July 29, 2025 • 41 mins
This is part 1 of a 2 part episode
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys are thrilled to sit down with Andrew Zimmern to talk about food television, globe-trotting and some surprisingly delicious foods. Hear the tale about the BEST family feud Andrew, or anyone, has ever experienced!
The Inside Track
The Guys have had Andrew on their podcast several times years ago. They all agree that humans are designed to care for each other and break all kinds of bread together.
“With food, you can be very indiscriminate. One night I'm going out for sushi, and the next night I'm cooking at home, and then I'm gonna go over to this person's house and they're gonna make me something.
There is a level of sharing with that intimacy that crosses more boundaries than if Gael [Greene] was here, I would say, than sex does. So there's an argument that it is the most universal of intimate acts,” Andrew Zimmern on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025
Bio
Andrew Zimmern is an Emmy-winning and four-time James Beard Award-winning TV personality, chef, writer and passionate global citizen. As the creator, executive producer and host of the Bizarre Foods franchise, Andrew Zimmern’s Driven by Food, MSNBC’s What’s Eating America, the Emmy-nominated Family Dinner, Outdoor Channel’s Wild Game Kitchen and Field to Fire, and the Emmy-winning The Zimmern List, he has devoted his life to exploring and promoting cultural acceptance, tolerance and understanding through food.
Info
Andrew’s site
Andrew’s 2008 appearance on The Restaurant Guys Podcast
https://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/episode-98-andrew-zimmern
Andrew’s new book (out in October 2025)
The Blue Food Cookbook: Delicious Seafood Recipes for a Sustainable Future (A Comprehensive Guide, from Buying and Preparing to Cooking Delicious Nutritious Blue Food Recipes)
By Andrew Zimmern and Barton Seaver
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Sharpe (00:14):
Good evening and welcome to the New Brunswick
Performing Arts Center.
A portion of the proceeds fromyour ticket purchase today will
benefit the Promise CulinarySchool at Elijah's Promise right
here in New Brunswick.
For those of you that don't knowthe Promise, culinary School is
a state certified vocationalschool and job training program
servicing individuals fromvarious social, economic and
(00:38):
professional backgrounds with apassion for the culinary arts.
You can find out more aboutthem@elijahpromise.org.
The New Brunswick PerformingArts Center doesn't just host
great events like this lectureseries.
Make sure to check out our fulllineup@nbpac.org.
Now.
Without further ado, pleasewelcome everyone's favorite
(00:58):
podcast hosts Mock Pascal andFrancis Shot.
Mark (01:18):
Hello everybody and welcome.
You are here with the restaurantguys.
I'm Mark Pascal.
This is Francis Shot.
Together, we own stage left inCatherine Lombardi restaurants
right over there.
We're here to bring you theinside track on food, wine, and
Francis (01:30):
the finer things in life.
Hello everybody.
It's so nice to have you here.
Uh, this is our fourth in a liveseries here and, um, it's so, so
great that you all showed up.
That's really nice.
We're, we're used to sitting ina room with Jennifer Mark's wife
and our producer and, andrecording a podcast that is
heard by thousands, but we'realways alone in the room, so
it's nice to hear if youactually get our jokes or not.
(01:51):
That's really sweet.
Our next live show, we're gonnado a show in July in New
Orleans.
What's the date again, Mike?
July 22nd.
July 22nd.
So if you're gonna be in the bigEasy around then we'd love to
see you there live and in theworks.
We have a show in Belfast, inIreland coming up.
So, uh.
So, yeah, time for a trip.
Ooh, we got oohs and s we realfast.
Speaker 11 (02:10):
I We'll set you up
Francis (02:10):
with a restaurant recommendation.
It's super fun.
You're driving on the wrong sideof the road.
It's super, yeah, but this issuper fun and, it's a whole new
thing for us.
Um, but it's really an extensionof something we started a long
time ago.
If you're a lot of people whocame to see Andrew, who are not
from New Brunswick, and somefolks who have flown in from as
far away as Chicago and a bunchof other places to see us.
So if it's your first time inNew Brunswick, welcome.
This is the best little city inthe Northeast, in New Brunswick,
(02:32):
New Jersey, and this is the NewBrunswick Performing Arts
Center.
There's lots of cool stuff here,you know, world.
And we old and we started, westarted the restaurant.
We're not old.
We started the Restaurant guyspodcast, the, the week that
podcasts began to exist.
And we did it for eight yearsback then.
And what's amazing is in the 20years we've been doing it, we've
(02:53):
had some really great people on,we've had them on multiple
times.
We took a 10 year break and nowwe're back.
What's really nice is to revisitsome of the folks that have
visited us over, the history ofthe show.
so I think I should introducetoday's guest.
Uh, he doesn't really need anintroduction, but because the
show will get better when hecomes on stage way, it's
definitely gonna happen waybetter.
Um, so he's a four times JamesBeard Award winner, A man's
(03:17):
journey to the edges of theearth and the heart of our food
culture through Bizarre Foods.
He introduced us to the richnessand diversity of global cuisine,
often one crunchy insect at atime.
Um, Andrew is more than just atelevision personality.
He's an award-winning chef, awriter, a teacher.
He helps us see communityculture and the environment
through the powerful lens offood.
(03:37):
We're big fans.
He was an early restaurant guy'sguest first appearing on our
show 18 years ago in June of2007.
This is his fourth appearancewith the restaurant guys, and
the first one that we actuallyhave him live in New Brunswick.
The show.
Mark (04:10):
Andrew's really good at the bro hug.
You guys saw that?
Andrew (04:12):
Yeah.
I am really good at that.
By the way, when we did, uh,sound check earlier, there were
not four big bottles of waterhere.
So clearly things are about toget really hot.
Francis (04:24):
It's,
Andrew (04:25):
it's important to stay hydrated.
Mark (04:26):
So Andrew's Andrew, we do Andrew's introduction and we're
writing his introduction.
We're like, what comes next?
Like, first of his name, motherof Dragons, breaker of chains.
I mean, how many, how manytitles do you have
Andrew (04:38):
Mr.
Game of
Mark (04:39):
Thrones?
Andrew (04:39):
I got a lot.
Uh, Wednesday night.
Uh, a documentary that, Iproduced my production company,
made it, which means I have myname on it, but I essentially
have nothing to do with it atall.
Um, well, I I actually shouldn'tsay that.
That's a little tooself-deprecating.
It was, it's, uh, about the bluefoods movement and it's about
(05:00):
how we protect, uh, our oceansand produce outta them at the
same time.
Mm-hmm.
2 billion people, it's theirmain source of protein.
A billion people work on thewater, so you can't just turn
the.
Ocean off.
Right?
Right.
I mean, a, a big FU to the guysthat made that, documentary Cspi
that was on Netflix, which gotit all wrong and was not
factually based.
(05:20):
And we had a hundred scientistsand agencies all over the world
vetting this thing for PBS.
It was a multi, part series.
I know people are recordingthis.
If you know anyone who made cspitell them personally from me to
go screw themselves, um, reallyharmful, harmful, information
they put out there, or lackthereof.
Uh, but I was nominated for anEmmy again and I lost, and, uh,
(05:47):
the next day, Thursday I washaving to talk to somebody who
didn't know how to tell somebodythat they didn't get the per,
you know, it was something verysmall, you know, like I didn't
get the milk that I wanted, thesupermarket, and I was like.
If you, you, you know, you don'tget it.
If you knew real pain of sittingthere and not hearing your name
(06:10):
called and smiling and clappingfor the next person.
So many times get well.
I was not the one who clappedbecause I'm the one who's honest
enough to admit being nominatedis great, but there are no
being, getting to a certainpoint in your career means you
are so driven.
You have for, there's childrenthat I have, I have.
(06:32):
Maid whose names I don't know.
I have to show ID to them when Icome home from a trip.
I'm your father.
Mark (06:39):
I'm your dad.
I, I really thought you weregonna say, there are children
who have been in my way and Ijust shouted them out of the
way.
That's Well, that too, that'swhat I was thinking.
Andrew (06:46):
So you have the most driven, competitive people in
the world, in an industry thatis literally dying, where every
week you see another 20% ofpeople being lost and everyone's
like, you know, it's just niceto be nominated.
I don't need to win.
It's like, what?
I don't need to win.
Francis (07:00):
Like, alright.
Alright.
I have to, I have crocodiletears a little bit here because
you've won everything and Ijust, we know that you, you
hosted the James Beard Awardsthis year and Mark and I were
conjecturing that I'm four for15 at the beards.
I'm one for
Andrew (07:17):
six.
At the Emmy's.
You won four beard awards.
That's amazing.
That's, I'm lucky.
I'm, I'm, I'm the luckiest guyin the whole, I literally should
be dead.
I mean, literally should bedead.
Um.
I'm a longtime, sober guy andbeen, you know, I mean, I
literally, this, the last 33 anda half years have been a gift
(07:37):
from God.
And that's, you know, why I tryto do things for other people.
But I'm very, very, uh, blessedthat career wise, I have had
achievements that other people,and by the way, every time
you're nominated for something,yeah.
It, I don't believe it's all Icare about is being nominated.
I want to win.
(07:58):
However, the other people allare nominated for a very good
reason.
So I freely acknowledge thatpart of it.
Francis (08:04):
Yeah.
Andrew (08:04):
Well, where are you going with this question?
Francis (08:06):
I, I was that today?
I don't know where I'm goingwith it.
No, I, I was saying that I, markand I were conjecturing that
they made you the host'causethey ran out of Beard Awards to
give you,'cause you'd won'emalready.
Yeah.
That was,
Andrew (08:17):
uh, the, uh, you know what's really kind of funny?
Um, I.
I think that they try to mix itup like a Target Christmas
commercial.
And they needed, like, who do weget in the, in the 65-year-old
white guy category?
It's like Alton Brown hasretired.
(08:38):
The other three or four,Jonathan Waxman will say no.
Like, who could we ask?
And someone goes, ask Zimmer.
And he says yes to everything.
Francis (08:47):
Well, can can we go, can we start with when you came
on our show years ago, low,those many, 2007 was the first
trip.
Long time ago.
Yes.
But none of this had sort ofstarted yet.
You were just getting on tv.
Uh, it had sort, yes.
Yeah,
Andrew (09:01):
it had, it had, it had started in a weird, I made a
very, very conscious decision,uh, in 1999, uh, to get out of
day-to-day restaurantoperations.
And,
Mark (09:15):
uh, I, I made that decision in 1999 as well.
But, and you're still in it, butyou guys see me on the floor
every night.
I, so by the way, you can makethat decision.
It doesn't mean it by the way,you can manifest it.
Same,
Andrew (09:24):
same here, because I, I, I also told you very that two
things can be true at the sametime I got out of them.
But this is my 50th year ofbeing in restaurants,
continuously taking paycheckfrom a restaurant two weeks to
50th anniversary.
So it's a very, very strange yinyang thing.
But I got out of dailyrestaurant ops and I took a job
as an intern, you know, the 305-year-old intern or whatever,
(09:47):
at, um, a radio station or TVstation in a glossy monthly
magazine mm-hmm.
In Minnesota to try to teachmyself, give myself the
syllabus, you know, my own sortof education and how to do media
because I had some naturalability.
But there is a lot of technicalstuff you gotta learn how to do
(10:08):
if you wanna sort of rise to thetop.
And I'm a very competitive, sortof driven person by the time.
I did the show with you, uh,bizarre Foods premiered in 2007,
but I had been, uh, you know, aguest on people's show.
Then I, then I was a regularYeah.
On some, uh, group shows, what,whatever they call those.
(10:32):
There's a word for that.
you know, so and so is gonna dothis, so, and Andrew Zimmer's
gonna have a recipe, you know,it's a, with these like, so, uh,
I did that and one of them wasfor an HGTV show on which, uh, I
was, uh, the house chef.
So I would give tips, uh,cooking tips on a show called
Typical Mary Ellen, TIP dashICAL.
(10:55):
That's not that witty.
No, it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It was a, it's a good try.
Mary Ellen.
Terrible show.
Terrible show Helmed by, by thedumbest human beings of all
time.
I, I had, and I mean that withlove.
I had, I love stupid people too.
I was new to television, this ishow moronic they were.
I was new to television and Iremember the producers and the
(11:17):
hosts and everything celebratingone day.
And I said, oh, what happened?
It's like they ordered another,like 63 shows or something, so
we're gonna be taping for thenext like four or five months.
And they're like, you know,isn't that great?
And I just thought to myself, doyou not see, they're just taking
care of every option at acertain cost in the contract.
(11:38):
Mm-hmm.
The show's doing a big number.
They're trying to get you to do200 shows in that contract term
at this price, because Godforbid you get outside that
contract term and your agents ormanagers or you yourself pay the
$10 to find out what the ratingsare.
And you're like, oh, we'rerating really well, no, and I,
(11:59):
and at one point I said tosomeone backstage, she said, why
are you laughing?
I was like laughing to myself.
I said.
They're doing well.
They're just gonna like cut thecord.
They'll, they'll run reruns
Francis (12:09):
right?
All
Andrew (12:09):
the time.
If you have 250 episodes ofsomething, you can run it once a
week and you're not gonna repeata show for five years.
Yep.
You know, and sure enough, thenext year they were gone.
But I was the, I was the foodguy and I just started pitching
my own sort of TV stuff in 2005.
Uh, did a couple pilots in endof 2005.
(12:32):
They aired both of them in 2006.
One was about sports, one wasabout food.
Well, they're both about food.
Just one was sports and onewith, uh, you know, called the
Bizarre Foods of Asia.
And the sports one was calledWorld's Best Ballpark Foods,
where I went around stadiumsaround the world eating and I
was praying, please God, let medo the ballpark show really well
(12:53):
because I love sports.
Did that have good ratings?
The ballpark show it.
It was Travel Channel in, Ithink the highest rate show on
Travel Channel at the time wassomething called World's Best
Bathroom.
Oh, seriously.
I mean, so you guys rememberthat, that Andrew, that was the
actual show.
I, I
Francis (13:10):
just wanna say
Andrew (13:11):
you've come a long way, baby.
Thank you.
So, so we, the Bizarre FoodsEdge out the other one by like a
10th of a ratings point.
So they bought Bizarre Foods.
Well, they bought eightepisodes.
You go out and make it eightepisodes and then they air them
and you hope that something goodhappens and you get more.
Francis (13:26):
One question about starting Bizarre Foods.
Yeah.
And we had you on shortly afterBizarre Foods started.
Correct.
'cause I remember when we, noone else
Andrew (13:34):
would happen several more times after
Francis (13:35):
that.
No, you were the darling, but wegot you early.
We could you early.
No one else would happen.
So, but here's the thing.
When we're watching the show,we're like, he's eating what?
And what the hell were youthinking?
Where did that come from?
Andrew (13:48):
It was very, it was, it was actually very strategic.
If, if you go back, uh, year,season one, eight episodes and
like three episodes into seasontwo, I ain't.
More animal feces, dead things,uh, accidental animal.
If you eat rotten potatoes inthe mountains of chili, the
(14:10):
farmers just scoop them up withthe rabbit shit that's in there
and they throw it all into thesoup pot.
And I'm just sitting theregoing, oh
Francis (14:17):
my gosh.
You know, like, but a certain,as certain earthy quality to it.
I, yeah, I think that's how I
Andrew (14:22):
described it.
Um, tannic.
Yeah, tannic and grassy.
Tannic.
Yeah.
And, and you know, so you, you,you eat all these, these and a
lot of bugs and a lot of rottenthings.
Yeah.
And my idea was,'cause I soldthe network, and I've said this
quite a bit, I may have evensaid it back then.
(14:42):
I, I sold them a Trojan horse,which was, they wanted me to be
fat white guy goes around worldeats bugs, and that that was
gonna be grabby and stick.
There
Mark (14:52):
are, there are fatter white guys.
I wanted, I'm just letting, I'mjust letting you know.
Let's,
Andrew (14:56):
I, I wanted to do.
Um, a show about teaching theworld patience, tolerance, and
understanding on a planet that Ifelt was getting increasingly
divisive and was notunderstanding that all cultures
are equal.
Mark (15:15):
By the way, that was 2007.
That was not last week.
That was
Andrew (15:18):
and valid.
So, um, and they, and, and theysaid, your show is a PBS thing.
It'll last three episodes andyour, your loved ones will
applaud and then you're done.
Give us more entertainment.
So I came up with this hook andI had studied TV very, very
seriously, and I, I knew thatthe network and the production
(15:41):
company had all the leverage.
When you start, you know,they're like, Zimmern, stand
over there.
And you don't, you just say yes.
The minute the show does well,I.
It's, it becomes, what we say inthe industry is talent driven
uhhuh.
It becomes a talent driven, notthe boss.
We're still waiting
Mark (15:58):
to get to that point.
And then
Andrew (16:00):
then network executives say, what, what 25 countries do
you want to go to next year?
Right.
You know, what do you want todo?
Right.
I wasn't asked, uh, uh,anything, you know, the first go
round, I mean, you're right.
You did what
Francis (16:14):
they said.
Andrew (16:14):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I mean, you were really, it isyour, and by the way, I
would've, I would've done itwearing a, a, a chain vest if
they wanted me to because it'syour first big break, your own
show.
It's Bizarre Foods
Speaker 11 (16:30):
with Andrew Zimmer,
Andrew (16:31):
and later on it was Bizarre Foods with Andrew
Zimmer, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you, you, you hope that ittransitions and then you get to
bring something to it.
So the idea was the hook is,let's do it, but now let's
explore the culture more so byseason three or four, I think
the last.
250 shows I probably ate fivebugs.
(16:53):
The first 12 shows I ate 200bugs.
Francis (16:57):
You know, species, species of bugs.
Right?
Yeah.
Well, so I, I remember thinkingat the end of the first show,
and I'm like, and when we, thenwe met you and we thought it was
terrific, and we, I we didn'tquite figure out that what
you're doing is you're reallymaking a show about cultures
through the lens of food andthrough unfamiliar foods.
Mm-hmm.
Which is very freakinginteresting.
Yeah.
My initial thought was, he'sgonna run outta gross things.
(17:18):
Right.
What are you gonna do next year?
What's he gonna eat next time?
When I
Andrew (17:21):
pitched the network, this is a true story.
I've not shared this a lot.
The, uh, I went in and I pitchedthem on my dream show.
Uh, arguably the worst title inthe history of traveling food
shows.
Are you ready for it?
Yes.
The wandering spoon
Francis (17:39):
That sounds like someone who wanders around and
wants to hug you in
Andrew (17:42):
bed.
That's bad.
That's bad.
Francis (17:44):
Yeah.
Andrew (17:45):
And, uh, it, it was just this.
You know, I mean this rosyeducational thing, but they
liked me as talent.
And the other shows hadperformed, the pilots had
performed, uh, well, or sorry, Ihadn't done the pilots yet.
The, the clips that I had sentthem that I had made on my own
dime head test, like the peoplenever were like, I like this
(18:06):
guy.
He's raw.
He needs to learn how to do tv,but we like him and we think
audiences will like him.
Uh, is that true?
Which it, thank you.
Mark (18:20):
That's not too good.
No, you, you couldn't have saidit, but I, I, I could say that.
Yeah.
Uh, by the way, I will say theykind of went woo.
It was weak.
It was weak.
Yeah.
Andrew (18:29):
Um, so, you know, we, we we're trying to, they said to me
literally in the room when Ipitched the wandering spoon.
That's great.
That's not our show.
We're in.
People watch TV because it'sentertainment.
That's education.
And Pat Young, the head of thetravel channel said, you've just
told me something that's 80%education, 20% entertainment.
(18:51):
Gimme something that's 75%entertainment and I will let you
put the 25% of education in.
Love it, love it.
He, he says, but you'll be on TVfor the rest of your life and
you're, you will get a chance topreach all the message that you
want.
It's just that we got a leadwith entertainment.
He said, come back tomorrowmorning.
This is four o'clock.
I'm in the discovery building inBethesda, Maryland, and, uh, I'm
(19:14):
nervous as hell.
I pitched this thing and hesays, but I'll give you 15
minutes tomorrow to fix this.
And I went home that night, andI like college except I was
sober.
Uh, but, you know, uh, I did theall-nighter and just figured out
there was no chat.
GPTI actually like legal padsand, you know, I'm just paper.
(19:35):
And, and I finally figured outthe, I walked back in the next
day and I said, we're not goingto do a.
Chicken breasts in this show,we're gonna tell stories from
the edges of culture aboutfoods.
No one eats.
And he turned to me and he said,so that's like 12 things.
And I literally, they had thishuge map.
(19:57):
I mean the, the boardroom at thediscovery building was like the
size of this theater.
And he hits a button and a mapof the world comes down, one of
those flat ones.
And I get a laser pointer.
Someone rolls down theconference table to me and he
says, tell me how many shows youcan do.
and luckily, and, and this is Ithink true of, of not just
(20:18):
myself, but people who arereally good, you know, uh, Tony,
Alton, A lot of people who dothe same kind of things that I
do.
we live our brands.
We are who we are before we didthat TV show, right?
We are.
This is me.
I only got one gear.
Right.
You know, Tony was, Tony out isout.
He really is that he's not likestudy, he's not a character.
(20:40):
Mm-hmm.
He's playing.
which is what makes going out todinner with him so much fun.
Uh, but I just sat there and Iwent well, and I just went
around and by the time I'm donewith, you know, snails screwing
in France and snail caviar andsomeone goes, is that a thing?
And like we put it in the Parisepisode, season one.
(21:01):
I'm saying, of course it's athing.
And, uh, the greatest promo Iever did, walking into a room, 3
million pairs of helix snails,all making love at the same
time.
And, and I open the doorcameraman on the inside, he pans
over and pans back.
(21:21):
And I'm like.
Shh.
Speaker 11 (21:22):
They're making love.
Francis (21:26):
Best promo
Andrew (21:27):
I ever did.
What music
Francis (21:28):
was playing at the time?
Was there like a romantic Johnkick a bow bounce?
I mean, that's what I thought.
What a assumed naive.
Andrew (21:33):
What A naive question's.
What I assumed.
Mark (21:35):
That's what I assumed.
So seriously, when Francis and Istarted at the radio station,
they, we were talking aboutdoing a five day a week show.
An hour a day.
And they're like, you know, isthere enough material?
And Francis and I looked at eachother and we're like, I'm, you
know, I'm not sure.
Let's get out a yellow pad,which is exactly what we did.
And we said, let's write down afew show ideas.
And in like an hour we had ahundred shows.
(21:56):
Oh yeah, yeah.
And we were like, okay, we can,we can definitely do this.
There's, there's
Andrew (22:00):
not, it occurred to me at one point that there's not a
culture in the world really,except ours and one or two
others that, uh, but mostlyours, where they don't eat every
part of every animal.
Mm-hmm.
Or someone does.
And the more you go back inhistory, and then I started to
say, what if I started to livewith some of the.
(22:21):
You know, 108 protected tribesaround the world.
Um, and I, what if I, what if Ivisited, you know, indigenous
peoples, from lap lands inFinland to, uh, the men Wata
Sioux in Minnesota where I live.
And then I was like, all of asudden this whole like,
landscape opened up and I wasjust like, oh my gosh.
(22:43):
this could go on forever.
Francis (22:46):
Yeah.
Well, and I think, you know,you, you approach it a different
culture that has different foodthan you do, right?
So if you think, if you comefrom a, a culture where it's
vegetarian or even a mediumculture that doesn't have cheese
as a part of its culture, andthen you try to explain to them,
well, so you take this animal,no, it's not human.
And then you take its milk.
Yeah, that's right.
It's milk that it means there'sa baby and then you let it go
bad.
(23:06):
And then you stick it for a longtime and then you eat it.
That's really, but not until themold goes
Mark (23:10):
out, gets on.
Yeah.
Until the mold goes out.
You don't eat it until the moldgoes,
Francis (23:13):
and so the
Andrew (23:13):
mold is blue.
And that's really revolting.
Did you see my, uh, no.
My episode in Uganda with theChaga?
No, no.
So we're sitting there and weleft this in the show.
My cameraman started rollingthis Chaga Tribesman comes into
my tent because I'm eatingTriscuits and uh, uh, cracker
(23:34):
Barrel, extra sharp.
Francis (23:37):
And, um, hold on.
Who's, whose impression ofAndrew has just dropped a couple
of points.
Yeah.
The, the magic's gone.
The bloom is off the road.
Well, you have to have
Andrew (23:45):
stuff that
Francis (23:46):
will
Andrew (23:46):
stay Yeah, of course.
In your bag.
I was only kidding.
I said, no, no, no.
It is a great question.
so he comes in and I offered himthe bag of crackers and, you
know, the box of crackers, andhe digs and he grabs a couple
Triscuits.
And I had my knife and I cutoff, you know, and I stab the
square triangles or squarerectangles and I, you know,
square pieces, whatever.
(24:08):
And I, I hold them up and helike, literally like, like I
was.
Putting a torch of open flame infront of him.
And he looked at me and he said,what is it with you Americans?
You take perfectly good milk andlet it rot.
Francis (24:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that, but I mean, I thinkthat's one of the things that I,
I really came to realize lookingat your show.
I was like, well that's'causeit's unfamiliar to us.
Right.
Credit
Mark (24:33):
reference means everything and, uh, correct.
Francis (24:34):
You know,
Andrew (24:35):
in Argentina they don't eat peanut butter.
They think it's horrificallygross.
They laugh, laugh at us foreating peanut butter.
So we ran a little thing to tryto do for a promo that worked
beautifully where someone, wehad the, the production
department, DHL back from, fromhome, of Jar of Skippy and we
(24:58):
had me on the street inArgentina was, it was actually a
big square where everyone comesat night to eat sausage
sandwiches and you know, makeout with their loved one.
And, uh, watch the stars and,uh, walk around And there was
some kid came by and I kneltdown and I was like, would you
like some peanut butter?
And some big dude comes over,kicks me over, A woman is
(25:22):
screaming at me in a language Idon't speak.
And they're like, andessentially the, our fixer said,
um, you can't just go up to kidsand offer something.
It would be like going into apark in America with a bottle
of, of booze, right.
To a little kid.
(25:42):
Like they don't eat peanutbutter.
And I'm sitting there trying toget a kid, you know,'cause I
think it's cute and funny.
So you learn.
Okay, I thought you were gonna
Mark (25:48):
go white van candy.
No.
You gotta think
Francis (25:51):
I was, you gotta think these things through though.
I was in your head for thatwhole thing until you talked
about the guy kicking you.
And I thought, well, if thatwere my kid and I didn't know,
you'd probably kidding.
I hundred percent like crazyguy.
As a parent, I'm like, I get youdude.
So.
Talk to us about, you said it's,you know, Kevin SRA said this
about wine.
Kevin's really is a famous wineeducator and he was probably one
(26:12):
of the most successful basicwine educators in the world.
And he's a mentor of mine, hesaid, Francis, if you wanna
teach wine classes, do you wannateach people to become a master
of wine?
Or do you wanna teach consumershow to really love and enjoy
wine?
And that's wine entertainment,like your food entertainment.
That's right.
But you put the, but the Trojanhorse is the message in it.
So what was the Trojan horsethat, that came out through?
Let's talk about the, thebizarre foods, What was the
(26:34):
universal truth you werebringing?
Being out from it?
Andrew (26:38):
That everybody wants the same things for their families
and the people that we love.
Mm-hmm.
That as human beings, we havethe same desires.
Speaker 11 (26:49):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (26:50):
And that some of us have gotten a little off path, and
it's why I asked 14 differentholy people.
Uh, in the history of the showand another eight or nine away
from cameras.
'cause I've been fortunateenough to have lunch, in Germany
with the Dalai Lama.
And, uh, I met a Pope and, uh,you know, other people like that
(27:15):
who I think have a little bit onthe ball, uh, spiritually.
Mm-hmm.
And I've asked all of them whyare we here?
what do you tell people is ourpoint of being on planet Earth?
And every single one of themsaid the same thing.
Well, they all laughed at melike I was a moron.
Which is true because if youhave certainty, the, the pope
said to me, I asked him, I usedthe word faith.
(27:37):
He said, I don't have faith, Ihave certainty.
And I was just like, whoa,heavy.
I mean, I was just like, oh,that's why you're a pope.
Francis (27:43):
Like can you, that's why you're the Pope.
Um, I just, I just want pointout that he is infallible, so
he's better than the rest of us.
That infallible.
If you're God on earth, ifyou're Catholic's knows That's
right.
He has certainty.
I mean, he has certainty,
Andrew (27:55):
But everyone said the same thing.
we're put on this earth to loveone another.
Mm-hmm.
Period.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So along with that comessupporting your community and
being a good human being anddoing right by others.
And all of the 10 Commandmentsstuff and, and things I needed
to learn.
Everything I needed to know, Ilearned in kindergarten.
(28:15):
All that stuff is what we're,what we're here for.
So when I am in, a tribal partof the world, or I am, with gang
members in pps, hostile.
In Johannesburg, a place thearmy doesn't even go into in
that country.
that they basically just put awall around the neighborhood and
(28:36):
said, we're not even gonna go inthere.
We're just gonna let everyoneelse sort of, they let them
govern themselves, right?
I mean, the favela that I wentinto in, in, in Rio had 400,000
people all under the watchfuleye of a benevolent, uh, narco
terrorist who made his moneyselling drugs internationally
and weapons internationally.
(28:57):
but he supplied that small city,400,000 people, okay?
400,000 people live there withelectricity and water and all
the rest of, so these are poorpeople who come from all over
Brazil.
They're very loyal to this man.
He's running a small city,arguably better than a lot of
mayors do.
I hate to say it right?
(29:17):
I mean, so once you get inthere, our mayor, you start,
mayor doesn't break here.
You start showing people.
That what you think of Oh, as anarco terrace has to be a
terrible human being.
Well, in his day job, yeah.
he's very dangerous.
And number three on interpols,uh, terrorists.
But at night he's just a card,when you tell stories at the
(29:40):
extremes Yeah.
You let people make their owndecisions and come back to the
middle So you have to introducea cast of characters over 300
episodes.
That, in its totality, shows youthat human beings are human
beings, but we all kind of wantthe same things for our families
and our loved ones.
Mark (29:59):
Well, and one of those things that we want.
and I think that's been the,center of your career, right?
Is we wanna sit around a tabletogether.
Yes.
We want to share a mealtogether.
That's such an important part ofwho we are and how we express
that care for our family andeach other.
And that's why do we
Andrew (30:16):
not do it more often then?
We've, we've lost the familymeal.
Mark (30:21):
Well, the culturally we have, there's, there's not
enough of it.
listen, almost everybody hereshares meals in my restaurant.
Yep.
It's, it's what makes me
Andrew (30:31):
happy.
Well, we're just, I just meanculturally we're time poor.
I mean, I agree with you 100%.
We need it.
We need more of it.
It's why when Magnolia Networkcame to me and said, we want an
Andrew Zimmer show, what do youwanna do?
And I right away said it'scalled family dinner.
every episode of Bizarre Foods,every single one, 300 some odd,
every episode of Driven By Food,every episode of Zimmer List, I
(30:53):
mean, probably nine series had afamily meal in it.
trust me, this is the thing thateveryone can relate to, but I'm
gonna show we we need this.
And it wound up coming outduring COVI and was on for three
seasons.
I have really bad luck.
I'm pretty good at identifyingwhat I think people are going to
(31:14):
wanna watch.
And then at some point, thetelevision network that I'm on
decides like a radio stationthat goes from classical to
country Western.
Yeah.
You know, a travel channelcalled me up one day and said.
Uh, we want you to hear itfirst.
'cause at that time, Tony hadleft and was on CNN, right?
I have the number one showtravel Channel called me and
(31:37):
said, well, I was in the fielddoing something.
And, they said, we're, we'rechanging to a ghost in
paranormal show starting, uh,network starting tomorrow.
And I said, well, how does thatwork?
It's like, you're done.
We're right.
You're fired, you know?
And I said, lemme call you backin a couple minutes.
And I called my agent, he said,ghost a week.
(31:57):
And, and I said, what, what do Isay to this Vice President of
programming?
And he said, well.
They gotta pay you for that.
You got two more years in yourcontract, so you just say thank
you and come home.
So I called them back and I saidthank you.
And I, and I went home.
That's great.
But Travel Channel became, well,it's not great'cause I wanna
keep making bizarre films even.
Hold on.
You
Francis (32:17):
got paid even though they ghosted you.
Oh
Andrew (32:22):
well they, they ghosted me.
They also had a, they they alsohad a vowel movement.
They lost their vowels.
It became turvy.
Sorry I won that round, Andrew.
You did?
I won that round.
Won that round One zero.
Boom.
Alright.
Uh, so, and then at, at Magnoliathey said, okay, we decided
we're not gonna do food showsanymore.
that's the business that I choseto be, but that's why I did
(32:44):
family dinner because I wantpeople.
To see the power of gatheringaround a table.
And I've become a little morepatient with everyone's story
because we all are time poor andwe're all trying to get kids to
practice, and we all have jobsthat are late we're not living
on a farm 150 years ago.
Right.
Well, but I would like people toemphasize a time, to share a
(33:10):
meal and actually communicatewith one another because
societally, culturally,interpersonally, we are
quantifiably better off when wedo that on a regular basis.
Francis (33:25):
A hundred percent.
You know, and Mark and I,probably the smarter business
move for us would've been toopen a restaurant, run it for
five years, sell thatrestaurant, or take on partners
and open a bunch of restaurantsand sell them all.
We'd be retired by now.
Yes.
Um, but we really like havingtwo restaurants in this town
where we had been for yearsbefore.
And, we have regular customersthat come in all the time.
(33:45):
Right.
And we don't have TVs.
Right.
And people turn off and share ameal.
I remember we interviewed GailGreen years ago, and she said
she was very smart.
You remember Gail Green?
She was the first femalerestaurant critic in New York
for New York Magazine.
It was tremendous.
founded City Meals On Meals onWheel, founded City, meals on
Wheels, had sex with Elvis.
She did.
(34:06):
It's in a book.
She, I hate to tell you she had
Andrew (34:07):
sex with everybody.
Everybody, yeah, I know.
I know.
But most people aren't asnotable as Elvis.
But I, I did not have sex withher.
However, I, one of my businesspartners had a lot of sex with
her.
Excellent.
And, and told me that it was,uh, despite their age gap, uh,
or maybe because of it, I said.
Well, how was it, you know,because she famously had an
(34:28):
enormous appetite.
Yes.
Uh, and she told us this on theshow.
Oh, yeah.
No,
Francis (34:32):
she's very open.
One of our top downloaded shows,very open about it.
Andrew (34:35):
And uh, and he literally said to me, blew my mind.
And I was like, I was like, GailGreen.
And I would see her, they're notsupposed to your mind though.
Events at events and stuff.
And I would just be like, you goladies, you go girl.
And I just, right
Francis (34:50):
on.
All right.
So everything with Gail Green issexual.
We, so after our show, we kindof fell in love and she took us
out, mark and I outplatonically.
Um, we went out reviewing withher a couple times and it was
fantastic.
That's where we found thestrawberry pasta when we were
reviewing with the green.
But she related everything backto sex.
And she said, listen, food is,first of all, the first act of
(35:13):
kindness and generosity.
You are showed as a human beingis somebody feeds you Right.
Number one.
I'm like, wow, that's cool.
And at birth.
At birth, right.
And next to sex.
It's the most intimate thing youcan do is to cook food.
To serve food with someone.
I'm like, how does that work?
She's like, you put it in yourbody.
It's the only thing you put inyour body.
You take into your bodysomething that somebody made for
(35:35):
you.
What a level of trust that is.
What, how intimate that is.
And I just think that's so cool.
And I see that in your show.
Do you think you, it's alsoabout the sharing
Mark (35:42):
it a table.
Thank It's also, yeah, it's alsobeing together, sharing food
with, with people we know.
I like the sexy part he'stalking
Francis (35:49):
about.
I can bring it back.
I can bring it back.
So the table is like a, a foodorgy.
That's right.
Where we're all, and everyone
Andrew (35:56):
gets to enjoy their own thing.
Do you, do you think one of themost famous reviews that she's
ever written, Uhhuh, uh,concerned, uh, someone you had,
on as As a guest in this series,on this stage, Rocco's?
That is correct.
Oh, yeah.
At Union Pacific.
Yeah.
That's good.
Um, and I was, I was I, I'deaten at Union Pacific.
(36:19):
That's one of the best meals ofmy life.
I mean, when, when Rocco wascooking there, I, it was just
stunning that the, the level oftalent and stuff that he had.
And he's, he's happily marriedand with children now, but I
gotta text him when I'm donehere and ask him if he ever
stripped Gail.
Francis (36:36):
Oh.
And, uh, if you all sign up, uh,and subscribe to Restaurant Guys
podcast, we'll tell you what theanswer is.
And if we don't know, we'll makeit up.
Um, uh, yeah, so I, I thinkthat, the whole, bringing people
together over meals is prettyamazing.
And that's the, that's theTrojan horse of your show.
It is
Andrew (36:54):
the most important thing, that we do, that we can
share with anyone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, some people.
You know, practice monogamy.
Right?
Right.
Uh, and, and generally if you'rein a relationship with someone,
you learn after a while thatit's much better when you are
focused on one person.
There's a level of trust andintimacy, and you build
(37:16):
something that's important andlasting, and then you have a
foundation for a family and alot of other things.
And I, as, as someone who'stried it 8 million different
ways, through 400 marriages and800 relationships, and growing
up in you're busy man in thesixties and seventies.
I'm old.
Yeah.
Uh, and, and all this, like, itis so much better to find
someone who accepts you forbeing 100% yourself with whom
(37:39):
you can share everything.
Right.
So that's, that's really, that'sreally, really cool.
Um, food, you can be veryindiscriminate.
I mean, you can, you know, yourone night I'm going to, you
know, I'm going out for sushi,and the next night I'm cooking
at home, and then I'm gonna goover to this person's house and
they're gonna make me something.
There is a.
(37:59):
Level of sharing with thatintimacy that crosses more
boundaries than if Gail washere, I would say, than sex
does.
Yeah.
So there's an argument that, itis the most, universal of
intimate acts
Francis (38:17):
that we share.
So can we talk about,'cause wehave spent a little time, like
the one question we're not gonnaask you, at least not un adored,
is, I'm sure that everyone'slike, what's the most unusual
food you had?
But there are some things you'vetalked about in your past that
I, I'm hoping you'll relate.
'cause I don't know thateveryone knows you quite as well
as we do, but you had a, you hada close encounter with, with,
(38:37):
uh, human foreskin as in, as Irecall.
well, I held it in my hand and Iwas ready to eat it.
Good evening and welcome to the New Brunswick
Performing Arts Center.
A portion of the proceeds fromyour ticket purchase today will
benefit the Promise CulinarySchool at Elijah's Promise right
here in New Brunswick.
For those of you that don't knowthe Promise, culinary School is
a state certified vocationalschool and job training program
servicing individuals fromvarious social, economic and
(00:38):
professional backgrounds with apassion for the culinary arts.
You can find out more aboutthem@elijahpromise.org.
The New Brunswick PerformingArts Center doesn't just host
great events like this lectureseries.
Make sure to check out our fulllineup@nbpac.org.
Now.
Without further ado, pleasewelcome everyone's favorite
(00:58):
podcast hosts Mock Pascal andFrancis Shot.
Mark (01:18):
Hello everybody and welcome.
You are here with the restaurantguys.
I'm Mark Pascal.
This is Francis Shot.
Together, we own stage left inCatherine Lombardi restaurants
right over there.
We're here to bring you theinside track on food, wine, and
Francis (01:30):
the finer things in life.
Hello everybody.
It's so nice to have you here.
Uh, this is our fourth in a liveseries here and, um, it's so, so
great that you all showed up.
That's really nice.
We're, we're used to sitting ina room with Jennifer Mark's wife
and our producer and, andrecording a podcast that is
heard by thousands, but we'realways alone in the room, so
it's nice to hear if youactually get our jokes or not.
(01:51):
That's really sweet.
Our next live show, we're gonnado a show in July in New
Orleans.
What's the date again, Mike?
July 22nd.
July 22nd.
So if you're gonna be in the bigEasy around then we'd love to
see you there live and in theworks.
We have a show in Belfast, inIreland coming up.
So, uh.
So, yeah, time for a trip.
Ooh, we got oohs and s we realfast.
Speaker 11 (02:10):
I We'll set you up
Francis (02:10):
with a restaurant recommendation.
It's super fun.
You're driving on the wrong sideof the road.
It's super, yeah, but this issuper fun and, it's a whole new
thing for us.
Um, but it's really an extensionof something we started a long
time ago.
If you're a lot of people whocame to see Andrew, who are not
from New Brunswick, and somefolks who have flown in from as
far away as Chicago and a bunchof other places to see us.
So if it's your first time inNew Brunswick, welcome.
This is the best little city inthe Northeast, in New Brunswick,
(02:32):
New Jersey, and this is the NewBrunswick Performing Arts
Center.
There's lots of cool stuff here,you know, world.
And we old and we started, westarted the restaurant.
We're not old.
We started the Restaurant guyspodcast, the, the week that
podcasts began to exist.
And we did it for eight yearsback then.
And what's amazing is in the 20years we've been doing it, we've
(02:53):
had some really great people on,we've had them on multiple
times.
We took a 10 year break and nowwe're back.
What's really nice is to revisitsome of the folks that have
visited us over, the history ofthe show.
so I think I should introducetoday's guest.
Uh, he doesn't really need anintroduction, but because the
show will get better when hecomes on stage way, it's
definitely gonna happen waybetter.
Um, so he's a four times JamesBeard Award winner, A man's
(03:17):
journey to the edges of theearth and the heart of our food
culture through Bizarre Foods.
He introduced us to the richnessand diversity of global cuisine,
often one crunchy insect at atime.
Um, Andrew is more than just atelevision personality.
He's an award-winning chef, awriter, a teacher.
He helps us see communityculture and the environment
through the powerful lens offood.
(03:37):
We're big fans.
He was an early restaurant guy'sguest first appearing on our
show 18 years ago in June of2007.
This is his fourth appearancewith the restaurant guys, and
the first one that we actuallyhave him live in New Brunswick.
The show.
Mark (04:10):
Andrew's really good at the bro hug.
You guys saw that?
Andrew (04:12):
Yeah.
I am really good at that.
By the way, when we did, uh,sound check earlier, there were
not four big bottles of waterhere.
So clearly things are about toget really hot.
Francis (04:24):
It's,
Andrew (04:25):
it's important to stay hydrated.
Mark (04:26):
So Andrew's Andrew, we do Andrew's introduction and we're
writing his introduction.
We're like, what comes next?
Like, first of his name, motherof Dragons, breaker of chains.
I mean, how many, how manytitles do you have
Andrew (04:38):
Mr.
Game of
Mark (04:39):
Thrones?
Andrew (04:39):
I got a lot.
Uh, Wednesday night.
Uh, a documentary that, Iproduced my production company,
made it, which means I have myname on it, but I essentially
have nothing to do with it atall.
Um, well, I I actually shouldn'tsay that.
That's a little tooself-deprecating.
It was, it's, uh, about the bluefoods movement and it's about
(05:00):
how we protect, uh, our oceansand produce outta them at the
same time.
Mm-hmm.
2 billion people, it's theirmain source of protein.
A billion people work on thewater, so you can't just turn
the.
Ocean off.
Right?
Right.
I mean, a, a big FU to the guysthat made that, documentary Cspi
that was on Netflix, which gotit all wrong and was not
factually based.
(05:20):
And we had a hundred scientistsand agencies all over the world
vetting this thing for PBS.
It was a multi, part series.
I know people are recordingthis.
If you know anyone who made cspitell them personally from me to
go screw themselves, um, reallyharmful, harmful, information
they put out there, or lackthereof.
Uh, but I was nominated for anEmmy again and I lost, and, uh,
(05:47):
the next day, Thursday I washaving to talk to somebody who
didn't know how to tell somebodythat they didn't get the per,
you know, it was something verysmall, you know, like I didn't
get the milk that I wanted, thesupermarket, and I was like.
If you, you, you know, you don'tget it.
If you knew real pain of sittingthere and not hearing your name
(06:10):
called and smiling and clappingfor the next person.
So many times get well.
I was not the one who clappedbecause I'm the one who's honest
enough to admit being nominatedis great, but there are no
being, getting to a certainpoint in your career means you
are so driven.
You have for, there's childrenthat I have, I have.
(06:32):
Maid whose names I don't know.
I have to show ID to them when Icome home from a trip.
I'm your father.
Mark (06:39):
I'm your dad.
I, I really thought you weregonna say, there are children
who have been in my way and Ijust shouted them out of the
way.
That's Well, that too, that'swhat I was thinking.
Andrew (06:46):
So you have the most driven, competitive people in
the world, in an industry thatis literally dying, where every
week you see another 20% ofpeople being lost and everyone's
like, you know, it's just niceto be nominated.
I don't need to win.
It's like, what?
I don't need to win.
Francis (07:00):
Like, alright.
Alright.
I have to, I have crocodiletears a little bit here because
you've won everything and Ijust, we know that you, you
hosted the James Beard Awardsthis year and Mark and I were
conjecturing that I'm four for15 at the beards.
I'm one for
Andrew (07:17):
six.
At the Emmy's.
You won four beard awards.
That's amazing.
That's, I'm lucky.
I'm, I'm, I'm the luckiest guyin the whole, I literally should
be dead.
I mean, literally should bedead.
Um.
I'm a longtime, sober guy andbeen, you know, I mean, I
literally, this, the last 33 anda half years have been a gift
(07:37):
from God.
And that's, you know, why I tryto do things for other people.
But I'm very, very, uh, blessedthat career wise, I have had
achievements that other people,and by the way, every time
you're nominated for something,yeah.
It, I don't believe it's all Icare about is being nominated.
I want to win.
(07:58):
However, the other people allare nominated for a very good
reason.
So I freely acknowledge thatpart of it.
Francis (08:04):
Yeah.
Andrew (08:04):
Well, where are you going with this question?
Francis (08:06):
I, I was that today?
I don't know where I'm goingwith it.
No, I, I was saying that I, markand I were conjecturing that
they made you the host'causethey ran out of Beard Awards to
give you,'cause you'd won'emalready.
Yeah.
That was,
Andrew (08:17):
uh, the, uh, you know what's really kind of funny?
Um, I.
I think that they try to mix itup like a Target Christmas
commercial.
And they needed, like, who do weget in the, in the 65-year-old
white guy category?
It's like Alton Brown hasretired.
(08:38):
The other three or four,Jonathan Waxman will say no.
Like, who could we ask?
And someone goes, ask Zimmer.
And he says yes to everything.
Francis (08:47):
Well, can can we go, can we start with when you came
on our show years ago, low,those many, 2007 was the first
trip.
Long time ago.
Yes.
But none of this had sort ofstarted yet.
You were just getting on tv.
Uh, it had sort, yes.
Yeah,
Andrew (09:01):
it had, it had, it had started in a weird, I made a
very, very conscious decision,uh, in 1999, uh, to get out of
day-to-day restaurantoperations.
And,
Mark (09:15):
uh, I, I made that decision in 1999 as well.
But, and you're still in it, butyou guys see me on the floor
every night.
I, so by the way, you can makethat decision.
It doesn't mean it by the way,you can manifest it.
Same,
Andrew (09:24):
same here, because I, I, I also told you very that two
things can be true at the sametime I got out of them.
But this is my 50th year ofbeing in restaurants,
continuously taking paycheckfrom a restaurant two weeks to
50th anniversary.
So it's a very, very strange yinyang thing.
But I got out of dailyrestaurant ops and I took a job
as an intern, you know, the 305-year-old intern or whatever,
(09:47):
at, um, a radio station or TVstation in a glossy monthly
magazine mm-hmm.
In Minnesota to try to teachmyself, give myself the
syllabus, you know, my own sortof education and how to do media
because I had some naturalability.
But there is a lot of technicalstuff you gotta learn how to do
(10:08):
if you wanna sort of rise to thetop.
And I'm a very competitive, sortof driven person by the time.
I did the show with you, uh,bizarre Foods premiered in 2007,
but I had been, uh, you know, aguest on people's show.
Then I, then I was a regularYeah.
On some, uh, group shows, what,whatever they call those.
(10:32):
There's a word for that.
you know, so and so is gonna dothis, so, and Andrew Zimmer's
gonna have a recipe, you know,it's a, with these like, so, uh,
I did that and one of them wasfor an HGTV show on which, uh, I
was, uh, the house chef.
So I would give tips, uh,cooking tips on a show called
Typical Mary Ellen, TIP dashICAL.
(10:55):
That's not that witty.
No, it wasn't.
It wasn't.
It was a, it's a good try.
Mary Ellen.
Terrible show.
Terrible show Helmed by, by thedumbest human beings of all
time.
I, I had, and I mean that withlove.
I had, I love stupid people too.
I was new to television, this ishow moronic they were.
I was new to television and Iremember the producers and the
(11:17):
hosts and everything celebratingone day.
And I said, oh, what happened?
It's like they ordered another,like 63 shows or something, so
we're gonna be taping for thenext like four or five months.
And they're like, you know,isn't that great?
And I just thought to myself, doyou not see, they're just taking
care of every option at acertain cost in the contract.
(11:38):
Mm-hmm.
The show's doing a big number.
They're trying to get you to do200 shows in that contract term
at this price, because Godforbid you get outside that
contract term and your agents ormanagers or you yourself pay the
$10 to find out what the ratingsare.
And you're like, oh, we'rerating really well, no, and I,
(11:59):
and at one point I said tosomeone backstage, she said, why
are you laughing?
I was like laughing to myself.
I said.
They're doing well.
They're just gonna like cut thecord.
They'll, they'll run reruns
Francis (12:09):
right?
All
Andrew (12:09):
the time.
If you have 250 episodes ofsomething, you can run it once a
week and you're not gonna repeata show for five years.
Yep.
You know, and sure enough, thenext year they were gone.
But I was the, I was the foodguy and I just started pitching
my own sort of TV stuff in 2005.
Uh, did a couple pilots in endof 2005.
(12:32):
They aired both of them in 2006.
One was about sports, one wasabout food.
Well, they're both about food.
Just one was sports and onewith, uh, you know, called the
Bizarre Foods of Asia.
And the sports one was calledWorld's Best Ballpark Foods,
where I went around stadiumsaround the world eating and I
was praying, please God, let medo the ballpark show really well
(12:53):
because I love sports.
Did that have good ratings?
The ballpark show it.
It was Travel Channel in, Ithink the highest rate show on
Travel Channel at the time wassomething called World's Best
Bathroom.
Oh, seriously.
I mean, so you guys rememberthat, that Andrew, that was the
actual show.
I, I
Francis (13:10):
just wanna say
Andrew (13:11):
you've come a long way, baby.
Thank you.
So, so we, the Bizarre FoodsEdge out the other one by like a
10th of a ratings point.
So they bought Bizarre Foods.
Well, they bought eightepisodes.
You go out and make it eightepisodes and then they air them
and you hope that something goodhappens and you get more.
Francis (13:26):
One question about starting Bizarre Foods.
Yeah.
And we had you on shortly afterBizarre Foods started.
Correct.
'cause I remember when we, noone else
Andrew (13:34):
would happen several more times after
Francis (13:35):
that.
No, you were the darling, but wegot you early.
We could you early.
No one else would happen.
So, but here's the thing.
When we're watching the show,we're like, he's eating what?
And what the hell were youthinking?
Where did that come from?
Andrew (13:48):
It was very, it was, it was actually very strategic.
If, if you go back, uh, year,season one, eight episodes and
like three episodes into seasontwo, I ain't.
More animal feces, dead things,uh, accidental animal.
If you eat rotten potatoes inthe mountains of chili, the
(14:10):
farmers just scoop them up withthe rabbit shit that's in there
and they throw it all into thesoup pot.
And I'm just sitting theregoing, oh
Francis (14:17):
my gosh.
You know, like, but a certain,as certain earthy quality to it.
I, yeah, I think that's how I
Andrew (14:22):
described it.
Um, tannic.
Yeah, tannic and grassy.
Tannic.
Yeah.
And, and you know, so you, you,you eat all these, these and a
lot of bugs and a lot of rottenthings.
Yeah.
And my idea was,'cause I soldthe network, and I've said this
quite a bit, I may have evensaid it back then.
(14:42):
I, I sold them a Trojan horse,which was, they wanted me to be
fat white guy goes around worldeats bugs, and that that was
gonna be grabby and stick.
There
Mark (14:52):
are, there are fatter white guys.
I wanted, I'm just letting, I'mjust letting you know.
Let's,
Andrew (14:56):
I, I wanted to do.
Um, a show about teaching theworld patience, tolerance, and
understanding on a planet that Ifelt was getting increasingly
divisive and was notunderstanding that all cultures
are equal.
Mark (15:15):
By the way, that was 2007.
That was not last week.
That was
Andrew (15:18):
and valid.
So, um, and they, and, and theysaid, your show is a PBS thing.
It'll last three episodes andyour, your loved ones will
applaud and then you're done.
Give us more entertainment.
So I came up with this hook andI had studied TV very, very
seriously, and I, I knew thatthe network and the production
(15:41):
company had all the leverage.
When you start, you know,they're like, Zimmern, stand
over there.
And you don't, you just say yes.
The minute the show does well,I.
It's, it becomes, what we say inthe industry is talent driven
uhhuh.
It becomes a talent driven, notthe boss.
We're still waiting
Mark (15:58):
to get to that point.
And then
Andrew (16:00):
then network executives say, what, what 25 countries do
you want to go to next year?
Right.
You know, what do you want todo?
Right.
I wasn't asked, uh, uh,anything, you know, the first go
round, I mean, you're right.
You did what
Francis (16:14):
they said.
Andrew (16:14):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
I mean, you were really, it isyour, and by the way, I
would've, I would've done itwearing a, a, a chain vest if
they wanted me to because it'syour first big break, your own
show.
It's Bizarre Foods
Speaker 11 (16:30):
with Andrew Zimmer,
Andrew (16:31):
and later on it was Bizarre Foods with Andrew
Zimmer, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you, you, you hope that ittransitions and then you get to
bring something to it.
So the idea was the hook is,let's do it, but now let's
explore the culture more so byseason three or four, I think
the last.
250 shows I probably ate fivebugs.
(16:53):
The first 12 shows I ate 200bugs.
Francis (16:57):
You know, species, species of bugs.
Right?
Yeah.
Well, so I, I remember thinkingat the end of the first show,
and I'm like, and when we, thenwe met you and we thought it was
terrific, and we, I we didn'tquite figure out that what
you're doing is you're reallymaking a show about cultures
through the lens of food andthrough unfamiliar foods.
Mm-hmm.
Which is very freakinginteresting.
Yeah.
My initial thought was, he'sgonna run outta gross things.
(17:18):
Right.
What are you gonna do next year?
What's he gonna eat next time?
When I
Andrew (17:21):
pitched the network, this is a true story.
I've not shared this a lot.
The, uh, I went in and I pitchedthem on my dream show.
Uh, arguably the worst title inthe history of traveling food
shows.
Are you ready for it?
Yes.
The wandering spoon
Francis (17:39):
That sounds like someone who wanders around and
wants to hug you in
Andrew (17:42):
bed.
That's bad.
That's bad.
Francis (17:44):
Yeah.
Andrew (17:45):
And, uh, it, it was just this.
You know, I mean this rosyeducational thing, but they
liked me as talent.
And the other shows hadperformed, the pilots had
performed, uh, well, or sorry, Ihadn't done the pilots yet.
The, the clips that I had sentthem that I had made on my own
dime head test, like the peoplenever were like, I like this
(18:06):
guy.
He's raw.
He needs to learn how to do tv,but we like him and we think
audiences will like him.
Uh, is that true?
Which it, thank you.
Mark (18:20):
That's not too good.
No, you, you couldn't have saidit, but I, I, I could say that.
Yeah.
Uh, by the way, I will say theykind of went woo.
It was weak.
It was weak.
Yeah.
Andrew (18:29):
Um, so, you know, we, we we're trying to, they said to me
literally in the room when Ipitched the wandering spoon.
That's great.
That's not our show.
We're in.
People watch TV because it'sentertainment.
That's education.
And Pat Young, the head of thetravel channel said, you've just
told me something that's 80%education, 20% entertainment.
(18:51):
Gimme something that's 75%entertainment and I will let you
put the 25% of education in.
Love it, love it.
He, he says, but you'll be on TVfor the rest of your life and
you're, you will get a chance topreach all the message that you
want.
It's just that we got a leadwith entertainment.
He said, come back tomorrowmorning.
This is four o'clock.
I'm in the discovery building inBethesda, Maryland, and, uh, I'm
(19:14):
nervous as hell.
I pitched this thing and hesays, but I'll give you 15
minutes tomorrow to fix this.
And I went home that night, andI like college except I was
sober.
Uh, but, you know, uh, I did theall-nighter and just figured out
there was no chat.
GPTI actually like legal padsand, you know, I'm just paper.
(19:35):
And, and I finally figured outthe, I walked back in the next
day and I said, we're not goingto do a.
Chicken breasts in this show,we're gonna tell stories from
the edges of culture aboutfoods.
No one eats.
And he turned to me and he said,so that's like 12 things.
And I literally, they had thishuge map.
(19:57):
I mean the, the boardroom at thediscovery building was like the
size of this theater.
And he hits a button and a mapof the world comes down, one of
those flat ones.
And I get a laser pointer.
Someone rolls down theconference table to me and he
says, tell me how many shows youcan do.
and luckily, and, and this is Ithink true of, of not just
(20:18):
myself, but people who arereally good, you know, uh, Tony,
Alton, A lot of people who dothe same kind of things that I
do.
we live our brands.
We are who we are before we didthat TV show, right?
We are.
This is me.
I only got one gear.
Right.
You know, Tony was, Tony out isout.
He really is that he's not likestudy, he's not a character.
(20:40):
Mm-hmm.
He's playing.
which is what makes going out todinner with him so much fun.
Uh, but I just sat there and Iwent well, and I just went
around and by the time I'm donewith, you know, snails screwing
in France and snail caviar andsomeone goes, is that a thing?
And like we put it in the Parisepisode, season one.
(21:01):
I'm saying, of course it's athing.
And, uh, the greatest promo Iever did, walking into a room, 3
million pairs of helix snails,all making love at the same
time.
And, and I open the doorcameraman on the inside, he pans
over and pans back.
(21:21):
And I'm like.
Shh.
Speaker 11 (21:22):
They're making love.
Francis (21:26):
Best promo
Andrew (21:27):
I ever did.
What music
Francis (21:28):
was playing at the time?
Was there like a romantic Johnkick a bow bounce?
I mean, that's what I thought.
What a assumed naive.
Andrew (21:33):
What A naive question's.
What I assumed.
Mark (21:35):
That's what I assumed.
So seriously, when Francis and Istarted at the radio station,
they, we were talking aboutdoing a five day a week show.
An hour a day.
And they're like, you know, isthere enough material?
And Francis and I looked at eachother and we're like, I'm, you
know, I'm not sure.
Let's get out a yellow pad,which is exactly what we did.
And we said, let's write down afew show ideas.
And in like an hour we had ahundred shows.
(21:56):
Oh yeah, yeah.
And we were like, okay, we can,we can definitely do this.
There's, there's
Andrew (22:00):
not, it occurred to me at one point that there's not a
culture in the world really,except ours and one or two
others that, uh, but mostlyours, where they don't eat every
part of every animal.
Mm-hmm.
Or someone does.
And the more you go back inhistory, and then I started to
say, what if I started to livewith some of the.
(22:21):
You know, 108 protected tribesaround the world.
Um, and I, what if I, what if Ivisited, you know, indigenous
peoples, from lap lands inFinland to, uh, the men Wata
Sioux in Minnesota where I live.
And then I was like, all of asudden this whole like,
landscape opened up and I wasjust like, oh my gosh.
(22:43):
this could go on forever.
Francis (22:46):
Yeah.
Well, and I think, you know,you, you approach it a different
culture that has different foodthan you do, right?
So if you think, if you comefrom a, a culture where it's
vegetarian or even a mediumculture that doesn't have cheese
as a part of its culture, andthen you try to explain to them,
well, so you take this animal,no, it's not human.
And then you take its milk.
Yeah, that's right.
It's milk that it means there'sa baby and then you let it go
bad.
(23:06):
And then you stick it for a longtime and then you eat it.
That's really, but not until themold goes
Mark (23:10):
out, gets on.
Yeah.
Until the mold goes out.
You don't eat it until the moldgoes,
Francis (23:13):
and so the
Andrew (23:13):
mold is blue.
And that's really revolting.
Did you see my, uh, no.
My episode in Uganda with theChaga?
No, no.
So we're sitting there and weleft this in the show.
My cameraman started rollingthis Chaga Tribesman comes into
my tent because I'm eatingTriscuits and uh, uh, cracker
(23:34):
Barrel, extra sharp.
Francis (23:37):
And, um, hold on.
Who's, whose impression ofAndrew has just dropped a couple
of points.
Yeah.
The, the magic's gone.
The bloom is off the road.
Well, you have to have
Andrew (23:45):
stuff that
Francis (23:46):
will
Andrew (23:46):
stay Yeah, of course.
In your bag.
I was only kidding.
I said, no, no, no.
It is a great question.
so he comes in and I offered himthe bag of crackers and, you
know, the box of crackers, andhe digs and he grabs a couple
Triscuits.
And I had my knife and I cutoff, you know, and I stab the
square triangles or squarerectangles and I, you know,
square pieces, whatever.
(24:08):
And I, I hold them up and helike, literally like, like I
was.
Putting a torch of open flame infront of him.
And he looked at me and he said,what is it with you Americans?
You take perfectly good milk andlet it rot.
Francis (24:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that, but I mean, I thinkthat's one of the things that I,
I really came to realize lookingat your show.
I was like, well that's'causeit's unfamiliar to us.
Right.
Credit
Mark (24:33):
reference means everything and, uh, correct.
Francis (24:34):
You know,
Andrew (24:35):
in Argentina they don't eat peanut butter.
They think it's horrificallygross.
They laugh, laugh at us foreating peanut butter.
So we ran a little thing to tryto do for a promo that worked
beautifully where someone, wehad the, the production
department, DHL back from, fromhome, of Jar of Skippy and we
(24:58):
had me on the street inArgentina was, it was actually a
big square where everyone comesat night to eat sausage
sandwiches and you know, makeout with their loved one.
And, uh, watch the stars and,uh, walk around And there was
some kid came by and I kneltdown and I was like, would you
like some peanut butter?
And some big dude comes over,kicks me over, A woman is
(25:22):
screaming at me in a language Idon't speak.
And they're like, andessentially the, our fixer said,
um, you can't just go up to kidsand offer something.
It would be like going into apark in America with a bottle
of, of booze, right.
To a little kid.
(25:42):
Like they don't eat peanutbutter.
And I'm sitting there trying toget a kid, you know,'cause I
think it's cute and funny.
So you learn.
Okay, I thought you were gonna
Mark (25:48):
go white van candy.
No.
You gotta think
Francis (25:51):
I was, you gotta think these things through though.
I was in your head for thatwhole thing until you talked
about the guy kicking you.
And I thought, well, if thatwere my kid and I didn't know,
you'd probably kidding.
I hundred percent like crazyguy.
As a parent, I'm like, I get youdude.
So.
Talk to us about, you said it's,you know, Kevin SRA said this
about wine.
Kevin's really is a famous wineeducator and he was probably one
(26:12):
of the most successful basicwine educators in the world.
And he's a mentor of mine, hesaid, Francis, if you wanna
teach wine classes, do you wannateach people to become a master
of wine?
Or do you wanna teach consumershow to really love and enjoy
wine?
And that's wine entertainment,like your food entertainment.
That's right.
But you put the, but the Trojanhorse is the message in it.
So what was the Trojan horsethat, that came out through?
Let's talk about the, thebizarre foods, What was the
(26:34):
universal truth you werebringing?
Being out from it?
Andrew (26:38):
That everybody wants the same things for their families
and the people that we love.
Mm-hmm.
That as human beings, we havethe same desires.
Speaker 11 (26:49):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (26:50):
And that some of us have gotten a little off path, and
it's why I asked 14 differentholy people.
Uh, in the history of the showand another eight or nine away
from cameras.
'cause I've been fortunateenough to have lunch, in Germany
with the Dalai Lama.
And, uh, I met a Pope and, uh,you know, other people like that
(27:15):
who I think have a little bit onthe ball, uh, spiritually.
Mm-hmm.
And I've asked all of them whyare we here?
what do you tell people is ourpoint of being on planet Earth?
And every single one of themsaid the same thing.
Well, they all laughed at melike I was a moron.
Which is true because if youhave certainty, the, the pope
said to me, I asked him, I usedthe word faith.
(27:37):
He said, I don't have faith, Ihave certainty.
And I was just like, whoa,heavy.
I mean, I was just like, oh,that's why you're a pope.
Francis (27:43):
Like can you, that's why you're the Pope.
Um, I just, I just want pointout that he is infallible, so
he's better than the rest of us.
That infallible.
If you're God on earth, ifyou're Catholic's knows That's
right.
He has certainty.
I mean, he has certainty,
Andrew (27:55):
But everyone said the same thing.
we're put on this earth to loveone another.
Mm-hmm.
Period.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So along with that comessupporting your community and
being a good human being anddoing right by others.
And all of the 10 Commandmentsstuff and, and things I needed
to learn.
Everything I needed to know, Ilearned in kindergarten.
(28:15):
All that stuff is what we're,what we're here for.
So when I am in, a tribal partof the world, or I am, with gang
members in pps, hostile.
In Johannesburg, a place thearmy doesn't even go into in
that country.
that they basically just put awall around the neighborhood and
(28:36):
said, we're not even gonna go inthere.
We're just gonna let everyoneelse sort of, they let them
govern themselves, right?
I mean, the favela that I wentinto in, in, in Rio had 400,000
people all under the watchfuleye of a benevolent, uh, narco
terrorist who made his moneyselling drugs internationally
and weapons internationally.
(28:57):
but he supplied that small city,400,000 people, okay?
400,000 people live there withelectricity and water and all
the rest of, so these are poorpeople who come from all over
Brazil.
They're very loyal to this man.
He's running a small city,arguably better than a lot of
mayors do.
I hate to say it right?
(29:17):
I mean, so once you get inthere, our mayor, you start,
mayor doesn't break here.
You start showing people.
That what you think of Oh, as anarco terrace has to be a
terrible human being.
Well, in his day job, yeah.
he's very dangerous.
And number three on interpols,uh, terrorists.
But at night he's just a card,when you tell stories at the
(29:40):
extremes Yeah.
You let people make their owndecisions and come back to the
middle So you have to introducea cast of characters over 300
episodes.
That, in its totality, shows youthat human beings are human
beings, but we all kind of wantthe same things for our families
and our loved ones.
Mark (29:59):
Well, and one of those things that we want.
and I think that's been the,center of your career, right?
Is we wanna sit around a tabletogether.
Yes.
We want to share a mealtogether.
That's such an important part ofwho we are and how we express
that care for our family andeach other.
And that's why do we
Andrew (30:16):
not do it more often then?
We've, we've lost the familymeal.
Mark (30:21):
Well, the culturally we have, there's, there's not
enough of it.
listen, almost everybody hereshares meals in my restaurant.
Yep.
It's, it's what makes me
Andrew (30:31):
happy.
Well, we're just, I just meanculturally we're time poor.
I mean, I agree with you 100%.
We need it.
We need more of it.
It's why when Magnolia Networkcame to me and said, we want an
Andrew Zimmer show, what do youwanna do?
And I right away said it'scalled family dinner.
every episode of Bizarre Foods,every single one, 300 some odd,
every episode of Driven By Food,every episode of Zimmer List, I
(30:53):
mean, probably nine series had afamily meal in it.
trust me, this is the thing thateveryone can relate to, but I'm
gonna show we we need this.
And it wound up coming outduring COVI and was on for three
seasons.
I have really bad luck.
I'm pretty good at identifyingwhat I think people are going to
(31:14):
wanna watch.
And then at some point, thetelevision network that I'm on
decides like a radio stationthat goes from classical to
country Western.
Yeah.
You know, a travel channelcalled me up one day and said.
Uh, we want you to hear itfirst.
'cause at that time, Tony hadleft and was on CNN, right?
I have the number one showtravel Channel called me and
(31:37):
said, well, I was in the fielddoing something.
And, they said, we're, we'rechanging to a ghost in
paranormal show starting, uh,network starting tomorrow.
And I said, well, how does thatwork?
It's like, you're done.
We're right.
You're fired, you know?
And I said, lemme call you backin a couple minutes.
And I called my agent, he said,ghost a week.
(31:57):
And, and I said, what, what do Isay to this Vice President of
programming?
And he said, well.
They gotta pay you for that.
You got two more years in yourcontract, so you just say thank
you and come home.
So I called them back and I saidthank you.
And I, and I went home.
That's great.
But Travel Channel became, well,it's not great'cause I wanna
keep making bizarre films even.
Hold on.
You
Francis (32:17):
got paid even though they ghosted you.
Oh
Andrew (32:22):
well they, they ghosted me.
They also had a, they they alsohad a vowel movement.
They lost their vowels.
It became turvy.
Sorry I won that round, Andrew.
You did?
I won that round.
Won that round One zero.
Boom.
Alright.
Uh, so, and then at, at Magnoliathey said, okay, we decided
we're not gonna do food showsanymore.
that's the business that I choseto be, but that's why I did
(32:44):
family dinner because I wantpeople.
To see the power of gatheringaround a table.
And I've become a little morepatient with everyone's story
because we all are time poor andwe're all trying to get kids to
practice, and we all have jobsthat are late we're not living
on a farm 150 years ago.
Right.
Well, but I would like people toemphasize a time, to share a
(33:10):
meal and actually communicatewith one another because
societally, culturally,interpersonally, we are
quantifiably better off when wedo that on a regular basis.
Francis (33:25):
A hundred percent.
You know, and Mark and I,probably the smarter business
move for us would've been toopen a restaurant, run it for
five years, sell thatrestaurant, or take on partners
and open a bunch of restaurantsand sell them all.
We'd be retired by now.
Yes.
Um, but we really like havingtwo restaurants in this town
where we had been for yearsbefore.
And, we have regular customersthat come in all the time.
(33:45):
Right.
And we don't have TVs.
Right.
And people turn off and share ameal.
I remember we interviewed GailGreen years ago, and she said
she was very smart.
You remember Gail Green?
She was the first femalerestaurant critic in New York
for New York Magazine.
It was tremendous.
founded City Meals On Meals onWheel, founded City, meals on
Wheels, had sex with Elvis.
She did.
(34:06):
It's in a book.
She, I hate to tell you she had
Andrew (34:07):
sex with everybody.
Everybody, yeah, I know.
I know.
But most people aren't asnotable as Elvis.
But I, I did not have sex withher.
However, I, one of my businesspartners had a lot of sex with
her.
Excellent.
And, and told me that it was,uh, despite their age gap, uh,
or maybe because of it, I said.
Well, how was it, you know,because she famously had an
(34:28):
enormous appetite.
Yes.
Uh, and she told us this on theshow.
Oh, yeah.
No,
Francis (34:32):
she's very open.
One of our top downloaded shows,very open about it.
Andrew (34:35):
And uh, and he literally said to me, blew my mind.
And I was like, I was like, GailGreen.
And I would see her, they're notsupposed to your mind though.
Events at events and stuff.
And I would just be like, you goladies, you go girl.
And I just, right
Francis (34:50):
on.
All right.
So everything with Gail Green issexual.
We, so after our show, we kindof fell in love and she took us
out, mark and I outplatonically.
Um, we went out reviewing withher a couple times and it was
fantastic.
That's where we found thestrawberry pasta when we were
reviewing with the green.
But she related everything backto sex.
And she said, listen, food is,first of all, the first act of
(35:13):
kindness and generosity.
You are showed as a human beingis somebody feeds you Right.
Number one.
I'm like, wow, that's cool.
And at birth.
At birth, right.
And next to sex.
It's the most intimate thing youcan do is to cook food.
To serve food with someone.
I'm like, how does that work?
She's like, you put it in yourbody.
It's the only thing you put inyour body.
You take into your bodysomething that somebody made for
(35:35):
you.
What a level of trust that is.
What, how intimate that is.
And I just think that's so cool.
And I see that in your show.
Do you think you, it's alsoabout the sharing
Mark (35:42):
it a table.
Thank It's also, yeah, it's alsobeing together, sharing food
with, with people we know.
I like the sexy part he'stalking
Francis (35:49):
about.
I can bring it back.
I can bring it back.
So the table is like a, a foodorgy.
That's right.
Where we're all, and everyone
Andrew (35:56):
gets to enjoy their own thing.
Do you, do you think one of themost famous reviews that she's
ever written, Uhhuh, uh,concerned, uh, someone you had,
on as As a guest in this series,on this stage, Rocco's?
That is correct.
Oh, yeah.
At Union Pacific.
Yeah.
That's good.
Um, and I was, I was I, I'deaten at Union Pacific.
(36:19):
That's one of the best meals ofmy life.
I mean, when, when Rocco wascooking there, I, it was just
stunning that the, the level oftalent and stuff that he had.
And he's, he's happily marriedand with children now, but I
gotta text him when I'm donehere and ask him if he ever
stripped Gail.
Francis (36:36):
Oh.
And, uh, if you all sign up, uh,and subscribe to Restaurant Guys
podcast, we'll tell you what theanswer is.
And if we don't know, we'll makeit up.
Um, uh, yeah, so I, I thinkthat, the whole, bringing people
together over meals is prettyamazing.
And that's the, that's theTrojan horse of your show.
It is
Andrew (36:54):
the most important thing, that we do, that we can
share with anyone.
Mm-hmm.
Um, some people.
You know, practice monogamy.
Right?
Right.
Uh, and, and generally if you'rein a relationship with someone,
you learn after a while thatit's much better when you are
focused on one person.
There's a level of trust andintimacy, and you build
(37:16):
something that's important andlasting, and then you have a
foundation for a family and alot of other things.
And I, as, as someone who'stried it 8 million different
ways, through 400 marriages and800 relationships, and growing
up in you're busy man in thesixties and seventies.
I'm old.
Yeah.
Uh, and, and all this, like, itis so much better to find
someone who accepts you forbeing 100% yourself with whom
(37:39):
you can share everything.
Right.
So that's, that's really, that'sreally, really cool.
Um, food, you can be veryindiscriminate.
I mean, you can, you know, yourone night I'm going to, you
know, I'm going out for sushi,and the next night I'm cooking
at home, and then I'm gonna goover to this person's house and
they're gonna make me something.
There is a.
(37:59):
Level of sharing with thatintimacy that crosses more
boundaries than if Gail washere, I would say, than sex
does.
Yeah.
So there's an argument that, itis the most, universal of
intimate acts
Francis (38:17):
that we share.
So can we talk about,'cause wehave spent a little time, like
the one question we're not gonnaask you, at least not un adored,
is, I'm sure that everyone'slike, what's the most unusual
food you had?
But there are some things you'vetalked about in your past that
I, I'm hoping you'll relate.
'cause I don't know thateveryone knows you quite as well
as we do, but you had a, you hada close encounter with, with,
(38:37):
uh, human foreskin as in, as Irecall.
well, I held it in my hand and Iwas ready to eat it.
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