274. Sea, soul and sunshine: An Adriatic adventure in Le Marche

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dreaming of discovering in Italy Beyond the usual tourist trail.
The market is a stunning region nestled between the Adriatic
Sea and the Apennines, where medieval hilltowns, pristine beaches, and
authentic local cuisine await Join us as we chat to
Italy guidebook author Karina Cook, who shares inside the tips
Somewhere to Go, what to eat, plus a bonus pep

(00:20):
talk on why you should see the day and plan
your trip.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Now Tawatuti and Benvenuti Tuan Told Italy the Travel podcast
to where you go to the towns and villages, mountains
and lakes, hills and coastlines of Bella, Italia. Each week,
your host Katie Clark takes you on a journey in

(00:44):
a search of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato, and
of course, a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming
of Italy and planning future adventures there, you've come to
the right place.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Do you dream of speaking Italian but feel stuck? I
hear you Whether you want to connect with your Italian
heritage a partner, or you want to live in Italy.
Finding the right tools to match your learning style is important.
My friend Michelle from Intrepid Italian offers a practical approach
to learning Italian with her unique eighty twenty method, teaching
you only what you need to know. As an adult

(01:30):
learner herself with Italian heritage, she really knows how to
bridge the gap between English and Italian. As Angela from
Australia said, I put my inability to learn down to
my senior stage of life, but with Intrepid Italian it
seems to just fit. To find out how Intrepid Italian
can help you learn Italian, and to claim an exclusive

(01:50):
twenty dollars coupon code that you can use on any
of Michelle's online courses from beginner to intermediate, visit Untold
Italy dot com, Forward slash Italian visit the link in
the show notes. As a bonus, you'll also get a
downloadable travel phrase guide absolutely free. So visit untold Italy
dot com, Forward slash Italian to accelerate your Italian.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Dutch.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Our friends, hope you're weakers been as fun as mine.
As we head into the main traveling season in Italy,
there's a lot to talk about. We wrapped up our
first Pullia tour of the season and if you pop
on over to our Instagram you can take a peek
into what we were up to there, enjoying the sunshine,
the incredible cuisine and of course local stories. Pulia has
some wonderful characters and some of my favorites that you'll

(02:37):
meet if you join a tour of Pulia, and we
do have the dates for twenty twenty six up now.
These tours are always selling out and we always run
a wait list for them, so if you're keen to
join us next year, then go ahead and take a
look now.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
As a bonus.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Surprise in Pulia, the girod Italia road race zip past
the Musadia where our guests were staying. I had to
laugh one year the Pope was visiting Matera when we
were there, And you know, both events require quite a
lot of security and they do cause some disruption, but
it's all part of the fun of traveling, don't you think.
Now this week we have guests exploring Tuscany from Kianti

(03:16):
country to Luka and as I record this today, they're
about to make a proper feast with a view of
Sanjominiano in the distance. Plus I've just finished recording an
episode about Venice with a wonderful journalist from CNN that
will be aired in a few weeks time. So there's
been quite a lot going on, and sometimes I pinch
myself when I think about how lucky I am to

(03:36):
do this job and to talk to so many people
who love Italy as much as I do. And you
know what, we're all lucky today to have my lovely
friend and podcast favorite Karina Cook back on the show.
If you're new here, Karina is something of an Untold regular,
as I love getting her perspective on all things Italia. Today,
we're heading to the beautiful and largely undiscovered Marque region

(03:57):
for a perfect Italian adventure, So andiamol let's dive in Bennato. Karina,
Welcome back to the Untold Italy podcast.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Thank you, Katie, it's so great to be back. It's
so good to talk to you again. And hello everybody
once again.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Oh gosh, it feels like it's been a while. Anyway,
you're here now, and we I mean, honestly, we could
just gas bag on for ages. We thought we'd press
record after an hour and a half on sorry nearly
two hours of chatting, so we wanted to catch up
and have a chat with everyone today about a beautiful
region called Lamarque. But before we do that, can you

(04:37):
introduce yourself in case some people don't know you and
haven't listened to episodes on Untold Italy with you in
the past.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
My name is Karina Cook, and I write a best
selling series of Italy tour guides called the Glamoratalia How
to Travel Italy Tour Guides, And these books are slightly
different than your regular tour books because they're rather than
sending you into all the main, busy, crazy mass tourism
places inside of a big city, I take you to

(05:07):
places that I enjoy a little kind of secret spots
that are lots of fun. And you know, you can
look down the street and see eleventy billion people waiting
in line to go to something, and then you walk
into your place and it's equally magnificent, if not better,
and it's like you and ten other people. So that's
my game. I write these books and I do small

(05:28):
group tours for women every summer called the Glamatalia Tours. Yeah,
that's it. And I have presets. I have photo presets.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah they knew right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
They're fantastic. They're super fun. Let you modify photos.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Everyone wants to make their photos of Italy look amazing,
so you should all go check that out. But Karina
and I were talking before and it was super interesting
because we have very similar philosophy on travel and on
basically life in general. And what we were saying is
some we've had in our personal life, maybe not so

(06:01):
great things happen to some friends of ours, and it's
really important everyone just to not delay what you can
do today because you know, we don't know what's around
the corner. You know, we don't know if we're going
to be in good health or or whatever.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
And we do hear a lot of.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
People saying, oh, I can't quite go to Italy this year.
I'm going to wait for a couple of years and
save up some more, but oh I really wish.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
I hear a lot of people say, well, I'm going
to wait until the kids are out of school, or
we're going to wait until we've got our kids through college,
or we're going to wait until we retire, And I
just think, don't wait. Go now. Your knees and your
hips are never going to be as good as they
are now. So you want to go and do things
while you can, and you just don't know what's around

(06:51):
the corner. And my life as well as in Katie's life,
we both have people who've had some pretty heavy things
happen in the last little bit and had those people. Luckily,
you know, my people have done an extraordinary amount of traveling,
so at least they've done that. But imagine if you
had waited your whole life to go on your dream trip.
And I get so many people who message me or

(07:13):
send me messages on my website and everything, and they say,
I've been waiting. I've been wanting to go since I
was this age, and now I'm that age, and I
keep thinking, go now, go book, I'm doing bye bye bye.
You don't have what's around the corner. Side of things
is when you go, now this thing that seems like

(07:35):
an enormous hurdle if you haven't been before. Once you've gone,
you can see, oh, this is really not that difficult,
and I can swing some other little trips and I
can do this, that and the other, and you just
enrich your life, especially I think with Italy more than anywhere.
Going to Italy enriches your life. You know, you come

(07:56):
away with a bigger, better, juicy life. It's magnificent. I've
devoted my life to Italy because it's just been so
life changing and I want that for everybody. So I
do think go now, do not put.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
It off, absolutely, And I think another side to that
is that we know people make predictions, and I think,
whatever's going on in the world, and there are many
crazy things happening, but we just don't know what's going
to happen. So people decided not to go to Rome
this year because of the Jubilee, the Medican Jubilee, which

(08:34):
is kind of I think it's on pause.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I don't know. Now we've got a new pope and
all of those things.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
But I mean people on the ground are telling us
that it's not being that busy, so you know, I
like people were staying away because they thought it would
be really crazy busy, but it looks like it's not
as busy as it has been in previous years. So
we just don't know what's going to happen. You don't
know what's going to happen with the exchange rates, you
don't know. We just don't know, and don't feel like

(09:00):
we've got one precious life. Let's just do all the
things that will make us happy. And if you're just
thinking you might, you've been dreaming away.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
You've just got to take that next step.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
And usually the next step for me is booking the flights,
which is quite a big step. But once you've done that,
you're committed, you're done, You're off.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
And if you are someone who thinks, well, I can't
afford it. We did a really good episode way back,
do you remember Katie and have a budget for her
how to make the money work, And I gave tons
of really cool tips for strategies and I'm I mean,
I was a single mom, I had no damn money,
and I strategized and I still use the same strategies

(09:45):
and get to travel an enormous amount more do an
enormous amount more. So things aren't always as impossible as
they might seem.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Totally absolutely, And also you know, if you need help,
We've actually got people coming to us for our trip
plan that are on a very very tight budget, and
some of our team are very very adept at helping
with that. And so it's all about thinking outside the
square because you know, like if you have a planning place,
you can really save a lot of money rather than

(10:16):
if you're trying to wing it. And I'm going to
tell a story about someone in my family that should
know better, and they don't listen.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
To this podcast, so I'm going to tell this story.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
They wanted to, you know, save some money, so they
chose the cheap flights from a country within Europe which
will remain nameless, and they took the flight to the
secondary airport in Rome. Now, if you get to this airport,
which is pumpin or, there's not as many transport options
into the city. Anyway, there was no taxis available. They
hadn't booked to transfer, and so they decided to get

(10:51):
the bus. They got on the bus, not really realizing
even though they speak fluent Italian that they needed a ticket,
and surprise, they got two fines of i think over
two hundred euros each, so that it was four hundred
euros expense that they were.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Not budgeting for.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
And you know, if they had just done a little
prep prior, they could have booked a transfer for about
sixty euros been at their hotel relaxing instead of being
annoyed about the two hundred eurofine. So my point is
here you need to be thinking. You can think about
all the little bits.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Because they do all that up.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
But also sometimes taking a step back and looking at
the bigger picture can help save quite a bit of
cash hold of yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
And also if you don't have a lot of money,
Italy can be a fantastic place. I'm when I look
back now, I'm quite astounded as to take my son
and we would go and have these amazing trips in Italy,
and really we were doing it on the smell of
an oily rag. I mean, we had no money, and

(11:55):
yet we had these unbelievable experiences, which I mean he
still talks about it now and he's grown now, and
he talks about all the fun you remember when we
went to Rome and when we went here, and all
these fun things that we did. And you really, I mean,
you really can do Italy quite inexpensively. Actually, if you
break up your trips so that you're seeing some of

(12:17):
the big famous places. And I mean if you haven't
been to Italy before, of course you want to see
Venice and Florence and Rome and maybe their Malfi coast
althe I mean, I love your Malfi Coast because it's beautiful,
but it's not the place that it was for a
very long time. Like I used to take all of
my tours there, you know, because I loved it, But

(12:37):
then the last couple of years that I was going,
it was just battling through cruise ship crowds, the prices
of everything, just that simple pleasure of having a partie
for grdering us sprits and having some snacks. The snacks
turned into just being potato chips, and the sprit's got
more expensive, and there was eleven billion people all around you,

(12:58):
and I was like, I don't know. With this podcast,
Katie tells you about all kinds of different places that
you can add in and say you're getting a bit
off the beaten path, But I think that kind of
makes it sound like you're going into the outback or something,
whereas really it's everywhere there is so accessible by train,
so inexpensive to get places by train, and you can,

(13:19):
I don't know, you can do all these things and
have a whole day adventure and.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
It doesn't have to be like, you know, like an
adventure with stress. It can be a fun adventure that
will take you to places you never dreamed of and
let you eat and drink the things that will blow
your mind. And it's all about, yeah, having a bit
of a mix. So should we talk about this place
that we want to take people to today, Lenmarque.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
So I went to Lemarque last summer. Normally, at the
end of my June tours, I take myself off on
a beach vacation. I love beach vacations more than anything
in the world. And I think there's something about the
way that Italians do summer beach. It's so iconic. It's
so different from everywhere else. And I try to always

(14:07):
go somewhere I haven't been before, so you know, I
can experience something new. And this time I went to Lemarque. Now,
Lemarque is a region that's between the Apennines and the
Aduatic Sea. It's borders with Abruzzo in the South Umbria,
and I guess it's the east west the sea. I'm

(14:30):
not good at dpsing Ita Romana to the north, and
there's like a little sliver where it meets Tuscany and
a little sliver where it meets Latio. But so basically
we're on that east coast of Huf. I'm looking at
Adie going is it east And it's fabulous. It's just wonderful.

(14:51):
I picked up a rental car, and here's a tip
for everybody. I actually have a home in Tuscany and
there's rental car places not far from me. But I
they had rented a car earlier in the summer, and
when I went to pick it up, they only had
big cars, and I'm like, there haven't been a big car.
It turned out on that trip it was all right,
but thank goodness, I decided with my trip to Lamarque

(15:16):
that I was going to pick up a car at
the airport in Florence because I knew they would give
me a little car. And when you're going into places
that have magnificent little medieval hilltowns, they have magnificent little
medieval streets that you really need a small car. So anyway,
we drove through Umbria, which by the way, is beautiful.

(15:39):
It's just so beautiful, and then you go through this
series of tunnels and you come out into La Marque.
It's like you're in a a fever dream or something,
because it's just every hilltop has another little castle town
on it. It's beautiful. There's not tour buses. This is
a region that is not really about to robuses. They

(16:01):
decided that they wanted to get a better quality of
tourism rather than quantity of tourism, which I think is
really important. So Le Marque has a population of about
one point five million. Its capital is a town called Ancona,
which is a port city, and that's on the Riviera
del Carnero that we're going to talk about in a
little bit. And then they have other famous towns like Urbino,

(16:25):
where a fel came from, which is a major Renaissance town.
It's gorgeous. It's a college town, which means always fun
and alive.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
I'm going there in June.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
I can't wait. I'm so excited. I'm going to Urbino.
And this is the thing because like even I've never
been there, and I am going to Rome in June
and I'm going to be there for a week.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
But then I'm going on an adventure and I think
that's so fun.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Because you know, even if you've been there a million times,
you can always find something new.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Always always meant to find new places. There's so many
cool things to do. But so with this trip, we
started off we went to a beautiful town called Ascolipichena,
and this is one of my favorite towns in Italy.
It's well off that mass tourism radar. It's very chic.

(17:17):
It's very cosmopolitan with a sensational gentro storical just stupendous.
It's quite upwardly mobile, so we're not out in the boonize,
you know, where it's all farmers on tractors. Not that
there's anything wrong with that, but this is quite a
chic little town. It reminded me a lot of Travisto,
where it's supremely clean. I wasn't aware of graffiti, there

(17:41):
was no trash around. It was really beautiful and everybody
kind of dresses nicely and they're all very proud of
their town. And Ascoli is absolutely beautiful. It's called the
Trapatine city because the town is literally made of local travertine.
The town is really really old. The first people that

(18:05):
we know of that lived there were a tribe called
the Pucheni tribe, and they were back in the ninth
century BC. So we're going now, I think back of millennia.
The Romans took over in two sixty eight BC, and
this is the first architectural impact we see here because
they raised the old town and built over it with

(18:27):
this local stone that was very similar to what they
used to build Tivoli. So it's this white travertine and
it's absolutely gorgeous. And they made Uscuoli into a mini
Rome with temples and a forum and thermal bas and amphitheater,
a Roman theater, all this cool stuff. In fact, one

(18:48):
of the piazza's, Piazza Santa Marso, has a slightly round
shape because it was built on top of the old amphitheater,
so it's really cool. And there are signs of old
Rome everywhere. So much of the old Roman building material
was just upcycled across the centuries instead of being trashed
and thrown away. Many of these luxurious travatine buildings and

(19:09):
then the paving stones in the city actually date back
to the ancient moments. And if you look around, you'll
see Roman columns built into buildings. You'll see like chunks
of old arches that have been just incorporated into some
new building. It's really cool. So you see lots of
the old Rome with it. And the thing about this

(19:30):
special travertine that is there, and then the special light
that hits us schollly is. The Travatine takes on the
personality of the ambient light. So on a rainy day
it looks great. On a sunny day, oh my goodness,
it's shimmering, bright white, and you feel that you've walked
into heaven or something. I mean, which you kind of have.

(19:53):
But at golden hour it gets these delicious apricot hues
wash all over the town and and then if you
are lucky enough to be there in the moonlight, it
glows like a mirage. It's just beautiful. And so when
you have a place that's this visually spectacular, life revolves
around being outdoors. So it has a very outdoorsy kind

(20:15):
of city. So everybody walks in cycles everywhere. The piazzas
are all ringed with eateries and bars, and these are like, again,
they're not touristing. Well when we were there, we were
there June twenty ninth, my friend and I and I'm
not sure we were aware of other tourists at all.
You felt like you had just walked onto a movie set. Really,

(20:38):
So you get to sit in any of these piazzas
and just soak up this beautiful, beautiful town and watch
people you know, you get a real sense of their
civic pride, because everybody's proud of their beautiful town and
the way that they move through it, you know, really
snacks of that pride. They know they live somewhere beautiful
and special when they take really good care of it.

(21:01):
It has two main piazzas. The first one is Piazza Orengo,
which is huge and is the oldest monumental square and
that's where the cathedral is, and it has a couple
of big palazzos. There are fabulous foody places all around
to keep coming back because we were staying actually not
far from our scholi, but there was just so much

(21:23):
great food and life and everything happening there you just
wanted to keep going back. And then the other famous
one is the Pilazzo del Popolo, which is a stunning
rectangular palazzo, a piazza at least known to be one
of the most harmonious and beautiful in all of Italy.
You know, your eye responds to that harmony and balance

(21:45):
and beauty, so you just kind of feel like ah
when you're in there. The ancient Greeks and Romans knew this,
and Bruno Lesqi rediscovered it at the beginning of the Renaissance.
So this piazza was built in fifteen oh nine, and
it has all those beautiful like the beautiful Brunelesqui style

(22:05):
arches that he copied from the Romans. At one end
there's a thirteenth century basilica, there's a Palazzo Popolo, which
is the like the city hall from forever ago, with
a big medieval tower. And then at the far end
one of the most famous cafes in all of Italy.

(22:28):
It's one of the most celebrated and one of the
most iconic, and that's the Cafe Meletti, And that's an
absolute must. You have to go there, and actually you
have to experience being inside because the whole Art deco
thing inside is beautiful. But there is just pure magic
sitting outside this beautiful iconic cafe having a cappuccino or

(22:50):
I was driving, so I had to just have coffees
and stuff. But Kay was like, I'm having another spirits
and it was just like living large. It was so fun.
But sitting there, I mean Hemingway used to go there,
and Sup used to go there. And this cafe created
back in nineteen seven oh seven. This local drink called

(23:11):
Aneiset and it's an Any's flavored drink and they serve
it with like the three coffee beans in the top.
And I had been told and had read that it's
like rocket fuel, so I was thinking, no, I don't
want to try it, but it's absolutely fabulous.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
It's so great.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
In fact, the bartender was like, no, you can't not
try it, and I'm like, oh, I don't like this
grappery kind of thing. He's like, it's nothing like a grappa.
You must try and so I'm but I'm driving and
he goes have coffee after have a sit that. He
was like, he wouldn't let me leave the place without
trying it. And it was fantastic. And then they have
all this great stuff that is this Honeyset flavor, so

(23:51):
you can get cookies, and they had these fabulous chocolates.
I was buying them for everybody for Christmas from me.
Got these little bottles of aney Set and these little
chocolates and cookies, and they even have Aniset flavored gelata,
which is fantastic. So we on the first day when
we were going into Lemark Gay, we stopped in our

(24:12):
Scholie and we bought aniset to take to our airbnb
and then we had to keep going back.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Can I just before you continue, like why you been talking?
I was thinking, oh, you know, like how.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Far is it from Rome and Rome Airport?

Speaker 1 (24:29):
And do you know what, I've just popped it in
the Google Maps and it's like it's closer than Florence
from Fimachino.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
Yeah. I mean like you could get a train to
like Bizarre, or you could get a train to and
Color is a little bit more so there are places
where you could get a train to and pack up
a rental car. You really do need a rental car,
but I mean.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Still it's less than three hours from and it's like nothing.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
It's not like driving in busy places. I mean, these
are wide open roads. They're very easy to navigate. So
you could be a first time driver in Italy and
this would be a nice easy entry to you that
we get before we leave Askali. They've also got an
amazing little theater there. It's called the Teatro vin Tito Basol,

(25:21):
and it's like a little hidden jawl. It's beautiful with
frescoes and paintings and all these velvet finishes. It's like
one of those oval theaters that has four levels of
opera box. I mean it's like a little chocolate box
or a little jewelry box and you step into it
and you're like, oh my goodness, this is so beautiful.
And that town has a very strong performing arts culture.

(25:44):
I think Askali is a must, like you just have
to go there. It's one of those places that you
want to allow yourself time to just stroll and wander
and arrive hungry because the food is unbelievable, so you
want to be able to stop and look and shop
and just take time even just to there's something magical

(26:05):
about sitting in either of the big piazza's or even
some of the smaller ones are gorgeous and just be
and just watch and enjoy and it's oh, it's magic.
Like it was one of those places that I felt like, oh, yeah,
I could build a life here. I could live here,
and I could build a life here. It's just wonderful.
Whereas there's lots of places that I love going to,

(26:26):
but I wouldn't want to live there, and no sign
of mass tourism, which I love. But then we're going
to jump in the car and get ready to be
wowed because we're going to head to the Adriatic Coast,
which is only I want to say, it's about twenty
nine kilometers from us schooling, so it takes about fifteen

(26:47):
minutes on this like superstrata that's big and wide open.
And you came driving along and suddenly whosh up comes
the Adriatic and it is so beautiful. It's, oh my goodness.
The the Lemarke coastline is one hundred and seventy three
kilometers of beaches and they are stupendous. I mean, this

(27:08):
is you're going to see white sand, You're going to
see crystal clear water. Some of the beaches have pebbles,
but they're those smooth pebbles and they're white and they're
kind of like easy to walk on. The whole coast
is gorgeous, and you know, in fact that if you
go Lemarkee and then next down you've got Abruzzo, and
then you go down to Pulia, that whole stretch is

(27:29):
just I mean, it's like dream beaches. Really, if you're
not a beachy person, it's just the visuals are astounding.
So it's also full of hidden coves and like really
dramatic landscapes with cliffs and headlands and those you know,
those white limestone looking cliffs and everything, and then a
lot of wild vegetation around as well, So it's you

(27:53):
just keep like taking it with them because you quite
believe what you're seeing. It's so amazing. And then also
it is full of these charming little medieval towns that
are on a hill. And then there's the beach down
at the bottom. So there's a train line that runs
along that bottom flat part from Brindisey all the way

(28:13):
to Bologna. So there is the train track, but I
don't know. When you're up in the little towns that
you stay in and you look out across, all you're
seeing is the sea. So it's beautiful. So at the
bottom of La Marque, where it meets a Bruzzo, you
have a very well known to Italians and Europeans but

(28:34):
not to the rest of US beach area called San
Benedetto del Toronto. And this stretch is called the Palm
Tree Riviera. There's more than eight thousand palm trees lining
the Longo Mare and they have this big wide I mean,
it's like a street wide promenade and you can rent
bikes and bike along there, and it's oh, it's so gorgeous,

(28:57):
and I think it's about ten kilometers of biking area
that you have just biking along the beach, and lots
of nice little places to stay there, and a lot
of the places when I was looking for where I
was going to rent, a lot of them came with
a bicycle or they had some kind of access for
you to have bicycles so you could bike around and
really super and again it's not known by more than

(29:21):
really than Europeans, so that tends to be a different
kind of tourist that is there. And then a little
bit up from there, there's another one called Grotto Mare
which seriously, Google it Google, and it's not that Google
doesn't give it even ten percent of the magic of
this place. So it's a it's an absolutely stunning medieval

(29:45):
town on and these hills that I'm talking about their
little hills. Technically you could walk them, but I'd rather
die than walk them, so I drive up and bike
down absolutely stun stunning little town. And you know there's
bits where like the castle walls fall ins. You have

(30:05):
this arch and you stand at the arch and there's
no anything beyond it, just the sea. The number of
times that we were just like like, look at this,
this is incredible, And we actually went up there and
had lunch one day. What we did was in the
mornings we'd go around and see things and then have
lunch the We're fabulous and then be at the beach
in the afternoons and it was it was so fun.

(30:28):
I think it's really important to take some time to
explore these little towns and villages and and just taking
these views and people live there and you're just like,
how come people live there and this just be their
normal life? You know?

Speaker 3 (30:40):
So Comena, do you know if they had a lot
of foreign influence there?

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So you know what I mean, like, so you know,
in Umbria they haven't really had a lot of people
say it's almost like the true Italy because it's really
largely been untouched by foreign A.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
Beach Umbria with a beach, is that the same, that's
same kind of vibe where you just feel like you're
in the very real world. There's not selfie stick sellers,
there's you're not walking past shops full of fridge magnets
and things. It's just people that live there.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
We're going to the beach having a fish supper.

Speaker 4 (31:19):
You know, I live for that Italian summer beach club experience,
so I really take advantage of that. And where we stayed,
we found this, I mean, it was ridiculous, Katie. It's
just I don't believe it. There's little towns called Coopera
Maritima and they have the old town up on the hill,

(31:41):
so it's Maritima Alto. I think it's called Alta Alta
and it was like a castle town and we had
this apartment that was stupendous. It was ridiculous with giant
terraces looking out over the you know, looking out over
the sea from one side and over the castle from
the other. And it was also one of those places

(32:03):
that had every mod column you could possibly think of.
It was amazing rental but it was just magnificent and
of course not really any tourism, so driving up the
hill was a little something something that was one of
those times I was like, thank goodness, I had a
tiny car. And the parking was interesting and my parking

(32:26):
skill was definitely developed while I was there. But everyone
that you encountered was local and it was really interesting.
Because our first day there, we thought, well we'll go
down and have the afternoon at a beach club. And
we drove down the hill. It takes three minutes to
drive down and a total of five minutes to get

(32:46):
to the beach, and it's just beach club after beach
club lined up along this beach and it's you know,
as far out as you can swim, you can see
to the bottom, and it's just ridiculous. So we go
in there and they don't get a lot of Americans.
And so the lady that was running the place, I
wanted to talk and I was like, where are you from,
and why are you here? And how did you come

(33:06):
to be here? And so I chatted away to her
for a bit, and then every time we'd come back
in because they all these beach clubs, for those of
you who haven't been, they have all the rows of
the umbrellas and the sun chairs and they all have
their own we would call it a cafe, they call
it a bar and a restaurant. So in Italy you
get coffee in a bar, not in the cafe. So

(33:29):
every time you're walking back to get something to drink,
or you're going to get a coffee or you want
to get a snack, whatever, you're coming back in there.
So she would be there and she would chat to
me some more. And I had actually got a parking
ticket and ascually and I couldn't figure out how to
pay it, and so she's like, well, let me have
a look and then she said to me, oh, well
you should go to the bank. Here's the bank to
go to. Go there in the morning. The bank manager

(33:51):
can deal with it. And when I went in the
next morning, the bank manager comes out, I guess O,
there you are, and he said tells me the lady
had already called him and said you're coming. Let me
have a look at and he's like, no, you won't
be able to I can't pay that here for you. You
need to go to the post office. But the post
office closes at one, so you have to go tomorrow.

(34:12):
I go into the post office the next morning and
the women are like, ah, there you are.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
The guy from the bank said that you were coming.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
And it was one of those kind of deals. The
first couple of nights that we were staying in our
little castle house with the view, there was a bar
restaurant up along the castle wall with this view out
across the sea. That again was just I mean, just stupid.
This is ridiculous. You feel like it can't possibly be real.

(34:38):
But that place was closed the first couple of nights,
and then the third night was open. So we thought, okay, great,
we'll go there. And we walk in and the guy
comes out from behind the bar and he goes, ah,
so you went to the beach a couple of days
ago And I'm like yeah, and he goes and you
went to the bar with the oh it was like
the yellow umbrellas or something. I'm like, yes, yes, I did,
and he goes, yes. She told me that you were

(34:59):
staying out here and that you might come by, so
you know, we've all been keeping an eye out for you.
And it was just that kind of experience where people
noticed that you were in town because they don't get
people that look like us. They get Europeans, and so
you were a little bit of a novelty, but enough
of a novelty that people knew and they knew where

(35:22):
you were staying, and we're like, well, let me help
you with this, let me help you with that, and
we just oh, we had such a fantastic time that
would be a.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Bit open minded for that.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
And I think, you know, because some people that I
know I'm not mentioning any names, might get a little
bit like I'm being stalked. But yeah, it is really kind.
They're just being kind, you know, and they want to help.
And I think that's one thing when you go to
somewhere where they don't get a lot of visitors, they're
so proud to show you their environment and they're you know,

(35:53):
last week we talked about South Carrol and they're very
sleek in the way that they manage visitors. But you know,
there's something also extremely charming when people are just genuinely
happy to see you.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Yeah, I mean, it makes you feel so good. You're
not an annoying tourist when you're in a place like this,
You're a new person that they've met and that might
be their friend. And we just had such a great time.
I mean, it was wonderful. So Cooper Maritima was a
lovely place to base ourself because you've got this whole
enormous coastline that is just sensational, and forty minutes up

(36:29):
the coast you get to the Carnero Riviera, so there's
a mountain and a how do you say promontory, I can, Yeah,
there you go called Mont Monte Carnero, and that's like
really high drama visuals. That's where you have those white
cliffs and the oh crazy. And on one side, on

(36:53):
the side that was on our side of the hill,
there's a town called Numana, and this is one everybody
has to google because Numana m u A n A
is stunning. It's ridiculously stunning. And then on the other
side of the mount you have Sirollo s I R

(37:13):
O l O, which I mean, I give up.

Speaker 3 (37:16):
That's it's supposed to be amazing.

Speaker 4 (37:20):
Stupid, gorgeous, Like there's not words to describe these kind
of places because they're so beautiful. You have all that
wild vegetation and then these these white cliffs and the
blue blue, blue, blue, blue sea, and these towns are
so charming and so gorgeous, and you feel like, how

(37:40):
can they possibly be here when I know, you know,
this was late June, so I know the Amalfi Coast
would have been just a parking lot and just impossible.
And here we are in this beautiful place that just
had local people and you know Europeans that were there,
So it's just very easy to move around in. You
have space to breathe and everything. But you're in a

(38:03):
place that is so sensationally beautiful you're at a loss
for words. And it also has some beaches that you
just can't drive up to and get to. So there's
some where you go down a path down the mountain
and get to them, and you can't see them unless
you're like right at the edge of that lip of
that mountain looking down. So if you, by the way,

(38:23):
if you're a new mana and you go up into
the town, when you like pick yourself up from falling
over at how stunning this town is, walk up to
like the top part of the town and it takes
you to like a belvedere, like a lookout point, and
you can look down and see secret beaches that you
couldn't otherwise see. You know that. Of course they have

(38:45):
the chairs and the umbrellas and the everything there, and
it's absolutely gorgeous, but it's it's just stunning.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
How much as a beach club beach club there Careina,
because I'm hearing some whoa wacky stories about the other
side of the we.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Are most expensive one We went to this really Fufi
one one day in Numna because we get driving back
up to New Mana because.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
It was foofy experience.

Speaker 4 (39:08):
You know, a place it's so crazy beautiful your brain
can't compute and it doesn't want to just have that
experience one time. Most of the beach clubs were ten
euros fifteen euros for the day, and the super Fufi one,
the one that was all like really ladied out, was
twenty bucks for the day. That was our big spinned

(39:29):
beach club. And the restaurants, they all have a fabulous restaurant.
Italians take eating really seriously, so you're not getting some
kind of skunky backwater wine and you're not getting some
nasty burgers and fries kind of food. It's fabulous food
and stupendous wines, which I'm going to tell you about

(39:50):
in a moment, but it was just tremendous. And we
took a boat. I'd read about this beach called Due
Sorelle the Two Sisters. There's frolicks that they have by Capri.
So you take a boat. You can take a private
boat or you can take a ferry and it goes
out to DUIs Sore. It drops you off and then

(40:12):
it comes back and gets you later on in the day.
That one doesn't have any beach club stuff, so you're
just you and the beach, and I mean there's a
bunch of people that come out in the ferry. You're
not out there by yourself. But that was really, really beautiful,
and I would say that unless you're somebody that really
doesn't like being on the water, definitely have a boat

(40:33):
experience up there, either chatter a boat to go on
a trip up the coast, or even just from Numana,
jump on the ferry and go to Douis Sorele because
it is so outrageously beautiful and there's so much that
you can only see from the sea. You know, it's wonderful.

(40:54):
But then on the other side, of course, you have Sirolo,
which is known as the Pearl of the Adriatic. These
towns there are not just beaches, so there's a beach
town at the bottom and you have somewhat beachy atmosphere,
but inside these little towns it's art and history and
culture and you know, medieval castles and stuff, so you

(41:15):
really can be hitting a lot of buttons in one go.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Did you make it to Loretto.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
No, so we just went as far as Sirolo, and like,
when I look on the map at how far we went,
it really wasn't that far. But I feel like we
just saw so much, you know, and it's so many incredible,
incredible experiences. And if you google, the heaus me telling

(41:42):
everybody google Google. But there are so many outstanding towns
all through here, and towns that I know that the
people listening to Untold Italy would just die over. I mean,
they've got everything that we want to see and fall
in love with in Italy. And they also have the beach,

(42:04):
and of course there is a lot of La Marquee
that is not on the beach, but I live for beaches,
and these are all blue Flag beaches as well, which
in Europe they have a and we talked about this before,
they have a like a grading system of beaches, and
blue flag is the primo and Italy has more Blue

(42:24):
Flag beaches than anywhere else in all of Europe. And
it's based on the cleanliness of the water, the cleanliness
of the area around the beaches, how well they maintain
the native foliage and everything, so it doesn't look like
Miami with all high rises it's kept looking beautiful. And
a lot of these beaches are also actually really good

(42:45):
for if you have little east because they don't drop off,
so Numana drops off and gets deep more quickly, but
a lot of them have a long way out where
it's just kind of knee deep, so the water gets
nice and warm again, it's crystal clear. But if you're
traveling with children, you couldn't go wrong. And then over

(43:07):
there too, I feel as though when people are traveling
with children, it's not chaos. You know, they all seem
to behave nicely and they're having fun and they're playing
and the parents are involved, and I'm taking photos and
videos how fantastic it all looks. You know, it's just
the perfect place for a summer vacation. And then there's
other places like Barno is another town that has all

(43:30):
these like Roman ruins that's in that same stretch. There's
on the other side of Sirollo those Portanovo. You know,
you can't say that the Marque is necessarily more beautiful
than like Guria, or you couldn't say that Pulia is
more beautiful than a Malfi, but you can say you
get to choose the experience that you want, and I

(43:52):
don't want an experience where I'm just slammed in with
cruise ship people and selfie stick sellers and expensive sprit says,
when I know that I can go to a place
like this and have a dream experience where you're somewhere
gorgeous and local with local prices and local life and
no tour buses.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Keep heading at as well, and you can go. You
can you eventually hit San Marino and you go to
a totally different country.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
Yeah, exactly. But you know, I really think that La
Market has distinguished itself for preferring quality tourism over quantity
master tourism. So you really do have a tremendous, tremendously
different It's you know, like like Umbria. This is the

(44:40):
Italy that you've dreamed about, you know, so you know,
you don't dream about being in massive crowds. So but
it is a place that you must drive. There is
a train that goes along the waterfront, but you really
need to have a car.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Chugger.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Tell us about the food and the wine please, Alright,
So the cuisine is fantastic.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
There's so many foods that are special to Lemarque. But
I made a little list of things that are mustrys
and that you will see all over the place. So
the first one are the stuffed olives that are called
olive ascolana. So they're from Ascoli Priceno and they're stuffed,
breaded and fried and everywhere you go in everywhere I

(45:30):
went in Lemarque, when we're going to stop and have
a pair of tiffo, this little bowl of the stuffed
olives would come out and they'd be hot, they've just
been cooked, and they're just game over. They're so great.
And in fact, in Ascoli that first piazza I told
you about the first of the big ones, the Piazza Arengo,
there's a really famous olive al ascolana place there that

(45:56):
is just wonderful, and they'll serve it to you often
in a paper cone, and you just walk down the
street eating these little things. They're fantastic. It's also very
famous if you like muscles, these wild muscles called mosioli.
I think that's how you pronounce it, and they come
from a very specific part of the Corneo Riviera, and
there's a special way that they catch them and everything too.

(46:19):
I think I'm going to just like completely jack up
all my pronunciation here. So if you are a fluent
Italian speaker and you hear me killing your language, I
do apologize. There's a sausage called gia suolo cia scolo,
which is the most famous sausage in La Marque. It's
a spreadable kind of salami. It's tremendous. You will have

(46:41):
it in a million places. When you go out for
an appartifo. If they're serving some crostini, they'll normally have
some of that on it. It's wonderful. There's a prosciutto
called prosciuto di capagna, which is heavenly. It's a soft proscuto.
You know how some of them can be a bit
leathery or a bit firm. This one's softer, and it's

(47:04):
a dop with very severe production guidelines, so you know
they can't monkey around with it. You know you're getting
the good stuff. I everywhere you go, Lemarque is famous
for trouffles, fish, everything. When you're in these coastal areas,
the seafood is outstanding. There's this other thing to look for.

(47:24):
It's called clesha and it looks like a pia so
pi are like almost like a peter looking bread that's
made into a sandwich. And this one looks like a
cross between flatbread and almost a pastry, and it's got
its own old texture and they'll make sandwiche things out
of that. It's fantastic. We ate Le Marque pizza, which

(47:49):
was different again from pizza that we've had elsewhere, and
it was fent I mean every day we were like, wow, okay,
like we get I'm gonna be like a bad one,
but there wasn't. Everything everywhere we ate was just wonderful.
Of course, it's Italy, so of course it has its
own specialty wines. There's some famous ones. There's a sparkling

(48:11):
red called Vernacca dere Sarah Petrona and it is the
only DOCG sparkling red in all of Italy. So it's
kind of cool, kind of different to try. It's great
with meals, it's great with like strong cheeses and the
giascolo spreadable of sausage going to she announces that wrong

(48:39):
and then they also in the reds. Some of the
more well known ones are Rosso di Carnero and Rosso Piceno,
which are multipiano grape based. And then we get to
the whites Mamma Mia game over. They're incredible if you
like crisp summary whites. So I mean, if I was

(49:03):
here in America, I would buy maybe a New Zealand Sauvi.
You know you got.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
That from New Zealand as well.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Like I'm not a Sharden egg girl. If they're offering sharden.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Ales, it's too much.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Yeah, but these Le Marque whites are incredible. So there's
one called Verdicio, and we were so Verdicio is a
must try. And then there's Verdicio di Metallica, which is
you know, from a special area there and it's I
guess you'd say it was a cidy because it gets

(49:40):
you a little kind of to it, but it's fresh
and minerally and like we would be drinking it. When
I say we were drinking it at the beach, You're
sitting there at the restaurant at the at your beach club,
and everything's set out beautifully and they bring you a
glass of wine with whatever fabulous fish extravaganza they're bringing you.
And we kept ordering the verdiciod Metallica and then the

(50:03):
weight would be like, oh, you know about this, but
it was just so good. It's a lovely, crisp, light
summary white. And then there's another one that's also in
that really crispy, refreshing white family called Paserina. And I
think we drank our weight, and I mean, like I

(50:25):
couldn't so I could have a glass of wine at
lunchtime because we weren't going to be driving back until
the end of the day. But then we would like
sit up on this beautiful terrace on our little castle
house on the hill, looking out over the water, and
we would drink Paserina, which is beautiful. And then there's
another one, Pecorino, which is another fabulous wine, but that

(50:46):
one is more for your shardonnay crowd. So if you
would normally order a chardonnay, you would probably love a Pecorino.
If you would normally go more to a Sauvignon or
a Vermentino or a Sonseer or any of those wines.
Fiano Fealangina, so he threw a French one in there
with us on there.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah, well, I do love a Pepcerino. I really like Peccerino.
I'll search that out if it's.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
On the list. I'm having it.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Oh good, I mean, and I'm not a win a phile.
I don't want to pretend that I know a lot
about wines because I don't. I know two things, I
like it or I don't know. But these were just
absolutely wonderful. And then my friend Luca, who he's the

(51:34):
driver on all of my Tuscany Umbria tours, but he's
also a Somalie and he's also one of my best
friends in the world. You know, he always wants to
know what wines I'm ordering and all that kind of
thing because that's his jam. And so when I was
just wowing out to oh, Luca, Luka look at these
wines in Lamarque, and he was thrilled. He's like, yeah,

(51:55):
Lamarque has incredible wines. So I mean, it's worth going
there just for the wines and the food. And it's
just an easy trip. And I think too that it's
very easy driving there, Like some places are complicated driving,
and you're kind of like, oh, like, I will not
I drive all over the country, but I will not

(52:16):
drive in Rome or Florence or Naples or Palermo. Forget
about it. It's not going to happen. And there's some
places where you're coming in and out of big cities
that take a lot of concentration not here. It's an
easy drive. So you can be someone that doesn't normally
rent a car and Italy and be quite comfortable. And

(52:39):
I found the roads weren't particularly packed either, really good
superstrata out of strata. You a really good highway that
goes straight up the coast, So every little town that
you can spot on a map that you want to
go see is going to be off this nice easy superstrata.
Like it's really I don't know, it was a really

(53:00):
easy trip, you know. I think for somebody coming to
Italy their first time, maybe it'd be a bit much
of an adventure going there, Like I would say, get
into Umbria and see some of that for something a
little bit different, because also I'm obsessed with like jumping
on the train and going to Pruja and do that
all the time. But especially if you're on your second

(53:23):
time round and you've hit the big spots. I think
most people get what ten fourteen days on their big
trip to Italy, and so it's a little bit more
difficult to allocate three or four days to go off
and be like, well, why do I want to go
on a beach vacation. Once you've been to one Italian beach,
you'd be like, oh yeah, I get it coming back

(53:43):
on that that second trip, and you're not needing to
hit all those big tourist attractions. And I'm not criticizing
them either, by the way, but I think this is
a really wonderful travel experience. And you could also you know,
you can do La Marque, drop down into a brook,
so dropped down into Pulia, and that's all that is

(54:04):
easy driving, it's all beautiful and you'll really just get
spoiled with medieval towns and then down at the beach,
you know, coastal views and outrageous food and you'll spend
five dollars. That's the other thing is that when you
go to these places, it's also inexpensive. You know, when

(54:25):
you're off the main tourist track, when you stop for
I talk about Paratifa all the time because it's my
favorite time of day. But you know, you order your
sprits or your glass of wine or whatever, and it
comes out with a platter of snacks and they're always fantastic,
so it's not chips and nuts. When you're in the busier,

(54:46):
more touristy places you get a bowl of chips and
that's kind of it. So you know, there's differences there,
but the cost of everything. I remember when we went
to the place that was up in the castle town
by us, where the bartender came out and asked us
if we'd been the beach the other day. When our
bill came, we thought it must be that much each.
We're like, no, no, no, no, this is the total,

(55:09):
and you know, you're thinking, how can this possibly be?
How can you have views like this? These warm, lovely,
kind people who were just fascinated and wanted to talk
to you, and people at the other tables wanted to
talk and hey, where are you from? Why are you here?
How did you find out about this place? And so
we made a million new friends, and you know, it

(55:31):
was borderline free. It cost us nothing, even the castle apartment,
this incredible apartment. It was split amongst two of us,
and I think the total for the week was something
ridiculous like nine hundred euros, so we each spent fifty
to be in this absolutely paradise. I mean, it was
so inexpensive, and you know, so that's another thing when

(55:52):
you're traveling on a budget, to be able to zip
out to some of these places and you know, big questioning,
how on earth can this possible be?

Speaker 3 (56:01):
It's just wonderful.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
So going back full circle, Karina, I think you know
we've just proven carpe dm sees today.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Go take your trip to Italy.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Go have an adventure, Go eat all the seafood, sit
by the beach, enjoy.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Oh it doesn't get any better than that, does it? Really?
And you know what an easy trip like.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
I can't believe that Askalipaccino is closer than Florence.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Amazing, Oh my gosh. And it's stunning. You walk in
like I really thought. I was pretty much prepared because
girlfriend here had done her research and I had a
list of the spots I wanted to see and all
these things I wanted to do. And we walked in
and so I was with my friend k so Ka
came on one of my tourists several years ago and

(56:47):
she's been back for more since. And actually she had
called me when I was booking this trip and she said,
what are you doing? And I said, oh, I'm looking
for a place to stay in the Marke. I'm going
to go to this region called them Mark and I'm
to have a beach vacation and she's like, ooh, can
I come.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
She's smart and we be like Kate.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
We had the best, best time and to be able
to go and do something like that, and it was
inexpensive and it was sensational. And the thing about these
experiences is you can't undo them. You can't unsee that beauty.
You can't undo that glorious humanity where people see you

(57:31):
and value you and want to interact with you. And
up and down this coast, up and down, like well,
we really got through half of the region and the
coastal side. I don't know. There's something so validating about
that too, when people are so lovely.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Delightful Karina.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
If anyone wants to connect with you, you do a
wonderful job on Instagram, I know, or read your books.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
How can they get in touch?

Speaker 4 (57:57):
My website is Coarinacook dot com and as everything from there,
you can click in and join the newsletter. I do
blog posts periodically, which my blog is also linked in
the website. On socials, I mostly do Instagram and I'm
at Karna Travels and you know, you can see all
these places that I go to and actually she scroll

(58:18):
down through my Instagram You'll get to see some of
these ridiculous places we went do in the market because
I was a maniac on Instagram while I was there.
Was so beautiful. The books are on Amazon and worldwide.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Thank you, Karina, so lovely to have you back on
the podcast telling everyone your stories and all of the
secret places that you found. You are an absolute marvel
at doing that and we love having you on the
show every single time.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
So come back soon and grat to me.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Katie,
Bye everyone, yao jao.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
Karina.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I just love her spirit of adventure and can do attitude.
She's had a lot of struggles in her life, but
she always manages to bring the joy and a spirit
of generosity that I respect with a passion. I can't
wait to head into the market for my first proper
visit in a few weeks to check out Urbino, and
of course I'll be sure to update you.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
All about that.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Needless to stay, we're cooking up a bit of a
plan for our tour guests and of course getting more.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
On the ground recommendations for our app.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
The team is putting the finishing touches on the Marque
section of our app right now, and I'm so proud
of that because you're not going to find a guide
book that includes detailed content on this region or neighboring Abutso,
which is where the person on my team, Cassie, who
is creating this content comes from and she lives there,
so you don't get much more local than that. So

(59:47):
if you're keen to explore the app and support this show,
go ahead and download it now. With the upgraded version,
you can access all the podcast episodes ad free, Plus
you can easily find episodes by region, top and more,
and when you have well over two hundred and seventy episodes,
it can be quite a challenge on some of the
standard podcast apps, and it works out to just over

(01:00:10):
one dollar US per episode currently and as it is
a one time fee, you know you're just going to
get more value as we continue to make more episodes.
Of course, as always, we've added all the places and
tips that Career shared, plus links to her best selling
glamor Tellia guide books, into the show notes at untold
Italy dot com. Forward slash two seven four for episode

(01:00:31):
number two hundred and seventy four Before you go we'd
really appreciate it if you could leave us a rating
or review. It's a small thing that makes a big
difference in helping more travelers find our show and bring
the voice of wonderful guest like Carina to the world.
Thanks again for listening. On our next episode, we're going
to find out what all the fuss is about the
beaches in Pulia. But until then, it's chow for now.

(01:00:56):
The Untoltalally podcast is an independent production podcast, edit, audio
production and website development by Mark Hatter. Production assistance and
content writing by the Are they kJ Clark?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Yes, there are two of us.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
For more information about Untold Italy, please visit untold Italy
dot com.

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