November 13, 2025 • 38 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2012.
The Banter
The Guys talk about The Balkans International Wine Competition and the implementation of Wine Diplomacy. Hear the Balkan wine suggestions you didn’t know you needed.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys are joined by Johnny Schuler from his vineyards in Peru. He runs the oldest working distillery in the Americas that is both state-of-the-art and traditional to create the classic pisco that has been made there for centuries (yes, centuries!).
The Inside Track
The Guys came across Johnny when they were learning about his beloved pisco. Both Peruvians are unique and something you want to have in your restaurant.
“My argument that pisco is for friendship, pisco is for drinking pisco is for conversation,” Johnny Schuler on The Restaurant Guys 2012
Bio
Johnny Schuler is one of the world’s leading ambassadors of Peruvian pisco. A restaurateur, distiller, and TV host, he’s best known for guiding audiences through the history, craft, and culture of Peru’s national spirit on the hit television series “Por Las Rutas del Pisco”.
As master distiller at Pisco Portón / La Caravedo, Schuler helped introduce premium Peruvian pisco to a global audience. For more than 20 years, Johnny has played an integral role in rallying government ministries and the private sector to regulate the Pisco industry in Peru. The Peruvian Congress awarded Johnny the Medal of Honor.
Info
Caravedo Pisco
https://www.caravedopisco.com/hacienda-la-caravedo
Book Johnny mentioned
The Barbary Coast: An Informal History of the San Francisco Underworld
by Herbert Asbury
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Francis (2) (01:58):
Hello, mark.
Morning Francis.
Uh, how are you this morning?
I'm terrific.
This is my first show back sincehaving visited the, Balkans.
I was actually out at theBalkans International Wine
Competition.
Crazy, huh?
Mark (02:11):
Well, I would say interesting, but I don't know.
Francis (2) (02:16):
No, really It was, it was crazy.
It was held in, uh, Sophia,Bulgaria.
Mark (02:22):
So what, wines were there?
What, wine producing countrieswere, were in?
Bulgaria, Serbia,
Francis (2) (02:27):
Bulgaria, Greece was there because that's on the
Balkan Peninsula.
Okay.
Mark (02:30):
Now we talked about Greek wines on the, on the show
before, and yeah, I think, uh,they, they reemerged first from
this area.
Francis (2) (02:36):
I mean, people don't often think of Greece as a
Balkan country and Greece was,uh, you know, Greek wines in
this country are, are reallyhave a foothold that's been
building for years.
And the other Balkan winesdon't.
You
Mark (02:49):
don't see a lot of Bulgarian wine out there, but
we, and I, and I haven't triedany wines from those, from those
other places yet, but I havetried the Greek wines and
they're very interesting andvery good, and are very, and
getting better, all sunny andgetting better.
Every vintage
Francis (2) (03:00):
now in the Balkan countries, the Balkan comp
countries that I tasted a lot ofwines from were Macedonia.
Uh, Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria,that's where most of my tasting
mm-hmm.
Uh, was, sort of, was centered.
Mark (03:12):
And did you have experience with those types of
wines before?
This?
Francis (2) (03:15):
Not, not a one.
Literally never had a Bulgarianwine before.
I was in Bulgaria.
Never had a Serbian wine beforeI was in Bulgaria.
And, um, this was a competition.
the panel of judges wasdistinguished wine,
professionals from all aroundthe world.
I was not a judge.
I was there as a participant.
which is not to say I'm notdistinguished'cause, you know,
I've got gray hair.
Um, but I, I really found awhole new thing.
(03:38):
And what's interesting is thisis an emerging wine region and.
But it's also a historical wineregion and you know that the For
Yoli is out there, need to know.
That's what Mark and I love tofind, is people who are, are
resurrecting traditiontraditions that were lost, you
know?
And I think that comes fromgrowing up with bakery bread in
some time.
When I was six, my motherswitched to wonder and now I'm
(03:59):
back in, you know, I'm like, whydid you do that?
Mark (04:01):
Yeah.
When did a hotdog roll become ahotdog roll?
Yeah.
That's, that's kind of thetheory.
Francis (2) (04:07):
Well, and, and here's what happened in many of
the Balkan countries, I mean,world War II dealt a serious
blow to, um, wine production inthe Balkans and in Eastern
Europe in general in, inHungary, and Slovakia as well.
Then after the war, communismwas no great friend of high
quality wine.
I mean, that, that goes forHungary, that goes for Slovakia.
Mark (04:28):
Sure.
You know, any of, any of thosecountries that were behind the
Iron Curtain, if profit was notthe motivation.
Well, there's, it's a lot morework to make great wine.
Right.
And also,
Francis (2) (04:38):
you know, you had, let's remember after World War
ii, there was a glut in wine.
So you had a, a worldwide glutand not very much demand.
So you had problems in Bordeauxand Burgundy as they tried to
rebuild and were looking forRight.
The great Bordeauxs at that timewere selling for$6 a bottle.
Right.
And you are, and, and you know,they did things like, um, look
at the region of proof we say,which.
Back before World War II was alittle area around OOI and a
(05:01):
little area around f say twolittle villages in, in Burgundy,
in the Mac Hall.
And after World War ii, theysaid, oh, it's that, and, uh,
everything for like, uh, a mile,two miles in each direction, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm exaggerating it, butthey expanded the borders
because they needed the revenue.
So you have this worldwide wineglut and.
communism wasn't very good atproducing artistic things.
(05:22):
It wasn't very good atproducing, you know, fine
quality things plus, you know,quality wine.
The wine that wasn't the wine ofthe people was kind of decadent.
And unless you could sell it tothe west, there was no, there
was no home market for it.
most of that wine had been drunkin that region before World War
ii.
So.
It really, you had winetraditions disappear so did you
get any of the backstories abouthow it's reemerging
Mark (05:44):
and, and you know why it's happening now in Bulgaria?
Francis (2) (05:46):
Well, first of all, I want to say that, that one of
the things that was reallywonderful about this wine
conference, a guy I, I met namedDusan, who's really terrific, he
called, he's a Serbian guy, youknow, who hangs out with Croat
winemakers and Bulgarianwinemakers and, and he calls it
wine diplomacy.
You know, the, the people atthat table represented countries
that even very recently, Serbiaand Croatia Sure.
Have, have not exactly gottenalong post-communist.
(06:09):
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, but the wine people do.
And the wine people are buildingthe bridges and, Europe is
spending a lot of money inBulgaria and in infrastructure.
And in infrastructure.
Yeah.
And basically, uh, you're seeingsome.
World class wineries going upthere and some really talented
people who are really passionateabout the wine.
Mark (06:29):
I think most of our listeners would be surprised to
hear that there are world classwineries being built in Bulgaria
right now.
Francis (2) (06:34):
in Bulgaria and Serbia, People see that if they
can make great wine, there willbe a market for great wine.
Well, let's, let's.
Are these areas conducive togrowing great grapes?
They have thousands of years ofhistory of growing grapes.
You know, they always grew greatgrapes.
And then we had this, thistraumatic incident of World War
ii, and then communism neverallowed it to come back again.
And now we're at an area wherethere is the interest for it.
(06:56):
They are private sectoreconomies again.
And now you have the subsidiesfrom Europe in many cases, which
provide the capital.
And there is a lot of capital inin these places.
you know, they're doing twothings Oh, I'm, overreaching
here.
It's overly broad.
It seems to me that Some of themcan make good in, Western
European varietals, Cabernet,sauvignons and merlots and
syrahs.
I had a couple of syrahs fromMacedonia that were phenomenal.
(07:19):
Um, but I don't know whetherit's that their wine making
isn't right in, in many cases Ihad some very expensive
Cabernets that tasted like theywere made in an oak box, you
know, I mean, it was just an oakand no, well, you see that in
California as well, so,absolutely.
So I don't know whether it'sthat the wine making hasn't
caught up yet, or, but what Ifound was.
Even if they make a good merlotwho cares?
(07:41):
I mean, the world needs anothergood merlott from a new place.
Um, it, I didn't find them to beunique, uh, and I didn't find
them to be great.
What I found to be great werenative varieties that are
sometimes written in lic, uh,and when they translate into the
Roman alphabet, they don't haveany vowels.
So, very hard to pronounce onall consonants name.
I'm exaggerating, of course, butI went to a seminar.
(08:01):
I went to an advanced seminar onvranac which is, uh,
V-R-A-N-A-C.
Uh.
Phenomenal.
It was, it was Macedonian vranacfrom the different wine regions
of Macedonia.
Does does it have a, acomparable grape here?
No.
Is there something that No.
I, I do not think it does.
Was it
Mark (08:18):
white
Francis (2) (08:18):
or red?
It was red.
It was a red grape and it, itwas delicious and it, it really,
I got seen not only goodexamples of it, but I got the
good examples of it showingdifferent.
Senses of terroir or differentsenses of place from within
Macedonia.
It was fascinating.
I had a Serbian prokupac whichis P-R-O-K-U-P-A-C-I think.
Mark (08:40):
I'm sure that's wrong.
Francis (2) (08:41):
I think it's right actually.
I spent, I spent a little timethere, you know, and, um, it was
gorgeous.
It was gorgeous.
And, I brought four bottles backAnd if anyone wants to come and
try them, they can come and trythem.
And when they're gone, they'regone.
Are you gonna pick a day?
I'm away.
Then a try.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to therestaurant guys, restaurant guys
radio.com.
(09:02):
today we are joined from hisvineyards in Peru, uh, by,
Johnny Schuler.
Johnny is an author, chefrestaurateur, distiller
television personality downDevin Peru.
And he is also the founder andproprietor of pisco Porton,
which is, uh, something we'regonna talk about for the rest of
the segment.
Mark (09:18):
Johnny Schuler, welcome to the show.
Johnny (09:20):
Hey Francis, mark, thanks a lot.
Great to be with you guys.
Francis (2) (09:24):
So you are actually speaking to us from your
vineyards in Peru right now.
Johnny (09:28):
Right now I'm Anika about 300 kilometers south of
Lima in the vineyards of.
The oldest working distillery inAmericas.
Francis (2) (09:38):
That's just
Johnny (09:39):
beautiful place.
Francis (2) (09:39):
That is so awesome.
And if you guys wanna see avideo, check out the, out the
website video.
It's, it's pretty wild.
Johnny, why don't you start, whydon't we start off with you
telling our listeners, what ispisco
Johnny (09:50):
Well, pisco Francis is they, uh, distilled spirit, uh,
made from, uh, wine.
It's It's not, a distill spiritlike a made from palm.
It's, uh, distill spirit madefrom wine, and, uh, it's
regulated by a norm here inPeru, pretty strict.
We have only, uh, the limited,regional, geographic area where
we can grow.
These eight particular vtsbeneath it are grapes that
(10:13):
historically.
So the last 350 years have beenused only for the production of
pisco.
Uh, pisco is distilled in, uh,copper pot stills in, uh, single
distillation.
It's a product that has, uh,several singularities that make
it really, really wonderful inthe world of series.
Francis (2) (10:30):
So basically what we're gonna start from the
premise of this is a brandy.
This is a true brandy.
Johnny (10:36):
Right.
We, we, we, we don't wanna callit a brandy because we wanna be
our own category.
Right.
Want to be recognized as pco.
Right.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Basically, yes.
Okay.
Basically, in the world ofspirits, we could call it a
brandy that is un age and unwooded.
Right?
Right.
So it's, uh, it's a product thatdoes not go into oak.
(10:57):
And it's not h it's rested forin the ton is rested for about a
year, year and a half beforebeing bottled because we need
this, uh, this product to, toevolve, to mature inside, large
containers.
It, it is a brandy on h it's aclear crystal product.
It's still in Copper Pot, stilllike a brandy.
(11:17):
It's single, uh, distillation.
Uh, most brand.
It's a skill to prove that itmakes a big difference between
the rest of the spirit that Imade from grapes or from wine
like cognac or brandy, or.
that are painted by, by the oak.
Right?
Well, let's, we don't want that.
Mark (11:36):
Let's, yeah.
Johnny (11:37):
I romance,
Mark (11:38):
I wanna ask that question nearly every place in the world
that distills wine and, andeither into brandy or, pisco or
other spirits, nearly everyplace in the world ages that in,
in oak barrels.
Why do you choose to not do thatfor peace?
Scale?
Johnny (11:53):
cause, uh, again, we are made from wine.
And, uh, what we're looking foris like in a wine, when you cab,
you're looking for the, uh,original aromatic structure of
the grape.
This is what we're looking inpisco.
You have a pi made of pure CTAgrape.
(12:14):
You have a pisco made of grape,you have a piece made of, uh,
Italian grape or muscats.
And what we are looking for isthe original aromatic structure
of the grape, not changed by anexternal addition.
We don't borrow flavors fromoak.
We want our flavors from nature,from the, from the earth, from
(12:37):
the per water, like in wine,because we didn't make them
wine, you know?
So this is what we're lookingfor.
We, we put our nose into aglass, pisco, and we're
smelling.
Aromatic structure.
Each grape has a back to theflowers, fruit, spices that
different.
She creates l and wine We wantthat structure to be, remain
(12:59):
unchanged.
Francis (2) (13:00):
You know, Johnny, um, one of the things I, and I,
we have a lot of experience withpisco.
We love pisco, hit the Americanmarket.
Uh.
Currently it's been in theAmerican market for a long time
in one way or another, but hitthe American market oh, about
seven years ago, or eight yearsago, up in the northeast.
and I've enjoyed pisco cocktailsand people should know that the,
that pisco Sour is the mostpopular cocktail in Latin
America and becoming one of themost popular cocktails in
(13:21):
America.
Um.
Of all the peace skills thatI've tried and I, and there are
a few out there that I like.
Yours is the only one.
And it's funny that you talkabout maintaining the grape
variety, you know, the characterof the grape party that, that I
enjoy sipping.
And, uh, we had, we had theopportunity, you were at the
restaurant recently and we did adinner with Dale DeGraff and,
um.
You and I sipped it more than afew glasses together, not in a
(13:42):
cocktail.
And, and you know it, but it,you know, I think Porton, pisco
Porton is singular because itreally, you know, it's a white
spirit that you could, that youcan sip.
And I, and, and I, that's thefirst time I've experienced that
in a, in a pisco is thattraditional to drink that way.
And in, in Peru,
Johnny (13:59):
my argument that pisco is for friendship, pisco for
drinking pisco is forconversation.
Is a friendly drink, right?
Yeah.
It's, pisco can be used for, forcocktails Porton has been
designed with a concept ofcocktail making.
You've tried it, we've done itwith you and with Dale and we're
having a wonderful time withmixologists in the States.
(14:22):
But in case of Porton inparticular, it is a wonderful,
wonderful, wonderful, wonderfulspirit Drink on itself.
Francis (2) (14:29):
do people drink, portco in, in Peru and Chile on,
on, its on its own generally?
Or is it always made in thetaco?
Johnny (14:37):
I think, I think more in Chile is more mixed than they
either popular drink down there.
In Peru.
Yes.
Hard to listen to Drink itstraight.
To drink it meat.
Mark (14:46):
Well, well, let's talk a little bit, we, we have to bring
up, uh, the, the differenceshere between Peruvian pisco and
Chilean pisco.
I know you're, you're, you'revery proprietary about your,
Peruvian pisco and, and the namepisco.
And, and so tell us a little bitabout the differences between
Peruvian pisco and Chile andpisco.
Johnny (15:04):
I, I have to start a little bit.
if you allow me with thehistory, the Port of pisco,
which is very close to where Iam right now, was founded around
15 hundreds, late 15 hundreds,and there is where the Spanish
es shipped.
This beautiful spirit that theyfound here, that they, they,
they grew here because theybrought the grapes down.
(15:24):
You know, they're, themissionary needed the grapes for
wine making for Matt on Sundays.
Mm-hmm.
So the production was soabundant that they turned it
into a spirit.
We had to ship the spirit from aport in, it's called pisco,
which is very close to where I'mstanding that gave the name to
the product.
Now, the difference that you'reasking for one of the main
(15:45):
singularities.
Peruvian pisco needs to have isthat it is distilled to proof
and in the norm.
That means Francis and I knowyou, you guys are your
followers, are all basicallygreat experts in the world of
spirits.
Francis (2) (16:03):
but we may as well tell all the listeners what we
mean by that.
Johnny (16:06):
So the world of spirits.
Uh, most spirits are distilledto a high proof gin, vodka,
whiskey, tequila, cognac, arm,manc, uh, rum.
They're all distilled to highproof.
And how do they bring it down tobottle Proof is by addition of
water, which is a normalstandard procedure, right?
(16:26):
You know that.
We all know that.
Francis (2) (16:28):
Of course.
Johnny (16:29):
It's against the law.
It's against law in Peru.
So Peru, it has to be.
Bottle at the proof it comesfrom the still.
This is distilled to proof
Francis (2) (16:41):
and that's a much more expensive way of doing
business.
A
Johnny (16:43):
much more expensive way.
Sure.
Because I need about 18 poundsof crates for above a per pound.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Because I'm not distilling tohigh proof, I'm getting rid of
heads of tails.
I only use the heart,
Mark (16:55):
We also have to tell them what heads and tails are.
I think a lot of people who, uh,don't, don't, don't know
distillation as well as wemight, might not know what heads
and tails are
Johnny (17:04):
I have to make a wine grant.
I have to ferment my grape thatcrisp my grapes.
I ferment them with natural wildyeast.
You do not use artificial yeast.
Use natural wild yeast.
We ferment.
Permutation finishes.
It is a raw, fresh wine, right?
It's not a finished wine, but itis the wine because the mu, the
juice has no alcohol.
(17:24):
You can't distill something, hasno alcohol.
So the yeast has transformed thesugar into potential alcohol.
The wine is a fresh wine.
You take this into a copper potskill.
You fired up the first vapor.
The first steams that come outare the heads, the vape carry a
lot of aromas.
Are very light alcohols that youdon't want in your finished
(17:46):
product because it will changeor will uh, uh, affect the
aromatic structure once you havea few liters of that skin
condensed.
Then you, you by the nose, youput, you smell it, and you found
that these aromas are gone.
Then the heart begins to throw,you separate the heart into
another container.
(18:08):
As distillation begins to end,you're gonna begin to lift the
heavy alcohols, which havearomas like, uh, nail polish
remover and things like that,that are not nice anymore.
Then you cut again and thetails.
And you only keep the heart Somy whole process, I only use
about half
Francis (2) (18:29):
when you make a wine, you, you add yeast to, uh,
a grape juice, which has sugarin it, and if it eats all of
that sugar, if the yeastconverts all of that sugar into
alcohol, you have a dry wine.
If you stop the fer, you have adry wine.
If you stop the fermentationprocess before that's done, you
have a slightly sweet wine'causeyou, you've stopped the, the
yeast before.
It's eaten all the sugar.
And so that makes for a reallyunique, sweeter wine.
(18:50):
You'll find that in a lot ofGerman wines that have a touch
of sweetness to them.
And um, so obviously that'sanother step to make, to make
your, your spirit other, most ofeverything.
Johnny (19:00):
You're absolutely right.
And that sweet wine is the onewe take to the still.
Silver that was strut out fromthe Peruvian end is un melted in
Dan Marie and er a crystal glassfor enjoyment.
The light is absolutelybeautiful.
Yeah, and then what it gives isthat sugar.
That has been in the wine doesnot go through the still because
(19:20):
sugar doesn't evaporate whatevaporates or alcohols.
But those alcohols are rounder,are more complex, are more
interesting.
They've picked up all theerratic structure from the grape
and they carried it into thefinal product.
And then at the mouth, the feelhow it explodes in your mouth
when you swallow it, It's sosmooth.
(19:41):
It doesn't burn your throat.
It's absolutely a gentleman's.
Drink.
Drink.
Mark (19:46):
So I interrupted you while you were telling us about the
differences between Chileanpisco and Peruvian pisco.
If you want to, if you want,finish that thought.
Johnny (19:54):
and I'm looking at the, at, at the end of my vineyard
here.
It's a desert.
The sand dunes, nothing grows.
Absolutely.
Were irrigated by trickles ofglaciers that milk from the
Andes and come down this way.
Otherwise, the whole coastalperus a desert.
Now this.
Generates generate a lot of heatduring the day and a lot of cold
(20:15):
during the night.
Perfect for grapes, lwa.
Right?
Right.
Which we all know that that's aperfect condition for grape, but
that heat during the dayevaporates water and
concentrates sugar.
This doesn't happen in Chile.
Chile in their first escalationof, they go through the steel,
their product like Cognac thathas to do that two step Chile
(20:36):
product.
Comes out at 23 or 2040 piece ofalcohol.
Not enough for bottled proof.
So what do they do?
They need to take the heads andthe tails.
They put'em in the rectifyingcolumn.
They turn it into pure alcohol,wine, alcohol, share enough.
And then they add this to theirpisco, which lifts the alcoholic
(20:59):
volume degree value to about 76or 78 degrees.
And then they have to add water.
To bring it to the 33 or 35proof.
33 or 35% alcohol.
They sell, they sell a pisco on70 degrees of alcohol.
Right.
70 proof.
Right.
So their product is about onethird Real pisco and third's
(21:20):
water.
Wow.
Yeah.
According is about one half, uh,you could say Peace, PECO and
one have water.
Mm-hmm.
Peruvians, we cannot use water.
This is a very, very, veryimportant element, Francis.
This is something everybody hasto know.
We are absolutely by law, bynorm, distill to proof.
Francis (2) (21:41):
You know, I, I think that is fascinating and
the differences between, I'mattending a seminar down, it
tells the cocktail where we'reboth going to be in a, in a, a
short period of time, uh, in NewOrleans.
I mean, on a, a differencebetween.
Peruvian and Chile and piscothat I, I, you know, I think is
fascinating and, and it, youknow, it's an emerging,
ingredient.
If you're a bartender and you'relistening or if you're making
drinks at home, you've got tohave pisco behind your bar.
(22:04):
And, and it takes a littleknowing about, because it's not
in our cultural lexicon rightnow, but pisco was available in
the United States beforeProhibition, wasn't it, Johnny?
Johnny (22:13):
It wasn't.
Sure.
It was, it was.
We drink in the title of SanFrancpisco.
The time of the 49 years, you'vegot to, you have to read the
book by, uh, this book that'scalled, uh, Marbury Coast, that
was written by Herbert Asbury.
It talks about the cosmopolitanlife of San Francpisco in the
1860s and seventies, and hetalks about the most popular war
in San Francpisco.
(22:34):
The best appointed bar in SanFrancpisco was the bank
exchange, and the most popularthing in the bank exchange was
pisco Punch
Francis (2) (22:41):
pisco punch
Johnny (22:44):
and he calls it the most expensive drinking.
So at the time it cost aquarter.
(24:35):
Right.
That's great.
Nobody told the secret how it'sprepared, but it was, I know it
was, the testimonies are there,the lightings, the historian,
everything is there, and pisco,and he described the secret, the
preparation, the fiscal punchwas fico, a brandy made from.
From the photo from WorldWarship and he takes the name
from there.
(24:55):
The testimonies are there.
Francis (2) (24:56):
You know, it's funny, I remember reading about
that bar and one of the thingsthe proprietor of that bar used
to do is he would take his piscopunch recipe and he would go in
the back and lock the door andhe would, or he'd mix it all up,
and so not even his bartendersknew what was in his particular
piece.
Go punch.
Wild stuff.
Hey, listen Johnny, we need totake a quick break, but I wanna
come back on the other side andtalk a little bit more about
(25:16):
Peru and Chili.
Johnny (25:17):
Sure thing.
Francis (2) (25:18):
Alright, we'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant
guys@restaurantguysradio.com.
Hey there everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys.
We're talking with JohnnySchuler.
He is the proprietor of pisco,Porton and television
personality, and probably theworld's number one ambassador
for Peruvian pisco.
So Johnny, I, I was first drawnto your product from, some stuff
(25:40):
you sent me by email and in themail, uh, about the distillery
that you built, down at one ofthe oldest distillery sites in
America.
In, in the Americas, we, we haveone of the most modern
distilleries in America.
Can you tell us about what youdid down there?
Johnny (25:56):
It's very, very interesting because, uh, when,
when the project is actuallyformed by my partner, bill
Calip, who's a p billionaire,who had sold this ventures here
in Peru and decided he wanted tosay something for the country.
And decided that this was gonnabe a very interesting venture
and he approached D with theoffer, Hey Johnny, you are the
pisco expert in Per, why don'twe join forces and let's go for
(26:19):
it.
And said, Hey, that's awonderful idea.
Great, so let's go.
Visited most of all the, wellthey ask, and I visited all for
my books and my TV program.
when, uh, Bill says, okay, let'sgo, let's, let's turn forces.
I have, I put, I'll be the moneyman.
End the project.
You are the one who knows how todo the product.
Let's the first thing I did nextday, Francis.
(26:41):
What to come down and talk to myfriend Julio Presque.
Paleo who owns this beautiful,beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,
I mean sensual, sexy, beautiful,beautiful distillery that dated
from 1684, and I had seen thedocuments of the purchase of the
property, and that made it theoldest working distillery in all
(27:06):
of the Americas.
Francis (2) (27:07):
That's
Johnny (27:07):
awesome because we needed a real story for our
product.
We don't want it.
We didn't want a Mickey Mouse.
Makeup story to tell, Hey, weare here.
We're not a new vodka.
We're not a new ram.
We're not a new gin.
We've been here, pisco has beenhere for 350 years.
Mm-hmm.
And this distillery has beendoing it right?
(27:27):
Yep.
So buying that, we bought acouple of vineyards adjacent to
the property.
We own four vineyards now, andthen we built in it next to it,
face to face.
You have to connect here.
It's absolutely fascinating.
In front.
The most modern.
But what did I do?
I used the philosophy of the1684 distillery to build a new
(27:50):
one.
Everything in 1684 went done bygravity.
There was no electricity, therewere no pumps.
And that's why the pisco was so,so, so wonderful.
Right?
Right.
And I said, I have to replicatethat.
So I told my architects when wewere signing this, okay, my
fermenters have to go.
(28:10):
14 meters, 30 some feet up inthe air to be able to have the
heights we needed to be able tobring all the flow again by
gravity.
Right.
Wow.
So the whole brand newdistillery replicates the
philosophy of the old one.
I call it signal artisanal.
Francis (2) (28:33):
We
Johnny (28:33):
have, yeah.
We're using.
The best of technology.
We have computers.
We have, uh, our tanks, ourstainless steel tanks, our
jacketed for cold weather, to beable to keep the cold.
So we don't have a, a hightemperature during fermentation
and we don't lose IC structuresand everything is state of the
art.
(28:53):
But then the hand of the man, westill keep our pisco.
It all, all concrete.
Glass-lined tanks.
We still hand harvest all ourgrapes.
We still hand select everything.
Everything is a combination oftechnology and the element of
(29:13):
artisan, the love, the man, thehand-crafted beauty of pisco.
Francis (2) (29:19):
So when did you build the new distillery?
When was that completed?
Johnny (29:24):
The new distillery is, Steve is now under operation.
So the product you have today isthe 2010 in the market,
yesterday morning, I've beentasting with my people within
designing the.
Blend for the 2011 bottlingbecause as you know, they have
another argument here that Imight drive you guys crazy on
(29:45):
your listeners.
Also, as is made from wine, MarkFrancis, my argument is wine
changes every year, and that'swhy we put dates on the bottle
of wine and pisco is made fromwine.
pisco has to change every year.
Francis (2) (30:00):
I think that's amazing.
I think that your commitment tothat
Mark (30:03):
is amazing.
Francis (2) (30:03):
I
Mark (30:03):
mean, almost every other spirit I know they, they want
consistency, but what else Momost important is consistency.
And you know, and I, and I hadthis conversation with somebody
just the other day, I, I preferquality to consistency somehow,
somehow in the McDonaldizationof America.
Agree.
We've decided that it was betterthat it be the same all the time
(30:25):
than it be great all the time.
Johnny (30:27):
Thank you.
Thank you, I am against that.
I don't want to be a productthat is exactly the same for the
next 30 years.
I would be bored to death.
I would have nothing else to do.
My job as a distiller, masterdistiller would be finished.
Huh?
I have beautiful grapes everyyear and they change, and
because I had more sun, left,sun, more water, less water.
(30:49):
More cold, less cold, but drinkchanges.
Francis (2) (30:52):
Will you date the pisco bottles?
Yes.
Always.
Johnny (30:54):
As a matter of fact, when you, when you see it a, a
little secret code, because forsome reason we can't date it in
the States uhhuh, but, uh, we'reworking a little code in there
so that, that we can, we canmore or less identify the, the
dates.
Francis (2) (31:06):
I think that's, I think that's tremendous.
so now the other thing that'sreally interesting, I gotta be
honest with you, Johnny, youhave a.
You, you have a pretty forcefulpersonality, uh, and the way
that you came into the Americanmarket, uh, sort of reflects
your forceful personality.
I'd never heard of pisco Porton,and I think I knew just about
every pisco on the market.
You know, you didn't exist untila couple years ago and you guys
(31:28):
came to us early on and, youwanted to get into our place for
New Jersey, and I think that'sgreat and we, we have, we carry
your product, but.
When I brought in Fpisco, Ithink I was the one of the first
guys around, or first guys Iknew of to carry it.
And now I really see iteverywhere you have, at least in
the northeast.
You know, you guys have really,how did you take such a huge
(31:50):
piece of the market?
So I believe infiltrated as you.
Yeah.
My god.
Johnny (31:53):
You're everywhere.
Well, fortunately, uh, we have,um.
Well, fortunately we do have theresources he behind the product,
right?
Uhhuh, which is very important.
We have the resources and wehave the commitment.
Phil Calip is a man in love withthe project, so he has, allowed
a very substantial amount of monfor us to be able to pull this
(32:16):
through.
We are now in 24 states, and welaunched only in March last
year.
Francis (2) (32:22):
Yeah,
Johnny (32:23):
right.
Francis (2) (32:23):
That's right.
The other thing about you, theway that you guys have marketed
is Yeah, I, I seeadvertisements, and I see you
sponsoring a lot of professionaland trade events, but I, I also,
I think that if the productweren't there, I think what
you're doing gotta be in thebottle.
Yeah.
I mean, if the product weren'tthere, you wouldn't have, you
know, people order one bottlebecause of some deal, uh, but
they don't keep it on their backbar, you know?
(32:44):
And, and, uh, it's, I think it'sa testament to the product.
That's amazing how quicklyyou've done it.
Johnny (32:49):
thanks.
Thanks.
Thanks to you guys.
I mean, thanks to you guys and alot of people that have really
enjoyed and enjoyed the productand have tried it that liked it.
But then again, we must be oneof the spirits that have been
awarded the most amount ofmedals Last year.
We've got 22 medals last year,gold medals all over in Spain,
in Canada, the state in SanFrancpisco, in New York, in
(33:09):
Belgium, everywhere.
So the product is good.
And then we picked medal uphere, down, down, down in, down
in, in the regional in and eatguy in nascar.
Which for me are more importantbecause I'm competing against my
peers down here.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Francis (2) (33:22):
Well, I'll tell you one of these days you're gonna
hear an on-location broadcastfrom, uh, your distillery.
'cause it sounds like a hey of alot of fun
Johnny (33:29):
you guys.
No, you have to come and seewhat we've done here.
You would have so much fun.
We would really, you wouldreally enjoy it because it is
really a beautiful.
Mark, Francis.
It is a dream.
You have to see the vineyards,our commitment with nature, You
know, the stillage is thewastage, right?
Wine.
Once we've evaporated thealcohol, right?
Normally that here in Peru, allthe distilleries throw into the
(33:53):
ditches.
We brought almost a milliondollar investment, a plant from,
from, from Holland that turnsthis back into water for
irrigation.
Mark (34:02):
Wow.
That's terrific.
Johnny (34:03):
So, so our commitment with nature is total our
commitment with our socialcommitment, with the people that
live around us.
We employ everybody the closestwe can to the, to the
distillery, into the vineyards.
We have probably about 120people.
We're not a small, smallventure.
We're a very, very serious.
Very serious operation downhere, but we have a total
(34:24):
commitment.
I'm going, you guys are gonnathink this is crazy, huh?
Listen to this.
They call me Ggo Local downhere.
You know the crazy ggo, well,I've got a funny name, John.
It's not a very typical name forour, for our local, right?
Right.
And, uh, I deal, I built somehuge steel canals on top of my
fermenting Cs, and everybodysays, why did you put that
(34:47):
stretcher up there?
That must weigh up.
Tons and tons here.
It wastes tons and it costs alot of money, but that is a
system that has trip irrigationand a good vegetation up there.
Mark (34:58):
Oh, you have a green roof.
Johnny (35:00):
Crazy.
so it's in the angle of each slon the roof.
There's this line of vegetation.
Why?
Because plants will take a CO2from my fermentation process and
change it back into oxygen.
Now, I don't know if it's gonnawork or not, but I thought it
was a wonderful idea.
Francis (2) (35:16):
Hey, and it sounds like a lot of fun.
Listen, Johnny, sooner or lateryou'll be seeing us down in
Peru.
Thanks for coming on the show,Johnny.
Johnny (35:23):
Oh, my pleasure.
Thank you guys for having onboard Shalu Porton, and enjoy
it.
Francis (2) (35:28):
Salu Johnny.
Johnny, Schuler is the founderand president of, uh, pisco
Porton in Peru.
You can find out more about himat our website, restaurant guys
radio.com.
Stick with us.
We'll be back in just a moment.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys.
(36:18):
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis.
you know, we have a sort of a nocell phone rule on the show, but
we had to break it because hewas actually in the vineyard.
You
Mark (36:27):
know, that we had
Francis (2) (36:27):
a,
Mark (36:27):
we had a, so it might not have been the easiest show to
listen to, but, uh, he is, youknow, Johnny's the most
interesting man in the world.
He is, by the way.
Francis (2) (36:35):
The hell.
You know, it's funny, I don'tknow if you could tell from his
voice, but I bet there are a lotof women that just fell in love
with him by listening to this.
he's, he's a great guy and he's,he's part race, car driver race,
you
Mark (36:45):
know, he, he's got all the, all the characteristics.
Francis (2) (36:47):
He came and did an event, he sponsored our Dale
Degra event at the restaurantwhere, where Dale, you know, he
sponsored Dale actually.
He came and, and, uh, did on thetown, which was his, uh, song
and dance thing at, well, nodancing.
Dale did a song and dance.
No, no.
And uh, but he was great.
(37:07):
I mean, I think that people wereas charmed by him as they were
by Dale.
And, uh, and the product isgreat and you know, it's a
category that I didn't knowabout until seven years ago, you
know?
Mark (37:16):
Yeah.
It was, it, it's, it's obviouslybasically, I don't wanna say new
to the East coast'cause we'vehad it for 150 years, but, uh,
but it's 300 years down there.
Right.
But, but basically it was aforgotten spirit.
That has reemerged.
Yeah.
It's changed from, this kind ofafterthought spirit to now it's
gotta be on your back bar.
Oh.
Francis (2) (37:36):
And you know, I, I had not sipped, the porton I had
not just didn't occurred to methat porton via sipping
cocktail.
And I sat with Johnny for aboutan hour.
And we
Mark (37:46):
sipped'em.
Well, I remember when we firstbrought pisco Porton in and we
put it into our cocktails and wesaid, Hey, that's not great.
And, and it was more because itwas more intense than the other
piscos it was throwing ourrecipes on.
Right.
We had a rejigger of the recipe.
So we had a, we had to changeeverything that we wanted to use
pisco porton in.
We had to change the recipebecause it just, it, the pisco
(38:08):
porton was actually a little bittoo intense for most of
Francis (2) (38:10):
our, yeah.
Wild stuff.
Most of
Mark (38:11):
our
Francis (2) (38:11):
Peace
Mark (38:11):
cup
Francis (2) (38:12):
wild stuff.
Um, but.
I, I am go, I'm going to Peru.
Okay.
Going, because you know what,you can go down and you can,
visit his vineyards, you can,you can go right across to
Mendoza Valley.
So I'm, I'm gonna make that atrip.
Yeah.
He'll do
Mark (38:23):
a little, do a little, uh, south American.
Francis (2) (38:26):
It's a cool thing.
What they're doing down there iscool, and how they resurrected
an old tradition is what wereally like, which is probably
why we had'em on the show.
I hope you guys have enjoyedthis hour as much as we
certainly have.
I'm Francis Shock.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurantguys@restaurantguysradio.com.
Hello, mark.
Morning Francis.
Uh, how are you this morning?
I'm terrific.
This is my first show back sincehaving visited the, Balkans.
I was actually out at theBalkans International Wine
Competition.
Crazy, huh?
Mark (02:11):
Well, I would say interesting, but I don't know.
Francis (2) (02:16):
No, really It was, it was crazy.
It was held in, uh, Sophia,Bulgaria.
Mark (02:22):
So what, wines were there?
What, wine producing countrieswere, were in?
Bulgaria, Serbia,
Francis (2) (02:27):
Bulgaria, Greece was there because that's on the
Balkan Peninsula.
Okay.
Mark (02:30):
Now we talked about Greek wines on the, on the show
before, and yeah, I think, uh,they, they reemerged first from
this area.
Francis (2) (02:36):
I mean, people don't often think of Greece as a
Balkan country and Greece was,uh, you know, Greek wines in
this country are, are reallyhave a foothold that's been
building for years.
And the other Balkan winesdon't.
You
Mark (02:49):
don't see a lot of Bulgarian wine out there, but
we, and I, and I haven't triedany wines from those, from those
other places yet, but I havetried the Greek wines and
they're very interesting andvery good, and are very, and
getting better, all sunny andgetting better.
Every vintage
Francis (2) (03:00):
now in the Balkan countries, the Balkan comp
countries that I tasted a lot ofwines from were Macedonia.
Uh, Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria,that's where most of my tasting
mm-hmm.
Uh, was, sort of, was centered.
Mark (03:12):
And did you have experience with those types of
wines before?
This?
Francis (2) (03:15):
Not, not a one.
Literally never had a Bulgarianwine before.
I was in Bulgaria.
Never had a Serbian wine beforeI was in Bulgaria.
And, um, this was a competition.
the panel of judges wasdistinguished wine,
professionals from all aroundthe world.
I was not a judge.
I was there as a participant.
which is not to say I'm notdistinguished'cause, you know,
I've got gray hair.
Um, but I, I really found awhole new thing.
(03:38):
And what's interesting is thisis an emerging wine region and.
But it's also a historical wineregion and you know that the For
Yoli is out there, need to know.
That's what Mark and I love tofind, is people who are, are
resurrecting traditiontraditions that were lost, you
know?
And I think that comes fromgrowing up with bakery bread in
some time.
When I was six, my motherswitched to wonder and now I'm
(03:59):
back in, you know, I'm like, whydid you do that?
Mark (04:01):
Yeah.
When did a hotdog roll become ahotdog roll?
Yeah.
That's, that's kind of thetheory.
Francis (2) (04:07):
Well, and, and here's what happened in many of
the Balkan countries, I mean,world War II dealt a serious
blow to, um, wine production inthe Balkans and in Eastern
Europe in general in, inHungary, and Slovakia as well.
Then after the war, communismwas no great friend of high
quality wine.
I mean, that, that goes forHungary, that goes for Slovakia.
Mark (04:28):
Sure.
You know, any of, any of thosecountries that were behind the
Iron Curtain, if profit was notthe motivation.
Well, there's, it's a lot morework to make great wine.
Right.
And also,
Francis (2) (04:38):
you know, you had, let's remember after World War
ii, there was a glut in wine.
So you had a, a worldwide glutand not very much demand.
So you had problems in Bordeauxand Burgundy as they tried to
rebuild and were looking forRight.
The great Bordeauxs at that timewere selling for$6 a bottle.
Right.
And you are, and, and you know,they did things like, um, look
at the region of proof we say,which.
Back before World War II was alittle area around OOI and a
(05:01):
little area around f say twolittle villages in, in Burgundy,
in the Mac Hall.
And after World War ii, theysaid, oh, it's that, and, uh,
everything for like, uh, a mile,two miles in each direction, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm exaggerating it, butthey expanded the borders
because they needed the revenue.
So you have this worldwide wineglut and.
communism wasn't very good atproducing artistic things.
(05:22):
It wasn't very good atproducing, you know, fine
quality things plus, you know,quality wine.
The wine that wasn't the wine ofthe people was kind of decadent.
And unless you could sell it tothe west, there was no, there
was no home market for it.
most of that wine had been drunkin that region before World War
ii.
So.
It really, you had winetraditions disappear so did you
get any of the backstories abouthow it's reemerging
Mark (05:44):
and, and you know why it's happening now in Bulgaria?
Francis (2) (05:46):
Well, first of all, I want to say that, that one of
the things that was reallywonderful about this wine
conference, a guy I, I met namedDusan, who's really terrific, he
called, he's a Serbian guy, youknow, who hangs out with Croat
winemakers and Bulgarianwinemakers and, and he calls it
wine diplomacy.
You know, the, the people atthat table represented countries
that even very recently, Serbiaand Croatia Sure.
Have, have not exactly gottenalong post-communist.
(06:09):
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, but the wine people do.
And the wine people are buildingthe bridges and, Europe is
spending a lot of money inBulgaria and in infrastructure.
And in infrastructure.
Yeah.
And basically, uh, you're seeingsome.
World class wineries going upthere and some really talented
people who are really passionateabout the wine.
Mark (06:29):
I think most of our listeners would be surprised to
hear that there are world classwineries being built in Bulgaria
right now.
Francis (2) (06:34):
in Bulgaria and Serbia, People see that if they
can make great wine, there willbe a market for great wine.
Well, let's, let's.
Are these areas conducive togrowing great grapes?
They have thousands of years ofhistory of growing grapes.
You know, they always grew greatgrapes.
And then we had this, thistraumatic incident of World War
ii, and then communism neverallowed it to come back again.
And now we're at an area wherethere is the interest for it.
(06:56):
They are private sectoreconomies again.
And now you have the subsidiesfrom Europe in many cases, which
provide the capital.
And there is a lot of capital inin these places.
you know, they're doing twothings Oh, I'm, overreaching
here.
It's overly broad.
It seems to me that Some of themcan make good in, Western
European varietals, Cabernet,sauvignons and merlots and
syrahs.
I had a couple of syrahs fromMacedonia that were phenomenal.
(07:19):
Um, but I don't know whetherit's that their wine making
isn't right in, in many cases Ihad some very expensive
Cabernets that tasted like theywere made in an oak box, you
know, I mean, it was just an oakand no, well, you see that in
California as well, so,absolutely.
So I don't know whether it'sthat the wine making hasn't
caught up yet, or, but what Ifound was.
Even if they make a good merlotwho cares?
(07:41):
I mean, the world needs anothergood merlott from a new place.
Um, it, I didn't find them to beunique, uh, and I didn't find
them to be great.
What I found to be great werenative varieties that are
sometimes written in lic, uh,and when they translate into the
Roman alphabet, they don't haveany vowels.
So, very hard to pronounce onall consonants name.
I'm exaggerating, of course, butI went to a seminar.
(08:01):
I went to an advanced seminar onvranac which is, uh,
V-R-A-N-A-C.
Uh.
Phenomenal.
It was, it was Macedonian vranacfrom the different wine regions
of Macedonia.
Does does it have a, acomparable grape here?
No.
Is there something that No.
I, I do not think it does.
Was it
Mark (08:18):
white
Francis (2) (08:18):
or red?
It was red.
It was a red grape and it, itwas delicious and it, it really,
I got seen not only goodexamples of it, but I got the
good examples of it showingdifferent.
Senses of terroir or differentsenses of place from within
Macedonia.
It was fascinating.
I had a Serbian prokupac whichis P-R-O-K-U-P-A-C-I think.
Mark (08:40):
I'm sure that's wrong.
Francis (2) (08:41):
I think it's right actually.
I spent, I spent a little timethere, you know, and, um, it was
gorgeous.
It was gorgeous.
And, I brought four bottles backAnd if anyone wants to come and
try them, they can come and trythem.
And when they're gone, they'regone.
Are you gonna pick a day?
I'm away.
Then a try.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to therestaurant guys, restaurant guys
radio.com.
(09:02):
today we are joined from hisvineyards in Peru, uh, by,
Johnny Schuler.
Johnny is an author, chefrestaurateur, distiller
television personality downDevin Peru.
And he is also the founder andproprietor of pisco Porton,
which is, uh, something we'regonna talk about for the rest of
the segment.
Mark (09:18):
Johnny Schuler, welcome to the show.
Johnny (09:20):
Hey Francis, mark, thanks a lot.
Great to be with you guys.
Francis (2) (09:24):
So you are actually speaking to us from your
vineyards in Peru right now.
Johnny (09:28):
Right now I'm Anika about 300 kilometers south of
Lima in the vineyards of.
The oldest working distillery inAmericas.
Francis (2) (09:38):
That's just
Johnny (09:39):
beautiful place.
Francis (2) (09:39):
That is so awesome.
And if you guys wanna see avideo, check out the, out the
website video.
It's, it's pretty wild.
Johnny, why don't you start, whydon't we start off with you
telling our listeners, what ispisco
Johnny (09:50):
Well, pisco Francis is they, uh, distilled spirit, uh,
made from, uh, wine.
It's It's not, a distill spiritlike a made from palm.
It's, uh, distill spirit madefrom wine, and, uh, it's
regulated by a norm here inPeru, pretty strict.
We have only, uh, the limited,regional, geographic area where
we can grow.
These eight particular vtsbeneath it are grapes that
(10:13):
historically.
So the last 350 years have beenused only for the production of
pisco.
Uh, pisco is distilled in, uh,copper pot stills in, uh, single
distillation.
It's a product that has, uh,several singularities that make
it really, really wonderful inthe world of series.
Francis (2) (10:30):
So basically what we're gonna start from the
premise of this is a brandy.
This is a true brandy.
Johnny (10:36):
Right.
We, we, we, we don't wanna callit a brandy because we wanna be
our own category.
Right.
Want to be recognized as pco.
Right.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Basically, yes.
Okay.
Basically, in the world ofspirits, we could call it a
brandy that is un age and unwooded.
Right?
Right.
So it's, uh, it's a product thatdoes not go into oak.
(10:57):
And it's not h it's rested forin the ton is rested for about a
year, year and a half beforebeing bottled because we need
this, uh, this product to, toevolve, to mature inside, large
containers.
It, it is a brandy on h it's aclear crystal product.
It's still in Copper Pot, stilllike a brandy.
(11:17):
It's single, uh, distillation.
Uh, most brand.
It's a skill to prove that itmakes a big difference between
the rest of the spirit that Imade from grapes or from wine
like cognac or brandy, or.
that are painted by, by the oak.
Right?
Well, let's, we don't want that.
Mark (11:36):
Let's, yeah.
Johnny (11:37):
I romance,
Mark (11:38):
I wanna ask that question nearly every place in the world
that distills wine and, andeither into brandy or, pisco or
other spirits, nearly everyplace in the world ages that in,
in oak barrels.
Why do you choose to not do thatfor peace?
Scale?
Johnny (11:53):
cause, uh, again, we are made from wine.
And, uh, what we're looking foris like in a wine, when you cab,
you're looking for the, uh,original aromatic structure of
the grape.
This is what we're looking inpisco.
You have a pi made of pure CTAgrape.
(12:14):
You have a pisco made of grape,you have a piece made of, uh,
Italian grape or muscats.
And what we are looking for isthe original aromatic structure
of the grape, not changed by anexternal addition.
We don't borrow flavors fromoak.
We want our flavors from nature,from the, from the earth, from
(12:37):
the per water, like in wine,because we didn't make them
wine, you know?
So this is what we're lookingfor.
We, we put our nose into aglass, pisco, and we're
smelling.
Aromatic structure.
Each grape has a back to theflowers, fruit, spices that
different.
She creates l and wine We wantthat structure to be, remain
(12:59):
unchanged.
Francis (2) (13:00):
You know, Johnny, um, one of the things I, and I,
we have a lot of experience withpisco.
We love pisco, hit the Americanmarket.
Uh.
Currently it's been in theAmerican market for a long time
in one way or another, but hitthe American market oh, about
seven years ago, or eight yearsago, up in the northeast.
and I've enjoyed pisco cocktailsand people should know that the,
that pisco Sour is the mostpopular cocktail in Latin
America and becoming one of themost popular cocktails in
(13:21):
America.
Um.
Of all the peace skills thatI've tried and I, and there are
a few out there that I like.
Yours is the only one.
And it's funny that you talkabout maintaining the grape
variety, you know, the characterof the grape party that, that I
enjoy sipping.
And, uh, we had, we had theopportunity, you were at the
restaurant recently and we did adinner with Dale DeGraff and,
um.
You and I sipped it more than afew glasses together, not in a
(13:42):
cocktail.
And, and you know it, but it,you know, I think Porton, pisco
Porton is singular because itreally, you know, it's a white
spirit that you could, that youcan sip.
And I, and, and I, that's thefirst time I've experienced that
in a, in a pisco is thattraditional to drink that way.
And in, in Peru,
Johnny (13:59):
my argument that pisco is for friendship, pisco for
drinking pisco is forconversation.
Is a friendly drink, right?
Yeah.
It's, pisco can be used for, forcocktails Porton has been
designed with a concept ofcocktail making.
You've tried it, we've done itwith you and with Dale and we're
having a wonderful time withmixologists in the States.
(14:22):
But in case of Porton inparticular, it is a wonderful,
wonderful, wonderful, wonderfulspirit Drink on itself.
Francis (2) (14:29):
do people drink, portco in, in Peru and Chile on,
on, its on its own generally?
Or is it always made in thetaco?
Johnny (14:37):
I think, I think more in Chile is more mixed than they
either popular drink down there.
In Peru.
Yes.
Hard to listen to Drink itstraight.
To drink it meat.
Mark (14:46):
Well, well, let's talk a little bit, we, we have to bring
up, uh, the, the differenceshere between Peruvian pisco and
Chilean pisco.
I know you're, you're, you'revery proprietary about your,
Peruvian pisco and, and the namepisco.
And, and so tell us a little bitabout the differences between
Peruvian pisco and Chile andpisco.
Johnny (15:04):
I, I have to start a little bit.
if you allow me with thehistory, the Port of pisco,
which is very close to where Iam right now, was founded around
15 hundreds, late 15 hundreds,and there is where the Spanish
es shipped.
This beautiful spirit that theyfound here, that they, they,
they grew here because theybrought the grapes down.
(15:24):
You know, they're, themissionary needed the grapes for
wine making for Matt on Sundays.
Mm-hmm.
So the production was soabundant that they turned it
into a spirit.
We had to ship the spirit from aport in, it's called pisco,
which is very close to where I'mstanding that gave the name to
the product.
Now, the difference that you'reasking for one of the main
(15:45):
singularities.
Peruvian pisco needs to have isthat it is distilled to proof
and in the norm.
That means Francis and I knowyou, you guys are your
followers, are all basicallygreat experts in the world of
spirits.
Francis (2) (16:03):
but we may as well tell all the listeners what we
mean by that.
Johnny (16:06):
So the world of spirits.
Uh, most spirits are distilledto a high proof gin, vodka,
whiskey, tequila, cognac, arm,manc, uh, rum.
They're all distilled to highproof.
And how do they bring it down tobottle Proof is by addition of
water, which is a normalstandard procedure, right?
(16:26):
You know that.
We all know that.
Francis (2) (16:28):
Of course.
Johnny (16:29):
It's against the law.
It's against law in Peru.
So Peru, it has to be.
Bottle at the proof it comesfrom the still.
This is distilled to proof
Francis (2) (16:41):
and that's a much more expensive way of doing
business.
A
Johnny (16:43):
much more expensive way.
Sure.
Because I need about 18 poundsof crates for above a per pound.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Because I'm not distilling tohigh proof, I'm getting rid of
heads of tails.
I only use the heart,
Mark (16:55):
We also have to tell them what heads and tails are.
I think a lot of people who, uh,don't, don't, don't know
distillation as well as wemight, might not know what heads
and tails are
Johnny (17:04):
I have to make a wine grant.
I have to ferment my grape thatcrisp my grapes.
I ferment them with natural wildyeast.
You do not use artificial yeast.
Use natural wild yeast.
We ferment.
Permutation finishes.
It is a raw, fresh wine, right?
It's not a finished wine, but itis the wine because the mu, the
juice has no alcohol.
(17:24):
You can't distill something, hasno alcohol.
So the yeast has transformed thesugar into potential alcohol.
The wine is a fresh wine.
You take this into a copper potskill.
You fired up the first vapor.
The first steams that come outare the heads, the vape carry a
lot of aromas.
Are very light alcohols that youdon't want in your finished
(17:46):
product because it will changeor will uh, uh, affect the
aromatic structure once you havea few liters of that skin
condensed.
Then you, you by the nose, youput, you smell it, and you found
that these aromas are gone.
Then the heart begins to throw,you separate the heart into
another container.
(18:08):
As distillation begins to end,you're gonna begin to lift the
heavy alcohols, which havearomas like, uh, nail polish
remover and things like that,that are not nice anymore.
Then you cut again and thetails.
And you only keep the heart Somy whole process, I only use
about half
Francis (2) (18:29):
when you make a wine, you, you add yeast to, uh,
a grape juice, which has sugarin it, and if it eats all of
that sugar, if the yeastconverts all of that sugar into
alcohol, you have a dry wine.
If you stop the fer, you have adry wine.
If you stop the fermentationprocess before that's done, you
have a slightly sweet wine'causeyou, you've stopped the, the
yeast before.
It's eaten all the sugar.
And so that makes for a reallyunique, sweeter wine.
(18:50):
You'll find that in a lot ofGerman wines that have a touch
of sweetness to them.
And um, so obviously that'sanother step to make, to make
your, your spirit other, most ofeverything.
Johnny (19:00):
You're absolutely right.
And that sweet wine is the onewe take to the still.
Silver that was strut out fromthe Peruvian end is un melted in
Dan Marie and er a crystal glassfor enjoyment.
The light is absolutelybeautiful.
Yeah, and then what it gives isthat sugar.
That has been in the wine doesnot go through the still because
(19:20):
sugar doesn't evaporate whatevaporates or alcohols.
But those alcohols are rounder,are more complex, are more
interesting.
They've picked up all theerratic structure from the grape
and they carried it into thefinal product.
And then at the mouth, the feelhow it explodes in your mouth
when you swallow it, It's sosmooth.
(19:41):
It doesn't burn your throat.
It's absolutely a gentleman's.
Drink.
Drink.
Mark (19:46):
So I interrupted you while you were telling us about the
differences between Chileanpisco and Peruvian pisco.
If you want to, if you want,finish that thought.
Johnny (19:54):
and I'm looking at the, at, at the end of my vineyard
here.
It's a desert.
The sand dunes, nothing grows.
Absolutely.
Were irrigated by trickles ofglaciers that milk from the
Andes and come down this way.
Otherwise, the whole coastalperus a desert.
Now this.
Generates generate a lot of heatduring the day and a lot of cold
(20:15):
during the night.
Perfect for grapes, lwa.
Right?
Right.
Which we all know that that's aperfect condition for grape, but
that heat during the dayevaporates water and
concentrates sugar.
This doesn't happen in Chile.
Chile in their first escalationof, they go through the steel,
their product like Cognac thathas to do that two step Chile
(20:36):
product.
Comes out at 23 or 2040 piece ofalcohol.
Not enough for bottled proof.
So what do they do?
They need to take the heads andthe tails.
They put'em in the rectifyingcolumn.
They turn it into pure alcohol,wine, alcohol, share enough.
And then they add this to theirpisco, which lifts the alcoholic
(20:59):
volume degree value to about 76or 78 degrees.
And then they have to add water.
To bring it to the 33 or 35proof.
33 or 35% alcohol.
They sell, they sell a pisco on70 degrees of alcohol.
Right.
70 proof.
Right.
So their product is about onethird Real pisco and third's
(21:20):
water.
Wow.
Yeah.
According is about one half, uh,you could say Peace, PECO and
one have water.
Mm-hmm.
Peruvians, we cannot use water.
This is a very, very, veryimportant element, Francis.
This is something everybody hasto know.
We are absolutely by law, bynorm, distill to proof.
Francis (2) (21:41):
You know, I, I think that is fascinating and
the differences between, I'mattending a seminar down, it
tells the cocktail where we'reboth going to be in a, in a, a
short period of time, uh, in NewOrleans.
I mean, on a, a differencebetween.
Peruvian and Chile and piscothat I, I, you know, I think is
fascinating and, and it, youknow, it's an emerging,
ingredient.
If you're a bartender and you'relistening or if you're making
drinks at home, you've got tohave pisco behind your bar.
(22:04):
And, and it takes a littleknowing about, because it's not
in our cultural lexicon rightnow, but pisco was available in
the United States beforeProhibition, wasn't it, Johnny?
Johnny (22:13):
It wasn't.
Sure.
It was, it was.
We drink in the title of SanFrancpisco.
The time of the 49 years, you'vegot to, you have to read the
book by, uh, this book that'scalled, uh, Marbury Coast, that
was written by Herbert Asbury.
It talks about the cosmopolitanlife of San Francpisco in the
1860s and seventies, and hetalks about the most popular war
in San Francpisco.
(22:34):
The best appointed bar in SanFrancpisco was the bank
exchange, and the most popularthing in the bank exchange was
pisco Punch
Francis (2) (22:41):
pisco punch
Johnny (22:44):
and he calls it the most expensive drinking.
So at the time it cost aquarter.
(24:35):
Right.
That's great.
Nobody told the secret how it'sprepared, but it was, I know it
was, the testimonies are there,the lightings, the historian,
everything is there, and pisco,and he described the secret, the
preparation, the fiscal punchwas fico, a brandy made from.
From the photo from WorldWarship and he takes the name
from there.
(24:55):
The testimonies are there.
Francis (2) (24:56):
You know, it's funny, I remember reading about
that bar and one of the thingsthe proprietor of that bar used
to do is he would take his piscopunch recipe and he would go in
the back and lock the door andhe would, or he'd mix it all up,
and so not even his bartendersknew what was in his particular
piece.
Go punch.
Wild stuff.
Hey, listen Johnny, we need totake a quick break, but I wanna
come back on the other side andtalk a little bit more about
(25:16):
Peru and Chili.
Johnny (25:17):
Sure thing.
Francis (2) (25:18):
Alright, we'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant
guys@restaurantguysradio.com.
Hey there everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys.
We're talking with JohnnySchuler.
He is the proprietor of pisco,Porton and television
personality, and probably theworld's number one ambassador
for Peruvian pisco.
So Johnny, I, I was first drawnto your product from, some stuff
(25:40):
you sent me by email and in themail, uh, about the distillery
that you built, down at one ofthe oldest distillery sites in
America.
In, in the Americas, we, we haveone of the most modern
distilleries in America.
Can you tell us about what youdid down there?
Johnny (25:56):
It's very, very interesting because, uh, when,
when the project is actuallyformed by my partner, bill
Calip, who's a p billionaire,who had sold this ventures here
in Peru and decided he wanted tosay something for the country.
And decided that this was gonnabe a very interesting venture
and he approached D with theoffer, Hey Johnny, you are the
pisco expert in Per, why don'twe join forces and let's go for
(26:19):
it.
And said, Hey, that's awonderful idea.
Great, so let's go.
Visited most of all the, wellthey ask, and I visited all for
my books and my TV program.
when, uh, Bill says, okay, let'sgo, let's, let's turn forces.
I have, I put, I'll be the moneyman.
End the project.
You are the one who knows how todo the product.
Let's the first thing I did nextday, Francis.
(26:41):
What to come down and talk to myfriend Julio Presque.
Paleo who owns this beautiful,beautiful, beautiful, beautiful,
I mean sensual, sexy, beautiful,beautiful distillery that dated
from 1684, and I had seen thedocuments of the purchase of the
property, and that made it theoldest working distillery in all
(27:06):
of the Americas.
Francis (2) (27:07):
That's
Johnny (27:07):
awesome because we needed a real story for our
product.
We don't want it.
We didn't want a Mickey Mouse.
Makeup story to tell, Hey, weare here.
We're not a new vodka.
We're not a new ram.
We're not a new gin.
We've been here, pisco has beenhere for 350 years.
Mm-hmm.
And this distillery has beendoing it right?
(27:27):
Yep.
So buying that, we bought acouple of vineyards adjacent to
the property.
We own four vineyards now, andthen we built in it next to it,
face to face.
You have to connect here.
It's absolutely fascinating.
In front.
The most modern.
But what did I do?
I used the philosophy of the1684 distillery to build a new
(27:50):
one.
Everything in 1684 went done bygravity.
There was no electricity, therewere no pumps.
And that's why the pisco was so,so, so wonderful.
Right?
Right.
And I said, I have to replicatethat.
So I told my architects when wewere signing this, okay, my
fermenters have to go.
(28:10):
14 meters, 30 some feet up inthe air to be able to have the
heights we needed to be able tobring all the flow again by
gravity.
Right.
Wow.
So the whole brand newdistillery replicates the
philosophy of the old one.
I call it signal artisanal.
Francis (2) (28:33):
We
Johnny (28:33):
have, yeah.
We're using.
The best of technology.
We have computers.
We have, uh, our tanks, ourstainless steel tanks, our
jacketed for cold weather, to beable to keep the cold.
So we don't have a, a hightemperature during fermentation
and we don't lose IC structuresand everything is state of the
art.
(28:53):
But then the hand of the man, westill keep our pisco.
It all, all concrete.
Glass-lined tanks.
We still hand harvest all ourgrapes.
We still hand select everything.
Everything is a combination oftechnology and the element of
(29:13):
artisan, the love, the man, thehand-crafted beauty of pisco.
Francis (2) (29:19):
So when did you build the new distillery?
When was that completed?
Johnny (29:24):
The new distillery is, Steve is now under operation.
So the product you have today isthe 2010 in the market,
yesterday morning, I've beentasting with my people within
designing the.
Blend for the 2011 bottlingbecause as you know, they have
another argument here that Imight drive you guys crazy on
(29:45):
your listeners.
Also, as is made from wine, MarkFrancis, my argument is wine
changes every year, and that'swhy we put dates on the bottle
of wine and pisco is made fromwine.
pisco has to change every year.
Francis (2) (30:00):
I think that's amazing.
I think that your commitment tothat
Mark (30:03):
is amazing.
Francis (2) (30:03):
I
Mark (30:03):
mean, almost every other spirit I know they, they want
consistency, but what else Momost important is consistency.
And you know, and I, and I hadthis conversation with somebody
just the other day, I, I preferquality to consistency somehow,
somehow in the McDonaldizationof America.
Agree.
We've decided that it was betterthat it be the same all the time
(30:25):
than it be great all the time.
Johnny (30:27):
Thank you.
Thank you, I am against that.
I don't want to be a productthat is exactly the same for the
next 30 years.
I would be bored to death.
I would have nothing else to do.
My job as a distiller, masterdistiller would be finished.
Huh?
I have beautiful grapes everyyear and they change, and
because I had more sun, left,sun, more water, less water.
(30:49):
More cold, less cold, but drinkchanges.
Francis (2) (30:52):
Will you date the pisco bottles?
Yes.
Always.
Johnny (30:54):
As a matter of fact, when you, when you see it a, a
little secret code, because forsome reason we can't date it in
the States uhhuh, but, uh, we'reworking a little code in there
so that, that we can, we canmore or less identify the, the
dates.
Francis (2) (31:06):
I think that's, I think that's tremendous.
so now the other thing that'sreally interesting, I gotta be
honest with you, Johnny, youhave a.
You, you have a pretty forcefulpersonality, uh, and the way
that you came into the Americanmarket, uh, sort of reflects
your forceful personality.
I'd never heard of pisco Porton,and I think I knew just about
every pisco on the market.
You know, you didn't exist untila couple years ago and you guys
(31:28):
came to us early on and, youwanted to get into our place for
New Jersey, and I think that'sgreat and we, we have, we carry
your product, but.
When I brought in Fpisco, Ithink I was the one of the first
guys around, or first guys Iknew of to carry it.
And now I really see iteverywhere you have, at least in
the northeast.
You know, you guys have really,how did you take such a huge
(31:50):
piece of the market?
So I believe infiltrated as you.
Yeah.
My god.
Johnny (31:53):
You're everywhere.
Well, fortunately, uh, we have,um.
Well, fortunately we do have theresources he behind the product,
right?
Uhhuh, which is very important.
We have the resources and wehave the commitment.
Phil Calip is a man in love withthe project, so he has, allowed
a very substantial amount of monfor us to be able to pull this
(32:16):
through.
We are now in 24 states, and welaunched only in March last
year.
Francis (2) (32:22):
Yeah,
Johnny (32:23):
right.
Francis (2) (32:23):
That's right.
The other thing about you, theway that you guys have marketed
is Yeah, I, I seeadvertisements, and I see you
sponsoring a lot of professionaland trade events, but I, I also,
I think that if the productweren't there, I think what
you're doing gotta be in thebottle.
Yeah.
I mean, if the product weren'tthere, you wouldn't have, you
know, people order one bottlebecause of some deal, uh, but
they don't keep it on their backbar, you know?
(32:44):
And, and, uh, it's, I think it'sa testament to the product.
That's amazing how quicklyyou've done it.
Johnny (32:49):
thanks.
Thanks.
Thanks to you guys.
I mean, thanks to you guys and alot of people that have really
enjoyed and enjoyed the productand have tried it that liked it.
But then again, we must be oneof the spirits that have been
awarded the most amount ofmedals Last year.
We've got 22 medals last year,gold medals all over in Spain,
in Canada, the state in SanFrancpisco, in New York, in
(33:09):
Belgium, everywhere.
So the product is good.
And then we picked medal uphere, down, down, down in, down
in, in the regional in and eatguy in nascar.
Which for me are more importantbecause I'm competing against my
peers down here.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Francis (2) (33:22):
Well, I'll tell you one of these days you're gonna
hear an on-location broadcastfrom, uh, your distillery.
'cause it sounds like a hey of alot of fun
Johnny (33:29):
you guys.
No, you have to come and seewhat we've done here.
You would have so much fun.
We would really, you wouldreally enjoy it because it is
really a beautiful.
Mark, Francis.
It is a dream.
You have to see the vineyards,our commitment with nature, You
know, the stillage is thewastage, right?
Wine.
Once we've evaporated thealcohol, right?
Normally that here in Peru, allthe distilleries throw into the
(33:53):
ditches.
We brought almost a milliondollar investment, a plant from,
from, from Holland that turnsthis back into water for
irrigation.
Mark (34:02):
Wow.
That's terrific.
Johnny (34:03):
So, so our commitment with nature is total our
commitment with our socialcommitment, with the people that
live around us.
We employ everybody the closestwe can to the, to the
distillery, into the vineyards.
We have probably about 120people.
We're not a small, smallventure.
We're a very, very serious.
Very serious operation downhere, but we have a total
(34:24):
commitment.
I'm going, you guys are gonnathink this is crazy, huh?
Listen to this.
They call me Ggo Local downhere.
You know the crazy ggo, well,I've got a funny name, John.
It's not a very typical name forour, for our local, right?
Right.
And, uh, I deal, I built somehuge steel canals on top of my
fermenting Cs, and everybodysays, why did you put that
(34:47):
stretcher up there?
That must weigh up.
Tons and tons here.
It wastes tons and it costs alot of money, but that is a
system that has trip irrigationand a good vegetation up there.
Mark (34:58):
Oh, you have a green roof.
Johnny (35:00):
Crazy.
so it's in the angle of each slon the roof.
There's this line of vegetation.
Why?
Because plants will take a CO2from my fermentation process and
change it back into oxygen.
Now, I don't know if it's gonnawork or not, but I thought it
was a wonderful idea.
Francis (2) (35:16):
Hey, and it sounds like a lot of fun.
Listen, Johnny, sooner or lateryou'll be seeing us down in
Peru.
Thanks for coming on the show,Johnny.
Johnny (35:23):
Oh, my pleasure.
Thank you guys for having onboard Shalu Porton, and enjoy
it.
Francis (2) (35:28):
Salu Johnny.
Johnny, Schuler is the founderand president of, uh, pisco
Porton in Peru.
You can find out more about himat our website, restaurant guys
radio.com.
Stick with us.
We'll be back in just a moment.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys.
(36:18):
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis.
you know, we have a sort of a nocell phone rule on the show, but
we had to break it because hewas actually in the vineyard.
You
Mark (36:27):
know, that we had
Francis (2) (36:27):
a,
Mark (36:27):
we had a, so it might not have been the easiest show to
listen to, but, uh, he is, youknow, Johnny's the most
interesting man in the world.
He is, by the way.
Francis (2) (36:35):
The hell.
You know, it's funny, I don'tknow if you could tell from his
voice, but I bet there are a lotof women that just fell in love
with him by listening to this.
he's, he's a great guy and he's,he's part race, car driver race,
you
Mark (36:45):
know, he, he's got all the, all the characteristics.
Francis (2) (36:47):
He came and did an event, he sponsored our Dale
Degra event at the restaurantwhere, where Dale, you know, he
sponsored Dale actually.
He came and, and, uh, did on thetown, which was his, uh, song
and dance thing at, well, nodancing.
Dale did a song and dance.
No, no.
And uh, but he was great.
(37:07):
I mean, I think that people wereas charmed by him as they were
by Dale.
And, uh, and the product isgreat and you know, it's a
category that I didn't knowabout until seven years ago, you
know?
Mark (37:16):
Yeah.
It was, it, it's, it's obviouslybasically, I don't wanna say new
to the East coast'cause we'vehad it for 150 years, but, uh,
but it's 300 years down there.
Right.
But, but basically it was aforgotten spirit.
That has reemerged.
Yeah.
It's changed from, this kind ofafterthought spirit to now it's
gotta be on your back bar.
Oh.
Francis (2) (37:36):
And you know, I, I had not sipped, the porton I had
not just didn't occurred to methat porton via sipping
cocktail.
And I sat with Johnny for aboutan hour.
And we
Mark (37:46):
sipped'em.
Well, I remember when we firstbrought pisco Porton in and we
put it into our cocktails and wesaid, Hey, that's not great.
And, and it was more because itwas more intense than the other
piscos it was throwing ourrecipes on.
Right.
We had a rejigger of the recipe.
So we had a, we had to changeeverything that we wanted to use
pisco porton in.
We had to change the recipebecause it just, it, the pisco
(38:08):
porton was actually a little bittoo intense for most of
Francis (2) (38:10):
our, yeah.
Wild stuff.
Most of
Mark (38:11):
our
Francis (2) (38:11):
Peace
Mark (38:11):
cup
Francis (2) (38:12):
wild stuff.
Um, but.
I, I am go, I'm going to Peru.
Okay.
Going, because you know what,you can go down and you can,
visit his vineyards, you can,you can go right across to
Mendoza Valley.
So I'm, I'm gonna make that atrip.
Yeah.
He'll do
Mark (38:23):
a little, do a little, uh, south American.
Francis (2) (38:26):
It's a cool thing.
What they're doing down there iscool, and how they resurrected
an old tradition is what wereally like, which is probably
why we had'em on the show.
I hope you guys have enjoyedthis hour as much as we
certainly have.
I'm Francis Shock.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurantguys@restaurantguysradio.com.
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