September 15, 2025 • 35 mins
If one more person says “we’re all a little ADHD,”! It might sound harmless but for women actually living with ADHD, it’s dismissive, frustrating, and deeply untrue. In this episode, Jess and Jeannine dig into why ADHD is more than being forgetful or scattered, and how minimizing it fuels stigma, shame, and imposter syndrome.
They highlight how ADHD shows up across a lifetime: through school struggles, puberty, parenting, work, and beyond. This is a conversation about the real impact ADHD has on women’s lives and why clarity matters when we push back against casual misconceptions.
If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re alone in your struggles, this episode will remind you that you’re not. ADHD is real, it’s lifelong, and it deserves to be understood.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Jessica (00:00)Welcome back to Angry on the Inside, a podcast for women who've been late diagnosed with ADHD. I'm Jessica from Alternative Path Coaching, your co-host and fellow late diagnosed woman.
(00:01):
Jeannine Thill (00:09)I'm Janine Thill, founder of Everyday Greatness Coaching. we're so glad you're here with us today. today's topic is something you've probably heard a lot.
does everyone have ADHD these days
Jessica (00:21)Short answer, no. Long answer, well, that's what we're gonna talk about. while a lot of people relate to ADHD traits and ADHD traits are relatable to everyone, that doesn't mean everyone has it. understanding the difference will make a huge impact on your life.
Jeannine Thill (00:36)let's start by digging into this idea that everyone has ADHD. I think with a significant increase in ADHD diagnosis over the past decade, particularly among adults, there is definitely more awareness and discussion, which is good.
Jessica (00:50)Social media is definitely added to the conversation and ADHD related content is everywhere with people sharing their symptoms, coping strategies, personal experiences. I think that it's important to realize when we start to look into social media and we are trying to decide what's going on with us, do we have ADHD? Are we neurodiverse? These types of things.
we almost become inundated due to the algorithms with anything you can think of about ADHD. And
Jeannine AI (01:14)We are left trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.
Jessica (01:17)based on a disorder that is a spectrum in and of itself.
Jeannine Thill (01:21)Yes And I'm laughing at the algorithm because I think it tells you my experience with TikTok. I signed on, tried to fake the information, told him I was somebody else and within, I swear not, within five minutes, half my feed was ADHD. Still don't know how it figured that one out, but it did. But all this increased visibility is great at educating people and definitely starting that conversation around neurodiversity, is desperately needed.
Jessica (01:44)The issue is, is that it does lead to some misunderstandings and some skepticism with people questioning whether ADHD is being overdiagnosed or if it's just trendy to identify with these symptoms. it's caused me to feel some real anger on the topic. It, it does kind of get my hackles up.
Jeannine Thill (02:03)Everyone spaces out now and then. We've all had those moments where you open the fridge and forget what you're looking for, or your mid-sentence and your brain just kind of forgets what it was wanting to say. But when neurotypical people complain that they're so ADHD, this perpetuates
Jessica & Jeannine AI (02:16)the
Jeannine Thill (02:16)stereotype about what
ADHD is,
Jessica (02:19)Yes. And if you're unsure, we are here to tell you that ADHD is much more than being distracted or unable to sit still. You know, it's a neurodevelopmental condition. It does clinically effect your prefrontal cortex
It affects how the brain manages focus, motivation, planning, emotions, you know, all the behind the scenes stuff that keeps your day moving.
Jeannine Thill (02:43)someone with ADHD doesn't just miss a deadline now and then. We know that.
It can be a constant struggle with time blindness, emotional dysregulation, task switching, forgetfulness, or just getting started in the first place, even when we want to.
Jessica (02:56)It's a case of ADHD being persistent. It's not just a bad week. Most people feel unfocused when they're stressed or they're exhausted. And that's totally normal. But ADHD isn't just about feeling scattered when life gets chaotic. It's something that shows up everywhere. And when I say everywhere, mean everywhere all the time. So it is school, work, relationships, and it usually starts in childhood and it doesn't just
pop up and adulthood out of nowhere. You know, it can ebb and flow over time, but I think this is where those with ADHD start to feel the guilt or the imposter syndrome or the worry that they may not have ADHD because yes, everybody does get excited. Everybody does lose their keys. And you know, it, it makes me think of, and we were talking about this, the quote, which is, you know, was it a bad day or was it a
bad five minutes that you milked all day. part of me wants to say, well, no, I'm, I'm not some fucking milkmaid and I'm not here whining and I'm not here, you know, being pissy because I had a five minutes that didn't work out in my day. And that's supposedly that's my choice. Cause I'm here to tell you, it's not a choice. I didn't have a bad five minutes. had a rough 40 years.
(00:22):
Jeannine Thill (04:10)thinks that, yeah.
Jessica (04:13)where my, you know, my nervous system was pretty much annihilated and my brain didn't produce the chemicals that it needed to for me to be functional at a level that people think I need to be. Yet I was very intelligent. I was very honest. I was very considerate. I was empathetic to the point that I would make myself physically sick worrying about other people. But yet everything we see online,
we connotate that that's the opposite, Happiness is a choice. That is a load of shit And I, and I do believe that I really do. It is not a choice sometimes. Yes. Can we as late diagnosed ADHD women search out therapy and work on ourselves, work on our autonomic nervous systems, do all these things? Yes, we can. But there are parts of our brain and parts of our
Jeannine Thill (04:41)Right.
Jessica (05:03)autonomic nervous system that we cannot fix, that we cannot make better. did that five minutes make my day shitty? Yes, it did. But it also set off a long chain of events to make me feel like I can't function for the day. So I am not milking it. I am trying to function and it may have only been a bad five minutes.
Jeannine Thill (05:05)Yeah.
Yeah.
Jessica (05:26)but it's backed up by a shitty 40 years of ADHD and not understanding what was going on with me.
Jeannine Thill (05:29)Yeah.
I'll remember not to use toxic positivity on you. I will remember that. ⁓ and don't try using that shit on me either, please. I think the thing about the ebb and the flow is so, important for people to really understand. think even those with ADHD because
Jessica (05:38)Appreciate you.
Hahaha!
Jeannine Thill (05:54)It is that ebb and flow, if you're right. Maybe one day you've had it where you feel great, everything's good. Other days, I don't know, it either starts off bad or you wake up and just suddenly nothing is, nothing's clicking. And it could be because something did just derail you early in the morning, or you had that thing that happened and you just couldn't recover from it. I think that's really hard for people. who don't have ADHD to understand.
But I think it's hard for people with ADHD to understand that that could be what's happening to them. And instead they start beating themselves up, right? And they hear this like, just get over it, pull yourselves up by the bootstraps, brush off, just change your attitude, everything will be better. that's just not how it works. these are issues that we, late diagnosed women like you and me, have been dealing with.
Jessica (06:22)Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Jeannine Thill (06:40)we are carrying that weight with us wherever we go and trying to work through all those misunderstandings of who we are, what ADHD is, you know, and that sometimes we did make it through parts of our lives just fine, I never got in trouble at school. I was a B student, I wasn't the, seven-year-old boy running around disrupting class. I was a seven-year-old girl in the back of class.
getting lost in what my teacher was saying, realizing after three sentences, I had no idea what she was saying or no idea what we're supposed to be doing on this project and too embarrassed or too ashamed to ask. But from the outside world, I looked like everything was fine. And that kind of made me think, well then obviously it's me, right? It's fine. I'm not being disruptive. I'd get the good marks outside of didn't apply yourself enough, but I wasn't disruptive.
Jessica (07:22)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (07:29)it isn't just a phase. I think the fact that ebbs and flows, some phases are stronger than others maybe, but it's not just a phase.
Jessica (07:37)Janine, I like that you explain it as carrying weight because it really, that is what it is. And it's carrying a burden. you know, I know that everybody wants to be positive and talk about how this is my superpower in many ways that is true. These are things that allow us, you know, our coping skills, our abilities through ADHD allow us to push through and do things that many people can't.
(00:43):
But there's a huge but, in that It is a burden on our nervous systems. our brain. on our energy, our health. they're barely scraping the surface as to figuring out how all of these things connect
Jeannine Thill (08:13)Yeah.
Jessica (08:14)it's, it's scary. when we talk about phases, I think it's important to point out, especially to groups of people, if you're tuning in and listening, because you're wondering if you might have ADHD or you're new in the community and have just been recently diagnosed and things like that. Let's talk about our daughters and our nieces and our sisters and all of those
younger generations before us. Some of those phases that people put out, she's going through a phase. No, she's between the ages of 18 and 23 and suddenly it seems like her life is imploding and no one can figure out why. Because that's one of those big times where your hormones shift and your ADHD can go crazy. Especially for many girls who get out of school
Jeannine Thill (08:38)Yeah.
Jessica (09:00)who go from high school doing well and to college. And then suddenly they're bombing and everybody says, she had so much potential. what a waste such a smart girl. No, it's not a waste. are dismissing her behavior because we think she's being a pain in the ass when she's losing everything and is just stuck in this chaotic loop and doesn't understand why.
Jeannine Thill (09:10)Yeah.
bright.
Jessica (09:25)that's ADHD in your twenties. Let's talk about coming up on 30, cause that's the next one. You get into that 30, 35 range, you get into that like late thirties, early forties range. Whenever we start to have large hormone shifts or we have large life shifts, this is when it becomes horribly chaotic. these are the things that as late diagnosed women, we want to keep an eye out for our younger generations to recognize these are the times when it
Jeannine Thill (09:32)Yeah.
Jessica (09:53)was happening to us. These are the times when things were affecting us. Let's not allow it to happen to them. Did you have a daughter that was super talkative until she hit about 13?
and then everybody says, well you know she just doesn't want to be like her mom, she doesn't want to be like her mom, so she stopped talking to me for right now. Maybe, maybe that's possibility and that's an honest to god possibility, but maybe she's internalized because that's that age where we start to internalize that extra energy, that that thing that people associate with ADHD, That's when that time comes, that's when it hits our girls is in that puberty range.
Jeannine Thill (10:04)What?
Jessica (10:30)they have stopped talking to us because, they have other friends or they're doing other things or whatever. But if your daughter doesn't have a lot of friends or you don't feel like she's had someone to talk to and you're seeing these huge shifts, it's not just the hormones. It could be ADHD and ADHD runs in families, you know. So it's important just to educate ourselves,
this isn't the only topic, but it is important. It's important to educate ourselves and see that.
There are signs. Janine, you had said when you were young, you were a B student, you did good, You went through college, you didn't have much trouble in college, Had kids at a regular age, mid twenties-ish, correct? So.
Jeannine Thill (11:10)And I was always grateful
that I had twins because when my life fell apart, when I was trying to be a working mom, everyone was like, oh, what's so much harder for you because you have twins. And it was like, yeah, you know what, I'm sure it was, but oh, my ADHD that I did not know I had kicked in and it was, I was just barely, I was struggling to breathe every day. So again, you're right, it's that.
Jessica (11:31)Right.
Jeannine Thill (11:33)combination for women of you've got your hormones changing all the time, you also have these big life events like kids go off to college or even if they go from high school to You know living on their own and having a full-time job They've lost all that structure all that scaffolding that you had when you were at home, right in high school we don't realize how much structure is in a kid's life
it just doesn't seem like a thing and then when they go off to college or go off on their own They lose that and that's when you can start to see things starting to fall apart I did great through I mean I did okay through college getting my first real big job was a struggle And then once I had kids it was really really a struggle Because you just suddenly had
(01:04):
so much more that you had to handle, so much more you had to deal with. then you also had to be the perfect mom, let's not forget, it is something that is just, as you said, it's constantly changing. It's the ebb and the flow. And I think that adds some confusion too, because you can see times where even, or you can see it in yourself, where you feel like, hey, I'm doing really well, and then something changes.
and suddenly you kind of feel like you're falling apart again. And everyone's looking at you wondering what's wrong with you, as are you at this point, if you don't know what's going on, looking at yourself thinking, what is wrong with me? Why can't I get my act together?
Jessica (12:46)I think it's important for our audience to know. And I wish if any of you ever got to meet Jeanine, she's just an amazing woman. She really is. She's just an amazing individual, period. She really is. She's intelligent and she's so multi-layered. But I can tell you that her experience in her younger years with ADHD is a 90 degree turn
from what my experience was. And yet I can tell you as a late diagnosed ADHD woman that Janine and I suffered in the same way. It's just the circumstances that were very different. that's why it's important to understand that when we are looking out at people, even though someone might seem like they have their shit together, or someone might seem like they are just a total shit show,
It doesn't mean that's actually what's going on for the person. And that is where, you know, that imposter syndrome can come into play for women with ADHD. For me, I could tell you from a young age, I cussed like a sailor. I was hypersexual. I was a straight A student.
Jeannine Thill (13:37)All
Definitely, yeah.
yeah.
Jessica (13:53)I had all of these things happening all at once and I was a good person. by my mid twenties, I honestly, I thought I was going crazy. And you have to understand too, we talk with women with ADHD, are targets for, or just neuro diverse women in general, our targets for abuse, abusive people, emotional abuse, things like that.
that comes in all different shapes and forms. we have to walk back that judgment and also stop with the ableist bullshit of saying, well, isn't everybody a little ADHD? No, everyone is not a little bit ADHD. And
Jeannine Thill (14:24)Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jeannine Thill (14:27)ADHD isn't a result of too much screen time or bad parenting or not trying hard enough. Nope, it is brain-based.
Jessica (14:34)ADHD is about the brain literally processing things differently, especially when it comes to motivations, focus, regulating emotions and impulses.
Jeannine Thill (14:44)Okay. Which is why this lack of attention is kind of obviously a misnomer because we know that people with ADHD can hyper focus on something that they love, but then totally hit a roadblock when it comes to something that they have to do. it's not laziness or lack of willpower. Again, it's neurological.
Jessica (15:01)Many in the neurodiverse community think that a huge part of the problem is the name, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, that it oversimplifies the condition and implies that it just makes it hard to focus or to sit still.
Jeannine Thill (15:13)I'm one of those. completely agree with that. I think the term attention deficit suggests that people with ADHD, as you said, simply just can't pay attention, which we know is not true. folks with ADHD can easily focus on something that's really interesting to them. You know, they can fall into hyper-focus where they can just lose themselves in something for, three, four hours days. At least
I definitely know that I can. the difficulty isn't lack of attention, it's in that ability to regulate the attention and directing it to tasks that are necessary. Maybe not fun, but definitely necessary and things that need to get done.
Jessica (15:48)not only does it not fully encompass the range of challenges associated with it, but the term deficit also fails to address the strengths associated with ADHD. we could do a whole podcast on that where we just all sit and try to think of new names to call ADHD, because really it would be that easy.
we can laugh and we can joke it off and we can, have some fun with these things. But the main idea, the main topic here is that no,
Everyone does not have ADHD. Yes, it is something that is very serious and very impactful. it's not just losing your keys or forgetting to, pick up the kids at the end of the day.
Jeannine Thill (16:24)Right.
(01:25):
It's a constant thing that's going on for you. I think too that the term disorder, it makes it sound like it's either something you have it or you don't. Some days are better, some days are worse. the term hyperactivity makes it sound like it's somebody who can't sit still or can't stop talking.
we know that there are folks like myself with the inattentive ADHD where that's not an issue for me. it's a horrible description for the condition.
Jessica (16:51)It is a horrible description.
it just feeds into all of those issues we all seem to have as a community trying to decide, is this us? Is this not us? we make these excuses, but I don't do this and I don't do that. It's so funny. The people who don't have ADHD are like, well, doesn't everybody have ADHD? And the people with ADHD are like,
Well, I must not have ADHD because I don't do this, this and this.
Jeannine Thill (17:15)Yeah, yeah.
Or yeah, or yeah, I could send them. Yeah, some days I'm really good at adulting. So obviously I can do it. when I'm not doing it, must be doing not be doing it because I'm have some character flaw or moral deficit or something. ⁓
Jessica (17:19)conundrum.
right? And
that moral deficit feeling, many people will find that as children with ADHD, the child was way more serious than they needed to be and way more adult than they needed to be. And then once they become into adulthood, we suddenly regress and our sense of humor is just not funny anymore because, know, it's too
Jeannine Thill (17:44)You
Jessica (17:52)childlike and we get into cosplay and we like to watch cartoons and we you know we love all of these past things and you know we can just go on and on and on
Jeannine Thill (18:02)yesterday I paid a bill that I need to pay and I paid it on time and I was like so excited like I want to tell somebody and I was like okay well that's really embarrassing because if you told other people like I'm a middle-aged woman I paid my bill on time that just sounds stuff people would do without even thinking about it so I should have. I got every single thing I came in on.
Jessica (18:20)You should have called I would have told you or at least texted I would have been like
Jeannine Thill (18:26)I should have. I got every single thing I came in on.
Jessica (18:26)have told you or at least texted I would have been like
Jeannine Thill (18:30)Directed or you know automatic pay, but there's a couple that aren't and I was like, I remembered to do it and I just felt so growing up ⁓
Jessica (18:38)Next,
I felt like I was an adult way, way younger than I should have been. And it's, one of those things that, you know, I don't think a lot of people realize. And maybe that's something good to throw out there to our audience as well. If people are telling you, your child is so adult, your child is just an old soul.
Jeannine Thill (18:54)Yeah.
Jessica (18:57)Your child is so well behaved, right? Once they hit like that, you know, seven and up age, so well behaved. they set so still. They set so quiet. Heads up, that's not normal.
(01:46):
Jeannine Thill (19:04)Yeah.
Yeah.
it's because by then kids have figured out that somehow there's something different and it just puts you on hyper alert. I think you become much more in tuned with what's going on around you, what people around you are doing to a point where other kids just aren't, they don't pay attention to all that stuff, right? Versus
Jessica (19:16)It is.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jeannine Thill (19:32)as a kid having to be that serious is sometimes I think there are neurotypical adults who don't put that much thought into situations, what's going on, what people are doing, just paying that close of attention, which takes fucking lot amount of energy, first of all.
Jessica (19:35)Mm-hmm.
It takes a ton, a ton of energy and it's exhausting.
Jeannine Thill (19:54)But
there's a lot of kids who have learned that as an early age. They know how they're supposed to be and they have to work so hard on being how they're supposed to be because it might go against their natural way of being or wiring, which leads to a very serious, intense adultish kid.
Jessica (19:59)They do.
Exactly. No,
that's 1000 % true.
Jeannine Thill (20:17)They're not worried
Jessica (20:18)And I am sure people will come in the comments and say, so if my kid acts good, that means they have ADHD. No, no. We're talking about extremes.
ADHD, neuro diverse people, it's about extremes. And when I say extremes, I don't mean extreme in the fact of them coming at other people or things like that. When I say extremes, I mean the extreme amount of energy it takes for them to behave in that way. The extreme amount of times someone might lose their phone. The extreme amount of times someone pays a bill late. The extreme amount of time...
that we feel we aren't measuring up to what are supposed to be simple tasks and we make the assumptions that it is our fault. It is our fault. It is on us because we are terrible people. We are lazy people. people will say, well, yeah, it is your fault because you're making your own actions. Yes. But when you know you have ADHD,
you can start to begin to understand your brain and how your brain works. then it comes down to not some fricking life hack, but learning to understand your limitations, learning to understand that you don't have to do things the exact same way everybody else does, because it doesn't work for you.
Jeannine Thill (21:25)Right.
Jessica (21:32)I think one of the best books I ever read that was a good example of that of neurodiverse people. And it wasn't meant for neurodiverse people, a neurodiverse person who keeps trying to do the same thing the same way over and over as an allistic would, which is how to clean house while drowning.
(02:07):
Jeannine Thill (21:48)yeah, yeah, it's a good book.
Jessica (21:50)It's
a short book. It is a lot of common sense, but when somebody else says it to you, you feel comfortable with it. You feel better about it because you see a reflection of yourself and that's what you're trying to find. You're trying to find a reflection of yourself to know that you aren't the end all be all of horrible things.
Jeannine Thill (22:04)Yeah.
just having someone else say to you what you've experienced. it's someone putting words to what you've always felt. And that's always so shocking. That's exactly what it feels like for me. Or that's exactly what's going on inside of me. Or that's exactly how I have been experiencing life. And I just have never been able to put the words to it.
Jessica (22:18)Exactly.
Right.
Right?
Jeannine Thill (22:30)The more you can read about or have a community that can help you become more become more comfortable, you learn that this is how my brain is wired and help me figure out what's the best way I can work with it. Because I'm not able to work the same way that 95 % of the rest of the people do, you probably spent your entire life trying to do it their way.
it's hasn't worked and it's just made the situation worse,
Jessica (22:54)Right.
I'm going to butcher this name, but Marianne Shambari, S-C-H-E-M-B-A-R-I. She had written a book called A Little Less Broken, which is actually an autism book. we've discussed, know, I am ADHD. I have both diagnosis. she had said, we are desperate to see ourselves reflected somewhere other than in our own minds. And I think that that is so
heartbreakingly accurate for the neurodiverse community as a whole. Especially as you get older. Once you start reaching past that perimenopause phase, you know, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but for women with ADHD who are 35 and older, it is a scary place to be to not be diagnosed. It's a scary place to be even if you are diagnosed and
you can't find the support that you need. I think that's why it pisses me off so bad when I hear people say, doesn't everybody have a little bit of ADHD? It's like, no, no. If everyone had a little bit of ADHD, you and I would be able to move through our days with no problems at all. You and I wouldn't be worried about, we going to remember to pay a bill? You and I wouldn't be worried about how much eye contact we're making with another person.
we wouldn't be worried about, we going to feel good enough to go out and do these tasks? X, Y, Z, Because everybody else will be dealing with the same shit as we are. that would mean the world would work for us. And it doesn't.
Jeannine Thill (24:22)The system would be built to work with us, not against us, which is how it feels a lot of times, right? Like it just feels like we're moving around in a world that's just not, not made for us, not meant for us. And it's exhausting constantly trying to fit in or maneuver your way through it, figure out how to make it work. And I think too, you mentioned like 35, I think there does get to be a point where
Jessica (24:28)Exactly.
It is.
Exactly.
Jeannine Thill (24:50)I think especially when you become a mom too, You're definitely supposed to be the adult, You're supposed to have all the answers. You're supposed to have your act together. You're supposed to be the one who's teaching your child responsibility and all these things, but yet, speaking for myself, you know, can't be on time to save my life or can't remember to do certain things, sign your kid's permission slip. All of these things that...
society judges us for frankly, If you're a good mom, if you can remember to do all these things for your kid. And if you can't, you've got, I remember reading a story about a woman who, she was a professor, she was a playwright. I mean, just, you would look on the outside and just think what a accomplished, intelligent, successful, woman. And her shame was, she said,
(02:28):
Jessica (25:16)Exactly.
Jeannine Thill (25:31)I couldn't be on time for things and I could never figure out what to wear. You know, like the fact that she could do all these really complicated things at work, but picking out an outfit literally just, stopped her in her tracks. And she's like, you can't tell people that, You can't say really, because every morning I almost want to break down crying because I can't figure out to wear, but yet, I've just been nominated for a Nobel prize.
it wasn't until she had a diagnosis, she started figuring things out. She's like, no. Basically, her closet's just one color. So it's really easy to match things. But you can imagine just that shame. Everyone is telling you how wonderful and great successful you are. And in the back of your mind, you're thinking, but I can't do these basic things.
Jessica (26:12)we're so used to masking. for those in our community who do mask, in many ways it is a privilege. Not everyone can mask. But for those who do mask, it is, exhausting. it takes a ton of energy to do, but it also...
I think kind of drives home that feeling of imposter syndrome. Why we feel like we're not a hundred percent real because you're not seeing us. You're seeing a reflection of you. I am different for every person that I am in front of while I used to be, especially in my twenties and thirties, I would, kind of match that energy in the room. And see, that's one of those other fun memes, you know,
Jeannine Thill (26:37)Great.
Jessica (26:52)Don't match the energy in the room. Raise the energy in the room to where you're at. There are people who can do that, but there are people who are extremely empathetic who can come in and understand all your little microaggressions and all of the, feelings and emotions that are rolling off of everybody in the room and the extreme need to not only fit in, but fix everything.
Jeannine Thill (26:57)Mow.
Jessica (27:16)all at once. these standards, these self-help books that we tend to gravitate to as a group, They're written to the allistic community
Jessica (27:25)coming back to when someone says everyone has it can't be annoying and frustrating. It can be hearseful. You can feel dismissive about it. Some people it really pisses off other people. They're like, meh, they're just uneducated. They don't know My perspective and it has changed over the years is that
It is.
It's not okay for me. a lot of times, I will say that doesn't work for me or no, that's not how I feel. That is what I choose to do about
Jeannine Thill (27:50)Yeah.
for me, it's the situation. is it worth saying something? Do I want to deal with it? And sadly, it could be people who are very close to me,
Jessica (27:57)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (28:03)I might just roll my eyes and move on and just not feel like it's worth the time, worth the energy, which actually makes me really sad to say. However, at some point there's a little self preservation. If you don't feel like you're going to get the support from somebody or the understanding, or they're not interested in learning more. I really think it is a personal decision.
Jessica (28:15)Mm-hmm.
it's a very personal decision. I find it extremely accurate for you to say, you know, when you're telling someone that you can see they don't have an interest in learning, aren't open to learning about it. They aren't open to listening to a different opinion about it. They've already made up their mind and there's not going to be any additional information that will come to them at that time.
Jeannine Thill (28:40)Exactly.
Jessica (28:46)You reach a certain age, you have to, learn self preservation. You have to learn energy preservation.
all of that at the end of the day, that affects your health and it affects your body, your brain and everything else in between.
(02:49):
Jeannine Thill (29:00)But if it's a person in your life that means a lot to you,
What can you do? we were thinking about ways that you can approach it. some ideas that you can relate to, just some ways that you might want to respond.
Jessica (29:10)I do realize I've been on a bit of a soapbox and how I choose to approach it, right? I do want to walk back and say that, you know, everyone has a different way of doing it and they have their own reasons for the way that they approach it.
There's definitely more people talking about ADHD Awareness is growing, it's a neurological condition that affects motivation, memory, focus, time management, emotional regulation. It's, it's so much more. this is also a good opportunity for people who you're closer with,
who you feel safe with to explain to them how ADHD shows up for you. that's extremely important that you don't exactly have to educate people about ADHD. You don't need to know the history. You don't need to know all the science behind it. But rather than saying, ⁓ it's my ADHD, take the time for the people in your life
that will listen and that you feel comfortable with to really explain to them how your ADHD shows up, how it affects you, then they will realize how it's affecting them as well.
Jeannine Thill (30:08)Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannine Thill (30:14)I you and I have talked about is like my lack of wanting to say much. And we'll talk about that I think in another episode. I think mine would be I'm probably going to be the one that doesn't really say much. it might be something maybe a little dismissive
I would probably just leave it as you know what, it's a lot more complicated than you realize.
Maybe if I saw some potential interest on their side that they wanted to know more, maybe I would share more and maybe I would just leave it at that. Because too, I probably my emotional dysregulation would be off the charts and I'd be really pissed that they made such a flippant comment about ADHD.
Jessica (30:50)I find that to be a very honest perspective and a very honest idea of how the situation would play out. it's not everyone's responsibility to rally for the cause, And I don't even consider what my reaction would be as, stepping up to the cause.
I think that if you and I were sitting next to each other and your family member said something to the effect of, everybody has ADHD, don't you know? Or something flippant and you just said, well, yeah. And left it at that. I would be completely comfortable in keeping my mouth shut. And I would be completely comfortable in being supportive and holding space for you knowing that that's not something you were comfortable with.
Jeannine Thill (31:30)Yeah.
Jessica (31:32)That is one of those things that we talk about when we talk about community that's so important. for everyone who's listening to this and for everyone who is trying to put this together and decide how they want to approach things and how outspoken they want to be, you have to remember everybody's going to have a different path. Everybody's going to have a different opinion not only a different opinion, but a different level of opinion, a different level of intensity.
for all of those different topics that touch the neurodiverse community. that is why it's so important for all of us to be respectful of each other and not dump on someone because they don't want to, put out their diagnosis or they don't want to argue with other people or they don't have one cause or one effect that
Jeannine Thill (32:11)Yeah.
Jessica (32:18)30 % of the ADHD community experiences It doesn't mean you don't have ADHD. It doesn't mean that you're not loved and you're not wanted in this community. It means that again, we so need to see the reflection of ourselves and others outside of our own mind. And that is what's going to make our entire community stronger
Jeannine Thill (32:37)you've met a person with ADHD, you've met one person with ADHD or something to that. Otherwise, everybody's going to look different. Everyone presents differently. I do think one of the things, and I have tried to do this more in a
Jessica (32:43)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (32:50)lot of things, especially if feel like something's kind of started to, you know, I can feel my emotions rising is just to ask somebody, what makes you say that?
I think it's getting them to reflect on why did they say that? Did they think they were being funny? Did they just say it and they weren't even thinking about it? sometimes it'll take the pressure off of me of feeling like, oh, I've got to come up with a response, I've got to be the one that says something. just to get them to reflect on, what makes you say that? then see where they're coming from. Because it might be a shocker, but sometimes I misjudge where people are coming from. I know it's shocking that I would do that,
(03:10):
Jessica (33:12)Right.
Jeannine Thill (33:24)Occasionally, I know. me. Occasionally, guess wrong. And so it does help if you can kind of get back to, you know, what's behind that? What's making them say that? you. Gosh darn it, I'm not judgmental. Everyone else is judgmental. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. If everyone else wasn't so judgmental, I wouldn't have to be.
Jessica (33:35)I might be sitting next to you, kettle.
I right? What the hell? We all know, man.
the thing is in our diverse community, we are judgy. How about, I won't say we are judgy. I will say I am one judgy ass bitch and I have been my entire life. it's one of those things that I have to wrangle in. And, but again, that's what we're working on, right? Because that's what we're trying to reduce in our community. And Janine, it's an excellent point, saying what would make you say that, or did you mean to say that?
Jeannine Thill (33:48)I know.
I it's hard to go.
Yeah. Yeah.
Get them to say more.
Jessica (34:09)before you get too pissed, get them to say more. And when they do say more, make sure to stop and listen. Don't just fill in the words that you have already heard in your head that you've played out in 50 other conversations. That is important.
Jeannine Thill (34:14)started.
but I would be too busy counting
to 10 in my head to control my emotions. So how am I supposed to listen to what they're saying? I just did it to buy time. So much fun.
Jessica (34:24)Right?
When we say not everyone has ADHD, it's not about gatekeeping. It's about clarity.
It's important that people understand the symptoms of ADHD and its various presentations.
Jeannine Thill (34:37)we know nobody's ADHD is the same. And if we allow others to treat ADHD just like it's a trendy way to say, I'm forgetful, people miss what people with ADHD are actually going through and how deeply it can affect their lives.
Jessica (34:51)And I will say though we are definitely a group of people who prefer to laugh to keep from crying, there are moments when we have to stop and be a little bit serious, not angry, just serious to help people understand that their comments might be hurtful to people they don't even realize are walking around with diagnosis.
Jeannine Thill (35:04)Yeah.
thanks for hanging out with us today. If this episode made you think or smile or not along, we'd love it if you shared it with a friend
I don't know, we need something. Do you know what I mean? You know, like how people always have the last thing that they always say.
(03:31):
Jessica (35:24)but.
I still like saying that was beautiful Janine.
Jeannine Thill (35:30)Well, we can end them all like that. That'd be awesome. I like that. There you
go. And then people could, we could have a contest and people could win you recording saying their name.
Jessica (00:00)Welcome back to Angry on the Inside, a podcast for women who've been late diagnosed with ADHD. I'm Jessica from Alternative Path Coaching, your co-host and fellow late diagnosed woman.
(00:01):
Jeannine Thill (00:09)I'm Janine Thill, founder of Everyday Greatness Coaching. we're so glad you're here with us today. today's topic is something you've probably heard a lot.
does everyone have ADHD these days
Jessica (00:21)Short answer, no. Long answer, well, that's what we're gonna talk about. while a lot of people relate to ADHD traits and ADHD traits are relatable to everyone, that doesn't mean everyone has it. understanding the difference will make a huge impact on your life.
Jeannine Thill (00:36)let's start by digging into this idea that everyone has ADHD. I think with a significant increase in ADHD diagnosis over the past decade, particularly among adults, there is definitely more awareness and discussion, which is good.
Jessica (00:50)Social media is definitely added to the conversation and ADHD related content is everywhere with people sharing their symptoms, coping strategies, personal experiences. I think that it's important to realize when we start to look into social media and we are trying to decide what's going on with us, do we have ADHD? Are we neurodiverse? These types of things.
we almost become inundated due to the algorithms with anything you can think of about ADHD. And
Jeannine AI (01:14)We are left trying to figure out what's real and what isn't.
Jessica (01:17)based on a disorder that is a spectrum in and of itself.
Jeannine Thill (01:21)Yes And I'm laughing at the algorithm because I think it tells you my experience with TikTok. I signed on, tried to fake the information, told him I was somebody else and within, I swear not, within five minutes, half my feed was ADHD. Still don't know how it figured that one out, but it did. But all this increased visibility is great at educating people and definitely starting that conversation around neurodiversity, is desperately needed.
Jessica (01:44)The issue is, is that it does lead to some misunderstandings and some skepticism with people questioning whether ADHD is being overdiagnosed or if it's just trendy to identify with these symptoms. it's caused me to feel some real anger on the topic. It, it does kind of get my hackles up.
Jeannine Thill (02:03)Everyone spaces out now and then. We've all had those moments where you open the fridge and forget what you're looking for, or your mid-sentence and your brain just kind of forgets what it was wanting to say. But when neurotypical people complain that they're so ADHD, this perpetuates
Jessica & Jeannine AI (02:16)the
Jeannine Thill (02:16)stereotype about what
ADHD is,
Jessica (02:19)Yes. And if you're unsure, we are here to tell you that ADHD is much more than being distracted or unable to sit still. You know, it's a neurodevelopmental condition. It does clinically effect your prefrontal cortex
It affects how the brain manages focus, motivation, planning, emotions, you know, all the behind the scenes stuff that keeps your day moving.
Jeannine Thill (02:43)someone with ADHD doesn't just miss a deadline now and then. We know that.
It can be a constant struggle with time blindness, emotional dysregulation, task switching, forgetfulness, or just getting started in the first place, even when we want to.
Jessica (02:56)It's a case of ADHD being persistent. It's not just a bad week. Most people feel unfocused when they're stressed or they're exhausted. And that's totally normal. But ADHD isn't just about feeling scattered when life gets chaotic. It's something that shows up everywhere. And when I say everywhere, mean everywhere all the time. So it is school, work, relationships, and it usually starts in childhood and it doesn't just
pop up and adulthood out of nowhere. You know, it can ebb and flow over time, but I think this is where those with ADHD start to feel the guilt or the imposter syndrome or the worry that they may not have ADHD because yes, everybody does get excited. Everybody does lose their keys. And you know, it, it makes me think of, and we were talking about this, the quote, which is, you know, was it a bad day or was it a
bad five minutes that you milked all day. part of me wants to say, well, no, I'm, I'm not some fucking milkmaid and I'm not here whining and I'm not here, you know, being pissy because I had a five minutes that didn't work out in my day. And that's supposedly that's my choice. Cause I'm here to tell you, it's not a choice. I didn't have a bad five minutes. had a rough 40 years.
(00:22):
Jeannine Thill (04:10)thinks that, yeah.
Jessica (04:13)where my, you know, my nervous system was pretty much annihilated and my brain didn't produce the chemicals that it needed to for me to be functional at a level that people think I need to be. Yet I was very intelligent. I was very honest. I was very considerate. I was empathetic to the point that I would make myself physically sick worrying about other people. But yet everything we see online,
we connotate that that's the opposite, Happiness is a choice. That is a load of shit And I, and I do believe that I really do. It is not a choice sometimes. Yes. Can we as late diagnosed ADHD women search out therapy and work on ourselves, work on our autonomic nervous systems, do all these things? Yes, we can. But there are parts of our brain and parts of our
Jeannine Thill (04:41)Right.
Jessica (05:03)autonomic nervous system that we cannot fix, that we cannot make better. did that five minutes make my day shitty? Yes, it did. But it also set off a long chain of events to make me feel like I can't function for the day. So I am not milking it. I am trying to function and it may have only been a bad five minutes.
Jeannine Thill (05:05)Yeah.
Yeah.
Jessica (05:26)but it's backed up by a shitty 40 years of ADHD and not understanding what was going on with me.
Jeannine Thill (05:29)Yeah.
I'll remember not to use toxic positivity on you. I will remember that. ⁓ and don't try using that shit on me either, please. I think the thing about the ebb and the flow is so, important for people to really understand. think even those with ADHD because
Jessica (05:38)Appreciate you.
Hahaha!
Jeannine Thill (05:54)It is that ebb and flow, if you're right. Maybe one day you've had it where you feel great, everything's good. Other days, I don't know, it either starts off bad or you wake up and just suddenly nothing is, nothing's clicking. And it could be because something did just derail you early in the morning, or you had that thing that happened and you just couldn't recover from it. I think that's really hard for people. who don't have ADHD to understand.
But I think it's hard for people with ADHD to understand that that could be what's happening to them. And instead they start beating themselves up, right? And they hear this like, just get over it, pull yourselves up by the bootstraps, brush off, just change your attitude, everything will be better. that's just not how it works. these are issues that we, late diagnosed women like you and me, have been dealing with.
Jessica (06:22)Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Jeannine Thill (06:40)we are carrying that weight with us wherever we go and trying to work through all those misunderstandings of who we are, what ADHD is, you know, and that sometimes we did make it through parts of our lives just fine, I never got in trouble at school. I was a B student, I wasn't the, seven-year-old boy running around disrupting class. I was a seven-year-old girl in the back of class.
getting lost in what my teacher was saying, realizing after three sentences, I had no idea what she was saying or no idea what we're supposed to be doing on this project and too embarrassed or too ashamed to ask. But from the outside world, I looked like everything was fine. And that kind of made me think, well then obviously it's me, right? It's fine. I'm not being disruptive. I'd get the good marks outside of didn't apply yourself enough, but I wasn't disruptive.
Jessica (07:22)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (07:29)it isn't just a phase. I think the fact that ebbs and flows, some phases are stronger than others maybe, but it's not just a phase.
Jessica (07:37)Janine, I like that you explain it as carrying weight because it really, that is what it is. And it's carrying a burden. you know, I know that everybody wants to be positive and talk about how this is my superpower in many ways that is true. These are things that allow us, you know, our coping skills, our abilities through ADHD allow us to push through and do things that many people can't.
(00:43):
But there's a huge but, in that It is a burden on our nervous systems. our brain. on our energy, our health. they're barely scraping the surface as to figuring out how all of these things connect
Jeannine Thill (08:13)Yeah.
Jessica (08:14)it's, it's scary. when we talk about phases, I think it's important to point out, especially to groups of people, if you're tuning in and listening, because you're wondering if you might have ADHD or you're new in the community and have just been recently diagnosed and things like that. Let's talk about our daughters and our nieces and our sisters and all of those
younger generations before us. Some of those phases that people put out, she's going through a phase. No, she's between the ages of 18 and 23 and suddenly it seems like her life is imploding and no one can figure out why. Because that's one of those big times where your hormones shift and your ADHD can go crazy. Especially for many girls who get out of school
Jeannine Thill (08:38)Yeah.
Jessica (09:00)who go from high school doing well and to college. And then suddenly they're bombing and everybody says, she had so much potential. what a waste such a smart girl. No, it's not a waste. are dismissing her behavior because we think she's being a pain in the ass when she's losing everything and is just stuck in this chaotic loop and doesn't understand why.
Jeannine Thill (09:10)Yeah.
bright.
Jessica (09:25)that's ADHD in your twenties. Let's talk about coming up on 30, cause that's the next one. You get into that 30, 35 range, you get into that like late thirties, early forties range. Whenever we start to have large hormone shifts or we have large life shifts, this is when it becomes horribly chaotic. these are the things that as late diagnosed women, we want to keep an eye out for our younger generations to recognize these are the times when it
Jeannine Thill (09:32)Yeah.
Jessica (09:53)was happening to us. These are the times when things were affecting us. Let's not allow it to happen to them. Did you have a daughter that was super talkative until she hit about 13?
and then everybody says, well you know she just doesn't want to be like her mom, she doesn't want to be like her mom, so she stopped talking to me for right now. Maybe, maybe that's possibility and that's an honest to god possibility, but maybe she's internalized because that's that age where we start to internalize that extra energy, that that thing that people associate with ADHD, That's when that time comes, that's when it hits our girls is in that puberty range.
Jeannine Thill (10:04)What?
Jessica (10:30)they have stopped talking to us because, they have other friends or they're doing other things or whatever. But if your daughter doesn't have a lot of friends or you don't feel like she's had someone to talk to and you're seeing these huge shifts, it's not just the hormones. It could be ADHD and ADHD runs in families, you know. So it's important just to educate ourselves,
this isn't the only topic, but it is important. It's important to educate ourselves and see that.
There are signs. Janine, you had said when you were young, you were a B student, you did good, You went through college, you didn't have much trouble in college, Had kids at a regular age, mid twenties-ish, correct? So.
Jeannine Thill (11:10)And I was always grateful
that I had twins because when my life fell apart, when I was trying to be a working mom, everyone was like, oh, what's so much harder for you because you have twins. And it was like, yeah, you know what, I'm sure it was, but oh, my ADHD that I did not know I had kicked in and it was, I was just barely, I was struggling to breathe every day. So again, you're right, it's that.
Jessica (11:31)Right.
Jeannine Thill (11:33)combination for women of you've got your hormones changing all the time, you also have these big life events like kids go off to college or even if they go from high school to You know living on their own and having a full-time job They've lost all that structure all that scaffolding that you had when you were at home, right in high school we don't realize how much structure is in a kid's life
it just doesn't seem like a thing and then when they go off to college or go off on their own They lose that and that's when you can start to see things starting to fall apart I did great through I mean I did okay through college getting my first real big job was a struggle And then once I had kids it was really really a struggle Because you just suddenly had
(01:04):
so much more that you had to handle, so much more you had to deal with. then you also had to be the perfect mom, let's not forget, it is something that is just, as you said, it's constantly changing. It's the ebb and the flow. And I think that adds some confusion too, because you can see times where even, or you can see it in yourself, where you feel like, hey, I'm doing really well, and then something changes.
and suddenly you kind of feel like you're falling apart again. And everyone's looking at you wondering what's wrong with you, as are you at this point, if you don't know what's going on, looking at yourself thinking, what is wrong with me? Why can't I get my act together?
Jessica (12:46)I think it's important for our audience to know. And I wish if any of you ever got to meet Jeanine, she's just an amazing woman. She really is. She's just an amazing individual, period. She really is. She's intelligent and she's so multi-layered. But I can tell you that her experience in her younger years with ADHD is a 90 degree turn
from what my experience was. And yet I can tell you as a late diagnosed ADHD woman that Janine and I suffered in the same way. It's just the circumstances that were very different. that's why it's important to understand that when we are looking out at people, even though someone might seem like they have their shit together, or someone might seem like they are just a total shit show,
It doesn't mean that's actually what's going on for the person. And that is where, you know, that imposter syndrome can come into play for women with ADHD. For me, I could tell you from a young age, I cussed like a sailor. I was hypersexual. I was a straight A student.
Jeannine Thill (13:37)All
Definitely, yeah.
yeah.
Jessica (13:53)I had all of these things happening all at once and I was a good person. by my mid twenties, I honestly, I thought I was going crazy. And you have to understand too, we talk with women with ADHD, are targets for, or just neuro diverse women in general, our targets for abuse, abusive people, emotional abuse, things like that.
that comes in all different shapes and forms. we have to walk back that judgment and also stop with the ableist bullshit of saying, well, isn't everybody a little ADHD? No, everyone is not a little bit ADHD. And
Jeannine Thill (14:24)Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jeannine Thill (14:27)ADHD isn't a result of too much screen time or bad parenting or not trying hard enough. Nope, it is brain-based.
Jessica (14:34)ADHD is about the brain literally processing things differently, especially when it comes to motivations, focus, regulating emotions and impulses.
Jeannine Thill (14:44)Okay. Which is why this lack of attention is kind of obviously a misnomer because we know that people with ADHD can hyper focus on something that they love, but then totally hit a roadblock when it comes to something that they have to do. it's not laziness or lack of willpower. Again, it's neurological.
Jessica (15:01)Many in the neurodiverse community think that a huge part of the problem is the name, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, that it oversimplifies the condition and implies that it just makes it hard to focus or to sit still.
Jeannine Thill (15:13)I'm one of those. completely agree with that. I think the term attention deficit suggests that people with ADHD, as you said, simply just can't pay attention, which we know is not true. folks with ADHD can easily focus on something that's really interesting to them. You know, they can fall into hyper-focus where they can just lose themselves in something for, three, four hours days. At least
I definitely know that I can. the difficulty isn't lack of attention, it's in that ability to regulate the attention and directing it to tasks that are necessary. Maybe not fun, but definitely necessary and things that need to get done.
Jessica (15:48)not only does it not fully encompass the range of challenges associated with it, but the term deficit also fails to address the strengths associated with ADHD. we could do a whole podcast on that where we just all sit and try to think of new names to call ADHD, because really it would be that easy.
we can laugh and we can joke it off and we can, have some fun with these things. But the main idea, the main topic here is that no,
Everyone does not have ADHD. Yes, it is something that is very serious and very impactful. it's not just losing your keys or forgetting to, pick up the kids at the end of the day.
Jeannine Thill (16:24)Right.
(01:25):
It's a constant thing that's going on for you. I think too that the term disorder, it makes it sound like it's either something you have it or you don't. Some days are better, some days are worse. the term hyperactivity makes it sound like it's somebody who can't sit still or can't stop talking.
we know that there are folks like myself with the inattentive ADHD where that's not an issue for me. it's a horrible description for the condition.
Jessica (16:51)It is a horrible description.
it just feeds into all of those issues we all seem to have as a community trying to decide, is this us? Is this not us? we make these excuses, but I don't do this and I don't do that. It's so funny. The people who don't have ADHD are like, well, doesn't everybody have ADHD? And the people with ADHD are like,
Well, I must not have ADHD because I don't do this, this and this.
Jeannine Thill (17:15)Yeah, yeah.
Or yeah, or yeah, I could send them. Yeah, some days I'm really good at adulting. So obviously I can do it. when I'm not doing it, must be doing not be doing it because I'm have some character flaw or moral deficit or something. ⁓
Jessica (17:19)conundrum.
right? And
that moral deficit feeling, many people will find that as children with ADHD, the child was way more serious than they needed to be and way more adult than they needed to be. And then once they become into adulthood, we suddenly regress and our sense of humor is just not funny anymore because, know, it's too
Jeannine Thill (17:44)You
Jessica (17:52)childlike and we get into cosplay and we like to watch cartoons and we you know we love all of these past things and you know we can just go on and on and on
Jeannine Thill (18:02)yesterday I paid a bill that I need to pay and I paid it on time and I was like so excited like I want to tell somebody and I was like okay well that's really embarrassing because if you told other people like I'm a middle-aged woman I paid my bill on time that just sounds stuff people would do without even thinking about it so I should have. I got every single thing I came in on.
Jessica (18:20)You should have called I would have told you or at least texted I would have been like
Jeannine Thill (18:26)I should have. I got every single thing I came in on.
Jessica (18:26)have told you or at least texted I would have been like
Jeannine Thill (18:30)Directed or you know automatic pay, but there's a couple that aren't and I was like, I remembered to do it and I just felt so growing up ⁓
Jessica (18:38)Next,
I felt like I was an adult way, way younger than I should have been. And it's, one of those things that, you know, I don't think a lot of people realize. And maybe that's something good to throw out there to our audience as well. If people are telling you, your child is so adult, your child is just an old soul.
Jeannine Thill (18:54)Yeah.
Jessica (18:57)Your child is so well behaved, right? Once they hit like that, you know, seven and up age, so well behaved. they set so still. They set so quiet. Heads up, that's not normal.
(01:46):
Jeannine Thill (19:04)Yeah.
Yeah.
it's because by then kids have figured out that somehow there's something different and it just puts you on hyper alert. I think you become much more in tuned with what's going on around you, what people around you are doing to a point where other kids just aren't, they don't pay attention to all that stuff, right? Versus
Jessica (19:16)It is.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jeannine Thill (19:32)as a kid having to be that serious is sometimes I think there are neurotypical adults who don't put that much thought into situations, what's going on, what people are doing, just paying that close of attention, which takes fucking lot amount of energy, first of all.
Jessica (19:35)Mm-hmm.
It takes a ton, a ton of energy and it's exhausting.
Jeannine Thill (19:54)But
there's a lot of kids who have learned that as an early age. They know how they're supposed to be and they have to work so hard on being how they're supposed to be because it might go against their natural way of being or wiring, which leads to a very serious, intense adultish kid.
Jessica (19:59)They do.
Exactly. No,
that's 1000 % true.
Jeannine Thill (20:17)They're not worried
Jessica (20:18)And I am sure people will come in the comments and say, so if my kid acts good, that means they have ADHD. No, no. We're talking about extremes.
ADHD, neuro diverse people, it's about extremes. And when I say extremes, I don't mean extreme in the fact of them coming at other people or things like that. When I say extremes, I mean the extreme amount of energy it takes for them to behave in that way. The extreme amount of times someone might lose their phone. The extreme amount of times someone pays a bill late. The extreme amount of time...
that we feel we aren't measuring up to what are supposed to be simple tasks and we make the assumptions that it is our fault. It is our fault. It is on us because we are terrible people. We are lazy people. people will say, well, yeah, it is your fault because you're making your own actions. Yes. But when you know you have ADHD,
you can start to begin to understand your brain and how your brain works. then it comes down to not some fricking life hack, but learning to understand your limitations, learning to understand that you don't have to do things the exact same way everybody else does, because it doesn't work for you.
Jeannine Thill (21:25)Right.
Jessica (21:32)I think one of the best books I ever read that was a good example of that of neurodiverse people. And it wasn't meant for neurodiverse people, a neurodiverse person who keeps trying to do the same thing the same way over and over as an allistic would, which is how to clean house while drowning.
(02:07):
Jeannine Thill (21:48)yeah, yeah, it's a good book.
Jessica (21:50)It's
a short book. It is a lot of common sense, but when somebody else says it to you, you feel comfortable with it. You feel better about it because you see a reflection of yourself and that's what you're trying to find. You're trying to find a reflection of yourself to know that you aren't the end all be all of horrible things.
Jeannine Thill (22:04)Yeah.
just having someone else say to you what you've experienced. it's someone putting words to what you've always felt. And that's always so shocking. That's exactly what it feels like for me. Or that's exactly what's going on inside of me. Or that's exactly how I have been experiencing life. And I just have never been able to put the words to it.
Jessica (22:18)Exactly.
Right.
Right?
Jeannine Thill (22:30)The more you can read about or have a community that can help you become more become more comfortable, you learn that this is how my brain is wired and help me figure out what's the best way I can work with it. Because I'm not able to work the same way that 95 % of the rest of the people do, you probably spent your entire life trying to do it their way.
it's hasn't worked and it's just made the situation worse,
Jessica (22:54)Right.
I'm going to butcher this name, but Marianne Shambari, S-C-H-E-M-B-A-R-I. She had written a book called A Little Less Broken, which is actually an autism book. we've discussed, know, I am ADHD. I have both diagnosis. she had said, we are desperate to see ourselves reflected somewhere other than in our own minds. And I think that that is so
heartbreakingly accurate for the neurodiverse community as a whole. Especially as you get older. Once you start reaching past that perimenopause phase, you know, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but for women with ADHD who are 35 and older, it is a scary place to be to not be diagnosed. It's a scary place to be even if you are diagnosed and
you can't find the support that you need. I think that's why it pisses me off so bad when I hear people say, doesn't everybody have a little bit of ADHD? It's like, no, no. If everyone had a little bit of ADHD, you and I would be able to move through our days with no problems at all. You and I wouldn't be worried about, we going to remember to pay a bill? You and I wouldn't be worried about how much eye contact we're making with another person.
we wouldn't be worried about, we going to feel good enough to go out and do these tasks? X, Y, Z, Because everybody else will be dealing with the same shit as we are. that would mean the world would work for us. And it doesn't.
Jeannine Thill (24:22)The system would be built to work with us, not against us, which is how it feels a lot of times, right? Like it just feels like we're moving around in a world that's just not, not made for us, not meant for us. And it's exhausting constantly trying to fit in or maneuver your way through it, figure out how to make it work. And I think too, you mentioned like 35, I think there does get to be a point where
Jessica (24:28)Exactly.
It is.
Exactly.
Jeannine Thill (24:50)I think especially when you become a mom too, You're definitely supposed to be the adult, You're supposed to have all the answers. You're supposed to have your act together. You're supposed to be the one who's teaching your child responsibility and all these things, but yet, speaking for myself, you know, can't be on time to save my life or can't remember to do certain things, sign your kid's permission slip. All of these things that...
society judges us for frankly, If you're a good mom, if you can remember to do all these things for your kid. And if you can't, you've got, I remember reading a story about a woman who, she was a professor, she was a playwright. I mean, just, you would look on the outside and just think what a accomplished, intelligent, successful, woman. And her shame was, she said,
(02:28):
Jessica (25:16)Exactly.
Jeannine Thill (25:31)I couldn't be on time for things and I could never figure out what to wear. You know, like the fact that she could do all these really complicated things at work, but picking out an outfit literally just, stopped her in her tracks. And she's like, you can't tell people that, You can't say really, because every morning I almost want to break down crying because I can't figure out to wear, but yet, I've just been nominated for a Nobel prize.
it wasn't until she had a diagnosis, she started figuring things out. She's like, no. Basically, her closet's just one color. So it's really easy to match things. But you can imagine just that shame. Everyone is telling you how wonderful and great successful you are. And in the back of your mind, you're thinking, but I can't do these basic things.
Jessica (26:12)we're so used to masking. for those in our community who do mask, in many ways it is a privilege. Not everyone can mask. But for those who do mask, it is, exhausting. it takes a ton of energy to do, but it also...
I think kind of drives home that feeling of imposter syndrome. Why we feel like we're not a hundred percent real because you're not seeing us. You're seeing a reflection of you. I am different for every person that I am in front of while I used to be, especially in my twenties and thirties, I would, kind of match that energy in the room. And see, that's one of those other fun memes, you know,
Jeannine Thill (26:37)Great.
Jessica (26:52)Don't match the energy in the room. Raise the energy in the room to where you're at. There are people who can do that, but there are people who are extremely empathetic who can come in and understand all your little microaggressions and all of the, feelings and emotions that are rolling off of everybody in the room and the extreme need to not only fit in, but fix everything.
Jeannine Thill (26:57)Mow.
Jessica (27:16)all at once. these standards, these self-help books that we tend to gravitate to as a group, They're written to the allistic community
Jessica (27:25)coming back to when someone says everyone has it can't be annoying and frustrating. It can be hearseful. You can feel dismissive about it. Some people it really pisses off other people. They're like, meh, they're just uneducated. They don't know My perspective and it has changed over the years is that
It is.
It's not okay for me. a lot of times, I will say that doesn't work for me or no, that's not how I feel. That is what I choose to do about
Jeannine Thill (27:50)Yeah.
for me, it's the situation. is it worth saying something? Do I want to deal with it? And sadly, it could be people who are very close to me,
Jessica (27:57)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (28:03)I might just roll my eyes and move on and just not feel like it's worth the time, worth the energy, which actually makes me really sad to say. However, at some point there's a little self preservation. If you don't feel like you're going to get the support from somebody or the understanding, or they're not interested in learning more. I really think it is a personal decision.
Jessica (28:15)Mm-hmm.
it's a very personal decision. I find it extremely accurate for you to say, you know, when you're telling someone that you can see they don't have an interest in learning, aren't open to learning about it. They aren't open to listening to a different opinion about it. They've already made up their mind and there's not going to be any additional information that will come to them at that time.
Jeannine Thill (28:40)Exactly.
Jessica (28:46)You reach a certain age, you have to, learn self preservation. You have to learn energy preservation.
all of that at the end of the day, that affects your health and it affects your body, your brain and everything else in between.
(02:49):
Jeannine Thill (29:00)But if it's a person in your life that means a lot to you,
What can you do? we were thinking about ways that you can approach it. some ideas that you can relate to, just some ways that you might want to respond.
Jessica (29:10)I do realize I've been on a bit of a soapbox and how I choose to approach it, right? I do want to walk back and say that, you know, everyone has a different way of doing it and they have their own reasons for the way that they approach it.
There's definitely more people talking about ADHD Awareness is growing, it's a neurological condition that affects motivation, memory, focus, time management, emotional regulation. It's, it's so much more. this is also a good opportunity for people who you're closer with,
who you feel safe with to explain to them how ADHD shows up for you. that's extremely important that you don't exactly have to educate people about ADHD. You don't need to know the history. You don't need to know all the science behind it. But rather than saying, ⁓ it's my ADHD, take the time for the people in your life
that will listen and that you feel comfortable with to really explain to them how your ADHD shows up, how it affects you, then they will realize how it's affecting them as well.
Jeannine Thill (30:08)Yeah. Yeah.
Jeannine Thill (30:14)I you and I have talked about is like my lack of wanting to say much. And we'll talk about that I think in another episode. I think mine would be I'm probably going to be the one that doesn't really say much. it might be something maybe a little dismissive
I would probably just leave it as you know what, it's a lot more complicated than you realize.
Maybe if I saw some potential interest on their side that they wanted to know more, maybe I would share more and maybe I would just leave it at that. Because too, I probably my emotional dysregulation would be off the charts and I'd be really pissed that they made such a flippant comment about ADHD.
Jessica (30:50)I find that to be a very honest perspective and a very honest idea of how the situation would play out. it's not everyone's responsibility to rally for the cause, And I don't even consider what my reaction would be as, stepping up to the cause.
I think that if you and I were sitting next to each other and your family member said something to the effect of, everybody has ADHD, don't you know? Or something flippant and you just said, well, yeah. And left it at that. I would be completely comfortable in keeping my mouth shut. And I would be completely comfortable in being supportive and holding space for you knowing that that's not something you were comfortable with.
Jeannine Thill (31:30)Yeah.
Jessica (31:32)That is one of those things that we talk about when we talk about community that's so important. for everyone who's listening to this and for everyone who is trying to put this together and decide how they want to approach things and how outspoken they want to be, you have to remember everybody's going to have a different path. Everybody's going to have a different opinion not only a different opinion, but a different level of opinion, a different level of intensity.
for all of those different topics that touch the neurodiverse community. that is why it's so important for all of us to be respectful of each other and not dump on someone because they don't want to, put out their diagnosis or they don't want to argue with other people or they don't have one cause or one effect that
Jeannine Thill (32:11)Yeah.
Jessica (32:18)30 % of the ADHD community experiences It doesn't mean you don't have ADHD. It doesn't mean that you're not loved and you're not wanted in this community. It means that again, we so need to see the reflection of ourselves and others outside of our own mind. And that is what's going to make our entire community stronger
Jeannine Thill (32:37)you've met a person with ADHD, you've met one person with ADHD or something to that. Otherwise, everybody's going to look different. Everyone presents differently. I do think one of the things, and I have tried to do this more in a
Jessica (32:43)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (32:50)lot of things, especially if feel like something's kind of started to, you know, I can feel my emotions rising is just to ask somebody, what makes you say that?
I think it's getting them to reflect on why did they say that? Did they think they were being funny? Did they just say it and they weren't even thinking about it? sometimes it'll take the pressure off of me of feeling like, oh, I've got to come up with a response, I've got to be the one that says something. just to get them to reflect on, what makes you say that? then see where they're coming from. Because it might be a shocker, but sometimes I misjudge where people are coming from. I know it's shocking that I would do that,
(03:10):
Jessica (33:12)Right.
Jeannine Thill (33:24)Occasionally, I know. me. Occasionally, guess wrong. And so it does help if you can kind of get back to, you know, what's behind that? What's making them say that? you. Gosh darn it, I'm not judgmental. Everyone else is judgmental. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. If everyone else wasn't so judgmental, I wouldn't have to be.
Jessica (33:35)I might be sitting next to you, kettle.
I right? What the hell? We all know, man.
the thing is in our diverse community, we are judgy. How about, I won't say we are judgy. I will say I am one judgy ass bitch and I have been my entire life. it's one of those things that I have to wrangle in. And, but again, that's what we're working on, right? Because that's what we're trying to reduce in our community. And Janine, it's an excellent point, saying what would make you say that, or did you mean to say that?
Jeannine Thill (33:48)I know.
I it's hard to go.
Yeah. Yeah.
Get them to say more.
Jessica (34:09)before you get too pissed, get them to say more. And when they do say more, make sure to stop and listen. Don't just fill in the words that you have already heard in your head that you've played out in 50 other conversations. That is important.
Jeannine Thill (34:14)started.
but I would be too busy counting
to 10 in my head to control my emotions. So how am I supposed to listen to what they're saying? I just did it to buy time. So much fun.
Jessica (34:24)Right?
When we say not everyone has ADHD, it's not about gatekeeping. It's about clarity.
It's important that people understand the symptoms of ADHD and its various presentations.
Jeannine Thill (34:37)we know nobody's ADHD is the same. And if we allow others to treat ADHD just like it's a trendy way to say, I'm forgetful, people miss what people with ADHD are actually going through and how deeply it can affect their lives.
Jessica (34:51)And I will say though we are definitely a group of people who prefer to laugh to keep from crying, there are moments when we have to stop and be a little bit serious, not angry, just serious to help people understand that their comments might be hurtful to people they don't even realize are walking around with diagnosis.
Jeannine Thill (35:04)Yeah.
thanks for hanging out with us today. If this episode made you think or smile or not along, we'd love it if you shared it with a friend
I don't know, we need something. Do you know what I mean? You know, like how people always have the last thing that they always say.
(03:31):
Jessica (35:24)but.
I still like saying that was beautiful Janine.
Jeannine Thill (35:30)Well, we can end them all like that. That'd be awesome. I like that. There you
go. And then people could, we could have a contest and people could win you recording saying their name.
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