September 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Uncover the true secrets of the Cinque Terre with our friend, local food expert Enrica Monzani. Travel in this region of Italy has generally been defined by the landscapes and romantic villages clinging to cliffsides. But, in this epsiode, we uncover regional traditions, hiking tips, village identities, and the flavors of wine and olive oil. Travel Italy beyond the crowds and learn how to experience Cinque Terre like a local.
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The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke
Join us in the Cinque Terre and Liguria in 2026 - tour details
Read the full episode show notes here > untolditaly.com/292
NEW! - the Untold Italy app - access our entire podcast history ad free and searchable - DOWNLOAD FOR iOS • DOWNLOAD FOR ANDROID
The app is FREE to download and check out our Milan guide and general travel content. Upgrade to PREMIUM for a one time fee to access Rome, Florence, Venice, Sorrento, Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, Capri, Ischia, Tuscany, Lake Como, Lake Garda, Veneto, Lombardy, Campania, Lazio, Puglia, Abruzzo, Calabria, Umbria, Molise with much more to come
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Editorial Information
The Untold Italy travel podcast is an independent production. Podcast Editing, Audio Production and Website Development by Mark Hatter. Production Assistance and Content Writing by the other Katie Clarke
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Blessed with jaw dropping beauty, charming, colorful villages, hugging to
the cliffs, so very rough and ready sea. It's no
wonder visitors flock to the tiny hamlets of the Chinquitare
for the endless photo opportunities. But let's find out why
the Chinquaitea is all the more beautiful and compelling when
you linger beyond the photos and explore its traditions and culture.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Tawatuti and Benvenuti Tuan Told Italy the travel podcast to
where you go to the towns and villages, mountains and lakes,
hills and coastlines of Bella, Italia. Each week, your host
Katie Clark takes you on a journey in a search
of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato, and of course,
(00:48):
a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy
and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Do you dream of speaking Italian but feel stuck?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I hear you.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Whether you want to connect with your Italian heritage a.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Partner, or you want to live in Italy, finding the
right tools to match your learning style is important. My
friend Michelle from Intrepid Italian offers a practical approach to
learning Italian with her unique eighty twenty method, teaching you
only what you need to know. As an adult learner
herself with Italian heritage, she really knows how to bridge
the gap between English and Italian. As Angela from Australia said,
(01:35):
I put my inability to learn down to my senior
stage of life, but with Intrepid Italian, it seems to
just fit. To find out how Intrepid Italian can help
you learn Italian, and to claim an exclusive twenty dollars
coupon code that you can use on any of Michelle's
online courses from beginner to intermediate, visit Untold Italy dot com,
(01:56):
forward slash.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Italian or visit the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
As a bo you'll also get a downloadable travel phrase
guide absolutely free. So visit untold Italy dot com, forward
slash Italian to accelerate your Italian.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
C our friends. Hope you're well and dreaming of Italy.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's now a few months since I was there and
I'm starting to get some itchy feat but due to
family circumstances, it will be a while until i'm there,
so I've moved into virtual Italian mode. And here in
Australia where I live, we're lucky to have a wonderful
Italian film festival each year and it's just kicked off
last week. I saw the headline feature, which is called Diamonti,
(02:36):
which follows the story of creative women working at a
high end costume design house in Rome in the nineteen seventies.
It's an aesthetically beautiful movie with interesting characters and an
uplifting storyline. I find it hard to watch anything violent
or scary these days, so it was the perfect movie
for me and great for embedding some Italiano in my psyche.
(02:56):
It's definitely one to check out if you can get
it on streaming, but I have to say it was
lovely to watch it in the cinema with a glass
of prosecco. Today's guest is a creative Italian woman who
some of you have met before. If not, you want
to dive back into the episodes about Liguria.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
They are all easily.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Found on the Untold Italy app and delivered at free
there for your listening pleasure. Enrica Manzani is a cook,
food to a guide and author based in the city
of Genoa, the capital of the Liguria region, where the
villages of the Chinqueterre are found. It's been a good
long while since we chatted about this popular coastal area,
so I thought let's hear from a local about what
makes it special breathtaking views aside, ben to Nata, Welcome
(03:37):
back to the Untold Italy podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Henrica Choo, Katie, thank you for having me again. It's
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, it's so exciting to have you back at s
feet a little while and he you are beaming in
from beautiful Genoa. But I was curious. It's heading out
of summer there and things are cooling down. But did
you have a nice summer and did you go anywhere
lovely in Italy?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yes, I had a lovely summer, and every eleven years
so far i've been to Trentin Alto a digit so
I've been in the mountainside also because they live on
the seaside, so I need some green and some mountains
and some trees and woods. Yes, I went to Prentino,
close to Smartino di Castrozza, which is on the borders
(04:20):
with Veneto, and it's a very nice area of Plentino.
We fall in love with that place.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It is very beautiful around there.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I feel like you could get lost there for weeks
and not see too many people and just feel like
you're completely close to nature.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
If you find the right place. Yes, there is unfortunately
over tourism also in the mountainside, but there are still
many hidden places or fighter places, such the one where
I go, which is a dead hand valley, so there
are no highway ways or highways or very few car
and lots of walks and the tracks. So if you
(05:05):
look carefully, you can really disappear for a while and
dive into nature.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh that sounds lovely.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Sorry, Before we dive into the topic of today, which
we're going to talk about the can you remind everyone
maybe give everyone a little bit of an introduction to
yourself and who you are, what you do and yeah,
we would love to hear about you.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Thank you. Okay. My name is Rikamanzani. I'm a Ligurian
bored and brad so I was born in Geneva and
lived in Geneva in the last forty seven years. I'm
a home book and cookbook author. I can say gastronomical researchers,
so I do researchers in my region about food and products,
(05:57):
local food and products, lost recipes and soon and I'm
a food experience curator, so I organized food experiences maybe
for an international audience in Geneva and in the Guria.
So I organized food tours of Genova and Kamali which
is a tiny villegical support a fino. And then I
(06:19):
organized cooking classes in Genova in my tiny vintage kitchen.
Actually the best format are the market to table cooking class,
so we go to the market, to the shop and
then go home and cook and eat together on the terrace.
And among these things, I'm a certified wine taster and
recently I became an extra vaginally oiled so media and
(06:41):
the world of the extra virginally oiled it's fantastic, so
I really love it and something I would love to
diep into. That you can find me online as a
small kitchen in Gena, and that's my website where I
share a traditional recipe and food tips on Liguria in
(07:01):
Italian and in English. Then I have also a substock newsletter,
Taste of Liguria, where I share my food adventures when
I walk around the Liguria in search of interesting food
things to tell. And then Lastly, I have well. I
published a cookbook from Ligurian cuisine, which is called the
Ligurian Kucina The Flavors of Liguria, which is bilingual Italian
(07:25):
and English, and it's available in Europe and in the
United States. You can find it on So this is
quickly who I am and what I do.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
She's a very busy lady everyone, and she's very accomplished.
And what I love about you, Arika, is you a
prodigious learner? Are you always learning trying to learn new
things about your region? And this is a tiny little
region of Italy, It's quite small, but there's so much
more to know when you just keep going and going
(07:59):
and learning all different aspects of food and nature.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And yeah, it's really fantastic. And I'm so glad I
met you.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
He's a mom.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's all happening, all right. So let's start. Let's talk
about the chin Katari. And these are the beautiful villages
that really capture everyone's imagination. And it's something maybe that
we think of the Italian coast, we think of these
villages perched on the cliffs. So I'm really curious to
hear about those villages in that place from a local perspective.
(08:29):
Can you remember the first time that you visited the
chin Quatara.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yes, the first time I visited Chiwatara, I was twenty
years old, twenty two main probably, and I've been there
with a friend of mine who are two ladies, and
we decided to take this weekend off and we went
Tota by train. We stay in Vernazza, so we slept
in the Vernazza, which is one of the five villages,
(08:56):
and then we walk from Vera and the day after
we walk from vernaz to Monterroso with the famous renewed
Via de la Moore, which is the street that connects
these two villages. That was maiji because I really get
impressed by these villages. House just a perch on the mountains. Well,
(09:16):
the villages are on the sea, of course, but then
you have the cliffs just on your back and they
are very steep, and you have this wild nature in
between one village and the other. They are amazing. Also
for me that I usually live in the Gulcha I
live in I live in Genera, but it's a very
special region also for those who lives very close by.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So when you went there for the first time. It's
so interesting to me that you were twenties. So it's
not somewhere that people would go to visit, like you know,
as a family from Genoa.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's not a place that you would go.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
No, this is not a place very common for the
This is not a touristic for the people living in Genoa?
Is it?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because maybe there's in Monte Rosso there's a beach, but
maybe there's not so much of a beach or many
places to relax along that coast. It's more about hiking
and scenery and that type of thing.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, it's so interesting. And so how long did you stay?
Do you remember how long you stayed on that trip?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
This was just a weekend. Then I went there other times,
and curiously, I just let me think about that. I've
always been there with friends rather than with my husband
or my family. That was a kind of escape, a
lady escape. Can you say that for a couple of
days in a wonderful like paradise land? And it's so
(10:48):
close to one hour from Genera.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah it is. It's really close.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So it's very easy to get to by train from Genowa.
Isn't it just like straight down on that train line
so easy. This is what I love about Liguria. Very
easy to get around.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
At least on the coast. Yes, it's quite different if
you want to visit the inland yeh, because there need
you need a car and you need to drive.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You do need a car, and the driving it requires
some skills. I don't never want to do it again.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's one place where I'm like, no, I am not
driving there. But yeah, if we want to travel by train,
and I don't know a lot of our listeners do,
then it's a really beautiful region to do that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So when you were in the Chinkota, and I think
people have got this beautiful vision of these beautiful cliffs
and there's five chinquin, five villagers. I don't know how
people are in visiting it if they've never been there,
but it's they're very close together and you can get
very close to them. But they've all got the unique character,
(11:48):
don't they.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
The special thing of this land it's that it is
a vertical land. The mountains just clinged and go down deeply,
very steep on the sea. And so you have these
villages which nowadays are connected by train, so you can
move from one to the other in thirty seconds by
train to tunnels and you're there. But in the past,
(12:11):
these villages were separated by high mountains and so they
were not connected. They were not as we assume they
are now because now Chinkuoatea is a brand which was
made thirty forty years ago to help marketing the area.
But they have never considered themselves as a whole, so
(12:34):
they always been separated from each other, and they have
very different characteristics. Also, each village has its characteristic and
it's amazing because you have these really wild and nature
wild nature in between one village and the other, a
wild nature that has been tamed. Can I say tamed
(12:57):
by humans because you see all the terraces and the
stone walls which were made by man during the centuries
to take something out of this very hard land. It's
like I would say, it's like a mountainside on the sea.
It's like printin on the seas. It's a very green region,
(13:21):
very agricultural region. I think it is important to describe
properly Chinqua as it is nowadays and how it was
in the past.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, and I think it's very interesting also how yes,
men or the humans have tamed the land there, but
not in a destructive way. They've actually worked with nature
to cultivate their food and the way that they live
in a very conscious way that's symbiotic with nature. So
(13:52):
they haven't gone in with a big bulldozer and knocked
things down.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Time for a quick break shorter than you're more espresso.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
No, no, But the concepts of how the natured environment
was tamed by men was very conscious because they organized
the countryside layer so there is the woods on top,
then there are the olive groups and then closer to
the sea there are the vineyards. So there is a
(14:27):
project in doing that also according to altitude and nowadays
people who live and work in the land, they preserve
also the landscape, so the other one that keep the
environment nice and they keep it alive, and so it's
(14:47):
a land that has a symbiotic life with the man.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, it's I think when people go there and maybe
they go on a day trip and they're rushing through
the villagers, it's very hard to perhaps as in vision
that this is part of a bigger ecosystem. And yeah,
I think it's very important to stay overnight there because
you can then appreciate the rhythm of life and how
(15:14):
it goes with the seasons, and how it goes with
the day, the sunrise and the sunset. You can better
appreciate that these are separate places with separate identities. Walking
also right, because if you just travel by train or
by boat, you think, oh, it's really they're all very
close to each other.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
But in fact, if you had to walk it it
would take some time.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
But walking is very important because the tissue, the nets
in between these lands is made by paths by trains,
and there are one hundred and thirty kilometers of trades
in the Chinkwatata Park and so walking is essential. It
(15:58):
was in the past for connecting the lands. The village
is one with the other, and it's essential nowadays. If
you want to experience that area in the most authentic way,
you have to walk on the hills. So if you
want to discover Chinquatre, you have to go up and
you have to wear a pair of sneakers or something
(16:19):
even more proficient for walking. And then you have to.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Like, I mean, you don't need to be like a
super high car, but you know you do.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You need to be fairly fit.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
No, no, no, because there are there are actually trails
for any level, So there are rings that you can make.
There are tougher trails, of course, but you can find
any level of walking. And you when you walk in Chinquat,
especially because there is this altitude, different levels, you can
(16:53):
see different habitats and different landscapes. So you have the
vineyards and then you have the ali groups, and then
you walk in the woods, and you always have the
sea just below. So this is a very rich They
are always very rich walking because the landscapes are incredible
(17:14):
and changing every five minutes. If I have to say,
what's the best way to visiting walk?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, And I'm loving this conversation because I think when
we think about the Tincuitary, people want to go through
each of the villages and maybe describe what they're all about.
And they do all have their separate charms, and some
of them, I think people think about what they look like,
but I think it's really interesting to look at what
their specialties are.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
So in some villages they're more focused.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
On wine and growing grapes, and in other villages it's
not as much of a focus, is it.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
They have their own characteristic geographically and also historically, as
the wine making the I would say that it is
something that you can find all over the Five Lands,
because this is part of the really of the of
the landscape. Maybe there are some that where you can
see the vineyards more clinging on the sea, like Manarola
(18:14):
for example, where you actually sometimes they harvest the grapes
from the boats. So just to say how close vineyards
are on the sea. But this is something that is
very common, but it is true. They all have their
characteristic For example, that is Monterroso. Monterosi is the first
from Levanto to Tusk. Let's say, and Monterosso has a
(18:37):
beach and it is the only one who have a beach,
and so there are beach clubs and it's more flat,
and then from there you can walk to the others
which are tiny natural arbors. Then there is Cornelia. For example,
Cornelia is not on the sea. It's on the mountain side.
You can get there walking, hiking or by car from above,
(18:59):
but it's not on the inside. And then there are
also also the others, so each of them has a
special stature chart and also different characteristics. For example, in
the imaginary of people traveling to Chinqua Terra, since Chinkquatar
are villages on the sea. They thought the fishing is
an activity the people in Chinquatar, the locals are fishermen.
(19:23):
This is completely false. This is not true. It's not
true historically. Also because people of the Chinqua Terre were
mainly peasants. They live with agriculture, so they used to
enjoy the sea food like muscles, octopus, something that they
(19:46):
can grab from the rocks, so they were not they
were not fishermen. Also because the lens where they are
they are tiny, but for Monterroso, they are tiny natural
arbors where you cannot you cannot give shelter to a
bigger number of vatsels of boats, so you can keep
(20:06):
few boats there, but if there are storms, they are
in dangerous. And indeed the only village that developed some
kind of fishing activity is Montroso, because mont Rosso has
a beach where you can beach the boats when there
is a storm, and Montroso, as well as fishing is
renewed for fishing anchovies, they have this tradition of preserving
(20:30):
anchovies under salt. But again this was not the main
activities of mont Rosa as well, so most of the
time the fishermen of mont Rosa were also peasants, taking
care of the vineyards in the back and going to
fishing during the summertime but not during the winter time,
or try to integrate their family the family earnings with
(20:54):
some fishing, but there was also the countryside so fishing
and still now days fishing activity is probably one percent
of the economy of Chincotea. There probably there are two
or three fishermen living with the fair fishing activities, which
(21:16):
is very it's very strange compared to what is the imaginary.
There are a couple in Monterrosso and then there is
one fisherman in Cornelia which is a friend of mine.
We actually he's not living on fishing, just because he
also has a tiny restaurant on the countryside where he
(21:39):
sells the fish he have caught during the day the night.
And it is a nitty tourismo because it is a
place where like ugly tourism where you eat the products
of the countryside, itaty tourismas where you eat the products
of the fisherman, the catch of the day. And he's
living thanks also to this side activity, so fishing. It's
(22:02):
easy to market as one of the activities of chin Patata,
but it is not the main fie.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I mean, it makes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Sense when you think about it, because, as you say,
the geography is not very hospitable to boats coming in
and out, is it. It's very rocky and rough, and
the seas get very rough in winter, don't they true?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And also the Gurian Sea, as I always say, it's
not a very catchy sea, geographically ingredient sea is not catchy.
It's very very very deep, it's stormy, and so fishing
has never been a main activity in all the Gurian coasts,
even less in Chinquatara, where they have geographical barriers for
(22:49):
this kind of activity.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, so interesting, and I love the concept that you
described of people being farmers and being able to farm
the muscles, the cots, from the from the rocks, and
so they don't.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Have to go out to sea.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And of course the katz or the muscles are one
of the famous pictures of the area, and jointly with
the chores, So tell us a bit more about the anchovies.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Joined through with mussels and octopus, we have the anchovies.
So if you want, if you want to find a
food that is traditional in Chinquata, if you find in
restaurants centralvies. They are traditional. I don't know if they
actually wear catch in Chinquatar because, as I said, there
are very few fishermen, but the kind of food is
(23:34):
still traditional.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, so maybe so then because we're all thinking of seafood,
but it's not, you know, the traditional obvious thing that
they're doing there. So what are some of the other
dishes that they eat that are more related to the
land rather than the sea.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
The products related to the land, which is not eating
but it's drinking is wine because as you said, wine
making that you see it everywhere, and the wine making
where in the past the bones the foundation of the
trades of the life of Chinquatara. So wine making is
(24:14):
still an historical traditional activity and today they are trying
to renew and keep on these activities. So they are
opening new wineries, they are rescuing old vineyards. So there
is an intense work of making wine again and so
(24:37):
that is one of the most really local products that
you can find in Chicwatar, and it is made by locals,
which is important. So there are twenty thirty wineries in Chinquatara.
Thirty Now there are two big wineries, one is the
social winery where very tiny producers tell their grapes and
(24:58):
they make wine. Then there is another big winery Sassarini,
which is a big producers, and then the rest are
Chinese small producers that produce their wines. If you buy
a bottle of wine from Chinkota, and if you go
to Chicota and all the local wine in the restaurants,
you are really supporting the local activities and the local
(25:18):
the local people. In addition to wines and other local
products are lemons. You probably know lymon lemons from Monterosso
there are there are some lemon orchards in the area,
especially around mont Rosa, which is flatter and it is
typical of their making limoncino, which is practically the same
(25:40):
thing as limoncello. What do we call it limonchino? So
it's a spirit made with with lemons and alphala and sugar.
There is a production of extra vaginally oil with the
varieties of frontoo and lichino, which are two olive varieties
also very popular in Tuscany. They are not produced in
olive oil with Tajasca olives, which are the olives that
(26:03):
makes oil. In the west part of the Korea, and
the olive oil production is very small, but there are
some producers and lots of people make their own oil
for family consumption, so that is another thing that it
is produced. And then there is the production of honey.
For example, there are different producers because the only alchicat
(26:25):
is very good, especially with what we call mile fiori
made with a thousand of flowers. And this money is
very good because because of the different altitude that you
can find in Chimpotre, so the bees can suck flowers
of different altitudes and of different spices and varietism, and
(26:46):
so the honey that they make is complex and fragrans
and that is another product. Then the qualientrovies we have
already commended. The muscles and octopus are two traditional products.
Uh they come from Las Petia nowadays where they have
a farming of muscles. And then there are the octopus
(27:10):
for a follow they come from the from the general
markets of the nos are people who will actually sell
octopus for the for the restaurants there. So these are
the products. And then there are in the past where
the green gardens on the paces and they live for
with vegetables and tiny farm animals so that was the
(27:34):
traditional way of eating in Chinkatara.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Because you can't do mass production there, it's just impossible.
So you have to have small producers, which is really
lovely actually when you think about it, and you really
will struggle to find any wines or products outside of
the region, even in the Guria. I mean, the production
(27:58):
units are so small. Of the wine and olive oil,
does it stay normally in the region.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
When there are such a small production, Yes, they stay
in the region.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Let's take a quick break, both brief and back. Before
you know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
It, it's difficult to find elsewhere. Well for the oil,
novel there are big producers. For the wine, it's difficult
to find them elsewhere in Italy or abroad. As far
as sip wine, you have to think that the production
(28:33):
is four hundred thousands bottles a year, which is very
few amount and most of it is consumed locally, which
is good because the wine makers produce it and they
finish the bottles before the next harvesting. And therefore, if
you go to kinkot you must do dis a convenience
(28:55):
and do a tasting of local wine because this is
something you will not be able to safe as well,
so it's a unique experience. And the wines are of
grape quality.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And for the olive oil, do they have a local
press in one of the villages or do they have
one in each village.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
For the olive oil, for sure there are there is
a local preuss where they convey or the olives. I
don't know how many these are. Probably they are not
located in the tiny villages on the coast, but probably
they are in some village in the countryside. I don't
know how many there are there. But usually what happens
(29:33):
is that there is wine, meal, olive o and meal,
and the producer convey their olives to the same meal
and they had their oil produced. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I love these community spirit.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
They all get together and they make their wine together
and then they like the oil together.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And it's very simple, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
It's about surviving, really, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Like it it's most basic.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You know, you need to have certain things to survive,
and then the rhythm of life goes on about that survival,
you know, spending time together and doing those activities together.
But there's no I don't know, there's no rush to
you know, what we think we're going to do when
we go to the chink Potero, which is rush around
the villages and take a heap of photos. But actually,
(30:17):
if you take a step back and you look at
what's actually happening around, there are actually people just living
a life where they're making what they need and enjoying
the beautiful scenery around them.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
It's true for the few, for the few local still
living in the Chinca table. It's like this because we
have to We have also to say that there are
few hundreds of people living in the in these five villages.
If they are not wine makers, they most of them
work in the in the tourist industry.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So they have restaurants or they have Airbnb, they have both.
They give services ours, so they work in the tourism industry.
And because that is it is, to say, the main
source of income of that region.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So how would they maintain the character of their sense
of identity because I know it's super important for Italians,
that sense of place.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
It is super important. And before we had this interview,
I interview myself a couple of friends living in Chinkotata
because I want to because I do not live in Chinkotaa,
but I want the opinion of the people who live
there every day, all year long in those villages, and
what came out from talking to them is that their
(31:46):
sense of identity is getting harder and harder with the
increase of this master tourism, because they feel like they
are kind of disappearing also their identity and traditions, because
unfortunately the tourism in the nowadays these days is a
(32:08):
mass tourism of people that just stay one day and
they are not really interested in how people live, what
are the traditions, what's the real countries because as I said,
the countryside, not just the tiny villages, and so they
are they have an emergency of taking to their tradition
(32:32):
and staying together and keeping an identity. This is something
that they try to do. How well they try to
organize things together, So the institutions are not very useful
for this purpose. So there are some activities or things
(32:53):
that people organize people living in the countries, in the villages,
organized by themselves. For example, they organize every in Manarola.
My friend Yvonne, she's a so Milie and she has
a bar in Manerola, and she said that in Manarola
during the summertime, they organize a soccer tournament on the
(33:16):
church square where just locals can participate and they love
doing that. Then they organize also during summertime the so
called White Knight, where they have this party, everyone dressing
white and just the locals are invited to take part
of this party. And in Manarola there are two hundred
(33:38):
people living there and that in the last party there
were one hundred and eighty people participating, so almost all
the village was taking part to the party. And also
for example in Manarola they have the patron center is
San Lawrence and they have a procession and in the
past it was something organized by the authorities just sometimes
(34:03):
also for the marketing purpose. You know, in the last
three four years there were young people around thirty years
old that decided to make the procession like in Nolla days.
And so they have this statue of Saint Lawrence loaded
on the boat on the boat and the boat sailing
on the sea at night with all the candles, and
they play music and they read the poems. But this
(34:27):
is something that the people, local people do for themselves.
This is not a show. This is something that they
do for themselves because they really need to stick to
their traditions. And for example, there's another friend of mine, Brido,
the fisherman. I told you one of the few survived
fishermen is in Cornelia and his family they are ten.
(34:50):
He gives work for to ten people always in the
fishing and tourist industry and they take care of the
community with public assistance and they try to organize sport
activities for the kids. And he is also considering to
(35:10):
open a public oven. So his idea is to open
a public food oven as it was in the past,
because in the past it was like that. But the
meaning is that we do bread together. We also gather
baked bread, have a sip of wine and stay together
once a week, which is something that people do for
(35:31):
needs in the past. But he wants to do that
because the needing is not eating. The needing is making community.
And they really feel this need of being a community
and be proud of who they are. And then are
indeed young people coming back and decide to stay and
take care of the villages of the countryside of the vineyards.
(35:57):
If I have to give an advice to people who
go to chinkoatare, which is actually an advice that I
received from my friends I interviewed last days. It is
to connect with locals. If you travel to Chinkota, connect
with locals, make questions, be curious, try to know how
they live, what they do, what are the traditions, because
(36:20):
they are proud of their tradition. And if you get
them involved, they are happy of sharing rather than just
being in a picture, right, an Instagram picture, you know,
So the make it more human, the contact with the
people and with the locals, that's extremely important.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I think it's so important. And you know that.
I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And I noticed as well when I was last there
and I stay. We stay in Levanto, which is the
next village along from Monterrosso.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
It's not part of the Chinkoata as such. But when
you do.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Make the effort to go and speak to people, they're
so excited to tell you about what they're doing and
why they're doing it. And I think this is a
great example of how when people come together and they
want to do something together and spend time together and
make something better, you don't need to wait for a
government to do it for you or anything. And it's
(37:16):
probably you know, if you do, it's probably not going
to happen like this conversation is very interesting to me
because earlier this year I interviewed a journalist from CNN
who made a report on what's happening in Venice, and
again there it's the people that have just said, we
need to take things into our own hands. We need
(37:36):
to come together to fix this problem that we have,
this disconnection or this over tourism, and just try and
find a way to come together to make it a
better life for themselves and.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
For the area that they live in. I think it's
a great example.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Actually it's inspiring because if you can do that, I
mean literally millions of tourists go to that area every year,
and especially in the you know it's really peak season
now from April to end of October.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Right well, the peak season are July and August. June,
July and augusta they are peak season, and you have
lots of people, especially huge groups from the cruise ships
or for the from the buses who go many in
the villages rather than in the countryside.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
It's very busy.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
But I mean, because those villages are so small, it
feels busy at any time of year. Really, if there's
unless it's midwinter, I feel like it feels busy.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
So okay, well, Henrika, thank you for.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Taking us a little trip to the chink with It
is such a beautiful region, and I think it's even
more special when you learn about the traditions and the
culture and how people live in that area.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
See. So my suggestion is studying before going to Chinkotata.
Trust the LOCALTU visit Chipotata from the from the country side,
also from vote from the boat if you find the
local boat service and you have some local who introduce
to you the lens from the seaside. Also, that is
a very nice way of understanding the geography and the
(39:15):
story and drink wine.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
That's easy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Now, Enrica, if our listeners would like to explore more
of Liguria, how can I stay in contact with you?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Okay, they can stay in contact with me with my
newsletter Taste of Liguria. They can find it on the
Southstack and they can visit my website a small kitchen
in Jenna dot com and they find all the details
of what I do, what I write, and how to
get in contact with me.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So you can come on too with us next year
because Enrica is going to take us around the chin
putday together and we're very excited about that. We've only
got a few spots left on that trip actually, so
it's proving to be very popular. So if you're interested,
get in touch and we will make sure we get
(40:05):
you on.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
The list writing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So we actually we have got some guests that are
going back for their second time to Laguria because they
love it so much. And as most of our listeners know,
I do really, really really love Laguria.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's such an.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Interesting and I don't want to say I will say
it's an untold region outside of the Chincoteta, and not
many people know this area.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
And I would say, if you are.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
In Genoa or very very highly recommend Camollie because that
is an absolutely wonderful town that you should definitely look
up Enrica because she'll take you on a lovely trip
around the best eateries and Olivia. And I had the
pleasure of doing that a few years ago and it
was a great afternoon or morning, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I still think about that and I still tell people
about that amazing shop you took us too. She took it, actually,
she took us to quite a few amazing shops but
there is a.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Few that I that I really loved.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Anyway, it was a wonderful morning and I had a
great time. So Gratia and Rika, thank you for coming
on Unhold visually again. And it's always it a pleasure
to talk to you.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
It was a pleasure to me grat to get you Chao.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, what a treat to see the Chinquotree through Enrica's eyes.
Her passion for Laguria and dedication to offering a unique
perspective and keeping local traditions alive is something that I
truly admire. I always learned so much from chatting with her,
and I hope this conversation gave you a whole new
way of looking at the Chinquatre well beyond the gorgeous photos.
(41:36):
Like Enrica said, if you take the time to connect
with locals and slow down to appreciate the rhythm of life,
you'll be rewarded with a completely different travel experience, one
that's full of discovery, including local wines, stories, olive oil,
and maybe even a taste of that honey.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
She mentioned.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
We work with Enrica closely when creating our Chinquaiteta and
Beyond tour. It's so important to us that we engage
locals like her to bring you an experience that deliver
as you an insight into the beating heart of every
place that we visit. One of our favorite guests, Carolyn,
who's been on five trips with us already, has said
something to me in June that I probably don't mention
enough here, but it's important to note that our tour
(42:14):
experiences take you to the iconic places that you see
online in a different and unexpected way, avoiding the crowds
and getting to the heart of what really makes them special,
the culture, food, wine, and people that live there. If
you're interested in exploring more, you can stay in touch
with Enrica via her website, a small Kitchen in Genoa,
and her Taste of Liguria newsletter on substack, and if
(42:37):
you want to join us for next year's Tinquitte tour
with Enrica, check out all the details on our site.
Spots are feeling fast actually, so you want to be quick.
Of course, as always, you can find all the places
and helpful tips that Enrika shared, plus links to her
cookbook and newsletter in their show notes at untold Jali
dot com. Forward slash two nine two for episode number
(42:58):
two hundred and ninety two Groatzia mine. Thanks to our
wonderful listeners for your ongoing support of Untold Italy. I
hope you enjoyed today's show. If you did, then it
would be amazing if you gave us a rating or
review in your favorite podcast app like Spotify, where we're
nearly up to five hundred I think, which is exciting. Otherwise,
(43:19):
you might decide to support us by downloading our app
and upgrading to the premium ad free version, where you'll
find our podcast episodes, ad free and ow key rated
travel guides for places across Italy. On next week's episode,
we're taking you to another magical corner of the country.
But until then, it's chow for now. The Untold Italy
(43:39):
podcast is an independent production podcast editing, audio production and
website development by Mark Hatter, Production assistance and content writing
by the are they KG Clark?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yes, there are two of us.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
For more information about Untold Italy, please visit Untold Italy
dot com to
Blessed with jaw dropping beauty, charming, colorful villages, hugging to
the cliffs, so very rough and ready sea. It's no
wonder visitors flock to the tiny hamlets of the Chinquitare
for the endless photo opportunities. But let's find out why
the Chinquaitea is all the more beautiful and compelling when
you linger beyond the photos and explore its traditions and culture.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Tawatuti and Benvenuti Tuan Told Italy the travel podcast to
where you go to the towns and villages, mountains and lakes,
hills and coastlines of Bella, Italia. Each week, your host
Katie Clark takes you on a journey in a search
of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato, and of course,
(00:48):
a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy
and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Do you dream of speaking Italian but feel stuck?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
I hear you.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Whether you want to connect with your Italian heritage a.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Partner, or you want to live in Italy, finding the
right tools to match your learning style is important. My
friend Michelle from Intrepid Italian offers a practical approach to
learning Italian with her unique eighty twenty method, teaching you
only what you need to know. As an adult learner
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the gap between English and Italian. As Angela from Australia said,
(01:35):
I put my inability to learn down to my senior
stage of life, but with Intrepid Italian, it seems to
just fit. To find out how Intrepid Italian can help
you learn Italian, and to claim an exclusive twenty dollars
coupon code that you can use on any of Michelle's
online courses from beginner to intermediate, visit Untold Italy dot com,
(01:56):
forward slash.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Italian or visit the link in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
As a bo you'll also get a downloadable travel phrase
guide absolutely free. So visit untold Italy dot com, forward
slash Italian to accelerate your Italian.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
C our friends. Hope you're well and dreaming of Italy.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's now a few months since I was there and
I'm starting to get some itchy feat but due to
family circumstances, it will be a while until i'm there,
so I've moved into virtual Italian mode. And here in
Australia where I live, we're lucky to have a wonderful
Italian film festival each year and it's just kicked off
last week. I saw the headline feature, which is called Diamonti,
(02:36):
which follows the story of creative women working at a
high end costume design house in Rome in the nineteen seventies.
It's an aesthetically beautiful movie with interesting characters and an
uplifting storyline. I find it hard to watch anything violent
or scary these days, so it was the perfect movie
for me and great for embedding some Italiano in my psyche.
(02:56):
It's definitely one to check out if you can get
it on streaming, but I have to say it was
lovely to watch it in the cinema with a glass
of prosecco. Today's guest is a creative Italian woman who
some of you have met before. If not, you want
to dive back into the episodes about Liguria.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
They are all easily.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Found on the Untold Italy app and delivered at free
there for your listening pleasure. Enrica Manzani is a cook,
food to a guide and author based in the city
of Genoa, the capital of the Liguria region, where the
villages of the Chinqueterre are found. It's been a good
long while since we chatted about this popular coastal area,
so I thought let's hear from a local about what
makes it special breathtaking views aside, ben to Nata, Welcome
(03:37):
back to the Untold Italy podcast.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Henrica Choo, Katie, thank you for having me again. It's
a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, it's so exciting to have you back at s
feet a little while and he you are beaming in
from beautiful Genoa. But I was curious. It's heading out
of summer there and things are cooling down. But did
you have a nice summer and did you go anywhere
lovely in Italy?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yes, I had a lovely summer, and every eleven years
so far i've been to Trentin Alto a digit so
I've been in the mountainside also because they live on
the seaside, so I need some green and some mountains
and some trees and woods. Yes, I went to Prentino,
close to Smartino di Castrozza, which is on the borders
(04:20):
with Veneto, and it's a very nice area of Plentino.
We fall in love with that place.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It is very beautiful around there.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I feel like you could get lost there for weeks
and not see too many people and just feel like
you're completely close to nature.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
If you find the right place. Yes, there is unfortunately
over tourism also in the mountainside, but there are still
many hidden places or fighter places, such the one where
I go, which is a dead hand valley, so there
are no highway ways or highways or very few car
and lots of walks and the tracks. So if you
(05:05):
look carefully, you can really disappear for a while and
dive into nature.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Oh that sounds lovely.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Sorry, Before we dive into the topic of today, which
we're going to talk about the can you remind everyone
maybe give everyone a little bit of an introduction to
yourself and who you are, what you do and yeah,
we would love to hear about you.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Thank you. Okay. My name is Rikamanzani. I'm a Ligurian
bored and brad so I was born in Geneva and
lived in Geneva in the last forty seven years. I'm
a home book and cookbook author. I can say gastronomical researchers,
so I do researchers in my region about food and products,
(05:57):
local food and products, lost recipes and soon and I'm
a food experience curator, so I organized food experiences maybe
for an international audience in Geneva and in the Guria.
So I organized food tours of Genova and Kamali which
is a tiny villegical support a fino. And then I
(06:19):
organized cooking classes in Genova in my tiny vintage kitchen.
Actually the best format are the market to table cooking class,
so we go to the market, to the shop and
then go home and cook and eat together on the terrace.
And among these things, I'm a certified wine taster and
recently I became an extra vaginally oiled so media and
(06:41):
the world of the extra virginally oiled it's fantastic, so
I really love it and something I would love to
diep into. That you can find me online as a
small kitchen in Gena, and that's my website where I
share a traditional recipe and food tips on Liguria in
(07:01):
Italian and in English. Then I have also a substock newsletter,
Taste of Liguria, where I share my food adventures when
I walk around the Liguria in search of interesting food
things to tell. And then Lastly, I have well. I
published a cookbook from Ligurian cuisine, which is called the
Ligurian Kucina The Flavors of Liguria, which is bilingual Italian
(07:25):
and English, and it's available in Europe and in the
United States. You can find it on So this is
quickly who I am and what I do.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
She's a very busy lady everyone, and she's very accomplished.
And what I love about you, Arika, is you a
prodigious learner? Are you always learning trying to learn new
things about your region? And this is a tiny little
region of Italy, It's quite small, but there's so much
more to know when you just keep going and going
(07:59):
and learning all different aspects of food and nature.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And yeah, it's really fantastic. And I'm so glad I
met you.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
He's a mom.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It's all happening, all right. So let's start. Let's talk
about the chin Katari. And these are the beautiful villages
that really capture everyone's imagination. And it's something maybe that
we think of the Italian coast, we think of these
villages perched on the cliffs. So I'm really curious to
hear about those villages in that place from a local perspective.
(08:29):
Can you remember the first time that you visited the
chin Quatara.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Yes, the first time I visited Chiwatara, I was twenty
years old, twenty two main probably, and I've been there
with a friend of mine who are two ladies, and
we decided to take this weekend off and we went
Tota by train. We stay in Vernazza, so we slept
in the Vernazza, which is one of the five villages,
(08:56):
and then we walk from Vera and the day after
we walk from vernaz to Monterroso with the famous renewed
Via de la Moore, which is the street that connects
these two villages. That was maiji because I really get
impressed by these villages. House just a perch on the mountains. Well,
(09:16):
the villages are on the sea, of course, but then
you have the cliffs just on your back and they
are very steep, and you have this wild nature in
between one village and the other. They are amazing. Also
for me that I usually live in the Gulcha I
live in I live in Genera, but it's a very
special region also for those who lives very close by.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
So when you went there for the first time. It's
so interesting to me that you were twenties. So it's
not somewhere that people would go to visit, like you know,
as a family from Genoa.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
It's not a place that you would go.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
No, this is not a place very common for the
This is not a touristic for the people living in Genoa?
Is it?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Because maybe there's in Monte Rosso there's a beach, but
maybe there's not so much of a beach or many
places to relax along that coast. It's more about hiking
and scenery and that type of thing.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Yes, that's true.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, it's so interesting. And so how long did you stay?
Do you remember how long you stayed on that trip?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
This was just a weekend. Then I went there other times,
and curiously, I just let me think about that. I've
always been there with friends rather than with my husband
or my family. That was a kind of escape, a
lady escape. Can you say that for a couple of
days in a wonderful like paradise land? And it's so
(10:48):
close to one hour from Genera.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah it is. It's really close.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So it's very easy to get to by train from Genowa.
Isn't it just like straight down on that train line
so easy. This is what I love about Liguria. Very
easy to get around.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
At least on the coast. Yes, it's quite different if
you want to visit the inland yeh, because there need
you need a car and you need to drive.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You do need a car, and the driving it requires
some skills. I don't never want to do it again.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's one place where I'm like, no, I am not
driving there. But yeah, if we want to travel by train,
and I don't know a lot of our listeners do,
then it's a really beautiful region to do that.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
So when you were in the Chinkota, and I think
people have got this beautiful vision of these beautiful cliffs
and there's five chinquin, five villagers. I don't know how
people are in visiting it if they've never been there,
but it's they're very close together and you can get
very close to them. But they've all got the unique character,
(11:48):
don't they.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
The special thing of this land it's that it is
a vertical land. The mountains just clinged and go down deeply,
very steep on the sea. And so you have these
villages which nowadays are connected by train, so you can
move from one to the other in thirty seconds by
train to tunnels and you're there. But in the past,
(12:11):
these villages were separated by high mountains and so they
were not connected. They were not as we assume they
are now because now Chinkuoatea is a brand which was
made thirty forty years ago to help marketing the area.
But they have never considered themselves as a whole, so
(12:34):
they always been separated from each other, and they have
very different characteristics. Also, each village has its characteristic and
it's amazing because you have these really wild and nature
wild nature in between one village and the other, a
wild nature that has been tamed. Can I say tamed
(12:57):
by humans because you see all the terraces and the
stone walls which were made by man during the centuries
to take something out of this very hard land. It's
like I would say, it's like a mountainside on the sea.
It's like printin on the seas. It's a very green region,
(13:21):
very agricultural region. I think it is important to describe
properly Chinqua as it is nowadays and how it was
in the past.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, and I think it's very interesting also how yes,
men or the humans have tamed the land there, but
not in a destructive way. They've actually worked with nature
to cultivate their food and the way that they live
in a very conscious way that's symbiotic with nature. So
(13:52):
they haven't gone in with a big bulldozer and knocked
things down.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Time for a quick break shorter than you're more espresso.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
No, no, But the concepts of how the natured environment
was tamed by men was very conscious because they organized
the countryside layer so there is the woods on top,
then there are the olive groups and then closer to
the sea there are the vineyards. So there is a
(14:27):
project in doing that also according to altitude and nowadays
people who live and work in the land, they preserve
also the landscape, so the other one that keep the
environment nice and they keep it alive, and so it's
(14:47):
a land that has a symbiotic life with the man.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah, it's I think when people go there and maybe
they go on a day trip and they're rushing through
the villagers, it's very hard to perhaps as in vision
that this is part of a bigger ecosystem. And yeah,
I think it's very important to stay overnight there because
you can then appreciate the rhythm of life and how
(15:14):
it goes with the seasons, and how it goes with
the day, the sunrise and the sunset. You can better
appreciate that these are separate places with separate identities. Walking
also right, because if you just travel by train or
by boat, you think, oh, it's really they're all very
close to each other.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
But in fact, if you had to walk it it
would take some time.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
But walking is very important because the tissue, the nets
in between these lands is made by paths by trains,
and there are one hundred and thirty kilometers of trades
in the Chinkwatata Park and so walking is essential. It
(15:58):
was in the past for connecting the lands. The village
is one with the other, and it's essential nowadays. If
you want to experience that area in the most authentic way,
you have to walk on the hills. So if you
want to discover Chinquatre, you have to go up and
you have to wear a pair of sneakers or something
(16:19):
even more proficient for walking. And then you have to.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Like, I mean, you don't need to be like a
super high car, but you know you do.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
You need to be fairly fit.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
No, no, no, because there are there are actually trails
for any level, So there are rings that you can make.
There are tougher trails, of course, but you can find
any level of walking. And you when you walk in Chinquat,
especially because there is this altitude, different levels, you can
(16:53):
see different habitats and different landscapes. So you have the
vineyards and then you have the ali groups, and then
you walk in the woods, and you always have the
sea just below. So this is a very rich They
are always very rich walking because the landscapes are incredible
(17:14):
and changing every five minutes. If I have to say,
what's the best way to visiting walk?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, And I'm loving this conversation because I think when
we think about the Tincuitary, people want to go through
each of the villages and maybe describe what they're all about.
And they do all have their separate charms, and some
of them, I think people think about what they look like,
but I think it's really interesting to look at what
their specialties are.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
So in some villages they're more focused.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
On wine and growing grapes, and in other villages it's
not as much of a focus, is it.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
They have their own characteristic geographically and also historically, as
the wine making the I would say that it is
something that you can find all over the Five Lands,
because this is part of the really of the of
the landscape. Maybe there are some that where you can
see the vineyards more clinging on the sea, like Manarola
(18:14):
for example, where you actually sometimes they harvest the grapes
from the boats. So just to say how close vineyards
are on the sea. But this is something that is
very common, but it is true. They all have their
characteristic For example, that is Monterroso. Monterosi is the first
from Levanto to Tusk. Let's say, and Monterosso has a
(18:37):
beach and it is the only one who have a beach,
and so there are beach clubs and it's more flat,
and then from there you can walk to the others
which are tiny natural arbors. Then there is Cornelia. For example,
Cornelia is not on the sea. It's on the mountain side.
You can get there walking, hiking or by car from above,
(18:59):
but it's not on the inside. And then there are
also also the others, so each of them has a
special stature chart and also different characteristics. For example, in
the imaginary of people traveling to Chinqua Terra, since Chinkquatar
are villages on the sea. They thought the fishing is
an activity the people in Chinquatar, the locals are fishermen.
(19:23):
This is completely false. This is not true. It's not
true historically. Also because people of the Chinqua Terre were
mainly peasants. They live with agriculture, so they used to
enjoy the sea food like muscles, octopus, something that they
(19:46):
can grab from the rocks, so they were not they
were not fishermen. Also because the lens where they are
they are tiny, but for Monterroso, they are tiny natural
arbors where you cannot you cannot give shelter to a
bigger number of vatsels of boats, so you can keep
(20:06):
few boats there, but if there are storms, they are
in dangerous. And indeed the only village that developed some
kind of fishing activity is Montroso, because mont Rosso has
a beach where you can beach the boats when there
is a storm, and Montroso, as well as fishing is
renewed for fishing anchovies, they have this tradition of preserving
(20:30):
anchovies under salt. But again this was not the main
activities of mont Rosa as well, so most of the
time the fishermen of mont Rosa were also peasants, taking
care of the vineyards in the back and going to
fishing during the summertime but not during the winter time,
or try to integrate their family the family earnings with
(20:54):
some fishing, but there was also the countryside so fishing
and still now days fishing activity is probably one percent
of the economy of Chincotea. There probably there are two
or three fishermen living with the fair fishing activities, which
(21:16):
is very it's very strange compared to what is the imaginary.
There are a couple in Monterrosso and then there is
one fisherman in Cornelia which is a friend of mine.
We actually he's not living on fishing, just because he
also has a tiny restaurant on the countryside where he
(21:39):
sells the fish he have caught during the day the night.
And it is a nitty tourismo because it is a
place where like ugly tourism where you eat the products
of the countryside, itaty tourismas where you eat the products
of the fisherman, the catch of the day. And he's
living thanks also to this side activity, so fishing. It's
(22:02):
easy to market as one of the activities of chin Patata,
but it is not the main fie.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
I mean, it makes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Sense when you think about it, because, as you say,
the geography is not very hospitable to boats coming in
and out, is it. It's very rocky and rough, and
the seas get very rough in winter, don't they true?
Speaker 4 (22:25):
And also the Gurian Sea, as I always say, it's
not a very catchy sea, geographically ingredient sea is not catchy.
It's very very very deep, it's stormy, and so fishing
has never been a main activity in all the Gurian coasts,
even less in Chinquatara, where they have geographical barriers for
(22:49):
this kind of activity.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, so interesting, and I love the concept that you
described of people being farmers and being able to farm
the muscles, the cots, from the from the rocks, and
so they don't.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Have to go out to sea.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And of course the katz or the muscles are one
of the famous pictures of the area, and jointly with
the chores, So tell us a bit more about the anchovies.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Joined through with mussels and octopus, we have the anchovies.
So if you want, if you want to find a
food that is traditional in Chinquata, if you find in
restaurants centralvies. They are traditional. I don't know if they
actually wear catch in Chinquatar because, as I said, there
are very few fishermen, but the kind of food is
(23:34):
still traditional.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, so maybe so then because we're all thinking of seafood,
but it's not, you know, the traditional obvious thing that
they're doing there. So what are some of the other
dishes that they eat that are more related to the
land rather than the sea.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
The products related to the land, which is not eating
but it's drinking is wine because as you said, wine
making that you see it everywhere, and the wine making
where in the past the bones the foundation of the
trades of the life of Chinquatara. So wine making is
(24:14):
still an historical traditional activity and today they are trying
to renew and keep on these activities. So they are
opening new wineries, they are rescuing old vineyards. So there
is an intense work of making wine again and so
(24:37):
that is one of the most really local products that
you can find in Chicwatar, and it is made by locals,
which is important. So there are twenty thirty wineries in Chinquatara.
Thirty Now there are two big wineries, one is the
social winery where very tiny producers tell their grapes and
(24:58):
they make wine. Then there is another big winery Sassarini,
which is a big producers, and then the rest are
Chinese small producers that produce their wines. If you buy
a bottle of wine from Chinkota, and if you go
to Chicota and all the local wine in the restaurants,
you are really supporting the local activities and the local
(25:18):
the local people. In addition to wines and other local
products are lemons. You probably know lymon lemons from Monterosso
there are there are some lemon orchards in the area,
especially around mont Rosa, which is flatter and it is
typical of their making limoncino, which is practically the same
(25:40):
thing as limoncello. What do we call it limonchino? So
it's a spirit made with with lemons and alphala and sugar.
There is a production of extra vaginally oil with the
varieties of frontoo and lichino, which are two olive varieties
also very popular in Tuscany. They are not produced in
olive oil with Tajasca olives, which are the olives that
(26:03):
makes oil. In the west part of the Korea, and
the olive oil production is very small, but there are
some producers and lots of people make their own oil
for family consumption, so that is another thing that it
is produced. And then there is the production of honey.
For example, there are different producers because the only alchicat
(26:25):
is very good, especially with what we call mile fiori
made with a thousand of flowers. And this money is
very good because because of the different altitude that you
can find in Chimpotre, so the bees can suck flowers
of different altitudes and of different spices and varietism, and
(26:46):
so the honey that they make is complex and fragrans
and that is another product. Then the qualientrovies we have
already commended. The muscles and octopus are two traditional products.
Uh they come from Las Petia nowadays where they have
a farming of muscles. And then there are the octopus
(27:10):
for a follow they come from the from the general
markets of the nos are people who will actually sell
octopus for the for the restaurants there. So these are
the products. And then there are in the past where
the green gardens on the paces and they live for
with vegetables and tiny farm animals so that was the
(27:34):
traditional way of eating in Chinkatara.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Because you can't do mass production there, it's just impossible.
So you have to have small producers, which is really
lovely actually when you think about it, and you really
will struggle to find any wines or products outside of
the region, even in the Guria. I mean, the production
(27:58):
units are so small. Of the wine and olive oil,
does it stay normally in the region.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
When there are such a small production, Yes, they stay
in the region.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Let's take a quick break, both brief and back. Before
you know.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
It, it's difficult to find elsewhere. Well for the oil,
novel there are big producers. For the wine, it's difficult
to find them elsewhere in Italy or abroad. As far
as sip wine, you have to think that the production
(28:33):
is four hundred thousands bottles a year, which is very
few amount and most of it is consumed locally, which
is good because the wine makers produce it and they
finish the bottles before the next harvesting. And therefore, if
you go to kinkot you must do dis a convenience
(28:55):
and do a tasting of local wine because this is
something you will not be able to safe as well,
so it's a unique experience. And the wines are of
grape quality.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And for the olive oil, do they have a local
press in one of the villages or do they have
one in each village.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
For the olive oil, for sure there are there is
a local preuss where they convey or the olives. I
don't know how many these are. Probably they are not
located in the tiny villages on the coast, but probably
they are in some village in the countryside. I don't
know how many there are there. But usually what happens
(29:33):
is that there is wine, meal, olive o and meal,
and the producer convey their olives to the same meal
and they had their oil produced. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I love these community spirit.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
They all get together and they make their wine together
and then they like the oil together.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
And it's very simple, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
It's about surviving, really, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Like it it's most basic.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You know, you need to have certain things to survive,
and then the rhythm of life goes on about that survival,
you know, spending time together and doing those activities together.
But there's no I don't know, there's no rush to
you know, what we think we're going to do when
we go to the chink Potero, which is rush around
the villages and take a heap of photos. But actually,
(30:17):
if you take a step back and you look at
what's actually happening around, there are actually people just living
a life where they're making what they need and enjoying
the beautiful scenery around them.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
It's true for the few, for the few local still
living in the Chinca table. It's like this because we
have to We have also to say that there are
few hundreds of people living in the in these five villages.
If they are not wine makers, they most of them
work in the in the tourist industry.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
So they have restaurants or they have Airbnb, they have both.
They give services ours, so they work in the tourism industry.
And because that is it is, to say, the main
source of income of that region.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
So how would they maintain the character of their sense
of identity because I know it's super important for Italians,
that sense of place.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
It is super important. And before we had this interview,
I interview myself a couple of friends living in Chinkotata
because I want to because I do not live in Chinkotaa,
but I want the opinion of the people who live
there every day, all year long in those villages, and
what came out from talking to them is that their
(31:46):
sense of identity is getting harder and harder with the
increase of this master tourism, because they feel like they
are kind of disappearing also their identity and traditions, because
unfortunately the tourism in the nowadays these days is a
(32:08):
mass tourism of people that just stay one day and
they are not really interested in how people live, what
are the traditions, what's the real countries because as I said,
the countryside, not just the tiny villages, and so they
are they have an emergency of taking to their tradition
(32:32):
and staying together and keeping an identity. This is something
that they try to do. How well they try to
organize things together, So the institutions are not very useful
for this purpose. So there are some activities or things
(32:53):
that people organize people living in the countries, in the villages,
organized by themselves. For example, they organize every in Manarola.
My friend Yvonne, she's a so Milie and she has
a bar in Manerola, and she said that in Manarola
during the summertime, they organize a soccer tournament on the
(33:16):
church square where just locals can participate and they love
doing that. Then they organize also during summertime the so
called White Knight, where they have this party, everyone dressing
white and just the locals are invited to take part
of this party. And in Manarola there are two hundred
(33:38):
people living there and that in the last party there
were one hundred and eighty people participating, so almost all
the village was taking part to the party. And also
for example in Manarola they have the patron center is
San Lawrence and they have a procession and in the
past it was something organized by the authorities just sometimes
(34:03):
also for the marketing purpose. You know, in the last
three four years there were young people around thirty years
old that decided to make the procession like in Nolla days.
And so they have this statue of Saint Lawrence loaded
on the boat on the boat and the boat sailing
on the sea at night with all the candles, and
they play music and they read the poems. But this
(34:27):
is something that the people, local people do for themselves.
This is not a show. This is something that they
do for themselves because they really need to stick to
their traditions. And for example, there's another friend of mine, Brido,
the fisherman. I told you one of the few survived
fishermen is in Cornelia and his family they are ten.
(34:50):
He gives work for to ten people always in the
fishing and tourist industry and they take care of the
community with public assistance and they try to organize sport
activities for the kids. And he is also considering to
(35:10):
open a public oven. So his idea is to open
a public food oven as it was in the past,
because in the past it was like that. But the
meaning is that we do bread together. We also gather
baked bread, have a sip of wine and stay together
once a week, which is something that people do for
(35:31):
needs in the past. But he wants to do that
because the needing is not eating. The needing is making community.
And they really feel this need of being a community
and be proud of who they are. And then are
indeed young people coming back and decide to stay and
take care of the villages of the countryside of the vineyards.
(35:57):
If I have to give an advice to people who
go to chinkoatare, which is actually an advice that I
received from my friends I interviewed last days. It is
to connect with locals. If you travel to Chinkota, connect
with locals, make questions, be curious, try to know how
they live, what they do, what are the traditions, because
(36:20):
they are proud of their tradition. And if you get
them involved, they are happy of sharing rather than just
being in a picture, right, an Instagram picture, you know,
So the make it more human, the contact with the
people and with the locals, that's extremely important.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I think it's so important. And you know that.
I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And I noticed as well when I was last there
and I stay. We stay in Levanto, which is the
next village along from Monterrosso.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
It's not part of the Chinkoata as such. But when
you do.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Make the effort to go and speak to people, they're
so excited to tell you about what they're doing and
why they're doing it. And I think this is a
great example of how when people come together and they
want to do something together and spend time together and
make something better, you don't need to wait for a
government to do it for you or anything. And it's
(37:16):
probably you know, if you do, it's probably not going
to happen like this conversation is very interesting to me
because earlier this year I interviewed a journalist from CNN
who made a report on what's happening in Venice, and
again there it's the people that have just said, we
need to take things into our own hands. We need
(37:36):
to come together to fix this problem that we have,
this disconnection or this over tourism, and just try and
find a way to come together to make it a
better life for themselves and.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
For the area that they live in. I think it's
a great example.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Actually it's inspiring because if you can do that, I
mean literally millions of tourists go to that area every year,
and especially in the you know it's really peak season
now from April to end of October.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Right well, the peak season are July and August. June,
July and augusta they are peak season, and you have
lots of people, especially huge groups from the cruise ships
or for the from the buses who go many in
the villages rather than in the countryside.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
It's very busy.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
But I mean, because those villages are so small, it
feels busy at any time of year. Really, if there's
unless it's midwinter, I feel like it feels busy.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
So okay, well, Henrika, thank you for.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Taking us a little trip to the chink with It
is such a beautiful region, and I think it's even
more special when you learn about the traditions and the
culture and how people live in that area.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
See. So my suggestion is studying before going to Chinkotata.
Trust the LOCALTU visit Chipotata from the from the country side,
also from vote from the boat if you find the
local boat service and you have some local who introduce
to you the lens from the seaside. Also, that is
a very nice way of understanding the geography and the
(39:15):
story and drink wine.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
That's easy.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Now, Enrica, if our listeners would like to explore more
of Liguria, how can I stay in contact with you?
Speaker 4 (39:27):
Okay, they can stay in contact with me with my
newsletter Taste of Liguria. They can find it on the
Southstack and they can visit my website a small kitchen
in Jenna dot com and they find all the details
of what I do, what I write, and how to
get in contact with me.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So you can come on too with us next year
because Enrica is going to take us around the chin
putday together and we're very excited about that. We've only
got a few spots left on that trip actually, so
it's proving to be very popular. So if you're interested,
get in touch and we will make sure we get
(40:05):
you on.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
The list writing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
So we actually we have got some guests that are
going back for their second time to Laguria because they
love it so much. And as most of our listeners know,
I do really, really really love Laguria.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It's such an.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Interesting and I don't want to say I will say
it's an untold region outside of the Chincoteta, and not
many people know this area.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
And I would say, if you are.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
In Genoa or very very highly recommend Camollie because that
is an absolutely wonderful town that you should definitely look
up Enrica because she'll take you on a lovely trip
around the best eateries and Olivia. And I had the
pleasure of doing that a few years ago and it
was a great afternoon or morning, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I still think about that and I still tell people
about that amazing shop you took us too. She took it, actually,
she took us to quite a few amazing shops but
there is a.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Few that I that I really loved.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Anyway, it was a wonderful morning and I had a
great time. So Gratia and Rika, thank you for coming
on Unhold visually again. And it's always it a pleasure
to talk to you.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
It was a pleasure to me grat to get you Chao.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, what a treat to see the Chinquotree through Enrica's eyes.
Her passion for Laguria and dedication to offering a unique
perspective and keeping local traditions alive is something that I
truly admire. I always learned so much from chatting with her,
and I hope this conversation gave you a whole new
way of looking at the Chinquatre well beyond the gorgeous photos.
(41:36):
Like Enrica said, if you take the time to connect
with locals and slow down to appreciate the rhythm of life,
you'll be rewarded with a completely different travel experience, one
that's full of discovery, including local wines, stories, olive oil,
and maybe even a taste of that honey.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
She mentioned.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
We work with Enrica closely when creating our Chinquaiteta and
Beyond tour. It's so important to us that we engage
locals like her to bring you an experience that deliver
as you an insight into the beating heart of every
place that we visit. One of our favorite guests, Carolyn,
who's been on five trips with us already, has said
something to me in June that I probably don't mention
enough here, but it's important to note that our tour
(42:14):
experiences take you to the iconic places that you see
online in a different and unexpected way, avoiding the crowds
and getting to the heart of what really makes them special,
the culture, food, wine, and people that live there. If
you're interested in exploring more, you can stay in touch
with Enrica via her website, a small Kitchen in Genoa,
and her Taste of Liguria newsletter on substack, and if
(42:37):
you want to join us for next year's Tinquitte tour
with Enrica, check out all the details on our site.
Spots are feeling fast actually, so you want to be quick.
Of course, as always, you can find all the places
and helpful tips that Enrika shared, plus links to her
cookbook and newsletter in their show notes at untold Jali
dot com. Forward slash two nine two for episode number
(42:58):
two hundred and ninety two Groatzia mine. Thanks to our
wonderful listeners for your ongoing support of Untold Italy. I
hope you enjoyed today's show. If you did, then it
would be amazing if you gave us a rating or
review in your favorite podcast app like Spotify, where we're
nearly up to five hundred I think, which is exciting. Otherwise,
(43:19):
you might decide to support us by downloading our app
and upgrading to the premium ad free version, where you'll
find our podcast episodes, ad free and ow key rated
travel guides for places across Italy. On next week's episode,
we're taking you to another magical corner of the country.
But until then, it's chow for now. The Untold Italy
(43:39):
podcast is an independent production podcast editing, audio production and
website development by Mark Hatter, Production assistance and content writing
by the are they KG Clark?
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Yes, there are two of us.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
For more information about Untold Italy, please visit Untold Italy
dot com to
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