:01:49):
Rick.

Speaker 6 (01:01:54):
Anyway, back now to Allison and her chat with our
European colleagues Tom Yannick and the thanks Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
After his articles were published, Peter was contacted by another woman,
but it turned out to be a false lead. At
this stage, from our understanding, there's no official investigation underway
in Belgium.

Speaker 10 (01:02:13):
So I contacted.

Speaker 12 (01:02:15):
I sent my articles and also the articles published in
Luxembourg and some Australian articles to the Federal Justice Department
here and I'm still waiting for an answer if they
will start an investigation in Belgium. I hope so, but
it's not clear actually at the moment, At this moment,
there's no real Belgium investigation going on. So in Belgia

(01:02:38):
really have to find a prosecutor with the same interest
like us, who really wants to dig in that story,
in that old story. But there are plenty other things
to do in Belgium to solve then going after Rick
Plumus on the other side of the world. So yeah,
it's difficult, but we have to try.

Speaker 10 (01:03:00):
We published a little call for witnesses so to speak,
and said do you remember this man under the following
names which were relevant to Luxembourg in our opinion, and
also with based names like Sane.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
They've received messages from one man who remember playing soccer
with Fernande Remarkael as a child, and others from people
who remember the furniture store Rick Blum operated in Luxembourg.
Then there were a few people who recalled an Australian
television crew being in town a few years back, which
was likely Brian and Sally, and someone who suggested Rick

(01:03:35):
Blum's furniture shop may also have been involved in some
shady business.

Speaker 10 (01:03:40):
It shows us that people read the story and that
they actually made the right connections in a way. But
it's nothing in there that you didn't already know.

Speaker 13 (01:03:48):
What is interesting about this shop that I just wanted
to beily mention is that before that I spoke to someone,
a reliable source from that village where I'm also actually from,
that knew the shop that apparently he sold stolen goods
in that furniture store, and I think that is something
that we want to investigate a bit further as well.
Where did you get these antiquities from? And how long

(01:04:11):
did the shop operate forward? Who has knew something of
the shop. So that's the lead I'm really trying to
follow now, so maybe it will reveal some more. Yeah,
I think there's all There were other reports from the
time that we can't fully tie to him yet, but
I think there's indications that he might have been involved
in maybe something more organized and something a bit larger,

(01:04:31):
But who knows so well.

Speaker 10 (01:04:34):
One thing, one thing we need to be careful with
also is what Charlotte told us. It's a furniture business,
a furniture family business, as in they make their own furniture,
so it's new furniture so far as seats, whatever, furniture.
But it's not necessarily an antique store that went down

(01:04:58):
in that he operated in a But the source Jick
was referring to actually said he sold couches that weren't his.
So so it can be both, of course, But according
to family history, because they would know Charlotte and her
son would know about these things. They said, the parents

(01:05:18):
already had a furniture a little factory making furniture and
selling it back in the day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
I suggest that Blum is like the original Tinder Swindler,
referring to the British crime documentary about a real life
fraudster who tricked women he met on Tinder into giving
him money, except without the Tinder.

Speaker 13 (01:05:37):
It's interesting that you mentioned the Tinnersoner. We've watched it
the other day and I just the paralys it's just
so striking. It's it's actually, yeah, it fits perfectly almost.
I would say it's kind of the pre digital Tinder Swindler,
so without dating apps, but the kind of the methods
very similar. And I guess there's there's some differences of course,

(01:05:58):
in that the original Tin the Tinder Swindler of the documentary,
he's been promising this like, you know, fantastic wealthy lifestyle,
which Room hasn't been doing so much. It's just like
kind of been advertising exoptic destinations, so to speak. And
but yeah, I know it's very interesting also, I think
psychologically to compare compared to each other, well, is that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
That whole starting a new life thing and an adventure.
But also at the same time he gets them out
of their comfort zone, right, so if he gets into
Bali or you know, out of their home territory. They
rely completely on him, so it's it's you can see
why it worked.

Speaker 10 (01:06:35):
That's actually also one of those things with Charlotte that
don't make that much sense, because apparently she gave him
the money while they were still in Belgium. So why
still take her to Bali would be my question. You
just you arrived at your target. Basically you're being handed

(01:06:55):
two bags with fifty thousand euros each. What else can
you want? Why still go to Bali and do all
the Bali stuff other than maybe exercising control or disorienting
your victim. Yeah, apparently, he asked her. At one point,
he asked her whether she still had the passport of

(01:07:16):
her late husband, which she refused. So she said, in Belgium,
when you die, your passport is being sent back to
the authorities and is destroyed. I guess, and I'm not
even sure if that is true, but that's what she
told him. So bottom line, he couldn't have the passport

(01:07:36):
or of her late husband for whatever reason. He could
have copied her documents from the safe. Of course, he
might have had some advantage of her going to Bali
or not. I don't know. It just struck me as
a bit odd when you have one hundred thousand euros
already to go to all the trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
It does seem odd to take Charlot to Bali if
he already has the money. But perhaps there was something
else he wanted. Perhaps it was a way to delay
her reporting him to authorities, leaving her abandoned in a
foreign country, having defend for herself and find her own
way home. Like us, Tom Yannick and Peter want to

(01:08:14):
know what's happening with the inquest. While with made inquiries
with the Coroner's office, at this stage we still don't know.

Speaker 10 (01:08:21):
Maybe a stupid question.

Speaker 12 (01:08:23):
Is it an option that we passed the numbers of
gy Len and Charlotte to the to the prosecutor, or,
to the to the police, the Australian police, or is
it not an option or.

Speaker 10 (01:08:33):
K Len's I think already? I think. I think gi
Len's daughter and lawyers in contact with the Australian Police.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
As far as I Tom Yannick and Peter are sure
as chase up any leads they find around the other
stories they have to pursue.

Speaker 13 (01:08:47):
I also know of another store that apparently had issues
with Rick Blum, so that's we've been seeing. I'm planning
on talking to the owners of that store as well
in Luxembourg and maybe something else can can image from
that foot. Yeah, we'll keep the update at there's a
few potential leads, so I'm sure that we will discover more.

Speaker 6 (01:09:08):
Another thing. We are also in talks with podcast groups
overseas looking at ways to have The Lady Vanishes translated
into other languages across parts of Europe. But it's very
early stages, and Sally is making progress on her plan
to set up a support group for victims.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Hello, Hello, how are you?

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
She and Allison met up recently with Janet Oldenburg. The
first discussion topic is Peter's article from Belgium.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
So they're all, well, when I did my report in
the first place back in two thousand, it was it
was only twenty five alis names. Yes at the inquest
and he was about thirty ars or more and now yeah,

(01:10:12):
the same now, so yeah, he certainly cropped up. And
I had to laugh at the inquest because he was asked,
why have you got so many earlies names? And you
just shrugged his shoulders and then he said, well to
get away from my part. But little does he realize
it was just me at the whole world knows now.

Speaker 14 (01:10:32):
So plast is catching up.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
It makes me say, looking at my mum.

Speaker 5 (01:10:37):
And that photo, yeah, I know, I know so many
good people from behind the scenes helping.

Speaker 14 (01:10:46):
I'm glad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I'm glad.

Speaker 4 (01:10:48):
Oh you are okay, like you you know, you met
him as well. And I'm glad that I was thinking
about this the other day, and I'm glad by me
pushing and pushing, pushing, going something's wrong. I know something
it's not right here, or found people like yourself and
like Gislaine and Jeanette down in Sydney, and multiple people

(01:11:13):
who have come forward now. And you know, when the
police didn't really take you guys too seriously, I feel,
you know, like you go and you do your statement
and then that's just sort of all that happens. Some
people like myself didn't even get to give a statement
until twenty two years later.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
You've got other.

Speaker 14 (01:11:30):
Women who have just been fogged off as oh it
was just you know, you're being silly.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
And you know, I'm happy that I've had a chance
by telling my story and finding everybody that everyone's had
a chance to tell their story of what happened, because
it's not a nice thing to happen, No, regardless of
what level it is, it's not nice, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:53):
Well, when the I realized he'd stolen things, my deeds again,
I called in the police. But while I was waiting
for them, I wrote down everything that we'd been, what
was said, where we traveled, what time the planes everything,
and so bothered, Hell is that that you did that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:12:16):
And then policeman went back to the station and then
he said, oh and he rang me up and he said, oh,
detectives interested in your case.

Speaker 14 (01:12:27):
Yeah, well but they didn't pursue much from there.

Speaker 7 (01:12:32):
They did that.

Speaker 5 (01:12:32):
They just took your statement. And that's what.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
I mean, like, there's just no follow through and this
is where we're at now doing their thing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Well, I thought the same. I went to the police.

Speaker 12 (01:12:44):
I thought that she would.

Speaker 14 (01:12:46):
Actually do things.

Speaker 4 (01:12:47):
And then I got a call a week later saying
that they'd spoken to my mum and she didn't want
anyone to know where.

Speaker 5 (01:12:53):
She was or what she was doing.

Speaker 14 (01:12:55):
So as a twenty four year old, I was like, Okay,
what do I do now?

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
And you know, so I passed it over to.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
My grandfather, and said, what's your advice? Like I still
felt quite young, and I'm like not very knowledgeable in
the world of the web, the world, and you know,
I've certainly learned a lot of course.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Now, yes, you believe though that this man is capable
of what we now have found out.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
Well, I tend to believe what's in there because it's
come to light with everything, and some of it correlates
to Okay, the trip to Barley, for instance, that he
undertake me to give me a nice time and all this,
but he kept going off making home calls and things,

(01:13:44):
and so I didn't see much of him at at
the time. And what did he do in Amsterdam as well?

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
And what did you think about when you heard that
he got somebody else to dye their hair blonde?

Speaker 5 (01:14:00):
Yeah, although I didn't die blonde, but yeah, because I
went to the hairdressers he wanted me to get, you know,
and she couldn't do it because it was too much,
too dark, because I was a dark ground.

Speaker 14 (01:14:12):
Then that I instantly thought of you when I heard
Charlotte we're calling her when she mentioned that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
She had her hair dyed blond and he'd booked her
in and then her son actually said that when he
went picked her up from the airport, she was so
unrecognizable with her hair, he didn't recognize her.

Speaker 14 (01:14:33):
Oh, dear, that's quite telling, don't you think.

Speaker 5 (01:14:35):
Like, yes, yes, it's a pattern, definitely a pattern.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Us Is there any suspicionist why he's getting I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
I don't be making assumptions, you know, like we don't
know for sure. He'd be the person to answer that question,
but it seems a bit odd to me, especially with
Janet's situation where she was getting a new passport.

Speaker 14 (01:14:57):
Seems a bit weird to me that somebody might try
and get you to change your hair color.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
Yes, I don't know, Like if you actually think about
it as well, if you are changing your appearance and
going to a different country and then into Paula trying
to find you, if you're missing very old.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:15:21):
Like this?

Speaker 9 (01:15:22):
Yeah, when I did my.

Speaker 5 (01:15:25):
Report, and of course one of the things you said,
when I was over in Hope bringing at my cousins
and he was supposed to ring, and then he didn't,
and then the following day he did and he said, oh,
I said, how are you? He said, oh, oh, not
very well. I'm in the hospital, I said, where, He said,
lil And, and they'd been bashed up with guys with

(01:15:48):
six baseball bats and everything was stolen, which meant, I
think in his bag, in his briefcasey type bag. But
it was a cross one. And and actually when I
did the report to the police, they actually checked out
into pol and there was nobody in the hospitals by
that name in Little mm hmm, So that was a lie.

Speaker 15 (01:16:14):
Yeah, there's a lot of lies, a lot of just
Jimmy rock up to your house like when you were home,
and he didn't have any didn't look like he'd been
hit with six faces.

Speaker 5 (01:16:25):
He came up the driveway in his singlet trailers and
singlet and in his usual basebook cat Facebook cat white one,
and he he got to the driver all these glasses
by the way were just you know, a bit broken
at the side, you know, to give the impression, and

(01:16:47):
I reckon, you know, and I said, oh, you know,
only he got there, stopped and went like this sight
and then I in retrospect with now from what I
know later you later, Yeah, it was just oh my goodness,

(01:17:12):
I can't get no house. And and yeah, but I
think even the barrister the inquest tweet that he was
there to off my house. He thought I was still away,
and he dropped in at my friends as right, he
dropped in at my friends because one day when I
had to drive into Ballina and my friend, I just said, oh,

(01:17:37):
I just opted in at my friends of the road
and he you know, my friend saw him and she
just said to me it was a funny thing, she said,
She said, be careful, and I introduced him. I said, oh,
this is rick car. He didn't get out and so
therefore and it was funny words. But he knew. Did

(01:18:00):
I drop keys into her? Always if I was going
away anywhere, I dropped a set of keys in case
I lost the keys or something like that. And I
said to her later after I twigged everything and all this,
and I said to it over, oh, did he did
he call in to see you or anything? She's because
she told me he said where's jan And she said, well,

(01:18:26):
she's home. And I said, what was his expression like?
And she said, oh, it was just sort of so
I just rolled his eyes, you know, because he doesn't
show much expression. He's very cool, calm, and yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:18:44):
This is the first time you mean, jan can you
tell me about how you're feeling. This is Janet obviously
had very similar movements as.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
Yeah, I'm extremely grateful to you and very touched that
you guys actually were brave enough to come and speak
at the inquest and say your peace and say your
memory of what's happened, because it's really giving my mum
a voice as well. And I think for you particularly

(01:19:16):
out of everyone, and now Galaine, who we've just met
and we've just found out, the three of you in
litting my mum all had very similar situations. So the traveling,
like Jonie and I sat there with a map and
actually pinpointed exactly where you went and exactly where my
mum went, and it's.

Speaker 5 (01:19:36):
Pretty much in reverse.

Speaker 4 (01:19:39):
So just little tiny things like that have given me
an opportunity, whereas four years before I go before we
did the podcast and people were starting to take interest
in what I was saying because for years I kept
telling people. People knew, my friends knew that my mum
was missing, and I would tell them what had happened.
And you know, there's been quite a bit of tragedy

(01:20:01):
with my brother and you know, all that sort of
jazz as well. And I think so many of my
friends were like, wow, this is a book. You know,
you need to tell your story because this is I
just can't believe what you're telling me, Like it just
doesn't make any sense. And I always just had a
gut feeling that after seeing the man in the car
with her at the McDonald's, I just knew something wasn't

(01:20:23):
quite right when she didn't come back. And then I
found out about the name change not thirteen years later.
So it's been a very long road for me. But
you know, since we've done the podcast and all the
people have come about saying, oh my gosh, I'm so
happy that I've been able to tell my story because

(01:20:44):
we found you, we found Glaying, we found Jeanette. By
doing that, and people are actually sitting up, people who
needed to are now sitting up and listening to what
I'm trying to say in that something. Something has happened
to my mum. Something is wrong with this pitch. So
we need to find her, and we need to find
out what's happened to her, not just for my benefit,

(01:21:07):
but for my kids, my husband, her family. You know,
I'm doing this for a multitude of people and a
multitude of reasons. So so I am really grateful for
you talking to us and you know, becoming part of the.

Speaker 14 (01:21:24):
Family that we've now created. Yeah, through the Blady Vanishers.

Speaker 5 (01:21:29):
So what's next.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
An opportunity to team up all these victims of love.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
This man.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Has touched so many lives in the worst possible way.

Speaker 5 (01:21:43):
Of course.

Speaker 14 (01:21:44):
Well, I think it would be very healing to personally.

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
You know, I'm hearing more things even today yesterday about
how people having a voice is healing part of the
journey for them. You know, they've they've said their piece
at the beginning, they've been pushed to the side, or
it's just been forgotten about. And you know, it's not
a nice thing, not a nice thing what happened to

(01:22:09):
you and to the others as well, you know, like
I don't know what's happened to my mum. That's the
scary part about it and the sad part about it,
and that's why we keep digging. But you know, it's
not nice what's happened. So I think it would be
very healing. Like I've wanted to meet with you for
such a long time and just say thank you for you. Yeah,

(01:22:33):
and we're just fortunate that we both live here in
Brisbane so we've had a chance to catch up. But
you know, I think Jonie even said to me the
other day how great it would be to get everyone
together in some sort of forum and just you know,
not even a forum that sounds too fabricated, but let's
just come in together, have a cup of tea, have

(01:22:53):
a hug and actually just you know, it's strength in numbers.

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
I say this a lot, Yeah, especially for you.

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
Yeah, I've got so many people who care now, which
is really lovely because for so long outside of Chris.

Speaker 14 (01:23:08):
And obviously yeah, there's lots of people who who care
enough and check in with me. People send me messages
even this morning thinking of you. I hope you're okay.

Speaker 4 (01:23:18):
Gosh, this must be crazy roll the post of few.
But it's just nice to know that people do care.
And it's also the embarrassment. I mean, we have that
certain Ginett.

Speaker 14 (01:23:29):
And Mane, but also now Benique and Yeah, and.

Speaker 16 (01:23:35):
I mean everyone's indicated, which is great, but that group,
don't you think, as you say, it's a healing group,
but you know it's something that might help to be
able to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Obviously, Gilaine only speaks French, and I think Charlotte does too.

Speaker 9 (01:23:51):
But if we have interpretre, is it something that you
can do a sort of zoom chatter or even that's
something that you can patch up.

Speaker 5 (01:24:00):
I don't know, just to say where it's happening.

Speaker 14 (01:24:03):
Yeah, yeah, well I hope to.

Speaker 5 (01:24:06):
I want to go to Belgium.

Speaker 4 (01:24:08):
I've told everybody that from funds that were created, which
I feel very blessed but very embarrassed at the same time,
that that will happen. But I just said, maybe Jonie
and I will go together and we will actually go
and meet these people and meet the boys over in

(01:24:30):
Belgium who have been helping tell the story and you know,
live and breathe it now over there as well, and
just to say thank you and just to meet them
in person.

Speaker 14 (01:24:38):
And you know, I think that's healing for me through
this process.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
Because I definitely feel like I know what's happened to
my mum in my heart. But yeah, I think that
would be nice. I mean, it would be nice if
we could all get together, but obviously it's hard when.

Speaker 5 (01:24:58):
People across the world as well. That's something that with
a group of victims. Yes, yes, I'd be in that yes,
how do you another wone?

Speaker 2 (01:25:09):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
Oh great, I'm very surprised that everything that he's done,
he's a great manipulator. All right, I'll agree to that.
But I just got on with life and whatnot. But
I did go through my mind at times I wonder,

(01:25:30):
what's you know, he's going to be caught and all
this sort of thing, but my life. I did move
from New South Wales. I thought, no, I needed to
get out of there. After that, I feel a lot
stronger of a sort of doing that report. It's a
sixteen page report. So I'm glad I did. That's are

(01:25:54):
to empowerment. It's like an empowerment and the should put
it there and hopefully who's going to stop and help others? Yes, yes,
if I can in this all this this has happened
and that yeah, And to talk to those people just
like it's all calming down for them and understanding and

(01:26:16):
all the love surrounding everything that's healing. Some of them,
like Janet, seem very shamed. You don't be ashamed defeating yourself,
be strong, speak peace and just know that you're going
to do now, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:26:37):
For those that way that are feeling still a bit
like that, I think, you know, they need to know
that we are here and we are strong, and.

Speaker 5 (01:26:45):
Oh, yeah, you know, we've got a voice to Yeah.
I think I would have felt worse if you'd have
managed to get my house, I think. But there's a
lot of women out there that they just had a
lot of money stolen from them.

Speaker 14 (01:26:57):
Yeah, you know, and I think you've got locked at
with that.

Speaker 5 (01:27:02):
Yeah, that part of it. The detective of the day
did say, oh, you got off lightly to shame. He
doesn't show looking at the inquest. He just shrugs everything off. Oh,
it's just an every day occurrence to him. Oh no
he didn't do it. Oh no, no he did.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:27:24):
He's not even remorseful at all. Very cruel man mentally.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
Well, I don't have any updates for anybody at this point.
It's I would assume, based on what we were told
in November, that they will potentially be doing more investigation.
I mean I would I would hope, realistically to make
a decision on whether someone is alive or dead, that

(01:27:52):
we would potentially have all those witnesses give statements talk
to the coroner, because I want the coroner to have
all the information possibly camp.

Speaker 10 (01:28:01):
Yes, Last.

Speaker 5 (01:28:03):
Love us. Well, yes, I'd like him to be didn't
put in jail and lived there for the rest of
his life. Getting out's too good for him. I mean,
I don't need to be nasty, but of course I've
got to find some evidence and all this business with
poisons and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
But he's given how much evidence of all at the very.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
Least, even if you take my mum out of the picture.
Let's say, let's just park Marian being missing over in
this side.

Speaker 5 (01:28:38):
Of the park.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
You've got a situation where we've been able to prove
lies like Renoff Pubs is a perfect example. He sat
there and said point blank he had nothing to do
with that company. Yet his name's all over the documents
that we were able to prevent provide the court. There's
but there's links to Alona kinsell or her applications coming

(01:29:04):
to Australia was the address of and of pubs in Belgium.
You know, so I struggle a lot with That's one
example of probably five that I could go off the
top of my head. That frustrates me because regardless of anything,
that's a purge charge in my opinion. And then you've
also got the citizenship application that doesn't sit well with

(01:29:27):
me because I have seen handwritten documents out of the
National Archives file that say that he should have been
convicted under the Citizenship Act because he actually fraudulently filled
in his citizenship application by ticking that he had never
been in prison.

Speaker 6 (01:29:51):
Many of you have been asking about the citizenship granted
to Rick Bloom or Frederick de Hevery in nineteen seventy six.
In a previous epis pisode, we detailed how he lied
to immigration officials about his criminal record, and we had
a legal expert explained that there is no statute of
limitations to prevent authorities from revoking his citizenship. The details

(01:30:15):
of this deception are contained in the National Archives material
referencing Ritbloom and included in the police brief of evidence
to the coroner. It took me days to sift through
the three and a half thousand pages on the aging
laptop provided by the Coroner's office as they kept watch
over me. It was startling to read that in April

(01:30:35):
nineteen eighty, the Immigration Department provided a full brief on
Frederick A. Ker Willie's criminal history and path to citizenship
for the Federal Minister of Immigration, asking whether his citizenship
should be withdrawn. Then the Federal Police wrote to the
Immigration Department in August nineteen eighty asking why a man

(01:30:56):
with his criminal history had been granted citizenship in the
first place, and even more surprising to read that in
nineteen eighty one, the Department provided written advice that Frederick
quote appears obtained citizenship by deceit. Prosecution proposed imagine if
Ric's citizenship had been revoked, marying Barter would likely be

(01:31:18):
alive or at least with her family to day. To
add to the frustration, neighbors Ingrid Nwbath and Martin Mitzus
told us last year they contacted emigration officials in two
thousand and eleven after becoming deeply suspicious of Rick and Diane.
They were told immigration officials would investigate, but we now

(01:31:39):
know nothing was done because all the information they needed
was in their own files. We sent questions to the
Home Affairs Department asking if they were investigating Rick Bloom's
citizenship and if they would deport him if it is revoked,
and how many cases there have been where the Department
has pursued a prosecution against a person for lying to

(01:32:01):
obtain citizenship. Here is what they told US.

Speaker 17 (01:32:05):
The Department does not comment on individual cases or allegations.
The Department takes all reports of fraud and criminality very seriously.
All reports we receive are considered in light of legislative
provisions in place at the time and acted on where appropriate.

Speaker 6 (01:32:23):
We hope that means they are considering the status of
rich citizenship. We can tell you that since nineteen forty
eight there have been sixty nine revocations of Australian citizenship,
forty eight for serious offenses and twenty one for migration
citizenship fraud. A person found to have obtained their citizenship
by fraudulent means, even if it was fifty years ago,

(01:32:46):
can have their status revoked and given an ex citizen visa,
which means they can stay here, but if they leave
the country they cannot return. Now back to the support.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
Group, we come back to government problems where you know,
I just don't know why that action has.

Speaker 5 (01:33:05):
Not been taken.

Speaker 14 (01:33:07):
Is it because he's eighty three and they don't want
to They think that I've got I have a lot
that I'd like to say about.

Speaker 4 (01:33:17):
Perhaps so the fact that we're still before the coroner,
and I'm very grateful to her for you know, doing
a thorough job. Is still pursuing, you know, answers, and
I just hope that everyone working for my mum essentially
to find her. He's very conscious of the fact that
this is not over yet and there's new information that

(01:33:39):
keeps coming through, so we need to keep pushing for answers.

Speaker 14 (01:33:43):
And we get a lot of people commenting that he
should be.

Speaker 4 (01:33:47):
Extradined back to Belgium, and you know, that's that's a
very difficult thing to do. It's very there's a lot
of red tape and you know, politics behind that sort
of thing.

Speaker 14 (01:33:56):
And essentially he's here, you know, my mum is here.
My mum's never left the country again.

Speaker 4 (01:34:02):
So I need him to be here and helped tell
us what more he knows about, you know, him coming
back into the country and being around the same time
as my mum. And there are some firm timelines that
we've been able to establish, and we have found people
that weren't found by others, which we're hoping will actually

(01:34:26):
help the coroner.

Speaker 6 (01:34:27):
He catch up with Janet and Sally was winding up now,
but not before Janet reflected on why she ever trusted
Rick Bloom. Her sentiments eerily similar to those of Monique Cornelius.

Speaker 5 (01:34:40):
It makes me wonder world what I saw in him
in my first but I think as he came across
so caring and loving and master manipulator. Yes, oh he is.

Speaker 18 (01:34:53):
Definitely likely and a way of saying things that make
you think, oh okay, it's not right there.

Speaker 5 (01:35:03):
So you had a way of getting through that. You're
the one that made the decision, you know, I thought
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
Newsla Chat.

Speaker 4 (01:35:15):
Mis Jewelry.

Speaker 6 (01:35:23):
If you knew Marion or have any information about her
or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you. Our
website is sevennews dot com dot au, slash news slash
The Lady Vanishes, and you can also message us here.
You can also send us an anonymous tip at The

(01:35:43):
Lady Vanishes dot org. If you like what you're hearing,
don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series.
It helps new listeners find us. Presenter and executive producer
Alison Sandy, investigative journalist Seymour, producer and writer Sally Eels.

(01:36:05):
Sound design Mark Wright, graphics Jason Blandford, Transcripts and translation
Estelle Sanchez. The theme and much of the music by
Nicholas Gasparini at the Dark Piano dot com. Thanks again
to the Alliance Francais. This is a seven News production.

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