July 8, 2024 • 34 mins
How can we enact social change, alleviate systemic oppression, and foster a more just and equitable world? Our guest, Dawn, says it all begins with self-connection, our relationship with ourself.
This episode we focus on self-connection strategies in the realms of emotions, vulnerability, and beliefs. Dawn encourages us to attune to the data in our bodies, understand where our beliefs come from, and navigate the discomfort of new ideas. She shares stories and insights, from the impact of self-separation on global issues to the everyday challenges of staying calm with our kids.
Grab a comfy seat and join this exploration into the micro and macro impacts of self-connection. Let's dare to dream of a world where we all feel safe, valued, and empowered to create positive change.
Guest: Dawn Bulchandani, our insightful guide, has a wealth of knowledge, including three master's degrees and a nearly completed PhD in embodied validation. She's also a passionate advocate for Gaza, emphasizing the importance of moving from self-connection to compassionate social change.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Then you won't be angry. I will not be angry. Abby someone.
Abby someone. Abby who? Abby normal.
This is the Abby Normal Podcast, here to tell you that you're weird and that's normal.
(00:23):
We ended last episode with a question. Are you feeling self-separate?
And if you heard that question, did you think about pushing the envelope,
doing that little bit weird thing, stopping to smell the flowers to access the
delight of being a human?
This episode, we're going to discuss a couple more strategies.
(00:44):
And Dawn's premise is this, we have to do it because self-connected humans can
envision a better world.
Yeah. So we're awakened, we're compassionate. We cannot further things that
harm other people, things that harm ourselves.
We can't self-betray.
Music.
(01:08):
I recommend listening to the prior episode first, just to get the introductory
premise about self-separation versus connection, and to get to know Dawn a bit more.
She has three master's degrees, including one in Middle Eastern cultures and
religions. And up until February of 2024, was also finishing a PhD in embodied validation.
(01:29):
She's paused her work there to spend more time advocating for Gaza.
Something that I am so passionate about is leading people from the micro of
self-connection to the macro of social change.
So what I mean by that is, how does our relationship with ourselves,
(01:53):
the way that we self-inhabit, affect the way we are able to enact social change,
to alleviate systemic oppression, to increase justice and a more equitable world for everybody? buddy.
We all want that, right? To, as she says, self-inhabit, really know ourselves
(02:17):
as humans and be able to create a more equitable world.
I mean, honestly, it's like, I don't think there would be war if we were appropriately self-connected.
You know, a friend of mine said years ago when I was getting ready to go to
Baghdad, he said, when Saddam Hussein was in power in Iraq, I used to think
(02:40):
I wish I could send him a box of like newborn ducklings. feelings.
His feeling in that was just like, he wouldn't have used this language,
but what is the self-separation that got somebody to this point to be despotic
and tyrannical and murderous?
And maybe he just needs some ducklings, some humanity, right?
(03:04):
Get you back to who you are as an actual human.
Are newborn ducklings the balm we need? Maybe.
Even if we think about it critically in a sense of like, okay,
what if we still had 20 tyrants in the world?
But there's all these people. So like, for example, what's happening in Gaza.
Even though the news or whomever will isolate a certain world leader,
(03:27):
Netanyahu, Biden, there are thousands
of people in some kind of direct connection to those individuals.
And I absolutely think that if it wasn't for self-separation,
they would not be able to be on board with genocide.
They would not be able to be on board with incredibly dehumanizing anything, right?
(03:50):
They would not be able to rationalize that in some way, this is for the greater
good, you know, whatever that good is, money, power.
Music.
So we need to be self-connected because it impacts the macro, whether we see it or not.
You know, and again, it's like with the genocide in Gaza, there are so many
(04:11):
people that have had to say yes to this happening for it to happen.
I don't mean like be silent. I mean, literally say yes.
Literally say, yeah, part of my job is X.
And I know that that's going to lead to thousands of people dying.
And I'm going to do that task.
The axis of all of that is objectification, self-separation,
(04:35):
dehumanization of oneself.
That's the only way that can happen. That what I would call like the energetic currency of that thing.
Yeah. Cognitive dissonance is all part of that as well.
So all of these people saying yes, where I think an awakened humanity,
(04:55):
regardless of any political, religious or whatever you would be like,
I am utterly devastated by what is happening.
I will not further this.
Music.
Of those things where it's like, I don't even know why I have to say it out
loud. But lately, I find myself having to say the most ridiculous things out loud.
(05:16):
Like, hey, it's not okay that people are dying.
Palestinians are not worth less than other people.
You know, if your theology is racist, it's problematic, you know,
saying all these things that feel like very obvious sentences,
nobody should have to articulate.
So I think that all, it's dependent on that dehumanization, objectification,
access, the only way things like this happen.
(05:39):
Because otherwise, our awakened humanity would just, against our conscience, would not participate.
We would do everything we could do to not participate.
There's no way we would work for a bomb manufacturer and just be like,
la, la, la, and drive up and put our code in and be like, here I am working
on a bomb, figuring out how to kill,
(06:01):
I'm helping 18,000 people with this one. Literally, it's insane.
That's the gravity of the situation. But Dawn has hope.
Many hopes, actually. But the first one is that we can all access our humanity,
connect better with ourselves, our bodies, our worth, feelings, and beliefs.
(06:24):
So let's hear more about what that really means and how we can do it,
starting with emotions.
Focusing on who you are as a human, what does that mean to you?
You know, also like in like just, yeah, the realm of my research,
my PhD specifically, there's a lot around what I call our emotional technology.
(06:48):
Like what I mean by that is like, what is, you know, the divine imprint that's
within us for how our emotions work?
And what does it look like to be awake and engage with those fully,
healthfully, you know, with awareness, with acceptance? acceptance.
There's this idea that the more you can feel your sorrow, the more you can feel your joy.
(07:09):
So when it comes to what is it to be human, I think that's so much part of it
is our emotional technology, our emotional experience,
being aware of it ourselves, engaging with it, journeying through it,
and being able to articulate it with others, being able to be comfortable with
the vulnerability that is innately part of being human.
(07:31):
And I think, you know, vulnerability is one of those things where like,
the more we objectify, the more we kind of stifle our vulnerability.
So certainly to be embodied in our humanity is also to be in touch with our vulnerability.
And the rightness...
By others.
(07:51):
So I think, you know, a lot of, in particular, American socialization is toward
this like hyper individualistic view of our lives and view of the world.
And part of the irony there is, is that we, we actually suffer as a result of
that view because we're like Like our interpersonal neurobiology is designed to need other people.
(08:17):
We literally, biologically, emotionally need other people.
And so when we're trying to deny that, we are missing out on part of our humanity
and part of what it is to just embody, embody all of it.
You know, I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, like if you had a,
you know, a fridge full of interesting ingredients and you only used five of
(08:38):
those and it'd be like, I mean, okay, that's something, but you're kind of eating
the same thing continuously.
And, you know, and a lot of us do that because of fear, because of fear of the
unknown, because like we haven't seen it modeled, you know, emotions can feel scary.
We feel out of control.
And so it's like, I don't want to use that high curry paste in the door because
(09:01):
I don't know, you know? Yeah.
But like like to embody our humanity really is
to have that like comfortable curiosity with
all of those things with everything that's in the fridge
so to speak and you know we all
engage with it in different ways it doesn't look the same for everybody but
just that like exhale to be okay with who we are and what we feel and then what
(09:28):
that means for how we act how do we do that How do we do that?
Dawn is going to share one example of feeling out of control and pulling out
of the fridge the same emotion and behavior that we saw modeled for us.
(09:52):
The mom who's angry at her kid in Target. And this is not with judgment because
I struggle to stay calm with my kids too.
So the mom's angry. She in some way feels honestly threatened.
Her nervous system feels dysregulated.
She feels fear. She feels unsafe.
(10:14):
And I know a lot of us are like, how could you feel unsafe? It's a two-year-old.
So many of us grew up. in environments that did not welcome our emotional expression,
did not give safety for emotional expression.
So when we were upset, what was relayed to us was now dominion enters this relationship.
(10:38):
Someone will make you, by force, stop being upset, stop expressing how you feel.
Stop crying, stop whatever, right?
And so many of us did not have the appropriate attunement. we needed in childhood,
and we still don't have it figured out.
And so when our kids freak out, flail their arms in a shopping cart,
(11:02):
we lose it because we're right back there.
We're a kid again, and we want some kind of retaliation. We want some kind of dominion.
We want the challenge that has presented itself to end.
We want the chaos, the craziness to just end because it feels like such a threat
(11:25):
to our very existence in a way.
Because I think there's this like seed where we're like, if I'm this upset by
this thing, something is not quite right with me.
And if that thing is not quite right with me, then what does that mean about
my personhood, my ability to lead my life, my ability to accomplish my dreams,
(11:50):
have great relationships,
live at peace?
What does that mean? And so, we get into this fight or flight response.
And we don't know what to do, and so we just wanna shut it down by force.
We just wanna shut it down by dominion.
(12:11):
So with reflection, we can probably see that fear and control are not the only
things that we can pull out of the fridge.
Can we be curious about what else might be available in the depths of the door?
I actually think there is so much more that we haven't experienced,
we haven't tapped into individually,
(12:32):
collectively, in terms of how we can navigate dysregulation,
how we can navigate fear, how we can navigate feeling under attack.
And we have to learn attunement.
And in order to learn attunement, we have to learn self-connection.
(12:52):
So there's a lot of work to be done and it feels intimidating.
But here's the thing, and I deeply, deeply, deeply believe this.
We have, in our interpersonal neurobiology, we have a capability for attunement.
Like, that's really our optimal response pattern.
It's in there. We just have to kind of rest into it and we have to rethink the
(13:19):
way we perceive relationships and rule through force.
Also, this relates with yourself because a lot of us relate with ourselves in
the same way where we're like trying to control ourselves through force,
where we're trying to stuff our feelings through force.
It's actually not what we're meant for we're
(13:41):
meant for this beautiful peaceful self-connection and other connection there's
a twinkle in my eye because there's a huge invitation right now it's an invitation
to rethink relationships with self with others and to dare to dream what our ideal is,
(14:01):
not what our historical patterns are,
not what our upbringing taught us.
But if we can get into a clear place to really connect with what would be the
bigger dream, how would we like to respond when threatened?
Music.
(14:23):
We're designed to feel our feelings, share them, and meet other people within them.
We need to have comfortable curiosity with what's in the fridge,
being okay with how we are and what we feel and how we act.
This sounds good, but I have concerns.
Well, I'm just wondering about perceived or real risk involved in this.
(14:50):
Because you said like that there's way more benefits
right and feeling and expressing your emotions versus
suppressing them but I think about we're all
in this system together so if I make myself vulnerable I'm putting potentially
putting myself at risk within that system right so I don't know what do you
(15:13):
think like it feels like it would take a lot of bravery for lack of a better word.
Yeah i mean i think it does take a lot of bravery but i also think i mean we
all have times that we're going to be in survival mode and vulnerability is
going to look different in survival mode,
moreover you know vulnerability a mature vulnerability is always going to be
(15:34):
an embodied and boundary vulnerability it doesn't mean that we're just like
i don't know what you know walking targets for every whatever,
it means that our vulnerability is rightly housed,
rightly protected, rightly thought of.
I mean, it's like we all know there are certain people that you wouldn't say certain things to.
(15:57):
And I'm not saying that we should just say everything to everyone.
I don't think that's mature vulnerability.
I think the mature vulnerability is being aware of your own integrity situationally and then,
you know, moving in that, knowing that choices made in integrity,
(16:17):
some will come with bonuses and some will come with pains.
Yeah. And that that's a vulnerability.
But that's a risk in favor of not betraying oneself.
Yeah. You know, and I think a lot of that's also just, you know,
with embodiment, following one's intuition, you know, one's intuition knows so much.
(16:40):
So it's like, Like, yeah, like the example of what you would say to somebody
that you wouldn't say to somebody else.
You know, I can have some brazen idea, but like, I'm not going to,
I don't even want to give an example because.
There's lots of things you don't want to walk in and do. Exactly.
But you know what I mean? Like, like I would have an opinion,
(17:02):
but I would still be wisely when you share it.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that is part of embodiment because that's part of what
I would call self-integrity,
which is like one of my favorite guidance for life songs is Kenny Rogers, the gambler.
(17:24):
So you have to know when to fold them, know when to hold them,
know when to walk away, know when to run, right?
You don't count your blessings while you're sitting at the table.
So it's that, right? It's like the discernment part of it.
It's about knowing timing. You know what I mean? It's not just about the action.
It's about the timing of the actions.
(17:45):
We're such precious humans, all of us.
And when we're aware of our preciousness, we don't want to overexpose ourselves
to the wrong kinds of vulnerability.
You know? Because we are aware that we are precious. So it's not like we're
just, yeah, being vulnerable, just outlandishly, but like we know that we're precious.
(18:10):
So that's all par for the course of like how we are self-led.
Okay, so we're going to be self-led, brave, and listen to our intuition.
Another component of being self-connected is reflecting on our beliefs.
(18:31):
So much of the trajectory, you know, things that you and I are talking about, about,
our experiences growing up and like, you know, at least my language would be
like an outside pressure to self-separate, squelch the way that you actually
feel, squelch what you actually think.
Think and then like to me it's honestly like
pretending pretend play along with these
(18:53):
other ideas that we're trying to coerce people
and participating in for the sake of power and for the sake of control like
i think that's you know that's part of the honest take too is that i think so
many systems are not intellectually honest about why they want people to believe
something they will present that it's like oh this is like the most moral okay
(19:15):
like if it's a certain church They're like,
believe X because that's the most moral thing to believe.
I honestly think that a whole lot of the time, that is not the subconscious motivation.
The subconscious motivation is about power and control.
It doesn't matter what that unit of belief is.
It's about if we can all be pressured to believe this, then we create this thing
(19:38):
that has more power and control.
And if people are willing to give up their own intuition, their own self-connection,
if they're willing to squish what they know is wrong and just do stuff for the
sake of some moral good, then we increase our control.
Yeah, so many systems depend on objectification.
Yes, systems depend on women to be quiet and go with the flow.
(20:00):
They depend on worshipers to agree with moral absolutes.
Governments depend on citizens to trust them and continue within the structure and status quo.
I think self-betrayal is a big part of all of this, the way that so many of
us of us are socialized to betray ourselves and to be taught that not only should we do it,
(20:22):
but it is better to do it.
It is more moral to do it or more religious or whatever your framework is like, no, like.
There's this teaching that to be a good person, you stuff the way you feel about
something, and you serve this greater, quote unquote, good.
Of course, the idea being if you have to stuff how you feel,
(20:45):
what is that greater good?
Like, you know, it just kind of, the whole thing is like Swiss cheese,
if a greater good requires everybody else to self betray in order to perpetuate it, you know?
So if we know that the system always has these ulterior unspoken motives,
How can we ensure we're self-connected to our beliefs?
I think the path is generally the same, but maybe in different order for different people.
(21:11):
I mean, some of it's just the initial self-reflection of why do I believe what I believe?
Where is it coming from? Like, somebody can think they believe something,
but if it's like, okay, so like I experience this sometimes because people ask
me questions about things and they'll think like, oh, I I know a lot about X,
but I can feel the energy in them.
And this is not meant to sound judgmental, but I can feel the energy in them
(21:35):
where they are prepared to, in one way, accept 51% my opinion and 49% their opinion.
And by opinion, I don't even just mean what we think of as a cognitive opinion,
but it's actually the opinion of our bodies, of our experience.
We talk about data as in it's just on paper, but data is in our bodies.
(21:57):
It's everywhere, right? But it's also in our bodies. So if someone in some sense
is like outsourcing their belief about something to someone else,
that's something that needs to be looked at.
Are we outsourcing our beliefs? In Dawn's example, she can tell if someone is
going to believe her over themselves.
(22:19):
And like I said, I can often feel the energy of it in a conversation.
And I can feel like, I honestly don't want that.
There's lots of people who maybe they're experts in whatever.
And they do want that partly because we've built power around a disavowal of
our humanity and then outsourcing it to people in charge.
But I don't want that. I want everyone in an embodied way, owning what they think.
(22:45):
I mean, there's so much to say about all of this, but a lot of it comes from,
the philosopher Descartes and this whole idea of like physical stuff has more
value than spiritual stuff. Right.
So we can get in this idea of like, I'm going to approach this,
you know, leader, story figure, expert person.
And they're going to now almost like the, the belief is like a,
(23:06):
it's a unit, it's a book or it's a, whatever it is. And you just receive that thing from that person.
That's not really the way belief works. That's not really the way even real opinion works.
And so rather than outsourcing
it being aware of our bodies and our own opinions our
own beliefs so that you know it's like if there's something i knew absolutely
(23:26):
nothing about like underwater octopi or something like i can talk to somebody
about it but i can remain in my body and processing what they're saying and
i can still have the new belief be at least 51 my own own.
I know it's weird to say 51%, but my point is slightly more my own in a felt
(23:47):
way than the other person's, even if it's about something random,
because it's about my own ability to think for myself.
So I have this other phrase, self-housed. So to be housed in yourself,
to be self-inhabited is another thing that I talk about.
So that it's like your internal world is matching in your external world and
you are home to yourself.
(24:10):
So in that exchange, one, it removes some of the threat that somebody else knows
something that I quote unquote don't know, because it's like,
I'm secure in myself and that's fine.
And also I know that I can think through something.
And again, I'm not just talking about the normal traditional data,
but I can think through it, feel through it, and I can journey through a process
(24:33):
of thinking and have a level of ownership, regardless of how much I understand underwater occupied.
Music.
Safely be self-housed. Your body will tell you what you believe.
It will tell you what your data is. And then you can own your beliefs.
(24:56):
This is feeling like philosophical. You know, to the question of like,
how do we, how do we be self-connected? How do we not have self-separation?
It's about being reflective on our beliefs, on our ownership of our beliefs,
including our, like literally our physical embodied ownership.
How do you feel about the beliefs.
Not just like, do you have a little checkbox in your brain? But how do you feel about it?
(25:22):
We were talking about pink earlier, the color pink. How do I feel about pink?
Remove all of the other things. How do I feel about it? Can I follow that?
And I think that root of feeling and being led by feeling is actually one of
the most important parts of being self-connected, It's being able to feel and know what you feel,
(25:43):
know what you like and you don't like. And in some sense, why?
I mean, not like you need to like write a treatise on it, but like in some way, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. So there's that. I think like getting curious about,
you know, what you think,
getting curious about why you think what you think and,
you know, just holding belief so much more
(26:03):
like with an open in hand um because
there's just so little that is there's so little that we decide as an opinion
and it forever remains that exact opinion yeah you know so it's like partly
even just what is our opinion on opinions what is our opinion on facts what
is our opinion on data you know um,
(26:26):
and on like what i would say like revelation you know like just like the ever-expanding
maturity of like, you better be taking your opinions because like,
that's part of what it is to be human and be honest, you know? Yeah.
Music.
(26:47):
Over on her Instagram, Dawn shared a bit about what happens when we're presented
with information that contradicts our beliefs.
And I think if we're trying to understand our opinion on opinions and holding
them loosely, this information is helpful. Here it is.
In learning theory, there's something called a disorienting dilemma,
which is essentially when you are presented with new information that contradicts
(27:13):
old information or in an old paradigm, okay?
So, for example, if you had some kind of authority figure, let's say a principal
at the high school that you went to, and that person was discovered to have
been doing some kind of harm, you have a disorienting dilemma.
You need to consider, am I going to take in this new information,
(27:37):
take in this new paradigm, this new understanding of this principal, pole?
Or am I so uncomfortable with the level of safety, and I'm talking about mostly psychological safety,
can I release the former safety,
the perceived safety, in favor of acknowledging the reality that is happening
(27:59):
and in favor of, in some way, being part of contributing toward,
a healthier, more honest world.
So those are some thoughts about cognitive dissonance and this idea of a disorienting dilemma.
We're being presented with this on a global level. And while it's easy to think
(28:20):
that these principles are exclusive to these global issues and the genocide in Gaza.
The basis of cognitive dissonance, the basis of disorienting dilemmas applies to anything.
So if you're a human, then these are things we need to figure out how to travel
(28:42):
through, how to have enough self-safety to where we can go from one paradigm to another,
one idea of the world to another, and still feel safe enough because of ourselves
selves to navigate this comfort of the new idea and of the new reality.
This is actually vital to our personal survival, our personal thriving.
(29:06):
And I hope it's an invitation for all of us to really reconsider self-safety,
to reconsider what the cost is of cognitive dissonance,
what the cost is of denial,
avoidance, and so on.
(29:29):
Because if you can observe that with a global issue, you can also observe it in your own life.
And these are skills that we desperately need to get better at.
So consider this an invitation to sit with your cognitive dissonance,
go through the disorienting dilemma, and come out the other side as a clear,
(29:51):
more honest, more free version of yourself and human who can contribute to the
world from a clearer place.
From a place that's more aware of your own power and your own ability to navigate difficult things.
Music.
(30:15):
Okay, so we covered a couple ways to be more self-connected,
exploring and owning our feelings and our beliefs.
If that's the micro, let's return to the macro.
What Dawn is seeing right now are the macro consequences of self-separation. Thank you.
A lot of what I see right now with the genocide in Gaza happening is people rationalizing it.
(30:41):
And part of the way that I would say they access that view.
So what I mean is the way that they can have that view, like think,
OK, this is just something that has happened.
You know, it's a bummer. It's what it is, is because of dehumanization,
their own objectification, their own self-separation.
And what it means about what we let go of, like the way we've let go of what's
(31:06):
possible for a fuller humanity, you know, and how we're okay to settle for,
oh, there's just going to be war. There's just going to be genocide.
There's just going to be fighting of different forms because it's,
you know, I don't think people say this explicitly, but I do think that non-human
ways of thinking is like, we can't be compassionate.
(31:28):
We can't afford to be compassionate And people won't say that,
but that's really what's happened, you know, energetically.
And then with that, seeing people feel like, you know, their voices don't matter.
They can't make a difference.
And it really all runs the same equation in my mind of like,
(31:51):
you don't feel really connected to your own humanity and power.
You know so that's like the micro and then the
macro is like this grand humanization that's
happening and this is what it could be like the opposite is we're living in
this awakened self-connected way where first of all it's like we know that it's
(32:16):
appropriate to be affected by others.
We know that it's appropriate to have compassion for others.
We know that that is what is right, that that's like the beginning of what is right.
We cannot further things that harm other people, things that harm ourselves.
We can't self-betray.
(32:37):
Music.
Dawn's vision is people who feel safe enough to be affected,
to get angry, grieve, and fight injustice.
(32:57):
She says that is the embodied expression of their humanity.
As someone sometimes inclined toward apathy, I really appreciate Dawn contributing
different ideas to the conversation,
describing beyond geopolitics, why the horrors in Gaza are happening,
and possible reasons for how folks are reacting or not reacting to it.
(33:24):
This episode is intended to be part of several that are focused loosely on our bodies.
I hope there are many possible takeaways for you, but what I heard is simply
that connecting to my body is important.
Yes, to be my full human self, and also to be able to feel things in my body,
and to respect what it's telling me.
Plus, of course, to not objectify myself and others, to find value not only
(33:49):
in what this body can do, because it and I are valuable just being.
If you're interested in learning more, you can find her at Dawn Bolchandani.
She posted this recently.
Working on my audio series called 30 Days to More Self-Connection.
(34:11):
And it will be available sometime the next couple of weeks. So watch for it.
So it sounds like her self-connection program is coming soon.
I hope we can dare to dream of the world we want for ourselves and all these precious humans.
Music.
Would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Then you won't be angry. I will not be angry. Abby someone.
Abby someone. Abby who? Abby normal.
This is the Abby Normal Podcast, here to tell you that you're weird and that's normal.
(00:23):
We ended last episode with a question. Are you feeling self-separate?
And if you heard that question, did you think about pushing the envelope,
doing that little bit weird thing, stopping to smell the flowers to access the
delight of being a human?
This episode, we're going to discuss a couple more strategies.
(00:44):
And Dawn's premise is this, we have to do it because self-connected humans can
envision a better world.
Yeah. So we're awakened, we're compassionate. We cannot further things that
harm other people, things that harm ourselves.
We can't self-betray.
Music.
(01:08):
I recommend listening to the prior episode first, just to get the introductory
premise about self-separation versus connection, and to get to know Dawn a bit more.
She has three master's degrees, including one in Middle Eastern cultures and
religions. And up until February of 2024, was also finishing a PhD in embodied validation.
(01:29):
She's paused her work there to spend more time advocating for Gaza.
Something that I am so passionate about is leading people from the micro of
self-connection to the macro of social change.
So what I mean by that is, how does our relationship with ourselves,
(01:53):
the way that we self-inhabit, affect the way we are able to enact social change,
to alleviate systemic oppression, to increase justice and a more equitable world for everybody? buddy.
We all want that, right? To, as she says, self-inhabit, really know ourselves
(02:17):
as humans and be able to create a more equitable world.
I mean, honestly, it's like, I don't think there would be war if we were appropriately self-connected.
You know, a friend of mine said years ago when I was getting ready to go to
Baghdad, he said, when Saddam Hussein was in power in Iraq, I used to think
(02:40):
I wish I could send him a box of like newborn ducklings. feelings.
His feeling in that was just like, he wouldn't have used this language,
but what is the self-separation that got somebody to this point to be despotic
and tyrannical and murderous?
And maybe he just needs some ducklings, some humanity, right?
(03:04):
Get you back to who you are as an actual human.
Are newborn ducklings the balm we need? Maybe.
Even if we think about it critically in a sense of like, okay,
what if we still had 20 tyrants in the world?
But there's all these people. So like, for example, what's happening in Gaza.
Even though the news or whomever will isolate a certain world leader,
(03:27):
Netanyahu, Biden, there are thousands
of people in some kind of direct connection to those individuals.
And I absolutely think that if it wasn't for self-separation,
they would not be able to be on board with genocide.
They would not be able to be on board with incredibly dehumanizing anything, right?
(03:50):
They would not be able to rationalize that in some way, this is for the greater
good, you know, whatever that good is, money, power.
Music.
So we need to be self-connected because it impacts the macro, whether we see it or not.
You know, and again, it's like with the genocide in Gaza, there are so many
(04:11):
people that have had to say yes to this happening for it to happen.
I don't mean like be silent. I mean, literally say yes.
Literally say, yeah, part of my job is X.
And I know that that's going to lead to thousands of people dying.
And I'm going to do that task.
The axis of all of that is objectification, self-separation,
(04:35):
dehumanization of oneself.
That's the only way that can happen. That what I would call like the energetic currency of that thing.
Yeah. Cognitive dissonance is all part of that as well.
So all of these people saying yes, where I think an awakened humanity,
(04:55):
regardless of any political, religious or whatever you would be like,
I am utterly devastated by what is happening.
I will not further this.
Music.
Of those things where it's like, I don't even know why I have to say it out
loud. But lately, I find myself having to say the most ridiculous things out loud.
(05:16):
Like, hey, it's not okay that people are dying.
Palestinians are not worth less than other people.
You know, if your theology is racist, it's problematic, you know,
saying all these things that feel like very obvious sentences,
nobody should have to articulate.
So I think that all, it's dependent on that dehumanization, objectification,
access, the only way things like this happen.
(05:39):
Because otherwise, our awakened humanity would just, against our conscience, would not participate.
We would do everything we could do to not participate.
There's no way we would work for a bomb manufacturer and just be like,
la, la, la, and drive up and put our code in and be like, here I am working
on a bomb, figuring out how to kill,
(06:01):
I'm helping 18,000 people with this one. Literally, it's insane.
That's the gravity of the situation. But Dawn has hope.
Many hopes, actually. But the first one is that we can all access our humanity,
connect better with ourselves, our bodies, our worth, feelings, and beliefs.
(06:24):
So let's hear more about what that really means and how we can do it,
starting with emotions.
Focusing on who you are as a human, what does that mean to you?
You know, also like in like just, yeah, the realm of my research,
my PhD specifically, there's a lot around what I call our emotional technology.
(06:48):
Like what I mean by that is like, what is, you know, the divine imprint that's
within us for how our emotions work?
And what does it look like to be awake and engage with those fully,
healthfully, you know, with awareness, with acceptance? acceptance.
There's this idea that the more you can feel your sorrow, the more you can feel your joy.
(07:09):
So when it comes to what is it to be human, I think that's so much part of it
is our emotional technology, our emotional experience,
being aware of it ourselves, engaging with it, journeying through it,
and being able to articulate it with others, being able to be comfortable with
the vulnerability that is innately part of being human.
(07:31):
And I think, you know, vulnerability is one of those things where like,
the more we objectify, the more we kind of stifle our vulnerability.
So certainly to be embodied in our humanity is also to be in touch with our vulnerability.
And the rightness...
By others.
(07:51):
So I think, you know, a lot of, in particular, American socialization is toward
this like hyper individualistic view of our lives and view of the world.
And part of the irony there is, is that we, we actually suffer as a result of
that view because we're like Like our interpersonal neurobiology is designed to need other people.
(08:17):
We literally, biologically, emotionally need other people.
And so when we're trying to deny that, we are missing out on part of our humanity
and part of what it is to just embody, embody all of it.
You know, I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, like if you had a,
you know, a fridge full of interesting ingredients and you only used five of
(08:38):
those and it'd be like, I mean, okay, that's something, but you're kind of eating
the same thing continuously.
And, you know, and a lot of us do that because of fear, because of fear of the
unknown, because like we haven't seen it modeled, you know, emotions can feel scary.
We feel out of control.
And so it's like, I don't want to use that high curry paste in the door because
(09:01):
I don't know, you know? Yeah.
But like like to embody our humanity really is
to have that like comfortable curiosity with
all of those things with everything that's in the fridge
so to speak and you know we all
engage with it in different ways it doesn't look the same for everybody but
just that like exhale to be okay with who we are and what we feel and then what
(09:28):
that means for how we act how do we do that How do we do that?
Dawn is going to share one example of feeling out of control and pulling out
of the fridge the same emotion and behavior that we saw modeled for us.
(09:52):
The mom who's angry at her kid in Target. And this is not with judgment because
I struggle to stay calm with my kids too.
So the mom's angry. She in some way feels honestly threatened.
Her nervous system feels dysregulated.
She feels fear. She feels unsafe.
(10:14):
And I know a lot of us are like, how could you feel unsafe? It's a two-year-old.
So many of us grew up. in environments that did not welcome our emotional expression,
did not give safety for emotional expression.
So when we were upset, what was relayed to us was now dominion enters this relationship.
(10:38):
Someone will make you, by force, stop being upset, stop expressing how you feel.
Stop crying, stop whatever, right?
And so many of us did not have the appropriate attunement. we needed in childhood,
and we still don't have it figured out.
And so when our kids freak out, flail their arms in a shopping cart,
(11:02):
we lose it because we're right back there.
We're a kid again, and we want some kind of retaliation. We want some kind of dominion.
We want the challenge that has presented itself to end.
We want the chaos, the craziness to just end because it feels like such a threat
(11:25):
to our very existence in a way.
Because I think there's this like seed where we're like, if I'm this upset by
this thing, something is not quite right with me.
And if that thing is not quite right with me, then what does that mean about
my personhood, my ability to lead my life, my ability to accomplish my dreams,
(11:50):
have great relationships,
live at peace?
What does that mean? And so, we get into this fight or flight response.
And we don't know what to do, and so we just wanna shut it down by force.
We just wanna shut it down by dominion.
(12:11):
So with reflection, we can probably see that fear and control are not the only
things that we can pull out of the fridge.
Can we be curious about what else might be available in the depths of the door?
I actually think there is so much more that we haven't experienced,
we haven't tapped into individually,
(12:32):
collectively, in terms of how we can navigate dysregulation,
how we can navigate fear, how we can navigate feeling under attack.
And we have to learn attunement.
And in order to learn attunement, we have to learn self-connection.
(12:52):
So there's a lot of work to be done and it feels intimidating.
But here's the thing, and I deeply, deeply, deeply believe this.
We have, in our interpersonal neurobiology, we have a capability for attunement.
Like, that's really our optimal response pattern.
It's in there. We just have to kind of rest into it and we have to rethink the
(13:19):
way we perceive relationships and rule through force.
Also, this relates with yourself because a lot of us relate with ourselves in
the same way where we're like trying to control ourselves through force,
where we're trying to stuff our feelings through force.
It's actually not what we're meant for we're
(13:41):
meant for this beautiful peaceful self-connection and other connection there's
a twinkle in my eye because there's a huge invitation right now it's an invitation
to rethink relationships with self with others and to dare to dream what our ideal is,
(14:01):
not what our historical patterns are,
not what our upbringing taught us.
But if we can get into a clear place to really connect with what would be the
bigger dream, how would we like to respond when threatened?
Music.
(14:23):
We're designed to feel our feelings, share them, and meet other people within them.
We need to have comfortable curiosity with what's in the fridge,
being okay with how we are and what we feel and how we act.
This sounds good, but I have concerns.
Well, I'm just wondering about perceived or real risk involved in this.
(14:50):
Because you said like that there's way more benefits
right and feeling and expressing your emotions versus
suppressing them but I think about we're all
in this system together so if I make myself vulnerable I'm putting potentially
putting myself at risk within that system right so I don't know what do you
(15:13):
think like it feels like it would take a lot of bravery for lack of a better word.
Yeah i mean i think it does take a lot of bravery but i also think i mean we
all have times that we're going to be in survival mode and vulnerability is
going to look different in survival mode,
moreover you know vulnerability a mature vulnerability is always going to be
(15:34):
an embodied and boundary vulnerability it doesn't mean that we're just like
i don't know what you know walking targets for every whatever,
it means that our vulnerability is rightly housed,
rightly protected, rightly thought of.
I mean, it's like we all know there are certain people that you wouldn't say certain things to.
(15:57):
And I'm not saying that we should just say everything to everyone.
I don't think that's mature vulnerability.
I think the mature vulnerability is being aware of your own integrity situationally and then,
you know, moving in that, knowing that choices made in integrity,
(16:17):
some will come with bonuses and some will come with pains.
Yeah. And that that's a vulnerability.
But that's a risk in favor of not betraying oneself.
Yeah. You know, and I think a lot of that's also just, you know,
with embodiment, following one's intuition, you know, one's intuition knows so much.
(16:40):
So it's like, Like, yeah, like the example of what you would say to somebody
that you wouldn't say to somebody else.
You know, I can have some brazen idea, but like, I'm not going to,
I don't even want to give an example because.
There's lots of things you don't want to walk in and do. Exactly.
But you know what I mean? Like, like I would have an opinion,
(17:02):
but I would still be wisely when you share it.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that is part of embodiment because that's part of what
I would call self-integrity,
which is like one of my favorite guidance for life songs is Kenny Rogers, the gambler.
(17:24):
So you have to know when to fold them, know when to hold them,
know when to walk away, know when to run, right?
You don't count your blessings while you're sitting at the table.
So it's that, right? It's like the discernment part of it.
It's about knowing timing. You know what I mean? It's not just about the action.
It's about the timing of the actions.
(17:45):
We're such precious humans, all of us.
And when we're aware of our preciousness, we don't want to overexpose ourselves
to the wrong kinds of vulnerability.
You know? Because we are aware that we are precious. So it's not like we're
just, yeah, being vulnerable, just outlandishly, but like we know that we're precious.
(18:10):
So that's all par for the course of like how we are self-led.
Okay, so we're going to be self-led, brave, and listen to our intuition.
Another component of being self-connected is reflecting on our beliefs.
(18:31):
So much of the trajectory, you know, things that you and I are talking about, about,
our experiences growing up and like, you know, at least my language would be
like an outside pressure to self-separate, squelch the way that you actually
feel, squelch what you actually think.
Think and then like to me it's honestly like
pretending pretend play along with these
(18:53):
other ideas that we're trying to coerce people
and participating in for the sake of power and for the sake of control like
i think that's you know that's part of the honest take too is that i think so
many systems are not intellectually honest about why they want people to believe
something they will present that it's like oh this is like the most moral okay
(19:15):
like if it's a certain church They're like,
believe X because that's the most moral thing to believe.
I honestly think that a whole lot of the time, that is not the subconscious motivation.
The subconscious motivation is about power and control.
It doesn't matter what that unit of belief is.
It's about if we can all be pressured to believe this, then we create this thing
(19:38):
that has more power and control.
And if people are willing to give up their own intuition, their own self-connection,
if they're willing to squish what they know is wrong and just do stuff for the
sake of some moral good, then we increase our control.
Yeah, so many systems depend on objectification.
Yes, systems depend on women to be quiet and go with the flow.
(20:00):
They depend on worshipers to agree with moral absolutes.
Governments depend on citizens to trust them and continue within the structure and status quo.
I think self-betrayal is a big part of all of this, the way that so many of
us of us are socialized to betray ourselves and to be taught that not only should we do it,
(20:22):
but it is better to do it.
It is more moral to do it or more religious or whatever your framework is like, no, like.
There's this teaching that to be a good person, you stuff the way you feel about
something, and you serve this greater, quote unquote, good.
Of course, the idea being if you have to stuff how you feel,
(20:45):
what is that greater good?
Like, you know, it just kind of, the whole thing is like Swiss cheese,
if a greater good requires everybody else to self betray in order to perpetuate it, you know?
So if we know that the system always has these ulterior unspoken motives,
How can we ensure we're self-connected to our beliefs?
I think the path is generally the same, but maybe in different order for different people.
(21:11):
I mean, some of it's just the initial self-reflection of why do I believe what I believe?
Where is it coming from? Like, somebody can think they believe something,
but if it's like, okay, so like I experience this sometimes because people ask
me questions about things and they'll think like, oh, I I know a lot about X,
but I can feel the energy in them.
And this is not meant to sound judgmental, but I can feel the energy in them
(21:35):
where they are prepared to, in one way, accept 51% my opinion and 49% their opinion.
And by opinion, I don't even just mean what we think of as a cognitive opinion,
but it's actually the opinion of our bodies, of our experience.
We talk about data as in it's just on paper, but data is in our bodies.
(21:57):
It's everywhere, right? But it's also in our bodies. So if someone in some sense
is like outsourcing their belief about something to someone else,
that's something that needs to be looked at.
Are we outsourcing our beliefs? In Dawn's example, she can tell if someone is
going to believe her over themselves.
(22:19):
And like I said, I can often feel the energy of it in a conversation.
And I can feel like, I honestly don't want that.
There's lots of people who maybe they're experts in whatever.
And they do want that partly because we've built power around a disavowal of
our humanity and then outsourcing it to people in charge.
But I don't want that. I want everyone in an embodied way, owning what they think.
(22:45):
I mean, there's so much to say about all of this, but a lot of it comes from,
the philosopher Descartes and this whole idea of like physical stuff has more
value than spiritual stuff. Right.
So we can get in this idea of like, I'm going to approach this,
you know, leader, story figure, expert person.
And they're going to now almost like the, the belief is like a,
(23:06):
it's a unit, it's a book or it's a, whatever it is. And you just receive that thing from that person.
That's not really the way belief works. That's not really the way even real opinion works.
And so rather than outsourcing
it being aware of our bodies and our own opinions our
own beliefs so that you know it's like if there's something i knew absolutely
(23:26):
nothing about like underwater octopi or something like i can talk to somebody
about it but i can remain in my body and processing what they're saying and
i can still have the new belief be at least 51 my own own.
I know it's weird to say 51%, but my point is slightly more my own in a felt
(23:47):
way than the other person's, even if it's about something random,
because it's about my own ability to think for myself.
So I have this other phrase, self-housed. So to be housed in yourself,
to be self-inhabited is another thing that I talk about.
So that it's like your internal world is matching in your external world and
you are home to yourself.
(24:10):
So in that exchange, one, it removes some of the threat that somebody else knows
something that I quote unquote don't know, because it's like,
I'm secure in myself and that's fine.
And also I know that I can think through something.
And again, I'm not just talking about the normal traditional data,
but I can think through it, feel through it, and I can journey through a process
(24:33):
of thinking and have a level of ownership, regardless of how much I understand underwater occupied.
Music.
Safely be self-housed. Your body will tell you what you believe.
It will tell you what your data is. And then you can own your beliefs.
(24:56):
This is feeling like philosophical. You know, to the question of like,
how do we, how do we be self-connected? How do we not have self-separation?
It's about being reflective on our beliefs, on our ownership of our beliefs,
including our, like literally our physical embodied ownership.
How do you feel about the beliefs.
Not just like, do you have a little checkbox in your brain? But how do you feel about it?
(25:22):
We were talking about pink earlier, the color pink. How do I feel about pink?
Remove all of the other things. How do I feel about it? Can I follow that?
And I think that root of feeling and being led by feeling is actually one of
the most important parts of being self-connected, It's being able to feel and know what you feel,
(25:43):
know what you like and you don't like. And in some sense, why?
I mean, not like you need to like write a treatise on it, but like in some way, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. So there's that. I think like getting curious about,
you know, what you think,
getting curious about why you think what you think and,
you know, just holding belief so much more
(26:03):
like with an open in hand um because
there's just so little that is there's so little that we decide as an opinion
and it forever remains that exact opinion yeah you know so it's like partly
even just what is our opinion on opinions what is our opinion on facts what
is our opinion on data you know um,
(26:26):
and on like what i would say like revelation you know like just like the ever-expanding
maturity of like, you better be taking your opinions because like,
that's part of what it is to be human and be honest, you know? Yeah.
Music.
(26:47):
Over on her Instagram, Dawn shared a bit about what happens when we're presented
with information that contradicts our beliefs.
And I think if we're trying to understand our opinion on opinions and holding
them loosely, this information is helpful. Here it is.
In learning theory, there's something called a disorienting dilemma,
which is essentially when you are presented with new information that contradicts
(27:13):
old information or in an old paradigm, okay?
So, for example, if you had some kind of authority figure, let's say a principal
at the high school that you went to, and that person was discovered to have
been doing some kind of harm, you have a disorienting dilemma.
You need to consider, am I going to take in this new information,
(27:37):
take in this new paradigm, this new understanding of this principal, pole?
Or am I so uncomfortable with the level of safety, and I'm talking about mostly psychological safety,
can I release the former safety,
the perceived safety, in favor of acknowledging the reality that is happening
(27:59):
and in favor of, in some way, being part of contributing toward,
a healthier, more honest world.
So those are some thoughts about cognitive dissonance and this idea of a disorienting dilemma.
We're being presented with this on a global level. And while it's easy to think
(28:20):
that these principles are exclusive to these global issues and the genocide in Gaza.
The basis of cognitive dissonance, the basis of disorienting dilemmas applies to anything.
So if you're a human, then these are things we need to figure out how to travel
(28:42):
through, how to have enough self-safety to where we can go from one paradigm to another,
one idea of the world to another, and still feel safe enough because of ourselves
selves to navigate this comfort of the new idea and of the new reality.
This is actually vital to our personal survival, our personal thriving.
(29:06):
And I hope it's an invitation for all of us to really reconsider self-safety,
to reconsider what the cost is of cognitive dissonance,
what the cost is of denial,
avoidance, and so on.
(29:29):
Because if you can observe that with a global issue, you can also observe it in your own life.
And these are skills that we desperately need to get better at.
So consider this an invitation to sit with your cognitive dissonance,
go through the disorienting dilemma, and come out the other side as a clear,
(29:51):
more honest, more free version of yourself and human who can contribute to the
world from a clearer place.
From a place that's more aware of your own power and your own ability to navigate difficult things.
Music.
(30:15):
Okay, so we covered a couple ways to be more self-connected,
exploring and owning our feelings and our beliefs.
If that's the micro, let's return to the macro.
What Dawn is seeing right now are the macro consequences of self-separation. Thank you.
A lot of what I see right now with the genocide in Gaza happening is people rationalizing it.
(30:41):
And part of the way that I would say they access that view.
So what I mean is the way that they can have that view, like think,
OK, this is just something that has happened.
You know, it's a bummer. It's what it is, is because of dehumanization,
their own objectification, their own self-separation.
And what it means about what we let go of, like the way we've let go of what's
(31:06):
possible for a fuller humanity, you know, and how we're okay to settle for,
oh, there's just going to be war. There's just going to be genocide.
There's just going to be fighting of different forms because it's,
you know, I don't think people say this explicitly, but I do think that non-human
ways of thinking is like, we can't be compassionate.
(31:28):
We can't afford to be compassionate And people won't say that,
but that's really what's happened, you know, energetically.
And then with that, seeing people feel like, you know, their voices don't matter.
They can't make a difference.
And it really all runs the same equation in my mind of like,
(31:51):
you don't feel really connected to your own humanity and power.
You know so that's like the micro and then the
macro is like this grand humanization that's
happening and this is what it could be like the opposite is we're living in
this awakened self-connected way where first of all it's like we know that it's
(32:16):
appropriate to be affected by others.
We know that it's appropriate to have compassion for others.
We know that that is what is right, that that's like the beginning of what is right.
We cannot further things that harm other people, things that harm ourselves.
We can't self-betray.
(32:37):
Music.
Dawn's vision is people who feel safe enough to be affected,
to get angry, grieve, and fight injustice.
(32:57):
She says that is the embodied expression of their humanity.
As someone sometimes inclined toward apathy, I really appreciate Dawn contributing
different ideas to the conversation,
describing beyond geopolitics, why the horrors in Gaza are happening,
and possible reasons for how folks are reacting or not reacting to it.
(33:24):
This episode is intended to be part of several that are focused loosely on our bodies.
I hope there are many possible takeaways for you, but what I heard is simply
that connecting to my body is important.
Yes, to be my full human self, and also to be able to feel things in my body,
and to respect what it's telling me.
Plus, of course, to not objectify myself and others, to find value not only
(33:49):
in what this body can do, because it and I are valuable just being.
If you're interested in learning more, you can find her at Dawn Bolchandani.
She posted this recently.
Working on my audio series called 30 Days to More Self-Connection.
(34:11):
And it will be available sometime the next couple of weeks. So watch for it.
So it sounds like her self-connection program is coming soon.
I hope we can dare to dream of the world we want for ourselves and all these precious humans.
Music.
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