September 13, 2024 • 43 mins
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Hello, everybody. Stay tuned for another special Football Friday episode of A Matter of Principle.
Music.
Hello, everyone. My name is Vito Qualia, and this is A Matter of Principle. Today, our guest is Matt Bufano, someone who I've known for a long time in the sports world. When I was coaching back in the day, Matt was someone I talked to a lot. He was a sports reporter at that time and did a tremendous job covering local sports.
You know, this was a few years ago. So currently, he's working at Wyoming Seminary where his primary duties at this time are in athletics, communications, and photography. He also advises students in sports careers and yearbook clubs and is an assistant softball coach. Previously, he was a sports writer at the Citizen's Voice, and he hosted a local podcast of his own about NEPA sports stories. And he interviewed numerous local sports figures.
And we're going to talk about some of that currently in this podcast. So, you know, without further ado, let's welcome Matt Bufano to the podcast. Welcome, Matt.
Thank you very much, Vito. Appreciate the introduction.
Well, yeah, like I said, you know, you have a history in being someone who's covered local sports. And right now, something that you're doing currently, you're compiling this list of football players from Northeastern Pennsylvania and from the recent history and actually, you know, going way back to almost 100 years ago or more. And I thought it was really, really cool. Some of the names that you were bringing up are, you know, some names I recognize naturally and some I had no clue who these fellas were. So I wanted to get you on here so we could talk a little bit. You know, I'm a big local history buff, but also, you know, naturally a football fan myself. And I just wanted to hear some of the stories about, you know, some of these people that you've researched.
So are you up to it?
Oh my God, I'm glad that you care about it. Sometimes it can feel like you're shouting into the void when you get lost down these newspaper.com rabbit holes that people probably haven't read these news clippings in decades. Sometimes, like you said, over 100 years ago. But man, when I discover a person, a game, an event... That I find interesting. I just want to know everything about it. I know that we're going to talk football, but like one of the recent ones, a good recent, I haven't even shared this one on Twitter, and I think you'll appreciate this, is Christy Mathewson, right? Hall of Fame baseball pitcher. He learned his famous screwball pitch from a guy named Dave Williams when they were playing for, I think, a Honesdale semi-pro baseball team. Dave Williams had a cup of coffee in the majors, Christy Mathewson, obviously had a legendary career. And this Dave Williams guy, he's buried in Dunmore Cemetery up in Lackawanna County. And I think he's largely forgotten about by basically everybody except hardcore Christy Mathewson scholars. And, you know, so when I find a guy like that, or some of the ones that I'm sure we'll talk about today, man, I just want to remember them, give them their proper due, introduce them to new people. I mean, they're being introduced to me, so I feel like, you know, I wouldn't say it's an obligation, but it's a privilege to be able to share their stories with a new generation.
Absolutely. And, you know, currently, you know, with people who are playing, you know, sports, athletes today, you know, they have the advantage of, you know, social media and information being pumped out everywhere, you know, immediately when someone comes up or, you know, makes a pro team, makes a roster, or their bio and pictures from their past and their Instagram, their TikTok. All that stuff is out there right now. So fans get to really understand their stories, not just maybe their current college or high school careers, but they find out who their family is and everything else in a bl
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, everybody. Stay tuned for another special Football Friday episode of A Matter of Principle.
Music.
Hello, everyone. My name is Vito Qualia, and this is A Matter of Principle.
(00:21):
Today, our guest is Matt Bufano, someone who I've known for a long time in the sports world.
When I was coaching back in the day, Matt was someone I talked to a lot.
He was a sports reporter at that time and did a tremendous job covering local sports.
You know, this was a few years ago. So currently he's working at Wyoming Seminary
where his primary duties at this time are in athletics, communications, and photography.
(00:42):
He also advises students in sports careers and yearbook clubs and is an assistant softball coach.
Previously, he was a sports writer at the Citizen's Voice, and he hosted a local
podcast of his own about NEPA sports stories.
And he interviewed numerous local sports figures. years. And we're going to
talk about some of that currently in this podcast.
So, you know, without further ado, let's welcome Matt Bufano to the podcast. Welcome, Matt.
(01:06):
Thank you very much, Vito. Appreciate the introduction.
Well, yeah, like I said, you know, you have a history in being someone who's covered local sports.
And right now, something that you're doing currently, you're compiling this
list of football players from Northeastern Pennsylvania and from the recent
history and actually, you know, going way back to almost 100 years ago or more.
(01:27):
And I thought it was really, really cool. Some of the names that you were bringing
up are, you know, some names I recognize naturally and some I had no clue who these fellas were.
So I wanted to get you on here so we could talk a little bit.
You know, I'm a big local history buff, but also, you know, naturally a football fan myself.
And I just wanted to hear some of the stories about, you know,
(01:47):
some of these people that you've researched. So So are you up to it?
Oh my God, I'm glad that you care about it.
Sometimes it can feel like you're shouting into the void when you get lost down
these newspaper.com rabbit holes that people probably haven't read these news clippings in decades.
Sometimes, like you said, over 100 years ago.
(02:09):
But man, when I discover a person, a game, an event...
That I find interesting. I just want to know everything about it.
I know that we're going to talk football, but like one of the recent ones,
a good recent, I haven't even shared this one on Twitter, and I think you'll
appreciate this, is Christy Mathewson, right? Hall of Fame baseball pitcher.
(02:31):
He learned his famous screwball pitch from a guy named Dave Williams when they
were playing for, I think, a Honesdale semi-pro baseball team.
Dave Williams had a cup of coffee in the majors, Christy Mathewson,
obviously had a legendary career.
And this Dave Williams guy, he's buried in Dunmore Cemetery up in Lackawanna County.
(02:52):
And I think he's largely forgotten about by basically everybody except hardcore
Christy Mathewson scholars.
And, you know, so when I find a guy like that, or some of the ones that I'm
sure we'll talk about today, man, I just want to remember them,
give them their proper due, introduce them to new people.
I mean, they're They're being introduced to me, so I feel like,
(03:14):
you know, I wouldn't say it's an obligation, but it's a privilege to be able
to share their stories with a new generation.
Absolutely. And, you know, currently, you know, with people who are playing,
you know, sports, athletes today, you know, they have the advantage of,
you know, social media and information being pumped out everywhere,
(03:35):
you know, immediately when someone comes up or, you know, makes a pro team,
makes a roster, or their bio and pictures from their past and their Instagram, their TikTok.
All that stuff is out there right now. So fans get to really understand their
stories, not just maybe their current college or high school careers,
but they find out who their family is and everything else in a blink.
(03:57):
Where, like you said, some of these people that have played previously didn't
have that advantage, and their stories are buried.
Just like they're buried in these local cemeteries. some of the great things they accomplished.
And even some of the cool things that you talk about are not just the athletic
accomplishments, but then the accomplishments that they made outside of sports,
you know, after they were done with their playing days and whatnot.
(04:18):
So they're really cool things. And like I said, I completely share that,
you know, it's a privilege to talk about some of these people and to share their
stories with anybody who wants to listen.
So, again, who knows if there's two people listening to us or,
you know, 2,200 people listening to us, but, you know, they're going to get
some of these cool stories.
So, you know, there's, there's one thing we're going to, I'm going to find this
and we're going to have another podcast about this, but there is a paper that I found, um.
(04:45):
Decades ago when I was in college at Wilkes and it was actually,
I was at King's college researching something and I found some 20 page paper
that someone had written who was an LCC student and it had to do with local high school football.
And, and I took it, it was, it was in the reference section somewhere.
And I took it, I photocopied the whole thing and I have it somewhere in a manila
(05:08):
folder somewhere in my house because you know, I'm a pack rat and I have,
It's probably not labeled correctly,
but whoever did this 30 or 40 years ago, you know, talked about all the,
like the immense popularity of high school football and NEPA and,
you know, how, you know, back in the day before all the jointures,
you know, you had your Kingston High School and all the other regional high
schools and they, you know, when they would play their Thanksgiving games,
(05:30):
you know, 8,000 to 10,000 people would show up and, you know,
the whole story of a lot of the local players that, you know,
escaped the coal mines by,
you know, getting involved in sports and things like that. So I will find that, Matthew.
I will find that and we will discuss it. I'll give credit to whoever wrote it.
But again, that was something that sparked an interest in me because I was a
college kid when I picked that up.
(05:50):
And I'm like, wow, there's so much more to these athletes from NEPA that I even know.
So that's kind of where all this stuff is coming from. So without me rambling
on forever, let's jump to some of these fellas that you talked about.
Now, the first one I'm going to mention is someone who I'd never heard of before,
before I read it on your Twitter.
(06:10):
And this is, I think it's McKay, George McKay, M-C-C-A-A.
Am I saying that right? Or is it McCaw? How do you say that?
McCaw, yeah. I've been saying McCaw, M-C-C-A-A.
I don't think anyone's going to correct us. No, probably not.
But whatever it is, McKay or McCaw, the important thing is we're remembering him, right?
(06:30):
Sure. So tell me a little bit about him and tell the listeners about him.
Well, what I think is interesting about him, so he went to Lafayette and he held the NCAA record.
He might actually still hold the NCAA record for a 110-yard run from scrimmage in 1909, maybe.
(06:54):
110 yards run from scrimmage.
Now the field is only 100 yards. That changed in 1912. So I think he still holds
that record, whether it's recognized or not.
But George McCaughy was a two-time All-American at Lafayette and very well thought of.
He was, man, I think he was a Wilkes-Barre area graduate.
(07:17):
I mean, he was a Wilkes-Barre native. I know that. And then he went on to live
in Pittsburgh in his later years.
But he was an All-American, halfback, and fullback at Lafayette.
And he was basically considered the George Gipp of Lafayette.
People know what George Gipp is to Notre Dame.
That is what people thought of him at Lafayette.
And he was an All-American, a two-time All-American.
(07:39):
And he does not own the distinction of being the first All-American.
We'll probably talk about some of those guys, the original. But certainly one
of the premier players of his days.
Again, Wilkes-Barre High School, Wilkes-Barre Public Schools,
and graduated from Lafayette in 1910.
And, yeah, just an outstanding football player of his time.
(08:02):
And, again, we're talking about, say, 1910.
You realize, wow, that's more than 100 years ago that we're talking about these
guys. And some of the records and some of the stories, you know,
that are going to be attributed to them are things that, you know,
people aren't going to be able to replicate.
Like, you know, the listeners will find out by, you know, the way you explain some of these things.
Now, how about, well, here's someone who's, you know, closer to where you work
(08:26):
currently at Seminary, but Jim Royer.
Tell us a little bit about Jim Royer.
I love this one. I love this one because as you said earlier,
I advise a club at Wyoming Seminary called the Sports Careers Club.
And sort of the aim of the club, we have a lot of different goals,
but one of them is to educate students that sports is big business and you don't have to be a player.
(08:51):
You don't necessarily have to be a coach to live your whole life in sports.
And Jim Royer, so I'm kind of getting ahead of myself, but to kind of set it
up, he graduated from Wyoming Seminary in the 1950s at a time when Wyoming Seminary
had an arrangement with Navy,
and Navy sent a lot of its promising high school football players to prep at
(09:13):
Wyoming Seminary for a year or two, get their grades up, whatever it was.
And that arrangement was actually terminated while Jim Royer was in school in the 1950s.
But he played for a Navy team, Jim Royer did, with Lon Ron Beagle,
who was a Maxwell Award winner at the position of end from Wyoming Seminary.
OK, Ron Beagle, Wyoming Seminary grad. We got Jim Royer. He was a lineman.
(09:38):
He was the biggest player on Navy at the time, also from Sem.
The quarterback was George Welsh, another Wyoming Seminary graduate.
George Welsh, listeners, especially if you like college football,
might know him. He's a former Virginia coach.
And Jim Royer, so that 1954 team, Navy also had Joe Gattuso.
(10:01):
Off the top of my head, I'm forgetting exactly where he went to school.
I think it was Wyoming Seminary as well. He was the Sugar Bowl MVP.
And so this Navy team was like the team of the Wyoming Valley,
or at least the Wyoming Seminary.
But what I said about how you could make a career in sports,
(10:21):
when Jim Royer graduated from Navy.
He knew that he wanted to remain involved in sports, but he didn't quite have
the talent to play professionally.
So he became a scout. He became a college scout.
He eventually became, I want to say, a defensive line coach,
worked with a couple NFL teams.
And he worked for over 20 years as the director of player personnel for the New York Jets.
(10:49):
And he's one of these guys, unfortunately, like so many of the other ones we'll
talk about, he died a number of years ago.
But man, I would love to sit down and to have had a conversation with him,
like just let the recorder go.
Because there was one story actually that I think this has a name that everyone recognizes.
(11:11):
But when he was an assistant coach with the New Orleans Saints.
Bill Belichick actually got stranded in New Orleans.
This was reported in a Bill Belichick book at some point.
Belichick was out partying with friends, ran out of money, and he called his dad.
Belichick called his dad, you know, Dad, do you know anybody in New Orleans?
(11:34):
What could I do here? And Belichick's dad called Jim Royer.
Jim Royer took Bill Belichick and all his college
buddies in the friends you know probably had
a nightcap but as the story goes belichick and
jim royer stayed up all night talking football and obviously bill belichick
goes on to become one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game just
(11:57):
hearing a story like that it just kind of gives me goosebumps it's like we gotta
we gotta commemorate guys like this absolutely yeah that's That's awesome.
That 1950s Navy team, unreal.
And, you know, there's so many – there's a bunch of the guys I'm going to bring
up that have that seminary connection.
So, you know, the first two that we talked about, well, you referenced there,
(12:19):
and there's going to be a couple more.
But now the next one I'm going to bring up isn't a seminary guy,
but a Hazleton guy who I believe came back into the area and coached for a little bit, John Yacino.
Am I saying that right? Is it Yacino? Yeah. Yeah, 1950.
50, basically the same era as Jim Royer.
(12:40):
Now, he was, I believe he came back and coached.
Was he coaching at Hazleton after they joined up with the jointure in the last 20 years?
Did he come back? I'm not 100% sure. I believe so. It was in the 1990s he came back to coach.
He coached in Western Pennsylvania, and he coached in Texas,
(13:02):
and he had a lot of success. You know, reading some of the news clippings by
a couple of my friends now in the Hazelton sports media, you know,
they covered him coming home.
I mean, it was a big homecoming when he came home to coach.
I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Somebody out there is probably screaming
at the radio. He was great.
You know, I couldn't tell you too much about his coaching career at Hazelton.
(13:26):
But, you know, we're talking about, you know, their college glory days, really.
And Johnny Sino played at Pitt in the 1960s.
And as an individual, I think he was pretty good. He was a defensive back.
He was a running back. There was an occasion or two when he was the player of the game for Pitt.
(13:46):
But, man, you look at that Pitt schedule. Pitt played a killer schedule.
1961. I'm looking at it right here.
1961, Pitt had three wins, okay?
They only won three games at Miami, home against Navy, and home against USC.
So they were good enough to beat three darn good programs.
(14:09):
So just imagine the losses, you know, Notre Dame, Penn State,
at Washington, and so on.
But yeah, John Ucino really contributed to a legacy of just outstanding local
players who went to Pitt. You know, I'm saying this as a Penn State man.
We probably won't even talk too much about Penn State in this episode because
(14:32):
a lot of, not all, but a lot of the great Penn State players from the Valley are modern-ish era.
Jimmy Cefalo really kicked that thing off.
Although, like I said, there are examples of others before then.
But man, the great pit coach of the 1920s and 30s, Jock Sutherland,
(14:53):
he recognized that the Wyoming Valley was fertile ground for great college football players.
He got guys like Joe Scladani out of Larksville High School.
He's in the College Football Hall of Fame.
Joe Donchus from Wyoming Seminary, he's in the College Football Hall of Fame.
Eddie Baker from Nanticoke High School.
So you see, he wasn't just recruiting Jock Sutherland.
(15:15):
He wasn't just recruiting Wyoming Seminary. He definitely had an in with Wyoming
Seminary, but he was recruiting the whole Wyoming Valley.
And now John Encino.
Kind of came on the back end of all that. Jock Sutherland was not the coach
when John Yacino was at Pitt.
But, you know, just another extension of that great Pitt legacy in the Wyoming Valley.
(15:36):
Next guy I want to bring up is George, I believe from 44th, if I jotted it down
correctly, George Young, who I believe was a 42 graduate of 44th.
That's right. Is that right there?
Yep. P.I.A. Heavyweight state champion wrestler. Kessler, man,
again, we talk about these newspapers.com rabbit holes.
(15:58):
There was this in-depth article, I think it was in the Cleveland Plain Dealer,
that was written in the late 1940s or early 1950s, and it had such outstanding detail.
It had quotes from him, which was not really something you would see in a lot
of articles around that time, but it had quotes from him about his parents dying young,
(16:22):
that he and his sister often shared a can of beans for dinner,
that he had a throat infection and a thigh injury that basically derailed his football career.
And against all odds, the doctors thought that his career was over.
He went on to play like seven or eight years in the NFL.
(16:43):
And he's forever connected with this guy named Harold Catron,
I think that's how you pronounce it.
I think the last name is spelled K-A-T-R-O-N.
And Harold Catron was the University of Georgia letterman from the early 20th
century who worked for the Coca-Cola bottling company.
(17:04):
He settled down in Wilkes-Barre and he was, you know, in today's terms,
a booster for the University of Georgia.
And he helped a lot of of great Wyoming Valley guys go to the University of
Georgia, including Charlie Trippi, Joe Taraschinski.
Those are names that people might know. But George Young, man,
what an inspirational story.
(17:26):
And let me set the scene for you here. I thought maybe we'd talk about George Young.
So I did a little bit of extra research last night.
Now, let me set the scene for our listeners here. This is February 27th, 1946.
More than 300 people, including the entire Forty Fort High School football team,
(17:50):
attends a dinner at the Forty Fort Methodist Church.
Like something out of a movie here. You got the school band that's playing miniature
gold footballs are handed from adults to these high school players.
And the principal speaker is Wallace Butts, who at that time had won Orange
and Rose Bowls as head football coach at the University of Georgia.
(18:12):
He was on the precipice of winning a national championship at the end of 1946.
So this is like February 1946. By the end of the year, he was a national champion.
And what brought Butts, Wally Butts, to 44th was Harold Catrone,
you know, who recruited all these Wilkes-Barre area players to the University
of Georgia, including George Young.
(18:33):
You know, I think that he didn't have a great college career, not to speak out to him.
I don't think he had a great college career because it was interrupted by military service.
And, you know, Now, like I said, he had some really tough luck injuries,
but he was able to turn it around and had a great career with the Cleveland Browns.
If you look at the roster of the Cleveland Browns in the late 40s,
(18:56):
early 50s, I mean, he played with giants of the game of football,
people whose names are still remembered today, whose names are on trophies.
So yeah, that's the story George Young owed to be a fly on the wall at that
40 Fort Methodist Church dinner in 1948.
Forty-six, I'm sorry. Well, and, you know, some of the guys that we're going
(19:18):
to talk about, you know, during this episode are west side guys,
west side of the Valley, whether it's, you know, Kingston, Forty,
Fort Larksville, you know, even, you know, connections to Sem and whatnot.
And, you know, today, currently, that would be, you know, Wyoming Valley West.
So back in the day, all these regional high schools were, you know,
their own entities, but they all had tremendous athletes, you know,
and tremendously successful programs.
(19:40):
So it's, you know, then when they all kind of joined together,
it was always a, you know, when is Valley West going to be this juggernaut,
this, you know, massive program because so many of the individual little schools
were so powerful, you know, at the time.
And it just, it took a little while for Valley West to kind of get things going,
to get everything to mesh together.
So, you know, in that vein, somebody from Larksville from the 30s,
(20:03):
I think, and forgive me if I say his name wrong, but Joe Van Jura,
correct? Correct. Is that the correct pronunciation there, Mr.
Vangera? Right. Hey, your guess is as good as mine. We're just reading these names at this point.
But yeah, Joe Vangera, V-A-N space J-U-R-A.
Like you mentioned, Larksville High School backup center in the 1936-37 when
(20:29):
Fordham had the famous seven blocks of granite.
I mean, he played alongside just, again, giants of the game of college football.
Ed Franco, Vince Lombardi, Alex Wojciechowicz, I think it's pronounced.
I could have that wrong. And they were coached by Jim Crowley,
one of the four horsemen of Notre Dame who lived much of his adult life in Scranton.
(20:53):
And we're talking about burials. I always like to reference these.
He's buried up in Moscow in Lackawanna County.
And what a kind of surreal experience, Vito, when I saw the eternal resting
place of a guy like Jim Crowley.
And he's been dead for obviously quite a while.
And I think there was a Notre Dame flag on the grave, and it was well attended to and everything.
(21:18):
But man, just picture, and who has visited this grave over the years?
Who stood here the day that he was buried?
Worried i think that jim crowley was the last of the four horsemen to survive you know so.
But but anyway jim jim crowley i know we're talking
about joe van jura but you know really joe van jura's claim to fame in college
(21:41):
football was that he was a backup center so he was not one of the seven blocks
of granite you know maybe at some point there was a nickname for those backups
because if you got seven blocks of granite and you got like three or four backups
you know chips or I don't know.
But Jim Crowley, you know, we're talking about him. His contributions to the
(22:02):
game are just staggering.
He coached Fordham during its heyday, won a couple bowl games,
had Fordham ranked in the top 10 a couple times, and actually helped the Heisman
Trophy sculpture come to life.
Now, NYU's Ed Smith was the original model, but then the sculptor asked Jim
(22:25):
Crowley to revise it and make it look more realistic.
So then Crowley and one of his players went out on the field together and Crowley
posed the guy, you know, have your hip here until they got it just right.
Right. And there are photos of this, actually.
There are photos of Jim Crowley directing the original sculpture.
(22:47):
Well, not the original, the revised sculpture of the Heisman Trophy.
And Jim Crowley is certainly celebrated up in Scranton's way.
He's not a forgotten about guy. I think there's a park named after him.
But I feel like we could never do enough to remind people, to remind the next generation,
(23:09):
you know, that these giants came from where we're from. You know, have some civic pride.
This is incredible, in my opinion. And I know you agree with that.
Well, and, you know, arguably the biggest sporting event, you know,
in America, if not now, you know, globally, there's more presence of it,
(23:31):
you know, with the games being played in different countries.
But, I mean, NFL football, American football is a – you know,
it's an economic juggernaut, right?
It's – the money generated by the games and the merchandise and just everything,
you know, all the TV contracts. And it's crazy.
It's like, you know, it's monopoly money. It doesn't even make sense how much
money gets thrown around.
(23:51):
But all of those things would not be possible with, like, the kind of guys we're
talking about here, you know. And they played –.
If they did get a chance at the NFL or a chance at professional sports,
it was usually some of these guys from the 30s, 40s, or beyond.
It might have been just a little cup of coffee somewhere here or there.
And maybe they didn't have a long storied career, but they were the building
(24:13):
blocks as well of all the stuff that's happening today.
So if it wasn't for the Joe Venturas and naturally the Jim Crowleys and whatnot,
a little bit more of a historic figure. But all these little guys,
you know, quote, unquote, are the ones that built what's going on today.
So I always wonder, these guys, you know, signed their multimillion-dollar contracts.
(24:35):
I hope they understand all the guys that came before them as well because that's,
you know, if not for them, all the, you know, economic success that Dak Prescott
just signed for and all of his buddies, you know, wouldn't be possible.
And especially in the college game, too, now with NIL. I don't think you had
Greg Skripnak on a couple of weeks ago and certainly he would have been an NIL,
(24:59):
you know, recipient, but how about like Rocket Ismail?
What would Rocket Ismail be making in college football today?
Absolutely. Right. I mean, just, just imagine some of the, some of the guys
who came up and, and probably, you know, in the eighties and nineties when,
you know, like, you know, Deion Sanders,
like what would he have, you know, Bosworth, guys like that that were just all
(25:20):
over every national magazine and every, You know, that was, it was just coming
of age there where they were really throwing their names around and,
you know, they, they probably look back and just like, man, I missed it by a
couple of decades or, you know, and they could have been set if regardless,
like in case of Boz, you know, he didn't really pan out in the pros,
but he could have made so much money just in college that he wouldn't have needed a pro contract. Right.
(25:41):
Right yeah all right well let's go
back into yesteryear again we're kind of jumping all
around which is good this i love this kind of stuff that's fine by me there's a
person that i you know i again so many of
these guys i'm bringing up i didn't know of so it's all
history lesson to me but what i
have right here bob is it bob nanny yeah bob
(26:02):
nanny tell us about bob nanny oh man
I feel like I have the most personal connection
with Bob Nanny I couldn't tell you when this whole
you know interest in local college football stars started I mean it's just something
that's kind of been with me since I discovered newspapers.com and since I've
(26:25):
always loved local sports and sports history but man I feel like Bob Nanny was
one of the first people a couple years years ago,
who I really went down into the rabbit hole with him because it's a really tragic story.
Bob Nanny was from Pittston and his parents were Italian immigrants.
(26:47):
And he went to St. John's, the Evangelist High School, and he played there for
two years. And he's very good.
He actually played on an undefeated team that up until a few years ago was still
written about pretty regularly in publications like the Sunday Dispatch,
like Remember When, the undefeated 1937 St. John's Evangelist team.
(27:07):
But he ultimately went to Wyoming Seminary as a lot of these really good players
did because some had the connections to get them to the next level.
And so Bob Nanny, again, he's two years at St.
John's, the evangelist, goes to Wyoming Seminary, has a very good career at
Wyoming Seminary, but he certainly was not like one of those Navy guys that
(27:30):
we're talking about, right?
Who's clearly a blue chipper. He was just a really solid player.
And for whatever reason, again, these are these stories that are lost to time
and we'll never know why, but for whatever reason, he had his heart set on Duke.
And he went down to Duke University without a scholarship offer,
(27:51):
without any promise of getting playing time.
And he ultimately made
the freshman team as a
freshman i think he might have even been a freshman captain or
at least a starter on the freshman team played in
the 1941 rose bowl made all southern conference at least one or two years after
(28:13):
that and then he went overseas to serve in 1944 and at the same time okay at
the same time that he was overseas he's getting word that he's drafted into
the NFL by the Chicago Cardinals,
a very late pick, but a draft pick nonetheless,
and that he made all conference.
And so he's over there serving his time and he was killed on Iwo Jima in 1945, just 26 years old.
(28:40):
And we have a building at Wyoming Seminary, Sprague Hall, it's kind of our main academic building.
And we have a plaque, a large plaque that honors the war dead.
And man, whether you're having the best day or the worst day.
I just feel like it's a real opportunity to center yourself and appreciate the
(29:03):
privilege that it is to be at this school in this country, have the freedoms that we have.
Bob Nanny, man, that is just a story that never, ever goes away for me.
Actually, a couple months ago, because I'm on this mission to find out everything
I possibly can about Bob Nanny, I tracked down probably his closest next to kin,
(29:26):
a guy named Bob Nanny, who was named for him, was a nephew.
And it was great to talk to him. We must have talked for a half hour,
at least maybe an hour. And we were just kind of,
and repeating a lot of the same stories back and forth to each other.
And I appreciated the heck out of that because there are not many people that
(29:47):
know the stories about him that have been public that are reported,
but nobody really taken the time to read about him.
But, you know, he didn't really have additional details.
Like there was no lost journal or, you know, a banker's box of old,
you know, memoirs or something to help tell his story. So we're left to our
(30:09):
imagination remembering him.
But and one of the things about him, too, he had a really nasty temper on the football field.
And there was an instance that was reported in the Duke school newspaper where
he got penalized for something like 35 yards in a row, like 10 yard penalty,
10 yard penalty, five yard penalty, just an onslaught of penalty yards.
(30:33):
And he ended up writing a letter to, was it Eddie Cameron?
I think it was Eddie Cameron, the coach of Duke at the time.
And he wrote this letter that Duke published just a few years ago in remembrance
of World War II, a letter where Bob Nanny basically says, hey,
coach, I was an idiot back then.
(30:55):
I wish I understood what you were trying to teach me. I was too hot headed and so on.
And, you know, he was he was someone that was really growing and maturing and
probably had an amazing life ahead of him and unfortunately never came to pass.
So, you know, that's just a story that really sticks with me.
(31:16):
Well and and i think you know that that's
hitting on something i'd like to do in a future episode with you is
just talk about you know a collection of
of guys of athletes who you know had their careers cut short by by serving you
know overseas especially during world war ii i think as as we get older and
time passes so many of those of those fellas from that greatest generation are
(31:39):
all gone they're i don't know how many there has to be a miniscule number of fellas that are still
even around that served at that time.
But, you know, we could do our part to make sure that no one,
you know, forgets them because there's so – again, he's a classic tale of,
you know, what could have happened.
You have a great athlete that goes over, you know, pays the ultimate sacrifice
in, you know, serving and giving up his life.
(32:01):
But, you know, if he did survive and come back, you know, what could have been?
And so many of the guys who did, you know, serve and did come back and,
you know, talk about Ted Williams and baseball and, you know,
different fellows all over the place.
But, yeah, that would be cool. And I know you probably have a list of those
guys just sitting there waiting to talk about just people that were from the
Valley that served and didn't get a chance to fulfill their athletic dreams.
(32:24):
But we could talk about that. I think that would be really cool. That would be.
Another fellow, I think this is another, I was writing all this stuff down and
I didn't realize there were so many Wyoming Seminary people that I was putting,
which is good for you because you probably, you know a lot about them.
But what could you tell us about, I think it's Gutendorf. Is it Vince Gutendorf?
(32:48):
Oh, Vince Gutendorf. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, Vince Gutendorf. Well, you know what? Very funny. I mentioned earlier
that Jim Royer was someone who I talked to my students about today.
I talked to them also about Vince Gutendorf.
He was at Wyoming Seminary. I don't have the notes in front of me,
so I'm going to say a 1939 graduate of Sem.
(33:13):
And he went on to Columbia. I believe he played quarterback at Columbia.
And this was back when Ivy League football was a big deal. And then he came
back to Northeastern Pennsylvania. He was from Wilkes-Barre.
He came back to Northeastern Pennsylvania and he was like the public,
like the PR director of sorts for most of the professional major and minor league
(33:37):
sports teams that we had in Northeastern Pennsylvania from the 40s through the 60s.
You know, there's pictures of him with like Joe DiMaggio when DiMaggio was coming
through Scranton and he was feted at all these great events.
And yeah, Vince Gutendorf, that's a good one.
Now, you mentioned at the beginning, and I didn't jump on it,
(33:58):
I should have jumped on it when you mentioned it, but you talked about,
I think, someone who was one of the original All-Americans, or I don't know
if you had the name or not.
I wanted to circle back to that. Was there somebody there, or was that not a
name that we didn't mention yet? Oh, yeah.
Alfred E. Bull, you know, Al Bull.
He's another one who, you know.
(34:20):
So he played in the 19th century.
So if you've never heard of Al Bull, you're forgiven. Certainly.
However, man, if one person comes away from this interview, you know,
talking about Al Bull to their friends and saying that Al Bull is one of the
greatest players, however, if you never heard of Al Bull, then my job here is done.
(34:43):
But yeah, Al Bull was born in Wilkes-Barre, attended Wyoming Seminary.
And like you said, this is not like Wyoming Seminary PR.
It's just that Wyoming Seminary was that good at football back in the early days.
So Al Bull, he was a consensus All-American center in 1895.
(35:03):
And here's the cool twist to that story, right?
Is that he was an All-American with Charles Gelbert, who was from Hawley and
attended Scranton Public Schools.
Now, keep in mind, this is the important thing to remember here.
The sport only had two selectors and 11 spots total for All-Americans in 1895.
(35:26):
So it's not like today where you have Phil Steele, Lindy's, Athlon,
Sporting News, ESPN, Associated Press.
No, you had two selectors for All-America and they didn't.
Pick offense and defense. They just picked the 11 best players. And Al Bull was on there.
And Charles Gelber was on there. So two of the 11 best players in all of college
(35:50):
football were from Northeastern Pennsylvania in the 1890s.
But that UPenn team in 1895, if you looked up the scores of those games,
you would think that it is the greatest team in the history of college football.
They went 14-0, outscored opponents.
Man, a ridiculous margin. They only gave up 24 points all year.
(36:13):
14 of them were against Harvard.
And they played nine games in four weeks.
This is just how you played football back in the 1890s. Nine games in four weeks.
And then Bull went on to coach a few teams, including Iowa in 1896.
So again, he made All All-America, 1895, college playing career ended,
(36:35):
and then immediately was coaching Iowa. Like, yeah, Big Ten Iowa.
And, you know, talking again about Al Bull, and so he's so great.
You know, it's a shame he's not in the College Football Hall of Fame.
After everything I said there, you know, All-American, consensus All-American
on one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport at a time when only
(36:56):
11 players made All-America,
coached for a number of years like i said he started at iowa but then i'm actually
going to google real quick just to look this up then he coached at franklin
and marshall georgetown lafayette,
muhlenberg i mean he spent over 10 15 years as a head coach on top of what he
(37:18):
did in playing and you know what at this point i'll probably never make the
college football hall of fame.
Because i don't think anybody's banging the drum for old al ball except for
me but no but But that's the thing.
If nothing else, hopefully someone, you know, out there in listening land will
remember the name Al Bull.
Because I tell you, before I saw, you know, your reference to him,
I did not know who he was. I did not know his story.
(37:41):
You know, and honestly, I think I knew one name of the 10 or so fellas that
we mentioned, you know, during this episode so far.
So, and for me, it's fun.
And like I said, what I'm trying to set up with this is hopefully a series of
episodes with you, Matt, where we kind of delve into, you know,
maybe 10 or so guys at a clip and, you know, and, and tell their stories.
(38:02):
Cause I think this is really, really cool. And it's fun for me.
Like I said, it's my podcast, so I'm having you on. So that's, that's a good thing.
But one thing I'm going to make a left turn before we wrap up and talk about,
you know, you brought up baseball at the beginning, I'll bring up basketball,
something I want you to do.
I did a little research on it, but my grandfather, by the name of John Burns,
(38:24):
played in the 30s – 20s or 30s, actually –,
In Wilkes-Barre, St. Mary's was a basketball team that played or was supposed to play in Chicago.
They were like a powerhouse Catholic school basketball team back in the day.
And we traveled out to the Midwest to play in some tournament of other Catholic high schools.
(38:48):
And I think I found a couple articles.
I think it was newspaper.com in reference to that team. But they were a well-known,
you know, really, again, at the time, it was a different kind of game.
And, you know, they weren't scoring 100 points and all that stuff.
And probably the tallest guy might have been 6'2". You know,
it was definitely a different game, you know, back in the 20s and 30s.
But I want to try to find some information on that team because I do know it's
(39:12):
a local team from the Valley that was nationally regarded.
And, you know, I think either went out to play in the national championship tournament.
I don't know if it ever happened. happen i couldn't find
the finals of that but again saint mary's
which you know saint mary saint nick's became saint nick's and then you know
bishop hoban and all that stuff you know as the years progressed but saint mary's
(39:34):
high school back in the day so that'll be our that's your homework for the next
episode we'll talk about that good homework and you know as as we're talking
about homework you know people might not know you were actually the principal of wyoming area.
When I was at Wyoming area, I'm a proud warrior.
And some of my students got a kick out of that, you know, that I'm being interviewed
by my former high school principal, you know, this full circle moment.
(39:58):
Yes. The circle of life. It just makes me very old. Makes me feel even older, Matt.
Thanks for that. I appreciate that. But no, it is.
And it's, you know, again, when you get to be around, the cool thing about being
around for as long as I have is you get.
An opportunity to kind of build this network of
of you know friends and colleagues and former people they
worked with or you you know had in your school as a principal or
(40:19):
or sports reporters you talk to when you're a coach things like that and you
can call on them and kind of you know talk about things like this which you
know this is exactly why i set this whole podcast up to talk about you know
school sports and leadership and and all the stories interconnected you know
in and around nep and i'm having a blast doing it and all the guests so far
have been you know so much fun.
You're going to be a recurring guest on this show because there's going to be
(40:42):
so many cool things we get to talk about so I am going to wrap it up because
I wanted to hit about 10 guys and we did, I think we hit a little bit more and
I don't want to make this a two hour podcast I want to make it something that people can digest,
and leave them wishing for more so we will have,
more with Matt Pafano and again it will be talking about not just football players,
(41:04):
some of the greats from the past but we're all going to branch out and some
other sports as well and celebrate some of the athletes from Northeastern Pennsylvania
because the last thing that neither one of us want to see is their stories be forgotten.
So we're going to do our best to celebrate and highlight.
And Matt, I thank you so much for coming on and giving us an opportunity to
(41:25):
chat. It's been a lot of fun.
I agree. I thank you for the platform to talk about some of these stories.
Anytime I get to give these guys, like we said earlier, their proper due and
remembrance, man, that's a good day. Absolutely. Well, thank you again.
Music.
Hello, everybody. Stay tuned for another special Football Friday episode of A Matter of Principle.
Music.
Hello, everyone. My name is Vito Qualia, and this is A Matter of Principle.
(00:21):
Today, our guest is Matt Bufano, someone who I've known for a long time in the sports world.
When I was coaching back in the day, Matt was someone I talked to a lot.
He was a sports reporter at that time and did a tremendous job covering local sports.
You know, this was a few years ago. So currently he's working at Wyoming Seminary
where his primary duties at this time are in athletics, communications, and photography.
(00:42):
He also advises students in sports careers and yearbook clubs and is an assistant softball coach.
Previously, he was a sports writer at the Citizen's Voice, and he hosted a local
podcast of his own about NEPA sports stories.
And he interviewed numerous local sports figures. years. And we're going to
talk about some of that currently in this podcast.
So, you know, without further ado, let's welcome Matt Bufano to the podcast. Welcome, Matt.
(01:06):
Thank you very much, Vito. Appreciate the introduction.
Well, yeah, like I said, you know, you have a history in being someone who's covered local sports.
And right now, something that you're doing currently, you're compiling this
list of football players from Northeastern Pennsylvania and from the recent
history and actually, you know, going way back to almost 100 years ago or more.
(01:27):
And I thought it was really, really cool. Some of the names that you were bringing
up are, you know, some names I recognize naturally and some I had no clue who these fellas were.
So I wanted to get you on here so we could talk a little bit.
You know, I'm a big local history buff, but also, you know, naturally a football fan myself.
And I just wanted to hear some of the stories about, you know,
(01:47):
some of these people that you've researched. So So are you up to it?
Oh my God, I'm glad that you care about it.
Sometimes it can feel like you're shouting into the void when you get lost down
these newspaper.com rabbit holes that people probably haven't read these news clippings in decades.
Sometimes, like you said, over 100 years ago.
(02:09):
But man, when I discover a person, a game, an event...
That I find interesting. I just want to know everything about it.
I know that we're going to talk football, but like one of the recent ones,
a good recent, I haven't even shared this one on Twitter, and I think you'll
appreciate this, is Christy Mathewson, right? Hall of Fame baseball pitcher.
(02:31):
He learned his famous screwball pitch from a guy named Dave Williams when they
were playing for, I think, a Honesdale semi-pro baseball team.
Dave Williams had a cup of coffee in the majors, Christy Mathewson,
obviously had a legendary career.
And this Dave Williams guy, he's buried in Dunmore Cemetery up in Lackawanna County.
(02:52):
And I think he's largely forgotten about by basically everybody except hardcore
Christy Mathewson scholars.
And, you know, so when I find a guy like that, or some of the ones that I'm
sure we'll talk about today, man, I just want to remember them,
give them their proper due, introduce them to new people.
I mean, they're They're being introduced to me, so I feel like,
(03:14):
you know, I wouldn't say it's an obligation, but it's a privilege to be able
to share their stories with a new generation.
Absolutely. And, you know, currently, you know, with people who are playing,
you know, sports, athletes today, you know, they have the advantage of,
you know, social media and information being pumped out everywhere,
(03:35):
you know, immediately when someone comes up or, you know, makes a pro team,
makes a roster, or their bio and pictures from their past and their Instagram, their TikTok.
All that stuff is out there right now. So fans get to really understand their
stories, not just maybe their current college or high school careers,
but they find out who their family is and everything else in a blink.
(03:57):
Where, like you said, some of these people that have played previously didn't
have that advantage, and their stories are buried.
Just like they're buried in these local cemeteries. some of the great things they accomplished.
And even some of the cool things that you talk about are not just the athletic
accomplishments, but then the accomplishments that they made outside of sports,
you know, after they were done with their playing days and whatnot.
(04:18):
So they're really cool things. And like I said, I completely share that,
you know, it's a privilege to talk about some of these people and to share their
stories with anybody who wants to listen.
So, again, who knows if there's two people listening to us or,
you know, 2,200 people listening to us, but, you know, they're going to get
some of these cool stories.
So, you know, there's, there's one thing we're going to, I'm going to find this
and we're going to have another podcast about this, but there is a paper that I found, um.
(04:45):
Decades ago when I was in college at Wilkes and it was actually,
I was at King's college researching something and I found some 20 page paper
that someone had written who was an LCC student and it had to do with local high school football.
And, and I took it, it was, it was in the reference section somewhere.
And I took it, I photocopied the whole thing and I have it somewhere in a manila
(05:08):
folder somewhere in my house because you know, I'm a pack rat and I have,
It's probably not labeled correctly,
but whoever did this 30 or 40 years ago, you know, talked about all the,
like the immense popularity of high school football and NEPA and,
you know, how, you know, back in the day before all the jointures,
you know, you had your Kingston High School and all the other regional high
schools and they, you know, when they would play their Thanksgiving games,
(05:30):
you know, 8,000 to 10,000 people would show up and, you know,
the whole story of a lot of the local players that, you know,
escaped the coal mines by,
you know, getting involved in sports and things like that. So I will find that, Matthew.
I will find that and we will discuss it. I'll give credit to whoever wrote it.
But again, that was something that sparked an interest in me because I was a
college kid when I picked that up.
(05:50):
And I'm like, wow, there's so much more to these athletes from NEPA that I even know.
So that's kind of where all this stuff is coming from. So without me rambling
on forever, let's jump to some of these fellas that you talked about.
Now, the first one I'm going to mention is someone who I'd never heard of before,
before I read it on your Twitter.
(06:10):
And this is, I think it's McKay, George McKay, M-C-C-A-A.
Am I saying that right? Or is it McCaw? How do you say that?
McCaw, yeah. I've been saying McCaw, M-C-C-A-A.
I don't think anyone's going to correct us. No, probably not.
But whatever it is, McKay or McCaw, the important thing is we're remembering him, right?
(06:30):
Sure. So tell me a little bit about him and tell the listeners about him.
Well, what I think is interesting about him, so he went to Lafayette and he held the NCAA record.
He might actually still hold the NCAA record for a 110-yard run from scrimmage in 1909, maybe.
(06:54):
110 yards run from scrimmage.
Now the field is only 100 yards. That changed in 1912. So I think he still holds
that record, whether it's recognized or not.
But George McCaughy was a two-time All-American at Lafayette and very well thought of.
He was, man, I think he was a Wilkes-Barre area graduate.
(07:17):
I mean, he was a Wilkes-Barre native. I know that. And then he went on to live
in Pittsburgh in his later years.
But he was an All-American, halfback, and fullback at Lafayette.
And he was basically considered the George Gipp of Lafayette.
People know what George Gipp is to Notre Dame.
That is what people thought of him at Lafayette.
And he was an All-American, a two-time All-American.
(07:39):
And he does not own the distinction of being the first All-American.
We'll probably talk about some of those guys, the original. But certainly one
of the premier players of his days.
Again, Wilkes-Barre High School, Wilkes-Barre Public Schools,
and graduated from Lafayette in 1910.
And, yeah, just an outstanding football player of his time.
(08:02):
And, again, we're talking about, say, 1910.
You realize, wow, that's more than 100 years ago that we're talking about these
guys. And some of the records and some of the stories, you know,
that are going to be attributed to them are things that, you know,
people aren't going to be able to replicate.
Like, you know, the listeners will find out by, you know, the way you explain some of these things.
Now, how about, well, here's someone who's, you know, closer to where you work
(08:26):
currently at Seminary, but Jim Royer.
Tell us a little bit about Jim Royer.
I love this one. I love this one because as you said earlier,
I advise a club at Wyoming Seminary called the Sports Careers Club.
And sort of the aim of the club, we have a lot of different goals,
but one of them is to educate students that sports is big business and you don't have to be a player.
(08:51):
You don't necessarily have to be a coach to live your whole life in sports.
And Jim Royer, so I'm kind of getting ahead of myself, but to kind of set it
up, he graduated from Wyoming Seminary in the 1950s at a time when Wyoming Seminary
had an arrangement with Navy,
and Navy sent a lot of its promising high school football players to prep at
(09:13):
Wyoming Seminary for a year or two, get their grades up, whatever it was.
And that arrangement was actually terminated while Jim Royer was in school in the 1950s.
But he played for a Navy team, Jim Royer did, with Lon Ron Beagle,
who was a Maxwell Award winner at the position of end from Wyoming Seminary.
OK, Ron Beagle, Wyoming Seminary grad. We got Jim Royer. He was a lineman.
(09:38):
He was the biggest player on Navy at the time, also from Sem.
The quarterback was George Welsh, another Wyoming Seminary graduate.
George Welsh, listeners, especially if you like college football,
might know him. He's a former Virginia coach.
And Jim Royer, so that 1954 team, Navy also had Joe Gattuso.
(10:01):
Off the top of my head, I'm forgetting exactly where he went to school.
I think it was Wyoming Seminary as well. He was the Sugar Bowl MVP.
And so this Navy team was like the team of the Wyoming Valley,
or at least the Wyoming Seminary.
But what I said about how you could make a career in sports,
(10:21):
when Jim Royer graduated from Navy.
He knew that he wanted to remain involved in sports, but he didn't quite have
the talent to play professionally.
So he became a scout. He became a college scout.
He eventually became, I want to say, a defensive line coach,
worked with a couple NFL teams.
And he worked for over 20 years as the director of player personnel for the New York Jets.
(10:49):
And he's one of these guys, unfortunately, like so many of the other ones we'll
talk about, he died a number of years ago.
But man, I would love to sit down and to have had a conversation with him,
like just let the recorder go.
Because there was one story actually that I think this has a name that everyone recognizes.
(11:11):
But when he was an assistant coach with the New Orleans Saints.
Bill Belichick actually got stranded in New Orleans.
This was reported in a Bill Belichick book at some point.
Belichick was out partying with friends, ran out of money, and he called his dad.
Belichick called his dad, you know, Dad, do you know anybody in New Orleans?
(11:34):
What could I do here? And Belichick's dad called Jim Royer.
Jim Royer took Bill Belichick and all his college
buddies in the friends you know probably had
a nightcap but as the story goes belichick and
jim royer stayed up all night talking football and obviously bill belichick
goes on to become one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game just
(11:57):
hearing a story like that it just kind of gives me goosebumps it's like we gotta
we gotta commemorate guys like this absolutely yeah that's That's awesome.
That 1950s Navy team, unreal.
And, you know, there's so many – there's a bunch of the guys I'm going to bring
up that have that seminary connection.
So, you know, the first two that we talked about, well, you referenced there,
(12:19):
and there's going to be a couple more.
But now the next one I'm going to bring up isn't a seminary guy,
but a Hazleton guy who I believe came back into the area and coached for a little bit, John Yacino.
Am I saying that right? Is it Yacino? Yeah. Yeah, 1950.
50, basically the same era as Jim Royer.
(12:40):
Now, he was, I believe he came back and coached.
Was he coaching at Hazleton after they joined up with the jointure in the last 20 years?
Did he come back? I'm not 100% sure. I believe so. It was in the 1990s he came back to coach.
He coached in Western Pennsylvania, and he coached in Texas,
(13:02):
and he had a lot of success. You know, reading some of the news clippings by
a couple of my friends now in the Hazelton sports media, you know,
they covered him coming home.
I mean, it was a big homecoming when he came home to coach.
I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. Somebody out there is probably screaming
at the radio. He was great.
You know, I couldn't tell you too much about his coaching career at Hazelton.
(13:26):
But, you know, we're talking about, you know, their college glory days, really.
And Johnny Sino played at Pitt in the 1960s.
And as an individual, I think he was pretty good. He was a defensive back.
He was a running back. There was an occasion or two when he was the player of the game for Pitt.
(13:46):
But, man, you look at that Pitt schedule. Pitt played a killer schedule.
1961. I'm looking at it right here.
1961, Pitt had three wins, okay?
They only won three games at Miami, home against Navy, and home against USC.
So they were good enough to beat three darn good programs.
(14:09):
So just imagine the losses, you know, Notre Dame, Penn State,
at Washington, and so on.
But yeah, John Ucino really contributed to a legacy of just outstanding local
players who went to Pitt. You know, I'm saying this as a Penn State man.
We probably won't even talk too much about Penn State in this episode because
(14:32):
a lot of, not all, but a lot of the great Penn State players from the Valley are modern-ish era.
Jimmy Cefalo really kicked that thing off.
Although, like I said, there are examples of others before then.
But man, the great pit coach of the 1920s and 30s, Jock Sutherland,
(14:53):
he recognized that the Wyoming Valley was fertile ground for great college football players.
He got guys like Joe Scladani out of Larksville High School.
He's in the College Football Hall of Fame.
Joe Donchus from Wyoming Seminary, he's in the College Football Hall of Fame.
Eddie Baker from Nanticoke High School.
So you see, he wasn't just recruiting Jock Sutherland.
(15:15):
He wasn't just recruiting Wyoming Seminary. He definitely had an in with Wyoming
Seminary, but he was recruiting the whole Wyoming Valley.
And now John Encino.
Kind of came on the back end of all that. Jock Sutherland was not the coach
when John Yacino was at Pitt.
But, you know, just another extension of that great Pitt legacy in the Wyoming Valley.
(15:36):
Next guy I want to bring up is George, I believe from 44th, if I jotted it down
correctly, George Young, who I believe was a 42 graduate of 44th.
That's right. Is that right there?
Yep. P.I.A. Heavyweight state champion wrestler. Kessler, man,
again, we talk about these newspapers.com rabbit holes.
(15:58):
There was this in-depth article, I think it was in the Cleveland Plain Dealer,
that was written in the late 1940s or early 1950s, and it had such outstanding detail.
It had quotes from him, which was not really something you would see in a lot
of articles around that time, but it had quotes from him about his parents dying young,
(16:22):
that he and his sister often shared a can of beans for dinner,
that he had a throat infection and a thigh injury that basically derailed his football career.
And against all odds, the doctors thought that his career was over.
He went on to play like seven or eight years in the NFL.
(16:43):
And he's forever connected with this guy named Harold Catron,
I think that's how you pronounce it.
I think the last name is spelled K-A-T-R-O-N.
And Harold Catron was the University of Georgia letterman from the early 20th
century who worked for the Coca-Cola bottling company.
(17:04):
He settled down in Wilkes-Barre and he was, you know, in today's terms,
a booster for the University of Georgia.
And he helped a lot of of great Wyoming Valley guys go to the University of
Georgia, including Charlie Trippi, Joe Taraschinski.
Those are names that people might know. But George Young, man,
what an inspirational story.
(17:26):
And let me set the scene for you here. I thought maybe we'd talk about George Young.
So I did a little bit of extra research last night.
Now, let me set the scene for our listeners here. This is February 27th, 1946.
More than 300 people, including the entire Forty Fort High School football team,
(17:50):
attends a dinner at the Forty Fort Methodist Church.
Like something out of a movie here. You got the school band that's playing miniature
gold footballs are handed from adults to these high school players.
And the principal speaker is Wallace Butts, who at that time had won Orange
and Rose Bowls as head football coach at the University of Georgia.
(18:12):
He was on the precipice of winning a national championship at the end of 1946.
So this is like February 1946. By the end of the year, he was a national champion.
And what brought Butts, Wally Butts, to 44th was Harold Catrone,
you know, who recruited all these Wilkes-Barre area players to the University
of Georgia, including George Young.
(18:33):
You know, I think that he didn't have a great college career, not to speak out to him.
I don't think he had a great college career because it was interrupted by military service.
And, you know, Now, like I said, he had some really tough luck injuries,
but he was able to turn it around and had a great career with the Cleveland Browns.
If you look at the roster of the Cleveland Browns in the late 40s,
(18:56):
early 50s, I mean, he played with giants of the game of football,
people whose names are still remembered today, whose names are on trophies.
So yeah, that's the story George Young owed to be a fly on the wall at that
40 Fort Methodist Church dinner in 1948.
Forty-six, I'm sorry. Well, and, you know, some of the guys that we're going
(19:18):
to talk about, you know, during this episode are west side guys,
west side of the Valley, whether it's, you know, Kingston, Forty,
Fort Larksville, you know, even, you know, connections to Sem and whatnot.
And, you know, today, currently, that would be, you know, Wyoming Valley West.
So back in the day, all these regional high schools were, you know,
their own entities, but they all had tremendous athletes, you know,
and tremendously successful programs.
(19:40):
So it's, you know, then when they all kind of joined together,
it was always a, you know, when is Valley West going to be this juggernaut,
this, you know, massive program because so many of the individual little schools
were so powerful, you know, at the time.
And it just, it took a little while for Valley West to kind of get things going,
to get everything to mesh together.
So, you know, in that vein, somebody from Larksville from the 30s,
(20:03):
I think, and forgive me if I say his name wrong, but Joe Van Jura,
correct? Correct. Is that the correct pronunciation there, Mr.
Vangera? Right. Hey, your guess is as good as mine. We're just reading these names at this point.
But yeah, Joe Vangera, V-A-N space J-U-R-A.
Like you mentioned, Larksville High School backup center in the 1936-37 when
(20:29):
Fordham had the famous seven blocks of granite.
I mean, he played alongside just, again, giants of the game of college football.
Ed Franco, Vince Lombardi, Alex Wojciechowicz, I think it's pronounced.
I could have that wrong. And they were coached by Jim Crowley,
one of the four horsemen of Notre Dame who lived much of his adult life in Scranton.
(20:53):
And we're talking about burials. I always like to reference these.
He's buried up in Moscow in Lackawanna County.
And what a kind of surreal experience, Vito, when I saw the eternal resting
place of a guy like Jim Crowley.
And he's been dead for obviously quite a while.
And I think there was a Notre Dame flag on the grave, and it was well attended to and everything.
(21:18):
But man, just picture, and who has visited this grave over the years?
Who stood here the day that he was buried?
Worried i think that jim crowley was the last of the four horsemen to survive you know so.
But but anyway jim jim crowley i know we're talking
about joe van jura but you know really joe van jura's claim to fame in college
(21:41):
football was that he was a backup center so he was not one of the seven blocks
of granite you know maybe at some point there was a nickname for those backups
because if you got seven blocks of granite and you got like three or four backups
you know chips or I don't know.
But Jim Crowley, you know, we're talking about him. His contributions to the
(22:02):
game are just staggering.
He coached Fordham during its heyday, won a couple bowl games,
had Fordham ranked in the top 10 a couple times, and actually helped the Heisman
Trophy sculpture come to life.
Now, NYU's Ed Smith was the original model, but then the sculptor asked Jim
(22:25):
Crowley to revise it and make it look more realistic.
So then Crowley and one of his players went out on the field together and Crowley
posed the guy, you know, have your hip here until they got it just right.
Right. And there are photos of this, actually.
There are photos of Jim Crowley directing the original sculpture.
(22:47):
Well, not the original, the revised sculpture of the Heisman Trophy.
And Jim Crowley is certainly celebrated up in Scranton's way.
He's not a forgotten about guy. I think there's a park named after him.
But I feel like we could never do enough to remind people, to remind the next generation,
(23:09):
you know, that these giants came from where we're from. You know, have some civic pride.
This is incredible, in my opinion. And I know you agree with that.
Well, and, you know, arguably the biggest sporting event, you know,
in America, if not now, you know, globally, there's more presence of it,
(23:31):
you know, with the games being played in different countries.
But, I mean, NFL football, American football is a – you know,
it's an economic juggernaut, right?
It's – the money generated by the games and the merchandise and just everything,
you know, all the TV contracts. And it's crazy.
It's like, you know, it's monopoly money. It doesn't even make sense how much
money gets thrown around.
(23:51):
But all of those things would not be possible with, like, the kind of guys we're
talking about here, you know. And they played –.
If they did get a chance at the NFL or a chance at professional sports,
it was usually some of these guys from the 30s, 40s, or beyond.
It might have been just a little cup of coffee somewhere here or there.
And maybe they didn't have a long storied career, but they were the building
(24:13):
blocks as well of all the stuff that's happening today.
So if it wasn't for the Joe Venturas and naturally the Jim Crowleys and whatnot,
a little bit more of a historic figure. But all these little guys,
you know, quote, unquote, are the ones that built what's going on today.
So I always wonder, these guys, you know, signed their multimillion-dollar contracts.
(24:35):
I hope they understand all the guys that came before them as well because that's,
you know, if not for them, all the, you know, economic success that Dak Prescott
just signed for and all of his buddies, you know, wouldn't be possible.
And especially in the college game, too, now with NIL. I don't think you had
Greg Skripnak on a couple of weeks ago and certainly he would have been an NIL,
(24:59):
you know, recipient, but how about like Rocket Ismail?
What would Rocket Ismail be making in college football today?
Absolutely. Right. I mean, just, just imagine some of the, some of the guys
who came up and, and probably, you know, in the eighties and nineties when,
you know, like, you know, Deion Sanders,
like what would he have, you know, Bosworth, guys like that that were just all
(25:20):
over every national magazine and every, You know, that was, it was just coming
of age there where they were really throwing their names around and,
you know, they, they probably look back and just like, man, I missed it by a
couple of decades or, you know, and they could have been set if regardless,
like in case of Boz, you know, he didn't really pan out in the pros,
but he could have made so much money just in college that he wouldn't have needed a pro contract. Right.
(25:41):
Right yeah all right well let's go
back into yesteryear again we're kind of jumping all
around which is good this i love this kind of stuff that's fine by me there's a
person that i you know i again so many of
these guys i'm bringing up i didn't know of so it's all
history lesson to me but what i
have right here bob is it bob nanny yeah bob
(26:02):
nanny tell us about bob nanny oh man
I feel like I have the most personal connection
with Bob Nanny I couldn't tell you when this whole
you know interest in local college football stars started I mean it's just something
that's kind of been with me since I discovered newspapers.com and since I've
(26:25):
always loved local sports and sports history but man I feel like Bob Nanny was
one of the first people a couple years years ago,
who I really went down into the rabbit hole with him because it's a really tragic story.
Bob Nanny was from Pittston and his parents were Italian immigrants.
(26:47):
And he went to St. John's, the Evangelist High School, and he played there for
two years. And he's very good.
He actually played on an undefeated team that up until a few years ago was still
written about pretty regularly in publications like the Sunday Dispatch,
like Remember When, the undefeated 1937 St. John's Evangelist team.
(27:07):
But he ultimately went to Wyoming Seminary as a lot of these really good players
did because some had the connections to get them to the next level.
And so Bob Nanny, again, he's two years at St.
John's, the evangelist, goes to Wyoming Seminary, has a very good career at
Wyoming Seminary, but he certainly was not like one of those Navy guys that
(27:30):
we're talking about, right?
Who's clearly a blue chipper. He was just a really solid player.
And for whatever reason, again, these are these stories that are lost to time
and we'll never know why, but for whatever reason, he had his heart set on Duke.
And he went down to Duke University without a scholarship offer,
(27:51):
without any promise of getting playing time.
And he ultimately made
the freshman team as a
freshman i think he might have even been a freshman captain or
at least a starter on the freshman team played in
the 1941 rose bowl made all southern conference at least one or two years after
(28:13):
that and then he went overseas to serve in 1944 and at the same time okay at
the same time that he was overseas he's getting word that he's drafted into
the NFL by the Chicago Cardinals,
a very late pick, but a draft pick nonetheless,
and that he made all conference.
And so he's over there serving his time and he was killed on Iwo Jima in 1945, just 26 years old.
(28:40):
And we have a building at Wyoming Seminary, Sprague Hall, it's kind of our main academic building.
And we have a plaque, a large plaque that honors the war dead.
And man, whether you're having the best day or the worst day.
I just feel like it's a real opportunity to center yourself and appreciate the
(29:03):
privilege that it is to be at this school in this country, have the freedoms that we have.
Bob Nanny, man, that is just a story that never, ever goes away for me.
Actually, a couple months ago, because I'm on this mission to find out everything
I possibly can about Bob Nanny, I tracked down probably his closest next to kin,
(29:26):
a guy named Bob Nanny, who was named for him, was a nephew.
And it was great to talk to him. We must have talked for a half hour,
at least maybe an hour. And we were just kind of,
and repeating a lot of the same stories back and forth to each other.
And I appreciated the heck out of that because there are not many people that
(29:47):
know the stories about him that have been public that are reported,
but nobody really taken the time to read about him.
But, you know, he didn't really have additional details.
Like there was no lost journal or, you know, a banker's box of old,
you know, memoirs or something to help tell his story. So we're left to our
(30:09):
imagination remembering him.
But and one of the things about him, too, he had a really nasty temper on the football field.
And there was an instance that was reported in the Duke school newspaper where
he got penalized for something like 35 yards in a row, like 10 yard penalty,
10 yard penalty, five yard penalty, just an onslaught of penalty yards.
(30:33):
And he ended up writing a letter to, was it Eddie Cameron?
I think it was Eddie Cameron, the coach of Duke at the time.
And he wrote this letter that Duke published just a few years ago in remembrance
of World War II, a letter where Bob Nanny basically says, hey,
coach, I was an idiot back then.
(30:55):
I wish I understood what you were trying to teach me. I was too hot headed and so on.
And, you know, he was he was someone that was really growing and maturing and
probably had an amazing life ahead of him and unfortunately never came to pass.
So, you know, that's just a story that really sticks with me.
(31:16):
Well and and i think you know that that's
hitting on something i'd like to do in a future episode with you is
just talk about you know a collection of
of guys of athletes who you know had their careers cut short by by serving you
know overseas especially during world war ii i think as as we get older and
time passes so many of those of those fellas from that greatest generation are
(31:39):
all gone they're i don't know how many there has to be a miniscule number of fellas that are still
even around that served at that time.
But, you know, we could do our part to make sure that no one,
you know, forgets them because there's so – again, he's a classic tale of,
you know, what could have happened.
You have a great athlete that goes over, you know, pays the ultimate sacrifice
in, you know, serving and giving up his life.
(32:01):
But, you know, if he did survive and come back, you know, what could have been?
And so many of the guys who did, you know, serve and did come back and,
you know, talk about Ted Williams and baseball and, you know,
different fellows all over the place.
But, yeah, that would be cool. And I know you probably have a list of those
guys just sitting there waiting to talk about just people that were from the
Valley that served and didn't get a chance to fulfill their athletic dreams.
(32:24):
But we could talk about that. I think that would be really cool. That would be.
Another fellow, I think this is another, I was writing all this stuff down and
I didn't realize there were so many Wyoming Seminary people that I was putting,
which is good for you because you probably, you know a lot about them.
But what could you tell us about, I think it's Gutendorf. Is it Vince Gutendorf?
(32:48):
Oh, Vince Gutendorf. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, Vince Gutendorf. Well, you know what? Very funny. I mentioned earlier
that Jim Royer was someone who I talked to my students about today.
I talked to them also about Vince Gutendorf.
He was at Wyoming Seminary. I don't have the notes in front of me,
so I'm going to say a 1939 graduate of Sem.
(33:13):
And he went on to Columbia. I believe he played quarterback at Columbia.
And this was back when Ivy League football was a big deal. And then he came
back to Northeastern Pennsylvania. He was from Wilkes-Barre.
He came back to Northeastern Pennsylvania and he was like the public,
like the PR director of sorts for most of the professional major and minor league
(33:37):
sports teams that we had in Northeastern Pennsylvania from the 40s through the 60s.
You know, there's pictures of him with like Joe DiMaggio when DiMaggio was coming
through Scranton and he was feted at all these great events.
And yeah, Vince Gutendorf, that's a good one.
Now, you mentioned at the beginning, and I didn't jump on it,
(33:58):
I should have jumped on it when you mentioned it, but you talked about,
I think, someone who was one of the original All-Americans, or I don't know
if you had the name or not.
I wanted to circle back to that. Was there somebody there, or was that not a
name that we didn't mention yet? Oh, yeah.
Alfred E. Bull, you know, Al Bull.
He's another one who, you know.
(34:20):
So he played in the 19th century.
So if you've never heard of Al Bull, you're forgiven. Certainly.
However, man, if one person comes away from this interview, you know,
talking about Al Bull to their friends and saying that Al Bull is one of the
greatest players, however, if you never heard of Al Bull, then my job here is done.
(34:43):
But yeah, Al Bull was born in Wilkes-Barre, attended Wyoming Seminary.
And like you said, this is not like Wyoming Seminary PR.
It's just that Wyoming Seminary was that good at football back in the early days.
So Al Bull, he was a consensus All-American center in 1895.
(35:03):
And here's the cool twist to that story, right?
Is that he was an All-American with Charles Gelbert, who was from Hawley and
attended Scranton Public Schools.
Now, keep in mind, this is the important thing to remember here.
The sport only had two selectors and 11 spots total for All-Americans in 1895.
(35:26):
So it's not like today where you have Phil Steele, Lindy's, Athlon,
Sporting News, ESPN, Associated Press.
No, you had two selectors for All-America and they didn't.
Pick offense and defense. They just picked the 11 best players. And Al Bull was on there.
And Charles Gelber was on there. So two of the 11 best players in all of college
(35:50):
football were from Northeastern Pennsylvania in the 1890s.
But that UPenn team in 1895, if you looked up the scores of those games,
you would think that it is the greatest team in the history of college football.
They went 14-0, outscored opponents.
Man, a ridiculous margin. They only gave up 24 points all year.
(36:13):
14 of them were against Harvard.
And they played nine games in four weeks.
This is just how you played football back in the 1890s. Nine games in four weeks.
And then Bull went on to coach a few teams, including Iowa in 1896.
So again, he made All All-America, 1895, college playing career ended,
(36:35):
and then immediately was coaching Iowa. Like, yeah, Big Ten Iowa.
And, you know, talking again about Al Bull, and so he's so great.
You know, it's a shame he's not in the College Football Hall of Fame.
After everything I said there, you know, All-American, consensus All-American
on one of the greatest teams in the history of the sport at a time when only
(36:56):
11 players made All-America,
coached for a number of years like i said he started at iowa but then i'm actually
going to google real quick just to look this up then he coached at franklin
and marshall georgetown lafayette,
muhlenberg i mean he spent over 10 15 years as a head coach on top of what he
(37:18):
did in playing and you know what at this point i'll probably never make the
college football hall of fame.
Because i don't think anybody's banging the drum for old al ball except for
me but no but But that's the thing.
If nothing else, hopefully someone, you know, out there in listening land will
remember the name Al Bull.
Because I tell you, before I saw, you know, your reference to him,
I did not know who he was. I did not know his story.
(37:41):
You know, and honestly, I think I knew one name of the 10 or so fellas that
we mentioned, you know, during this episode so far.
So, and for me, it's fun.
And like I said, what I'm trying to set up with this is hopefully a series of
episodes with you, Matt, where we kind of delve into, you know,
maybe 10 or so guys at a clip and, you know, and, and tell their stories.
(38:02):
Cause I think this is really, really cool. And it's fun for me.
Like I said, it's my podcast, so I'm having you on. So that's, that's a good thing.
But one thing I'm going to make a left turn before we wrap up and talk about,
you know, you brought up baseball at the beginning, I'll bring up basketball,
something I want you to do.
I did a little research on it, but my grandfather, by the name of John Burns,
(38:24):
played in the 30s – 20s or 30s, actually –,
In Wilkes-Barre, St. Mary's was a basketball team that played or was supposed to play in Chicago.
They were like a powerhouse Catholic school basketball team back in the day.
And we traveled out to the Midwest to play in some tournament of other Catholic high schools.
(38:48):
And I think I found a couple articles.
I think it was newspaper.com in reference to that team. But they were a well-known,
you know, really, again, at the time, it was a different kind of game.
And, you know, they weren't scoring 100 points and all that stuff.
And probably the tallest guy might have been 6'2". You know,
it was definitely a different game, you know, back in the 20s and 30s.
But I want to try to find some information on that team because I do know it's
(39:12):
a local team from the Valley that was nationally regarded.
And, you know, I think either went out to play in the national championship tournament.
I don't know if it ever happened. happen i couldn't find
the finals of that but again saint mary's
which you know saint mary saint nick's became saint nick's and then you know
bishop hoban and all that stuff you know as the years progressed but saint mary's
(39:34):
high school back in the day so that'll be our that's your homework for the next
episode we'll talk about that good homework and you know as as we're talking
about homework you know people might not know you were actually the principal of wyoming area.
When I was at Wyoming area, I'm a proud warrior.
And some of my students got a kick out of that, you know, that I'm being interviewed
by my former high school principal, you know, this full circle moment.
(39:58):
Yes. The circle of life. It just makes me very old. Makes me feel even older, Matt.
Thanks for that. I appreciate that. But no, it is.
And it's, you know, again, when you get to be around, the cool thing about being
around for as long as I have is you get.
An opportunity to kind of build this network of
of you know friends and colleagues and former people they
worked with or you you know had in your school as a principal or
(40:19):
or sports reporters you talk to when you're a coach things like that and you
can call on them and kind of you know talk about things like this which you
know this is exactly why i set this whole podcast up to talk about you know
school sports and leadership and and all the stories interconnected you know
in and around nep and i'm having a blast doing it and all the guests so far
have been you know so much fun.
You're going to be a recurring guest on this show because there's going to be
(40:42):
so many cool things we get to talk about so I am going to wrap it up because
I wanted to hit about 10 guys and we did, I think we hit a little bit more and
I don't want to make this a two hour podcast I want to make it something that people can digest,
and leave them wishing for more so we will have,
more with Matt Pafano and again it will be talking about not just football players,
(41:04):
some of the greats from the past but we're all going to branch out and some
other sports as well and celebrate some of the athletes from Northeastern Pennsylvania
because the last thing that neither one of us want to see is their stories be forgotten.
So we're going to do our best to celebrate and highlight.
And Matt, I thank you so much for coming on and giving us an opportunity to
(41:25):
chat. It's been a lot of fun.
I agree. I thank you for the platform to talk about some of these stories.
Anytime I get to give these guys, like we said earlier, their proper due and
remembrance, man, that's a good day. Absolutely. Well, thank you again.
Music.
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